1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. This episode contains 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:09,719 Speaker 1: discussion of sexual assault and drug abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 3 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: Trying to follow a specific memory to any kind of 4 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 2: conclusion is like driving toward a semi blinded by its headlights, 5 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 2: compelled by survival instincts to swerve away. No amount of 6 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 2: holding the steering wheel and place can keep you on 7 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 2: the road. 8 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 3: If part of you. 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: However small, wants to survive. Thankfully, there's a lot of 10 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 2: me that wants to survive. 11 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: That's Brittany Means, writer and editor, an author of the 12 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: recent memoir Hell If We Don't Change Our Ways. Britney's 13 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: is a story of extraordinary resilience and ultimately the triumph 14 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: of an indomitable spirit trapped an impossible circumstances. It's an 15 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: object lesson in the idea that as long as we're 16 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: alive and breathing, anything is possible. I'm Danny Shapiro, and 17 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: this is family Secrets, the secrets that are kept from us, 18 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we 19 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: keep from ourselves. The place that I always begin, and 20 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: in your case, it's particularly complicated and rich. I think 21 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: to talk about is. Tell me about the landscape of 22 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: your childhood and that could mean anything to you. Your 23 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: childhood had a lot of landscapes. 24 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, well landscape I think of Cornfield literally. But for 25 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 2: the most part, it was me and my mom. We 26 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 2: lived in a car a lot of the time. We 27 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 2: were always on the move, and we stayed if we 28 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 2: weren't in the car, we were in shelters or with 29 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 2: friends or with family. You know. We stayed all sorts 30 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: of different places, like a biker community, we stayed on 31 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 2: an ostrich farm, we stayed with distant family. In Mississippi, 32 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: there's always something new and people. 33 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 3: Who were new. 34 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: Did it feel like an adventure or what was that 35 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: like for you? 36 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 2: It didn't feel strange to me that we were moving 37 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: so much because that was what I knew. So I 38 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: didn't really think to ask like when are we stopping 39 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 2: or where are we going to stay? Because to me, 40 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 2: like being in the car and always being somewhere new, 41 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 2: it was just how things were, and the most important 42 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: thing to me was just that I was with my mom, 43 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: So I didn't I didn't really care too much about 44 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 2: the instability because it didn't feel strange and she was there, 45 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: My mom had me when she was nineteen, so she 46 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: was fairly young when she started parenthood. And my conception 47 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 2: was the result of a sexual assault. I think she 48 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 2: was just a very traumatized person from her upbringing and 49 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: from what had happened, and from being a single mother 50 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: and then being in an abusive relationship. And I'm aware 51 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: of all of those things now because I have a perspective. 52 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: But when I was a kid, she was like the 53 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 2: sun to me, and I loved her more than anything. 54 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: She was like the source of all warmth and happiness 55 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: and affirmation. You know. She could be very energetic and 56 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: verbally loving, and we would like go on trips and 57 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: go play laser tag and put putt and all these 58 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: fun things. And then the next day, or maybe even 59 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 2: later that same day, she would be like very emotionally 60 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: just regulated. She would sleep for days, she would scream, 61 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: she would have outbursts. So yeah, just in another way, 62 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 2: not a lot of stability. 63 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: How old were you when you knew that you were 64 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: the result of your mother having been raped? 65 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: I honestly don't really remember a time when I didn't 66 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,799 Speaker 2: know that. I wish I could remember the exact moment 67 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 2: and how I felt about it, but it feels like 68 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 2: something I just always knew. When I picture her, the 69 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 2: first image is you know how I saw her When 70 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: I was a kid. She had like brownish reddish, like 71 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: rusty brown hair, and it was always a little frizzy, 72 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: which is where I got it blue eyes. When I 73 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: was a kid, she had like a gap between her 74 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 2: two front teeth, and she ended up getting dentures later 75 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: in life, and I remember my uncle actually crying because 76 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 2: he was like, I loved the gap between her teeth. 77 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 2: It gave her a personality like fit her very well, 78 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 2: and she had a very pretty smile. She has like 79 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 2: dimples and eyes that are really bright. 80 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: One of the moves Brittany and her mom make is 81 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: precipitated by Mark, her mom's ex boyfriend at the time, 82 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: but now they're running away from him. They flee to 83 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: Britney's grandparents' home just off Indiana State Road sixty seven. 84 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: Britney's grandparents are Pentecostal, and life there is extremely different 85 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: from the life Britney is used to. 86 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 2: The main thing was the contrast. When we first got there, 87 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 2: my mom and I used to love going to horror movies, 88 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: we watched TV. We really loved like unsolved mysteries and 89 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 2: watching like the Rose Red series. And then we also 90 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 2: had no rules. We just kind of did whatever out 91 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 2: on the road. And when we were with my grandparents, 92 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 2: they were like, no TV because that's the sin. So 93 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: suddenly this huge thing that we shared together was gone 94 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 2: and I couldn't even really talk about it without. 95 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 3: Getting a speech. 96 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 2: And there were all these rules like about when we 97 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: could come and go and the things that we could 98 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 2: say and what we had to wear and cutting our hair. 99 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 2: And it was really hard at first because I was 100 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 2: so aware of the alternative to that, Like I knew 101 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 2: there was a world out there with like beautiful, delicious television, 102 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 2: and then there was this world where I only really 103 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 2: got to listen to Bible stories. 104 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: And the reason at that point that you were staying 105 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: with your grandparents was because your mom had pretty much 106 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: run out of gas. 107 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, we didn't have money, and my grandparents would send 108 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: money sometimes, but I think it was the situation was 109 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 2: that they were like, we're not sending any more money. 110 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 2: You need to come here and figure things out, and 111 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 2: so that's what we did. I think that was around 112 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 2: like kindergarten age. I have a really hard time pinning 113 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 2: down exact ages, just because we were moving so much, 114 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: and we went back to some places a lot at 115 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: different ages, and so sometimes if I'm comparing a story 116 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: with someone, I'll talk about a memory and they'll be like, oh, yeah, 117 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: you were like nine when that happened. And I'm so 118 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 2: shocked because I remember being very little in the same place, 119 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 2: and the memories that I think I remember happening at 120 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 2: one age happened at another. But I'm pretty sure when 121 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 2: we were living with my grandparents in the house by 122 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 2: the highway, it was some time. 123 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 3: Before I started school. 124 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 2: My earliest memories of going to church include just feeling well, one, 125 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: really aware of how my mom and I didn't fit in, 126 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 2: because you know, all the women were in like very 127 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 2: long jean skirts down to their ankles or like long dresses. 128 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: They all had very long hair, either hanging down their 129 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 2: back or piled up on their head, and the men 130 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: were in suits, and everyone was very clean and buttoned 131 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 2: up and smiling and calling each other brother and sister. 132 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 2: And my mom was wearing blue jeans and like a 133 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 2: T shirt and had makeup on, and her hair was 134 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 2: cut pretty short, and I was wearing the dress and 135 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: my grandma. 136 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 3: Gave me, but I just felt really out of place. 137 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 2: It felt like way too nice of a place for 138 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 2: us to be dressed the way we were, and I 139 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 2: was embarrassed, but I was also kind of irritated because 140 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: I didn't want to be there and I didn't have 141 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: this language then, but now I understand, like I just 142 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: didn't want to be. 143 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 3: Judged on terms that I didn't care about. And my grandma, I. 144 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 2: Remember people asking her like is she adopted about me? 145 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 2: And my grandma telling at least one of her friends like, no, 146 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 2: she's a rape baby, and you know, people telling my 147 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 2: mom like, I'm so glad you came back. 148 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 3: But also I could see the way they. 149 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 2: Were looking at her, and you know, her pants and 150 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 2: her hair and the makeup, and yeah, it was it 151 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 2: was just a lot to take in and try and 152 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 2: understand at a young age. 153 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have any memory of what it felt 154 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: like to hear your grandmother describe you that way? 155 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 2: I don't remember feeling any kind of emotion about it, 156 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 2: because I already knew the circumstances, So to me, it 157 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 2: was just a fact. 158 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 3: I didn't really have. 159 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 2: The concept that I should be insulted or embarrassed or 160 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: anything like that. So when we first got there, I 161 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 2: had this feeling like my mom and I were kind 162 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: of in cahoots and that we were both like, yeah, 163 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 2: this sucks, but we'll get through it. It didn't occur 164 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: to me that everyone else there knew her as someone 165 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: who used to be very involved in the church and 166 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 2: seeing in the and very you know, like godly and innocent. 167 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: I never met that version of her, so I didn't 168 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 2: know that that was something she would go back to. 169 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 3: And then she stood. 170 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 2: Up to give testimony and basically said she wanted to 171 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 2: come home, which to her meant like come back to 172 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: the church and feel that community that used to make 173 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 2: her feel safe and loved before so many things went wrong. 174 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 2: I think she just wanted to get back to that 175 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 2: and feel like all of the missteps that she had 176 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 2: taken and all the things that had happened to her 177 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 2: could be washed away. I imagine was an irresistible feeling. 178 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 2: And to me it was a shock because I was like, 179 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: what do you mean you're buying into this? I thought 180 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 2: we were gonna leave, and yeah, I just felt really 181 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 2: alone because I didn't have my partner in crime anymore, 182 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 2: and I also like I didn't connect with this church setting. 183 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 2: I didn't feel what it seemed like everyone else was feeling. 184 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 2: So I also had a lot of guilt like why 185 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 2: can't I go there with her? And again, just a 186 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 2: lot to try and implement into my way of thinking 187 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 2: as I was forming a sense of self well. 188 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: And also the message that God sees everything and knows 189 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: everything doesn't help. 190 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 3: With the guilt, yeah, exactly. 191 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: For a while, Brittany and her mother live with her grandparents. 192 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: Her mom has been saved and is accepted back into 193 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: the fold. It seems like life may continue to proceed 194 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: this way, a new Pentecostal life. But Mark, the ex 195 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: boyfriend they'd been running away from, he finds her. He 196 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: shows up at the house on Indiana State Road sixty seven, 197 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: and he takes her mother away. 198 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 2: This is something I didn't actually know about for a 199 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 2: long time. I learned when I was an adult and 200 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: my mom told me this story. He had found us, 201 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 2: and he showed up in the middle of the night 202 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 2: and he had a gun and he threatened to shoot 203 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 2: my mom if she didn't come with him. He basically 204 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 2: forced her to come with him, and they didn't take me. 205 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 2: I don't really know why, because I really wasn't aware 206 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 2: that all of this was going on. I just knew 207 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 2: that I woke up and my mom was gone, and 208 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 2: I was alone in this place I didn't want to be, 209 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: and didn't have the context for why any of that 210 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 2: happened for. 211 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 3: A long time. 212 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: I mean, it strikes me that your mom probably was 213 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: trying to be protective of you by not bringing you 214 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: in a situation where she's basically being abducted. Yeah, but 215 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: I imagine that to be a kid like so young 216 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: and to just wake up and your mom's gone and 217 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: you don't know why, and nobody's talking, nobody's really filling 218 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: in the blanks for you. 219 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 220 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: Brittany is left with her grandparents for a few months 221 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: before Mark and her mom come back for her. During 222 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: these months, she and her grandparents move from the little 223 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: house by the highway into a barn. 224 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 2: So the barn was an old carriage house. There were 225 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 2: horse stalls in it. It was an actual barn, had 226 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 2: a black wood sighting and these two big silhouettes of 227 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 2: rearing horses that were like bright white. So they stuck 228 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 2: out against the barn and my grandpa converted it into 229 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 2: He called it a mansion. It had thirteen bedrooms all together, 230 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 2: and even put up a sign at the end of 231 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 2: the driveway that was like, come see the thirteen bedroom mansion, 232 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 2: and then people would show up and be super confused. 233 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 2: It was like way out in the middle of the country, 234 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: like surrounded by cornfields on one side and woods on 235 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 2: the other. 236 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 3: And then inside the barn itself. 237 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 2: Like it had this really lush red carpet with all 238 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 2: kinds of vines and flowers on it. There was like 239 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: a giant chandelier when you came into the dining room 240 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 2: in front of this huge window, and it had these 241 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 2: octopus arms. 242 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:13,839 Speaker 3: That's how I always thought of it. 243 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 2: It looked like a giant octopus like holding a bunch 244 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 2: of little moons. And he put all kinds of furniture 245 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 2: imported from I want to say. 246 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 3: France, but yeah. 247 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 2: It was like there was so much nice, expensive stuff 248 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 2: in it. And then my grandpa really loved cutting corners, 249 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 2: so then in between these really beautiful elements would be 250 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 2: pretty cheap linoleum and Christmas trees from like big lots 251 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 2: that were on sale or. 252 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 3: Something, and missing arms. 253 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 2: It was a bizarre place in part because of how 254 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: beautiful and decadent, and the fact that it was converted 255 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 2: from a barn, and also that my grandparents were hoarders. 256 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 3: There was I mean, when we very first. 257 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: Got there, I didn't really think that that was going 258 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 2: on because everything was in boxes and it took forever 259 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 2: to unpack. So I just assumed that that's what it 260 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 2: was like when people moved. And then as I got older, 261 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 2: stuff accrued and this long, beautiful hallway was just so 262 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 2: full that you had to walk sideways to get through it. 263 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: So your brother been three and a half years younger 264 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: than you, Yeah, and was the product or relationship that 265 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: your mom had with someone other than Mark? Was his 266 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: father someone that you knew when your mother was with him? 267 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: What was the background of that. 268 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 3: It's basically my uncle's friend. 269 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 2: So you was just hanging out with all of them 270 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 2: all the time, and they were young, so they were 271 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: like why not, and their condom broke and they got 272 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 2: pregnant and the rest of Ben's history. 273 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: Right, So it wasn't the result of a serious relationship. 274 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 3: No, no, not at all. 275 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Ben comes and goes during Brittany's childhood. 276 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: He lives with his father some of the time and 277 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: other times he spends with Brittany and her mother wherever 278 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: they might be. Another on again, off again presence in 279 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: Brittany's childhood is Mark. He and Britney's mom get back together, 280 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: and Brittany even begins to think of him as her dad. 281 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: But then their lives slide into a very dark place 282 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: when Mark puts Brittany's mother to work as a stripper, 283 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: and while Brittany's mom is out doing this, Mark begins 284 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: to sexually abuse Brittany. In a grim parallel, Brittany and 285 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: her mom are both doing things with their bodies that 286 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: they don't want to be doing. It's a harrowing time, 287 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: and at a certain point, someone reports the family to 288 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 1: child protective Services. 289 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 2: I believe it was a family friend, is what they 290 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 2: guessed at the time, but I don't think we ever 291 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 2: really got exact confirmation. 292 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 3: You know, it could have been. 293 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 2: Someone out of school, It could have been someone near 294 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 2: one of the motels where we were staying. Really could 295 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 2: have been anybody. 296 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: So the thing that I was so struck by is 297 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: that your mom and Mark essentially coach you in terms 298 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: of what you should say to child protective services. So 299 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: that certainly implies that your mom knew that there were 300 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: things that you could say that would have you taken 301 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: away from her. 302 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, Mark knew exactly what they were going to ask 303 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 2: and anticipated how I could answer without sounding like I 304 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 2: had been coached. And I remember going through that coaching 305 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 2: and just being like, I don't. 306 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 3: Want to do this. I'm bored. 307 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 2: I want to watch TV because I you know, so 308 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 2: many awful things had been normalized. I wasn't thinking like 309 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,479 Speaker 2: this is going to keep me from getting help. I 310 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 2: was thinking like, I got to get the answers right 311 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 2: so that we can stop doing this boring thing. 312 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 3: And do something fun. 313 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: And you are at this point around how old. 314 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: I'm almost positive this is also before school. I might 315 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 2: have started kindergarten, but I was homeschooled for some of kindergarten, 316 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 2: so it's really hard to say. 317 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: You also try to tell other people and really bravely 318 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: try to talk to Mark's sister Dana, and she doesn't 319 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: believe you. No, she did not, So there's there's no 320 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: protection at that stage in your life. I mean, you try, 321 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,719 Speaker 1: and you I would imagine that would have felt like well, 322 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: and there's just no point trying because no one believes me. 323 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, like I remember the conversation pretty vividly, and her 324 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 2: telling me, like, you shouldn't make things up. And even 325 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 2: though I knew I wasn't making anything up, and if 326 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 2: people told me I was lying about something, when I 327 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 2: was a kid, I would get mad. If I knew 328 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 2: I wasn't lying about this thing, I wasn't mad. I 329 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 2: just felt immediate shame, like I had done something wrong. 330 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 2: And I didn't have this language then, But now I 331 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 2: think it was that I understood that it wasn't so 332 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 2: much that she thought I was lying, but that saying 333 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 2: it out loud to someone was somehow as bad as 334 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 2: a lie. 335 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 3: Now I understand. I think she just couldn't or didn't 336 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 3: want to believe it. 337 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 2: And it was easier to assume that, like a kid, 338 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 2: was making something up, because then you don't have to 339 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: do anything. 340 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 3: You can just scold the kid and walk away. 341 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 2: Whereas if she had believed me, her whole life would 342 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 2: have been upended and it would have led to a 343 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 2: lot of hard conversations. And that's not totally understandable, no problem, 344 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 2: just more that I can see how someone makes a 345 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 2: really bad decision. I can understand all of the even 346 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 2: subconscious things that are happening to lead to them doing 347 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 2: something that creates ripples for the rest of someone's life. 348 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: Along the way, there are people who reach out to help, 349 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: who try to intervene and offer sanctuary, including Britney's mother's brother, 350 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: her uncle John, but their situation is constantly too much 351 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: for friends or relatives to handle. Britney's mom and Mark 352 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: are on the outs again, so when Brittany is ten 353 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: and Ben is six, they moved back to the barn 354 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: with their grandparents. Brittany a door's Ben and Relish is 355 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 1: the time they get to spend together, but this time 356 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: there's nothing but fear and worry. 357 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 2: My brother and I were staying with my grandma. I 358 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 2: believe my mom was at a doctor's appointment, and he 359 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 2: went out to play and I was playing on my 360 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 2: game boy, and my grandma asked me to go check 361 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: on him, and instead of going outside, I just looked 362 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 2: out the window and I saw him playing. He really 363 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 2: liked building forts out of stuff, and my grandpa had 364 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 2: all kinds of materials from his business, so he was 365 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 2: building a fort. He had like a little plywood roof 366 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 2: on some saw horses, and then you know, I sat 367 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 2: back down and I remember my grandma sighing because I 368 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 2: was being lazy and she wanted me to go outside 369 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 2: and ask. But rather than tell me, like hey, I 370 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 2: wanted you to do, this was just. 371 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 3: Sighing so I would feel bad, which I did. 372 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 2: But then sometime later I had a friend who lived 373 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 2: in a little house at the end of the driveway, 374 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 2: and I went over to see her, and then when 375 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 2: I came back, he was gone. I assumed that he 376 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 2: was inside with my grandma, but when I got in, 377 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 2: she was panicked and she couldn't find him. 378 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 3: So we looked all over the barn. 379 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 2: We looked in the backyard, and again there were cornfields 380 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 2: on one side for miles and then woods on the 381 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 2: other side for miles. It was just very quickly, like 382 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 2: this horrifying thing, like did he get lost? Did someone 383 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 2: take him? And honestly I didn't have any reason to 384 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 2: think that he had been taken, but that's where my 385 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 2: brain went because when we were kids, I think, just 386 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 2: because things were so hectic, we were always hearing, you know, 387 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,360 Speaker 2: don't talk to strangers, don't get anyone's car, kids get 388 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 2: taken all the time, don't walk for me in the store, 389 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 2: And that always felt like someone taking you away. Whether 390 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 2: it was CPS or a stranger or the boogeyman, it 391 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 2: was like the worst thing that could happen, and so 392 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 2: my mind went to the worst thing, and I just 393 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 2: built this story in my head that someone had taken him, 394 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 2: and that's what happened. 395 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 3: And I eventually saw an. 396 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 2: Ambulance down by the highway and ran to it, and 397 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 2: he was in there, and the police took us to 398 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 2: the hospital, and my mom showed up, and they did 399 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 2: all kinds of tests on him, and he ended up 400 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 2: going back with his dad that night, and I didn't 401 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 2: see him. 402 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 3: Again for a while. 403 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 2: But what had happened was that a man who had 404 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 2: been kind of infamous in the town called the Reverend, 405 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 2: had sexually assaulted other young boys in the community, but 406 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 2: he hadn't ever gone to jail for it. He'd been 407 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 2: in treatment after committing arson. But he told these boys 408 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 2: that if they told anyone, he would kill their families, 409 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 2: and so of course they didn't want to testify against him. 410 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 2: And then he took my brother. 411 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 3: He threatened him with. 412 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 2: The same thing he assaulted him, and they ended up 413 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 2: finding him and he did end up going to prison. 414 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 3: It was a big shifting moment. 415 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 2: In our childhoods, because like things were already hard, but 416 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 2: then there was this huge evil event and then my 417 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 2: brother was gone, and then I also got moved away. 418 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: Where did you get moved to? I moved back with Mark, 419 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: so the barn was deemed not suitable for kids, so 420 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: you were moved back to Mark because that would be 421 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 1: more suitable. And where was your mother? 422 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 3: I really, I don't know. 423 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 2: That's also a time that I really have trouble tracking 424 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 2: because it was in a series of traumas. 425 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 3: It was like the big trauma. 426 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 2: I think a lot of older sisters understand this feeling 427 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 2: like it's it's your job to keep your little siblings safe. 428 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 2: And even if you punch them in the face sometimes 429 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 2: or force feed them soy sauce, which I did to 430 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 2: the end, you still always, when it comes down to it, 431 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 2: you think like you would do anything to protect them 432 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 2: from someone who wanted to hurt them. And it was 433 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 2: like I failed the ultimate test of being a big sister. 434 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 2: And then and then he was gone and I couldn't 435 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 2: even talk to him about it or apologize or make 436 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 2: sure that nothing else happened. And then I was in 437 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 2: this new place with Mark and Mark's new family, and 438 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 2: I didn't even really understand that that was upset for 439 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 2: myself being back with this person who had abused me, 440 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 2: because I was like completely distraught about Ben and it 441 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 2: felt like he had died and I would never talk. 442 00:25:58,240 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 3: To him again. 443 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: Her grandparents drive to Indianapolis to essentially to rescue you. 444 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: You know, it's so interesting about your story, Brittany, because 445 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: there's so much in it that is, you know, people 446 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: behaving in some of the most difficult ways that human 447 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: beings can. And also, I mean, your grandparents were not easy. 448 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: Would it be fair to say they were trying to 449 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: be protective of you? 450 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's exactly it. I think they were 451 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 2: really complicated people, and they didn't always know exactly what 452 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 2: would be the healthiest for a kid because of their 453 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 2: age and their backgrounds and their own traumas. But yeah, 454 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: when it came down to it, they really did want 455 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 2: to keep us safe. You know, my grandma had guilt 456 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 2: for a really long time, I think, honestly, probably until 457 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 2: she passed away about what happened with Ben because she 458 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 2: was watching us. But it's not like she could get 459 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 2: up and down the stairs to check on him. 460 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:58,199 Speaker 3: That's why she asked me. 461 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 2: And they never wanted any of the things that happened 462 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 2: to us to happen to us. 463 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 3: They loved us. 464 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: In a fractured and constantly shifting life, the Barn continues 465 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: to be a strange and gothic home base. Britney wanders far. 466 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: At one point she lives in a biker camp with 467 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: a boyfriend of her mom's, but inevitably she returns. Rural 468 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: Indiana isn't an easy place to be, not for a 469 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: brown girl surrounded by a landscape of whiteness. Nobody in 470 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: high school wants to be different, and so Brittany tries 471 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: to maintain the image of the white girl who at 472 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: the time she wants to be. She avoids the sun, 473 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: she dyes her hair, she tries to blend in. 474 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 3: Just a very small town. 475 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 2: And you know, it was the nineties and then early 476 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 2: two thousands, and yeah, I didn't have basically any exposure. 477 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 3: To people who looked like me. 478 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 2: You know, my mom had blue eyes, my brother had 479 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 2: blonde hair, blue eyes. A lot of my family they 480 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 2: were you know, blonde, blue eyes, pale. And I knew 481 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 2: on some level that I was different, and I understood 482 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 2: why at least the basics of why. But I was 483 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 2: kind of in denial. At a certain point. I was 484 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 2: embarrassed of how I looked, and I avoided the sun. 485 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 2: I saw a magazine in the store and I picked 486 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 2: it up and there were tips on how to lighten 487 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 2: your skin if you have dark spots, and translated that too, Okay, 488 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 2: I'm going to add lemon juice to my bath and 489 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 2: I would dunk my hair and bleach. 490 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 3: And the thing is, I'm biracial. My mom's white. 491 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 2: And it's not like I looked incredibly different, you know. 492 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 2: I just looked different enough that I was aware of 493 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 2: it and ashamed of it, and I really wanted. 494 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 3: To change it. 495 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 2: And you kids will find any reason to make fun 496 00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 2: of you if you're a little bit different at a 497 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 2: certain age. And yeah, I had kids who made fun 498 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 2: of me. I had the nickname. 499 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 3: Mexico, which is like, at least be creative. You know. 500 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 2: It was hard and isolating, but everything felt hard and isolating, 501 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 2: so it was like, why. 502 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 3: Not this too. 503 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: Eventually, Brittany does see Ben again. He resumes his rhythm 504 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: of going back and forths between his dad and mom, 505 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: but at some point he emphatically wants out. Brittany's sad 506 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: about it, but she understands why Ben wants to leave. 507 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: Their mother has become addicted to drugs. She's always used, 508 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: but it's not until now that her addiction really comes 509 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: to define her. When Ben says he wants to live 510 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: with his dad full time, their mother reacts with horror 511 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: and fury. At this point, young Brittany assumes the role 512 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: of the parent, the mature adult. She polices her mom, 513 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: even confronts her about her addiction. 514 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 2: She used through most of my child I wasn't really 515 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 2: aware of it, and it's hard to say how much 516 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 2: of her behavior can be attributed to drug use and 517 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 2: how much of it was you know, she was struggling 518 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 2: with her mental health and with emotional regulation, like my uncle. 519 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 2: I tried to explain it to me when I was 520 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 2: younger that my mom had an addiction. Other people had 521 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 2: tried talking to me about it, but I never wanted 522 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 2: to listen. I just wouldn't accept that, you know, she 523 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 2: could do anything wrong. And then when I was in 524 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 2: middle school, it started to become undeniable. 525 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 3: I don't know. 526 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 2: If it was just that I was more aware, or 527 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 2: more self possessed or that she was using something different, 528 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 2: or struggling more with how much she was using. May 529 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 2: have been a combination of all of those things. I 530 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 2: just know that I found some of her paraphernalia, and 531 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 2: I tried kind of her about it like one time, 532 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 2: and it basically broke the biggest rule, which is, like 533 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 2: it was never a spoken rule, but it was an 534 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 2: unspoken rule, which is, don't acknowledge this thing and don't 535 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 2: challenge me on it. Just love me back and go 536 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 2: with me wherever, and be okay when I'm not here. 537 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: To be okay when I'm not here turns out to 538 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: be a prescriptive sort of warning. When Brittany is a 539 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: freshman in high school, she and her mom move into 540 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: another little house by the highway, a property owned by 541 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: her grandfather. One day, her mom leaves without any indication 542 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: of how long she'll be gone or where she's going. 543 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: A week goes by, then another Britney is running out 544 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: of food. 545 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. I spent many years in denial about things and 546 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 2: just kind of avoiding the conversation. And then suddenly I 547 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 2: was alone in the house, waiting to see if she 548 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 2: would come back, and feeling like maybe she won't this time. 549 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 2: And maybe it's because I addressed things and it was 550 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 2: like being trapped in a bubble of actually acknowledging that 551 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 2: things were as bad as they were. 552 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: And that led you to call this guy named Clay. 553 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. 554 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 2: We had dated in middle school through the beginning of 555 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 2: my freshman year, and we broke up. He wanted to 556 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 2: date another girl. I was a kid, and I was devastated. 557 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 2: And then we stayed friends and we would talk on 558 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 2: the phone sometimes and it was usually just me feeling 559 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 2: really sad that we weren't still together, but happy that 560 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 2: he still talked to me. And so it was also 561 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 2: close to his family because we had dated for I 562 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 2: think a year. And then when my mom left, I 563 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 2: called him because it really know what else to do, 564 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 2: and I told him what was going on, and then 565 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 2: he told his mom, and his mom came and picked 566 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 2: me up and said that I could stay with them 567 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 2: until my mom came back. I was staying with them, 568 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 2: I want to say it was for two weeks, and 569 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 2: they realized that my mom had already been gone. 570 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 3: I told them it was a week. 571 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 2: I was trying to know Doll the edge a little 572 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 2: bit of the situation, but it had been two weeks 573 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 2: by the time I called them, and then it was 574 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 2: two weeks at their house and they were like, she's 575 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 2: been gone for almost a month. Does this happen often? 576 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 2: And the truth was that it did. She was never 577 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 2: gone for that long. She would leave for like a 578 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 2: few days sometimes and I might be alone, or I 579 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 2: would stay with someone else, or she would stay gone 580 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 2: for longer, maybe a few months if I was with 581 00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 2: my grandparents. But yeah, I told them that it was 582 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 2: it's fairly regular for her to leave, and so they 583 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 2: were like, well, that's not a good situation for you, 584 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 2: and what do you think about staying here indefinitely? Which 585 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 2: was like a dream come true for me. 586 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment with more family secrets. 587 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:38,240 Speaker 1: Living with Clay's family, the Smiths, is life altering. Clay's 588 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: older brother Luis has been deployed to Iraq and Brittany 589 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 1: stays in his room. The Smiths are like guardian angels 590 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: to Brittany. They've offered her the kind of sanctuary that 591 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: has eluded her all her life. But her relationship with 592 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,760 Speaker 1: Clay becomes complicated. 593 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 2: Because we had dated, we had a history, he had 594 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 2: a girlfriend, and so my assumption was. 595 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 3: Just that's done. 596 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 2: I'm going to try to like not make my heartbrokenness 597 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 2: to a parent. I just want to be good and 598 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,760 Speaker 2: not make trouble in the house and. 599 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 3: You know, keep clean. 600 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 2: And I wanted to feel like I was worthy of 601 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 2: being in a place that felt so nice. We were 602 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 2: teenagers and living together, and even though the Smiths had 603 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 2: told us like you can't, I think the exact phrase 604 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 2: they use was no hanky panky while you're living under 605 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,439 Speaker 2: the same roof, which is what any responsible person would 606 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 2: say in that situation. But we were young and we 607 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 2: had a history, and so we ended up fooling around 608 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 2: and secret and it turned into well, for a while, 609 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 2: it was fooling around and me not being sure, like 610 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 2: why is he still with his girlfriend? And am I 611 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 2: a bad person? And then even after they broke up, 612 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 2: it was still a secret because we knew that I 613 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,359 Speaker 2: would have to leave. And then it's hard to say 614 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 2: that there was any one moment where things turned. But 615 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,439 Speaker 2: he would get very mad at me, and you would 616 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 2: say really awful things to me. At the time, I 617 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 2: just thought of it as rough housing, like he would 618 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,959 Speaker 2: hit me on the arm, or hit me on the leg, 619 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 2: or do this weird crimping thing to my finger that 620 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 2: hurt really bad. It was always some little thing to 621 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 2: just hurt me a little bit, and it didn't feel 622 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,280 Speaker 2: I was like, well, he's not hitting me in the face, 623 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 2: or he's not like pushing me on the ground and 624 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 2: wailing on me. 625 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 3: And I had seen that in my life. 626 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,839 Speaker 2: So I didn't think that it was anything exceptionally bad, 627 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 2: just you know, playing around, and if I would say, 628 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,479 Speaker 2: like stop and get serious, I was ruining the fun. 629 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 2: It got to be a really bad situation. But I 630 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 2: didn't feel like I could tell the Smiths because I 631 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 2: knew that I would have to leave. And it was 632 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 2: the first time I had had like a clean, stable, 633 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 2: otherwise loving environment, and I was finally getting good grades, 634 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 2: I was taking ap classes, and I just didn't want 635 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 2: to risk all of that, And even if that meant 636 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 2: living in this terrible situation where I just had no 637 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 2: self worth. I never knew what version of him I 638 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:26,879 Speaker 2: was going to get. 639 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 3: It was hard. 640 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: And then your mom eventually does show up, and you're 641 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: also in this situation where she wants you to come back. 642 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 1: You do not want to go back. 643 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, one of the worst things about that 644 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 2: time was that I just blocked everything out because I 645 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,919 Speaker 2: was in this all consuming relationship. So I didn't even 646 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 2: know if my brother, who I loved and had been 647 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 2: through so much with, was like back with my mom 648 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 2: or with his dad or just visiting, or like what 649 00:37:58,520 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 2: was going on in his life. 650 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 3: Had tunnel vision. 651 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: Well, you were trying to save yourself. 652 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,439 Speaker 2: Yeah. 653 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: In the meantime, Britney's mom signs over a third party 654 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: custody to the Smiths, making it legal. Brittany has another 655 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 1: very real family. Others continue to try and help her too. 656 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: More guardian angels appear, more hands reach out. Many are 657 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: from trusted and supportive adults. 658 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 2: At school, you know, I was like a kid from 659 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 2: a movie who eats lunch in the stairwell crying because 660 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 2: things were bad and I didn't feel like I fit anywhere, 661 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 2: and everything was hard. And I had an English teacher, 662 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 2: mister Wagner, who would let me eat lunch in his classroom, 663 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 2: and I had my guidance counselor mister Brown. He would 664 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 2: let me come in and just vent and cry, and 665 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 2: then he was the one who really pushed the idea 666 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 2: of college. And until then I just never felt like 667 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 2: a possibility. So I didn't know why I would bother 668 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 2: thinking about it. And then I joined the Academic to caathlon, 669 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 2: and my coach for that one encouraged me to go 670 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 2: to college and helped me figure out how to write 671 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 2: things for applications and how to do interviews. And I 672 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 2: had a creative writing teacher, Kenneth Barrett, who was the 673 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 2: first person to tell me that I was talented writer 674 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 2: and that I should take it more seriously. So I 675 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 2: had all of these people who created space for me 676 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 2: and made sure that I knew that I could get 677 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 2: out and that they were there for me through that, 678 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 2: and I'm endlessly thankful for them. 679 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: The encouragement Brittany receives in school inspires her to really 680 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: focus on getting out, going to college, and starting a 681 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: new life for herself. She cobbles together grants and scholarships, 682 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: she works a bunch of jobs, and soon she's admitted 683 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: to Ball State. Ben too has successfully gone and out 684 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: and gets a full ride to another university. These are 685 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: impressive achievements for anyone, but ones that had previously seemed 686 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: impossible for Brittany and her brother. For some of college, 687 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,840 Speaker 1: Brittany and Clay continue to have a romantic relationship, but 688 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 1: eventually they end things. She is still very much part 689 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: of the family though, and when she comes back for visits, 690 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 1: Louise is home from Iraq now and she's able to 691 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: get to know this big brother figure in whose room 692 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 1: she has lived. Some years later, Brittany is in graduate 693 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,440 Speaker 1: school and she's found her person, a man named Jeff. 694 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: She and Clay have lost touch, but one day Clay 695 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,439 Speaker 1: calls with terrible news Louise has died from a drug 696 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: related overdose. Britney's phone rings again soon, this time from 697 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 1: missus Smith, Diane, and she's calling about Louise's ashes. 698 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 2: So the Smiths were in Indiana and at the time, 699 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 2: I was in Iowa in the graduate program, and Diane 700 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 2: called me and said, Louis's ashes are in this car 701 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 2: and it's been impounded and they're going to basically destroy 702 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 2: the car with the ashes in there. 703 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 3: And I asked if they would mail them back, and 704 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 3: they're refusing. 705 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 2: And this was in San Diego, so I got a 706 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 2: ticket and I flew there, and luckily I just happened 707 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,279 Speaker 2: to have a friend who lived there and picked me 708 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 2: up from the airport and drove me straight to the 709 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:37,360 Speaker 2: impound lot and I went in and kind of I 710 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 2: felt like tearing the place apart with my bare hands, 711 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 2: but I just explained and I'm really sorry. I know 712 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 2: this is an inconvenience and all of this, and eventually 713 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,840 Speaker 2: they let me go in and look around the car 714 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 2: and I found his ashes. 715 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 3: And then, you know, because my flight was the next day. 716 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 2: Oh, it was Thanksgiving also, so like everything was closed, 717 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,279 Speaker 2: and I had a friend who lived there and was 718 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,359 Speaker 2: letting me stay at his place, but he was out 719 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 2: of town for the holiday, so I was just alone 720 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 2: on the other side of the country. I had never 721 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 2: flown before that, I had never been to California with 722 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 2: these ashes. And then yeah, I brought them back and 723 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 2: I had them with me in Iowa for a little 724 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 2: while until I went back for the holiday and I 725 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 2: took them home, and yeah, it was it was a 726 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 2: wild trip, and it was like a brief journey. 727 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, well in a journey of a kind of repair 728 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:36,879 Speaker 1: in a way. 729 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:38,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean. 730 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: To the degree that repair was possible. 731 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,760 Speaker 2: I think before I wrote the book, it all felt 732 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 2: like just something that I was holding all the time, 733 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 2: and it was overwhelming and it was loud, and I 734 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,800 Speaker 2: couldn't stop thinking about certain things, and I was having 735 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 2: panic attacks and nightmares, and I wrote the book and 736 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 2: part to process it, and I went to therapy and 737 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,440 Speaker 2: like actually committed to therapy rather than what I'd done 738 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 2: when I was a kid, which was lied to the 739 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,839 Speaker 2: therapist because I didn't want I heard like CPS will 740 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 2: take you away. And so I finally I started going 741 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 2: to therapy and telling the truth and really committing to 742 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:24,960 Speaker 2: taking care of myself. 743 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,839 Speaker 3: And I talked a lot to Ben, like we. 744 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 2: Just like delved through everything that had happened, which the 745 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 2: more I think about that lately, it's like when you 746 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,799 Speaker 2: go through a lot with someone, it would be completely understandable. 747 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:41,840 Speaker 2: If I had tried to call him one day and 748 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 2: say like, hey, you remember that time this awful thing happened. 749 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 2: If he had responded like, I'm out of that now 750 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:49,799 Speaker 2: and I don't want to talk about it, I would 751 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:55,040 Speaker 2: have understood. But the fact that he immediately was like, yeah, let's. 752 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:55,719 Speaker 3: Let's talk about it. 753 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 2: How messed up was that I was huge just having 754 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:04,480 Speaker 2: someone who like understood it intimately and could confirm things 755 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:09,399 Speaker 2: and deconstruct them with me and affirm like, oh, we're 756 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,839 Speaker 2: both here now, and it's not like perfect but we're 757 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:13,439 Speaker 2: making it. 758 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,400 Speaker 1: Indeed, they are making it. Brittany is a published author 759 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,360 Speaker 1: living in Albuquerque with her partner Jeff. She gives public 760 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:29,080 Speaker 1: readings to large audiences, some of which include the very 761 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:33,160 Speaker 1: teachers from her past that made this journey possible. Ben 762 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,600 Speaker 1: is a family counselor. Britney's relationship with her mom is okay, 763 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: but continues to be fraught when she tells her she's 764 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,520 Speaker 1: going to write this book. Her mom tells her to 765 00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:45,560 Speaker 1: do what she needs to do. 766 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,720 Speaker 2: I feel like I've kind of exercised it in a way. 767 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 2: It's not like anything will ever be completely easy, or 768 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 2: like those things didn't happen a that I've written about them, 769 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 2: But I feel like I'm not so obsessed with thinking 770 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,880 Speaker 2: about these things, and I have way fewer panic attacks. 771 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,440 Speaker 2: I can't say I have none, but mostly I just 772 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 2: feel like I processed it. 773 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 3: I did what I wanted to do. 774 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,040 Speaker 2: And now when I have people who will come to 775 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,799 Speaker 2: me and say your book gave me context for things 776 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 2: happening in my own life or helped me find ways 777 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,880 Speaker 2: to talk about it, that means the world to me, 778 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 2: because I didn't just write it to process it. It 779 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:31,600 Speaker 2: was a huge part of why I wrote it, but 780 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 2: just the idea that it can go beyond me. 781 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 3: It's like everything. 782 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 1: Near the end of her memoir, Brittany also includes a 783 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:47,080 Speaker 1: moving scene in which she shares draft after draft of 784 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,680 Speaker 1: her manuscript with Ben. She hopes and praise that he 785 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,880 Speaker 1: won't feel she has somehow usurped his story by telling 786 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,399 Speaker 1: her own. She writes, is that what I'm doing to you? 787 00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,839 Speaker 1: I ask Ben after he reads my latest draft, I'm 788 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,640 Speaker 1: telling your story too. Someone had to tell it, he says. 789 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:11,280 Speaker 1: I'm glad it's you, and so are we. Here's Brittany 790 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,400 Speaker 1: reading one last passage from her powerful. 791 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,360 Speaker 3: Memoir, The truth is. 792 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 2: I spent so long imagining a perfect future so I 793 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,480 Speaker 2: could get through a profoundly imperfect present. I'd close my 794 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,720 Speaker 2: eyes and build beautiful houses where nothing could ever go wrong. 795 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 2: I needed that to hold me up. But now I 796 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,440 Speaker 2: have to let it go. The world will never be 797 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:39,440 Speaker 2: entirely safe. Troubles will come, loved ones will die, and 798 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,560 Speaker 2: landlords will reject my offer of free eggs in exchange 799 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,040 Speaker 2: for an exception from the terms of my lease. Now 800 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 2: I'm the clattish adult who controls my life, so I 801 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 2: have to stop waiting for perfect conditions and trust that 802 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,800 Speaker 2: I can handle what comes. Planting a seed is easy. 803 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 2: Tending to it so it can grow is the hard part. 804 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,080 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. Molly Zaccur is 805 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,240 Speaker 1: the story editor and Dylan Fagan is the executive producer. 806 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,520 Speaker 1: If you have a family secret you'd like to share, 807 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 1: please leave us a voicemail and your story could appear 808 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,799 Speaker 1: on an upcoming episode. Our number is one eight eight 809 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: eight Secret zero. That's the number zero. You can also 810 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:50,919 Speaker 1: find me on Instagram at Danny Ryder. And if you'd 811 00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,400 Speaker 1: like to know more about the story that inspired this podcast, 812 00:47:53,840 --> 00:48:24,239 Speaker 1: check out my memoir Inheritance. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 813 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,880 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 814 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:28,840 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.