Speaker 1: Class action is a production of I heart radio and
Speaker 1: sound argument. Thank you your type the fitting. You're the
Speaker 1: lead investigator of this murder. I was you'd agree that
Speaker 1: there are important parts of an investigation. Of course. Matt
Speaker 1: Skinner was in my trial ad class last spring, and
Speaker 1: when we got to cross examination weekn trial at he
Speaker 1: came in and said, I know that I can push this,
Speaker 1: but I don't know how. And that was the first
Speaker 1: time that a student had come to me outside of
Speaker 1: class and said, Hey, can you show me how to
Speaker 1: get to this higher level? I know there's something there,
Speaker 1: but what do I need to do? And he came
Speaker 1: into class that night with this cross examination that just
Speaker 1: utterly devastated the witness and was brutal. Now, let's talk
Speaker 1: about that you measured the crime scene. I did. The
Speaker 1: shooter was sixty five yards away from the deceased. Yes,
Speaker 1: you measured these distances with three ft wide steps? Did
Speaker 1: you didn't you use a tape measure? No? You didn't
Speaker 1: use a yardstick. You use nothing to provide a more
Speaker 1: accurate measurement. I use my three C gate to measure,
Speaker 1: and I think that's very accurate. Is it more accurate
Speaker 1: than a tape? Measure. No, no further question, Jarre, you're
Speaker 1: listening to class Action. We're back in South Dakota. It's
Speaker 1: getting colder outside, and the mock trial season is rolling on.
Speaker 1: This is episode eight, Standing on the shoulders of Giants. Matt,
Speaker 1: it was your debrief. Um, I felt good about it.
Speaker 1: I thought I did a good job. I think our
Speaker 1: argument works. I think it's in our favorite Recently, we
Speaker 1: spent a day with Matt Skinner, who's a standout intern
Speaker 1: at the Minnihaha County Public Defender's Office in Sioux Falls.
Speaker 1: Matt's a third year law student and is certified to
Speaker 1: conduct legal work in the state. Today, he's working with
Speaker 1: a client who claims that his rights were abused by
Speaker 1: the Sioux Falls Police Department during an arrest. And I'm
Speaker 1: like what And I opened the door and then like
Speaker 1: go out, and I say, how do you guys get
Speaker 1: in here? You know what this is. I was going
Speaker 1: to say something about that. So we can't take anything
Speaker 1: that he has to say with actual validity. Matt is
Speaker 1: a signed to work with Derrick Hoffman, himself a recent
Speaker 1: crowd and a former mock trial competitor. The two of
Speaker 1: them walk their client over to the County Courthouse, which
Speaker 1: is just two blocks away. Matt is going to cross
Speaker 1: examine the cops today. Okay, He's gonna pretty much do
Speaker 1: the whole thing. He's more than qualified. He's on trial team.
Speaker 1: It's the same thing. I mean, there's no difference. It's
Speaker 1: probably easier to cross exam a real cop than a
Speaker 1: fake cop because these real cops or duver. Then we'll
Speaker 1: debrief afterwards. I've always wanted to do defense work. I
Speaker 1: applied to the Public Defender's Office and they gave me
Speaker 1: a chance, and I really liked it. My name is
Speaker 1: Matthew Skinner Jr. And I'm a three L so. I
Speaker 1: am from the Oglala Suit trab. My dad is Matthew
Speaker 1: Skinner Senior. He's got a practice out in Rapid City
Speaker 1: and he has done criminal law since I was born.
Speaker 1: Got a trial coming up, and mom and dad would
Speaker 1: sit in the front seat talk about it, and I'd
Speaker 1: be in the back, leaning forward, trying to listen as
Speaker 1: much as I could. I'd say, I'm defense minded because
Speaker 1: of my dad. I love what he does. A lot
Speaker 1: of police officers that I've talked to have been like, well,
Speaker 1: you're just trying to get the bad guy away, and
Speaker 1: it's like, no, I'm trying to make sure you do
Speaker 1: your job. If you missed a step in your investigation,
Speaker 1: that should not affect this person. You need to do
Speaker 1: your job to the best of your ability, and I'm
Speaker 1: whole thing you accountable to that. Are you going to
Speaker 1: do the first I think you got it, dude, I
Speaker 1: don't know how to do that. I don't remember how
Speaker 1: to do it. Recollection back inside the law school building
Speaker 1: and for million students are in between classes, their workshopping
Speaker 1: their opening statements. Chector my computer like, yeah, oh wait,
Speaker 1: if sorry, maybe please the Court Council your honor. Today
Speaker 1: you're going to see a contrast between fantasy and reality.
Speaker 1: Tyler Velski is a second year law student. Today he's
Speaker 1: practicing with his trial team for its first competition of
Speaker 1: the season. The case is a fun fact pattern and
Speaker 1: it's a wrongful death. You see what tears families the
Speaker 1: part as they fight over money, and in this case,
Speaker 1: we got a million dollars of state and greed gets
Speaker 1: the best of people. Sometimes that's good advice on how
Speaker 1: to put that together. This is something that excites me.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of work, can be stressful, but that's
Speaker 1: what I want to do. And when people think of lawyers,
Speaker 1: when they think of the profession, they think about the trials.
Speaker 1: That's what makes the lawyers. It's a little bit of
Speaker 1: theater involved, and you get to show off a little bit,
Speaker 1: you know, the trial. That's kind of that's the pinnacle
Speaker 1: of practicing law. I think, you know, some people just
Speaker 1: want to sit in an office all day and open
Speaker 1: probates and look at the states and never see a
Speaker 1: court room. I would get bored after a while. As
Speaker 1: an overarching, really important statistic for today's discussion, I think
Speaker 1: it is worthwhile to keep in mind the higher rate
Speaker 1: of police killings in the United States versus other countries.
Speaker 1: We don't have a lot of data. My name is
Speaker 1: Greg Brazil. I'm an assistant professor at the University of
Speaker 1: South Dakota Law School, and the name of the class
Speaker 1: is Selected Issues in Criminal Law. So today we're turning
Speaker 1: to policing the Rise of the Warrior cop. I love
Speaker 1: teaching this class, even though it involves a lot of
Speaker 1: difficult conversations. I recently did that right along with the
Speaker 1: Vermilion Police Department, and it seemed like they are very
Speaker 1: much a community based Problem Solving Department. That being said,
Speaker 1: the State of South Dakota did offer a grant to
Speaker 1: the South Dakota d C Midwest Gang Investigators Association to
Speaker 1: have this event. It took place last year Sioux Falls,
Speaker 1: featuring Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman, the Killology Guy. Here is
Speaker 1: an extreme, but not a typical quote from the kind
Speaker 1: of presentation the Dave Grossman makes. We are at war
Speaker 1: and our cops are the frontline troops in that war.
Speaker 1: You are the delta force. It's your job to put
Speaker 1: a piece of steel in your fist and kill those
Speaker 1: sons of bitches when they come to kill our kids.
Speaker 1: The law students are confronting the rise and police militarization
Speaker 1: here in their own home communities. South Dakota has a
Speaker 1: strong tradition of politeness, respect, helping your neighbors. A lot
Speaker 1: of people don't even lock their doors at night, but
Speaker 1: these days the rhetorics says they're at war. Final word.
Speaker 1: I was in about seventh eighth grade when I had
Speaker 1: the SWAP raid my home at three in the morning
Speaker 1: looking for my brother who was already incarcerated. So you
Speaker 1: have seven to eight people coming in with their flashlights,
Speaker 1: they're extremely large guns. You know what I mean, Me
Speaker 1: and my little sister, my mom, and my dad, and
Speaker 1: you're looking for my brother. You're telling me you couldn't
Speaker 1: how much research? How much did you have to do
Speaker 1: to look and see that he was already locked up?
Speaker 1: Why are you looking for him in our house in
Speaker 1: the middle, You see what I'm saying. So that's where
Speaker 1: it's just like that distrust things like that where there
Speaker 1: has to be this I wouldn't say, like a bright
Speaker 1: line rule, where it's like, in these instances we need
Speaker 1: it and in these you can't. I just think it,
Speaker 1: really it creates a lot of distrust. Absolutely, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing that this in one more comic,
Speaker 1: it's it's unreasonable. I mean, there are circumstances where we
Speaker 1: do need a strong police force, but there might get
Speaker 1: to a point and this is not far fetched where
Speaker 1: they are so where they is so powerful that we
Speaker 1: can't tell them no even if they're even if what
Speaker 1: they're doing is unjust Tyler, if you don't like something
Speaker 1: like burn, you know, it's politicians that put into place.
Speaker 1: So if you think we're you know, funding too much
Speaker 1: militarization and the police, who's putting in that place. Oftentimes
Speaker 1: it's the police officers who get blamed for carrying out
Speaker 1: these policies that are put in place by higher ups,
Speaker 1: and politicians make these decisions. So maybe, like you said,
Speaker 1: we can hold the politicians and kleable, you know exactly.
Speaker 1: And that trust issue has such huge consequences for crime.
Speaker 1: So if you're concerned about reducing crime, you have to
Speaker 1: care about trust. We'll talk about that when we do
Speaker 1: the Police Legitimacy Unit as well. All right, thanks everyone.
Speaker 1: Back in Sioux Falls, Matt Skinner is inside Courtroom number
Speaker 1: one defending his client. This is an actual case, not
Speaker 1: a mock trial. Today's appearance is a suppression hearing, and
Speaker 1: the d a's office objected to the presence of our microphones.
Speaker 1: Matt is questioning the procedures taken by two Sue Falls
Speaker 1: cops during the arrest of his client. It's a big
Speaker 1: assignment for an intern, a sign that the Public Defender's
Speaker 1: office has confidence in his abilities. I tell myself, like
Speaker 1: for this suppression all week as nearious for it obviously
Speaker 1: and straight. But the best way I can cope with
Speaker 1: that stress is telling myself all I have to do
Speaker 1: is my best because I am not the reason that
Speaker 1: this person is in court today. Whether they did it
Speaker 1: or not is of issue for a jury. The suppression
Speaker 1: hearing last about an hour. Matt checks in with his
Speaker 1: client in the hallway afterwards. I've never been a party
Speaker 1: any of that, so it was kind of interesting to
Speaker 1: watch how that absolutely goes down. You know, you can
Speaker 1: question the cops and see the cops nervous for once,
Speaker 1: you know, for letting me take the reins on that too.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. It was a great learning experience to
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time with it, texting Derek random
Speaker 1: at random hours, Hey can you look this up for me?
Speaker 1: But I appreciate it, and I'll get with your office.
Speaker 1: And it's gonna be a busy day. So as soon
Speaker 1: as Matt gets a free minute, he calls his dad.
Speaker 1: Do you hear me? So it went well. They ended
Speaker 1: up calling um two of the three officers, right. The
Speaker 1: one officer was like newly a cop, so it felt
Speaker 1: like kind of like a showdown between the newby lawyer
Speaker 1: and the newby cop. But I got him to essentially
Speaker 1: admit that he never read Miranda and that he should have.
Speaker 1: Oh really. He admitted that but did he admit that
Speaker 1: he should have brought him. Yeah, he's like, I didn't,
Speaker 1: but I should have. That's that's a pretty good point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's hard to win those suppression earings, and he just
Speaker 1: gotta go for it, right, That's how you learn. That's
Speaker 1: how to get better. That's the fear is you don't
Speaker 1: want to look stupid. But all of us as attorneys
Speaker 1: have been there. So now I'm sure you're glad you
Speaker 1: did the whole thing that you did both of the cops. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, oh yeah, for sure. I only did one
Speaker 1: stupid thing too. I didn't know how to basically questioned
Speaker 1: the cop about the impaired driver report, so I'm like
Speaker 1: standing there, I'm like, oh my god, I don't know
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. I had to call the attorney over
Speaker 1: to basically walk me through it while I was standing
Speaker 1: next to the cop. And now that you've done that,
Speaker 1: you know how to do it. We'll talk more about
Speaker 1: it at cabin week. Alright, you later, maybe tonight too.
Speaker 1: All right, I'll talk to you later. I love you,
Speaker 1: all right, love to later. So it's very interesting. Usually, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the thing in South Dakota. I've never I don't
Speaker 1: walk the house, so I keep my keys in the car.
Speaker 1: So right here, this is kind of what's famous and Vermilion.
Speaker 1: You have the Dakota Dome. This is where the football
Speaker 1: team plays. Well, yeah, this is kind of like the Jewel.
Speaker 1: Right now, let's happen. Let's see here, let's go right here.
Speaker 1: Oh oh, preseason scrimmon. Baby. I think that that's the
Speaker 1: football team of Kayons. We're at main Stream. That is
Speaker 1: where I get my haircut to Kyle barber shop. There's
Speaker 1: the Varsity Pub. My roommate, he's a lawyer. He practices
Speaker 1: right over there, carries that's the scholarly bar. That's where
Speaker 1: we have all our socials. Okay, here's our courthouse. They're
Speaker 1: talking about building a new one, but I don't think
Speaker 1: that's gonna taxpayers aren't gonna go for that. I don't
Speaker 1: think South Dakota has this notion of tough on crime,
Speaker 1: you know, lock him up. Well, you've got to take
Speaker 1: into account somebody's life story, their history, what they've been through,
Speaker 1: what's created them to be in that situation. And you know,
Speaker 1: I definitely see myself in that role kind of helping
Speaker 1: the underdog, and you know, just being as best advocate
Speaker 1: as I can for people that are, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of underdogs the society that have a mistrust of the system.
Speaker 1: So ver millions in the unique locations, so over past
Speaker 1: this river, then you're in Nebraska. I don't know what
Speaker 1: your stereotypes about South Dakota people are, but I've never hunted.
Speaker 1: I don't fish, I don't camp, I don't hike. Growing up, yeah,
Speaker 1: I came from an athlete family, so sports were important.
Speaker 1: And uh, I know about politics longs like a lot
Speaker 1: of these politicians. I'll tell you how they do it.
Speaker 1: I think exact what the culture. I'm not gonna put
Speaker 1: on a cowboy had or shoot a gun just for
Speaker 1: political votes. Well, I guess my situation in my hometown.
Speaker 1: Everybody in those up Native American because my dad and
Speaker 1: everything so traditionally though, like a lot of Native Americans,
Speaker 1: it's part of the old the old culture. You know,
Speaker 1: you the hunted buffalo on the prairie, first survival. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I just I never got into it because
Speaker 1: my thing was and you know, on a and the
Speaker 1: early part of November, the last thing I want to
Speaker 1: do is be in a field at seven o'clock in
Speaker 1: the morning when it's thirty two degrees out. You know
Speaker 1: what I mean? I see I came up. One of
Speaker 1: the calls I was on this week was recruiting candidates
Speaker 1: to run. I will tell you it, Tyler's name was
Speaker 1: brought up. And I have no doubt that if there's
Speaker 1: any candidate that if they want to rise up in
Speaker 1: the party and and give up of some of themselves
Speaker 1: to help others, this is the person that will do
Speaker 1: it well. My name is Dennis Olsen. I'm from here
Speaker 1: on South Dakota. I am the national committeeman for the
Speaker 1: South Dakota Democratic Party. Got the opportunity to join him
Speaker 1: and work with on his campaign. I did a lot
Speaker 1: of parades, homecoming parades, a couple of debates, and then
Speaker 1: a lot of campaigning door to door. So it's a
Speaker 1: lot of work in Tyler Vellski ran for state representative
Speaker 1: as a Democrat, following in his dad's footsteps of public service.
Speaker 1: What Tyler had where he was working for everybody. He
Speaker 1: will represent everybody and be a voice for everyone. There's
Speaker 1: individuals like Tyler in his age that are fired up
Speaker 1: and like Barack Obamas would say, and ready to go.
Speaker 1: They have the enthusiasm that's been missing. Dennis remembered to
Speaker 1: bring along some old campaign clips to play for Tyler.
Speaker 1: So what speeches this from? Is this? Is this from
Speaker 1: one of my speeches? Or do we write this out?
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know, I got I can't remember.
Speaker 1: It looks like there's two versions. I know I did
Speaker 1: right here. There's two, Well, there's two versions on My
Speaker 1: last version was the best, I think, But yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it. That's a good one here the day. I
Speaker 1: will say running for office as a first time cand
Speaker 1: I announced when I was twenty six years old, and
Speaker 1: it's been a very time stressful experience, but also very
Speaker 1: rewarding experience. It's been an honor, one of the most
Speaker 1: rewarding experiences of my life. Well, the second number one
Speaker 1: is coaching my baseball team. Always come first, always in
Speaker 1: my heart. Number one. But it's been a great journey
Speaker 1: and we're gonna finish off strong these next four days. Now,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get a big victory. On November six. November six,
Speaker 1: Tyler ran as a Democrat in a majority Republican district.
Speaker 1: He went to door two door and pulled votes from
Speaker 1: the incumbents. Even though we didn't win. We overperformed based
Speaker 1: on the voting registration. But when I got out of there,
Speaker 1: I said, this isn't the end of it. This we're
Speaker 1: just getting started here. It's just a matter when we
Speaker 1: get that next opportunity. Tyler Velski still has that fire
Speaker 1: in the belly to get out and help the Democratic Party,
Speaker 1: the party of working people, of diversity, the party that
Speaker 1: tries to include everybody under its big tent a little
Speaker 1: bit about running for office has been a very rewarding
Speaker 1: and a very humbling journey. I see some of all
Speaker 1: these beautiful letters that many of you have written about me,
Speaker 1: all the frang words are you written about me? And
Speaker 1: I think to myself, what are they talking about? But
Speaker 1: it's been a great journey, and we gotta keep it going.
Speaker 1: We everything running. We we you can get your dad's
Speaker 1: old district band and so turned about Democrat Shane put
Speaker 1: food on the table. I mean, we have people are
Speaker 1: working two and three jobs just trying to make it okay.
Speaker 1: That's why we got fire in the belly for Democrats
Speaker 1: to get involved and do the thing. You don't know
Speaker 1: what's going to happen in the future. That's one thing
Speaker 1: that I've learned sometimes you take a detour, but if
Speaker 1: you have that goal, no matter what detour you take,
Speaker 1: the path will always lead you back there if you
Speaker 1: want it. How do you feel wearing a suit? I
Speaker 1: like it. I like dressing. That's one of the things
Speaker 1: I enjoy about the legal profession. You get to look
Speaker 1: nice and more as suit Tyler has finally arrived at
Speaker 1: his big moment, his first appearance at a mock trial.
Speaker 1: It just gives you a little edge, a little confidence,
Speaker 1: and people treat you different. When I'm walking to the
Speaker 1: gas station today, everybody opens the door and says, hi, sir,
Speaker 1: how you doing more? Normally I don't get that kind
Speaker 1: of treatment. Yeah, but once inside the court room, that
Speaker 1: suave outward appearance starts to give way to nervous tension.
Speaker 1: Can you want to turn that down? Oh? Wait, no,
Speaker 1: office right? Like I said, I just want to hit
Speaker 1: the care for Grandma gambling. Try to get that search
Speaker 1: history in. If not, I'll finish with a few follow
Speaker 1: up questions and then we'll move on Jason. That should
Speaker 1: be pretty straightforward, and I guess where we're at on time.
Speaker 1: Might term whether I redirect, although it's probably not be
Speaker 1: too long. So here's here's the mentality and redirect. If
Speaker 1: you think it was super damning that they brought something
Speaker 1: up that you need to address in out for questions,
Speaker 1: right and Mr Miller and Mr Bell, we're ready whenever
Speaker 1: you are. May it please the Court council, members of
Speaker 1: the jury, the case before you today. It comes down
Speaker 1: to fact versus fiction, the factual reality that Jace Billington
Speaker 1: experienced every single day that he lived with his grandmother
Speaker 1: caring for, and the fictional fantasy of his younger sister Parker.
Speaker 1: Members of the jury, my name is Tyler Veleski, along
Speaker 1: with my co council Mr Miller Dylan Miller. Over the
Speaker 1: course the team battles for position in the case. But
Speaker 1: calling of exhibits online, it's a technological nightmare. I have
Speaker 1: to put exhibits on there through the computer, and I
Speaker 1: just learned how to like share that last night. Then,
Speaker 1: under the judge's watchful eye, one of the witnesses throws
Speaker 1: them a curve off. Hello, miss Billington's can you please
Speaker 1: introduce yourself to the jury. I don't know if we
Speaker 1: have are I don't know if we have our witness
Speaker 1: She was our assigned winness. She's from Hostra. Yes, our
Speaker 1: witness did not show up right away, so I was
Speaker 1: supposed to do direct examination right away during our case
Speaker 1: in chief, and I called the witness and our witness
Speaker 1: was not there, so we had to move ahead and
Speaker 1: do Dylan's part first. And I was like, Oh, this
Speaker 1: could be bad. We don't have our witness here. That's
Speaker 1: gonna look really bad for the schools. Fine, make you're
Speaker 1: john ally really appreciative youthing. As soon as the trial
Speaker 1: comes to a close, Tyler calls he's dad for some perspective. Anybody, Hey,
Speaker 1: how's it going good? I wanted to talk to you
Speaker 1: about what went down to day. I had the trial
Speaker 1: and I absolutely killed it and I got the Best
Speaker 1: Opening Award. Now I'm just kidding. Actually it was disappointing
Speaker 1: the day anyway. We were set to go at one
Speaker 1: o'clock and they switched the bracket up on us. We
Speaker 1: don't know exactly how it was going. We were supposed
Speaker 1: to go twice and then the top team's advanced to
Speaker 1: the finals. But I don't know either. They switched up
Speaker 1: the bracket, but regardless, we're not going today. What was
Speaker 1: your first trial, like, what was your experience. Like with that,
Speaker 1: I adn't good experience. I was well prepared. It's like
Speaker 1: anything of life. If you're prepared, you're gonna handle. See,
Speaker 1: this is script experience for you for the real world
Speaker 1: because you're preparing for trial right now. Hopefully we go
Speaker 1: if not any other last words of advice advice, just
Speaker 1: to say, Tyler, I love you. You really have that
Speaker 1: natural gift of communication. You don't learn that books. It's
Speaker 1: just something you're kind of born with, and you were
Speaker 1: born with it, and you always strive for it, and
Speaker 1: you've got it. You've got the in fact, your buddy,
Speaker 1: all right, talk to you later. So let's look at
Speaker 1: adoptive couple versus baby girl, which seems like it's in
Speaker 1: serious tension with holy Field and a couple of different ways.
Speaker 1: So we'll pull that apart a bit. So Professor and
Speaker 1: Tweetie teaches the Indian Law class. South Dakota was one
Speaker 1: of the first states to put an Indian law question
Speaker 1: on its bar. Example differently by many people, but it
Speaker 1: was certainly is for the benefit of tribes, and so
Speaker 1: ambiguities are to be resolved in favor of the tribe.
Speaker 1: Statutes are to be liberally. Today, they're tackling a major controversy,
Speaker 1: a case that's actually headed to the United States Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: Earlier this week, the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals released
Speaker 1: an extensive opinion on the Indian Child Welfare Act. Lawyers
Speaker 1: immediately started to examine its potential effect on legal processes
Speaker 1: in place for more than forty years. An attorney with
Speaker 1: the American Civil Liberties Unions as much of the law
Speaker 1: still stands, but some important protections have been found unconstitutional.
Speaker 1: The Indian Child Welfare Act, which we also referred to
Speaker 1: as Equal, was passed in ninety eight. Native children were
Speaker 1: being removed, moved by state social service workers and placed
Speaker 1: with non Indian families. And there were some studies that
Speaker 1: revealed these hugely disparate problems with Native children being removed,
Speaker 1: and so Equal was supposed to remedy that, and so
Speaker 1: it put in protections so that the child would stay
Speaker 1: with the family. And um there were also placement preferences
Speaker 1: so that if a child was removed, they would go
Speaker 1: to a family that was within the tribe extended family
Speaker 1: members before they would go to a non Indian family. Right.
Speaker 1: That's a big part of it is that they're saying
Speaker 1: the families not being broken up if there never was
Speaker 1: never was a family according to the court, So we
Speaker 1: have nine twelve Native families are in danger of losing
Speaker 1: their children. So that's a huge problem. It was trying
Speaker 1: to undo these centuries of oppression where tribal governments and
Speaker 1: tribal cultures were the target of these destructive policies. And
Speaker 1: if we sort of end those remedial policies, but will
Speaker 1: instantiate more injustice for tribal families tribal cultures too, because
Speaker 1: there's also a concern what tribes will die out if
Speaker 1: so many of their children are taken away, how can
Speaker 1: they even sustain themselves? Company, oh past share a personal story.
Speaker 1: My father was born on the Standing Rock Indian Reservation.
Speaker 1: He grew up in poverty, came from a home of
Speaker 1: alcoholism and violence and abuse, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: the Department of Social Services showed up with no notice
Speaker 1: and they just took him from the home and put
Speaker 1: him in foster care four hours away in here On
Speaker 1: to a white family. And throughout his childhood there was
Speaker 1: a huge battle. He went back and forth to the
Speaker 1: rest and his mom would kind of go down a
Speaker 1: bad road. Then he would go back to the Foster
Speaker 1: home and there was a big custody battle, and eventually
Speaker 1: I just have to make sure my dog snows out
Speaker 1: of the office because sometimes you have Tennessee to embark
Speaker 1: when people come in the front door. So just excuses
Speaker 1: where your snow snore. I don't have to comb my hair,
Speaker 1: I don't have put any moose in my hair or
Speaker 1: anything like that. We're okay, okay. My name is Ron Veleski.
Speaker 1: I'm an attorney here in South Dakota, and I just
Speaker 1: usually go by Ron Valeski, Attorney at Law. I have
Speaker 1: been told by my relatives. I've been advised that we
Speaker 1: are in the lineage of Sitting Bowl. How many generations
Speaker 1: back that goes, I'm not certain, but I have been
Speaker 1: told by my family that we are in the ancestral
Speaker 1: line of chief Sitting Bowl. Makes me feel humbled and
Speaker 1: makes me feel very glad about who I am. I
Speaker 1: was born on the Standing Rocky and Heat Reservation. As
Speaker 1: my siblings, all were were born into poverty. We were
Speaker 1: born into family dysfunction, we were born into alcoholism, and
Speaker 1: uh there was some physical abuse, et cetera. I loved
Speaker 1: my mother and but she was an alcoholic, and there
Speaker 1: were times when the welfare agency they would come and
Speaker 1: take us children and put us in foster homes, in
Speaker 1: foster care different places. My brother was about three, maybe
Speaker 1: I was five and he was four. We were just
Speaker 1: young kids, and that went on for a number of
Speaker 1: years until finally the welfare department said well that's enough.
Speaker 1: I ended up being adopted by the Veleski's and my
Speaker 1: mom said, yeah, you showed up. The head of the
Speaker 1: welfare department brought you to the house. You had a
Speaker 1: T shirt on with a hole in it, you had
Speaker 1: a little some little shorts on. You had tenner shoes
Speaker 1: with a hole in both toes in a shoe box,
Speaker 1: and that was all your belogings. And they took me in.
Speaker 1: They loved me and they raised me, and I'm here
Speaker 1: today as an example of love and courage by a
Speaker 1: white family that adopted a little Indian child from a reservation.
Speaker 1: My father was a custodian at Lincoln School, and every
Speaker 1: day after school I would go down to where he
Speaker 1: was working at the school and and I'd played basketball
Speaker 1: hour after hour in the gym so and also played
Speaker 1: some football, ran track, played baseball all those things. I
Speaker 1: wasn't Jim four, but I was a pretty decent all
Speaker 1: around athlete. You know, you always got some war hoops
Speaker 1: and basketball from different fans around the state. But I
Speaker 1: took that as a compliment because I was a good
Speaker 1: player and one the other side was trying to do
Speaker 1: chance and war hoops when I was shooting free throws.
Speaker 1: I took that as a badge of her, maybe even
Speaker 1: a sign of respect towards me. My father that adopted me,
Speaker 1: and he died when I was a freshman in high school.
Speaker 1: So I often say I became a juvenile delinquent, which
Speaker 1: I did for a year or two. But I ran
Speaker 1: into guidance counselor named Don'ta Brown, who called me down
Speaker 1: to her office one day and she said, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're doing. You're you're flunking this
Speaker 1: and you're flunking that. But she said, your test scores
Speaker 1: are very high. And she said, how would you like
Speaker 1: to go to Harvard? And I said, well, I don't
Speaker 1: know anything about Harvard. I don't know that I've ever
Speaker 1: heard of it, except I know they played the Carlisle
Speaker 1: Indians back in nineteen twelve and got beat but I'm
Speaker 1: not even sure where it is. She's wells in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Speaker 1: So I did my part and she did her part.
Speaker 1: M and I got an opportunity to go to Harvard
Speaker 1: and spent four years there in college, and I went
Speaker 1: to the University of South Dakota Law School, and I
Speaker 1: was very interested in politics at that point in time.
Speaker 1: Ron Velsky was elected to the state legislature as a
Speaker 1: Republican in Night, the only Native American lawmaker at the time.
Speaker 1: Where's Native American representation in state government? How many cabinet
Speaker 1: members in state government a Native America? How many Native
Speaker 1: Americans on the circuit court bench throughout the state of
Speaker 1: South Dakota. When are we gonna get representation in this
Speaker 1: government like we should have and like we need to have.
Speaker 1: I say to the power structures, listen to what's happening
Speaker 1: out there, and let's make state government and the judicial
Speaker 1: system more representative of the population as a whole. He
Speaker 1: was a barrier breaker in the stens that I think
Speaker 1: he was the first Native American to, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: run for governor for a major party at the time
Speaker 1: in the United States. I used to go to the
Speaker 1: Standing Rock. I remember when my dad was running for governor.
Speaker 1: We went to the reservation. You know, I met some
Speaker 1: of my uncles and family that didn't I didn't even
Speaker 1: know personally. My dad's represented a lot of Native Americans
Speaker 1: throughout the state because he's well known in Indian Territory
Speaker 1: and being one of the few, you know, Native American attorneys,
Speaker 1: they know you, and they might not know too many lawyers,
Speaker 1: so they give him a call. He tried to help,
Speaker 1: you know people from where he came from as much
Speaker 1: as he can. In tribal court, things are much more informal.
Speaker 1: Family structures are much more different among Native people than
Speaker 1: they are among the white dominant society. So when you're
Speaker 1: in those areas of practicing law and travel court, you
Speaker 1: have to understand those nuances. We don't have a lot
Speaker 1: of Native American attorneys in South Dakota. I think we
Speaker 1: need more Native American attorneys on the reservations. We don't
Speaker 1: have enough. Native Americans are rather reserved people. They aren't
Speaker 1: the types of people that are really aggressive, but yet
Speaker 1: they are strong people and they know that, and I
Speaker 1: think that helps them at times to be able to
Speaker 1: rise above racism, bigotry, and prejudice and really become what
Speaker 1: they want to become. And here's the deal. What they
Speaker 1: want to become isn't always what the dominant white society
Speaker 1: would think that they should want to become. They have
Speaker 1: their own sense of well being, and that well being
Speaker 1: sometimes isn't in harmony with the society outside them. And
Speaker 1: be talking about Native Americans and criminal justice. Please coming
Speaker 1: up and welcome Professor Frank Palmerston. Back in Professor Greg
Speaker 1: Brazil's class, Tyler meets the man who wrote the Tribal
Speaker 1: Court Handbook, a sixties radical who drove out to the
Speaker 1: prairie and a battered Chevy Nova and didn't look back.
Speaker 1: He ended up teaching tribal law at USD MHM. Historically,
Speaker 1: they have been very few figures and state politics in particular,
Speaker 1: that show respect to Indian people. We always say to me, Frank,
Speaker 1: you know, until people show us respect, we're not gonna
Speaker 1: be able to go forward. In one of my last
Speaker 1: couple of years and Indian law, I had like students
Speaker 1: read a book by Louise Erderic or other Indian authors,
Speaker 1: and my assignment went something like this, write a three
Speaker 1: page book review of this. Students were saying it was
Speaker 1: like really confronted stuff, or Indian people saying that they
Speaker 1: were find it tough, like fitting into law school because
Speaker 1: they didn't feel that law school really had enough space
Speaker 1: for them. Guarantee, you cannot be a good prosecute unless
Speaker 1: you have some understanding that racism actually exists, and it's
Speaker 1: a possibility in every case that you have, and certainly
Speaker 1: from the defense side, of course, you have to, I
Speaker 1: believe entertain ain't it if you just pretend that it
Speaker 1: doesn't exist because you're a good person in quotation, weren't Like, No,
Speaker 1: you can't be a good lawyer. You definitely cannot. Let
Speaker 1: me get a round of applause for Professor PALMERSI thank you,
Speaker 1: thanks so much. I really enjoyed it. In Sue Falls,
Speaker 1: Matt Skinner's internship at the Public Defender's Office is coming
Speaker 1: to a close. He and Derek are meeting with a
Speaker 1: new client. Matt, why don't you kind of run through
Speaker 1: the charge? Okay? So yeah, do you? I first in speeding.
Speaker 1: The location of the traffic stop was on Interstate ninety
Speaker 1: mile mark, Minia County. When the officer arrived on the scene,
Speaker 1: spoke with Trooper Jensen, who informed him that the driver
Speaker 1: who has stopped for traveling a d two miles per
Speaker 1: hour in a sixty speed zone. Does that sound right?
Speaker 1: So far? While in the patrol vehicle, the officer detected
Speaker 1: the order of our called beverage. That right, A breath
Speaker 1: test was administered. The reading was point one three breath
Speaker 1: alcohol content. You were placed under arrest for driving under
Speaker 1: the influence, first offense, transported to jail. And this was
Speaker 1: at like, yes, I was traveling from central South Dakota
Speaker 1: the lower Rule, the Indian Reservation. So is that where
Speaker 1: you had the drinks that morning, early morning hours from
Speaker 1: three or Okay, are you in the military? Wasn't the
Speaker 1: military is Marines. I have something I need to disclose
Speaker 1: to you guys right now. I'm on a dipend. I
Speaker 1: suspended in position right now for grantly striving charge. Okay,
Speaker 1: And that was actually a d I was dealing with
Speaker 1: a suicide of one of my brothers in arms at
Speaker 1: the time, and I was mourning that death, and that's
Speaker 1: why I lost control of my helped at that point.
Speaker 1: This incident was morning a cousin of mine and that's
Speaker 1: why I was back in the reservation and traveling back
Speaker 1: here three two falls, So I think it's a little
Speaker 1: bit of a pattern there. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: want if that matters. I mean that definitely matters. Um
Speaker 1: is there going to be like jail time because it's
Speaker 1: suspended him on this case? The offer right out of
Speaker 1: the gate, this is just a standard first d U.
Speaker 1: I does that make sense? Probably a good thing. Then, okay,
Speaker 1: all right, So what we'll do today is we can
Speaker 1: ask for the delay on your behalf so you can
Speaker 1: leave if you want. I know you've been here a while.
Speaker 1: Maybe I will stay and go. Okay, okay, some actions.
Speaker 1: All right, thanks? And that was honestly nice that he
Speaker 1: did that, because I would guess that most clients wouldn't
Speaker 1: be like, hey, already have a suspended imposition. He was like,
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you right now, I have this, which
Speaker 1: was really nice to actually have when I'm looking for
Speaker 1: a trial lawyer, I am looking for somebody who, at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, do you have a capacity
Speaker 1: to look at another human being who is separate and
Speaker 1: apart from you, to empathize with their situation and to
Speaker 1: recognize when an injustice has occurred under the rules, and
Speaker 1: then zealously argue I want them all day long and
Speaker 1: twice on Sunday. Coach Laura Rose runs the trial team
Speaker 1: and teaches classes on top of all that. This year
Speaker 1: she submitted the documents for tenure review. Dad, you got
Speaker 1: the email that I forward you last night? Right. Wanting
Speaker 1: some father daughter time, she calls her dad, who happens
Speaker 1: to be Professor Charles Rose, the third dean of the
Speaker 1: College of Law at Ohio Northern University. Oh yeah, the
Speaker 1: one about the course. But no, not one, not that one. Well,
Speaker 1: hang on, I didn't even send you the one that
Speaker 1: I wanted to send you. Let me send you this one.
Speaker 1: Charles Rose spent twenty years on active duty in the
Speaker 1: United States Army and was on the faculty at Stetson University,
Speaker 1: where he led the trial team to the number one
Speaker 1: ranking for twelve years. He also wrote the book actually
Speaker 1: lots of books on trial advocacy, including one he co
Speaker 1: authored with his daughter Laura. How's the inter of your
Speaker 1: semester wrapping up? You know, we're all busier than we
Speaker 1: have any right to be, uh, particularly the trial team,
Speaker 1: because we're not done with competitions except for National Trial League,
Speaker 1: which we've got going on. I love my dad a
Speaker 1: great deal He's my hero. He's he's who I want
Speaker 1: to be when I grew up. I've modeled my career
Speaker 1: after him. I have very fond memories of when Daddy
Speaker 1: started law school. I started kindergarten. So daddy and daughter
Speaker 1: used to get up in the morning and go to
Speaker 1: school together. Right, he would drop me off at school,
Speaker 1: and my whole life it's kind of been like that.
Speaker 1: He's provided me with unending opportunities. Well, and you see
Speaker 1: you see that habit in in some of the competitions
Speaker 1: where people are picking one factor two facts and over
Speaker 1: dramatizing it and relying on that. I just I don't
Speaker 1: know how to square that with the obligation that we
Speaker 1: have to educate lawyers. Right Like, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: teach my students how to act. That's not my job.
Speaker 1: My job is to teach them how to advocate. I
Speaker 1: get them. But if you'll think about it for a minute,
Speaker 1: you have to train them to deal with the person
Speaker 1: who's all show and no go, so that when they
Speaker 1: run into that in the real world, they know how
Speaker 1: to take them apart. So how do we how do
Speaker 1: I fix it for next semester? My instinct is to
Speaker 1: keep teaching the way that I have been teaching and
Speaker 1: have the conversations with the students that I've been having
Speaker 1: in terms of this works, this doesn't. This is why
Speaker 1: we have to cool the emotion out of these Midwestern
Speaker 1: kids at a greater level so that it comes through
Speaker 1: the camera. Because what's happening is is that they tend
Speaker 1: to be selfis facing, standing upright, polite young men and
Speaker 1: women right, and then you put the lens of the
Speaker 1: camera on top of that, the camera creates this barrier
Speaker 1: to communication. Well, I got a navy blue suit with
Speaker 1: a nice blue charve tie, so I think I'm looking
Speaker 1: pretty presidential. To give Tyler another shot at mock trial,
Speaker 1: coach Laura Rose has put him on a team of
Speaker 1: two ells for the Capital City Challenge, hosted by American
Speaker 1: University in Washington, d C. And held this year online.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of schools in it, schools from the
Speaker 1: East that we we saw last semester in the Hofst competition,
Speaker 1: some pretty big time schools, So we're going to give
Speaker 1: them our best, but we're kind of represent the Midwest
Speaker 1: here in South Dakota. The case is set in the
Speaker 1: fictional city of Washingtonia and it gives Tyler another workout
Speaker 1: with medical details. The USD team is defending Dr Pierre Lagren.
Speaker 1: The doctor's crime he impregnated a patient with his own
Speaker 1: seamen instead of her husband's, which meant their new baby
Speaker 1: was not a bill and marrow match for their older
Speaker 1: child who was dying of leukemia. I will be doing
Speaker 1: a cross examination of the state's witness, the mother or
Speaker 1: father in this case, and then I'll be doing a
Speaker 1: direct examination of Pierre la Grand. He's the doctor that's
Speaker 1: on trial being charged with second degree murder and fraud.
Speaker 1: So hopefully he kind of comes across as human or empathetic.
Speaker 1: But this guy is a real tough character, very high
Speaker 1: on himself, and didn't think he did anything wrong in
Speaker 1: our practice. They said, I have to tone it down
Speaker 1: a little bit because I'm crossing a mother that just
Speaker 1: got lost her daughter and they're blaming the doctor. So
Speaker 1: I have to show some empathy today and I can't
Speaker 1: hit her too hard. Hey, can you get up here, man?
Speaker 1: Call me look good? Yes, we guess turned this on
Speaker 1: good evening, your honor. My name is Damian Basin, and I,
Speaker 1: along with my co counsel, Tyler Veleski, represent the defendant
Speaker 1: Dr Pierre Legron. In today's case, Howard University challenged South Dakota.
Speaker 1: We have a few stipulations that we would like to
Speaker 1: bring to the course attention. That is also in the
Speaker 1: case finals the Howard team. It's a formidable opponent. Christ Boy.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about your daughter, Emma?
Speaker 1: They do the direct exam of the mother in the
Speaker 1: case she lost a daughter. Course, Emma, she was an
Speaker 1: olden child. I mean, just look at her away, her
Speaker 1: hair goes down and her bow and she brought so
Speaker 1: much happiness to our lives. But now that she's gone,
Speaker 1: it's just a feeling of being incomplete. And why is
Speaker 1: Emma gone? That she just stated she unfortunately passed away
Speaker 1: when she was eight years old, and she had leukemia
Speaker 1: and didn't get a transplant that she needed. How long
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be soft with her? Hello, Mr t Boys.
Speaker 1: I know these are difficult circumstances, but I need you
Speaker 1: to bear with me so we can get through this
Speaker 1: together to find the truth. Today and he delivered you
Speaker 1: a baby, Yes, my beautiful baby boy Marcus, take your time,
Speaker 1: Mr Boy, Now you blame Dr Luke Grain for this?
Speaker 1: Is that correct? I'm not blaming, just bringing lights of
Speaker 1: the situation. We deserve justice. So you're assuming that had
Speaker 1: Dr le Grain used Martin sperm, Emma would be alive,
Speaker 1: just based on what other doctors had told me. I
Speaker 1: want to talk about. You found out Marcus was not
Speaker 1: as soon. The prosecution has them on the edge of
Speaker 1: their seats with the closing. Yes, the do Boy family
Speaker 1: wanted a baby, but they did not want the defendant's baby.
Speaker 1: They wanted a baby that could help Emma. They could
Speaker 1: have been born if he had used Mark sperm. This
Speaker 1: doctor's deadly disregard is why we are asking you to
Speaker 1: find the only verdict that the evidence supports and that
Speaker 1: justice demands, find Pierre le Grain guilty of first degree
Speaker 1: fraud and second degree depraved heart murder for the death
Speaker 1: of eight year old Emma Duke Boy. Thank you, Thank you,
Speaker 1: prosecution to the defense of a closing argument, Yes, your honor,
Speaker 1: members of the jury, the Dubois family came to Dr
Speaker 1: Legrain hoping for a miracle. They knew there was no guarantee,
Speaker 1: but they had a plan. The state just told you
Speaker 1: that Dr le Grain is not a miracle worker. That
Speaker 1: is correct. He is not a miracle worker. Dr Legrain
Speaker 1: cannot create magic out of dust. What he did by
Speaker 1: choosing to use his own sperm was he provided a
Speaker 1: chance for him, a chance that had he used Martin
Speaker 1: Dubois sperm, would have been highly unlikely. But oftentimes, members
Speaker 1: of the jury, when tragedy comes upon us, when we
Speaker 1: lose a child, when our dreams and expectations are not met,
Speaker 1: oftentimes and our grief and our pain and our suffering,
Speaker 1: we look for somebody to blame. We look for a scapegoat,
Speaker 1: because that is the easy route. And today the state
Speaker 1: has chosen. While the two l's battle it out at
Speaker 1: the Capital City Challenge, graduating three, al Matt Skinner is
Speaker 1: cleaning out his desk at the Public Defender's Office, I'd
Speaker 1: be over, should we? Uh? Do you are tradition for
Speaker 1: the last time? Over to the source all my copies
Speaker 1: for everybody since I made Matthew all Hart. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like a newborn bird who just has his wet,
Speaker 1: stubbly little feathers, but you think he can fly. Just
Speaker 1: kick him out of the nest. Run a day in
Speaker 1: the life of well, I suppose it's about that time. Huh.
Speaker 1: I'll keep you posted on that suppression and then if
Speaker 1: it does get appealed or whatever, or if it does
Speaker 1: have a trial, we'll probably peel you in and have
Speaker 1: you come second chair across some more cops. All right,
Speaker 1: hopefully it'll be an actual turn. Yeah, all right, man,
Speaker 1: Well walk you out here. I'm sure I'll stop by.
Speaker 1: I gotta turn this into Tracy up the old time sheets,
Speaker 1: last one. Are you still here? Did a did a
Speaker 1: coffee run, But I'm out. Thank you for the semester
Speaker 1: and everything. P. D o Ver the summer past two
Speaker 1: summers is great. I learned a lot. We did a
Speaker 1: trade job today. Thank you. So we appreciate everything. Thanks
Speaker 1: for everything. I appreciate it. We'll see you later, all right, man,
Speaker 1: we'll see you. Yeah. I forgot my bag in your try.
Speaker 1: We gotta jump on a zoom in with Rose. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to get us on it right now. Okay, just
Speaker 1: told me what yea is she about Ray Ripple's apart.
Speaker 1: I thought we did good. Yeah, well she's gonna yell well,
Speaker 1: at least this guy is not going to jail because
Speaker 1: it's not a real case. Back on campus, the South
Speaker 1: Dakota team had good responses from the judges, and then
Speaker 1: Mr MOLLSQUI you have a really great natural presence and
Speaker 1: and like I mean, I don't know if it's improvisation,
Speaker 1: but it feels like like, especially over zoom, it's so
Speaker 1: hard not to feel like everyone's just like hello, Miami
Speaker 1: is Kyl and you know, and I thought you had
Speaker 1: a really great way of being able to show like
Speaker 1: a natural presence and responding to witnesses in a great way.
Speaker 1: And a great job, and good luck for the rest
Speaker 1: of the round, Thank you, thank you. But they are
Speaker 1: anxiously awaiting feedback from their toughest critic. I think the
Speaker 1: round overall went particularly well. I thought you both were
Speaker 1: deadly on cross examination in terms of overall skills. One
Speaker 1: thing that I want to talk about in particular, Tyler,
Speaker 1: you're closing the line. Dr le Grain is not a
Speaker 1: mirrable worker, and you cannot create magic out of dust.
Speaker 1: That was a beautiful life, that was beautifully, beautifully dead.
Speaker 1: But what I need from you, you've got to get organized,
Speaker 1: and you've got to pick where you're sticking your ending tomorrow.
Speaker 1: We'll get it. We'll get if I get to go
Speaker 1: to it's gonna better tonight. When you're not gonna sleep,
Speaker 1: because you're not going to sleep no matter what I
Speaker 1: tell you. And perhaps you should pick the path. You
Speaker 1: gotta pick for like three things that you're going to
Speaker 1: spend your time on. And then you got to plot
Speaker 1: out that last paragraph with that American flat behind you.
Speaker 1: I should see it start waving in non existence South
Speaker 1: Dakota wind. I should see it blown like it's down
Speaker 1: on the damn rariy in the middle of the winter, Tyler.
Speaker 1: And I'll get it. I'll get it. I'll get it good,
Speaker 1: good because you can. Because guys, there was some true
Speaker 1: brilliant throughout this entire trial from both of you and
Speaker 1: all of the skills. Okay, look you walked into the
Speaker 1: room and you said, yeah, we can do this too,
Speaker 1: and you refuse to be denied. The fact that you
Speaker 1: got complimented on your evidentiary arguments is a big deal
Speaker 1: at these competitions. Shake off whatever it is that you're
Speaker 1: beating yourself up about in your head, because I can
Speaker 1: see it on both of your faces. Knock it off. Well,
Speaker 1: we thought this was going to be a bunch. And
Speaker 1: Professor Rose, look, you want me to do the part
Speaker 1: where I where I show you at I can chew
Speaker 1: you out on I think you know what The format
Speaker 1: for objection is objection legal basis. That is your rule, analysis, conclusion.
Speaker 1: You know what that is. You spent all that semester
Speaker 1: doing an evidence. It's like there's a method to demandness, gentlemen.
Speaker 1: It's like there's a reason that we argue things in
Speaker 1: class the way that we did. I want you to
Speaker 1: focus on the hind points. I want you to fo
Speaker 1: was on the great things that you did. This is
Speaker 1: a learning experience. We are learning and we are growing.
Speaker 1: You hold your own against Howard. You should be proud
Speaker 1: of that. Now what do you all need to do?
Speaker 1: You need to go to the hell of then you
Speaker 1: sho got to howl around tomorrow against Georgia, But for
Speaker 1: tonight should be proud. You should be proud of the effort,
Speaker 1: and you should be proud of about you pushed the
Speaker 1: work that you won't put into This is clear, thank you.
Speaker 1: None of us gets through life, so everybody is standing
Speaker 1: on the shoulders of the people that came before them.
Speaker 1: I caught up with Coach Rose a little later that day.
Speaker 1: You and I both know anybody could be an advocate,
Speaker 1: but not everybody could be a trial lawyer fair. You
Speaker 1: have to learn to be able to spot what's going
Speaker 1: on in your case and here that moment when the
Speaker 1: jury kind of shifts and you can feel that moment
Speaker 1: where they've made a decision about something and lean into
Speaker 1: that thing that they've made a decision about because it's
Speaker 1: working for you. That's advocacy, the ability to adjust in
Speaker 1: to communicate on this very human level about these very
Speaker 1: human subjects so that we can continue to speak truth
Speaker 1: to power and protect democracy. My students always laugh at
Speaker 1: me because they say that I like to get on
Speaker 1: a soapbox about that, but it's the truth. The American
Speaker 1: trial system is the thing that stands in the way
Speaker 1: of the government and corporations being able to run ramshot
Speaker 1: over people. As Tyler and the team pack up for
Speaker 1: the day, they realize this maybe their last tournament of
Speaker 1: the year. She wasn't too bad. I knew she was
Speaker 1: going to call us some criticism there. It was well deserved,
Speaker 1: but she said we had moments of brilliance, so I'll
Speaker 1: take it. Yeah, I'm always gonna Monday, you know, always
Speaker 1: look back and think of glad I've done better. But
Speaker 1: I'm exhausted right now. I feel like I gave it everything.
Speaker 1: We're all two else as well. But even with that,
Speaker 1: the one thing I think everyone said is, I mean
Speaker 1: we held our own with a very good team, and
Speaker 1: Howard basically said, hey, we want to go up against USD.
Speaker 1: For real reason they challenged us was because they knew
Speaker 1: that they thought they could push us around, and I
Speaker 1: think we should because we're the under doll. Hey, if
Speaker 1: you're gonna call out, you know, the University of South Dakota,
Speaker 1: we're gonna stand around. We're gonna hold it around against anybody,
Speaker 1: you know. Coach Rose talks about South Dakota nice out
Speaker 1: on the prairie. Folks will play hardball if they have to.
Speaker 1: Years ago, before leaving for Harvard, the young Ron Veleski
Speaker 1: decided to go for a bike ride. I don't travel
Speaker 1: as much as I used to. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I'll ever have the opportunity to do that. Foot on
Speaker 1: Biggert soil of the standing rock, we'll see. I had
Speaker 1: to do the idea of riding my bicycle from here
Speaker 1: on to the Black Hills, and a good friend of mine,
Speaker 1: whom I played football and basketball against in high school,
Speaker 1: we decided we get ten speed bicycles and leave from
Speaker 1: here on South Dakota and ride our bikes to uh
Speaker 1: Rapid City. And we did. We made it four days
Speaker 1: and we toured around out there. We got a little
Speaker 1: tired of of biking, so he decided to take a
Speaker 1: bus home. I decided to ride my bike home. But
Speaker 1: before I rode my bike home, I decided that I'd
Speaker 1: gone a little hitchhiking tour. And I did hitchhike up
Speaker 1: to the reservation and I visited my mother and we
Speaker 1: spent some time together before I came back and left
Speaker 1: for college. I did reconnect with my mother in that respect,
Speaker 1: and that was the first time. I also spawned my
Speaker 1: father sixteen. I guess seventeen when I saw my father
Speaker 1: first met him. That's another whole story. We don't have
Speaker 1: time for all that, just having me disteystyst Disney shot.
Speaker 1: That's next time on class Action. Class Action is a
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio and Sound Argument, Created, produced
Speaker 1: and edited by Kevin Huffman and Lisa Gray. This episod so.
Speaker 1: It was written by Wendy Nardi. Executive producers are Taylor
Speaker 1: Chakogne and Katrina Norville. Sound design, editing and mixing by
Speaker 1: Evan Tyre, and Taylor Chakoy. This episode had additional fuel
Speaker 1: production by Paul Ebsen and Malia Lukomski. Additional editing by
Speaker 1: Carl K. Robinson. Archival audio provided by Victoria Wits in
Speaker 1: South Dakota Public Broadcasting. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your favorite shows.