Speaker 1: Troy Coleman split his formative years between California and the
Speaker 1: middle class Philadelphia neighborhood of Mount Airy, but while in Philly,
Speaker 1: he attended a rough high school in Germantown, where he
Speaker 1: met Byron Johnson, Kareem Nobles, and Darren Keith Johnson. After
Speaker 1: Troy graduated, Byron and Kareem were the muscle behind a
Speaker 1: cocaine operation that they all ran out of Troy's apartment. However,
Speaker 1: a drug drought in the summer of nine stimulated desperate
Speaker 1: behavior all over Philly, and while Troy was away in
Speaker 1: Atlantic City on September, Kareem allegedly set up a deal
Speaker 1: with two men, Kevin Jones and Arthur Sanders. Now. According
Speaker 1: to Sanders, he waited down the block while Kevin Jones
Speaker 1: drove to Troy's apartment in his gray Dodge with forty
Speaker 1: dollars to buy cocaine. Nearly two hours later, Sanders claimed
Speaker 1: to see two other men driving away and Kevin Jones's
Speaker 1: great Dodge, a light skin driver and a darker in
Speaker 1: passenger wearing a hat with the brim pull down low.
Speaker 1: Kevin's body was eventually found in the gray Dodge. Sanders
Speaker 1: agreed that Troy's photo looked like the passenger with Sanders
Speaker 1: shaky I d and the coerced and incentivized testimony of
Speaker 1: Darren Keith Johnson. Troy was sentenced to life in prison.
Speaker 1: Despite Darren's recantation and Byron Johnson's two thousand nineteen confession
Speaker 1: to being the actual passenger in the Gray Dodge that day,
Speaker 1: Troy continues to serve life for a crime for which
Speaker 1: he was not even in Philadelphia to commit. This is
Speaker 1: wrongful conviction with Jason Flom. Welcome back to wrongful conviction
Speaker 1: with Jason Flom. That's me And today we have a
Speaker 1: story that I think is going to rock your world
Speaker 1: in a in a different kind of way, right because
Speaker 1: the person that we're interviewing today, Troy Coleman, has been
Speaker 1: in carcetrated for thirty one years in Pennsylvania for a
Speaker 1: crime he didn't commit. That being said, he wasn't a
Speaker 1: choir boy, not some of the people we have on
Speaker 1: the show. We're literal acchoire people before they were arrested.
Speaker 1: But he is innocent of this crime. He wasn't even
Speaker 1: the same city when it happened, or state for that matter.
Speaker 1: So Troy's on the phone from prison. Troy, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: glad you're here, but I'm sorry you have to be
Speaker 1: under these circumstances. Good. How are you? I'm good? Thank you?
Speaker 1: And with Troy is Jerry Brown, not the former governor
Speaker 1: of California, but an esteemed attorney from Philadelphia. Thank you
Speaker 1: for joining us on the show today, Jason, my pleasures.
Speaker 1: Let's go back. Troy. You grew up in a middle
Speaker 1: class environment, right. I grew up in Mountary, Philadelphia, which
Speaker 1: is a middle class neighborhood, and I was blessed to
Speaker 1: live with my grandmother, who was well off. We had
Speaker 1: a beautiful whole bee bedroom home. And you know, everyone
Speaker 1: who came from that home came to be very successful,
Speaker 1: although with the private school even my father. And my
Speaker 1: father moved to California, and when he moved to California,
Speaker 1: I was going back and forth from California to Philadelphia
Speaker 1: from my grandmo house, which California school curriculum, our Junia
Speaker 1: High curriculum was equal to a high school curriculum here
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia. But you know when I came back to
Speaker 1: high school here in Philadephia, Germany Town High School, I
Speaker 1: was looked at this kind of dirty I guess, you know,
Speaker 1: because of the academics. I guess that we came with
Speaker 1: versus we was over here in Philadelphia, and you know,
Speaker 1: you try your best to fit in and you want
Speaker 1: to be accepted. That's where a lot of my demise
Speaker 1: came from. When I've gotten with drugs, not needing to
Speaker 1: didn't have to. You know. Again, my family was well
Speaker 1: to do, however, you know, just to sit in and
Speaker 1: be a part of this particular neighborhood that was in
Speaker 1: the German town, which is a little bit um. It
Speaker 1: wasn't a good lifestyle they lived, was little more lord
Speaker 1: class area. So when I started boxing the day, being
Speaker 1: down there in the gym, that's how I met a
Speaker 1: couple of them guys from around the neighborhood. After that,
Speaker 1: subsequently I gotten fib with them with the about the
Speaker 1: age of seventeen sixteen, we started out one of the quarters.
Speaker 1: So that's when it began. So this must have put
Speaker 1: you on the radar of the local police. And we
Speaker 1: know that in that time and place, this was a
Speaker 1: culture that it started with Frank Rizzo, who as the
Speaker 1: police chief in Philadelphia from six to seventy one. The
Speaker 1: legacy of brutality and corruption is widely known, and it
Speaker 1: thrived in the police department after he became mayor. Really
Speaker 1: crazy that that guy became mayor, but seventy eight and
Speaker 1: they were just beating the ship out of everybody back then,
Speaker 1: and it's really, uh, it's crazy that this was a
Speaker 1: major American city. So, Jerry, you were a college student
Speaker 1: at the University of Pennsylvania at that time and you
Speaker 1: experienced or at least aware of this. Right, this is
Speaker 1: not hyperbole, right, Oh no, if you had a little
Speaker 1: bit of long hair like I did, you every time
Speaker 1: you walk down the street at night, you were afraid
Speaker 1: that you were going to stop the hassle by the police.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure for people of color it was much worse.
Speaker 1: In my research, I mean, these were in the thirty
Speaker 1: ninth Districts, right, a section of North Philadelphia, which was
Speaker 1: a working class, poor black neighborhood. Um police routinely made
Speaker 1: false arrest, planted drugs, robbed victims, and filed bogus reports
Speaker 1: to cover up their actions. So all of this is
Speaker 1: known now, it's been documented. This is not us just
Speaker 1: having a you know, this is a trip down a
Speaker 1: very ugly memory Lane right here. In fact, there were
Speaker 1: fourteen hundred convictions that were overturned due to the thirty
Speaker 1: ninth district. But they're not the only ones there. There
Speaker 1: was the one squad cases, the five squad cases. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's been a history in Philadelphia, you know, and then
Speaker 1: in the nineties you have one of the cops that
Speaker 1: was involved in this case, Martin Devlin. The number of
Speaker 1: cases have been overturned because of him. It's a very
Speaker 1: sordid history. Right. So this of course brings me back
Speaker 1: to another person who was Romphick Victor has been on
Speaker 1: our show, Tony right when, which was ironically the same
Speaker 1: cop that was involved in Troy's case, Martin Devlin. And
Speaker 1: in the article in Rolling Stone magazine about Tony's case,
Speaker 1: there was a pool quote that said that in the nineties,
Speaker 1: eighties or nineties, a black man had a better chance
Speaker 1: of getting justice in Philadelphia, Mississippi than in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: So let's go to that, and of course, Troy, this
Speaker 1: of course, what led up to this, I think indirectly,
Speaker 1: is the fact that you were involved, as you've been
Speaker 1: very honest about, in the cocaine business. Can you tell
Speaker 1: us about that and the people that we're working under
Speaker 1: you at the time because they come to play a
Speaker 1: role in your wrongful conviction. Well, when we got involved,
Speaker 1: there was a couple of guys from that neighborhood, particularly
Speaker 1: down Grocer Street, and this is as he's called the jungle.
Speaker 1: Some of the guys that's involved, Barra Johnson, Barren, Keith Johnson,
Speaker 1: Raymond Nobles and his street me was Kareem. My street
Speaker 1: meame at the time was cosine with his was with
Speaker 1: our his Kareem. So he was an older guy, he
Speaker 1: just got out of jail and all this time everybody
Speaker 1: looked up to him as the tough g highest and
Speaker 1: so forth. To me, it was like comparative that I
Speaker 1: get him involved and someone for the muscle as well
Speaker 1: as Byron. So you had Byron Johnson, Darren Johnson and
Speaker 1: Kareem Nobles where your underlings. They worked for you. Yes,
Speaker 1: I guess my little until that being involved in that
Speaker 1: allowed me to shoot up fast. So I had a
Speaker 1: little apartment down in mar Street, Lashki Town is what
Speaker 1: they called Aaron, But we had apartment in Pulaski Town.
Speaker 1: There was just for you know, fun, dealing with the
Speaker 1: drug stuff. Girls and all that. The Raymond Nobles Kareem
Speaker 1: was asked the standing in my part, why live in
Speaker 1: Mount Area? I still had that place in borrowing the
Speaker 1: keys to the apartment, careen that keys to the apartment
Speaker 1: so people have access to it. At that time, I
Speaker 1: was driving BMW's, had a nice amount of money and
Speaker 1: I was okay. However, these guys that were working for me,
Speaker 1: they were okay until a drought came intenighty nine. That's
Speaker 1: route is when there's spoke drugs, particularly cocaine developble at
Speaker 1: that time in the city where it could be purchased
Speaker 1: at so and this was a well known time because
Speaker 1: homicidally rose significantly at that time and it was real back.
Speaker 1: So when this drought came about, I was okay. These guys,
Speaker 1: I didn't have anything for him. So they actually ran
Speaker 1: them up for lack of ATLI. They just ran them
Speaker 1: up and was just do all kinds of place stuff
Speaker 1: and this thing in particularly what this ground happened. Myself
Speaker 1: and another gentleman by the name of Richard Crawford that
Speaker 1: morning of September twenty six, we went to Atlantic City.
Speaker 1: And when I was in Atlantic City, I think I
Speaker 1: had no more than nine ounces of cocaine left in Actually,
Speaker 1: you know, trusted tween to deal with that when I
Speaker 1: was gone. And when we get to the city that
Speaker 1: morning was gettable in taking insights, you know, shopping, talking
Speaker 1: all that other stuff to girls whatever. So I was
Speaker 1: very intoxicated. I wasn't willing to drive back to the city,
Speaker 1: so that night we checked into hotel. Okay, so you
Speaker 1: were in Atlantic City having fun, intoxicated, so drunk in fact,
Speaker 1: that you had a hard time even remembering which hotel
Speaker 1: you checked into and under what name. And the craziest
Speaker 1: thing is that the state eventually used your own shaky
Speaker 1: memory to impeach you. But it's so twisted because they
Speaker 1: actually presented evidence that was exculpatory because it differed from
Speaker 1: your memory that you had in fact stayed at Valley's
Speaker 1: under your own name. I mean, after all, why let
Speaker 1: evidence of you being in Atlantic City get in the
Speaker 1: way of prosecuting a man we now know and I
Speaker 1: think they knew that him was innocent. That should have
Speaker 1: been the end of this podcast right there, but it's not.
Speaker 1: So the crime itself. Back at the Apartment of Philadelphia
Speaker 1: on September, Kareem set up a deal with Kevin Jones
Speaker 1: and Arthur Sanders. According to Sanders, he and Kevin Jones
Speaker 1: arrived in the area of the apartment in separate cars
Speaker 1: around one thirty pm with forty dollars to buy cocaine. Now,
Speaker 1: Arthur Sanders mentioned at the first preliminary hearing of this
Speaker 1: trial that he was going to buy this cocaine from Kareem,
Speaker 1: not Troy or your street named Kassim, but Kareem, which
Speaker 1: is why this case was initially thrown out as it
Speaker 1: should have been. But nonetheless here we are, all these
Speaker 1: years later. So again, according to Sanders, Jones continued down
Speaker 1: the street in a gray Dodge alone while Sanders waited
Speaker 1: down the block. Then, about an hour and a half later,
Speaker 1: Sanders allegedly saw two men driving the gray Dodge passed him,
Speaker 1: a light skinned man driving and a darker skinned man
Speaker 1: with the brim of his hat pulled down low in
Speaker 1: the pastor's seat. That night, the Jones family came to
Speaker 1: Troy's apartment armed looking for Kevin Jones. They threatened Troy's girlfriend.
Speaker 1: The apartment was searched, but alas no Kevin. So at
Speaker 1: this point, Troy, you didn't know it yet, but you
Speaker 1: were in a lot of trouble, and I don't mean
Speaker 1: what the cops. The cops actually kind of inadvertently saved you.
Speaker 1: I got that Philadelphia. That next day, I was stopped
Speaker 1: by the police. You had my license and registration, everything
Speaker 1: was legit. But they found a bag of marijuana in
Speaker 1: the car. And that might have been a good thing,
Speaker 1: because I got arrested that evening when I called home,
Speaker 1: and that's when I heard everything, everybody saying, you know,
Speaker 1: these guys are looking for you. Did you stay then?
Speaker 1: And when it came it so when I was built out,
Speaker 1: my girlfriend at the time as well as my mother,
Speaker 1: had badge in the car in a ticket for me.
Speaker 1: And that's that that That very next day, I was
Speaker 1: in California. Okay, So even though you had nothing to
Speaker 1: do with this, you had to leave town just to
Speaker 1: be safe in California, at least for now. And at
Speaker 1: this point the cops aren't even involved yet. And we
Speaker 1: find out much later that kareem. Of course, the Kareem
Speaker 1: was Raymond Nobles, killed Kevin Jones and got Byron Johnson
Speaker 1: to help him dispose of the body. These are the
Speaker 1: two men that Arthur Sanders allegedly saw rolling by him
Speaker 1: in the Gray Dodge, but we don't find that out
Speaker 1: until much later. Now, between the time of this crime
Speaker 1: and when it's investigated, Kareem Raymond Nobles died. Now, call
Speaker 1: me crazy, but it just might have been the Jones
Speaker 1: has had something to do with that. So anyway, now,
Speaker 1: November twenty one, the police discovered Kevin Jones's body in
Speaker 1: the trunk of the Gray Dodge and the john wanna
Speaker 1: make her parking lot in Abington Township. The body was
Speaker 1: bound with electrical cord, blankets, sheets, and some instulation. By
Speaker 1: that time, it was badly decomposing, but it's clear that
Speaker 1: his face had been struck with a blunt object several
Speaker 1: times and then one, and this is important, one hard contact,
Speaker 1: high velocity gunshot wound was the cause of death. And
Speaker 1: we'll get to why that's important. Later. So anyway, the
Speaker 1: investigation begins, and initially after being pressured by both the
Speaker 1: Jones family and the notoriously corrupt detective Martin Devlin, Arthur
Speaker 1: Sanders complicated Troy. According to him, never seen Troy before,
Speaker 1: and he's sitting there waiting for now and have suddenly
Speaker 1: a car comes by. Now when you I mean just
Speaker 1: logically when you think about it, the suddenly you see
Speaker 1: a car. First of all, you go, you know, that
Speaker 1: car looks familiar, and then in your mind you go, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that looks like it's Kevin's car. And then he looks
Speaker 1: at the driver and says, that's not Kevin. It's a
Speaker 1: light skinned guy. And then he looks at the passenger
Speaker 1: who has his hat over his head, and he's able
Speaker 1: to identify him. Now, all this is happening in two
Speaker 1: or three seconds. According to Sanders testimony, Officer to say
Speaker 1: that the passenger was approphily said at a baseball capital
Speaker 1: one pulled down over his forehead, spouts to the seat
Speaker 1: in the photo where he said, I look like the
Speaker 1: passenger putting me in the city at the time. However,
Speaker 1: I'm in Atlantic City. There's a possible adentification to me.
Speaker 1: So the inference I would take is that I'm sure
Speaker 1: somebody in the police department and Devlin certainly was willing
Speaker 1: to do something like this to create false evidence, because
Speaker 1: he's done it on multiple occasions, as you all know,
Speaker 1: and there's other cases that you didn't mention that I'm awia.
Speaker 1: So he probably said, isn't this the guy. And you know,
Speaker 1: Sanders is pretty scared to death anyway, because the family
Speaker 1: is really upset with him. This is an element that's
Speaker 1: not unwilling to use gunplay if necessary. That's kind of
Speaker 1: the background of all this and part of the reason
Speaker 1: why Arthur Sanders statement is so flaky, if you will.
Speaker 1: He's being pressured by the police to give up somebody
Speaker 1: on the one hand, he's being pressured by the family
Speaker 1: on the other. And you know, he says, yeah, that
Speaker 1: looks like the guy. Now that they are focusing on
Speaker 1: Troy Coleman, they start to focus in on his associates,
Speaker 1: one of whom is Darren Keith Johnson, who was a
Speaker 1: eighteen year old five ft three d and pounds soaking
Speaker 1: wet youth essentially who's brought into homicide who and who
Speaker 1: first says I don't know anything about anything, and then
Speaker 1: they proceed to scare the hell out of him by saying,
Speaker 1: we know you do. And the homicide cops pressured him
Speaker 1: to give a statement. They told him that if he
Speaker 1: didn't give a statement, that he was going to go
Speaker 1: to jail, that he wouldn't see his mother again. I'm
Speaker 1: sure they told him that if he went to prison,
Speaker 1: that he would be molested there because he was so small.
Speaker 1: He told him that they didn't want the dead guy
Speaker 1: Kareem Nobles. Detective Cohen said, we think that he was involved,
Speaker 1: but we want Troy because this apartment was rented by Troy.
Speaker 1: So he's scared to death and he finally gives up Troy.
Speaker 1: Darren Johnson says, yeah, Troy admitted to he had to
Speaker 1: lay somebody down. Those two pieces of evidence Arthur Sanders
Speaker 1: sort of I d and Darren Johnson, now they have
Speaker 1: enough to get an arrest. Weren't. And this is from
Speaker 1: Darren Johnson's statement about what Troy allegedly told him. And
Speaker 1: now I'm gonna quote, okay ready, quote I had to
Speaker 1: lay somebody down over some drugs. Let me tell you
Speaker 1: how I did it. I put my gun up to
Speaker 1: him and told him to give it up. I shot
Speaker 1: him two to the head end quote. How would I know?
Speaker 1: But it sure sounds like it might have been written
Speaker 1: by somebody other than the person who was saying it. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'll let your imagination take it from there. Now. Not
Speaker 1: only is this statement not specific to the victim, Kevin Jones,
Speaker 1: but it also has a very important hallmark of false statements,
Speaker 1: which is factually inaccurate information. As I mentioned earlier, Kevin
Speaker 1: Jones was shot once according to the medical examiner trial,
Speaker 1: not twice. And from what I understand, they used both
Speaker 1: the carrot and the stick to get this statement from Darren.
Speaker 1: And subsequently, and this will surprise exactly no one in
Speaker 1: our audience, he received leniency from multiple drug charges and
Speaker 1: this quid pro quo and the fact that it was
Speaker 1: hidden from the defense. It's something that Troy litigated through
Speaker 1: pro se post conviction motions, but unfortunately no avail. But
Speaker 1: the point ends up being moved here as Darren Keith
Speaker 1: Johnson has signed multiple affidavits starting in to recant his testimony,
Speaker 1: for which the prosecutor had not only threatened him with perjury,
Speaker 1: but we find out later that Darren and his mother
Speaker 1: received ominous threats from the police to stick to the
Speaker 1: original statement. However, back in Arthur Sanders and Darren Johnson,
Speaker 1: they moved forward with your arrest Troy, and and onto
Speaker 1: what ends up being really interesting preliminary hearing. Yes it was.
Speaker 1: It was murder, grobberty, conspiracy, your possession of crown. The
Speaker 1: preliminer here was equal twelve and at this slimer here
Speaker 1: in alto Sanders rightfully, I guess he slipped up because
Speaker 1: he said that we were going to see Kareem, and
Speaker 1: this is throughout the eliminary here, and that we were
Speaker 1: going to see Kareem Kareem and his Raymond Nobles. My
Speaker 1: name was not mentioned, which is probably why Judge Merryweather,
Speaker 1: it was a decent judge decided to dismiss the case
Speaker 1: because if you're going to see Kareem, that's not him. Right,
Speaker 1: Sanders accidentally told the truth, even though he had been
Speaker 1: pressured to lie. But they're not nearly done with you yet.
Speaker 1: So after Judge Merryweather dismissed the case, then it was
Speaker 1: about a week or two and then rearrested me again
Speaker 1: with the same as that information, and they switched the
Speaker 1: judges and he put it before another man I think
Speaker 1: they was Judge Ans, and he held it over for trial,
Speaker 1: and it may have ended in a not guilty verdict
Speaker 1: if you hadn't been screwed over by ed Geiger, private
Speaker 1: investigator who your own family had hired. He was supposed
Speaker 1: to go down to Atlantic City and gather your alibi defense,
Speaker 1: but instead we now believe that he never went to
Speaker 1: Atlantic City or spoke with Richard Crawford, your alibi witness,
Speaker 1: Otherwise he would have found out what the state had
Speaker 1: already discovered, that you stayed at Bally's under your own name. Geiger,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, came back with no alibi evidence
Speaker 1: and told you that your alibi witness, Richard Crawford, wasn't
Speaker 1: willing to testify on your behalf. But you don't fully
Speaker 1: get this picture until two thousand nine though, So at
Speaker 1: trial you just have your fuzzy, drunken memory of a
Speaker 1: c you thought that you had stayed at the Ridgmond
Speaker 1: and under the name Robert Irving. So when the state
Speaker 1: presents Marlene Smith, a Bally's clerk who testified to you
Speaker 1: staying at Valley's under your own name, it actually hurt
Speaker 1: your credibility and put your rock solid alibi on shaky ground.
Speaker 1: Then the state presents at least chemists Lewis Joca, who
Speaker 1: testified that the betting electrical court and installation that Jones
Speaker 1: was wrapped in matched items from the apartment, which just
Speaker 1: established the setting of the crime but doesn't necessarily implicate you, Troy.
Speaker 1: So what was presented at trial that convinced the jury
Speaker 1: that they should find you guilty of second degree murder,
Speaker 1: which of course they ended up doing. Well. I believe
Speaker 1: that it was the testimony of Derrick and Johnson coupled
Speaker 1: with the testimony of all the sentators. However, one of
Speaker 1: the things that were said in closing was that testimony
Speaker 1: pay seventh fifty one by the prosecutor. He said, it
Speaker 1: is in fact Troy was in Atlantic City, and you
Speaker 1: believe that he was still involved or he put these
Speaker 1: guys up to it, and this is that there's something
Speaker 1: that was sent to the journy. You can find them
Speaker 1: guilty of conspiracy and you know, second degree murder, so
Speaker 1: so forth, and then undefeldy murder is actually saying that
Speaker 1: as a result of that robbery a death occurred. We
Speaker 1: don't believe that he had the trick to kill, right,
Speaker 1: and that's what secondly we murdered here in uh between, Well,
Speaker 1: there's certain enumerated felonies, one of which is robbery. If
Speaker 1: you during a robbery, if murder occurs, that becomes felony murder,
Speaker 1: which is unfortunately in Pennsylvania. Even if you're convicted a
Speaker 1: second degree murder it's life, Troy, can you describe for
Speaker 1: us that awful and probably I mean, I'm guessing must
Speaker 1: have been the worst moment of your life when the
Speaker 1: jury came back in I found you guilty, he said, guilty.
Speaker 1: Was like I was a slight shock. I was. It
Speaker 1: was so shocking to me that the first couple of years,
Speaker 1: I believe we only metally. You know, we lost a
Speaker 1: lot of family. My mother died and my grandmom and
Speaker 1: my grand mama died a domino effective pain and what happened.
Speaker 1: But I just couldn't believe we are doing were usually.
Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by Paul Weiss, Rifkin, Horton and Garrison,
Speaker 1: a leading international law firm. Paul Weiss has long had
Speaker 1: an unwavering commitment to providing impactful, pro bono legal assistance
Speaker 1: to the most vulnerable members of our society and in
Speaker 1: support of the public interest, including extensive work in the
Speaker 1: criminal justice area. First, all priests to our creative getting
Speaker 1: me through this costley having that hope, uh that you
Speaker 1: know it will come to it. However, it was a
Speaker 1: time and actually to be honest with you recently when
Speaker 1: I uh, they said I was negative, but I know
Speaker 1: I was positive I was an infirmity with COVID and
Speaker 1: I was I was deadly sick. I never had a
Speaker 1: simal pain like at that time. And this is once
Speaker 1: ago pretty actual. Lord, I said, if this is I remember,
Speaker 1: good now, don't even dog no more. You see, I
Speaker 1: would you know, suicidal. But I was like, I was
Speaker 1: okay with I was okay with nine. I just pretty
Speaker 1: this at the time, and I'm not going to I'm
Speaker 1: not going to go a revenuity. And that was my
Speaker 1: period subselutely beat all the time. Restore a little hope
Speaker 1: for me. But yeah, you know, you're inspiring other people
Speaker 1: not to give up hope. So I'm glad you're here
Speaker 1: to talk about this, and I'm glad you're fighting. And
Speaker 1: I think now in Pennsylvania there's you know, this progress
Speaker 1: and and then and that should give hope to hopefully
Speaker 1: to you and many many other people who need relief
Speaker 1: in the Pennsylvania criminal system. Talk a little about the
Speaker 1: post conviction litigation, because this is a crazy I mean,
Speaker 1: like a lot of these cases are when they go
Speaker 1: on this long. I mean, it should have been reversed
Speaker 1: and you should have been freed back in ninety three
Speaker 1: that conspiracy conviction in has since been reversed the Superior
Speaker 1: Court of Pencil that in it of the self, was
Speaker 1: our reason to overturn his case and retrying me or
Speaker 1: to let me, you know, let me go. However that
Speaker 1: hasn't been the case, which is just insane to me.
Speaker 1: Without the conspiracy and being in Atlantic City, how are
Speaker 1: you involved in the murder in any degree? Well, they
Speaker 1: continue to square that circle with the two bogus witnesses,
Speaker 1: Arthur Sanders saying you were in the car and Darren
Speaker 1: Johnson saying that you confess to having to quote, lay
Speaker 1: somebody down over some drugs. So in Darren Johnson wanted
Speaker 1: to come clean and finally recanted, and he did so
Speaker 1: in an affidavit. But as we find out later, he
Speaker 1: and his mother were threatened repeatedly by the police and
Speaker 1: the prosecutor openly threatened him with perjury. So when he
Speaker 1: came to court in to affirm his recantation, he pleaded
Speaker 1: the fifth. Obviously, he would not have needed to plead
Speaker 1: the fifth if he was is going to repeat his
Speaker 1: bogus testimony. So Troy does most of his post conviction
Speaker 1: litigation pro se, meaning by himself from his president, acting
Speaker 1: as his own lawyer, trying to undermine Darren Johnson's trial
Speaker 1: testimony by proving that he had been incentivized by a
Speaker 1: deal for leniency in his own drug charges and that
Speaker 1: the defense had never been notified about any such deals.
Speaker 1: When Darren he was asked by the prosecutor, David Desideril,
Speaker 1: do you have any open cases at this time? Darren
Speaker 1: Keith Johnson said, yes, one five years pubbition. That's a
Speaker 1: direct quote. It's a testimony based three Dirty seven. However,
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to us, that was a lie. All his criminals
Speaker 1: dat he never spent a five years fish. The jury
Speaker 1: is listening to this, the jury say, oh, okay, he
Speaker 1: has five years for which okay, so he don't have
Speaker 1: any incentive to testify false against this guy because he's
Speaker 1: already been sentenced. Again, I'm gonnis to us that was
Speaker 1: a lie. Darren actually had open case at that time,
Speaker 1: which was resolved sixty on these as I got convicted.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately, so far post conviction litigation on this matter
Speaker 1: has been totally ignored. The court sided with the d A,
Speaker 1: finding him more credible than Darren Johnson. However, that's not
Speaker 1: the last we're going to hear from Darren Johnson. But
Speaker 1: first two thousand nine you find out what I had
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, that your investigator at the time of trial
Speaker 1: lied to you about not being able to find any
Speaker 1: alibi evidence in a c and your alibi witness, Richard Crawford,
Speaker 1: being unwilling to testify it. But you hired another private
Speaker 1: investigator later on, Walter P. Lee, And in two thousand
Speaker 1: nine he finally caught up with Richard Crawford. What my
Speaker 1: private investigator, Walter Lee went to school interviewed rich Crowley said,
Speaker 1: that's something that he never said to edguy. So no
Speaker 1: one never came to see me until you mean nothing much.
Speaker 1: I was witting the Atlantic City, and I would have
Speaker 1: said I was willing Atlantic City and we had a
Speaker 1: statement now, but he said that never happened. So that
Speaker 1: ended ourself was problematic for me. But now the wizards
Speaker 1: won't cify and this is something assault in significant. Crawford
Speaker 1: called from the hotel. He called home to his wife's thrill.
Speaker 1: The prosecuteor had the phone numbers and those phone calls,
Speaker 1: and a couple of the phone calls was too Richard
Speaker 1: Crawford's address or mcnaight Street in Philadelphia. They never turns before.
Speaker 1: So now the evidence is mounting and Darren Johnson re
Speaker 1: kids and they don't want to hear it. Your investigator,
Speaker 1: Walter Lee unearthed your alibi witness, shedding even more light
Speaker 1: on the state's misdeeds in this case, hiding that exculpatory
Speaker 1: evidence and ambushing you with it to undermine the truth,
Speaker 1: which was what they had already known, which is that
Speaker 1: you were in Atlantic City, not Philadelphia. However, if that
Speaker 1: alibi evidence wasn't enough for them to stop pursuing you
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety, why would have stopped them in two
Speaker 1: thousand nine or ever? So, another ten years go past,
Speaker 1: and Byron Johnson, who everyone was rightfully scared of and
Speaker 1: wouldn't think of snitching on in two thousand team had
Speaker 1: suffered a non fatal gunshot, would it. I guess he
Speaker 1: didn't want to die without having told the truth, so
Speaker 1: he finally came forward, But oddly enough, he was shot
Speaker 1: and killed the following year on juneteenth. The person who
Speaker 1: was actually in the car and the passengency of the car,
Speaker 1: Bymon Johnson, has confessed to this. At two thousand nineteen,
Speaker 1: he did come and he confessed to the Crown of
Speaker 1: disposal of the body, helped Kareem and everything else, that
Speaker 1: he was always a problem inspect who was never arrested.
Speaker 1: And there was a selling named Herb Hartison who was
Speaker 1: with Byron Johnson who had just been shot, and he
Speaker 1: got in touch with the spell of Artisan and he said,
Speaker 1: get me to somebody because I want to be able
Speaker 1: to tell the truth about this before I died. And
Speaker 1: he knew that the end was near for him and
Speaker 1: he wanted to do the right thing here. And he
Speaker 1: came and he gave a statement. Artison I interviewed him,
Speaker 1: took a statement from him. Walter Lee took the statement
Speaker 1: from Byron Johnson. Iron came in. He said that Kareem
Speaker 1: Nobles called him. He said something about moving some furniture
Speaker 1: or something like that, and he went over and he
Speaker 1: saw the dead body and Cream said, look, you helped
Speaker 1: me get rid of his body. 'll give you five
Speaker 1: thousand dollars And Byron goes, okay, I mean it's easy money.
Speaker 1: What he's gonna do is put the body in the
Speaker 1: car and drive away and leave the car out in
Speaker 1: Abington at the John Wanamaker's store, which they did Brie
Speaker 1: Johnson was actually a prompt suspect in this case, and
Speaker 1: actually Barren Q. Johnson, as he was in the U
Speaker 1: by To room and others, he made it cleared it
Speaker 1: the reason why they got there to fly against me
Speaker 1: because when I was in California, they believed that I
Speaker 1: was want to come back until everything that happened watched,
Speaker 1: I didn't know enough to tell. And he said that Byron,
Speaker 1: you know, put him up. Bryan Johnson was a very
Speaker 1: very violent guy, as Darren said, and it thinks he
Speaker 1: was good with his fists, with knives and with guns,
Speaker 1: and he was scared to death of Byron his reaction
Speaker 1: if he were to read him out. So I think
Speaker 1: that he was finally comfortable enough to come forward, which
Speaker 1: is newly discovered evidence. He was unwilling to state until
Speaker 1: after Byron died. And he said the same thing that
Speaker 1: Byron said in his statement, which was that Nobles called
Speaker 1: him got him to help him move the body. Byron
Speaker 1: and Darren Johnson essentially corroborate each other as to what
Speaker 1: happened to Earth, and so did the police because the
Speaker 1: police believed that Kareem Nobles was involved. So the two
Speaker 1: men in the Gray DIDs that Sanders allegedly saw were
Speaker 1: Kareem Nobles and Byron Johnson. Byron's confession and Darren's recantation
Speaker 1: impeached Sanders's shaky idea. The cops new Kareem was involved,
Speaker 1: and perhaps the Joneses did too, since he wound up
Speaker 1: dead before the police had a chance to nab him.
Speaker 1: This murder happened in Troy's apartment while he was party
Speaker 1: in a c Other than letting his friends use his
Speaker 1: apartment while he was out of town, there was literally
Speaker 1: nothing else that connected Troy to this crime. Troy, you know,
Speaker 1: there's no evidence that he was ever involved in any
Speaker 1: violent crimes. The one time he got arrested afterwards, when
Speaker 1: he was stopped, what did they find on a marijuana?
Speaker 1: No guns, no nothing. You could be sure that he
Speaker 1: was stopped because he was driving while black in Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: so they would have searched the hell out of that
Speaker 1: car and that's what they found. And I want to
Speaker 1: just read a quick quote here from Darren Johnson, because
Speaker 1: it's one thing for us to talk about this one
Speaker 1: said this and the other one said that, But this
Speaker 1: is from an affid David on September three, that he
Speaker 1: courageously signed, and he said quote before the trial, the
Speaker 1: police kept trying to get me to come to court,
Speaker 1: and I really didn't want to. I knew my testimony
Speaker 1: was a lie. They and the prosecutor just told me
Speaker 1: to follow the script. They even went to my mother's
Speaker 1: house and harassed her and threatened her and told her
Speaker 1: to tell me to come back to court or something
Speaker 1: would happen to both of us. That's why in n
Speaker 1: I tried to testify, but again was threatened, and I
Speaker 1: chickened out because I was told that I would go
Speaker 1: to jail for several years for perjury. I was still
Speaker 1: frightened because I was small. The public defender they gave
Speaker 1: to me that day told me to plead the fifth
Speaker 1: and I did. Not only was I small, but I
Speaker 1: only had an eighth grade education, was a whole lot
Speaker 1: less smart than him. Now I regret then not having
Speaker 1: the courage to go through with telling the truth. He
Speaker 1: goes on to say, still quoting someone might say that
Speaker 1: I'm angry with the police and the district attorney because
Speaker 1: they promised me that I probably wouldn't go to jail
Speaker 1: and then I did. That is not the truth. I
Speaker 1: keep coming back, and I'm willing to testify because I
Speaker 1: know this is the truth and this lie I told
Speaker 1: that Troy's trial has been bothering me for three decades,
Speaker 1: no matter what anyone threatens me with. Now, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to cave in. I should have done this years
Speaker 1: ago and told the truth about Byron, but I was
Speaker 1: afraid he would kill me or have me killed. I
Speaker 1: would like the opportunity to be for the court to
Speaker 1: see me in person and know what is in my
Speaker 1: heart that Troy Coleman is not guilty end quote. Other
Speaker 1: than the testimony of these two people, there's not one
Speaker 1: shred of physical evidence that ties Troy Coleman too this
Speaker 1: crime nothing. And to hear the words I just read
Speaker 1: from Darren Johnson and add that to Byron Johnson's confession
Speaker 1: where he admits to being the passenger of the car.
Speaker 1: Does Arthur Sanders is shaky? I d even matter anymore?
Speaker 1: I mean, the guy who would actually be in the
Speaker 1: Gray Dodge told us it does not. But if that,
Speaker 1: somehow is still not enough for you, consider some of
Speaker 1: the things that are known about Arthur Sanders. He began
Speaker 1: with not knowing Troy Coleman at all, then switched to
Speaker 1: he knew him from around the neighborhood. More importantly, he
Speaker 1: had Kevin Jones, patriot and keys in his possession when
Speaker 1: Kevin went missing. To be in possession of a missing
Speaker 1: dead guy's things, you're gonna want to place blame on
Speaker 1: someone else quickly. So let's say Sanders actually did see
Speaker 1: these two guys in the passing grade dodge. I've been
Speaker 1: saying allegedly this entire time, as you might have noticed,
Speaker 1: But let's just suppose for a second that it actually
Speaker 1: happened that way. Troy and Byron do resemble one another. Now,
Speaker 1: let me be clear, I'm not just some random white
Speaker 1: dude giving cross racial misidentification. Troy can back me up here, Troy,
Speaker 1: that tracks right, I will say that, Johnson. Now, you
Speaker 1: two don't look exactly like, but enough to say they
Speaker 1: look like one another. And that's while you're staring right
Speaker 1: let alone. While if one were to see a guy
Speaker 1: in a passing car behind glass at twenty miles for
Speaker 1: less than three seconds, that's if we even accept that
Speaker 1: this passing grade dodge identification actually happened. It's also entirely
Speaker 1: possible that this was a fabrication to steer the investigation
Speaker 1: and the Jones is away from Sanders and at least
Speaker 1: in the direction of Koreem and Byron. So that said, Jerry,
Speaker 1: where does this case stand now currently? I have a
Speaker 1: motion for discovery that's still open. I think I filed
Speaker 1: a supplemental in April. It's still open. The Commonwealth was
Speaker 1: going to respond to both of them, and I think
Speaker 1: that's where we're at right now from my perspective, I mean,
Speaker 1: the system has to play at itself. I think that
Speaker 1: they're so busy in the CiU, which is a conviction
Speaker 1: integrity unit, that they are just overwhelmed. They have cases
Speaker 1: and they've got six or eight, maybe ten people working
Speaker 1: on them. They're all homicides. Well, we've been seeing some
Speaker 1: really great things out of the philade of your CiU,
Speaker 1: Patricia Cummings, Larry Krasner. We know they're going to keep
Speaker 1: up the hard work. I mean, just think if you
Speaker 1: had to research and relitigate the last thirty to fifty
Speaker 1: years of corrupt cases in a place like Billy Chicago,
Speaker 1: New Orleans, trying to right those wrongs is no easy task.
Speaker 1: So your hard work is not going unappreciated here. Maybe
Speaker 1: us shining a light on a case like Troy's will
Speaker 1: help bring it to the top of their very formidable pile.
Speaker 1: So after hearing all of this, Troy, I know I
Speaker 1: want to do all that I can, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: our audience feels the same way. Is there anything that
Speaker 1: they can do? If you want to know more about
Speaker 1: my case, go to Chroy called the case dot com,
Speaker 1: everything from the confession to the conspiracy. We reverse to
Speaker 1: the weekend testimony of er Johnson to still that he
Speaker 1: received to CHOI called the case dot com to see
Speaker 1: it for yourself. Well, we'll definitely link your site in
Speaker 1: the episode bio. And with that we now go to
Speaker 1: my favorite part of the show, where I first of all,
Speaker 1: thank both of you so much for joining me here
Speaker 1: and sharing your story. And now I'm gonna kick back
Speaker 1: in my chair, turn off my microphone, and just listen
Speaker 1: to whatever else you'd like to say. No offense, Jerry,
Speaker 1: but we'll be saving the best for last our guest
Speaker 1: of honor, which means you'll be leading off. Well, thank
Speaker 1: you Jason for giving me this opportunity to address Troy's case. Obviously,
Speaker 1: there is a lot of facts and circumstances here that
Speaker 1: are extremely troubling. One of the problems is back when
Speaker 1: Troy was arrested, Philadelphia was in the midst of one
Speaker 1: of its worst homicide waves in its history. Troy was
Speaker 1: also dealing with a secondary problem in that he had
Speaker 1: a court appointed council. UH. He was also dealing with
Speaker 1: homicide police that wanted to clear cases and do it
Speaker 1: in the most convenient way because they were being pressured
Speaker 1: to do so, and therefore they used some of the cases.
Speaker 1: I've seen some shortcuts in order to achieve that goal,
Speaker 1: and one of the shortcuts is that they would pressure witnesses,
Speaker 1: and in this case, they had two very good subjects
Speaker 1: that they could pressurize. So these are the only two
Speaker 1: pieces of evidence that were the backbone and the heart
Speaker 1: and soul of the Commonwell's case. Once they've been debunked,
Speaker 1: which I believe they have been, and there's been new
Speaker 1: evidence that's come forward from Byron Johnson who said that
Speaker 1: Kareem Nobles told him that he was the shooter and
Speaker 1: asked him to help him dispose of the body. Johnson,
Speaker 1: unfortunately he's dead, but he's kind of taken the wraps
Speaker 1: off of Darren Johnson because he was scared to death
Speaker 1: of this man who was extremely violent and that's why
Speaker 1: he died a violent death. But in any way, once
Speaker 1: these pieces have been debunked, it is pretty clear that
Speaker 1: Troy Coleman is not guilty. All right, Troy, over to you.
Speaker 1: I would like to hum thank everyone for allowing me
Speaker 1: to have this opportunity, and at this time I would
Speaker 1: like to say how to be narrow guying. I mean
Speaker 1: all pretdutes to our Lord. I don't think anything is
Speaker 1: going to come to fruition in regards to this case
Speaker 1: except by the will of our creative God, the Most High.
Speaker 1: I would like to thank Jason and my attorney and
Speaker 1: uh Connor and all that was involved in this, my
Speaker 1: family who has been supported me through this. In my
Speaker 1: message or I like to have a takeaway even if
Speaker 1: you know it's just not about me, but you know
Speaker 1: at this time what got me through these years. And
Speaker 1: I want to encourage a lot of the youth because
Speaker 1: we're actually going through about with our youth today was
Speaker 1: a lot of killing and crime and all that is.
Speaker 1: I want to push education and vocational skills that's needed.
Speaker 1: I'm the founder and facilitator of a group entitled Use
Speaker 1: it's the acronymics young offenders understanding the amptual shackles, which
Speaker 1: is facilitated by myself type of Bowman and Tracy Wax,
Speaker 1: and we push forward to try to help the use.
Speaker 1: Will put between age of eighteen and through with this
Speaker 1: and all holding their education and vocational skills. I would
Speaker 1: also like the lassities like ce I Chuester, which is
Speaker 1: one of the most progressive hills right now for criminal
Speaker 1: justicory forward and this institution we have more guys who
Speaker 1: went out on a commutation, and I would like to
Speaker 1: also move back that I did file for commutation of
Speaker 1: the actual innocence per chance and who falling definite God
Speaker 1: willing they won't. But this shill has been good for
Speaker 1: and they allowed me to do this podcast and I'm
Speaker 1: very grateful for that. And I hope that other institutions
Speaker 1: can mirror what's going on at our institution here. So
Speaker 1: I would like to fake that that's even tending Islamist,
Speaker 1: the superintendent Eastern and de w Wall because these are
Speaker 1: so far progressives here that you know, push for education
Speaker 1: and vocation and allowing you know, college courses and stuff.
Speaker 1: It goes for you. It's not going to double Jews,
Speaker 1: but a very grateful for everyone. God will not get
Speaker 1: the speed about this street as opposed to you know,
Speaker 1: for the penditutory God will thank you all. Thank you
Speaker 1: for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam. Please support
Speaker 1: your local innocence projects and go to the link in
Speaker 1: our bio to see how you can help. I'd like
Speaker 1: to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburne and
Speaker 1: Kevin Warnas. The music on the show, as always is
Speaker 1: by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure
Speaker 1: to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on
Speaker 1: Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam
Speaker 1: is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association
Speaker 1: with Signal Company Number one