WEBVTT - Match Play Setups & U.S. Mid-Am Champ Brandon Holtz 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:06.920 And when I find my ball in a fried. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:11.400 Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Friday, Fridagg Fridagg, Brian 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:13.080 egg Lie, I'm about ready to run. 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:40.120 Off of the course. Welcome back to the Friday Golf Podcast. 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.000 I'm your host, Andy Johnson, and today I'm excited. Uh, 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.640 We're gonna do a little more Ryder Cup debrief. This 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.519 is mostly about just golf courses, batch play, set up, 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.480 that type of stuff. I'm talking with Joseph Leamania and 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.680 Garrett Morrison of Friday Golf. And then in the back 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.440 half I am joined by US Midam champ Brandon Holtz 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.880 from Bloomington, Illinois, who was nice enough to join right 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.440 after winning the Midam a couple of weeks ago. So 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.160 we had a lively discussion about his path, which is 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:15.880 a pretty incredible one playing college basketball and now and 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:19.919 now playing you know, midam golf and winning the US Midam. 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.479 So we talk about that, also talk a little read 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.839 stated AM's a hot topic in the amateur golf world. 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:31.320 And yeah, so this was a really fun podcast. I 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.760 hope you guys enjoy it. And before we get to 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:37.679 the podcast, let's talk about our friends over at Club Champion. 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:40.360 I'll tell you what. 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That's a free driver or iron fitting with 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.919 a club purchase using code fried egg at club champ 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.280 dot com slash Friday. All right, thanks, let's get to 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:14.160 Garrett and Joseph. All right, you know the Ryder Cup 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.799 discourse has continued. I wanted to do one more thing. 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:23.200 I thought, one aspect of the Ryder Cup, which I 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:28.040 think I could make some giant takeaways from. I think 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:33.079 it was actually very revealing. Of a few things was 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.640 the setup. So to talk about the venue set up 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:40.880 and in future venues and future venues we might like 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:44.400 to see. We're going to bring in Joseph Lamannia from 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.040 Friday Golf, who was on the grounds, and of course 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:53.320 our our architecture expert, Garrett Morrison, who was watching from home. 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.360 So guys, welcome on. How are you? 0:03:57.480 --> 0:03:58.360 How are you? Joseph? 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.440 I'm great, this is an interesting week. Good to be 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.440 on site as for part of his my second Ryder Cup, 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.440 one as a fan, now one as a member of media. 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:10.800 So it was an illuminating experience. What was it like 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:11.440 for you, Garrett. 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.760 It was not nearly as strenuous as it was for 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.560 you guys. I got to just watch from home and 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:21.800 fire off some tweets, So good week for me overall. 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:26.160 Well, let's get into it. I think like I'd love 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.600 to chat with you guys a little bit, and obviously 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:33.040 you both bring a little bit different perspective. But setup 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:37.440 was a big chatter. Obviously, Keithan Bradley made the decision 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:41.280 to cut the rough, make a very short rough, very 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:48.720 unpenalizing off the fairway, and that combined with a Wednesday 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:56.360 or Thursday rain, really created a soft setup and something 0:04:56.480 --> 0:05:01.719 I guess I've kind of crystallized on off with high 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:10.200 level professionals men, particularly Bethpage Blacks. Probably biggest weakness as 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:13.599 a golf course is it's greens. They are very boring, 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:20.279 very dull, flat. They sometimes rely on tilt, but nothing 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.280 very extreme. They kind of are situated on a lot 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.440 of times ridges but then very flat and there their 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.040 surrounds are very benign in the sense of like if 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.880 you miss the green, it's a pretty simple chip shot. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:39.320 With how soft they were, I have kind of crystallized 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:48.800 around the setup that that boring, mundane, featureless greens render 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:55.280 really bad tests of golf for professional golfers, and I'm 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.280 curious what your guys' thoughts are. 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:02.600 Well, I agree with you, and I think most of 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:04.960 where intrigue comes from in professional golf is when the 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.839 ball is on the ground, and there's no better example 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:11.520 of that than around the greens. So, especially when it rained, 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:13.800 especially when they chopped the rough down, getting up and 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.720 down was very easy. I think that did backfire on 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:18.240 the United States. I don't know how much you want 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:21.520 to get into the captaining decisions there, but not a 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.000 huge effect. I feel like people are getting a little 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:25.919 bit carried away with some of the core setup stuff 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.760 and how that disadvantaged the United States. I think we 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.560 need to keep that in perspective. But I completely agree 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:36.320 with you that you said it very well of Valhalla 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.800 that a golf course like that is asking a question 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.080 that was answered a decade ago of how high and 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:45.480 straight can you hit the ball off the tea. If 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:47.560 there's not a lot of intrigue off of the tea, 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.160 like there isn't at beth Page, then there better be 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.000 some defense in the greens. Otherwise it's just robotic golf, 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.160 so I do kind of I'm somewhat sympathetic to the 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.960 idea that Ryder Cup venues probably matter a little bit 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.760 less the test that is presented than major championships, for example, 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:05.600 because people aren't as focused on the score and the 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:08.159 shots that people are hitting. But I still think Beth 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:11.160 Page was quite underwhelming from a shot value standpoint. 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.200 Real quick follow up, how would you have set it 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:16.640 up if you were Keigan Bradley. 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.440 Well, on paper, those teams were very bounced, So I 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.120 think Keegan's talking about how he regrets it and how 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:28.960 he wished he had gone with his intuition. I don't 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.560 think people should kill him too much for the course setup, 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:35.960 but I do think of a more accuracy geared course 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.800 and a more demanding course from tee to green would 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:40.960 have been beneficial for the United States a little bit 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:43.080 more of a talented team. On paper that it was close, 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:45.480 But I think the biggest thing is he was muting 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.880 the strength of his best player, Scotti Scheffler, who I 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.080 would cater a golf course towards. You know he's going 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:55.000 to play four or five matches. You know Rory's going 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:57.320 to play four or five matches, and you know, Scotty 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:01.280 hits the ball appreciably shorter and straighter than Rory does, 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.640 so I think it makes a lot of sense to 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:06.680 build this and geared a little bit more towards accuracy. 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.120 At the same time, Cameron Young went out and played 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:15.560 unbelievable golf predominantly from the rough, and Bryson de Shambo's 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:17.320 not the most accurate driver of the golf ball, so 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.160 I think it should be kept in check a little bit, 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.080 like they're accurate drivers of the golf ball on Europe too. 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:25.520 It wouldn't have fundamentally changed the outcome of the competition, 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:27.240 but if I were Keygan, yes, I would have set 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:28.720 it up to be more of an accuracy test. 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:33.520 I think also when you combined Scottie and then some 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:39.920 other auto qualifiers Russell Henley, JJ Spahn, another one that 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:41.959 would jump to mind that was on the team was 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:48.080 Calm Morikawa. Right, those are all accuracy driven, accuracy slash 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:52.199 precision driven players, and I think that's where the setup 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:56.559 kind of let them down was that, you know, especially 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:58.920 in Henley and Spawns case, those are two of your 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:01.920 best players coming in into the event. You could even 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.120 throw maybe Harris English into that bucket, but he can 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.080 play kind of anywhere. I'd say he's kind of all 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:07.760 around player. 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.480 Tom Berriot was a very accurate driver of the golf 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:12.440 ball too, though, like just just to be clear, there 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:14.360 was accuracy on the European side as well. 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:19.560 Garrett, I'd like to hear from you kind of watching 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:23.880 ot TV, you know, and understanding the architecture of beth 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:28.199 Page what did you think? I you know, if it 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:32.440 had been firm, would we have enjoyed the short rough setup. 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.760 If it had been firm, it would have been very different, 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:41.120 I think, and that was to me the biggest factor. 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:45.079 The rof got all the attention and that was a 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:49.120 big difference. It changed the off the t characteristics of 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:51.960 the golf course quite a bit. When we see PGA 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:56.480 Championships at Bethpage Black, basically those tournaments are all about 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.400 the rough and that factor wasn't there this time, and 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:05.520 that was notable. But I think from an entertainment perspective, 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.400 the main thing, the main limiting factor for this Ryder 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:11.839 Cup was the softness of the greens and the way 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.319 that the ball just wasn't going anywhere, either landing in 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:17.439 the fairway or landing on the green. I'm not sure 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.160 they could have done much about the fairways. Listen, this 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:24.040 is an old golf course. They probably don't have the 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:27.840 single most up to date state of the art drainage 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:32.240 and irrigation system at this course, though they do a 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:36.160 really good job. The greens though, oh my gosh, I mean, 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.839 they were just it was a non factor. It was 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:44.079 truly a non factor in approach play. Wherever players were 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:48.680 playing from. It didn't matter if they were in whatever 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.959 rough was there or in the fairway. The ball was 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:54.840 landing on the green and doing pretty much the same 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.000 thing every single time. And it really took the air 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:03.559 out of the gall component of the telecast for me. 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:06.120 And that was a real shame. And it's something that 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:11.880 I wonder if is even on the PGA of America's 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.800 or Team USA's mind, or on the mind of the 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.800 European Tour or Team Europe when the Ryder Cup is 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:21.920 over there, do they think about setting up golf courses 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:26.480 for an entertainment value. I don't think they really do. 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.319 I think they think about setting it up to advantage 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.720 their team. Now, I'm not sure exactly what Team USA 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.840 was thinking in this case, how they were what they're 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.920 working theory of how this setup would advantage their team 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:44.480 was But certainly it didn't have any entertainment value about it, 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.760 and I think that should be something. Why not make 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:53.200 the product as entertaining as possible and try to marry 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.319 that with some kind of benefit to your team. I 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:01.040 would hope that some kind of service to the fans 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:04.280 would be a consideration here, But it didn't. Certainly didn't 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:05.280 seem to be the case this time. 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:12.319 Yeah. I'm shocked, honestly, and I think KEIEA Bradley was too. 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.559 It didn't rain after Thursday, and I was shocking. 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.240 Dry out What were they doing? Were they putting water 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:20.839 on the course? 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.880 They had to have been to a certain extent, because 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:29.120 those greens just never dried out. I couldn't believe how 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:34.199 soft they were, you know. And it became it became 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:38.120 a situation where it was beneficial to be in the 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.960 rough versus the fairway because of. 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.040 Because of spin, yeah, because the ball was sucking back 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.160 so much on the approaches from the fairway. 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:53.880 Absolutely, it was I you know, I've been thinking about 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.400 and you know, kind of the thesims I brought up 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:01.559 over at the top. You know, I don't think you know, 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:06.439 beth Bage's greatest asset is this topography, and it's got 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.480 some mundane pieces of the property, but it also has 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:16.640 some stunning landforms where you're playing up and in around. 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:18.079 And I think that variety is good. 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:23.520 I like that about the property and where this I 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:28.160 think the setup was kind of I kind of liked 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:32.240 the short rough from the sense of like what it did, 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:36.559 but then with the greens just having nothing where you know, 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:41.319 there was no contours that reinforced good or bad. You know, 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:46.199 where you have this beautiful land, but then the greens 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:54.160 don't reinforce any semblance of strategy on it. And I think, like, 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:58.880 I think, if they had a set of greens, and 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.920 I know that like just wave your wand and put 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.720 one of the best sets of greens in the world there. 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.640 But if they had a set of greens, let's just 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:13.520 use Augustin National set that everybody knows on that property. 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.800 With the way it was set up, it would have 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:21.560 been enthralling. And that's I guess my biggest takeaway. And 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.560 I started to think through major championships and where they 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:30.200 fall into buckets for me of like intrigue, and it's 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:36.240 why beth Page comes in solo. It's why Valhalla comes 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:42.120 in solo. You have to have great greens to test 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.280 the modern player. And this week you just could see 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.960 these guys hit it, you know, and it was amazing 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.880 to watch them make these twenty footers after twenty footer 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:56.280 and seemingly like make fifteen footers like eight footer normally. 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:58.360 But then you start to zoom out and you start 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.960 to think about it, It's like, well, there was not 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:04.000 a lot. There's not a luck going on with the greens, 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.360 so you could hit it to fifteen feet and be 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.840 okay and not be have a difficult putt. That's something 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:12.680 I think that like amplified. 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:14.360 You know. 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:17.760 I do think that it was harder if you were 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:22.720 out of position than if you were in position. You know, 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.440 you saw people struggle when they were out of position 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:30.160 to hit it close. But I just don't think the 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.520 value of hitting it close was as high as it 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:36.360 normally is because of the greens. Would you agree with that, Joseph? 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.960 Yeah, I think especially to backpins, you saw golfers really 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.160 struggling to take spin off with some of their wedges, 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:48.240 Like the eighteenth hole is an example. We're hitting that 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:54.240 way uphill hard with a wedge and taking spin off 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.160 to a back pin from the fairway was very difficult 0:15:57.440 --> 0:15:59.920 and tripping a lot of those golfers off. So yeah, 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:02.880 you saw it in the data. I know Data Golf 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:04.840 put some stuff out there about how there was virtually 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.440 no penalty. I don't know what the final number ended 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:11.440 up being, but it should be somewhere around like between 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:13.280 a tenth of a shot and two tenths of a shot, 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:15.560 which is a very small penalty if you didn't have 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:17.720 some kind of tree in your way. There was almost 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:19.960 no penalty to being in the rough. And not to 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.560 derail the conversation at all, but I think one part 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:25.600 of all of this that is probably missing from the 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:29.880 conversation a little bit into Garrett's point about entertainment value 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:31.720 should be part of how you set the golf course up. 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.120 They just hosted a huge event at Bethpage Black whose 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.880 identity is being a difficult golf course, and it was 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:44.160 as easy as it could possibly be presented. I think 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:45.840 that would be my question to both of you, did 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.880 Bethpage lose some of its identity this past weekend? Because 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.240 I think I could make a pretty serious argument that 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.720 it did, and there were fans all throughout the property, 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:56.760 saying something to that effect that I've never seen it 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.560 play this easy. It's way harder for me. Didn't we 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:01.440 lose some thing this past weekend by setting up the 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:02.320 golf course that way? 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.040 PJ said it before the tournament. He was on top 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.680 of this. He's familiar with a Long Island guy who 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:11.480 wrote a good piece for the newsletter about how this 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:15.120 was sort of a disgraceful set up for Beth Page Black. 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:20.040 I think it absolutely hurt Bethpage Black's reputation this week 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.359 that it was set up in this way and it 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.080 was so obviously easy. And it's kind of funny that 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.160 that came through so clearly in a match play event, 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:32.680 because normally we would have to use the scoreboard for reference, 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.720 the leaderboard for reference as to how easy a course 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.960 is playing. But this week it was just so obvious 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:43.240 that it was a pillow out there and it was 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.639 target practice for these guys, And I don't know. I 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:52.320 think what I take away from it is that Bethpage 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:57.280 Black is no longer big enough to challenge these players. 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:02.080 For a long time. For decades, part of the challenge 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:06.960 of Bethpage Black was its scale, its length, the size 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.720 of its topography. Even back in two thousand and two, 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:15.959 this was a challenging course in terms of its size 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.720 for the US Open field. It's not that way anymore. 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:24.960 The course is really reliant on setup to uphold its 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:30.000 reputation as an extremely difficult golf course for pros. So 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.480 when you bring the pros to this course, in order 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:36.040 to make the course seem difficult, you have to narrow 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.040 the fairways. You have to grow up the rough, you 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.399 have to make the greens firm. You have to do 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:45.000 these things because the scale of the pro's game now 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:49.000 dwarfs the scale of Bethpage Black, and that wasn't the 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:51.920 case until fifteen to twenty years ago. 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:57.320 I mean you had guys playing alternate shot, which is 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:02.000 a challenging forma head of golf, and being seven eight 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:06.080 hunder par. You know, people going out in thirty on. 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.680 The front nine, and it wasn't Fleetwood and Rory, I 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:10.600 think who went out. 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:15.680 I mean they made a boxery course of I would say, 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:17.760 like if I had to point to one hole, and 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.119 I know it's different with thicker rough, but to me, 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:25.119 what was alarming is just the clubs that people were 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:29.879 hitting into fifteen, which is widely regarded as one of 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.520 the hardest holes in the world, and you see players 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.080 even with soft conditions, getting short irons in their hands. 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.720 And that that hole, if you go back to two 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.440 thousand and two, people were hitting long irons into it, 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:49.159 and it's just a drastically different proposition and challenge. You 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.520 know that that whole closing stretch, you know, when you 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:56.959 zoom out to fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen was considered one 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.639 of the hardest closing stretches in golf. And I know 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:04.280 that seventeenteen didn't play all the way back, but if 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:08.960 you look at that stretch, eighteen people could just bypass 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:15.200 the bunkers. Seventeen was a scoring opportunity, the same with sixteen. 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.040 You know, sixteen was just a driver in a wedge, 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:23.159 and fifteen we saw way more low numbers than big numbers. 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:26.400 And I think from that sense, what you're saying about 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:32.040 the identity of best page Black is absolutely true. The 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:39.920 you know, and I think the setup is obviously one thing. 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.480 I think like what's interesting is when you go forward, 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.520 people always say match play, Oh, it doesn't matter, the 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:51.760 venue doesn't matter. But we saw this year that the 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:55.480 venue did matter in terms of how it was set 0:20:55.560 --> 0:21:00.200 up and how it recovered from from a rain event, 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:02.639 a relatively small rain event, and how it had a 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:06.160 lasting impact. You know, without a doubt, those greens being 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:10.560 so soft were created a huge, you know, an advantage 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:12.560 to be in the rough. If the greens weren't soft, 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.560 I think that advantage would have gone away. You would 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:18.639 have seen more reward from the from the fairways. So 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:24.360 I'm interested as we move forward, you know, is there 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:29.040 here's here's the lineup of of upcoming Ryder Cup venues. 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:33.160 We've got a dere Manor Max and twenty seven hazel 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:38.800 Teine National who has hired Davis Love's architecture group. But 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.680 from what I've gathered, they they there cannot be work 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:47.000 done on the golf course before the Ryder Cup because 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.879 of the contract with the PGA had it had the 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:55.120 course as is written into the language, so that will 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:57.160 not be renovated until after. 0:21:57.359 --> 0:21:58.240 It's so weird. 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:01.080 I mean, when they sc scheduled that Ryder Cup at 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:05.399 Hazelteene and the club soon after hired Love Golf Design 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:10.920 as it's consulting firm. I thought, Okay, they're going to 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:13.880 create a new Ryder Cup course at hazelteen, and they've 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:17.120 hired a pretty talented architecture firm to do the work. 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:20.000 I was excited about that, but then it comes out 0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:23.280 that they're why wouldn't they? I mean it just it's 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:25.240 so confusing. I don't get it. 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:31.359 Yeah, they're hosted the KPMG Women's next year, and so 0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:33.640 if you look at it, twenty six to twenty nine, 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:35.560 plenty of time to turn around a. 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:37.240 Golf Yeah, you could do it, and you could do 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:39.879 it in two years. You could do the thing that 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:41.600 you need to do at Hazelteine in two years. 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:44.480 But so we will get the Hazelteine you saw in 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:48.359 twenty sixteen, the hazelteen you'll see next year at the 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:51.920 KPMG Women's, the hazelteen you saw at the USM. Then 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:56.040 we go to Spain, we go to coast of Brava. 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:58.000 I don't know much about that golf course. 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:01.560 Camera roll. It's called or I might be pronouncing that wrong. 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:06.680 C am I R A L And yeah, it's on 0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:11.479 the it's it's in Cataloonia. It's a kind of an 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:14.000 hour outside of Barcelona. I did a little bit of 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:17.480 research on this course. There's some interesting stuff about it. 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:19.440 I do not think it's a good golf course. 0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:21.959 Though, sounds like one that might be a nice one 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:23.159 to go with the wife. 0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:23.320 Though, too. 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:28.040 Oh yeah, great great wine region, just like it would be. 0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:29.760 That would be an amazing trip. 0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:32.200 Sounds like one to go to the place, not for 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:32.879 the golf, but. 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:36.400 For like the food, for the restaurants and the line. Yeah, 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:38.359 go to Barcelona. 0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:43.520 And then twenty thirty three Olympic Club, which you know, 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:46.879 if I'm an Olympic Club member, after all, I just 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:55.119 saw at at Bethpage, I'm on full alert. Like I am, 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:58.320 I'm not allowing what just happened to happen at my course. 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:01.320 You're talking set up? Are you talking up? 0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:01.480 Oh? 0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:03.720 Yeah, because the Olympic Club members are so proud of 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:05.800 the difficulty of the late course. So if they get 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:08.280 if they get Bethpage blacked, they're not going to be 0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:10.080 They're not going to be happy about that. 0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:13.840 And then and then Congressional in twenty thirty seven, which 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:17.120 is a very long time away. It's eleven years. None 0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:19.560 of the players, I mean, it'd be amazing if any 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:22.200