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Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horden.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for downloading the Bengals Booth Podcast. The Reunited and

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Speaker 2: it feels so good. Addition, as NFL coaches, GMS, scouts,

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Speaker 2: reporters and fans returned to Indianapolis for the NFL Scouting Combine.

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Speaker 2: It's the official start of Draft season and on this episode,

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Speaker 2: I'll talk to three of the best draft experts out there,

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Speaker 2: Greg Cosel from NFL Films, Dane Brugler from The Athletic,

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Speaker 2: and Bucky Brooks from NFL Network. The Bengals Booth Podcast

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Speaker 2: is brought to you by Paycrep, proud to be the

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Speaker 2: Bengals official hr software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof

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Speaker 2: fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business, and community

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Speaker 2: to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best

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Speaker 2: care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official

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Speaker 2: healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's a quick reminder

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Speaker 2: that you can have the latest edition of this podcast

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Speaker 2: delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing

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Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since

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Speaker 2: rarely having to shovel. I grew up near Buffalo went

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Speaker 2: to college, and then worked in Syracuse and later lived

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Speaker 2: in Boston. There are things I miss about all of

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Speaker 2: those places. But when I saw pictures from the historic

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Speaker 2: blizzard that hit New England a few days ago, I

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Speaker 2: was reminded of something I don't miss. Shoveling. Not shoveling

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Speaker 2: like we occasionally have to do after a few inches

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Speaker 2: fall in Cincinnati. I'm talking about digging out after a

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Speaker 2: couple of feet hit the ground. I know Cincinnati isn't Maui,

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Speaker 2: but after seeing pictures from Boston where the snow on

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Speaker 2: top of cars looked like the mound of cheese on

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Speaker 2: top of a skyline chili threeway, I do feel like

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Speaker 2: I am living in a tropical paradise. Now, let's get

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Speaker 2: to football. After calling a UC basketball game on Tuesday

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Speaker 2: night in Lubbock, Texas, I headed to Indianapolis on Wednesday

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Speaker 2: for the NFL scouting Combine. Unfortunately, I can only stay

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Speaker 2: for about twenty four hours, but they were productive as

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Speaker 2: I got the opportunity to discuss the draft and the

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Speaker 2: Bengals with several of my favorite NFL analysts, beginning with

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Speaker 2: Greg Cosell from NFL Films and the ESPN matchup show.

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Speaker 2: It is always a treat to visit with my friend

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Speaker 2: Greg Cosell at the NFL scouting combine. Let's start with

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Speaker 2: the Bengals defense. It's no secret that they've struggled on

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Speaker 2: that side of the ball over the last couple of years.

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Speaker 2: Based on your film study, what stands out well.

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Speaker 3: They obviously made some significant changes to play young players

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Speaker 3: this year. Obviously, Barrett Carter became a full time starter.

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Speaker 3: I forget what week it was, but it was approximated

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Speaker 3: way through the season. I don't think he's truly a

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Speaker 3: MIC player, so it'll be interesting to see what they

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Speaker 3: do going forward. But they played, you know, Carter and

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Speaker 3: Demetrius Night. Night played up from Week one, so they

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Speaker 3: were playing a lot with two rookies. That's a tough

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Speaker 3: deal to play with two rookies, just because of the

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Speaker 3: nature of the NFL game, because it's more than just

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Speaker 3: athletic movement. You know, there's so much at the linebacker

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Speaker 3: position you have to understand intuitively. You know, they didn't

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Speaker 3: get anywhere near a full season out of Stuart, their

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Speaker 3: first round pick. I mean, I would think in an

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Speaker 3: ideal world they would love this coming season to have Miles,

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Speaker 3: Murphy and Stuart be their edge players. And you know,

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Speaker 3: we finally saw Murphy, who does have physical traits. He's long,

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Speaker 3: he's athletic. I'm not sure he's a super powerful guy,

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Speaker 3: but he definitely improved as this year went on. So

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Speaker 3: in an ideal world, it would be Stuart and Murphy

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Speaker 3: on the edge. You know, Stuart's a fascinating study. We

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Speaker 3: we probably didn't talk about him last year because we

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Speaker 3: do this before the draft, so we didn't know that

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Speaker 3: the Begels would draft him. But he's your classic case

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Speaker 3: of a guy that just everything about his physical traits

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Speaker 3: is really high level. I mean, he's almost freakish, but

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Speaker 3: as a football player, he doesn't play that way. So

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Speaker 3: now you look at him and then a coaching staff

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Speaker 3: has to think I can get him to play that way. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: he was hurt a lot, so he didn't really get

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Speaker 3: the reps that they would have liked. So it's not

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Speaker 3: as if his rookie year was a waste, but you're

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Speaker 3: in some level still starting from the beginning. Now, they

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Speaker 3: would love to have Stewart and Murphy be their edge

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Speaker 3: guys because both guys are big enough to be edgesetters.

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Speaker 3: Both guys are big enough to be run defenders, and

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Speaker 3: both guys have enough athletic juice where they theoretically could

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Speaker 3: rush the quarterback, you know, as we speak, and of

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Speaker 3: course you and I are now speaking and at the combine,

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Speaker 3: so you know, we don't know that, but that's what

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Speaker 3: they'd ideally like, and because look last year, they just

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Speaker 3: it was a struggle up front. I mean, I guess

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Speaker 3: Joseph asaih he's a free agency not. My guess is,

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Speaker 3: first of all, I don't think he's gonna command big,

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Speaker 3: big dollars, but I would bet that he's not a

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Speaker 3: big priority at this point, you know. I mean, if

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Speaker 3: it was, if he was the kind of guy that

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Speaker 3: you bring him back on a one year kind of

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Speaker 3: minimum deal, you probably bring him back. Now he won't

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Speaker 3: get big money, but I doubt he's he'll get more

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Speaker 3: than a one year minimum deal. So you know, we'll

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Speaker 3: see upfront. So the linebacker position is young players who

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Speaker 3: can they continue to get better? You know, And the

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Speaker 3: question is they draft at ten?

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Speaker 1: Correct?

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Speaker 3: You know, you know, with someone like Sonny Styles available

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Speaker 3: at ten, he's a really good prospect who's only going

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Speaker 3: to get better. Because he essentially was a safety who's

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Speaker 3: played linebacker for two years and he's he's a little

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Speaker 3: bit freakish athletically with his size and his movement, you know.

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Speaker 3: So we'll see what they decide to do on the

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Speaker 3: back end. You know, the safety position definitely needs an upgrade,

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Speaker 3: you know, the corner position. You know, it's funny. I

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Speaker 3: was having this conversation with our good buddy Jeff Hopson

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Speaker 3: and talking about, uh, Hall, that's Hall, A Hill, that's Hill.

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Speaker 3: And I remember watching him coming out of Michigan, and

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Speaker 3: you and I may have discussed this. At Michigan. He

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Speaker 3: was a safety in their base and a nickel in

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Speaker 3: their sub. But when I watched him, I said, this

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Speaker 3: guy has outside corner traits. And now it's turned out

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Speaker 3: that way. He's probably their best outside corner year player too. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: So I mean I think they'd beat They're comfortable with

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Speaker 3: Hill and Turner on the outside. The question is who's

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Speaker 3: going to play the slot, you know, because I don't

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Speaker 3: think Newton has quite worked out exactly maybe the way

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Speaker 3: they hoped, So they end up playing Uh I'm Davis, right,

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Speaker 3: I was gonna say number thirty five, right, I was

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Speaker 3: gonna say they played number thirty five, I could see

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Speaker 3: him and I could remember his name, you know, and

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Speaker 3: he's actually played better than Newton in the slot. So

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Speaker 3: is he going to be back?

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Speaker 1: They re signed him about a week ago.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so he'llby So I mean they're probably comfortable with

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Speaker 3: him if he has to play in the slot. So really,

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Speaker 3: on the back end, it's the safety position that really

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Speaker 3: needs to be addressed, you know, because when you're uncomfortable

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Speaker 3: on the back end, then then that makes the coordinator

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Speaker 3: gold and uncomfortable with pressure schemes. Because my sense is

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Speaker 3: they probably felt like they were going to be more

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Speaker 3: of a pressure defense this year with Al there and

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Speaker 3: it didn't quite work out that way. And my guess

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Speaker 3: is it's because he was uncomfortable with the back end.

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Speaker 3: Because if you're if you're uncomfortable with the back end

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Speaker 3: as a coach, you're not really sure you want to

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Speaker 3: send pressure because if one guy makes a mistake or

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Speaker 3: you don't feel that one guy can really do the

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Speaker 3: job and coverage, you know, you're afraid you're going to

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Speaker 3: give up a sixty yard touchdown. So you'd rather play

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Speaker 3: a little more conservatively and not give that stuff up

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Speaker 3: and you know, you know how that goes. Sometimes then

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Speaker 3: it looks like you're just giving up way too many plays.

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Speaker 1: Let me circle back to edge guys.

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Speaker 2: Sure, where do you stand on traits versus perduction when

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Speaker 2: evaluating edge players for the NFL?

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Speaker 3: Wow, it's a great question. I think that the trades

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Speaker 3: part needs to be parsed even further because in the NFL,

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Speaker 3: it's always nice to talk about a guy being athletic,

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Speaker 3: but in the NFL, you don't run around offensive tackles.

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Speaker 3: So when you talk about quickness and suddenness, you're talking

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Speaker 3: about first step. You're talking about off the ball. You're

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Speaker 3: not talking about, you know, the third or fourth step. Now,

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Speaker 3: bend is and flexibility is often talked about, and it's important,

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Speaker 3: but I think what tends to translate more is power.

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Speaker 3: You know, normally guys that have can do speed to power.

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Speaker 3: And I remember having an awesome conversation a couple of

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Speaker 3: years ago with Andrew Whitworth, who obviously knows more about

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Speaker 3: tackle play than I do, and he said that it's

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Speaker 3: all about power. He says, I if a guy cannot

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Speaker 3: caused me issues with power, then he's gonna really have

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Speaker 3: a hard time beating because Eventually he's got to get

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Speaker 3: through me. The guys that try to run around me

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Speaker 3: or that dance he said, eventually they got to get

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Speaker 3: past me. So it's the power part that is the

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Speaker 3: most important. And you know that's where Ruben bayin. You know,

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Speaker 3: and again, who knows how this draft's going to play out.

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Speaker 3: You know, as we speak now, probably ruben Bain doesn't

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Speaker 3: get to ten. They may not even be looking for

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Speaker 3: an edge guy. They may feel like, hey, we you know,

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Speaker 3: we drafted Murphy in the first round a few years ago,

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Speaker 3: we drafted Stewart in the first round last year. These

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Speaker 3: guys now have to produce. But someone like Ruben Bay

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Speaker 3: in his game is built on power and physicality that

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Speaker 3: normally translates because you think of a Jared Verse, you

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Speaker 3: think of a Will Anderson that normally translates. So traits

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Speaker 3: are an odd, you know, a kind of odd conversation

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Speaker 3: because you know, there's a phrase I heard a number

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Speaker 3: of years ago, which now I've taken and used it

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Speaker 3: because I think it's very visual motorcycle lean. The guys

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Speaker 3: that can really bend the edge. That's a good trait

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Speaker 3: to have. But if that's the only traits you have Like,

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Speaker 3: if that's the way you have to win, then that's hard.

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Speaker 3: Like someone like Nick Benito who's with Denver, who's developed

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Speaker 3: over the years. He came in as a bend guy,

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Speaker 3: but over the years he's developed a little more power.

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Speaker 3: You have to be able to play off contact one

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Speaker 3: way or the other. You know, whether it's running through

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Speaker 3: a guy, whether it's a great hand move, you know,

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Speaker 3: knocking his hand, whatever, you have to be able to

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Speaker 3: play off contact. And so I think that which fits

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Speaker 3: into the power part, even though some might not see

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Speaker 3: it that way. So I think that the power part

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Speaker 3: is probably number one for me. Do I love watching

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Speaker 3: a guy bend because it looks pretty. You know, It's

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Speaker 3: like the swimsuit competition for pass rushers. It looks pretty

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Speaker 3: when a guy literally can bend and gets his his

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Speaker 3: you know, his front knee literally you know this much.

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Speaker 3: It's like pitchers in baseball, those guys you know that

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Speaker 3: just take that stride and that they're this much off

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Speaker 3: the ground. Tom he was my guy. I grew up

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Speaker 3: in Queens. He was my guy. Right, that looks pretty,

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Speaker 3: But I think, you know, so that's the way I

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Speaker 3: look at at edge rushers. You have to be able

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Speaker 3: to win at some point with power and playing off contact.

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Speaker 2: I do think the Bengals are looking very carefully at

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Speaker 2: this edge rusher class for the tenth pick. They need

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Speaker 2: to improve their pass rush. It's one of the real

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Speaker 2: concrete things that Duke Tobin has said since the end

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Speaker 2: of last season. Based on everything I'm seeing and reading,

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Speaker 2: I don't see a scenario where David Bailey is still

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Speaker 2: there from Texas Tech. But maybe Ruben Bain because of

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Speaker 2: the arm length. Maybe I don't know, but you really

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Speaker 2: like them correctly.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'll say this. This is a cliched statement, but

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Speaker 3: it's true. Bain is just a really good football player. Now,

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Speaker 3: he's a sought off, hyper physical, hyper intense player whose

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Speaker 3: game is built on power and physicality. But he's not long,

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Speaker 3: and the arm length will for some teams be an

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Speaker 3: absolute issue. Because teams do studies, and I spoke to

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Speaker 3: someone who's, you know, part of those studies. There's been

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Speaker 3: no big time pass rusher at the NFL level with

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Speaker 3: arms less than thirty one inches. Now we don't know

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Speaker 3: what his all, you know, but he's probably going to

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Speaker 3: be in that range. So if he end comes in

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Speaker 3: at thirty and seven eighths. Does that mean you don't

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Speaker 3: draft him? That's way beyond my pay grade. Dan, You know,

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Speaker 3: I don't know how teams will look at that. All

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Speaker 3: I know is there have been studies done and guys

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Speaker 3: edge rushers with less than thirty one inch arms don't

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Speaker 3: brush the quarterback in the NFL the way you'd like

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Speaker 3: them to. But he's a really good football player, so

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Speaker 3: you know that becomes you know, that becomes in the

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Speaker 3: eye of the beholder. That's team specific.

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Speaker 2: I am now rooting for Reuben Bain to have thirty

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Speaker 2: and seven eighth inch arms.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he's a good player. I mean he's he's and

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Speaker 3: my guess is he's a little bit of a tempo

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Speaker 3: center because he plays super hard on his hyper physical,

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Speaker 3: hyper competitive, hyper intense. But like I said, he sought

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Speaker 3: off and the arm length will be an issue for some.

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Speaker 2: One quick update before my next question for Greg Ruben.

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Speaker 2: Bain's measurements came in the day after our conversation, and

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Speaker 2: his arm length is under thirty one inches at thirty

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Speaker 2: and seven eighths. So if you've been thinking there's no

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Speaker 2: chance he'll be available with a tenth pick, that might

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Speaker 2: cause some teams picking ahead of the Bengals to pass

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Speaker 2: on Bain, even though he had twenty and a half

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Speaker 2: sacks and thirty three and a half tackles for loss

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Speaker 2: in thirty eight games at the University of Miami, which

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Speaker 2: studied Caleb Downs, the Ohio state safety safeties typically do

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Speaker 2: not get selected in the top ten. It seems like

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Speaker 2: there's a good chance that's going to happen with Caleb

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Speaker 2: Downs this year.

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Speaker 1: What do you think of them?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's because it's not a quarterback class. Because

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Speaker 3: normally all those guys get pushed down because four or

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Speaker 3: five quarterbacks are going to go. That won't happen this year.

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Speaker 3: Caleb Downs is another guy to because who's just a

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Speaker 3: really good football player. But he's going to be five

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Speaker 3: eleven and a half give her take, one hundred and

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Speaker 3: ninety eight pounds, give her take. You know he's not

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Speaker 3: Nick im Men worry he's not Derwin James. When I

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Speaker 3: finished watching Caleb Downs, the two players that can you know,

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Speaker 3: when I watch tape, sometimes guys popping, I don't. After

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Speaker 3: I watch a guy I don't, you know, put my

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Speaker 3: head in my hands for a half hour and think,

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Speaker 3: who's he like it? Either Pops into my head or

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Speaker 3: it doesn't. And two guys immediately popped into my head.

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Speaker 3: Both very good football players, by the way, Buddha Baker

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Speaker 3: and Antoine Winfield. You know, both really good players who

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Speaker 3: can play on the back end, who can come downhill.

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Speaker 3: You know, to me, downs is that guy just a

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Speaker 3: really good football like he's going to come in He's

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Speaker 3: going to be a Day one staughter. You know. Can

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Speaker 3: I sit here and say he's going to be an

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Speaker 3: All Pro? I don't know, but he's going to be

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Speaker 3: a really good football player. You know. I can't get

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Speaker 3: into whether like the Jet shoul draft, the MAT two

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Speaker 3: or you know who knows. But he's a fun guy

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Speaker 3: to watch because he's another hyper physical, hyper competitive guy.

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Speaker 3: He's all over the field, never gives up up on

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Speaker 3: a play, makes a ton of plays in pursuit, you know,

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Speaker 3: willing to throw his body around in the right way.

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Speaker 3: You know, he he he would upgrade your secondary. But

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Speaker 3: he's not em and wary. You know, who's six y

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Speaker 3: three and eighth and two hundred twenty pounds. You know

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Speaker 3: he's not that guy.

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Speaker 2: If he's not there at ten, I'd be surprised if

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Speaker 2: the Bengals took a safety at ten, but they're almost

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Speaker 2: certainly going to take one at some point. I know

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Speaker 2: there are a couple of other ones that you like, and.

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Speaker 3: The issue is did those guys get into the end

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Speaker 3: of the first round because it's not you know, a

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Speaker 3: great you know, guys aren't going to get pushed back.

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Speaker 3: The guy who I really liked on tape was aj

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Speaker 3: Halsey from LSU. He's a rocked up, muscled up probably

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Speaker 3: six feet two, twenty to twenty five, physical as hell.

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Speaker 3: He's a tempo setter. You know. I think if you're

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Speaker 3: gonna play, can he play post safety? Yes? But I

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Speaker 3: think in if you if you play a lot more

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Speaker 3: quarters for across, I think that's his game. I mean

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Speaker 3: he comes downhill, he will hit you. In the run game,

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Speaker 3: he sees it well. On the back end. He could

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Speaker 3: definitely play and cover two. Like I said, I don't

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Speaker 3: know if he's a true post Could he play there

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Speaker 3: because he did at LSU? Yeah, But I don't know

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Speaker 3: if you draft him to say he's my post safety.

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Speaker 3: But he's you know, like I said, he's a tempo center.

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Speaker 3: He's an attitude player. He's a swagger guy, and he

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Speaker 3: will hit you. I mean, he's one of those guys

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Speaker 3: I really like his state.

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Speaker 2: Has the value and or importance of safety grown.

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Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely. And I remember the year that Steve Spagnolo

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Speaker 3: was not coaching. He called me up because he met

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Speaker 3: his wife in Philly when he was with the Eagles,

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Speaker 3: and so they had a place in Philly, and he said, Hey,

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Speaker 3: can I come in on Monday and watch tape just

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Speaker 3: so I can stay up on the league. And I said, Spags,

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Speaker 3: of course you can. You come in as many times

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Speaker 3: as you want. And we had some great conversations that year,

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Speaker 3: and he just talked about and how valuable the safety

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Speaker 3: position was in how it expands your playbook and what

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Speaker 3: you can do, because he said, hey, if my safeties

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Speaker 3: aren't very good, that squeezes my playbook. There's things I'm

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Speaker 3: not comfortable calling. And I'm not sure fans think of

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Speaker 3: it that way, Dan, But safeties have become you know,

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Speaker 3: there's so much more split safety now, where safeties have

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Speaker 3: a pass responsibility, a run responsibility, man coverage responsibilities because

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Speaker 3: essentially quarters are covered. Four becomes man if it's a

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Speaker 3: two x two set by the offense and the slot

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Speaker 3: guy runs vertically. Safeties have to match up man to man.

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Speaker 3: So safeties have a lot of responsibilities now and they

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Speaker 3: are really important pieces in the defense.

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Speaker 2: We are visiting with the great Greg co Sell. The

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Speaker 2: Bengals have devoted a lot of draft capital to defensive

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Speaker 2: players over the last four.

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Speaker 1: Or five drafts.

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Speaker 2: Shamar Stewart, Miles Murphy, Chris Jenkins, DJ Turner, Dad Sailed,

340
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Speaker 2: Demetrius Knight. Those are all first and second round Who

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Speaker 2: are the real building blocks among those young guys for

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Speaker 2: the Bengals going forward?

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Speaker 3: Wow, Well, the guys I think that have to be

344
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Speaker 3: building Let's put it that way, because you know they've

345
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Speaker 3: played up to this point. You wouldn't say, you know,

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Speaker 3: any of those guys are all pros right now. But

347
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Speaker 3: I think there's three guys that have to be building blocks,

348
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Speaker 3: the two edge guys, Stewart and Murphy and Dax Hill.

349
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Speaker 3: Because if Dak's Hill, and I think he's shown that

350
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Speaker 3: he can be a good corner, if he can become

351
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Speaker 3: an even better corner with his size, his athleticism, his movement,

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Speaker 3: then at least you know that he can match up

353
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Speaker 3: man to man. You know, maybe he's not matching up

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Speaker 3: man to of course, you have Jamar Chase, but maybe

355
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Speaker 3: he's not matching up to that level of receiver, but

356
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Speaker 3: he can match up to most receivers man to man,

357
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Speaker 3: and you can then take the safety. In other words,

358
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Speaker 3: you can make him maybe your boundary corner and let

359
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,479
Speaker 3: him play man to man depending on you know, if

360
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,800
Speaker 3: it's three by one set, which offenses play with a

361
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Speaker 3: single boundary X receiver, you can almost have Dax Hill

362
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Speaker 3: match him one on one and then have that boundary safety,

363
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 3: you know, be a poacher, be part of the coverage,

364
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,919
Speaker 3: and that really gives you so many more options in coverage.

365
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Speaker 3: So I think that those two guys that the edge

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Speaker 3: rushers because they're also big enough to be edge shutters.

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Speaker 3: I mean, Murphy and Stuart are not small little edge guys,

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Speaker 3: so they can be edge shutters in a run game.

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Speaker 3: Ideally they can rush the quarterback, and then if Dax

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Speaker 3: Hill can become that kind of corner, that gives you

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Speaker 3: so much more with what you can do defensively.

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Speaker 2: The Bengals don't have a great interior pass rusher. They'll

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Speaker 2: be looking for one in free agency if they can

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Speaker 2: find it. They're obviously hoping to get one, maybe more

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Speaker 2: in the draft if they can have you studied any

376
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,520
Speaker 2: guys in this draft class that would fit that description

377
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Speaker 2: or not yet?

378
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,920
Speaker 3: Not there yet? Like I've looked at Kayden McDonald from

379
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,159
Speaker 3: Ohio State, who's not a pass rusher at this moment

380
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 3: in time, but he's a ridiculously good run defender. Like

381
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Speaker 3: I did not think Chris Jenkins coming out was a

382
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Speaker 3: pass rusher. Now can he develop into one? That's that's

383
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,879
Speaker 3: always a hard question to answer. I'm obviously not with

384
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Speaker 3: him every day. You know, I don't know how he's coached,

385
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 3: but when he came out of Michigan, I did not

386
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 3: see him as a pass rusher. So yeah, right now

387
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 3: they don't have an inside pass rusher. I haven't done

388
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,120
Speaker 3: enough work with the tackles yet in the draft to know,

389
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Speaker 3: you know, who those guys could be.

390
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Speaker 2: We're six years into Joe Burrow's NFL career. He's been

391
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 2: healthy for three Those three years have been spectacular, but

392
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Speaker 2: obviously the Bengals are hoping that year seven is going

393
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Speaker 2: to be a healthy year for Joe. Is there anything

394
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 2: that he can do or the team can do to

395
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,879
Speaker 2: lessen the chance that he gets hurt again? Or is

396
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 2: that just football the toe?

397
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Speaker 3: You know, that's a fluky thing. I mean it's not

398
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, I mean I'm certainly not a a

399
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,679
Speaker 3: doctor or a trainer. I don't know the answer to that,

400
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,639
Speaker 3: but it's you know, even even the thing with his

401
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 3: was his wrist a few I mean that was fluky too.

402
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 3: So the wrist and the toe were really kind of

403
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 3: fluky things. God. You know, for someone like myself who

404
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 3: loves the quarterback position, I just love watching him play

405
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 3: and I just hope, you know, he's one of those guys.

406
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 3: Every week it's like, Hey, I can't wait to watch

407
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,119
Speaker 3: a Borrow. You know, I just hope you can play

408
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 3: because you know, he's one of those guys too. He

409
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 3: makes them competitive. I mean he's he's one of those guys,

410
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 3: even with potential other weaknesses, he makes the Bengals a

411
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 3: competitive team. So I just hope he can, you know,

412
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 3: play seventeen games. I mean, he's so much fun to watch.

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Speaker 2: We're several minutes into this conversation. I know you have

414
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 2: another appointment coming up shortly, but let me ask you

415
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 2: about the offensive line because normally when we meet at

416
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 2: the combine, we get to that pretty quickly. This year,

417
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 2: we've talked to Yeah, we've talked about a lot of

418
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 2: other things that have not hit the old line. Because

419
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 2: in the second half of last year they played well.

420
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Speaker 2: Should the Bengals feel fairly comfortable about their aw line?

421
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, you know how it is in

422
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 3: the league offensive honuman do get hurt. You want to

423
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 3: have depth. But I thought Mims improved. I mean, Mims

424
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 3: looks like he's going to be a good player, and

425
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 3: he's got everything you want in a right tackle. Brown's

426
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 3: left tackle right correct. I thought he played well. I

427
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,880
Speaker 3: was surprised because I did not love him coming out,

428
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 3: but I thought Fairchild played well as a rookie, you know,

429
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 3: well with a point where you think, hey, this guy

430
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 3: can be a good left guard in the league. And

431
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 3: like I said, I did not love him coming out,

432
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 3: but he played well. Carris is you know he's he's

433
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 3: not a free agent, is he?

434
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 2: Cars They re signed him to another one year extension

435
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 2: just before last year.

436
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 3: Got it. So you know, he's just one of those

437
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 3: solid centers you can line up and play with Carus

438
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 3: any day of the week. I guess Risner Dalton Reisner.

439
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:53,919
Speaker 1: He is a free agent.

440
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 3: Again, I don't know what guard's command. You know, I'm

441
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 3: not up on that. You always want to have offensive linemen,

442
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 3: you know, they certainly don't need to draft one in

443
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 3: the first or second round. I don't know who the

444
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 3: free agents are right now. I'm very draft focused right now.

445
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 3: Maybe you sign a guy just you know, a guy

446
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 3: that you hope if he has to play, can can start.

447
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 3: Or maybe he's just you know, a piece that you

448
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 3: have and you draft, you know, somebody in the fourth

449
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 3: or fifth round. You know, that's what teams do, and

450
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 3: you hope to develop them. But the old Lion as

451
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 3: the year progressed, played pretty well, and I think Mims

452
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 3: is a big key there because he's got big time traits.

453
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: Yes, he is a big key in every way because

454
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 2: he has one large human beings.

455
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 3: But he's got pretty light feet for a man that size. Yeah, No,

456
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 3: I was. I thought. I'm trying to remember. I thought

457
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 3: Mims and was just his second year, yes, right, I'm

458
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 3: trying to remember who the other guy was in that.

459
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 3: It was Mims and somebody else in that draft class.

460
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 3: So I thought had the best feet, you know, just

461
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 3: the athletic feet. Now I can't remember, but Mims is,

462
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 3: I mean, he can be a top to be honest,

463
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 3: with you. If he keeps developing. And I don't know

464
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 3: him personally obviously, but if he keeps developing, I think

465
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 3: he's got traits to be a top five right tackle

466
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 3: in the league.

467
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: Couldn't agree with you more.

468
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 2: It's certainly one of the best success stories they've had

469
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 2: in the draft in recent years.

470
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 3: So yeah, So the old line is not it's let's

471
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 3: put it this way, it's not a problem.

472
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 2: Reisner wants to be back. The Bengals have publicly said

473
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: they're going to try to re sign him. You know,

474
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 2: it always comes down to dollars and cents, But I'm

475
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 2: guessing that gets done and they return that fivesome, which

476
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 2: is always a great way to go into the season.

477
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Reisner, look, he's solid player, but I mean,

478
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 3: I would doubt that someone's throwing a ton of dollars

479
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 3: at him. I mean, he's a solid guard.

480
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 2: One of the reasons I come to Indy is that

481
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 2: I hope to have the opportunity to visit with you.

482
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: This was awesome, as always, Thank you so much for

483
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 2: your time.

484
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 3: Thanks Dan, I always love it.

485
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed listening to Greg as much as

486
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 2: I enjoyed talking to him. I feel like I could

487
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 2: randomly call him on any day of the year and

488
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: he'll sound like he just finished watching five Bengals games

489
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 2: on tape. There are a lot of people out there

490
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 2: doing great tape analysis on social media, including Bengals on

491
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: the Brain YouTube post Joe Goodberry, who joined me on

492
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: this podcast a few weeks ago, and I think Greg

493
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 2: co Sell really helped popularize the idea of studying the

494
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 2: All twenty two video and then making a complicated sport

495
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 2: a little bit easier for the rest of us to understand.

496
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 2: The Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you by pay Corps,

497
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by

498
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 2: Alta Fiber, future proof fiber Internet designed elevate your home,

499
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 2: business and community to a new level, and by Kettering

500
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 2: Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health

501
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Up next,

502
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 2: another person who is kind enough to join me at

503
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 2: the combine every year, the athletics draft guru Dane Brugler.

504
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 2: I used to buy several draft guides every year, but

505
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 2: that really isn't necessary anymore because of the Beast Danes

506
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 2: incredibly comprehensive look at every player in the draft that

507
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 2: comes with a subscription to the Athletic Dan. The three

508
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 2: players that Bengals fans have been fixated on our Ohio

509
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 2: State safety Caleb Downs and edge rusher's Reuben Bain from

510
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: Miami and David Bailey from Texas Tech, they are all

511
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 2: in your top nine and the Bengals select tenth.

512
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: Can you make a case for.

513
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 2: Why one or maybe two of those guys might be

514
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: available at number ten?

515
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 4: Absolutely, this is a top ten that's very unsettled. This

516
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 4: is going to be a top ten where just draft

517
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 4: good football players. That's gonna be the theme. It's not

518
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 4: gonna be chasing upside, it's not going to be focusing

519
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 4: specifically on treats. It's gonna be let's go get the

520
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 4: good football player. And so a guy like Caleb Downs

521
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 4: could go two, he could go twelve. I wouldn't be surprised.

522
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 4: Positional value is something that'll be talked about at nauseum.

523
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 4: You know, I think this draft, in the top ten,

524
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 4: we're gonna have a safety, off all linebacker, a running back,

525
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 4: a guy like Ruban Bain who's not your prototypical edge rusher.

526
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 4: He's gonna have short arms. Some teams have them on

527
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 4: the board as a three technique. So it's just a

528
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 4: very unusual top ten and so try especially right now.

529
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 4: Maybe we get a better sense when we be a closer,

530
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 4: but right now I think it's wide open how the

531
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 4: top ten picks are gonna play out.

532
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: The Bengals need to improve their pass rush. You wrote

533
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: recently that this draft is rich in top tier talent

534
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 2: at edge rusher.

535
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: How rich?

536
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 2: How far down in this draft could the Bengals get

537
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: somebody that could really help that pass rush.

538
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, this draft might not have a Miles Garrett, but

539
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 4: in terms of depth, it is you feel good, second round,

540
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 4: third round, maybe even the fourth round find a guy

541
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 4: that is going to help your pass rush in some way.

542
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 4: And so in my top one hundred, I had seventeen

543
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 4: receivers and then sixteen edge rushers, and so those two

544
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 4: positions are outstanding. And there's a lot of different types

545
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 4: of guys. You know, if you want more power, you

546
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 4: want more speed, you want somebody that really specializes in

547
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 4: stopping the run. So I think that depending on a

548
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 4: type of edge rusher you want, it could get really interesting.

549
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 5: And the Bengals.

550
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 4: Are They're interesting there because I don't think Reuben Bain

551
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 4: fits necessarily exactly what they usually look for in terms

552
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 4: of you know, long arms and.

553
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 5: You know, so like it'd be a little bit outside

554
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 5: the box.

555
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 4: But so like, how would that compare it to a

556
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 4: guy like Keldric Falk from Auburn who is more of

557
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 4: that toolsy The trades are off the charts, he's twenty

558
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 4: years old, doesn't turn twenty one until I think August

559
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 4: or is that too very similar to what they drafted

560
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 4: last year? Would they want to maybe go to a

561
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 4: different direction. So the Bengals are in a very unique

562
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 4: spot there where I could see them maybe bucking the

563
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 4: trend a little bit and going a little bit different

564
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 4: than you know, what they usually drafted the position. But

565
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 4: at the same time, the leopard doesn't change his spots,

566
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 4: so I could see either way.

567
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 2: How similar is Keldrick Falk to Shamar Stewart.

568
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think that they are similar, but

569
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 4: they are different. You know, Stuart has probably a little

570
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 4: more examples on his tape of how he's gonna win

571
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 4: as a pass rusher, even though it didn't always manifest

572
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 4: itself in the.

573
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 5: Stat sheet where Keldrick Fall.

574
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 4: A lot of times he was lined up as a

575
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 4: four eye or a five technique or head up over

576
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 4: the tackle, where he just wasn't allowed to rush as

577
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 4: as many opportunities off the edge, And so I think

578
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 4: that plays a part more than anything why he didn't

579
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 4: have better numbers. Now, not saying anything against Stewart, but

580
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 4: something that helps Fulk a lot is the intangibles, the

581
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 4: character that Auburn coaches rave about him. He was a

582
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 4: team captain this past year as a very young player.

583
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 4: So there's a lot that I think teams are gonna

584
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 4: come away with this week about the interviews with Falk

585
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 4: that they just feel really encouraged about the person and

586
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 4: the type of worker they're going to bring into the program.

587
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: We're visiting with the athletics. Dane Brugler, let's talk about

588
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 2: Caleb Downs. It's unusual for a safety to be selected

589
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 2: in the top ten. What makes him so special that

590
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 2: that's possible.

591
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 4: He's a very smart and versatile player, and he's three

592
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 4: years in college. He played for three different defensive coordinators,

593
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 4: three different schemes, and in every single example, every single defense,

594
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 4: he was the guy where he is changing everything for

595
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 4: you this year matter Tricha doesn't run a very easy,

596
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 4: simple defense. They put a lot on k the Down's plate,

597
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 4: and so that intelligence factor that he's gonna be NFL

598
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 4: ready from the get go. He's going to enter go

599
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 4: into a locker room and help change the culture.

600
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,479
Speaker 5: That's the type of player that he is.

601
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 4: And I think that it's like when you watch the

602
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,719
Speaker 4: Ohio State secondary on film, watch number two. He's the

603
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 4: one that's getting everybody lined up and saying you do this,

604
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 4: you do this, this, and that. I think it's a

605
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 4: very underrated part of success. And just look at the Seahawks.

606
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 4: We talk so much about nick Emmin worry about the

607
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 4: rookie year. He had an all credit to him. But

608
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 4: when you watch the Seattle Seahawks film, pay attention to

609
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 4: Devin Witherspoon. Witherspoon is one, hey do this, you go

610
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 4: do the same thing with He's telling Tyreek Woollen, hey

611
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 4: you go do that.

612
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 5: Like without Devin Witherspoon.

613
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 4: That's the skeleton key that unlocks what that defense is

614
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 4: on the back end. Caleb Downs can be that type

615
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 4: of player for an NFL defense where he's making everybody

616
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 4: right because of the communication and because all the different

617
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 4: things he can do where he understands he quick to

618
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 4: read pass, first run, quick to get to his.

619
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 5: Depths, quick to drive on the football.

620
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 4: This week's not going to be like a don't I

621
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 4: don't expect him to test like a freak or anything

622
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 4: like that. But I think it'll be fine. Okay, size,

623
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 4: okay athlete. It'll be more of what he does in

624
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 4: the interview process and how he impresses coaches and them saying, okay, yeah,

625
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 4: we don't really look for a safety as early, but

626
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 4: we could really use that type of commanding presence on

627
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 4: the back end of our defense.

628
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 2: The Bengals drafted linebackers in the second and fourth round

629
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 2: last year. They started his rookies. Should they consider Sunny

630
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: styles tenth overall?

631
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 5: If he's there, consider absolutely? Yeah.

632
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 4: I think obviously there's a level of how much do

633
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 4: we want to let those young guys grow and give

634
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 4: them a second season to okay, what kind of jump Because.

635
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 5: It's it's hard to play linebacker in the NFL, and.

636
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 4: Theoretically you should be a lot better in year two,

637
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 4: and so I think nobody will have a better idea

638
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 4: than the Bengals coaches of what what the expectations will

639
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 4: be for those those two guys going to next year.

640
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 4: But Sunny Styles is, you know, as clean of a

641
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 4: prospect in this draft. I mean, I heard from two

642
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 4: teams last night who told me that his interviews were

643
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 4: just awesome, outstanding.

644
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 5: So the person's awesome.

645
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 4: The player six four, two forty four or five speed

646
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 4: just turned twenty one years old. I think you can

647
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 4: find a spot for a guy like that, and he's

648
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 4: I was so impressed with a jump that he took

649
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 4: this past year because you know, he was a safety

650
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 4: his first two years, moves a linebacker and his twenty

651
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 4: twenty four tape was okay, he would have been drafted

652
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 4: probably some more Day two if he came out last year.

653
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 4: He goes back for a senior year, and the difference

654
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 4: it made in that one year, how much better he

655
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 4: was as a linebacker, So impressive him. He is, in

656
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 4: my opinion, one of the five best players in this draft.

657
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 4: He has every The only knock I have on him

658
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 4: as I wish he made more plays and coverage. There's

659
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 4: not a lot of examples of plays on the football,

660
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 4: but I think that it's kind of the next step

661
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 4: for him. But besides that, it's a very very clean player.

662
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: The Bengals are in the market for defensive tackles, especially

663
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 2: if they can rush the quarterback. Peter Woods from Clemson

664
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 2: is a name that has come.

665
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: Up a lot.

666
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 2: It's not super high on your board, I think in

667
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: the thirties.

668
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: Why what are your concerns about Peter Woods.

669
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 4: I just wanted to see more on tape and I

670
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 4: was super high on I'm coming in. He was my

671
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 4: number one player in August in this draft because of

672
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 4: the flashes he put on film in twenty twenty four

673
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 4: and it's like, Okay, if he takes another step, we're

674
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 4: talking about an eighty five percent version of Jalen Carter.

675
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 4: You know, he had the flashes, said that type of ability. Unfortunately,

676
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 4: we just didn't get to see that this year at Clemson.

677
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 4: You know, there were times where he'd get washed out

678
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 4: in the hole. There were times where you just didn't

679
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 4: see the disruption as a pass rusher.

680
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 5: So if he can just bottle.

681
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 4: Up those flashes and turn it into consistency, yeah, sign

682
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 4: me up. That's just it's a big projection for him.

683
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 4: So I like Peter Woods, but I personally would not

684
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 4: take them and as a top twenty five guy. I

685
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 4: would consider Caleb Banks over him, who sixty six, three

686
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 4: hundred and thirty pounds, thirty five inch arms, eleven inch

687
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 4: hans you have to feel okay about medically, just you know,

688
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 4: is he going to be able to hold up, say

689
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 4: on the field. But if I'm gonna take a chance

690
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 4: on one of those defensive tackles, it'd probably be him.

691
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 2: If Caleb Downs is gone, I don't think there's another

692
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: safety the Bengals would take at ten. But what about

693
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: later in this draft? Who are some of the other

694
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 2: safeties that you like.

695
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 5: It's a really deep safety group.

696
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 4: I Dylan Thieneman and McNeil Warren from Toledo or both

697
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 4: guys that should go in the first round. If we're

698
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 4: talking Day two. Aj Halsey from LSU is a really

699
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 4: instinctive player. Zakey Wheatley from Penn State has a lot

700
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 4: of ability. Love the way he drives on the football.

701
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 4: I want to see how Genesis Smith, the Arizona safety,

702
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 4: how tests. He's more of that Jesse Bates type of

703
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 4: free safety where he can play both sidelines.

704
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 5: He's really fluid.

705
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 4: But the reason we're talking about him is like more

706
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 4: of a third or fourth round pick is the tackling

707
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 4: is needs to get better, need to have an intervention

708
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 4: with him to, you know, ramp up the toughness a

709
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 4: little bit. But again, that's when you're talking about safety

710
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 4: in the third or fourth round. There's a reason they're

711
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 4: getting drafted that area and not earlier. So you have

712
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 4: to compromise on something. And so for a true center

713
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 4: field skill set with dennisis Smith, you have to give

714
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 4: up a little bit of the tackling, and so he

715
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 4: could be an option at that point.

716
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 5: But this is I think this is a deep safety group.

717
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 4: I think every round I could circle somebody that was

718
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 4: that I would say, Okay, if we want a safety

719
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 4: in this round, I feel good about this guy.

720
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 2: Most of us really focus on the first round, but

721
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 2: anybody who's picked up the Beast knows that you study

722
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 2: every player that is considered for this draft. Do you

723
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 2: have a few favorites that are not first or second

724
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 2: round guys, but guys that you really like for Day three?

725
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:03,919
Speaker 3: Sure?

726
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I'll just give you I'll give you a

727
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 4: few of my favorite stories from this draft. Keith Abney,

728
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 4: Arizona State corner who probably goes in the third round.

729
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 4: He was a three hundred meter national champion in the

730
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 4: seventh grade for inline skating rollerblading, and he grew up

731
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 4: like for ten years he was that was his number

732
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 4: one sport. He wanted to take it as far as

733
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 4: he could go Junior Olympics, and then football eventually took over.

734
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 4: But you can't tell me some of the core balance

735
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 4: and endurance that didn't come from what he did as

736
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 4: a really competitive and really accomplished rollerblader growing up. Jack

737
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 4: Kelly linebacker from BYU. He was a national champion BMX

738
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 4: rider at the age of five, and so he didn't

739
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 4: play football growing up because BMX took over his life.

740
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 4: And once he got the high school, he said, oh,

741
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 4: maybe I'll differentiate a little bit, pick up a different sport.

742
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 4: Turns out he's pretty good at football too, and that

743
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 4: fearless style that he you know, you have to have

744
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 4: to do BMX racing, that shows on the football field.

745
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 4: So no mystery where that came from. So I mean

746
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 4: that those are two of my favorite stories. But there's

747
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 4: a lot of those types of backgrounds and just different

748
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 4: different paths and that that's my favorite part about this

749
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 4: process is everyone's on the doorstep of the NFL, but

750
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 4: they all got here in such different ways, and just

751
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 4: peeling back the different different paths to get to this

752
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 4: point is really fun and each one's very unique.

753
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 2: Do you start on the Beast the day after the

754
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 2: draft is finished?

755
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 4: This year, I do take a step back in the

756
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 4: month of May, but I mean, I'll tell you what.

757
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 4: I'm already started on the twenty twenty seven because not

758
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 4: on purpose, but you can't help but pick up random

759
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 4: things when you're talking to a coach.

760
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 5: I'm with a.

761
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 4: Scout and something gets brought up about a player for

762
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 4: next year, And so the twenty twenty seven Beast is

763
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 4: already in the works. And then June first, when I

764
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 4: really kick it into gear. Got a nice starting point

765
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:57,439
Speaker 4: to get going.

766
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 2: I can't wait for this year to come out. It

767
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 2: helps me so much when I do my homework. Thanks

768
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: so much for giving me some of your time here

769
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 2: at the Combine.

770
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 5: It's not the Combines I get to meet with you,

771
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 5: so thank you.

772
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 2: A couple of follow ups from my interview with Dane.

773
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 2: I watched Ohio state safety Caleb Downs meet with the

774
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 2: media on Thursday and Indy and he was specifically asked

775
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 2: about the positional value of a safety when it comes

776
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 2: to being picked near the top of the draft.

777
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 6: At the end of the day, it's who's the best defender.

778
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 6: I mean, it's not like really positional value. It's who

779
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 6: affects the game, and if you affect the game in

780
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 6: a lot of ways, that's what's most important. So that's

781
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 6: really all I can worry about. Honestly, I can't worry

782
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 6: about what anybody else says or what the.

783
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 3: Coaches have done.

784
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 6: At the end of the day, my film is what

785
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 6: it is, and they're gonna make a decision based off it.

786
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,280
Speaker 3: Up, Are you in the best offender here? Yeah?

787
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 6: I mean, I mean I feel confident every time I

788
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 6: step on the field. So if I would say that

789
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 6: I walked on the field and thought anybody was better

790
00:39:59,000 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 6: than me, yeah, that's.

791
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 2: Not Caleb is the number two defender on Dane Brugler's

792
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: Big board, behind his Ohio State teammate r Vel Reese

793
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: and another Buck guy, Sunny Styles is third as for

794
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 2: Auburn edge rusher Keldric Falk. He's fifteenth overall on the

795
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 2: Brugler Board and number seven among defensive players. Falk generated

796
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 2: buzz at the Combine when his measurements came out on Thursday.

797
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 2: He's a hair under six six, weighs two hundred and

798
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 2: seventy six pounds, and his arms were nearly thirty five

799
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 2: inches long. All of that is great, but he had

800
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 2: ten sacks in three years with the Tigers and only

801
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 2: two this season. Former NFL player and scout Bucky Brooks

802
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 2: is one of the NFL Network's top draft analysts. In

803
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: his latest mock draft, the three guys who many Bengals

804
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 2: fans are focused on were all gone. Bucky has Texas

805
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 2: tech pass rusher David Bailey going number two to the Jets,

806
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 2: Caleb Downs going number five to the Giants, and Ruben

807
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 2: Bain going seventh to Washington. He has the Bengals taking Falk.

808
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: We discuss that and much more so.

809
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 7: If you lose Trey Hendrickson, you have Shimore Stewart coming back,

810
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,959
Speaker 7: but you gonna need to upgrade, and you think about

811
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 7: the division, who you're playing, You got to have multiple

812
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 7: guys and fault. What you have is more of a

813
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 7: run stopping defensive edge player who has potential to develop

814
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 7: into maybe a high level pass rusher.

815
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 3: But I think about his.

816
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 7: Size, his length, is athleticism and traditionally how the Bengals

817
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 7: have operated. He would fit that profile just because of

818
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 7: the length and the way that he plays.

819
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 2: Again, some people have said he is this year. Shamar

820
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 2: Stewart didn't necessarily have great production in college.

821
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: Is that fair?

822
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 3: You know?

823
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 7: It's funny because the production. You look at the stat

824
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 7: line and you say, okay, he had two sacks. But

825
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 7: when you ask people in the SEC to say, hey, man,

826
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 7: he's a dominant player. He's young, twenty one years old,

827
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 7: really explosive against the run, has a bit of a

828
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 7: weird frog tens. Yeah, so there's something to that in

829
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 7: terms of if you're scared because you took Shamar Stewart,

830
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 7: do you want to go that route again or do

831
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 7: you want to more approven commodity.

832
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 3: The one thing that we also know Cincinnati tends to like.

833
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 7: Their big ten players and sunny styles. You have a

834
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 7: freak athlete who they know very well because they seen

835
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 7: him because he's in their own backyard. I would not

836
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 7: be surprised to see him as a pick there, and

837
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 7: after he probably works out at the combine, there's gonna

838
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:22,919
Speaker 7: be more buzzed about him being a top ten pick.

839
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 2: They drafted two linebackers last year in the second and

840
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 2: fourth rounds. Those guys started as rookies. If Sonny Styles

841
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 2: is there at number ten, do you say, hey, it's

842
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 2: great that those guys played last year, but this guy's

843
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 2: a difference maker.

844
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 7: Well, he is a difference maker, and I think a

845
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 7: lot of it is Al Golden switched a little bit

846
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 7: in the middle of the season. They went to more

847
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 7: of a base defense for three defense with three linebackers

848
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 7: on the field, kind of getting done, and it worked

849
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 7: for them. I don't think you bypassed good players, and

850
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 7: I think you look at your roster and you don't

851
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 7: have a first round player position at one those linebacker spots.

852
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 7: I think you find a way to make it work.

853
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 7: He's talented. Al Golden has done a really good job

854
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 7: of getting defense to play respectable defense to last half

855
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 7: of the season. To me, I think is about best

856
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 7: player available at those spots. You don't want to kind

857
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 7: of gamble on projections. Who's the best player that can

858
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 7: come and give us that production right away.

859
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 2: In your first mock draft, you had the Bengals taking

860
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: Caleb Downs. Is that the dream for Cincinnati if he's there?

861
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 3: I think so.

862
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 7: I mean the defense hasn't been right in the back

863
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 7: end since Jesse Bates Love. And when you really think

864
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 7: about Cincinnati and how important it is to have someone

865
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 7: who's not only a high end traffic cop, a high

866
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 7: IQ player, but a playmaker. He is a playmaker. You

867
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 7: can do a bunch of different things in the box.

868
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 7: The versatility is there, and I just think he will

869
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 7: be a natural fit. And when you talked about it,

870
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 7: because safety normally in the top ten is not viewed

871
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 7: as a market position, he very well could be right.

872
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 7: There could be a match made of heady.

873
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 2: Let me go back to what I said off the top.

874
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 2: Those three guys are the players that Cincinnati fans have

875
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 2: been fixated on. Which of the three do you think

876
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 2: is most likely to still be there at ten if

877
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 2: the Bengals had things follow their way.

878
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 7: Caleb Downs is most likely to be there, just in

879
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 7: safety position, and when you look at the needs of

880
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 7: the teams in front of them, safety would be more

881
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 7: of a luxury at him. I think I had Caleb

882
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 7: Downs projected to go to the Giants at five. The

883
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 7: Giants need a right tackle and so depending on what

884
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 7: happens in cre agency, they may have to spend that

885
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 7: big there.

886
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 3: Outside of that, I don't know of another sure.

887
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 7: Team that I could put Caleb Down's there and given

888
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 7: the need, given the familiarity, because he played in the backyard,

889
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 7: he could be in play attempt or visiting.

890
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,439
Speaker 2: With Bucket Brooks from the NFL Network, let's talk about

891
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 2: defensive tackle Peter Woods. You've got him going nineteenth in

892
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 2: your latest mock. Is he the best defensive tackle in

893
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 2: this draft?

894
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: And what are his strengths and weaknesses?

895
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:44,240
Speaker 3: It might be the most talented.

896
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 7: I can't say he's the best because his production dip

897
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 7: last year at Clemson, But in terms of talent, when

898
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 7: you watch the tape size, speed, first step, quickness, hands

899
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,280
Speaker 7: that have some violence in them, he's a really talented player.

900
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 7: You got to figure out why wasn't a production there

901
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 7: his final season, But there's no doubt that when you

902
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 7: look at the flashes on tape, he could be a dominant,

903
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 7: disruptive player at the point of attack.

904
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: The Bengals need to improve their pass rush. How deep

905
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: is this draft in pass rushers?

906
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 7: Oh, it's deep, and you always can find pass rushes

907
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 7: at live every level. But look when you go all

908
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,839
Speaker 7: the way down to even the bottom of the first round,

909
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 7: top of the second cash is Howell and some of

910
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 7: those guys that are there that are fast and athletic.

911
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 3: TJ.

912
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 7: Parker like, there are guys that are available to make

913
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 7: things happen. Is about the identification and understanding who's around,

914
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:35,919
Speaker 7: who could be in play?

915
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 3: Do we need to move? Can we sit and pick? All?

916
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 3: Those things kind of matter when it comes to pass rushers.

917
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 2: Do you have a defensive player or a couple of

918
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 2: defensive players that aren't necessarily first round picks, but guys

919
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 2: that you really like and think maybe others are undervaluing

920
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 2: them a little bit.

921
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 7: Cal lewis safety linebacker from Pitt. He is really really

922
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 7: interesting when you watch him play. He went down to

923
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 7: the Senior Bowl and I pressed. But when you watch

924
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 7: his tape, man he plays with his hair on fire.

925
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,320
Speaker 7: He is all over the place. He can make things happen.

926
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 7: If you talk about a guy who's a friends first

927
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 7: round pick at safety again, Thinneman the safety from Oregon.

928
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 7: He is a freak athlete played at Perdue, had six

929
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 7: interceptions as a freshman, led the team the next year

930
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 7: in tackles, goes to Oregon, makes a bunch of plays. Look,

931
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 7: we haven't talked about him now, but there'd be a

932
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 7: buzz about him when we come out of the combine.

933
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 2: You had to call him recently where you listed the

934
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 2: seven teams in their Super Bowl window, the Bengals did

935
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 2: not make your list. Hopefully they weren't too far back

936
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 2: from number seven.

937
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 1: But why not?

938
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:37,760
Speaker 3: Defense? I think it's the defense.

939
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 7: I think that's the one thing when you look at offensively,

940
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 7: they have everything that you could wish for. Maybe I

941
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 7: would say a running back, a dominant running back kind

942
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 7: of make that offense pop when you think about t

943
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 7: Higgins and Jamar Chason on the outside, what it.

944
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,280
Speaker 3: Looked like previously with Joe Mixon. So offensively, just that tweek.

945
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 7: Defensively is where it has And I'm not even saying

946
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 7: that you have to play great defense, but you have

947
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 7: to be middle of the pack. You have to be

948
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 7: able to play Bemba, don't break, don't give up explosive plays.

949
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 3: You don't want to engage in shootouts every week.

950
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 7: So if they can find a way to play good defense,

951
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 7: and some of that can be helped by the way

952
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 7: that Zach Taylor operates on offense, Maybe we don't operate

953
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 7: an up tempo, maybe we learn how to kind of

954
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 7: scale it back and control.

955
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 3: The clock a little bit with our offense.

956
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:22,439
Speaker 7: There are things that can do, but I would say

957
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 7: the defense is the one thing that prevents the Bengals

958
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 7: from being in that conversation. But coming off last year,

959
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 7: we've seen things can turn around quickly in this league.

960
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 7: So who's to say that the Bengals can't be in

961
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 7: that mix.

962
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 3: All over again.

963
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: I think they're seventh in available cap space, They've got

964
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 2: the tenth pick, they've got all of their high picks.

965
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: Can they turn the defense around that quickly?

966
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean we saw the Patriots do it. Yeah.

967
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 7: You have to have a plan, and you have to

968
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 7: target the right guys, and your spending has to be economical,

969
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 7: meaning you can't.

970
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 3: Overpay for you guys.

971
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 7: You got to get good guys, but you don't want

972
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 7: to overpay where province you can get another good player.

973
00:47:57,719 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 7: They tend to be kind of thrifty when it comes

974
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 7: to I think the Bengals can get it done. You

975
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 7: gotta tell her to get the right guys, and then

976
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 7: you got to enhance whatever you have in free agency.

977
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 7: You got to make sure you add some pieces in

978
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 7: the draft because you gotta have some young players that

979
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:12,919
Speaker 7: can have some of these older players that are gonna

980
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 7: come on board.

981
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 2: I think if we sat down and had this conversation

982
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: over the past several years, we would be talking about

983
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 2: the Bengals offensive line. It seemed year after year it

984
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 2: was They've got to fix the offensive line.

985
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: Have they fixed it?

986
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 2: Because in the second half of this past season it

987
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 2: played well.

988
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, they played well.

989
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 7: And also help said, when Joe Burrow is healthy and available,

990
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 7: he's gonna make them look good because the ball comes out,

991
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:37,240
Speaker 7: you can release every olible.

992
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:37,839
Speaker 3: He's gonna make.

993
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 7: Sure that he protects himself kiss the ball out of

994
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:41,879
Speaker 7: his hands. So it's a combination of that. But look,

995
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 7: they've been solid. Like they've been solid upfront, you always

996
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 7: want better. You always want to be able to dominate

997
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 7: upfront because when you dominate at the point of attack.

998
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 3: It makes the game easy.

999
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 7: They're good enough upfront to be able to get it

1000
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 7: done with the weapons they have on the outside.

1001
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 2: There's some University of Cincinnati players that are gonna be

1002
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 2: selected in this draft. Jake Golday is I will be

1003
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 2: the first one will be as selected. The Godfather Dante

1004
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 2: Corleone is on the list. Tight end Joe Royer is

1005
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 2: on the list. Any thoughts on any of those three guys.

1006
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:11,280
Speaker 3: Goda's impressive.

1007
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 7: God is impressive because he has some defensive lines, some

1008
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 7: edge rush in his background. He can play off ball linebacker.

1009
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 7: He's really a jack of all trades. He can do

1010
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 7: a bunch of different things. Size, his length, the way

1011
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 7: that he plays in the box.

1012
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 3: He's a really good player.

1013
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 7: He's gonna test fairly well here for his sigh, so

1014
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,919
Speaker 7: he's gonna be in play the titand that you talked

1015
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 7: about Royer really intriguing. He's really intriguing because the production

1016
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 7: was there two seasons ago. Dipped a little bit this year,

1017
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 7: but man, when I look at my nose on him,

1018
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,919
Speaker 7: I love everything about him. A true h back gets open,

1019
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 7: hasse wiggle. Both of those guys have a chance to

1020
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 7: be Day two picks.

1021
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 2: He played in the NFL, scouted in the NFL. The

1022
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 2: Bengals have used a lot of draft capital in recent

1023
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 2: years on defensive players. Miles Murphy, Shamar Stewart, DJ Turner,

1024
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 2: Dax Zill, Chris Jenkins, Demetrius Knight. All of those guys

1025
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 2: were taken in the first or second rounds. Do you

1026
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 2: see some building blocks. We talked about the need to

1027
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: improve the defense from that group of guys, do you

1028
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,280
Speaker 2: see some building blocks for the defense going forward?

1029
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 7: I'm more optimistic about the group, but I would say

1030
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 7: they've been a little bit of a disappointment based on

1031
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 7: how I like those players coming out and.

1032
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 3: How they've played. I think a lot of it is

1033
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 3: like what.

1034
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 7: Can we do to kind of put the pieces of

1035
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 7: the puzzle together to make sure that they're at their best.

1036
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 7: There's some intrigue about what the Bengals are have building,

1037
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 7: but they got to put it together on the grass

1038
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 7: and so some of that is on Golden some of

1039
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:33,240
Speaker 7: that is on the personnel staff.

1040
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 3: All hands on deck when it comes to fixing the defense.

1041
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 2: You are jumping from interview to interview. I appreciate your

1042
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 2: time today, Thanks so much, and keep up the great work.

1043
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for having me. I loved it.

1044
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 2: NFL Network provides live coverage of the NFL Scouting Combine

1045
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 2: through Sunday. That's going to do it for this episode

1046
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,800
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1047
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,759
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1048
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1049
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1050
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1051
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:12,680
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1052
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 2: haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and

1053
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,279
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1054
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:22,439
Speaker 2: share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us.

1055
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 2: I'm Dan Horde and thanks for listening to the Bengals

1056
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 2: Booth podcast.