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Speaker 1: On the Bechde Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism, the patriarchy and fast start

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Speaker 1: changing with the Bechdel.

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Speaker 2: Cast, Hey Jamie, Yes, I'm gonna try something, Okay, Caitlin,

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Speaker 2: Long Live the New Flesh Dull Cast. On the Flesh

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Speaker 2: Dol Cast, the questions asked, why is there a vagina

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Speaker 2: in my stomach? Someone remix it?

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Speaker 3: We don't have much time there.

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Speaker 2: And that's past that, and now.

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Speaker 3: We get to we should do that every time we

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Speaker 3: do a body horror movie, is did it pass the

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Speaker 3: fed the flesh do test?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Is it fleshy enough? I think this movie is gonna

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Speaker 3: be a hard guest, although I honestly, I mean maybe

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Speaker 3: this is me being unwell possible. I was kind of like, wow,

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Speaker 3: I thought there would be more flesh.

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Speaker 2: You know, the it takes a while for the flesh

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Speaker 2: to get going, and then it doesn't ramp up quite

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Speaker 2: the way I was remembering. I guess I'll talk about

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Speaker 2: my history. This is the kind of movie I never well,

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Speaker 2: yeah I dnt. But like whenever I watch a Croninberg

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Speaker 2: movie or a David Lynch movie or any movie that's

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Speaker 2: just like, it's a weird it's a weird auteur guy.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 2: Most of the time the David's, the David's are out

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Speaker 2: there making weird shit.

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Speaker 3: Lynch is head or miss for me. David Cronenberg almost

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Speaker 3: never misses. For me, it's it's a whole lot of yes.

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Speaker 3: But I always picture my like I was doing it

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Speaker 3: yesterday because Sarah was staying with me, And I always

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Speaker 3: picture my uncle trying to describe a body horror movie,

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Speaker 3: and it really enhances the experience for me. It's like,

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Speaker 3: so there's this.

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Speaker 4: Guy and his television has boobs and he's motive boating it,

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Speaker 4: and I'm supposed to know what the fuck is going

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Speaker 4: on and I don't.

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Speaker 3: It's I highly recommend just having an I do the

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Speaker 3: same thing with Black Mirror episodes where he's like, this

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Speaker 3: guy is having sex with his computer in the port.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's bry episode. Internal monologue is watching all

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Speaker 2: of these things in that exact accent.

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Speaker 3: Also, Uncle Caitlin, Okay, this and this is a show

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Speaker 3: that exists. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Yes, this is our show where we examine movies through

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Speaker 2: an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test and sometimes

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Speaker 2: the Fleshtel test when when needed, when needed, simply as

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Speaker 2: a jumping off point to initiate larger conversations about representation, inclusivity,

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Speaker 2: all of that kind of stuff. What is the Bechdel test, though, Jamie.

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Speaker 3: Well, the Bechdel Test is a media metric crew I

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Speaker 3: just created, created by queer cartoonists. I understand where the

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Speaker 3: words were getting mixed up. I just wanted to say

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Speaker 3: queer so badly for some reason.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, okay.

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Speaker 3: Created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel

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Speaker 3: Wallis Test. A lot of versions of this test. It

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Speaker 3: originally appeared as a joke in an eighties comic anthology

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Speaker 3: called Dikes to Watch Out For, but it's since been

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Speaker 3: adopted as a way to sort of see how gender

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Speaker 3: is treated in movies, which is usually bad. The version

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Speaker 3: of the test we use requires that there'll be two

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Speaker 3: people of a marginalized gender with names who talk to

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Speaker 3: each other about something other than a man for more

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Speaker 3: than two lines of dialogue. That's it, low bar. This

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Speaker 3: movie does pass in a way that I thought was funny.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm glad you paid attention because I didn't as

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Speaker 2: per usually.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well, yes it does. But we'll get there because

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Speaker 3: we have to get our guest in here a returning

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Speaker 3: three timer four timer three three.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that means.

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Speaker 3: You get a hat. I wish we had hats.

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Speaker 2: This means you get a fleshy VHS tape that will

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Speaker 2: mail to you.

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Speaker 3: At five. We start promising that we'll get you a jacket,

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Speaker 3: but the jacket never materialized ever comes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. Anyway. Our guest is a writer. Her

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Speaker 2: newest book, Candelaria, which is about a Guatemalan grandmother at

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Speaker 2: the end of the world and how her granddaughters started

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Speaker 2: it started the apocalypse. It was just released, so you

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Speaker 2: can read it and buy it and do all the

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Speaker 2: things with it now. And you know her from our

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Speaker 2: episodes on is It thirteen? Going on thirty and Spanglish? Right, okay,

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Speaker 2: what a legacy.

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Speaker 5: We also made Manhattan.

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Speaker 2: No, no, you made that up. We did cover that movie,

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Speaker 2: but that was with a different person.

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Speaker 5: All right.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, it's Melissa Losanta Leiva.

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Speaker 3: Hi, welcome back, welcome back. We love her.

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Speaker 2: First of all, tell us about your book.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's so good. So tell us about it.

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Speaker 5: Yes, So my book is it is about a guatemal

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Speaker 5: and grandmother at the end of the world over the

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Speaker 5: course of the day, and then it goes back a

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Speaker 5: year later and you see her Guatemalan American loser granddaughters

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Speaker 5: and the ways that they start the end of the world.

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Speaker 5: And there is a fair amount of body horror stuff

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Speaker 5: with the television screens. Cannibal, Unwanted Pregnancies. Yeah, that's my book.

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Speaker 3: So we asked you when you're coming on to promote

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Speaker 3: the book, we asked you to send us a list

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Speaker 3: of movies that felt Candelaria adjacent, and you sent Martha,

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Speaker 3: Marcy May, Marlene Prometheus, Videodrome, and Splice. So we are

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Speaker 3: covering Video Drome by mister David Kroneberg himself. What is

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Speaker 3: your connection to Video Drome? When did you first see it?

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Speaker 3: What's your relationship with David?

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Speaker 5: Actually, I've never seen this movie before except to come

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Speaker 5: on this podcast. But my friend Oz Rodriguez, who did

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Speaker 5: Vampires Versus the Bronx cool and he was like, oh,

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Speaker 5: you must love Video Drome And I was like, I

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Speaker 5: don't know, I've never seen that, and he was I

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Speaker 5: think you would really like it because there's a lot

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Speaker 5: of there's like scenes that are similar in my book

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Speaker 5: to Videodrome with TVs and flesh. So I was like,

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Speaker 5: talk about it, that could be fun. And I'm from

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Speaker 5: what I've seen from the clubs I saw of video Drome,

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Speaker 5: the body horror effects are super goofy, and that's that

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Speaker 5: was fun.

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Speaker 2: I can't wait to read it.

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Speaker 3: It's so good. It's the read of the year. I

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Speaker 3: love it. Wow nice, it's so and also it just

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Speaker 3: I don't know, it's so I love reading books where

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I know where they are. Yeah, I'm easy.

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Speaker 3: I'm easy in that way. It's like I know they're

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Speaker 3: going to college quarter theater while they're just like me.

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Speaker 5: Uh.

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Speaker 3: It's so, it's so so good. That's so funny that

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Speaker 3: you haven't that you hadn't seen it before. Yeah. I

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Speaker 3: feel like that comes up pretty frequently, where everyone assumes

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Speaker 3: that everyone's seen every movie on the planet and you're like, no,

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Speaker 3: I guess that me and David Cronenberg just both like

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Speaker 3: the same kind of perverted stuff.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, it was nice. I wonder why I thought

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Speaker 5: of this. Also, Yeah, Also, I think I feel like

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Speaker 5: I've seen I mean, well, we can talk about it.

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Speaker 5: I feel like movies like an ancestor for a few

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Speaker 5: other horror movies like The Ring, and I.

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Speaker 2: Was getting strong Ring vibes from this movie because both

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Speaker 2: of them are about you watch a mysterious videotape and

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Speaker 2: then bad things start to happen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love both of these. I guess that this

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Speaker 3: is just a subgenre that I love. Kitlin, what's your

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Speaker 3: history with video drome? Slash the David Cronenberg Expanding Universe?

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Speaker 2: So I'm not much of a Kronenberg head. I don't

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Speaker 2: mind body horror if I feel like it's there for

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Speaker 2: a reason. But I feel like, at least in videodrome,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, what does a vagina in your abdomen that

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Speaker 2: you put VHS tapes into have anything to do with

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Speaker 2: the like corruption caused by the media kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that he knows, and I find that enjoyable.

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Speaker 5: I had no idea what he was doing. It's kind

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Speaker 5: of fun.

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Speaker 3: It's so circuitous. It reminded me of like listening to

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Speaker 3: my pediatrician talk about why watching TV is bad for

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Speaker 3: you when I was little, and he's like, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, why is it?

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Speaker 2: He like, it's just it just is definitely not good, right,

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Speaker 2: So I don't really know why the body horror is present.

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Speaker 2: I know why it is in something like The Fly,

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Speaker 2: which I've seen, and I haven't seen that one in

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Speaker 2: a while. I also hadn't seen Video Drum in a

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Speaker 2: really long time. I watched a handful of actually probably

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Speaker 2: only two Kronenberg movies in college, and then I was like,

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Speaker 2: I don't think this is for me, so I didn't

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Speaker 2: watch any others. But I have a limited experience with Cronenberg.

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Speaker 2: But I had seen Video Drome, and I really only

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Speaker 2: remembered the abdomen vagina VCR and the bulging TV that

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Speaker 2: like throbs and is horny, and that's.

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Speaker 3: Pretty much it. Love the horny TV.

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Speaker 2: Jimmie, what's your history with Cronenberg in general? And Video Drome?

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Speaker 3: So I haven't seen I had not seen Video Drum,

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Speaker 3: so I'm not I don't know. I'd like Letterbox users

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Speaker 3: do not come for me. You can like a director

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Speaker 3: and not see every single fucking thing they've made. It scarce.

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Speaker 3: I'm so afraid of movie fans anyway.

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Speaker 2: Scary.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I'm a David Cronenberg fan. I'd seen I mean,

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Speaker 3: i'd seen The Fly, I'd seen Shivers, I'd seen both

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Speaker 3: Crimes of the Futures. I'd seen a movie of his

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Speaker 3: that I don't think people talk about very much, and

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Speaker 3: I just I don't remember if it's good, but I

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Speaker 3: definitely remember being affected by it. Dead Ringers. Have either

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Speaker 3: of you seen that one?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 3: Oh it is Uh it's Jeremy Irons and Genevieve Bougold.

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Speaker 3: I don't know who that is, but they played twin

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Speaker 3: twin kind of collegists. Oh my god, and it's just

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Speaker 3: like the most Cronenburghie thing of all time because they

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Speaker 3: you just start at kind of like you don't need

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Speaker 3: to like go through leap through any hoops to get

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Speaker 3: to where he wants you. To be sure. I love

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Speaker 3: body orror. I don't need a reason for it. Really.

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Speaker 3: I do think Cronenberg is so so mommy, like in

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Speaker 3: the way that like where you're like, well, I think

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Speaker 3: that that's where his problems lie. That's my guess. It

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Speaker 3: seems like maybe he has some things to work through

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Speaker 3: and and maybe he hasn't. But it's been fun to watch.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I liked Video Drome. I love that it's gross. I

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Speaker 3: love that it's short.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I do like that.

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Speaker 3: Love the horny TV. And I think my general opinion

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Speaker 3: is I felt like the back half of the movie

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Speaker 3: moved way slower because I don't care about the James

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Speaker 3: Woods character. I care about all of the women that

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Speaker 3: he's meeting that call him ugly. I liked that part

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Speaker 3: the best, But then you get the horny TV at

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Speaker 3: the end, so you know it's like it's where it's

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Speaker 3: worth it, It's worth the ride.

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Speaker 5: Sure, I was like, why does this guy look so familiar?

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Speaker 5: And I realized he played Hercules and I think he

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Speaker 5: played Hades and her Es. Yes, he modeled his face

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Speaker 5: and did it kind of look.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's the I mean he is the absolute worst

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Speaker 3: as as a person. Yes, yeah, he.

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Speaker 2: Has horrible politics, just a troll ghoul of a man.

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Speaker 2: And I also just hate him as a performer. Him

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Speaker 2: and like Kevin Costner are just if they're in a movie,

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Speaker 2: I won't see it because of them. I just hate

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Speaker 2: seeing them on screen.

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Speaker 3: I don't know which one is Kevin Costner. I can't

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Speaker 3: mix up all I know I like. I mean, obviously

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Speaker 3: no dispacey, but I think I like Kline. I like

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Speaker 3: it's Kevin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and then of course Kevin lemonnon my Ken Kevin.

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Speaker 3: He belongs in He's an actor named Kevin. I'm being ridiculous. No,

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Speaker 3: you're not Kevin Klein. Yeah right, Kevin Lemignon. Now we're talking. Yeah, okay, okay,

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Speaker 3: let's talk about Video Drum, the movie by David Cronenberg

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Speaker 3: that came out.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty three. Thank you, you're so welcome. And

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Speaker 2: before we do that, let's take a quick break and

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Speaker 2: then we'll come back and talk about it. We'll be

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Speaker 2: right back, and we're back, and here is the recap

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Speaker 2: for Video Drome. We meet Max Wren. That's James Woods.

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Speaker 2: He's the president of a Toronto based TV station, Channel

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Speaker 2: eighty three, which shows kind of anything ranging from softcore

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Speaker 2: porn to violent smut type stuff. And we see him

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Speaker 2: going around wanting to buy various videos to put on

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Speaker 2: his channel. Some of it he feels is too soft

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Speaker 2: and not tacky enough.

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Speaker 3: I'm just like, can you do like, could you do

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Speaker 3: this in Canada? Is it a Canada thing? I feel

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Speaker 3: like on American TV this would not fly. I'm not

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Speaker 3: I mean, you show snuff movies on TV in Canada.

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Speaker 2: I doubt it. I think this is just like it

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Speaker 2: takes place in a world where poor like our easily

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Speaker 2: accessible on television.

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Speaker 3: I love, I love a strange and ominous, distant near future.

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Speaker 5: Yea, it's nice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So this is a Canada where you can

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Speaker 3: show it's not films on TV and James Wood's job

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Speaker 3: is to find the scariest ones.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, and so Max Wren finds a show

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Speaker 2: called video Drome where a woman is being tortured and

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Speaker 2: eventually murdered, and he thinks this is awesome. He thinks

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Speaker 2: this is a great fit for his Channel eighty three,

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Speaker 2: and I like with it.

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Speaker 3: Once they start saying video drome in this movie, then

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Speaker 3: people are saying video drome at least once a minute,

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Speaker 3: and it's used as a noun, and it's uses an adjectivist,

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Speaker 3: uses a verb. As the movie goes on.

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Speaker 5: I don't hear it at first, and they're like what,

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Speaker 5: and then he's like video drome and then he spells, wait, I.

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Speaker 3: Have I took a screenshot of one part where I'm like,

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Speaker 3: this is getting ridiculous in a good way, but it

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Speaker 3: was James Wood's like, tell me about my video drome? Problem,

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Speaker 3: and you're like, what are you talking? Like, I really

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Speaker 3: loved it. They talk about it like it's a place.

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Speaker 3: At one point it's a brain tumor. Sometimes it's just

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Speaker 3: kind of a general vibe. You just don't really know.

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Speaker 3: And by the end, I'm like, I'm no clearer on

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Speaker 3: what was going on with videos.

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Speaker 2: It's like what is video drome? But also what isn't

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Speaker 2: video drome?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 3: And that's what makes us think.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so goofy, I love it.

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Speaker 2: So this guy Harlan is helping Max pirate video drum

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Speaker 2: and what's going on with him?

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Speaker 5: Is he he keeps calling him patron.

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Speaker 3: Yeah right, that's kind of his thing. Yes, and he

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Speaker 3: wears interesting shirts and that's kind of all you need

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Speaker 3: to know about. Well, actually no, there's there's a good

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Speaker 3: twist with him.

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Speaker 2: Later, there is there is They think video Drome is

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Speaker 2: coming from Malaysia, but then they realize it's coming from Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 2: Shout out to Western Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I'm like, does Pittsburgh claim this movie?

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Speaker 3: They like, yeah, that's where all the fucked up stuff apens.

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Speaker 3: If it's too fucked up for Canada, you gotta go

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Speaker 3: to Pittsburgh. I love Pittsburgh. Shout out the Ketchup Museum.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, of course. Okay. So then Max is a

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Speaker 2: guest on a talk show along with a guy named

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Speaker 2: Professor Brian Oblivion.

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Speaker 3: Great character name, yes, and a.

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Speaker 2: Woman named Nicky Brand played by Debbie Harry.

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Speaker 5: Debbie Harry, she was this.

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Speaker 3: She was I think maybe it's just her general hairstyle.

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Speaker 3: When I looked at her first, I was like, is

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Speaker 3: that Michelle Pfeiffer. But I think it was just her

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Speaker 3: hair shape. I love when pop stars are in movies,

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Speaker 3: and this was like a good pop star role because

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Speaker 3: it didn't she didn't need to be amazing.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of like when Jennifer Lopez was in the Cell.

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Speaker 5: Oh yes, I love this.

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Speaker 2: It's a bizarre one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like a subcategory pop pop girlies who cannot

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Speaker 3: really act. But if but if cast correctly, it's a

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Speaker 3: fun time.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Uh okay. So all of these guests on this talk

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Speaker 2: show are talking about erotic media and its effect and

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Speaker 2: influence on society, and it's making me think and we're

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Speaker 2: thinking about it. But Max is horny, and he's like, hey, Nikki,

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Speaker 2: you want to go out to dinner?

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Speaker 5: With me, he asks her on air television.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that scene is I think I really liked it.

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Speaker 3: It's so bizarre. I had to rewatch that scene several

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Speaker 3: times to be like what, because it's I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: it's interesting that like, we do know say what you

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Speaker 3: will about how women are portrayed in this movie. We

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Speaker 3: will say things about it, but we do know what

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Speaker 3: everyone's job is, and everyone's job is very weird. It's like,

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Speaker 3: and she don't. It's so bizarre because it's in that

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Speaker 3: scene Nikki says the right thing and has the right

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Speaker 3: values and then immediately does the opposite. And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I feel kind of seen by that, right, Like I

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Speaker 3: also know what my values are and constantly disobey them

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Speaker 3: right the second I get one percent horny.

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Speaker 2: So not to mention, because she's just like, we live

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Speaker 2: in an over stimulated society, and I think that's bad.

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Speaker 2: And then he's like, well, what about that red dress

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Speaker 2: you're wearing, you hypocrite, And I'm like, excuse me.

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Speaker 3: She's She's like, yeah, the red dress is a bit

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Speaker 3: much like Oh my god. I thought I really appreciated

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Speaker 3: the host of the show. I thought she she was

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Speaker 3: really trying to keep things on.

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Speaker 5: Jack while James woods, Yeah, they're the.

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Speaker 3: Guest like was being actively sexually harassed, but was like, no,

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Speaker 3: this is cool. And poor poor Rena, she's just trying

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Speaker 3: to keep things. She's she's talking to a dead guy

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Speaker 3: on a videotape, doesn't even know it. Marina is just

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Speaker 3: in it. She's trying to say that sex and violence

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Speaker 3: on television in Canada is not good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, damn anyway, So they go on the date Max

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Speaker 2: and Nikki and she's like, let's watch porn. It puts

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Speaker 2: me in the mood. And then she puts on Videodrome

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Speaker 2: and despite its violent nature, she really likes it. Cut

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Speaker 2: to them naked and while they're having sex or like,

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, hornily canoodling.

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Speaker 3: She corn swear to God.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know if he's inside her, but

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Speaker 2: they are canoodling and it's horny.

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Speaker 3: So I was I rewatched The Fly recently, and I

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Speaker 3: wonder Jeff Goldbloom's character in The Fly has you know

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Speaker 3: his his mattress is basically on the floor, which makes

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Speaker 3: sense with the character James Wits. I'm like, all these

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Speaker 3: men have beds that are very low to the ground.

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Speaker 2: And you would think if he owns a TV station,

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Speaker 2: he could do. He has a ford I have.

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Speaker 3: He has the budget for it. But I'm just like,

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Speaker 3: what is it with all these bed frameless protagonists.

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Speaker 5: He must Cronenberg, must sleep on the floor himself.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it gets it's something something creative. Juice is Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I used to sleep on a mattress on the floor.

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Speaker 3: I feel like that is unfairly gendered.

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Speaker 5: They're like, oh yeah, dead beat god like a series

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Speaker 5: like Plastic Tubs from Mikia.

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Speaker 3: Ooh.

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Speaker 5: I was like, and that's.

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Speaker 3: That's craft, that's elevation. It feels like a very late

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Speaker 3: twenty tens kind of meme of like, ugh, this guy

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Speaker 3: doesn't even have a bed frame. I was like, look,

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Speaker 3: I can't talk. I slept for a full year. There

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Speaker 3: is a mouse that crawled in my bed, and then

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Speaker 3: I had to sleep in the bed with my roommate

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Speaker 3: who I shared a room with.

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Speaker 2: That's beautiful.

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Speaker 3: The struggle is universal. If you don't have a bed frame,

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Speaker 3: you are seeing yes.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, back to horny canoodling. Oh god, now Max cannot

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Speaker 2: get video Drome out of his head, and now he

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Speaker 2: wants all of the shows he buys for his TV

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Speaker 2: station to be more scandalous and violent, like videodrome because

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Speaker 2: he's he thinks that's what's next in adult entertainment, and

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Speaker 2: he wants this woman who he works with, Masha, to

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Speaker 2: find out who makes video drome so that he can

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Speaker 2: acquire it legally.

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Speaker 3: I guess, okay, Masha, Yeah, awesome character.

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Speaker 5: I know.

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Speaker 3: Why didn't we get more Masha serious? One of the

393
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Speaker 3: many I like. Again, one of the things that I

394
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Speaker 3: like about this movie is James Wood's character is a

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Speaker 3: scumbag who sucks, and I feel like Cronenberg loses track

396
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Speaker 3: of that because he expects us to care about him

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Speaker 3: the whole time, which I didn't. But whenever he encounters

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Speaker 3: a woman, she lets him know that he's a scumbag

399
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Speaker 3: who isn't as hot as he thinks he is. And

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Speaker 3: I really liked that Masha does it. She's like, yeah,

401
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 3: you're a little old for me and Debbie Harry She's like, well,

402
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,120
Speaker 3: this has been a fun, you know, two time hookup,

403
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Speaker 3: but I'm moving to Pittsburgh. Fuck you, Like you're just

404
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 3: like good, good people should bail on this guy. He's

405
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Speaker 3: the worst.

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Speaker 5: I also, when you're talking about Cronenberg's mommy problems. I

407
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Speaker 5: was like, maybe ma Sasha.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, He's like, even my mom doesn't want to hook

409
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 3: up with me. Maybe my mom thinks I'm old.

410
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. Isn't there a part where he's like, ooh, we

411
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 2: could take a shower together? And she's like, how about

412
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: this hot young waiter who's next to me, I'm going

413
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Speaker 2: to hit on him instead.

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Speaker 3: I loved Masha, I wish yes more, not enough Masha,

415
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 3: not enough any of the women because I also I

416
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 3: also loved Bianca, but we'll.

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Speaker 2: Get to her, yes. And I liked Bridi too.

418
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 3: Yes.

419
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: Anyway, So Nick and Max are still hooking up, and

420
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 2: she tells him that she's going to Pittsburgh to audition

421
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 2: for Videodrome, but he doesn't think it's safe. He doesn't

422
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Speaker 2: want her to do it, and then she deliberately burns

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Speaker 2: herself with a cigarette to show him that she means

424
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Speaker 2: business or something. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. He's just sort of crown and bringing

426
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 3: out that one. That was a fun scene to watch too,

427
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 3: because it just keeps cutting between them, and James Woods

428
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Speaker 3: is like, I don't know, She's like, stop us stop,

429
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Speaker 3: I won't stop up. Cool. Awesome. Good job you guys.

430
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Speaker 2: Good job. So the next day, Max meets with Masha

431
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 2: again and she's like, look, Video Drum is bad news.

432
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Speaker 2: What you see on the show, the torture, the mutilation,

433
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Speaker 2: the murder, it's not acting. It's real. And then she

434
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 2: tells him that a guy named Brian Oblivion is connected

435
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 2: to Video Drome in some way, and he's like, oh,

436
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 2: I know him. I was on a talk show with him.

437
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 3: With him, right, He's like, oh, actually, I was sexually

438
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 3: harassing someone while he was talking. So we're basically friends.

439
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 5: On a TV screen.

440
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, So then Max goes to pay a visit to

441
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 2: Brian Oblivion, but his whole thing is that he refuses

442
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 2: to be in the same room as people. He's only

443
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 2: willing to be seen on a TV screen. Or he

444
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 2: has his daughter Bianca be his liaison. And then Max

445
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 2: is like, okay, well, mention Videodrome to him, and then

446
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: I think he will want to talk to me. Then

447
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: Max's assistant Bridie comes to his house to bring him

448
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 2: a videotape, and he's now like hallucinating this like bizarre

449
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 2: violent stuff. He has this vision where he assaults Bridey,

450
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 2: but then it's actually Nikki, but then he actually didn't

451
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:41,199
Speaker 2: assault anybody.

452
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 3: It's we'll come back to that scene that was yeah, yeah, yeah.

453
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: And then she leaves and then he watches the tape

454
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 2: and on it is Professor Brian Oblivion telling him about

455
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 2: video drome.

456
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 3: And at this point they're saying video drome about every

457
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 3: one seconds?

458
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 5: What's video Oh, and the tape is breathing when he

459
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 5: puts it in, it starts to breathe.

460
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like pulsing.

461
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 3: It's great. It's the effects in this movie. I mean

462
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 3: it like kind of goes without saying the effects in

463
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 3: this movie are absolutely they're cool, wonderful.

464
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 5: What did they use? Do you think? Have you?

465
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 3: I haven't looked into who does his practical effects, although

466
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,719
Speaker 3: when I was rewatching The Fly recently, I wonder if

467
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 3: it's the same person, because the Fly won an Oscar

468
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 3: for special effects because it was whoa so, I mean deserved.

469
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 3: He really did turn into a fly, if you recall

470
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 3: let's see. Indeed, Yes, I think I think it's the

471
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 3: same guy, Rick Baker.

472
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 5: Everything's so slimy, it's so good.

473
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 2: It's slimy.

474
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 5: It's throbbing, grabbing ballooney.

475
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 3: Oh wait, no, sorry, he didn't do. He did another

476
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 3: movie that I watched recently called rat Boy. Whoa, but

477
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 3: that's for another day. I'm having a hard time right now,

478
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 3: so I'm watching a lot of watching things like rat Boy.

479
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 3: He's really good. It's essentially Yes, it came out the

480
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 3: same year, so I feel like, you know, the.

481
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 5: Fly, he was like using the same materials.

482
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, Unfortunately, he did Baker do.

483
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 2: He didn't do Video Drome, Okay, but he did.

484
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 3: He did. He did Video Drome, Okay, got it. Other

485
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 3: things he's done include The Exorcist, he did Rat Boy, awesome.

486
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 3: He worked on Star Wars. He did the Thriller music

487
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 3: video special effects. He did that Freaky Beauty and the

488
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 3: beast Ron Pearlman TV show that I love. That was

489
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 3: Hamilton yea, yeah, I love that. Oh my god, so good.

490
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 3: He did Gremlins to the New Batch. Yeah he's got

491
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 3: he Oh my god. He did Jim Carrey Grin Okay. Yes,

492
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 3: he did the Haunted Mansion two thousand and three, which

493
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: we just covered. He did the Ring he did Yeah,

494
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 3: he did Molificia.

495
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 5: So he did the ring and video drum.

496
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 3: And video drum. It makes you think.

497
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 5: It all comes back together. We all go through the

498
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 5: abdomen slid together and out Pittsburgh.

499
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 3: We wear the slits we bore in life. Anyways, not

500
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 3: the same guy as the fly. Okay, accomplished guy, And yeah,

501
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 3: I hope the answers your questions.

502
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 2: You Okay. So we're seeing Professor Oblivion talk about video

503
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 2: drome and how he started having hallucinations that caused a

504
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: tumor in his brain, not the other way around, where

505
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: like a tumor that he had was causing the hallucinations.

506
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 2: And then he's like, and then when the doctors removed

507
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 2: the tumor, it was video drome.

508
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 3: And then you're like, what, so what is no? No,

509
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 3: I just thought I figured out what video drum was.

510
00:28:58,880 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: Now I'm back square.

511
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 5: So it's like Hakuna matata. It's it's just a feeling.

512
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 3: That's like part. I mean, that's what's fun about David

513
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 3: Cronenberg's movies is like, very often people are just saying shit,

514
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 3: they're just saying whatever. They're just like all right, and

515
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 3: then we cut to the to the stomach vagina. You're like, yeah,

516
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 3: it makes sense.

517
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: Okay. So then Nikki shows up in this video and

518
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 2: strangles Brian Oblivion and then she's like, we want you Max,

519
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 2: and then his TV starts throbbing and bulging, and then

520
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 2: he makes out with it.

521
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 3: So then the lady from Blondie is in the television

522
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 3: television has boobs. It's horny. You can stick your head

523
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 3: in it. I had no fucking clue what was going on?

524
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: Five stars yep, okay. So then Max discovers that Brian

525
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 2: Oblivion died nearly a year ago, that he helped to

526
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 2: create video Drome, but then when he realized what it

527
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 2: did to people, he tried to shut it down. But

528
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: Bryan Oblivion's business partners didn't want that, so they murdered him.

529
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: And then Max starts having even more visions. He hallucinates

530
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 2: that this huge gap opens up in his abdomen aka

531
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: his vagina VCR and he shoves his whole hand inside

532
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: and puts a gun gun in there?

533
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 3: What and then that's a I mean, that's a perfect reveal.

534
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 3: There's that he's just dated a gun. Yeah, awesome.

535
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 5: I wonder if it's like the metaphor is like the

536
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 5: video tape is just as dangerous?

537
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 2: WHOA again?

538
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 3: I was like, did I was? It's so funny because

539
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 3: you're like the intent who knows.

540
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it wouldn't be cool if there was a

541
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 5: gun in the stomach slit and it's like, yeah, it

542
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 5: would be cool, and it was.

543
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 3: I liked it, but I was like, yeah, menes date

544
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 3: violence and destruction.

545
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 5: And then it's like we're just smarter than the movie.

546
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 5: Probably Yeah, yeah.

547
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 3: I think it's just just like rick, could we fit

548
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 3: a gun in?

549
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, or like put a videotape in the well

550
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 5: what is it called? Now? I just want to say, slit?

551
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 5: What was it called? In the video scene in the

552
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 5: VCR in.

553
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 3: The in the you put the video drome in the

554
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 3: video drome to watch video drome. As a result video.

555
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 2: Then you start video druming all over the place.

556
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 5: But the action is a little bit like fucking.

557
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it feels all very video droum yea. Yes,

558
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,959
Speaker 3: the more we talk about this movie, the more I

559
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 3: like it, unfortunately, and the more I just like it

560
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 3: so that a color different flesh doel cast conversation.

561
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 5: So I had a great time.

562
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 2: Yes, well glad somebody did. Okay. So then a man

563
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 2: named Barry Convex approaches Max and very Convex works for

564
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: a corporation that makes video video Drum question Mark.

565
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 5: And they also when did they were the glasses always

566
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 5: are like, I was like, wait, what, how when did

567
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 5: we go to a glasses store?

568
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: So he's like, yeah, my company manufactures and supplies eyeglasses

569
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 2: for I think he said like developing nations or third

570
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 2: world countries or something like that, and we work with

571
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 2: NASA to make like missiles or something I don't know.

572
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 3: Video drum.

573
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: And also they make video Drum. And Max learns that

574
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 2: the videos he has previously where just tests and that

575
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 2: they will be launching Videodrome to the public soon. And

576
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 2: Barry Convex wants to record one of Max's hallucinations and

577
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 2: analyze it because he's concerned for Max and what might

578
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 2: happen to him. So then they like induce this hallucination

579
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 2: and Max has a vision where he's whipping Nikki, but

580
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: then we pull out to reveal that he's actually whipping

581
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: a TV set that has Masha on it and she's

582
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: like feeling the pain of being whipped. And then suddenly

583
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: he's out of the hallucination or is he? But he's in.

584
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 3: Bed the drome and that's video drum, classic videodrome moment.

585
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 2: But he's He's in bed next to Masha, who appears

586
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 2: to be dead, so Max calls Harlan to come over

587
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: and take pictures, but then Masha's body is nowhere to

588
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 2: be found, almost as if Max also hallucinated that. So

589
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: then Max goes to the video lab where they pirate

590
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 2: and record video Drome because Max wants to see last

591
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: night's broadcast. I think he thinks that maybe his hallucination

592
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 2: would be video Drome or something. Again don't understand, but

593
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 2: he learns that there was no video Drome transmitted last night.

594
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:41,280
Speaker 2: In fact, there was never a transmission of video Drome

595
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 2: because what was happening was Harlan was playing Max pre

596
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 2: recorded tapes to get him involved in video Drome. So

597
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 2: it's also a recruitment tool, huh. And then Barry Convext

598
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: shows up again. He's like, yeah, Videodrome is a scum

599
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,479
Speaker 2: show and only degenerate losers would like it, and that's

600
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 2: why we're going to use your TV station to start

601
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 2: broadcasting Videodrome to a wide audience.

602
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 5: Are they try? So it was like they they're like

603
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 5: you like this, We're going to kill you? Or like

604
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 5: are we gonna Are they trying to kill the viewers.

605
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: Okay, So I didn't quite understand until I consulted scholarly

606
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 2: journal Wikipedia. Okay, And I believe Barry Convex's goal is

607
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 2: he wants to like put an end to this like

608
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: media induced cultural decay by.

609
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 3: Giving pediatricians message, right.

610
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: And they're gonna do this by giving brain tumors, like

611
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: terminal brain tumors to anyone who is so obsessed with

612
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 2: sex and violence that they would watch videodrome. So they're

613
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 2: liberately killing people who they think are like degenerates by

614
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: showing them video drome knowing that it will kill them.

615
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 5: Like I watch this movie, it did not get that because.

616
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 6: It's not very clear whoa which at least is a

617
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 6: part of this movie's legacy is that it's I was

618
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 6: reading about the production history and like how the first

619
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 6: time the original cut of the movie was like under

620
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 6: eighty minutes long and you really could not tell what.

621
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 3: Was going on. And David Kreunenberg, I mean, I really

622
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 3: like his interviews. He was like, yeah, I guess I

623
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 3: cut the part where you learned that Max works at

624
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 3: the TV station. So people got really confused. I do

625
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 3: feel I don't know, I don't that also wasn't clear

626
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 3: to me on the first viewing. It took me that

627
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 3: till the second viewing to like have it come across clearly,

628
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,919
Speaker 3: which is so bizarre because they're talking about video drome

629
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 3: all the time, but because you can't really understand what

630
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 3: it is based on how they talk about it, You're like, well,

631
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 3: I don't how could I possibly? Maybe my brain is

632
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 3: too small.

633
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: No, but no, I think it's it's not super clear.

634
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: It's not clear. And because those guys also, like Barry Convex,

635
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: makes it seem like video drum is awesome until he's like, no,

636
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 2: it's not. I want to use it to kill people.

637
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: And it's like, but wait.

638
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 3: What Yeah, yeah, okay, I love it.

639
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 2: So then the vagina slit VCR thing in Max's abdomen

640
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 2: opens up again, and Barry Convex shoves a videotape of something.

641
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's Max's recorded hallucination into it

642
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 2: or it's something else, or if it's just video drum.

643
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 2: What is video drum? Anyway, whatever's on the videotape seems

644
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 2: to be telling Max to kill his business partners and

645
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 2: give Channel eighty three to Barry. Because Barry wants to

646
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 2: use Channel eighty three to broadcast video drum so that

647
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: people will watch it and die. So then Max reaches

648
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 2: into his vagina VCR in his abdomen and pulls out

649
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 2: the gun from.

650
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, that he stored in there just wasn't ready before

651
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 3: it was it was still he still had a gun

652
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 3: in the oven or like gun in the oven. Oh no, oh,

653
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 3: I knew that was gonna.

654
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: Kick Kaylen Wow, I love a pun in the oven. Also,

655
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 2: so he's like kind of Gregnant with a gun if

656
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 2: you think about it.

657
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, the gun's name is greg Yeah, Okay.

658
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 2: So he pulls the greg the gun out, and the

659
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 2: gun kind of permanently fuses to his hand, but only sometimes.

660
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's attached to his hand. Sometimes his has a

661
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 2: regular hands.

662
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 5: It's a normal gun.

663
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 3: It's really confusing, but I love. I love the reveal

664
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 3: when he goes to like the dance show. Shortly afterwards,

665
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 3: he's just sitting at a table. He pulls out his

666
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 3: gun hand and you're like, yeah, yeah, really really cool.

667
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 5: And it's looking like slimy and like it looks like

668
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 5: it really hurts.

669
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 3: I've been enjoying recently whenever I watch a movie and

670
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 3: something is like so dramatic but doesn't quite hit for

671
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 3: me to just sell say like wow, really cool to

672
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 3: the screen. Cool just to take him down a peg,

673
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,959
Speaker 3: got his ass, got his as Wow, really cool, James

674
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 3: Wood gun hand really cool?

675
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 2: Nice try.

676
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 5: Yeah I really was watching this like that was awes.

677
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 2: I mean it's a cool effect, it is, Yeah, okay.

678
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 2: So then Max goes to his own TV station and

679
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 2: shoots his business partners with his gun hand, and then

680
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 2: he goes to kill Bianca oblivion and she's like, no,

681
00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 2: don't because videodrome is brainwashing you to do this. And

682
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: video Drum killed Nicki Brand or someone killed Nicki Brand.

683
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 2: But anyway, she's been dead the whole time, yeah, I think.

684
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 3: Which is also like, well, then how the hell do

685
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 3: we talk about her on the fucking show. She's been

686
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 3: dead the whole time? And I video drum you.

687
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 2: Know, yes, okay, And then a TV set reaches out

688
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 2: with a fleshy hand and shoots Max, but it doesn't

689
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 2: kill him. It just switches the channel away from the

690
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 2: video drome. That's you know, kind of controlling his thoughts

691
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 2: and movements. And now he's compelled by the idea of

692
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 2: death to video Drome Long Live the New.

693
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 3: Flesh, Yeah, which is what is he saying but also

694
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 3: sounds cool, and he says it.

695
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 5: Also it's like the first time that they've said it,

696
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,479
Speaker 5: and there's like ten minutes left and they just.

697
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,919
Speaker 3: Keep saying it for the next ten minutes and you're like, oh, yeah,

698
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 3: that phrase we know and love and just hear it.

699
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 2: Yes, okay. So then Max goes back to Harlan, who

700
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 2: puts this like fleshy throbbing VHS tape into the vagina VCR.

701
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 3: Cheering, cheering, we love it.

702
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: We're like woo hoo. But his slit eats off Harlan's

703
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 2: hand and then Harlan explodes.

704
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 3: Very teeth two thousand and nine vibes.

705
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: Very teeth true.

706
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 3: Yes.

707
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,919
Speaker 2: Then Max goes to Barry Convex's trade show where people

708
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: are dancing that's what you were talking about, Jamie, and

709
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: Max shoots Barry Convex while he's yelling death to Videodrome,

710
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 2: long Live the New Flesh.

711
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 5: He gets on the microphone and says it yeah, and

712
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 5: then he doesn't mic drup.

713
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 3: He's like, Okay, whoa what are you saying at that

714
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 3: trade show? Is just like, well, this weird thing happened

715
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 3: at one point, but other than that, it was a

716
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 3: lovely event.

717
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 5: I love my new glasses. Yea.

718
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: So he kills Barry Convex, and then Barry Convex's guts

719
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 2: and brains are like wriggling their way out of his body.

720
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 2: And then Max runs off and goes to the harbor

721
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 2: and goes into this like condemned ship and inside is

722
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 2: another TV set and Nikki brand is on it and

723
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 2: she's like, Okay, you damaged videodrome, but you didn't kill it.

724
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 2: It still exists, and to fully destroy it you have

725
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 2: to move on to the next phase Jesus, which means

726
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 2: that he has to become the new flesh and get

727
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 2: rid of the old flesh aka he has to kill

728
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 2: his human body so that he can live inside of

729
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 2: a TV or something.

730
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 5: Has risen, you know.

731
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

732
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

733
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 5: At the end, it was like, Jesus, I.

734
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 3: Despise this character so much. You are not gonna sell

735
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 3: me on a christ allegory at the very end of

736
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 3: this damn movie. Nice try, David, I don't think So.

737
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 5: He died twice for our sins.

738
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got I go sins.

739
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 5: Oh my god.

740
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 3: Jesus also famously had a gun in his stomach, so

741
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 3: it makes sense.

742
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: Okay, So Max realizes what he has to do, which

743
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 2: he does. He puts his gun that's fused to his

744
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 2: hand up to his head. He says, long Live the

745
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 2: New Flesh, and then the movie cuts to black as

746
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 2: we hear a gunshot and that's the end of the movie.

747
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 2: So let's take another quick break and we'll come back

748
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: to discuss to video drum and then video drum.

749
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,439
Speaker 3: Video drum. We're back. It's video drum to video drum.

750
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 3: You're watching video drum and that's messed up? Or is it?

751
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 3: But it is?

752
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 2: What if?

753
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 3: Is it?

754
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 2: What if the Bechdel cast has the same effect on

755
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 2: people as video drum and it's like brainwashing.

756
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 3: It makes them want to kill people.

757
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 2: Let's hope not. Anyway, where do we start?

758
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 3: Oh boy, well, I kind of. I mean, let's let's

759
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 3: start by talking about women, as we have been known

760
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 3: to do from time to time over the years. Yeah, yeah,

761
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 3: I think that, Like it's Cronenberg. I was sort of

762
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 3: reviewing the many waves of discourse that has gone around

763
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 3: about David Cronenberg's movies because they're so body horror focused,

764
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 3: because they're very often body horror focused in a way

765
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 3: that feels like explicitly like things are happening to women

766
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 3: or it's about women. And there's been a few different ways,

767
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 3: like some I think I read some mid twenty tens

768
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 3: discourse that argues his entire body of work is inherently misogynists,

769
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 3: which I disagree with. But then there's moments where I

770
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 3: don't like. I think I just find him confusing enough

771
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 3: that I'm maybe overly excusing things. But there's I don't know,

772
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:36,319
Speaker 3: as far as videodrome goes, I'm not like offended by

773
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 3: anything that is being explored. I just am like, Wow,

774
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 3: this guy really has some things to figure out about

775
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 3: how he feels about I don't know, I don't know

776
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 3: what did What did you all think about? I guess

777
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 3: especially like the body horror specifically, and then we can

778
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 3: sort of go character by character A stomach vagina, I say, sure.

779
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean we've talked about vagina monsters in

780
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 2: a lot of movies, and specifically which horror movies.

781
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 3: Which he is a huge proponent of, and I think that,

782
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,879
Speaker 3: like I guess, the closest you can get is with

783
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 3: the with the various vagina monsters we've covered. It's like

784
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 3: usually a male hoteur that maybe sees a vagina as

785
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 3: something very threatening and confusing that wants to destroy, and

786
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,879
Speaker 3: there's elements of that here, because it's like that is

787
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 3: like the thing that you are inserting the tape into

788
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 3: very heteronormative body horror in order to like destroy.

789
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 5: But then he like uses it. It starts being this

790
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 5: like freaky thing and then it becomes him and then

791
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 5: the character like accepts it and it's almost good. I

792
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 5: don't know, right.

793
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's like by the end of the movie,

794
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 3: this movie's so confusing, yeah, because it's like there are

795
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 3: certain we've got a variety of slits here. We've gotten

796
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 3: the video drome slit and that that is like a

797
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 3: source of evil and chaos. But then by the end,

798
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 3: the James Woods stomach slit is a source is like

799
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 3: what saves him, but also he kills people with it.

800
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 3: So you're like, I don't know, I don't know. I

801
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 3: think it is safe to say that David Cronenberg's a

802
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 3: big fan of the vagina monster. There's I really want

803
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 3: to rewatch the Twin Gynecologist movie because there maybe that's

804
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 3: a Patreon thing, but it's just bizarre, and like I

805
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 3: think part of because I just rewatched The Fly as well,

806
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 3: it's interesting that these are Usually it's like the male

807
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 3: protagonist that's undergoing the body horror physical transformation, and women

808
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 3: suffer as a result of it. Women bear witness to it,

809
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,720
Speaker 3: but it's mostly like the body horror is their problem.

810
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 3: It's not something that they are experiencing.

811
00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like at the end, Nikki's like, you're still changing,

812
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,280
Speaker 5: and it's like she's talking to like a little sister

813
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 5: getting her period or something like there's still you're still

814
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 5: becoming like the woman you need to be or I

815
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 5: don't know.

816
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 3: Or like Geena Davis in The Fly, like she's just

817
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,839
Speaker 3: taking care of Jeff Goldblum as he turns into a fly,

818
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 3: showing him compassion and sympathy and like, you know, stuff

819
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 3: that good qualities. But it's just like, yeah, this is

820
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 3: just her problem. This, Yeah, And I think that that

821
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 3: is like an interesting thing to explore. I don't think

822
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 3: it's done particularly well in video drum, though, I.

823
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 2: Guess I appreciate that because so much body horror in

824
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 2: horror movies is at the expense of women, and it's like,

825
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 2: look at this woman who is like over fifty, right

826
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 2: and or not attractive by traditional Western beauty standards, and

827
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:58,240
Speaker 2: therefore she's a hag who is like slimy and rotting,

828
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 2: and all the body horror is like right at the

829
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 2: expense of her like size and age, and it's just

830
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 2: like a very heightened grossness that is attributed to or

831
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 2: like connected with or conflated with like an older woman.

832
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 2: That's what so much of body horror is. So I

833
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 2: appreciate that the movie isn't doing that, but I think

834
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 2: it's just.

835
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 3: I think that women are just like sort of incidental

836
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 3: to this story in a way that makes it and

837
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 3: so I think, like, yeah, having and again this is

838
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 3: like very obviously we'd like, I don't want to be

839
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 3: overly prescriptive in describing women as inherently connected to vaginas,

840
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 3: but it the way that like, it's it's bizarre to

841
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 3: see so much vagina specific body horror while most of

842
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 3: the women are incidental to the story, right, You're like, yeah,

843
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 3: it feels like having it both ways in a way

844
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 3: that feels undercooked. I don't know. I feel like there

845
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 3: are some directors in their body of work where you

846
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 3: can feel kind of an open hostility towards women, and

847
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,879
Speaker 3: I don't feel that in David Cronenberg's work. I think

848
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 3: he just kind of like doesn't understand them well enough

849
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 3: to write them.

850
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 5: I wonder he seems really like fascinated because I mean,

851
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 5: I mean, I feel like I would argue that he's like,

852
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 5: I don't know, having the slit is making him like

853
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 5: a woman. Again, not saying that having a vagina makes

854
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,959
Speaker 5: you a woman, but it seems like he's like really

855
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,959
Speaker 5: fascinated by like female suffering and he's like it must

856
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 5: be so hard to have all these holes and like things.

857
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 2: And things come out of them like igor and I

858
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 2: don't understand. Yeah, I think he's like I get the

859
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 2: impression that he's like scared of women.

860
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, which is like good he should be. He

861
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 3: should be afraid of us, But like, I don't know,

862
00:50:55,040 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 3: it feels like a curiosity fascination that never I mean really,

863
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 3: and even though I'm a fan of his work, he

864
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 3: never quite he never gets it. It's so funny because

865
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 3: it's like when you watch like a Julia du Cerno movie,

866
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 3: she gets it frame one and that's but like I

867
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 3: feel like Chroniberg has like spent a lot of his

868
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 3: career being like women, what's going on there, what's going

869
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 3: on with their bodies? And why he doesn't quite get there.

870
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 3: But I don't think it's like an offensive or for

871
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 3: the most or at least in the space of this movie.

872
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 3: I just am like, he's just a little all over

873
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 3: the place with it. Yeah, and I guess I wish well, actually, Kaitlyn,

874
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 3: speaking to your point, Yeah, that, like you see, I

875
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 3: always think of the Shining when we talk about like

876
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 3: making a woman over fifty just inherently grotesque, the scariest thing.

877
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 2: The Shining VI Suspiria eighteen Ye just discussed. There's countless examples.

878
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 3: So so many in a way that feels just like, oh,

879
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 3: this is a reflection of the values of who's making it.

880
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:03,320
Speaker 3: They're like, oh, yeah, well, older woman equals scary, grotesque, nasty.

881
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean you have in with Masha. You

882
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 3: do have an older woman in this movie who is

883
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 3: I mean, she does experience. That's the tricky part, because

884
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 3: it's like Masha is just kind of generally a fabulous

885
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 3: character and like she is not subject to the kind

886
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 3: of like leering cruelty that you would often see older

887
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 3: women be subject to.

888
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 5: She's almost sextualized also like.

889
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, like she's like a cool, hot, horny older lady.

890
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 3: But then as the movie, it's the same thing with

891
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 3: the Debbie Hairy character, where it feels like they're being

892
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 3: presented pretty non judgmentally, but then they experience suffering later on.

893
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 2: Well, right, so this is what I don't I mean, well,

894
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 2: this is what I don't get, and I also don't

895
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 2: get everything else. But so every woman you see is

896
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 2: brutalized at some point in the movie, either by Max

897
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 2: Wren actually physically, or it's a part of his hallucination,

898
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 2: or maybe it's always him hallucinating but some of it's

899
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 2: self inflicted, or is it just Max when hallucinating that

900
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 2: because you see various like when Nikki burns herself with

901
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 2: a cigarette and or she wants Max to like inflict

902
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 2: cutting on her. So I don't know what to make

903
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 2: of any of that, because the movie is also asking us.

904
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 2: The movie is like, hey, let's root for this guy,

905
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 2: or at least the movie is following a man who

906
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 2: is obsessed with snuff film where women are being brutalized.

907
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 2: He thinks it's awesome. He hears that it's real, and

908
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 2: that women are actually dying. He doesn't deter him. He

909
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 2: is like, yeah, more of this and then yeah, you

910
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 2: see various scenes where he assaults a woman or hallucinates

911
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 2: that he has assaulted a woman.

912
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 3: But it's like, that's what It's so confusing to me

913
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 3: that by the end we're supposed to be like yeah,

914
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 3: James Woods, because it felt are we like I don't,

915
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 3: I don't know, that's the confusing.

916
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 5: Like well, I feel like in like a like another David,

917
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 5: the other David Lynch who's like like Twin Peaks, that

918
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,720
Speaker 5: Bob character is supposed to represent like the evils of man,

919
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 5: you know, and I feel like maybe David Cronenberg is

920
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 5: like James Woods is like the evils of man.

921
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 3: I don't know.

922
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 5: I think he's I think he's trying to do like

923
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 5: a pro woman thing in this movie, but like in

924
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 5: a really goofy way that not necessarily effective, but him

925
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 5: being like you see how bad men can be.

926
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, well and that came through. That came through for

927
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 3: me at a bunch of points. But yeah, it's I mean,

928
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 3: it's whatever. This is just like kind of classic ou

929
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 3: tour man director thing where it's like, yeah, this is

930
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 3: a pro women movie where all of the women are

931
00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 3: brutalized and they disappear halfway through the movie. But it

932
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 3: is very pro women and I have proof in your

933
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 3: like exact whatever. But like, yeah, I mean I don't

934
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 3: think that we're supposed to be like cheering for James Woods.

935
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,280
Speaker 3: I think it's just because the movie becomes so narrowly

936
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,879
Speaker 3: focused on him specifically as the movie goes on, because

937
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 3: we get this spread of a lot of interesting characters,

938
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 3: but then they're you know whatever, killed off, brutalized, We're

939
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:24,879
Speaker 3: dead the whole time, all this confusing stuff And yeah,

940
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 3: there are so many which is wild because there's so

941
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 3: many interesting women in the space of this story that

942
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 3: kind of like get lost. I think Nicky I don't

943
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,800
Speaker 3: love her arc but she has one, but it's like Masha,

944
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 3: she kind of disappears. Bianca like that sort of gets

945
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 3: dropped a little bit. I'm like, bring back poor Rena.

946
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 3: The host like Bridey is just sort of a witness

947
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 3: to violence and keeps showing up for James Woods. Anyways,

948
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 3: there's a lot of women in this movie, but they

949
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 3: but like they don't have And I liked h with

950
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 3: the Bianca character. I liked where you sort of start

951
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,959
Speaker 3: with her where she's you know, I mean, it turns

952
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 3: out she's saying this because her dad has been dead

953
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 3: for a year. But she's like, my father and I

954
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 3: don't have conversations he has, we have. He does monologues

955
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 3: and like examining that and like that father daughter relationship,

956
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 3: and you're like, that's interesting. But then it kind of

957
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 3: gets dropped as well. I don't know. There was so

958
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,479
Speaker 3: much interesting stuff presented in this movie, and I think

959
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 3: I just was sort of bummed that it ends up

960
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 3: zoning in on what it does, because it felt like

961
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 3: there was a lot to explore.

962
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 2: A if it's if the movie is like commentary on

963
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 2: you know, the corruption and the moral decay of society

964
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 2: that is caused by mass media and like excessive violence

965
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 2: and like exploited sexuality on TV, which I was like, Okay,

966
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 2: what is that? What Cronenberg trying to say? Like what

967
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 2: has he said about this movie and like what his

968
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,840
Speaker 2: intentions are with it? And I found a quote in

969
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 2: an interview where Cronenberg says, quote, it's very hard for

970
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 2: me to say what Videodrome is about. In a sense,

971
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 2: I think it's totally misleading to say it's a criticism

972
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 2: of television or that it's an extension of network. I

973
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 2: think he's referring to another movie he made called Network

974
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 2: of Blood, but I also don't know what he means

975
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 2: by that anyway. Back to the quote, I think it's

976
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 2: totally misleading to say that it's a criticism of television

977
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 2: or that it's an extension of network or something like that.

978
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 3: It really is.

979
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 2: Exploring what I've been doing all along, which is to

980
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 2: see what happens when people go to extremes in trying

981
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 2: to alter their total environment to the point where it

982
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 2: comes back and starts to alter their physical selves.

983
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 3: Unquote, I think he's referring to them movie Network, which

984
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 3: is also about TV.

985
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 2: I thought that too, maybe right exactly, so that is

986
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 2: possibly what he meant as well. In any case, that

987
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 2: quote is just as confusing to me as the plot

988
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 2: of the movie. So I still don't know quite what

989
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 2: he's saying or what his intentions were with Video Drum.

990
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 5: He's just like, I just have ideas that I want

991
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 5: to floor.

992
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 3: I just thought horny TV and kind of just like

993
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 3: went from there.

994
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 5: But because like everyone else left for the day and

995
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 5: you're home all alone and you get horny because you

996
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 5: want to watch.

997
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 3: Horn But like, what if that was like a cool,

998
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 3: smart movie. Yeah, I don't that's surprising to hear because

999
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 3: I felt like that was like what the movie was

1000
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 3: circling around, which I don't even think, Like I don't

1001
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 3: even disagree with that message. It feels dated in a

1002
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 3: way where it's like, I don't know, sex and violence

1003
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 3: on TV is corrupting our children. Yeah, it's very like

1004
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 3: Reagan era kind of messaging, and it's interesting seeing it

1005
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 3: in kind of like an art movie. This like sort

1006
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 3: of it feels like a very like I don't know,

1007
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 3: authoritative like this. I remember having to write an essay

1008
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 3: about why violence on TV was bad for me in

1009
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 3: the fifth grade in like whatever, the two thousands, and

1010
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 3: it's like this is just like messaging that's been coming

1011
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 3: out as forever and it's I mean, it's obviously a

1012
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 3: more complicated issue than that. I like, yeah, I don't think,

1013
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 3: you know, young people should watch a shitload of sex

1014
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 3: and violence on TV, but I think when it's like

1015
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 3: prescribed to everyone where it's like no one can watch

1016
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 3: sex and also the fact that and I think that

1017
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 3: Kronenberg I don't know, maybe he isn't trying to say this,

1018
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 3: but like conflating sex and violence as like equally damaging

1019
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 3: images to take in, because those are always the two

1020
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 3: things that are brought up as like, well, this is

1021
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 3: what's fucking people up. And you're like, I'm I'm willing

1022
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 3: to say violence is, yeah, but sex not so much.

1023
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 3: But I don't. I mean, apparently he didn't mean any

1024
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 3: of that in that way, and so so who I don't.

1025
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 2: Know knows, But I still think, like, you know, he's

1026
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 2: focused on the extreme of what people might do in

1027
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 2: response to like being influenced by sex and violence. I

1028
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 2: keep thinking of the theme song for Family Guy, where

1029
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 2: she's like fine lanced in movies and sex on TV.

1030
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,479
Speaker 3: Oh, yes, we should cover Family Guy on this show.

1031
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 5: Oh okay.

1032
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 2: But I guess he's like criticizing the extreme of what

1033
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 2: that might do to people. But I also, I don't know,

1034
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 2: I'm just like it feels like a weird Oh you're

1035
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 2: you're blaming people for being corrupted by media without stopping

1036
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 2: to think, like, Okay, who is making most of mass media?

1037
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 2: Why are those people making this media? What their values?

1038
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 2: What do they think is marketable?

1039
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 3: And the answer is that the Max character is doing

1040
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 3: though right, like he kind of represents the like curator

1041
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 3: aspects of like and and this shame like I guess

1042
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 3: going back to like him not being a character we're

1043
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 3: rooting for, is that, like he is the one that

1044
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 3: is curating all of this, like with with no care

1045
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 3: about like who's going to see it. It's just about

1046
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 3: profits and keeping the station on air. So I feel

1047
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 3: like there is like common but again it's it's it

1048
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 3: gets so muddled that it's confusing.

1049
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 2: Especially by the end, where it's like, right, if he's

1050
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 2: like an I guess not even an anti hero because

1051
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 2: we're not, like, I'm not on board with anything he's doing.

1052
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 2: But if the movie is trying to comment on something,

1053
01:01:54,280 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 2: then why do we keep following his journey? And then

1054
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, he has to destroy video Drone, But

1055
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 2: it's not because of any conclusion he draws himself. It's

1056
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 2: because like his brainwashing just got switched over to now

1057
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 2: Bianca Oblivion is brainwashing him or kind of controlling him

1058
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 2: or something, and it's all just too I don't know.

1059
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 2: It's just one of those movies where it's like it's

1060
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 2: it's too experimental. Almost to I actually have like a

1061
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 2: clear narrative, so it's hard to analyze in any meaningful way.

1062
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard to meet the movie where it's at,

1063
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 3: because I have no idea where it's at.

1064
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 5: I know, yeah, I think it's like a part of

1065
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 5: a League of or just like a string of movies

1066
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 5: where men are concerned about technology becoming autonomous, and I

1067
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 5: don't know, maybe in a way technology is woman video

1068
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 5: drone right right.

1069
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 3: Well that's like the other thing too, is like yeah

1070
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 3: woman is machine. Was like, yeah, yeah, okay. We talked

1071
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 3: a little bit about Nikki. I wanted to go back

1072
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 3: to her for a second because she's a very confusing character.

1073
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 3: And then you're sort of told like, well, don't worry

1074
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 3: about how confusing it was because she was dead and

1075
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 3: so she was a hallucination, so like, don't worry about it.

1076
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 2: The inception effect, yes always yes.

1077
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

1078
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 5: I kind of thought that they knew each other already

1079
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 5: in like a better call soul way where I was like, oh, there,

1080
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 5: they're just.

1081
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 3: I'm confused about like how she could have been dead

1082
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 3: the whole time if we see her in person so much,

1083
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 3: it's like she was on TV. I'm assuming other people

1084
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 3: could see her. She couldn't have been in a hallucination way.

1085
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 5: She was dead the whole time or when she went

1086
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 5: to Pittsburgh not.

1087
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 3: Clear anyways, So it is it is the inception effect

1088
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 3: where you're like, well, can we even talk about this

1089
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 3: character as a woman if she strictly theoretically exists as

1090
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 3: the projection of a man? Right? Oh, we don't really know,

1091
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 3: but for the sake of doing it anyways, one thing

1092
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 3: I did, like, I don't know, and I probably accidental

1093
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 3: from Cronenberg, but how she like said like, yeah, there

1094
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 3: is too much sex and violence on TV, and I

1095
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 3: worry about how it affects people. And then she like

1096
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 3: immediately bails on anything she was saying the second that

1097
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:21,080
Speaker 3: she gets horny, and I was like, okay, I've done that, yeah,

1098
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 3: fair enough. But and then like she's you know, into

1099
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 3: like sato masochistic stuff. Yeah, I feel like, I mean,

1100
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 3: I've seen that presented worse in movies where it's like

1101
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 3: at very least like in the scenes where it happens,

1102
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 3: there is I I was like, okay, nineteen eighty three,

1103
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 3: like there is like consent involved, Yeah, And she says

1104
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 3: like this turns me on I want you to do

1105
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 3: this to me, and so it it. I don't know.

1106
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 3: I think in a way that if that those conversations

1107
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 3: hadn't happened, it would have been creepy gaulish and the

1108
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 3: stuff that we see pray frequently.

1109
01:04:58,480 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 5: It's something that she wants.

1110
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's something that she asks for and uh, you

1111
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 3: know whatever, he's happy to do it and that's the business.

1112
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 3: But I don't know, I just wanted to give that

1113
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 3: little crumb of like, all right, good job movie. Consent,

1114
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 3: Yeah took place.

1115
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 2: But I don't know exactly what the movie is saying.

1116
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 2: But it also seems to be conflating like like a

1117
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 2: sado masochistic kink with corruption, right, yeah, for sure, and

1118
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 2: that she's doing this because of like she has this

1119
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 2: kink because she's been corrupted.

1120
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:37,880
Speaker 5: In the hypnotizing and oozled right.

1121
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:41,680
Speaker 2: Like it's part of the moral decay of society.

1122
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 3: You can only be kinky if you've watched video drum,

1123
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 3: you're like, well, no, some people are kinky and then

1124
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 3: they go to work. Yeah. I don't know, again, a

1125
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 3: mixed bag, but I was surprised at consent being presented

1126
01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:59,920
Speaker 3: at all in a movie from the early eighties true,

1127
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 3: and then we have I mean we've talked about Masha.

1128
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 3: I feel like she's just like a generally under serviced character,

1129
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 3: and then she comes back to be like we she disappears,

1130
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 3: and then she comes back to be abused, and then

1131
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 3: she's really gone. Bianca, I think, is a really interesting

1132
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 3: character who is also kind of dropped throughout the movie.

1133
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 3: I don't know, Yeah, we just had a lot of

1134
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 3: interesting beginnings and.

1135
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 2: No follow through. I mean, I guess Bianca comes back

1136
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 2: around because she's the one who's like, I release you

1137
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 2: from your control. Videodrome has over you, but now you

1138
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 2: have to carry out my agenda, right death to Videodrome.

1139
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 2: Long Live the New Flesh, which, like you know, I

1140
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 2: don't know what that means, but it's a woman in

1141
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 2: chard but.

1142
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 3: It's active, it's active. Yeah, I mean she's like running

1143
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 3: her dad's weird business question mark after he dies. I mean,

1144
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 3: she's she definitely moves the platforward quite a bit. But

1145
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 3: just like like with most of the characters, you're like,

1146
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 3: what is going on with her?

1147
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, despite knowing that her philosophy is long Live

1148
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 2: the New Flesh, because I don't exactly understand what that

1149
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 2: means or what her actual values are. I could not

1150
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 2: like ever get a handle on what she actually wants

1151
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 2: or what she's trying to do because she's so cryptic

1152
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 2: in the way she.

1153
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 3: Talks, right, which she takes after her father in that way. Yes,

1154
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,320
Speaker 3: but yeah, I mean I think it would have been

1155
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 3: interesting and again was just given her more to do,

1156
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 3: and like if maybe she had had a different vision

1157
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 3: for video drum than her father. Wasn't just carrying out

1158
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 3: his wishes and was like had her own vision. I mean,

1159
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 3: there were so many ways that this movie could have

1160
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 3: been eaten just as like gross and confusing, and the

1161
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 3: many women we meet could have been like more meaningfully

1162
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 3: involved than it had, like moved the plot along in

1163
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 3: a more interesting way.

1164
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 2: Especially because like all of the I mean videodrome whatever

1165
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 2: it may be, but when we see it, when it's

1166
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 2: the version of him watching a videotape or some like

1167
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 2: broadcast or what he thinks is a broadcast, where it's

1168
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 2: a naked woman being brutalized, and it's unclear if it

1169
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:32,479
Speaker 2: is acting, it's unclear if it's actually real. It's unclear

1170
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 2: if this woman is like consenting to what's happening or

1171
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:41,879
Speaker 2: if she's not whatever it is, because it's so unclear,

1172
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:45,840
Speaker 2: you just sort of have to maybe guess that she's

1173
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 2: being tortured against her will and then apparently murdered. And

1174
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 2: I guess my point is, like, because so much of

1175
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:59,479
Speaker 2: the violence we see is directed at women, why then

1176
01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:03,720
Speaker 2: do we not see like women try to rise up

1177
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 2: and fight against this? Or I don't know, it's just like, right,

1178
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 2: everyone seemed I mean, speaking of oblivion, Brian oblivion, everyone

1179
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:16,800
Speaker 2: just kind of seems oblivious as to what's happening, or

1180
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 2: like when, for example, when Masha finds out like it's

1181
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:24,799
Speaker 2: not acting, it's real, why does she not do something

1182
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:26,559
Speaker 2: to try to stop it?

1183
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 3: Or yeah, it's it is confused. Yeah, again, it's obviously

1184
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 3: very different because the time is different and the director

1185
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 3: is so unique and I like him a lot, but

1186
01:09:38,280 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 3: like it reminds me of yeah, like the wave of

1187
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:45,800
Speaker 3: movies that came out post Me Too from famous male

1188
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 3: directors that were like, all right, I gotta say something,

1189
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:53,240
Speaker 3: but what am I gonna say? And you're just girls,

1190
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 3: We've been pretty mean to him, right, and like just

1191
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:59,879
Speaker 3: it's all kind of is like even if the intent

1192
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 3: is good, which it isn't always necessarily. I think in

1193
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:06,720
Speaker 3: Cronenberg's case, I don't feel animosity towards women. I just like,

1194
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:09,120
Speaker 3: what do you really have to say?

1195
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:09,679
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1196
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:15,600
Speaker 3: About you know? But that's fine. I don't know. Is

1197
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 3: there anything else people? I wanted to talk about?

1198
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:22,840
Speaker 2: Nothing that I can articulate into words because I can't

1199
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 2: understand what I saw. But fun fact, so I think

1200
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 2: a couple of years before this, Kronenberg directed a movie

1201
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:35,800
Speaker 2: called Scanners, which was a box office success, which led

1202
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 2: him to be offered Return of the Jedi. Wow, people like,

1203
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 2: you should direct Return of the Jedi because Scanners was

1204
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 2: a hit, and He's like, no, I don't want to

1205
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 2: direct any material produced by other filmmakers. So he turned

1206
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 2: it down. But can you imagine what a Kronenberg Return

1207
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 2: of the Jedi would have been? I cannot. Another fun fact,

1208
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 2: different endings were shot this movie. Yes, I was once

1209
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:07,600
Speaker 2: again consulting scholarly journal Wikipedia.

1210
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was.

1211
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:10,559
Speaker 3: One of them.

1212
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 2: Was the ending we see in the film, which was

1213
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 2: apparently James Woods's idea. He's like, what if I shoot

1214
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 2: myself on the ship?

1215
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 5: So Jeremy strong of him.

1216
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 2: Another ending was Max Bianca and Niki appear on the

1217
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:34,760
Speaker 2: set of Video Drome, and Bianca and Nicky also have

1218
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 2: the slits in their abdomen, out of which come like

1219
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 2: mutated sex organs, like they pop out of their slits

1220
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 2: like that, and that would have been cool. And then

1221
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 2: another ending featured an orgy where Max, Bianca and Nicki

1222
01:11:56,479 --> 01:12:01,599
Speaker 2: have sex and there's different like I think body horror

1223
01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:05,719
Speaker 2: sex organs that are they're using in the orgy.

1224
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 3: I feel like this is just like a really fun

1225
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:13,120
Speaker 3: h illustration of how like, yeah, Cronenberg is just like horny.

1226
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:16,360
Speaker 3: He's like, well, here's three different horny endings and we'll

1227
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 3: just kind of see which one is.

1228
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:22,559
Speaker 5: The horn that ended with the ladies. If the ladies

1229
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 5: came back.

1230
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:25,879
Speaker 3: That would be yeah, I mean, that would be closer

1231
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 3: to what it seems like he wanted to do now

1232
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:29,120
Speaker 3: that I'm.

1233
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:32,600
Speaker 5: Like, if the girls had slits, do you think Cronenberg

1234
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 5: is thinking of it as a vagina or just a slit?

1235
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:36,840
Speaker 3: I don't.

1236
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 5: I wonder if you've never never even occurred to him.

1237
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 3: Oh, that would be embarrassing for him, But I don't.

1238
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 3: I genuinely don't know. I like because all of his interview,

1239
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:54,160
Speaker 3: all the interviews around this as illustrated are baffling and

1240
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:56,600
Speaker 3: do not support what I thought he was trying to

1241
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 3: say so hilarious.

1242
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 5: I don't know, have you seen Brandon cherryfle No, it's

1243
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 5: a show. I think I'm one of three people have

1244
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 5: seen it. But there's a scene where she keeps throwing

1245
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:09,600
Speaker 5: up these cats and because like a witch put a

1246
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,040
Speaker 5: curse on her, and I want to stop throwing up

1247
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,519
Speaker 5: these cats, like stop it, and she's like, fine, you

1248
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:18,400
Speaker 5: won't throw up any cats. And then she gets a

1249
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 5: slit in her rib cage and it's like this rib

1250
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 5: cage vagina, and she keeps like birthing these little cats,

1251
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 5: and then eventually she gets fucked in her rib cage

1252
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 5: vagina with a hand. Oh it's very similar.

1253
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 2: I see.

1254
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 3: I love body horror so much.

1255
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:34,720
Speaker 5: I feel like, why would you do that?

1256
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 3: Stop.

1257
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 5: I went to the Medieval Museum and I was like,

1258
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 5: oh my god, people are putting boobs on necks. You know,

1259
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:48,439
Speaker 5: a slit can go anywhere. I mean, yeah, uh.

1260
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 2: The only other thing I wanted to comment on was

1261
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:55,640
Speaker 2: and I think these characters are supposed to like represent

1262
01:13:55,920 --> 01:14:01,760
Speaker 2: the like industry and how the values of like the

1263
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 2: entertainment industry are usually weird because it's run by sis

1264
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 2: had white men mostly, but it's those guys who are

1265
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:14,840
Speaker 2: like watching that porn in the beginning that they think

1266
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 2: is like too soft and innocent, right, just like the

1267
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 2: way that they're talking about like porn from East Asia

1268
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:24,720
Speaker 2: and how they can like capitalize on like fetishes and

1269
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:27,160
Speaker 2: stuff like that. It just like felt icky, but I

1270
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:30,679
Speaker 2: think it's supposed to be icky, but no one really

1271
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:34,400
Speaker 2: challenges it in the scene, so I'm not totally sure.

1272
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:37,120
Speaker 3: And come back either well, and then you have that

1273
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 3: like that exchange at the end that also felt very

1274
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:45,960
Speaker 3: Reagan era where he's like North Americans are too soft, yea,

1275
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:49,080
Speaker 3: And it just felt like they were talking about stuff

1276
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:53,160
Speaker 3: that supernationalistic people still talk about today of like you know,

1277
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 3: everyone out east is coming for us, and I'm like,

1278
01:14:56,400 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 3: I don't even know if he was thinking about. Yeah, yeah,

1279
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:05,120
Speaker 3: it did feel exactly. And then you're like, and that's

1280
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 3: why we need to have snuff films in Canada, and

1281
01:15:09,120 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 3: you're just like, huh, a little convoluted, a little bizarre,

1282
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:15,200
Speaker 3: but yeah, it just felt like that scene in particular

1283
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:17,720
Speaker 3: was like so eighties in a way. And I'm not

1284
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:20,760
Speaker 3: trying to suggest that I think Cronenberg feels that way obviously,

1285
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:23,439
Speaker 3: like the bad guys are the ones saying it. But

1286
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:26,560
Speaker 3: it was just like, well, what's all this? Then? What

1287
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:29,280
Speaker 3: is he trying to say? And then in the interviews

1288
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:33,080
Speaker 3: it seems like he's not sure. He doesn't know, however,

1289
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:36,519
Speaker 3: says that this movie passes the Bechdel test in a

1290
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 3: fun way to tell me it passes. During the TV

1291
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 3: broadcast between Rena and Niki Oh right, Rena says, what

1292
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:47,000
Speaker 3: about it? Nikki? Is it socially positive? And she says, well,

1293
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:49,639
Speaker 3: I think we live in overstimulated times. We crave stimulation

1294
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:51,840
Speaker 3: for its own sake, We gorge ourselves on it. We

1295
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:54,800
Speaker 3: always want more, whether it's tactile, emotional, or sexual. And

1296
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:58,719
Speaker 3: I think that's bad. And that's the exchange the passes.

1297
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:00,679
Speaker 3: I mean, James Woods, is there no one is talking

1298
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:01,680
Speaker 3: to or about him?

1299
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:05,600
Speaker 2: True, But then right after that, he's like, you hypocrite,

1300
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 2: You're wearing a red dress, which is like the whole like,

1301
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:11,960
Speaker 2: oh but what was she wearing? Did she was she

1302
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:12,800
Speaker 2: asking for?

1303
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:13,599
Speaker 3: It? Is like the.

1304
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 2: Vibes that conversation gives off.

1305
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:18,360
Speaker 3: That's why I thought it was a funny pass because

1306
01:16:18,439 --> 01:16:21,640
Speaker 3: she immediately is hit on and never speaks to a

1307
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:24,639
Speaker 3: woman for the rest of the movie. Again. Right after

1308
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 3: that exchange.

1309
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:28,679
Speaker 5: It is it's so true to life. You can pass

1310
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:32,880
Speaker 5: the Bechdel test in real life and then base yourself is.

1311
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:37,400
Speaker 2: Great relatable yeaheah, Well, what about our nipple scale though,

1312
01:16:37,439 --> 01:16:41,920
Speaker 2: the perfect metric on which we write a movie zero

1313
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:46,760
Speaker 2: to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist.

1314
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:48,719
Speaker 3: Lens like bo.

1315
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:56,320
Speaker 2: But I'll give the movie one vagina slit ooh and

1316
01:16:56,479 --> 01:16:58,720
Speaker 2: interpret that how you will. But what I mean by

1317
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:04,320
Speaker 2: that is I'll give the movie one nipple because I

1318
01:17:04,360 --> 01:17:09,639
Speaker 2: think there is commentary to be made on the way

1319
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:15,599
Speaker 2: media influences individuals and society. In fact, that is what

1320
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:20,240
Speaker 2: our show is. We are commenting on that media influence.

1321
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:22,360
Speaker 3: But this is basically video drum.

1322
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:24,840
Speaker 2: We are video drum. If you were wondering what video

1323
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:27,600
Speaker 2: drum was the whole time, the answer is it's the

1324
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:32,280
Speaker 2: Bechdel cast. But I think we usually make sense and

1325
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:36,080
Speaker 2: present a clear analysis, whereas I don't really know what

1326
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:41,679
Speaker 2: Cronenberg is saying half the time, and he's often showing

1327
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:46,599
Speaker 2: a bunch of brutalization of women in a way that

1328
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:51,280
Speaker 2: I don't really know what his intentions are, and yeah,

1329
01:17:51,439 --> 01:17:54,680
Speaker 2: just not really characterizing the women in a way that

1330
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:59,679
Speaker 2: makes any sense, and not letting them have fully fleshed

1331
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:04,559
Speaker 2: out stories or really contribute anything to this story aside

1332
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 2: from and twist they were dead for a long time,

1333
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:13,160
Speaker 2: or twist they were a hallucination, or you know whatever.

1334
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 2: None of it makes sense to me, And I'll give

1335
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:20,080
Speaker 2: it one nipple and I'll give it to w Harry.

1336
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:24,519
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm gonna go two and a half on

1337
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:27,760
Speaker 3: this one. I agree with you, Caitlin. I think that

1338
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 3: this movie is like kind of like I mean, it's

1339
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:37,680
Speaker 3: visually incredible, but story wise really messy and confusing, and

1340
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 3: it sounds like Cronenberg struggled to get this movie to

1341
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:42,439
Speaker 3: a place where it even sort of made sense, and

1342
01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:44,600
Speaker 3: it still kind of doesn't. But I'm gonna give it

1343
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:46,439
Speaker 3: two and a half because I like the women that

1344
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:50,559
Speaker 3: we meet. I think that at least the first half

1345
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:54,439
Speaker 3: of this movie I really enjoyed because you get a

1346
01:18:54,920 --> 01:18:58,720
Speaker 3: wide spread of women, they have a widespread of opinions,

1347
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:01,519
Speaker 3: we know what their jobs are, they're cool, it seems

1348
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:04,920
Speaker 3: like the movie respects them. And then in the back

1349
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:06,880
Speaker 3: half that kind of goes away in a way that

1350
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:09,360
Speaker 3: I found really frustrating, and then tried to end on

1351
01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:15,639
Speaker 3: this like sort of pro woman's sort of anti media

1352
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 3: message that fell flat because I just feel like the

1353
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:24,920
Speaker 3: James Woods character is just like so repugnant that I

1354
01:19:25,200 --> 01:19:28,640
Speaker 3: struggled with it. But I think it was like an

1355
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:31,519
Speaker 3: attempt to say a lot of things. I think I

1356
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:34,519
Speaker 3: agreed with what he was saying for the most part,

1357
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:37,920
Speaker 3: and I just like David Cronenberg's I'm probably ranking it

1358
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:41,280
Speaker 3: too high. Two and a half nipples from me. I'm

1359
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:42,880
Speaker 3: going to give one to Debbie Harry, I'm gonna give

1360
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:45,960
Speaker 3: one to Masha, and I am going to give one

1361
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:48,679
Speaker 3: to the waiter that or the half to the waiter

1362
01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 3: that Masha had sex with.

1363
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 2: Melissa.

1364
01:19:52,040 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 3: How about you.

1365
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:56,679
Speaker 5: I think were given three stars, and I think the stars,

1366
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:02,360
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, believable. I'm so sorry, the stars

1367
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:07,440
Speaker 5: are over the covering them up because.

1368
01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:10,560
Speaker 2: Because because we can't be seeing sex gets too scandalous

1369
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:11,719
Speaker 2: and it will corrupt us.

1370
01:20:11,680 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 5: All exactly, and we're not in Canada and we can't

1371
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:23,240
Speaker 5: see lude stuff on local access television or whatever. I think, well,

1372
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:25,559
Speaker 5: I think I just like I don't know if he's

1373
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:28,080
Speaker 5: like the first guy to like do this, but it

1374
01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:32,920
Speaker 5: is interesting seeing like similar imagery like in movies now,

1375
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:36,719
Speaker 5: like in Cam or like even in Big Mouth where

1376
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:39,559
Speaker 5: kid gets so like addicted to his phone that the

1377
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:42,880
Speaker 5: phone starts like horny talking to him, and like I

1378
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:46,720
Speaker 5: found it fun for him to. I like seeing him

1379
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:50,519
Speaker 5: like explore these ideas of like like addiction to screen

1380
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:54,479
Speaker 5: and sex and corruption and in like a almost not

1381
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:57,720
Speaker 5: primitive way, but just like in it's like the beginnings

1382
01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:01,559
Speaker 5: of someone thinking about this, and it's never like fully

1383
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 5: formed thought, but I'm like, oh yeah, like people are

1384
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:07,599
Speaker 5: still thinking about this and you know, worried about like

1385
01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:13,599
Speaker 5: brain damage with screens and horn and that kind of thing.

1386
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:17,160
Speaker 5: And I also I really liked the DeBie Hairy character,

1387
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:21,200
Speaker 5: the Masha character. It was it's cool to see an

1388
01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:25,519
Speaker 5: older woman be be funny and sassy. And I think,

1389
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 5: I mean as like fugged up as it is. The

1390
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:31,920
Speaker 5: scene where he's like whipping the screen and she's on

1391
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:36,400
Speaker 5: it is like really a tour interesting. But yeah, I

1392
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:39,559
Speaker 5: mean I think, like I'm like, what if a woman

1393
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:41,599
Speaker 5: did this, I think maybe it would be better.

1394
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, it's like and I feel like Cronenberg's work

1395
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:51,519
Speaker 3: at least paved the way for women's body horror that

1396
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,080
Speaker 3: I like much better. I feel like, without Cronenberg, you

1397
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:56,960
Speaker 3: probably wouldn't have a Julia du Cernaut down the line.

1398
01:21:57,040 --> 01:21:58,040
Speaker 2: That's true.

1399
01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:01,519
Speaker 3: So I appreciate it from that because yeah, I just

1400
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:03,559
Speaker 3: feel like because she's.

1401
01:22:03,439 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 5: My favorite, right, Yeah, and I think she's a lot

1402
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:11,280
Speaker 5: more successful and like talking about grand unified theory of

1403
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:19,560
Speaker 5: female pain or whatever or whatever or whatever. So yeah,

1404
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 5: and I watched it and I was like, oh, yeah,

1405
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:23,559
Speaker 5: this is kind of a similar to my book, but

1406
01:22:23,720 --> 01:22:28,960
Speaker 5: as a woman, a woman a video drum experience, I'm like, oh,

1407
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:32,880
Speaker 5: I think I I explored it in a different way,

1408
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:35,240
Speaker 5: but you'll have to booth to understand what I mean.

1409
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:39,679
Speaker 5: And Okay, so the three nipples go to Debbie Harry

1410
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:44,799
Speaker 5: and oh the girl who wakes him up in the morning,

1411
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:46,080
Speaker 5: and it's like, this is your.

1412
01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:47,480
Speaker 2: Own oh BRIDI his assistant.

1413
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:52,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, she was cool, and I'm going to give

1414
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:57,000
Speaker 5: one to the to the chest pussy the amins lit

1415
01:22:57,720 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 5: she so hard.

1416
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 2: It's our video cassette recorder, more like vagina cassette recorder.

1417
01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:09,519
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, Melissa, thank you so much for coming back.

1418
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:10,000
Speaker 3: On the show.

1419
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:12,439
Speaker 5: Thank you for having me again so fun, oh.

1420
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:14,640
Speaker 3: My gosh, and remind us where we can get your

1421
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:17,040
Speaker 3: book and where we can find you on the internet.

1422
01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 5: You can get my book wherever they're sold, preferably not Amazon,

1423
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:28,280
Speaker 5: local bookstore, bookshop, dot org, eBay. And you can follow

1424
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:32,040
Speaker 5: me at E L L O Melissa on all social

1425
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:33,280
Speaker 5: media platforms.

1426
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:38,200
Speaker 2: O hell, Yes, you can follow us on social media

1427
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:43,680
Speaker 2: platforms at Bechdel Cast. You can go to our Patreon

1428
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:49,360
Speaker 2: slash Matreon at patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, where

1429
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:52,879
Speaker 2: you'll get two bonus episodes every single month, plus access

1430
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 2: to the back catalog of well over one hundred bonus episodes.

1431
01:24:00,200 --> 01:24:03,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can also get our merch at teapublic

1432
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 3: dot com slash the Bechtel Cast. With that, let's pull

1433
01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:14,439
Speaker 3: a gun out of our slits and videodrome.

1434
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:17,200
Speaker 2: Whatt's video drome all the way home.

1435
01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:20,479
Speaker 5: Boom boom, bye bye