Speaker 1: Hey listeners Jessica here. Be sure to check out new
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Speaker 2: She told me about it to some degree before they
Speaker 2: came to stay in my home. I never really investigated it.
Speaker 2: I never really asked her more about it. He is
Speaker 2: a very pushy person. Around a person like that, you
Speaker 2: hesitate to wait into any conversation, much less something you're
Speaker 2: not interested in. I think she was under a lot
Speaker 2: of pressure to bring money in and to provide, but
Speaker 2: at the same time not allowed to leave, because I
Speaker 2: think it's part of what held her in place after
Speaker 2: she was ready to leave. Is she had this dirty secret.
Speaker 1: We all have our secrets, right, the things that only
Speaker 1: select few know about, or that we keep tucked away
Speaker 1: for no one to ever see or know. Most of
Speaker 1: us are fortunate enough to be in control of our secrets,
Speaker 1: our narrative. For a long time. That's what Jessica did.
Speaker 1: She had her secrets, and for various reasons, she kept
Speaker 1: them to herself. But near the end of her life
Speaker 1: she started to open up a little, namely with Maria,
Speaker 1: who first heard about Jessica and Justin's not so side
Speaker 1: hustle while they were staying at her home for Thanksgiving
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: When she first started telling me about it, I just
Speaker 2: thought they were bored. I thought they were a couple
Speaker 2: in their forties. Maybe the spark was gone. They spend
Speaker 2: too much time together, so maybe they were just trying
Speaker 2: to spice things up. I was like, you know, whatever,
Speaker 2: do you if that's entertaining to you. I didn't know
Speaker 2: that it was really for the income the way I
Speaker 2: think it turned out to be, so, even when they
Speaker 2: were in my home, I never knew their stage names.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you call it a stage name online.
Speaker 2: They're online names. I never knew their alter egos, and
Speaker 2: at one point she was sitting on my couch and
Speaker 2: she was like, see, look these people are tipping. And
Speaker 2: she was like looking at some app Apparently it's very
Speaker 2: user friendly, and there were like little coins floating across
Speaker 2: the screen the same way people do likes or hearts
Speaker 2: or whatever when somebody's like doing a live stream on Facebook.
Speaker 2: So these little coins are floating across the screen, and
Speaker 2: she was like, see he's tipping them. I was like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: how much is that little tip worth? She was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's like five cents. I remember us joking back and forth,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I wonder if I could just
Speaker 2: put my feet on there, like while I'm doing my files,
Speaker 2: if some weirdo wants to look at my feet and
Speaker 2: send me some money, Like I could be okay with that,
Speaker 2: Like that's not too risky and my face would never
Speaker 2: be involved. I was like, I wonder if somebody wants
Speaker 2: to pay me for my feet, But I mean I
Speaker 2: want to be a weirdo about my feet, like knock
Speaker 2: yourself out, here's my vemo. Yeah, but the conversation never
Speaker 2: really got any further than that. This really I'm not
Speaker 2: trying to put my naughty bits on the internet in
Speaker 2: perpetuity for my grandkids to look up like no Nana.
Speaker 1: While Maria was able to keep it all lighthearted, even
Speaker 1: joking about it, Learning that Jessica was performing sex shows
Speaker 1: online for money was a pretty startling peak into her
Speaker 1: life with Justin, and it was certainly a new revelation
Speaker 1: to her family. But Maria thinks it was more about control.
Speaker 2: I think that she would have done anything that he
Speaker 2: wanted her to do because she really just wanted to
Speaker 2: make him happy. I'm not going to completely alleviate her
Speaker 2: of all responsibility, because you know, she was an adult,
Speaker 2: so it's possible that she wanted to experiment with the
Speaker 2: sexual stuff that they were doing online, as possible that
Speaker 2: she wanted to experiment with drugs. But that was not
Speaker 2: at all the Jessica that I knew growing up. The
Speaker 2: Jessica that I knew growing up was the sort of
Speaker 2: girl that was comfortable wearing a strand of pearls and
Speaker 2: an updue because we worked in the casino industry together,
Speaker 2: when people would get into like salacious or scandalous situations,
Speaker 2: she'd be like, we are Southern ladies, like you do
Speaker 2: not do that, So it was a huge departure from
Speaker 2: who I knew her to be. She was a shadow
Speaker 2: of her former self.
Speaker 1: To friends and family, Jessica may have become somewhat of
Speaker 1: a shadow of herself, but she was still Jessica, the
Speaker 1: girl they'd known and loved for most of her life
Speaker 1: well before the camming. But to a whole community online,
Speaker 1: she was known as Vivian and her partner was Lance.
Speaker 1: These were Jessica and Justina's camming names. So what exactly
Speaker 1: is camming?
Speaker 3: Well, it's different for everyone but me and my wife specifically.
Speaker 3: We just go on camera and people will pay us
Speaker 3: for our time. So if we're camming for an hour
Speaker 3: for a specific person, then we request a specific dollar
Speaker 3: amount per minute, and that's how we get paid. People
Speaker 3: are viewing us on the screen. We have a camera
Speaker 3: in front of us that's looked up to the computer
Speaker 3: and it's live, so everything we do is live.
Speaker 1: This is Ken, well that's his camming name, alongside his wife, Barbie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Ken and Barbie.
Speaker 4: I am Ken and my wife is Barbie.
Speaker 3: And we met Justin and Jessica through the camming community.
Speaker 1: In fact, as far as we know, they are the
Speaker 1: only camers to have ever met up with Vivian and
Speaker 1: Lance inside their home and saw them together as a couple,
Speaker 1: But it's an experience they regretted almost from the start.
Speaker 1: More on that in just a minute. The young couple
Speaker 1: got into camming after he lost his other online fortune.
Speaker 3: I made a pretty hefty fortune on bitcoin when I
Speaker 3: was in high school, and being young and having a
Speaker 3: decent fortune, you don't really know how to spend it.
Speaker 3: So me and my wife we dug ourselves in a
Speaker 3: hole living in Miami. We needed something to keep us
Speaker 3: going and keep us alive and off the streets, so
Speaker 3: we chose to start camming, and it worked out really
Speaker 3: well for us, so we just stuck with it ever since.
Speaker 4: We really enjoyed the job because we get to spend.
Speaker 3: All of our time together, one of us just having
Speaker 3: to leave the house go to work and things like that.
Speaker 4: So it works for us.
Speaker 3: So, you know, immediately a bunch of cam people started
Speaker 3: reaching out to us, like, oh, Wow, you're going to
Speaker 3: do so.
Speaker 4: Good at this.
Speaker 3: You're gonna you're gonna be able to retire by the
Speaker 3: time you're thirty, blah blah blah, And you know, just
Speaker 3: like trying to flatter us, trying to get close to us.
Speaker 4: And we thought that was normal. And it turns.
Speaker 3: Out that for the most part, that a lot of
Speaker 3: them were trying to use us because we were naive
Speaker 3: to the canning community and how it works.
Speaker 4: So people were trying to get us to.
Speaker 3: Help them in different ways, and it just seemed to
Speaker 3: us like everyone's out for themselves and trying to like
Speaker 3: make their into the deal better.
Speaker 4: Me and my wife, we kind of stay in our
Speaker 4: own little bubble. We don't really talk to anyone else.
Speaker 1: Kin says that while there is a darker side to
Speaker 1: the camming community, he and Barbie stay away from that.
Speaker 1: It's kind of how the community works. You only do
Speaker 1: what you feel comfortable with.
Speaker 3: I mean, every single person out there has a different
Speaker 3: experience camming. One experience is not the same as another's.
Speaker 3: Some people have really bad experiences camming, and some people
Speaker 3: have really good experiences camming. There's definitely some bad stigma
Speaker 3: about the sex industry, and you know, for what it's worth,
Speaker 3: I'm sure a lot of it's true.
Speaker 4: I'm not denying that.
Speaker 3: But that's why we stick to camming, because we get
Speaker 3: to create our own rules and boundaries. So if anyone
Speaker 3: steps over those boundaries, we can put an end to
Speaker 3: it by a click of a button. If we feel
Speaker 3: offended or threatened in some way, then all we got
Speaker 3: to do is hit the block button and they disappear.
Speaker 4: We do this together, and only together.
Speaker 3: We don't talk to any other cameras, we don't post
Speaker 3: on so media really. Ever, we just realized that it's
Speaker 3: best to stay in your own little bubble and not
Speaker 3: try to get too far out there and meet too
Speaker 3: many people, because so far, all the people that we've met,
Speaker 3: they've ended in like really crazy experiences.
Speaker 1: One of those crazy experiences for Ken and Barbie was
Speaker 1: meeting Vivian and Lance at their home in New Orleans.
Speaker 1: When we sat down with Ken, he shared his personal
Speaker 1: experience and opinions from that in person meeting, and from
Speaker 1: here on out in this episode, we'll go back to
Speaker 1: referring to them as Jessica and Justin.
Speaker 3: They were trying to get close to us early on
Speaker 3: because they knew that we would be successful at this job,
Speaker 3: and from the very beginning things turned out really well
Speaker 3: for us. We didn't really have to worry about money
Speaker 3: or anything like that, and they just kind of reached
Speaker 3: out to us, and then they started to call more
Speaker 3: and try to reach out to us more. They were
Speaker 3: really really easy to get along with, mostly her Jessica.
Speaker 4: She was really easy to get along with.
Speaker 3: She just kind of reeled us in and gave us
Speaker 3: someone to talk to that was in the industry.
Speaker 4: We were new to it.
Speaker 3: We didn't know anything. So if we had any kind
Speaker 3: of questions, they would help us out with that, and
Speaker 3: we just talked to them. I don't know, I'd say
Speaker 3: maybe once.
Speaker 4: Or twice a month she would call.
Speaker 3: As that went on, they started feeling closer to us
Speaker 3: and whatnot. So I guess they felt comfortable asking us
Speaker 3: for money here and there. They would ask us for
Speaker 3: like one hundred bucks, and we didn't know what their
Speaker 3: situation was. And I'm too nice sometimes if people need help,
Speaker 3: I'm usually willing to help. So whenever they had asked
Speaker 3: me for money, I just did it. I didn't think
Speaker 3: anything of it. I knew that they had a daughter,
Speaker 3: and I knew that they.
Speaker 4: Probably weren't doing that well. I don't remember.
Speaker 3: Them telling us that they had a job, so camming
Speaker 3: was how they were making money, and every single time
Speaker 3: they cam they weren't really doing that well, that kind
Speaker 3: of made us sad. So yeah, we would help every
Speaker 3: now and then. And I don't regret it.
Speaker 4: It's whatever.
Speaker 3: I just wish I would have known them better before
Speaker 3: we really got involved with their lives.
Speaker 1: But their meetup wasn't really something they had planned. It
Speaker 1: was just by happenstance. They'd driven to Pensacola, Florida to
Speaker 1: meet with a friend of Barbie's, but the friend never showed.
Speaker 4: We were like, what the heck?
Speaker 3: We drove all the way down here, so what could
Speaker 3: we do to make it a trip that's not wasted?
Speaker 3: And we remember that Jessica and Justin they.
Speaker 5: Lived in New Orleans and that was just a little
Speaker 5: bit farther.
Speaker 4: So we called them up.
Speaker 3: And we asked them if it'd be cool if we
Speaker 3: came down to hang out.
Speaker 1: Before they even arrived at Jessica and Justin's house, they
Speaker 1: see their first red flag.
Speaker 3: We were basically asking them if it was cool if
Speaker 3: we come by, and that's whenever they started texting us.
Speaker 3: And then they randomly texted us a pipe and I
Speaker 3: didn't know if it was a crack pipe or a
Speaker 3: met pipe. I don't know the difference. If there is
Speaker 3: a difference or what. But they sent me a pipe
Speaker 3: that looked like you smoke drugs out of it. And
Speaker 3: when they did that, we were like, what is this.
Speaker 3: I was like, you're joking. I Like, I asked them
Speaker 3: if they were joking, and they're like they would send
Speaker 3: back like an emoji, a lack emoji or an LOL
Speaker 3: or something and be like, yeah, we're just messing with you.
Speaker 3: We were skeptical, but then they said that they were
Speaker 3: a joke, and we just took it for what it was.
Speaker 4: Like, we thought that they were joking.
Speaker 3: If we were texting someone, we didn't know if it
Speaker 3: was Justin or Justica. We had no idea, and I'm
Speaker 3: pretty sure sometimes she would act like her whenever he
Speaker 3: was texting us, Like sometimes we detext We're like, this
Speaker 3: feels like it's Justin texting us right now. We didn't
Speaker 3: think anything of that until we met them, and then
Speaker 3: we saw how he was. It all happened so gradually,
Speaker 3: it's like they just reeled us in.
Speaker 1: When Ken and Barbie pull into the driveway at their
Speaker 1: Lakeview home, everything seems fine at.
Speaker 4: First, everything's cool.
Speaker 3: At first, he kind of looks like he's cracked out,
Speaker 3: which we thought was weird at first, but then we
Speaker 3: kind of just blew it off because we didn't want
Speaker 3: to be mean.
Speaker 5: Or we just didn't want to make a scene or
Speaker 5: make them feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Justin's di me is something Ken remembers vividly.
Speaker 3: He looked like he was on some kind of drug
Speaker 3: that was like speed, Like it was making him talk
Speaker 3: really fast and like make really weird movements and stuff.
Speaker 3: And we didn't know if that was just his personality
Speaker 3: or if he was on drugs.
Speaker 4: We didn't know. He told us he took Adderall prescribed adderall,
Speaker 4: so we didn't know if it was that either.
Speaker 3: But anyway, we came into this whole situation non judgmental.
Speaker 4: We just like, this is our first time meeting him.
Speaker 3: We just wanted to meet him, and we didn't want
Speaker 3: to make a big deal out of it.
Speaker 1: Ken and Barbie quickly realize they're not the only other
Speaker 1: ones in the house. Soon they'd meet Justin's daughter and
Speaker 1: noticed that his elderly father was there too. Though they
Speaker 1: never spoke.
Speaker 5: He was always in the other room with the lights off.
Speaker 5: You could just see him the doorway.
Speaker 3: That's another reason why it was sketchy, Like he never
Speaker 3: introduced himself to me. He never spoke a word to me.
Speaker 3: Justin said the whole time, I could just ignore him,
Speaker 3: don't talk to him. I just thought it was the
Speaker 3: weirdest thing.
Speaker 1: As the visit continues, their concerns for Jessica begin to fester.
Speaker 4: We were most scared for her.
Speaker 3: It's like, she's stuck here with these crazy people.
Speaker 4: I just don't understand. I don't understand how she's at
Speaker 4: that house.
Speaker 1: Kin's growing impression of Justin kept signaling to him that
Speaker 1: something was just off about this whole thing.
Speaker 4: He tried to sell me a gun.
Speaker 3: He showed me a bunch of pictures on his phone
Speaker 3: and he was like, I can get you one of these.
Speaker 3: You just send me three thousand dollars cash and I'll
Speaker 3: get you one. He's trying to make money. I don't
Speaker 3: even know if he had as real guns or if
Speaker 3: he's just showing people pictures on his phone trying to
Speaker 3: make a quick dollar.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: They'd say that he used to be in the Marines
Speaker 3: whenever he was showing me guns. That's where I thought
Speaker 3: he had guns from, was being in the military. And
Speaker 3: I didn't ask to see them because I didn't.
Speaker 4: Care about him.
Speaker 3: He offered to buy me a gun or sell me
Speaker 3: a gun, and I was like, I'm good, and he
Speaker 3: just had a lot of sketchy games.
Speaker 1: Pushing past the awkward hit chat and gun pedaling, the
Speaker 1: two couples tried to make the most out of the
Speaker 1: visit and do what they do cam, but that turned
Speaker 1: out to be kind of a bust too.
Speaker 3: We planned to do a cam show did like a
Speaker 3: big bathtub is kind of like a hot tub. It
Speaker 3: was a work thing and it just wasn't good going well. Jessica,
Speaker 3: she seemed uncomfortable. It just wasn't working, and we just
Speaker 3: kind of hung.
Speaker 4: Out and talked some more until nighttime came.
Speaker 1: But as night fell, things took a turn.
Speaker 3: Justin he pulls out Mas and they both start smoking
Speaker 3: it and they try to get us to smoke it,
Speaker 3: and we're like, no, we don't want to smoke it.
Speaker 3: So we're just kind of awkward. We're not very comfortable
Speaker 3: with the situation.
Speaker 4: They had a.
Speaker 3: Little container I've never seen math before. I don't know
Speaker 3: the quantity of what it was. They had this little
Speaker 3: contact lens and it was full of it.
Speaker 4: It just kind of gets kind of weird. We don't
Speaker 4: want to like say that we want to leave.
Speaker 3: We were too nice, so we just kind of stuck
Speaker 3: around while they did math. They were okay at first,
Speaker 3: I mean they were like the same. They were just
Speaker 3: a little up, you know, their nerves and everything, and
Speaker 3: they were just up and like full of energy.
Speaker 1: And in no time at all, the shit hits the fan.
Speaker 4: They just start out of nowhere.
Speaker 3: They like start yelling at each other, and I don't
Speaker 3: know what it has to do with because they were
Speaker 3: whispering and stuff before.
Speaker 4: They start really yelling at each other.
Speaker 3: And we thought that we could basically be a mediator
Speaker 3: but make the situation calm down a bit and like
Speaker 3: figure out what's going on and why they're so upset.
Speaker 4: So we're like, hey, what's going on?
Speaker 3: And I have to like really get in there and
Speaker 3: be like, okay, hey, how about we separate? And Jessica
Speaker 3: goes in our car and Justin stays in the room,
Speaker 3: and I start talking to Justin.
Speaker 4: My wife goes and talks to Jessica.
Speaker 3: And Justin is all over the place, like half the time,
Speaker 3: I can't even understand what he's saying, but he's calling
Speaker 3: her all kinds of names, and he's saying that he's
Speaker 3: going to do stuff to her, and I'm like, what
Speaker 3: the fuck is going on here? He was calling her
Speaker 3: a bitch and a whore and stuff like that, and
Speaker 3: he was gonna beat her and just you know, really
Speaker 3: violent stuff.
Speaker 4: He was out of his mind at that moment.
Speaker 3: He was mad because Jessica said that she wanted to
Speaker 3: have sex with me, and I was like, okay, that
Speaker 3: makes sense why you're mad.
Speaker 4: Then I go to the car and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 4: so what's going on?
Speaker 3: And Jessica just seems scared, you know, she just seems
Speaker 3: like she's scared. She doesn't want to talk to him,
Speaker 3: she doesn't want to see him. She's sitting in the
Speaker 3: car crying, just saying that she's just scared, and we
Speaker 3: felt bad for her.
Speaker 4: At that point. We go back inside. I tell Justin.
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, Jessica's gonna come back in here, but
Speaker 3: you have to stop yelling and you have to stop
Speaker 3: being so violent.
Speaker 4: And he was like okay, right.
Speaker 3: Whenever Jessica watched the door, he starts screaming and yelling again,
Speaker 3: and We're like, what the heck. This is exactly the
Speaker 3: opposite of what you said you were gonna do.
Speaker 4: So things weren't working out.
Speaker 3: I tried one last time to tell him that he
Speaker 3: needs to calm down, and he freaked out on me.
Speaker 3: He said, if you don't shut the fuck up, then
Speaker 3: I'm gonna splatter your head against the wall. He threatened
Speaker 3: to bash my head into the wall. And at that moment,
Speaker 3: I was genuinely scared. He was a way bigger guy
Speaker 3: than me, and it just gotten out of control. I
Speaker 3: don't know how far he was willing to go or
Speaker 3: if he was actually gonna hurt me, so at that moment,
Speaker 3: we were like, okay, we're going to grab our bags
Speaker 3: and we're going to go.
Speaker 1: But before they left, the couple tried to help a hysterical,
Speaker 1: inconsolable Jessica.
Speaker 4: Jessica, she follows us to the door and she was
Speaker 4: like crying, she was sobbing. She was like, I'm so sorry,
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry. And then we were like, okay, listen, Jessica,
Speaker 4: we're going to a hotel.
Speaker 3: If you want to come with us, you can't just
Speaker 3: hop in the car with us, and she was like
Speaker 3: I can't, I can't, I can't go, and we were like, listen,
Speaker 3: you need to come in the car with us.
Speaker 4: And we're going to go to a hotel for a
Speaker 4: couple of days.
Speaker 3: It's not a big deal. You just need to get
Speaker 3: away from her. And she didn't listen. She was scared
Speaker 3: that he was going to do something more. I'm sure
Speaker 3: in that little sliver of time that we spent with them,
Speaker 3: we saw how violent he could.
Speaker 4: Get and we figured that it wasn't going to end well.
Speaker 3: Just because of that experience, it was just the weirdest
Speaker 3: weekend we've ever had.
Speaker 4: After we left and went back.
Speaker 3: Home, they called us like a week later, and it
Speaker 3: was really just them apologizing and saying sorry, like over
Speaker 3: and over again, and we basically just let them know
Speaker 3: that we don't want to speak to them ever again.
Speaker 4: We told them to stop calling us, and I think
Speaker 4: that was the most blunt we ever were with them.
Speaker 3: It was easier not having to be face to face
Speaker 3: with them, just to be able to tell them over
Speaker 3: the phone.
Speaker 4: But they listened. They didn't call us ever again.
Speaker 1: This all happened just a few months before Jessica vanished.
Speaker 1: The unsettling experience has stuck with Kin and Barbie. They've
Speaker 1: thought about it ever since they left That day. But
Speaker 1: when they caught wind that Jessica was found dead, that's
Speaker 1: when they really started having thoughts.
Speaker 3: We think that Jessica had a good heart, and we
Speaker 3: think she was a good person and she was a
Speaker 3: pleasure to be around.
Speaker 4: Justin, on the other hand, was not well.
Speaker 3: I think what happened was Jessica might have came to
Speaker 3: her senses and was like, Okay, I got to get
Speaker 3: away from this guy.
Speaker 1: No matter the theories about what happened to Jessica, the
Speaker 1: fact remained she was gone. What was left were her remains,
Speaker 1: which had been released to Justin as her next of kin,
Speaker 1: though he hadn't claimed them. Instead, he took to the
Speaker 1: Internet to try and raise money for a funeral, one
Speaker 1: that Jessica's family had already offered to take care of.
Speaker 1: He created two separate GoFundMe accounts, one under her legal
Speaker 1: name Jessica, the other under her kimming name Vivian, and
Speaker 1: offering various items in return for donations, shoes, lingerie, even photos.
Speaker 6: He was sitting there selling her image. And then we
Speaker 6: tried to get all that stuff shut down, and the
Speaker 6: cop said that they would look into it, but they
Speaker 6: never did. They never did anything. It was us that
Speaker 6: got that all shut down, and there must have been
Speaker 6: like seven or eight porn sites. I ended up getting
Speaker 6: on Twitter in January and I put my story out
Speaker 6: there about Jessica, and I had at least thirty in
Speaker 6: box messages saying to me, what do you mean she
Speaker 6: died in August. He's been telling us in November, like
Speaker 6: no August. Everyone he was following. I went on his
Speaker 6: thing and I just started following all them people, and
Speaker 6: I started tagging him so that they would see my
Speaker 6: sister's story. It was just a mess. It was just
Speaker 6: it was chaotic. He was sitting there. It's like he
Speaker 6: didn't even have a care, Like he didn't even care
Speaker 6: about Jessica.
Speaker 1: The camming community was incensed, and they rallied, finding ways
Speaker 1: to shut down as many of his online accounts as possible,
Speaker 1: which seemed to stop him in his tracks. And while
Speaker 1: Jessica sat alone inside the coroner's office, unclaimed, her family
Speaker 1: couldn't get the one thing they wanted the most, Jessica.
Speaker 1: To make matters worse, they were also lacking answers about
Speaker 1: what happened to her. A quick visit from TODDNY to
Speaker 1: the New Orleans Police Department wouldn't lend any assurance as
Speaker 1: to where their investigation was headed.
Speaker 7: It's considered unclass Fried, so an on class Fried that
Speaker 7: leaves us in limbo because we're not allowed to make
Speaker 7: any more regard in a case because we don't have
Speaker 7: a determinate cause of dead, So no one here would
Speaker 7: be like trying to go out and find more information
Speaker 7: to fill in holes in what happened because it's the
Speaker 7: forensic stakes.
Speaker 1: Undetermined is a production of Resonate Recordings and Tenderfoot TV
Speaker 1: in conjunction with Caden's Thirteen, Written and hosted by me
Speaker 1: Jessica Nolan and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd Mcomas,
Speaker 1: with additional production by Whitney Bozart. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper,
Speaker 1: Mark Minnery, Jacob Bozart, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our
Speaker 1: senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing, mastering and sound
Speaker 1: design by Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole and Pat Kicklider of
Speaker 1: the Resonate Recordings team. If you have a podcast or
Speaker 1: are looking to start one, check us out at Resonate
Speaker 1: Recordings dot com. Our theme song and original score is
Speaker 1: by Dirt Poor Robbins, with additional scoring by Dayton Cole.
Speaker 1: Our cover art is by Station sixteen. You can follow
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