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Speaker 1: Hey listeners Jessica here. Be sure to check out new

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Speaker 1: episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts. For early and ad free listening, check out

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Speaker 1: Tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed

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Speaker 1: in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed

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Speaker 1: and participating in the show, and do not represent those

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Speaker 1: of Tenderfoot TV and Resonate recordings. All individuals described or

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Speaker 1: mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found

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Speaker 1: guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject

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Speaker 1: matter such as violence and graphic descriptions, which may not

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Speaker 1: be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: She told me about it to some degree before they

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Speaker 2: came to stay in my home. I never really investigated it.

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Speaker 2: I never really asked her more about it. He is

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Speaker 2: a very pushy person. Around a person like that, you

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Speaker 2: hesitate to wait into any conversation, much less something you're

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Speaker 2: not interested in. I think she was under a lot

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Speaker 2: of pressure to bring money in and to provide, but

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Speaker 2: at the same time not allowed to leave, because I

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Speaker 2: think it's part of what held her in place after

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Speaker 2: she was ready to leave. Is she had this dirty secret.

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Speaker 1: We all have our secrets, right, the things that only

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Speaker 1: select few know about, or that we keep tucked away

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Speaker 1: for no one to ever see or know. Most of

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Speaker 1: us are fortunate enough to be in control of our secrets,

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Speaker 1: our narrative. For a long time. That's what Jessica did.

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Speaker 1: She had her secrets, and for various reasons, she kept

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Speaker 1: them to herself. But near the end of her life

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Speaker 1: she started to open up a little, namely with Maria,

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Speaker 1: who first heard about Jessica and Justin's not so side

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Speaker 1: hustle while they were staying at her home for Thanksgiving

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Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: When she first started telling me about it, I just

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Speaker 2: thought they were bored. I thought they were a couple

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Speaker 2: in their forties. Maybe the spark was gone. They spend

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Speaker 2: too much time together, so maybe they were just trying

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Speaker 2: to spice things up. I was like, you know, whatever,

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Speaker 2: do you if that's entertaining to you. I didn't know

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Speaker 2: that it was really for the income the way I

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Speaker 2: think it turned out to be, so, even when they

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Speaker 2: were in my home, I never knew their stage names.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you call it a stage name online.

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Speaker 2: They're online names. I never knew their alter egos, and

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Speaker 2: at one point she was sitting on my couch and

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Speaker 2: she was like, see, look these people are tipping. And

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Speaker 2: she was like looking at some app Apparently it's very

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Speaker 2: user friendly, and there were like little coins floating across

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Speaker 2: the screen the same way people do likes or hearts

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Speaker 2: or whatever when somebody's like doing a live stream on Facebook.

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Speaker 2: So these little coins are floating across the screen, and

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Speaker 2: she was like, see he's tipping them. I was like, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: how much is that little tip worth? She was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's like five cents. I remember us joking back and forth,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, I wonder if I could just

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Speaker 2: put my feet on there, like while I'm doing my files,

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Speaker 2: if some weirdo wants to look at my feet and

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Speaker 2: send me some money, Like I could be okay with that,

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Speaker 2: Like that's not too risky and my face would never

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Speaker 2: be involved. I was like, I wonder if somebody wants

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Speaker 2: to pay me for my feet, But I mean I

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Speaker 2: want to be a weirdo about my feet, like knock

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Speaker 2: yourself out, here's my vemo. Yeah, but the conversation never

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Speaker 2: really got any further than that. This really I'm not

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Speaker 2: trying to put my naughty bits on the internet in

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Speaker 2: perpetuity for my grandkids to look up like no Nana.

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Speaker 1: While Maria was able to keep it all lighthearted, even

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Speaker 1: joking about it, Learning that Jessica was performing sex shows

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Speaker 1: online for money was a pretty startling peak into her

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Speaker 1: life with Justin, and it was certainly a new revelation

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Speaker 1: to her family. But Maria thinks it was more about control.

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Speaker 2: I think that she would have done anything that he

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Speaker 2: wanted her to do because she really just wanted to

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Speaker 2: make him happy. I'm not going to completely alleviate her

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Speaker 2: of all responsibility, because you know, she was an adult,

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Speaker 2: so it's possible that she wanted to experiment with the

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Speaker 2: sexual stuff that they were doing online, as possible that

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Speaker 2: she wanted to experiment with drugs. But that was not

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Speaker 2: at all the Jessica that I knew growing up. The

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Speaker 2: Jessica that I knew growing up was the sort of

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Speaker 2: girl that was comfortable wearing a strand of pearls and

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Speaker 2: an updue because we worked in the casino industry together,

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Speaker 2: when people would get into like salacious or scandalous situations,

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Speaker 2: she'd be like, we are Southern ladies, like you do

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Speaker 2: not do that, So it was a huge departure from

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Speaker 2: who I knew her to be. She was a shadow

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Speaker 2: of her former self.

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Speaker 1: To friends and family, Jessica may have become somewhat of

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Speaker 1: a shadow of herself, but she was still Jessica, the

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Speaker 1: girl they'd known and loved for most of her life

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Speaker 1: well before the camming. But to a whole community online,

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Speaker 1: she was known as Vivian and her partner was Lance.

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Speaker 1: These were Jessica and Justina's camming names. So what exactly

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Speaker 1: is camming?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's different for everyone but me and my wife specifically.

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Speaker 3: We just go on camera and people will pay us

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Speaker 3: for our time. So if we're camming for an hour

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Speaker 3: for a specific person, then we request a specific dollar

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Speaker 3: amount per minute, and that's how we get paid. People

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Speaker 3: are viewing us on the screen. We have a camera

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Speaker 3: in front of us that's looked up to the computer

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Speaker 3: and it's live, so everything we do is live.

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Speaker 1: This is Ken, well that's his camming name, alongside his wife, Barbie. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Ken and Barbie.

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Speaker 4: I am Ken and my wife is Barbie.

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Speaker 3: And we met Justin and Jessica through the camming community.

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Speaker 1: In fact, as far as we know, they are the

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Speaker 1: only camers to have ever met up with Vivian and

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Speaker 1: Lance inside their home and saw them together as a couple,

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Speaker 1: But it's an experience they regretted almost from the start.

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Speaker 1: More on that in just a minute. The young couple

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Speaker 1: got into camming after he lost his other online fortune.

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Speaker 3: I made a pretty hefty fortune on bitcoin when I

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Speaker 3: was in high school, and being young and having a

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Speaker 3: decent fortune, you don't really know how to spend it.

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Speaker 3: So me and my wife we dug ourselves in a

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Speaker 3: hole living in Miami. We needed something to keep us

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Speaker 3: going and keep us alive and off the streets, so

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Speaker 3: we chose to start camming, and it worked out really

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Speaker 3: well for us, so we just stuck with it ever since.

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Speaker 4: We really enjoyed the job because we get to spend.

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Speaker 3: All of our time together, one of us just having

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Speaker 3: to leave the house go to work and things like that.

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Speaker 4: So it works for us.

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Speaker 3: So, you know, immediately a bunch of cam people started

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Speaker 3: reaching out to us, like, oh, Wow, you're going to

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Speaker 3: do so.

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Speaker 4: Good at this.

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Speaker 3: You're gonna you're gonna be able to retire by the

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Speaker 3: time you're thirty, blah blah blah, And you know, just

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Speaker 3: like trying to flatter us, trying to get close to us.

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Speaker 4: And we thought that was normal. And it turns.

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Speaker 3: Out that for the most part, that a lot of

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Speaker 3: them were trying to use us because we were naive

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Speaker 3: to the canning community and how it works.

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Speaker 4: So people were trying to get us to.

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Speaker 3: Help them in different ways, and it just seemed to

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Speaker 3: us like everyone's out for themselves and trying to like

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Speaker 3: make their into the deal better.

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Speaker 4: Me and my wife, we kind of stay in our

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Speaker 4: own little bubble. We don't really talk to anyone else.

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Speaker 1: Kin says that while there is a darker side to

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Speaker 1: the camming community, he and Barbie stay away from that.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of how the community works. You only do

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Speaker 1: what you feel comfortable with.

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Speaker 3: I mean, every single person out there has a different

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Speaker 3: experience camming. One experience is not the same as another's.

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Speaker 3: Some people have really bad experiences camming, and some people

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Speaker 3: have really good experiences camming. There's definitely some bad stigma

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Speaker 3: about the sex industry, and you know, for what it's worth,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure a lot of it's true.

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Speaker 4: I'm not denying that.

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Speaker 3: But that's why we stick to camming, because we get

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Speaker 3: to create our own rules and boundaries. So if anyone

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Speaker 3: steps over those boundaries, we can put an end to

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Speaker 3: it by a click of a button. If we feel

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Speaker 3: offended or threatened in some way, then all we got

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Speaker 3: to do is hit the block button and they disappear.

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Speaker 4: We do this together, and only together.

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Speaker 3: We don't talk to any other cameras, we don't post

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Speaker 3: on so media really. Ever, we just realized that it's

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Speaker 3: best to stay in your own little bubble and not

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Speaker 3: try to get too far out there and meet too

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Speaker 3: many people, because so far, all the people that we've met,

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Speaker 3: they've ended in like really crazy experiences.

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Speaker 1: One of those crazy experiences for Ken and Barbie was

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Speaker 1: meeting Vivian and Lance at their home in New Orleans.

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Speaker 1: When we sat down with Ken, he shared his personal

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Speaker 1: experience and opinions from that in person meeting, and from

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Speaker 1: here on out in this episode, we'll go back to

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Speaker 1: referring to them as Jessica and Justin.

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Speaker 3: They were trying to get close to us early on

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Speaker 3: because they knew that we would be successful at this job,

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Speaker 3: and from the very beginning things turned out really well

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Speaker 3: for us. We didn't really have to worry about money

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Speaker 3: or anything like that, and they just kind of reached

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Speaker 3: out to us, and then they started to call more

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Speaker 3: and try to reach out to us more. They were

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Speaker 3: really really easy to get along with, mostly her Jessica.

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Speaker 4: She was really easy to get along with.

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Speaker 3: She just kind of reeled us in and gave us

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Speaker 3: someone to talk to that was in the industry.

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Speaker 4: We were new to it.

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Speaker 3: We didn't know anything. So if we had any kind

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Speaker 3: of questions, they would help us out with that, and

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Speaker 3: we just talked to them. I don't know, I'd say

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Speaker 3: maybe once.

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Speaker 4: Or twice a month she would call.

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Speaker 3: As that went on, they started feeling closer to us

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Speaker 3: and whatnot. So I guess they felt comfortable asking us

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Speaker 3: for money here and there. They would ask us for

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Speaker 3: like one hundred bucks, and we didn't know what their

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Speaker 3: situation was. And I'm too nice sometimes if people need help,

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Speaker 3: I'm usually willing to help. So whenever they had asked

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Speaker 3: me for money, I just did it. I didn't think

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Speaker 3: anything of it. I knew that they had a daughter,

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Speaker 3: and I knew that they.

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Speaker 4: Probably weren't doing that well. I don't remember.

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Speaker 3: Them telling us that they had a job, so camming

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Speaker 3: was how they were making money, and every single time

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Speaker 3: they cam they weren't really doing that well, that kind

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Speaker 3: of made us sad. So yeah, we would help every

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Speaker 3: now and then. And I don't regret it.

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Speaker 4: It's whatever.

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Speaker 3: I just wish I would have known them better before

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Speaker 3: we really got involved with their lives.

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Speaker 1: But their meetup wasn't really something they had planned. It

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Speaker 1: was just by happenstance. They'd driven to Pensacola, Florida to

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Speaker 1: meet with a friend of Barbie's, but the friend never showed.

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Speaker 4: We were like, what the heck?

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Speaker 3: We drove all the way down here, so what could

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Speaker 3: we do to make it a trip that's not wasted?

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Speaker 3: And we remember that Jessica and Justin they.

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Speaker 5: Lived in New Orleans and that was just a little

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Speaker 5: bit farther.

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Speaker 4: So we called them up.

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Speaker 3: And we asked them if it'd be cool if we

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Speaker 3: came down to hang out.

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Speaker 1: Before they even arrived at Jessica and Justin's house, they

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Speaker 1: see their first red flag.

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Speaker 3: We were basically asking them if it was cool if

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Speaker 3: we come by, and that's whenever they started texting us.

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Speaker 3: And then they randomly texted us a pipe and I

223
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Speaker 3: didn't know if it was a crack pipe or a

224
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,760
Speaker 3: met pipe. I don't know the difference. If there is

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Speaker 3: a difference or what. But they sent me a pipe

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Speaker 3: that looked like you smoke drugs out of it. And

227
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Speaker 3: when they did that, we were like, what is this.

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Speaker 3: I was like, you're joking. I Like, I asked them

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Speaker 3: if they were joking, and they're like they would send

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Speaker 3: back like an emoji, a lack emoji or an LOL

231
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Speaker 3: or something and be like, yeah, we're just messing with you.

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Speaker 3: We were skeptical, but then they said that they were

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Speaker 3: a joke, and we just took it for what it was.

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Speaker 4: Like, we thought that they were joking.

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Speaker 3: If we were texting someone, we didn't know if it

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Speaker 3: was Justin or Justica. We had no idea, and I'm

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00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,680
Speaker 3: pretty sure sometimes she would act like her whenever he

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Speaker 3: was texting us, Like sometimes we detext We're like, this

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00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,760
Speaker 3: feels like it's Justin texting us right now. We didn't

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00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,640
Speaker 3: think anything of that until we met them, and then

241
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,760
Speaker 3: we saw how he was. It all happened so gradually,

242
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:31,360
Speaker 3: it's like they just reeled us in.

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00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,960
Speaker 1: When Ken and Barbie pull into the driveway at their

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Speaker 1: Lakeview home, everything seems fine at.

245
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Speaker 4: First, everything's cool.

246
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,800
Speaker 3: At first, he kind of looks like he's cracked out,

247
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,920
Speaker 3: which we thought was weird at first, but then we

248
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,760
Speaker 3: kind of just blew it off because we didn't want

249
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Speaker 3: to be mean.

250
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,480
Speaker 5: Or we just didn't want to make a scene or

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Speaker 5: make them feel uncomfortable.

252
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,040
Speaker 1: Justin's di me is something Ken remembers vividly.

253
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Speaker 3: He looked like he was on some kind of drug

254
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,760
Speaker 3: that was like speed, Like it was making him talk

255
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:15,560
Speaker 3: really fast and like make really weird movements and stuff.

256
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,840
Speaker 3: And we didn't know if that was just his personality

257
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,080
Speaker 3: or if he was on drugs.

258
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Speaker 4: We didn't know. He told us he took Adderall prescribed adderall,

259
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Speaker 4: so we didn't know if it was that either.

260
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Speaker 3: But anyway, we came into this whole situation non judgmental.

261
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,240
Speaker 4: We just like, this is our first time meeting him.

262
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Speaker 3: We just wanted to meet him, and we didn't want

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Speaker 3: to make a big deal out of it.

264
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,400
Speaker 1: Ken and Barbie quickly realize they're not the only other

265
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:50,840
Speaker 1: ones in the house. Soon they'd meet Justin's daughter and

266
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,440
Speaker 1: noticed that his elderly father was there too. Though they

267
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Speaker 1: never spoke.

268
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,680
Speaker 5: He was always in the other room with the lights off.

269
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Speaker 5: You could just see him the doorway.

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Speaker 3: That's another reason why it was sketchy, Like he never

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Speaker 3: introduced himself to me. He never spoke a word to me.

272
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Speaker 3: Justin said the whole time, I could just ignore him,

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Speaker 3: don't talk to him. I just thought it was the

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Speaker 3: weirdest thing.

275
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:22,640
Speaker 1: As the visit continues, their concerns for Jessica begin to fester.

276
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Speaker 4: We were most scared for her.

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Speaker 3: It's like, she's stuck here with these crazy people.

278
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Speaker 4: I just don't understand. I don't understand how she's at

279
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:35,960
Speaker 4: that house.

280
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,440
Speaker 1: Kin's growing impression of Justin kept signaling to him that

281
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,880
Speaker 1: something was just off about this whole thing.

282
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:47,720
Speaker 4: He tried to sell me a gun.

283
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,440
Speaker 3: He showed me a bunch of pictures on his phone

284
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,760
Speaker 3: and he was like, I can get you one of these.

285
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,480
Speaker 3: You just send me three thousand dollars cash and I'll

286
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,360
Speaker 3: get you one. He's trying to make money. I don't

287
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,920
Speaker 3: even know if he had as real guns or if

288
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,240
Speaker 3: he's just showing people pictures on his phone trying to

289
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:06,879
Speaker 3: make a quick dollar.

290
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:07,719
Speaker 4: I don't know.

291
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:10,280
Speaker 3: They'd say that he used to be in the Marines

292
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,880
Speaker 3: whenever he was showing me guns. That's where I thought

293
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 3: he had guns from, was being in the military. And

294
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,200
Speaker 3: I didn't ask to see them because I didn't.

295
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:19,640
Speaker 4: Care about him.

296
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,520
Speaker 3: He offered to buy me a gun or sell me

297
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,680
Speaker 3: a gun, and I was like, I'm good, and he

298
00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:26,520
Speaker 3: just had a lot of sketchy games.

299
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,800
Speaker 1: Pushing past the awkward hit chat and gun pedaling, the

300
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,960
Speaker 1: two couples tried to make the most out of the

301
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:47,120
Speaker 1: visit and do what they do cam, but that turned

302
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 1: out to be kind of a bust too.

303
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,399
Speaker 3: We planned to do a cam show did like a

304
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 3: big bathtub is kind of like a hot tub. It

305
00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:02,000
Speaker 3: was a work thing and it just wasn't good going well. Jessica,

306
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,119
Speaker 3: she seemed uncomfortable. It just wasn't working, and we just

307
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:07,800
Speaker 3: kind of hung.

308
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,680
Speaker 4: Out and talked some more until nighttime came.

309
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,200
Speaker 1: But as night fell, things took a turn.

310
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:20,479
Speaker 3: Justin he pulls out Mas and they both start smoking

311
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,000
Speaker 3: it and they try to get us to smoke it,

312
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,400
Speaker 3: and we're like, no, we don't want to smoke it.

313
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Speaker 3: So we're just kind of awkward. We're not very comfortable

314
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Speaker 3: with the situation.

315
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 4: They had a.

316
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:36,439
Speaker 3: Little container I've never seen math before. I don't know

317
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 3: the quantity of what it was. They had this little

318
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,080
Speaker 3: contact lens and it was full of it.

319
00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,359
Speaker 4: It just kind of gets kind of weird. We don't

320
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,359
Speaker 4: want to like say that we want to leave.

321
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,119
Speaker 3: We were too nice, so we just kind of stuck

322
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:59,640
Speaker 3: around while they did math. They were okay at first,

323
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,080
Speaker 3: I mean they were like the same. They were just

324
00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:06,280
Speaker 3: a little up, you know, their nerves and everything, and

325
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,399
Speaker 3: they were just up and like full of energy.

326
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,720
Speaker 1: And in no time at all, the shit hits the fan.

327
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 4: They just start out of nowhere.

328
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,840
Speaker 3: They like start yelling at each other, and I don't

329
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 3: know what it has to do with because they were

330
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,119
Speaker 3: whispering and stuff before.

331
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:27,880
Speaker 4: They start really yelling at each other.

332
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,160
Speaker 3: And we thought that we could basically be a mediator

333
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 3: but make the situation calm down a bit and like

334
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,360
Speaker 3: figure out what's going on and why they're so upset.

335
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 4: So we're like, hey, what's going on?

336
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,479
Speaker 3: And I have to like really get in there and

337
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,200
Speaker 3: be like, okay, hey, how about we separate? And Jessica

338
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,640
Speaker 3: goes in our car and Justin stays in the room,

339
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:54,440
Speaker 3: and I start talking to Justin.

340
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 4: My wife goes and talks to Jessica.

341
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:04,400
Speaker 3: And Justin is all over the place, like half the time,

342
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 3: I can't even understand what he's saying, but he's calling

343
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 3: her all kinds of names, and he's saying that he's

344
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 3: going to do stuff to her, and I'm like, what

345
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,880
Speaker 3: the fuck is going on here? He was calling her

346
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 3: a bitch and a whore and stuff like that, and

347
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 3: he was gonna beat her and just you know, really

348
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 3: violent stuff.

349
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 4: He was out of his mind at that moment.

350
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 3: He was mad because Jessica said that she wanted to

351
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 3: have sex with me, and I was like, okay, that

352
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 3: makes sense why you're mad.

353
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 4: Then I go to the car and I'm like, okay,

354
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 4: so what's going on?

355
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 3: And Jessica just seems scared, you know, she just seems

356
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,880
Speaker 3: like she's scared. She doesn't want to talk to him,

357
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 3: she doesn't want to see him. She's sitting in the

358
00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 3: car crying, just saying that she's just scared, and we

359
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,439
Speaker 3: felt bad for her.

360
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 4: At that point. We go back inside. I tell Justin.

361
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,480
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, Jessica's gonna come back in here, but

362
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,879
Speaker 3: you have to stop yelling and you have to stop

363
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:14,639
Speaker 3: being so violent.

364
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,479
Speaker 4: And he was like okay, right.

365
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 3: Whenever Jessica watched the door, he starts screaming and yelling again,

366
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 3: and We're like, what the heck. This is exactly the

367
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 3: opposite of what you said you were gonna do.

368
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,439
Speaker 4: So things weren't working out.

369
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 3: I tried one last time to tell him that he

370
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 3: needs to calm down, and he freaked out on me.

371
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 3: He said, if you don't shut the fuck up, then

372
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 3: I'm gonna splatter your head against the wall. He threatened

373
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 3: to bash my head into the wall. And at that moment,

374
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 3: I was genuinely scared. He was a way bigger guy

375
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 3: than me, and it just gotten out of control. I

376
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 3: don't know how far he was willing to go or

377
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 3: if he was actually gonna hurt me, so at that moment,

378
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 3: we were like, okay, we're going to grab our bags

379
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:05,919
Speaker 3: and we're going to go.

380
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 1: But before they left, the couple tried to help a hysterical,

381
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: inconsolable Jessica.

382
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 4: Jessica, she follows us to the door and she was

383
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 4: like crying, she was sobbing. She was like, I'm so sorry,

384
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry. And then we were like, okay, listen, Jessica,

385
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 4: we're going to a hotel.

386
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 3: If you want to come with us, you can't just

387
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 3: hop in the car with us, and she was like

388
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 3: I can't, I can't, I can't go, and we were like, listen,

389
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,880
Speaker 3: you need to come in the car with us.

390
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 4: And we're going to go to a hotel for a

391
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 4: couple of days.

392
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 3: It's not a big deal. You just need to get

393
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 3: away from her. And she didn't listen. She was scared

394
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,119
Speaker 3: that he was going to do something more. I'm sure

395
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 3: in that little sliver of time that we spent with them,

396
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 3: we saw how violent he could.

397
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 4: Get and we figured that it wasn't going to end well.

398
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 3: Just because of that experience, it was just the weirdest

399
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 3: weekend we've ever had.

400
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 4: After we left and went back.

401
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 3: Home, they called us like a week later, and it

402
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 3: was really just them apologizing and saying sorry, like over

403
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 3: and over again, and we basically just let them know

404
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 3: that we don't want to speak to them ever again.

405
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 4: We told them to stop calling us, and I think

406
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 4: that was the most blunt we ever were with them.

407
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 3: It was easier not having to be face to face

408
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 3: with them, just to be able to tell them over

409
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 3: the phone.

410
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 4: But they listened. They didn't call us ever again.

411
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 1: This all happened just a few months before Jessica vanished.

412
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: The unsettling experience has stuck with Kin and Barbie. They've

413
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: thought about it ever since they left That day. But

414
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: when they caught wind that Jessica was found dead, that's

415
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 1: when they really started having thoughts.

416
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 3: We think that Jessica had a good heart, and we

417
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 3: think she was a good person and she was a

418
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:12,479
Speaker 3: pleasure to be around.

419
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 4: Justin, on the other hand, was not well.

420
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 3: I think what happened was Jessica might have came to

421
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 3: her senses and was like, Okay, I got to get

422
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 3: away from this guy.

423
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: No matter the theories about what happened to Jessica, the

424
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: fact remained she was gone. What was left were her remains,

425
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 1: which had been released to Justin as her next of kin,

426
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: though he hadn't claimed them. Instead, he took to the

427
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: Internet to try and raise money for a funeral, one

428
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: that Jessica's family had already offered to take care of.

429
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: He created two separate GoFundMe accounts, one under her legal

430
00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: name Jessica, the other under her kimming name Vivian, and

431
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: offering various items in return for donations, shoes, lingerie, even photos.

432
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 6: He was sitting there selling her image. And then we

433
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,239
Speaker 6: tried to get all that stuff shut down, and the

434
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 6: cop said that they would look into it, but they

435
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 6: never did. They never did anything. It was us that

436
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 6: got that all shut down, and there must have been

437
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 6: like seven or eight porn sites. I ended up getting

438
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 6: on Twitter in January and I put my story out

439
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 6: there about Jessica, and I had at least thirty in

440
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 6: box messages saying to me, what do you mean she

441
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 6: died in August. He's been telling us in November, like

442
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:50,239
Speaker 6: no August. Everyone he was following. I went on his

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00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 6: thing and I just started following all them people, and

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00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,239
Speaker 6: I started tagging him so that they would see my

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00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 6: sister's story. It was just a mess. It was just

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00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 6: it was chaotic. He was sitting there. It's like he

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00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 6: didn't even have a care, Like he didn't even care

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Speaker 6: about Jessica.

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Speaker 1: The camming community was incensed, and they rallied, finding ways

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00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: to shut down as many of his online accounts as possible,

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00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: which seemed to stop him in his tracks. And while

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Speaker 1: Jessica sat alone inside the coroner's office, unclaimed, her family

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00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: couldn't get the one thing they wanted the most, Jessica.

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00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: To make matters worse, they were also lacking answers about

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Speaker 1: what happened to her. A quick visit from TODDNY to

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00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: the New Orleans Police Department wouldn't lend any assurance as

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Speaker 1: to where their investigation was headed.

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Speaker 7: It's considered unclass Fried, so an on class Fried that

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00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 7: leaves us in limbo because we're not allowed to make

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00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 7: any more regard in a case because we don't have

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00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 7: a determinate cause of dead, So no one here would

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00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 7: be like trying to go out and find more information

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00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 7: to fill in holes in what happened because it's the

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Speaker 7: forensic stakes.

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Speaker 1: Undetermined is a production of Resonate Recordings and Tenderfoot TV

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00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: in conjunction with Caden's Thirteen, Written and hosted by me

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00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: Jessica Nolan and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd Mcomas,

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00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: with additional production by Whitney Bozart. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper,

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00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: Mark Minnery, Jacob Bozart, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our

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00:27:54,880 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing, mastering and sound

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00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: design by Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole and Pat Kicklider of

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00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 1: the Resonate Recordings team. If you have a podcast or

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00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: are looking to start one, check us out at Resonate

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00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: Recordings dot com. Our theme song and original score is

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00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 1: by Dirt Poor Robbins, with additional scoring by Dayton Cole.

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00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: Our cover art is by Station sixteen. You can follow

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00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: Undetermined Podcast on Facebook and on Twitter at Undetermined Pod.

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00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: Show notes as well as bonus content can be found

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00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: on our website undetermined pod dot com. If you enjoyed

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00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: this episode, please take time to subscribe, rate, and review.

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00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: Your feedback is greatly appreciated. And finally, if you have

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00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: any information about this case, call crime Stoppers at one

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00:28:53,680 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: eight seven seven nine zero three seven eight sixty seven

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Speaker 1: y