1 00:00:00,180 --> 00:00:03,350 Speaker 1: This episode contains content that may be disturbing to some listeners. 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,150 Speaker 1: Please check the show notes for more information. This is 3 00:00:07,170 --> 00:00:25,790 Speaker 1: a story about charlatans in the Christian metal community. It's 4 00:00:25,810 --> 00:00:28,710 Speaker 1: about the frontman of a prominent Christian metal band who 5 00:00:28,790 --> 00:00:32,430 Speaker 1: tried to hire a hitman to murder his wife. A 6 00:00:32,490 --> 00:00:37,020 Speaker 1: man who squandered a second chance and whose continued violent 7 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: and shocking transgressions were caught on camera. And this is 8 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,410 Speaker 1: a story that's also about forgiveness. It's about redemption. It's 9 00:00:46,450 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: about losing your faith. And about whether or not an 10 00:00:49,780 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: entire music genre built upon faith is, in fact, now 11 00:00:53,820 --> 00:00:59,540 Speaker 1: populated by phonies. Because this is a story about Tim Lambesis, 12 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,959 Speaker 1: a notorious frontman from a Christian metal band called As 13 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,890 Speaker 1: I Lay Dying. A band that I don't believe made 14 00:01:07,930 --> 00:01:09,410 Speaker 1: great music, but you might, and I'm not going to 15 00:01:09,450 --> 00:01:12,310 Speaker 1: judge you for it. Either way, it's not anything like 16 00:01:12,370 --> 00:01:13,910 Speaker 1: the music that I played for you at the top 17 00:01:13,950 --> 00:01:15,950 Speaker 1: of the show. That wasn't great music. That was a 18 00:01:16,030 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: preset loop from my Mellotron. called Jacked and Juiced MK1. 19 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: I played you that loop because I can't afford the 20 00:01:24,190 --> 00:01:27,250 Speaker 1: rights to Just Give Me a Reason by Pink featuring 21 00:01:27,310 --> 00:01:30,670 Speaker 1: Nate Reese. And why would I play you that specific 22 00:01:30,770 --> 00:01:34,330 Speaker 1: slice of strangely spelled Reese cheese? Could I afford it? 23 00:01:36,050 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: Because that was the number one song in America on 24 00:01:39,340 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: May 7th, 2013. And that was the day that As 25 00:01:43,340 --> 00:01:47,180 Speaker 1: I Lay Dying frontman Tim Lambesis walked into a Burns & 26 00:01:47,180 --> 00:01:51,390 Speaker 1: Noble thinking he was hiring a hitman to murder his wife, 27 00:01:52,150 --> 00:01:55,350 Speaker 1: when in fact, he was walking into a San Diego 28 00:01:55,410 --> 00:02:01,790 Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department sting operation. On this episode, fake hitmen and 29 00:02:01,870 --> 00:02:08,100 Speaker 1: phony Christians, second chances, lost faith, charlatans, and as I 30 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: lay dying. I'm Jake Brennan, and this is Disgraceland. In 2014, 31 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: Tim Lambesis, frontman for the Christian metalcore band As I 32 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: Lay Dying, gave an interview to Alternative Press Magazine in 33 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,100 Speaker 1: which he positioned himself as an unlikely whistleblower. Now, in 34 00:02:38,139 --> 00:02:41,460 Speaker 1: this interview, Lambesis made the claim that the Christian metal circuit, 35 00:02:41,820 --> 00:02:45,430 Speaker 1: the collection of bands whose Christian faith is a driving 36 00:02:45,530 --> 00:02:49,350 Speaker 1: force in their music and their identity, the scene that 37 00:02:49,610 --> 00:02:52,250 Speaker 1: As I Lay Dying had been part of for years 38 00:02:53,270 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: was nothing more than a fraud. In 12 years of 39 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,990 Speaker 1: touring with As I Lay Dying, Lambesis said, I would 40 00:03:00,030 --> 00:03:02,990 Speaker 1: say maybe 1 in 10 Christian bands we toured with 41 00:03:03,030 --> 00:03:08,790 Speaker 1: were actually Christian bands. Lambesis even outed himself in this interview, 42 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: saying that he'd stepped away from Christianity years ago and 43 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:17,220 Speaker 1: now identified as an atheist. So imagine that, an atheist 44 00:03:17,340 --> 00:03:20,930 Speaker 1: fronting one of the biggest Christian metalcore bands in the world. 45 00:03:22,110 --> 00:03:25,450 Speaker 1: Was Tim Lambesis telling the truth? Is the Christian metal 46 00:03:25,490 --> 00:03:30,100 Speaker 1: scene full of phony Christians? I should mention that Tim 47 00:03:30,139 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: Lambesis gave this interview as he was about to be 48 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: sentenced for the very unchristian crime of attempting to hire 49 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,310 Speaker 1: an undercover cop to murder his estranged wife, Megan Lambesis. 50 00:03:42,350 --> 00:03:44,650 Speaker 1: You heard that right. Tim Lambesis thought he was hiring 51 00:03:44,670 --> 00:03:47,990 Speaker 1: a hitman to off his own wife, but instead found 52 00:03:48,010 --> 00:03:51,450 Speaker 1: himself caught up in a San Diego Sheriff's Department sting. 53 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: solicitation of another to commit murder was the actual charge. 54 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,060 Speaker 1: But more on that in a minute. Back to this 55 00:03:59,100 --> 00:04:03,970 Speaker 1: interview with Alternative Press from 2014. In the interview, Tim 56 00:04:04,010 --> 00:04:07,510 Speaker 1: Lambesis alleges that he wasn't even the first member of 57 00:04:07,530 --> 00:04:10,050 Speaker 1: As I Lay Dying to lose his faith, that perhaps 58 00:04:10,450 --> 00:04:13,670 Speaker 1: at least two others had done so before him. He 59 00:04:13,710 --> 00:04:16,289 Speaker 1: says the band held meetings to discuss whether they should 60 00:04:16,310 --> 00:04:20,810 Speaker 1: continue the ruse to continue taking money from the Christian market, 61 00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: as he puts it. And Lambesis also describes some awkward 62 00:04:25,460 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: moments with fans, Christian fans who would ask to pray 63 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: with him. Lambesis says he wouldn't actually pray along with him, 64 00:04:33,020 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: but that he'd let them think he was praying. He'd 65 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,620 Speaker 1: say amen when they finished and all that. But in 66 00:04:37,660 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: the end, he was nothing more than a non-believer with 67 00:04:39,820 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: a shoulder to lean on and a dollar to make. 68 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: So again, I ask you, was Tim Lambesis, a man 69 00:04:45,980 --> 00:04:48,420 Speaker 1: facing up to nine years in prison, telling the truth? 70 00:04:48,940 --> 00:04:53,460 Speaker 1: and is the Christian metal scene, which includes Lambesis' band, 71 00:04:53,700 --> 00:04:59,790 Speaker 1: As I Lay Dying, full of phony Christians. As I 72 00:04:59,820 --> 00:05:02,470 Speaker 1: Lay Dying stands as one of the most successful acts 73 00:05:02,550 --> 00:05:06,890 Speaker 1: in metalcore, an intense musical subgenre which fuses heavy metal 74 00:05:07,010 --> 00:05:09,890 Speaker 1: and hardcore punk rock. And though they are named for 75 00:05:09,910 --> 00:05:12,650 Speaker 1: the 1930 Southern Gothic novel of the same name by 76 00:05:12,710 --> 00:05:16,150 Speaker 1: William Faulkner, As I Lay Dying has nothing in common 77 00:05:16,210 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: with any work of classic literature. The San Diego-based group 78 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,789 Speaker 1: went through some lineup changes early on, but by the 79 00:05:22,850 --> 00:05:26,589 Speaker 1: end of 2006, the year that Revolver magazine hailed Christian 80 00:05:26,650 --> 00:05:30,310 Speaker 1: Metal as the phenomenon of the year, As I Lay 81 00:05:30,370 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: Dying's lineup included Lambesis, drummer Jordan Mancino, bassist Josh Gilbert, 82 00:05:36,390 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: and guitarists Nick Hippa and Phil Scoroso. In 2007, the 83 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,780 Speaker 1: group's fourth studio album, An Ocean Between Us, released on 84 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: Metal Blade Records, peaked at number eight on the Billboard 85 00:05:47,779 --> 00:05:52,250 Speaker 1: album chart. That album's first single, Nothing Left, with its rapid-fire, 86 00:05:52,310 --> 00:05:57,620 Speaker 1: heart-pounding drums and squealing guitars, along with Lambesis' trademark guttural scream, 87 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: was even nominated for a Grammy Award in the Best 88 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,730 Speaker 1: Metal Performance category. The 2000s were a huge decade for 89 00:06:05,850 --> 00:06:08,210 Speaker 1: As I Lay Dying in particular and for the Christian 90 00:06:08,250 --> 00:06:11,990 Speaker 1: metal scene in general. Christian metal bands like P.O.D. and 91 00:06:12,089 --> 00:06:16,330 Speaker 1: Under Oath were crossing over into the mainstream, playing Ozfest 92 00:06:16,390 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: and The Warped Tour. Heaven's Metal, a fanzine for Christian 93 00:06:20,060 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 1: rock and culture, which had since changed its name to 94 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:28,790 Speaker 1: simply HM, reverted back to its original, unambiguous name. It 95 00:06:28,830 --> 00:06:32,130 Speaker 1: was a validating moment for Christian Metal, and a hard-fought one, too, 96 00:06:32,170 --> 00:06:36,789 Speaker 1: because only years earlier, many fans had seen Christian Metal 97 00:06:37,210 --> 00:06:41,349 Speaker 1: as nothing but a joke. If you think about it, 98 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: the entire concept of Christian Metal itself seeks to reclaim 99 00:06:45,940 --> 00:06:49,070 Speaker 1: a style of music that was deemed satanic by many 100 00:06:49,089 --> 00:06:52,849 Speaker 1: in the church. In the 1980s, televangelists searched in vain 101 00:06:52,910 --> 00:06:56,349 Speaker 1: for evil backwards messages in the music of OG metal 102 00:06:56,370 --> 00:06:59,630 Speaker 1: bands like Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin. But also in 103 00:06:59,650 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: the 80s, one of the earliest mainstream Christian metal bands, Striper, 104 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: met with dirty looks from conventional metalheads rocking out to 105 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: Motley Crue, Rat, and Dokken. Not me, though. I was 106 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:12,940 Speaker 1: into Striper. And, you know, they're goofy. They had their 107 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,260 Speaker 1: matching outfits and their They're, I don't know, I want 108 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: to say uncool songs, but I liked To Hell with 109 00:07:19,060 --> 00:07:21,700 Speaker 1: the Devil, okay? I just did. I think I liked 110 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,460 Speaker 1: that whole yellow and black thing Striper had going on. Anyways, 111 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,410 Speaker 1: by the end of the 20th century, the goofiness that 112 00:07:29,450 --> 00:07:32,350 Speaker 1: Striper seemed to embody had been driven out of the 113 00:07:32,390 --> 00:07:38,420 Speaker 1: Christian metal scene and replaced by darker, heavier vibes. Simultaneously, 114 00:07:38,930 --> 00:07:42,850 Speaker 1: Major mainstream rock bands who didn't outwardly market themselves as 115 00:07:42,950 --> 00:07:47,790 Speaker 1: Christian bands, bands like U2, were couching Christian imagery in 116 00:07:47,830 --> 00:07:51,910 Speaker 1: the themes of their music. So by the 2000s, this 117 00:07:51,950 --> 00:07:54,540 Speaker 1: whole thing, this whole Christian thing, this whole Christian scene 118 00:07:54,650 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: blew open. The scene got larger and the scene had 119 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:02,220 Speaker 1: hardcore fans. Fans who were fans because bands like As 120 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: I Lay Dying were Christian. That was the whole hook, 121 00:08:06,340 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: being Christian. But Tim Lambesis was living a lie. He 122 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: had long since lost his faith. He was not the 123 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,590 Speaker 1: Christian he once was, and if he is to be believed, 124 00:08:17,930 --> 00:08:21,010 Speaker 1: neither were the other guys in his band. Still, as 125 00:08:21,090 --> 00:08:24,510 Speaker 1: I lay dying, carried on, crossing over, touring, not only 126 00:08:24,530 --> 00:08:27,500 Speaker 1: with other Christian metal luminaries like Demon Hunter, but also 127 00:08:27,510 --> 00:08:31,140 Speaker 1: with the likes of Motorhead, Anthrax, Slipknot, and Slayer. Make 128 00:08:31,180 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: that make sense. All the while, Lambesis kept his secret 129 00:08:34,620 --> 00:08:37,010 Speaker 1: close to his vest, so as not to lose the 130 00:08:37,090 --> 00:08:40,910 Speaker 1: good faith of the loyal Christian metal community. But faith 131 00:08:41,410 --> 00:08:47,359 Speaker 1: was in all Tim Lambesis had lost. By 2013, he 132 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,380 Speaker 1: was separated from his wife, Megan. According to Lambesis, he 133 00:08:51,420 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: was not allowed to see the three young children he'd 134 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: adopted with Megan as often as he would like. And 135 00:08:56,780 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: then there was a looming divorce. Once that was finalized, 136 00:09:00,460 --> 00:09:03,740 Speaker 1: Lambesis would likely see even less of the kids while 137 00:09:03,780 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: being made to fork over up to 60% of his 138 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,410 Speaker 1: income to his ex. If Tim Lambesis had still been 139 00:09:10,429 --> 00:09:12,970 Speaker 1: a believer, then this is when he would have fallen 140 00:09:13,010 --> 00:09:16,490 Speaker 1: to his knees, clasped his hands together, and asked God 141 00:09:16,550 --> 00:09:19,410 Speaker 1: why he'd been forsaken. He may have even appealed to 142 00:09:19,450 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: God for guidance for a way out of this mess. 143 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,500 Speaker 1: But Tim Lambesis had no faith. He had no wife. 144 00:09:25,540 --> 00:09:28,219 Speaker 1: He had no family. And a man who has lost 145 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,890 Speaker 1: all that will do just about anything to avoid his 146 00:09:32,070 --> 00:09:38,230 Speaker 1: unwanted fate. Tim Lambesis walked confidently into the Barnes & 147 00:09:38,230 --> 00:09:42,569 Speaker 1: Noble in Oceanside, California. Within seconds, he found the man 148 00:09:42,630 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: he knew only as Red, even though he'd never laid 149 00:09:45,420 --> 00:09:48,740 Speaker 1: eyes on the guy. But Red looked exactly like what 150 00:09:48,780 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: Lambesis had been told to expect. Long beard, pierced ears, 151 00:09:53,420 --> 00:09:58,310 Speaker 1: older and grizzled. Some real dyed-in-the-wool Southern California biker vibes. 152 00:09:59,510 --> 00:10:02,900 Speaker 1: Red was a fixer. Red was a problem solver. Red 153 00:10:02,940 --> 00:10:05,100 Speaker 1: was the guy who did the dirty work and got 154 00:10:05,140 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: paid handsomely for the pleasure. And to that end, Tim 155 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,460 Speaker 1: Lambesis had $ 1, 000 in cash waiting in his Jeep out 156 00:10:12,500 --> 00:10:14,820 Speaker 1: in the parking lot as a down payment for what 157 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: he was hiring Red to do. Kill his estranged wife, Megan. 158 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: He got Red's contact info from someone at the gym. 159 00:10:24,070 --> 00:10:27,350 Speaker 1: Lambesis had been asking around. He needed a trigger man. 160 00:10:27,970 --> 00:10:30,410 Speaker 1: Someone who could go to her house, in and out 161 00:10:30,450 --> 00:10:32,829 Speaker 1: like a stiff breeze off the coast and make it 162 00:10:32,870 --> 00:10:36,630 Speaker 1: look like a robbery gone wrong. Finding someone was easier 163 00:10:36,670 --> 00:10:40,340 Speaker 1: than he thought and cheaper too. 20 grand all in. 164 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: Red was a man of few words. He asked Lambesis 165 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,750 Speaker 1: if he had the $ 1, 000 down payment. Lambesis nodded yes. 166 00:10:49,429 --> 00:10:52,740 Speaker 1: He also had some photos, a description of Megan's vehicle, 167 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,020 Speaker 1: her address, and the passcode to get inside her house. 168 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: Lambesis was careful how he spoke. It was always a 169 00:11:00,970 --> 00:11:04,110 Speaker 1: one or gone. He didn't use words like murder or 170 00:11:04,250 --> 00:11:09,970 Speaker 1: kill because people listened and people talked. But outside, after 171 00:11:10,030 --> 00:11:12,750 Speaker 1: he'd retrieved a file folder from his black Jeep that 172 00:11:12,790 --> 00:11:16,050 Speaker 1: contained the money, the address, the code, all that, and 173 00:11:16,150 --> 00:11:20,050 Speaker 1: after he'd passed the folder off to Red, Lambesis couldn't 174 00:11:20,100 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: help himself. He was casually walking away when he stopped, 175 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,979 Speaker 1: turned around, made sure no one else was nearby, and 176 00:11:27,020 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: then looked Red in the eye and said, Just to clarify, 177 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:35,380 Speaker 1: just so you know, I want her dead. It was 178 00:11:35,410 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: May 7th, 2013, and that was the day that Tim 179 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,500 Speaker 1: Lambesis discovered that the man he knew as Red was 180 00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: actually an undercover San Diego County Sheriff's deputy, who was 181 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,540 Speaker 1: now placing the front man of the Christian metal band 182 00:11:49,780 --> 00:11:53,500 Speaker 1: As I Lay Dying under arrest for solicitation of another 183 00:11:53,980 --> 00:12:22,260 Speaker 1: to commit murder. For attempting to hire an undercover cop 184 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,500 Speaker 1: to murder his wife in 2014, Tim Lambesis was sentenced 185 00:12:26,540 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: to six years in a California prison. At his trial, 186 00:12:30,740 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: Claudia Grasso, a deputy San Diego district attorney, revealed that 187 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,829 Speaker 1: Lambesis had sent emails to his wife, Megan, in which 188 00:12:37,870 --> 00:12:40,250 Speaker 1: he wrote that he no longer believed in God and 189 00:12:40,309 --> 00:12:43,750 Speaker 1: wanted to end their marriage. And in divorce papers, Megan 190 00:12:43,790 --> 00:12:47,110 Speaker 1: described a man who had become an irresponsible father, an 191 00:12:47,230 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: unfaithful husband, and a gym rat. who was more concerned 192 00:12:51,020 --> 00:12:55,210 Speaker 1: with bodybuilding than he was with his own family. Later, 193 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:00,290 Speaker 1: former 80s metal veteran and Dokken guitarist George Lynch, whose 194 00:13:00,330 --> 00:13:02,910 Speaker 1: daughter was engaged for a time to As I Lay 195 00:13:02,950 --> 00:13:06,170 Speaker 1: Dying guitarist Nick Hippa, would go so far as to 196 00:13:06,230 --> 00:13:12,150 Speaker 1: allege that Lambesis had gotten himself mixed up with, quote, cocaine, strippers, heroin, 197 00:13:12,370 --> 00:13:18,429 Speaker 1: and steroids, unquote. Lambesis' defense attorney did admit that steroid 198 00:13:18,610 --> 00:13:22,330 Speaker 1: use had clouded his client's judgment. But the same attorney 199 00:13:22,370 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: claimed that Lambesis never actually intended for Megan to be 200 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: harmed and that he had in some way been set 201 00:13:27,820 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: up by a third party who had reason to vilify him. 202 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,780 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty clear based on the evidence that 203 00:13:34,900 --> 00:13:39,500 Speaker 1: Lambesis and Lambesis alone was behind this. I mean, the 204 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,410 Speaker 1: sheriff's deputy posing as Red the hitman got their entire 205 00:13:43,490 --> 00:13:47,500 Speaker 1: interaction on tape. But whether or not steroids had, quote, 206 00:13:47,780 --> 00:13:52,150 Speaker 1: clouded his judgment, unquote, Lambesis found himself at what he 207 00:13:52,230 --> 00:13:56,810 Speaker 1: thought was rock bottom, the lowest of lows. And there 208 00:13:56,830 --> 00:13:58,870 Speaker 1: at the bottom, about to be carted off to prison, 209 00:13:59,410 --> 00:14:02,260 Speaker 1: he had that moment of clarity that one can access 210 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,860 Speaker 1: when they hit rock bottom. A moment in which Tim 211 00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:09,239 Speaker 1: Lambesis decided to reveal what he claimed to be the 212 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: truth about the Christian metal scene. But then his own 213 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 1: band went ahead and did the most Christian thing ever. 214 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,500 Speaker 1: Because when Tim Lambesis was released from prison in December 2016, 215 00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: after serving less than half of his sentence, the rest 216 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,980 Speaker 1: of As I Lay Dying forgave him, and the band 217 00:14:28,580 --> 00:14:34,660 Speaker 1: got back together. The comeback was polarizing, to say the least. 218 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,620 Speaker 1: The reception surrounding As I Lay Dying's 2019 album Shaped 219 00:14:38,660 --> 00:14:43,900 Speaker 1: by a Fire was Their first, since reuniting with their frontman, 220 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: Tim Lambesis, was anything but lukewarm. It was hot and 221 00:14:49,540 --> 00:14:53,060 Speaker 1: it was cold. It was either or. Either you were 222 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,130 Speaker 1: psyched that this band was back, or you were pissed 223 00:14:56,170 --> 00:14:59,690 Speaker 1: that Lambesis wasn't still rotting in a cell. Either you 224 00:14:59,750 --> 00:15:01,710 Speaker 1: turned the other cheek, like the rest of the guys 225 00:15:01,750 --> 00:15:04,810 Speaker 1: in the band somehow managed to do, or you did 226 00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:08,270 Speaker 1: not forgive and you did not forget. And what about 227 00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:11,180 Speaker 1: the rest of the Christian metal community? What about the 228 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: scene that had nurtured As I Lay Dying from the start? 229 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: The same scene that Tim Lambesis had since called out 230 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:23,070 Speaker 1: as phony. Disillusionment and disappointment went hand in hand. Many 231 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,370 Speaker 1: media outlets refused to cover the album, but those that did, 232 00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:30,790 Speaker 1: did so with goodwill. The online music magazine Loudwire named 233 00:15:30,890 --> 00:15:35,230 Speaker 1: Shaped by Fire one of the year's 50 best metal albums. Commercially, 234 00:15:35,270 --> 00:15:37,620 Speaker 1: it did pretty well too, peaking at number 50 on 235 00:15:37,630 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: the Billboard 200. And number three on the Hard Rock 236 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: Albums chart. Should we be surprised by this? Should we 237 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,430 Speaker 1: be surprised that an album by a man who lost 238 00:15:47,490 --> 00:15:49,810 Speaker 1: his faith and tried to have his wife murdered was 239 00:15:49,950 --> 00:15:54,450 Speaker 1: positively received by a large number of critics and fans? No. 240 00:15:55,450 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: Because people compartmentalize. People say, Tim Lambesis did something terrible, 241 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,540 Speaker 1: but he's changed. And look, he got remarried while he 242 00:16:03,580 --> 00:16:06,860 Speaker 1: was incarcerated. Someone loves this guy, so he must be alright. 243 00:16:07,820 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: People also mythologize. They say, Tim Lambesis did something terrible, 244 00:16:12,620 --> 00:16:14,780 Speaker 1: and somehow that makes him even more rock and roll, 245 00:16:14,820 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: and that's metal as fuck. And people love a redemption story. 246 00:16:19,740 --> 00:16:22,540 Speaker 1: As in, Tim Lambesis did something terrible, but he has 247 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,500 Speaker 1: seen the error of his ways, and he has overcome 248 00:16:24,540 --> 00:16:28,380 Speaker 1: his demons, and we love him more because of it. Besides, 249 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,860 Speaker 1: Tim Lambesis was hardly the first rock star to do 250 00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:36,380 Speaker 1: something truly deplorable, only to be forgiven, even rewarded, by 251 00:16:36,420 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: his fans. In 1984, Motley Crue lead singer Vince Neil 252 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:45,180 Speaker 1: drunkenly steered his Ford Pantera into oncoming traffic, crashing head-on 253 00:16:45,210 --> 00:16:48,130 Speaker 1: into two cars, leaving the driver of one of those cars, 254 00:16:48,590 --> 00:16:52,310 Speaker 1: an 18-year-old girl with brain damage, and killing Neil's passenger, 255 00:16:52,610 --> 00:16:57,050 Speaker 1: Hanoi Rocks drummer Nicholas Dazzle Ringley. Three years later, Motley 256 00:16:57,110 --> 00:17:00,430 Speaker 1: Crue released their album Girls, Girls, Girls, which sold over 257 00:17:00,430 --> 00:17:05,270 Speaker 1: 4 million copies. In 1989, Ozzy Osbourne tried to strangle 258 00:17:05,290 --> 00:17:08,479 Speaker 1: his wife and manager, Sharon Osbourne, and was arrested for 259 00:17:08,540 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: attempted murder. Two years later, all was forgiven when he 260 00:17:11,820 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: released his acclaimed album No More Tears, one of the 261 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,179 Speaker 1: biggest records of his career, which included the massive single Mama, 262 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,630 Speaker 1: I'm Coming Home, and went on to go quadruple platinum. 263 00:17:22,910 --> 00:17:25,110 Speaker 1: There was precedent for this sort of thing, just like 264 00:17:25,210 --> 00:17:28,970 Speaker 1: Tim Lambesis set a new precedent when he talked about 265 00:17:28,990 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: the phoniness of the Christian metal scene. Because once that 266 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,619 Speaker 1: was out there, a sense of doubt came creeping out 267 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,959 Speaker 1: of the woodwork. And it was right in the pages 268 00:17:38,010 --> 00:17:42,690 Speaker 1: of Heaven's Metal Magazine, or HM Magazine. In a 2013 269 00:17:42,690 --> 00:17:45,770 Speaker 1: interview with the publication J.B. Brubaker of the Christian metalcore 270 00:17:45,790 --> 00:17:49,189 Speaker 1: band August Burns Red, talked about the baggage that came 271 00:17:49,210 --> 00:17:52,290 Speaker 1: with being labeled a Christian band. And how it put 272 00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:55,210 Speaker 1: you under the microscope. And how it sometimes feels like 273 00:17:55,250 --> 00:17:57,229 Speaker 1: people are just waiting for you to screw up so 274 00:17:57,250 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: they can call you out. In a 2016 interview with 275 00:18:00,540 --> 00:18:03,590 Speaker 1: the same magazine, Steve Cabucci of the band Wolves at 276 00:18:03,630 --> 00:18:06,790 Speaker 1: the Gate talked about the palpable shift happening in the 277 00:18:06,850 --> 00:18:10,090 Speaker 1: scene and how the Christian metal community was quickly becoming 278 00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: perceived as disingenuous. Anti-Christianity, as he put it, was the 279 00:18:14,820 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: new cool. And in a 2017 interview with Heaven's Metal... 280 00:18:19,290 --> 00:18:23,209 Speaker 1: Tyler Riley of the band Gideon confessed that Christian circuits 281 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,980 Speaker 1: and Christian music festivals were too limiting and that it 282 00:18:27,020 --> 00:18:30,100 Speaker 1: felt weird to be admired by a fan base that 283 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:35,340 Speaker 1: admired you for your religious beliefs alone. As of 2019, 284 00:18:35,340 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: Gideon no longer identifies as a Christian band. And at 285 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,500 Speaker 1: the end of the day, Tim Lambesis and As I 286 00:18:41,540 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: Lay Dying just wanted to continue as a band that 287 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,490 Speaker 1: was judged and accepted on their own musical merit. not 288 00:18:48,580 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: because of their allegiance to any particular sub-genre or belief. 289 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,100 Speaker 1: Lambesis in particular stated that he wanted to make amends 290 00:18:56,180 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: where possible, express my remorse, and just put my energy 291 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,990 Speaker 1: into something positive. But the dual controversies of Lambesis' words 292 00:19:05,050 --> 00:19:08,130 Speaker 1: and actions did not wash away as easily as some 293 00:19:08,170 --> 00:19:11,369 Speaker 1: other sins. These things clung to the band like a 294 00:19:11,450 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: noxious odor. As I Lay Dying were finding themselves lepers 295 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,550 Speaker 1: not only in Christian metal circles... but in the mainstream 296 00:19:18,609 --> 00:19:22,530 Speaker 1: as well. Most notably, they were dropped from the wildly 297 00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:26,530 Speaker 1: popular Resurrection Fest, an annual music festival in Spain for 298 00:19:26,590 --> 00:19:30,540 Speaker 1: major metal, hardcore, and punk bands. And that's when members 299 00:19:30,580 --> 00:19:37,460 Speaker 1: of As I Lay Dying began dropping out too. In 2020, 300 00:19:37,460 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: As I Lay Dying guitarist Nick Hippa left the band. 301 00:19:40,980 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: It had been three years, give or take, since frontman 302 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: Tim Lambesis had been released from prison. and one year 303 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: since the release of As I Lay Dying's Come Back Out. Then, 304 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: just two years later in 2022, both bass player Josh 305 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,420 Speaker 1: Gilbert and founding drummer Jordan Mancino also stepped down from 306 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,470 Speaker 1: their roles in the band. And this left only Lambesis 307 00:20:02,550 --> 00:20:07,470 Speaker 1: and guitarist Phil Scroso in the band. It also left 308 00:20:07,630 --> 00:20:11,730 Speaker 1: many unanswered questions. Questions like, what the hell is going 309 00:20:11,790 --> 00:20:14,590 Speaker 1: on here? Why did the majority of As I Lay 310 00:20:14,650 --> 00:20:17,710 Speaker 1: Dying's lineup quit in such a short period of time? 311 00:20:18,290 --> 00:20:21,369 Speaker 1: And what did it have to do with their problematic frontman? 312 00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:26,060 Speaker 1: Lambesis would soon hire replacements and keep As I Lay 313 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,500 Speaker 1: Dying moving forward. Even still, this only created more questions 314 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 1: and more rumors. Rumors that Tim Lambesis' so-called redemption, how 315 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: he supposedly pulled himself up from a humiliating fall from grace... 316 00:20:40,300 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: It was all as phony as the Christian metal scene 317 00:20:43,060 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: that he once described. And the statements given by As 318 00:20:46,900 --> 00:20:50,220 Speaker 1: I Lay Dying's departed members would serve as a premonition 319 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 1: of sorts, a glimpse of the darkness that lay ahead 320 00:20:54,080 --> 00:21:00,369 Speaker 1: in the coming days and months. We'll be right back 321 00:21:00,730 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: after this word, word, word. When guitarist Nick Hippa parted 322 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,100 Speaker 1: ways with As I Lay Dying in 2020, he posted 323 00:21:12,140 --> 00:21:16,020 Speaker 1: a long statement on Instagram, part of which read, Respectfully, 324 00:21:16,060 --> 00:21:18,510 Speaker 1: I left because the story and meaning we built our 325 00:21:18,550 --> 00:21:25,189 Speaker 1: reunion upon decayed considerably over time. In 2022, when drummer 326 00:21:25,230 --> 00:21:28,350 Speaker 1: Jordan Mancino left the band, he also took to Instagram, writing, 327 00:21:28,890 --> 00:21:31,030 Speaker 1: There have been a number of ongoing internal issues with 328 00:21:31,130 --> 00:21:33,179 Speaker 1: As I Lay Dying that need to be worked out. 329 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: Tim Lambesis in the As I Lay Dying camp responded 330 00:21:37,260 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: publicly to Mancino's claims of internal issues by alleging that 331 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,750 Speaker 1: for two years straight, Mancino had excommunicated himself from the 332 00:21:44,790 --> 00:21:46,930 Speaker 1: rest of the group and had been speaking with them 333 00:21:47,050 --> 00:21:51,050 Speaker 1: only through lawyers. Whether or not this is true, what 334 00:21:51,310 --> 00:21:53,810 Speaker 1: is true is that three of the five members of 335 00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:57,620 Speaker 1: As I Lay Dying walked away, leaving Lambesis and Phil 336 00:21:57,630 --> 00:22:00,619 Speaker 1: Scroso behind. And if I'm putting money on who's the 337 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: issue here, I'm putting it on the one guy who 338 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:08,070 Speaker 1: tried to have his wife murdered. Despite all this, Lambesis 339 00:22:08,150 --> 00:22:10,850 Speaker 1: managed to find other musicians who were willing to play 340 00:22:10,950 --> 00:22:14,150 Speaker 1: in this controversial group. Ryan Neff from the band Miss 341 00:22:14,210 --> 00:22:17,290 Speaker 1: May joined on bass, and guitarist Ken Soucy and drummer 342 00:22:17,310 --> 00:22:20,189 Speaker 1: Nick Pierce, both formerly of the band Unearthed, signed on 343 00:22:20,330 --> 00:22:23,990 Speaker 1: as well. Soon, as I lay dying, we're prepping a 344 00:22:24,030 --> 00:22:27,350 Speaker 1: new album and plotting a tour of Europe. But apostasy, 345 00:22:27,590 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: loss of faith, continued to be a theme that resonated 346 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,699 Speaker 1: within the ranks of As I Lay Dying. And I'm 347 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,580 Speaker 1: not talking about Tim Lambesis' personal loss of faith. I'm 348 00:22:37,619 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: talking about the ongoing loss of faith that other members 349 00:22:40,530 --> 00:22:46,169 Speaker 1: of As I Lay Dying had with Tim Lambesis. It 350 00:22:46,210 --> 00:22:49,890 Speaker 1: was supposed to be another reset. Another shot at redemption's 351 00:22:50,010 --> 00:22:54,619 Speaker 1: shiny brass ring. It was the fall of 2024. and 352 00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: As I Lay Dying had a largely new lineup. They 353 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,290 Speaker 1: had a new album, Through Storms Ahead, scheduled for release, 354 00:23:01,390 --> 00:23:04,869 Speaker 1: and they had a new tour on the horizon. But 355 00:23:04,930 --> 00:23:07,850 Speaker 1: only weeks before the new album was even out, in October, 356 00:23:08,270 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: newcomer Ryan Neff quit. And then, just six days after that, 357 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: Ken Soucy and Nick Pierce also quit. And by the 358 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,139 Speaker 1: end of the month, Phil Scorso, who had stayed in 359 00:23:18,180 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: the band through thick and thin with Lambisa all these years, 360 00:23:20,900 --> 00:23:24,649 Speaker 1: finally threw in the towel as well. So what happened? 361 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,379 Speaker 1: Nick Pierce said he felt compelled to distance himself from 362 00:23:28,420 --> 00:23:31,260 Speaker 1: the band, quote, in an effort to retain my personal 363 00:23:31,340 --> 00:23:36,020 Speaker 1: health and integrity, unquote. Ken Soucy said that his, quote, 364 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: morals had reached a, quote, breaking point. Personal health, integrity, morals, 365 00:23:42,300 --> 00:23:45,270 Speaker 1: a breaking point. This version of the band had barely 366 00:23:45,310 --> 00:23:49,220 Speaker 1: been together two years and they were imploding in dramatic fashion. Why? Why? 367 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,450 Speaker 1: Rumors surfacing online speculated that allegations of domestic abuse against 368 00:23:54,510 --> 00:23:57,470 Speaker 1: Tim Lambesis would soon break, and that this is likely 369 00:23:57,510 --> 00:23:59,750 Speaker 1: the straw that broke the camel's back when it came 370 00:23:59,810 --> 00:24:04,340 Speaker 1: to the loyalty of Lambesis' new band members. These rumors 371 00:24:04,380 --> 00:24:08,380 Speaker 1: were so loud that Lambesis' third and current wife, Dani Ciara, 372 00:24:08,780 --> 00:24:12,300 Speaker 1: felt compelled to speak publicly on her Instagram. In a 373 00:24:12,340 --> 00:24:16,010 Speaker 1: post from October 24th, 2024, Dani wrote, I want to 374 00:24:16,030 --> 00:24:19,330 Speaker 1: make it unequivocally clear that these allegations are completely false. 375 00:24:20,570 --> 00:24:23,869 Speaker 1: Danny Ciara's denial of domestic violence was taken at face 376 00:24:23,930 --> 00:24:28,669 Speaker 1: value for about a month until late November, 2024 around 377 00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:35,429 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving when the videos began to leak online. Security camera 378 00:24:35,470 --> 00:24:38,470 Speaker 1: footage from inside the home of Tim Lambesis and Danny 379 00:24:38,510 --> 00:24:42,700 Speaker 1: Ciara anonymously surfaced online near the end of 2024. And 380 00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: what can be seen in these clips is pretty disturbing. 381 00:24:47,580 --> 00:24:50,500 Speaker 1: In one video, which appears to take place on an 382 00:24:50,580 --> 00:24:54,740 Speaker 1: outdoor patio, Lambesis suddenly flips over the table that Danny 383 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: is sitting at. And as she walks away, Lambesis follows, 384 00:24:58,380 --> 00:25:00,699 Speaker 1: grabs her, turns her around to face him, trapping her 385 00:25:00,740 --> 00:25:03,060 Speaker 1: in the corner of the patio. And this is the 386 00:25:03,100 --> 00:25:07,939 Speaker 1: crazy part. This huge muscle-bound man starts to repeatedly punch 387 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,959 Speaker 1: himself in the head with both fists yelling, please love me, 388 00:25:13,100 --> 00:25:17,350 Speaker 1: please love me over and over. In another video, The 389 00:25:17,390 --> 00:25:20,870 Speaker 1: couple appears to be in their bedroom. There's no sound 390 00:25:20,930 --> 00:25:23,970 Speaker 1: in this one, but a shirtless lambesis lunges at Danny, 391 00:25:24,010 --> 00:25:26,449 Speaker 1: who is sitting up in bed, and he appears to 392 00:25:26,530 --> 00:25:29,750 Speaker 1: violently pin her just outside the camera frame. And when 393 00:25:29,770 --> 00:25:32,790 Speaker 1: he lets her go, he jumps up, his body vibrating, 394 00:25:32,830 --> 00:25:35,010 Speaker 1: yelling at her before sitting back down on the bed, 395 00:25:35,450 --> 00:25:38,450 Speaker 1: grabbing her face with his hands, and then, yes, once again, 396 00:25:38,869 --> 00:25:42,830 Speaker 1: pummeling himself in the head with his fists. As the 397 00:25:42,869 --> 00:25:46,610 Speaker 1: metalcore community reacted online to what they were seeing, Tim 398 00:25:46,650 --> 00:25:51,420 Speaker 1: Lambesis defended himself by releasing his own statement. In this missive, 399 00:25:51,820 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: Lambesis claimed that he was the victim and that the 400 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,940 Speaker 1: leaked videos were attempts at retaliation over his initiating a divorce. 401 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,390 Speaker 1: He further stated that a domestic violence investigation was being 402 00:26:04,450 --> 00:26:08,810 Speaker 1: launched not against him, but against his wife, Dani, and 403 00:26:08,830 --> 00:26:11,850 Speaker 1: that she had verbally and mentally abused him for years 404 00:26:12,250 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: and that he even had video evidence of Dani assaulting him. 405 00:26:17,300 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: Of course, none of this supposed evidence ever saw the 406 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,950 Speaker 1: light of day, because there was no evidence to the contrary. 407 00:26:24,650 --> 00:26:27,030 Speaker 1: But there was plenty more evidence to come in the 408 00:26:27,109 --> 00:26:33,540 Speaker 1: case against Tim Lambesis. In early 2025, another clip of 409 00:26:33,580 --> 00:26:37,180 Speaker 1: home security camera footage leaked, this time appearing to show 410 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:42,060 Speaker 1: Tim Lambesis abusing his wife's dog. As tens of thousands 411 00:26:42,100 --> 00:26:44,899 Speaker 1: of signatures were being collected for an online petition to 412 00:26:44,940 --> 00:26:49,900 Speaker 1: investigate Lambesis for animal abuse, his former bandmate Ken Soucy 413 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,889 Speaker 1: appeared on a podcast called Brutally Speaking to talk about 414 00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:57,650 Speaker 1: another video. This particular video had been captured a while 415 00:26:57,730 --> 00:27:00,690 Speaker 1: back on a security camera at Ken Soucy's house, but 416 00:27:01,050 --> 00:27:04,740 Speaker 1: had been kept a secret until now. According to Soucy, 417 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,020 Speaker 1: this video is the reason why he and the rest 418 00:27:07,060 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: of As I Lay Dying quit the band. Because, as 419 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,170 Speaker 1: Ken Soucy would allege, this video showed Tim Lambesis inside 420 00:27:14,270 --> 00:27:18,610 Speaker 1: Soucy's house abusing his wife, Danny Sierra, by cornering her 421 00:27:18,810 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: and spitting in her face. Danny denied leaking any of 422 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: the videos online. In fact, she asked whoever was doing 423 00:27:29,220 --> 00:27:32,379 Speaker 1: so to stop. But she did use this opportunity to 424 00:27:32,420 --> 00:27:34,940 Speaker 1: finally walk back the previous statement she'd made in which 425 00:27:34,980 --> 00:27:37,180 Speaker 1: she had said, I want to make it unequivocally clear 426 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 1: that these allegations are completely false. Now it was time 427 00:27:41,780 --> 00:27:46,630 Speaker 1: for the truth. Once again, posting on Instagram, Dani alleged 428 00:27:46,690 --> 00:27:49,350 Speaker 1: that she had been coerced by Tim Lambesis and his 429 00:27:49,450 --> 00:27:54,270 Speaker 1: management into denying any allegations of abuse. The reason given 430 00:27:54,310 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: was to protect his career and public image. She said 431 00:27:57,780 --> 00:28:00,949 Speaker 1: she even had proof of this coercion. She also accused 432 00:28:01,010 --> 00:28:05,250 Speaker 1: Lambesis of intimidation and bribery and said, incredibly, that he 433 00:28:05,290 --> 00:28:08,030 Speaker 1: wanted her to sign an NDA as part of their 434 00:28:08,050 --> 00:28:11,989 Speaker 1: divorce so that she couldn't talk shit about him afterward. Which, clearly, 435 00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: she did not sign because, just like Ken Soucy, Danny 436 00:28:15,820 --> 00:28:20,060 Speaker 1: Sierra was talking. And the world was now seeing Tim 437 00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: Lambesis for what he really was, which is to say, 438 00:28:23,619 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: the thing he'd been all along. He could see it 439 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: so clearly now. It was as though the heavens parted 440 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,260 Speaker 1: and the sun came shining through like rushing water overwhelms 441 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: a break in the dam. Standing before him, a reflection 442 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,540 Speaker 1: of himself, looking back with empathy, looking at his double, 443 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,260 Speaker 1: looking at a man who had done a horrible thing. 444 00:28:47,070 --> 00:28:49,790 Speaker 1: This reflection had the same topography of muscles and the 445 00:28:49,850 --> 00:28:53,310 Speaker 1: same jungle of tattoos, the same fire in his eyes. 446 00:28:54,250 --> 00:28:58,670 Speaker 1: Except this version was something he was not. This reflection 447 00:28:58,810 --> 00:29:03,190 Speaker 1: was one of a rehabilitated man, a man who'd made amends, 448 00:29:03,630 --> 00:29:09,930 Speaker 1: found peace, and been redeemed. Unlike this reflection, redemption for 449 00:29:10,010 --> 00:29:13,830 Speaker 1: him remained an oasis in the desert. So why was 450 00:29:13,870 --> 00:29:17,710 Speaker 1: he being shown this vision? To mock him, or to 451 00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:21,209 Speaker 1: give him strength to carry on? There were people who 452 00:29:21,250 --> 00:29:23,630 Speaker 1: would never forgive him, and there was nothing he could 453 00:29:23,670 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: do about that. But unless he wanted to lose everything, 454 00:29:27,660 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: He knew he had to do something, no matter how drastic. 455 00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:36,310 Speaker 1: So he stole the reflection. He assumed its form and 456 00:29:36,370 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: told everyone it was actually him. That this was a chance. man. 457 00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:43,420 Speaker 1: That even though he no longer subscribed to their faith, 458 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: they could have faith in him. But the ruse was weak, 459 00:29:47,980 --> 00:29:50,390 Speaker 1: and the reflection was something that only he could see. 460 00:29:51,330 --> 00:29:55,150 Speaker 1: No one could see his redemption or his rehabilitation. All 461 00:29:55,210 --> 00:29:59,210 Speaker 1: anyone could see was what was beneath that false exterior. 462 00:29:59,890 --> 00:30:03,260 Speaker 1: The man he truly was. A charlatan. 463 00:30:05,830 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 2: When As I Lay Dying frontman Tim Lambesis confessed back 464 00:30:12,860 --> 00:30:17,340 Speaker 2: in 2014 that he had lost his faith and simultaneously 465 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,380 Speaker 2: revealed that the Christian metal. 466 00:30:20,060 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: Scene was, so he said, made up of phony non-believers... 467 00:30:34,350 --> 00:30:37,950 Speaker 1: It took a lot of fans by surprise. Perhaps it 468 00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:41,850 Speaker 1: shouldn't have. After all, this is coming from a 30-something-year-old 469 00:30:41,910 --> 00:30:44,220 Speaker 1: man who was confined to his parents' house with a 470 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,980 Speaker 1: GPS monitor stuck to his ankle, waiting to be sentenced 471 00:30:48,020 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: for trying to hire who he thought was a hitman 472 00:30:50,820 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: to murder his then-wife. Is it possible that Lambesis wanted 473 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,090 Speaker 1: to stir up some shit as he was being taken 474 00:30:57,150 --> 00:31:00,990 Speaker 1: down and thus take everyone down with him? Misery-loving company, 475 00:31:01,290 --> 00:31:03,750 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? Well, of course that's possible, 476 00:31:03,830 --> 00:31:07,790 Speaker 1: but Listen, losing your faith, going through periods of great doubt, 477 00:31:08,450 --> 00:31:11,590 Speaker 1: this is something that every believer goes through. Look up 478 00:31:11,610 --> 00:31:13,910 Speaker 1: the story of Thomas the Apostle in the Bible. Even 479 00:31:14,010 --> 00:31:18,010 Speaker 1: priests lose their faith. Martin Scorsese has made an entire 480 00:31:18,030 --> 00:31:22,210 Speaker 1: 50-plus year career out of this very subject. It's okay 481 00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:25,390 Speaker 1: to doubt because doubting is natural even amongst the most faithful. 482 00:31:25,870 --> 00:31:29,340 Speaker 1: It's okay for your faith to become unsteady. And if 483 00:31:29,380 --> 00:31:31,260 Speaker 1: it's cool for a priest to lose his faith or 484 00:31:31,300 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 1: confront the lack of faith, it's cool for an entire 485 00:31:34,780 --> 00:31:38,180 Speaker 1: music community, a community like the Christian metal scene, to 486 00:31:38,260 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: question their faith as well. But that doesn't necessarily make 487 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,050 Speaker 1: it phony or corrupt. What does make one phony or 488 00:31:46,110 --> 00:31:49,870 Speaker 1: corrupt is to be a fraud, F for fake, someone 489 00:31:49,890 --> 00:31:51,890 Speaker 1: who is willing to do anything in order to keep 490 00:31:51,930 --> 00:31:55,450 Speaker 1: themselves in the spotlight. Someone who will lie and cheat 491 00:31:55,550 --> 00:31:58,150 Speaker 1: and manipulate and distort the narrative so that it will 492 00:31:58,190 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: reflect favorably upon them. Which, as people such as Ken 493 00:32:02,170 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: Soucy and Danny Ciara have alleged, is exactly what Tim 494 00:32:06,260 --> 00:32:10,060 Speaker 1: Lambesis has done. And that's not even the craziest part 495 00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:15,980 Speaker 1: of this story. It was December of 2025, and Tim 496 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: Lambesis had managed to convince four new musicians to join 497 00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:22,980 Speaker 1: As I Lay Dying and head out on tour in 498 00:32:23,020 --> 00:32:25,750 Speaker 1: the new year Only this tour would take them to 499 00:32:25,810 --> 00:32:27,930 Speaker 1: one of the few places left in the world map 500 00:32:28,230 --> 00:32:33,150 Speaker 1: that would actually have them. Russia. And this is not 501 00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:35,550 Speaker 1: to say that Russia was the only place that would 502 00:32:35,630 --> 00:32:38,710 Speaker 1: book the infamous As I Lay Dying, but Russia is 503 00:32:38,750 --> 00:32:41,590 Speaker 1: where Lambesis and his new crew had chosen to make 504 00:32:41,610 --> 00:32:45,270 Speaker 1: their live debut two months earlier in October of 2025. 505 00:32:45,270 --> 00:32:50,820 Speaker 1: And after a few shows in Slovenia, Italy, Austria, Germany, 506 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,930 Speaker 1: and the Netherlands... Russia is where they plan to return 507 00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:58,260 Speaker 1: for 10 dates in March of 2026. This was a 508 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: highly unorthodox move, not to mention a highly frowned upon move, 509 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: because ever since Russia's invasion of Ukraine, a large majority 510 00:33:06,700 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: of American and Western bands have deliberately avoided performing in 511 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,610 Speaker 1: that country altogether. It was around the exact same time 512 00:33:14,810 --> 00:33:17,290 Speaker 1: that As I Lay Dying announced their return to Russia 513 00:33:17,310 --> 00:33:22,850 Speaker 1: that in December 2025 that Lambesis' ex-wife, Dani Ciara, appeared 514 00:33:22,910 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: as a guest on the Brutally Speaking podcast, the same 515 00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:29,860 Speaker 1: show that Ken Susie had appeared on months earlier. And 516 00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: just like Ken Susie, Dani had a bombshell or two 517 00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: to drop, which somehow turned out to be some of 518 00:33:36,380 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: the most insane revelations in this entire saga. At first, 519 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,060 Speaker 1: she talks to host John Beatty about her whirlwind courtship 520 00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:47,870 Speaker 1: with Lambesis, the bliss of those first dates, how he 521 00:33:47,930 --> 00:33:50,370 Speaker 1: swept her off her feet, and how they married just 522 00:33:50,470 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: weeks after meeting. But only six months into their marriage, 523 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: as Danny tells it, Lambesis had been unfaithful. She describes 524 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,580 Speaker 1: the day she found out as the worst day of 525 00:34:00,620 --> 00:34:03,860 Speaker 1: my life. And this led to arguments and violent outbursts 526 00:34:03,900 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: from Lambesis, which Danny attributed to his regular steroid use. 527 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: Danny doesn't deny screaming at Lambesis during their arguments. This 528 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,620 Speaker 1: was a guy who had cheated on his new wife 529 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,700 Speaker 1: and she was pissed off about it and She had 530 00:34:15,739 --> 00:34:17,779 Speaker 1: every right to be pissed off and every right to 531 00:34:17,820 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: scream at him. But Danny alleges that Lambesis then took 532 00:34:21,219 --> 00:34:25,129 Speaker 1: that security camera footage of their fights, manipulated it by 533 00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:28,770 Speaker 1: removing the audio, and emailed the silent video clips to 534 00:34:28,810 --> 00:34:31,370 Speaker 1: the rest of the band, thinking that he could spin 535 00:34:31,410 --> 00:34:34,730 Speaker 1: the truth and convince everyone that she was verbally or 536 00:34:34,860 --> 00:34:39,260 Speaker 1: emotionally abusing him. When in reality, she was just calling 537 00:34:39,300 --> 00:34:43,700 Speaker 1: him out for being a shitty husband. Now, The weird 538 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,779 Speaker 1: thing is that, as Danny tells it, Lambesis sent this 539 00:34:46,820 --> 00:34:49,219 Speaker 1: footage to the guys in As I Lay Dying using 540 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: some dummy email address so that it looked like it 541 00:34:52,260 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: was coming from a third party. How was this supposed 542 00:34:55,580 --> 00:34:59,580 Speaker 1: to help make Lambesis look innocent? I don't know. But 543 00:34:59,620 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: all it did was raise more flags because there was 544 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: no doubt in anyone's mind that the email came from 545 00:35:05,739 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: Tim Lambesis. According to Danny, he later admitted to sending 546 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: that email and said he's just trying to salvage his career. 547 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,580 Speaker 1: But one of the most fucked up accusations that Dani 548 00:35:15,620 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 1: makes during this nearly four-hour podcast interview about her ex-husband, 549 00:35:19,340 --> 00:35:22,900 Speaker 1: Tim Lambesis, is something that she stumbled upon while trying 550 00:35:22,940 --> 00:35:26,750 Speaker 1: to find more evidence of his cheating and lies. She 551 00:35:26,810 --> 00:35:33,569 Speaker 1: tells the host that she discovered AI-generated porn on Lambesis' smartphone. Specifically, 552 00:35:33,590 --> 00:35:37,489 Speaker 1: as she puts it, a pic of a kid like 553 00:35:37,730 --> 00:35:43,690 Speaker 1: erect making out with an adult woman. She says finding 554 00:35:43,730 --> 00:35:47,290 Speaker 1: this made her feel disgusting and gross, and when she 555 00:35:47,330 --> 00:35:52,340 Speaker 1: confronted Lambesis about it, he denied it. Danny Sierra told 556 00:35:52,380 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: the Brutally Speaking podcast that she has proof of the 557 00:35:56,180 --> 00:36:01,660 Speaker 1: AI-generated pornography she found on Tim Lambesis' phone. I don't 558 00:36:01,700 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: need to see that, because... Whatever with that. I've seen 559 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,459 Speaker 1: the leaked camera footage online of Tim Lambesis losing his shit, 560 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: violently flipping over furniture, grabbing his wife, beating his own 561 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,970 Speaker 1: head with his fists, and kicking a dog. I've read 562 00:36:16,989 --> 00:36:19,550 Speaker 1: through the reports of his trial, which cover in great 563 00:36:19,620 --> 00:36:22,089 Speaker 1: detail the lengths he went to have his first wife, 564 00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:25,370 Speaker 1: the mother of his three children, murdered. I've listened to 565 00:36:25,410 --> 00:36:28,870 Speaker 1: the testimonies of people who witnessed his toxic behavior. People 566 00:36:28,890 --> 00:36:32,270 Speaker 1: like As I Lay Dying's Ken Soucy and Lambesis' third wife, 567 00:36:32,330 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: Dani Ciara. And I've heard what this abusive, manipulative person 568 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,359 Speaker 1: has had to say about what he perceives to be 569 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,580 Speaker 1: the phony state of Christian metal. I guess what I'm 570 00:36:43,620 --> 00:36:47,020 Speaker 1: saying is, I'm prepared to make a judgment about the man. 571 00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:51,230 Speaker 1: But I'm not prepared to judge the entire music scene. 572 00:36:52,110 --> 00:36:56,370 Speaker 1: Because consider this. The biggest Christian metal story of this year, 2026, 573 00:36:56,370 --> 00:36:59,330 Speaker 1: involves one of the bands that As I Lay Dying 574 00:36:59,390 --> 00:37:02,609 Speaker 1: used to tour with on the Christian metal circuit, Demon Hunter. 575 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,500 Speaker 1: They made headlines when they sued Netflix for trademark infringement, 576 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,910 Speaker 1: among other things, over the streaming service's most watched film 577 00:37:10,030 --> 00:37:14,410 Speaker 1: of all time, K-pop Demon Hunters. In the lawsuit, the 578 00:37:14,450 --> 00:37:17,030 Speaker 1: band says that the title of the film has created 579 00:37:17,130 --> 00:37:21,330 Speaker 1: substantial confusion in the marketplace. People are buying tickets to 580 00:37:21,390 --> 00:37:24,890 Speaker 1: Demon Hunter shows, thinking they're going to see K-pop Demon Hunters, 581 00:37:25,510 --> 00:37:29,030 Speaker 1: and vice versa. Now, Demon Hunter, the Christian metal band, 582 00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:32,610 Speaker 1: doesn't want any confusion, substantial or otherwise, around who they are. 583 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: This is a band that proudly wears their Christianity on 584 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:41,310 Speaker 1: their sleeve. They're not ambiguous about their beliefs. They're not concerned, 585 00:37:41,550 --> 00:37:44,290 Speaker 1: as Lambesis has stated in the past, that they will 586 00:37:44,330 --> 00:37:47,790 Speaker 1: lose fans by aligning with their faith and aligning as 587 00:37:47,850 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: standard bearers for the Christian metal scene. There's nothing phony 588 00:37:52,469 --> 00:37:55,180 Speaker 1: about Demon Hunter. And I'm not sure we can ever 589 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,900 Speaker 1: say the same thing about Tim Lambesis and As I 590 00:37:57,940 --> 00:38:02,100 Speaker 1: Lay Dying ever again. And that's not necessarily because of 591 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,580 Speaker 1: the music. or the music scene, it's because the man 592 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:11,810 Speaker 1: is a disgrace. I'm Jake Brennan, and this is Disgraceland. 593 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,380 Speaker 1: All right, guys, thanks for checking out this episode of 594 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,509 Speaker 1: Disgraceland on Tim Lambesis. And as I lay dying, what 595 00:38:32,530 --> 00:38:34,270 Speaker 1: do you guys think? The question I'm trying to answer 596 00:38:34,310 --> 00:38:37,270 Speaker 1: here is the Christian metal scene full of charlatans, a 597 00:38:37,290 --> 00:38:40,339 Speaker 1: bunch of phonies. You heard where I came down on this, 598 00:38:40,460 --> 00:38:41,739 Speaker 1: but I want to know what you think. I wonder 599 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,649 Speaker 1: if you have any experience in this scene, especially. That's 600 00:38:44,670 --> 00:38:46,490 Speaker 1: what I'm most interested in. Have you gone to these shows? 601 00:38:46,510 --> 00:38:48,510 Speaker 1: Do you listen to these bands? Are you old school? 602 00:38:48,530 --> 00:38:51,270 Speaker 1: Were you vibing on Striper back in the day? Are 603 00:38:51,310 --> 00:38:52,950 Speaker 1: you an As I Lay Dying fan? What do you 604 00:38:52,969 --> 00:38:57,580 Speaker 1: think of all this? Hit me up, 617-906-6638. Voicemail and text. 605 00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,839 Speaker 1: You want to hear yourself on the next episode of 606 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: the After Party, our bonus episodes. Hit me up. You 607 00:39:02,940 --> 00:39:06,020 Speaker 1: can also email me, disgracelandpod at gmail.com. Hit me on 608 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:11,489 Speaker 1: the socials at disgracelandpod. Here comes some credits. Disgraceland was 609 00:39:11,530 --> 00:39:14,410 Speaker 1: created by yours truly and is produced in partnership with 610 00:39:14,489 --> 00:39:19,260 Speaker 1: Double Elvis, The Exactly Right Network, and iHeart Podcast. Credits 611 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,459 Speaker 1: for this episode can be found on the show notes 612 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:26,009 Speaker 1: page at disgracelandpod.com. If you're listening as a Disgraceland All 613 00:39:26,110 --> 00:39:28,850 Speaker 1: Access member, thank you for supporting the show. We really 614 00:39:28,890 --> 00:39:31,540 Speaker 1: appreciate it. And if not, you can become a member 615 00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: right now by going to disgracelandpod.com slash membership. Members can 616 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,739 Speaker 1: listen to every episode of Disgraceland ad-free. Rate and review 617 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 1: the show and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, and 618 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: Facebook at disgracelandpod and on YouTube at youtube.com slash at disgracelandpod. Rock-a-rola. 619 00:39:51,020 --> 00:39:53,310 Speaker 2: He's a bad, bad man.