Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless,
Speaker 1: severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast.
Speaker 1: You can't predict anything presented by first like creating proven
Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear
Speaker 1: for every hunt first light, go farther, stay longer? Are
Speaker 1: you on? Phil? Might as just cover this we're on.
Speaker 1: I think a great app for Doug and you could
Speaker 1: call it Doug Durn would be like, you just turn
Speaker 1: your phone on. This is safe, Doug. This is safe.
Speaker 1: Dog a lot of trouble, especially if he cuts off
Speaker 1: his fingers off in a farm accident, like, yeah, he's looking,
Speaker 1: He's already got a named up. If Doug had an
Speaker 1: app that he could just turn his phone on, right,
Speaker 1: turned like the voice recorder on, and it would just
Speaker 1: fact check everything everybody told him for him anyways, and
Speaker 1: then do alerts when he found a problem. So that
Speaker 1: way Doug could like maintain eye contact with people he's
Speaker 1: talking to and not be busy typing everything you tell
Speaker 1: him into his phone to find out but what you
Speaker 1: said isn't actually true. Yeah, right, he's fact checking you.
Speaker 1: I'll still part of the conversation. Yeah, I'll be like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know acorns, you know they as see as they
Speaker 1: sure they drop around you know October second, Well, actually
Speaker 1: you know if you look October one's peak, acorn dropped there.
Speaker 1: We had an argument about how many discussion I should
Speaker 1: say about how many acorns and oak tree drops when
Speaker 1: Steve was at the place one time, and um, I
Speaker 1: don't know, it was widely varying. I said ten thousand,
Speaker 1: he said a thousand or something like that, and we
Speaker 1: were trying to find it on Google as I do
Speaker 1: and as I'm as I'm talking right, And at that
Speaker 1: moment a friend of mine calls and I said, well,
Speaker 1: this guy I'll know, and Steve goes, okay, this is
Speaker 1: the Whatever he says is the answer. And I think
Speaker 1: he said a thousand, and he's I'm no longer friends
Speaker 1: with that guy. I feel like that's conversation to have
Speaker 1: with Clay. I'm taking my I'm taking my kids to
Speaker 1: Dug Durn's the spring, and um, a lot of enthusiasm
Speaker 1: about ditch burning because they got to burn ditches. It
Speaker 1: dugs and they're like anything that's on fire and imagine
Speaker 1: if fired it's three yards long. It's like there's like
Speaker 1: for a kid, there's you know nothing because at the
Speaker 1: problem with every fire is in their mind, every fire
Speaker 1: is not long enough. But here's a fire that runs
Speaker 1: way down the road with a crook in the middle
Speaker 1: of it too that you possibly where you can get
Speaker 1: you can get burnt, and two soakers just to keep
Speaker 1: the excitement alive. This past spring, I ended up moving
Speaker 1: the fire across the road and damn near burning pine
Speaker 1: trees down Yeah. I was gett a little stressed out.
Speaker 1: The pine duff caught on fire. So the next thing
Speaker 1: you know, we had a hose down there and Jimmy
Speaker 1: was getting fire instructions from Steve. I felt like put
Speaker 1: a little helmet on him. They were like, okay, dial
Speaker 1: nine one and put your finger on the one. All right.
Speaker 1: So Doug's obviously here, Sean Weavers here, Krian Spencing, New
Speaker 1: Hearts way down in the corner. Spencer's gonna hit us
Speaker 1: with another little Google fact before we proceed. Phil, who
Speaker 1: looked like a skater a minute ago. But you took
Speaker 1: that skater hat off. This is this is the hat
Speaker 1: I wear when um my hair looks like shit. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: warm Springs production hat. That's right. Cute little bang sticking
Speaker 1: out of their T shirt. Thanks man, Ritchie, Ritchie one,
Speaker 1: tell tell me what you want Richie. And were you
Speaker 1: surprised when he won? Uh? Yeah, no I was. I
Speaker 1: was very surprised that nothing like that ever happens to me. Mum,
Speaker 1: I'm the podcast winner of the trip you giveaway. So
Speaker 1: so how did how did we know? How did like
Speaker 1: meat Eater notify you that you want the thing and
Speaker 1: we're coming to play trivia? Well, that was really bad
Speaker 1: about checking my email that week that I won and
Speaker 1: I almost missed out on it. We they almost moved
Speaker 1: down to the next person moved on. That's that. That's
Speaker 1: actually really strict. I believe it. It has to be
Speaker 1: right when I've been involved in t RCP giveaways. Um,
Speaker 1: there's sort of like the set thing. It's like there's
Speaker 1: this set cadence in which you notify especially and then
Speaker 1: you have to like bump along and you can't. I'll
Speaker 1: spare everybody, But anyways, you probably probably did get lucky,
Speaker 1: very lucky because the one year colleagues actually found my
Speaker 1: numbers somewhere and Karin called me out of the blue,
Speaker 1: so she had it broke some kind of law. Maybe
Speaker 1: I don't know what you guys laws are on that,
Speaker 1: but yeah, like the sweep Steaks people sweep like the
Speaker 1: sleep Steaks version of the A T F At what
Speaker 1: age do you decide if you're Ritchie with a Y
Speaker 1: or Richie with an I E? What do you what
Speaker 1: do you use? So you do R I C H Y. Yeah,
Speaker 1: since I learned how to write my name Tucson, Arizona, Arizona.
Speaker 1: If you had to put your trivia skills on a
Speaker 1: sliding scale at one to ten, where would you land?
Speaker 1: It depends on the day of the week. Someday you're
Speaker 1: pretty hot, Sundays I'm hot, Somedays I'm not. Spencer hit
Speaker 1: him with a sample trivia. A sample sample trivia. Here's
Speaker 1: my favorite trivia question. We use it all the time. Okay, okay, Well,
Speaker 1: let me think of a good one name for me.
Speaker 1: M h okay. I've got a good one, but I
Speaker 1: don't want to burn it because I gave it the
Speaker 1: Spencer and it will be a good one. Oh, here's
Speaker 1: a good one. This is watch this segue pronounced this
Speaker 1: word for me? Oh, cow's cups? Which version you want see?
Speaker 1: He already wont answer. The answer was the correct answer
Speaker 1: was depends. I had me a brand new sticker from
Speaker 1: Jim Heffelfinger's also here and Ross Comperman from First Lights here,
Speaker 1: my esteemed colleague. Great to be here, Uh, Jim Heffelfinger. UM,
Speaker 1: I don't want to say you and dog are my
Speaker 1: favorite people, but you're up there, up there. Um brought
Speaker 1: me a sticker that says here here, here's the problem
Speaker 1: with the sticker. Okay, yeah, no, I'm gonna read it
Speaker 1: like this. It's a sticker with a picture of Elliott
Speaker 1: cous Elliott cows. Okay, cows, just like Okay, this guy
Speaker 1: believed in levitation. He was kind of a crackpot. He
Speaker 1: was kind of a cracker. He was like he had
Speaker 1: some hits, a brilliant people are Yeah, he had some
Speaker 1: hits and some misses. Uh pronounced his name cows cows.
Speaker 1: And now there's a spirited debate whether you say a
Speaker 1: cus deer or a cow's deer. I would say there's
Speaker 1: not much debate, everybody, because I always earned to Um.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that these things existed until I became
Speaker 1: a subscriber to Western Hunter magazine, published by Chris Denham
Speaker 1: Denham and Chris Denham told me that he'll say who's
Speaker 1: till the day he dies, and he doesn't care what
Speaker 1: anybody says. So I just said a lot of people
Speaker 1: like that. I adopted that, but half a finger actually
Speaker 1: wrote you wrote like an academic paper, no magazine article
Speaker 1: being Yeah, I'll be in the next issue of that.
Speaker 1: It was in a while, ife views and he goes
Speaker 1: into all the details. Okay, go ahead, hit me with it.
Speaker 1: Talk me into it, because I'm not gonna switch, but
Speaker 1: talk me into it. Yeah, And that's the issue I
Speaker 1: didn't tell the good part of the sticker. The good
Speaker 1: part of the sticker says, it says who's white tail deer?
Speaker 1: No it doesn't. It says who's white tail dear? Butcher
Speaker 1: the deer, not the name. Before you go, before you talk,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna point something out you. When you write white
Speaker 1: tailed deer, you do white hyphen tailed. When we do
Speaker 1: books and our books go to the final copy edit person,
Speaker 1: like the real crackpot copy editors, they always do that.
Speaker 1: They always change it to that, and I always set
Speaker 1: it said it meaning I always reject the correction and
Speaker 1: I make it say white tail. So you're wrong on
Speaker 1: a couple counts on that one sticker sticker and you've
Speaker 1: got two errors. Let me tell you something. Are you
Speaker 1: familiar with um? Like? Uh? When it comes to English
Speaker 1: language use, there's sort of like two dictionaries, right, there's
Speaker 1: two types descriptive in prescriptive no meaning, one seeks to
Speaker 1: describe how the language is used, and one seeks to
Speaker 1: advise on how to use the language. I to be
Speaker 1: more descriptive. And when I see a deer, like let's
Speaker 1: Sam's sitting there in a place that has mule deer
Speaker 1: and white tails, and someone says, okay, do I say, oh, no,
Speaker 1: that's a white tailed deer. I don't. I'll go that's
Speaker 1: the white tail. I say white tail. But when I
Speaker 1: write it, you know, the correct way to write it
Speaker 1: is white tailed deer. So when you write it it
Speaker 1: has to be As a biologist, it has to be
Speaker 1: white tailed deer. But in the magazine, I say white tails.
Speaker 1: When I'm sitting braocular, I say white tails. Okay, taught
Speaker 1: me to tell me why it's cows. And I'll never
Speaker 1: bring it up for the rest of my life. But
Speaker 1: I won't I won't switch. That'll never bring it up
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. It's just pretty simple.
Speaker 1: His name was pronounced cows. How did everybody? Did he
Speaker 1: tell you his name? And he did? Actually, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: so late was he levitating? He was? He wrote a
Speaker 1: book called Kyle check Lists of Birds in North America,
Speaker 1: and one of those birds has a subspecies name that's
Speaker 1: cows named after him. And he has a footnote that says,
Speaker 1: here's how my family name is pronounced ceow z. So he,
Speaker 1: in his own words, in his own publication, tells everybody
Speaker 1: how to pronounce his name. So there's really no there's
Speaker 1: no question how it's supposed to be pronounced. There's a
Speaker 1: big question of how people choose to pronounce it. I
Speaker 1: then you choose to pronounced any way they want, but
Speaker 1: they should recognize what's correct. What is it? I don't
Speaker 1: know how you come back from that. Yeah, that's hard
Speaker 1: to come back to it. I mean, elliot, come back
Speaker 1: like you come back with a sentence like this. Me
Speaker 1: and Ross are going coos. You're hunting in January. That
Speaker 1: reminds me of the white tailed versus white tail reminds
Speaker 1: me of one. Damn So if your car doesn't start
Speaker 1: in the morning, are you someone that says, my damn
Speaker 1: car didn't start, or my damned car didn't start. I've
Speaker 1: had this debate with several people. I fall into the
Speaker 1: ladder like it was, you'll put the d on there.
Speaker 1: It was damned that's why it didn't start. On the switch,
Speaker 1: I will switch that. I don't know. Right there, I go,
Speaker 1: Spencer hits with your quick little factor, not little, a
Speaker 1: little factoid, your little punt gun factoid? What that? I
Speaker 1: don't believe, But I kind of think. I don't think
Speaker 1: Sean and I came to an agreement because I can't
Speaker 1: find anything definitive. The only thing I can find is
Speaker 1: on You're not gonna accept this Wikipedia. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: listen man, h no, I'm not. I'm not. When you're
Speaker 1: if you're at a like an actual if you're writing
Speaker 1: for um um, when you go through the fact check
Speaker 1: process that a magazine, they won't accept Wikipedia. But is
Speaker 1: there a is there a footnote like source? Yeah? But
Speaker 1: then I can't find anything within that source that backs
Speaker 1: up with the Spencers trying to tell me that in
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty they had already banned the punt gun. I
Speaker 1: feel like it was a rolling band that like some
Speaker 1: states were out lying, and then at one point it's like, uh,
Speaker 1: everybody said no to it. This sentence again, you're not
Speaker 1: gonna accept it from Wikipedia, tis in the United States
Speaker 1: to practice depleted there, this practice depleted stocks of wild waterfowl.
Speaker 1: By the eighteen sixties, most states had banned the practice.
Speaker 1: Lacy Act of nineteen Hunter banned the transport of wild
Speaker 1: game across state lines in the practice of marketing. Market
Speaker 1: hunting was outlied outlawed by a series of federal laws
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighteen. I don't feel like that's satisfied, Trivia voice, Dude,
Speaker 1: you they're just still not buying it, because, like I
Speaker 1: can sit here right here, there's a nineteen fourteen listing
Speaker 1: of the punt gun owners in suth Quhana Flats. There's
Speaker 1: like a punt guns Association, punt gun enthusiasts. You know,
Speaker 1: when I was researching the punt gun, they still have
Speaker 1: like wildlife officers in India that will confiscate like two
Speaker 1: or three a year from people that are out killing
Speaker 1: waterfowl with them. Man, I think that we should and
Speaker 1: I'll okay this right here and now I think we
Speaker 1: gotta get it. We gotta start getting in on those
Speaker 1: sites where you can buy a punt gun and get
Speaker 1: a punt gun, start messing around with it out in
Speaker 1: the field. Yeah, that we should get a punt gun.
Speaker 1: Let's do that and some real cheap, beat up old
Speaker 1: decoys Facebook Marketplace or something. See how big a spread
Speaker 1: we can hit clay pigeons. I don't know that works.
Speaker 1: I would love to get a punt gun and start
Speaker 1: having become like a punt gun enthusiast. Do you think
Speaker 1: your kids would be more into the fire or the
Speaker 1: punt gun. Oh, if we got a big ditch fire
Speaker 1: going and then we're gonna shot the punt gun down
Speaker 1: into the fire, we don't have to choose, they would
Speaker 1: like Yeah, they would be very into that. I want
Speaker 1: in on this. That sounds awesome. Rosby shoved my kids
Speaker 1: out of the way, and we can we can get
Speaker 1: this punk gun like an LLC. Get about twenty of us, right,
Speaker 1: and everyone pitches in a couple of hundred bucks. We
Speaker 1: got a punk gun all of a sudden. No, I
Speaker 1: just think that, well, I think that that that our
Speaker 1: company will just buy the punt gun. There you go,
Speaker 1: that's good. Can you start bidding on punt guns for us?
Speaker 1: I will do some real research because I feel like
Speaker 1: you're being for real. Oh, I'm dead serious. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put the mic down now and start typing.
Speaker 1: So I thought Steve was joking about this lazy boy
Speaker 1: you're sitting in Spencer for months. It turns out he wasn't.
Speaker 1: So I would say just go ahead. If we had
Speaker 1: a punt gun, I would become a punt gun enthusiast.
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Uh that's a great segue. And u um,
Speaker 1: another edition of Shaun's Duck Report. Now, Sean, I gotta
Speaker 1: warn you you get to talking about science E stuff.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, you gotta health finger sitting here. That's fair.
Speaker 1: So normally when someone talks about something science E. A
Speaker 1: couple days later I get an email being actually so
Speaker 1: he's just gonna be able to live do it? Dogs
Speaker 1: already typing out he started started and dogs already typing
Speaker 1: this one. Well, I actually wanted to talk about two
Speaker 1: different waterfoul things because one is like constant email thing
Speaker 1: we get or you know, messages on Instagram whatever else. Right,
Speaker 1: breast first one this year, I mean the first one
Speaker 1: that was so bad it was unquestionably inedible during the
Speaker 1: Youth Duck season. Yeah, what do you mean, I mean
Speaker 1: inedible because it messes with you because it's not inedible.
Speaker 1: That's the conversation I want to have about this. It's this.
Speaker 1: If it was like a thing that was happening to
Speaker 1: me all the time, I'd get over it. Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: raising a family now. I picked my battles night. We
Speaker 1: had ducks and duck hearts. Pretty impressive. Why I what
Speaker 1: I do is I take um bear fat or pork fat,
Speaker 1: and I simmer the duck hearts in the at for
Speaker 1: a long time, just in the bubbles. Then I put
Speaker 1: them on a skewer and put him on a hot grill. Okay,
Speaker 1: I make my kids eat them. Do they like them
Speaker 1: or do they object? No, they end up liking them.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, eat that. Then you have the other stuff. Okay,
Speaker 1: do they know what it is, Steve, Oh yeah, it's
Speaker 1: got it's got a hole in it, so yeah, that's
Speaker 1: where his blood comes in and out. Um. But if
Speaker 1: I don't want to do like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: do the I didn't want to serve that. There's been
Speaker 1: one we we believe in the like everybody's got it.
Speaker 1: We don't cook special stuff like everybody eats everybody eats.
Speaker 1: There's been one time we had something made out of
Speaker 1: older deer's liver and my daughter's crying about it. She
Speaker 1: didn't like it, and um, I was like, I don't care,
Speaker 1: and then my wife. If my wife goes rosy, you
Speaker 1: don't need to eat that. But yeah, it would just
Speaker 1: cause a lot of trouble if i'd but because we
Speaker 1: were all looking at it, and if I served it,
Speaker 1: it would have set me back and then like I
Speaker 1: would have lost credibility. So here's where here's the point
Speaker 1: I bring up that I feel like doesn't ever get discussed.
Speaker 1: The only time I ever noticed rice breast personally is
Speaker 1: if I've breasted a bird. But if you're plucking your birds,
Speaker 1: you're never looking past the skin. So you're probably a
Speaker 1: lot of rice breasted birds. This is you're doing a microaggression. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let me tell you something. Let me tell you something.
Speaker 1: You ever hunt you do you ever hunt youth duck season? Yes?
Speaker 1: And I know you're not plucking them. Then I there,
Speaker 1: they got all the pin feathers. They got all the
Speaker 1: pin feathers, of course, and there's no fat and the
Speaker 1: skin is too thin. My entire point is that the
Speaker 1: the discussion around the messages I get around like should
Speaker 1: I eat a rice breasted birds? Only because so rice
Speaker 1: breast is uh sarco cystus. It's pretty much ciss in
Speaker 1: the breasts of the duck that look like rice. Hence
Speaker 1: the rice breast. Is it all posters? It is it posters?
Speaker 1: A little worms. They're technically assist created by whatever the
Speaker 1: parasite is. That's it's not actual worms. It's just a
Speaker 1: cyst created by the parasite and minor infection. Oh and
Speaker 1: it looks, I mean, it looks ridiculous. It gets and
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, it seems like birds you shoot early
Speaker 1: in the year, you know, shovelers off the local ship ponds.
Speaker 1: Tends to be like the duck you find with it.
Speaker 1: It's not pleasant to look at it all. If I
Speaker 1: give if, if if I gave you a Pepsi challenge
Speaker 1: of the most rice breasted duck on the planet, m
Speaker 1: in a non do you feel that you'd be able
Speaker 1: to pick out the rice breast? Oh? No, I don't. Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know you've been eating them. I've never not
Speaker 1: eating them. Yes, the double negative, because because like it's
Speaker 1: a mess, it's a point for me is like that.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I've eaten dozens of rice breast birds when
Speaker 1: they're plucked, but you so why not eat them when
Speaker 1: they're breasted because I feel like, let me ask you,
Speaker 1: yess no question, a tournament to tacos so you don't
Speaker 1: have to look at it. Have you ever found one
Speaker 1: so bad that you discarded it? I probably have when
Speaker 1: I was younger, not anytime recently. So your your hypothesis
Speaker 1: is because you know or probability wise, you've probably ingested
Speaker 1: this several times without knowing it and nothing bad ostensibly
Speaker 1: happened to you. That is perfectly fine. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's like unanimous that it's doesn't affect it doesn't hurt
Speaker 1: humans in any way. It just grows to look at
Speaker 1: cook it, like let's just say you smoke a sarcrocystic
Speaker 1: duck breast or you you know, grill it or you like,
Speaker 1: can you actually look at the cooked meat and see
Speaker 1: that there is a difference and is there a textural
Speaker 1: difference when you're you definitely see it, but I haven't
Speaker 1: noticed it like texture wise. But you have a picture
Speaker 1: here that that's an extreme case. That's an extreme case.
Speaker 1: That's what I had this. That's what we had this
Speaker 1: youth season. One duck had it? Really Now call Hint
Speaker 1: mentioned to me that he mentioned to be something to
Speaker 1: the effective. I'm not surprised because it's been such a
Speaker 1: warm fall. Does that make any sense to you? I
Speaker 1: have no clue. I don't know enough about it. I
Speaker 1: don't think Jim, I don't either, have ever never heard
Speaker 1: that relationship. We'll give it go go on? Are Is
Speaker 1: that all you're gonna say about that? That's all I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about. What that was? Just raised that
Speaker 1: point that nothing's gonna happen to you. It's just it's unsightly.
Speaker 1: But there's no thing that says you're gonna wind up
Speaker 1: with a deadly parasite. Now. Now, yeah, jack rabbits in
Speaker 1: southern Arizona have have taper rom larva, and that it's
Speaker 1: not the kind of tape f rom they can affect human.
Speaker 1: So you can technically, as long as you cook a
Speaker 1: good you can eat it, and we do. If there's
Speaker 1: a few tape room here and there, we still keep
Speaker 1: all the meat. But sometimes you get one that's just loaded,
Speaker 1: and that one we let the kyot tab. Do you know, hum,
Speaker 1: I have a new doctor, the world's greatest doctor. Her
Speaker 1: name is Katie m Yanni's doctor too. I just found out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's so tight lipped. She is. She's so tight lipped.
Speaker 1: She didn't tell me she was Yanni's doctor. Well I don't.
Speaker 1: I think there's some laws about that. Well, she sticks
Speaker 1: to him. I found out from Yanni was his doctor
Speaker 1: because I'm down there breaking a thing. I'm down there
Speaker 1: telling her about me and Yanni and the trickonosis situation.
Speaker 1: And she's not like, oh, yeah, that's my patient. He
Speaker 1: told me that too. She played totally dumb. But now
Speaker 1: sarr In they and he's like, that's my doctor. I
Speaker 1: told her about that, so impress. Anyways, she's getting this
Speaker 1: whole thing rolling too. She's helping us pursue this biopsy
Speaker 1: in state in state m HM, to get the deep
Speaker 1: muscle biopsy and our biceps to find those little larva's
Speaker 1: in there. I have some more info for you about that. Well,
Speaker 1: I need to connect you with my uh doctor. She'll
Speaker 1: probably play dumb with you. Is the is it um
Speaker 1: is her last initial in the second half of the alphabet.
Speaker 1: You can say her name, do it again, Oh that's
Speaker 1: your doctor. Yeah, world's greatest doctor. Uh okay, go launch on. Okay.
Speaker 1: So the like the waterfowl topic I wanted to really
Speaker 1: talk about today was specific to this year, which is
Speaker 1: the crazy weather we've been having and how it affects
Speaker 1: waterfowl specifically, like um, two things, one being the drought
Speaker 1: that's been pervasive across the country, especially the west. Um,
Speaker 1: and to just how mild it's been. But first and
Speaker 1: foremost was last winter, well last fall winter and into
Speaker 1: the spring was about as dry as you could ever
Speaker 1: ask for in the Dakotas and Saskatchewan, which is where
Speaker 1: most the continents waterfowl nest um prairie pothole region. North
Speaker 1: Dakota was down on their pond counts in May. Are
Speaker 1: you serious? Yeah? Sixty seven percent below the long term average,
Speaker 1: which you can only imagine how many fewer ducks at
Speaker 1: least you've gotta be kidding. Pond countdown, poncomp meeting someone
Speaker 1: counting baby do like no so um, sorry, not the
Speaker 1: actual counting of ducks, but the physical ponds like spots
Speaker 1: for them nest on reduction. And yeah, so if there
Speaker 1: was a hundred times last year, now there's twenty or whatever.
Speaker 1: No ship So we don't know that that will correlate.
Speaker 1: I mean, we obvious obviously it's not good, But you
Speaker 1: don't know that that means necessarily a reduction in ducks
Speaker 1: because there could be some buffering of some sort. But
Speaker 1: we know it, I mean, we know there's the relationship
Speaker 1: of that it hurts the duck population in addition to that,
Speaker 1: which um, luckily we have like long term harvest data
Speaker 1: and like adaptive management, but we also like don't we
Speaker 1: didn't have counts from Canada because of COVID, so we're
Speaker 1: kind of a little blind right now on like what
Speaker 1: the duck duck population might be with this drought. To
Speaker 1: go like a little more into how severe the drought was, Bismarck,
Speaker 1: North Dakota recorded their third driest year on record, only
Speaker 1: preceded by dust bowl years, which I mean, that's that's
Speaker 1: pretty extreme. Well, anyway, what all this comes back to
Speaker 1: is like we know, just based on the pond counts
Speaker 1: and the water situation, that we have less ducks going
Speaker 1: into fall this year. We don't know exactly what that
Speaker 1: number looks like because we didn't get a waterfowl count,
Speaker 1: but we had less ducks going into the fall. And
Speaker 1: then in addition to that, we have like undeniable warming.
Speaker 1: We have just so much warmer falls. Last fall November
Speaker 1: was the warmest November on record ever. Um this November
Speaker 1: was the seventh warmest November on record in the United States,
Speaker 1: and it was also like the eighth driest was the
Speaker 1: average war like averaged out to be the warmest Norman's
Speaker 1: November on record. Yeah, and so what this like, what
Speaker 1: this eventually leads to is just this later shift in
Speaker 1: the waterfowl migration. And you have and there's several factors
Speaker 1: that I'll discuss as I like keep coming on, because
Speaker 1: there's it's a very complicated issue. It's beyond just whether
Speaker 1: it's beyond just drought. It has to do with agriculture,
Speaker 1: it has to do with urbanization. Like, there's so many factors,
Speaker 1: but one of them that this year is so undeniable
Speaker 1: is like the weather, the climate has changed and the
Speaker 1: ducks are moving south later. And there's a lot of
Speaker 1: frustrated people so far this season. For sure, it's been
Speaker 1: a hard duck season for a lot of people. You
Speaker 1: pointed out that Minnesota just had their um first recorded
Speaker 1: December tornado. Yeah, I mean talking about tornadoes in Minnesota.
Speaker 1: What was December wild mm hmm, yeah. I was in
Speaker 1: South Texas last week for my son's graduation to get
Speaker 1: a PhD in wildlife. We went down there to see
Speaker 1: him walk shout out to Levi ninety degrees for the
Speaker 1: commencement December, and it just like leaves water, you know,
Speaker 1: the waterfowl hunters in the North, Like the data shows
Speaker 1: that there duck hunting success doesn't necessarily get affected by
Speaker 1: weather changes because inevitably, like hunters in North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: they already have the birds. The birds are nesting there
Speaker 1: or like they're the birds never don't come that far south.
Speaker 1: They always at least get that far. But um, there's
Speaker 1: quite a bit of data and and like a correlation
Speaker 1: of the the lower the pond counts and the warmer
Speaker 1: the year, like just obviously I mean anecdotally but also
Speaker 1: scientifically makes sense. The South struggles they don't kill as
Speaker 1: many ducks, didn't you last wasn't last year one of
Speaker 1: the highest? Um, I guess I would call it pond counts,
Speaker 1: But there was a lot of water in the Dakotas
Speaker 1: as two years ago. And we're going through some just
Speaker 1: wild fluctuations, flood drought, flood drought. And it's because it
Speaker 1: was only I would I would say it was probably
Speaker 1: four or five years ago we were at the highest
Speaker 1: duck count ever. Oh really, and then now we're on
Speaker 1: a real slide. Highest duck count or highest pond duck
Speaker 1: count just five years. The reason we don't have duck
Speaker 1: counts the last two years is COVID. Hey, guy, I
Speaker 1: put in a request for the next first songs for
Speaker 1: the next John's Duck Report or whenever sometime in the future,
Speaker 1: can you do a duck report on age demographics? Oh
Speaker 1: of duck hunters or no, no, no, I don't care
Speaker 1: about that. Of the ducks. Ducks. Maybe age demographic of
Speaker 1: ducks old asked ducks, We shot a duck or not
Speaker 1: a duck? Sorry, but you throw this into it water
Speaker 1: like age demographics on waterfowl. Okay, uh. Did you hear
Speaker 1: about when we called in a sandhill? We had a
Speaker 1: sandhill crane. It was banded seventeen years prior in Fairbanks, Alaska.
Speaker 1: We killed in Texas. Yeah, that's so crazy. My exaggerating.
Speaker 1: I think that No, no, no, that's not exaggerating. I
Speaker 1: think it was seventeen, when I was guiding snow goose hunce,
Speaker 1: we had an eighteen year old snow goose that was
Speaker 1: banded as an adult. Yeah, this was banded as an adult.
Speaker 1: And you know it's funny. I had been to where
Speaker 1: it was banded. I like when that happens. We Uh,
Speaker 1: we shot a duck in Oklahoma that was banded where
Speaker 1: I live in South Dakota, Oklahoma, to kill a duck
Speaker 1: that was where we were. Uh. Any harvest data coming
Speaker 1: in on ducks from this year? Is it a low duck?
Speaker 1: Is it a low duck here? Is it a good
Speaker 1: duck here? It's it's a bad duck here. I mean,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen any actual harvest data, but I can't
Speaker 1: imagine it's going to be good. It was five years ago,
Speaker 1: a good duck here. Yeah, we're on a we're just
Speaker 1: in general, on a downhill trend of like overall hunter
Speaker 1: success anyway. And that's kind of what I want to
Speaker 1: discuss in future duct reports, is all the different factors
Speaker 1: that are affecting that really, because it's not just as
Speaker 1: simple as like there's less ducks and it's too warm.
Speaker 1: It's it gets way more complicated than that. When you
Speaker 1: start talking about like crop distribution and even stuff like
Speaker 1: um power plants and industrial plants and urbanization, like all
Speaker 1: that is affecting. But I'll I can't get all into it.
Speaker 1: We'll be here for hours. But there's there's a lot
Speaker 1: of factors leading to lower hunter success on ducks. But
Speaker 1: then you look at like sandhill cranes, snow geese, geese. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like speckle bellies are booming right now, speckle bellies are
Speaker 1: I think anecdotally, I think twenty years from now, we'll
Speaker 1: be looking at speckle bellies the same way we look
Speaker 1: at snow geese now of like just unbelievable population growth.
Speaker 1: But ducks are not in the same not in the
Speaker 1: same ballpark at all. And it really comes back to
Speaker 1: that prairie poptle region. I mean, that is it. It's
Speaker 1: up to the continents nesting ducks. So if the Dakotas
Speaker 1: in Saskatchewan are in a drought, you just don't have ducks.
Speaker 1: Got m hm. I feel like a lot of folks
Speaker 1: will listen to what Sean just said and be like,
Speaker 1: I fucking told you this year sucks. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: us ducks. There's a like there's a certain element to
Speaker 1: it for sure, that like it's just, um, it's cyclical,
Speaker 1: just like any population of animals, and ducks are probably
Speaker 1: even more so than a lot of animals. You can't
Speaker 1: change what the jet stream is doing, or you know,
Speaker 1: what rain does or what snow does. Yeah. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that's an interesting point because I feel like with
Speaker 1: big game animals, we have a tendency to blame it
Speaker 1: on our own behavior to some degree predator management. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And with waterfowl, it's more of this mystique of like,
Speaker 1: I don't get it, but I'm not seeing as many ducks.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's me. I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's the blind I'm hunting in. I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's you know, but he's calling. But it happening this year,
Speaker 1: and we can't blame it on ourselves as easily, so
Speaker 1: it becomes less. Yeah, less are well, And I think, um,
Speaker 1: you know, we could end up with a snowy winner
Speaker 1: and by next spring be back into the you know,
Speaker 1: back into the game, like have all all sorts of ponds.
Speaker 1: It's that's all it is. You guys just gotta deal
Speaker 1: with it, get used to it, find ways to be
Speaker 1: successful anyway. Yeah, and and just like be willing to
Speaker 1: adjust the conditions and go different places or like you know,
Speaker 1: not sit on the same pond every day expecting that
Speaker 1: like you know that all of a sudden, the ducks
Speaker 1: are just gonna appear, Like sometimes you're just gonna have
Speaker 1: to go out and search for those like yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be fewer ducks, but you still gotta just,
Speaker 1: like anything, you gotta go find them. Remember the late
Speaker 1: nineties when everyone was you know, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you can hunt geese and like we're all getting like
Speaker 1: bit by mosquitoes hunting geese in the late summer. Is
Speaker 1: that still going on? Yeah? South Dakota and North Dakota
Speaker 1: still have an August goose season because then you get
Speaker 1: like in the in the East, like that goose flyaway
Speaker 1: is kind of screwed right now. Yeah, they're they're down there,
Speaker 1: I think one a day. But then like golf course
Speaker 1: golf course geese in the Midwest. What's the difference between
Speaker 1: those two things? Like you could do that now or
Speaker 1: you can make that a show. And that's that's uh.
Speaker 1: I think that comes back to the urbanization conversation that
Speaker 1: we got there, they're like a winner. Yeah, like to
Speaker 1: some level, Like well, of course Canada geese have one
Speaker 1: with urbanization, but also somewhat mallards, right, maybe not population wide,
Speaker 1: but like mallards have definitely adapted to urbanization way better
Speaker 1: than any other duck. Friends of mine and Fairbanks were
Speaker 1: saying that they've got mallards on the university on the
Speaker 1: campus an Anchorage and Fairbanks they got mallards that have
Speaker 1: found a way to overwinter. Yeah, that's great. And he
Speaker 1: said they just get fat and lazy and overwinter in
Speaker 1: these sort of like populated areas with bubblers and stuff,
Speaker 1: you know. And he said, and then he's ducks show
Speaker 1: up in the spring, migrators and it's some like haggard
Speaker 1: mail that's been like starving to death flying back home.
Speaker 1: And he said, those big fat ones come up and
Speaker 1: be like I'll take it. I'll take her from your
Speaker 1: boys like that has been biding their time. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is this is definitely uh like put a tab
Speaker 1: on this because we're gonna keep talking about this. There's
Speaker 1: there's some interesting studies and just conversations around the urbanization stuff,
Speaker 1: so we'll cover that another time, for sure, got it, Okay, Ross,
Speaker 1: you ready, let's do it. I think so. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you run the program at First Light. You're a duck enthusiast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Earlier I was saying that Ross is
Speaker 1: a big time duck hunter, and Ross contested to say
Speaker 1: he's a long time duck hunter. Yeah. I mean at
Speaker 1: one point, uh, Steve and I and I think Dan
Speaker 1: had a conversation about the intersection of passion and talent
Speaker 1: and how this sometimes there isn't said intersection. I feel
Speaker 1: like that's my case. Like I'm a passionate water fowler.
Speaker 1: I don't know that I'm particularly talented at it, but
Speaker 1: I've been doing it a long time. Definitely probably spent
Speaker 1: more time in the duck blind than any other pursuit
Speaker 1: that I have. Uh so it's spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time sitting so he Uh but First Light is coming
Speaker 1: out with the waterfowl line, are you kind of like
Speaker 1: in your hair, like yes, finally, dude. Yeah, So it's
Speaker 1: a long long time coming. I mean we've been talking
Speaker 1: about it as far as I know for at least
Speaker 1: eight years. Uh. Waterfowl has always been like the denominator
Speaker 1: in the office that we just haven't gone after even
Speaker 1: though like everybody does it more people we always do
Speaker 1: this kind of nerdy math, but we definitely spend more
Speaker 1: time collectively water fowling across the office and any other
Speaker 1: individual pursuit. So it's always been there, I mean shift,
Speaker 1: I've met Cal well before our first light. So back
Speaker 1: in the day, right like when you used to go
Speaker 1: to your waterfowl zone and put in the boat launch
Speaker 1: and you knew everybody there because people weren't doing it yet,
Speaker 1: and it was like a community. And he knew he
Speaker 1: saw so, and so was rig and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's here, and you knew where he hunted and stuff.
Speaker 1: So my buddy Robbie's out there and I motor up
Speaker 1: to him because I know what blind he's going to
Speaker 1: be in. And this was probably two thousand two, um,
Speaker 1: And I motor up there and Robbie is sitting in
Speaker 1: the blind and he's got this kid with him with
Speaker 1: a big gas video camera and he's like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna make some DVDs or something and
Speaker 1: and this is my friend Ran from Montana. He's out
Speaker 1: here filming and I remember this. I can't remember like
Speaker 1: where my keys are right now, but I remember Cal
Speaker 1: had you know, like the bomber hat on. And I
Speaker 1: mean I don't know exactly how old Cal is. I
Speaker 1: don't think anybody does. But he was like born with
Speaker 1: that mustache, right yeah, Like I think he was twelve,
Speaker 1: and he had a pretty thick room going there. No,
Speaker 1: I just remember this, and um, you know, I think
Speaker 1: I was let's see, roughly twenty two, so Cal was
Speaker 1: approximately you know, he's in high school, was my guess,
Speaker 1: are right around there? Uh, And that's how we met,
Speaker 1: like and then we didn't see each other for whatever
Speaker 1: another eight years or something until I went to First Light. Um,
Speaker 1: and Cal was the only employee at that point. I
Speaker 1: was second employee. So there's always been this like backstory.
Speaker 1: I actually used to waterfowl with Scott, one of the founders,
Speaker 1: and Kent and the other founder well before as the
Speaker 1: first light, before first Light was around, and then we
Speaker 1: started hiring people. And the cool thing about waterfowl is
Speaker 1: as we'd hire people from, whether it was Inner Mountain
Speaker 1: West or Maryland, waterfowl is a denominator, right, like you're
Speaker 1: not speaking the language of white tail versus Western everybody.
Speaker 1: Waterfowl goose hunted duck hunted whatever. Um So point being,
Speaker 1: it's been in our blood for a long time. We've
Speaker 1: talked about it a long time, and yeah, to your question,
Speaker 1: I am definitely really excited to finally get there. I
Speaker 1: feel like we've been penciling at out and noodling on
Speaker 1: it for eight years and we finally get to bring
Speaker 1: it to the table. So pretty excited. Tell people right
Speaker 1: now what tyfa means. Oh boy, that's gonna be one
Speaker 1: of the ones that people like. Yeah, tyfa is a
Speaker 1: great word. Yeah, it's the genus that like cattail belongs to.
Speaker 1: So all of that sort of marshy uh foliage falls
Speaker 1: under that sort of cattle or under that category or genus.
Speaker 1: I guess you buy that helpful finger to clarify, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: has gollish well to clarify, type is the name of
Speaker 1: our new waterfowl pattern. I was good, I was getting there.
Speaker 1: That'll leave that all. Yeah, well sorry, yeah, a salid question,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it kind of encompasses that full marshy atmosphere
Speaker 1: that we developed this pattern to use specifically for. But yeah,
Speaker 1: so decides it being in our DNA. The other thing
Speaker 1: that we are looking at for the last eight years,
Speaker 1: we're like, man, what a lot of people don't know
Speaker 1: unless they happen to have tried it, is that you know,
Speaker 1: our our foundation for our system is Marino. Marino for
Speaker 1: water fowling is the best goddamn thing to every amazing.
Speaker 1: I mean, when you drop your motion decoy wing into
Speaker 1: the water and you've got to go shoulder deep in
Speaker 1: there and you pull your arm out, and you have
Speaker 1: the property Marino that's warm when wet, and then you
Speaker 1: go home and maybe you know you're hanging out and
Speaker 1: you forget to dry it. The fact that Marino doesn't stink,
Speaker 1: it just all comes together and there's properties and all that.
Speaker 1: So that was kind of a no brainer. UM. And
Speaker 1: then we've spent the last several years developing specific fabric
Speaker 1: packages for waterfowl UM and then really dork ing out
Speaker 1: on a lot of the features that would make our
Speaker 1: product UM smarter and more usable and more friendly so
Speaker 1: that you'd use it and you'd be like, man, I
Speaker 1: can't believe nobody's thought about this feature before now, which,
Speaker 1: to be fair and to be transparent, I feel like
Speaker 1: our foul has long been a forgotten category, and particularly
Speaker 1: an apparel. I could say that probably across the board
Speaker 1: relative to let's say Western big game. I mean, you've
Speaker 1: seen so much innovation in there over the last twenty years,
Speaker 1: and for a variety of reasons. A lot of it
Speaker 1: was driven from mountaineering technology that people would bother borrow
Speaker 1: and then apply to that's good man, and you saw that,
Speaker 1: and you know, they always had like mountain hunting gear,
Speaker 1: always had something to chase which was exactly exactly right,
Speaker 1: and it was very easy for folks to say, hey,
Speaker 1: that's working really well in mountaineering, let's apply that hunting,
Speaker 1: figure out how to put a pattern on it, you know,
Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. But for whatever reason, probably
Speaker 1: by virtue of you know, honestly, water fowls a smaller market,
Speaker 1: I think it was neglected for a really long time,
Speaker 1: when in fact it's one of the most like from
Speaker 1: a durability standpoint, it's certainly one of the most demanding
Speaker 1: pursuits that we take place. And I mean people view waiters,
Speaker 1: let's be honest, is disposable like if if you can
Speaker 1: get if you're if you're a core water fowler, and
Speaker 1: you can get a year out of one without having
Speaker 1: to warrante it or repair it. You're pretty psyched. You
Speaker 1: just don't expect water fowlers don't expect things to last.
Speaker 1: And we looked at that as you know, like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, the market was the manufacturers are neglecting that market,
Speaker 1: and we wanted to make stuff that was like brickshit
Speaker 1: house tough, smart, and using the same level of innovation
Speaker 1: that we've seen in the Western big game in White
Speaker 1: Tail over the last you know, ten to twenty years
Speaker 1: and you gotta stay dry. Yeah, you know that's such
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it seems so simple, but to have something
Speaker 1: that's light enough to functionally wear and not too bulky
Speaker 1: and thick to where you can actually still shoulder shotgun
Speaker 1: and be functional while also like you gotta be dry.
Speaker 1: When would when when does your average mug be able
Speaker 1: to go out and be like, oh I can buy it. Well,
Speaker 1: the product will come to we'll get inventory of it
Speaker 1: next summer in probably like June July type time, and
Speaker 1: that's when we'll have available for purchase. In the meantime, uh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna start rolling stuff out, some previews and and
Speaker 1: showing what the individual product looks like between now and
Speaker 1: then and really get into you know, all the stuff
Speaker 1: that we think makes it um the best water voiling
Speaker 1: product in the market. I don't want to, I don't
Speaker 1: want to mess your story, but you also are stumbling
Speaker 1: upon the greatest ice fishing line of apparel, and you
Speaker 1: did point that out. I'm not gonna deg that, Like
Speaker 1: what the what you already calling these is, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: ice fishing another neglected market. There you go, Yeah, well
Speaker 1: I was gonna say that, Like on the pattern front,
Speaker 1: That's probably the thing I'm like, I was most excited
Speaker 1: about when I first got to start screwing around with
Speaker 1: this stuff was that, over and over, the problem I've
Speaker 1: had with products for for years is too dark. Like
Speaker 1: when you're out in the marsh and you look at
Speaker 1: guys from a distance, you typically notice they're a black blob,
Speaker 1: like they are darker than you don't realize how light
Speaker 1: that fall dried right other vegetation is, and you know,
Speaker 1: you that's a thing in waterfowl hunting is like cover
Speaker 1: up any black holes, right and you're blind, Like you
Speaker 1: want grass hanging over the top to cover that like
Speaker 1: black hole in the blind or even on a boat,
Speaker 1: like you don't want a dark motor on the back
Speaker 1: showing so you go put a motor cover on it.
Speaker 1: Like that dark black blob, whether in a field or
Speaker 1: in a marsh, is like always a problem and it's
Speaker 1: always what the birds pick out. And usually camo is
Speaker 1: just too dark and at least for the marsh environment,
Speaker 1: for a cornfield environment, because everyone's always trying to create
Speaker 1: a pattern or a camo that like can ride the
Speaker 1: line right of like oh you can wear this in
Speaker 1: the timber of Arkansas or the buckbrush in Missouri, or
Speaker 1: then a cornfield in South Dakota. It's like, well, because
Speaker 1: they're very different, those are very different environments. And Tyfa
Speaker 1: is light. It's like a light color. Some people would
Speaker 1: um like maybe in the South might think it's too
Speaker 1: dark in their environment, and they might be right. But
Speaker 1: as far as like if you hunt anything grassy, anything marshy,
Speaker 1: anything agriculture at all, like it looks so good and
Speaker 1: it's an area where it's just not a debatable point,
Speaker 1: like it's indisputably benefit camel, Like the right camels indisputably
Speaker 1: beneficial when you're hunting ducks, that's like they see ship.
Speaker 1: If there's anything I noticed this year, like me and
Speaker 1: Janice Rana hunt in Nebraska, and I was he was
Speaker 1: kind of like on the edge of the cat tails,
Speaker 1: a little tucked in, but they were like pretty light,
Speaker 1: thin cat tails. And I was out picking up a
Speaker 1: bird looking back at him eighty yards and I was
Speaker 1: like tickled pink that he was just not he was
Speaker 1: not dark. He was the same. You know, it wasn't
Speaker 1: all blacked out. I'm happy to hear that, because over
Speaker 1: the last handful of years, we probably went through fifteen
Speaker 1: iterations and it kept getting lighter and lighter. You know,
Speaker 1: we'd have people folks like Sean, and we'd have guides
Speaker 1: and all this stuff we secretly showed to them and
Speaker 1: they're like lighter, lighter, lighter, And it landed where it
Speaker 1: did with that recognition that I think people have a tendency,
Speaker 1: to Sean's point, to try and find a happy medium,
Speaker 1: and with waterfowl that doesn't work. I mean, you've got
Speaker 1: to be pretty specific. I think, out of all of
Speaker 1: our pursuits, arguably waterfowl and turkey are probably the most discriminate,
Speaker 1: and so we really tried to make something that was
Speaker 1: intentionally specific to this environment as opposed to something that
Speaker 1: could operate in a multitude of of environments. All right,
Speaker 1: so this has you titilated. Uh, go to the meat
Speaker 1: eater dot com slash waterfowl and sign up and you
Speaker 1: stay abreast of all things water file related at meat
Speaker 1: eater again meat eater dot com slash waterfowl. Here's the
Speaker 1: thing Kren and I were fixing to talk about, but
Speaker 1: we're gonna I'm just gonna do it real quick. The
Speaker 1: spring bear hunt in Washington. We've covered this. Everybody in
Speaker 1: the planet the time about this. Yeah, I don't know, yeah,
Speaker 1: everything mean, North Korea is kind of a black hole, dude, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't really know coming out what's coming out of
Speaker 1: North of Korea on this, but most people in the
Speaker 1: world are talking about this Washington, They're they're spring black
Speaker 1: bear season. So like, on hold, it came down to
Speaker 1: this commission vote, and you know where you think of
Speaker 1: a fishing game commission. You think of a fishing game
Speaker 1: commission as being like people who are like predisposed to
Speaker 1: be supportive of hunting and supportive of use of natural
Speaker 1: responsible use of natural resources. Washington ain't okay. It's like
Speaker 1: they've got their governor and you know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: they've had a lot of like very very left wing
Speaker 1: governors for a very long time that have have packed
Speaker 1: the commission full of people who not only are antagonistic.
Speaker 1: They got people on the commission not only antagonist to hunting,
Speaker 1: but like outspoken criticisms of the North American model of
Speaker 1: wildlife conservation. I mean, they had a freaking zookeeper on
Speaker 1: there who just resigned like a zoo. Like when I
Speaker 1: think of a fishing game commissioner, the last thing that
Speaker 1: pops in my mind as a zookeeper. He's like, well,
Speaker 1: what we like to do is we keep in a locate, right, uh,
Speaker 1: that nothing bad can happen to him. Um, this guy resigned,
Speaker 1: But here's what happened in Washington. Try to do this
Speaker 1: as quickly as possible. They're supposed to have nine commissioners,
Speaker 1: like the Supreme Court. Why do you have nine Supreme
Speaker 1: Court justices in case they don't agree, they all vote,
Speaker 1: and just what happens that you're gonna have like the
Speaker 1: right way? They got eight. I don't know. The government
Speaker 1: want to point the ninth one that the ninth one
Speaker 1: is supposed to come from the east part of the state.
Speaker 1: People in the east part of the eastern part of
Speaker 1: Washington tend to be hunt fish friendly right more culturally
Speaker 1: like that, people from the west part of the state
Speaker 1: tend to tend to be I'm speaking tremendous generalizations here.
Speaker 1: There's a greater likelihood they're gonna be antagonistic too, like
Speaker 1: hunting and the like the Cascade Mountain Range kind of
Speaker 1: split there. Uh, they haven't gotten their commissioners, so they
Speaker 1: got these eight people. They get that. It comes to
Speaker 1: a vote whether they have the spring bear season, and
Speaker 1: it falls like four to four vote and instead of
Speaker 1: it being a tie, and that means the bear hunt
Speaker 1: goes on for whatever reason, it's a tie, but the
Speaker 1: bear hunt doesn't go on. Another commissioner resigns. He resigns
Speaker 1: because he's like in the commissioner doghouse somehow the zookeeper.
Speaker 1: Um he uh. So now they got seven and now
Speaker 1: they've got seven commissioners. They got to get all the
Speaker 1: commissioners appointed and then they got to rehash this thing out.
Speaker 1: The tricky part is the Phishing Game Agency. When the
Speaker 1: biologist from the Fishing Game Agency come forward to like,
Speaker 1: bears are doing great in Washington, UM, very strong population.
Speaker 1: We recommend having the limited draw bear hunt as usual.
Speaker 1: That was their recommendation from a biological perspective, and some
Speaker 1: of these commissioners like, it's social not biological. There's like
Speaker 1: a social antagonism to this, and that's the argument they're
Speaker 1: not even debating anymore, like whether it's a sustainable resource. Uh,
Speaker 1: oddly no, I shouldn't say fortuitously. There's a thing where
Speaker 1: you can let the where they like invite input. Washington's
Speaker 1: Fishing Game Commission invites input. You're not being like a
Speaker 1: weird internet troll like they invite input. There's a thing
Speaker 1: called contact the Phish and Wildlife Commission. Go to my instagram,
Speaker 1: scroll back to December twenty and you'll see a picture
Speaker 1: of me doing a grip and grin with a bear
Speaker 1: in there. There's like a link and it's a link
Speaker 1: to how you give the old what for to the commission.
Speaker 1: It's a fill it's a form you fill out and
Speaker 1: they're like sensitive, they look at the form. They're sensitive.
Speaker 1: They want to hear from people. So if you like
Speaker 1: live in particularly if you live at Washington, if you
Speaker 1: hunt Washington, um let him know how you're feeling about this.
Speaker 1: They got a form for you. So like going to
Speaker 1: like my like bio, go to like at Stephen Ronella
Speaker 1: scroll back to you see a dead bear, go to
Speaker 1: the Lincoln bio and then fill out a thing letting
Speaker 1: the Commission know where are your head's at on the
Speaker 1: bear hunt. Think about all that, Doug. I think that
Speaker 1: it's interesting that we have sort of the opposite um
Speaker 1: at least politically situation in Wisconsin, and that we have
Speaker 1: a natural Resources board that's also wanted by the governor.
Speaker 1: But we have one of the board members whose term
Speaker 1: ended in April of last year, who has refused to
Speaker 1: leave the board until the Senate confirms his replacement, which,
Speaker 1: of course the governor put in nominated right away. And
Speaker 1: it's a uh. He was appointed by our previous governor
Speaker 1: who happened to be a Republican, and our current governor
Speaker 1: as a Democrat, and our Senate is controlled by the Republicans,
Speaker 1: so they're just essentially this guy says, well, I'm not
Speaker 1: leaving the board until there's until the new nominee is
Speaker 1: uh confirmed, but they and they won't confirm them. So
Speaker 1: we have this squatter. It's I mean, and it has
Speaker 1: has a huge effect. You think these guys are all
Speaker 1: talking together to make a plan. Oh without a doubt,
Speaker 1: without a doubt. UM. Durkin has written about it extensively. UM.
Speaker 1: And it is affecting UM well, our wolf management, UM,
Speaker 1: it's affecting our deer management UM. And it's just to me,
Speaker 1: it's in both of these cases. It's UH. It's unsettling
Speaker 1: that politics are playing such a heavy role in how
Speaker 1: our natural resources are managed. You're talking about the North
Speaker 1: American model of conservation, science based management UM in Wisconsin
Speaker 1: UM is also being ignored, but it's being ignored by
Speaker 1: the other side because there's a contingent who wants to
Speaker 1: have you know, early, let's have wolf's wolf hunts early
Speaker 1: and often. And the d n R is saying a
Speaker 1: different thing about wolves, not that we shouldn't have wolf hunt,
Speaker 1: not that we shouldn't be managing or anything like that,
Speaker 1: but UM, but but that we we need to have
Speaker 1: a better plan. And and you know this UH law
Speaker 1: was passed again by the legislature and signed by the
Speaker 1: previous governor that says, if there's a wolf hunting is allowed,
Speaker 1: we need to have a wolf hunt during this period
Speaker 1: of time. So last year we rushed one and I
Speaker 1: think you guys talked about the ship show that our
Speaker 1: wolf hunt became and it was because of this rushing
Speaker 1: um forward. Um, I don't have the answer for I
Speaker 1: don't and I'm not in wolf country and I don't
Speaker 1: apply for a wolf tag just because it's not something
Speaker 1: that I'm um uh particularly interested in hunting. But I
Speaker 1: certainly agree that they should be hunted um and managed.
Speaker 1: But how that's done is so important, and um, I'm
Speaker 1: running quite honestly, as we talked about chronic wasting disease
Speaker 1: and endured management, we're running the same thing there. So
Speaker 1: it's interesting that we have the same problem in two states,
Speaker 1: but they seem to be coming from different political standpoints.
Speaker 1: And that's that's why, that's why I'm a proponent of
Speaker 1: creating a third political party. Well, I'm with you, When
Speaker 1: or when are we going to do that? Right now?
Speaker 1: That's happening. Yeah, I think it's just I think it's
Speaker 1: just rehashed Roosevelt's bull Moose Party. I like it. I
Speaker 1: like it a lot. That's a good idea. Halflefinger take
Speaker 1: this one on for me, Jim, which is that it's
Speaker 1: called health Finger's people know what I'm talking about. You
Speaker 1: have an unusual last name, that's true, But Jim halflefinger.
Speaker 1: Take this one on for me. The theory that this
Speaker 1: is a fan favorite. Rattlesnakes don't rattle anymore because people
Speaker 1: killed all the ones at rattle. Yeah, that's a that's
Speaker 1: a common thing people see that general. No, No, you
Speaker 1: never heard that. I mean I've heard that. You've heard
Speaker 1: I've heard it. Yeah, I don't spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time thinking about it. Cal float Cal floated this one right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was inspired by his dog and like about killed
Speaker 1: by rattlesnake, the bit it at the base of the ear.
Speaker 1: I actually had. I got a brand new a little
Speaker 1: yellow lap puppy and we had to run in with
Speaker 1: a venomous creature. But two days after she was home
Speaker 1: as an eight week old puppy. She was molding something
Speaker 1: and I came up and I said, what's drop it?
Speaker 1: What he got there? And she flicks off of her tongue.
Speaker 1: Black widdle, A big black widow spider pops out on
Speaker 1: the ground and it wasn't moving, but it was fresh.
Speaker 1: She had picked it up and killed it. Did you
Speaker 1: get her? No? We washed her and somehow she did
Speaker 1: not get bit. So yellow lab seemed to have a
Speaker 1: propensity to get into venomous creatures. But but we did
Speaker 1: talk about the you talked about the snake selection thing
Speaker 1: about killing rattling rattle snakes, but we can just recap
Speaker 1: it basically, in order for something like that, you're talking
Speaker 1: about forcing evolution, kind of an artificial evolution, where you
Speaker 1: select these animals that have a higher propensity to rat rattle,
Speaker 1: animals that are quick to rattle, a little more sensitive
Speaker 1: to rattle. And so you first of all have to
Speaker 1: have snakes have to have that being genetically programmed. So
Speaker 1: you have to have some snakes that they get this
Speaker 1: gene from their parents that they're a little more sensitive
Speaker 1: to rattle. You have to have that kind of genetic
Speaker 1: connection or you can't make any kind of genetic changes
Speaker 1: by selecting some or not selecting others. And so we
Speaker 1: don't really know whether there's some genetic sensitivity to rattle
Speaker 1: gene or not. But even if we assume there is,
Speaker 1: then you've got to have people out there affecting a
Speaker 1: majority of the population, taking a high proportion a disproportionate
Speaker 1: number of these animals that are there are more sensitive
Speaker 1: to rattle and something comes near him. So you've got
Speaker 1: to have this selection to select those up disproportionately, and
Speaker 1: you've got over the top of this, you've got all
Speaker 1: of these other environmental factors that have something to do
Speaker 1: have a lot to do with whether rattles take rattles
Speaker 1: or not. You know, what's the ambient temperature. If it's
Speaker 1: really cold, they're probably not gonna rattle, if it's if
Speaker 1: it's really warm, they'll be a little quicker to rattle.
Speaker 1: Maybe how how close you got to them, how big
Speaker 1: and imposing you look. Maybe this rattles nake got almost
Speaker 1: stepped on by a cow three times in the weekend.
Speaker 1: He just piste off because here's someone else walking at him.
Speaker 1: You know, what's your trajectory towards him, Whether he feels
Speaker 1: like he's well hidden. All of that stuff has a
Speaker 1: lot to do with how threatened the snake feels and
Speaker 1: whether it's gonna rattle or not. And some idea that
Speaker 1: it has some genetic component from its parents about whether
Speaker 1: sensitive to rattle or not. Um just doesn't make a
Speaker 1: lot of sense. There's too many other environmental factors that
Speaker 1: are coming into play for any kind of wide scale
Speaker 1: selection to actually change how quickly rattlesnakes rattle. In the
Speaker 1: one thing you pointed out too, and I think I
Speaker 1: mentioned this is Um, when you look at people who
Speaker 1: do large scale rattlesnake killing, they're not walking around listening
Speaker 1: for rattles. Yeah, they're not walking around, and then some
Speaker 1: really sensitive rattlesnake rattles and then they go kill that.
Speaker 1: So that's what you would need for that kind of selection.
Speaker 1: They're going in and going into dens, and they're they're
Speaker 1: doing all kinds of others, sometimes destructive things to get
Speaker 1: rattlesnakes out, but it has nothing to do with how
Speaker 1: sensitive that snake is to rattle or not. So you
Speaker 1: can't you can't exert that kind of selection, even in
Speaker 1: those really intensive rattlesnake round up kind of situations. So
Speaker 1: next time someone says that, you say, shut up, that's
Speaker 1: what I should have just said. As a public biologist
Speaker 1: says generally what I use on the all Right, we're
Speaker 1: gonna hit a bunch of uh, we're gonna get a
Speaker 1: bunch of deer stuff with uh with with Jim and Dug,
Speaker 1: and I'll point out that you know, Gym's from Arizona,
Speaker 1: Dugs in Wisconsin. Um, but they both are like very
Speaker 1: on top of the deer situation. So there's these two
Speaker 1: aren't like uh coming from but not like they don't
Speaker 1: work together, different necks of the woods, all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. But in my mind I was bracketted. I
Speaker 1: wanted them to come on together because they're the people
Speaker 1: that I email with the most about deer and often
Speaker 1: quite different things about deer. But we're gonna cover little ground.
Speaker 1: Who wants to Oh, let me hit you with this one,
Speaker 1: because we're gonna talk about COVID. Really, I don't want
Speaker 1: to spend a ton time in COVID and deer, all
Speaker 1: this stuff about I want to get your opinion on it.
Speaker 1: A lot of stuff about deer and COVID. Hoh to me,
Speaker 1: it just seems like such a I don't know, Okay,
Speaker 1: how much on the sliding scale of into ten each
Speaker 1: of you, Jim and Doug, on a sliding scale one
Speaker 1: to ten, how much do you agree with this statement,
Speaker 1: the dear COVID thing. This is me talking the dear
Speaker 1: COVID thing is a non issue. What is ten? What
Speaker 1: is one? In ten? On the scale? One is um
Speaker 1: strong disagreement, Ten is strong agreement. I would probably fall
Speaker 1: into seven. Doug. I'm confused as to what the scale
Speaker 1: is again, Yeah, okay, because I'm guessing Jim and I
Speaker 1: agree about that. I say the COVID dear thing. I
Speaker 1: feel like the COVID dear thing is a non issue.
Speaker 1: Strongly disagree is the one. Strongly agree is a ten?
Speaker 1: Is that what you the way you went at Yeah,
Speaker 1: I went I went closer to ten. I mostly agree
Speaker 1: with that. I think it's something that's just being that's
Speaker 1: being blown out because it's kind of a popular thing
Speaker 1: that gets a lot of clicks click bait. But but
Speaker 1: there is there is an element that we should not
Speaker 1: completely dismiss it. That's right, that's right, and that's yeah.
Speaker 1: So it's hard for me to put uh, so I'll
Speaker 1: go with like a five because it's noncommittal, right like
Speaker 1: you guys like dear COVID tweakers And here's why and
Speaker 1: here's why. Um, at least from what I learned, and
Speaker 1: Jim and I have some folks that we talked to
Speaker 1: in common about it, and as you guys have them overlap. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we know some of the same people talking to some
Speaker 1: of the same wildlife people. UM that it is a
Speaker 1: reservoir and if one of the things that it it does,
Speaker 1: is that it sort of tells me that, uh and
Speaker 1: maybe tells the conclusion that I came to talking with
Speaker 1: various people is that's so it's there, And so covid um,
Speaker 1: like chronic wasting disease, is something that we're going to
Speaker 1: have to live with understanding. But I think they found
Speaker 1: it in seventy animal species. Don't love it's that many?
Speaker 1: Do you say seventies? Somebody google that ship talking. You
Speaker 1: can't talk how many animal species that they found covid in.
Speaker 1: I mean tigers, lions, minx um, bogs. And here's my
Speaker 1: take on here. I'm gonna tell you this, and I
Speaker 1: want to I'm gonna preface this by saying I'm not
Speaker 1: a health professional. Let me do that. I just think
Speaker 1: that it's like hesitate even say this because people getting
Speaker 1: all kinds of trouble for saying and stuff like this.
Speaker 1: I don't think we're getting out of this one. I
Speaker 1: think it's the new norm. I think it's the new norm.
Speaker 1: So let me go there a director there, I agree.
Speaker 1: I do think it is. I think it's uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's another example of zoonic disease that we have to
Speaker 1: pay attention to. But UM, you know, it's sort of
Speaker 1: like um with COVID. I mean we're you know, as
Speaker 1: we were flushing the toilets with our feet and all
Speaker 1: this other stuff, and I mean just after after a while,
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, I want to get on with my life.
Speaker 1: Thanks for the information. I will take the precautions that
Speaker 1: I think are necessary. Um, I'll talk to professionals about
Speaker 1: it and make my decisions from there. But I'm getting
Speaker 1: on in my life. Yeah. What worries of wildlife health
Speaker 1: professionals is that make domestic mink caught it from their
Speaker 1: keepers from humans. So mink caught it from humans. Um,
Speaker 1: there's evidence that the virus circulated for a couple of
Speaker 1: months in the mink population mutated a little bit like
Speaker 1: it does, And there was a human that had COVID
Speaker 1: nineteen and it had one of the strains that had
Speaker 1: mutated in the mink population, and it had infected the
Speaker 1: human and the human got COVID. So it's some people
Speaker 1: are worried that with a huge reservoir like deer, it
Speaker 1: could mutate into such a form that would be no
Speaker 1: more virulent if it went back into humans. There's no
Speaker 1: evidence that COVID has ever jumped from deer back into
Speaker 1: human There's no evidence that the deer has ever been
Speaker 1: phased by it. There's no evidence that the deer has
Speaker 1: ever had That's one thing that's important too. The virus
Speaker 1: is called sarros Kobe two. The virus that causes COVID nineteen.
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen is the disease, and sarros Kobe two is
Speaker 1: the virus. So deer have been shown to have been
Speaker 1: exposed to the virus, and they've elevated antibody showing they're
Speaker 1: exposed to it. No deer has ever been documented to
Speaker 1: actually have any kind of sickness, to actually have the
Speaker 1: COVID ninteen sickness. I feel like I'm being a little glib,
Speaker 1: so I want to I want to articulate my perspective
Speaker 1: a little bit more thoroughly. Uh. I don't think we're
Speaker 1: I don't think we're gonna defeat COVID. I don't think
Speaker 1: we're gonna constrain it. I don't think we're gonna limit
Speaker 1: any of the spreads of any of the variants. I
Speaker 1: think that it's gonna be We're gonna have new variants
Speaker 1: coming out of the human population all the time in
Speaker 1: a couple of years. I think we're gonna look at
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff we did and we'll be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe we delayed something, but probably not, or maybe maybe
Speaker 1: we delayed something. That's just the reality now. And it
Speaker 1: gave us a minute to get boned up on medications
Speaker 1: and stuff. But it's circulating in a bunch of animals.
Speaker 1: It's circulating in a bunch of people across five or
Speaker 1: what what six continents. Um. I don't think that it's
Speaker 1: like a ship now, dear, got it. This will never end,
Speaker 1: Like I just I feel it's like a I feel
Speaker 1: it's a non factor. But we got a nice letter
Speaker 1: from a funeral director and he was pointing out and
Speaker 1: he's like he's like, hey, if you deer listen, I've
Speaker 1: been dealing So there's like a lot of information out
Speaker 1: there for people that are deer hunt. Now they're like
Speaker 1: when you go when you go to got a deer,
Speaker 1: you gotta have your LATEX clubs, you got have a knife. Well,
Speaker 1: now they're like, you gotta have your COVID mask. This
Speaker 1: guy wrote in says, listen, I've been dealing with COVID
Speaker 1: deceased people and here's what we do, and we have
Speaker 1: a hundred success success rate and staying healthy. He admits
Speaker 1: processing a deer is not the same as processing the human,
Speaker 1: but these tips could still be used. He suggests this
Speaker 1: when butchering in the field. I don't don't think they
Speaker 1: used that word in the funeral when butchering in the field.
Speaker 1: When my father died. My father died late at night,
Speaker 1: and um, I was the last person. I watched him
Speaker 1: take his last breath. And I remember the funeral people
Speaker 1: quickly showed up. And they showed up, um in their
Speaker 1: suits and the long black wool coats, and they were
Speaker 1: there fast, say yeah, my dad died. It was very
Speaker 1: very like Danny. Guys got here quick, dressed up like that.
Speaker 1: He's just like land in bed with that stuff on.
Speaker 1: Uh what was I getting at? Oh? Moved to it,
Speaker 1: he says. He. Here's the here's what morticians are doing
Speaker 1: around COVID deceased. When butchering in the field. Moved to
Speaker 1: an open area with lots of air circulation. Stand up
Speaker 1: wind of the deer. Do not compress the chest of
Speaker 1: the animal. When rolling the animal over, stand away from
Speaker 1: the head, tape the mouth closed and plugged the nostrils,
Speaker 1: starts paying the pit you're doing it, always wear gloves
Speaker 1: in a mask. Here's a tip. When we removing the lungs,
Speaker 1: do not squeeze. Bury them once removed. After field dressing
Speaker 1: his complete place the deer in cold, isolated storage for
Speaker 1: forty eight hours before continuing on. I've had no experience
Speaker 1: consuming an animal of this state. That's good to hear.
Speaker 1: I would consult further experts on this topic. So there
Speaker 1: you have it from a real pro. I love it.
Speaker 1: Here's can I give you no go ahead? Doug? I
Speaker 1: was just gonna say, I gotta thank this guy for
Speaker 1: writing this because it's like, how are you gonna make
Speaker 1: this ship sound interesting? Man? And that does? It really does.
Speaker 1: Oh listen, man, we got like the best audience in
Speaker 1: the world. We get great, great photos, great feedback. Someone
Speaker 1: go ahead. The other thing, thank you. The other thing
Speaker 1: I would say is um as a lot of folks know,
Speaker 1: I have a CDB detesting kiosk on our far more
Speaker 1: people drop off carried away by a tornado, got tipped
Speaker 1: by the tornado, get carried away. It's only a few
Speaker 1: yards down the field, but Doug's out to own his
Speaker 1: wife's a picture of his upside down kiosk off. It's
Speaker 1: like I leave and ship happens um uh. And in
Speaker 1: our kiosk um I opened up um I have as
Speaker 1: I have to open up bags and make sure the
Speaker 1: PaperWorks right and stuff. And several of the deer they
Speaker 1: all came from the same place that the moms were
Speaker 1: tape shot on him. And I was like, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: I hadn't. I hadn't. I hadn't read that as a recommendation,
Speaker 1: and I didn't notice that there was anything plugging the nostrils.
Speaker 1: But they did have notes on the like this is
Speaker 1: Shawn's buck or you know, Joe's dough or whatever, So
Speaker 1: maybe that was why they did it. I know the guy,
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna have to ask him about it. I'm
Speaker 1: only mentioned in this somehow. My wife has these little
Speaker 1: snowmen Christmas ornaments that are made out of tamps come.
Speaker 1: So my boys are like, what is that? It sounds
Speaker 1: like a Karan Art project. My wife gives him the
Speaker 1: full gives my boys the full rundown, you know, for
Speaker 1: like what that's all about. And then, uh, either way,
Speaker 1: that'd be a great nostril plug, perfect size, right, maybe
Speaker 1: a little big for some carry those people comeback carry
Speaker 1: tampons a lot for bullet bullet wounds, pass through bullet
Speaker 1: wounds through an arm, and they shove a tampon through it. Yea.
Speaker 1: And if the pandemic ends, makes snowman out of him.
Speaker 1: That's like a thing in wrestling, is like wrestlers go
Speaker 1: get bloody noses and shove tamp Remember the movie Strange
Speaker 1: Brew He gets a bloody nose and court and the
Speaker 1: bailiff gives him a bullet to plug his nose with.
Speaker 1: Then someone cracks a joke and the bullet flies out
Speaker 1: and goes off. It's a good movie. Here here a
Speaker 1: listener wrote in about this, This guy's kind of licking
Speaker 1: his lips at this whole COVID thing because he's like, man,
Speaker 1: if dear lose their sense of smell hunting, it's good change.
Speaker 1: You're gonna change the whole game. Man, I'm going to
Speaker 1: change the whole game. That's a good point, all right.
Speaker 1: P f A S and dear, What the hell is
Speaker 1: the p f A? P f A. This is an
Speaker 1: emerging thing that that I didn't know much about until
Speaker 1: I started looking into it. But they're just chemicals that
Speaker 1: don't degrade. They kind of accumulate in the environment forever chemicals, right,
Speaker 1: they like a little little little sort of like public
Speaker 1: what the hell, what the hell? How did I describe it?
Speaker 1: It's kind of the the gnome do you were? That's
Speaker 1: not rute acute name, Yeah, because something you find in
Speaker 1: the media all the time, because they like to pick those.
Speaker 1: But they came around the nineteen fifties and they put
Speaker 1: them in flame retardant stuff and water um water resistant,
Speaker 1: um chemicals, all kinds of plastics, probably Clark Riswold's nonnutritive
Speaker 1: cereal garners and those kind of things. But it's ubiquitous
Speaker 1: in the environment. And and now they're starting to find
Speaker 1: out that they don't degrade until they're they're accumulating, and
Speaker 1: tissues are accumulating and detected and blood. And so we
Speaker 1: had had the one report in Maine this year of
Speaker 1: the local municipality advising people not to eat deer from
Speaker 1: this one local specific that was coming from a local municipality. Yeah,
Speaker 1: not to eat deer either, and so um so we um.
Speaker 1: Brian Richards sent me a link from a year ago
Speaker 1: that was in Marinette, Michigan. Marinette Michigan, Marionett, Wisconsin right
Speaker 1: on the side um. And that was a year ago,
Speaker 1: and they were they were advising people not to eat
Speaker 1: the livers of deer. So they were saying that in
Speaker 1: the heart tissue and the muscle tissue um the levels
Speaker 1: were undetectable or very low and not a problem. But
Speaker 1: in the livers because the livers and the kidneys are
Speaker 1: organs that that filter the blood and they filtered toxics,
Speaker 1: toxins out of the blood, and so it was accumulating
Speaker 1: in the liver and they're telling people not to eat
Speaker 1: the liver. So what were they seeing? Do you know,
Speaker 1: because a handful of people from Maine sent us this
Speaker 1: this this warning that came out, what were they looking at?
Speaker 1: Do you know, like what were they seeing specifically? Were
Speaker 1: they seeing were they actually seeing like really elevated counts
Speaker 1: in venice theoretical? Yeah, I don't know the specifics, whether
Speaker 1: they like like a year previous in Wisconsin where they
Speaker 1: tested heart tissue, muscle tissue, and liver tissue and found
Speaker 1: that there are different levels in the main situation. I
Speaker 1: don't know what they tested and when, what was sparking
Speaker 1: their concern, Whether it was just in the blood or
Speaker 1: the muscles. Do you feel that? Uh, guess something to say.
Speaker 1: But the difference is in Maine they're saying don't eat
Speaker 1: the meat, don't eat the deer out of a very specific,
Speaker 1: very specific area. In Wisconsin it was and they actually
Speaker 1: they specifically said don't worry about eating heart tissue and
Speaker 1: muscle tissue in Wisconsin. That I clarified earlier that I'm
Speaker 1: not a health care professional. Yeah, nor am I. I
Speaker 1: would like to clarify that. I would. I have a
Speaker 1: way that I assess things, and I go like, would
Speaker 1: I really die from this? Like? Will this be the
Speaker 1: thing I die from? And this is not to advise anyone,
Speaker 1: but I just put in that situation, I'll probably like, man,
Speaker 1: am I really gonna like? Is this gonna be the
Speaker 1: thing that kills me? Eating this deer? And I'd be like,
Speaker 1: in my mind, I would be like, that's not gonna
Speaker 1: do it. Yeah, this is gonna be heart disease. Those
Speaker 1: p F phase and I've heard them called p fast.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's what the cool kids use
Speaker 1: or if that's just what one person was using incorrectly,
Speaker 1: but they've been linked to higher cholesterol. They've been linked
Speaker 1: to kidney testicular cancer, been linked to lower birth weight,
Speaker 1: changes in liver enzymes, UM, high blood pressure, and in
Speaker 1: children a decrease reaction to vaccinations in getting their endi
Speaker 1: body levels up. So there's some medical connections with UM
Speaker 1: having these high levels of that in the blood. Most
Speaker 1: of those studies that were done in areas that where
Speaker 1: the people had really high levels, not just kind of
Speaker 1: baseline levels, but also the CDC and some other sources
Speaker 1: say of people in the United States have measurable p
Speaker 1: f P fast out of the gate in their blood.
Speaker 1: Just an environmental level. But if you look at this
Speaker 1: area in Maine, are they advising don't don't eat vegetables
Speaker 1: from vegetable gardens in this area? Are they advising or
Speaker 1: does that not work that way? Are they advising don't
Speaker 1: eat livestock products from this area? I haven't heard that,
Speaker 1: but yeah, that's interesting. I'm not sure, but UM, I
Speaker 1: know this specific area in Maine. Um it was Fairfield
Speaker 1: was once used in a pulp paper manufacturing uh and yep,
Speaker 1: and the bioats was spread on farm fields for years.
Speaker 1: So I don't I haven't seen anything else to UM,
Speaker 1: I guess prove what this person has said. But he
Speaker 1: said that the kind of word on the street is
Speaker 1: at local dairy farmers. Look at that right now. Wow, man,
Speaker 1: this is one of the guys that Roller needs his man.
Speaker 1: Their family has been hunting, he said his for forty years.
Speaker 1: They've been hunting. The property smack dab in the middle
Speaker 1: of this zone if you look at it like a
Speaker 1: county map falls in Fairfield. He's one of his. Really
Speaker 1: safety I hate to give it, yeah, I don't want
Speaker 1: to give advice, man, but you know, I remember one
Speaker 1: time I had a garden and I just for I
Speaker 1: wanted to send a soil sample into a unit the
Speaker 1: local like you know, you have the land grant universities
Speaker 1: that have like an egg extension thing, and they came
Speaker 1: back with very high elevated levels of lead in the
Speaker 1: garden soil, right and like really high. I remember one
Speaker 1: was like X was high or something already. And um,
Speaker 1: I pondered that for a day or two and then
Speaker 1: went on a garden is that for you? Is that
Speaker 1: from your shooting raccoons in the garden leads? No, you
Speaker 1: know what. I was curious how that happened? And uh,
Speaker 1: and I spoke to Coup people and they're saying that,
Speaker 1: um that they the thing they were looking at most
Speaker 1: there was the years of leaded gasoline. So being in
Speaker 1: a you know, being an area just close proximity to
Speaker 1: where there was a lot of a lot of combustion
Speaker 1: of leaded gas and for a lot of the yeah,
Speaker 1: it falls out of that exhaust. And you might have
Speaker 1: an area where I don't know, man, or you like
Speaker 1: idole detractor, Your people are idoling their tractor for seventy
Speaker 1: years outside the whatever barn you could have like uh
Speaker 1: from the years of letted gas. Like I said, Man,
Speaker 1: it like shook me up, and that just kind of
Speaker 1: went on the My needer reaction is to not worry
Speaker 1: about the p fest But but disease professionals will tell
Speaker 1: you if if your missalities issuing a don't eat kind
Speaker 1: of advisory, you probably would be smart to follow up.
Speaker 1: Where my brain goes with that is like the every
Speaker 1: boat ramp having a mercury advisory. You know, like that's
Speaker 1: commonplace everywhere is mercury advisors don't eat too much fish.
Speaker 1: But I don't personally know anyone that's ever ran into
Speaker 1: mercury poisoning problem. I tell you, funny story about man.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, do you has something to say? Though? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the thing that can serns me. And if someone who's
Speaker 1: in that area with right in, I'd like to follow
Speaker 1: up this. Being a kid who grew up with a
Speaker 1: dairy farm, he said that the word is the local
Speaker 1: dairy farmers have killed off their stock as well. And
Speaker 1: my question is one, did that happen? Our questions are one,
Speaker 1: did that happen? And too? If so, why because in
Speaker 1: um in the livestock world, if there's a disease issue
Speaker 1: and they're a handful of them, that the Department of
Speaker 1: Bagga culture requires you to destroy your hurt. And I'm
Speaker 1: wondering if this was something that was required or if
Speaker 1: they're just saying it was a mess or I can't
Speaker 1: imagine if it's true or not. Well, right, that's what
Speaker 1: I'm asking. Is it true? If so? You know so,
Speaker 1: skepticism is the chastity. I'm with you, Uh you so?
Speaker 1: My dad when my dad's main fishing buddies when I
Speaker 1: was a kid, as his dude Ron and Ron was
Speaker 1: also a commercial bait fisherman, so he made his living
Speaker 1: catching live bait and selling live He had his own
Speaker 1: bait shop, but then he distributed live bait to other
Speaker 1: bait shops, and the dude fished all the time and
Speaker 1: lived off fish, lived off freshwater fish. And they were
Speaker 1: scouring around the University of Michigan was scouring around for
Speaker 1: old dudes like him that have been eating fish their
Speaker 1: whole life out of the Great Lakes, and they would
Speaker 1: send him and he would periodically go down to University
Speaker 1: of Michigan to do these mercury tests, and part of
Speaker 1: it would be these memory quizzes, and they'd say to
Speaker 1: him like, Okay, you gotta go to the grocery store
Speaker 1: and get you know, milk, eggs, bread, black pepper, olive oil,
Speaker 1: and lettuce. And then he had to sit there for
Speaker 1: a minute and they'd say what do I get the
Speaker 1: grocery store? And in describing these tests to me, he
Speaker 1: said to me, uh, man, I wouldn't have been able
Speaker 1: to remember that if I never ate fish at all.
Speaker 1: Uh uh. We had another thing, cad mealman liver. I
Speaker 1: don't know, like I'm not downplaying cadmium the liver. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm just you guys want to talk more
Speaker 1: about stuff that's hiding deer, Not really, I mean cadmium
Speaker 1: can cause some some health issues. It's probably a local
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's probably a local thing, and you
Speaker 1: could probably find a lot of these little situations where
Speaker 1: there's some kind of contamination and it gets concentrated in
Speaker 1: the liver. New Hampshire Fishing Game advises against eating deer
Speaker 1: liver because of p fast. Same thing we just talked
Speaker 1: about and cadmium. M All right, here's a neard disease.
Speaker 1: And we've covered this a little bit, but just why
Speaker 1: I get get a little um. I got a question
Speaker 1: for each of you around the h D um episodic
Speaker 1: hemorrhagic disease. E h D seems to be like I've
Speaker 1: never heard any suggestion that there's any effect on humans,
Speaker 1: but it's now damn effective on deer. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: you can have an e h D outbreak that you're
Speaker 1: you're commonly here of fifty sevent five percent of a
Speaker 1: deer herd getting carried off by e h D. Uh.
Speaker 1: We had had a we were having a discussion about
Speaker 1: HD recently and someone mentioned that it's that it's always
Speaker 1: fatal deer and and got some feedback that's in fact
Speaker 1: not the case. So go ahead and talk about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they may have been thinking about CWD, which we talked
Speaker 1: about is always fatal. But e h D actually a
Speaker 1: large percentage of the deer population survives the h D
Speaker 1: every year, even when you get those big die offs
Speaker 1: like that. But the ones that survived get antibody levels
Speaker 1: and that makes them immune to it for a year
Speaker 1: or two, so you generally don't get e h D
Speaker 1: die offs in consecutive years. You'll get up, you'll get
Speaker 1: it like especially a dry summer, a real drought summer,
Speaker 1: and you'll get a really bad h D year, and
Speaker 1: you'll you'll lose a lot of them in late summer,
Speaker 1: and then the next year, all the ones that survived
Speaker 1: have antibody levels and so the next year you won't
Speaker 1: have any HD problem no matter what, because they're all
Speaker 1: pretty well protected with with the immunity to that. Here's this,
Speaker 1: This seems like a paradox. Maybe you explained us to
Speaker 1: me e h D. This isn't the paradox. But this
Speaker 1: I'll get to the paradox a minute, Like e h
Speaker 1: D is spread from deer to dear by a biting
Speaker 1: midge ka like a bite the same way you might
Speaker 1: get humans might get malaria, right, like mosquito goes to
Speaker 1: one person and they move and infectious is not animal animal.
Speaker 1: But from that person to the next, why is drought bad?
Speaker 1: It seems like wet year would make more midge because
Speaker 1: it's like an aquatic thing, Like a wet year would
Speaker 1: make more midges out on the landscape. And then some
Speaker 1: people say, well, it's because it concentrates. I think that's it.
Speaker 1: That's what I've always heard. It's the concentration you have.
Speaker 1: You have fewer water sources, you probably have fewer midges,
Speaker 1: but you have all of the deer and all of
Speaker 1: images all in the same location, and you can get
Speaker 1: that circulation, that concentration. Now, what what I had always
Speaker 1: heard is that the like real enemy pursuit guy, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the real enemy of deer hunters when it comes to the
Speaker 1: the h d S if you have a very wet
Speaker 1: year followed by a very dry year, because what really
Speaker 1: like gives it was midgies home and and boost their
Speaker 1: populations and makes white tail come in contact with them
Speaker 1: his long mud lines. So if you have like a
Speaker 1: super wet spring or a super wet and then a
Speaker 1: super dry summer or a super dry that's when you
Speaker 1: get these long mud lines where you get a lot
Speaker 1: of those biting midges at Yeah, they we found in Arizona.
Speaker 1: Actually they've documented that those little midges kulicity is very
Speaker 1: pennis can actually reproduce in the wetness of cactus a
Speaker 1: little bit of moisture like that. Let me hate you
Speaker 1: with this one. I have a question for Jim, and
Speaker 1: that is um is it seems as though e h
Speaker 1: D has been more of a southern Yeah, issue one,
Speaker 1: but and now it's it's it's more northern Great Plains. Yeah. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: and I mean it's reported um anecdotally by hunters in Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: But um uh, But but but why is that? Why
Speaker 1: is there cut off? Just I mean with the with
Speaker 1: the midge. I think it's I think it's a climate
Speaker 1: factor with with midges, and just where midge populations are,
Speaker 1: those kind of midge populations are, and you get too
Speaker 1: far north and you just don't have those kind of
Speaker 1: vector populations. And there they did Mississippi State University one
Speaker 1: time brought deer from Michigan down to Mississippi and they
Speaker 1: actually brought Mississippi deer and putting in depends in Michigan,
Speaker 1: and they found that the northern deer brought down to
Speaker 1: Mississippi had a very high mortality rate from information because
Speaker 1: northern deer didn't have antibodies or previous exposure at least
Speaker 1: two those strains. And there's two different types of h D.
Speaker 1: And there's about seven different zero types of blue tongue virus,
Speaker 1: which is another closely related emorrhagic disease. But when people
Speaker 1: know the blue tongue and e h D synonymously, that's
Speaker 1: not correct. That's not correct. Their different diseases. They just
Speaker 1: have kind of the same clinical symptoms. They're both emorrhagic diseases.
Speaker 1: They both spread by midges. Yes, and then the blue
Speaker 1: tongue is normally kind of a sheep pronghorn, antelope or
Speaker 1: should I just say antelope. We got one, I would
Speaker 1: go American something that was mad with I've switched. I've
Speaker 1: switched to prom I didn't get that worked up about
Speaker 1: the States fish and Game regulations have not they have.
Speaker 1: We have the Arizona Antelope Foundation. But the blue tongue
Speaker 1: is kind of an antelope cheap thing, and the e
Speaker 1: h D is more of a deer cow thing. For
Speaker 1: some reason, it separates that way. I got a question
Speaker 1: talk about one more thing on e h D. This
Speaker 1: person's game where someone wrote in their game ward and
Speaker 1: was saying that deformed hooves. You buy that. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: the hooves. When they get the h D and survive it,
Speaker 1: their hooves will slough off and they'll have a crack
Speaker 1: a line across those hoops. So you can in the
Speaker 1: fall just look at hunter harvested deer that comes through
Speaker 1: and you'll see some like stress lines and cracks on
Speaker 1: the hooves, and that's evidence that they had. Another interesting
Speaker 1: thing is too, is the hemorrhagic disease causes the hemorrhaging
Speaker 1: of all the tissues, including the testicles, and the bucks
Speaker 1: that have a lot of hemorrhaging and the testicles during
Speaker 1: the antler development period can produce cactus bucks. So so
Speaker 1: there's a veterinarian Karen Fox, who led some research that
Speaker 1: that documented not but what very clear that e h
Speaker 1: D was producing some cactus bucks. And everything he brings
Speaker 1: is great. You like Jim, he just liked my testical stories. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this guy says too. When he had a dough they
Speaker 1: had the different He sent a picture of the deformed
Speaker 1: hops with that crack in a curvature to him. He said,
Speaker 1: when I processed her, the meat was very dark and
Speaker 1: had a foul odor. Yeah, I read that. That's unusual.
Speaker 1: If the animals like viremic and hemorrhaging, I can absolutely see.
Speaker 1: But if it's an animal that survived, maybe it just
Speaker 1: still had some of those lingering effects of all that hemorrhaging.
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, um, he brought up a thing.
Speaker 1: You know, you hear people say the dogs wouldn't even
Speaker 1: eat it. You know what was interesting is I was
Speaker 1: cleaning a coyote skull. I'd snared the coyote and was
Speaker 1: cleaning the skull up the other day. And usually when
Speaker 1: I do that, like with that clean beaver skulls or
Speaker 1: muskrat skulls, whatever, my dog like she knows the minute
Speaker 1: she can smell that simmer and pot like she knows
Speaker 1: what's coming. She would not eat that. Uh, you're gonna
Speaker 1: think I'm crazy, And I'll tell you this. She would
Speaker 1: not eat that Kylee head pickings. Okay, but it's sat
Speaker 1: in her bowl long enough. I'm not. I got eyewitnesses
Speaker 1: she ate. She drank the broth, but wouldn't eat the chunks,
Speaker 1: but she drank the broth out of the bowl and
Speaker 1: I'm not kidney man. Five minutes later, walked over by
Speaker 1: the kitchen table and puked. Wow, it's not a dog
Speaker 1: eat dog girl. Yeah, it was the weirdest thing. Dude,
Speaker 1: That dog never pukes. That dog eats you can eat.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't believe what that dog neat. Never pukes? Did
Speaker 1: she eat duck tongue? I put duck tongue in front
Speaker 1: of you pex space and he just guaranteed you know what.
Speaker 1: You know what a favorite snack is for the fur
Speaker 1: handler stew Miller, what his dog likes is, uh, the
Speaker 1: back feet on beavers. That's like a It's like a
Speaker 1: preferred chew toy for his dog and it gets days
Speaker 1: out of a beaver's back foot. Doug quickly h d
Speaker 1: H question for you if it's a widely held conviction.
Speaker 1: Did slowing the spread the uh? That's slowing the spread
Speaker 1: of C w D often involves lowering deer numbers? Yes, right,
Speaker 1: that like you'll like, contagion rates will fall if there's
Speaker 1: less dear having less contact. It's a widely held conviction
Speaker 1: in fact um in many states when there's a c
Speaker 1: w D outbreak. One of the first steps you take
Speaker 1: is it try to go into the hot zone reduced
Speaker 1: numbers to reduce spread and to and to make it
Speaker 1: the animals be less incentivized to strike off and do
Speaker 1: long journeys to find areas that aren't so crowded. Have
Speaker 1: you heard anyone is this? Is this a belief that
Speaker 1: anyone expresses that had you ever heard name, would be
Speaker 1: like e h D giving a real wallop to a
Speaker 1: deer population could be beneficial to really dramatically lowering a
Speaker 1: deer population, thereby perhaps slowing c w D spread. As
Speaker 1: anyone ever said this before, Am I the only person
Speaker 1: that ever like kicked around that correlation. Very uh smart
Speaker 1: man that I talked with this stuff about a lot
Speaker 1: um has has said that I mean, um, I summed
Speaker 1: it up in that e h D could do the
Speaker 1: work that UM hunters are not UM and because the
Speaker 1: h D is correct me if I'm wrong, Jim is uh,
Speaker 1: it's indiscriminate. It's going to kill across the across the population,
Speaker 1: so big giant bucks down to funds UM, which is
Speaker 1: part of what we need to do too. It's interesting
Speaker 1: because UM, some some hunters in my area and people
Speaker 1: that I know and anyway and know and and and
Speaker 1: and know them to be good people. UM have said, Oh,
Speaker 1: I at d h D in my place this year,
Speaker 1: if we found six UH deer around a little pond
Speaker 1: by and and that's been it's like wildfire through the
Speaker 1: local community. And I wonder if a part of that,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I don't question that he found six
Speaker 1: dead deer around his pond. I And and so then
Speaker 1: they're saying, well, it's h D. And I was like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: did the biologists come out and confirm that? And as
Speaker 1: I understand, you have to do that pretty quickly if
Speaker 1: you're going to catch the virus and all of that,
Speaker 1: so like seventy two hours or something like that. UM
Speaker 1: and so of course that they didn't. UM. I also
Speaker 1: know a couple of people who are spreading that to
Speaker 1: be very concerned about the UH policies UM and and
Speaker 1: and ideas that I'm working on to reduce deer population.
Speaker 1: They might be incentivized c h D. It's not c
Speaker 1: w D. Well that no, no, no, no, that UM, Well,
Speaker 1: we don't need to reduce the dear hold because h
Speaker 1: D is doing it for us, is doing it for you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll get into some stats about c w D in
Speaker 1: your area in a minute here. Okay, you know what
Speaker 1: I was gonna mention Spen. You know, Spencer is like, um,
Speaker 1: I love Spencer. I want to say, well, I would
Speaker 1: become one of my favorite people. I wouldn't like the
Speaker 1: abows you. Spencer tries to Uh. Spencer tries to suppress
Speaker 1: information about c w D because he believes it's not sexy.
Speaker 1: Spencer believes that people are tired of hearing about it. Well,
Speaker 1: he tries to suppress it. He's right that it isn't
Speaker 1: isn't sexy. I think that what Spencer is trying to
Speaker 1: do is to keep things interesting and uh. And I
Speaker 1: think that's a healthy discussion about I think it's a
Speaker 1: healthy discussion. It's like, how much of this um should
Speaker 1: we be talking about? I can tell you this. Remember
Speaker 1: those commercials when you were a kid that said ignore
Speaker 1: your teeth and they'll go away. Remember that? Come on,
Speaker 1: you'll remember him? Right? No? No, I like it? Oh
Speaker 1: well I remember that. Maybe it's because where I grew
Speaker 1: up anyway, you know, ignore c w D and it
Speaker 1: won't go away. I'm turning that, you know, I think
Speaker 1: in bumper stickers. So that's good, yeah, you know, but
Speaker 1: the problem, I like the the problem with that slogan is, um,
Speaker 1: you're asking a lot of people because you're trying to
Speaker 1: get them to remember some ship that I don't remember. Right,
Speaker 1: keep working on you'll you'll call it a good one.
Speaker 1: Oh no, Doug already has it. Listen. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you guys know this. It's not ours, it's just
Speaker 1: our turn. Like Doug made that up. Nice, but he
Speaker 1: didn't make that up. I'm telling you, man, Spencer, you're
Speaker 1: good on Google. Google that I've done it. You go
Speaker 1: try to find I challenge you any other reference. You
Speaker 1: type that ship into Google. It's it's like a dug
Speaker 1: during festival for pages and pages and pages, and then
Speaker 1: you get to the end of the dug during stuff,
Speaker 1: it's a black hole. There's nothing, there's nothing. When Doug, like,
Speaker 1: Doug made that up? And did you make up pay
Speaker 1: for what give the give the rallying by time and
Speaker 1: pay for science? Did you make that up? Ye? Well yeah,
Speaker 1: I not heard it before. But that's what you know.
Speaker 1: Sort of the c w D thing, my my attitude
Speaker 1: about chronic wasting diseases that by for science and um,
Speaker 1: I mean that that encompasses an awful lot, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: I mean, let's slow the spread. Let's um let's um
Speaker 1: uh reduce prevalence in areas where exists, um let's preserve
Speaker 1: deer hunting in those areas. I'm Spencer has an open
Speaker 1: invitation to come to the farm and and deer hunt
Speaker 1: with me. And part of the reasons is that I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna like Lacey w D on him the whole
Speaker 1: time but set them up with But Cal was just
Speaker 1: there and Cal's like, you know, at some point, I mean,
Speaker 1: we had our CWD discussions and everything, but He's like,
Speaker 1: at some point you just deer on, Like yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it's not like we're wandering around like c w D.
Speaker 1: You know, it's but you know, and so UM, I mean,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, we've it's been around
Speaker 1: long enough by us, UM and I can talk about
Speaker 1: what's happened on our farm in our area. But that that,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's sort of that new norm. Get
Speaker 1: used to it. I've got the information, I know what
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to do here. The things that we can do.
Speaker 1: I involved politically and um you know, as an activist
Speaker 1: about us not doing what we should be doing. Um,
Speaker 1: and uh, that's what concerns me more than anything. And
Speaker 1: that's like following the science. Well, let's follow the science,
Speaker 1: and the science says we need to be doing a
Speaker 1: better job of demographic control population control. Um. And we're
Speaker 1: not in Wisconsin, and we're really good. I mean, you
Speaker 1: can go into the Wisconsin d n R c w
Speaker 1: D webs website and go to c w D and
Speaker 1: dear Metrics and all of this, and we've got great
Speaker 1: information on there, and I applaud our Department Natural Resources
Speaker 1: for that. But what we don't do is a very
Speaker 1: good job. We don't at all of of doing anything
Speaker 1: to control it, mostly because it's not science, it's politics,
Speaker 1: which goes back to that discussion we were having earlier.
Speaker 1: You get mad at me a little bit, and I
Speaker 1: remember you got one of the times you got one
Speaker 1: of the times you got most mad at me, as
Speaker 1: I had expressed to you know, I had expressed, and
Speaker 1: you wrote me real mean email, like it's actually kind
Speaker 1: of like a mean email. I was piste off and
Speaker 1: I had said I had said something to the effect
Speaker 1: of if I wasn't worried about potential transmission to humans
Speaker 1: down the road, that that that this thing would mutate
Speaker 1: and spread the humans or spread the livestock. No, I
Speaker 1: didn't even bring up livestock humans that that my obsession
Speaker 1: with concerned about c w D. I didn't put it
Speaker 1: quite this way, but would fall like like if God
Speaker 1: came down and said, listen, bro, no human will ever
Speaker 1: get c w D. I would feel my concerns would
Speaker 1: be alleviated. And Doug sent me big old oh my,
Speaker 1: you got personal in it. It's like a metal email
Speaker 1: me and um a side note, Pat Durkin has told
Speaker 1: me that I need to get a speaking of developing apps,
Speaker 1: that it makes your text message sound nicer. Know that
Speaker 1: I need to get an app that once I start
Speaker 1: typing ship like that, that it will not allow me
Speaker 1: to send it until my blood pressure goes down and
Speaker 1: I have a chance to review it. Dog even had
Speaker 1: like a threat to me. He's like basically like really, no,
Speaker 1: you're not that you're gonna come beat me up or anything,
Speaker 1: But it was like a threat like, um, one, you know,
Speaker 1: one sentence like that can destroy decades of We're can well,
Speaker 1: I think that's he's gonna down he get the hook
Speaker 1: that app up to your mouth. Uh, Jim Uh, I
Speaker 1: want to get back to just some stuff about Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: Um and they like, I want to talk about seed
Speaker 1: with with Jim's gonna talk about a new outbreak, like
Speaker 1: a new state added to the long list of states
Speaker 1: and now have c w d Um this will speak
Speaker 1: to Ross Ross being from Idaho. Jim's gonna talk about that.
Speaker 1: And then and Doug, I want to get like kind
Speaker 1: of anecdotal and local and talk about like in your
Speaker 1: neck of the woods, what's going on, Like like, how
Speaker 1: is deer hunting just getting different? And I think it's
Speaker 1: gonna be like an alarm but let him do the
Speaker 1: Idaho deal. But but collect your thoughts sort of. Deer
Speaker 1: hunton is just different now man, And and I think
Speaker 1: that this difference is going to become more widespread over time,
Speaker 1: and there's gonna be a lot of help, a lot
Speaker 1: more stories like Doug story from the last couple of
Speaker 1: deer seasons in Wisconsin. But it hit us first like Idaho,
Speaker 1: Like how's this happen all of a sudden someone in
Speaker 1: Idholes like, holy ship, this year's got CWD. Yeah, CWD spreading,
Speaker 1: you know, increasing in prevalence where it is, and prevalence
Speaker 1: is a percent of the animals in the population that
Speaker 1: is positive, and it and it's spreading, and Idaho just
Speaker 1: joined the CWD club, being the seven state with the
Speaker 1: CWD positive. What was interesting about Idaho is it was
Speaker 1: found on the western side of the state and there's
Speaker 1: no CDWD yet in Washington in those states to the west,
Speaker 1: but there's CWD crowding in on three sides from Wyoming
Speaker 1: and Utah and Montana coming in from the east side.
Speaker 1: So it's really interesting that this first incident was two
Speaker 1: bucks that were harvested in October this year in on
Speaker 1: the west side of the state there night, So it's
Speaker 1: all over. I mean, I think it's gotta be. There's
Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of filling in the hole, filling
Speaker 1: in the gap, and that might be what's going on
Speaker 1: here because they just developed a new CWD plan for
Speaker 1: the state in one and part of that was we're
Speaker 1: gonna test the Panhandle in the northern tip every year,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna test two unit it's over on the
Speaker 1: eastern border every year because that's where we expected to
Speaker 1: come from. And then there's three other units in the
Speaker 1: rest of the state they're going to rotate. And and
Speaker 1: so the first year they tested this one unit that
Speaker 1: was going to rotate, like it just kind of thrown
Speaker 1: in like a fluke. Yeah, And so they just started
Speaker 1: testing there and and they found it. And the fact
Speaker 1: that it's on the west side of the state, I
Speaker 1: would expect them to be filling in the blanks once
Speaker 1: they start sam playing a little more. I've never got
Speaker 1: your perspect on you know what I was saying about
Speaker 1: the human in faction risk? Do you uh, where do
Speaker 1: you fall on it? Personally, I've never killed a deer
Speaker 1: that was CT depositives, so I've never had to make
Speaker 1: the decision. Um. I think about four decades of people
Speaker 1: in the Northern Rockies eating CW depositive deer and it's
Speaker 1: never jumped the human barrier into humans. That gives me
Speaker 1: a lot of comfort. Um. But the CDC and and
Speaker 1: UM World Health Organization recommend that nothing that's been positive
Speaker 1: with prions enter the human food chain. And the CDC
Speaker 1: recommends you you throw the deer out, And so I
Speaker 1: know those are recommendations. Are guys a little jumpie though?
Speaker 1: I feel I think it's a personal decision. I I
Speaker 1: would probably not have any qualms eating one myself. It
Speaker 1: was positive because of four decades of pretty high incidents
Speaker 1: in Wyoming, Colorado, and nobody's gotten sick. But if you've
Speaker 1: got little kids around the table, got a wife, maybe
Speaker 1: a pregnant wife, it's kind of a different conversation, and
Speaker 1: it's a personal decision. I agree, and I talked about
Speaker 1: this more often than I wanted to, and certainly more
Speaker 1: than Spencer wants me to. But um, it is a
Speaker 1: personal decision. And what I've been finding is um that
Speaker 1: people who are gonna eat it anyway don't get their
Speaker 1: dear tested um. And so that's a little troubling in that, yeah,
Speaker 1: you've got I would never I I have killed a
Speaker 1: CW depositive deer um. Actually the one that I killed,
Speaker 1: a friend of mine took it um and uh he
Speaker 1: ended up eating it, and uh I already had you know,
Speaker 1: Freeze was the first one that I that was positive.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I personally am am not. I have chosen
Speaker 1: not to, although even though we have are having positive
Speaker 1: deer on the farm, none of them are ones that
Speaker 1: I have um um butchered and kept for myself, which
Speaker 1: is also a behavior thing. That we can talk about.
Speaker 1: But um, I'm keeping younger dear um ones that are
Speaker 1: that I used to think were less likely to to
Speaker 1: have the disease. Um. Uh but yeah, I mean, don't
Speaker 1: you know, if you want to, it's a personal decision
Speaker 1: to do it, But don't make that decision for somebody else,
Speaker 1: and don't make it that decision for children. I just
Speaker 1: I mean, is it an abundance of caution or is
Speaker 1: it just being a good person. I think it's a
Speaker 1: little of both. You know, lay lay out a little
Speaker 1: bit about what, like just what you're seeing. I mean,
Speaker 1: because you're you mentioned that you describe yourself as an activista, like, uh,
Speaker 1: you're not an academic. Um, you're interested in CWD because
Speaker 1: you've lived c w D now for twenty years on
Speaker 1: a place, Like you've lived c w D for twenty
Speaker 1: years on a place that's been in your family for
Speaker 1: a century. So like you you're sort of like living
Speaker 1: it in real time, meaning like when you look out
Speaker 1: the window or drive around on your property, it's a
Speaker 1: thing that and it's become And I don't want to
Speaker 1: say like yeah, like you're not obsessed with it, But
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, what was the last time you
Speaker 1: went a day without saying c w D well in
Speaker 1: the fall, not very often. I can't, I could, I
Speaker 1: couldn't even tell you. But you know, it's interesting because
Speaker 1: I wrote an article a couple of articles for for
Speaker 1: Meat Eater, and they're out there and you can check
Speaker 1: them out. And UM. Part of his why one of
Speaker 1: was why every hunter And in fact, I said why
Speaker 1: everyone should be concerned about c w D UM from
Speaker 1: all the way from the animal rights or animal welfare
Speaker 1: people down to big giant buck uh, trophy hunters. UM.
Speaker 1: And then what we can do about it? Um? And
Speaker 1: I I have seen the change, and I'll be perfectly
Speaker 1: honest with you when CBD. Firstly, first, you know, I
Speaker 1: was discovered in Wisconsin. Had the dn R knocked on
Speaker 1: my door and said, we gotta kill every day in
Speaker 1: the area. UM, and your farm is right in the
Speaker 1: middle of that area, so let's get started. I had.
Speaker 1: I've been skeptical, you know, And yeah, I mean that's
Speaker 1: what they wanted to do in the eradication zone and
Speaker 1: they and they tried real hard to do that. And
Speaker 1: I started having questions like, well, why is it here,
Speaker 1: Why is it here? Why is this the hot zone,
Speaker 1: and I don't think we've ever really gotten that the
Speaker 1: answer to that question. Wisconsin, There's been a lot of
Speaker 1: speculation and there have been a few people that I
Speaker 1: know and mostly trust, who have you know who anecdotally
Speaker 1: I've talked about some of the things that went on
Speaker 1: down there, and I guess I don't want to get
Speaker 1: too deep into that. The weeds on that. I don't
Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying right now, like why how
Speaker 1: did it start? And how did it start in the
Speaker 1: Mount Horrible area? Um that why was it first discovered there?
Speaker 1: The reason you know, this is a farm analogy. If
Speaker 1: you see one rat, you got a hundred of them.
Speaker 1: And there they found they saw a sick deer and
Speaker 1: tested it for c w D and then realized and
Speaker 1: then they had been doing surveillance for a while, and
Speaker 1: surveillance testing is a really interesting thing, um to me. Um.
Speaker 1: And then they found that it was a little more widespread,
Speaker 1: but the prevalence was really low. I mean, do you
Speaker 1: remember what those gus where it was, you know, like
Speaker 1: in the single digit percentages, um. Um. But what's been
Speaker 1: interesting to me about living with it asking that question is, um,
Speaker 1: what we've discovered up until four years ago. Uh, we
Speaker 1: had no um positives. And we've been testing what was
Speaker 1: recommended the during the in our area and the during
Speaker 1: family farm. We hadn't had a positive. And we were
Speaker 1: testing every deer that they would allow us to test,
Speaker 1: and they were skewing it towards older deer, which to
Speaker 1: the minds of the biologists, were the ones that were
Speaker 1: most apt to have it. We started having four years
Speaker 1: ago when we started, which was about the time I
Speaker 1: quit doing buck management and all of that, um you know,
Speaker 1: uh retired to Sombrero when all those all those things.
Speaker 1: Um uh Can I tell people what that means? You
Speaker 1: you were running like on on your family farm. You
Speaker 1: guys are running a program of like trying to grow
Speaker 1: big bucks. Yeah, we were doing like let let let
Speaker 1: bucks walk and let them grow up big Yeah, and
Speaker 1: shooting does the whole time. Though. Oh yeah, we've we've always,
Speaker 1: I mean for the last twenty five years. Really we've been, um,
Speaker 1: we've been dough killers. Um uh. And remember that I
Speaker 1: when I grew up, when when I first started hunting
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin, four four hunters had to get together in
Speaker 1: August by their license tear a little tag off, write
Speaker 1: their name on it, their number, sent it in with
Speaker 1: some money to the DNR and apply for one dough tag,
Speaker 1: party permit, party permitter. Remember you had the badges said
Speaker 1: you were on your arm and things kind of, but
Speaker 1: you got to kill you got to kill one dough
Speaker 1: with that. Now when Mike Tony with every buck tag,
Speaker 1: you get four dough takes. So that's in fifty years.
Speaker 1: This is my fiftieth year of hunting. Um that uh,
Speaker 1: that's how much it switched, you know, in terms of
Speaker 1: population and management and stuff like that. It's just it's
Speaker 1: an important thing. When people say, oh, I'm concerned about
Speaker 1: how few deer we have, am like, well, you should
Speaker 1: have been around and nineteen seventy one, um and uh
Speaker 1: so um what we ended up finding then when we
Speaker 1: got our first positive it was a two and a
Speaker 1: half year old buck and in four years were supposed
Speaker 1: to let walk. Yeah, but we already but I I had,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I had already said that those all bets
Speaker 1: are off on that shoot. Whatever dear is gonna make
Speaker 1: you happy, And you know, I just I got tired
Speaker 1: of well, I mean you remember we had a little
Speaker 1: incident where managing people gets to be a pain in
Speaker 1: the button. Somebody was offended that I said something about
Speaker 1: our program um on the on on the podcast, and uh, anyway,
Speaker 1: I just like, you know there for a lot of reasons,
Speaker 1: and of them being I don't want to manage people anymore.
Speaker 1: I just want to hunt deer and want people to
Speaker 1: be happy. And oh, by the way, we have a
Speaker 1: situation here where we need to be more aware of
Speaker 1: what's what's going on. So that's uh in younger dear behavior.
Speaker 1: And Jim's gonna just tell me to shut up when
Speaker 1: it's time for me to shut up. Younger deer tend
Speaker 1: to be the ones that travel friends from their home range.
Speaker 1: So when we first started getting positive geer four years ago,
Speaker 1: our five first five year were a year and a
Speaker 1: half old buck Um, a two and a half to
Speaker 1: two and a half year old bucks, a year and
Speaker 1: a half old Dough, and a three year old dough.
Speaker 1: Those were our first five in four years. And those
Speaker 1: are aged by people who are actually aging dear, not
Speaker 1: guys looking at like it's yeah, you know, that's no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: that's being aged with the you know, the tooth charts
Speaker 1: at the CWD testation um and so that kind of
Speaker 1: told me and at the same time, and that in
Speaker 1: those twenty deer, at the same time, we were killing
Speaker 1: five and a half year old Bucks and four and
Speaker 1: a half year old Bucks and sick year old dose
Speaker 1: and so our our dear quote unquote, um on are
Speaker 1: the ones that we're sort of our core deer. We
Speaker 1: didn't we're not CWD positive. Interesting, but they but the
Speaker 1: year links that were dispersing into your area, we're bringing it. So,
Speaker 1: I mean that's what I anecdotally, and I guess the
Speaker 1: biologists are agreeing with me now um or they agreed
Speaker 1: with me. I'm agreeing with what the My anecdotal evidence
Speaker 1: follows the what the what they're what they're saying. Um So,
Speaker 1: in four years and twenty deer, we had five positive.
Speaker 1: This year we've received hit me that again, I didn't
Speaker 1: catch it undred and twenty deer over a four year
Speaker 1: period of time that you tested. Yeah, we had every year.
Speaker 1: We once we could test every year. We have tested
Speaker 1: every year. I mean even you were there the last time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just fun to make sure that. I just wanted to
Speaker 1: catch the span of time in the number. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: we average about that. We have been averaging about thirty
Speaker 1: deer harvested a year um on our four and then
Speaker 1: the you know, surrounding property they also have, I'll be
Speaker 1: able to hunt. Um. So, uh five deer out of
Speaker 1: a hundred twenties, somebody can do. The man that you
Speaker 1: host a hell of a lot of hunters. Yeah. Generally
Speaker 1: over thirty people deer hunt our place every year, um um.
Speaker 1: And we are at deer right now, and we have
Speaker 1: another we have bow hunting, you know, late season bow hunting,
Speaker 1: and we also have the holiday hunt antler less hunt
Speaker 1: coming up. Yet you get there, well, we will hit thirty.
Speaker 1: I mean I was, you know, people ask me what's
Speaker 1: your number, and I was like, don't stop shooting? Um
Speaker 1: And And honestly, I have eleven trail cameras out and
Speaker 1: they all come to a there's a cell set up,
Speaker 1: and they all come to one. And I get that.
Speaker 1: And we have killed twenty nine geer on our farm.
Speaker 1: And you cannot tell the difference on the cell cameras
Speaker 1: the rate of photos coming in. Yeah, the rate of
Speaker 1: photos coming in. And I mean sure that buck isn't
Speaker 1: shown up anymore because dad. But uh so, anyway, so
Speaker 1: five deer in four years a hundred and twenty over
Speaker 1: four year period of time, so one or two a year,
Speaker 1: you know, not really uh, um, so four percent four
Speaker 1: point five percent or something like that, which I'm like,
Speaker 1: let's keep it at that, which is sort of what
Speaker 1: our management strategy has been this year. We've killed twenty
Speaker 1: nine deer. We're still waiting to rest from the results
Speaker 1: for ten, but so nineteen deer, six of them have
Speaker 1: been positive. And all of the good bucks we killed, um,
Speaker 1: a five and a half year old ten pointer, just
Speaker 1: like buck of a lifetime thing. And I, um just
Speaker 1: broke my heart to find out. And but I wondered
Speaker 1: about that here because I took I think I sent
Speaker 1: you the pictures of my note. I posted him on Instagram.
Speaker 1: This guy's like standing in front of me, you know,
Speaker 1: let me pose here in front of the sign for you,
Speaker 1: and then walked out. I mean he was it seemed like,
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, rut behavior, except there wasn't a door around,
Speaker 1: you know. And um, and so he ended up being
Speaker 1: harvested by a friend of mine. And then um, all
Speaker 1: of our so all of our bow bucks, which were
Speaker 1: two and a half, three and a half and five
Speaker 1: you're five and a half year old buck um tested positive,
Speaker 1: and UM, we've had UM another buck test positive and
Speaker 1: two doors and one was a I'm sorry. Both of
Speaker 1: those were three year old. Were aged at three years old. So, UM,
Speaker 1: I feel a little bit like we're losing the battle.
Speaker 1: And part of part of that is UM, because the
Speaker 1: population is still really high. Give me right now, UM,
Speaker 1: what is a what's the current c w D denier?
Speaker 1: What are they what's the c w D denier saying
Speaker 1: right now? They're not saying it's not a thing anymore.
Speaker 1: They've given up on that. And they're not saying that
Speaker 1: prevalence the level off at two they've given up on that. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that. UM. The person who said that
Speaker 1: has you know the um uh James Croll who uh
Speaker 1: said that when he was predicted a level off at Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: Pat Jerkins got him on tape saying it so UM,
Speaker 1: and and you know that we should take a more
Speaker 1: passive approach to c w D in Wisconsin when he
Speaker 1: was our our dear trustee. So would he still I mean,
Speaker 1: he's a he's a you know, he's from the science community.
Speaker 1: Would he still say that it hasn't passed two percent? Um?
Speaker 1: I know there was some questioning of how the data
Speaker 1: is Uh. If you don't like the data, you start
Speaker 1: questioning how the data is gathered. M So I haven't
Speaker 1: heard from him. I haven't heard from James Cole recently,
Speaker 1: so I'm not sure what it stands. The last thing
Speaker 1: that I read that he said, UM was that well
Speaker 1: c w D is UH again to downplay it. It's
Speaker 1: just a problem in four counties in Wisconsin. How would
Speaker 1: you like to be the counties around those four counties. UM,
Speaker 1: Currently in our county, UM prevalence is different than percentage
Speaker 1: of deer tested, So prevalences as Jim described it before.
Speaker 1: But because we don't require testing, it's completely voluntary and
Speaker 1: was in Wisconsin and it sort of makes sense, right. UM. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't picture. I can't picture getting on board with
Speaker 1: mandatory testing except for surveillance areas where they're trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what's going on around here, like Idaho. Right now,
Speaker 1: they just mandatory. Yeah, they just added a bunch of
Speaker 1: tags and you have to get them tested because that's
Speaker 1: the purpose. You know. I do want to walk something back,
Speaker 1: because when you kill a black bear, you damn your
Speaker 1: mandatory bring it down. When you get a river outer
Speaker 1: you bring it down. Yeah, Bobcats has to be tagged now, right,
Speaker 1: there's mandatory testing on stuff. And there was every mountain
Speaker 1: goat like in this state, every mountain goat, every big
Speaker 1: orange sheet biet, they're they're tagged and tested. You have
Speaker 1: to bring it for a visual inspection. So I'm just
Speaker 1: saying I at first, when you said like mandatory blank,
Speaker 1: I was like, well, that's unprecedented. But then I quickly
Speaker 1: realized that it's hardly unprecedented because there's tons of ship
Speaker 1: you gotta bring down. Yeah, it's like you know, well
Speaker 1: would probably be unprecedented in that volume. Yeah, sure, ye. Well,
Speaker 1: and so in a in an area, And I've had
Speaker 1: discussions with the biologists about this, and I think Jim
Speaker 1: would agree. And if he doesn't, again tell me to
Speaker 1: shut up and correct me. But um, in an area
Speaker 1: where you know that c w D already persists, um,
Speaker 1: mandatory testing doesn't necessarily make any sense because you already
Speaker 1: know what persists there. And if you're getting enough tests
Speaker 1: from voluntary testing too to understand how it's spreading, good enough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're getting enough, But if you get like a
Speaker 1: couple of new positives in the new area. You want
Speaker 1: to know what's going on, because like I think it
Speaker 1: was Arkansas that got their first positive and they went
Speaker 1: in and tested and they were like ten already that
Speaker 1: that the prevalence rate was so high that it was
Speaker 1: obvious that had been there a long time. Yeah, Tennessee
Speaker 1: had the same experience. There has been people on the
Speaker 1: other side, like the people who are not alarmed. I
Speaker 1: should stop out of out of respect, I should stop
Speaker 1: saying like c w D deniers. Let me think of
Speaker 1: another way to put it. People who are not alarmed. Okay,
Speaker 1: what what I call? I don't with hell CWD deniers,
Speaker 1: those not alarmed. There has to be an argument. There
Speaker 1: has been an argument that they're saying, dude, it's just
Speaker 1: been here. It's like it's all over, you've been eating it.
Speaker 1: They have it. We still got a lot of deer, right,
Speaker 1: humans haven't caught it. I think that's what they're saying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh right, and uh yeah. There is that evolution
Speaker 1: from uh uh it's it's it's fake. It's a hoax too,
Speaker 1: it's always better. Yeah, it's right, No, No, it really is.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like and you can't do anything about it. Well,
Speaker 1: I can tell you this. This is the first year
Speaker 1: where we've we've got sick deer on our cameras. Um
Speaker 1: and it's heartbreaking when you get that. UM. I posted
Speaker 1: on my Instagram page a video from the dough Derby
Speaker 1: the event that we had UM from fifteen miles south
Speaker 1: of US where Phella pulls into his hunting on a
Speaker 1: farm field and here's this buckleing and the weeds and
Speaker 1: it's had already dropped its antlers. It was emaciated and
Speaker 1: just laying there shaking and six seconds long and I'll
Speaker 1: break your heart. Um. Uh, there are fawn's testing positive
Speaker 1: for CWD. So if you're a big giant buck guy,
Speaker 1: and prevalence is so high that flawns are testing positive, um,
Speaker 1: a buck fawn is going to die from that disease
Speaker 1: in two years, if he doesn't die from a bullet. Uh.
Speaker 1: So the days of big giant bucks are going to
Speaker 1: become more difficult. That said, because this guy is gonna
Speaker 1: write in UM, Richland County, we are still killing big
Speaker 1: giant bucks. That's the like we talked, I I hit
Speaker 1: you up with that idea. Here here I am, I'm
Speaker 1: just a Joe blow sitting there right now. Being like, man,
Speaker 1: how worried should be about this? And and you're like,
Speaker 1: it's okay, it's indisputable that c WD is always fatal. Okay,
Speaker 1: it kills him. It kills him in what two years?
Speaker 1: So here you are, you're like in a hot zone.
Speaker 1: You've been dealing with c w D for how many years?
Speaker 1: Well twenty, I mean south of US, so you're still
Speaker 1: shooting big bucks. And I'm just saying like, like here
Speaker 1: I am, so I'm this guy, and I'm saying to
Speaker 1: you like, Okay, Doug, that's all great and fine. You've
Speaker 1: had c w D around for that long, you've got
Speaker 1: this huge prevalence. But a guy just got a once
Speaker 1: in a lifetime buck on your place. So what really,
Speaker 1: if I'm not worried about catching it, what's the problem.
Speaker 1: It's not a problem on my place now. But I
Speaker 1: can take you to a property south of US about
Speaker 1: fifteen miles where they weren't killing big giant bucks anymore.
Speaker 1: They were finding them dead in the woods. And what
Speaker 1: they change their attitude and said, well, we're just gonna
Speaker 1: become deer hunters again, and and they test every deer
Speaker 1: and um, so they feel like they feel like they've
Speaker 1: crossed that threshold where they don't have deer getting to
Speaker 1: be five years old. Jim, Yeah, it's it's bounded. It's
Speaker 1: gonna change. It's bound to change. When when you get
Speaker 1: an animal that contracts it and it's only gonna live
Speaker 1: for two years, you're not gonna have a lot of
Speaker 1: mature bucks out there. You're gonna run out. Are we
Speaker 1: seeing that happen in places? From your perspective? I don't know. Personally,
Speaker 1: you know, you'd have to go to the Northern Rockies, um,
Speaker 1: like Wyoming in Colorado is the place where the prevalence
Speaker 1: in the game management unit, And I'm just not familiar
Speaker 1: enough to know whether they're seeing changes in age, structure
Speaker 1: and things. I don't know. But when you get problems
Speaker 1: would be like the first thing that I think that like,
Speaker 1: like that would be the thing that that people would
Speaker 1: be more not the second most interesting part of this.
Speaker 1: The first most interesting part is disease transmission. To my view,
Speaker 1: the second most interesting part is, like, is this the
Speaker 1: end of Big Giant Box? I feel like someone will
Speaker 1: be looking at like Boone and Crockett entries coming out
Speaker 1: of these c w D zones. If you've got thirty
Speaker 1: of the males. One thing too, that a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't talk about it when we talk about prevalence
Speaker 1: rates throughout the Western meal deer prevalence rate is defined
Speaker 1: by those wildlife disease experts as the percent of the
Speaker 1: males older than one year that are positive. Very specific. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and so females have a lower prevalence rate. Um.
Speaker 1: But but you have you have to arrive at some
Speaker 1: kind of definition, so you're not adding a bunch of
Speaker 1: does in one state and not another state. So so
Speaker 1: they've defined prevalence rate and keep it consistent throughout the
Speaker 1: West as just being bucks older than a year, males
Speaker 1: older than a year, and that's prevalence rate. And so
Speaker 1: when you've got problems, right, you're just not gonna get
Speaker 1: bucks that are living to six, seven, eight years old.
Speaker 1: You're gonna do very few of them because at any
Speaker 1: given time, one fifth of bucks over one year of age. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so and then it's also driven by population. But
Speaker 1: you can go on to the risk to the cw
Speaker 1: D page of Wisconsin d n are and there's some
Speaker 1: prevalence studies that are going on in southeastern Richland County.
Speaker 1: We're in northeastern Ridgmond County and go into southeastern Riskon
Speaker 1: County and see what the trends are there. And those
Speaker 1: are the areas where anecdotally it supports exactly the same
Speaker 1: thing that the anecdotes are. It's higher prevalence in older bucks.
Speaker 1: And anecdotally, we're not running out a deer because we're
Speaker 1: really good at growing deer. You know, birth and deer
Speaker 1: and are part of you know what. It's like, It's
Speaker 1: just it's shango live if you're a deer. We've got
Speaker 1: all these groceries in the spring and summer and fall,
Speaker 1: um in the winter not so much, but um so
Speaker 1: we're producing a lot of deer. And that's one of
Speaker 1: the things that the what did we call them, the
Speaker 1: CWD skeptics, I thought they were going to uh. I
Speaker 1: thought all the deer were gonna be dead by now.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I thought the prevalence was gonna level
Speaker 1: off at two percent. You know what the hell you
Speaker 1: want to talk about here? I mean, don't don't throw
Speaker 1: that ship at me. Let's take a look at what
Speaker 1: what is really happening. And um uh positive funds and
Speaker 1: and Jim could talk about this too. I'm sure about
Speaker 1: you know, as a as a faun getting CWD from
Speaker 1: a positive doe in utero or is that you know,
Speaker 1: happening after and why there's some really interesting I just
Speaker 1: haven't been down that rabbit hole too far. I have
Speaker 1: talked to a couple of biologists about it. But I
Speaker 1: think I saw a report recently of some research that
Speaker 1: I think it's still in progress, that they found the
Speaker 1: mouthform preon in fetal tissue not even born yet it's
Speaker 1: got CD. So what I'm trying, what I'm trying to
Speaker 1: do with with with my here's where I'm coming from
Speaker 1: with it. And again you can read that article. I
Speaker 1: I like killing big giant bucks. I am not a
Speaker 1: guy who wants to go out and kill every deer
Speaker 1: just because every deer, you know, is possible, because we
Speaker 1: can just let's just kill every deer to control this disease.
Speaker 1: I want a healthy dear herd. I think we need
Speaker 1: to be talking about healthy deer management UM as opposed
Speaker 1: to you know, big big giant buck management, the other
Speaker 1: thing that's happening in our area. We got so deep
Speaker 1: into um the big giant buck management. They're not rare anymore.
Speaker 1: I mean, oh yeah, nice hunter and six deer we
Speaker 1: killed two over here. I mean it's it's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's true. There's still just giants being killed. A giant
Speaker 1: was killed by a neighbor, you know, the same thing.
Speaker 1: One seventy class buck c w D not detected, you know,
Speaker 1: four year old buck. So there's some of that too.
Speaker 1: It's sort of like you would talk one time about
Speaker 1: COVID and I was like, well, not one one of
Speaker 1: those things that Steve like said I latched on, or
Speaker 1: it says that that I latched onto, and that was
Speaker 1: you said, boy COVID. The thing that freaks me out
Speaker 1: about it is how sort of how it affects every
Speaker 1: thing's differently, people differently, and some people get really sick
Speaker 1: and some people hardly get sick at all. And this
Speaker 1: is almost the same sort of thing. But as prevalence
Speaker 1: goes up, we're gonna have less of that we have.
Speaker 1: I what I preach to people is it's the deer
Speaker 1: herd is going to be smaller in our area. And
Speaker 1: you know what, we can either be the ones driving
Speaker 1: that and have a nice age structure and a nice um,
Speaker 1: you know, a nice balanced herd um with a lower
Speaker 1: prevalence or we can let c w D do it,
Speaker 1: and yeah, we can have all kinds of your and
Speaker 1: they're gonna be young ones. We're going to be positive.
Speaker 1: Then no, not too h all right, Jim, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: eat me some quick hitters, because see we got the problem.
Speaker 1: Richie's over here dying. He's ready play me the trivia.
Speaker 1: Did you know right over there? Ah? Yeah, no, I'm
Speaker 1: doing great and this is fascinating sitting here and watch
Speaker 1: this and good deal. So hang there, Jim's gonna do
Speaker 1: a bunch of quick hitters. We're gonna time you on
Speaker 1: how quick you can handle all these times. Okay, Ready,
Speaker 1: guy rode in with a doe and antler dope which
Speaker 1: has got like three it's a full on, that's all
Speaker 1: you call it. It's got like double brow times hard
Speaker 1: antler like a nice buck. But it's a dope. That's
Speaker 1: an unusual that's a really unusual case, that one that
Speaker 1: was sent in there. I've been getting these reports for forever,
Speaker 1: and the confusion is there's a whole bunch of different
Speaker 1: conditions that can make a buck actually look like a
Speaker 1: female when you when you kill, when you kill a
Speaker 1: deer that's got antlers, you open the legs up, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't look like you don't find a male genitalia.
Speaker 1: That's that's obvious. Until here, I'm talking about testicles against Spencer.
Speaker 1: Pay attention. There's he's like, now he's getting sexy in here.
Speaker 1: There's a condition called hypoconatle bucks, which which their testicles
Speaker 1: are actually in the scrotum, but their size of a p.
Speaker 1: So if you want to insult your your your camp mates,
Speaker 1: just call them hypogonadle. But they don't have the kind
Speaker 1: of testosterone and so they they don't develop as they're
Speaker 1: developing young, they don't develop the full male external gentitlia
Speaker 1: to look hormal. And so when you when someone open
Speaker 1: the legs, it looks like a female, and they immediately
Speaker 1: declare it as an antler do they go on? But
Speaker 1: it's really not. It's just a malformed buck. There's also
Speaker 1: crypt orchid males, which the testicles don't they never descend
Speaker 1: into the scrotum. They stay in the body cavity, en
Speaker 1: cased in fat, and that throws people off. And and
Speaker 1: so you look and there's no scrotum, there's no testicles,
Speaker 1: and and sometimes even the penis can look like it's
Speaker 1: in a fold like almost almost different, almost like a female,
Speaker 1: and so that that throws people off there too. But
Speaker 1: in that case, the testicles are in the body and
Speaker 1: they're producing testosterone and so they get hard antler and
Speaker 1: everything else. So this is a lot of those like
Speaker 1: uh dope bucks. Sometimes they're called pseudo hermaphrodites because I
Speaker 1: mean it's like people are and then people are writing
Speaker 1: to you being like it's a it's a dough, yep.
Speaker 1: And then and then you say, well, what kind of
Speaker 1: genitalia would it looked like, Well, I don't know, we
Speaker 1: got it, and you know, there's no proof. So a
Speaker 1: lot of cases you don't know what's going on. But
Speaker 1: so this picture here, you can't really tell. Well, I
Speaker 1: I think I can, right, that's the picture. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: there's there are cases where you have antler does and
Speaker 1: that can happen from uh an injury to the skull.
Speaker 1: There's a certain region the temporal bone on the skull
Speaker 1: that's real sensitive to you of the bones injured at
Speaker 1: a certain time of the year, it can produce even
Speaker 1: in the dough, it can produce an odd antler coming
Speaker 1: out of the skull plate because dose produced testosterone in
Speaker 1: an adrenal gland too, so they produce a little bit
Speaker 1: a testosterone, and antler development is not dependent on testosterone. Actually,
Speaker 1: antlers grow at a low point of testosterone during the year.
Speaker 1: They grow their antlers in velvet, and then you get
Speaker 1: close to rut, testosterone levels come up. The rising testosterone
Speaker 1: levels then dry the velvet, they shed the velvet, and
Speaker 1: then they go through rut. And after the rut, testosterone
Speaker 1: drops precipitously and that's what triggers then the shedding of
Speaker 1: antlers dropping off. So the antlers are growing during a
Speaker 1: period of low testosterone. So in certain cases, if a
Speaker 1: dough has a tumor on her ovary and it messes
Speaker 1: up the hormone system or she gets an injury in
Speaker 1: the skull, she can actually produce antlers. And there's cases
Speaker 1: where does have antlers that are actually reproductive and then
Speaker 1: they're reproducing and have a fall, and but in almost
Speaker 1: every single one of those cases, the dough stay in
Speaker 1: velvet because they don't have that dramatic increase in t
Speaker 1: stosterone to dry the velvet and shed the antlers. So
Speaker 1: they'll stay in velvet through the winter and and even
Speaker 1: hang onto their antlers and not chet them because they
Speaker 1: don't have the testoina. But what's unusual about this is
Speaker 1: that that was a hard antler in that picture from
Speaker 1: Missouri and I and I wrote to the game warden
Speaker 1: who contacted the hunter out in the field. She sent
Speaker 1: me some more pictures and in one of the pictures
Speaker 1: you can almost see it. You can clearly see it
Speaker 1: doesn't have a scrotum, doesn't have a penis that has
Speaker 1: four nipples. But males have four nipples too. In dear,
Speaker 1: a hunter called me one time said he shot at
Speaker 1: antler dough because they had four nipples. And I said,
Speaker 1: look inside your shirt right now, tell me what you see?
Speaker 1: Four nipples? Four nipples. Yeah. But but in that particular picture,
Speaker 1: I think I can almost see it what looks like
Speaker 1: a volva uh, kind of on the edge of the picture.
Speaker 1: I think that might be a legitimate heart antler dough,
Speaker 1: which is extremely rare. But these odd things happened. She
Speaker 1: could have something strange with her ovaries that's producing enough
Speaker 1: to stops for him to do that. Okay, right for
Speaker 1: next one. Alyssa from Michigan wrote in She's got a
Speaker 1: picture of a buck with cow spots. She's calling it
Speaker 1: so pawpaw Michigan buck with cow spots. We call it
Speaker 1: piebald um. It's like not quite like being albino. You
Speaker 1: can clarify that. And there's people saying that, man, you
Speaker 1: got to shoot those deer because they got health problems. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's some truth to that. You don't need to shoot
Speaker 1: those deer. There's there's actually that piebald condition is something
Speaker 1: that shows up here and there especially made it. You
Speaker 1: can't shoot those deer. A lot of it's state by states.
Speaker 1: Some states you can't shoot a white deer, you can't
Speaker 1: shoot a piebald deer. So it depends on that. But
Speaker 1: that pipebald condition is a recessive genetic condition and comes
Speaker 1: along with um deformed spine like scoliosism, deformed poves, bode
Speaker 1: leg short legs, short nose, short jaw um. Sometimes internal
Speaker 1: organs are are not formed correctly, and so there's other
Speaker 1: genetic problems with those piebald deer. But some deer, some
Speaker 1: dear die right away because of the problems when their fones.
Speaker 1: Some deer don't have too many of those other problems,
Speaker 1: and they'll live to adulthood and you'll have a you'll
Speaker 1: have a buck, mature buck that looks like Doug's favorite beer,
Speaker 1: the Spotted Kyle from New Glarious Brewery. You've got these
Speaker 1: brown and white patches and they're always random. There's no
Speaker 1: two that are like they're just random on them and
Speaker 1: they could be sextually viable. Yeah, definitely. So is it
Speaker 1: a lot? So is it like, um, when they make
Speaker 1: it illegal to get one to shoot one? Is that
Speaker 1: kind of just It's just it's like it's like an
Speaker 1: aesthetic thing, like people want to see them. It's aesthetics.
Speaker 1: It's it's not a common enough thing that it's gonna
Speaker 1: be more common, um if you preserve them, and so
Speaker 1: many of them are dying because of the other issues
Speaker 1: like that. It's it's just purely a social thing. It's
Speaker 1: not gonna affect any you Ready for the last one,
Speaker 1: deer with fangs from the elk Ivories Deer with fangs
Speaker 1: people right in all time, they got like a deer
Speaker 1: with some crazy teeth going on. Yeah, white tailed mealder
Speaker 1: do not normally have upper canine teeth, but in rare
Speaker 1: cases that we get a throwback from evolution. And and
Speaker 1: I say that because back in the Mile scene, the
Speaker 1: early dino deer or the early primitive deer. Generally most
Speaker 1: of those had fangs and and some of the early
Speaker 1: ones just had fangs, and then Antler's kind of developed
Speaker 1: and we showed up in the fossil record, and as
Speaker 1: we got more and more fangs older in the fossil records,
Speaker 1: there's some of some antlerless animals that are in the
Speaker 1: deer family, depending on when you start the deer family
Speaker 1: with big tufts like that, and the tusts probably served
Speaker 1: the same purpose as antlers as display um, probably mostly
Speaker 1: as display maybe as fighting intimidation of of rivals um.
Speaker 1: But then as antler's development got more elaborate throughout deer evolution,
Speaker 1: those fangs got smaller and smaller, and now we still
Speaker 1: have over half of the forty species in the deer
Speaker 1: family that have upper can nine teeth. And when you
Speaker 1: get when you talk, when you hear someone talk about
Speaker 1: elk ivory, like I'm having a necklace made for my wife,
Speaker 1: um um that has elk ivory incorporated in it. That
Speaker 1: is a vestigial tuss, that's a deer fang. Sure, that's
Speaker 1: just one. Elk are one of the species that retain
Speaker 1: those upper upper can nines. What's interesting bottom is that
Speaker 1: how wiggly they are. Sometimes they're loose, sometimes they are
Speaker 1: firm in the in the socket there. But you think
Speaker 1: about um like a primitive deer probably looks a lot
Speaker 1: like a munth check with small lantler's up on big
Speaker 1: stalks and then um canines. But but with what's interesting
Speaker 1: about the white tail and muld are not normally having
Speaker 1: canines is species that do have big canines, like the
Speaker 1: Chinese water deer has big tusks, and underneath on the
Speaker 1: lower lip, underneath that fang is a black spot black
Speaker 1: fur that kind of accentuates that white kid and it
Speaker 1: just it kind of it kind of shows it off.
Speaker 1: But what's interesting if you look at a deer amount
Speaker 1: of a white tailor meal there and they also have
Speaker 1: that black labial spot on the lower on the right
Speaker 1: where that canine would be. And so the question is
Speaker 1: did they lose their canines and most individuals and still
Speaker 1: retain that black labial spot. Is that what that black
Speaker 1: label spots for? Because what else is it for? And
Speaker 1: you look at some other tut animals and you see
Speaker 1: that black spot, that's pretty interesting. It might be this
Speaker 1: evolutionary throwback from from Tino deer. Are there any other
Speaker 1: primitive characteristics? I thought that I've seen that some of
Speaker 1: the canine deer will often have like a very black
Speaker 1: defined line above their eyes, like a black eyebrow. That
Speaker 1: was one individual deer from from Louisiana. There was a
Speaker 1: deer that had in Florida, maybe it was I think Louisiana.
Speaker 1: Was it Louisiana, That's what was in my head. But
Speaker 1: it had pretty big canine tusks, and then it had
Speaker 1: a strange black tap on the forehead and so that
Speaker 1: was um. Lindsay Thomas Rod from from National Deer Association
Speaker 1: wrote an article about that and talk to me about that,
Speaker 1: and he talked a lot in that article about that
Speaker 1: being um, the black markings and the canines all being
Speaker 1: primitive characteristics. But no one, you know, no one really
Speaker 1: knows what the fur look like back in the Miocene.
Speaker 1: But I had an illustrator for a for a Melder
Speaker 1: book that's coming up illustrate some of these extinct deer species,
Speaker 1: and I actually had him illustrate one of them with
Speaker 1: that black v from that individual. And let's go Indiana. Richie,
Speaker 1: do you feel like Jim's gonna kick the sh out
Speaker 1: everybody at trivia. Yes, if it's a deer, if you
Speaker 1: want to win, man, i'd have your sights on beating Jim.
Speaker 1: That's I'm kind of working on my angle over here.
Speaker 1: Is there a high prevalence of der questions? Um? I
Speaker 1: don't think so good. We're gonna get right into it.
Speaker 1: This is kicking off, I tell you is it? Kick
Speaker 1: Off is some hot meat eat or trivia action hosted
Speaker 1: by Spencer new Heart. So right, this is trivia you're
Speaker 1: not going to get from Jeopardy or Trivial pers Okay,
Speaker 1: my racer, I'm gonna think that's not in there. You
Speaker 1: got sleeves, there's the next drab sleeves are even black? Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm ready to go get Eddy. This is trivia
Speaker 1: you're not going to get from Jeopardy or Trivial Pursuit
Speaker 1: or any bar night trivia. These are born out of
Speaker 1: meat eaters four verticals and made just for our metetor audience. Steve,
Speaker 1: what are our four verticals? I'm gonna stop doing this
Speaker 1: because I think that it's stupid. I don't they don't fit.
Speaker 1: I think this makes it special. When you have a
Speaker 1: question that go ahead, they don't fit. Yeah, you can say, like,
Speaker 1: like our what we're interested here at this here we're
Speaker 1: well our interests hunting, fishing, wild foods, wildlife conservation. But
Speaker 1: when it comes to trivia and you ask him out
Speaker 1: man question, it doesn't. I'll ask someone else that question.
Speaker 1: From now on, there is it's listen, dude, it's outdoor trivia.
Speaker 1: But it's like it's like specific to meet either. Okay,
Speaker 1: then rebranded, but there's a when we come out with
Speaker 1: the actual game that you can buy. It's gonna have
Speaker 1: a Pioneers and Explorers categories. Okay, when you go to
Speaker 1: our website, you're not gonna go to a drop down
Speaker 1: menu that says Pioneers and Explorers on it. Technically under
Speaker 1: our conservation tab is where you'll find Okay, So the
Speaker 1: worst hide hunter okay, the worst hide hunter okay, j
Speaker 1: Wright more would live under conservation. The man who claims
Speaker 1: to have killed ten thousand buffalo. Yeah, when we cover
Speaker 1: a poacher that goes under wildlife management, which lives under conservation. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, let's start. There is a prize. Media will
Speaker 1: donate what hundred dollars to the conservation organization The winners choosing.
Speaker 1: We've played four times so far. Brody has one twice,
Speaker 1: Steve has won once, and Clay has won once. All right,
Speaker 1: we have some housekeeping. I have a punt gun update.
Speaker 1: This is a quote from the Boon and Crocket Club.
Speaker 1: Not yet a quote from the Boone and Crocket Club.
Speaker 1: Many states had outlawed the use of punt guns by
Speaker 1: the eighteen sixties, but it wasn't working. At the turn
Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, federal law was desperately needed, not
Speaker 1: just for waterfowl, but all of the nation's wildlife. Also.
Speaker 1: I found three punt guns for sale in online auctions
Speaker 1: right now. They range from four thousand dollars to eight
Speaker 1: thousand dollars and from six ft long to ten feet long.
Speaker 1: One sellers selling point said that his buddy shoulder fired
Speaker 1: the gun and broke his collar bone, So he'd recommend
Speaker 1: you mounted on something if you shoot it again. It's
Speaker 1: to hear man from a lot of heat behind that. Uh. Now,
Speaker 1: for today's trivia, we have a stacked room. We have Jim,
Speaker 1: who knows everything about everything, Doug who also knows everything
Speaker 1: about everything, and then else we have Richie. He'll find
Speaker 1: out that's right, Richie is representing all meat eater listeners.
Speaker 1: So a lot of pressure, Richie. I don't know that
Speaker 1: everybody's gonna vote for me to represent that. Well that's
Speaker 1: that's how this works. You represent them all, Richie. A
Speaker 1: lot of pressure Phil playing music. Look, I need to
Speaker 1: know what I stand to win everything? How's that had
Speaker 1: just tend to win everything? Alright? Question one, and like
Speaker 1: every time we play, this is multiple choice. For the
Speaker 1: first question, the topic is fishing. This first great question
Speaker 1: comes to us via Cody aust Hout and rich Relehan.
Speaker 1: If you have a question you think is right for
Speaker 1: media to trivia, you can send it to Trivia at
Speaker 1: the media dot Com. The question is which of the
Speaker 1: following trout is not actually a trout, rainbow trout, brook trout,
Speaker 1: golden trout, or brown trout? Which of the following trout
Speaker 1: is not actually a trout, Rainbow, brooke, golden, or brown.
Speaker 1: Steve has a question. No, I'm justlating. I already got
Speaker 1: the answer. Okay, we have a confidence. Steve Jim is
Speaker 1: e racing the ringer is uh? Questionable? On the first question,
Speaker 1: does everybody have an answer? Can you repeat the which
Speaker 1: of the following trout is not actually a trout rainbow
Speaker 1: brooke golden or brown. Rainbow Brooke golden or brown. Alright,
Speaker 1: go ahead and reveal your answers. We have Krin saying golden,
Speaker 1: Doug saying rainbow, Steve saying brook, Jim saying golden, Ross
Speaker 1: saying golden, Richie saying golden, Phil saying brooke, and Sean
Speaker 1: saying golden. The correct answer is brook trout and Steve
Speaker 1: got it correct. Brook Trotter technically members of Phil got
Speaker 1: it right. I added a fishing podcast every week that's
Speaker 1: just paying off brook Trotter technically members of the char family.
Speaker 1: Many historians consider them the most targeted fish in America
Speaker 1: up until the late eighteen hundreds. That's when brook trout
Speaker 1: were displaced by stockings of brown trout and rainbow trout
Speaker 1: across much of their range. Well filler down, you can
Speaker 1: fill around the board. Topic to the topic is cooking.
Speaker 1: According to section three nineteen of the Department of Eggs
Speaker 1: Code of Federal Regulations, for something to legally be called
Speaker 1: an Italian sausage, it needs to have salt, pepper, and
Speaker 1: one other spice. What is that third spice? This is
Speaker 1: a legal definition of an Italian sausage. It needs to
Speaker 1: have salt, pepper and one other spice. I want you
Speaker 1: to tell me that third spice. Feeling good about this one?
Speaker 1: I have no clue feeling very good about this one.
Speaker 1: Does everybody have an answer? Go ahead and reveal your answers.
Speaker 1: We have Karin saying Fennel, Doug with no answer, Jim
Speaker 1: saying Fennel, Ross saying Reguano, Ritchie saying sage, Phil saying Paprika,
Speaker 1: and Sean without an answer. The correct answer is Fennel.
Speaker 1: What did you have? Phil? I put Pepa or Star Annie,
Speaker 1: so Fennel or star. Listen man, I'm like barely Italian.
Speaker 1: I got an Italian name, but I'm like talking about Sicilian.
Speaker 1: I did the I did the whole thing. I'm Italian,
Speaker 1: two percent North African, then a whole bunch of West
Speaker 1: Western European. Yeah, but he talks about it like he's
Speaker 1: from the Other rules include that the final product cannot
Speaker 1: have more than thirty five percent fat or three percent
Speaker 1: water if the sausage has been smoked, cooked, and cured.
Speaker 1: Those words must be used in the product name in
Speaker 1: the same size font as the words Italian sausage, can
Speaker 1: you whoever wrote fennel, can you raise your hand really quick,
Speaker 1: Karin Steed? Right. What makes that way more embarrassing for
Speaker 1: me is that my brother cooked fennel sausage ravioli the
Speaker 1: other night. I so should have known that there's a
Speaker 1: sausage that we've been making that we got from the
Speaker 1: cookbook that our buddy Steve Kendrawt has and meg Nanni
Speaker 1: is MiG Yanni's like standard sausage. Now it's salt like
Speaker 1: dear meat and fat, right, ye, salt, black pepper. Final,
Speaker 1: it's Italian the best. It's like so simple and so good.
Speaker 1: Everyone eats. It's like holy ship. It's like, dude, that's
Speaker 1: three things. It is phenomenal plus Question three, the topic
Speaker 1: is big Game. What state has the largest population of
Speaker 1: prong horn antelope? What state has the largest population of
Speaker 1: prong horn antalope? We have some quick answers in the room.
Speaker 1: Does everybody have an answer? Not? Phil? Phil? Now do
Speaker 1: us go ahead and reveal your answers. We have Korean
Speaker 1: saying Wyoming, Wyoming, Wyoming, Wyoming, Wyoming, Wyoming, Phil saying Arizona.
Speaker 1: The correct answer is Wyoming. Wyoming has a commanding lead
Speaker 1: on the rest of the Mars. Such a promising start
Speaker 1: with that bird trout ship. Wyoming has a commanding lead
Speaker 1: in the rest of America, with about four hundred thousand
Speaker 1: antelope within its borders. Montana is second at one hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty five thousand, Colorado third at seventy thousand in
Speaker 1: New Mexico and South Dakota share fourth place at about
Speaker 1: a really comfortable lead. Man and their numbers, like any
Speaker 1: state's animal numbers, fluctuate a lot. I think it was
Speaker 1: like a decade ago they were at five hundred thousand,
Speaker 1: So they dominate the rest of the country. When it
Speaker 1: comes to goats. Question for the topic is biology. Oh,
Speaker 1: this is a jimmure pressure. I'll blow it sec Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what do you got? We had to write in from
Speaker 1: a biologist saying, can we please stop calling pronghorns pronghorn?
Speaker 1: Antelone tell what we're going on? Yeah, the topic again
Speaker 1: is biologies. Is question for this chief vein of the
Speaker 1: thigh supplies oxygenated blood from the heart to the lower extremities.
Speaker 1: This chief vein of the thigh supplies oxygenated blood from
Speaker 1: the heart to the lower extremities. Again, a confident room
Speaker 1: Karin is even dancing in her chair. She feels so
Speaker 1: good about her answer. Can you repeat that again? Yes?
Speaker 1: Who Jim? If you could repeat it? Okay? Are you
Speaker 1: fact checking me? Now? Uh? This chief vein of the
Speaker 1: thigh supplies oxygenated blood from the heart to the lower extremities.
Speaker 1: I love if I got it. Everybody was saying, make
Speaker 1: Jim feel better and classify this under physiology. I am
Speaker 1: blaking so hard right now, it's ridiculous. M hm. Do
Speaker 1: we need a second it? We're good. I know I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: Go ahead and reveal your answers. We have Karine saying
Speaker 1: for moral artery, for moral artery, for moral artery, Jim
Speaker 1: saying vena Kava, Ross saying for moral Richie with no answer,
Speaker 1: Phil saying for morial and but he's taking to get
Speaker 1: a point for writing apheal. Mean, that's that's my bad.
Speaker 1: Correct answer is for moral artery. But I really I've
Speaker 1: never seen it written. Now, I don't people saying federal
Speaker 1: and I thought it was aphemeral. That's an art, that's
Speaker 1: an artery that goes away. Yeah, thank you, Steve. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna protest that one though, because the vein can't be
Speaker 1: an artery. Artery can't be a vein. That's why I thought,
Speaker 1: what blood vessel? I thought of the world. Dude, I
Speaker 1: think that you got to throw that out, Spencer. I
Speaker 1: think Spencer gets a negative score. Man, you have to
Speaker 1: throw it out. I should get plus two. Then, yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta throw it out. That was tripped me up to.
Speaker 1: I'm seeing places that call it a vein, but not like, uh,
Speaker 1: not educated places. So you you may have me there. Okay,
Speaker 1: I would give Jim the correct answer. I think Jim
Speaker 1: would have got it if not throwing it up, but
Speaker 1: what was everybody would have got it, Jim. Let's just
Speaker 1: do the honesty thing. You would have gotten it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was thinking for more and then I said, repeat that,
Speaker 1: oh vein, I can't think of a van. Here's the
Speaker 1: thing here. But here, here's where you're not thinking it through.
Speaker 1: He said, supplies blood too. Yeah, so you should have
Speaker 1: been like, you should have recognized that there was a contradiction,
Speaker 1: if you're such a Joe smarty pants, I did. That's
Speaker 1: why I wanted to repeat it. Contradiction. You got a
Speaker 1: vein supplying and he's never played before, so he might
Speaker 1: not feel comfortable. Yeah, yeah, I know that Spencer is
Speaker 1: in fact fallible. I feel bad about the question. I
Speaker 1: would give Jim credit because he would know better than
Speaker 1: get Jim credit. But I think everybody was every ephemeral. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Femeral's no, I'm not gonna argue with you unless see
Speaker 1: Sean Karen, Doug Steve. In Leonard Lee rust seventy eight
Speaker 1: book The Deer of North America, he estimates that a
Speaker 1: white tail shot in the famoral arder will only survive
Speaker 1: about eighty do one hundred and twenty seconds before it
Speaker 1: runs out of oxygen in its brain and bloodstream. I
Speaker 1: can tell you that you think faster or slower man
Speaker 1: mile man hit one. When I was a little kid,
Speaker 1: we found it a mile and a half away, but
Speaker 1: hit nicked right. It's different. He we got there, he
Speaker 1: didn't have any of the stuff. And remember he took
Speaker 1: the only thing he had. I can't remember how his
Speaker 1: word like he had found his arrows somewhere along the
Speaker 1: way and UH had to use like it took a
Speaker 1: had to gut it. He didn't have his knife or anything.
Speaker 1: Remember him taking a one of those rocky mountain broadheads
Speaker 1: apart and gutting it with one of the single little
Speaker 1: blades the entire deer. Gutted the entire deer. Wow, I mean,
Speaker 1: what do you mean how do you got partial part
Speaker 1: of a deer? I don't know if he just like
Speaker 1: opened it up and then carry it on with something
Speaker 1: like use his hands from there or something. No, he did,
Speaker 1: like he took it apart. And remember him gotting the
Speaker 1: deer with that little that little wedge of a razor blade. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think hog dresses where you leave everything north of
Speaker 1: the diaphragm. Yeah, they cut. There's the Scots called like
Speaker 1: like they got a word for it. It's like the
Speaker 1: diaphragm down, grutching or glotching, diaphragm down, like gut it,
Speaker 1: gut it, diaphragm down, and they called like whatever the hell. Okay,
Speaker 1: we are on the question five. The topic is natural history.
Speaker 1: This next great question comes to us via Mark David Bradford.
Speaker 1: If you have a question you think is right for
Speaker 1: media trivia, send it to Trivia at the mediator dot com.
Speaker 1: Merryweather Lewis brought a dog along for the Core Discovery expedition.
Speaker 1: It's the only animal to come eat the entire three
Speaker 1: year journey journey. I need you to either give me
Speaker 1: the dog's name or tell me it's breed. I don't
Speaker 1: even know you had a damn dog. There are there's
Speaker 1: a sad STATU saw somewhere that there are more statues
Speaker 1: of the dog than there was uh of York. Yes,
Speaker 1: marywether Lewis brought a dog along for the Core of
Speaker 1: Discovery expedition. It's the only animal to complete the entire
Speaker 1: three year journey. I need you to either get I
Speaker 1: should know the name too, but I can't think. I
Speaker 1: have no name of the I just had an illustrator
Speaker 1: illustrate that scene of them killing the first mule. Here
Speaker 1: it was a dog in it. Okay, great, yep. I
Speaker 1: had to describe to the illustrator what kind of dog
Speaker 1: to draw afterwards. I had that dog when they were
Speaker 1: starving over Low Low Pass and no one thought to
Speaker 1: eat it. They thought about it. They ate over two
Speaker 1: dogs on the expedition, but they never ate this dog.
Speaker 1: No ship. Yeah, I had no idea about this dog. Jim,
Speaker 1: tell me about the color that they painted the dog.
Speaker 1: When we're done with this, I want to visit that.
Speaker 1: Does everybody have an answer? Go ahead and reveal your answers.
Speaker 1: We have Karin saying a new Foundland. We have Doug
Speaker 1: saying an American mix, Ak and Matt, Steve saying a
Speaker 1: blue tiger, blue tick, Jim saying in Newfoundland, Ross saying
Speaker 1: a wolfhound, Richie saying a hound, uh, Phil saying in Newfoundland,
Speaker 1: and Shawn saying a bloodhound. The correct answer is it
Speaker 1: was a Newfoundland named Semen. How do you guys not
Speaker 1: know this that I've got? That's right? A new Fie?
Speaker 1: How how do you spell that name? S E A
Speaker 1: M A N. Now, Steve, watch how this little tidbit
Speaker 1: ties the game together. On May fourteen, eighteen o five,
Speaker 1: Lewis and Clark had to perform surgery on an artery
Speaker 1: and Siemen's hind leg that was severed by beaver bite.
Speaker 1: My favorite Lewis and Clark, Francis Hunter speculates they would
Speaker 1: have used a three dollar and fifty cent tourniquet that
Speaker 1: they purchase from a pharmacy in Philadelphia to stop the bleeding.
Speaker 1: According to journal entry, Semen never went into shock and
Speaker 1: made a full recovery ten days later, tagged by a
Speaker 1: beaver taxed by a how coome That guy never comes
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Remember I said we should do that
Speaker 1: grinds getting there. I have a random question about three
Speaker 1: and fifty cent turn kids that adjusted for inflation, because
Speaker 1: that seems crazy. It identified it as an axle Turni kid,
Speaker 1: which I couldn't find anything about that online, so it
Speaker 1: must be something real special. Now I I'd seen it.
Speaker 1: Argued about what color Semen was and it said it
Speaker 1: said that in modern depictions of Semen, he's often black,
Speaker 1: because that's what a lot of modern Newfoundland's are. But
Speaker 1: if you look at the oldest paintings of Semen, he
Speaker 1: was often like white with brown spots or black spots.
Speaker 1: So what color is the Newfoundland in your book? Ours
Speaker 1: was black? I think something a little, but it was
Speaker 1: it was black. Did you get that one ross? No,
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone got an other. Jim. And one
Speaker 1: more thing. If you want to be well prepared for
Speaker 1: emergencies in the field, like Lewis and Clark, meat Eater
Speaker 1: is now selling a meat Eater Hunter Series acute trauma
Speaker 1: care Kit. It is everything you'd want in a trauma
Speaker 1: care kit, including a tourniquet, trauma shears, splint bandages, gauze
Speaker 1: and more. Is the cost three dollars and cents something
Speaker 1: like that. Roughly we are halfway through trivia. Looking at
Speaker 1: the leaderboard. We have Steve and Jim and Karin with
Speaker 1: four and then the rest of the crowd with roughly two.
Speaker 1: It's a barn burner. Question six. The topic is conservation.
Speaker 1: What state has the most game wardens? What state has
Speaker 1: the most game wardens? Oh? Man, this one, I'm making
Speaker 1: a wild here I can rationalize my wild ass. Guess
Speaker 1: what state has the most game wardens? Does everybody have
Speaker 1: an answer? Go ahead and reveal your answers. We have
Speaker 1: Karin saying Texas, Doug st Pennsylvania, Steve saying Missouri, Jim
Speaker 1: saying Texas, Ross Sant Pennsylvania, Richie saying Arizona, Phil sat Colorado,
Speaker 1: and Shawn Sant Texas. The correct answer is Texas. Texas
Speaker 1: has the most at four sixty, followed by New York
Speaker 1: at four hundred, North Carolina at three seventy, and California
Speaker 1: at three fifty. Ironically, despite North Carolina having the third
Speaker 1: most game wards in the country, as we discussed on
Speaker 1: a previous game of trivia, they ranked dead last in
Speaker 1: game warden salary. Can I say why I went Missouri? Please? No,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. He said, he was an educated guest.
Speaker 1: Let's let's hear the back they got that. They got
Speaker 1: that license plate tax, you know, the hell's pay for consation.
Speaker 1: So I thought maybe they were so flushed with money
Speaker 1: that we're able to stock up. But New York was second. Second. Wow,
Speaker 1: think about I was debating between Texas, Florida, and California
Speaker 1: just because of population. Question seventy topic is gear. What
Speaker 1: is the most purchased center fire rifle ammunition in America?
Speaker 1: What is the most purchased centerfire rifle ammunition in America?
Speaker 1: We're talking caliber here, correct? I feel like there's some Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's now, buddy, huh, you know this one. Everybody has
Speaker 1: an answer. It looks like go ahead and reveal your answers.
Speaker 1: We have Karin saying three o A, Doug saying thirty
Speaker 1: odds six, Steve saying to twenty three, Jim saying thirty
Speaker 1: odds six, Ross saying thirty odds six, Richie saying thirty
Speaker 1: odds six, Phil without an answer, and Sean saying the
Speaker 1: two three The correct answer is the two three. Remington
Speaker 1: that I was worried. The nuanced comes from our friends
Speaker 1: at Federal Premium as well as a number of other sources.
Speaker 1: The top five most sold rounds are two twenty three Remingtons,
Speaker 1: three O A Winchester, thirty odd six Springfield, thirty thirty Winchester,
Speaker 1: and to seventy Winchesters. So that's that's an order, that's
Speaker 1: in order. Y'all gave pretty relevant answers to twenty three dominates,
Speaker 1: so along with three O eight because it's also popular
Speaker 1: among blinkers. Yeah, that's that's so obvious. Once I saw
Speaker 1: Shawn's board. Question eight, the topic is biology. This next
Speaker 1: great question comes to us via Paul Province. If you
Speaker 1: think you have a questions right for Media Trivia, send
Speaker 1: it to Trivia at the media dot com. An animal
Speaker 1: most active at dawn and dusk is crepuscular. An animal
Speaker 1: most active at nighttime is nocturnal, and an animal most
Speaker 1: active at daytime is blank. An animal most active at
Speaker 1: don and dusk is crepuscular, most active at night is nocturnal,
Speaker 1: and an animal most active at daytime is blank. Quick writing,
Speaker 1: but it did look like it didn't look like confident writing.
Speaker 1: Everybody have an answer, Go ahead and reveal your answers.
Speaker 1: We have Karin saying, perky ha ha, Doug saying sonny uh,
Speaker 1: Steve saying diurnal, Jim saying diurnal, Ross saying awake, Richie
Speaker 1: saying diurnal. He gets diurnal. We have Phil saying not
Speaker 1: a vampire, and Sean saying diurnal. The correct answer is
Speaker 1: diurnal humans and motion Steve, Sean, Richie m humans and
Speaker 1: most other primates are considered diurnal. But this puts us
Speaker 1: in the minority when you zoom out a bit, because
Speaker 1: only about mammals also sleep at night. Me and gimber
Speaker 1: Neck connect. We have two questions left, and looking at
Speaker 1: the literal leaderboard, we have Steve and Jim with six
Speaker 1: right each, and then Sean and Krin with five right each,
Speaker 1: and the rest of us are the most of us
Speaker 1: are going to google. Question nine. The topic is public land.
Speaker 1: What federal agency has the most acres of public land?
Speaker 1: Now I would not accept Department of Interior. I'm looking
Speaker 1: for an agency within the Department of the Interior. Mm hmmm, damn.
Speaker 1: And then right, everybody have an answer? Steve, do you yeah?
Speaker 1: Go ahead and reveal your answers. We have Krin saying
Speaker 1: uh blm. So you're saying BLM, Doug saying US Forestry,
Speaker 1: Steve saying b LM, Jim saying b LM, Ross saying
Speaker 1: b LM, Richie saying National Parks, Phil saying b LM,
Speaker 1: and Shawn saying b LM. The correct answer is BLM.
Speaker 1: BLM has two hundred forty eight million acres, which is
Speaker 1: ten percent of all the land in the country. That's
Speaker 1: followed by the Forest Service at one hundred and ninety
Speaker 1: three million acres, US Fish and Wildlife Service at eighty
Speaker 1: nine million acres, and Park Service at eighty four million acres.
Speaker 1: I want to say that I wanted it to be forestry.
Speaker 1: We are onto our last question and we have Steve
Speaker 1: and Jim tied with seven and Seawan and Karin tied
Speaker 1: with six, so we could potentially have a four way
Speaker 1: tied for first place. The topic is fishing. If someone
Speaker 1: says they caught a limit of copper bellies, what popular
Speaker 1: game fish are they referring to? If someone says they
Speaker 1: caught a limit of copper bellies, what popular game fish
Speaker 1: are they referring to? A lot of pressure for four
Speaker 1: of you, Steve, Jim, Sean and Karin Karann are you nervous, Jim,
Speaker 1: are you nervous? Very nervous. I'm not a fish squeezer.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna lose because of brook trout in this question?
Speaker 1: Does everybody have an answer? Um, you're gonna come on,
Speaker 1: bet just you better write something down because you're playing
Speaker 1: the first place. Here, go ahead and reveal your answers.
Speaker 1: We have Karin with no answer, Doug saying carp Steve
Speaker 1: saying blue gill saying pumpkin seed. Steve says we call
Speaker 1: them rust bellies. Ross saying bass. Richie with no answer,
Speaker 1: Phil saying smallmouth. That's a good answer, Phil, It's not right.
Speaker 1: It's a good answer. Sean saying yellow perch. The correct
Speaker 1: answer is bluegill. Don't they hybridized with pumpkin seeds? That's close, Jim.
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm gonna give it to you, though,
Speaker 1: they're not saying. They were given this name because of
Speaker 1: the vibrant orange and yellow coloration you find on a
Speaker 1: bluegill's belly, which is most vibrant on males during the spawn.
Speaker 1: The copper belly moniker is most popular in the South,
Speaker 1: but according to Encyclopedia Britannica, other common nicknames from bluegill
Speaker 1: include blue sunfish, sunny sun perch, copper heads, bream brim
Speaker 1: and roach clowns called big old russ bellies. That's good too.
Speaker 1: I like that. Steve Winds meat Eater trivia donation. Have
Speaker 1: we donation. We're still sitting at a hunter box, still
Speaker 1: at a hondo. I think we should increase it. My donation.
Speaker 1: I would like my one their dollars to go to
Speaker 1: the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, which I'll point out is
Speaker 1: very serious about paying for the science on c w D.
Speaker 1: That's good, Rich, thanks for playing, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Oh one other thing too, because we talked about this
Speaker 1: a little bit in the past. Jim, can you give
Speaker 1: us a heads up on your boys progress from having
Speaker 1: been pretty banged up in a car wreck. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think my son Cody was in a head on collision.
Speaker 1: I'm back in early October. Both broken legs, badly shuttered arm.
Speaker 1: But he's got a positive attitude and he's he's going
Speaker 1: to rehab. He's now walking with with a walker and
Speaker 1: when he pulls it together, he's gonna go see Luke holmbs. Yes,
Speaker 1: he is, absolutely. Yeah. Right after the accident, they were
Speaker 1: they were planning to go to Luke Holms and and
Speaker 1: we weren't able to go. And then through Steve Um,
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna be able to let him go.
Speaker 1: When he gets better, what he's able to, he'll be
Speaker 1: able to go back and shotgun a beer with him.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but you know what, I bet it won't
Speaker 1: be as fast, speaking from experience, all right, by thanks
Speaker 1: for joining anything, I am I missing anything. No, have
Speaker 1: a good year. Making New Year's resolution. I don't know
Speaker 1: what should it be. I got one. I just came
Speaker 1: up in mind. I didn't thought about that before. What's that?
Speaker 1: Keep on keeping one man ALR everybody. Thanks