WEBVTT - Patriots Dynasty Doc Recap, Episodes 5 & 6 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.280 Some of the content in this podcast may not be 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:03.760 suitable for all audiences. 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:05.800 Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:10.200 And it's time for another episode of the Dynasty wrap 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:14.000 up show. Matt Smith and Indianapolis joined by Fred kersh 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.599 In Paul Pirillo in our studios back in Foxborough. The 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:20.840 ten Park documentary event The Dynasty New England Patriots is 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:26.000 streaming now exclusively on Apple TV Plus. Gentlemen, we're here 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:31.440 to talk about episodes five and six. In episode five, 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:36.239 did anybody else notice that they spent more time on 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:40.760 Moss's no catch on the Patriots final drive than the 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:45.639 scorned assante Samuel no interception on the Giants final drive? 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:46.720 I did notice that. 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:48.720 But before we get into it, Matt, You're at the 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.960 combine and I'm wondering, has any Patriots players gone up 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:53.840 to Elliott Wolf and say they want to be traded 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:57.680 or moved to California or you know, go to a 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:02.880 safe house or anything like that that's later they have not. Okay, 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:05.880 that episode six, we'll get into that, all. 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:08.200 Right, correct, but correct. 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:12.000 Yeah, Here's here's one of the things that I think 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.560 fans are going to love, and I can't say enough 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.360 about it. I wish, quite honestly, that there had been 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:22.600 more of it. I call it the Loser's Ring ceremony 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.000 that they showed at the very beginning of episode five 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:27.720 after the Patriots lost to the Giants. 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:28.679 In the Super Bowl. 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:30.720 Wonder what you guys thoughted that footage. 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:33.360 Yeah, I enjoyed it, and it's something that I was 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:38.120 aware of through you, and I share your sentiments. I 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:40.559 didn't see enough of it, you know, they only showed 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.120 you know, Bill's part. That to me, the money part 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.800 was Bill sort of explaining just how important it is 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:54.320 to unlike most years where he's preaching forget about last year. No, 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:58.120 do not forget about how hard it was for those 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.840 sixteen wins. Don't forget those sixty To know is you 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.640 forget the five and elevens. You've been through the five 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:06.280 and elevens and the seven and ninees. Those are the 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.720 ones you want to forget. This one takes some time 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.600 and remember what you guys accomplished, because it was pretty incredible. 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:15.639 I thought it was awesome, just you know, the behind 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:18.640 the scenes footage was was awesome to see that. But 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.800 I remember at the time, Paul, internally, there was a 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:23.160 lot of debate do you put up a. 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:25.520 Sixteen in O banner, right, and a lot it was split. 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.200 Not everyone agreed, like you do you know, you don't 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:31.280 do that, and you know the sixteen and oh one out, 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.480 and you know, it was good to see Bill telling 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.239 the team, you know, and he's he said it. You know, 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:39.160 I'm always a guy to move on. You know, it 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.839 doesn't really matter. But when you have sixteen and oh, 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.200 you don't forget that. You don't forget that. 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:47.240 Yeah, And I was one of the few because I 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.520 think it wasn't really split. I think most people were 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.120 against it. I had no problem with it, and I'm 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:54.080 not a big fan of the divisional you know. Yeah, 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.560 I grew up in Boston, you know, at the Boston 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.000 Garden and the Bruins had all the Adams Division titles. 0:02:59.280 --> 0:02:59.960 Those did nothing. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.600 Well, Matt's in the place of the home of the Division. 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.840 Absolutely, but you know, sixteen and oh isn't an Adam's 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:07.000 Division title, right. 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:09.200 Yeah. 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:11.720 At the risk of being the company guy, I will 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:15.400 send kudos to the Crafts, Robert and Jonathan who had 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.760 the foresight to say, we need to shoot this. It's 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:22.480 never been seen until this episode came out. Never footage 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.920 has never been seen before, and I think fans are 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.440 really really going to enjoy seeing it because you're getting 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.680 a scene behind the curtain that nobody's seen before. So 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:35.800 we move along until episode five, Brady goes down. There's 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.880 a lot of time spent on Brady's injury, how devastated 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.360 he was. And Paul, I want to ask you, because 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.480 you're the first person I heard talk about this, were 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:50.280 the seeds planted there in that episode that maybe that 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:54.480 Bill doesn't think you need a top tier quarterback in 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:58.720 order to win with how successful relatively speaking, the Patriots 0:03:58.720 --> 0:03:59.240 were that year. 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.400 Yeah, Look, you never know what's in a guy's mind, 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.800 in a person's heart without knowing for sure, right, Like, 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.480 it's my feeling from watching this part. And I did 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:11.840 think it was a little odd. Again, they spent so 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:16.040 much time on this season, and I thought it was 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.760 sort of throwing a bone to Bill, because I know 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:21.560 Bill's very proud of the fact that they didn't fall apart, 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:24.359 you know, for whatever that means. They went eleven and 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:28.800 five with Matt Castle. But I just I felt like 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:33.039 the commentary of that season was what an unbelievable job 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:37.440 by Bill. Bill's sort of proving that Tom Brady. You know, 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.039 one guy said it, I don't forget who that Tom 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.320 Brady's actually a system quarterback. That shows it. It was 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:46.159 nonsense and there was not the prevailing wisdom at the time. 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:49.720 And what I really had a problem with with this 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.320 was they sort of you know, and I understand that 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.520 Tom Brady and the Brady family may have felt like 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.839 this because Tom is maniacally competitive, right, and he did 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.920 know how he got his job. There was no talk 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:05.080 now of well Tom knows how he got his job, 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:07.240 so he wants to get back out that he may 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.839 have been feeling that, but I'm telling you there was 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.680 one hundred percent of people in New England that never 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:15.120 gave it a second thought. When Tom Brady's healthy again, 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:18.240 he will take over. Regardless of how Madcastle played very 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:20.760 well that year. He deserves a lot of credit for 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:24.120 playing well. He was never going to take Brady's job. 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.640 That was never like, there was no drama there, and 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.760 I think they tried to sort of insert it into this. 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:32.920 But I do think to answer Matt's point, Matt Matt's 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:39.000 question the over the top even Bill postgame that last one, 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:40.720 I wish we had a game next week. I think 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:42.680 it was the day after Prescotte. I wish we had 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:44.880 a game next week, but I'm awfully proud of this 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.600 team and what it's accomplished. And I thought that was 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:49.520 kind of a way for Bill to say, I'm awfully 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.760 proud of myself for not having this fall apart. And 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.400 I do wonder if that maybe set the stage for 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:57.520 a little bit of a riff like Tom sort of 0:05:57.560 --> 0:05:59.400 reading that, like, oh, you think you can just win 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:01.960 without me, Like, to me, there's a big difference in 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.920 five games. Yeah, sixteen and o to eleven and five 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.200 showed you just how great Tom Brady was. 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:11.520 I get I understand the director's choice in trying to 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.760 create that drama for the sake of storytelling, but you're right, 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.120 we were in the middle of it. Remember this is 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.320 a team that was sixteen and oh the year before, 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.040 not a lot of change the next year and they 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:28.440 were eleven and five, you know, so they lost five 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.640 more games than the year before with basically the same 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:33.400 because they didn't have Brady. 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.080 And they prefaced it all Matt by sort of before 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.400 they got into eight. You know, Tom when he talked 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.760 just how devastating that seven loss was, you know, and 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:44.880 he really, you know, it was it was just a 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.040 devastating loss for them. But he said, we looked at 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:50.000 the two thousand and eight year as a redemption year 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:51.800 for us. You know, we felt like we had the 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:53.960 same team, right, and it was going to be a 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:58.919 redemption year. So again, redemption years don't result in minus 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:03.839 five right in the win loss total. So again I 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.360 think it was I think it's admirable that they didn't 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.960 fall apart. Yeah, but they also didn't make the playoffs. 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.040 I thought the Brady interview coming off of the Super 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:15.120 Bowl loss was one of the most insightful things, and 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:18.240 I think fans will enjoy seeing just how you could 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:20.920 tell how beat up Brady was about that loss and 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:23.680 how it eats him still to this day. Just one 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.679 of the things on the you know, the Brady family. 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.280 And I think it was Tom Senior who mentioned when 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.440 he was talking about coach Belichick and he said, well, 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.560 you know, coach Belichick, if you're not around, out of side, 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:36.960 out of mind. And my question is when he said that, 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:39.600 is that really different from a lot of other coaches. 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:42.440 Isn't that generally the way it is when somebody's injured, 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:43.840 that you're out of side out of mind. 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:46.160 It definitely used to be. 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:51.560 You know, coaches didn't want injured players around. They would 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:53.640 tell him, you know, get lost, not in those way, 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.720 but you know, but lately though, you do see more 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.920 injured guys hanging out on the sideline. You know, Aaron 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:05.640 Rodgers of course is famously but that sentiment has kind 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:09.520 of changed. But you know, ten fifteen years ago, I'm 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:11.560 sure a lot of coaches said, listen, if you're out 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.440 for the season, go rehab, do what you have to do. 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:15.320 We'll see you next. 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.000 Thing, and real quick, I would just say that the 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.080 reason that that changed is because the IR rules have changed, 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.320 and now when you're on IR, you're not out of sight, 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:22.800 out of mind. 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:23.800 You could come back, right. 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:28.080 So you know, when Brady went on IR, he was 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:30.320 done for the year, no matter what happened. So obviously 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:32.160 he wouldn't have been able to come back anyway. But 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:35.160 now you go on IR in week one, if you're 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.280 healthy in week thirteen, you can play. That wasn't the 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:40.360 case then, So I do think it was out of sight, 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:42.240 out of mind for most teams. Man. 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.200 I think you're right, And it wasn't just a Bill thing. 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:48.960 Right, A new character was introduced in episode five, and 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:53.599 again the directors and the production crew there did it 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:57.200 in a very dramatic way with the dramatic pan and 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.720 the sight of Alex Guerrero. 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:04.920 Yeah, again this is this goes back to my theory. 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:06.480 And you guys know, you guys always make fun of 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:09.760 me because I always they always have these conspiracy theories 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:13.320 and you know, hidden meanings. I think this was if 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:15.440 you want to go back to the seeds of the 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:19.040 rift being sown, this is part of it. This gets 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.720 Guerrero into his life. McGinnis. Evidently, you know, hooks Brady 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:24.920 up with Alice Guerrero, he helped him with his rehab, 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.040 and I think therein you know that there's a conflict 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.840 as how this is going to happen. Right, Bill did 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:36.040 not appreciate Guerrero's presence, and Bill was, I think, help 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.680 bent on showing that he didn't need Brady to win, 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.480 and Brady, being the competitor that he was, didn't even 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:44.319 want to go on ir with a torn a cl 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:46.560 He wanted to stay out there. He will lobbied, yeah, 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:48.600 to stay out there and play. And I just feel 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:53.080 like all of these things sort of conspired to lead 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:53.560 to the rift. 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.840 And if you remember, like mass General was ready and 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.920 willing to do that surgery in Brady chose to go 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.240 to LA to have it done and then he gets 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.320 the infection. And I'm sure there was a lot of 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:09.120 eye rolling and headshaking within these walls of like, why 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:10.600 didn't you just stay here and get it done? 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:12.240 Why you have to go all the way to LA? 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.880 See what happened? So Matt, I want to give you 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:16.800 guys another plug. And I know you don't like when 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.760 we do this, but you know, again, all of these 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.200 stories we were sort of familiar with. We might not 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.800 know every detail, but we're familiar with it. The stuff 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.080 that's new is the footage that Matt's talking about and 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:29.800 a lot of the stuff that Matt and the crew shot. 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.240 And I thought there was some really good locker room 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:36.480 scenes in this season. And again it's no surprise because 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.280 it was sort of an ode to Belichick. But you know, 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.000 Bill flat out saying in ninety nine, the Rams lost 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:45.240 Trent Green and Kurt Wanner took him to the super Bowl. 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.560 You know, one we lost Drew Bledsoe and Brady took 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.400 us to the super Bowl. This saw on you, now, Castle, 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:53.839 you know like, I thought that was really interesting stuff 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:54.600 that I hadn't seen. 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:55.200 Matt. 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.400 You probably have, but I don't think it's been shown 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:00.880 publicly until this. I think fans will find some of 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.280 these interactions. And then even with him teasing uh Mad 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.240 after the Jets win. I know you haven't started the 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.319 game since the seventh grade, but you did today and 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:10.679 he gave him the game ball. I thought that was 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:11.200 good stuff. 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.240 The fact that Bill said that, you know, you know 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:18.040 the history part of it. Do you think in his 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:20.520 mind he thought they actually could go to the super Bowl? 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.720 With me, they were absolutely loaded. That team was stacked. 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.920 They were they were, But do you think Bill thought 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:28.280 that they could get to the super Bowl? 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:32.240 Probably not. But that's not how we. That's not how we, 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:36.000 That's not how he's like wired. He's always wired to 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:37.840 think he has a chance. And I think in his 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.960 mind they were a lot better than all one. Yeah 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:42.640 and oh one won the Super Bowl. 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:47.360 Matt, what do you think? I think, why not? 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:49.680 Why shouldn't they be able to win if they get 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:53.440 if I think he realized if they get competent, turnover 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.120 free football, play out of the quarterback with Moss and Welker, 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:00.640 you still have that jugger out of an offense going. Yeah, 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.040 I think he did think they had a chance to 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:04.800 go back to the super Bowl. But I want to 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.680 go back to one thing that I think Paul you 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.240 mentioned it. You said something along the lines of that 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.719 they threw a bone to Belichick. I think a lot 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:15.840 of the criticism that we've been seeing after the first 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:19.920 four episodes from fans from media is that they're out 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.200 to get Bill, that Bill is the villain in this 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:25.960 and I think in this episode, I would dispel that 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.400 notion right there because they think they I don't know 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:29.959 if it's there going out of their way, but they're 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.600 telling the story that how successful the team was that 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.080 year and that he helped keep it together with Brady 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:35.560 going down. 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.120 Yeah, that's why that's why I referred to it that way. 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.719 I agree with you. I thought this was the Bill episode. Yeah, 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:42.640 you know, the majority of the other ones that I've 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:44.480 seen not really been that way. 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:45.160 Yeah. 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.160 The other thing about this episode, episode five, they get 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.200 into the nine season a little bit. Yeah, and you 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.720 know there's that famous We've seen it before where at 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.000 the end of the season, Belichick's on the sideline with 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.920 Brady and he's saying to Brady, you know how frust 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.120 rating it is. He just can't get this team to 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.000 play the way they need to play. And the fact 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.319 that he's telling Brady that tells me that the rift 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:12.360 hadn't completely happened yet, you know, because you don't confide 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.240 in a guy who you know you're having trouble with 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.120 that way. And I think they were still in pretty 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:22.120 good terms in nine. And to me, that's one evidence 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.000 of that that Bill was willing to tell Brady, you know, 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.079 his innermost feelings about the team. 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.439 Yeah, and Matt, one thing that I thought was really 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.240 really good the way this this particular episode, episode five, 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.040 we want to talk about six two in a second. 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.719 I thought they did it really really well, Matt Hamichik 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.280 setting up the cliffhanger and this one so you wind 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.080 down the OH nine season, and it was disappointing. They 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.800 showed the aftermath of that Baltimore game they just weren't 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.080 good enough anymore. They had lost, you know, a lot 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.640 of veterans that were key parts, and they talk about 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.199 those and then they sort of get back to that 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.839 sort of pressure to always win and they got to 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.200 hit this draft and they the cliffhanger they set up 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.400 is obviously drafting Aaron Hernandez, and I just thought that 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:08.000 was not overly dramatic. I thought that was really really 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.720 well done, the way they sort of set the stage 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:14.160 for their mindset, you know. And I know it sounds 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.480 silly to go from four to nine without a Super 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.920 Bowl and feel pressure to win, but it was there 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:21.680 was pressure there, and I thought they did a great 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.240 job of sort of encapsulating that the way they set 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:25.120 that cliffhanger up. 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:25.440 Yep. 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:31.480 I think I think Hamichek does great cliffhangers in this series. 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:33.760 I think it's been a pretty constant theme throughout this 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:35.720 and I think it's one of the nice things. And 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.480 as a viewer, I think, oh wow, I want to 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:39.280 get to the next one. 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:39.760 Yeah. 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.960 So the next one, Paul, as you say, is episode six, 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:44.960 and it's the Aaron Hernandez episode. 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:45.560 Yeah. 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:49.840 And watching the episode with somebody yesterday who remain who 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:55.600 will remain nameless? And they couldn't believe the green screen 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.480 footage that they started the entire episode with, I think 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:03.040 that that was a network It was not an internal 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:07.280 person's voice. I think that was a networks person's voice. 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.320 As the networks are shooting green screen for the upcoming season. 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:12.960 That scene was unbelievable. 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.600 Yeah, I just I thought this this episode was you know, 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:20.920 out of you know, after the first one. This is 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:25.440 probably my next favorite, and not because of the subject 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.800 matter obviously, but it was chilling. Yeah, it was chilling 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:34.320 watching it, watching the smile, the personality that that Hernandez had, 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:38.760 knowing the demons that were clearly in his head. Yeah, 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:40.320 I thought they did a you know a good job 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:42.360 of sort of displaying that dichotomy. 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:45.120 What made this episode for me and we've I've saw, 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:49.320 we've seen the Hernandez documentary, We've seen all that before. 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.520 But what made this one was the interviews Dion Branch. 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.440 And Brandon Many Lloyd and. 0:15:55.760 --> 0:16:00.000 And Wes Welker. The interviews of people made this episode. 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:05.800 Three wide receivers in this episode were remarkable. They're compelling stuff. 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:07.520 Brandon Lloyd was really good. 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:08.240 Yeah. 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.640 So, Paul, I've heard you say in a couple of 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:15.560 these things, when you've been criticizing some of the episodes, 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.440 you say, well, I don't know that I learned anything. Now, 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:20.680 it's tough for somebody like you to learn anything. You 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:22.000 were at a front. 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:22.840 Row seat for this YEP. 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.360 So I ask you about this episode, did you learn 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.800 something that you didn't know about after watching this episode? 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:33.080 I did, and it's these three wide receivers knew, That's 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:33.720 what I learned. 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:35.840 They knew there was some or at least they said 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:36.640 they should have known. 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.320 There was some darkness there that they knew about, and 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.280 they brought to the attention and it seemingly fell on 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:46.360 deaf years. And I think it's easy after the fact 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.960 to say, you know, I think Michael Holly is interviewed 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.320 in the middle of this episode about he would leave 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.720 you some breadcrumbs, but you didn't think that at the time. 0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:01.840 You're thinking that in hindsight, Brandon Lloyd, Dion Branch and 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.720 Wes Welker are telling you at the time they were 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:08.960 concerned something's not right with this guy, and they brought 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:13.400 it to They couldn't understand. Welker had a remarkable, refreshing, 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:17.720 honest when he was walking around as a as a rookie. 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.600 He's running around telling everybody he's the best part returner 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.560 on the team, and he's joking around and Bill's laughing, 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.560 and Welker said, I just don't get it, Like what 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:28.960 what is it about this kid, right, what? Why is 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:30.480 he get Why are you doing that? Why are you 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:31.439 letting this kid do this? 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:32.000 Right? 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:34.160 That's he's telling you what he thought at the time, 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.960 not in retrospect. And I just thought that those. 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:44.080 Three Why does he why does he love this guy 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.880 so much? That's the line, that's the line, I thank 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.480 you love this guy so much? Oh my goodness. I 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.400 mean when I heard that, I was going, Now, there's honesty. 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:55.640 There's real honesty there. 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.760 Do you think any you know, and again Bill's not 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.600 gonna talk about it, but do you think Bill's relationship 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.199 with urban Meyer had a little bit of a reason 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.040 about why he treated Hernandez the way he did. 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:10.879 He knew what was going on, He knew what was 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:11.520 going on. 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:16.520 But I think they felt that, you know, eventually it'll 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:17.440 sort itself out. 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:20.679 But man, he was good. He was good. He was 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:21.280 really good. 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:23.240 But so was a lot of guys who were rookies, 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.200 and Bill didn't treat them the way. He didn't let 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:28.719 them get away with what he let Hernandez get away with. 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:30.480 I don't think he let Gronk get away with what 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:32.399 he let her Nandas get away. That's what I'm saying 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:35.639 and I wonder if it is. I do think that's 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:37.920 a very interesting point you bring up about Urban Meyer. 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.879 I think Urban probably felt like he had an idea 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:45.080 of what made Hernandez tick. You know, they go through 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.840 the story of how they brought him up to get 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:49.920 him out of New Britain as a seventeen year old, 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.199 and that was chilling to me because my son's going 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:56.480 to turn seventeen next week and next month rather and 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:01.119 just to sort of think about him going down to 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:05.639 Florida to start off on his college football career, like, 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:09.320 I couldn't even fathom that right, let alone with the 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.840 family life that he was driving behind. Yeah, so I 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.560 thought that was another really powerful scene. 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:21.760 You're listening and watching to the Dynasty recap show wrap 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:25.480 up show, Matt Smith, Paparello and Fred Kersh, there was 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:29.399