1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 3 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: and Chuck's on the line. Jerry's here too, and we're 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: about to get jiggy with it. Shakespeare, Can I carve 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: out this out of the gate? I guess so. The 6 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: more we dug into this, you know, I was an 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: English major. We talked very briefly when I was in 8 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: college about Shakespeare's authorship, and I thought, hey, this would 9 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: be a fun, little, semi easy episode. And the more 10 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: we dug into it, the more this onion unfolded, This 11 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: bloom and onion unfolded, Layer by Crispy Delicious Layer. For 12 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: all of our Australian listeners, that's what we think you 13 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: guys eat every night, every night. Uh, to the point 14 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: where I was almost like, you know, is this a 15 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,959 Speaker 1: two parters? I mean, you could probably do a ten 16 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: part episode on this. Oh yeah, it's so dense. So 17 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: I just want to caveat this for people that know 18 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: a lot about shakespeare authorship and saying this is a 19 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: pretty broad overview of the high points of his authorship 20 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: being questioned, because it is dense. Baby, It's the kind 21 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: of thing that like, um, extremely intelligent people take on 22 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: as their like lifelong hobby. It's like that, we're like, 23 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: we'll just bust it out in a few days, It'll 24 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: be fine. Yeah, you know, like how some people are 25 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: like they they research World War two submarine warfare and 26 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: know everything about It's along the same lines, but it's 27 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: even bigger. There's so many people involved, and each side 28 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: is like, you're so naive to the other. And yes, 29 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: it's true, like we could, we could turn this into 30 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: a teen part series, but I think we've got a 31 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: handle on it enough to present it. I feeling okay 32 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: about it. And then the other thing that sticks out 33 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: for me, Chuck, is this is one of the few 34 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: things I've ever I'm across like this that I am 35 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: like truly agnostic about. I do not have an opinion 36 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: one way or the other. I don't know if I 37 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,839 Speaker 1: do either. Actually, like it's not like I don't care, 38 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: That's not what I'm saying, Like, I genuinely can see 39 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: both sides. And the other thing about it is, the 40 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 1: more you dig into it, the more you realize, oh, 41 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: neither side actually has really good evidence to support their claim. 42 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: It's all just they have to get so granular that 43 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: it really quickly, um, goes into the world of conspiracy 44 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: theories pretty quickly. Yeah. I saw this video of a guy, uh, 45 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: this wonderful gentleman who knows a lot about it, that 46 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: said like, and here's the golden bullet, which proves once 47 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: and for all, and he made his case and I 48 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: was like, no, no no, no, that didn't really prove it 49 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: once and for all in my opinion, Yeah, for sure, 50 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: because both sides do things like they get into biographical 51 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: readings where they're trying to find clues within the text 52 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: or you know, parallels to his life for that kind 53 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: of thing. And once that starts, it's like, okay, you 54 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: guys are you've just completely left the world of objectivity. Yeah. Uh. 55 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: So what we're talking about, um, if you haven't guessed 56 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: by now, is this idea that has been around since 57 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: at least the mid eighteen hundreds maybe before, about the 58 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: question of whether or not William Shakespeare was the sole 59 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: author of all of his works. And this is Shakespeare 60 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: from Stratford on the Avon, like that that gentleman that 61 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: we know became an actor, uh and you know writer, Uh, 62 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: whether or not he was the sole author whether or 63 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: not he was a front for some other authors for 64 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: some of the works. Some people say he didn't write 65 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: any of them. Some people said it was various women 66 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: who weren't allowed to write things at the time. Uh, 67 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: there are I saw sixty six candidates over the years 68 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: have been put forward. Oh really, so there there you 69 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: have it. Uh, somewhere between sixty six and eight something 70 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: of I know, we haven't been accused of writing any 71 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: of Shakespeare's work. I don't think so. I didn't come 72 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: across that in my research. But it's an interesting literary 73 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: I don't even know if I want to call it 74 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: a mystery, because some people just say, like, no, I mean, 75 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 1: of course he wrote it, and he was these outsized personalities, 76 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: the most famous of the famous are conspiracies are drawn 77 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: to them. Elvis is still alive, Marilyn Monroe was murdered. 78 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: Like that happens when you are, you know, one of 79 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: the biggest icons in your field quite often. So some 80 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: people say that's just that's all that it is. In 81 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: addition to that, there's a a lack of biographical documentation 82 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: that he actually did write those plays. And I think 83 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: that that's also what allows for people to say, you know, well, 84 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: do we really know or that he didn't write them, Like, 85 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: there's just it was a time, you know, in the 86 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 1: fift dreids where there in sixteen hundreds, whether it just 87 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: wasn't a ton of great preserved information and we're going 88 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: to talk about a lot of that. So we do 89 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: know that William Shakespeare did live. He was from, like 90 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: you said, Stratford on Avon. It was at the time 91 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: about a two to three day journey from London, about 92 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: a hundred something miles I think, and um, he definitely 93 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,799 Speaker 1: did live. He definitely did exist. That's not a question 94 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: because we do have documentary evidence that this person live 95 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: from uh fifteen sixty four to sixteen sixteen, about fifty 96 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,799 Speaker 1: two years and depending on when you placed his birthday, 97 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: maybe fifty two years on the nose, So we know 98 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: he existed. Again, what's an issue what's being questions whether 99 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: that man William Shakespeare from Stratford on Avon, who went 100 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: on to become an actor, who went on to become 101 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: a producer, who worked with the in the Globe theater um, 102 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: whether he was the author of the plays we consider 103 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: written by Shakespeare. That's what's that question. Yeah, so like 104 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: he's said, he was a real dude. Uh. He came 105 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: from a family that was I mean I kind of 106 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: read it as a little bit in middle class. They 107 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:11,799 Speaker 1: certainly were not like upper class nobility types. His father 108 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: was a was a glover. He wore h hell, I 109 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: guess he wore gloves too, but he made gloves. Allow 110 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: me to demonstrate, be pretty weird if he didn't. Uh, okay, 111 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: I won't even wear his own gloves, but he produces 112 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: very very fine gloves for well to do people. Um, 113 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: but he did achieve some Um, I guess it worked 114 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: his way up the social chain a little bit because 115 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: eventually he would serve as what's sort of like a 116 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: mayor uh in Stratford. And again, while not nobility like, 117 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: they were fairly well regarded as people. Right, So, um, 118 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: we don't know for certain, but there's a pretty good 119 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: there's a much better um chance than not that because 120 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: of his father's position in town, because they had some money. 121 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: Like you said, they middle class. He um almost certainly 122 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: would have been educated at the grammar school at Stratford. 123 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: So what most people think is that that William Shakespeare 124 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: was educated until about the age of thirteen, and he 125 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: would have learned things like Latin, he would have learned history. Um, 126 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: he would have learned some classic literature. He definitely would 127 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: have been exposed to stuff that whoever wrote Shakespeare's plays 128 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: would would go on to expound on. Um. So he 129 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: definitely was I I can't say that. That's the thing, Like, 130 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: you really have to be careful what you say about this. 131 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: I was about to say, so he definitely was educated. 132 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: We don't know that he was. This is all just 133 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: a supposition, but it's a pretty good bat. It's a 134 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: good supposition that he actually was educated. Yeah, and all this, 135 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: you know, the reason that's important is all of this 136 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: kind of comes back later, as some people say, proof 137 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: that he may not have written this stuff because like 138 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: how could it? And one of the main arguments used 139 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: many times is how could a kid who came from 140 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: here have known about these military military exploits and the 141 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: Elizabethan Court and all these different languages and all this 142 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: high falutin stuff that he wrote about. So, uh, it's 143 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: important to, you know, talk about his education. And it 144 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: seems like he was likely educated pretty well until thirteen, 145 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: which you know, I'm not even sure if that's earlier 146 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: late as far as the time period goes, do you 147 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: know if that was like kind of generally it for kids, 148 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: it was it was in the middle because he could 149 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: have just as easily not been educated at all, right 150 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: of course, but he also didn't go on to Cambridge 151 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: or Oxford to um to extend his studies, so he 152 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: was in there in the middle. They you think he 153 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: was probably educated, not highly educated, but also not you know, uneducated. 154 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: That's that's the key, And that if if there was 155 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,719 Speaker 1: evidence he had not gone to school, I think that 156 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: the anti Shakespeare UM people would have a real like 157 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: marking their favor. But he has just enough education that 158 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: you can make the case like, no, like this guy, 159 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: this guy learned about this stuff already and he could 160 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: have known about it. And you know, when you had 161 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: imagination and natural talent, did you come up with Shakespeare conceivably? Yeah? Uh. 162 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: He got married to Anne Hathaway. Um, you know, go 163 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: ahead and insert Anne Hathaway joke there. You know she's 164 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: a real actor, right, sure, Yeah, Devil Wears Pradac and 165 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 1: Princess Diaries. He was in inception No, No, was she interstellar? Yes, 166 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 1: she did a stellar job. An interstellar Come on? Uh? 167 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: They got married, um, when he was quite a bit younger. 168 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: She was twenty six, he was eighteen. She was pregnant, 169 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: which is probably a little unusual for the time. They 170 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: had a daughter named Susannah, and then had twins, boy 171 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 1: and a girl twin. And the boy uh named him Net, 172 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: not Hamlet, but him Net Yeah, which apparently they've never 173 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: turned up another use of that name in and the 174 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: at the time proof mhm Uh. He was eleven years 175 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,719 Speaker 1: old when he died, uh, And that kind of comes 176 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: into play later on as well. Um. And then there's 177 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: about a you know, from five to about fifty two, 178 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: there's about a seven year gap where we don't know 179 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: a lot about what was going on with Shakespeare. Uh. 180 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 1: And then he pops up, which a lot can happen 181 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: in seven years. Again not trying to sway people one 182 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: way or the other, but you can certainly learn a 183 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: lot in seven years if you have some big life experiences. 184 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: But he pops up in London, and again, as far 185 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: as the record go goes, and you know, keep in mind, 186 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: a lot of this record before he was known in 187 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: his lifetime as an author, was you know, just kind 188 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: of not flimsy, but just not a lot of stuff 189 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: like various little lawsuits and mortgages and sort of banking 190 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: records and stuff like that, right, yeah, yeah, And and 191 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: also I mean, like that's that about as much documentation 192 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: as you would be able to come up with on 193 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: most people. And you could make a case that there's 194 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: more documentation on Shakespeare than most other people who weren't 195 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: nobility of his era. And that's that's because there's been 196 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: so much scholarship and study and research into his life 197 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: that they've turned up, you know, as much as they can. 198 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,719 Speaker 1: But what they've turned up only amounts to about five 199 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: hundred different pieces of um documentation of one form or another. Right. 200 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: Uh So one of those pieces of documentation, uh in 201 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,719 Speaker 1: Early On in London is a pamphlet written by Um 202 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: generally believed to be written by this guy named Robert Green. 203 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: There were some other people that could have possibly written it, 204 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: but it's called Green's Groatsworth of Wit. And there's a 205 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: line where he references Shakespeare in it, uh in a 206 00:11:53,760 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: contemporaneous fashion that, right, doesn't matter where he kind of 207 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: takes a shot out of He says, talks about Shakespeare, 208 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: says there's an upstart crow. Uh in his own conceit 209 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: the only shake seine in a country, which kind of 210 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: translates into he kind of thinks he's the only Shakespeare right, 211 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: like he thinks he's all that and um, it should 212 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: be noted also as far as the thievery that in 213 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: Asop's Fables, crows would steal the feathers of others. So 214 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: the people in the um, I don't want to say 215 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: anti Shakespeare, but the people say that he might not 216 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: have written these things. Says this is a big clue, 217 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: and saying that he might have stolen some of these things. 218 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: That's why he's referred to as a crow by this 219 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: other guy. Yeah. But in that that um, that uh quote, 220 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: he says, the upstart crow is beautified with our feathers, 221 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: and he's a playwright. So the pro Shakespeare people, you 222 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: call them the pro Stratford group. Um, they suggest that 223 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: what what he's, what Green is talking about is he's 224 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: he's poking fun at a common actor who is deigning 225 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: to even attempt to write plays, which you know, among 226 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: playwrights is far more important than acting. Anybody can act, 227 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: but it really takes something to to write a play. 228 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 1: At least that's what they thought at the time, and 229 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: um that he's taking a shot at him for that. Yeah, 230 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: and we should point out that being an actor back 231 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: then and being a part of the theater was not 232 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: like it is today. It wasn't some uh revered position. 233 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: It was sort of you know, body plays and common 234 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: people were into this kind of thing, So it wasn't 235 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: when he says he was just an actor. That's a 236 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: pretty big disk, right. So the last thing that we have, 237 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: I guess, the last documentation, although there's other stuff that's 238 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: been turned up. They m they did archaeological expeditions on 239 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: his house. I think his house has been um under 240 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: ownership of a public trust since like the nineteenth century, 241 00:13:55,559 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: and um they've they've carried out archaeological um examination since 242 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: of it. And they found that he went back and 243 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: forth between London and Stratford. Um. They so they know 244 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: stuff about him like that. But as far as like 245 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: documentation goes, the last piece of documentation we have comes 246 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: in sixteen sixteen, which is his will that he wrote 247 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: and then a few months later he died and the 248 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: last I guess, the last last piece of documentation is 249 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: his tombstone, which in and of itself is curious because 250 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: his tombstone contains a curse on it but not his name. Yeah, 251 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: is that the one uh with the quote, Yeah, it's 252 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: a curse. He's saying like, don't dig me up or 253 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: you're gonna be cursed. Yeah, it's his good friend for 254 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: jesus sake, forbear to dig the dust and closed here. 255 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: Blessed be the man who spares these stones, and cursed 256 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: be he who moves my bones. Uh. Some people point 257 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: to that as poor writing and saying, well, Shakespeare was 258 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: a great writer, would never written this kind of shabby curse, 259 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: and other people say, like, who said Shakespeare even wrote that? 260 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: Necessarily this This is a good instructive example of like 261 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: kind of the back and forth between the people, Right, 262 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: this is terrible writing. Who said Shakespeare wrote it? And 263 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: then the anti Shakespeare crew says, well, of course he 264 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: wrote it, because who else would just not think to 265 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: put his name on his own tombstone? And the other 266 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: ones just put their head in their hands and just 267 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: start crying, and it just goes downhill from there. But 268 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: that's a really good example of like the the just 269 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: kind of like the people will jump on any single 270 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: thing that they possibly can and often interpret it one 271 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: way or the the other. So one thing, one single thing, 272 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: provides evidence for both sides. It's that kind of yeah, totally. UM. 273 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: Another thing that people point to is the fact that 274 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: of you know, we we don't have a lot of 275 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: like letters and papers and things like that because his 276 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: uh family line h ended in six seventy I think 277 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: uh he had a granddaughter, Elizabeth Barnard, that died without 278 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: bearing children, So most of his stuff basically lost as 279 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: far as family possessions and things like that. UM. People 280 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: do point to the will at times and say, well, 281 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: in his will, you know he leaves certain things, but 282 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: like there's never any mention of any manuscripts, um. And 283 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: and again this is all like it's a little weird maybe, 284 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: but none of this is proof um. And you know 285 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: through the personal records that we do have in those 286 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: five references, like none of them really reference him like 287 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: manuscripts and him writing things. Right. That's what's most compelling 288 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: to me is that when you put together the um 289 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: documentation about his life that we know, it's clear he's 290 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: involved in the theater, he's an actor. We get that. 291 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: That's that comes through loud and clear. What doesn't come 292 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: through isn't documented at all, is him as a writer. 293 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: And that that thing about the will, the fact that 294 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: if you look at the wills and um and bequeathments 295 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: of other writers of the time, um, you can find 296 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: evidence that they were writers. They like leave books to 297 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: other people that um there um they they leave unfinished 298 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: manuscripts that stay in the family uh for for generations, 299 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: and um it is very curious. His will is very curious. 300 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: But the fact that his personal stuff was just lost 301 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 1: to history because his granddaughter was the end of the 302 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: family line, that actually holds up because other um great 303 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: authors of say the same major of any age. A 304 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: lot of the reason that their personal effects and papers 305 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: are still still around is because their family home was 306 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 1: passed down from generation to generation to generation, and there 307 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: was a long enough period of time for the importance 308 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: of that writer to become clear. And so other people 309 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: came in and said, can we have your great great 310 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: great grandfather's personal effects, um, because we want to put 311 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 1: them in this museum. There's enough time. There wasn't enough time. 312 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: There's only seventy years between the death of Shakespeare and 313 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: the end of his family line, and he didn't become 314 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: widely popular until the I think middle of the eighteenth century, 315 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: so he was kind of a victim of that and that. 316 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: But both of those to me provide really good evidence 317 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: for why there is a documentation of his writing. You know, yeah, absolutely, 318 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: UM and the will and by the way, we uh 319 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: The Atlantic has a great, great, pretty deep dive article 320 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: as they do on this, which provided a lot of 321 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: the supplementary information that we got, um, but by Elizabeth Winkler, 322 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: great read UM. One of the things that Winkler points out, 323 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: and other people who point out on the will as well, 324 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: it's like Shakespeare wrote a lot about um music and 325 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: I think there were three hundred musical terms, and all 326 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: of his plays mentioned of twenty six musical instruments. And 327 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: like in his will he didn't he didn't even have 328 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: a loot to pass down to anybody um and like 329 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: you said, didn't have books even like a library that 330 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: he wanted to give. And you know, again, this is 331 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: not proof necessarily necessarily of anything, but it's all of 332 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: this stuff has added up over the years to enough 333 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: for people to arise to like get suspicious about it. 334 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: I think exactly, you want to take a break a breather, 335 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,199 Speaker 1: I guess you could call it. Yeah, let's take a 336 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: let's take a breather, let's take five. Uh. One thing 337 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: that Ed who helped us put this together mentions that 338 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: I wanted to get your to on it. I didn't 339 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: really think it had a whole lot to do with it. 340 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: One way or the other was all of the various 341 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: misspellings of Shakespeare's name over the years. Uh. He would 342 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: sign it in different ways, he would abbreviate it in 343 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: different ways. There are documents with I mean, it looks 344 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:22,360 Speaker 1: like fifteen different ways of spelling Shakespeare, everything from shacks 345 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: with an ex peer, uh, two spears and something you 346 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: would jab somebody with. Uh, It's misspelled all over the place. 347 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: And I just kind of took that as you know, 348 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: people misspelled things a lot back then. There weren't you know, 349 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 1: there weren't necessarily records that you could go look at 350 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 1: very easily, so you might just take a guess at 351 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: how to spell a name and then it was on 352 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: the record. And so I didn't really think that factored 353 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: in much, did you, I didn't. And the impression I 354 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: have is that all the different spellings are easily explained 355 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,959 Speaker 1: away from just the era, Like you just said, and 356 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 1: that the people who clamp onto that are actually looking 357 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: into him just to find like hidden naming and codes 358 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: to So I think, like the different spellings of the 359 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: names is um, it's about a Yeah, it's about as 360 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: big a boon doggle as you're gonna find in the 361 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: in the Shakespeare authorship argument, I think. All right, so 362 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 1: we'll cast that aside. Well, hold on, before we do, 363 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: I want to point out my favorite abbreviation, which one 364 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: I think, Well, let me look, I bet you I 365 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: know which one. But go, okay, put it, put it 366 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 1: back in the deck. Yeah, it's back in the deck. 367 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: Okay it is WILLM shack P. Yeah, that's the one. 368 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: It stands out pretty blatantly s h A k P. 369 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: I love it. Check hello Willem. Check. It's not a 370 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: really good hotel check in name, but it's still worth mentioning. 371 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: I think that's pretty good. Um. So, like we mentioned 372 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 1: sort of what's at the root of a lot of 373 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: these theories is uh, what ed I think rightly calls elitism, 374 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: which is, how could this guy, even you know, educated 375 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: up to thirteen, how could he have known about all 376 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: this stuff? How could he have known about military exploits. 377 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: And you know, if you read Shakespeare's plays, which if 378 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: you're an English major you have to read a lot 379 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: of them, there there's a lot going on in these 380 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: plays about a lot of different stuff. He didn't write 381 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: about just kind of one kind of thing. So it 382 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: implies like a really deep breadth of knowledge about a 383 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: lot of things, and not just different things as it 384 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: relates to England, different things, as it relates to entirely 385 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: different lands, Like think about where a lot of his 386 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: stuff takes places in Italy. Um And, as far as 387 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: anyone knows, Shakespeare didn't go to Italy. Although remember there's 388 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: that lost year eight year period they call him the 389 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: Lost Years. It's entirely possible he went to Italy during 390 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: that time. It's also just as possible that he didn't 391 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: go to Italy during that time. We just don't know. 392 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: But that is something that really stands out. And yes, 393 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: there is a tremendous amount of elitism and classicism among 394 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: some of the um anti Shakespeare group, but I think 395 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: that that is I think that dismisses a lot of 396 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: their points out of hand, and they do have some 397 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 1: really good points. They're not just cranks and crackpots, like 398 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: they have some pretty good evidence. You can make a 399 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: case at least as good evidence that um as the 400 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 1: pro Shakespeare people um. But the upshot of it is 401 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: really kind of a compliment. They're saying, these plays are 402 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: so good, that Shakespeare's arguably the greatest writer who ever lived. 403 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: He has such a crazy imagination, he's so funny, he 404 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: has such an extensive vocabulary, such an amazing grasp of 405 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: the human condition. Could it really all have been written 406 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: by this man from at the time the country, who 407 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 1: was educated up to thirteen, who came from the middle class, 408 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: who may or may not have ever traveled out of England? 409 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: How is that even possible? Are people born that gifted? 410 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: That's ultimately if you want to go beyond the classicism 411 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: and the elite. That's really what their argument boils down to. Yeah, 412 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: I agree. And if you if you don't know a 413 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: lot of Shakespeare, have never really read a lot yourself, 414 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: and you think like you're sort of in that camp, 415 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: like I mean, this is kind of overrated, Like this guy, No, 416 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: these plays are brilliant, and uh, there's a reason why 417 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: they still make contemporary movies based on Shakespeare's plays or 418 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: inspired by Shakespeare's plays. Uh, it's because they were all 419 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: genuinely brilliant. It was great, great stuff. And what you 420 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: need is a really good teacher to kind of walk 421 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: you through it because it's it's tough to read. And 422 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: we had, um, we had some good ones at Georgia 423 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 1: University of George. I had one. I can't remember his name. God, 424 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: I can picture him in my head. He was so great. 425 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: Probably someone know it was WILLM. Shack shack pe Um. 426 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: I wish I could remember his name. I bet you 427 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: someone will write in in the uh mid nineties, who 428 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: the great players harpsichord? Oh? Well no, I had a 429 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 1: classics professor who played the harpsichord. Yeah, this was you know, 430 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: you had to take Shakespeare one in two. Those were 431 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: the only required English classes as a as an English major, 432 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: so that kind of shows the importance. But what he 433 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: did was he sattised down and we read the plays 434 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: out loud in class, and after every you know, short bit, 435 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: he would say, well, here's what's going on, and here's 436 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: what he's saying. Man, you were very lucky. Yeah. And 437 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: once you once you hear that and you're like, oh, 438 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: these are very contemporary stories and that's why they still 439 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: carry such weight today is because they were brilliant stories, 440 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,239 Speaker 1: but stories that were very relatable even now. It's not 441 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: it's not high falutin stuff. It's just it was written 442 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: at a time where it seems that way. Yeah, yeah, exactly, 443 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: because we don't really speak in you know, Renaissance English anymore, 444 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: so it seems it might as well be Greek to us. Um. 445 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: But yeah, it was intended for common audiences. Like the 446 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: average person would laugh or cry at those at those plays. 447 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: And I think also, like really kind of support at 448 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: your point that four hundred years later, those plays can 449 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: still make people today laugh and cry like they still 450 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: hold up. I guess what you're saying. And um, have 451 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: you ever heard of Sister Wendy. No, she is, she's 452 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: a nun. I don't believe she's still with us. And 453 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: I think in the nineties she made this series of 454 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: videos where she just went around the museums around the 455 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: world and explained paintings to you in a way that 456 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: I would love to find a Sister Wendy of Shakespeare. 457 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's somebody out there, but you could do 458 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: a lot worse to of killing several hours watching Sister 459 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: Wendy explained paintings because she was she had like a 460 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 1: natural gift at just not only understanding what she was 461 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: looking at, but explaining it really understandably. I love that, 462 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: And I think in Sister Wendy's case and my professor 463 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: shack By, it's it. It comes from a place of um. 464 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: They have such great admiration and they want to They 465 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 1: really want people to understand this stuff. Who might ordinarily 466 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: go like, well, I don't get it. I don't get 467 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: paintings like this, or I don't get places like this art. 468 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: Uh So should we get in speaking of art? Great segue? 469 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: Uh should we get into this mess of the The 470 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 1: bust of Shakespeare? Yeah, I mean it's another It's very 471 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: much like his tombstone, where people are like it means this, No, 472 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: I means that, you know. Yeah. So there's a bust 473 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: an effigy of Shakespeare inside the church there in Stratford. 474 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: And there's been a lot of controversy over this thing 475 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: because part of it is not necessarily like was he 476 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: the author, although it does play into that, but sort 477 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: of like what what did he look like? And how 478 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: do we know that's what he looked like? Like? We've 479 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: all seen the picture. Uh, and there's like this one 480 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: painting and this one bust, and that's kind of where 481 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: everything comes from. And some people say this was done 482 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: after he was dead, like, we really don't know that 483 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: that's what he looked like. Um, I think just a 484 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: couple of years ago, this professor and expert made a 485 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: pretty good case that beyond most reasonable doubt that it 486 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: was actually done. I think she said it was highly likely. 487 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: Professor Orlan said it's highly likely that it was done 488 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: while he was alive, and that he commissioned it because 489 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: she thinks she knows who did the bust and that 490 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: that person lived near him and was a regular at 491 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: the globe and kind of put all these clues together. 492 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: But other people, some people say it was his dad, 493 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: uh and not him because of this whole sack of 494 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: grain argument. Yeah. This so there there was an etching 495 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: that was made of the bust within some period of 496 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: time after the bust was erected, but before it was altered. 497 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: So the bus has definitely been altered. And it looks 498 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: like one way you can interpret this. This thing at 499 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: the bottom, this puffy thing that's that that's at the 500 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: hands of the bust the effigy um as a sack 501 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: of grain. I don't know if it were a sack 502 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: of grain, why anyone would ever presented in that position. 503 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense. And so right, so what 504 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: the the anti Shakespeare, anti Strapford people are saying is like, yeah, 505 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: it's his dad, It's it's not him um, or if 506 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: it is Shakespeare, he was known for his grain carrying skills, 507 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: not his writing skills. And the pro strap For people 508 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: are like, don't be ridiculous. This is obviously a pillow, 509 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: and at some point somebody did revise the bus, so 510 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: it is unequivocally a pillow, like there's just no way 511 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: to to mistake it. And it's not so much a 512 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: pillow as it is like a hand rest for him 513 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: to write on, because he's got a piece of paper 514 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: on it and a quill in his other hand. But 515 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: the the anti Shakespeare people jump on and say, like, 516 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: see it was altered to fit this um to cover 517 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: up this conspiracy later on, yeah, exactly, and and that 518 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: quill has been stolen and replaced I think so many 519 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,479 Speaker 1: times over the years that now I don't know if 520 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: it currently has the quill or if it has the 521 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: quill and it's now behind glass. Oh that could that's 522 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: a good way to get around. And I'm not really sure, 523 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: but you know, that became a you know, obviously it's 524 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: something you could just snatch of his hand, and you've 525 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: got Shakespeare's quill on your on your door. Speaking of 526 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: Um being snatched, apparently that curse on his tombst didn't 527 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: work because they did a scan of it UM on 528 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: the four anniversary of his death and found that at 529 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: least his skull was missing, if not all of his remains. 530 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: Oh really yeah, and that interesting. So somebody out there 531 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: has Shakespeare's skull in their personal collection. It's probably Rosenkrantzer Guildenstern. Uh, 532 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: great Shakespeare joke. There's some people out there that were like, 533 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: nailed it. Good. Another thing, as far as evidence goes, 534 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: is UM the first folio, which is I think it 535 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: was the first collection that they put in print of 536 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: all of Shakespeare's plays, including UM eighteen that had never 537 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: been in print before. And there was a I guess 538 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: it was it a forward written by a guy named 539 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: Ben Johnson, who was arrival of Shakespeare's He was kind 540 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: of known as a jealous Um sort of argumentative guy, 541 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,239 Speaker 1: but he calls Shakespeare the Swan of Avon and as 542 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: sort of very laudatory in this forward. But I think 543 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: you found stuff later on where he was kind of 544 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: like I had my fingers crossed the whole time kind of. Yeah. 545 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: So the pro Stratford people who believe Shakespeare Shakespeare say, look, man, 546 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: this guy was known as a rival, a friendly rival, 547 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: but a real rival, really critical, like had biting, biting 548 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: criticism and sense of humor, and also was not one 549 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: to just be like um to to just bow to 550 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: no nobility, your privilege, your wealth or status. Right. So 551 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: if this guy is saying that Shakespeare the Swan of Avon, 552 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,479 Speaker 1: which places this man at effort on Avon because Ben 553 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: Johnson is calling him that, that proves that Shakespeare was Shakespeare. 554 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: The anti Shakespeare camp says, like you said, Ben Johnson 555 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: had his fingers crossed the whole time, and that really 556 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: what he was doing was providing cover for this larger, 557 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: essentially conspiracy of people who actually wore Shakespeare. He was 558 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: blending his his renown to it. Um. Neither one really 559 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: makes sense. I mean, unless Ben Johnson had like a 560 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,719 Speaker 1: complete change of heart. Um, it just doesn't quite add up. 561 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: But then also the idea that he he would provide 562 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: that cover for a group of noble people, UM seems 563 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: unlikely as well too. Yeah, I agree. One of the 564 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: first public doubters UH in the eight hundreds was a 565 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: woman named Delia Bacon no relation to Francis Bacon, um, 566 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: although you may think so, because one person that Delia 567 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: Bacon put forward as one of the authors was Francis Bacon. Uh. 568 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: Delia Bacon was an American, was a writer, had a 569 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: sort of a long life before she got into UM, 570 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: kind of hating Shakespeare. Yeah, hating him, like really didn't 571 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: like Shakespeare and really wanted to prove that he was 572 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: not the author. And um, her idea was that it 573 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: was Francis Bacon, Walter Raleigh, and I think maybe some 574 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: other people too, who were these very well regarded people 575 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: of you know, philosophy and politics and science, who would 576 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: not have been allowed to put forth these plays and 577 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: what these plays, what they really were, were not even 578 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: meant for entertainment or for the stage. They were meant 579 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: to be sort of biting criticisms of all kinds of 580 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: various things that these gentlemen could not put their name 581 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: on Yeah, so there's Yeah, either they couldn't put their 582 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,479 Speaker 1: name on it because they would be executed, is basically 583 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: treasonous to the crown because they were, you know, putting 584 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: forth the idea of social reform and you know, women's 585 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: rights and all sorts of stuff, taking potshots of the nobility. Um. 586 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: Or there's another theory called the stigma of print that 587 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: was introduced and I think the eighteen seventies, and that 588 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: was that they just just out of um noble nobility 589 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: no bless, I guess they wouldn't deign to have their 590 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: stuff published. It would it would erode their social reputation, 591 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: even accepting the idea that they would be beheaded for treason. 592 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,800 Speaker 1: So there are a couple of reasons that that somebody 593 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: like um Francis Bacon would have to cover up his 594 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 1: identity if he were actually Shakespeare. And that same stigma 595 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: of print and um political cover argument gets extended to 596 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: other people beyond Bacon too. Yeah, and that you know, 597 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 1: it makes a little bit of sense. Um. As far 598 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: as Delia Bacon, she was able to talk Ralph Waldo 599 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: Emerson into basically kind of buying her story and he 600 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: arranged for her sponsorship basically to go to England to 601 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 1: kind of research this. Apparently in England she she was 602 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: kind of on record saying that she didn't research history 603 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: books or records and things like that. She believed that 604 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: the the proof was sort of in the plays themselves, uh, 605 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: and in the in the text basically like with these clues, um. Apparently, 606 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: she used to go to Shakespeare's tom a lot and 607 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: and kind of just you know, hang out there and 608 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: like try to convince the I guess the tomb keeper 609 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: whoever you know takes care of the cemetery, the keeper, Yeah, 610 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: the crypt keeper. I didn't want to say it to 611 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: be let In and like almost got in at one 612 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: point apparently, but I think she got sick and couldn't. 613 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 1: And but she thought that the you know, the deep 614 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: secret was within that tomb. Yeah. She kind of kicked 615 00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: off the nuttier um can up of the um questioning 616 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: of of Shakespeare. In addition to kicking off the whole thing, 617 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: she she put like kind of a nutty sheen to it, 618 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: like the idea that you could get your answers just 619 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: from reading the plays, that the clues were in there. 620 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: The thing is is Francis Bacon was known to to 621 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: amuse himself by including you know, hidden codes and messages 622 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 1: in his writings. So if it was Francis Bacon, that's 623 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,879 Speaker 1: not that much of a stretch. And supposedly Mark Twain 624 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: and some friends UM did actually turn up. If you 625 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: read the first folio, there is I guess some series 626 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:42,919 Speaker 1: of lines that spell out Francisco Bacon. No, it's pretty good. 627 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,320 Speaker 1: I mean, here's the thing, though, Francis Bacon wrote a 628 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: lot about a lot of stuff, but not a lot 629 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: of fiction and pros or didn't he write no evidence 630 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: that he ever wrote any kind of plays. Did he 631 00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: write that there was this other thing that kind of 632 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 1: came along. So Delia Bacon is widely regarded as the 633 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: person who kicked off the was Shakespeare Shakespeare idea UM, 634 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 1: But supposedly there was a person who came before her, 635 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: James Wilmot, who in one sat down to UM write 636 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 1: a biography of Shakespeare and did all the research in 637 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 1: London and Stratford on Avon, and UM was astonished by 638 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: the lack of documentation that Shakespeare had written those plays 639 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: and started to suspect it and that he kicked it off. 640 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: The thing is, the anti Shakespeare side has been accused 641 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: of making those documents up, of forging those documents to 642 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: support Delia Bacon's Francis Bacon theory. Interesting. Yeah, so they 643 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: weren't discovered until one, which is pretty convenient, and it's 644 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: entirely possible that they were just forged. All right, should 645 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: we take another break here? Yeah, let's all right, we'll 646 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: take another break. We'll talk a little bit more about 647 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:34,239 Speaker 1: whether Shakespeare wrote that stuff. So one more thing about 648 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,359 Speaker 1: Delia Baking before we wrap it up. Like you said, 649 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: she was a good writer, um, and her exhaustive examination 650 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: of the texts of Shakespeare's plays resulted in a six 651 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: d and twenty page book, The Philosophy of the Plays 652 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 1: of Shakespeare Unfolded. And Um, she's often credited with with 653 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,320 Speaker 1: basically pre figuring, if not kicking off, the idea of 654 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: literary criticism close readings of stuff to find other meanings. 655 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: And she was doing it to expose noble people as Shakespeare. 656 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 1: But but she was really good at it, and people said, well, hey, 657 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: maybe we should do this for other stuff too. Yeah, 658 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: And like ironically, because she kind of um, I mean, 659 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: you know, the various tawdry accounts say she was driven 660 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: to madness. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but 661 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 1: it did seem like it pretty much consumed her in 662 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,240 Speaker 1: the latter stages of her life, and that her family 663 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 1: was kind of embarrassed and stuff like that. Right, So 664 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: Francis Bacon was um not the only person put forth. 665 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,320 Speaker 1: And there's probably, as far as like um believers go, 666 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: somebody who at least rivals, if not eclipses him, and 667 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: that would be um, the the seventeenth Earl of Oxford, 668 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: Edward de Vere Right. Yeah, I mean there's a whole uh, 669 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,320 Speaker 1: there's a whole camp and a whole other and you know, 670 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: we can't get into this too too much indeed, tale 671 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 1: but there's a whole movement that says out of the 672 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: eight people like we really think it was the seventeenth 673 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: Earl of Oxford. Yeah, there's it's called the oxford Ian 674 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: theory of Shakespearean authorship, and there is you know, um, 675 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,479 Speaker 1: some stuff to it. He was a poet, um, which 676 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: points out that's so much for the stigma of print um, 677 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: and that also, uh, you can compare his poetry and 678 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,279 Speaker 1: in like some specific works of poetry to some of 679 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: Shakespeare's poetry um, and see some real comparisons. But um, 680 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, the the questions are 681 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:43,360 Speaker 1: the similarities, and there um, if I'm not mistaken, like 682 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: and that to me it was the sixth Earl of Derby, 683 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: who has a little more, um, a little more to offer. Really, um, 684 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 1: there was there was one other thing. So Derby has 685 00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 1: his own group, the Derbyites man. This is what I mean. 686 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,719 Speaker 1: It's an onion. It's a Bluemen onion. So there was 687 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,399 Speaker 1: one other thing about Dave that is pretty suspicious. There 688 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: were two narrative poems that Shakespeare dedicated to a man 689 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: who was raised in the same household as Davie. And 690 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: from what anybody could tell, there's no reason Shakespeare would 691 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: know this person, and why would Shakespeare dedicate two poems. 692 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: So this this noble nobleman he didn't know, um, But 693 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 1: Davie certainly knew him. He was he was basically raised 694 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: alongside him like a brother. So that along with the 695 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: biographical reading, the close reading looking for parallels between Davie's 696 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: life and Shakespeare's plays are what kind of back up 697 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: the Oxfordian theories. Interesting because that Christopher Marlowe is another 698 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: one who was a contemporary and friend of Shakespeare's and 699 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: they collaborated and they influenced one another. And this the 700 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,919 Speaker 1: details around Marlowe's death are uh hinky enough to where 701 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,400 Speaker 1: some people thought or at least the you know, the 702 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:05,840 Speaker 1: conspiracy is that is that he faked his death because 703 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: he was gonna going to be executed by the crown 704 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,879 Speaker 1: and continued to write and then used his friend Billy 705 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 1: Shakespeare as a front to continue to get those plays out. Um, 706 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,320 Speaker 1: I'm not really sure about this because I don't know 707 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:23,960 Speaker 1: that's that it's just a little far fetched. If you 708 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: asked me, well, yeah, if and if you're if you're 709 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: supposing that Marlowe faked his death in order to continue writing, 710 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: you've now got a conspiracy theory wrapped in a conspiracy 711 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:39,120 Speaker 1: theory maybe. But it's interesting because you know, marlow is 712 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: a pretty interesting dude in himself. Supposedly he may have 713 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 1: been a secret agent for the crown. Um, he was 714 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 1: an atheist, he was his own playwright. People loved him 715 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,840 Speaker 1: as a playwright at the time. Um, but he was 716 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 1: no Shakespeare Like literally, he's probably the flimsiest person you 717 00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: could attribute um shakespeare writings too, because marlow was gloomy 718 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 1: and super atheist and and um he was. His plays 719 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 1: just didn't have that same kind of humanism and um 720 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: funniness that Shakespeare's plays had. And also, why wouldn't Marlow 721 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 1: just write these plays under his own name? He had 722 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,160 Speaker 1: no reason to write these plays under different names. Yeah, agreed. Uh, 723 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: there have been people that put forth the idea that 724 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 1: the there were several different women that might have been 725 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: the real authors because uh, women were not allowed to 726 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 1: write plays at the time. Um, eight percent of the 727 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,240 Speaker 1: plays written during this time were anonymous and no author 728 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,279 Speaker 1: was listed. And a lot of people said, hey, a 729 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: lot of these were written by women and they just 730 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 1: couldn't put their name on it. Um. Many of Shakespeare's 731 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 1: plays and ideas are very progressive. Um, it's kind of 732 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,759 Speaker 1: a kind of a I don't know about flimsy, but 733 00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,360 Speaker 1: it kind of demeans Shakespeare a bit to say that like, 734 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 1: well had to be a woman because they were so 735 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,879 Speaker 1: progressive about women like taking a stand, when in fact, 736 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: Shakespeare seemingly very much thought that way himself, right, Like 737 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,719 Speaker 1: how could a man write women like this? Come on? Yeah, Um, 738 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,960 Speaker 1: there's a woman named Mary Sidmund Herbert who has a 739 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 1: whole foundation that's trying to prove that she wrote. Um. 740 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: Kind of the worst of the Internet happened about seven 741 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,120 Speaker 1: years ago when you get these memes that are just 742 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,760 Speaker 1: full of false stuff and then everyone starts spreading them around. 743 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 1: Uh there was a meme when all over social media 744 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 1: that just had the picture of this black woman and 745 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: said this is Amelia Bassano. H she really wrote Shakespeare stuff. 746 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,879 Speaker 1: She was not allowed to be a published author because 747 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 1: she was a black woman at a time where she 748 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,400 Speaker 1: was suppressed and all this stuff. Um, none of this 749 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: stuff was true. Um, first of all, she was maybe Moroccan. 750 00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 1: She was definitely not of African descent. Oh I thought 751 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:03,600 Speaker 1: she was some Venetian. I saw that she was Moroccan 752 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,800 Speaker 1: and had some Italian in her, so that, yeah, it 753 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: makes a little sense. But she was definitely not of 754 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 1: African descent. Um, she was a published author, So the 755 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,799 Speaker 1: whole notion that she wasn't allowed to publish things wasn't right. 756 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,920 Speaker 1: She was kind of a well known, uh poet I 757 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,879 Speaker 1: think at the time. So this kind of thing gets 758 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 1: passed along the internet and then you know, half the 759 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:25,719 Speaker 1: people that see it just say, oh, we'll look at 760 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,800 Speaker 1: that Shakespeare was was It was all written by this 761 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,320 Speaker 1: lady back then. Problems. Yeah, problem solved. And that's just 762 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: not how it works. One of the other things I 763 00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,440 Speaker 1: saw that um, And I think the people who are 764 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 1: like Shakespeare as a woman are like, well, okay, if 765 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,719 Speaker 1: we're if we're starting to question Shakespeare's authorship, we can't 766 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,440 Speaker 1: ignore this whole group of people who had every reason 767 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,000 Speaker 1: to hide their identity as authors of these plays because 768 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,120 Speaker 1: they were women and they weren't do this kind of stuff. Um. 769 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: So there was a critic who in wrote of a 770 00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,560 Speaker 1: um who praised a gentlewoman who was writing some amazing 771 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:05,480 Speaker 1: plays and sonnets. And this was the year after Shakespeare 772 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,440 Speaker 1: pops back up um, after his lost years, and when 773 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,240 Speaker 1: he was starting to write um. But that the critics 774 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:13,959 Speaker 1: said he didn't want to reveal who it was because 775 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,239 Speaker 1: he didn't want to basically get her in trouble. So 776 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:18,640 Speaker 1: that's what some other people kind of look at and say, see, 777 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,279 Speaker 1: Shakespeare was a woman. Well, I mean, I think I 778 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,440 Speaker 1: think this theory makes a lot more sense a lot 779 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,239 Speaker 1: of the others, you know, just by this year fact 780 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,359 Speaker 1: that women would not have been allowed to So uh, 781 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,239 Speaker 1: maybe Shakespeare was progressive and decided to be a front 782 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,320 Speaker 1: for these great works. But it reveals a point about 783 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,760 Speaker 1: UM being a anti Shakespeare, anti I guess Stratford person 784 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,320 Speaker 1: is you have to part of his You have to 785 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 1: explain why somebody would want to fake authorship, would want 786 00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: to hide behind Shakespeare's name. Yeah, what do you call that? 787 00:46:54,360 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: A motive? Yeah, you got means motive, an opportunity. You 788 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 1: put those three together, you got your Shakespeare. Well that's 789 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,400 Speaker 1: what I mean about the maybe women wrote them. I mean, 790 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,160 Speaker 1: there was definite motive there, right exactly. So there was 791 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,160 Speaker 1: one other thing that happened. I mean a lot of 792 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,640 Speaker 1: stuff happened over the course of this hundred almost two 793 00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:19,800 Speaker 1: hundred years now, UM of questioning Shakespeare's authorship Back in 794 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:25,799 Speaker 1: seven a UM OX forty and UM Charlton Augburn got 795 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,600 Speaker 1: the UM at least three sitting Supreme Court justices John 796 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,840 Speaker 1: Paul Stevens, William Brennan, and Harry Blackman to hold a 797 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 1: mock trial to determine if Shakespeare actually was the author 798 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,359 Speaker 1: of Shakespeare's plays, and they did on c span they 799 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,040 Speaker 1: had They held like a trial and heard the evidence, 800 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,040 Speaker 1: and Shakespeare had his own attorney arguing for him, and 801 00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:50,799 Speaker 1: UM it was pretty interesting, but they they it went 802 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,080 Speaker 1: two to two to one, I think in favor of 803 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,640 Speaker 1: of Shakespeare from Stratford as the author. But they did 804 00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 1: like real research and stuff. It wasn't just like a 805 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:04,000 Speaker 1: you know, yeah stunt no, So the Supreme Court justices 806 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,719 Speaker 1: were kind of taking a tongue in cheek. But I 807 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,920 Speaker 1: got the impression that Charlton Augburn was like, yes, finally 808 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,719 Speaker 1: going to prove it definitively one way or another, and 809 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:16,719 Speaker 1: it didn't even fall in his favor. Interesting, Yeah, it 810 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,320 Speaker 1: is interesting what people did in the eighties on c SPAN. 811 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,560 Speaker 1: I got a few more little things here from that 812 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:28,880 Speaker 1: Atlantic article that point to his authorship is being genuine. 813 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 1: One is that he had a narrative poem called Venus 814 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 1: and Adonis that was a very popular poem at the 815 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,160 Speaker 1: time that was put in print. Uh and it was 816 00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,839 Speaker 1: printed by a gentleman named Richard Field, who apparently went 817 00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,040 Speaker 1: to school with him at Stratford. So that's a that's 818 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:49,120 Speaker 1: a pretty good little hint um he was written about 819 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,520 Speaker 1: at the time, So it's not like he was never 820 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,040 Speaker 1: known until his death and then all of a sudden 821 00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,480 Speaker 1: became super popular, Like he died a rich man and 822 00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:02,799 Speaker 1: was written about with by literary critics UM at the time, 823 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,040 Speaker 1: and and entertainment and play critics, so they were contemporaneous 824 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,760 Speaker 1: UM criticisms of his writing while he was still living, 825 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,120 Speaker 1: which which is a pretty you know, pretty big clue 826 00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:17,320 Speaker 1: that he probably wrote this stuff. That is not proof, no, 827 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,560 Speaker 1: because those people could be there. They went and saw 828 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,000 Speaker 1: a play by Shakespeare. They didn't mean that they met 829 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 1: Shakespeare and talked to Shakespeare about the authorship of the 830 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,520 Speaker 1: place and leaned up his shoulder while he wrote it. Right. Proof. 831 00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,080 Speaker 1: The other last thing that I saw in the Atlantic 832 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:34,840 Speaker 1: article this is the one, or actually this was in 833 00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,800 Speaker 1: a this was the Golden bullet from that video was 834 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 1: Shakespeare was apparently concerned that, um, his dad's reputation sort 835 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,239 Speaker 1: of in the family's reputation suffered later in life because 836 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,160 Speaker 1: of financial problems that his dad had, and he really 837 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,759 Speaker 1: wanted to kind of restore their name and get a 838 00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,840 Speaker 1: coat of arms made, which is, uh, you could, you know, 839 00:49:57,960 --> 00:49:59,759 Speaker 1: it's like you could be a true gentleman if you 840 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,080 Speaker 1: had a coat of arms. And apparently it's a really 841 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,040 Speaker 1: long process. They don't just hand him out to anybody. 842 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,520 Speaker 1: You've gotta like have a certain level of achievement to 843 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,480 Speaker 1: get a coat of arms. So he went through this big, 844 00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,879 Speaker 1: long process and had he went all Barry Linden on there. 845 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,319 Speaker 1: Oh man, what a movie. Um. He had a couple 846 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,879 Speaker 1: of different men in the Herald's office who defended Shakespeare's 847 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:22,719 Speaker 1: right to have a coat of arms because other people 848 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,200 Speaker 1: were saying, who is this guy? Even like he came 849 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,600 Speaker 1: from not much and he shouldn't have a coat of arms. 850 00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:30,360 Speaker 1: And one of the guys who defended him was a 851 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,040 Speaker 1: man named William Camden, who this guy in the video 852 00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,200 Speaker 1: referred to as one of the most learned men in 853 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,440 Speaker 1: all of England. Uh. He was actually Ben Johnson's schoolmaster 854 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,040 Speaker 1: and apparently just knew everything on happening on the literary 855 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,360 Speaker 1: scene inside and out. And in one of his books 856 00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,919 Speaker 1: he uh it was called the Remains of a Greater History. 857 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:53,879 Speaker 1: He talks about all the great writers of the time 858 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:59,240 Speaker 1: and he lists William Shakespeare of Avon Uh in that book. 859 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:04,080 Speaker 1: So he said, that's the golden bullet. Uh again, if 860 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,359 Speaker 1: it's just a front, it's still in no real proof 861 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,520 Speaker 1: of authorship. No it's not. I mean like this guy 862 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:14,080 Speaker 1: could just be playing along lending his his Yeah, that's 863 00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,640 Speaker 1: another one. Too. Like that's the thing, like the anti 864 00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:23,640 Speaker 1: Stratfordians have caused the pro Stratfordians to actually defend their position, 865 00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,239 Speaker 1: and in doing so, it's kind of revealed that both 866 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,480 Speaker 1: of them are kind of on shaky ground. It's almost 867 00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:32,480 Speaker 1: just a matter of belief. Do you want to believe 868 00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,240 Speaker 1: that one man was that brilliant and and that talented 869 00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,960 Speaker 1: and gifted um or do you can? Can you just 870 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,360 Speaker 1: not believe that? It just doesn't make any sense to you. 871 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,480 Speaker 1: So it was a cabal of noble people who were 872 00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,880 Speaker 1: trying to advance political reform and hiding behind William Shakespeare 873 00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,320 Speaker 1: and paying him off with maybe um family crests and 874 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,359 Speaker 1: money and and fame to to let let them use 875 00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:00,239 Speaker 1: his name as their you know, the playwright. Yeah, also 876 00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,760 Speaker 1: say like where he was from. There was some regional 877 00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,239 Speaker 1: slang that was very specific to where he was from 878 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,320 Speaker 1: that was used. Uh, there was in Taming of the 879 00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:13,319 Speaker 1: Shrew he mentions these Latin phrases that are in specifically 880 00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,800 Speaker 1: from a Latin book that apparently was known to have 881 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,680 Speaker 1: been used at his school, at his grammar school in Stratford. 882 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,239 Speaker 1: So again there's all these little hints and clues. All 883 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,360 Speaker 1: of it kind of gave me a headache, right, And 884 00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,719 Speaker 1: I was like, can we just like love these plays? Right? Exactly? 885 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,319 Speaker 1: That's exactly right. It's the ultimate point. Let's just love 886 00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,880 Speaker 1: the place. People get serious about this though, Yeah, they 887 00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,000 Speaker 1: definitely do. I mean it's pretty interesting and I mean 888 00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:43,480 Speaker 1: I get it kind of fun to watch from the 889 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:48,120 Speaker 1: outside too. Ya Are you got anything else? No, we 890 00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,080 Speaker 1: could go on all day, but totally we'd never get anywhere. 891 00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:53,200 Speaker 1: There's like ten things I'm leaving on the table. So 892 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,359 Speaker 1: we just got to keep moving on, right, all right, 893 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,160 Speaker 1: Let's keep on keeping on, Chuck. If you want to 894 00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,240 Speaker 1: know more about Shakespeare and authorship, there is a giant, 895 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,440 Speaker 1: gaping rabbit hole you can jump down on the internet 896 00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,960 Speaker 1: and uh say sionar to all of your other pursuits. 897 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,040 Speaker 1: And since I said Sianara, it's time for listener mail. 898 00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:15,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this just came in over the wire. 899 00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,400 Speaker 1: I thought it was kind of funny, uh, from our 900 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:24,200 Speaker 1: friends Stephen in Kagoshima, Japan, about eating about eating squid, 901 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,759 Speaker 1: says love the show fellas reason not to be so 902 00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:33,240 Speaker 1: touchy though about eating squid. They are child murdering sea vermin, 903 00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,759 Speaker 1: he said. The reason squid die after they made is 904 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,160 Speaker 1: a survival adaptation, because if not, they would eat the 905 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:46,040 Speaker 1: eggs and newly hatched squid from themselves and other squid 906 00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:50,480 Speaker 1: in the spawning areas. Uh, squidly did lee is an 907 00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:57,400 Speaker 1: infanticidal maniac and should be cooked and eaten, albeit sustainably, 908 00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,960 Speaker 1: of course. Uh So that's the argument, is that these 909 00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,680 Speaker 1: squids deserve to be eaten because they would be eating 910 00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:08,359 Speaker 1: themselves if not for this adaptation. So he also says 911 00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,880 Speaker 1: telled Josh not to eat uncooked squid. That's not great, 912 00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:16,399 Speaker 1: all right, and uh kind regards from Stephen in Kagoshima, Japan, 913 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:21,280 Speaker 1: a squid haven and a squid inc pasta destination. Stephen, 914 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,759 Speaker 1: that was a really great eye opening email. I may 915 00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,759 Speaker 1: have seen the light. I'm not sure yet. I'll have 916 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:32,520 Speaker 1: to get back to you, Okay, okay, thank you for 917 00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,440 Speaker 1: responding to that, Stephen. If you want to be like 918 00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:37,719 Speaker 1: Stephen and get in touch with us and send us 919 00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,680 Speaker 1: a potentially eye opening email, you can do that. Send 920 00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,520 Speaker 1: it off to stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. 921 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,160 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio. 922 00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,520 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio 923 00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,920 Speaker 1: app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.