Speaker 1: Good morning, peepsend. Welcome to wika EPI Daily with Meet
Speaker 1: Your Girl Danielle Moody. Recording from the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks,
Speaker 1: I'm very excited about today's show. We did a supersize
Speaker 1: special on the terrible Don't Say Gay legislation that is
Speaker 1: coming out of Florida, that is being sanctioned by Governor Disantess,
Speaker 1: and so I wanted to take this time to sit
Speaker 1: down and talk with a couple of people on different sides,
Speaker 1: not on different sides of the issues this, it's not
Speaker 1: on both sides, but folks coming at it from the
Speaker 1: family aspect, from the legal aspect, from the teacher aspect,
Speaker 1: so that we can understand the full picture of the
Speaker 1: assault that the right wing has on our education system
Speaker 1: and our public schooling and why why people should should
Speaker 1: be up in arms about it. So coming up in
Speaker 1: my conversation today is Stacy Stevenson, who is the CEO
Speaker 1: of Family Equality and LGBTQ organization that works to ensure
Speaker 1: that LGBTQ people can create the kind of families that
Speaker 1: they want and that they have the support and a
Speaker 1: community and a network that allows them to do so.
Speaker 1: Also coming up in today's conversation is Frederick Ingram, who
Speaker 1: is Secretary Treasurer of the American Federation of Teachers and
Speaker 1: was formerly the head of Florida's AFT. And then finally
Speaker 1: we will have a conversation with Carl Charles, who is
Speaker 1: staff attorney at lambed Illegal, the LGBTQ legal outlet that
Speaker 1: has been fighting these battles for decades. That is the
Speaker 1: show today, folks, and I hope that you enjoy, folks.
Speaker 1: I am so excited to welcome to woke F Daily
Speaker 1: the CEO, president, executive director, the boss Lady in charge
Speaker 1: of Family Equality, Stacy Stevenson, to join us to talk
Speaker 1: about really the horrific, horrific attacks that we are seeing
Speaker 1: once again waged against LGBTQ youth and their families, particularly folks.
Speaker 1: You know that I have been talking about what Governor
Speaker 1: DeSantis has been doing in Florida, what's being copycatted in
Speaker 1: Texas and around the Red state. Stacy, welcome to woke F.
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit before we jump into what's
Speaker 1: happening in Florida about what it is that Family Equality does. Yeah,
Speaker 1: absolutely so, Family Equality. We are a nonprofit and we've
Speaker 1: been in existence since nineteen seventy nine. And really our
Speaker 1: mission is to ensure that LGBTQ folks who want to
Speaker 1: have children can do so, and people who have children
Speaker 1: and families after you've weathered foster or adopted, that you
Speaker 1: can actually sustain your family. So, in a nutshell, our
Speaker 1: mission is to fight for lived in legal quality for
Speaker 1: LGBTQ families and future LGBTQ families. And you know, but oh, police,
Speaker 1: go ahead, and I was going to say it. And
Speaker 1: we do that in a myriad of ways. And when
Speaker 1: we work with the administration, and we work with policy
Speaker 1: issues on the state and federal level, we connect families
Speaker 1: basically because community is really important as well, and we
Speaker 1: provide education and programming too. And then storytelling is a
Speaker 1: core competency of ours, and I think we all know
Speaker 1: that storytelling is one of those methods that can help
Speaker 1: change hearts and minds. So we really do a lot
Speaker 1: of storytellings where we show the real impact of what's
Speaker 1: going on here, but also humanizing LGBTQ plus families because
Speaker 1: oftentimes people don't see our families modeled in the media
Speaker 1: at large. You know, Stacy, I have worked, as folks know,
Speaker 1: in and around LGBTQ politics and policy for most of
Speaker 1: my career. And you know, I was hearkening earlier this week,
Speaker 1: earlier last week into remembering the rash of suicides at
Speaker 1: the beginning of two thousand, of the two thousands, the
Speaker 1: rash of suicides of LGBTQ youth who were being bullied
Speaker 1: in schools. And then I reminded folks about the response
Speaker 1: that the Obama administration had in terms of making sure
Speaker 1: that our public schools, our charter schools, were safe for lgbtquth,
Speaker 1: that they were equitable, that trans youth had access right
Speaker 1: to the bathrooms that they felt most comfortable using, and
Speaker 1: that they felt they were able to learn free of harm. Well,
Speaker 1: we are seeing a total and complete reversal of that.
Speaker 1: And I want to get your initial reactions to this,
Speaker 1: don't say gay legislation that just flew through, you know,
Speaker 1: the Florida legislature, which we know is control of Republican controlled.
Speaker 1: What were your initial reactions to that? Well, disappointment, obviously
Speaker 1: from a couple of perspectives. So number one, I was
Speaker 1: one of those LGBTQ plus youths in high school and
Speaker 1: middle school who was struggling to find my way and
Speaker 1: to find support. And I remember when I came out
Speaker 1: or actually got pulled out of the closet at sixteen
Speaker 1: or seventeen, and I remember distinctly because I couldn't get
Speaker 1: support in my peer groups. I remember feeling so desperate.
Speaker 1: I went to one of the administrators I think it
Speaker 1: was a principle, and I wanted to talk with her
Speaker 1: about what was going on, and she just refused to
Speaker 1: talk with me. Now that was not based on any
Speaker 1: law or anything like that. This was in the nineties.
Speaker 1: But think about that when this was just her set,
Speaker 1: and if this is going to be built into laws,
Speaker 1: then what's going to be the impact. There's a true
Speaker 1: human impact here to these kids, and so I just
Speaker 1: remember how horrible that felt. And I was absolutely thinking
Speaker 1: about taking my own life and didn't want to be
Speaker 1: here anymore because I didn't have the supported home, I
Speaker 1: didn't have the supported school. And I remember when of
Speaker 1: the administrators telling me, how would you ever know that
Speaker 1: you were gay? You're too young to even feel this way.
Speaker 1: So then that messaging right is also damaging. The other
Speaker 1: perspective is from a parent perspective. So I'm a mother
Speaker 1: of two seven year old twin boys, thank you, And
Speaker 1: they have two moms. And we live here in Texas
Speaker 1: and our boys are often advocates for themselves in their classrooms.
Speaker 1: They're often correcting teachers about I have two moms, I
Speaker 1: don't have a mom and a dad. And so far
Speaker 1: some of the teachers have been receptive to Okay, London
Speaker 1: has two moms, Duke has two moms. But what if
Speaker 1: that's taken away from them? Yeah, what if the teachers
Speaker 1: can't tell the students that London and Duke have a
Speaker 1: different family structure, And what if London to do are
Speaker 1: silence or other kids in Florida are silence about not
Speaker 1: only themselves but their families. And so there is a
Speaker 1: true human impact that I don't think that the politicians
Speaker 1: are thinking about. They're not thinking about that, and it's
Speaker 1: going to be harm harmful, very harmful to our children
Speaker 1: and their families. You know. I don't want to say
Speaker 1: that they're not thinking about it. I just don't think
Speaker 1: they care, you know, like that, I mean, that's that's
Speaker 1: the truth of the matter, is that they don't care.
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, in in this current political climate,
Speaker 1: the radical right would be happy for us to go
Speaker 1: back into the closet and to be punished, right for
Speaker 1: our desire to be out and proud, right, And you
Speaker 1: know when you talk about the human impact and thank
Speaker 1: you so much for sharing, you know a part of
Speaker 1: your own story. Do you how do we tell this story, Stacy?
Speaker 1: How do we get out our own types of campaigns
Speaker 1: so people understand that, regardless of whether they themselves are
Speaker 1: queer or children come from a queer background, that this
Speaker 1: type of trauma that we are placing on young people
Speaker 1: in schools, this is just the beginning. Tennessee just passed
Speaker 1: legislation where they don't want to talk about the Holocaust
Speaker 1: and they're taking those books off the shelf. So, you know,
Speaker 1: how do we wage this campaign? How do we have
Speaker 1: these conversations so people get what is going on here? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting, and you know to your point that they
Speaker 1: don't care. That's an even you know, larger issue, right,
Speaker 1: And some think that this has been used as a
Speaker 1: wedge issue, right, so for political gain, and so maybe
Speaker 1: that's exactly what it is. But in terms of how
Speaker 1: do we tell this story, how do we you know,
Speaker 1: sort of create this campaign? I think again it's talking
Speaker 1: about the human impact of this. I mean, that's I
Speaker 1: think for those people who do care, and I think
Speaker 1: there are people who do care who may not understand
Speaker 1: what is going on. I think that we have to
Speaker 1: be very clear and the un tell the ugly truth
Speaker 1: about the human impact. So there was a survey released
Speaker 1: by the Trevor Project in twenty twenty one about the
Speaker 1: human impact right and the forty two percent of LGBTQ
Speaker 1: plus youth seriously considered attempting suicide in the past year.
Speaker 1: That was from twenty twenty one. You know, half of
Speaker 1: all LGBTQ plus youth of color reported discrimination based on
Speaker 1: their Wraith ethnicity in the past year. I think showing
Speaker 1: statistics number one is one thing, and I think also
Speaker 1: telling the story in the way that this is damaging,
Speaker 1: this is going to lead. As Shaston said, I think
Speaker 1: in the tweet after this was actually reported, that this
Speaker 1: is going to kill kids. And I don't think that
Speaker 1: we have to twe should shy away from that. It's
Speaker 1: an ugly truth. But the fact of the matter is
Speaker 1: that it is. It is going to it absolutely is,
Speaker 1: and so there is a real risk here of us
Speaker 1: losing more youth and as you mentioned, going backwards and
Speaker 1: going back into the days then when I when I
Speaker 1: came out where we saw more students like us, all
Speaker 1: suicides at my school happen. Um. We got to tell
Speaker 1: the impact, We got to show the numbers, um, and
Speaker 1: we got to be loud about it. What will family
Speaker 1: equality as you begin, you know, you've been in this
Speaker 1: position now as a newly executive director for you know,
Speaker 1: close to a year. You're coming in at a really
Speaker 1: precarious time, and you know, in our society, what are
Speaker 1: some of the things that you have up on your
Speaker 1: agenda for family equality in dealing with this and then
Speaker 1: other issues that you all tackle on a day to
Speaker 1: day basis. Yeah, you know, we are putting a very
Speaker 1: distinct focus on what we call our schools work. We
Speaker 1: know that there are opportunities and lots of opportunities to
Speaker 1: protect our kids and our families in schools, and so
Speaker 1: we are doing that. So we're working closely with our
Speaker 1: partners like and Glisten and with the administration to ensure
Speaker 1: that children, for example, who have LGBTQ plus parents or
Speaker 1: family members are protected at school under specific laws. So
Speaker 1: those are one of the things that are on our agenda.
Speaker 1: Our policy folks are engaged into some state coalition to
Speaker 1: working with our national partners to fight some of these bills,
Speaker 1: the Don't Say Gay bill, book bands, curriculum bands, all
Speaker 1: those attempts to erase our history. We're starting to work
Speaker 1: in coalition with people and to use families, Family Equalities Voice,
Speaker 1: to have a seat at the table from a family perspective,
Speaker 1: to show the impact of family, and I think from
Speaker 1: a larger perspective. You know, our work is really around
Speaker 1: ensuring that GBTQ plus people can actually create their families
Speaker 1: and as I mentioned early, can sustain their families. So
Speaker 1: larger legislation like the John Lewis Every Child Deserves a
Speaker 1: Family Act is something that has been on our agendas,
Speaker 1: our flagship legislation, and we're going to continue to push
Speaker 1: that and then our efforts to get the Equality Act pass,
Speaker 1: which will provide explicit protections for LGBTQ plus families and
Speaker 1: some protections to protect children's and children in schools. Last
Speaker 1: question for you, Stacy, because the times are so precarious,
Speaker 1: because you are raising young kids in you know, young
Speaker 1: black boys in a red state. You know, you know
Speaker 1: firsthand about the challenges that we are facing. How do
Speaker 1: you hold on to hope in this moment and inspire
Speaker 1: other people, other families, to believe that we can move
Speaker 1: past this really dark moment. It's a great question. One
Speaker 1: of the things I'll say is that I'll be honest
Speaker 1: that it's not always easy to hold onto hope. So
Speaker 1: I don't want to paint this rosy picture, because it
Speaker 1: does get rough, Danielle, It absolutely does. At the same time,
Speaker 1: I have these moments with my kids and my family,
Speaker 1: and I think back to being a young LGBTQ plus
Speaker 1: person who was told that I would never have a family,
Speaker 1: that we as a collective would never have a family,
Speaker 1: that those rights would never be given to us, that
Speaker 1: marriage would never be given to us. And I look
Speaker 1: back and I see where we are now, and so
Speaker 1: I think what I what I try to do, especially
Speaker 1: in the seat that I'm sitting in now, is to
Speaker 1: look at those those hard won rights that we that
Speaker 1: we did get, like marriage, like the Bostock decision, you know,
Speaker 1: some of the decisions that we've seen where we actually
Speaker 1: can foster and adopt children. To look at the winds
Speaker 1: and to look that we have had some progress, and
Speaker 1: then to lean on that and to know that we've
Speaker 1: been at these dark times before, and I believe that
Speaker 1: we will we will get through them. And we know
Speaker 1: in terms of just LGBTQ plus equality that the majority
Speaker 1: of Americans actually support you know, anti discrimination, you know,
Speaker 1: and so we know that we have lots of support.
Speaker 1: It's just really kind of working through and working through
Speaker 1: some of these wedge issues that the politicians are trying
Speaker 1: to throw at us. Well. I can't thank you enough
Speaker 1: for the work that you do, for making the time
Speaker 1: to join willk F, and hopefully you will come back
Speaker 1: and talk to us more about where family equality is,
Speaker 1: the work that it's doing, and also how we can
Speaker 1: continue to be involved for those volks that do want
Speaker 1: to be involved in this moment. Absolutely, thank you for
Speaker 1: having me, Daniel, appreciate you, folks. I am very happy
Speaker 1: to be joined today by Frederick Ingram, who is the
Speaker 1: secretary treasurer of the the American Federation of Teachers and
Speaker 1: formally the president of the Florida Education Association. Frederick, thank
Speaker 1: you for making the time to join wike a F today.
Speaker 1: You know your state of Florida, My goodness, does Governor
Speaker 1: de Santis want to keep his name in everyone's mouth
Speaker 1: for all the wrong reasons, has been championing legislation that
Speaker 1: would have LGBTQ people essentially erased from discussions, from curriculum,
Speaker 1: from the history books. Can you tell us a bit
Speaker 1: about what you are seeing and hearing from teachers on
Speaker 1: the ground in Florida about these moves that this governor
Speaker 1: is making and what we know will most likely be
Speaker 1: copycatted around other Republican run states. Sure, you know, thank
Speaker 1: you for having me. And it's a sense state of
Speaker 1: affairs as it relates to Governor de Santis and his
Speaker 1: lack of leadership in Florida, his his his his inability
Speaker 1: to bring people together, his intent on divisive type policies
Speaker 1: and legislative agenda that he has for the state of Florida.
Speaker 1: This is just one of the many bad bills that
Speaker 1: he's proffered over the last year since he's been governor
Speaker 1: of State of Florida. I'm sorry, the last two years
Speaker 1: that since he's been governor of State of Florida. And
Speaker 1: you know, we've seen anti woke bills, whatever that means.
Speaker 1: We've seen bills that try to step on the feet
Speaker 1: of people who are have the freedom of assembly, which
Speaker 1: is directly after the George Floyd bill. They had an
Speaker 1: Anti Riot Act, and he's had the anti trans bill
Speaker 1: where you're banning trans kids from trying to participate in
Speaker 1: sports in our public schools. And this is just one
Speaker 1: of the many where he's trying to demean and he
Speaker 1: is trying to push down our LGBTQUH students and those
Speaker 1: who identify with lg LGBTQUH. You know, the community, yeah, right, right,
Speaker 1: the community and so so so it's just it's a
Speaker 1: it's a tragedy what's happening in the state of Florida.
Speaker 1: And what we know that this governor is trying to
Speaker 1: do is position himself to run president, and unfortunately he
Speaker 1: is pulling the worst of the rights and conservative thoughts
Speaker 1: h to for people because we believe that he's running
Speaker 1: squarely against President Trump, who lives in Florida, and we
Speaker 1: believe that he has to keep pushing to the right
Speaker 1: so that he can stay to the right of the
Speaker 1: governor in Texas and Georgia, where we're seeing other bad
Speaker 1: bills that are being, like you said, copycattered all over
Speaker 1: this country, inclusive of of voting rights bills. So it's
Speaker 1: all h We believe that we're the incubator for all
Speaker 1: things bad right now as it relates to legislation. But
Speaker 1: you know, we're fighting back, you know, so Frederick talked
Speaker 1: to me. You know, I am a former teacher, former educator,
Speaker 1: and I taught first and second grade elementary school in Washington,
Speaker 1: DC before I would make my way into policy work
Speaker 1: and then to New York where I am now. And
Speaker 1: I will tell you that of the many positions that
Speaker 1: I have had, teaching was one of the hardest that
Speaker 1: I've ever done. And every day that I see what
Speaker 1: we are putting our teachers through, whether it be series
Speaker 1: of mass shootings. Florida was the first state to say, oh,
Speaker 1: we're not going to do anything about, you know, school shootings,
Speaker 1: We'll just arm our teachers. Right We're sending them to
Speaker 1: work in a pandemic without the safety of mask mandates
Speaker 1: in these states, without the safeties of vaccination requirements in
Speaker 1: these states. And now we're saying you can't talk about
Speaker 1: race or racism, you can't talk about LGBTQ people. What
Speaker 1: are teachers saying to you all? What are you hearing?
Speaker 1: And is there a mass resignation of teachers that we
Speaker 1: actually should be paying attention to Yeah, then you know
Speaker 1: it's funny you asked that, because even before the pandemic,
Speaker 1: even before the sentis, we had a shortage of teachers.
Speaker 1: That shortage is being exacerbated, that shortage is being expanded
Speaker 1: beyond almost beyond repair, because we don't have enough students
Speaker 1: in our colleges and universities that are in the pipeline
Speaker 1: to become teachers. And so this shortage is going to
Speaker 1: send us back decades. It's going to send us back decades,
Speaker 1: not only in public schools throughout, but we know that
Speaker 1: our black and brown children hurt even more because we
Speaker 1: know that there are a lack of black and brown
Speaker 1: teachers in our classrooms in the in the state of Florida.
Speaker 1: In fact, black males make up two percent of all
Speaker 1: teachers in the country. And so we have those shortages.
Speaker 1: And it's not what teachers are saying. It's what they're
Speaker 1: not saying. It's that they're putting their keys on their
Speaker 1: principles desk and saying, you know what, I've had it.
Speaker 1: You won't keep me safe. You're fighting mass mandates, you're
Speaker 1: acting as if the vaccines don't exist. You're telling me
Speaker 1: what I can teach as it relates to history. You're
Speaker 1: telling me what I can teach as it relates to students'
Speaker 1: mental health. And LGBTQ students need those types of supports
Speaker 1: around them because it is still a very vulnerable place
Speaker 1: to be when you are a young student, and so
Speaker 1: our teachers are the first line of defense there. And
Speaker 1: so teachers are not saying anything, they're just walking out
Speaker 1: the door. If you've got thirty years or thirty five
Speaker 1: years or twenty five years, you're saying, you know what,
Speaker 1: I've had enough. I have simply had enough, and I'm
Speaker 1: out of here. And then, if you are a first
Speaker 1: year teacher or a second year teacher, or if you're
Speaker 1: in college, what incentive do you have to come into
Speaker 1: education knowing that these people are going to underpay you,
Speaker 1: they're going to undercut you, they're not going to support you,
Speaker 1: and you have laws that have made you the enemy. Listen,
Speaker 1: our teachers are the beautiful people in our country. It
Speaker 1: is still the most noble profession that you can go
Speaker 1: into to give back to your community, to love kids
Speaker 1: every day. Our most precious resource is in our classrooms.
Speaker 1: We've got to teach and treat our teachers in the
Speaker 1: same manner that we do our kids because we give
Speaker 1: them to them every day. That's that's who we are.
Speaker 1: And it's not only teachers, it's the educational community. Why
Speaker 1: is the bus driver making seven dollars an hour. Why
Speaker 1: is the cafeteria worker who's feeding that hungry kid making
Speaker 1: less than a minimum wage. Why is the secretary who
Speaker 1: is in charge of giving all of the the you know,
Speaker 1: all the reports for the school back to the you know,
Speaker 1: to the school leadership. Why can't she pay her own bills.
Speaker 1: It's an educational village out there that is being disrupted
Speaker 1: every single day, and this LGBTQ bill is just one
Speaker 1: more insult. It's one more insult to where teachers are
Speaker 1: afraid to say anything in schools because we're being told
Speaker 1: what to say, when the state and how to see it.
Speaker 1: That's not teaching. That's dictatorship and that should not be
Speaker 1: in the state of Florida. So how Frederick is aft
Speaker 1: fighting against all of the things, all the litany of
Speaker 1: things that have been laid out, because you know, when
Speaker 1: you look at what is happening in Florida, you see
Speaker 1: the fight that teachers are against stuff. In Chicago, you
Speaker 1: see what was happening in LA across the country right,
Speaker 1: teachers are literally under assault. They're either having to form
Speaker 1: walkouts in order to have their needs be met, right,
Speaker 1: but they're to your point, being looked at as the
Speaker 1: enemy of the people, when in twenty twenty we were
Speaker 1: saying that they were essential and they were heroes. So
Speaker 1: what is AFT doing to help this fight, to help
Speaker 1: teachers stand up, form themselves, and then also to kind
Speaker 1: of to recruit in an environment where I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: if I were to be asked today to be a teacher,
Speaker 1: I would say no, right right, well listen. So I
Speaker 1: am so proud of our union, the American Federation of Teachers.
Speaker 1: Our president is Randy Weingarten, who is a vanguard of
Speaker 1: our public schools, and she has been in and around
Speaker 1: this country, all over this country. We started the school
Speaker 1: year off with it Back to School for All campaign,
Speaker 1: where we went directly to parents knocking on doors saying, hey,
Speaker 1: we need your kids back in school. We know that
Speaker 1: they've been on virtual school, we know that they haven't
Speaker 1: been in a classroom. We know that we've got to
Speaker 1: reacculterate them to the school policies and processes. But they've
Speaker 1: got to be in school. That's what we did at
Speaker 1: the beginning of school year. Literally, union members went door
Speaker 1: to door, knocking on doors in the hood and the suburbs,
Speaker 1: way out in the fields. You know, it didn't matter
Speaker 1: what the demographics were. We wanted kids back in school.
Speaker 1: And in large part we did that. Ninety nine percent
Speaker 1: of our schools were open at the beginning of school
Speaker 1: and that was, you know, through the push from the
Speaker 1: federal government, through the police, from our unions and teachers
Speaker 1: literally saying bring these kids back to school and let
Speaker 1: us work the magic. And so we're continuing that effort
Speaker 1: now by joining with parents. Parents have the ultimate power
Speaker 1: as it relates to our schools, and that's where the
Speaker 1: power should be. And so we're linking up with parents
Speaker 1: all over this country. We're letting them know that they've
Speaker 1: got to speak at school boards. They have got to
Speaker 1: know their school board members. They've got to you know,
Speaker 1: have a dialogue with their superintendence and the principles. They've
Speaker 1: got to demand that schools are equitable. They leave with
Speaker 1: education justice, and we understand that we have to teach
Speaker 1: the truth and give our teachers the latitude to do
Speaker 1: what they went to school to do what they know
Speaker 1: how to do, what they have the passion to do,
Speaker 1: and so that's what we're doing. We're linking up with
Speaker 1: our community members, We're linking up with parents all over
Speaker 1: this country. We're forming these collaborations and trying to make
Speaker 1: sure that we push and that's what we're doing from
Speaker 1: bottom up, from the top down, We're ensuring that we
Speaker 1: get people ready to vote because along these bad bills,
Speaker 1: these LGBTQ bills, and these these bad trans bills, and
Speaker 1: these bad voter suppression bills, we know that these same
Speaker 1: people who are promulgating this stuff, including governor desenters, don't
Speaker 1: want people to vote. They want to take people away,
Speaker 1: and they have politicized education. And so if they have
Speaker 1: politicized education, then that means that we've got to get
Speaker 1: to the ballot box and put some people in place
Speaker 1: that will help all of our students, that will help
Speaker 1: all of our schools, that mean well about education. And
Speaker 1: so that's what we're doing. From the top down. We
Speaker 1: are challenging these voter suppression bills all over this country.
Speaker 1: We've linked up with partners and allies all over the country.
Speaker 1: Our unions is stronger than ever. People are joining our
Speaker 1: union because they see the relevance if yes, we have
Speaker 1: a mass resignation out there and people looking for jobs,
Speaker 1: and yes there's truth and you know, people being scared
Speaker 1: of the pandemic. But let me tell you something. This
Speaker 1: generation of young people, this generation of workers, they want
Speaker 1: to fight. They want equity, they want justice, and they
Speaker 1: know wrongdoing and they know who's on the side or right.
Speaker 1: And so we want people to know that the unions
Speaker 1: are on the on the right side of history, and
Speaker 1: we're going to continue to fight every single day. If
Speaker 1: it's the school board members, if it's these ancillary groups
Speaker 1: that are out there, if it's these right wing uh,
Speaker 1: you know, very non conservative group, but hate groups. We've
Speaker 1: seen more hate. And we started off talking about the LGBTQ.
Speaker 1: But why why do you not like people who are
Speaker 1: different from you because they're a different color from you,
Speaker 1: because the active because they love a little different than you.
Speaker 1: They're people we want the same things, you know, and
Speaker 1: people all we should lead with love in our classrooms,
Speaker 1: in our leadership styles, in our communities. We should want
Speaker 1: what's best for our fellow man and woman. And some
Speaker 1: of these hate groups out there, and some of these
Speaker 1: you know, right wing folks don't want that, and so
Speaker 1: we get into the half and the half nots, And
Speaker 1: so we're union that wants everybody to have and we
Speaker 1: believe that we have enough in this country to do
Speaker 1: that if we do it through our schools. Frederick, I
Speaker 1: can't thank you enough for making the time to join
Speaker 1: woke F and also for the work of recruiting retaining
Speaker 1: the magic workers in our communities, because I believe that
Speaker 1: without teachers, without teachers that lead with love, that see
Speaker 1: all of their students as equal, that sees their parents
Speaker 1: and caregivers as part of a larger fabric of our community,
Speaker 1: we're never going to beat back against the hate that
Speaker 1: you just spoke about. And so I commend you. I
Speaker 1: hope that you all will come back and spend more
Speaker 1: time with us on woke F to talk about, you
Speaker 1: know what other what people can do in their own
Speaker 1: communities to support their teachers, their administrators, and their schools,
Speaker 1: whether or not they have kids in the system or not,
Speaker 1: because I think that it is really important. Frederick Ingraham,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for making the time to join
Speaker 1: woke F. We appreciate you. Thank you Daniel for having me.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, folks. I am very excited to be
Speaker 1: joined by staff attorney in the Southern Regional Office of
Speaker 1: LAMB the Legal, Carl Charles, who can help us understand.
Speaker 1: Help us understand, Carl, the legal nightmare that the LGBTQ
Speaker 1: plus community is facing. You know, what often happens is
Speaker 1: that egregious laws like this don't say gay bill will
Speaker 1: come out of Florida, and the majority of us who
Speaker 1: don't live in Florida who are queer will be like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't live there. That's unfortunate. Those people should move right.
Speaker 1: But what we are noticing is that when these laws
Speaker 1: pop up in places like Texas, in Florida, in Tennessee,
Speaker 1: they have a ripple effect across the country, particularly in
Speaker 1: the twenty eight states that are run by Republican governors.
Speaker 1: Tell us what is happening in Florida with this legislation
Speaker 1: and what LAMB the Legal and other that I know
Speaker 1: that you work in coalition with are paying attention to
Speaker 1: at this moment. Thanks thanks Daniel, and thanks so much
Speaker 1: for having me on to discuss this really incredibly important issue.
Speaker 1: And I think your framing is exactly right. It is
Speaker 1: a nightmare, and it's one for all of us, not
Speaker 1: just for those of us who live in the states
Speaker 1: where these bills are cropping up. So, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: we are seeing really an unprecedented number in the last
Speaker 1: few legislative sessions of bills that target specifically trans and
Speaker 1: gender nonconforming young people in many different aspects of their lives,
Speaker 1: but largely in schools. And this bill is of course
Speaker 1: targeted to young people in schools, not just trans and
Speaker 1: gender nonconforming, but all young people who attend school of
Speaker 1: any kind at the primary or secondary level in Florida.
Speaker 1: And really the reach, the scope of the harm that
Speaker 1: this bill could cause is really hard to measure, to
Speaker 1: be honest. You know, there's of course the most clear
Speaker 1: and acute harm, which is going to be to the
Speaker 1: LGBTQ students in schools across Florida, whose teachers are as
Speaker 1: if this bill passes, will be essentially chilled, right and
Speaker 1: fearful of discussing anything related to sexual orientation or gender identity.
Speaker 1: And I want to point out for your audience, for
Speaker 1: your listeners a really important part of this bill and
Speaker 1: what connects to what you said about how this bill
Speaker 1: is connected to the other bills that are being proposed
Speaker 1: in other states. This bill has done something I don't
Speaker 1: want to say clever, but it frankly it is right.
Speaker 1: As compared to a bill that the legal was involved
Speaker 1: in striking down in South Carolina, a bill that explicitly
Speaker 1: targeted any discussion of lgbt people. We were involved in
Speaker 1: getting getting that stricken. But this bill doesn't specify, right,
Speaker 1: doesn't specify homosexuality, It doesn't say anything about LGBTQ. So
Speaker 1: you could read this bill, and a judge could read
Speaker 1: this bill and note that there's nothing in the bill
Speaker 1: language that explicitly targets someone's non heterosexual such orientation out
Speaker 1: to be excluded. So theoretically one could read this bill
Speaker 1: and say, oh, this just says you can't discuss such
Speaker 1: orientation or gender identity of any kind, including heterosexuality, with
Speaker 1: children in primary school. Right. But we all know, right,
Speaker 1: we all know how this bill is going to be interpreted.
Speaker 1: We know how it's going to be, the discretion it's
Speaker 1: going to allow to people who oppose equality for LGBTQ people,
Speaker 1: we know how it's going to be utilized, and the
Speaker 1: provision that allows for essentially parents, right parents to be
Speaker 1: the law enforcement officers of this bill and to bring
Speaker 1: suit against schools is going to have such a chilling
Speaker 1: effect on allied and lgbt educators across the state of Florida.
Speaker 1: It's really going to be stark. And I want to
Speaker 1: just add one more thing, which is to say, the
Speaker 1: broader harm here is to all students, right, not just
Speaker 1: LGBTQ students who don't see their identities or their lives
Speaker 1: throughout history mirrored in any kind of meaningful way. It's
Speaker 1: two heterosexual students and sis gender students who need to
Speaker 1: be learning about the diversity in their communities and their
Speaker 1: worlds to be able to be the kinds of people
Speaker 1: who grow up and want to get to know their
Speaker 1: neighbors and live in harmony and support of one another,
Speaker 1: and know what it means to be a global contributing
Speaker 1: citizen in the world right, not just relegate to whatever
Speaker 1: particular bubble they grew up in. So I view it
Speaker 1: as a really large scale harm to all students across
Speaker 1: the educational system of Florida. And to answer the second
Speaker 1: part of your question, lamb illegal and folks on the
Speaker 1: ground like a quality Florida and many other groups in
Speaker 1: the state of Florida are working around the clock to
Speaker 1: really oppose this bill. First, you know, in the legislature,
Speaker 1: lobbying legislators, trying to do what they are able to
Speaker 1: do to say, here, here's the myriad harms that this
Speaker 1: is going to cause to so many children in our state,
Speaker 1: and here's here's going to be the ripple effect. But
Speaker 1: beyond that, I think we're really sort of focused on
Speaker 1: opposing and trying to stop the bill from moving any further.
Speaker 1: But I do have to tell you, I think many
Speaker 1: of us share some some educated cynicism and skepticism that
Speaker 1: this bill might pass, right. I mean, we've seen and
Speaker 1: I want to connect this to similar censorship issues that
Speaker 1: we have seen just exploding, especially in Florida, and things
Speaker 1: that have been used as a dog whistle. Right, So
Speaker 1: we've seen critical race theory opposition bills us to basically
Speaker 1: again hamstring and chill the speech of educators who all
Speaker 1: want to discuss anything having to do with with with
Speaker 1: the oppression of black people in the United States, right historically,
Speaker 1: the civil rights movement, anything related to race and racism,
Speaker 1: That's what those kinds of bills are targeting and we
Speaker 1: view this bill is very, very similar and linked up
Speaker 1: with this kind of refusal of people to engage in
Speaker 1: the uncomfortable realities of the history of our country and
Speaker 1: also the current lives and lived experience of people who
Speaker 1: are not white straits as gender and man right, And
Speaker 1: so that's really the connection that we're seeing as well.
Speaker 1: You know, carl I brought this up in another interview
Speaker 1: that I did, and this resonates here as well. I
Speaker 1: learned recently that children in China are not taught about
Speaker 1: the Tianamen Square massacre. That there is no mention whatsoever
Speaker 1: that generations upon generations following that massacre that happened that
Speaker 1: the world watched, and that we are taught in our
Speaker 1: history books. Right, they are not. It was a law
Speaker 1: that was passed by right the leaders of China that
Speaker 1: said you weren't allowed to teach about it. It didn't happen,
Speaker 1: it didn't exist. The parents of those students were not
Speaker 1: allowed to mourn publicly. They were never allowed to mention
Speaker 1: those children's name. If in fact, you have ever heard
Speaker 1: about the Tianamen Square, it is either because you grew
Speaker 1: up elsewhere right and left China, or it was passed
Speaker 1: down in some type of oral history. This is exactly
Speaker 1: the same thing that is happening in the United States,
Speaker 1: a country that we say as a democracy. When you
Speaker 1: walk into court right and you are making a case
Speaker 1: against what is happening, and you use the right word,
Speaker 1: you said clever, because it's the same way that they
Speaker 1: wrote the bill in Texas around abortion very clever, right,
Speaker 1: Because what do they know If we don't mention these
Speaker 1: actual things, if we don't write it in black and white,
Speaker 1: and it's just an insinuation, then you can't prove an insinuation.
Speaker 1: And until there is actually a case right, there is nothing,
Speaker 1: There is nothing to be fought against right or four.
Speaker 1: So how do you fight when they are now steps
Speaker 1: miles ahead of these past suits that we've seen, how
Speaker 1: do you fight well? So you make another really important
Speaker 1: connection to what we're seeing happen in state legislatures, particularly
Speaker 1: around abortion rights and access. And the law in Texas
Speaker 1: is a great example of this right. You leave it
Speaker 1: to citizens to enforce it, and you created in such
Speaker 1: a way that makes it fairly immune from legal challenge
Speaker 1: until a certain point. Right. And so you know, our
Speaker 1: opponents have learned that the way to embed racism in
Speaker 1: our laws is to not say anything about race, right,
Speaker 1: to make it, on its face very neutral, and that
Speaker 1: makes it a lot more difficult to when you go
Speaker 1: into court and you're bringing legal challenges, you have to
Speaker 1: the bar for disparate impact. Right, It's a legal theory
Speaker 1: called disparate impact is you have to, really the bar
Speaker 1: is extremely high to show that this law has been
Speaker 1: disparately enforced against a certain group of people. It's an
Speaker 1: incredible challenge, and colleagues who work in the civil rights
Speaker 1: space know this across the board. Right. The way to
Speaker 1: insulate things from legal challenged is to be clever about
Speaker 1: the words that you use in the text of the
Speaker 1: law so that it can be interpreted in a neutral way,
Speaker 1: which makes it not immune, but it gives it a
Speaker 1: great deal more ability to evade legal challenges, right, and
Speaker 1: makes it harder to establish standing on behalf of plaintiffs
Speaker 1: who are harmed. So you just hit the nail on
Speaker 1: the head. I can't say anything more than just that.
Speaker 1: I just you know, I can't believe, Carl, I cannot
Speaker 1: believe that the right wing is smarter than us. I
Speaker 1: cannot believe that conservatives have found a way to make
Speaker 1: it so we live in this quote unquote neutral society,
Speaker 1: and yet we actually know who is being harmed, we
Speaker 1: know what it is that they're doing. And are we
Speaker 1: to assume that the judges that are on these benches
Speaker 1: are quote unquote neutral, because again, like you can't just
Speaker 1: look at this in black and white and say, oh, well,
Speaker 1: until there is something bad that happens, we're just going
Speaker 1: to let this slide. We're talking about generations of whitewashing,
Speaker 1: of straightwashing, of ciswashing. We're talking about erasure, right, and
Speaker 1: what that looks like down the line. And so where
Speaker 1: do we go from here? It's a great question. I
Speaker 1: think that I think it goes back to your remarks
Speaker 1: to open our conversation today, which is we all of
Speaker 1: us right concerns people who are watching what is happening unfold,
Speaker 1: cannot be content to say I feel bad for those
Speaker 1: people over there, right, because we are seconds away from
Speaker 1: those people over there being this person right here, right,
Speaker 1: And so we cannot, we really cannot afford to have
Speaker 1: that mentality that the problems happening or the issues in
Speaker 1: our country are happening in a state I would never
Speaker 1: live in, right. I mean, I moved to Georgia almost
Speaker 1: well a year and a half ago from New York City,
Speaker 1: where I had been for almost seven years. And it's
Speaker 1: just not sufficient to say I will never end up
Speaker 1: in a place like that, Right, we have to make
Speaker 1: a difference and take action where we are. And so
Speaker 1: I think having a I don't mean to say that
Speaker 1: people don't have this, but I think it's incredibly, incredibly
Speaker 1: important in this moment that we take a concerted effort,
Speaker 1: a concert we make a concerted effort to invest in
Speaker 1: communities that we aren't a part but are connected to
Speaker 1: by virtue of what is happening there. Right, we have
Speaker 1: to get involved and figure out ways to support people
Speaker 1: who are impacted by these bills and ensure that we
Speaker 1: don't allow those same We don't allow the same sort
Speaker 1: of landscape to be built in the places where we are. Right.
Speaker 1: If we're so sure that this could never happen where
Speaker 1: we are, well, then we better be damned sure we're
Speaker 1: we're creating and maintaining a place where that's not going
Speaker 1: to happen, right, Because I think people have sort of
Speaker 1: lull themselves into a bit of complacency when we talk
Speaker 1: like that, and then we see things happen in places
Speaker 1: that we wouldn't expect them to. Right. I'm thinking of
Speaker 1: my home state of Colorado, which, even though it didn't pass,
Speaker 1: there was still a bill presented to the legislature about
Speaker 1: banning gender affirming healthcare for transient people. Right, So that
Speaker 1: the fact that these kinds of things happen means that
Speaker 1: we still need to be committed to doing what we
Speaker 1: can where we are to ensure that doesn't happen, and
Speaker 1: finding ways to tap into and support people who are
Speaker 1: doing work on the ground where these things are really
Speaker 1: sort of being, where the alarm is really being sounded,
Speaker 1: where they are likely to or have extreme potential to pass. Carl,
Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for the work that you're doing,
Speaker 1: for the work that lamb Illegal has always done, UM
Speaker 1: for for for so many, so many decades, UM and
Speaker 1: for queer people like myself. UM. Tell people who are
Speaker 1: listening how they can support your work, how they can
Speaker 1: how they cannot just sit around and say, well, at
Speaker 1: least I'm not living there. What can foot what can
Speaker 1: regular people do to help aid this effort? Thanks, Danielle,
Speaker 1: and I have to extend that gratitude back to you.
Speaker 1: For the work that you do on this show, educating
Speaker 1: folks across the country, making sure that people know about
Speaker 1: the issues, both nationally but locally. I think that's a
Speaker 1: real incredible asset that you bring to this space. So
Speaker 1: let me extend that gratitude back to you and say
Speaker 1: that I feel very honored to do the work that
Speaker 1: I do at LAMB Illegal. There's a number of different
Speaker 1: ways folks can get involved. We are a national organization,
Speaker 1: but we have six regional offices, one in Atlanta, Georgia,
Speaker 1: where I am. We're also in Dallas, Texas, Los Angeles, California, Chicago, Illinois,
Speaker 1: New York City, New York, and Washington, DC. And we
Speaker 1: tackle a host of issues that of course have a
Speaker 1: national impact, but we do a lot of work regionally
Speaker 1: as well, and we sort of break up the country
Speaker 1: into those we break up the states into those regions,
Speaker 1: so folks in our Southern regional office, we have our
Speaker 1: eyes and ears on the ground in Florida, in South
Speaker 1: Carolina and Alabama. So I would encourage folks to check
Speaker 1: out our website, which is www dot LAMB legal dot org.
Speaker 1: We have a whole host of information that gives folks
Speaker 1: avenues to plug into groups that are doing the work
Speaker 1: locally in their communities, but also gives folks tools to
Speaker 1: do advocacy on their own. Behalf right to be advocating
Speaker 1: in their at their school board meetings, right if they're
Speaker 1: considering running for office. Things to think about when you're
Speaker 1: trying to look trying to figure out how to tackle
Speaker 1: issues that are confronting LGBT people in your community. Our
Speaker 1: website has a real wealth of information there, and we
Speaker 1: also have contact information for our regional offices. If you
Speaker 1: or someone you know about is experiencing discrimination on behalf
Speaker 1: of your LGBTQ identity, If you're concerned about what your
Speaker 1: child is experiencing in their school related to their identity,
Speaker 1: please reach out to us. We have a team of
Speaker 1: attorneys whose staff a help desk at ridiculous hours of
Speaker 1: of the day and into the night, so that we
Speaker 1: are learning about the things that are happening to LGBT
Speaker 1: people across the country, so that we can be challenging
Speaker 1: things early and often. Appreciate you so very much, and
Speaker 1: I hope that you come back again and join us
Speaker 1: on wok F. Thank you, Carl, thanks so much, Thank you, Danielle,
Speaker 1: take care of. That is it for me today at
Speaker 1: Woke f Daily. As always, Power to the people and
Speaker 1: to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke
Speaker 1: as fuck.