1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: She burst into the world in nineteen seventy six. She's 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: at what, She's out on dates, and she don't like politics, 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: from Mama and urban to feminist friends. And she's fighting 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: all the stands with chocolate and hand Kathy, She's fighting back. 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: She stressed with success. Let's call her some slack Kathy, 6 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: Mycathy fan Cathy. She's gotta like go in all baby. 7 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: Welcome back to ac cast. I am Jamie Loftus, and 8 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: today we're gonna keep digging into the assortid and frustrating 9 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: history of American beauty standards that were commented on in 10 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: the Kathy comics. We're picking up at the dawn of 11 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: second feminism in the late nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies 12 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: and the expectations of women's bodies that existed when the 13 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: Kathy strip first debuted. Body positivity was not a part 14 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: of the second wave American mainstream feminism that Kathy Guy's 15 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: White released her comic strip into hell. Body acceptance wasn't 16 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: in the popular conversation. Body neutrality doesn't come up once, 17 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that fat activism wasn't happening. The 18 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: fat rights movements started in nineteen sixty nine by Bill Fabri, 19 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: which led to the establishment of the National Association to 20 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: Advance Fat Acceptance. Then, a group of radical California feminists 21 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: formed the Fat Underground in nineteen seventy three and released 22 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: the Fat Manifesto, which demanded equal rights for fat people 23 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: and condemned quote unquote reducing industries wholesale but in the mainstream, 24 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: just as white feminist did in the first wave of feminism, 25 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: rigid control of the body was co opted by femine 26 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: is m as this showing of competence and control, a 27 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: control that was rare for a woman to have over 28 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: herself at the time. Second wave mainstream feminism very much 29 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: subscribe to this, and so what we see in a 30 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: lot of early Kathy comics feels very bizarre. In thees. 31 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: From the very beginning of the strip in nine, the 32 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: Kathy character is extremely self conscious about her weight. This 33 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: is originally prompted by her gaining some weight after successfully 34 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: quitting cigarettes early in the strips run good on your Babe, 35 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: not easy to do, but this fixation on her weight 36 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: and her body continues in the strip for the next 37 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: thirty four years. The Kathy characters weight loss goals shift 38 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: throughout the strip and remained pretty vague. She usually seems 39 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: to be looking to lose between ten and forty pounds 40 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: and is willing to try almost any fad, diet or 41 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: fitness trend to accomplish that. Like many of the themes 42 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: explored in the Kathy strips, the subject of food and 43 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: even gaining weight after quitting cigarettes came from Kathy guys 44 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: White's own life. She wrote on this shared struggle with 45 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: her character to ditch cigarettes, which was at the time 46 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: considered to be a popular weight loss and weight maintenance tool. 47 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: In a collection of the strip, guys White says this, 48 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: on one hand, it seems a little cruel to share 49 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: this particular vice with Kathy. On the other hand, in 50 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: light of the number of women whose liberation has included 51 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: the freedom to start smoking, it seemed very appropriate. Besides, 52 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: I didn't think it was fair that Kathy should go 53 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: completely untouched by something that made me so miserable. And 54 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: the most hardline feminist character in the comic strip, Kathy's 55 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: friend Andrea, is fully in support of Kathy's weight loss goals, 56 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: in spite of the fact that we're never led to 57 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: believe that these goals have anything to do with Kathy's 58 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: health or that her weight is negatively affecting her health. 59 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: Her goals and Andrea's support of them are completely aesthetic based, 60 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: and for a hardline feminist, it's bizarre to hear her 61 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: kind of bullying Kathy over dieting. Here's a strip from 62 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: the late nineteen seventies, from the first collection of Kathy 63 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: comics ever to be released. Kathy and Andrea are sitting 64 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: in the kitchen, Kathy in front of a plate of 65 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: milk and cookies. What do you think you're doing, Kathy? 66 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: I'm eating cookies, Andrea, but you're within four pounds of 67 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: your goal. You can't give up your diet now. I 68 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: don't think I'm ready to deal with success. The difference 69 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: that forty plus years can make here. The intention of 70 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: this strip is clearly that Kathy has failed at her goal. 71 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: She hasn't restricted the way she was supposed to, and 72 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: picking up the cookie is a sign of weakness. But 73 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: with a modern lens turned on this, Andrea's kind of 74 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: the villain. Why is this her business? Why are you 75 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: yelling at your physically healthy friend, as far as we know, 76 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: over a cookie like get a life? You cop early 77 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: Kathy strips also established the themes of dieting, weight, and 78 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: restriction as a cornerstone for Kathy's relationship with her mother. 79 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: Throughout the strip's history, it becomes a very recognizable dynamic 80 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: between these characters to first take on a diet, then 81 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: try to reinforce the rules with each other, and eventually 82 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: quit the diet in celebration and eat food together. Another 83 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: common dynamic is Cathy's tendency to break her diet and 84 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: gain weight while visiting her parents. It's a recognizable dynamic 85 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: with a lot of families, but it makes a Kathy 86 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: character double down on associating time with her family as 87 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: times to police her body extra carefully. Here's Kathy and 88 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: her mom talking in mom's kitchen in that same nineteen 89 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: seventies collection, The Kathy Chronicles. I thought you were out 90 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: shopping for new clothes today, Kathy. I tried, Mom, but 91 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: I'm still too fat to fit into anything. Dacent, Kathy 92 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: takes a back of chips off the counter and starts 93 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: eating them. So why are you stuffing yourself again? I 94 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: figured I might as well put my money where my 95 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: mouth is. By the time these strips were written and released, 96 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: the concept of women publicly discussing their weight with each 97 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: other and encouraging each other to achieve the body standards 98 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: of the time was deeply normalized. Part of this was 99 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 1: thanks to the continued success of women's magazines, but by 100 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies there were also groups like weight Watchers, 101 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: which was invented in the nineteen sixties by a former 102 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: Queen's housewife named Gene Nititch. Weight Watchers is still massively 103 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: popular today Oprah as their current big name representative, but 104 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: it began as essentially a rip off of a nineteen 105 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: fifties diet from the U. S Board of Nutrition that 106 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: was built around lean meat, fish, skim milk, and fruits 107 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: and veggies. What Gene Nititch added to the equation was 108 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: the idea of community. Weight Watchers wasn't just a diet, 109 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: it was also a weekly meeting with the same group 110 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: of locals, mostly women. It provided structure, a sense of 111 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: being beholden to your fellow weight watchers, and sometimes friendship. 112 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many moms and aunts of 113 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: my friends growing up were in programs like this and 114 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: held the communities created by them very very closely. The 115 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: history of Gene Ninitch's life, her company, and the persistent 116 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: existence of weight Watchers is chronicled in the book This 117 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: Is Big by writer Marissa mets Her. The book also 118 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: follows Marissa's own experience as a millennial woman being pressured 119 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: in socially conditioned to engage with diet culture for most 120 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: of her life, which culminates and her trying weight Watchers 121 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: as a social experiment that doesn't give the result promised, 122 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: but did yield really incredible insights into how diet culture 123 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: works today. She also speaks on her thoughts on the 124 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: pitfalls of body positivity messaging and much of diet cultures 125 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: rebranding as wellness culture, and she was kind enough to 126 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: speak with me about how diet clure became so popular 127 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: during the second wave of feminism and how diet culture 128 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: and white feminism aren't as at odds as history would 129 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: like you to believe. Here's some of our interview. It 130 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: does seem like during the second wave feminist movement, Geane 131 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: and weight Watchers were at least making these, however flawed 132 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: attempts to interact with that movement, which I found kind 133 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: of surprising, honestly, um, so, could you speak to that 134 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: a little bit and just kind of contextualize how diet 135 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: culture has kind of overlapped with feminist movements. So, you know, 136 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: one way to view weight watchers and is that it's 137 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: always kind of this mirror to the culture. One way 138 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: to that I really looked at weight Watchers was through 139 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: Weywatchers magazine because there was at complete archive that I 140 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: could look at, and Um, Gene knight Ish, the founder, 141 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: had a column. It was an advice column, and so 142 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: every once in a while she get these pieces, these 143 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: like letters from people asking about things like feminism. So 144 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: you could see sort of what weight watchers thought about 145 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: these things firsthand. And it's you know, it is interesting 146 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: because so the magazine would do things like tackle women 147 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: going to work, and um, you know there's like a 148 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: picture of Gene with Gloria Steinem and so feminism was 149 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: Feminism was not ignored, but it also wasn't necessarily something 150 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: that was like a linked society, and I maybe that 151 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: era there was a little less of that sort of 152 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: like connecting everything you do back to feminism. And then 153 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: you know, as like the eighties went on, you start 154 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: to see part tenants of weight Watchers that are more 155 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: sort of reflective of feminism in a big picture way, 156 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: like maybe women were working and not making food at 157 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: home as much, so weight Watchers allowed or made it 158 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: easier to eat out in restaurants. And this is where 159 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: Gene Nightich and weight Watchers really took hold on the culture. 160 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: The way that Knightag's involvement in this company that she 161 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: built from the ground up declined over time was very 162 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: telling of the period and American feminism that she was 163 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: prominent during. Jean was born only three years after women 164 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: got the vote. She was a lower middle class housewife who, 165 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: unhappy with how others perceived her fatness, ripped off an 166 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: existing diet and made it marketable to women like herself. 167 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: In the early days of weight Watcher's massive success, Nightitch 168 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: was an essential part of the brand. She lived large, 169 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: she spoke in a motivational capacity, She had a consistent 170 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: column and weight Watcher's magazine, The Whole Bit. She and 171 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 1: her first husband eventually split due to his frustrations with 172 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: her career coming before her being a wife. Then, in 173 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: nineteen three, Nightitch stepped down from weight Watchers during the 174 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,599 Speaker 1: company's tenth year, and she sold the company to the 175 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: Heinz Corporation for over seventy one million dollars. As she 176 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: grew older, her image and legacy were slowly stripped from 177 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: the picture. Metzer shares an anecdote that, towards the end 178 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: of her life, Nightitch has claimed to have called Weight 179 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: Watchers corporate headquarters to ask secretaries if Jeane Nightitch was 180 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: still alive, and that sometimes the person picking up the 181 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: phone had no idea. Marissa Metzer is no stranger to 182 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: wait Watchers and programs like it, having been pushed into 183 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: them from a very young age. So I asked her 184 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: what her experience was coming of age in the eighties 185 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: and nineties in the same period of diet culture that 186 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: Kathy Comics comments on extensively. Here's some more of our interview. 187 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: I remember are going to a Weight Watchers location in um, 188 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: Santa Cruz, California, where I grew up. And UM it 189 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: was in you know, like some kind of like strip 190 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: mall and UM, and I was definitely the youngest person there. 191 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: I was probably like eight or something like that. My 192 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: mom and I did it together because that was a 193 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: totally acceptable thing thing to do in the eighties, and UM, 194 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: I had been on kind of my parents has probably 195 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: put me on my first diet when I was about 196 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: I don't know, four or so, so you know, dieting 197 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: was not um new to me at all, probably unfortunately. 198 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: And um, I don't feel like I lasted very long 199 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: on Weight Watchers, mostly because I just didn't laugh very 200 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: long on any diet. Like it's hard to really like 201 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: be disciplined when you don't really understand why you're on 202 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: a diet, and like it's hard enough to kind of 203 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: be on a diet when you decide you need to 204 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: lose weight and you want to be on it, and instead, 205 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: I feel like I was always just put on these 206 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: diets and it was like, you know, like now you 207 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: can't have lemonade or whatever, and it was always just 208 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: sort of like, you know, just confusing and um, so 209 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: you know, I just the overall sensation of diety in 210 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: that era was that, you know, it was something that 211 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,839 Speaker 1: I had to do because my body was sort of 212 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: too big and wrong, and that it was something that's 213 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: sort of like all women or most women kind of 214 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: did and worried about. The Cathy character's life was filled 215 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: with diet moments like Marissa is describing and Cathy guys 216 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: white always approached the futility of bad diets with the 217 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: knowledge that the vast majority of them were a scam. 218 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: While fat liberation movement continued throughout the eighties and nineties, 219 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,719 Speaker 1: the mainstream did not accept it. The message of restrictive 220 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: diets and bodily discipline reigned over women of this time, 221 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: feminists or not. Often, the Kathy character would enlist her 222 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: friends and later in the strip her on and off 223 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: partner irving to lose weight with her. Here's Kathy talking 224 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: with Andrea on a walk in the early eighties. I 225 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: can't believe you're actually going through with the membership, and 226 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: Merric spark. Kathy, you can't afford it. Well, the lady 227 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: pointed out to me that if I spend that much 228 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: on a membership, the guilt will really drive me to 229 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: use the place. She said that when I see how 230 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: fast my anches disappear, it'll be worth any price. Andrea, 231 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: it's gotta make me lose weight. Andrea walks away, and 232 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: Cathy's optimism melts into anxiety. In the last panel, I 233 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: just spent my whole year's food budget on it. And 234 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: let's get that fat diet music going again, because here 235 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: is just a smattering of fad diets that existed during 236 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: the Cathy Comics run. There was, of course, wait Watchers, 237 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: Jenny Craig slim Fast. I didn't have time to eat right. 238 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: I was constantly on the go. All I was doing 239 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: was grabbing jump food. I've lost twenty two pounds on 240 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: the slim Fast plan. This has been the easiest plan 241 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: I've ever been on. The Atkins Low Carb diet, the 242 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: South Beach diet that had good carbs and bad carbs, 243 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: the Cabbage diet, the Grapefruit diet, the Cottage Cheese diet, 244 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: the Beverly Hills diet. If edra pills, those ones are bad, 245 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: the Scarsdale diet, and liquid diets, most famously endorsed when 246 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: Oprah pulled out a little red wagon full of sixty 247 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: pounds of fat that she lost live on the air 248 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: after a six week liquid starvation diet. But up until 249 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: six weeks, I absolutely nothing. I want you to know 250 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: that whatever diet you choose, and this audience is filled 251 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: with people who have had great successes, you can do 252 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: with the help of your family doctor, and if you 253 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: can believe in yourself and believe that this is the 254 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: most important thing in your life is Scott said to 255 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: us earlier, you can conquer it because if I did it, 256 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: if Scott did it, if Billy did it, you can 257 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: do it. I thank you very much, thank you. And 258 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: let's take a second for Oprah here. There's a great 259 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: episode of Maintenance Phase that examines some of the more 260 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: dangerous diets that she pushed. But Oprah was more than 261 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: just a tastemaker for American women of the late twentieth century. 262 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: From the debut of her daytime talk show in through 263 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: now as a Weight Watchers ambassador, Oprah was the boomer 264 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: woman who told other boomer women how to empower themselves. 265 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: And being a massively popular daily show, Oprah covered and 266 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: often pushed fads in diet and exercise. And for all 267 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: of the good that she's done and the unquestionable icon 268 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: that she is, she's also introduced figures into the American 269 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: zeitgeist who continue to how you say reek, absolute havoc 270 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: on the general public to this day. Your doctor phills, 271 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: your doctor os is just a litany of scary and 272 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: sometimes fake doctors. Kathy Strips mentioned Oprah in text a 273 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: number of times. Because of who Oprah was, she served 274 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: as a cultural stand in for a woman who struggled 275 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: to meet the societally accepted body norm of the time, 276 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: and both succeeded and failed very publicly. So she definitely 277 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: would have been a person that the Cathy character would 278 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: have compared herself to and taken advice from as far 279 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: as the wagon of fat goes. Not for nothing, Oprah 280 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: did say in two thousand five that this liquid diet 281 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: was extremely unhealthy and that she wouldn't do it again. 282 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: As the third wave of feminism crusted in the early nineties, 283 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: the mainstream engaged in diet and fitness fads and promoted 284 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 1: them as a part of how women could feel empowered. 285 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,199 Speaker 1: It presented this illusion of control in a way to 286 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: better oneself that simultaneously preyed on women's time and their 287 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: money and their sense of self. Here's a Cathy strip 288 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: from the nineties, as she's standing outside the gym with 289 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: her friend Charlene. She's about to start a new diet, 290 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 1: a fad called the Healthy Food Plan for Life that 291 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: was all the rage at the time. The grapefruit diet 292 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: three weeks and it was over. The Healthy Food Plan 293 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: for Life. Sixty more years of fat free salad dressing, 294 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 1: the Hollywood diet four weeks and it was over the 295 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: Healthy Food Plan for Life, sixty more years of boneless, 296 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: skinless chicken breast, the fruit juice Fast thirty six hours, 297 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: and it was over the Healthy Food Plan for Life. 298 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: Sixty more years of melon balls for dessert. In the 299 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: last panel, Kathy and Charlene leave the gym looking at 300 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: their diet plans. Crash diets never worked, but at least 301 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: they had an end sixty more years of brand flakes 302 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: and skim milk. The county character's long standing battle with 303 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: body image intersected with two other common themes in the comic, 304 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: fashion and exercise pads. The exercise trends and Cathy's constant 305 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: struggle to abide by them were referenced in the characters 306 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: merchandizing all the Time. I actually owned some of these 307 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: oversized T shirts. One reads body language and shows Kathy 308 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: frantically jazzer sizing as thought bubbles surround her body. They 309 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: say ac grumble, crunch out, and on and on. Another 310 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: T shirt shows five Kathy's a hiker, a walker, a runner, 311 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: a biker, and an eater. Another shirt shows for Kathy's 312 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: one is power stepping one is power walking, one is 313 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: power sliding, and the last is her collapsed on the 314 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: gym floor power outage. So even the merch explicitly references 315 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: that the Kathy character fails but keeps trying. As we 316 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: talked about at the top of this episode, Kathy and 317 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: Irving lent their image to wait Watchers for a couple's 318 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: workout program, and Kathy and Mr Pinkley's images were used 319 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: to promote a weight Watchers at Work program. The character 320 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: tried to keep up with workout trends in the strip. 321 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: She got a home gym, she got an overpriced gym 322 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: membership that she barely used, and at the same time, 323 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: real life workout fads came and went in the US 324 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: think step classes, jazz er size, buns of steel, the 325 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 1: Thigh Master. Richard Simmons piloates the Jane Fonda workout, which 326 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: I did do in Quarantine quite a bit, but I 327 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: hear it's actually not good for you. And then there's 328 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: the subject of fashion. The Kathy character is seen literally 329 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 1: hundreds of times in the strips run looking at herself 330 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: in the mirror of a department store changing room and 331 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: being unhappy with what she sees In many strips. Kathy 332 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: Geiswhite is commenting on the consumer fashion industry itself, how 333 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: it often failed to take anyone but the supermodel into consideration, 334 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 1: and how stores targeted women to pressure them into buying 335 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: an excess of clothes they didn't actually need. Here's an 336 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: example with Kathy talking to the department store employee who 337 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: serves as the service industry character stand in across the 338 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 1: board for the duration of the comic. This one's from 339 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: the seventies. Hi, I'd like some blue jeans. What collar 340 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: do you want? Kathy is behind the changing room partition 341 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: and hands the sales lady a pair of jeans. These 342 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: jeans are great, except they're nine inches too long. Can 343 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: I try the same size, only shorter? Now? The women's 344 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: geans only common wan leg If you want the right length, 345 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 1: you'll have to go with men's jeans. I your pardon, 346 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: living jeans coming one length, men's genes coming all different lengths. 347 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: Does someone out there think all women have the same 348 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: size legs? Now? I guess they just figure out women 349 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,360 Speaker 1: know how to sell. Look, let's just forget it. I'll 350 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: take these, but I want them altered. No candy that either. 351 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: We only do alterations on the men's side. The men 352 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: don't need alterations there janes come the right length. Oh wow, 353 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: and we girls when wear blue jeans. I that one 354 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: of the little things, and we have that one up. 355 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: Kathy's fashion dilemmas are almost always telling of the cultural 356 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: moment they're released into, and that strip we see the 357 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: double standards of second wave feminism, where women are promised 358 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: the genes that men have been wearing, but are still 359 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: met with increased aesthetic pressure. This carries throughout the nine eighties. 360 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: The feminist backlash brought with it a new wave of 361 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: constantly changing fashion trends and pressure put on women of 362 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: all classes to keep up with them. The chronicling very 363 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: specific fashion trends became the norm, and the strip normally 364 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 1: Kathy arrives at the department store only to be frustrated 365 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,959 Speaker 1: by yet another trend made only for thin women, that 366 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: she's expected to spend money on in order to be accepted. 367 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: Here we are in the nineties, Cathy is trying on 368 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: an ill fitting suit with a miniskirt. The same sales 369 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: lady speaks with her. Nothing mirrors our emancipation from the 370 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: workaholic eighties than our quest for the nineties quality of life, 371 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: like the refined women's suit. Every feminine inch says, Oh sure, 372 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: I may be going to a board meeting, but I 373 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: may also be popping out for tea. I may go 374 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: for a stroll in the museum. I may spend the 375 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: afternoon at the theater. In short, it's business attire that 376 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: says I have better things to do with my life 377 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: than sitting this boring office. In the final panel, the 378 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: sales lady places a hat on Cathy's head as Cathy 379 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: checks the price tags on the suit. Cathy rolls her 380 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: eyes and says, for instance, I could go stand in 381 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: the unemployment law. Oh ha ha, here hot pink, your 382 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: lips still look a bit serious. Cathy's experiences in the 383 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: department store comments on everything from shoulder pads in the 384 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: coke days of the eighties to the grunge trend of 385 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: the nineties to my personal favorite, the hot topic got 386 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: trend of the mid two thousand's. But Cathy's most memorable 387 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: brushes with fashion and looking at herself with dissatisfaction was 388 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: in the swimsuit department, a trope so associated with the 389 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: comic that Kathy guys white herself talked about it on 390 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: late night appearances. Here she is with Jay Leno. Look 391 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: at a bathing suits you wants have like a couple 392 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 1: of bathing suit things, ex abaiting suit things. Well, women 393 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: have two main figure problem areas the top half of 394 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: our bodies and the bottom half of our bottom. And 395 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 1: every year the fashion industry finds a way to make 396 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: things worse. You know, it used to be that a 397 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: woman could depend on a one piece suit which at 398 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: least covered more. And now the one piece suits that 399 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: they have out their I'm sure the women in this 400 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: audience have had that experience. If you pull them up 401 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: high enough to cover the top, then the length hoole 402 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 1: comes up to the waist and the entire rear end 403 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: is on displaying when I wait. And if you come 404 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: the top pull the suit down far enough to cover 405 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: the rear, then the top is either smashed as flat 406 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: as a pancake or entirely exposed. And if you find 407 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: that one miraculous bathing suit that that actually covers both 408 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: the top and the rear, then they will have laminated 409 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: a sequin leopard on the stomach with a hole for 410 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: all the flat points out of his mouth, like in 411 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: this clip. Guy's White talked in the strip about how 412 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 1: bathing suit were not made for regular women's bodies, and 413 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: her character tended to interpret this as a frustrating but 414 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,919 Speaker 1: ultimately personal failing. The Kathy character vocalizes her anger that 415 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: swimwear isn't made for her, but ultimately buckles to the 416 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: pressure that it's her who must change, not the fashion industry. 417 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: Here's Kathy bringing a tiny one piece into a changing room. 418 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: She thinks to herself, swimwear shopping Stage one, I want 419 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: a bathing suit that's fabulous, looking, sexy, flirty, and fun. 420 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: Swimwear shopping stage two. I want a bathing suit that's 421 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: attractive and fits my life and personality. In the third panel, 422 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: Cathy is in the changing room after putting the swimsuit on, 423 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: leaning outside the curtain and panicking. Swimwear Shopping Stage three. 424 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: I want something that's not gross. I'll consider anything that 425 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: isn't grows. In the last panel, the curtain of the 426 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: changing room is entirely closed. A narration box reads once again, 427 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: the quest for a bathing suit parallels the search for 428 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: a date. Cathy's voice comes from inside the changing room. Okay, fine, 429 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: A little grows, but not really really grows. This is 430 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: where the Cathy versus stood on body image in the 431 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: ninety nineties, and the merchandizing continued to capitalize on now 432 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: well established connection between the Kathy character and diet culture. 433 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: This brings me to the mother of all Kathy food crossovers. 434 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: I still can't believe this exists. I'm kind of obsessed 435 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: with it. It's a cookbook called and I cannot stress 436 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: this enough Girl Food, Girl Food, Girl Food. I am 437 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: genuinely thrilled to report that this isn't a diet cookbook wholesale. 438 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: There are some low calorie recipes, but there's plenty of 439 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: food as well. It was co authored by Barbara Albright, 440 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: a cookbook author who had also made cookbooks with the 441 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: likes of Regis and Kathy Lee, and with Jim Davis 442 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: on a Garfield cookbook. Girl Food is separated into five 443 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: sections with different recipes according to these themes romance food, 444 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: swimsuit food, sweatsuit food, grown up food, and consolation food. 445 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: The introduction from Kathy S. White reads like this, this 446 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: is the cookbook that speaks to women. Women who want romance, 447 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: women who require chocolate, women who dream of wearing a 448 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: swimsuit somewhere besides the bathroom. Women who need to entertain 449 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: like a sophisticated grown up. Women who want to lie 450 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: on the sofa in a sweatsuit and eat cookie dough 451 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: in short, women whose lives are a little too complex 452 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: to only have one sort of recipe on hand at 453 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: any given moment. The book consists of simple recipes written 454 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: by Barbara Albright, with dishes named by Kathy guys White, 455 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: along with a series of original Kathy cartoons and the 456 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: recipe titles. If I may do not disappoint, Let's get 457 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:45,719 Speaker 1: a music bed, going something vacation e recipe titles from 458 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: the Girl Food Cookbook. While he casually reads the morning paper, 459 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: I'll be silently planning out the course of our entire relationship. Waffles. 460 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: Instead of using the old seran wrap and stiletto heel's 461 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: approach to spice things up, I think I'll try some 462 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: fru dsac asparagus vinagrette. Love means never having to say, 463 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: of course, I like football pork tenderloin. After five hundred 464 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: and two dinners and four hundred and twenty seven cups 465 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: of coffee, I think it's time to get serious. Marry me. Moose, 466 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: always a bridesmaid, never the same size, low calorie cole Slaw. 467 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: Why did I buy an itsy bitsy teeny weeny bikini Linguini? 468 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: That one is my favorite one. I got this book 469 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: five months ago, and I think about that recipe title 470 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: every day of my life. I go to the gym, 471 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: but I seem to have misplaced my energy art to 472 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: choke mushroom tortalini salad. And I woke up late anyway, 473 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: So why bother leaving the house spiced struzel apple bunt 474 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: coffee cake. And look, I haven't cooked any of these recipes. 475 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: But if you don't think that this woman deserves a 476 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: Pulitzer for coming up with why did I buy an 477 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: itsy bitsy teeny weeny bikini Linguini? Turn off the podcast 478 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: Hemingway wishes. So that's the cookbook, and I legally must 479 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: tell you again that it is called girl food. Try 480 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: the most avoid the cole Slaw, trust me. Kathy Guy's 481 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: White towed this line of disparaging diet culture while also 482 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: dipping her toe into it at a time where the 483 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: pressure to consume products diets ideas was reinforced by advertising 484 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: and the women who were advertising clothes were overwhelmingly thin 485 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: and traditionally attractive, going back to that American beauty standard 486 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: that have been taking shape for a hundred fifty years. 487 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: Kathy comics were popular at the same time that supermodels 488 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,719 Speaker 1: reigned supreme over the fashion industry. In our episode on 489 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: the Boomer generation, I spoke with Elanie, a retired ad 490 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: executive from California who was working at a high level 491 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: at the time some of the most successful supermodels in 492 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: history were coming to prominence. Your Christie Brinkley's, your Naomi Campbell's, 493 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: your Cindy Crawford's. While these women were presented to the 494 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: world as care free and effortless, it's commonly known now 495 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: that the modeling industry was, and to a degree remains, 496 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: rooted in promoting disordered eating and food restriction, as well 497 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: as perpetuating racist standards of colorism and featurism in order 498 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: to curate and promote the version of American beauty that 499 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: Kathy was trying to live up to. To better understand 500 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: how these images are constructed, I returned to an interview 501 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: that I did for our episode on Boomers with a 502 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: former ad executive. I'm going to call Melanie, who worked 503 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: high up in the model driven advertising world of the 504 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties and nineties. Here's a little bit of our talk. 505 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: You know, there's a whole whatever. There's so many Kathy 506 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: comics that are about body image and about comparing her 507 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,239 Speaker 1: self to magazine images and commercial images. What was it 508 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: like curating those kinds of images, especially with um the 509 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: beauty products, Revlon Um, Mabeling, I mean, you name it, 510 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: we did at Claire all Um, the Virginia Slims. A 511 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: lot of it was wanting the women, the girls, and 512 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: when it was beauty they had to be eighteen. They 513 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: didn't and some of them they could even slide younger 514 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: than that. If they were younger, if they were fifteen, sixteen. 515 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: They wanted them to look thirty but with no wrinkles. 516 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: So there was a very unrealistic thing of what the 517 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: thirty year old might look like. A thirty year old 518 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: might have a few lines. Um, they might have a 519 00:32:50,960 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: few lines here, um. Breasts were augmented right and left. UM. 520 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: I did a lot of things. I do remember doing 521 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: the first Self magazine cover, and the main thing about 522 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: Self was that I just remember a lot of times 523 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: I would have to ask they need to come in 524 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: in a bathing suit or eliotard because we need to 525 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: see their body. And unless they asked for someone ethnic, 526 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:28,479 Speaker 1: it meant white, okay, just without question, without question, without question, 527 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: there would if they asked for they would ask for 528 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: an ethnicity. Um. If they wanted Hispanic, they would ask Hispanic. 529 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: If they wanted Asian, they would ask Asian. If they 530 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: wanted black, they would ask black. But the black always 531 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: had to have whider features. Much of mainstream advertising, diet culture, 532 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: and the bulk of how women are told to feel 533 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: about their bodies in the West is tied back to 534 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: white colonialism. That's just what it is and what see 535 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: And Kathy is a middle class white woman failing to 536 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: meet an impossible standard. But we didn't see in the 537 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: newspaper funnies very often at all were women who were 538 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: excluded from the notion of American beauty altogether. What I 539 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: feel sure of is that, in spite of occasionally profiting 540 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: from it, Kathy guys White knew that diet culture was bullshit. 541 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: We don't just know this because her heroine fails to 542 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: change her body, but because Guy's white is explicitly telling 543 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: us that it's bullshit, and her work all the time. 544 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: Here's a strip where Kathy, Charlene, and another friend talk 545 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: about their years of monitoring their bodies while getting changed 546 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: for an aerobics class. It will never be like it 547 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: was the first time, Charlene. Yeah, I know, Kathy. I 548 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: was so innocent, so full of hope, and it worked. 549 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: It worked because I didn't sabotage it with analysis and distrust. 550 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: It worked because I just believed it would work. Their 551 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 1: friend walks in and she only catches the end of 552 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: Kathy's sentence, first love, first diet. In the last panel, 553 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: Kathy is inconsolable. I've never even heard of trans fatty 554 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: acids for the Kathy character. Body optimization is a zero 555 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: sum game for American women. Body optimization as a zero 556 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: sum game, and as comfortable as it is to consider 557 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: this an issue of the past, it isn't. Young people 558 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: of all races, genders, classes are still targeted by this 559 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: culture to this day. And you're kidding yourself fifth and 560 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: I'm about to sound five hundred years old, but you're 561 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: kidding yourself if you think we won't be talking about 562 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: the body image repercussions of social media filters and influencers 563 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 1: very soon. They're the most recent way to reinforce those 564 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 1: same standards that white Western men have been pushing four 565 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: hundreds of years. And the gen Z end of this 566 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: story is still unfolding, But I feel pretty comfortable saying 567 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: at millennials have been pretty firmly fucked up by the 568 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: body standards they grew up around. The good news is 569 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: that the body positivity movement and fat activism is firing 570 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: on more cylinders than at any other time in history. 571 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: There's now a number of prominent celebrities that are rejecting 572 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: diet culture and embracing themselves, emphasizing that their self worth 573 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: and personal health are what take precedent over aesthetics, and 574 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: activists who are demanding fair treatment. Legally, that's not nothing, 575 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,879 Speaker 1: because that's not the messaging that most millennials and all 576 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 1: previous generations received in magazines and pop culture when they 577 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: were growing up. Fun fact about me, I used to 578 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 1: work at Playboy magazine as a fact checker. They paid 579 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: me ten dollars an hour before taxes. Anyways, the time 580 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: that millennials became media cognizant in the late nineties through 581 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 1: the early twenty tons, depending on when you were born, 582 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: we're actually kind of a low on how rigid body 583 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: standards were enforced. Here's a viral tweet from writer Lucy 584 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: Huber from a few months ago that I think sums 585 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: this up really nicely. If any gen z you're wondering 586 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: why every millennial woman has needing disorder, it's because in 587 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: the two thousand's, a normal thing to say to a 588 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 1: teenage girl was when you think you feel hungry, you're 589 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,800 Speaker 1: actually thirsty, So just drink water and you'll be fine. 590 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: There's a great essay on this topic by the wonderful 591 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: writer Ann Helen Peterson called the millennial vernacular of fat phobia. 592 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 1: She begins by talking about how a cover of seventeen 593 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: magazine from the summer of featured a photo of a 594 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: quote unquote regular girl on the cover. This girl is 595 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: still sis, white, thin and wearing a bikini, but I 596 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 1: guess isn't quite the supermodel level of thinness. Honestly, I 597 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't have guessed that until Peterson draws your attention to 598 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: the fact that this was very deliberately done by seventeen 599 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,280 Speaker 1: their reason to be inclusive of other kinds of bodies. 600 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 1: A link of photo of this cover, because it truly 601 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,720 Speaker 1: is like what that just looks like a model? Peterson writes, 602 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,399 Speaker 1: if this body was non ideal, I remember thinking, then 603 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: what was mine? This is a question that Kathy geist 604 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: White seeks to answer through her characters with varying degrees 605 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,800 Speaker 1: of success, because she did sometimes profit from the diet 606 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: culture that she criticized. Cathy's Trips, as you know by 607 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,839 Speaker 1: Now ended in two thousand and ten. But I'd be 608 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: interested to see how the character would have received the 609 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 1: body positivity and wellness movements that became prominent in the 610 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,839 Speaker 1: through now. Anne Helen Peterson sites writer Sarah Miller's New 611 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: York Times essay the diet industrial Complex got me and 612 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 1: it will never let me go. Miller writes, this suddenly 613 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: about a decade ago, when I started to notice that 614 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: fat women were a calling themselves fat with pride and 615 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,280 Speaker 1: be walking down the streets of our nation's great cities, 616 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: nonchalantly wearing tight or revealing clothing with a general air 617 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: of yeah, I will wear this, and I will wear 618 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 1: whatever I want. And I am hot too. I will 619 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 1: be hot forever, long after you have all died. I 620 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 1: thought to myself, Oh my god, what the solution is 621 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,920 Speaker 1: not the diet I started seeing fat, beautiful models and 622 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: actresses and catalogs and on television shows. I would have 623 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: liked to see more, but I was pleased to see 624 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: them at all. I was and remain in awe of 625 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 1: their confident beauty. I feel tenderness for them as well, 626 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: for what they endured and still endured to achieve it. 627 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 1: I sometimes choke up with love for them and for 628 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 1: the idea of how I could have lived if I 629 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: had allowed myself to just weigh what I weighed. It's 630 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: worth acknowledging that this is not and I can't think 631 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,919 Speaker 1: of a worse phrase to use here, so I apologize. 632 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,240 Speaker 1: But this is not a one size fits all ideology, 633 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: and everyone has a pretty personal connection to how body 634 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: standards and diet culture have affected them specifically. I started 635 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 1: disordered eating when I was eight years old, and I'm 636 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: trying to push past it. I still have these vivid 637 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: memories of how women's bodies were discussed by other people. 638 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 1: I don't know why this is the thing that's stuck 639 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: with me, but there's a very specific episode of Family 640 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: Guide that informed my anorexia through high school. This ship 641 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:20,320 Speaker 1: is hard to shake and and it's still everywhere Marissa Metzer, 642 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: who we spoke with earlier, has written on modern body 643 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: positivity and how wellness culture that's popular right now tends 644 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: to rebrand old diet culture standbys extensively, and she spoke 645 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: with me about how the body positivity movement has affected 646 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: her on a personal level. Here's some of our conversation. 647 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: When coupled with something like Instagram, which is so visual, 648 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: there was this kind of bastardization where instead of being 649 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: about um, you know, the idea that any body is 650 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 1: entitled to exist and live and not harassed and you know, 651 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: right on roller coasters and wear great clothes and all 652 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: of that, the message was becoming more and more about just, 653 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 1: you know, I love myself. And it was so often 654 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 1: in the guys of you know, attractive women who had 655 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 1: proportionate our glass bodies, you know, like selfies with your like, 656 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 1: you know, boyfriend with like a David Beckham haircut, and 657 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 1: he's like, you know, like scaring your crevide or whatever. 658 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 1: Like it just drove me crazy and I started, you know, 659 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 1: thinking about it critically because I was just feeling like, 660 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: not only am I a failure um at dieting, and 661 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: that I can't keep the weight off and I, you know, 662 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,479 Speaker 1: at all diet and I'll stop dieting and I'll diet again. Um, 663 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: but I'm also a failure at loving myself. You know. 664 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,280 Speaker 1: This idea of like failure on top of fail Elier 665 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,360 Speaker 1: was really interesting to me and really pled me, and 666 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 1: frankly still does. I think the core that I come 667 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 1: to is that our relationship with our bodies is of 668 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,319 Speaker 1: course going to feel really important and really central, which 669 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,400 Speaker 1: is why something like the idea of body neutrality is 670 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 1: hard for me, because I'm never going to feel neutral 671 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: about my body, and so we have this really important 672 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,919 Speaker 1: relationship with our body, but at the same time we're 673 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: told to just kind of like manage our feelings with it, 674 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,880 Speaker 1: is if that's something that's easy to do or to change. 675 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,719 Speaker 1: To be clear here, fat activism and body positivity are 676 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: not the same movement. Fat activists have criticized the body 677 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,360 Speaker 1: positivity movement for lacking an explicit political goal. It's a 678 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 1: complicated topic, and I encourage you to learn more about 679 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,720 Speaker 1: the activist work that's being done. With all that in mind, 680 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: it's pretty is safe to say that the Kathy character 681 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:08,359 Speaker 1: never had body positivity in her vocabulary, much less fat activist, 682 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: and the very fact that these movements have continued to 683 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 1: thrive and grow is a testament to hard one progress. 684 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,400 Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that the hundreds and arguably thousands 685 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: of years connected to controlling and mothering women's bodies just 686 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: goes away in a handful of years. One of the 687 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,760 Speaker 1: most talented actors and comedians working today is jannasch Meeting, 688 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: who is currently on Rutherford Falls on Peacock. You should 689 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 1: watch it, and she gave an interview with Bona Petite 690 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,280 Speaker 1: recently about her experience as a mini Kanju and Lakota 691 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,600 Speaker 1: woman and her evolving relationship with food. Her sadly defunct 692 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: podcast is called Woman of Size and is another I 693 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 1: would strongly recommend. But I've been thinking about this interview 694 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: for weeks and it came right to my mind when 695 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,320 Speaker 1: I sat down to record this. Jenna says this, there's 696 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 1: a direct link between culture and anti blackness and anti indigenousity. 697 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,919 Speaker 1: The Settler Gaze Center's piety and purity in the way that, 698 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: especially for women, means you have to be anti savage. 699 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 1: It says you should practice control and suppression over food. 700 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: Over all of these that we find joy in over 701 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: a lot of the things that were celebrated by indigenous 702 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 1: people and enslaved African people. Later in the interview, she continues, 703 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 1: I can't stand the rhetoric that food is fuel. It 704 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 1: is directly linked to weight loss and what I would 705 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,239 Speaker 1: call white wellness culture, which I feel is a very 706 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:40,960 Speaker 1: hard thing to vilify because then people think your anti wellness. Well, 707 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,879 Speaker 1: how come we're not looking at wellness more holistically? How 708 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: are we not looking at justice as well We're not 709 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,360 Speaker 1: looking at restoring food ways as wellness, We're not looking 710 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,640 Speaker 1: at reparations as wellness. And that doesn't make any sense 711 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 1: to me. I mean, I sure as hell can't say 712 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 1: it better than that. The Cathy's Trip always seemed aware 713 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 1: that the issues that Cathy had with her body, with 714 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,840 Speaker 1: her job stress, with her spending habit to look the 715 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,320 Speaker 1: right way in a body she didn't like, at a 716 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 1: job she felt stressed out at, were all connected. What 717 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,320 Speaker 1: challenged readers is that she never overcame it. But honestly, 718 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,600 Speaker 1: especially in this era, how many people did. Here's a 719 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,960 Speaker 1: strip from the nineties featuring Cathy at her desk, snacking 720 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,279 Speaker 1: and surrounded by a tall pile of work in the 721 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:32,400 Speaker 1: form of loose leaf paper. She thinks this to herself. Problem. 722 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 1: Over eating cause job stress problem, overspending cause job stress problem, 723 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:52,879 Speaker 1: crankiness cause job stress problem, exhaustion, disorganization, wrinkles to decay, 724 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: eroding social skills, hostility, flab cause job stressed, job stress, 725 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,560 Speaker 1: job stress, job stress, And the last panel, Cathy relaxes 726 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: and smiles. On the bright side, I believe I've identified 727 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 1: or remarkably productive area of my career. So here's the thing. 728 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:17,480 Speaker 1: American beauty standards are unquestionably racist and fat phobic distractions 729 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,560 Speaker 1: intended to perpetuate white supremacy and drain women of their 730 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 1: capital to fit a randomized normal made up by some guy. 731 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,720 Speaker 1: But it's one thing to know it, and it's another 732 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 1: thing to untrain it. It's not impossible, as demonstrated by 733 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,560 Speaker 1: some of the people I've talked with and about, but 734 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,319 Speaker 1: it's hard, and to people who are still struggling with it, 735 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,839 Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. If this is your first 736 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,040 Speaker 1: time hearing about a lot of this, I hope it's 737 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,680 Speaker 1: a start for you. But as it always has, it 738 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,320 Speaker 1: still makes a lot of assholes a lot of money, 739 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,839 Speaker 1: making people feel like shit about themselves. Kathy guys. White 740 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,160 Speaker 1: knew that, and so did her heroine, but it didn't 741 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 1: stop either from trying to meet that impossible standard. In 742 00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,920 Speaker 1: their heyday, this was talked about as a sign of 743 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,680 Speaker 1: woman's hope, but in retrospect I see it more as 744 00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:11,760 Speaker 1: a commiseration with others over an inevitable defeat. So thank you, Kathy. 745 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 1: It's nice to know that other people are feeling like 746 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:19,480 Speaker 1: shit about themselves, even in the fictional realm. You're welcome, 747 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,760 Speaker 1: and they were all being ridiculous. You're extremely hot. Look, 748 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,279 Speaker 1: it's been eleven years since the comic ended. I know, 749 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:30,960 Speaker 1: I fuck, and that's our gal. In spite of the haters, 750 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,160 Speaker 1: the Kathy comics were able to pull rightful frustration at 751 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,279 Speaker 1: ridiculous standards and put them in the newspaper every day. 752 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,080 Speaker 1: But that was not an opportunity available to everyone. Next week, 753 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,359 Speaker 1: I'm going to speak with artists who have worked through 754 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,839 Speaker 1: other channels to get their semi autobiographical work out there 755 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,239 Speaker 1: and how works like Kathy and from within your own 756 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:54,760 Speaker 1: communities made it possible. Artists telling their stories in zines, 757 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,880 Speaker 1: web comics, and more. That's next week on act Cast. 758 00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 1: Why did I buy an itsy Bitsy teeny Weeny Bikini Linguini, 759 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:12,080 Speaker 1: Oh My God. Act Cast is an I Heart Radio production. 760 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: It is written, researched, and hosted by me Jamie Loftus. 761 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,920 Speaker 1: Sophia Lichtman is the best producer on the planet, Isaac 762 00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,280 Speaker 1: Taylor is the best editor on the planet. Zoe Blade 763 00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,320 Speaker 1: writes the best music on the planet, and Brandon Dickert 764 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,840 Speaker 1: wrote the best theme ever written. In this episode, you 765 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,760 Speaker 1: heard the vocal talents of Sharene Lonnie unas Maggie Cannon, 766 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,680 Speaker 1: Isaac Taylor, and Julia Claire. Our cast is Jackie Michelle 767 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:43,320 Speaker 1: Johnson as Kathy, Melissa Lozada Oliva as Andrea, and Maggie 768 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,359 Speaker 1: Mayfish as Charlene and the Sales Lady. See you next week.