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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to

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Speaker 1: all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist,

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Speaker 1: which you can find a link to in the show

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Speaker 1: notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced

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Speaker 1: in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect all right.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy the episode. It's been ten years since Arcade fires

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Speaker 1: exceptional third album, The Suburbs, earned a Grammy for Album

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Speaker 1: of the Year. It's a distinction that helps catapult the

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Speaker 1: quirky indie rock band from Montreal into one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest bands and the world that's ready to start from

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Speaker 1: the Suburbs. With the string of chart topping conceptual albums

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Speaker 1: and a live show that's arguably unmatched by any other

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Speaker 1: modern rock band. Arcade Fire's genius can be attributed to

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Speaker 1: their tireless work ethic, a collective musical mastery, and lead

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Speaker 1: singer Win Butler's total surrender to an elusive musical spirit.

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Speaker 1: Win Butler spoke with Rick Rubin from his home studio

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Speaker 1: in New Orleans, where he lives with his wife and

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Speaker 1: band member Regine Chassan. When describes the night he and

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Speaker 1: Regine wrote the first songs together, explains why he set

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Speaker 1: out to be the weak link in the band. Why

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Speaker 1: the only place he would ever talk to Bob Dylan

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Speaker 1: is side stage at an arcade fire show. This is

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Speaker 1: broken record liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond.

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Speaker 1: Here's Rick Ruben's conversation with Win Butler. What's happening? Man? Hello? Hello?

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Speaker 1: Where are you? I'm in New Orleans? Oh nice? How

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Speaker 1: long have you lived there? Five years or something? How's

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Speaker 1: it been? I love it? It's funny. Or like when

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Speaker 1: COVID started, I started watching like New Orleans films because

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Speaker 1: I like miss New Orleans, miss New Orleans so much.

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Speaker 1: It's like, even though I live here, I'm like, it's

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Speaker 1: a manzie And how much of the city is just

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Speaker 1: in the people? Yeah? How did you choose to move there?

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Speaker 1: So Regie, my wife who's in the band, my partner

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Speaker 1: is her family from Haiti and she grew up in Montreal,

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Speaker 1: so she's sort of Francophone Haitian. And when we were

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Speaker 1: working on the Suburbs, we did a road trip from

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Speaker 1: Houston to New Orleans and we sort of got to

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Speaker 1: we kind of got to near Lafayette, like the kind

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Speaker 1: of like creole zydeco country, and we went to these

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Speaker 1: like clubs, these little zydeco clubs, and it's like all

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Speaker 1: black kids singing in French. And she understood everything from

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Speaker 1: the Haitian side and the Quebec side and were just

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Speaker 1: like like this weird family tree sort of thing. And

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Houston, so it's sort of like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, we both feel really at home here.

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Speaker 1: For it's like just feels like our natural place. Is

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Speaker 1: the Haitian connection stronger even than in Montreal. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot more Haitians in Montreal, like there's more of a

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Speaker 1: community and culture, but the kind of spiritual like the

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Speaker 1: old like you kind of have all this eighteen hundreds

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Speaker 1: Haitian culture here that's like kind of like really deep

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Speaker 1: more this spiritual spiritual piece of it is really strong here, beautiful.

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Speaker 1: What's your connection to spirituality or do you have any

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Speaker 1: or have you ever had any? I kind of like

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Speaker 1: my parents, my mom's my mom's family. So my grandfather

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Speaker 1: was Alvino Ray, who was a big band leader. He

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Speaker 1: was actually one of two jazz guitarists in New York City,

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Speaker 1: like in the twenties. He was like one of the

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Speaker 1: first people that played jazz on a guitar, and my

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Speaker 1: grandmother was a singer and the King Sisters, and so

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Speaker 1: my mom kind of grew up in this musical like

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Speaker 1: very musical family. They were on television like musical Overload.

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Speaker 1: My mom's a harpist, jazz harpist. And my dad's family

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Speaker 1: is from Maine, like they're like boat like island people,

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Speaker 1: like Harvard academic East Coast sort of people. And my

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Speaker 1: mom my mom's family's Mormon, but I kind of call

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Speaker 1: them like Martini Mormons, like they were like jazz Mormons.

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Speaker 1: You know. I kind of grew up exposed like going

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Speaker 1: to Mormon church, but my dad never went, and my

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Speaker 1: dad was like completely agnostic and like kind of like

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Speaker 1: have fun guys sort of vibe. And then as I

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Speaker 1: kind of got older, I went away to boarding school

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Speaker 1: and I ended up like I studied my degrees actually

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Speaker 1: in religious studies, because I ended up sort of in philosophy.

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Speaker 1: And then the more I studied philosophy, the more I

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Speaker 1: realized it all just kind of came back to the Bible. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, at least I should at least

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Speaker 1: understand what this shit is talking about, because like that's

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Speaker 1: what all of Western culture is referencing. I don't know

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Speaker 1: there were there is. I mean, music is a spirit,

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Speaker 1: like that is what it is, and that's one of

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Speaker 1: the things that brought me to New Orleans. It's like,

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Speaker 1: you really don't feel like a crazy person feeling that way,

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Speaker 1: because like it's self evident. But I think it's become

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Speaker 1: my spirituality has become very churchless and very kind of like,

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Speaker 1: you know more. I've studied a lot of different stuff,

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Speaker 1: but I probably know more about the Bible than I should.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's informed your songwriting? Yeah, definitely. I

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Speaker 1: mean I think it enables you to be kind of

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Speaker 1: crazy enough to think of it as a vocation, which,

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Speaker 1: even even if you're full of shit, at least it

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Speaker 1: gives you a purpose. Let's talk about the difference between

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Speaker 1: how a song would come about on the last album

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Speaker 1: versus the first album. On the first album, might it

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Speaker 1: be acoustic guitar, singing, playing and finding a song? Would

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Speaker 1: it start with lyrics? What would be your typical process

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Speaker 1: then most recently versus traditionally? So the song everything Now

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Speaker 1: was I was actually I started I started Djane, we

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Speaker 1: did a record with James Murphy and and I kind

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Speaker 1: of started actually listening to music and clubs, and like

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Speaker 1: I remember hearing Doctor Dre in a club for the

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Speaker 1: first time, and I was like, what the fuck, that's

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Speaker 1: what that shit sounds like. I had no fucking idea,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, oh shit, Like I knew it was great,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't know that that's what it sounded like.

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Speaker 1: You know. So it's like when you hear what it

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Speaker 1: sounds like and you start to get the production connection

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Speaker 1: between the speaker is the last It's like you're making

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Speaker 1: some shit that hits the speaker, and the speaker is

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Speaker 1: actually what's doing the last bit of the word. And

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Speaker 1: so I was actually working on a remix. There's a

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Speaker 1: Francis Bay bass song called Coffee Kola that's like kind

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Speaker 1: of this beautiful pigmy flute. It's like kind of a beatbox.

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Speaker 1: It's this French African singer. And as I was working

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Speaker 1: on the remix, I started playing all these different chords

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Speaker 1: over this little loop and I just started singing a

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Speaker 1: melody that was completely unrelated to the song and it

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Speaker 1: was just its own song. It took me minute to

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Speaker 1: even realize it was a song because I wasn't thinking.

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Speaker 1: I didn't I'd never hadn't really worked on sample based

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Speaker 1: music before, and it was like it felt like a

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Speaker 1: like a tool. I don't know, the way that playing

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Speaker 1: the guitar felt for me, like when I was fifteen.

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Speaker 1: It felt like that. It was like it was like,

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Speaker 1: oh wait, this is just a tool, like any other tool,

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Speaker 1: but it was like the melody and the lyrical point

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Speaker 1: of view and everything was like all there. But then

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Speaker 1: even just to accept that it was a song took

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Speaker 1: like six months. We ended up working with Tomah from

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Speaker 1: Daft Punk, and we did we did the big session

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Speaker 1: for that record in his studio in Paris, which is

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Speaker 1: like the most amazing studio I've ever been in. It's amazing,

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Speaker 1: And we actually got Francis Baby's son, who plays the

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Speaker 1: same instrument, to come to the studio to play with us,

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Speaker 1: and so we didn't actually end up using the sample

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Speaker 1: and so we're like kind of like thinking about it

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Speaker 1: very cerebrally and just like oh, like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I feel like there's this very PC like is this

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Speaker 1: appropriative to us an Africans, Like I don't, it's like

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Speaker 1: this MPR think or some shit. And then Patrick Baby

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Speaker 1: walks in the room with his flute and we play

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Speaker 1: in the song and he's like almost like weeping and

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Speaker 1: just like starts playing the song with us, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, no, this is fucking what's up, you know,

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Speaker 1: and like just I don't know. So that was like

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Speaker 1: a really beautiful, really long process where it took almost

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Speaker 1: like a year or to even realize it was a

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Speaker 1: song or something. Amazing was the last album the first

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Speaker 1: album that that experience happened totally. I mean that that

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Speaker 1: was the first time I would have ever been I mean,

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Speaker 1: since I was much younger where I would have even

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Speaker 1: really been I don't know, even the idea of remixing

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Speaker 1: something or like kind of changing the context of something

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Speaker 1: as a thing that would have spent time on, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have been practicing that. That's I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: just constantly trying to feel like an amateur. It's like

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Speaker 1: you just like I don't know what it's like. The

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Speaker 1: first time I heard Nirvana, my takeaway was like I

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Speaker 1: don't need to play a guitar solo, Like I like

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Speaker 1: my least was like fuck a guitar solo. Not that

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Speaker 1: guitar solos aren't great, but I'm just like, there's it

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Speaker 1: was more just like wanting to feel like like I

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Speaker 1: never really learned to play the guitar. I've never really

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Speaker 1: gotten any better at any instrument. Like I've almost like

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Speaker 1: studiously maintained my amateur noss so I can like pick

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Speaker 1: something up being like how does this work? And so

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Speaker 1: that becomes sort of part of the process. And I

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Speaker 1: just everyone in my band is smarter than me and

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Speaker 1: better at every instrument, Like I wanted to be in

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Speaker 1: a band with wherever I was the weak link musically

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Speaker 1: or something. I don't know, like like I like the

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Speaker 1: people that I've When I met Regie, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you're smart at me about everything, So like you just

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Speaker 1: want to surround yourself with people that are smarter than you.

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Speaker 1: Did you guys start in a relationship or did you

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Speaker 1: start in the band and be come together? How what

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Speaker 1: was the timing of it? It was the same. I

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Speaker 1: went to Sarah Lawrence College, which is like super like

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Speaker 1: post art school, like outside of New York City. It

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Speaker 1: was like seventy thirty female to male. Jordan Peel was

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Speaker 1: actually in my class, and I got there and I

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Speaker 1: was just like I just spent all my time making

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Speaker 1: four track recordings and like not going to class and

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Speaker 1: I was just like, this is stupid. So I basically

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Speaker 1: dropped out and started a BAM with my high school

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Speaker 1: friend and then sort of ended up moving to Montreal.

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Speaker 1: I actually never even thought about Canada. Yeah, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: like I'm gonna move to Canada one day or like,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't really I didn't know shit about Montreal. I

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Speaker 1: didn't even really know that it was French, really like

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Speaker 1: really like I knew, but I didn't like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: because you're American, so of course, how would you know.

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Speaker 1: We don't learn, We don't learn that. I grew up

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Speaker 1: in Texas. I took Texas history, like I can tell

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Speaker 1: you about the fucking Battle of San Jacento, but like

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Speaker 1: I don't know anything about European history, like you know.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so I was just like this idiot American

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Speaker 1: and like moving to Cannon in the winter, just like fuck,

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Speaker 1: it's fucking gold here, like what's going on? And I

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Speaker 1: would just I would. I would go to the music

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Speaker 1: to McGill, to the music school and just hang out

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Speaker 1: outside the drummer rooms trying to find a drummer, just

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Speaker 1: listen to people practice drums for like hours. And I

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Speaker 1: was in the cafeteria and Regime was actually studying jazz

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Speaker 1: at at McGill. She's like, who the fuck is this

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Speaker 1: six foot five guy in a cowboy hat, Like he

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Speaker 1: definitely doesn't go to school here. And I saw her

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Speaker 1: and I went up to her and I was describing

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Speaker 1: to her like the kind of music I wanted to make,

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Speaker 1: and and she I think she was suspicious of like

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Speaker 1: you know, she was like, uh, I mean I said

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Speaker 1: all things that she would have been in. I probably

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Speaker 1: said like like it would have been like Neil Young

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Speaker 1: the Pixies, classical music, fucking you know, radiohead, Like it

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Speaker 1: would have been like a weird hodgepodge of whatever I

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Speaker 1: was into. She was like, well, I might know someone

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Speaker 1: who plays drums. She gave me your number and she

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Speaker 1: never called me back or anything. And then I happened

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Speaker 1: to be at an art opening at the art school

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Speaker 1: and she was singing like like she had like a

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Speaker 1: jazz trio that she was singing for like a baronessage

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Speaker 1: like for a art opening. And I saw her singing,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I went up to her afterwards. I

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Speaker 1: was like, we have to play music together, like I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna call you again. And she came over to my

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Speaker 1: apartment and I played her a bunch of songs and

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Speaker 1: she was like, oh shit, this guy is not full

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Speaker 1: of shit. Like you know, I don't even remember what

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Speaker 1: I played her, but we ended up writing a couple

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Speaker 1: of songs like that night, and it was pretty much

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Speaker 1: like that was it. You know, we were kind of

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Speaker 1: I mean, it took a long time to put it

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Speaker 1: all together, but from there it was just like we

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Speaker 1: were just sort of in it, you know. And now

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Speaker 1: it's twenty twenty and you have a kid. You have

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Speaker 1: a kid, and it's a global pandemic. And he moved

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Speaker 1: and he moved back to the states Man. He told

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Speaker 1: me I would move back to the South. I was like,

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Speaker 1: get the fuck out of here. I'm going as far

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Speaker 1: as I can't, Like, I'm going to fucking Montreal, like

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Speaker 1: fu fuck Texas. But and now ironically we're planning on

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Speaker 1: going back to Texas to make the next record during

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Speaker 1: the elections. So that'll be fun. We'll be back after

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Speaker 1: a quick break. We're back with Rick Rubin and Wynn Butler,

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Speaker 1: who were the other big inspirations for you. Actually, I

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Speaker 1: found I found recently a flyer that we put up

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Speaker 1: in Montreal. When we were looking for musicians, we were

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Speaker 1: kind of looking for We had the band, but we

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Speaker 1: were looking for orchestral musicians. We were looking for like

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Speaker 1: I don't know, like a violinist or or someone who

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Speaker 1: played woodwins or we just wanted some other color in

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Speaker 1: the band. And it was like we listed ore. It

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Speaker 1: was like this funny flyer that Regia and I made

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying to remember it was on there, but

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Speaker 1: it was like the Pixies, Debuc Neil Young, Motown and

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Speaker 1: Dylan those that was was on the list, like looking

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Speaker 1: for orchestral musicians with like those influences, you know. And

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm like, it's pretty like a new order, a

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Speaker 1: new order that was the other vand and when I

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Speaker 1: look at our shit, I'm like pretty on point, Like

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Speaker 1: that's pretty much. That's sort of like the it's a

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Speaker 1: big it's actually a really big sandbox to play with,

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Speaker 1: like if you stretch the edges of those. And then

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Speaker 1: the other piece is really like Caribbean music and Haitian

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Speaker 1: music and like and that sort of poll of Regime's background,

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Speaker 1: and then in there it's like it's almost too much.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, too much, real estate in here.

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Speaker 1: What would be the electronic music that has come in

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Speaker 1: since that gets added? I mean I would say that,

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Speaker 1: you know, for me, like Radiohead and Bork Buyork is

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Speaker 1: like to me like Bowie Incarnate, like you know, talk

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Speaker 1: about not give you a fuck and just being like

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Speaker 1: sticking to your guns and shit, Like I I feel

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Speaker 1: like York slaughters, you know, she's so fucking tough and hardcore.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess like kid A and Homogenic and

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Speaker 1: like those records would have been, those would have been

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Speaker 1: deep in there. I mean, I feel like kraft Work

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Speaker 1: is probably the most there is no modern music without Kraftwork.

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Speaker 1: That's like the if you triangulate all EDM and hip

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Speaker 1: hop and every like craft Works the fucking and who

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Speaker 1: would think this weird German minimalist electronic group is like

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Speaker 1: But they're at the crossroad of all of it. You know,

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Speaker 1: if they got like a tenth of a penny on

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Speaker 1: all that shit they like, they should, you know, they

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Speaker 1: should be buildings in Berlin with the Craftwork logo on

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Speaker 1: them and the fact that it's as funky as it

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Speaker 1: is considering how coldly programmed it is, it makes no

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Speaker 1: fucking sense. I don't. I still don't quite understand it.

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Speaker 1: But I mean it's like the funkiness is in the

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Speaker 1: space because it's like actually realized that would kneel some

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Speaker 1: of Neil shit, like the swing even he always the

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Speaker 1: same beat, but if it's it's more of a soul

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Speaker 1: it's actually a slowed down it's like you're playing soul

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Speaker 1: music but really Stone like it's actually there is actually

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Speaker 1: like a kind of funky swing to the ship that

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Speaker 1: he does. It's not just a straight thing. There's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a lilt to it. Like the thing

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Speaker 1: in New Orleans which is so amazing is that all

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Speaker 1: the there's all the second line music, which is like

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Speaker 1: people like normally today, if it wasn't COVID, I would

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Speaker 1: hear there'd be a band in the street and people

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Speaker 1: just go through the neighborhood and drink, and you follow

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Speaker 1: the band around and you either play kick drum snare

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Speaker 1: or you play you play kick drum with a with

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Speaker 1: a with a high hat symbol with a screwdriver that's

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Speaker 1: like one instrument, and then or you play the snare

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Speaker 1: or you play and so if you if you're a

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Speaker 1: kit drummer from New Orleans, you started monophonically just playing

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Speaker 1: the kick or just playing the snare, and so the dude,

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Speaker 1: but everything so spread out physically that in order to

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Speaker 1: play in the pocket, the pocket is really slow and behind.

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Speaker 1: Everything's really behind because because the physical distance, there's latency

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Speaker 1: between the tuba and the kick drum and whatever. So

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Speaker 1: the pocket is like this like super behind. Like you're like,

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Speaker 1: how the funk this possibly groove and it like it's

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Speaker 1: the exact point where it grooves. And then if you

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Speaker 1: learn to play the kit after you're coming from a

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Speaker 1: monophonic kick drum, and then you're putting it together. And

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Speaker 1: that's why all those New Orleans, like all the La

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Speaker 1: Studio dudes, like there's New Orleans dudes are just like

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Speaker 1: because they played the fucking kick drum for like five

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Speaker 1: years before they learn how to play the kit, and

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Speaker 1: then you put it together, and so you're thinking about

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Speaker 1: it as these different instruments as opposed to one instrument,

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Speaker 1: and like and then you hear people some of these

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Speaker 1: old dudes play at the Preservation Hall and I'm like

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Speaker 1: watching this dude, he's like ninety years old, loading out

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Speaker 1: his own kid at the end of the night, and

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Speaker 1: I'm watching and play, I'm like, who the fuck is

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Speaker 1: that guy? And he's like, oh, he played on every

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Speaker 1: Ray Charles record, like like he just like the fucking most.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm almost like crying just watching him play this

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Speaker 1: traditional song, and it's like, Oh, that's why, that's that's

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Speaker 1: what's up. Isn't it remarkable that you can hear you

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Speaker 1: don't have to know any backstory, and you hear it

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Speaker 1: and you know, oh, this is different than everything else,

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00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,919
Speaker 1: and it's something else music a million times, but I'm like,

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Speaker 1: but that dude, who the fuck is that dude? It's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: he's one of the best drummers in the world. Who

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Speaker 1: ever lived? That? No one's ever heard of? Who does

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Speaker 1: you know? I can remember I was listening to a

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Speaker 1: station of I know very little about classical music. I

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Speaker 1: like classical music and I listened to it a lot,

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Speaker 1: but I know very little about it. And I was

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Speaker 1: listening and a piece came on that just felt better,

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Speaker 1: not written better, not even necessarily performed better, but there

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Speaker 1: was something about It's like, oh, this is different than

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Speaker 1: everything that's played all day. And then I find out

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Speaker 1: who does the arrangement and it turns out to be

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Speaker 1: this guy at clauds Argerment, and I asked some friends

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Speaker 1: of mine who know about this stuff. He's like, oh,

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00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: of course, clouds Arga. It's of course he's the master.

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Speaker 1: He's the guy who taught everybody. So it's like you

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Speaker 1: can hear it. It's um, it's innate in the in

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00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 1: the dna of it, that that energy. Yeah, but most

356
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Speaker 1: of us just feel it. So it's like you feel

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Speaker 1: sad and you don't know why or you like you

358
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Speaker 1: just feel like it just it just gets it out

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Speaker 1: of you. Regine. Regine is like I mean, she grew

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Speaker 1: up none of her family's musical, but she she's just

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Speaker 1: a savant who like taught herself to play Mozart when

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Speaker 1: she was five in the basement on a weird or

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Speaker 1: Like she's just like one of these can play any instrument.

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Speaker 1: She started playing drums like two weeks before we started

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Speaker 1: recording Funeral, and she plays drums on half that record,

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Speaker 1: like she'd never played a drum kid, and she's like,

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00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,200
Speaker 1: I can play a drum kid, give me the drums. Um.

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Speaker 1: But she's studied composition, she was at McGill, studied classical music.

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Speaker 1: But she has this like kind of she'll hear and

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Speaker 1: it's like the arrange the performance of the orchestra, and

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Speaker 1: she's like, fuck, it's like nails on a chalkboard because

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Speaker 1: she knows like all the minutia of like the feeling.

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Speaker 1: It's not just the notes on the page. It's like

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Speaker 1: it's like the conducting and how it's played and like

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00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 1: all that shit is like where the soul of it is.

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Speaker 1: But I'm just sort of like fantasious school, Like I'm

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Speaker 1: just like I really like Fantasia, you know, like any

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Speaker 1: any shows that you can remember throughout your life that

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Speaker 1: really impressed or inspired you live. I didn't really go

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Speaker 1: to any show when I was a kid. I was

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Speaker 1: in the suburbs of Houston. If you can't drive, you

382
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,240
Speaker 1: can't do shit in Houston, like like until you can drive,

383
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 1: it's like you're a prisoner. And shows would come through

384
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Speaker 1: town and I would like read them out in the paper.

385
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Speaker 1: I'm like, man, I wish I could figure out how

386
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,840
Speaker 1: to get to that. I just I couldn't figure it out.

387
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,199
Speaker 1: And then I went to boarding school and that was

388
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Speaker 1: like not shows, you know. It was like I played

389
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Speaker 1: in a cover band and there were bands on campus

390
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 1: and ship, but wasn't like I was going to shows.

391
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Speaker 1: So for me, like when I moved to Montreal, that

392
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: was really my first like real punk rock music scene.

393
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Speaker 1: And there's a band in Montreal called wolfridd and we

394
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Speaker 1: played with them the first time they ever played their

395
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 1: first show. They just moved from Vancouver and they were

396
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 1: on the bill and I was in the bathroom and

397
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: I was just like hearing it through the wall and

398
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,719
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, what the fuck is that? And

399
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 1: that was like the first band I heard there where

400
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Speaker 1: I was like, we gotta get our ship together. And

401
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 1: so like there was a band called The Unicorns. There's

402
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 1: a band called the Hidden Cameras. It's like a queer

403
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,919
Speaker 1: like fifteen piece queer kind of folk band, and they

404
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 1: would only play in porn theaters and it was like

405
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: kind of sounded like almost like Christian religious music but

406
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 1: like all about golden showers, and like, man, I'll put

407
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 1: I'll put that band up against ninety percent of the

408
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,159
Speaker 1: shit I've seen on planets, Like you just you're like

409
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 1: you're assaulted by how mediocre your ship is, like because

410
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 1: they were just like just like going so fucking hard.

411
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: There was a lot of like really people really doing

412
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 1: it and being on the ground. I don't know, I

413
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: feel like some of that's lost. I don't even know

414
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: how you would ever do anything if you're not constantly

415
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: ashamed at how whack your shit is. You just get

416
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 1: your feed off the energy of how good other people are.

417
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 1: Got to I mean you, I mean you've got to.

418
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,400
Speaker 1: Like I've met so many my heroes in my life,

419
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Speaker 1: and I've never met Bob Dylan. But I was like,

420
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Speaker 1: I would never want to meet Bob Dylan ever unless

421
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: he was side stage of our show and I'd be like,

422
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 1: nice to meet you, mister Dylon. But like, I have

423
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 1: no fucking interest in like just cold meeting Bob Dylan.

424
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: Like I remember, like, oh I played in a band,

425
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: like like I'm good, you know, like on Neon Bible

426
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 1: on our second record, I was obsessed. Do you ever

427
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 1: get to meet Bob Johnson before he passed? He was

428
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: the producer who did what all the Dylan shit Johnny

429
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 1: Cash Live at folsome Willie Nelson in Leonard Cohen to me,

430
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: Bob Johnson, like if you look at his discography, that's

431
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: like no one fucks with Bob john Like to me,

432
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's the holy Grail. Incredible and so he

433
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 1: came out to Montreal. We were working on the record,

434
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 1: and he was like Willie Nelson, but who didn't take

435
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: the drugs as well. He was out of his fucking mind,

436
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: like completely out of it. But we were working on

437
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: a song called My Body as a Cage and he

438
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: sort of like sits up and he's like, my Body's

439
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 1: a cage and like he'd like love the song my

440
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: Body's a Cage, and like was really just like, yes,

441
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: this that is a holy thing that you're working on.

442
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: And and then he was sort of out of it,

443
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 1: you know, but he was like, I'm shocked that the

444
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: song that gets mentioned is that song, because at the

445
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 1: end of his interview, I was going to say, my

446
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: favorite song of yours is my Body as a Cage

447
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: And would it be okay for us to listen to

448
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: it and talk about it because I love that song. Um,

449
00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: do you mind if we listen to it? If you

450
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: would have written that song sooner, there is no question

451
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: in my mind that Johnny Cash would have sung that

452
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: song and it would have been mind blowing. Yeah, there's

453
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,199
Speaker 1: definitely some room sound on that motherfucker. Yeah, tell me

454
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 1: the story of the song. It's interesting It's like I

455
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: was sort of transported. I haven't really listened to it

456
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 1: in a while. But I don't really know Brandon Flowers

457
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: from The Killers, but he's Mormon. We both playing these

458
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 1: giant bands. We've met each other airports a couple of times,

459
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 1: and I reached out to him recently just to be like,

460
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: keep going, man, I really appreciate your record and keep

461
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: keep doing it. And he was like, he was like,

462
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: I remember meeting you on Funeral and you had this

463
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: little keyboard, and I remember thinking, man, this guy's writing

464
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: music on tour, I should really work harder. And like

465
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: I had this little cassio cassio keyboard on the Funeral

466
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: tour that had a sampler and the whole tour. I

467
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: brought it with me and I would we were in

468
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: a we were in a sprinter van. I would sit

469
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: in the back with headphones for like nine hours driving

470
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: across Texas, like to the next gig, and I would

471
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 1: play this fucking thing for two years. And that's the

472
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: only song I wrote in that entire two year period

473
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: that that was the only one. And I remember singing

474
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: it in the shower of like some fucking Motel six

475
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: somewhere in the desert and then the car broke down

476
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: somewhere in Arizona and I was sitting on the curb

477
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: with the headphones on. I just figured out how it went,

478
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: and I was like, regime, I wrote one like I

479
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: got I have this, you know, and just sitting like

480
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: just sweating, like it's like evening that I'm sitting on

481
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: this weird curb. It's like literally the smallest sound. I

482
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: was playing the littlest fucking thing, this little keyboard, and

483
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 1: it sounded like what we just heard in my head.

484
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: But it was like literally the smallest thing. And then

485
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: like maybe a year and a half later, we cut it,

486
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: and so like we cut it the backing band when

487
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: Bob Johnston was there in this church we bought outside

488
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: of Montreal, like an hour outside of Montreal, and then

489
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: we cut it live on this I found it. I

490
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: found this little church. It actually wasn't the church we owned.

491
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: It was another church that had a pipe organ in it,

492
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: but it wasn't the right pipe organ sound. And I

493
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: found it's like one of the giant this giant cathedral

494
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: in Montreal that like you play and there's like an

495
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: eight second delay, like giant fucking thing. I just I

496
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: want to something that feels like the way it sounds

497
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 1: when you walk into a church and you really hear it.

498
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: And we had this engineer. It was this like really

499
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: like indie rock kind of cold dude. And I remember

500
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: finishing it in the echo for like ten seconds afterwards,

501
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: and I looked at me. He was crying. It was

502
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 1: like crying, like just from the physical It was so

503
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: fucking loud in the room, like the bass and everything.

504
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: It was like the loudest sound I've ever heard. Did

505
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: you sing it and play it live? No, it's the organ.

506
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: I sang it live in that other room, and then

507
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: we overdubbed the organ, and and there's French horn that

508
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: don't like, there's this kind of um that was recorded

509
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: in the same church, like from like one hundred feet away,

510
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: like just horns echoing in this giant cathedral. What about

511
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: the rhythm track. The rhythm track is um. I think

512
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: it's regime playing the drums. Like the whole first half

513
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: of the track is just organ and drums and just

514
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: regime playing like kind of like I remember that her

515
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 1: reference point was Prince. Maybe I'm just stuck my mother,

516
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: do Like there's that sort of rhythm underlying it, and

517
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: then it just sort of opens up and everything's on eleven.

518
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 1: They're just like I remember kind of taking some shit

519
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 1: on that record for it being so Bombat's like, so like,

520
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: how pretentious to make something bombastic? And I was like, motherfucker,

521
00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: like this shit's not bombastic enough, like like it it's fun.

522
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: I would have never I would have never noticed the

523
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: Win Doves Cry reference on the drums. But when you

524
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: say it's like, oh, yeah, that makes sense, but not

525
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 1: obviously not the same production, but yeah. But it's interesting

526
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: how a reference point, even a super well known reference point,

527
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: when you change the context of it, turns into completely

528
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: new music. Any memories about the lyrics at all. When

529
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: I hear myself saying on those really the first two records,

530
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: I was ill. I was like I had a chronic

531
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: I had chronic sinus infections and I would basically be

532
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: sick for four months at a time. My voice is

533
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: just fucking shredded, you know, like, and I would just

534
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: scream every note of every song from beginning to end

535
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: every night. But I was really like not well, and

536
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: even at the end of Funeral, I was still sick.

537
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: We launched the on Bible and we were in Sweden

538
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: or something. We went to play the show and just

539
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: like like nothing, no sound like my voice, like I've

540
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: never had that before. We had to cancel the whole tour,

541
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: like I could, like not a whisper of sound came

542
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: out of my voice. And so I feel like my

543
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: body as a cage was like just like you're just

544
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: being suffocated by your life. It was just like I

545
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: had like my body wasn't my own, and I'm doing

546
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: what I've always dreamed of doing on planet Earth and

547
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: it's fucking hell, but like but it's also my wildest dream,

548
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: you know. But it wasn't like later it got fun.

549
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: It got once. You know, once you have money and

550
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: you're staying at nice hotels and it's like a little

551
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: bit cushier. But like there was no nuance to what

552
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: we were doing. We were like it was war Like

553
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: every show was like we're at war with the audience.

554
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: It wasn't like a Kumbaya sort of shit. It was

555
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: like we're trying to fucking kill Like you're not gonna

556
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: be like, oh what was that band? Like we were

557
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: like we were coming to kill you every night, you know,

558
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: like I don't care if there's three people like we're

559
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: at eleven, you know, and which is it's great when

560
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: you're when you're young. And I didn't even drink or

561
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: anything then, So I can't even imagine how I would

562
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: have done it if I was like higher some shit.

563
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: How did you end up solving the infection issue? I

564
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: got a sinus surgery and they kind of opened I

565
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: had like one side that wasn't drained. They opened it up,

566
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: and then afterwards my dad was like, oh, yeah I

567
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: had that too, and so do your brother. I was like, fuck, Dad,

568
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: like I've been sick for like three years, Like you

569
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: could have hit me that. It was like a completely

570
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: like genetic It's like, yeah, I had that surgery a lot.

571
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: It was like, have you noticed that I've been ill

572
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: for forever? We'll be back with Winn Butler and Rick Rubber.

573
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,959
Speaker 1: Here's the rest of Rick Rubin's conversation with Wynn Butler.

574
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: Are you are you writing and working towards whatever the

575
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: next project is going to be? Yeah, we were. We

576
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: It depends on the record, but at least a year

577
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: or more pretty much full time before we start even

578
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: demoing stuff. We've been writing for a year and we're

579
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: doing our first session towards the record when when kind

580
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: of COVID came down and so like it was it

581
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: felt like sort of like being on the on the

582
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: roller coaster and it goes up and like you you're

583
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: going into it and it's like exactly then once your

584
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: your body's already going like there was, there's no stopping it.

585
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: So I've just been writing, like I can't remember a

586
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: time where I've written more, just like it feels like

587
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: being eighteen, Just like sitting in a piano for five

588
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,719
Speaker 1: days in a row and working on a melody for

589
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: a verse and shit like that. It's pretty It's been

590
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: pretty amazing, actually really beautiful time. Great. Do you feel like,

591
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: had had the situation been different, you would already be

592
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: in recording mode based on the year previous of writing,

593
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: we would have been kind of get and towards wrapping

594
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: up I think of finishing an album. Yeah, So instead

595
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: we just wrote two or three coming about how the

596
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: last album was different than all that came before them.

597
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: For you, I mean, it sort of feels like the

598
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: way we do it, we're kind of a new band

599
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: every single time. It's like we take so much time

600
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: in between that it's like almost like we've forgotten to

601
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: play our instruments. It's like we're remembering how to be

602
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: a band, and we kind of end up building. We

603
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: really build a studio pretty much every record. And the

604
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: last record we had just moved to New Orleans and

605
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time in Haiti and Jamaica,

606
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: and we used to we used to have a studio

607
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: and a church, and then over the years, like the

608
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: space has gotten smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller,

609
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: and so our new studio is like maybe three hundred

610
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: square feet, but with it's like an old shotgun of

611
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: like a of an old New Orleans house, like eighteen

612
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: hundreds house, and it's like sort of like a black

613
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: arc like Jamaica. Like the console in the corner, we

614
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: had like fifteen musicians. Everyone's like sweating their ass off

615
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: and touching each other and sort of like really physically

616
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: close and just everything's within It's like you're on a boat,

617
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: so every all the gear is here and the eqs

618
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: and everything just like immediate. So that was the first time,

619
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: that was the first record we made in that space.

620
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: That was really just like the smallest possible space that

621
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: and that was chosen on purpose to get that feeling.

622
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: It's just sort of what I was gravitating towards, just

623
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: like immediacy, and like, um, I remember visiting, like on

624
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: the first tour we went, we went to the Motown

625
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: Studio in Detroit. That's like in the basement, and just

626
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: like how small that space is and they have those

627
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: uh like on the walls like we're normally like all

628
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: modern studios have like deadening foam and shit everywhere, and

629
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: I'm always just like, get me the fuck out of here.

630
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: I hate this space so much, Like I'm just like,

631
00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: how is the spirit supposed to get into a room

632
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: where all the windows are hermetically sealed? But the Motown

633
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: studio had these boards, lacquer boards. They were meant to

634
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: reflect the sound to make it more exciting, so it

635
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: bounce off and hit the piano player and hit the

636
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: drummer so it would be more more feedback and more

637
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: slap back and brighter, so the fucking musicians play better.

638
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: Everything is designed now to be separate, like the most

639
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: separation possible. And I always responded more to like I

640
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: wanted to hit me so that I sing better or

641
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: sing differently or I play better. Might it might have

642
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: something to do with the volume, because I think as

643
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: bands have gotten louder and louder, with you know, bigger

644
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: amps and louder stuff, it's harder to control that sound

645
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 1: in a space, whereas in the Motown days people played

646
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 1: pretty quietly. Even on James Brown records, if you listen,

647
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: it's like ms barely play yeah. So it's a different

648
00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: it's a different animal. And are the songs on the

649
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: earlier records. It's clear how the songs would be written

650
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: in advance and then turn into what we're familiar with

651
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: on the records. Does it work the same way in

652
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 1: the more modern style of production? We always have recorded

653
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: to tape. Pretty much in the last six months is

654
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 1: the first time where I like working on a computer

655
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh, this shit actually sounds just as

656
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: good to my ear, Like, like it's kind of hit

657
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: a point where it's not really for sonics anymore. Tape

658
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: is more for methodology. We're not We've we've certainly jammed

659
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: a lot a lot over the years. I don't know

660
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: how many things we've written that way, like probably only

661
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: a couple things, but you'll end up kind of more

662
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: for arrangements, like coming up with different ideas and stuff

663
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 1: for arrangements. So from the would what would a song

664
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: look like when you first bring it into the band?

665
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 1: So the song exists, the band has not played it before.

666
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: Now we're going into the studio. What does that process

667
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: look like? It's been different every time, you know, it

668
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: depends on the era, you know, Like as I've as

669
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 1: we've kind of ended up having a studio in our house,

670
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: it's really hard not to end up just demoing something

671
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: to the point where it basically sounds like a record.

672
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 1: And then it's just like this like kind of tortuous

673
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: process of trying to figure out how it works as

674
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 1: a band thing or what it is. From my perspective,

675
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: like the the thing I'm most interested in is the

676
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: song itself. And you really have no you don't have

677
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: much say in whether or not you get a song,

678
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: except for the more time you put in, the better

679
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: your odds are that you'll be hanging around when some

680
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: shit shows up. I mean, just you like, if you

681
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: do it more, you're more likely to be there, Like

682
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: you can't schedule it. Like the more a part we

683
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: are and coming back together, it's like, well, okay, well

684
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: this month, that's when we're gonna get the ship. And

685
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: it doesn't really work that way because it, like music

686
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: shows up whenever the fuck it want, so it doesn't

687
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: give a shit about your life. It's like, my dad's

688
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 1: family's from Maine, but actually I have my grandmothers from Hawaii,

689
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: and I've spent time in Hawaii. And when you're in

690
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: the ocean in Hawaii, the Pacific doesn't give a shit

691
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: if you're alive or dead. It doesn't care at all.

692
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: You're just like the energy I get from that ocean

693
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: is like your existence is like inconsequential to me. And

694
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: I feel like music is this comes from the same

695
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: spirit as that, where it like like it doesn't give

696
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: a shit about you. But if you're there and you

697
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 1: want to, if you want to participate in what it's doing,

698
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: then you're welcome to participate. But it doesn't really if

699
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: you're alive or dead. It's gonna find someone else. If

700
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: you've got other shit going on, it'll be like, Okay,

701
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: see later, I got someone just got born. I gotta go.

702
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:50,919
Speaker 1: You gotta go check them out and see what see

703
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 1: what they're thinking about. You know amazing. Tell me about

704
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: you've so now you're at a point where you might

705
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: demo up music on the computer and then you figure

706
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: out how to turn it into the band or tell me,

707
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: just tell me what's the process? Shit? Man, it just

708
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: gets complicated because everyone's so spread out. Now my brother

709
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: lives in Brooklyn, who's in the band of a lot

710
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: of band members are in Montreal, and then our drummers

711
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 1: in Australia actually, which is like extremely inconvenient. That seemed

712
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: like a reasonable thing even like six it was like, oh, sure,

713
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 1: we all live in different points of the globe, and

714
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: then this shit happens and it just seems absurd. You're like, what,

715
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: like what are we what were we thinking in the

716
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: last ten years? But you know, I mean it's like ideally,

717
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: like I would say, back in the day when we

718
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: were when we were hurting, like we had a loft,

719
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: we lived in, our drums were in the living room,

720
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: we had had band practice, and so the odds that

721
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: people are around when the shit happens is higher because

722
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: everyone's hanging out. So it's like, even if you don't

723
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: play something, if you're there when it's happening, it's still

724
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: you still feel like you don't need to play on it.

725
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: You can just you can just be there and kind

726
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: of like be part of the process. So it's harder

727
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: to orchestrate that happening, I think with a band. But

728
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: on the flip side, the band is so fucking great

729
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: at their instruments, Like everyone's so so much more technically

730
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: proficient and so such a tight amazing I don't know,

731
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't I'm not trying to like toot

732
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: our horn, but we're not a shitty live band. And

733
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: and and we've when we play like we're not fucking around,

734
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: like we're like, if the clash is watching us play,

735
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: we're not going to be embarrassed, Like we're like, we're

736
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: like coming, We're going for the throat when we play.

737
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: So it's like over fifteen years of doing that, it's

738
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: like we're so the range of what we can express

739
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: is so much better. So this time around, it's like

740
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: we've been in lockdown, have a studio, have every keyboard

741
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: and drum machine and piano and everything I could ever want,

742
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: and fucking time. So it's like and and the one

743
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 1: piece that's been missing is the time, And now the times,

744
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: like the time is there. So it's like in a way.

745
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: It feels like a more extreme version of what we

746
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: would have done anyway. But it's, uh, I don't know

747
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: if it's been. It's been cool just to really like

748
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: stay with it and just like I don't know, there's

749
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 1: like no magic, no magic thing that's going to come

750
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: and write the song for you. It's just like it's

751
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: just you. So it's like figured out. Yeah, are you

752
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: ever surprised by what comes back as opposed to what

753
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 1: you're expecting or what you're looking for? I mean that's

754
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: that is sort of that is the joy of a

755
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: band is when it's it's it's better than what you

756
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: thought it was, you know, and it's different and it's

757
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: like kind of fleshed out absolutely. I mean that's mostly

758
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: that is what it is, you know, um, and it's

759
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: in its best form. We were so hardcore about never

760
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: editing everything, like back like the first three four records,

761
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: we wouldn't touch a fucking thing, Like we wouldn't move

762
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: one piece of drums, and it was just like, no,

763
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: that's what it is. Like if we couldn't do it,

764
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: that's what it is. And so I feel like the

765
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 1: computer makes it. When I hear most modern music, it

766
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 1: feels like I'm listening to editing, like like it's essentially

767
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: become an art form of editing, which is cool, it

768
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: is really cool. But it's like it feels like digital

769
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: digital quilting or something like that doesn't feel like a

770
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: musical performance. It feels like an editing performance, like an

771
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: amazing editing. It's the same thing as a big budget

772
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 1: film or something when it's just like it's like a

773
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 1: magic trick of editing. I was actually sort of realizing

774
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: this the other day, like the kind of heyday of

775
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: like fifties and sixties and like some of the music

776
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: that was really recorded in the room, like is VR.

777
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: It's VR before VR, And if you if you can

778
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 1: hear a room, if you close your eyes, you hear

779
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 1: the piano player, you hear the drummer, you can hear

780
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: the room. And so every time you hear that shit,

781
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: you're in like Richie Vallen's playing, Like that's why these

782
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,879
Speaker 1: mediocre recordings from the fifties of like La Bumba and shit,

783
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: you hear it and you're like, motherfuck because it's like

784
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 1: it's a photograph of a thing. So for me, that's

785
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: still the ship. That is the great song and the

786
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: best arrangement and has that. To me, that's the shit

787
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: that list forever, because it's like it's like it actually

788
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:30,760
Speaker 1: is a room. I have a slightly different take on it,

789
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: similar but different. My feeling is if you hear the

790
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 1: room that they're in, it doesn't take into account the

791
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: room you're in, the listener. Yeah, and I want the

792
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: music to come out of the speakers as if the

793
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: band was in the room that I'm in, and experience

794
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 1: it as if they're here playing for me in my space,

795
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: because otherwise it's two rooms. It's their room plus my room,

796
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: and it's confusing to me. No, I that's that's how

797
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: I feel you. I mean, what you're describing as like

798
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: is uh. I mean obviously, if you hear a fucking

799
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,919
Speaker 1: dancing queen that's in the room you're in, like that's

800
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: in your room, it's not their room, like and that's

801
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: just like that's that seven just immaculate, guru level shit

802
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: as well. But there's still like for me, like when

803
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: I hear like um stand by me or some shit

804
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: like that, that's the fucking or like Louis Armstrong or whatever,

805
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: like that's the to me, that's just like what the

806
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: fuck are you going to say about like that ship

807
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: will live for a thousand years. I mean now too,

808
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: it's like we're mixing for this shit, we're mixing for

809
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 1: iPhone and like club speakers, and like it's like it's

810
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: enough to make you insane. How how aware are you

811
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: of the perception of the work you make after it

812
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: comes out? Are you wear it all or just you

813
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: make it and then you move on? Definitely aware? I

814
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: mean I've always most of the bands that I liked

815
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: when I was a kid had broken up twenty years

816
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: before I was listening to them, like I wasn't like

817
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: in high school, like Radiohead and Byork were like that

818
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: was that was it for me? Like in terms of

819
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: the contemporary this came out this week. I bought it

820
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: this week, But most of the shit I listened to

821
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: the bands had broken up twenty years before, and so

822
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: I always had the perspective of, like, how do you

823
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: even know if any of it's any good until twenty

824
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: years after it comes out? Like how I've just like

825
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: read these enemy reviews of like the Clash and whatever

826
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: and what they're talking it's absurd. You read it and

827
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 1: you're like, this is absurd, you know, like, how could

828
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: anyone take any of this shit seriously? And so I

829
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: was I was always coming from that perspective where it's

830
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: like I'm almost like distrustful of a good review, where

831
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 1: it's like it's like, oh shit, our ship must not

832
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 1: be that good if it is a really funny Rolling

833
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: Stone put out a collection of everything written about Neil

834
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: Young in Rolling Stone as a book. Yeah, and you

835
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: read the review of each album, and every review is terrible, worst.

836
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: You know, Neil's worst, he's lost, it doesn't know what

837
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: he's doing. Lost, And then you get to these and

838
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: then you get to the decade's finest albums, and he's

839
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: always in the Those same albums are always in their

840
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 1: top ten of the best albums of the decade, every consistently,

841
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: every single time. Yeah, Neil, Neil doesn't give a fuck

842
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: if like you don't drop out of Crosby Steals in

843
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: nash if you give a fuck, Like he had a

844
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: really good thing going, Like just imagine the balls it

845
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: takes to be like Springfield, Tim Buffalo's Like I'm in

846
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,919
Speaker 1: two of the biggest bands in the world, Like I'm

847
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: just gonna go in my basement and like fucking play

848
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: some shit and like, yeah, Neil is like like that's

849
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 1: that's the north Star. I feel like for people who

850
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: do what I do are just like that's a cold

851
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: blooded motherfucker. He doesn't give a shit. What's your favorite

852
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: Neil album? I mean, I love After the gold Rush

853
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: is probably the one that I've just lived with the most,

854
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: like it just like it's my favorite. That's my favorite.

855
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: But I mean Harvest is, like, I mean, what the

856
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:06,879
Speaker 1: fuck are you gonna say about Harvest? Like in terms

857
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: of the like the live needle and the damage done

858
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: like a live recording, and then the orchestral stuff like that,

859
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,919
Speaker 1: like the magic trick of that is amazing. Definitely After

860
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: the gold Rush the one that that's my Like, I'm

861
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: going to that one. It's it's a pretty magical. It's

862
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: a pretty magical one. That's That's a record I would

863
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: love to make and it would be really hard. Like, man,

864
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 1: have you seen that? I imagine you've seen the BBC

865
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: Neil Young from right around that time. I've seen a

866
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 1: lot of that shit, but I'm trying to remember which

867
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 1: there's a particular film with him playing and he's playing

868
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: like um old man and man needs a maid and

869
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: he's playing them for an audience who's never heard them before,

870
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: and the records are not out yet. Yeah, and it's

871
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 1: just the heaviest, most incredible thing you've ever seen. So,

872
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: I mean, old Man's one of the because we did

873
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: we did them his charity thing with him a couple

874
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: of years and hearing him sing that as an old

875
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: person and thinking like he wrote that at twenty two

876
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: four when he was old, and it sounds more relevant

877
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: like now than it did then, that's I mean, that's

878
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: that's the trick going into the next album. Do you

879
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: have a clear vision of what the album sounds like

880
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: or do you have a clear vision of the material?

881
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I know what the song sound like. I

882
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: don't know what do you? What do you? What would

883
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: you want our record to sound like? I want to

884
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: be surprised, and it's always good to be surprised. I

885
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: like to be surprised. I think you'll be surprised, and

886
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 1: I want it to be really good, you know. I

887
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: care less about the trappings of it and more about

888
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 1: it being really good at whatever it is that it is.

889
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 1: So I care less about what it is and more

890
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: about how good of a version of whatever the thing

891
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: that you decided to be is. I mean, that's the

892
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 1: tough It's like, there's not it's hard to you look

893
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: at role models and people have done it in the past,

894
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: and it's like it's it's it's interesting. It's like you

895
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: start to like we were fortunate enough to spend a

896
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: lot of time with Bowie and and and he sings

897
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: on a record and got to like really, you know,

898
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: like I've got to like actually pick his brain. And

899
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: when he died, it really felt like a planet died

900
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: or something like. There's like it was like I did

901
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: not expect like it kind of took me by surprise.

902
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: I knew it wasn't totally well, but then like someone

903
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: like that, it was just like it's not about like

904
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 1: oh this this record is perfect and all these perfect records.

905
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: It's just like about the the total commitment, like total

906
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: and complete commitment to like to art. That's what I

907
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: think about. It's just like not like not letting what's

908
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: hard about it, like keep you from the art art

909
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 1: of it, you know. But I don't know, I feel

910
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: it's so lucky just to have a fucking band that's

911
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:04,720
Speaker 1: a great band, really good people that I love and

912
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: and just like being able to fucking I don't know,

913
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: I feel like I took so much more for granted

914
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: before this whole global pandemic. I'm just like, I feel

915
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: so like so much gratitude, but also just like, fuck,

916
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 1: if I do I'm getting into a studio asap, there's

917
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: gonna be a problem. Yeah. Yeah, so you're looking at

918
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: you're looking forward to the process. I can't wait, Like

919
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: I just want to fucking sing and feel like an

920
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: artist and just like feel uninhibited and just like feel it.

921
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: I just it just feels like there's so much logistics

922
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: like the world. It's like there's there's like things that

923
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: used to be you would kind of take for granted

924
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: or suddenly really complicated. And I can't wait to just

925
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: be in a room making noises. And I feel really

926
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: like a teenager in that regard where I'm just like

927
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: it still feels like really exciting to me, and I

928
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 1: don't know, not sucking as a motherfucker. And I don't know.

929
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: It's like like I'll let you know when I figure

930
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 1: it out. Great, maybe we uh, maybe we'll speak again

931
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: when you're done and we listen to it together and

932
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 1: talk about our Yeah, I'll send you some shit. You

933
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: tell me what's good. Okay, happy too, cool man? Yeah, thanks,

934
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: that was that was fun. Nice to nice to talk

935
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: about music. Thanks to Win Butler for breaking down his

936
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: writing and recording process. We hope he's crammed into a

937
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: tiny studio space with his band playing new music soon.

938
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: You can hear all of our favorite arcade fire songs

939
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: and I playlist at Broken record podcast dot com, and

940
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 1: be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube

941
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,439
Speaker 1: dot com slash Broken Record Podcasts. There you can find

942
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: extended cuts of our new and old episodes. Broken Record

943
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: is produced with helpful Leah Rose, Jason Gambrell, Martin Gonzalez.

944
00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler is executive produced by Meilabelle. Broken Record is

945
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: a production of Pushkin Industries and if you like Broken Record,

946
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review our show on

947
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 1: your podcast. Apt Our theme musics by Kenny Beats I'm

948
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 1: justin Richmond Bass