WEBVTT - How Asian Countries Are Regulating Crypto 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:05.560 This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I Heart podcast, 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:08.640 and I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:26.840 Bloomberg News. It's Monday, November. Ask any regulator and they'll 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.560 tell you the same thing. They have a tough job. 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:31.880 As soon as they seem to have a grasp on 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.400 whatever the last crisis was that blew everything up. Something 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:38.080 new comes along and blows up in the patch that 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.400 they were responsible for. But that doesn't mean they all 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.160 take the same approach to managing and preventing crises though. 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:49.360 Consider crypto so many different vintages of debacle, so many 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:54.920 different countries involved. In late Hong Kong updated its crypto 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.400 regulations in a way that signal a goal of increasing 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:02.600 retail access to the asset class US. Just days later, 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:08.440 f t X filed for bankruptcy in nearby Singapore, which 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:11.160 has been tightening regulations after big losses this year. For 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:14.759 retail investors, the attitude seems to still be a little 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:19.600 bit stricter. Korea, which is still dealing with the aftermath 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.679 of the collapse of the Terra Luna tokens, is currently 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:27.679 focusing on enforcement, and India somewhat uniquely in the region, 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:32.640 is using tax policy to attempt to drive behavior. Here 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.880 with me to talk about how different Asian countries are 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:37.560 approaching crypto regulation in the shadow of the ft X 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.760 collapse is Bloomberg Senior editor for Crypto, snel Jagtiani. It's 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:44.560 going to be less about what's the taxonomyw tokens and 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:46.480 how do they operate and how do we figure that out? 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:48.360 And it's going to be more about the traditional things. 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.720 Here's a crypto outfit, Okay, what do we know about it? 0:01:51.880 --> 0:02:10.280 Where the assets are? They say? Yeah, Neil, welcome back 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.640 to the podcast. Thank you, Stacy Murray. You are a 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:19.360 senior editor for Crypto based in Sydney and have lived 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.639 and worked in Asia for a decently long time at 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.400 this point and have this sort of unique vantage point 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.679 of being able to see in real time, as it were, 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.240 how different jurisdictions are trying to figure out what the 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.240 hell they should do about this crypto asset class. Can 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.160 you talk a little bit about the differences of opinion. 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:43.160 Shall we say that they're emerging between two of the 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:45.880 biggest players in the region on this subject? Sure? Yeah, 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:50.280 Currently I'm in Singapore. UM and Singapore a few years 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:52.520 ago was an early, if you like, adoptor of the 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:54.840 idea that there's something to be said for trying to 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:58.160 develop a crypto hub. So they were at the forefront 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:02.000 of trying to create an environment that attracts investment and 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:06.680 would yield a collection of companies and an investor landscape 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:09.519 that gives them a chance to be a hub for Asia. 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.440 So they began to pursue that. And then of course 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:16.000 we've seen over the past year the route in cryptocurrencies 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.800 and the way in which investors like the three Hours 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.760 hedge Funds has blown up. Crypto hedge fund Three Arrows 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.359 Capital has been ordered into liquidation by importing the British 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:27.880 Virgin Islands. We saw the collapse of the terror USD 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.600 in the lunar ecosystem. Terror u s D and its 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.920 sister token Luna lost their head to the dollar in 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:38.000 the last few weeks. They had a spectacular meltdowns. And 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:42.960 these things buffeted Singapore because three three Hours Capital, the 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:47.000 terror USD Lunar ecosystem, they both had links into Singapore, 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:51.360 So that huge wipeout and the large numbers of investors 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.200 who were affected by it lead single bare to become 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:59.360 much more cautious about retail speculation and the retail part 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:03.240 of the crypto industry. So they've pivoted towards becoming much 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:09.680 harsher in their approach to retail investment. They split between 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.280 high net worth investors who are given more liberty and 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.200 the remainder and they're doing this, they say, because they 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.520 want to ensure that people are appropriately protected from the 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.919 risk that we've seen through crypto this year. So Singapore, 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.720 if you like, still wants to become a hub, but 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.240 a hub that is focused on the productive uses of 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:31.039 blockchain technology, which, to be fair, haven't really emerged to 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.240 the scale that we might have expected so far. It's 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.120 still a work in progress, and they don't want the 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:39.760 speculative avatars that come along with crypto and cause all 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.640 kinds of problems. So that's where Singapore is right now. 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:47.920 Hong Kong, interestingly, is if you like, going the other way. 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.719 That's overly simplistic in some ways, but it's it's pivoting 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.679 towards an environment where they want to allow retail trading, 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.400 and it's pivoting towards where they wanted to allow things 0:04:56.440 --> 0:05:00.719 like exchange traded funds, that retail investors have access to UM. 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.880 They're even looking at the legal status of smart chain contracts, 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.599 and they're even looking at tokenized assets and how a 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.160 regulatory framework would work for tokenized assets. So and all 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.520 of this came through UM at the end of October. 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:17.520 So all of a sudden, Hong Kong is moved from 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:22.240 a voluntary licensing regime that some people viewed as signaling 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.480 are not very welcoming environment. They moved from that all 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.359 of a sudden to trying to promote themselves as the 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:31.160 pre eminent hub for Asia. So you have these two 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:35.320 jurisdictions going on very different tracks right now. And the 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:37.880 question is what kind of what kind of a reordering 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.720 that's going to yield in Asia, And we don't have 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.120 the answer yet because it's all happening right now. And 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.000 in the midst of that, f t X blew up. 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.440 To add to add to the complications, here's the thing. 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:53.200 Before FTX was domiciled in the Bahamas, it was domiciled 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:57.880 in Hong Kong, and they left because you know, in 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:02.320 the aftermath of the AUS, countries in Asia, notably China, 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:08.120 taking this much harsher stance on all things crypto various 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:12.760 other jurisdictions, i e. Places like the US, the Bahamas. 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:15.919 Bermuda popped up and we're like, hey, we have great 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:21.200 weather over here, Miami fantastic, and they do Nasau beaches 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:26.400 outstanding and you know, sort of rolled out the red carpet, 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.080 although the carpets don't work well in sand, but you 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.280 get the analogy, rolled out the red carpet for these folks. 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:35.520 And you know, sbf FTX, etcetera. Up Sticks moved to 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.840 the Bahamas. What does that say about what the regime 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.400 was in Hong Kong before, right, And it's kind of 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:45.279 the same question for Singapore because Three Arrows Capital was 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.240 also domiciled in Singapore. So you have these two places 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:53.200 that had historically different paths now being beset by very 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:57.760 similar types of blow ups. Yes, so Sam back when 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:01.160 Freed set up in Hong Kong, but then Hong Kong 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:05.200 began to introduce a voluntary licensing regime and that's what 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.760 they have in place right now. And it's somewhat restrictive 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.920 if you opt to become licensed, because you cannot offer 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:14.040 your service just to retail investors unless they have more 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.000 than a million dollars of assets to invest so it's 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.440 it's restricting you to high net worth investors who you 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.760 would assume have a better understanding of the risks they're taking. 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:26.400 So that, together with the fact that China has imposed 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:28.800 basically a year long bound on all things pretty much 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.920 all things crypto, those two things together gave you the signal. 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:33.880 You know, if you if you were a crypto player, 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:35.240 you would look at them and think, well, those two 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.240 things together suggest that Hong Kong isn't the place to be. 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:40.760 There was, also, at the same time, so pretty harsh 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:44.280 COVID restrictions that lingered in Hong Kong longer than in 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:48.040 other places. And you also had um a degree of 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.400 political unrest in Hong Kong. So all of those things 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:55.160 conspired to not just in crypto, but they conspired to 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.160 create a brain drain. People wanted to leave Hong Kong. 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.560 Its status as a for angel center came into question. 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.920 And it's all of those things that Hong Kong is 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.320 now trying to reverse. So yes, f TX set up 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.560 there and and and left, but in a way they're 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:13.680 trying to create a regime that could encourage what FD 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.680 because it's not past, but other companies of that sort 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:19.400 to come back in and and invest and set up 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.000 in in Hong Kong. And you know, we can talk 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.400 about this if you like, but it looks like even 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.360 after fd X that the upper levels of government are 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:35.360 still going to stick with this plan. Korea, for you know, 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.240 several years now, has been a place where there's a 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:45.000 significant retail crypto presence, interest, activity, volumes. It's been the 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.920 place that you know, various types of DFI protocols sprung up. 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:53.720 There is a pretty active developer community among you know, 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.640 Korean developers who are interested in crypto. What is the 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:01.079 regime there as it relates to regulation. The president who 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:04.400 took power in May UM he came in on a 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:09.160 platform that was pro crypto UM and that was in 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.760 the wake of UM, the huge boom in crypto and 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.560 in Korea, before the before the recent blow up and 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:20.000 the recent route in in crypto currencies in Korea, you 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.880 saw a whole bunch of people create huge bounds of 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.280 wealth and become billionaires. And they were well known and 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:29.320 famous UM in Korea. And so when you came in, 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.720 his idea was to bring in a comprehensive framework to 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.840 regulate the industry, and he was adopting a pro crypto stance. 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:39.640 But then of course he came into power and that 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.360 was in May, and pretty much straight afterwards, Terror Luna 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:47.040 blew up. So so so the crypto change, the regime 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.240 change in in career installed, and we have to work 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.480 through the fallout of the Kwan situation. Tokuan was the 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.880 pro genital of the terror Lunar ecosystem. He is apparently 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.160 the subject of an Interpol red notice. We're not sure 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.920 where he is, and there's an arrestaurant for him that's 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:07.400 been issued by by the Koreans, So that is we 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.679 have to resolve all that, and as they're pursuing do 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:12.960 Quan and they're also trying to figure out what kind 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.880 of crypto regime they want, so it's incredibly difficult and complicated, 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:20.480 and lawmakers are arguing out exactly how that framework should 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:22.760 look like, and it doesn't look like it's going to 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.120 be in place anytime soon. So Korea is um to 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:28.480 say the least, very vexed by crypto and what to 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.040 do now. Vexed is truly one of my favorite words. 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:34.600 I want to also ask you. We've had our colleagues 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.680 at Stuggler on the podcast talking about the Indian approach 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.800 to crypto regulation, which is not exactly to regulated, but 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:47.480 use taxes and taxation as a way to either incentivize 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:51.320 or disincentivize certain types of behavior. They've also taken steps 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.880 to make it more difficult for entities like coin base 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.440 to use, you know, Indian banks or have access to 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.960 Indian banks, and what that means in practices. If you 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.640 are a person in India trying to fund a coin 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.079 based wallet, the number of hoops you would have to 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:10.439 jump through is sufficiently exhausting that you kind of give 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:14.240 up halfway through, even if there's nothing technically saying you're 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:17.679 not allowed to do that. Do you think if we 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.040 were having this conversation sort of six months from now, 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.280 that we live in a world in which some version 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.360 of all of these approaches, there's like a middle ground, right, 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:28.840 There's like a little sprinkling of tax policy, there's a 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:33.679 little sprinkling of different types of registration regimes, there's some 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:39.240 consumer protection or are we staring into everybody's going to 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.200 do completely their own thing, and you know which is 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:44.440 a nightmare for the company's involved. Right, You're you know, 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:46.679 how you get regulated in India versus how you get 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:50.000 regulated in Korea versus Singapore, versus Hong Kong versus China. 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:54.240 What are you gonna do? UM. If we look at 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:58.800 India first, I would hesitate to extrapolate very much from 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:02.400 India to the rest of the world. One because India 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.880 historically has struggled with a very low tax take. They 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.760 have lots of rules and lots of taxes, and you know, 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:14.079 tax evasions the national sport UM. So you have to 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:18.280 look at the imposition of the levy on crypto transactions 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:22.520 in India, both from the perspective of trying to control 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.480 the industry, which they are skeptical of, but also because 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.960 India struggles to raise money UM, and India has this 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:33.240 kind of reflexive concern about UM, you know, nefarious uses 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:37.240 of technology, and they're always worried about what they call 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.839 black money, which is money under the table that could 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.480 be used for all kinds of things, including for example, 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.560 terrorist activity. So India is a unique situation country and 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:49.520 I'm not sure you can extrapolate too much from what 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.240 they're doing to the rest of the world. However, we 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:56.760 have seen the International Monetary Fund, We've seen European officials 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:58.800 who are if you like a bit further ahead and 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:03.120 regulations of crypto that both those bodies have talked about, 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.840 how do you have a globally coordinated approach to regulating crypto? 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.200 But that's no difference to other topics. How do you 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.880 have a globally coordinated approach to taxation? How do you 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.079 have a globally coordinated approach to corporate taxation for example? 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.640 These things are very hard, and they're hard in crypto 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.240 as well. So I think if I had to bet, 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.080 I would say it's almost impossible to have the kind 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.480 of coordination you were talking about across jurisdictions, and instead 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:32.000 you're can have companies playing arbitrage, trying to figure out 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.079 where the best places for them to set up and 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:36.880 how many people they can serve from that location. And 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:38.960 that's why we're seeing places like Hong Kong do what 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.000 they're doing with their policy shift, which to your point, 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.960 is exactly what we saw with taxation for a while, 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.640 right Like, why did everybody have an Ireland HQ if 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.920 not to take advantage of those extremely preferential tax treatments 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:57.640 that weren't available to them in other places. We'll be 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.160 right back with Bloomberg Senior editor for cryptos In Neil 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:12.959 Jack Tianni with more on crypto regulations in Asia. We 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.280 focused a lot on like the institutional side of the house, 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.680 weather from the regulatory perspective of the companies themselves. But 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:21.480 I'm going to say three letters, and I just want 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:28.440 your reaction to it, which is a VPN. Yes, UM, 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.360 understand what you're saying. You're what what you're saying is 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.200 that technology can make a laughing stock of any kind 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:38.520 of regulatory approach, right UM, And to an extent, I agree, 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.160 But I feel like what we're seeing now with the 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.800 ft X collapse is going to really concentrate the minds 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.920 of regulators. I think they're gonna look really really closely 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:52.440 at things like disclosure, making sure that UM exchanges really 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:56.520 are very clear that client assets are safe, disclosing very 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.920 clearly where leaveradge is disclosing very clearly, how they manage. 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.000 I think all of these things are going to shoot 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.320 up and be front of set, know, front of house 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.400 for regulators. It's going to be less about what's the 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:09.600 taxonomy your tokens and how do they operate and how 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:11.160 do we figure that out? And it's going to be 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:14.640 more about the traditional things. Here's a crypto outfit. Okay, 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.000 what do we know about it? Where the assets are 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.080 they safe? How much the lead which if they really 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.200 got um, have they got the right kind of risk 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:24.440 management practices. I think it's going to be a lot 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:26.400 of that that we see coming through over the next 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.480 few years. But it's not going to happen quickly, so 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:30.960 there's lots of time for more things to blow up 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.680 while they try and put that into place. The perpetual 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.280 struggle of regulators, it's like you're always fighting not the 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:40.040 last war, but like the one before that. Yeah, exactly. 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.160 I don't envy them. It's a very hard task. It's 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.280 hard enough for regular finance. Can you imagine how haw 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.720 they must be for for for crypto. Somebody was talking 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.440 the other day about not stable coins, but what they 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.600 call flat coins, things that would go up and value 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:57.400 along with inflation while retaining their essential value beyond that. 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.120 So you can see from the point to be a regulator. Okay, 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.000 we're trying to get our head around stable coins, and 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:05.800 now people talking about flat coins at the time, I 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:07.640 would go up with inflation. How's that going to work? 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.880 So it's it's almost it's like a Gordian knot right. 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.000 It's almost impossible to untangle um. But that's what they've 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.680 paid the small or big bucks to do. Mostly small, 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:24.960 mostly small. Thank you, big headaches, yeah, small box, big headaches. Well, 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:28.880 thank you very much for that tour of crypto regulation 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.000 in Asia pac Where can folks find you if they 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:33.680 want to see more of your coverage or at least 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.280 know what you're up to. You know, you can probably 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.520 find my byeline here here or there on on the 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:40.760 Bloombloo terminal or on the Bloomberg website as well. And 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:42.560 if you have any complaints please send them to stay 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.640 sy Marie. Thank you very much, fair enough, fair enough, 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:53.880 Thank you so much to they. I'll take care. This 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.000 is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.320 Heeart Radio. For more shows from I Heeart Radio, visit 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.400 the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:07.439 get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions or suggestions 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:13.119 for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net. The 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.119 supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Verglina. Our senior 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.760 producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed Faruk and 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.520 Sharon Barriro. Our associate producers are Ty Butler and Moses 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:28.800 on Them. Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original music 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:33.840 by Leo Sidrin. I'm Stacy Marie Schmal We'll be back tomorrow.