1
00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,560
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I Heart podcast,

2
00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,640
Speaker 1: and I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for

3
00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:26,840
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News. It's Monday, November. Ask any regulator and they'll

4
00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,560
Speaker 1: tell you the same thing. They have a tough job.

5
00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:31,880
Speaker 1: As soon as they seem to have a grasp on

6
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,400
Speaker 1: whatever the last crisis was that blew everything up. Something

7
00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,080
Speaker 1: new comes along and blows up in the patch that

8
00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,400
Speaker 1: they were responsible for. But that doesn't mean they all

9
00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,160
Speaker 1: take the same approach to managing and preventing crises though.

10
00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,360
Speaker 1: Consider crypto so many different vintages of debacle, so many

11
00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:54,920
Speaker 1: different countries involved. In late Hong Kong updated its crypto

12
00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,400
Speaker 1: regulations in a way that signal a goal of increasing

13
00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,600
Speaker 1: retail access to the asset class US. Just days later,

14
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:08,440
Speaker 1: f t X filed for bankruptcy in nearby Singapore, which

15
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,160
Speaker 1: has been tightening regulations after big losses this year. For

16
00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,759
Speaker 1: retail investors, the attitude seems to still be a little

17
00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:19,600
Speaker 1: bit stricter. Korea, which is still dealing with the aftermath

18
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,679
Speaker 1: of the collapse of the Terra Luna tokens, is currently

19
00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:27,679
Speaker 1: focusing on enforcement, and India somewhat uniquely in the region,

20
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,640
Speaker 1: is using tax policy to attempt to drive behavior. Here

21
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,880
Speaker 1: with me to talk about how different Asian countries are

22
00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,560
Speaker 1: approaching crypto regulation in the shadow of the ft X

23
00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,760
Speaker 1: collapse is Bloomberg Senior editor for Crypto, snel Jagtiani. It's

24
00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,560
Speaker 1: going to be less about what's the taxonomyw tokens and

25
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,480
Speaker 1: how do they operate and how do we figure that out?

26
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,360
Speaker 1: And it's going to be more about the traditional things.

27
00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,720
Speaker 1: Here's a crypto outfit, Okay, what do we know about it?

28
00:01:51,880 --> 00:02:10,280
Speaker 1: Where the assets are? They say? Yeah, Neil, welcome back

29
00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,640
Speaker 1: to the podcast. Thank you, Stacy Murray. You are a

30
00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:19,360
Speaker 1: senior editor for Crypto based in Sydney and have lived

31
00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,639
Speaker 1: and worked in Asia for a decently long time at

32
00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,400
Speaker 1: this point and have this sort of unique vantage point

33
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,679
Speaker 1: of being able to see in real time, as it were,

34
00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,240
Speaker 1: how different jurisdictions are trying to figure out what the

35
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,240
Speaker 1: hell they should do about this crypto asset class. Can

36
00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,160
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about the differences of opinion.

37
00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,160
Speaker 1: Shall we say that they're emerging between two of the

38
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,880
Speaker 1: biggest players in the region on this subject? Sure? Yeah,

39
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 1: Currently I'm in Singapore. UM and Singapore a few years

40
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,520
Speaker 1: ago was an early, if you like, adoptor of the

41
00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,840
Speaker 1: idea that there's something to be said for trying to

42
00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,160
Speaker 1: develop a crypto hub. So they were at the forefront

43
00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,000
Speaker 1: of trying to create an environment that attracts investment and

44
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,680
Speaker 1: would yield a collection of companies and an investor landscape

45
00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,519
Speaker 1: that gives them a chance to be a hub for Asia.

46
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,440
Speaker 1: So they began to pursue that. And then of course

47
00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 1: we've seen over the past year the route in cryptocurrencies

48
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,800
Speaker 1: and the way in which investors like the three Hours

49
00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,760
Speaker 1: hedge Funds has blown up. Crypto hedge fund Three Arrows

50
00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,359
Speaker 1: Capital has been ordered into liquidation by importing the British

51
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,880
Speaker 1: Virgin Islands. We saw the collapse of the terror USD

52
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,600
Speaker 1: in the lunar ecosystem. Terror u s D and its

53
00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,920
Speaker 1: sister token Luna lost their head to the dollar in

54
00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:38,000
Speaker 1: the last few weeks. They had a spectacular meltdowns. And

55
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,960
Speaker 1: these things buffeted Singapore because three three Hours Capital, the

56
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,000
Speaker 1: terror USD Lunar ecosystem, they both had links into Singapore,

57
00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,360
Speaker 1: So that huge wipeout and the large numbers of investors

58
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,200
Speaker 1: who were affected by it lead single bare to become

59
00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:59,360
Speaker 1: much more cautious about retail speculation and the retail part

60
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,240
Speaker 1: of the crypto industry. So they've pivoted towards becoming much

61
00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:09,680
Speaker 1: harsher in their approach to retail investment. They split between

62
00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,280
Speaker 1: high net worth investors who are given more liberty and

63
00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,200
Speaker 1: the remainder and they're doing this, they say, because they

64
00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,520
Speaker 1: want to ensure that people are appropriately protected from the

65
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,919
Speaker 1: risk that we've seen through crypto this year. So Singapore,

66
00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,720
Speaker 1: if you like, still wants to become a hub, but

67
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,240
Speaker 1: a hub that is focused on the productive uses of

68
00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:31,039
Speaker 1: blockchain technology, which, to be fair, haven't really emerged to

69
00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,240
Speaker 1: the scale that we might have expected so far. It's

70
00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,120
Speaker 1: still a work in progress, and they don't want the

71
00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,760
Speaker 1: speculative avatars that come along with crypto and cause all

72
00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,640
Speaker 1: kinds of problems. So that's where Singapore is right now.

73
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,920
Speaker 1: Hong Kong, interestingly, is if you like, going the other way.

74
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,719
Speaker 1: That's overly simplistic in some ways, but it's it's pivoting

75
00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,679
Speaker 1: towards an environment where they want to allow retail trading,

76
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,400
Speaker 1: and it's pivoting towards where they wanted to allow things

77
00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,719
Speaker 1: like exchange traded funds, that retail investors have access to UM.

78
00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,880
Speaker 1: They're even looking at the legal status of smart chain contracts,

79
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,599
Speaker 1: and they're even looking at tokenized assets and how a

80
00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,160
Speaker 1: regulatory framework would work for tokenized assets. So and all

81
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,520
Speaker 1: of this came through UM at the end of October.

82
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,520
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, Hong Kong is moved from

83
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:22,240
Speaker 1: a voluntary licensing regime that some people viewed as signaling

84
00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,480
Speaker 1: are not very welcoming environment. They moved from that all

85
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,359
Speaker 1: of a sudden to trying to promote themselves as the

86
00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,160
Speaker 1: pre eminent hub for Asia. So you have these two

87
00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,320
Speaker 1: jurisdictions going on very different tracks right now. And the

88
00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,880
Speaker 1: question is what kind of what kind of a reordering

89
00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,720
Speaker 1: that's going to yield in Asia, And we don't have

90
00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,120
Speaker 1: the answer yet because it's all happening right now. And

91
00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,000
Speaker 1: in the midst of that, f t X blew up.

92
00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,440
Speaker 1: To add to add to the complications, here's the thing.

93
00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:53,200
Speaker 1: Before FTX was domiciled in the Bahamas, it was domiciled

94
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,880
Speaker 1: in Hong Kong, and they left because you know, in

95
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,320
Speaker 1: the aftermath of the AUS, countries in Asia, notably China,

96
00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:08,120
Speaker 1: taking this much harsher stance on all things crypto various

97
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,760
Speaker 1: other jurisdictions, i e. Places like the US, the Bahamas.

98
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,919
Speaker 1: Bermuda popped up and we're like, hey, we have great

99
00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:21,200
Speaker 1: weather over here, Miami fantastic, and they do Nasau beaches

100
00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:26,400
Speaker 1: outstanding and you know, sort of rolled out the red carpet,

101
00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 1: although the carpets don't work well in sand, but you

102
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,280
Speaker 1: get the analogy, rolled out the red carpet for these folks.

103
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,520
Speaker 1: And you know, sbf FTX, etcetera. Up Sticks moved to

104
00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,840
Speaker 1: the Bahamas. What does that say about what the regime

105
00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,400
Speaker 1: was in Hong Kong before, right, And it's kind of

106
00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,279
Speaker 1: the same question for Singapore because Three Arrows Capital was

107
00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,240
Speaker 1: also domiciled in Singapore. So you have these two places

108
00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:53,200
Speaker 1: that had historically different paths now being beset by very

109
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,760
Speaker 1: similar types of blow ups. Yes, so Sam back when

110
00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,160
Speaker 1: Freed set up in Hong Kong, but then Hong Kong

111
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,200
Speaker 1: began to introduce a voluntary licensing regime and that's what

112
00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 1: they have in place right now. And it's somewhat restrictive

113
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,920
Speaker 1: if you opt to become licensed, because you cannot offer

114
00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,040
Speaker 1: your service just to retail investors unless they have more

115
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,000
Speaker 1: than a million dollars of assets to invest so it's

116
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,440
Speaker 1: it's restricting you to high net worth investors who you

117
00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,760
Speaker 1: would assume have a better understanding of the risks they're taking.

118
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,400
Speaker 1: So that, together with the fact that China has imposed

119
00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,800
Speaker 1: basically a year long bound on all things pretty much

120
00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,920
Speaker 1: all things crypto, those two things together gave you the signal.

121
00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:33,880
Speaker 1: You know, if you if you were a crypto player,

122
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,240
Speaker 1: you would look at them and think, well, those two

123
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,240
Speaker 1: things together suggest that Hong Kong isn't the place to be.

124
00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,760
Speaker 1: There was, also, at the same time, so pretty harsh

125
00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,280
Speaker 1: COVID restrictions that lingered in Hong Kong longer than in

126
00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,040
Speaker 1: other places. And you also had um a degree of

127
00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,400
Speaker 1: political unrest in Hong Kong. So all of those things

128
00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,160
Speaker 1: conspired to not just in crypto, but they conspired to

129
00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,160
Speaker 1: create a brain drain. People wanted to leave Hong Kong.

130
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,560
Speaker 1: Its status as a for angel center came into question.

131
00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,920
Speaker 1: And it's all of those things that Hong Kong is

132
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,320
Speaker 1: now trying to reverse. So yes, f TX set up

133
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,560
Speaker 1: there and and and left, but in a way they're

134
00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 1: trying to create a regime that could encourage what FD

135
00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,680
Speaker 1: because it's not past, but other companies of that sort

136
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,400
Speaker 1: to come back in and and invest and set up

137
00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 1: in in Hong Kong. And you know, we can talk

138
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,400
Speaker 1: about this if you like, but it looks like even

139
00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,360
Speaker 1: after fd X that the upper levels of government are

140
00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:35,360
Speaker 1: still going to stick with this plan. Korea, for you know,

141
00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,240
Speaker 1: several years now, has been a place where there's a

142
00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:45,000
Speaker 1: significant retail crypto presence, interest, activity, volumes. It's been the

143
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 1: place that you know, various types of DFI protocols sprung up.

144
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,720
Speaker 1: There is a pretty active developer community among you know,

145
00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,640
Speaker 1: Korean developers who are interested in crypto. What is the

146
00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,079
Speaker 1: regime there as it relates to regulation. The president who

147
00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,400
Speaker 1: took power in May UM he came in on a

148
00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:09,160
Speaker 1: platform that was pro crypto UM and that was in

149
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,760
Speaker 1: the wake of UM, the huge boom in crypto and

150
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,560
Speaker 1: in Korea, before the before the recent blow up and

151
00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:20,000
Speaker 1: the recent route in in crypto currencies in Korea, you

152
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,880
Speaker 1: saw a whole bunch of people create huge bounds of

153
00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,280
Speaker 1: wealth and become billionaires. And they were well known and

154
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:29,320
Speaker 1: famous UM in Korea. And so when you came in,

155
00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,720
Speaker 1: his idea was to bring in a comprehensive framework to

156
00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,840
Speaker 1: regulate the industry, and he was adopting a pro crypto stance.

157
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,640
Speaker 1: But then of course he came into power and that

158
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,360
Speaker 1: was in May, and pretty much straight afterwards, Terror Luna

159
00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:47,040
Speaker 1: blew up. So so so the crypto change, the regime

160
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,240
Speaker 1: change in in career installed, and we have to work

161
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:54,480
Speaker 1: through the fallout of the Kwan situation. Tokuan was the

162
00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,880
Speaker 1: pro genital of the terror Lunar ecosystem. He is apparently

163
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,160
Speaker 1: the subject of an Interpol red notice. We're not sure

164
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,920
Speaker 1: where he is, and there's an arrestaurant for him that's

165
00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,400
Speaker 1: been issued by by the Koreans, So that is we

166
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,679
Speaker 1: have to resolve all that, and as they're pursuing do

167
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,960
Speaker 1: Quan and they're also trying to figure out what kind

168
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,880
Speaker 1: of crypto regime they want, so it's incredibly difficult and complicated,

169
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,480
Speaker 1: and lawmakers are arguing out exactly how that framework should

170
00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,760
Speaker 1: look like, and it doesn't look like it's going to

171
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,120
Speaker 1: be in place anytime soon. So Korea is um to

172
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,480
Speaker 1: say the least, very vexed by crypto and what to

173
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,040
Speaker 1: do now. Vexed is truly one of my favorite words.

174
00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,600
Speaker 1: I want to also ask you. We've had our colleagues

175
00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,680
Speaker 1: at Stuggler on the podcast talking about the Indian approach

176
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,800
Speaker 1: to crypto regulation, which is not exactly to regulated, but

177
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:47,480
Speaker 1: use taxes and taxation as a way to either incentivize

178
00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,320
Speaker 1: or disincentivize certain types of behavior. They've also taken steps

179
00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,880
Speaker 1: to make it more difficult for entities like coin base

180
00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,440
Speaker 1: to use, you know, Indian banks or have access to

181
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,960
Speaker 1: Indian banks, and what that means in practices. If you

182
00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,640
Speaker 1: are a person in India trying to fund a coin

183
00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,079
Speaker 1: based wallet, the number of hoops you would have to

184
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,439
Speaker 1: jump through is sufficiently exhausting that you kind of give

185
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,240
Speaker 1: up halfway through, even if there's nothing technically saying you're

186
00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,679
Speaker 1: not allowed to do that. Do you think if we

187
00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,040
Speaker 1: were having this conversation sort of six months from now,

188
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,280
Speaker 1: that we live in a world in which some version

189
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,360
Speaker 1: of all of these approaches, there's like a middle ground, right,

190
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,840
Speaker 1: There's like a little sprinkling of tax policy, there's a

191
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,679
Speaker 1: little sprinkling of different types of registration regimes, there's some

192
00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:39,240
Speaker 1: consumer protection or are we staring into everybody's going to

193
00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,200
Speaker 1: do completely their own thing, and you know which is

194
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,440
Speaker 1: a nightmare for the company's involved. Right, You're you know,

195
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,679
Speaker 1: how you get regulated in India versus how you get

196
00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,000
Speaker 1: regulated in Korea versus Singapore, versus Hong Kong versus China.

197
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,240
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do? UM. If we look at

198
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,800
Speaker 1: India first, I would hesitate to extrapolate very much from

199
00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,400
Speaker 1: India to the rest of the world. One because India

200
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 1: historically has struggled with a very low tax take. They

201
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,760
Speaker 1: have lots of rules and lots of taxes, and you know,

202
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:14,079
Speaker 1: tax evasions the national sport UM. So you have to

203
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,280
Speaker 1: look at the imposition of the levy on crypto transactions

204
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,520
Speaker 1: in India, both from the perspective of trying to control

205
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,480
Speaker 1: the industry, which they are skeptical of, but also because

206
00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,960
Speaker 1: India struggles to raise money UM, and India has this

207
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,240
Speaker 1: kind of reflexive concern about UM, you know, nefarious uses

208
00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:37,240
Speaker 1: of technology, and they're always worried about what they call

209
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,839
Speaker 1: black money, which is money under the table that could

210
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,480
Speaker 1: be used for all kinds of things, including for example,

211
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,560
Speaker 1: terrorist activity. So India is a unique situation country and

212
00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:49,520
Speaker 1: I'm not sure you can extrapolate too much from what

213
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,240
Speaker 1: they're doing to the rest of the world. However, we

214
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,760
Speaker 1: have seen the International Monetary Fund, We've seen European officials

215
00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:58,800
Speaker 1: who are if you like a bit further ahead and

216
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:03,120
Speaker 1: regulations of crypto that both those bodies have talked about,

217
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,840
Speaker 1: how do you have a globally coordinated approach to regulating crypto?

218
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,200
Speaker 1: But that's no difference to other topics. How do you

219
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,880
Speaker 1: have a globally coordinated approach to taxation? How do you

220
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,079
Speaker 1: have a globally coordinated approach to corporate taxation for example?

221
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,640
Speaker 1: These things are very hard, and they're hard in crypto

222
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,240
Speaker 1: as well. So I think if I had to bet,

223
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,080
Speaker 1: I would say it's almost impossible to have the kind

224
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,480
Speaker 1: of coordination you were talking about across jurisdictions, and instead

225
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,000
Speaker 1: you're can have companies playing arbitrage, trying to figure out

226
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,079
Speaker 1: where the best places for them to set up and

227
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,880
Speaker 1: how many people they can serve from that location. And

228
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:38,960
Speaker 1: that's why we're seeing places like Hong Kong do what

229
00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 1: they're doing with their policy shift, which to your point,

230
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,960
Speaker 1: is exactly what we saw with taxation for a while,

231
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,640
Speaker 1: right Like, why did everybody have an Ireland HQ if

232
00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,920
Speaker 1: not to take advantage of those extremely preferential tax treatments

233
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:57,640
Speaker 1: that weren't available to them in other places. We'll be

234
00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,160
Speaker 1: right back with Bloomberg Senior editor for cryptos In Neil

235
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:12,959
Speaker 1: Jack Tianni with more on crypto regulations in Asia. We

236
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,280
Speaker 1: focused a lot on like the institutional side of the house,

237
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,680
Speaker 1: weather from the regulatory perspective of the companies themselves. But

238
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to say three letters, and I just want

239
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:28,440
Speaker 1: your reaction to it, which is a VPN. Yes, UM,

240
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,360
Speaker 1: understand what you're saying. You're what what you're saying is

241
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,200
Speaker 1: that technology can make a laughing stock of any kind

242
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,520
Speaker 1: of regulatory approach, right UM, And to an extent, I agree,

243
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,160
Speaker 1: But I feel like what we're seeing now with the

244
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,800
Speaker 1: ft X collapse is going to really concentrate the minds

245
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,920
Speaker 1: of regulators. I think they're gonna look really really closely

246
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:52,440
Speaker 1: at things like disclosure, making sure that UM exchanges really

247
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,520
Speaker 1: are very clear that client assets are safe, disclosing very

248
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 1: clearly where leaveradge is disclosing very clearly, how they manage.

249
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,000
Speaker 1: I think all of these things are going to shoot

250
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,320
Speaker 1: up and be front of set, know, front of house

251
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,400
Speaker 1: for regulators. It's going to be less about what's the

252
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,600
Speaker 1: taxonomy your tokens and how do they operate and how

253
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,160
Speaker 1: do we figure that out? And it's going to be

254
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,640
Speaker 1: more about the traditional things. Here's a crypto outfit. Okay,

255
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,000
Speaker 1: what do we know about it? Where the assets are

256
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,080
Speaker 1: they safe? How much the lead which if they really

257
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,200
Speaker 1: got um, have they got the right kind of risk

258
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,440
Speaker 1: management practices. I think it's going to be a lot

259
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,400
Speaker 1: of that that we see coming through over the next

260
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,480
Speaker 1: few years. But it's not going to happen quickly, so

261
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,960
Speaker 1: there's lots of time for more things to blow up

262
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,680
Speaker 1: while they try and put that into place. The perpetual

263
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,280
Speaker 1: struggle of regulators, it's like you're always fighting not the

264
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,040
Speaker 1: last war, but like the one before that. Yeah, exactly.

265
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,160
Speaker 1: I don't envy them. It's a very hard task. It's

266
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,280
Speaker 1: hard enough for regular finance. Can you imagine how haw

267
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,720
Speaker 1: they must be for for for crypto. Somebody was talking

268
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,440
Speaker 1: the other day about not stable coins, but what they

269
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,600
Speaker 1: call flat coins, things that would go up and value

270
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,400
Speaker 1: along with inflation while retaining their essential value beyond that.

271
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,120
Speaker 1: So you can see from the point to be a regulator. Okay,

272
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,000
Speaker 1: we're trying to get our head around stable coins, and

273
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,800
Speaker 1: now people talking about flat coins at the time, I

274
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,640
Speaker 1: would go up with inflation. How's that going to work?

275
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,880
Speaker 1: So it's it's almost it's like a Gordian knot right.

276
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,000
Speaker 1: It's almost impossible to untangle um. But that's what they've

277
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 1: paid the small or big bucks to do. Mostly small,

278
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:24,960
Speaker 1: mostly small. Thank you, big headaches, yeah, small box, big headaches. Well,

279
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,880
Speaker 1: thank you very much for that tour of crypto regulation

280
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,000
Speaker 1: in Asia pac Where can folks find you if they

281
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,680
Speaker 1: want to see more of your coverage or at least

282
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,280
Speaker 1: know what you're up to. You know, you can probably

283
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,520
Speaker 1: find my byeline here here or there on on the

284
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,760
Speaker 1: Bloombloo terminal or on the Bloomberg website as well. And

285
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,560
Speaker 1: if you have any complaints please send them to stay

286
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,640
Speaker 1: sy Marie. Thank you very much, fair enough, fair enough,

287
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:53,880
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to they. I'll take care. This

288
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,000
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I

289
00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,320
Speaker 1: Heeart Radio. For more shows from I Heeart Radio, visit

290
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,400
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

291
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,439
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions or suggestions

292
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:13,119
Speaker 1: for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net. The

293
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:17,119
Speaker 1: supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Verglina. Our senior

294
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,760
Speaker 1: producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed Faruk and

295
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,520
Speaker 1: Sharon Barriro. Our associate producers are Ty Butler and Moses

296
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,800
Speaker 1: on Them. Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original music

297
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:33,840
Speaker 1: by Leo Sidrin. I'm Stacy Marie Schmal We'll be back tomorrow.