WEBVTT - Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River

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<v Speaker 1>H ii am, welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh.

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<v Speaker 1>There's Chuck. Jerry's here too, sitting in for Dave, and

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<v Speaker 1>the three of us are on the run through the

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<v Speaker 1>Canadian Arctic recreating the story of the Mad Trapper, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's not going very well for us.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, the Mad Trapper of rhet River aka perhaps

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<v Speaker 2>I don't even know about, perhaps almost certainly Canada's most

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<v Speaker 2>infamous unknown person on the Lamb, and the largest manhunt

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<v Speaker 2>in Canada's history conducted to try and get this guy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is a I saw it referred to as

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<v Speaker 1>like an iconic Canadian story. This guy just tore us

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<v Speaker 1>up in nineteen thirty one, made international headlines and died.

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<v Speaker 1>It's still to this day, no one knows who he is,

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<v Speaker 1>and not one of those things where like we're pretty

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<v Speaker 1>sure it's this guy, we just can't prove it. They

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<v Speaker 1>have no idea who who this guy is. They're starting

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<v Speaker 1>to kind of chew around the edges of it. But

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that he is still unidentified just makes it

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<v Speaker 1>that much more interesting. But even if you were identified, Chuck,

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<v Speaker 1>his story is still just totally fascinating on its own.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's not like Somerton Man, because that was the

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<v Speaker 2>most interesting thing about that was the mystery of who

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<v Speaker 2>he was. It wouldn't care, it wouldn't matter if this

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<v Speaker 2>guy was indeed Albert Johnson, who was his alias. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a remarkable story that started in July nineteen thirty one

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<v Speaker 2>when this guy Albert Johnson came and moved there. They

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<v Speaker 2>think he may have come from Sweden, according to certain

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<v Speaker 2>people who talk to him here and there. But he

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<v Speaker 2>was a man of very few words, as we'll see,

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<v Speaker 2>when he arrived in the vast remote area of the

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<v Speaker 2>Northwest Territories near Fort McPherson and built a little eight

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<v Speaker 2>by ten foot cabin near the Rat River.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and we're talking like the northern most parts of Canada,

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<v Speaker 1>like basically along the Arctic Ocean.

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<v Speaker 2>In the thirties.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he was essentially living where the guys from the

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<v Speaker 1>Terror and the Arebus that we talked about were trying

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<v Speaker 1>to get to when they were like on their march

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<v Speaker 1>down toward Canada. They had they done this in nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>thirty one, they might have run into Albert Johnson. He

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<v Speaker 1>was that far up right. So this is a really

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<v Speaker 1>really rugged, wild, dangerous place to live and like you

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<v Speaker 1>said he arrived in July. In a few months after that,

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<v Speaker 1>I think in November December of nineteen thirty one, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>December of nineteen thirty one, a couple of trappers from

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<v Speaker 1>the First Nations who lived up there, got in touch

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<v Speaker 1>with one of the local police and said, Hey, there's

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<v Speaker 1>this guy. His name's Albert Johnson, and he's messing with

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<v Speaker 1>our trap lines and he's not supposed to do that,

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<v Speaker 1>so can you go tell him to stop doing that?

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<v Speaker 1>And three days later, a couple of cops just knocked

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<v Speaker 1>on Johnson's cabin door, assuming that they were just going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk to him and tell him to stop doing that,

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<v Speaker 1>and that would be that, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, these are the Mounties, so these guys

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<v Speaker 2>are not messing around. The story is a little confusing

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<v Speaker 2>because everywhere you look it's a little different. But from

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<v Speaker 2>what I gathered, there were three total visits. One visit

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<v Speaker 2>when he basically said get the heck out of here

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<v Speaker 2>and pointed a gun at them. A second visit when

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<v Speaker 2>two guys came back, and this time he supposedly refused

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<v Speaker 2>to talk at all, and when they went to look

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<v Speaker 2>through his windows, he just covered his windows up and

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<v Speaker 2>ignored them and then.

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<v Speaker 1>Smasher.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess four total, because the third one was when

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<v Speaker 2>those two guys plus two more I think it was

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<v Speaker 2>Alfred King and Joe Bernard and two more guys came

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<v Speaker 2>back with warrants, forced the door over and he shot

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<v Speaker 2>King and a brief firefight ensued. And then finally the

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<v Speaker 2>fourth visit when they brought a bunch of guys with

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<v Speaker 2>dynamite and camped out for three days outside his cabin.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they threw Dinah on his roof to flush him out,

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<v Speaker 1>and it certainly blew up the roof as expected, it

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<v Speaker 1>also took down some of the walls of the cabin,

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<v Speaker 1>and amazingly, Albert Johnson survived, and even more amazingly, he

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<v Speaker 1>still refused to come out and engaged in a gunfight

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<v Speaker 1>with this posse that the Mounties had assembled to go

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<v Speaker 1>take this guy out because like, he shot at an

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<v Speaker 1>officer who just wanted to tell him to stop messing

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<v Speaker 1>with trap lines, like shot and tried to kill him. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>So this guy was already a big deal by this time,

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<v Speaker 1>and he managed to hold off this posse from taking

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<v Speaker 1>him alive. They actually had to get out of there

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<v Speaker 1>because they were running low on food, and the weather

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<v Speaker 1>was terrible. This is this is December in the northernmost

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<v Speaker 1>reaches of Canada along the Arctic. Now the time you

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<v Speaker 1>want to be outside. Apparently the temperature was a negative

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<v Speaker 1>forty five. And this guy's holding these guys down in

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<v Speaker 1>a gunfight. And then they leave, and four days later

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<v Speaker 1>they come back, and now they find that this destroyed

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<v Speaker 1>cabin is now empty. He's fled, and a blizzard has

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<v Speaker 1>covered up his tracks.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I saw that it was like a sixty mile

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<v Speaker 2>hike just to get to his place. So the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that they came back four times when this guy probably

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<v Speaker 2>could have opened the door the first time and said

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<v Speaker 2>all right, I won't mess with their traps anymore, and

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<v Speaker 2>that probably would have been the end of it. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>he managed to evade them on this man hunt by

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<v Speaker 2>stepping in caribou tracks and from these storms that would

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<v Speaker 2>come through, and maybe that's a good time for a break. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>all right, we'll be right back.

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't think we said yet. Now there's a

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<v Speaker 1>man hunt underway. This guy who they want to take

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<v Speaker 1>in for shooting at cops is on the run in

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<v Speaker 1>the Canadian wilderness, and this man hunt lasted seven weeks

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<v Speaker 1>from December to mid February. This guy kept evading them.

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<v Speaker 1>They'd catch up to him, he'd shoot at him, they'd

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<v Speaker 1>have a firefight. One time he killed a cop, Constable Millin,

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<v Speaker 1>who was like a member of this posse that was

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<v Speaker 1>hunting him down. And he would manage to fend them

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<v Speaker 1>off every time they caught him in a firefight. And

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<v Speaker 1>one of the other interesting facts about this chuck is

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<v Speaker 1>this is the first time an aircraft was ever used

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<v Speaker 1>in a manhunt as far as anyone knows.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. They got a pretty legendary WW one Canadian

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<v Speaker 2>fighter pilot name named Wilfrid Wilfrid wap May to come

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<v Speaker 2>in a little side note here, wop May was in

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<v Speaker 2>the dogfight that ended the Red Baron's life. So a

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<v Speaker 2>very sort of famous Canadian fighter pilot flying above for

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<v Speaker 2>the first time seeing if they could see and if

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<v Speaker 2>you could just spot trails from above.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I saw a photo that he took from his

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<v Speaker 1>aircraft of like this, like he was really high up

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<v Speaker 1>and there's a little tiny speck in the middle of

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<v Speaker 1>a frozen river and it's identified as Albert Johnson. And

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<v Speaker 1>then there's like three more tiny specks coming out of

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<v Speaker 1>the woodline, chasing after Johnson and what may got a

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<v Speaker 1>picture of it, and it's just when you understand what

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<v Speaker 1>you're looking at, it's just astounding what these guys were

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<v Speaker 1>running through over the course of seven weeks. It's nuts.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>And so people heard about this thanks to the radio,

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<v Speaker 1>which was still a pretty new invention, but this story

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<v Speaker 1>that was kind of playing out over the news in

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<v Speaker 1>real time actually helped sell a bunch of new radios

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<v Speaker 1>because people didn't want to miss out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, supposedly this is one of the really first big

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<v Speaker 2>news stories to be broken via electronic media. So you've

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<v Speaker 2>got your first search and rescue or I guess not

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<v Speaker 2>search and rescue, search and destroy, mission feeding featuring a plane.

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<v Speaker 2>You've got the first big news stories breaking on radio

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<v Speaker 2>for the first time. One of the weird parts of

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<v Speaker 2>this case I said he was a man of few

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<v Speaker 2>words is, as the story goes, this guy didn't say

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<v Speaker 2>a word the whole time, Like there was never like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's my right to be here, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>get away. I'm just trying to live. Like supposedly this

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<v Speaker 2>guy said nothing to any of them.

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<v Speaker 1>That is so unsettling. It's just totally It's another thing

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<v Speaker 1>that just kind of adds to his legend too.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, people by this time, this was during the Depression,

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<v Speaker 1>and a lot of the public that was following the

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<v Speaker 1>story were actually rooting for him because remember this was

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<v Speaker 1>a time when the public rooted for like bank robbers

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<v Speaker 1>and and other curials and outlaws because the establishment had

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<v Speaker 1>basically screwed everything up and taken advantage of everybody. So

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<v Speaker 1>there were people who were pulling for him, And even

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<v Speaker 1>if you weren't pulling for him, it was just astounding

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<v Speaker 1>what this guy was doing with just some I think

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<v Speaker 1>he had a rifle and a shotgun, he had his clothes,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was like out maneuvering and surviving against this

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<v Speaker 1>posse that was on his trail. And I also saw

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<v Speaker 1>chuck that one of the unsung or overlooked groups that

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<v Speaker 1>was part of this posse were some of the first

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<v Speaker 1>Nation members who helped track him. That this posse probably

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<v Speaker 1>would have lost his trail in the first few days

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<v Speaker 1>had it not been for the trackers that came with him.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think the Loose Show people were the ones

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<v Speaker 2>who initially filed the complaint didn't. Did you see which

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<v Speaker 2>tribes helped out in the search.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't. I just saw that one of the members

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<v Speaker 1>last name was Rat. So I'm guessing he was named

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<v Speaker 1>after the Rat River that the River family was. Yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>So. Another part of the kind of a fun fact

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<v Speaker 2>of this story is, or at least part of the lore,

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<v Speaker 2>is that at one point they had him pinned in

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<v Speaker 2>a steep canyon and he supposedly scaled a near vertical

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<v Speaker 2>wall of ice basically to get out of there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So at this point they're like, this guy is

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<v Speaker 1>not human. Yeah, and again another First Nations member comes through.

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<v Speaker 1>I think somebody came back and mentioned that they heard

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<v Speaker 1>a rifle shot in this like totally desolate area and

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<v Speaker 1>the Royal Canadian Mounty posse where like, well, they can

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<v Speaker 1>only be Albert Johnson. And they headed that way and

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<v Speaker 1>they found his trail and they started chasing him and

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<v Speaker 1>they engaged in one last firefight with him, and this

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<v Speaker 1>one Albert Johnson didn't come out of alive.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. They got him finally after this long, long

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<v Speaker 2>man hunt, a very successful evasion for a long time,

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<v Speaker 2>but yeah, they eventually got him. No one knows I

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<v Speaker 2>mean part of the you know, the second part of

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<v Speaker 2>this is just the mystery, like not only who was

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<v Speaker 2>he literally, but like who was this guy to move

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<v Speaker 2>way out there to not you know, they supposedly back,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, closer to town, even though I'm sure that was

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<v Speaker 2>super small as well. It was like a very friendly place,

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<v Speaker 2>and he was known as a loner and very unfriendly,

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<v Speaker 2>which was not the norm. And like, who was this guy?

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<v Speaker 2>He just moved out to the middle of nowhere and

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<v Speaker 2>like didn't speak a word this entire time.

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<v Speaker 1>M hm, right, yeah, why why.

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<v Speaker 2>Would he do this?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah, which is just deepens the mystery further. By

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<v Speaker 1>the way, one other thing, it was Charlie Ratt, who

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<v Speaker 1>was the guy that helped the Mounties find how nice

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<v Speaker 1>Albert Johnson.

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<v Speaker 2>What a name.

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<v Speaker 1>So they had a picture of him. There's a very well,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess famous if your Canadian picture of his dead

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<v Speaker 1>body on like a morgue slab, that.

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<v Speaker 2>Would mess with the guy.

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<v Speaker 1>No, he looks rough and tough, for sure, he does.

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<v Speaker 1>He like you could not know his story and see

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<v Speaker 1>that picture of his dead body and be like, I'll

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<v Speaker 1>bet that guy could survive in the Canadian wilderness for

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<v Speaker 1>seven weeks with the cops on his trail.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure, I would would want nothing to do

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<v Speaker 2>with this guy.

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<v Speaker 1>So they took this picture because they wanted to circulate.

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody wanted to know who this guy was, and it

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<v Speaker 1>made it in all the papers in Canada and the

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<v Speaker 1>United States, and no one came forward. The details of

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<v Speaker 1>his life and demeanor didn't match anything that anybody knew of.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, like, people came forward with tips, but none

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<v Speaker 1>of them were legitimate or panned out. And very quickly

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<v Speaker 1>this guy just became this anonymous weirdo who did some

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<v Speaker 1>crazy stuff in the winter of nineteen thirty one.

0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so, like you said, they exhumed his body in

0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:53.080
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and seven once DNA sampling was you know,

0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:57.520
<v Speaker 2>a viable thing, and that has enabled some genetic comparisons

0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.680
<v Speaker 2>to possible relatives. They obviously he didn't, you know, no

0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:02.800
<v Speaker 2>one has come forward with it like a perfect match

0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.839
<v Speaker 2>or anything. But they made comparisons with more than two

0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:12.280
<v Speaker 2>dozen families and they have some strong, circumstantial evidence that

0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.760
<v Speaker 2>what family he may have been from and where they

0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.760
<v Speaker 2>have landed. Now is that they're pretty sure that his

0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:23.400
<v Speaker 2>background is Swedish and he has been linked to multiple

0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:28.320
<v Speaker 2>descendants of a gentleman named Gustaf Magnuson who died in

0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:33.320
<v Speaker 2>eighteen fifty three and Britta sven daughter who passed away

0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:37.200
<v Speaker 2>in eighteen forty six, and they are pretty sure that

0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.520
<v Speaker 2>he's a descendant of them, But nobody from any of

0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.200
<v Speaker 2>those bloodlines has come forward either.

0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:49.040
<v Speaker 1>No, and this company called Authrom, a genome sequencing company,

0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.199
<v Speaker 1>they have figured out a few other things about him

0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:56.199
<v Speaker 1>that he almost certainly grew up in the Midwestern United States.

0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:01.480
<v Speaker 1>His autopsy revealed that he had extensive and expensive dental work,

0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.200
<v Speaker 1>and then he had scoliosis. Yeah, this guy did this

0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.640
<v Speaker 1>for seven weeks scale the near vertical face cliff with

0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:14.720
<v Speaker 1>scoliosis as well. He was just amazing in a really

0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:16.000
<v Speaker 1>kind of specific way.

0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:18.920
<v Speaker 2>I think one foot was bigger than the other one too,

0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.840
<v Speaker 2>which Lord I thought was a very strange little uh

0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:22.720
<v Speaker 2>add on.

0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, but also if he grew up in the Midwest,

0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.240
<v Speaker 1>like the stuff he was doing, there's not many places

0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:30.960
<v Speaker 1>to learn that. I mean, I guess if you're from

0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.680
<v Speaker 1>like Upper Minnesota or something, but I'm guessing comparing an

0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:38.280
<v Speaker 1>Upper Minnesota winter to in Upper Canada winters like night

0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:39.560
<v Speaker 1>and day, so.

0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.440
<v Speaker 2>They contend he was never like a Swedish resident.

0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:47.120
<v Speaker 1>They don't necessarily contend that he could have been a

0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:49.840
<v Speaker 1>transplant from Sweden who was just raised in like a

0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Swedish speaking community.

0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so he could just wonder about like ice wall

0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.000
<v Speaker 2>climbing and stuff. He could probably do that in Sweden.

0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, apparently based on

0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.520
<v Speaker 1>and his teeth isotopes that he was born he was

0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.480
<v Speaker 1>raised or grew up in the mid the middle of Yes. Yeah,

0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.040
<v Speaker 1>all right, so maybe one day we'll.

0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Know maybe, I mean, we found out the Summerton Man's identity, right.

0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I don't think we ever mentioned it on

0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.560
<v Speaker 1>the episode on the podcast, do we. Yeah.

0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 2>I think we read a listener mail because we got

0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:21.800
<v Speaker 2>like ten thousand Australians.

0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Great, well, if it ever comes out, who's the mad

0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:26.960
<v Speaker 1>Trapper of Rat River? Was everybody? We want to know?

0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.400
<v Speaker 1>So we can tell everybody else. Sure. Yeah. And in

0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:36.480
<v Speaker 1>the meantime, Chuck, I think short Stuff is out. Stuff

0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:38.440
<v Speaker 1>you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.160
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0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:50.440
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