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Speaker 1: H ii am, welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh.

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Speaker 1: There's Chuck. Jerry's here too, sitting in for Dave, and

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Speaker 1: the three of us are on the run through the

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Speaker 1: Canadian Arctic recreating the story of the Mad Trapper, and

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Speaker 1: it's not going very well for us.

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Speaker 2: That's right, the Mad Trapper of rhet River aka perhaps

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Speaker 2: I don't even know about, perhaps almost certainly Canada's most

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Speaker 2: infamous unknown person on the Lamb, and the largest manhunt

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Speaker 2: in Canada's history conducted to try and get this guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a I saw it referred to as

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Speaker 1: like an iconic Canadian story. This guy just tore us

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Speaker 1: up in nineteen thirty one, made international headlines and died.

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Speaker 1: It's still to this day, no one knows who he is,

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Speaker 1: and not one of those things where like we're pretty

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Speaker 1: sure it's this guy, we just can't prove it. They

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Speaker 1: have no idea who who this guy is. They're starting

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Speaker 1: to kind of chew around the edges of it. But

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Speaker 1: the fact that he is still unidentified just makes it

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Speaker 1: that much more interesting. But even if you were identified, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: his story is still just totally fascinating on its own.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not like Somerton Man, because that was the

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Speaker 2: most interesting thing about that was the mystery of who

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Speaker 2: he was. It wouldn't care, it wouldn't matter if this

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Speaker 2: guy was indeed Albert Johnson, who was his alias. It's

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Speaker 2: a remarkable story that started in July nineteen thirty one

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Speaker 2: when this guy Albert Johnson came and moved there. They

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Speaker 2: think he may have come from Sweden, according to certain

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Speaker 2: people who talk to him here and there. But he

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Speaker 2: was a man of very few words, as we'll see,

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Speaker 2: when he arrived in the vast remote area of the

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Speaker 2: Northwest Territories near Fort McPherson and built a little eight

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Speaker 2: by ten foot cabin near the Rat River.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're talking like the northern most parts of Canada,

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Speaker 1: like basically along the Arctic Ocean.

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Speaker 2: In the thirties.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was essentially living where the guys from the

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Speaker 1: Terror and the Arebus that we talked about were trying

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Speaker 1: to get to when they were like on their march

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Speaker 1: down toward Canada. They had they done this in nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty one, they might have run into Albert Johnson. He

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Speaker 1: was that far up right. So this is a really

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Speaker 1: really rugged, wild, dangerous place to live and like you

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Speaker 1: said he arrived in July. In a few months after that,

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Speaker 1: I think in November December of nineteen thirty one, okay,

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Speaker 1: December of nineteen thirty one, a couple of trappers from

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Speaker 1: the First Nations who lived up there, got in touch

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Speaker 1: with one of the local police and said, Hey, there's

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Speaker 1: this guy. His name's Albert Johnson, and he's messing with

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Speaker 1: our trap lines and he's not supposed to do that,

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Speaker 1: so can you go tell him to stop doing that?

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Speaker 1: And three days later, a couple of cops just knocked

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Speaker 1: on Johnson's cabin door, assuming that they were just going

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Speaker 1: to talk to him and tell him to stop doing that,

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Speaker 1: and that would be that, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, these are the Mounties, so these guys

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Speaker 2: are not messing around. The story is a little confusing

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Speaker 2: because everywhere you look it's a little different. But from

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Speaker 2: what I gathered, there were three total visits. One visit

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Speaker 2: when he basically said get the heck out of here

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Speaker 2: and pointed a gun at them. A second visit when

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Speaker 2: two guys came back, and this time he supposedly refused

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Speaker 2: to talk at all, and when they went to look

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Speaker 2: through his windows, he just covered his windows up and

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Speaker 2: ignored them and then.

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Speaker 1: Smasher.

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Speaker 2: I guess four total, because the third one was when

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Speaker 2: those two guys plus two more I think it was

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Speaker 2: Alfred King and Joe Bernard and two more guys came

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Speaker 2: back with warrants, forced the door over and he shot

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Speaker 2: King and a brief firefight ensued. And then finally the

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Speaker 2: fourth visit when they brought a bunch of guys with

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Speaker 2: dynamite and camped out for three days outside his cabin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they threw Dinah on his roof to flush him out,

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Speaker 1: and it certainly blew up the roof as expected, it

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Speaker 1: also took down some of the walls of the cabin,

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Speaker 1: and amazingly, Albert Johnson survived, and even more amazingly, he

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Speaker 1: still refused to come out and engaged in a gunfight

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Speaker 1: with this posse that the Mounties had assembled to go

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Speaker 1: take this guy out because like, he shot at an

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Speaker 1: officer who just wanted to tell him to stop messing

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Speaker 1: with trap lines, like shot and tried to kill him. Right,

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Speaker 1: So this guy was already a big deal by this time,

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Speaker 1: and he managed to hold off this posse from taking

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Speaker 1: him alive. They actually had to get out of there

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Speaker 1: because they were running low on food, and the weather

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Speaker 1: was terrible. This is this is December in the northernmost

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Speaker 1: reaches of Canada along the Arctic. Now the time you

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Speaker 1: want to be outside. Apparently the temperature was a negative

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Speaker 1: forty five. And this guy's holding these guys down in

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Speaker 1: a gunfight. And then they leave, and four days later

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Speaker 1: they come back, and now they find that this destroyed

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Speaker 1: cabin is now empty. He's fled, and a blizzard has

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Speaker 1: covered up his tracks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw that it was like a sixty mile

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Speaker 2: hike just to get to his place. So the fact

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Speaker 2: that they came back four times when this guy probably

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Speaker 2: could have opened the door the first time and said

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Speaker 2: all right, I won't mess with their traps anymore, and

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Speaker 2: that probably would have been the end of it. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: he managed to evade them on this man hunt by

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Speaker 2: stepping in caribou tracks and from these storms that would

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Speaker 2: come through, and maybe that's a good time for a break. Yes,

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Speaker 2: all right, we'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think we said yet. Now there's a

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Speaker 1: man hunt underway. This guy who they want to take

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Speaker 1: in for shooting at cops is on the run in

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Speaker 1: the Canadian wilderness, and this man hunt lasted seven weeks

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Speaker 1: from December to mid February. This guy kept evading them.

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Speaker 1: They'd catch up to him, he'd shoot at him, they'd

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Speaker 1: have a firefight. One time he killed a cop, Constable Millin,

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Speaker 1: who was like a member of this posse that was

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Speaker 1: hunting him down. And he would manage to fend them

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Speaker 1: off every time they caught him in a firefight. And

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Speaker 1: one of the other interesting facts about this chuck is

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Speaker 1: this is the first time an aircraft was ever used

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Speaker 1: in a manhunt as far as anyone knows.

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Speaker 2: That's right. They got a pretty legendary WW one Canadian

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Speaker 2: fighter pilot name named Wilfrid Wilfrid wap May to come

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Speaker 2: in a little side note here, wop May was in

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Speaker 2: the dogfight that ended the Red Baron's life. So a

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Speaker 2: very sort of famous Canadian fighter pilot flying above for

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Speaker 2: the first time seeing if they could see and if

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Speaker 2: you could just spot trails from above.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw a photo that he took from his

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Speaker 1: aircraft of like this, like he was really high up

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Speaker 1: and there's a little tiny speck in the middle of

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Speaker 1: a frozen river and it's identified as Albert Johnson. And

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Speaker 1: then there's like three more tiny specks coming out of

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Speaker 1: the woodline, chasing after Johnson and what may got a

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Speaker 1: picture of it, and it's just when you understand what

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Speaker 1: you're looking at, it's just astounding what these guys were

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Speaker 1: running through over the course of seven weeks. It's nuts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's amazing.

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Speaker 1: And so people heard about this thanks to the radio,

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Speaker 1: which was still a pretty new invention, but this story

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Speaker 1: that was kind of playing out over the news in

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Speaker 1: real time actually helped sell a bunch of new radios

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Speaker 1: because people didn't want to miss out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, supposedly this is one of the really first big

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Speaker 2: news stories to be broken via electronic media. So you've

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Speaker 2: got your first search and rescue or I guess not

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Speaker 2: search and rescue, search and destroy, mission feeding featuring a plane.

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Speaker 2: You've got the first big news stories breaking on radio

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Speaker 2: for the first time. One of the weird parts of

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Speaker 2: this case I said he was a man of few

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Speaker 2: words is, as the story goes, this guy didn't say

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Speaker 2: a word the whole time, Like there was never like,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's my right to be here, you know,

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Speaker 2: get away. I'm just trying to live. Like supposedly this

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Speaker 2: guy said nothing to any of them.

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Speaker 1: That is so unsettling. It's just totally It's another thing

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Speaker 1: that just kind of adds to his legend too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, people by this time, this was during the Depression,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of the public that was following the

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Speaker 1: story were actually rooting for him because remember this was

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Speaker 1: a time when the public rooted for like bank robbers

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Speaker 1: and and other curials and outlaws because the establishment had

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Speaker 1: basically screwed everything up and taken advantage of everybody. So

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Speaker 1: there were people who were pulling for him, And even

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Speaker 1: if you weren't pulling for him, it was just astounding

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Speaker 1: what this guy was doing with just some I think

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Speaker 1: he had a rifle and a shotgun, he had his clothes,

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Speaker 1: and he was like out maneuvering and surviving against this

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Speaker 1: posse that was on his trail. And I also saw

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Speaker 1: chuck that one of the unsung or overlooked groups that

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Speaker 1: was part of this posse were some of the first

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Speaker 1: Nation members who helped track him. That this posse probably

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Speaker 1: would have lost his trail in the first few days

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Speaker 1: had it not been for the trackers that came with him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the Loose Show people were the ones

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Speaker 2: who initially filed the complaint didn't. Did you see which

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Speaker 2: tribes helped out in the search.

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Speaker 1: I didn't. I just saw that one of the members

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Speaker 1: last name was Rat. So I'm guessing he was named

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Speaker 1: after the Rat River that the River family was. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: So. Another part of the kind of a fun fact

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Speaker 2: of this story is, or at least part of the lore,

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Speaker 2: is that at one point they had him pinned in

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Speaker 2: a steep canyon and he supposedly scaled a near vertical

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Speaker 2: wall of ice basically to get out of there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So at this point they're like, this guy is

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Speaker 1: not human. Yeah, and again another First Nations member comes through.

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Speaker 1: I think somebody came back and mentioned that they heard

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Speaker 1: a rifle shot in this like totally desolate area and

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Speaker 1: the Royal Canadian Mounty posse where like, well, they can

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Speaker 1: only be Albert Johnson. And they headed that way and

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Speaker 1: they found his trail and they started chasing him and

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Speaker 1: they engaged in one last firefight with him, and this

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Speaker 1: one Albert Johnson didn't come out of alive.

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Speaker 2: That's right. They got him finally after this long, long

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Speaker 2: man hunt, a very successful evasion for a long time,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, they eventually got him. No one knows I

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Speaker 2: mean part of the you know, the second part of

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Speaker 2: this is just the mystery, like not only who was

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Speaker 2: he literally, but like who was this guy to move

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Speaker 2: way out there to not you know, they supposedly back,

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Speaker 2: you know, closer to town, even though I'm sure that was

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Speaker 2: super small as well. It was like a very friendly place,

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Speaker 2: and he was known as a loner and very unfriendly,

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Speaker 2: which was not the norm. And like, who was this guy?

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Speaker 2: He just moved out to the middle of nowhere and

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Speaker 2: like didn't speak a word this entire time.

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Speaker 1: M hm, right, yeah, why why.

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Speaker 2: Would he do this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, which is just deepens the mystery further. By

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Speaker 1: the way, one other thing, it was Charlie Ratt, who

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Speaker 1: was the guy that helped the Mounties find how nice

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Speaker 1: Albert Johnson.

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Speaker 2: What a name.

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Speaker 1: So they had a picture of him. There's a very well,

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Speaker 1: I guess famous if your Canadian picture of his dead

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Speaker 1: body on like a morgue slab, that.

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Speaker 2: Would mess with the guy.

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Speaker 1: No, he looks rough and tough, for sure, he does.

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Speaker 1: He like you could not know his story and see

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Speaker 1: that picture of his dead body and be like, I'll

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Speaker 1: bet that guy could survive in the Canadian wilderness for

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Speaker 1: seven weeks with the cops on his trail.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I would would want nothing to do

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Speaker 2: with this guy.

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Speaker 1: So they took this picture because they wanted to circulate.

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Speaker 1: Everybody wanted to know who this guy was, and it

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Speaker 1: made it in all the papers in Canada and the

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Speaker 1: United States, and no one came forward. The details of

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Speaker 1: his life and demeanor didn't match anything that anybody knew of.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, people came forward with tips, but none

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Speaker 1: of them were legitimate or panned out. And very quickly

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Speaker 1: this guy just became this anonymous weirdo who did some

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Speaker 1: crazy stuff in the winter of nineteen thirty one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, like you said, they exhumed his body in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and seven once DNA sampling was you know,

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Speaker 2: a viable thing, and that has enabled some genetic comparisons

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Speaker 2: to possible relatives. They obviously he didn't, you know, no

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Speaker 2: one has come forward with it like a perfect match

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Speaker 2: or anything. But they made comparisons with more than two

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Speaker 2: dozen families and they have some strong, circumstantial evidence that

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Speaker 2: what family he may have been from and where they

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Speaker 2: have landed. Now is that they're pretty sure that his

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Speaker 2: background is Swedish and he has been linked to multiple

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Speaker 2: descendants of a gentleman named Gustaf Magnuson who died in

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Speaker 2: eighteen fifty three and Britta sven daughter who passed away

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Speaker 2: in eighteen forty six, and they are pretty sure that

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Speaker 2: he's a descendant of them, But nobody from any of

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Speaker 2: those bloodlines has come forward either.

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Speaker 1: No, and this company called Authrom, a genome sequencing company,

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Speaker 1: they have figured out a few other things about him

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Speaker 1: that he almost certainly grew up in the Midwestern United States.

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Speaker 1: His autopsy revealed that he had extensive and expensive dental work,

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Speaker 1: and then he had scoliosis. Yeah, this guy did this

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Speaker 1: for seven weeks scale the near vertical face cliff with

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Speaker 1: scoliosis as well. He was just amazing in a really

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Speaker 1: kind of specific way.

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Speaker 2: I think one foot was bigger than the other one too,

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Speaker 2: which Lord I thought was a very strange little uh

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Speaker 2: add on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, but also if he grew up in the Midwest,

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Speaker 1: like the stuff he was doing, there's not many places

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Speaker 1: to learn that. I mean, I guess if you're from

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Speaker 1: like Upper Minnesota or something, but I'm guessing comparing an

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Speaker 1: Upper Minnesota winter to in Upper Canada winters like night

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Speaker 1: and day, so.

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Speaker 2: They contend he was never like a Swedish resident.

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Speaker 1: They don't necessarily contend that he could have been a

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Speaker 1: transplant from Sweden who was just raised in like a

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Speaker 1: Swedish speaking community.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so he could just wonder about like ice wall

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Speaker 2: climbing and stuff. He could probably do that in Sweden.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, apparently based on

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Speaker 1: and his teeth isotopes that he was born he was

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Speaker 1: raised or grew up in the mid the middle of Yes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right, so maybe one day we'll.

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Speaker 2: Know maybe, I mean, we found out the Summerton Man's identity, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't think we ever mentioned it on

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Speaker 1: the episode on the podcast, do we. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think we read a listener mail because we got

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Speaker 2: like ten thousand Australians.

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Speaker 1: Great, well, if it ever comes out, who's the mad

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Speaker 1: Trapper of Rat River? Was everybody? We want to know?

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Speaker 1: So we can tell everybody else. Sure. Yeah. And in

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Speaker 1: the meantime, Chuck, I think short Stuff is out. Stuff

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Speaker 1: you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

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