WEBVTT - The Cauldron, Part 1 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:07.760 Round about the cauldron. Go in the poisoned entrails. Throw 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:12.799 toad that under cold stone days and nights has thirty 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:18.159 worn sweltered venom sleeping got boiled out first in the 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:22.640 charm it pot double double toil and trouble, fire burn 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:26.599 and cauldron bubble. Filliat of a finny snake in the 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:31.000 cauldron boil and bake, I of newt and toe of frog, 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:34.960 wool of bat and tongue of dog, adder's fork and 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:40.360 blindworm's sting, lizard's leg and Howlett's wing for a charm 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:44.680 of powerful trouble like a hell broth Boil and bubble, 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:58.760 double double toil and trouble, fire burn and cauldron bubble. 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:09.400 Welcome to to Blow Your Mind production of My Heart Radio. Hey, 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:11.720 welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:15.399 Robert Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. And Rob why did 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.199 you ask me to read from Macbeth in a witchy voice? 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:22.080 What what is that going to lead into? Well, of 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:25.600 course we're gonna be talking about cauldrons and and certainly 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.040 in Western traditions, I feel like one of the first 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.840 places that one's mind goes is um is to go 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:35.280 to act for a scene one of William Shakespeare's Macbeth. Uh, 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.600 this is the scene that we we just read from 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:42.400 round about the cauldron go. Uh. It's uh, and it 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:45.959 does bring together a number of the ideas of the 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.960 cauldron that will be discussed in these episodes. Uh. And 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:51.520 of course it's just just a factuless scene in general, 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.480 with which is doing their their their witchy best to 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:58.480 make some sort of horrific potion. Now, obviously you have 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.760 had cauldron's on the rain. What sent you down this path? 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:03.640 How did we end up here? You know, I don't 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:05.960 remember exactly. It was something that came up in previous 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:09.480 research for another episode. I started noticing the cauldron and 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:11.280 I was like, oh, well, there's a lot here we 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.560 should consider coming back to it. And indeed there there 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.400 is quite a lot, because on one hand you have 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:21.600 just the history of mundane but fascinating cooking technology, and 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:25.560 then you have the different sacred and supernatural directions. This 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:29.000 goes in as in as well. Uh. Certainly there's the 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:32.320 the Asian tradition, which we'll probably get to first, but 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:36.000 then there's this rich Western tradition going back to uh 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:38.720 Celtic traditions and so forth. And some of these are 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:42.919 perhaps more connected with the Cauldron of Macbeth, and we'll 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:46.640 probably discuss that in a subsequent episode. But but it 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:48.640 is you need to ask ourselves, like, what do we 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.880 think of when we think of cauldron? Um. I know 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.760 I instantly think, of course, of this scene from Macbeth, 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.920 but I also instantly think back to a trio of 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:01.560 early eighties film. As I think of beast Master, I 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:03.960 think of Conan the Barbarian, and I also think it 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:05.720 was both from nineteen two, but I also think of 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.760 nineteen Clash of the Titans. All three of these have 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.639 some sort of a cannibal stew going on some and 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:16.280 some sort of a big broth that it is revealed, 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:20.520 has human parts within it. Now, in the Clash of 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:24.120 the Titans, there's an interesting connection because the cauldron is 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:29.040 being tended by three Crones, the Green Sisters, who are 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:33.360 part of the story of of Perseus and Medusa, and 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:36.120 it's hard not to notice the similarities with the three 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:39.560 which Sisters in Macbeth. There, Yeah, it's my understanding there 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.840 is a connection here. These are essentially the ancient predecessors 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:46.960 of Macbeth's which is um. Now, as for the cannibal stoos. Yeah, 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.440 I think it's a case where I'm just guessing Humber 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:51.600 based on the timeline. I think they invoked it and 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:55.520 Clashes of the Titans, and then either overtly or not, 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:57.880 the makers of Beast Master and Conan and we're like, oh, 0:03:57.920 --> 0:03:59.560 we need to get in on that. That's that's a 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.160 great get get get a cannibal stew in here. But 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:04.800 if that's the case, why didn't Conan have a pet 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:08.000 mechanical owl. I know, I know, it's a it's it's 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:09.840 a it's a flaw. It's often pointed out as a 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:14.280 flaw of that film. Conan needs a robot. I think 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.040 another film that people might think of would be the 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.200 Disney film The Black Cauldron, based on the work of 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:24.280 Lloyd Alexander. And this of course drew from Welsh mythology, 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.200 and we'll get into some of that in subsequent episodes. 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.080 But I asked my ten year old son what he 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:31.680 thought about when I mentioned the word cauldron. H he 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.680 has not seen Well, he's seen Um Clash of the 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:36.680 Titans and loves it, but he hasn't seen the other 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:38.800 two films. When I asked him, he said, well, I 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.200 think of soup, and I think of Harry Potter, the 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:43.520 Ladder of which of course is also linked to Western 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:47.120 traditions of of witches and so forth. And I think 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:49.839 the Potter books and films are probably a key modern 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.159 pop culture reference regarding cauldron's You know, I started thinking 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:56.400 about something with this word, but then started doubting myself. 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:58.400 I'll see what you what you think about this, So 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:00.880 I don't know if there's already in a ablished term 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.640 for this type of phenomenon, But I was thinking about 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:07.480 how cauldron is something you might call like a charged 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:12.840 variant of a concept, a word that has extremely mundane 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.400 literal synonyms, like literally literally, a cauldron is just a 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:20.039 large pot or a big pot, I think, perhaps one 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.120 that is especially used over an open flame, more so 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:26.640 than in like an indoor cook top setting. Uh. And 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.200 yet the word suggests a world of associations that it's 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:34.560 literal synonyms do not. Like in English, large pot does 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:38.840 not have any special magic swirling about it, but cauldron does. 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.080 Anytime you say the word cauldron, it suggests, you know, 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.919 this is trollish sorcery, something is going on. But then again, 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.600 maybe it's not that remarkable because I guess you can 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:51.200 think of other things associated with magic, like I think 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:54.640 the word wand literally just means like a rod or 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.080 a stick, but in modern English it is pretty much 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.920 always associated with magic. Yea. It is interesting to think 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.560 about this because with the with the cauldron, you could 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:08.000 sort of go cauldron, pot, croc pot, instant pot, and 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.520 and the closer you get the instant. Like the the 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.520 instant pot, it does not have really any nefarious or 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:19.320 magical connotations. It's thoroughly modern um, nothing to fear. And 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.760 I feel like the further back through the terminology you go, yes, 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:27.360 the stranger things get um because even pot is more 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.600 intimidating than croc pot. Well, I wonder if there's generally 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:35.200 a thing in languages where there's like an archaic synonym 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:40.040 for a word that loses its mundane associations, like one 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:44.919 one synonym maintains the mundanity through the ages and the 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:49.719 other one only retains usage in magically charged scenarios. Yeah, 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:51.000 I mean I think that's the case. I'm not sure 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.120 if we're gonna end up keeping the third which is 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.120 bit from the the opening here, but there is a 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.720 line in that where the um where the wid rhymes 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:05.880 children with cauldron children being uh, this old term for 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:09.480 like in trails. But I didn't do a deep dive 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.640 into this terminology, but it's my understanding like that was 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.360 that was already an archaic term, uh when Shakespeare used 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.960 it or or you know, or and or a more 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.920 specified term. But you do what you have to do 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:23.440 when you need a rhyme something with cauldron. Yeah, what 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:27.800 else fits in their squadron? Not really? I mean, you 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:29.480 can make it work, but why are which is going 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:31.840 to be talking about squadrons? How about? How about how 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:35.880 about Godson cauldron? That's kind of a maybe maybe I 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.000 think you gotta put some spin on the pronunciation though 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.640 that's like an eminem style style. Yeah, you gotta be 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:44.080 a pro to make that work. So all in all, 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:48.080 there is a rich tradition of cauldron's overflowing with powers 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:54.480 of death, creation, domination, torment, and divination. But before we 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.480 get into all of this properly, we have to back up. 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:00.160 We have to really talk about the mundane world of 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.200 cauldrons as well, And so we're gonna have to talk about, 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:07.000 you know, the origins of soup technology, which I've been 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:10.480 super excited about all weekend and um, I think my 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:12.680 family is sick of hearing about it. You've been talking 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:14.840 about souper lot. Did you make soup? No, it's too 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.680 hot for soup, that's the thing. Oh yeah, I mean 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:20.120 we could have made a spato, I guess, but but no, 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:23.080 I haven't been having any soup. But just reading about 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.480 the traditions of soup, it's made me respected all the more. 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:28.360 I need a cold snap so I can get back 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:31.440 into it. So, first and foremost, as we've been discussing, 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.040 a cauldron is simply a large pot used to boil 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.600 liquid over a fire. So in function, it's it's really 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.800 no different from any pot you have in your kitchen. 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:43.240 It's just generally considered a bigger pot. Now, long before 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.040 the advent of metal pots, we had bowls. We had 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:49.240 pots of pottery as well as presumably ones made of 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.840 wood and leather, though such artifacts don't always stand the 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.040 test of time. Near as well. But one one question 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.160 that's interesting to get into is, Okay, well we're talking 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:01.320 about cauldron's, were inevitably talked thinking about about soups in 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:05.400 many cases, But do you need a pot or you 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:07.120 need a metal potter? Do you need a pot at 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.680 all in order to make soup. I would have thought so. Uh, 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:12.200 there was a time where I would have thought so 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.600 as well, But it turns out it's not necessary because 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:20.360 a hole in the ground is nature's cauldron, um, and 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:23.120 this is something that can be made watertight via the 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.160 use of animal hides, and then one may fill this 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:29.679 hole with water and of course food materials. You're various 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:33.320 ingredients which will of course eventually come together in a 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.560 hot soup. But where's the heat going to come from? 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:38.400 Good question, Yeah, because you can't put a fire under 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:40.160 it if it's a hole in the ground, and to 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.400 hide I mean, I guess there might be specialized situations 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:48.200 where you could depend on geothermal heat, but in this example, 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:50.800 geothermal heat is not available, so you're gonna have to 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.640 create something with fire. The answer is you have an 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.760 adjacent fire, get it nice and hot, and then you 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.719 have hot stones heated up in that fire, and then 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:03.640 those hot stones are transferred from the fire to the soup, 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:05.480 and that is how you heat the soup in the 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.800 whole nice Okay, the hot stone goes in, then you've 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:13.520 got a stew going. Yeah. Now, other perishable above ground 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:17.800 bowls and pots apparently We're also used in different cultures 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:21.320 with this technique UM, which is generally referred to as 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:25.600 stone boiling UM. And in in these cases you would 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.480 often have like a wet bark or hide scenario to 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.360 create the vessel. But stone boiling has been traced to 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:37.199 pre pottery culinary traditions of Native American tribes, Paleolithic Chinese groups, 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.400 and even neander Dolls. And on a quick note about 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.040 about the Chinese culture, Um, I know when we talk 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.760 about the cooking with stones and cooking soup with stones, 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.319 you destually think about the story of stone soup, which 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.240 I believe in most tellings has no relation to to 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:58.520 to to stone boiling. However, Chinese American author Yan Cheng 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:03.800 Compostine acted the classic story but with with the twist uh, 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.079 first of all Chinese twist, setting it in um in 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:10.800 ancient China, but also incorporating a stone boiling motif in 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:14.160 this book called the Real Story of Stone Soup. Well, Rob, 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:15.960 I know, I know you said everybody knows the story, 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:18.520 but maybe some people don't. What's a quick version of 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.760 the stone soup? Well, the classic stone soup, say tail 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.960 is that you know you have some some individual generally 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.400 there's sort of a you know, a rogueish type character. Uh. 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.400 There's actually a great adaptation of this with some additional 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:36.560 elements in Jim Hinson's The Storyteller series. But here's this, uh, 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.160 this man and he's he's cooking up some some water 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.880 and he asked somebody passing by, excuse me, I'm making 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.160 some some soup. Could you help me. I just need 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.839 a nice stone And they're, you know, like, what, what 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:49.240 do you need a stone for it? And then like, 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.160 I'm making stone soup? And so they agree. They bring 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.559 this individual a stone and in many cases, you know, 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.800 the the would be chef here sniffs it, maybe licks 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:01.920 the stone, and it's like, okay, this is a good one. 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.560 Plunks it in and so now now people are beginning 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:07.719 to get interested. Other passers buyers stop and they're like, 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:10.560 what's he doing? He's cooking stone soup. Uh. They asked him, well, 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:12.800 how does it taste when he samples it? And he's like, well, 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.080 it needs a little salt, So he doesn't have salt, 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.920 but somebody is is now they're now invested in this process, 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:22.120 and so someone brings some salt, but then he chased 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:23.959 it again. Knowing these little peppers, So someone brings some 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:27.240 pepper before along. Of course, it needs some celery and 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.800 needs some potatoes, It needs all these other ingredients, and 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.400 at the end of the process, uh, there is this 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.360 great big bowl of soup, and I think in most 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.240 tellings it is then communally enjoyed. Oh well, that's a 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.760 great story and sort of an idea about how you 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:46.240 can you can like hype bootstrap nothing into something. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.760 it's a it's a it's a wonderful tail um. But 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.959 but yeah, in this this adaptation, it takes the stone 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.240 boiling technique and factors it in, which is which I 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.000 found was pretty clever. Now you might wonder what kind 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.160 of evidence is there for stone soup um. So according 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.880 to a few different sources I was looking at, basically 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.240 it comes down to pits that are that are found 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.360 in the archaeological record that have stones in them. Stones 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:13.120 that are cracked from heat, often referred to as thermally 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:17.280 cracked rocks. Uh. So this is this indicates that these 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.720 rocks were heated to a high temperature and then added 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.839 to this broth or added to water to help make 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.599 this broth. And we also tend to see this and 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.480 pit cooking kind of loop together into a combined earth 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.920 oven cooking tradition. Oh yeah, okay, so this wouldn't even 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.240 necessarily always be something like soup. Like I know that 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:39.240 there's some methods for like roasting meat, I think Mesoamerican 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.560 culinary traditions where you'd like wrap some meat in um 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.120 in leaves like wet leaves or something, and then cook 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.720 it in a pit in the ground with hot coals. Yeah, 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.400 so I think it does certainly speak to human innovation, 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.000 Like if the if the hole in the ground is 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.400 your level of cooking technology, it doesn't mean you're not 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.120 coming up with with new and ingenious ways to tinker 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.040 with that four am at, such as as you know, 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:06.120 eventually developing a wet cooking technology. And I guess we 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:07.520 can come back to this in a minute, but I 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.880 think there are real advantages to so called wet cooking 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.559 technologies that they like, they have some miserable benefits that 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.240 some other types of cooking do not, Right, I mean, 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:21.400 so it obviously wet cooking sticks with us, and wet 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:26.200 cooking survives the use of of of of stone boiling. 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.080 Now stone boiling, it does eventually lose out to other techniques, 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:35.200 especially container based cooking with pottery, etcetera. Because ultimately stone 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:39.320 boiling requires more maintenance and it isn't nearly as passive 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:41.920 a technique. So you know, if you're adding those hot 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.080 stones and you have to keep adding new hot stones 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.320 taking out the old stones, Um, you can't just well, 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:49.360 let's put the let's put the soup on, and then 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:51.640 go do these other things required to present the meal. 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.560 Oh yeah, nutrition and taste aside. That's another great thing 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.400 about wet cooking. So if you just like put some 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:58.720 food items in a pot with water and then let 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.000 it boil, you can just or it for a long 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.600 time and it's not gonna burn or anything because there's 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.000 enough water content in there that that that's gonna be fine. Yeah. 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:09.240 So one of another source I was looking at, there's 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.960 a paper titled stone boiling, firecrack Rock and nut Oil 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.600 published in the Wisconsin Archaeologists in two thousand nine by 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.760 James Skibow and uh Skibo points out that the whole 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:24.440 process of adding and removing hot stones during the production 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.160 of nut oil would have resulted in the loss of 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.560 that precious nut oil that was being produced. So that's 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:32.760 another thing to think about It's like, not only is it, 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.440 you know, not a very passive technique, but if you're 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.480 having to keep you know, reaching in there with some 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.920 sort of implement and removing rocks, adding new rocks, you're 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:45.720 going to lose some of of what you're actually brewing up. 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.240 Oh yeah, okay, I can see that it was like 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.520 sticking to the rocks and stuff. Yeah. Uh. And and 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:53.280 then I should also point out though there there is 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:57.080 apparently evidence of stone boiling surviving into the advent of pottery, 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:01.240 with the stones added to water inside of vessels, um 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.680 so um. And then I also I believe examples of 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.440 of stone boiling that is also taking place in some 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:12.000 sort of above ground scenario, some sort of like say 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.680 a wet high bag or a wet bark container. So there, 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.280 it didn't have to happen in the ground. But I 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:22.280 think the most certainly to modern or modern understanding of 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.480 of culinary technologies, I think the hole in the ground 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.960 stone boiling scenario is perhaps the most amazing and the 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.240 most removed from what we seem to be doing. Okay, 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:36.640 so we might not know exactly when the first human 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.840 boiled something, but we do have a pretty clear picture 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:43.320 that wet cooking or boiling, simmering, whatever you wanna call it, 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.600 cooking something in water is a technique that comes along 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.760 later in the history of cooking, because, like fire, goes 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:53.280 back a long time before, and pretty clearly humans were 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.760 maybe say, roasting things over an open flame before they 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.240 had wet cooking techniques. So where do these wet cooking 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.160 techniques come from? Do we think? Well? I found a 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.920 source discussing this. This is from John D. Speth in 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.840 When Did Humans Learn to Boil? Two thousand fifteen, paleo 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:14.000 Anthropology Society. I'm and read a quote from this paper. Quote. 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:16.800 Pits that would have been suitable for stone boiling are 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:21.080 equally scarce until the Upper Paleolithic, although the evidence for 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.840 subsurface features of this sort may have been obscured or 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:29.760 erased by post taphonomic processes. Not surprisingly, therefore, because of 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.200 the late appearance of heated stones and potential boiling pits, 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:37.119 archaeologists almost without exception, have come to the logical conclusion 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:41.320 that wet cooking is a late addition to human culinary practices, 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:45.119 another of a long list of technological achievements which we 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:49.520 owe to the enhanced cognitive powers of fully modern humans. Okay, 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:52.840 so cooking maybe older, but we think wet cooking is 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:56.160 probably something that comes about in the Upper Paleolithic, which 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.440 I think is generally like between something like fifty thousand, 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:09.680 like twelve off thousand years ago than now. Interestingly enough, 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:11.480 I think we've pointed this out before, but it's still 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:13.520 It's one of those facts that I think can can 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:17.800 can can be very stimulating, is that pottery predates agriculture, 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:22.920 and according to Brian Fagan and Bill Sillar, very little 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.119 of the oldest pottery remains are actually charted by fire, 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:31.320 suggesting that these were more prestigious items for displaying food 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.399 than for something you would actually use to cook food. 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.320 So while foragers made use of pottery, we also have 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.200 to remember that this was also the pottery is is 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.760 fragile and it's perhaps not ideal for people who are 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:49.600 traveling around. Uh So, uh this is this is quite 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.159 interesting that that Fagan and Stiler bring up here, is 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:57.320 that the usefulness of pottery, paired with its fragility, might 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.680 have been a contributing factor for some group that had 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.560 pottery to settle down, Like to to make full use 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.479 of the pottery, you might have to stop moving around 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.760 at least a bit and have more of a base 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:15.280 of operations where your pottery has less chance of becoming 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.760 fragmented and shattered and can be used to store things 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.600 as well as present things and so forth. Now some 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.479 of our earliest pottery fragments. It depends where you are 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:28.200 in the timeline of discoveries. Uh So, when Fagan and 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.080 Silo we're writing this is from the seventy grade Inventions 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:36.040 of the ancient World, they were pointing to fourteen thousand 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.359 b c. In Japan as being the the eliest oldest 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:43.400 known pottery discovery. However, after the publication of that book, 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:48.600 a two thousand twelve paper um revealed that chin Rin 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.040 Cave in eastern China was found to contain charred pottery 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.320 fragments dating back twenty thousand years. Yeah, I was looking 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:59.360 around at these questions about what is the earliest evidence 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:03.359 of pottery or pots in general, And the earliest pots 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:05.960 would be pottery. They would be ceramics of some kind 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.960 fired out of clay or other earthen materials, not metal metal. 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:14.200 Metal cooking vessels would come much later. So the earliest 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:16.800 pottery vessels used for cooking. I was looking what's the 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.360 evidence for that? And I came across a paper from 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:25.840 published in Nature by Oliver Craig at All called Earliest 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:29.200 Evidence for the use of Pottery and uh. I also 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.320 was looking at a write up of this in Science 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:35.480 by Sid Perkins called first Evidence of Pottery used for 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.399 Cooking um And at the time this was considered some 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:42.800 of the earliest direct evidence for pottery used explicitly for cooking. 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.879 And my immediate question was, well, what were they cooking 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.280 in it? Do we have any idea? Actually? Yes, this 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.399 paper looks directly into that question what they were cooking 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:53.920 and helps give us a picture of the way of 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:56.680 life of the people who use this pottery. So the 0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:00.800 authors of this paper argue that the evidence indicates pottery 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.720 technology emerged in East Asia between twelve thousand and twenty 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:08.440 thousand years before the present, and it was an innovation 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.400 among hunter gatherers. Rob you mentioned that a minute ago, 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:13.640 but I think it's worth sitting with that for a minute. 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:17.160 It's a strange thing. You might You might assume pottery 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:21.640 only arises among people who have adopted farming and an agricultural, 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.440 settled way of life that allows them to have fixed homes, 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.680 and uh, and you know forges and so forth, that 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:34.320 this kind of industry of of creating earthenware vessels would 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:36.680 arise from that setting. But no, it does appear to 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:40.159 arise before people settled down and started farming. But this 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:45.560 raises the question why was pottery invented? We were getting 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:48.360 an idea of when and where it was invented, but why, 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.560 what was driving it? What was the role it played 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:54.919 in people's lives? Well, the authors of this paper argue 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.600 that for the hunter gatherers who first started making these pots, 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:03.280 and this is looking at um late Pleistocene pottery from Japan, 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:06.639 a total of a hundred and one charred deposits from 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:10.480 thirteen different sites all over the Japanese islands, and these 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:15.560 would be pots associated with the Joeman culture that j. O. M. O. N. 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:20.080 Craig and co authors here argue that what would have 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:24.680 caused people to to uptake pottery in this context is 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:28.040 if the pottery provided people with new ways to process 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:31.840 and consume foods. This would be the driving technological advantage. 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.240 But we don't know exactly how these earliest pots were used. 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:38.880 So this study did a chemical analysis on the residue 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:42.320 left on the these charred deposits on pottery from all 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:46.879