Speaker 1: Afro Tech World. Will Campbell, the CEO at Quantity and
Speaker 1: Associates and award winning creative agency. He's on the virtual stage.
Speaker 1: He discussed how M and A mergers and acquisitions can
Speaker 1: play a pivotal role in helping you grow your business
Speaker 1: and achieve your vision. I want to talk about why, um, briefly,
Speaker 1: mergers and acquisitions were so important, especially for multicultural companies
Speaker 1: and for the black businesses. Is we need to create larger,
Speaker 1: more influential companies. So you might say, as an entrepreneur
Speaker 1: or a founder, UM, hey, you know, my goal is
Speaker 1: not to be some massive company. UM. I really just
Speaker 1: want to pursue my passion. You know, I really want
Speaker 1: to just um if I could change one life, UM,
Speaker 1: I've done my job. UM. I just want to make
Speaker 1: something that's right for you know, my family. And that's
Speaker 1: all great. But at the same time, the business community
Speaker 1: needs you. We need your ideas, we need your hustle,
Speaker 1: we need your innovation, and we need you to create larger,
Speaker 1: more influential companies. UM. No matter what type of company
Speaker 1: you are, is it helps you deepen the capacity that
Speaker 1: drives your mission. UM. So as a visionary, as a
Speaker 1: person with an idea m n A can become an
Speaker 1: incredible growth strategy that gives more capacity, of more foundation
Speaker 1: to what your overall missions. I'm will Lucas, Mrs Black Tech,
Speaker 1: Green Money. I want to answer this you to some
Speaker 1: of the biggest names, some of the brightest minds in
Speaker 1: brilliant ideas. If you're black in building or simply using
Speaker 1: tech to secure your bag, this podcast is for you.
Speaker 1: Elliot Robinson, his partner had Best of Me Invented Partners.
Speaker 1: He has fifteen years of international experience investing and partnering
Speaker 1: with world class entrepreneurs and the technology companies that they lead.
Speaker 1: He spent six years focused on Series A and B investments,
Speaker 1: followed by seven years and county focused on growth stays,
Speaker 1: Series C, D and E opportunities. I asked Elliott about
Speaker 1: how cloud computing in the Asia COVID might accelerate innovation
Speaker 1: in stubborn industries. So I oftentimes like to to leverage
Speaker 1: a quote from one of my favorite CEOs. You know,
Speaker 1: before I joined best Mer as a partner in twelve Ventures,
Speaker 1: which was Microsoft Global Venture punt and in that role,
Speaker 1: I was lucky to spend some time with Sashi Nondella,
Speaker 1: who's still the CEO of Microsoft, and it was probably
Speaker 1: maybe like three months ago after earnings follower. During an
Speaker 1: earnings follower, Satia said, you know, we've seen more digital
Speaker 1: transformation decisions and initiatives being taken by our client base
Speaker 1: and customers in the last two months than we have
Speaker 1: in the last two years. And what does that really mean. UM,
Speaker 1: that means there's been some kind of legacy industries that
Speaker 1: have bought software in a certain way for two plus decades,
Speaker 1: you know, on prim software where people still have to
Speaker 1: come to your premise, sit there and like swap out
Speaker 1: the CDs or download things onto your system. UM. But
Speaker 1: now with with you know, the proliferation of cloud computing,
Speaker 1: you can do all of that remotely. You can continuously
Speaker 1: update and release new software. So when Satia says he's
Speaker 1: seen more digital transformation in the last two months in
Speaker 1: the last few years, what he's really saying is, you know,
Speaker 1: powered by UM, things like AWS and Azure and g CP,
Speaker 1: folks are just really pushing cloud software applications to the forefront,
Speaker 1: every every part of the stack, remembrastructure to platform to
Speaker 1: kind of the software front inside UM. So for me,
Speaker 1: you know, COVID has been an interesting thing because cloud
Speaker 1: was already moved quickly. But now everyone's working from home.
Speaker 1: You know, we're working from home now, at least on
Speaker 1: the tech company side, we might be working from home
Speaker 1: like indefinitely or at least this remote first kind of
Speaker 1: work from home virtual world. So the areas that we're seeing, um,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of movement is you know, we
Speaker 1: call it future of work, but what does that really mean.
Speaker 1: That means, you know, people that are building distributed teams,
Speaker 1: startup founders in the ecosystem today, there was this thing
Speaker 1: where you know, you might have to move to a
Speaker 1: really cool city like l a to find, you know,
Speaker 1: talent that you can hire and build your team. That's
Speaker 1: not necessarily the case right now or the future. It's
Speaker 1: kind of been like that the last few years. It's
Speaker 1: been some companies that started that way. But now you
Speaker 1: can build a team be totally distributed. Just in the stakes.
Speaker 1: You could have you know, headquarters quote unquote in l
Speaker 1: a Iron, New York, Austin. You know, there's some great
Speaker 1: tech clubs like Detroit and Atlanta that are really bubbling up.
Speaker 1: So there's a bunch of software tools that most startups
Speaker 1: need to help man, is that how do you do
Speaker 1: remote learning, remote sharing? Of course, I think we're on
Speaker 1: Zoom today, and you know, they just announced a bunch
Speaker 1: of new kind of integrations and tool sets to make
Speaker 1: you know, more of a remote office environment, UM even
Speaker 1: more effective. So we think about things like future of
Speaker 1: work with productivity tools, UM, knowledge sharing tools, even down
Speaker 1: to the back office. That's actually one area that I'm
Speaker 1: really excited about. So companies that are dealing with UM
Speaker 1: international payroll, which is a space that we've been spending
Speaker 1: a lot of time, or distributed payroll, distributed hr UM,
Speaker 1: distributed you know, accounting software. All of these things are
Speaker 1: now going from in office to in the cloud, and
Speaker 1: the whole definition of what is an office, I think
Speaker 1: is changing. The last thing I'll say on this this topic,
Speaker 1: UM knowing a couple of folks from the Afrotech team.
Speaker 1: One of the coolest things about afro Tech for me
Speaker 1: has just been as an outsider looking at the office culture.
Speaker 1: It looks like the most fun place to work UM
Speaker 1: at the African American venture capitalists. I can go weeks
Speaker 1: without you know, necessarily seeing someone else that looks like
Speaker 1: it was a remarkable place. Often if I could work
Speaker 1: out of it's probably Afro text office, but now they're remote.
Speaker 1: So how do you take such a unique culture, UM.
Speaker 1: I think it's called like wind down Wednesdays or Fridays
Speaker 1: or something something really cool like that. But how do
Speaker 1: you pull that into zoom? How do you pull that
Speaker 1: into you know, like a hopping and environment and make
Speaker 1: it cool, bring the music in, bring the culture in. Um.
Speaker 1: And I'm really excited about some of the opportunities that
Speaker 1: are coming there. It's in that respect, UM, how fast
Speaker 1: our companies growing today? You know, beat with the ability
Speaker 1: that the efficiencies that cloud computing provides. And how does
Speaker 1: COVID change that? So if you look at two years ago,
Speaker 1: how fast companies? How does that scale? Exceptional question? And
Speaker 1: you said two things that I'm going to pick on.
Speaker 1: Not only are companies able to move faster? Uh and
Speaker 1: kind of a remote first environment if you're will in
Speaker 1: the hustle, you know, I actually think it's it's kind
Speaker 1: of a unique time. UM. For underserved founders. I don't
Speaker 1: like the whole underrepresentative or minority. I think it's a
Speaker 1: it's a trash term. We're just underserved. UM. So for
Speaker 1: underserved founders, I actually you know, you can take two
Speaker 1: sides of the coin. From a funding perspective, it's always
Speaker 1: been tough for us, right um, and perhaps in a
Speaker 1: world where you can't necessarily spend time face to face
Speaker 1: teams to know people, that will be tougher. But from
Speaker 1: an operational standpoint, you can actually take a lot more
Speaker 1: meetings now. Um. You know, if I think about companies
Speaker 1: here in the Bay Area, in in l A. For example,
Speaker 1: when I used to fly into l A, I can
Speaker 1: only take three to four meetings a day because traffic
Speaker 1: was crazy. I try to stay at Vennis Panta Monica
Speaker 1: kind of a hub, but I love places like Culver City.
Speaker 1: I still love West Hollywood, and it would take me
Speaker 1: forever to get around. Now with with Zoom and more
Speaker 1: of the remote work culture, you can bang out calls
Speaker 1: from seven am to seven pm any time zone. I'm
Speaker 1: on calls at eleven pm with my team and you're
Speaker 1: been tel Aviv. I started my day at six am
Speaker 1: with my partner in Tel Aviv. We've got you know,
Speaker 1: um folks in China. Now we've got two offices in
Speaker 1: New York. So the whole idea of what your schedule
Speaker 1: looked like has changed. So typically where you are time
Speaker 1: constrained in a physical, face to face environment. All those
Speaker 1: things have moved. So again, picking on your first word
Speaker 1: of growth, I think you can you can take more
Speaker 1: business development, more potential customer pipeline meetings, and a way
Speaker 1: you could before. And then the second word that you use,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pick on his efficiency. Um, so I think
Speaker 1: everyone's business from like just a fixed cost basis has changed. Right,
Speaker 1: Like you know, you you might not need that office space.
Speaker 1: While it might be advantageous for you to have face
Speaker 1: to face time with your employees and your employee base
Speaker 1: to build that culture, maybe doing it remote is easier.
Speaker 1: People certainly aren't flying nearly as much last year. I
Speaker 1: think I logged like a hundred twenty nights and hotels.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm at zero. Well, actually I'm ethnically at like
Speaker 1: a couple. Um my wife, I took a little bit
Speaker 1: of a vacation just to get a change of scenery.
Speaker 1: But um, you know a lot of the fixed costs
Speaker 1: that are in an operation are now changed. It's not
Speaker 1: that they're gone, it's just changed. So where founders may
Speaker 1: have raised a million dollars in their seed round or um,
Speaker 1: maybe a super angel around a year ago, and you
Speaker 1: have these like fixed costs to build things out. Now
Speaker 1: if everything remote and your ability to hire and lower
Speaker 1: costs gels and cities where the talent pools are just
Speaker 1: as good or sometimes even better, you know you can
Speaker 1: pull that money out and you knows is under served founders.
Speaker 1: That's that's kind of like one of our skill sets
Speaker 1: we've always made more apt less. So I'm pretty excited
Speaker 1: about some of those prospects as well. That's a great
Speaker 1: um t up to my next question, because it was
Speaker 1: seem that because of the scale and relatively low cost
Speaker 1: of cloud computing, um in the efficiencies that it provides,
Speaker 1: it would that startups may need less to do more things. Right. Um,
Speaker 1: but is that capital just being redeployed elsewhere versus how
Speaker 1: it would have historically been deployed against those fixed costs etcetera,
Speaker 1: you know, travel or those things because the prices aren't
Speaker 1: necessarily going down. Yeah, that's a good point. Um. The
Speaker 1: way I look at it is, Uh, if you're cutting
Speaker 1: let's just say your annual budget for your startup is
Speaker 1: let's just say that salaries for a couple of people. Um,
Speaker 1: maybe you've reduced your office space or gotten rid of it.
Speaker 1: And if you've freed up just even a hundred brands
Speaker 1: out of your budget year over year in COVID versus
Speaker 1: pre COVID, there's a bunch of different things you can
Speaker 1: do with that. Um. You know, what I've really liked
Speaker 1: is the whole gig economy has always been a thing,
Speaker 1: but I think in COVID it's even different. So you
Speaker 1: can try new things on the marketing side, on the
Speaker 1: biz dev side, on the pr side, that perhaps you
Speaker 1: couldn't have done before because you either needed it in
Speaker 1: how or you know, the business has been working a
Speaker 1: certain way for a couple of years, so a smaller
Speaker 1: business couldn't have got the attention of a marketing or
Speaker 1: pr um kind of shop in the way that it
Speaker 1: can't now where everything is discerned mediated. So I think
Speaker 1: it's it's down to the business. To your comment of
Speaker 1: prices haven't come down, that's certainly the case because everyone
Speaker 1: is trying to meet their their top line revenue goals.
Speaker 1: So while prices haven't changed, the one thing I can
Speaker 1: say is negotiating terms have changed. So in this world
Speaker 1: have been certainty. There's a lot of software and cloud
Speaker 1: software tools that said hey, this is a minimum one
Speaker 1: year commitment. A lot of things have changed in COVID
Speaker 1: where they said, okay, well, everyone's business is kind of
Speaker 1: up in the air. You know, why don't we give
Speaker 1: the first three months away free, or why don't you
Speaker 1: sign up for a year, but you don't have to
Speaker 1: pay us anything for the first six months. We just
Speaker 1: want to keep you locked in UM. If you're on
Speaker 1: kind of the accounting or controller side of a business,
Speaker 1: as as some of these software licenses come up to renew,
Speaker 1: a certainly be thinking about, you know, renegotiating. I'm never
Speaker 1: gonna tell you that you know hard renegotiating and think
Speaker 1: you're gonna get fifty off. But you know a lot
Speaker 1: of companies that weren't potentially working UM with customers a
Speaker 1: year ago, and in COVID there are a lot more
Speaker 1: open to negotiating. So not just the fixed costs that
Speaker 1: have come out during COVID of of being virtual, but
Speaker 1: even though those same kind of virtual class software tools
Speaker 1: I've talked about, and you're I've been discussing, you can
Speaker 1: go back to the drawing board and say, hey, beyond
Speaker 1: just a ten or fifteent haircut until things get back
Speaker 1: to normal, maybe we can change some of the payment terms,
Speaker 1: and that's another way to kind of extend your your
Speaker 1: cat lun way. So let's think about like prices coming
Speaker 1: down from a different perspective own, because I'm not a VC,
Speaker 1: but it would appear to me that you know, buy
Speaker 1: in to get in on these deals hasn't come down
Speaker 1: either with regards to you know that capital being more
Speaker 1: flexibly UM deployed. So how how can you how do
Speaker 1: you read that? Look, we're not doing as much you
Speaker 1: know in these FI cost these travel expenses, you know, UM,
Speaker 1: but the prices of getting in on deals hasn't reduced. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's this weird macro thing that happened, and it's really
Speaker 1: a dual side of equation. So one UM, the last
Speaker 1: six to twelve months, more capital has been raised, are
Speaker 1: bigger funds have been raised than ever before UM. And
Speaker 1: then the other thing that happened on the other side
Speaker 1: of the equation is unfortunately in COVID there's a lot
Speaker 1: of businesses that were impacted, but it's super VOLADI. So
Speaker 1: what I mean by that is UM an aggregate businesses
Speaker 1: are just dealing with uncertainty. So that means there's less
Speaker 1: companies that are still either hitting plan or beating plan.
Speaker 1: So on one side, you've got more capital that needs
Speaker 1: to go into these companies than ever. On the other side,
Speaker 1: you might have it's not that like companies are failing,
Speaker 1: but you might have a smaller basket of companies that
Speaker 1: are really thriving in COVID who would be either figured
Speaker 1: it out. They might be in a market or industry
Speaker 1: vertical that's actually got a COVID tailwind versus a headwind.
Speaker 1: So there's more capital than other going after a smaller
Speaker 1: subset of opportunities. Therefore, you know, just to find demand.
Speaker 1: The prices have come up um, but look at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, like valuations, um, they're certainly meaningful
Speaker 1: in every company's like every entrepreneurs, like every term early
Speaker 1: team's life, because it has to do with delution in
Speaker 1: your own equity and what you own. What I would
Speaker 1: really be advising founders on is and this doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: change in COVID. But if some of the funds that
Speaker 1: one spend time with you pre COVID, now all of
Speaker 1: a sudden one has spend time with you, like you
Speaker 1: need to ask yourself why that is and that could
Speaker 1: be on both sides. That could be they think you're um,
Speaker 1: you know, you're seeing some COVID headwinds and now it's
Speaker 1: like a good opportunity to get in cheap or cheaper
Speaker 1: than they think it would be, or you're really seeing
Speaker 1: some tail winds and now they're all over you. I'm
Speaker 1: just like a very values based person. So the question
Speaker 1: is if they weren't spending time with you when things
Speaker 1: were good, like you know, perhaps that's not the right
Speaker 1: fit for you and your company and your your core
Speaker 1: founding team for the next two or three years. Just
Speaker 1: really try to think about that fit and we're also
Speaker 1: The last comment I'll make on this is we're going
Speaker 1: into a really unique time in this country. Has been
Speaker 1: the craziest year I think all of the experience, certainly
Speaker 1: in my adult life, and all that means is uncertainty,
Speaker 1: and every kind of CEO and sea level are co
Speaker 1: founding team is thinking about, you know, what does the
Speaker 1: next six months look like for us, and that that
Speaker 1: impacts everyone's business. So I think, you know a lot
Speaker 1: of founders are just you know, trying to stay conservatives,
Speaker 1: stay the course, but also be flexible as the next
Speaker 1: three or four months are gonna be really um follatl
Speaker 1: when it comes to change. Is it possible startups maybe
Speaker 1: taking more capital? Do they need? Oh? For sure? All right, well,
Speaker 1: actually let me I hate that I answered that so strongly.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it's a fore shore, but it's
Speaker 1: certainly proving. Um you know, I think I had written
Speaker 1: a tweet a week or two ago all caps are
Speaker 1: saying why is every company in America raising right now?
Speaker 1: And it actually is my last comment, which is why
Speaker 1: we're about to enter a period of uncertainty that we've
Speaker 1: never seen. Um So, if you're a company that's performing
Speaker 1: relatively well to plan or or even beating it, why
Speaker 1: not do it now before we enter into this kind
Speaker 1: of desert of uncertainty. Um So, I certainly understand that,
Speaker 1: but I will make sure I address your question, which is,
Speaker 1: do I think companies are raising too much money? I
Speaker 1: think some companies certainly are. Um there's this mentality um
Speaker 1: and and just kind of a behavioral norm that happens
Speaker 1: when you raise enough capital to have twelve to maybe
Speaker 1: eighteen months of cushion and you can just crank that
Speaker 1: business out. You're thinking about efficiencies, You're always thinking about
Speaker 1: your balance and your bottom line. Where sometimes if you
Speaker 1: raise so much capital ahead of plan, you know, not
Speaker 1: only are you sitting there thinking that what am I
Speaker 1: gonna do with all this extra money I raised, but
Speaker 1: your investors are also thinking, well, look the I R
Speaker 1: our clock is still ticking on my money that I
Speaker 1: gave you. I need to generate a return faster. So
Speaker 1: now we we start adding onto fits and variable costs
Speaker 1: at a rate that wasn't necessarily the original plan. Right.
Speaker 1: And then you know the term that I always uses.
Speaker 1: I never want to put a founder or an executive
Speaker 1: team in a position and of doing unnatural things. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, an expel plan is just numbers and excel.
Speaker 1: But if your balance sheet is now boosted to a
Speaker 1: point where you know it doesn't reflect the plan, now
Speaker 1: now everyone feels it's pressured to change, and that's not
Speaker 1: good for either side. Or be black meals seeing people
Speaker 1: of other ethnicities and backgrounds realize the value of our sauce.
Speaker 1: They capitalize what we create, they monetize the culture we
Speaker 1: move as a creative I'm interested in the take of
Speaker 1: a VC like Elliott on how we as the global
Speaker 1: leaders and was Hadden music, fashion, food, sports and more
Speaker 1: might finally be able to realize the reward in the
Speaker 1: marketplace for the ideas that we bring to the table.
Speaker 1: Elliot Robinson speaks on it. So I'm gonna take a
Speaker 1: thirty thousand feet and then probably go down to like
Speaker 1: ten thousand maybe and on the street level, UM, I
Speaker 1: think thirty thousand feet view. UM. What I'm really excited
Speaker 1: by is the growing number of enterprise software and cloud
Speaker 1: software opportunities that I'm seeing founded by UM, not just
Speaker 1: black founderis, but UM latin X founders and women founderis. Traditionally,
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, it actually makes a lot of sense. UM.
Speaker 1: At least the last five to ten years, a lot
Speaker 1: of the start up opportunities have been focused at UH
Speaker 1: consumer opportunities because while founders that look like me and
Speaker 1: you are underserved, you know, consumers are underserved. Right, there's
Speaker 1: this this age old adage. You know. I started my
Speaker 1: career to all black venture firm in DC called Singcom
Speaker 1: Venture Partners, and we were the first investors in bt SO,
Speaker 1: first investor in bt UM. You know, Bob Johnson says
Speaker 1: all the time that's Sincom and HERB Wilkinson exists, b
Speaker 1: T one exists, we're the only investor who served the
Speaker 1: board from first investment until it was sold to Viacom.
Speaker 1: And then you know, in the middle of that, we
Speaker 1: invested in Kathy Hughes who started Radio one in TV
Speaker 1: one all right. You know a lot of people said
Speaker 1: to us, well, there's already b t like why on
Speaker 1: earth would you invest in radio one TV one, And
Speaker 1: we said, dude, I mean, you know, we're talking about
Speaker 1: fifteen million people and you give them one channel and
Speaker 1: then we got three hundred channels serving the rest of
Speaker 1: the communities. Doesn't make any sense. UM. So you know,
Speaker 1: I think historic lee because our consumer base is seen
Speaker 1: as one very homogeneous, which it's not. There's all different
Speaker 1: types of lanes and tide of the black consumer opportunity.
Speaker 1: But because we're under served, there's just so much like
Speaker 1: clear obvious opportunity to go after the consumer market. But
Speaker 1: I think in the enterprise space, you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: like it would take a whole another zoom to really
Speaker 1: break down my views on on UM why we're just
Speaker 1: naming these opportunities and these on noors now. But I'm
Speaker 1: really excited by the diversity UM that's influencing kind of
Speaker 1: cloud and enterprise software. And that's where I as a
Speaker 1: cloud investor UM and spending my time now on the
Speaker 1: on the later stage investor. We can talk about that
Speaker 1: a little bit, but you know, I I spend a
Speaker 1: lot of time with the early side, even down to
Speaker 1: the seed team of going through all the lists of
Speaker 1: UM kind of black and brown founders going after enterprise
Speaker 1: and make sure that that vessels meeting with UM and
Speaker 1: making sure that we're we're funding. We just funded one
Speaker 1: that we haven't announced yet, which I'm really excited about
Speaker 1: coming around, but one is certainly not enough. UM. You know,
Speaker 1: we don't have a set number, but in my own mind,
Speaker 1: I've got a number of where I'd like to see
Speaker 1: the portfolio go and I'm really excited about that. On
Speaker 1: the street level, UM, you know, I just I think
Speaker 1: that we and then this is gonna I want to
Speaker 1: make this very nuanced. I think that one thing that
Speaker 1: has to change on the street level is like we
Speaker 1: as a UM underserved entrepreneur base and underrepresented investor base,
Speaker 1: we just gotta think bigger UM. And And that's like
Speaker 1: a really nuanced thing because sometimes people hear me say
Speaker 1: that and they take it the wrong way. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that we're not thinking big now. It's just that, um,
Speaker 1: many times we're just trying to get from point zero
Speaker 1: or point nega in one because the whole industry is
Speaker 1: backed against us to like getting through those first blocking
Speaker 1: and tackling, and we got to do that right, Like,
Speaker 1: we've got to focus on getting out of the blocks, um,
Speaker 1: you know, getting the business up, getting the first customers,
Speaker 1: getting the first users. But sometimes we focus so much
Speaker 1: on that that we don't think about how big of
Speaker 1: an opportunity we are, not just on the consumer side,
Speaker 1: but enterprise technology and now even on the frontier tech side.
Speaker 1: So I think on the street level, I spend a
Speaker 1: lot of my time even with early stage entrepreneurs that
Speaker 1: as a growth investor I can't invest in now. And
Speaker 1: when we're tweaking the deck, of course, the blocking and
Speaker 1: tackling has to be there. How are we going to
Speaker 1: spend the first million, how do we get the m
Speaker 1: v P of how do we get the first paying customers?
Speaker 1: But oftentimes we leave out the big picture of how
Speaker 1: big of an opportunity all of these things are for us. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I will really feel great when we're not
Speaker 1: just talking about the first um Black entrepreneurs at raised
Speaker 1: ten million dollars, but the first exit for a billion
Speaker 1: foot and it's coming. I'm just saying that sometimes you
Speaker 1: have to um speak it into existence and also reverse
Speaker 1: engineer into that success. If we say that every time
Speaker 1: we raise a million dollars, we're looking at a half
Speaker 1: billion to a billion dollar opportunity. You know, if that's
Speaker 1: letter Z and we know what letter A is, let's
Speaker 1: let's really map out the letters in between all I'm saying,
Speaker 1: and sometimes we um we underestimate how big of an
Speaker 1: opportunity all these things are. So on a street level,
Speaker 1: That's where I spend a lot of my time, particularly
Speaker 1: working with early stage founders that I'm just not positioning
Speaker 1: to invest in yet because I want to see them
Speaker 1: get there to that billion dollars, that Series B, Series C.
Speaker 1: Still thinking about that billion dollars bus opportunity. I love
Speaker 1: that we're having this conversation because you know, we don't
Speaker 1: have this conversation enough at at this high level of
Speaker 1: you know, in late stage investing, because it's so hard
Speaker 1: to get capital in the first place, and for for
Speaker 1: black founders and to that in that regard, what has
Speaker 1: to happen in our ecosystem for more black founders to
Speaker 1: get to Series A, because getting that seed is difficult.
Speaker 1: But you know they're we're out here in the in
Speaker 1: the seed stage getting the Series A and been beyond that.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's there's very few of us in that regardless.
Speaker 1: So what has to happen in the ecosystem for us
Speaker 1: to get to Series A? See more of us as
Speaker 1: Series A and get post. Yeah, it's a complex question
Speaker 1: and discussion. I mean, look, the reality is for more
Speaker 1: black founders to get to Series A, the venture capital
Speaker 1: industry has to change, like dramatically, um. And that is
Speaker 1: not an excuse for um, you know, underserved founders to
Speaker 1: not get to Serious A. But this is a conversation
Speaker 1: I have internally here at the fund and perhaps even
Speaker 1: more importantly with our l fs, so our limited partners
Speaker 1: at invest in the State. So you're saying that the
Speaker 1: the entrepreneurs are here that are capable, oh one thousand percent.
Speaker 1: I mean we're actually like this, man, Like I don't
Speaker 1: know how much time you have. It is something we
Speaker 1: gotta break down. So like, if you think about the
Speaker 1: last six months of conversation, UM, the unfortunate events of uh,
Speaker 1: you know, George Floyd and mont Augury, Brianna Taylor, it
Speaker 1: goes on has created this um uh kind of this
Speaker 1: movement of of venture capital trying to figure out like
Speaker 1: what are we doing wrong? Like why are these founders
Speaker 1: not getting fun to at levels Bestimer included quite frankly,
Speaker 1: and um, the one thing I was just writing and
Speaker 1: tweeting about this uh this week, like the black founders
Speaker 1: are the most over advised, over cohorted, over mentor and
Speaker 1: over office our folks in the world. And sometimes it's like,
Speaker 1: hey man, we just want to lose your money at
Speaker 1: the same rate all of our cockade and college capital
Speaker 1: by design is kind of a sort of our investments
Speaker 1: either go sideways or are lost. And many times those
Speaker 1: same founders that lost your money into or three years
Speaker 1: come back to the table and you give them money
Speaker 1: again because they learned. So again that doesn't that's not
Speaker 1: saying that they're not good founders, but the question is
Speaker 1: how come we're not being given that same kind of
Speaker 1: opportunity and credibility. So yes, to your point, um, the
Speaker 1: founders exist actually an overabundance. The problem is that, um,
Speaker 1: it really takes like a bit of a hearts and
Speaker 1: minds longer conversation inside of the industry to say, like,
Speaker 1: why don't we treat people equably? Right, Like, that's a
Speaker 1: conversation that has been going for a long time, but
Speaker 1: I think in it's certainly been pulled to the forefront
Speaker 1: and then taking a step back, I do think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of responsibility that goes to limited partners or
Speaker 1: what we call LPs. So just to be clear, you know,
Speaker 1: as venture um investors, we manage for the most part,
Speaker 1: other people's money, and that can behind net worth people, celebrities,
Speaker 1: family offices, but for the most part it's UM kind
Speaker 1: of state and federal government funds like pension funds. And
Speaker 1: if we just kind of focus on California, I I
Speaker 1: can I can say um with some some pleasure, I'll
Speaker 1: be it measured um that California has kind of been
Speaker 1: on the forefront in terms of diversifying the way by
Speaker 1: which they allocate those funds, but it's still kind of
Speaker 1: less than one tenth of one per cent. You know,
Speaker 1: US LP dollars goes into the hands of venture investors
Speaker 1: that look like the entrepreneurs that we're talking about, So
Speaker 1: they're just like a fundamental mismatch. However, if you think
Speaker 1: about a state like California that's super diverse, I don't
Speaker 1: know what the exact number is, but I think it's
Speaker 1: like roughly thirty two or thirty three of the pension
Speaker 1: fund dollars created to then be put in the hands
Speaker 1: of venture investors are created by black and brown people.
Speaker 1: So like it's it's weird, like Robin Hood story and reverse.
Speaker 1: Where we create the dollars, it's then allocated for private
Speaker 1: equity and venture capital then not allocated to the people that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, represent how the dollars were created, and then
Speaker 1: wealth creation is created in other communities. Like you really
Speaker 1: got to take a second and like think about how
Speaker 1: crazy that is. So it's not saying that like, oh,
Speaker 1: there are dollars because they were created off of the
Speaker 1: hours and the careers of people that look like us.
Speaker 1: But it kind of is at least that's that's the
Speaker 1: mentality and philosophy I had. So I know we veered off,
Speaker 1: but it's just to say that, you know, I I
Speaker 1: just I think that, um, not only are our entrepreneurs
Speaker 1: over mentor, but many times even our investors are over
Speaker 1: mentor and over courted. Cohorted. I'm really excited by how
Speaker 1: many new faces and backgrounds are getting into the venture
Speaker 1: capital and investment game. But what I fear again is
Speaker 1: when I look at UM, many of my colleagues who
Speaker 1: are needed industry that don't look like us, like, how
Speaker 1: can they don't have to go through all these coops,
Speaker 1: you know to get allocated dollars. A lot of these
Speaker 1: people come from non traditional backgrounds, have never invested before,
Speaker 1: maybe it invested in the firm for a year or two,
Speaker 1: and now they're off raising big funds UM, and unfortunately,
Speaker 1: we're kind of put in a box. So you know,
Speaker 1: I think I'm hoping UM turns into a bit of
Speaker 1: a paradigm shift or a watershed moment for both underserved
Speaker 1: investors of color and certainly in entrepreneurs because where you started, like,
Speaker 1: we're there in abundance. We just have to be played
Speaker 1: by an equal set of rules as the folks that
Speaker 1: don't look like Yeah, and I know the numbers like
Speaker 1: less than a hundred and it might be something like
Speaker 1: seventy five. There's seventy five black vcs who have check
Speaker 1: writing authority UM in these firms, and my friend Richard
Speaker 1: Kirby put out of numbers at those went to Harvard
Speaker 1: or Stanford, right, and so you went to more house. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: in how do you even get more black vcs in
Speaker 1: the door when a the successful vcs have previous operational experience? Um?
Speaker 1: Are they over index when previous operational experience and be
Speaker 1: many come to the table with a check? Yeah for sure. So, um,
Speaker 1: you said a bunch of things there that are really important. Um.
Speaker 1: You know when when all of the unfortunate events that
Speaker 1: we referred to happen kind of March April may beyond,
Speaker 1: it happens to us all the time. Unfortunately. UM, I
Speaker 1: saw a lot of my venture capital peers open these
Speaker 1: office hours, right, they said, like, oh, I'm gonna dedicate um,
Speaker 1: ninety minutes a week for the next six months to
Speaker 1: meet with founders of color objectively A good thing because
Speaker 1: typically like we want to make it into their calendar.
Speaker 1: So what I did, I said, Well, I talked to
Speaker 1: bounders of color all the time, right, Like, just by
Speaker 1: the nature of who I am, my networking, what I
Speaker 1: care about. The question is, you know, how can I
Speaker 1: impact the industry as one of the few black partners
Speaker 1: at a at a large venture found with check writing authority.
Speaker 1: I kind of flipped it and said, Okay, well, I'm
Speaker 1: going to do office hours ninety minutes twice a week
Speaker 1: and speak to any venture fund in the country that
Speaker 1: doesn't have a black investor to really talk through why
Speaker 1: don't you have a black investor UM and what are
Speaker 1: the benefits of having a black investor. Venture capital, by
Speaker 1: definition is about um making non consensus investments and really
Speaker 1: high performing and high potential entrepreneurs. So, you know, referencing
Speaker 1: my my dear friend Richards analysis, it's the same thing
Speaker 1: that we talked about or I talked to my partners
Speaker 1: here investment, which is if we hire another Caucasian male
Speaker 1: from Harvard and Stanford, like, what's the r O I
Speaker 1: partner with that profile? Like if we don't have those
Speaker 1: networks covered already, then we're not doing our job. So
Speaker 1: I'll say a couple of things. And this is kind
Speaker 1: of the framework of the discussion of these ninety minutes.
Speaker 1: And I think I've talked to now forty three firms,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be putting out at the end of
Speaker 1: the year kind of a medium process and slides around
Speaker 1: best practices, but I'm gonna cherry pick one thing that
Speaker 1: talk to these firms about, which is um, my entire career, uh,
Speaker 1: having interviewed with probably twenty five firms you know, at
Speaker 1: different points of my career, outreach outbound. UM, this term
Speaker 1: of like cultural fit has always been a big thing.
Speaker 1: It's actually I can't stand it. Um, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't bring this up. Yeah, I don't fit the culture
Speaker 1: of venture capital. And I guess technically most bounders that
Speaker 1: look like me and you don't fit whatever culture of
Speaker 1: their portfolio, their typical investment. So UM here a bestimer,
Speaker 1: particularly on the growth fund side. We've we've totally built
Speaker 1: in a new hirent philosophy and process and it's something
Speaker 1: I talked to all our venture peers out, which is, um,
Speaker 1: cultural fits gotta go right, that's out. Um. What I
Speaker 1: really care about is values fit and values ALIGNE not
Speaker 1: just with the founders, about my colleagues. And I think
Speaker 1: if you take a step back and you do some
Speaker 1: work to figure out, like what are the values that
Speaker 1: define a really good investor at your firm or in
Speaker 1: my case at Bessemer, that's a different conversation. And when
Speaker 1: we're hiring and when we're interviewing these people, if I'm
Speaker 1: aligning for values and I'm not talking about you know,
Speaker 1: do you wear all birds are better? Yeah? I mean
Speaker 1: all birds are attracted to you. Um I wear Jordan's
Speaker 1: to work every day. That's hey, now I can pick
Speaker 1: my foot up right now, you'd see. Yes, I just
Speaker 1: uh scored those new bladers on the sneakers atmosphere and
Speaker 1: I woke up early at seven as I've been taking
Speaker 1: l on the sneakers app By the way, you should
Speaker 1: invest in Nike and make them fix the sneakers at
Speaker 1: right if I if I would, I could. Um. So,
Speaker 1: we we eliminate cultural fit. We bring in values fit
Speaker 1: and score candidates on them, and then what we substitute
Speaker 1: in is um something we call cultural ad. That's been
Speaker 1: probably like the most um lightbulb moment for most of
Speaker 1: my close friends who work at heear firms of mind,
Speaker 1: which is like, oh shit, like we've never actually thought
Speaker 1: about that. I don't really care as a venture capitalists
Speaker 1: to go deeper into networks and patterns that we know.
Speaker 1: We talk about pattern matching, but like the way we
Speaker 1: generate outside of the urns is the pattern matching places
Speaker 1: that we aren't already. Um So we talk about cultural
Speaker 1: ad and if you really do score people on cultural
Speaker 1: AD and this goes for entrepreneurs in your portfolio as well,
Speaker 1: you really start to ask different questions. You know, what
Speaker 1: is it unique about your background? What is it about
Speaker 1: your perspective, your experience that you bring not just to
Speaker 1: the portfolio, but but um, you know, in my case,
Speaker 1: to the investment team. And I'll add into it here.
Speaker 1: So I did go to more House. Um, I'm from
Speaker 1: small town rest in Virginia. My brother went to HbCO
Speaker 1: at Hampton and both my parents were the first integrated
Speaker 1: class Advanderabile. So education is a big thing in my family.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you have to have unque traditional education
Speaker 1: to be a great startup founder. Um. But you know,
Speaker 1: I think what I bring to not just Cestimer, but
Speaker 1: any firm um that I've worked at, and probably the
Speaker 1: broader venture capital industry is just a different perspective, you know.
Speaker 1: And then on on like the the venture capital side
Speaker 1: we do, you'll hear firms talk a lot about UM
Speaker 1: learnings from the community, which is like putting functional leaders CEOs,
Speaker 1: head of sales CFOs from throughout your portfolio of you know,
Speaker 1: ten twenty in our case, over two companies together and
Speaker 1: pulling out best practices. But many times if your founder
Speaker 1: base isn't diverse, like there's an exchange of learnings and
Speaker 1: perspectives that like are just being doubt And not only
Speaker 1: does that damage UM or leave kind of opportunity on
Speaker 1: the table for underserved and underrepresented founders, but actually it
Speaker 1: leaves opportunity on the table for the folks in our
Speaker 1: portfolio where they don't get to see our perspective as operators,
Speaker 1: Like you can't tell me we we don't hustle more
Speaker 1: than anyone else. We've had to our whole lives, Like
Speaker 1: we've always been told by our parents, you've gotta be
Speaker 1: twice as good as everyone else just to get a
Speaker 1: fair shot. Um So, in terms of like we're underinvested,
Speaker 1: but we still are expected to generate the same return.
Speaker 1: There's like an exchange of learning that that even across
Speaker 1: the portfolio, UM, we don't get So the last thing
Speaker 1: I'll say on this, you know, um you mentioned that
Speaker 1: the statistics semi five percent or I'm sorry lesson semi
Speaker 1: or seventy five in total venture capitalists have stec riding authority.
Speaker 1: That is very true, and I actually think the the
Speaker 1: number might be um way smaller than seventy. Uh it's
Speaker 1: check writing authority means different things to different people, but
Speaker 1: luckily the numbers is uh slowly improved. You put up
Speaker 1: a tweet a little while ago that I thought it
Speaker 1: was amusing. But at the same time, you know, it'll
Speaker 1: make sense why it was a shame to me in
Speaker 1: a second. So you said, VC right now is basically
Speaker 1: a never ending episode of ninety day fiance. Tons of
Speaker 1: online dating, mostly people you've never met, who don't need
Speaker 1: to share much because they have multiple rings already. And
Speaker 1: while that was amusing, you know what the part of
Speaker 1: it and you're saying and you said you ended it
Speaker 1: with and hoping they pick mine. And so what I
Speaker 1: thought was unfortunate about that is when you see our
Speaker 1: counterparts are white, you know, entrepreneurs and etcetera, who may
Speaker 1: have all kinds of term sheets on the table, and
Speaker 1: they're just trying to fix you know who they like better,
Speaker 1: you know which terms they like better, etcetera. So they're
Speaker 1: interviewing you and more than you're interviewing them to give
Speaker 1: you to give them me when we come to the table,
Speaker 1: we're hoping Elliott picks us to invest in, and we
Speaker 1: have way less in in too many cases, way less
Speaker 1: um leverage to get deal terms that are good for us.
Speaker 1: And so while it was amusing, you know, I thought
Speaker 1: it was also a shame that we don't come to
Speaker 1: the table with the same you know, hutzpah as as
Speaker 1: they might. And what's your response to that? And how
Speaker 1: do we make Elliott And this is no disrespect to you,
Speaker 1: but how do we make you less the prize and
Speaker 1: the startup the prize? Yeah? Sure so. UM, what's interesting
Speaker 1: about that is, Uh, the startup that I've thought about
Speaker 1: the most, probably the last month, UM is a startup
Speaker 1: led by a dear friend of mine, you know, is
Speaker 1: an African American founder. UM. I can't talk about it
Speaker 1: just because I don't want to steal the thunder of
Speaker 1: the company. But they're out raising UM, they're Series C now,
Speaker 1: and it was that dynamic. UM. He had multiple offers
Speaker 1: on the table UM and two of them were unfortunately
Speaker 1: just kind of higher than I could go on price. UM.
Speaker 1: And like that's the worst situation actually because to your point,
Speaker 1: like that's not always the dynamic at the serious C
Speaker 1: or D stage where there's another black founder on the
Speaker 1: other side of the table. For me, I'm sitting there, like,
Speaker 1: talk to my wife about it, I talked friends about
Speaker 1: I said, what do I do here? Like the market
Speaker 1: is so crazy and the business is performing really well,
Speaker 1: and I've I've actually known this founder now for four years,
Speaker 1: talked to him off cycle. Um, you know, I hope
Speaker 1: he hears this or he'll be laughing at the same time.
Speaker 1: We're texting on the plane and I just couldn't get
Speaker 1: there on price. So I'll say this. That influences that
Speaker 1: tweet a bunch, But it also makes me really happy
Speaker 1: because if that is the dynamic for him, then I
Speaker 1: know the pipeline is coming. UM. Unfortunately, pattern matching at
Speaker 1: the Series C is very different from pattern matching at
Speaker 1: the SEE or the Series A, Like that's the unfortunate
Speaker 1: challenge at the SEA, Like, there's more data to work with.
Speaker 1: You know, there's paying customers, there's revenue there, and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, it demystifies this disconnect between UM black and
Speaker 1: brown founders and the majority of the industry which doesn't
Speaker 1: look like them. So just so so I make sure
Speaker 1: I address your questionnaire comment. I think that I think
Speaker 1: it's getting better. You know, when I when I You know,
Speaker 1: I talked to Richard Kirby a lot. He's my closest
Speaker 1: friend and adventure and oddly both of our wives went
Speaker 1: to high school together well before we ever other, So
Speaker 1: I talked to him a lot. I talked to him
Speaker 1: last night enough. Um, you know, he spends time more
Speaker 1: time in the early stage and when we do text,
Speaker 1: like we'll talk about some early stage hot deals that
Speaker 1: are led by founders of color and the dynamic is
Speaker 1: way different than it was um ten years ago. Also
Speaker 1: shout out Austin Clements at Sawston and in l A.
Speaker 1: He was tweeting about this other day, which is like
Speaker 1: back in the day, you know, particularly and underserved founders
Speaker 1: like you felt like you heard about every deal, particularly
Speaker 1: a few are black venture capitalists. We're now at a
Speaker 1: place where I don't, which is like good and bad
Speaker 1: because I want to hear about everyone. But it's also
Speaker 1: good because the industry has expanded to the point where
Speaker 1: it's not just like the same ten or fifteen or
Speaker 1: maybe even twenty folks that you talk to. It's actually
Speaker 1: more like fifty two hundred and that that bleeds over
Speaker 1: to like, you know, sports and entertainment, where they're getting
Speaker 1: into the tech game, or they've got kind of advisors
Speaker 1: and venture capitalists and angel investors that represent them, and
Speaker 1: it's kind of increased their umbrella. UM. In terms of
Speaker 1: how do we get it there? I hate to throw
Speaker 1: this answer out again, but like there's just a continuing
Speaker 1: hearts and minds come with station that has to happen
Speaker 1: really inside of the venture capital industry. UM. All in
Speaker 1: the answer here. You know, I write and speak a
Speaker 1: lot about this thing called diversity theater. UM. It's something
Speaker 1: I've written about for a really long time. You know.
Speaker 1: The statistics came out about I think it was Q
Speaker 1: three Venture funding UM. And from a diversity standpoint, there's
Speaker 1: all these like tweets going out and right and going
Speaker 1: around and mentoring and all that, but the numbers haven't
Speaker 1: shown up. What I'll say about that is it's unfortunate,
Speaker 1: but it takes some time, Like it takes time to
Speaker 1: actually connect from these office hours to getting to know
Speaker 1: your business to making the investments. Unfortunately, those decisions are
Speaker 1: made slower when it comes to us. UM. But I
Speaker 1: am you know, I have to hould that book at
Speaker 1: the next quarter. She is different, But in terms of
Speaker 1: diversity theater. Um, you know all of us have been
Speaker 1: in this place, you know, speaking personally about my venture career,
Speaker 1: and then you know, projecting some of the conversations I've
Speaker 1: had with black founders where you know pretty quickly whether
Speaker 1: someone just kind of bullshitting you on this diversity thing, right,
Speaker 1: like we're happy to meet with you, but like you
Speaker 1: didn't tell you you mentioned something around like um operating experience.
Speaker 1: I'll just put it in my example. As I was
Speaker 1: going through my career, I used to always I'm from Virginia. Right,
Speaker 1: we use this term called better rock, and that's the
Speaker 1: term is better rock. And what that means is I'll
Speaker 1: put in my own experience. When I was interviewing for
Speaker 1: venture roles throughout my career, you would show up and
Speaker 1: the job description would say you need to have x
Speaker 1: y z in order to get this job. You would
Speaker 1: have x y Z and then they throw a rock
Speaker 1: and say, go get letter D. It wasn't on the
Speaker 1: job description, but like, go get letter D. Then you
Speaker 1: go get letter D. You come back and they throw
Speaker 1: that rock and they say go get letter T. Right.
Speaker 1: And I think that happens with founders to where they
Speaker 1: you know, a venture Bungle put on the website this
Speaker 1: is what we need to see to make a seed
Speaker 1: investment or serious investment. And you're looking at your debt,
Speaker 1: you are a product some of your early tract and say, man,
Speaker 1: I've got all that, and then within fifteen minutes they're
Speaker 1: telling you you need to go find something else. That's
Speaker 1: when you should know, and that's when you don't want
Speaker 1: to go affects that rock. So we've got to we've
Speaker 1: got to get to a point as an industry where
Speaker 1: we stopped throwing that rock. And fortunately, I think the
Speaker 1: community is talking about it enough. Where as as the
Speaker 1: faces become more diverse and check writing authority, you know
Speaker 1: where to go. But there's actually some um faces and
Speaker 1: venture that don't look like us that are making these bets,
Speaker 1: treating people efitably, and we actually need to like elevate
Speaker 1: them too and and speak about them because those are
Speaker 1: the folks you want to spend the time with. Don't
Speaker 1: don't waste your time infection that rock is the answer
Speaker 1: to create our own firms. I think it's both um
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you why. And then that's a great question.
Speaker 1: So UM, as someone who's been doing this fifteen years,
Speaker 1: I started my career to all black firms. Still today
Speaker 1: the largest black interer firm in the country to ever exist.
Speaker 1: Our Fund five was a two seventy five million dollar
Speaker 1: fun um, so a huge part of the equation is
Speaker 1: certainly starting our own firms. However, until the LP community
Speaker 1: um expands the aperture, my big fear, having started my
Speaker 1: career in Series A and Series BE and seeing successes
Speaker 1: there is you know you, um, you kind of cross
Speaker 1: that chasm of a Series A, Series B founder of color,
Speaker 1: and then you show up in the series C and
Speaker 1: it's like, well, who's here to talk to you? Like
Speaker 1: who who can actually right that twenty thirty million dollar check?
Speaker 1: That world gets real spooky um. And I can say
Speaker 1: that as a dedicated effect on the investor. You know,
Speaker 1: we talked about people with check grunting authority. I can
Speaker 1: name three um black venture capitalist later stage that I
Speaker 1: know who have checked writing authority. That's like three um.
Speaker 1: So you know, it goes back to that tweet and
Speaker 1: this experience I had with my dear friend who thank
Speaker 1: thankfully he's about to announce his seriously investment or his
Speaker 1: seriously around Like you feel that pressure where it's like damn.
Speaker 1: Unlike one or three people that can write that check,
Speaker 1: I can't write all of them because like there's a
Speaker 1: larger pipeline. And thankfully for him, he got an exceptional
Speaker 1: deal and a great investor around the table. So I think, yes,
Speaker 1: it is very important that we um master our masters
Speaker 1: and determine our own faith. But unfortunately the LP community
Speaker 1: is very happy to back us at kind of this
Speaker 1: ten million to maybe forty million dollar fund size level.
Speaker 1: Now there's been a couple of breakout successes. Um. You
Speaker 1: know it kind of like fifty to level UM. So
Speaker 1: it's it's expanding, um. But for someone like myself, like
Speaker 1: my average check right now, however, somewhere between like thirty
Speaker 1: and fifty UM, And we've got to make sure that
Speaker 1: we've got people that can treat entrepreneurs effortably through the
Speaker 1: entire lifestyle. Um. Again, all the seed stuff is bubbling up,
Speaker 1: has been the last ten years, particularly the last two
Speaker 1: series as has certainly gotten better. UM. But man, it
Speaker 1: is a it is a ghost TM for me when
Speaker 1: I go to growth stage confidence. But I know it's
Speaker 1: coming right, Like if you know the investors are there
Speaker 1: in the seed in the A and they're raising their bees.
Speaker 1: I know as they come to the seed, I'm hoping
Speaker 1: that I'm uniquely positioned to see all um and hopefully
Speaker 1: support those entrepreneur business scale h Black Tech Green Money
Speaker 1: is a production of Black of the Afro Tech in
Speaker 1: the Black Effect podcast Network and I Hired Media. Was
Speaker 1: produced by Morgan Dabon and Me with Lucas, with additional
Speaker 1: production support by Sarah Ergon and Rose McLucas. Special thank
Speaker 1: you to Michael Davis if Ne's Serrano. Learn more about
Speaker 1: my guests, other technis reppers and innovatives at afro tech
Speaker 1: dot com. Enjoy your Black Tech Green Money. Share this
Speaker 1: with somebody, Go get your money. Piece of love.