1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye, 2 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as 3 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: always so much for tuning in. That's the one and 4 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: only Mr Max Williams. But he's not on a zoom call, 5 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: is he. No, you're like pointing to it like corporeally, 6 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: you know, Yes, that's right, Your your pals, your Ridiculous Historians, 7 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: Noel Brown, Max Williams, me the one they called Ben. 8 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: We are together physically in a room, and it's something 9 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: that we can all appreciate now after all those zoom 10 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: calls or Microsoft team call halls, riverside calls. Yeah, it's 11 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: kind of funny how it's become like a novelty almost, 12 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: you know, being in a room with people. But hey, 13 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: is starting to ease up and become a little more normalized. 14 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: And I love this to be a regular thing. I mean, 15 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: we got the mood lighting here, you know, we had 16 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: a vibe. We were just hanging out earlier because we're 17 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: the only people in the office. Uh. Yeah. It was 18 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: especially nice when I was recording some vo in a 19 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: separate studio and Ben just kicked in the door, like Max, 20 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: that needs you right now. Yeah, Yeah, I hope that 21 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: makes it into the ephemeral episode you're working on. Were 22 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,839 Speaker 1: you hulking out, Ben? That's my secret, knowl I'm always 23 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: kind of hulking out. We have a oh man, so 24 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: spoiler alert. We're all excited here because we have a 25 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: long weekend coming up. We're recording on a Friday. The 26 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: reason we have a long weekend is because we get 27 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: the day off for President's Day. Yeah, and I sort 28 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: of like did a little like, is that is it 29 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: George Washington's birthday? Is that what President's Day is? Between 30 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln and George Washington? I believe, I believe, or 31 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: maybe there's a third one also, but I know it's 32 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: like a date between all theirs. I don't think it's 33 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: anyone's birthday, and particular which one was the one that 34 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: definitely didn't cut down the cherry tree. Uh and probably 35 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: did at some point deceive or lie to people. But 36 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: I thought President's Day was officially George Washington's birthday. I 37 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: thought so too, But what do I know? Well, you know, 38 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: happy birthday George if you're here in this, uh, if 39 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: you're hearing this later, uh. Today we are going to 40 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: talk about something that is near and dear to my 41 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: heart at least I suspect all three of us. And 42 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: that is New York's Chinatown. It's a really cool place 43 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: Mulberry Street, you know. I mean there's a really cool 44 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: divide between Chinatown and like little Italy. That's interesting how 45 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: they can kind of coexist. But man, you can get 46 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: some really great, cheap, incredible food in Chinatown. You also 47 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: get some really prizy food in Chinatown. But like there's 48 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: I wish I could remember the name of the place. 49 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: There's a place in particular that I just love. It's 50 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: like absurdly but it's this like northern Chinese cuisine, I believe, 51 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: where the noodles lamb and the noodles are all very long. 52 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: There's no separation. It's just like one big giant noodle. 53 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: You know. You have to kind of like cut it 54 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: with your teeth. Uh a k to it. I guess, yeah, 55 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: masticate if you want to sound fancy. Yeah, I was, 56 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: you know, I was telling you guys, I was just 57 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: in New York recently for Lunar New Year, and I 58 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: was all over China Town. They're probably sick of me 59 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: by this point, isn't that what they do the thing 60 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,679 Speaker 1: with like the dragons and stuff, and they bang the 61 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: pots and pans. They're all kinds of cool celebrations. Yeah, 62 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: but this the Chinatown that you will see today if 63 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: you travel to the Chinatown in Manhattan. It's come a 64 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: long way. It's it's very different, uh, in comparison to 65 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: the earlier China Town, but it still maintains a really 66 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: cool cultural identity, you know. I mean there's all these 67 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: like very interesting, authentic little hole in the wall spots 68 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: that you can check out. There's obviously lots of legacy 69 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: kind of grandfathered businesses that probably wouldn't exist if they 70 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: did have rent control or like owned the buildings from 71 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: like generations back. You know, that's one thing that's neat 72 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: about New York. It's still parts of it maintain that 73 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: very authentic cultural atmosphere. And this, Oh I love these 74 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: said that because this goes into one of the key 75 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: parts of today's story, the idea of authenticity versus performance. So, uh, 76 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: this is a true story, folks, and it may be um, 77 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: you know, you may be offended when you hear it. 78 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,239 Speaker 1: We certainly were not impressed with some of the people 79 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: in this story. But travel back with us to the 80 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: early twentieth century. And let's say you are You've got 81 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: some friends or family coming in from out of town, 82 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: and you're doing pretty well. You're up middle class, you know, 83 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: like your your brother, your sister and their families coming 84 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, you know, we're in New York. 85 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: What do we what should we do for fun? And 86 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: you're like, I have an idea. Let's go see how 87 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: the other half live. Let's go watch poor people for fun. 88 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: That's the real thing. I don't know if anyone's I mean, 89 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: I've I've heard this term for years and and and 90 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: like many terms like this, you sometimes don't even think 91 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: to question the atomology of it. But the term slumming 92 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: turns out it has a very rich, problematic past. Um. 93 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: You know, when people say, are you you're slumming sort 94 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: of implies that you're hanging out beneath your station or 95 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: something like for a lark kind of that's exactly what 96 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: it means. And it turns out that the idea of 97 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: slumming started with something called slum tourism, which it feels 98 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: kind of inhumane, doesn't it. And your your spot on 99 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: if you go to the Oxford English Dictionary. You'll see 100 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: that slumming was added to the big canonical list of 101 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: spoken English in the eighteen sixties. And it means just 102 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: what you describe nol to go into or frequent slums 103 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: for discredible purposes, to saunter about with a suspicion perhaps 104 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: of it. Moor pursuits, sure, and that. Yeah, but we're 105 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: talking about today, isn't even more weirdly sanitized version of that. 106 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: Not You're not necessarily seeking the true immoral pursuits. You're 107 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: just hoping to catch a glimpse of it. You know. 108 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: Again for like your own amusements, hills and thrills. At 109 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: the next cocktails sware you can say, you know, rutherfood 110 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: and I actually did go to China Tao and there 111 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: was a bit of violence about a bit of a 112 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: Malay We so we consider ours somewhat authorities. But yeah, 113 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: this idea was not nor uh not originally us creation. 114 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: It came from well to do people in London who 115 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: since the eighteen forties were like, do you know what 116 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: we should do? We should go see those rapscallions ned 117 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: Wells at the East End. What a lock, What a 118 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 1: lock it would be? Got to do the love the 119 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: upper class titters what I call that there it is. 120 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: I love that. I like picturing that character is in 121 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: all these scenes. It's just changeable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It 122 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: does become kind of a case of parallel thinking, though, 123 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: because the the practical knowledge here is not necessarily that 124 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: New Yorkers were copying what was going on in London. 125 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: It's just sort of like a weird, gross facet of 126 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: human nature to want to do weird stuff like this, right, yeah, 127 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: And was this good for the people who actually did 128 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: have to live in these slums, you know, and spend 129 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: their days they're working well? Unfortunately, according to multiple articles 130 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: for everything from Atlas Obscurity to the National Geographic and 131 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: The New York Times, apparently it didn't help them out 132 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: a lot. Like maybe someone would say, I was so 133 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: moved by how bad things looked in the tenements that 134 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: I think I can lobby my political friends to do 135 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: something about it. But um, and there were also things Okay, 136 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: I'm going somewhere with this. You remember how during the 137 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: Pen Dimmock there was this big stink when a bunch 138 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,679 Speaker 1: of celebrities made a video I think they were singing. 139 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: It was like a weird of the world. Yeah, there's 140 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: Believe and Uh talking about how difficult it was to 141 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: live in their mansions during the pandemic and every must 142 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: be so hard for you, right right, poor poor guy. 143 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: As well intentioned as that was, a lot of people 144 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: found it offensive because they said, you know, we're out 145 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: of work. I know someone who died. Your little Instagram 146 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: video is not helping in danger of being ejected from 147 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: my apartment. Exactly, exactly, dude. So there there was something 148 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: similar that happened with some of these slum tourism initiatives. 149 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: There were flower charities, so people would go to these 150 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,239 Speaker 1: really poor parts of town and they would give flowers 151 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: two people who had terrible lives. Maybe like give the 152 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: money instead, or like food or something. What are they 153 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: gonna do with the flowers? Yeah, give the give them 154 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: access to healthcare and education. It's the show we care. 155 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: The Times said, what a pleasure it must be to 156 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: a sufferer in prison to one of these tenements to 157 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: receive a flower with its color and its green leaves 158 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: and stimm Are they being serious or are they being ironic? 159 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: They can't really tell. I hope ironic, but I think serious. Yeah. Also, guys, 160 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: I want to jump back in. I said, believe it's 161 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: actually imagine, but I don't know. Those kind of sound 162 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: the same to me. Imagine believe potato clamato exactly. Just 163 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: so so the American version. I like what you said 164 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:41,239 Speaker 1: about parallel thinking, because the American version probably started in Manhattan, 165 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: and we found uh, we found you guys quoted pretty 166 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: often in this professor Chad Heap, who was an American 167 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: studies professor at George Washington University. He says it's not 168 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: clear that New Yorkers were copying things they read about 169 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: or heard about from London. While slummy manifested itself across 170 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: the American landscape, New York and Chicago were the pre 171 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: eminent places if you want to go. It's like if 172 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: you want to go gamble in the US, you want 173 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: to go to Vegas. Do you want to do some 174 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: slum tourism, You're going to the Big Apple or Chicago. Yeah. 175 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: I love this guy's named Chad Heap. What it was 176 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: a great name for someone exploring you know the heap, 177 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: you know, the trash heap of human civilization, I mean 178 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: nominative determinism. Indeed, he wrote a book called Slumming, Sexual 179 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: and racial encounters in American nightlife. Eight. We'll get to 180 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 1: the kind of silver lining of all this, how it 181 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: did in some small way open up kind of more 182 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: progressive thinking around other cultures and you know, the idea 183 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,719 Speaker 1: of people less fortunate or whatever. And also again, like 184 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: a lot of these people that were living in these 185 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: slums were disenfranchised, not only because of their race, because 186 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: of sexuality. You know, there were a lot of gay 187 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: folks that were not allowed to exist within politesisty, and 188 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 1: they were sort of relegated to these fringes and kind 189 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: of became oh, look, mommy are gay, you know, wow? Yeah, 190 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: like that there would be other exoticized, but they were 191 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: still wildly marginalized and disenfranchised. You shouldn't treat people like 192 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: zoo exhibits. Nope, I don't think that's a hot take, yea. 193 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: And this also goes hand in hand with another episode 194 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: we did quite a while back about just generally this 195 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 1: weird racist and exoticization of Chinatown and Chinese people in 196 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: New York and the idea of these chop suey houses 197 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: that became kind of these Americanized, sanitized versions of like 198 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: real Chinese cuisine. Um, it was a way to make money, 199 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,479 Speaker 1: but it was also a way to like make it palatable, 200 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 1: you know for Americans in not a pandery way, but 201 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 1: in like this is what it's going to take for 202 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: us to like survive and make money. And um, it's 203 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: very very interesting. That's it's a good episode, I think 204 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: if you want to go back and check that out. 205 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: It gives a little more um contact to some of 206 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: the things we're gonna talk about today. Yeah, yeah, you're right, 207 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: and they're not entirely pleasant, but they are stories that 208 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: do need to be told. So you can see the 209 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 1: popularity of slum tourism. You can study it in the 210 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: media of the day, like newspapers such as The New 211 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: York Times would love to talk about how this was 212 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: a fashionable London mania and slumming parties. We're going to 213 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: be the rage in winter in New York like a 214 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: like a tour, like a guided tour. Oh let's watch 215 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 1: them freeze, shall we. It's like it's terrible. Oh no, 216 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: it's fine. We're giving everyone a flower. So if you 217 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: stitch enough of them together you can make a blanket. Yes, terrible. 218 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: So the neighborhood, So what neighborhoods would they go to 219 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: Lower Side was a big one. Yeah, Loris Side tenements 220 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: also Harlem and also for our purposes today in a town. 221 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: And the weirdest thing is, imagine this. If you've ever 222 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: lived in an apartment, imagine if someone busted into your 223 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: house and then looked around and told you you were 224 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 1: an inspiration and they left the flower and then just 225 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: beat me. Here Max fucked off. You can't press charges. 226 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 1: These are well to do people in the city. You know, 227 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: what are what are you gonna Historically people who are 228 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: financially disadvantaged get not the best treatment from police. No um. 229 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: And then to be verily, anyone was kicking down any doors. 230 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: I think it was more like peeking in windows and 231 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: things like that. They were creepy, but maybe not quite 232 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,599 Speaker 1: as extremely as just same. But here's the kicker. It 233 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: became a known thing that this was very popular and 234 00:13:50,000 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: people were expecting a certain kind of experience, right, they 235 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 1: would not be happy if they didn't see, you know, 236 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: a crime being committed, or like a sex worker being 237 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: menaced by some sort of bemp you know, like, so 238 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,599 Speaker 1: what happens? Yeah, Like imagine I go back to that 239 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: that horrible zoo comparison conservation wildlife thing, Like imagine you're 240 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: on one of those trips or you're like on a 241 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: whale watching thing, and then you say, this is malarkey. 242 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: I can't believe I spent all afternoon in Harlem and 243 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: I didn't see one crime. I want my money back. 244 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: So these these scenarios started to become staged. Yes they 245 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: did to an alarmingly theatrical degree. Yes. Yeah, a lot 246 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: of what people saw was really like day in the 247 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: life of people who lived in these areas. But some 248 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: residents saw an opportunity and that this cottage industry arose 249 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: where they said, hey, we're gonna make sure we keep 250 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: people here, keep them interested, and that they keep spending money. Uh. 251 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: A lot of people were unethical in this whole industry, 252 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: Like I think we should mention part of what like 253 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: one of the grips that slum tourists would do as 254 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: they pretend to be charity workers and not actually help 255 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: people anyway. This is the interesting part. They were like, Okay, 256 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: these rich, very out of touch folks want to see scandal, 257 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: they want to see something that reinforces the rampant sexual 258 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: and racial stereotypes. Well, and they're already coming into our 259 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: little bubble. I mean, let's let's not forget these areas 260 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: rose up out of necessity because these people were marginalized 261 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: and treated very poorly, so they kind of had to 262 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: band together and create their own. You know, society is 263 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: kind of like within the larger society. So to have 264 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: all these outsiders just kind of trapesing through willy nilly 265 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: and gawking, uh is offensive, patently offensive. So you know, 266 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: why not take advantage of it and make a buck? Yeah, 267 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: And the way you would make a buck is to 268 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: open a authentic bar or restaurant, and it would stay 269 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: open way later than it would if it were just 270 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: for normal people in neighborhood. They've got to get up early, 271 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: go to work, so things are going to close around 272 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: dinner time, right, or people are going to eat at 273 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: home because you can't afford a ton of stuff in restaurants, 274 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: so they made these fake authentic things. And and Dr Heap, 275 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: Professor Heap says a lot of these, especially in Chinatown, 276 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: weren't even really owned by Chinese Americans or Chinese immigrants. 277 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: That's right. And again we we mentioned the very close 278 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: proximity of Little Italy to Chinatown, so there was you know, 279 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: money to be made from folks that were in that 280 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: adjacent community. So yeah, these chop suey houses that were 281 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: kind of it's I think he is who described it 282 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: as bastardized Cantonese cooking. You know, it was something that 283 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: really catered to these sort of you know, maybe so 284 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: what adventurous eaters, but also wasn't nearly the real deal 285 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: as far as like what actual Cantonese cooking would have been. Um, 286 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: it was palatable enough for them to try it, and 287 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: it actually became wildly popular. We talked, we talked about 288 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: that in the other episode more than we will today. 289 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: But it's spread, you know, like wildfire. Um. But exactly 290 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: in the same way that a lot of Americanized Chinese 291 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: joints today aren't authentic at all. And a lot of 292 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: those dishes, like I believe, like General so Chicken very 293 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: much in American creation, in the same way that a 294 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: lot of Indian dishes in the UK are very much um, 295 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: English creations, right right. Yeah, there are fantastic videos you 296 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: can watch. I think there's still up on YouTube of 297 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: people who actually are from China or grew up in China. 298 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: Trying American Chinese food for the first time. And it's 299 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: not to say they automatically hated or anything. They're just like, 300 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: what is this supposed to be? It reminds me of 301 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: the character that Eugene Levy plays in Believe It's No, 302 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: It's the Best Show. Now he's a travel agent, but 303 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: he's never left the country. Yeah, I think he's waiting 304 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: for guff member. They're at dinner and he's like, you know, 305 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: I went to China and the food there it's just 306 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,360 Speaker 1: not as good. They don't make a sauce as as 307 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: as sweet and tangy as they do over here. Exactly. 308 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: That's exactly what happened. And so these slummers, when I 309 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: say slummers, we're talking about the slum tourists. They would 310 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: get fixers or guides, or they would join organized groups 311 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: slump Yeah, the exactly unfortunately, yes, uh. And these fixers, 312 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: these guides would have the would already have a plan 313 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: or an itinerary, and they would take them to like 314 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: the specialty restaurants. They also took them to bars and 315 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: brothels that were especially for slumbers. They were accustomed to 316 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: receiving that type of clientele because you know, let's let's 317 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: get into like opium dens. You know, that was very 318 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: much a thing. They were these particular types of bar 319 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: kind of situations where people were smoking opium. But you 320 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't if you're proprietor of a place like that. You 321 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: don't want some lookie lou popping in just to like 322 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: gaulk it. You know, these like opium addicts that are 323 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: all like passed out on the floor. You would be 324 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: resentful of that, especially if they weren't like dropping down 325 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: some cash to like, you know, get stoned out of 326 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: their gourds exactly. And out of towners could get duped 327 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: or ripped off with this. There's a quote from James 328 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: Clarence Harvey in nineteen o five. He was a poet 329 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: and he said slumming usually means paying a price to 330 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: see others do things you wouldn't do yourself for the world, 331 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: and which perhaps they wouldn't do except for the price 332 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: you pay. So that's from that outlice obscure article, I 333 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: think slumming Chinatown, New York history and fake opium dens, 334 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: you know, and also let's not forget if you were 335 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: really truly experiencing you know, the real deal and you 336 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: were like one of these rich people, you would be 337 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: a tar get, you'd be a mark. So you needed 338 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: to work in, you know, groups that would ensure your 339 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: safety in the same way like when you go on 340 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,959 Speaker 1: a safari in Africa, you you're you're behind some glass 341 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: and like a jeep, you know, like and then people 342 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: are like making sure that you're not going to get 343 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: mauled by a lion. The same is true here because 344 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: you don't have experience on the Savanta. That's the whole point. 345 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 1: You know, you're inexperienced and like very green, and someone's 346 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: kind of giving you the tour because they know a 347 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: what you want to see. They want to give you 348 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: that authentic experience that you're paying for and be they 349 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: want to make sure that you don't get murdered or 350 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: mug so that you can pay bad for business. He 351 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: gets to get a rap if like, oh, this slum 352 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: tourist like people you know, several people they went in 353 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: and they never came out, you know. Yeah. And one 354 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: of the big things, one of the breakout stars of 355 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: these visits, in this faux lifestyle that was being portrayed 356 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: to people was the idea of the opium dead, and 357 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: the opium didn't as a concept was sold to the 358 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: slum tourists as though it were the central focus of 359 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: life for Chinese immigrants and Chinese Americans in New York. 360 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: Would be like, everybody hangs out at the opium den, 361 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: That's where you get the real slice of life, which 362 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: was patently untrue because you know who hangs out at 363 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: opium Den's people who sell or consume opium. That's why 364 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: it's in the name. They're not like, I'm not an 365 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: opium guy, but the Fanta here is top notch. No. 366 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: It also didn't have fanta back. I don't think fanta 367 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: wasn't that like a World War Two inventions because it 368 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: was like the version of coke that they could make 369 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: in Germany using apple scraps. It wasn't even originally like 370 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: an orange drink. And we've talked about that. Yeah, I don't. 371 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: I do want to chime in. There are some people 372 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: in this world who will get offended if you call 373 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: it fanta. They say it is fonta fonta wanna fanta, 374 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: don't you wanna? I guess it's not. Whena Fanta somewhere 375 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: in the Upper Midwest, Hey, you when a fanta. Yeah, yeah, 376 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: a little bit farther north than where I'm from. Yeah, 377 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: that's it's problem. So it's like, whanna pop Phantom? Yeah exactly, 378 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: so good, save good, save bats. And so this opium thing, 379 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: the opium den image, um, it takes off. And there 380 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: was one fake opium den that got very, very popular. 381 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: It was owned by a guy named Chuck Connors. He 382 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: called himself the Mayor of Chinatown. He was not the Mayor. Nope. 383 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: Usually when people give themselves titles like that, there's some 384 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 1: weird megalomania playing there unless they're unless they're Emperor Norton. 385 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: First of his name. That I was cool. I was cool. 386 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: I think we all want to hang out with him. 387 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, So this guy would take out celebrities 388 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: and titans of industry and show them around. They have 389 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: slum tourism. And he was famous because he wrote a 390 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: book called Bowery Life where he talks about I don't know, 391 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 1: it's like talking about this fantasy of of a life 392 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: that he probably didn't really live. And he took his 393 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: when he took his tours to his tour groups, he 394 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: would take them first to a restaurant and then he 395 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: would take them to the Chinese theater. Then he would 396 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: take him to a temple on Mott Street and uh, 397 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 1: then he would take them to what the tourists thought 398 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: was an opium den, and they would see these people 399 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: of Chinese lineage hanging out, look frankly looking really hot, right, 400 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it's right, But it was all an elaborate ruse, 401 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: you know. I mean these were actors lazing around looking 402 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: like they were absolutely stoned out of their minds. But 403 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: it was all just a total put on, exactly, And 404 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: I love that you had pointed this out earlier. Think 405 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: about it, and opium dead, go into a real opium den, 406 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: like hello, I just want to see how everybody lives. 407 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: And I've got some flowers for a few of you. 408 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: It's that's where y'all smoke at the opium exactly, and 409 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: that's there are real opium didn't But if people just 410 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: showed up there and they weren't smoking, why would they 411 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: be allowed at all? You know what I mean? So 412 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: everyone again, they would be treated as a mark exactly. 413 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: If they really were to saunt to wander into one 414 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: of these places, they would either not be allowed in 415 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: because it's clear what someone is like, you know, either 416 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: you know the look of someone who's really got the 417 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: itch and wants to get stoned on opium, chase the dragon. 418 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: That's a very particular clientele. And if you're like some 419 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: well scrubbed, you know, upper cruster, chances are they don't 420 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: even want you to know about this place. You know, 421 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: chances are you'd go back and tell one of your 422 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: friends and the police about it, and then you'd get raided. Yeah, 423 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: go back to Central Park, geez buddy, Yeah, that's okay. 424 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: Just to give you a sense of how extreme this is, 425 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: there was one case of a Chinese actor who would 426 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: play it would play somebody really strung out on opium, 427 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: and they would take advantage of the the old racist 428 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: like yellow peril belief that that was you We mentioned 429 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: this now earlier, the idea that these folks were like 430 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: over sexed or something. Um, you know, the Chinese women 431 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: were like, you know, promiscuous and all of this, and 432 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: they were only you know, good for being sex workers. 433 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: Just all of this crazy racist and sexist and misogynist 434 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: way of thinking. Yeah, like, oh, if you're it isn't 435 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: pure is driven snow white daughters beginning smoking opium they'll 436 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: be taken, you know. Uh. And so this guy who 437 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: was he was always seen with a white woman who 438 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: was also really high, and they were like to hanging 439 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 1: out together high on opium. But not only were they pretending, 440 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: but they were also married. There was their job. Can 441 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: you imagine. Okay, everybody's listen to this and thinking of 442 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: their spouse or their loved wood. We already know it 443 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 1: can be tough to work with people that you're in 444 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: a relationship with, Right, what if you did that every day? 445 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: Would that be awesome or would it be like I 446 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: don't know, I could see it being passing to me. 447 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: It reminds me of like, you know, going into a 448 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: haunted house. Right. You know, people that circulate through they 449 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: see the same thing over and over again because they're 450 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: like cues. Right, and these this couple that you're talking about, 451 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: they would repeat this bit over and over and over 452 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 1: again for the new look you lose. They were coming through. 453 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: I like, look you lose. I don't know, keep saying that, 454 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: but it's fun to say. But it was. It was 455 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: an act, you know, It was very much like they 456 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: were um part of this production, you know. Yeah, and 457 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: then so people buy this overwhelmingly by the way, like 458 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: the Slums wrestling. But but people weren't wise to the 459 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 1: fact that it was an act yet, whoa, we can't 460 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: break kfebe. That's something Jonathan Strickland would say, I don't know, 461 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: abe oh man, the same as Kay fed off air 462 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: just because sex thing. No, no, no, it's um. It's 463 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: the idea that, no matter what, wrestling must present itself 464 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,120 Speaker 1: as being authentic. Yeah, it's just like you know, it's 465 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: it's obviously scripted. You know how it's going to end, 466 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: but how you get there is up to the actors 467 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: and the fighters. Well, and that adds an air of 468 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: authenticity to it. And I'm sure there was some yes 469 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: ending going on with these these actors too, honestly, probably 470 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 1: just to make it less boring for them, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, 471 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: it's like a dinner theater improv. Oh great, they actually 472 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: went to an improv theater disguise, or it's like the 473 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: way they do Curb your enthusiasm, for example, where they 474 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 1: have these sketches of you know what the end result 475 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: of the scene needs to be, but how you get 476 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: there is what makes it feel authentic and um, spontaneous. Yeah, 477 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: and when you know that it makes curb your enthusias 478 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: as I'm worth of rewatch. I had suspected for I 479 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: had suspected when the first few seasons came out. It's like, 480 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: are they improvising? Um? That was just amazed. Now when 481 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: I watched him and these guys are really good, I 482 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: want to do stuff with him. You got to have 483 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: the right people, though, to really pull that off. You know, 484 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: who can like play off of each other and keep 485 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: the momentum going, you know which the three of us, 486 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: I think we would be a fun improv group. I 487 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: would add some other folks. Yeah, I want like I 488 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: you know, I'm about every year or so, there will 489 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 1: be a period where it's usually in the lead up 490 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: to August, where I will try to convince nol and 491 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: my good buddy are good buddy Matt Frederick too as 492 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: a birthday present, because we all have August birthdays back. 493 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: So I don't know if you know that as a 494 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: birthday present, always try to convince them to do some 495 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: improv classes with me. And now you're going to be 496 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: on that list too. I don't think anybody will say yes. 497 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: For the record, it's just a ritual for me to 498 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: ask no. I mean, I'm gonna say no right now. 499 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: If you're gonna say no right now, that's not how 500 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: you yes, and you're back to being my missis again. Max. 501 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: Let's see how long did it lasts this time? Boy? 502 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: I can't stay mad at you. I know we do 503 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: this every day. But the here's the thing. The show 504 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: doesn't stop there. So people are saying, oh, wow, look 505 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: at that. Opium is a real problem, you know uh, 506 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: And then there were probably a lot of people were 507 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: going there to double down on their existing stereotypes or 508 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: prejudicial beliefs. So they would say, the threat of miss 509 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: engineation is real and it's due to opium. But the 510 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: show is not over yet a word, right, Isn't that 511 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: like mixing of races? I mean that's a loaded, awful 512 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: gross term. Yes, yet it very much is um. So 513 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: they would leave and then say that's crazy, my first 514 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: opium dead. And then a fight might break out on 515 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: the street outside of the opium dead and it's like 516 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: a real barn stormer of a fight. But it's like 517 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: wrestling rules. It's like stomping and punching in the air, 518 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like you have to 519 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 1: have some like stage fighting chops to pull this stuff 520 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: off and have it be believable because these people are 521 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: yeah know they're a little clueless, but they're they're gonna 522 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: know if it's totally funny, it has to have that 523 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: air of realism. It's like the chair explodes when it 524 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: hits somebody, but if you look at it really closely, 525 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: it's like half a second before it explodes. But you 526 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: can't just like you know, like like not hit the 527 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: person with the chair. It takes serious skills and timing 528 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: to be able to pull this kind of stuff off. 529 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: That is true. You know, we are not this is 530 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: not a tangential ding on. Wrestlers were not disguising wrestlers 531 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: smear piece because they're hard work and they they're working 532 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: hard and they can get injured, seriously injured. Why do 533 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: you think so many wrestlers go on to become quite 534 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: solid screen actor seen as excellent Peacemakers do that opening 535 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: title sequence one of the best ever. It's like, if 536 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: you guys haven't seen it, you just watch the title sequence. 537 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: It will it will pull you in. It's like an 538 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: incredibly choreographed dance number with all of the main characters 539 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: in the show, and it is just a delight. Have 540 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: you seen Peacemaker? Watch the opening time, the opening it's 541 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: the Olympics. I'll have been watching curling like all the time. 542 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: The curling that have to do with like Greek mythology, 543 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: I don't understand. Uh, it is based on the work 544 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: curling hair Timothy Oliphant sweep the ice. So yeah, so 545 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: before we get curled out of this show, there's a fight. 546 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: You walk out, you've just seen your first opium dead 547 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: if you may have visited what you thought was a 548 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: brothel and a legit, you know, saloon, and then all 549 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: of a sudden, right weirdly enough, right as your group 550 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: walks out, some other person on the streets exactly exactly, 551 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: and you might see a standoff, you know between these 552 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: two gangs, and people had a lot of there's a 553 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: big fear culture because the newspaper Tabay's love to report 554 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: on like tong wars and gang fights and which was 555 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: a thing. I mean that there was real, you know, 556 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, we're talking about also like uh in 557 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: the era of the like the gangs of New York 558 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: and stuff. You know that you know, the five points 559 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: and all of that. That was another area that was 560 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: popular for slum tourists. Yes, yes, yes it is, and 561 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: or yes it was, thankfully, and so people treated it 562 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: like wrestling. They would actually get kind of mad. I'm 563 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: sure it's just I love the hunted House example. I'm 564 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: sure it's one of those things where, um, you know, 565 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: let's say a couple goes out on this just terrible 566 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: date and the girl is saying, I can't believe it. 567 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: I thought we will was going to get robbed. You 568 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,719 Speaker 1: gotta wonder if there's a premium version of this too, 569 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: where they get to like have some participatory quality. The 570 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: man gets to save the damsel from some would be 571 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: mugger and make it makes him feel like a big man, 572 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: you know, and little does he know that it was 573 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,719 Speaker 1: all phony, you know, right, And it could have been 574 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: something as simple as you walk out and all of 575 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: a sudden you hear somebody screaming like uh, and then 576 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: someone's running after them with a hatchet and there'd be gunshots, 577 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: and you gotta wonder where they use in blanks, you know, 578 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: like what how how far did this uh subterfuge extend? 579 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: You know, we don't fully know, And there were obviously 580 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: probably different groups that were better at it than others, 581 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: you know, they were the real premium ones. Like, how 582 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: come is it that if you hire this one slum 583 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: tour group, you always get to see the craziest stuff happening, 584 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: and the other ones maybe a little more low key? Right, Yeah, 585 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: you gotta go with Fast, Dady. I've never seen I've 586 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: never hung out with Fast day and not seen a 587 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: gang fight. Like that's what they would recommend. And now 588 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: the question becomes like people would leave disappointed if they 589 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: didn't see these fights. Their expectations were there, But now 590 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: the question becomes, no, next, where any of these people 591 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: in actual danger? No? I don't think so. I mean 592 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: that's the whole point right there. There was a level 593 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: of like separation and protection that these people were getting, 594 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: whether they knew it or not. And I think part 595 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: of that has to do with the inherent naivety of 596 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: thinking that you can just go into this leg world, 597 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: this underworld and not be in danger. You know, they 598 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: were just so clueless and disconnected that they didn't even 599 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: realize that. Like, dude, if this is real, you probably 600 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: would have been killed six times over, you know, I 601 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: mean how often? I mean, were there people going on 602 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: these things that were like, okay, this is ben stage, 603 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: this is I think some probably would be okay with that. 604 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 1: Even had a Futurama scene where it's like early Futurama 605 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: where they're going, you know, to New York of yesteryear 606 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: and fries are like, oh, that's great, and this guy 607 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 1: comes up to them and he's like, hey, give me 608 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: your wall, and it's like oh yeah, it's like I'm 609 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: getting mugged. And the guy takes the wall and his 610 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: runs off. Oh I actually got mugged. Yeah, yeah, I 611 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: think that probably happened, um because people were so disassociated 612 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: from the realities of life in these communities. Wh ask yourself, 613 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: why are why isn't this happening today? Well, the craze 614 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: did eventually die out San Francisco. I can't believe they 615 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: had to make this law. San Francisco band mockery of 616 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: the poor and they're like, all right, look, you have 617 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: to be human at some point. And when The New 618 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: York Times reported it, they didn't talk about like how 619 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: worthwhile and egalitarian laws like that, where they said, and 620 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,959 Speaker 1: this is from an article, this is a heavy blow 621 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: to Chinatown guides who have collected a fee of two 622 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: dollars each, the opium smokers, gamblers, blind popplers, singing children 623 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,240 Speaker 1: and other curiosities. Singing children all hired. Yeah, there's thrown 624 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: in there, the singing children and the blind beggars. I 625 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 1: want to know more about the singing children. And he's 626 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: like carol ers, Like what, I don't understand. I guess 627 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: it was unusual thing for their supper kind of vibe 628 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: Oliver twist kind of situation. Do they also do choreograph 629 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 1: dance moves? I want to know more. Yeah, and uh, 630 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: I want to know more about the people who saw 631 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: those children. And then we're just like, oh, good luck 632 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: with your life, young lad. So anyway, um, this stuff 633 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: gradually starts to die off after World War Two, and 634 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: Professor Heap says he believes part of that is because 635 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: urban nightlife in general was less and less popular. Immediately 636 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,399 Speaker 1: after the post war, a lot of people were moving 637 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: out to suburbs. This is the age of the suburban explosion. 638 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: And this meant that the people who would have been 639 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: living in a city where they could consistently go on 640 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: slum tourism were now far removed from those places. But 641 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: then he points to what I think is an even 642 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: bigger thing television because now you don't have to travel there. 643 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: You can get your voyeurism by staying at home and 644 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 1: then um, you can vicariously experience that stuff. Also, there 645 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: was there were there were moves to better people's lives 646 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: in general in this country, welfare, social housing, and that 647 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,720 Speaker 1: lasted about until the eighties, nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties, 648 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: when state support for people started to go back on 649 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 1: the decline. UH, and slum tourism came back in the 650 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. I can't believe that, uh, it had a 651 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: more international flavor. You would see people going not necessarily 652 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: in New York or whatever, but in like India, South Africa, 653 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: the favela in Brazil, they would go tour this stuff. Totally. Yeah, 654 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: it's again parallel thinking, Like I don't think anyone had 655 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: to be given this idea. It's just sort of like, 656 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's like the most dangerous game. Let's like 657 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: hunt a poor man, you know, for our own amusement. 658 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just sort of some weird demonic thing 659 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: that's in humans that they want to like exploit other 660 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 1: humans and almost like revel in their misfortune, right right, 661 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 1: That is not me, and that means I am good. Right, Uh, 662 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: that's exactly it. Now here we get to a thing 663 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: that I think is worth us having conversation. But I'm 664 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: I'm really interested to see what we all think. The 665 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 1: resurgence of this stuff obviously sparked outrage with a lot 666 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: of people. The opponents say it is a racist exercise 667 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: and it is not helping these folks, But people who 668 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: support it say this puts money into critically impoverished neighborhoods 669 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: and it. Yeah, of course the tour operators make money, 670 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 1: but the people who live there make money too, And 671 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: there's an argument that it like raises awareness for the 672 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 1: less fortunate, say about the less fortunate, and there are 673 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: some people that might learn of these situations from this 674 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: kind of thing and then actually do something about it, 675 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 1: not just give them flowers. You know, you mentioned that 676 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: at the very top of the show, and I think 677 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: there's some merit to that sometimes gross things can lead 678 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: to positive things. So yeah, no, that's a really good 679 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 1: and optimistic point. I love that you made that point 680 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 1: because I think it's something we should remember. And Professor 681 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: heat might agree with you a bit there because he 682 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: says slumming as weird and other e as it is. 683 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: It promoted social mixing, and it started reshaping the sexual 684 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: and racial landscape his phrase in this really stratisfied society. Otherwise, 685 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: I think there was a mention earlier that we skipped um. 686 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: I think it was from heat. But the idea that 687 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: for some experiencing these marginalized communities, whether it big, trans um, 688 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: l G whatever, they wouldn't call it at the time. 689 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: They would have said something way more problematic like cross tressers. 690 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: But the experiencing of that for some who maybe I 691 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 1: haven't fully found their identity in that department, might actually 692 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: be a positive thing where they'd be like, oh, this 693 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 1: exists and and maybe this is me, you know, like 694 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,959 Speaker 1: that there's something to that. I think as well. Yeah, 695 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 1: And then on some level, direct interaction when people is 696 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: going to be a lot different from reading a headline 697 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: about a crime. You can put a face on it, 698 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: and that face is not so different from you, you know. 699 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 1: And that's why Heap says in conclusion that slumming, as 700 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 1: much as we might think it's a terrible thing today, 701 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,800 Speaker 1: slumming was in his opinion, somewhat positive in the context 702 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 1: of the time, you know, because it's like literally a 703 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: better than nothing situation, which is often how these things go, 704 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 1: you know, Like I said, it's from gross things sometimes 705 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: spring uh. You can almost call them like unintended positive outcomes. 706 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 1: And so that brings us to a close today. Now, 707 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: of course we have to mention that the three of 708 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: us love love traveling. Traveling is one of the things 709 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: in old you and I missed most about the pandemic. 710 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: And there is no more profound experience, or no more 711 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,839 Speaker 1: profound way to learn about the world around you than 712 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,880 Speaker 1: physically visited and participating. But don't be condescending about it. 713 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,320 Speaker 1: Don't be a jerk if you're a strange man in 714 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: a strange land or a strange person strange. I like 715 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: strange man a strange land because of the rhyme. I think. 716 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 1: If you're a strange man in strange land, then embrace it, 717 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: and embrace it in a respectful way, you know what 718 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 1: I mean, don't like. One thing that gets me in 719 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: the modern day is you see you'll see travelers from 720 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: wealthy countries go to a place to help. I'm leaning 721 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: into these air quotes so hard, and their help is 722 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 1: an Instagram picture of them with people, which is basically 723 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: just a way of big upping their own profile and 724 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: looking like some sort of like social justice warrior, white 725 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: savior thing, which is I think I think the side 726 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: has turned on that kind of thing where it's just like, 727 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: you know, like the thing you're talking about earlier, the 728 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: imagine or whatever. It's just not a good look. And 729 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 1: I think for the most part everyone realizes that. I mean, 730 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,720 Speaker 1: I use that jumpinator. There's this thing circling around about 731 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 1: this ad that played in the Super Bowl about like, oh, 732 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: we donated a hundred thousand dollars to this foundation and 733 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 1: the ad itself costs fifty million dollars to play. Okay, 734 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: we got to end on a point. We did another 735 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: episode earlier for stuff they don't want you to know 736 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 1: about radioactive clean up and the idea that the government, 737 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,399 Speaker 1: you know, would spend two billion dollars to clean up 738 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: poorly managed radioactive sites where they could have just done 739 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: a better job in the first place, but instead they 740 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,279 Speaker 1: now have to allocate two billion dollars. But yet it's 741 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: a tall order to you know, pay for children's educations 742 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,760 Speaker 1: and healthcare and you know, things that people need people 743 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: in general. Geez, well, I mean, but this year, we 744 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 1: took a dark again. We were trying the silver line 745 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,240 Speaker 1: we got because we're gonna head out for a weekend. 746 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 1: We're gonna have a great time, right there, we go. 747 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,840 Speaker 1: We're not going to be slum tourists. We are also 748 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,799 Speaker 1: you know, in our lives off air, we're I think 749 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: we're all pretty wholesome dudes. Uh. We also can't wait 750 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: to learn more strange stories like this is stranger than fiction. 751 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 1: In my opinion, it sounds kind of made up, but 752 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 1: it really happened. Um, So it's something that I can 753 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: see really taken to the nth degree by a very 754 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 1: talented sci fi type right now, you know, I mean 755 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: like you know, and we also remember we've done episodes 756 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,480 Speaker 1: in the past about human zoos. Remember that. Yeah, gosh, yeah, 757 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,480 Speaker 1: you're taking it dark again. That's true story. But that 758 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,920 Speaker 1: is a true story. But I also just want to 759 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:36,920 Speaker 1: reiterate we opened with this. I want to say it 760 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 1: at the end. I think it would be awesome if 761 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: we can make in person recording more of a regular thing. 762 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,360 Speaker 1: Does it does feel nice? It does feel nice. Well, 763 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,440 Speaker 1: it's a great way to end the week. Tis It's 764 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 1: always nice being in room with you two, except for you. No, Well, 765 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: especially small room like this where by the end of 766 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,879 Speaker 1: our recording we can all kind of smell each other. Yeah, 767 00:43:58,120 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: I mean we're all just kind of smelled the same 768 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 1: by the smells like the boys Town is just what 769 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 1: who would colleague, as Christians Sanger, you used to always 770 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,279 Speaker 1: say that after like recording marathon recordis as he said, 771 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 1: it smells like boys Town in the end. Well, I 772 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: hope you're doing well if you're reading this, Christian. Christian 773 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: is a fantastic author as well. He could He could 774 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,879 Speaker 1: probably write some do it good great comic book. Yeah, 775 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 1: I mean in addition to fiction, of course. Yeah. So 776 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: we are going to call it a day so we 777 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: can open this door and get some fresh air. I 778 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 1: hope the weather is lovely in your neck of the 779 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,839 Speaker 1: Global woods. Uh. And if you can get a chance 780 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,760 Speaker 1: to go outside adventure. Thanks as always, Mr Max Williams. 781 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 1: Thanks to Mr Casey Pegram. No, I know we've got 782 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 1: other people to thank, but I wanted to put you 783 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,920 Speaker 1: high on the list because this was really fun to 784 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 1: hang up. It was always a pleasure, my friend. Thanks 785 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:44,960 Speaker 1: to you as well. We'll see you next time, folks. 786 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,080 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I 787 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 788 00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.