WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: TechStuff Rides in Electric Cars 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.240 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios, 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:13.800 How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.200 I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:19.239 How Stuff Works and I heart Radio and I love 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.720 all things tech. And today we're looking at a classic 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:24.880 episode of tech Stuff. We're not just looking at it, 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:27.560 we're listening to it too, because it turns out, just 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.720 look at an audio file, not much happens. This original 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:36.440 episode published November twenty one, two thousand twelve. It is 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:40.400 titled Tex Stuff Rides in Electric Cars. Bet you can 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.919 guess what's about. Let's listen in. Did you know that 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:46.600 one of the more popular ways of getting around in 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:51.080 the earliest days of the horseless carriage was in an 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:54.480 electric vehicle? Yes, but I actually had a course in 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:57.120 college where we studied that, So I'll pretend now, Johnathan, 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:00.720 I had no idea. Well, Chris, you a written man. 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:03.640 I'm going to enlighten you. Now. If only you had 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:07.600 spent some hard earned cash on a on a education, 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.560 then you would know that that. Yeah, the electric car 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:16.559 is nothing new in a sense. We've had electric cars 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.240 for quite some time. They in fact pre date the 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:23.800 internal combustion engine car. Yeah. They it's funny to look 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:29.480 at the alternative methods for powering a car UH these days, 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:32.880 because in of course electric is one of the more 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:37.720 common ways to talk about it, or hybrids again not new, um, 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:40.080 but this is UH. There are other things too, like 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:45.479 talking about UH ethanol and and plant based fuels, biodiesel shore. 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:48.680 These kinds of things were talked about at the beginning 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:52.920 of the whole car thing when people were saying, you know, well, 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.120 what what would be used to power an engine or 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.680 or power a motor to make this happen? And they 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:01.320 ran through these things. Eventually Patroley one out. And the 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.080 reason this is so challenging now is because the petroleum 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:09.160 UH infrastructure is so well established exactly. But but it's 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:11.680 amazing to to think about because we think, oh, well, 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.359 you know, electric cars, well they're new. Well not really. 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:19.880 The problem is the technology UH hasn't been worked on 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:23.639 and and so long, at least by as many people. Right. Yeah, 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:26.359 when you go back to the earliest electric vehicles, they 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:30.120 were very limited. You could not go very far because 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.280 the batteries would run out of charge. They were not 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:38.800 necessarily rechargeable. You had massive batteries, so that meant that 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:41.480 added to the overall weight of the vehicle itself. They 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.320 didn't go very fast. They seem to be all right 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:49.440 for getting around, uh, like a city uh in the 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:53.800 late nineteenth century, but any difficult terrain that would start 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:59.160 to have problems. Uh. The steam powered cars actually ended 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:03.119 up being more popular than electric ones because they could 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:07.120 go much faster. And uh, they were not necessarily the 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.200 best choice either, because they were not terribly efficient. You 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:12.560 had to, you know, get the boiler heated up before 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:14.680 you could go anywhere. You had to actually start generating 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:19.320 steam before you could make the vehicle go, And there's 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.440 always the possibility that it could blow up real good, 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.360 which not not not something you necessarily want when you're 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.360 gonna take a little trip down to Grandma's is to 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:33.880 have the steam boiler explode on the way there. That's 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:39.080 that's generally what we consider a bad things productive transport. 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:45.360 But gas powered cars they had the power and the 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:48.640 versatility that people wanted in those early days of travel. 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:51.360 And because of that, and because we did build this 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:55.560 huge infrastructure to support those sort of cars, there's a 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.440 lot of momentum built up right, Yeah, Yeah, to use 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.320 a turn them in a way that I wasn't intending, 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.040 but they're exactly. They had built up a lot of momentum, 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:10.400 and it meant that any new quote unquote new developments 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.840 in uh this technology was going to be met with resistance. 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:18.479 Not necessarily you know, something that people were consciously trying 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:20.960 to resist, but just from the very nature of how 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:26.800 the industry developed. So resistance, Oh man, I am no, 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.400 I just can't get away from it, so I'll embrace it. 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:33.360 So the electric car is making kind of a comeback, 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:38.360 depending upon who you ask. Whom you ask, yes, well, yeah, 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:40.960 there it's been in the news a lot, especially during 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:46.159 the election cycle here in America. Yes, um, But do 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:48.400 you want to go back and start talking about some 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.000 of these early vehicles first, and we can kind of 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.080 talk about where we are now. Sure, if you've got 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:56.640 some information on early vehicles, I'd love to hear it. Okay, Well, Um, 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.320 I found a very interesting timeline that that suggested that 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.840 it was us oddish inventor Robert Anderson who came up 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:08.200 with a a very very basic electric car with non 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:12.880 rechargeable batteries. That seems like a problem, especially in eighteen 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:16.400 Somewhere in the early eighteen thirties as when he started 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.800 working on that, and uh, you know they kept working 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:23.440 on that. Uh. I also have a Gaston Plante, a 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.480 French physicist who in eighteen fifty nine had a rechargeable 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.920 lead acid battery. Actually, the lead acid battery has been 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:34.400 sort of the staple for electric cars for a while. Um, 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:38.480 but they're extremely heavy, probably because of the lead relate 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:43.760 and just a guess um um, but also a camille 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:47.880 of it doesn't have the accident on it far. Uh. 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.120 In eighty one improved upon that idea, and then in 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.960 in Des Moines, Iowa, H. William Morrison came up with 0:05:56.200 --> 0:06:00.480 an electric car in the United States here um, and 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:02.680 uh you know they were working on those. They even 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:05.960 had a fleet of electric taxis in New York. Yes, 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:11.520 because the first first pedestrian fatality in the Western hemisphere. 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:16.560 As I recall, now you're just being you know, am 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:18.520 I not? Am I not correct? Wasn't there someone who 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:20.560 stepped off a trolley and then was hit by an 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:25.360 electric taxi? Okay, well I don't have that in my notes, 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:29.560 So that's possibly that's possible trivia that may live somewhere 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:33.520 in Jonathan's head. And could have possibly been made up entirely. Well, 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.160 let us know, send your email to tech stuff at 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:40.160 Discovery dot com. True enough, the yeah, they had, they 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.640 had about sixty of them in New York. Um back 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:47.800 in the about the turn of the twentieth century. And um, yeah, gosh, 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.640 that's right. I have to say, I have to specified 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.280 turn of the century. Yeah, it just shows that I'm 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:57.240 still not thinking in the twenty century frame of mind. Yes, 0:06:57.320 --> 0:06:59.679 but in this case it was a New York state 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.720 of mind. Yes, it was so. Yeah. They As a 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:06.200 matter of fact, this had I found a really cool 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.120 timeline on NPR, which is National Public Radio here in 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:12.840 the in the United States. Um, that said that at 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.840 the turn of the century, twentie century, there were about 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:19.040 four thousand cars on the road and at that point 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:24.280 it was split about thirty three pc each steam, gasoline 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:29.760 and electric cars. Um. Basically they were clean. But um, 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:35.000 cold weather and batteries don't get along. If, yeah, lead 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.000 acid battery gets really cold, it's harder to get that 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:42.360 juice flowing. The electrochemical reactions that need to take place 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.720 are are slowed down by the cold. That's one of 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.960 those things where you know, I've heard people say that 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:53.560 in order to preserve your batteries you should put them 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:57.240 in some place cold, like a freezer refrigerator. Don't do that. 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:01.400 It actually makes it much more difficult for those electrical 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:06.320 electrochemical reactions to take place. So it you might think, oh, 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.520 it's it's slowing it down. So therefore the juice will 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.440 last longer even when I'm not using it in a 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:16.320 in a UM device, But it's not going to work 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.960 very well when you plug it back in. So uh, 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:21.760 the same sort of thing is true in cold weather. 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.240 You get in the car and you turn it on, 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.160 you just barely creeping along because that electrochemical reaction is 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.400 taking place so slowly you're not getting the juice you 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:36.240 need to get get moving now. It's you know, we 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.600 we've made some advances since then, so there have been 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.360 some more electric cars and we don't necessarily use lead 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.600 acid batteries and all of them anymore either. Um No, 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:47.720 but that was that was state of the art and 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:51.480 then not terribly distant past. Um. You know, there are 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:53.640 there are other types of rechargeable batteries, and of course 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.520 they do need to be rechargeable. It's very important, of course, 0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:00.240 otherwise we would have to have these stations every where 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.920 that would have you know, batteries who had to buy 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:04.839 a new battery every time your car was running out 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:06.800 of juice. You know, I'd switch them out and that 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.640 would not be very economical, and it would also take 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.839 up I mean a ton of space. Yep yep. Now, 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:17.880 of course some you might say, well, what what happened? Uh, 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:22.400 Henry Ford happened? He Boy did he happen? Well? He 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.800 and and from what I've read about him, uh, he 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:30.440 was a convert to the idea of using petroleum based cars. Um. 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.400 He did like the internal combustion engine, but preferred alternative 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:38.840 fuels to uh, to gasoline. But the thing is, you know, 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:47.199 once then the Model T was released in forty dollars um. 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:50.200 Basically that that you know, it was affordable for so 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:55.839 many people, and his production system made these cars so 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:00.120 easily available. Um that they were you know, they we're 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:02.920 undercutting the prices of electric cars and they were far 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:07.199 more available. So it took off. And uh then like 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:09.480 you know, the infrastructure gets built around it, and then 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:14.840 we're kind of not stuck so much as committed to 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.960 a particular type of vehicle. And it takes a lot 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.360 of effort to change that. And the reason for the 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:27.520 effort behind changing that is largely through an environmental concern, 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.120 but it goes beyond environment too, But we'll cover all 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.680 of these things. So you know, if you if you 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:37.920 just think about it from a very basic point of view, uh, 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:41.480 and you're and you're really oversimplifying things, it'd be easy 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.679 to say, oh, electric car makes sense because it does 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:49.520 not produce pollution the way a gas powered car does. 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:55.640 It's not emitting uh you know, any sort of uh 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:59.400 gas that could could pollute the environment. You're not worrying 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:03.839 about all the the particles that would come out of exhaust, 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:07.120 all of that sort of stuff, um applies. And so 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:08.920 there is that part of the argument where if you 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:11.760 were to just look at that part of the equation, 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.480 it would be very easy to say, ah, well, electric cars, 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:16.280 I mean, that's better for the world, so we should 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:20.560 we should totally switch to that. But you should know, 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:24.240 of course, that nothing is ever that simple to to 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.480 take in other considerations. You have to think, well, how 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.840 was the electricity generated? The electricity that is charging those 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.480 batteries in that electric car, which you know you have 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:38.679 to recharge. Most electric cars have well around forty to 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.959 fifty miles of range for a full charge and then up. 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:45.680 You know, you need to have at least that because 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.559 otherwise you would you know, look, just on a regular 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.680 commute to work, you could end up stranding yourself because 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:54.880 on the drive there and then half to drive back, 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.520 you've already gone further than what your car can accomplish 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.720 on its own. YEA. Thomas Edison was working on that 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.720 problem in he came out with a a nickel steel 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:10.200 battery that would last for about six miles according to 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.679 the NPR timeline. Um and uh you know that would 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.520 that would make it far more appealing for reasonable commutes. 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.120 I mean, uh, back at that time, people were not 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.080 driving the distances they do now released here in America. 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:27.040 Um to do different things and uh so, so that 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:32.559 was an improvement. But um, I think another um peg 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:36.840 on the side of the gasoline car was Charles Kettering 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:43.280 who came out with the electric automobile starter. And you know, 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:45.679 so rather than getting out and cranking your car up 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.320 with crank in the front to get it started, that 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.480 made the gasoline engine easier to start. And when you 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:54.840 had the combination of that and the lower prices of 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:58.719 the gasoline powered cars and the infrastructure. I think that 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:01.800 helped make a serious difference on the in in the 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:06.000 in favor of gasoline power cars, right right, And so 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:07.800 I mean, of course it's a totally different world than 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.400 the one we have today where we're looking at the 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:16.040 various uh impact of the gasoline cars out there on 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:19.080 the street. But getting back to the idea of the 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:23.120 environmentally friendly, if your electricity is being produced by coal 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:30.199 uh power power plants, then there's pollution going out into 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.840 the environment on behalf of the electricity you're using, so 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.840 you're not you know, the car is not as clean 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.400 as you would first think necessarily. Now if you're if 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:44.800 your electricity is coming through other means, like you have 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:49.240 a huge solar panel farm attached to your house, and 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:53.560 you might then that's much more clean. I mean, you 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.880 still have to consider things like what materials went into 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.160 producing both the car and the solar panels, because than 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.400 we might get into rare earth minerals. But we did 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.920 an entire episode of tech stuff on rare earth minerals, 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:08.920 and I suggest you go back and listen to that 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:13.240 right now, we'll wait. So anyway, now you know I'm 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.959 assuming you're all on the honor system that you did listen, 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.000 but now you know those rare earth minerals. That's a problem, right, 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.560 So that's another thing you have to think about with 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:25.640 this electric versus gas. Beyond that, you have to think 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:29.160 about things like the cost of the batteries, because depending 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.880 upon what kind of batteries are in your car there 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.800 electric car, they do eventually have to be replaced. They 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:39.040 will eventually run out of enough of the chemicals to 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.960 make that electrochemical process happen, and you'll have to change 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.200 them out, and they can be really expensive, so I 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.280 can add to the price of an electric car. Uh 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:51.440 And and price is another one of those issues, like 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.320 if you look at how much does it cost to 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:58.080 drive an electric car versus a gas powered car, and 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.200 you have to take into consideration everything like not just 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.720 the fuel prices and the electricity prices. I mean, that's 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:07.040 that would be easy to compare because I'm guessing that 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.960 in almost every case the cost of electricity is going 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.200 to be lower than the cost of gas. So from 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:14.880 that perspective, they're the same. But then you have to 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.160 think of things like, all right, well, replacing batteries you've 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:19.680 got to factor that into the cost. You know that's 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.880 going to happen, So that drives the electric prices up. 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.720 But then you think, well, gas powered cars tend to 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:30.840 require more maintenance because they have more moving parts. They 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.000 have fluids that they have to handle, like the gasoline 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:35.880 and things of that nature. So you've got tubes and 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:37.880 pipes and stuff that you don't have an electric cars. 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.560 They don't. They don't have those those things. There's the 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:42.560 only fluids you have to worry about, things like break 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:46.760 fluid and uh, when should wiper fluid and of course 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:51.600 headlight fluid. Um. Well, but otherwise, yeah, you know, it's 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.080 so what I'm trying to get at is that this 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.760 is a really complex issue, and it's really really, really 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:02.160 tricky to do a direct comparison between the two. In general. However, 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:06.400 most the information I see shows that in the long run, 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:11.160 being five years and longer, an electric car properly maintained 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:16.600 versus a gas powered car properly maintained is a better deal. 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.040 But it does take a few years for that to 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:22.880 kick in. Yeah, I do feel compelled to point out 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:28.240 that most automobile manufacturers believe that their batteries were outlast 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.600 the life of the car. So it is unlikely that 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.440 you will have to replace the array of batteries in 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:38.440 a battery powered vehicle. Unlikely. And it also depends on 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:42.480 how long you keep the vehicle too, I mean most people. Uh, 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.800 the the lifespan of of cars has been increasing here 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.560 in the United States. UM. Where once it was in 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:53.000 the single digits, it's now you know, in the double digits. UM. 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.080 But of course you do, as Jonathan said, need to 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:58.040 take care of your vehicle in order for that to happen. UM. 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.840 And there's also you know, there's is also a matter 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:05.159 of shipping costs to m because parts for some of 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:09.600 these these things, um have to come from different places 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.440 and so um. You know, I know that a few 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:17.119 years ago they were talking about the early hybrid vehicles 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.200 and people were buying them because they used less gasoline 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:22.119 because they were you know, like a mixture of of 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.600 battery power and gas power. But they said, well, you know, 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:28.240 the thing is the parts come from so many different 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:32.320 places that it takes fossil fuels to you know, to 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.240 be burned, to get those parts to one place to 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.280 have them assembled and then take them to the place 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:42.960 where you buy the vehicle and some of the uh, 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:49.040 the green hue that you're either partly or completely battery 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:55.160 powered vehicle has is sort of tinged by um, the 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:59.480 offset of the oka. Yes, it gets an oily tin 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:01.800 was I was waiting. I was just waiting because I 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.480 was like, I was staring at Chris, thinking where's this going? 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:10.440 But I get it. I get it. It's yeah, it's 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.840 definitely a complex issue. And and on top of that, 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:17.240 you know, you might say, well, the the cost of 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:22.080 an electric vehicle often right now as we're recording this 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.639 podcast anyway, tends to be more expensive than a comparable 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:29.840 vehicle that is gas powered. It's been improving, right, and 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.040 it's one of those things like any technology, where the 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:34.520 earlier versions tend to be more expensive, and as we 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:39.360 improve our manufacturing techniques and and everything around that, then 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.080 the prices can come down. On top of that, we 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.440 have to remember the political side of this, where in 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:48.400 the United States, there are especially within particular states we're 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.560 talking about both federal and state level here. UM, there 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:55.480 are incentives in many places to purchase an electric car 0:18:55.840 --> 0:19:00.480 where you can get tax credits or rebates and helps 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:04.040 bring the overall price of the vehicle down closer to 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:08.720 within the range of other cars in that class. Hey, guys, 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.119 Jonathan from two thousand nineteen, I'm here to pump the 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.000 brakes a little bit on this classic episode for us 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:24.160 to take a quick break. A lot of complex issues here. 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.240 Some of them are economics, some of them are environmental, 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:30.119 some of them are political. And that's why it's really 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:33.160 been kind of a hot button issue. I mean, particularly 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.000 that political part with the the tax credits. I've seen 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.600 I've seen praise for that where where people have said, 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.879 because of this, you have put electric vehicles within the 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:47.080 grasp of more more folks than otherwise would have that 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.159 opportunity because otherwise it would be too expensive for them 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.920 to buy. On the flip side, there are people saying, 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:57.600 this is our tax money. You're giving credits to other 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:02.040 people with my money. Uh. I think that's a very personally, 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.200 this is my opinion. I think that's a fairly short 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.120 sighted view saying that my money is going to give 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.320 someone else a break when you're thinking, okay. Ultimately, the 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.040 idea here is that we're trying to get ourselves off 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:18.600 a dependence on oil and gasoline as much as we 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:22.320 possibly can, and in that sense, it is a benefit 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:24.600 to me even if I never go out and buy 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:28.359 an electric car, to help reduce that dependency on oil, 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:32.439 particularly when you get into global politics where you have 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.159 to worry about who is it that owns the oil 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.760 that we are getting, and what is our political relationship 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:43.320 with them, what's our political relationship with the country surrounding 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:48.120 that one, what's that country's political relationship. It gets so thorny. 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:51.480 So in my in my view, the in the long 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:57.040 term game, uh, this incentive to go out and get 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:01.080 electric car could be of great bennet fit to everyone. 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.320 But again you have to be able to take that 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:08.760 long term look and just uh suppressed that that initial 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.760 urge to say this isn't fair because my money is 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:13.960 going to help someone else and I don't see, like 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:15.800 I'm not buying an electric car, so I don't see 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:18.760 why I have to pay this this tax money. Yeah. Yeah, 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.119 And now, of course, um, whether or not you agree 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:24.800 with it, it's it's easy to at least understand that point. 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:27.680 I mean, not all not all politics are understandable, but 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.240 it's understandable to say, hey, you know, I'm I'm I'm 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:34.560 paying taxes. I want to see something for my money. 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:37.119 And well, the thing the easy argument for that is 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:40.280 we'll go buy an electric car, dude. UM. But no, 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:44.240 that that's that's oversimplifying the argument that the thing is 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:48.800 because they're so expensive, they're not affordable for everyone. UM. 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:52.600 Perhaps somebody particularly likes their car. There. Car enthusiasts are 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:56.880 very passionate about certain vehicles. UM. And you know, for 0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:00.359 a long time we've had gas powered vehicles that people 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:02.520 have fallen in love with, so you know, they're they're 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:05.520 going to be people who still love that UM, which 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:09.800 in my personal opinion is understandable. But I also would 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:13.280 like to uh see electric car succeed because I do 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:16.400 think there are um, you know, better for the environment 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:20.120 in the long haul, uh, at least in the immediate sense. Now, 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:22.320 there's a lot as we were talking about, this isn't 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:25.040 something that's going to happen overnight. There's a lot of 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:26.960 work that has to be done. One company that I 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:30.760 think UM is interesting to to follow is a company 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:35.720 called Better Place, which is UM I believe, uh an 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:40.080 Israeli company, and they have been working with organizations all 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:43.480 over the world to test out there uh their systems. Now, 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:47.080 why are Magazine had an article about them and UM 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:49.439 their founder I don't know if I'm pronouncing his his 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:54.600 first name writer not shy Agassi UM and UH. Basically 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:58.960 they have their Their website is very informative about the 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:02.280 different kinds of technologies that they are looking at. But 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:06.440 they're working on ways to convert uh more typical cars 0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:09.760 rather than building them from scratch to UH to electricity 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:13.240 and and uh basically creating the infrastructure that would be 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:17.280 necessary to power these vehicles. UM, which I mean no 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:21.240 pun intended power UM. But yeah, I mean it's some 0:23:22.240 --> 0:23:24.920 it's I think that you know, if you poke around 0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:27.159 on the website they have, at least they give you 0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:29.440 an idea of what it's the kind of work it's 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:32.400 going to take. And it's not going to be UM. 0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:34.159 I don't think it's going to be one company or 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:37.120 one person or one country around the world. It's going 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:40.840 to take many people in many countries, you know, working 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:43.520 on the problem to generate a real solution to it. 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:46.600 Because you know, frankly, if you look at the timeline 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:51.119 on NPR there there, it goes from the downfall of 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:53.719 the electric car in basically all the things we were 0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:59.159 talking about before to and that's because people just weren't 0:23:59.200 --> 0:24:01.920 working on the problem them in between. I mean they were, 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:04.120 but they were It was more of a I wouldn't 0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:06.879