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Speaker 1: All Media.

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Speaker 2: It's an introduction to the podcast.

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Speaker 3: I'm your host Bia Wong with these Garrison. Hello, Hello,

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Speaker 3: welcome to Part three of This Nightmare. Yeah, so okay,

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Speaker 3: all the way back in episode one, I said that

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Speaker 3: Marxist Leninism was based on a series of arguments about

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Speaker 3: the state, the nature of socialism, and the left relation

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Speaker 3: to nationalism. And today we're going to go through some

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Speaker 3: of those arguments because they're key to understanding the rise

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Speaker 3: of a new kind of nationalist socialism, one that's focused

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Speaker 3: on taking back your country from nebulous global elites and

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Speaker 3: from Zionists. They call it baga communism, but you might

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Speaker 3: almost call it a kind of national socialism.

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Speaker 2: So how do we.

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Speaker 4: Get from Marxist Leninism in ideology, who is defining thing

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Speaker 4: is pure total opposition to the American Empire to maga

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Speaker 4: communism and think about how great the US is and

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Speaker 4: how much they like trump patriotic community. On that path,

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Speaker 4: these are two distant Patriotic socialism and maga communism are

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Speaker 4: two technically distinct things. Will be getting into that. It's

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Speaker 4: a it's a long dark road ahead, but there's no

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Speaker 4: light at the end of it either. It just it

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Speaker 4: just keeps being long and dark. So I think I

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Speaker 4: think the place to start if you want to understand

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Speaker 4: how this sort of like or a borous of shit

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Speaker 4: emerged from the left is by talking about the left's

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Speaker 4: discourse on nationalism.

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Speaker 2: So one of the things.

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Speaker 4: That Marxist Leninism did, and this is one of its

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Speaker 4: key political achievements on the left, was to rehabilitate nationalism

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Speaker 4: and talk about it in a way that was very,

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Speaker 4: very different to what was happening in the left before this.

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Speaker 2: And you know, because the.

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Speaker 4: Left around twenty eleven, like around Occupy, but after that,

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Speaker 4: tend to be very skeptical of nationalism because you know,

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Speaker 4: they had come out of like the Bush era and

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Speaker 4: where you know, had had had had first hand experience

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Speaker 4: with like what American nationalism really looks like and how

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Speaker 4: much it absolutely sucks.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 4: And the Marxist Londonists are something to bring this bring

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Speaker 4: nationalism back into the left, and they're doing this the

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Speaker 4: arguments that aren't necessarily wrong. Their argument is effectively that

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Speaker 4: anti colonial nationalism and anti colonial nationalisms, because there's a

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Speaker 4: bunch of them, and particularly like non white anti colonial nationalism,

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Speaker 4: like aren't the same thing as American nationalism and that

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Speaker 4: these anti colonial nationalisms like are revolutionary. And this is

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Speaker 4: true in a lot of cases, right, Like Palestinian nationalism

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Speaker 4: is like a completely different thing from Australian nationalism. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and you know, I'm pretty opposed to like nationalism on principle,

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Speaker 4: but I'm not going to like tell some Kurdish kid

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Speaker 4: that they need to like abandon their desire to speak

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Speaker 4: Krimuji because it's like insufficiently revolutionary or whatever. Right Like,

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Speaker 4: But this is where we kind of start running into

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Speaker 4: problems because you know, okay, so what about like Bathism

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Speaker 4: For example, Bathism originally is a leftist like nationalist movement

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Speaker 4: right and they are opposed at least nomin Leagio American imperialism.

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Speaker 4: But they are one hardline anti communists and two hardcore

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Speaker 4: Arab nationalists, which may have been vaguely tolerable if you

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Speaker 4: were Arab, but like, God help you if you are

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Speaker 4: like Kurdish or Syria Yazdi or like any other national

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Speaker 4: minority under bath Party rule, where you know, they're going

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Speaker 4: to ban your flags, they're going to ban your language,

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Speaker 4: they're going to like keep your keep you from like

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Speaker 4: naming your kids like your names. This is literally a thing,

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Speaker 4: like it sounds absolutely nuts, but like yeah, like it

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Speaker 4: was illegal to give your kid like a Kurdish name

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Speaker 4: in both in both sort of Bathist Syria and Bathists

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Speaker 4: or rock and you know, if you try to resist,

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Speaker 4: they'll kill you. And I'm using Baphism like as an

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Speaker 4: example for this because like there are people now who

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Speaker 4: are genuinely Bathists, but it's like it's really hard to

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Speaker 4: find people who support the Bath Party.

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Speaker 5: Yes, for reference, I have never heard of this despite you.

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Speaker 4: Never heard of the Bath Party Isadasins party?

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Speaker 5: Okay, Well, in terms of the it's revelancy to the

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Speaker 5: modern kind of workings of of of the sort of

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Speaker 5: political sphere as I operated, this is not something that

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Speaker 5: has come up in Yeah, I've in my.

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Speaker 4: Conversations, I've ran into them there. I've ran into a

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Speaker 4: few neo Bathists who are either like Saddam well so

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Speaker 4: so the big bastion of kind of.

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Speaker 5: Like it's not even really Bathhism anymore.

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Speaker 4: But like like Basharo saw, it technically is like a

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Speaker 4: bath Okay, although his they're not really Baptists anymore. They

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Speaker 4: just kind of have this party apparatus still around. But

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Speaker 4: like you know, most people are like, Okay, this sucks, right,

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Speaker 4: but but you know, I'm using baptism because it's it's

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Speaker 4: the easy sample. But like this, this is a question

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Speaker 4: you have to ask with basically all national liberation movements.

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Speaker 4: And it's one people don't like asking, which is whose

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Speaker 4: nation is being liberated? And you know what kind of

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Speaker 4: class collaboration and ideological collapse do these nationalist movements produce?

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Speaker 4: And these aren't abstract questions, right. One of the big

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Speaker 4: examples of this is West Papuo, which is a place

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Speaker 4: that is ruthlessly and brutally colonized by Indonesia. But you

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Speaker 4: know Sukarno, who's this great sort of like Sukarno is

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Speaker 4: this great like anti imperialist hero. He's the guy who

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Speaker 4: did the Bank Dun Conference, which is the giant assembly

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Speaker 4: of all of the sort of like Asian and African

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Speaker 4: states to like join together to resist imperialism. And but

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Speaker 4: like one of the things that this left wing Indonesian

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Speaker 4: nationalism is about is their right to colonize Papua. So

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Speaker 4: the West Papua wins just get absolutely screwed over by

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Speaker 4: by the Indonesians. And this is this is this place

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Speaker 4: where you have to ask, like whose nation is being liberated,

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Speaker 4: and the answer is not the West. Pop wins, right,

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Speaker 4: They're just getting absolutely screwed because the nation is being

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Speaker 4: liberated is this new nation of Indonesia.

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Speaker 2: And not them.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I mean I've talked about this on

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Speaker 4: the show before, Like I'm personally skeptical of left wing

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Speaker 4: nationalist movements because I'm from China, Like, like, my family

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Speaker 4: is from China, and we had two left wing national

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Speaker 4: liberation movements traded back by the USSR, And the first one,

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Speaker 4: which is the Chinese Nationalist Party, made it about seven

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Speaker 4: years before they turned on the Chinese working class and

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Speaker 4: butchered them in the streets with machine guns and then

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Speaker 4: spent the next seventy years as like a fascist desk

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Speaker 4: squad party. And then the other one, the Chinese Communist Party,

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Speaker 4: lasted yeah, maybe like forty years. I mean they they

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Speaker 4: lasted like how many is in power, Like seventeen years

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Speaker 4: in power before they get to the Cultural Revolution where

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Speaker 4: they were also shooting workers in the streets and bulldozing

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Speaker 4: Moss and ching John, which is the thing that they

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Speaker 4: continue to do to this day as part of what

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Speaker 4: is And I shit, you not the name for the

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Speaker 4: quote unquote counter terrorism operation that China runs in Ching

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Speaker 4: John is the People's War on Terror. I wish I

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Speaker 4: was making this up. I'm not right this and this

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Speaker 4: is a product of Chinese nationalism, right, like like it's

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Speaker 4: Chinese Islamophobia, Chinese nationalism that sort of do this stuff.

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Speaker 4: I'm very skeptical of nationalism as like a liberatory framework.

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Speaker 4: Like it's complicated, right, It's genuinely is sure one of

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Speaker 4: these things that's you know, like there there are there

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Speaker 4: are there's lots of nuances to it, and you know,

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Speaker 4: I think you have to take a kind of middle

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Speaker 4: ground of like you have to keep it kind of

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Speaker 4: under control. But also like I'm not going to go

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Speaker 4: tell a Palestinian care that their nationalism is bad, right,

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Speaker 4: like it's you know, I should I realized that I've

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Speaker 4: never explained.

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Speaker 2: This the whole time I was doing this.

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Speaker 4: So AM is an abbreviation for Marxist Leninist that people

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Speaker 4: say because saying Marxist Leninists over and over again, like

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Speaker 4: I've been doing for these past two episodes is wearying. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: So the MLS decided to take the other extreme, which

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Speaker 4: is just mainlining every single non Western nationalist and that

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Speaker 4: can get their hands on because they're trying to hold

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Speaker 4: nationalist positions that are contradictory at the same time. So

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Speaker 4: for example, like that they're trying to be both. Okay,

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Speaker 4: I guess I should explain this a little bit. So

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Speaker 4: part of it is people being nationalists for countries that

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Speaker 4: they're not from, which is deeply weird. Part of it also,

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Speaker 4: and this is part of the reason this stuff spread

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Speaker 4: is you know, you get like Chinese people becoming Chinese nationalists,

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Speaker 4: like in response to like COVID and anti Asian violence

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Speaker 4: are just sort of in general as like a pipeline.

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Speaker 4: But you know, you get people trying to have both

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Speaker 4: being both like Chinese nationalists and Vietnamese nationalist at the

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Speaker 4: same time. And that doesn't make any sense. I mean,

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Speaker 4: like the whole apparatus that all of these sort of

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Speaker 4: revolutionary anti imperialist nationalisms would work together with sha like

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Speaker 4: should have been shattered when China invaded Vietnam. Their solution

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Speaker 4: to this is just to pretend that it never happened,

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Speaker 4: you know. And and but but like like Chinese and

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Speaker 4: Vietnamese nationalisms like don't like each other, like on the

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Speaker 4: Vietnamese side in like modern Vietnam. So they have like

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Speaker 4: a basically their own verse. It's not actually their own

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Speaker 4: version of like it's not actually like a Q and

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Speaker 4: no branded thing, but they have a conspiracy theory that's

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Speaker 4: like their version of the like sovereign citizen like Q thing,

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Speaker 4: and their version of it is that it basically says

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Speaker 4: that the Vietnamese government sold the country to China in

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Speaker 4: nineteen ninety and they're like embarking on like a forty

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Speaker 4: year plan to like fully sell the country to China,

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Speaker 4: and like the globe, like Western m house just completely

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Speaker 4: ignore this stuff because it's not convenient for them, and

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Speaker 4: they just pretend that all these people get along. But

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Speaker 4: this stuff gets, you know, it gets incredibly bizarre and

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Speaker 4: like just weird really quickly. Like one of the things

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Speaker 4: I remember from back in twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, I

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Speaker 4: started I was hearing like leftists talking about how Ukraine

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Speaker 4: wasn't a real nationality and how they've been invented by

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Speaker 4: Nazis and that Ukrainians are inherently fascist, and I was like, what,

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Speaker 4: like why is some random kid from New Jersey suddenly

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Speaker 4: screaming about how Ukraine is like a fake nationality, and

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Speaker 4: you know, it turns out, yeah, like it's because these

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Speaker 4: people were like really getting into Russian nationalism, and like

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Speaker 4: in like twenty sixteen, it was just deeply weird. And

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Speaker 4: then you get to like twenty twenty two and all

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Speaker 4: these people are just straight up supporting like Putin's invasion

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Speaker 4: of Ukraine on the grounds that like Ukraine isn't a

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Speaker 4: real place and also is only Nazis and stuff like that.

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Speaker 4: And this has this has real sort of ideological consequences

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Speaker 4: for what Marxist Leninism becomes, because it begins to pivot

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Speaker 4: around owned a collection of nationalism, so the point where

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Speaker 4: it's not even it's not based on communism anymore. It's

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Speaker 4: just pure economic nationalism. And this is a product of

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Speaker 4: these incredibly convoluted justifications they have to put together for

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Speaker 4: supporting China, which is objectively a market economy and like

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Speaker 4: very obviously a market economy. Well, you know, so they

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Speaker 4: have to support China will also nominally being anti capitalist.

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to go into these arguments because they're

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Speaker 4: just pseudo Marxist gibberish. It's just just weird intellectual posturing.

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Speaker 4: I think it's more useful to look at where it

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Speaker 4: ends up, which is have you ran into the people

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Speaker 4: advocating bricks. It's like the great anti American thing.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what bricks is?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 2: Oh god, Okay, so I don't know. I don't think.

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Speaker 4: So bricks is a thing that stands for Brazil, Russia, India.

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Speaker 2: China and South Africa. Oh god.

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Speaker 4: It was originally a asset class developed by the chairman

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Speaker 4: of asset management at Goldman Sachs. So this is how

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Speaker 4: you know it's really anti imperialist, right, Like.

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Speaker 5: This it's a golden golden sacks carrier of the red flag.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like it's it's it's an investment, It's an outline

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Speaker 4: of an investment strategy.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: But a lot of a lot of these people become

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Speaker 4: convinced that like bricks is like it's like a real alliance,

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Speaker 4: and these people are like gonna like create the multipolar

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Speaker 4: world where the US is no longer the only power.

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Speaker 4: This is anti imperialism, and like.

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Speaker 6: Uhhh yeah, this is like on a fundamental level, if

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Speaker 6: you're pushing bricks as an anti imperialist formation, like what

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Speaker 6: are we even doing here? Like who is doing the

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Speaker 6: socialism in Brazil Russia, India and China and South Africa, right, like,

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Speaker 6: is it the guy who invaded Haiti?

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Speaker 4: Is it the butcher a Gujarat? Is it Vladimir quote

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Speaker 4: we will show Ukraine true decommunization putin is it the

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Speaker 4: African National Congress of selling your comrades out to Bank

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Speaker 4: of America? Or is it quote we must combat welfaism shijimping,

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Speaker 4: Like none of these states are even remotely socialist, but

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Speaker 4: you know, people are people are holding them up as

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Speaker 4: like anti imperialist powers because you know, they're they're sort

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Speaker 4: of faux anti imperialism has completely devoured whatever their anti

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Speaker 4: capitalism used to be. And you know, you shouldn't look

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Speaker 4: too close to yet, like India's relations with the US either.

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Speaker 4: Pay no attention to the fact that Indian and Chinese

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Speaker 4: truth periodically beat each other the death in the mountains.

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Speaker 6: Uh.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's a disaster. But this is what happens

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Speaker 4: when you mix nationalism with your socialism. And because of

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Speaker 4: where this is going, we should talk about the history

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Speaker 4: a little bit, about the history of displacing class struggle

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Speaker 4: with the struggle between states. Because one of the people

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Speaker 4: who does this is a man that a Garrison. I

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Speaker 4: bet you have heard of his name is Benito Mussolini.

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Speaker 5: Oh yes, I'm I'm slightly familiar with his with his work.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and Mussolini's thing, like one of his things in

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Speaker 4: the beginning is that, you know, okay, So, like the

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Speaker 4: Marxist line is that there's class struggle between the proletariat

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Speaker 4: and the borgeoisi rights. So the capitalists and working class

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Speaker 4: are fighting it out, and that's the you know, the

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Speaker 4: logic of history is driven by these two classes fighting

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Speaker 4: it out, and Mussolini goes, no, No, proletarians and bourgeoisie

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Speaker 4: have been replaced by the struggle between like proletarian nations

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Speaker 4: and capitalists nations. So this is you know, you can

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Speaker 4: you can start to see the outlines of how we're

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Speaker 4: going to get to a national socialism from here. But first,

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Speaker 4: do you know who else opposes a national socialism? Is

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Speaker 4: it the product okay this podcast?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure advertising hates hates the tenants

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Speaker 5: of national socialism.

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Speaker 2: We're back, okay.

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Speaker 4: So we have the nationalism parts in national socialism, and

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Speaker 4: one of the other parts about this nationalism is that

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Speaker 4: it's the vector by which a bunch of right wing

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Speaker 4: social values start creeping into these Marxist Leninist spaces because

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Speaker 4: there are still a lot of like old school Marxistlninist

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Speaker 4: parties left over from like the sixties, but a lot

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Speaker 4: of them are just basically right wingers now. Like they're

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Speaker 4: unbelievably homophobic, they're transphobic, they like scream about cancel culture

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Speaker 4: all the time, like they're just they're just boomers, right,

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Speaker 4: but they're boomers who the thing they're boomer for is

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Speaker 4: Marcis Leninism. And the ML's strategy for dealing with this

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Speaker 4: was to just ignore it effectively, you know, and they're

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Speaker 4: they're able. They do a really good job at ignoring.

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Speaker 4: This is happening right, like the fact that Russia has

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Speaker 4: passed a series of laws that ban all gender affirming

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Speaker 4: surgery and changing like all They banned all gender affirming surgery.

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Speaker 4: They banned like anything that allows would have allowed you

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Speaker 4: to change your gender on like any any like any

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Speaker 4: state identification documents. They've banned same sex marriage in the constitution.

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Speaker 4: They banned anyone like the recent one is. They banned

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Speaker 4: anyone from saying that same sex relationships are quote normal

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Speaker 4: or good, And those are their words not mine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have seen this.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know, they've also declared the quote global

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Speaker 4: LGBTQ Movement as an extremist organ immediately started doing raids

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Speaker 4: on like queer bars and nightclubs. And this has changed

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Speaker 4: the minds of zero of the MLS who've been supporting,

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Speaker 4: who've been supporting like the Russian invasion of Ukraine, they

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Speaker 4: just don't care. And because they don't care, because they've

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Speaker 4: been doing they've been spending an incredibly you know. One

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Speaker 4: of the things that they do too, is like they've

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Speaker 4: been trying to they try to make the argument that like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 4: these places are actually good for group people.

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Speaker 2: I see this with China a lot, where you're.

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Speaker 4: Like, no, no, China has one trans person who was

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Speaker 4: a talk show host, So conditions for trans people there

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Speaker 4: are really good. Meanwhile, like actually being a transperson and

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Speaker 4: trying to fucking sucks ass. There's really only like a

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Speaker 4: tiny number of of gender clinics, like you have to

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Speaker 4: like you have to like there's like this whole thing

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Speaker 4: where you have to like get approval from a bunch

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Speaker 4: of people to get surgery.

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Speaker 2: You have to like prove you're not a criminal or something.

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Speaker 2: You have to have like a great it's it's completely nuts.

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Speaker 4: The whole system is just nuts, right, but you know

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Speaker 4: they would either just pretend that it wasn't real or

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Speaker 4: just completely ignore it. And what this did was leave

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Speaker 4: a space, like leave room in these Martians Lenin spaces

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Speaker 4: for people who are not really leftists at all, but

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Speaker 4: are just like hard line, homophobic, like transphobic, anti American nationalists.

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Speaker 4: And I started seeing this with because so one of

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Speaker 4: the problems that Marcis Leninism has is that it's not

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Speaker 4: a it's not an ideology that exists outside of like

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Speaker 4: the US, Britain, Australia, a bit of Europe. Right like

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Speaker 4: it doesn't exist in China. The closest equivalent to this

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Speaker 4: stuff in China, like people who are pro like very

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Speaker 4: hardline pro Chinese government and are also like pro Chinese nationalism.

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Speaker 4: The only people in China who believe this stuff are

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Speaker 4: hardline right wingers, like people who are people who in

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Speaker 4: the US would be classified as fascists. And you started

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Speaker 4: to see these people like moving into like Marxist line

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Speaker 4: into spaces because you know, nobody gave a shit that

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Speaker 4: they were like incredibly homophobic and transphobic, and they were

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Speaker 4: just I mean again just objectively right wingers, right, and

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Speaker 4: they just start to sort of creep into these spaces. Now,

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Speaker 4: this may or may not have ever turned into a

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Speaker 4: real thing, we don't know, but there are two break

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Speaker 4: points that really like kicked the sort of birth of

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Speaker 4: the the of like maga communism and patriarch so like

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Speaker 4: the sort of right trajectory of this stuff like into focus.

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Speaker 4: There was some stuff that happened in the middle of

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Speaker 4: the twenty twenty uprisings and then surprise their prize January sixth.

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Speaker 4: So do you remember you probably yeah, you were probably

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Speaker 4: busy while this was going on. Do you remember that

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Speaker 4: the giant outcry over the book in Defensive Looting?

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Speaker 5: Uhhh slightly, yeah, I know that liberals were mad about

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Speaker 5: the title of the book, that's yeah, and conservatives selfiously

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Speaker 5: oh yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: So yeah.

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Speaker 4: So so in the middle of the uprising kind of,

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Speaker 4: I guess, kind of towards the tail end of the uprising.

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Speaker 4: Completely by coincidence, my friend Vicky Austin whil had been

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Speaker 4: writing a book called Indefensive Looting, which people should actually

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Speaker 4: go read because it's really interesting, and she got an

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Speaker 4: interview with NPR about it, and people lost their fucking

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Speaker 4: minds about this book. Like everyone from like everyone from

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Speaker 4: Tucker Carlson to like sitting members of the us SE.

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Speaker 4: We're going on record announcing like I think, I think

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Speaker 4: the Democratic Party like officially denounced it like it was.

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Speaker 4: I have never seen this kind of like cross partisan

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Speaker 4: every like hate longering. I'm at a book and like

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Speaker 4: the entire time I've been on the left, and you know,

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Speaker 4: and this this didn't just it wasn't just liberals and

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Speaker 4: conservatives and fascists who are freaking out about this. This

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Speaker 4: extended to a bunch of the left. There was there's

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Speaker 4: a lot of like like I mean, the editors of

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Speaker 4: the New Republic right or like the writing articles denouncing

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Speaker 4: this stuff like it is. It's and it spreads across

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Speaker 4: the social democratic left because the social Democrats are mad

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Speaker 4: that people are louding small businesses. And the other group

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Speaker 4: that really really comes out against this is like ar

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Speaker 4: the Marxist London is like as people like the Gray Zone.

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Speaker 4: People really come out against this, and you know, okay,

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Speaker 4: so like why am I talking about people not liking

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Speaker 4: a book. The reason I want to talk about this

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Speaker 4: is that what emerges from this specific thing. So Vicky,

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Speaker 4: the author of this book is both trans and Jewish,

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Speaker 4: and what emerges here is this very specific combination of transphobia,

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Speaker 4: anti semitism, anti black racism, both explicitly anti black racism

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Speaker 4: and in the form of crime panics. And if you

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Speaker 4: look at all of those elements together, that has been

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Speaker 4: the entire right wing strategy for you know, putting all

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Speaker 4: of the like uppity minorities back in their place after

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Speaker 4: the uprising right that was their entire strategy, the defense

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Speaker 4: of small businesses, you know, and then and then turning

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Speaker 4: that into crime panic.

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Speaker 2: To rebuild support for the police.

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Speaker 4: This was, you know, that anti semitism, transphobia, that is

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Speaker 4: their entire strategy for post twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: And this is like, this is the.

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Speaker 4: Place where it was first. All of it was put

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Speaker 4: together in one spot. And again like a lot of

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Speaker 4: people who are nominally socialists, like a lot of Marxist

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Speaker 4: Lennon is like joining on this because even though the

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Speaker 4: point of socialism is to like end capitalists owning private property,

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Speaker 4: well that.

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Speaker 2: Is ostensibly the point, I think, yeah, but.

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Speaker 4: In reality, like like the Margin's London is like they

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Speaker 4: don't actually oppose capitalism. They just think it should be

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Speaker 4: run by someone else. So they everyone, like everyone falls

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Speaker 4: in line and joins this sort of like you know,

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Speaker 4: joins the sort of ritual denunciation of this book. And

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Speaker 4: this is one of these things that really sort of

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Speaker 4: cleaves like it really it cleaves the left in between

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Speaker 4: the people who like actually fully support the uprising and

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Speaker 4: the people who were like, oh no.

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Speaker 2: The small business is oh no, the horror.

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Speaker 4: And the second thing that really reshapes the environment, like

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Speaker 4: the whole sort of ecosystem like of the left is

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Speaker 4: January sixth. And so I don't know if people how

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Speaker 4: much people remember the initial reactions to it. I think

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Speaker 4: the reaction is to January sixth, and the left can

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Speaker 4: be divided into roughly three different reactions, although people have

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Speaker 4: mixes of them. Reaction one, this is funny. Two, Oh

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Speaker 4: my god, the fascists tried to do a coup and

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Speaker 4: installed Trump as dictator. And reaction three January sixth was

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Speaker 4: the white working class having its revenge on the liberal politicians. Now, okay, objectively,

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Speaker 4: we can say that January safe was not the white

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Speaker 4: working class. It's revenge with the politicians.

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Speaker 5: If you are one of the first two opinions. That's fine,

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Speaker 5: that's normal, that makes sense. If you're the last of one,

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Speaker 5: you should stop listening to this podcast.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know I want to actually so I

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Speaker 4: spent a bunch of time after this, and some other

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Speaker 4: people did this too, like trying to figure out the

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Speaker 4: actual like who from who was arrested, and who we

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Speaker 4: know was there, what their actual class backgrounds are. And

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Speaker 4: it turns out the three most common kinds of people

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Speaker 4: who were there are troops, cops, the small business owners,

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Speaker 4: which is it is as pure of an expression of

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Speaker 4: the social base of fascism as you can possibly.

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Speaker 2: Get right like it is.

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Speaker 4: The world was just like, hey, this is what fashionsm

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Speaker 4: crops like it is.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think there's there's I think there's a lot

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Speaker 5: a lot of participants in that crowd who I maybe

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Speaker 5: wouldn't even consider fascists. But they are a crop of

435
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 5: conservatives that are that have the financial and social resources

436
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 5: to be able to go across the country to this,

437
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 5: to this big event, to watch the soon to be

438
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 5: ex president speak like they they have enough capital and

439
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 5: sport to be able to do this, which is very

440
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 5: different than a whole bunch of like broke punks riding

441
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 5: on trains to go protests like halfwaycross the country. Like

442
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 5: these these are two very different social factions.

443
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:41,239
Speaker 2: But yeah, it is. It is.

444
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 5: It is a grouping of conservatives who are able to

445
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 5: financially support going across the country to hear President Trump

446
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 5: speak and then in the moment you realize, oh wow,

447
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 5: we're breaking into Congress.

448
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I think the thing I would say about

449
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 4: that too is like like part of the process of

450
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 4: what fascism is is turning those people from regular conservatives

451
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,479
Speaker 4: into into ground troops. Yeah yeah, yeah, and that's and

452
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 4: that's what's happening here. But but there's a bunch of

453
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 4: the left who like absolutely insist that this was really

454
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 4: the working class because they are chronically incapable of distinguishing

455
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 4: between a large group of white people and the working class.

456
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 2: And these are the people.

457
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 4: Okay, it's not good they keep doing this like they

458
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 4: were doing this with like a bunch of like like

459
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 4: French anti vaxxers. Yeah, there's like a bunch of people

460
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 4: who were convinced like and this is this is one

461
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 4: of the everythings we talked about in this last episode,

462
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 4: Like these people support the Canadian Trucker's convoy, even though

463
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 4: they're just right wingers. The other big example of this

464
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 4: is the Belgian farmers protests. This is huge farm protests

465
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 4: in Belgium that are like a very big car caused

466
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 4: the left on the right, and literally the thing they

467
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 4: are protesting about is that they're incredibly pissed off that

468
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 4: there's environmental regulation to try to get them to not

469
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 4: like dump fertilizer in the fucking rivers. It's like like

470
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 4: that's the kind of thing that they're mad about, Like

471
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 4: they're mad about environmental regulation. They're mad about like like

472
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 4: not being allowed to completely destroy the environment completely. But

473
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,959
Speaker 4: because it's like a large, massive people, there's all these

474
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 4: people who are like, ah, it's the revolution. It's like no,

475
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 4: these guys are like they're small business owners on farms.

476
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, ooh woo, small bean blah blah blah blah.

477
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

478
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 4: One of the products of this is this thing that

479
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 4: becomes now as patriotic socialism. But first, do you know

480
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 4: what else is a product all.

481
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 5: Of the wonderful little snippets of important messages that it

482
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 5: is about to flow right into your brain as you

483
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 5: listen to these ads.

484
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 4: We're back with patriotic socialism. So patriarchic socialism is this

485
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 4: thing that emerges in like I think like late. I

486
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 4: think it's like early twenty twenty. I was too obviously,

487
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 4: I was just gonna admit I was too lazy to

488
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 4: go back and find the first time someone used the term.

489
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 2: Socialist.

490
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 5: You mean yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean it's I mean,

491
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 5: I'm sure those two words have been combined many times.

492
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, like in the modern context. Yeah, there's

493
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 4: a thing from like very like like twenty twenty basically

494
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 4: is when.

495
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 5: It like, yes, this specific ideological strain that we'll be

496
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 5: talking about emerges around twenty twenty.

497
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 4: I think that's fair. Yeah, And it's so patriarchic socialism.

498
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 4: It combines all of the elements that we've talked about already, right,

499
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 4: It takes the nationalism in the homophobia, support for capitalist economies.

500
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 4: But then it makes one crucial move, which is it

501
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 4: flips the direction of the nationalisms. So instead of being

502
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 4: like hardline anti Americans, you're now like hard line pro

503
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 4: American nationalist. Instead of being an anti imperialist who ignores

504
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 4: the war crimes of China and Syria and blah blah blah,

505
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 4: blah Blahia and r Yeah, obviously Russia instead.

506
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 5: Now America is the best.

507
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, like you know, and I mean their line basically

508
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 4: they've adopted this from like an incredibly stupid line that

509
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 4: the American Communist Party took in like the thirties, which

510
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 4: was like, ah, the way we get a revolution in

511
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 4: America is through American nationalism. So we're gonna like post

512
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 4: pictures of us next to Abe Lincoln, and this is

513
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 4: going to make people not hate us, you know. And

514
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 4: you can tell how well this worked by tracking the

515
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,479
Speaker 4: number of people in the Communist Party as they adopt

516
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 4: the strategy in the late thirties and seeing how it plummets.

517
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 4: So you know, winning ideas great, great great moves here.

518
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 4: But okay, so the thing about patriotic socialism is that

519
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 4: it never did that well because it sucks because you

520
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 4: can't There was originally an attempt to pull in people

521
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 4: from the left right, but everyone who looked at this

522
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 4: was like this is lame and sucks, Like why would

523
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 4: I want to get why would I want it? Like

524
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 4: did these people suck? I don't like that, they're weird

525
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 4: American nationalists? Why would anyone be interested in this? And

526
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 4: so what they were in, so that didn't work very well.

527
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 4: The thing they're mostly pulling from is this weird core

528
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 4: of like LaRue Shites and these like very weird third

529
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 4: positionist people. But there's just not that many of them.

530
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 5: I mean, like they definitely the people that were there

531
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 5: were pushing this as like an it's almost like a

532
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 5: memetic ideology in twenty twenty. There was there was some

533
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 5: of them who were more kind of typical like Marxist Latinists,

534
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 5: people who kind of orbited around the writers at Grey Zone.

535
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 5: Like we mentioned in the last episode, we had this

536
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 5: one YouTuber named Peter Coffin who was like like a

537
00:29:59,040 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 5: Marxist YouTuber.

538
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, the guy guy is mostly as for kicking himself

539
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 4: in the balls on live TV.

540
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, well I think he was really one of the

541
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 5: guys to kind of uh popularized patriotic socialism as as

542
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 5: a term, even before people like Kinkle came onto the scene,

543
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 5: which I assume will be getting.

544
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: To show get to that.

545
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, but but yeah, it kind of it kind of

546
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 5: circled around this like Caleb Moppin, Peter Coffin circle of

547
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 5: these sorts of like content creators and writers who were

548
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 5: really into like a classical Marxist theory.

549
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like not but I I yeah, it's like,

550
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: but they were.

551
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 5: From from very like statist yeah, American imial aspective, right.

552
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 5: The thing is like they suck as theorists, right like

553
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 5: and this is this is like a one of the

554
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 5: trends of these people is that they're And this is

555
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 5: why it doesn't take off because like one of the

556
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 5: other guys, he's going to become like a maga communism guy.

557
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 4: Later is this guy named Hawes or Infrared who he's

558
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 4: like the big theory guy is unreader essentially, but yeah,

559
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 4: he's like a twist streamer. I think he's He's stuff

560
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 4: is completely unreadable, like it's it's nonsense, like to the

561
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 4: point where even when this politics gets big and Hinkle

562
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 4: tries to get people to read it, no one will

563
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 4: fucking read it. His own followers won't read it because

564
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 4: it's awful.

565
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 5: I think between like, I don't think that this at

566
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 5: least in my observations of this political subculture. The point

567
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 5: is not to convert people to your politics, because there

568
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 5: really isn't any core political essence of this thing. It's

569
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 5: mostly a visual meme to get eyes on you, because

570
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 5: all these guys that are pushing this are all content creators,

571
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 5: Like it's all a way just to boost your personal

572
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 5: brand and to make people affiliate you with a personal

573
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 5: brand like that. All the guys who are pushing this

574
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 5: really hard. None of them were serious about any kind

575
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 5: of political theory tied to this notion. They were all

576
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 5: plugging their Twitch stream, plugging their YouTube, their new book

577
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 5: that's coming out, like all of it was just to

578
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 5: sell content. That I read on a lot of the

579
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 5: guys that at least initially started pushing this thing as

580
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 5: a as like a meme.

581
00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

582
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 4: But I think the thing that's important about this too, though,

583
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 4: is the original guys were fucking losers, Like this is

584
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 4: why this didn't work. Sten like Coffin starts doing this

585
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 4: because his his a richest previous seventeen grifts have all

586
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 4: fallowed apart.

587
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: He was, He's been through, He's taken.

588
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 4: Every conceivable leftist position and tried to make a brand

589
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 4: around it, and it was just failing.

590
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 2: Right, he just turn into this.

591
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 4: He doesn't work and like him and Moppin and like

592
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 4: the other people in the space like are so unbelievably

593
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 4: uncharismatic and so it just doesn't work.

594
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: The thing about this too right is like the.

595
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 4: Reason it doesn't work partially because these people aren't charismatic,

596
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,959
Speaker 4: and partially it's because they really are obsessed with writing

597
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 4: theory bullshit, like like yeah, like the theory betiety is

598
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 4: completely incoherent, but they're like reading their theory on streams

599
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 4: and shit, and like nobody likes that they need to

600
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 4: produce some theory to make themselves feel legitimate. Yeah, but

601
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 4: like Cos spends all this time fancy about Hegel.

602
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 2: And it's like, does anyone want to list Like no, Like.

603
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 5: I mean, I I do like hearing about Hegel, but

604
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 5: not from Cos.

605
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, like he's like he's also yelling about.

606
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 4: How like there isn't a real left anymore because I'm

607
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 4: like the far right people want to align with Putin.

608
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 4: But into this gap comes Jackson Hinkle. So Hinkle was

609
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 4: just like a nobody. He was some random left Twitter

610
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 4: person with like ten k followers. He like lost a

611
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 4: city council race in ten like he was like he

612
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 4: was a joke. But in twenty twenty he starts to

613
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 4: crack the formula, which is he figures out the same

614
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 4: thing the gray zone people do, which is that you

615
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 4: can't pull from the left right. If you want to

616
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 4: actually build a large scale brand, you have to pull.

617
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: From the right.

618
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 4: And so he's one of the people who first gets

619
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 4: really big into this thing called maga communism, which is

620
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 4: like kind of a it's like kind of a troll ideologies,

621
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 4: like mostly a troll ideology, Like it's.

622
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is meme based. Yeah.

623
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 4: Basically, what they've done is, like they've pulled together is

624
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 4: an attempt to build an ideology based on pure authoritarianism,

625
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 4: Like it's based on like liking both Trump and Xijianping

626
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 4: and Putin at the same time, because all of them

627
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 4: are powerful leaders.

628
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: Who like want to restore their nation or whatever.

629
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 4: And you know, but like the actual content of it

630
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 4: is kind of nothing. But but what Hinkle does, and

631
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 4: this is the thing he does that's very smart, is

632
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 4: that he's not an insufferable theory nerd. He's actually way

633
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 4: less smart than Hawes. But because he's not smart, he

634
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 4: kind of half stumbles and half figures out into how

635
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 4: you make content for the right, which is just incredibly

636
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 4: simple propaganda.

637
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 2: Right.

638
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 4: You reach tweet right wing social media people, you make

639
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 4: posts with very very simple slogans and like sentences with

640
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 4: like words that don't go above two syllables and get

641
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 4: you get in every single time or right wing grievance

642
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 4: thing happens, you just get in and you just keep

643
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 4: cranking out indescribable amounts of content every single day. He

644
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 4: does this on his YouTube channel. He does this on

645
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 4: his Twitter. He now has two point three million Twitter followers,

646
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 4: most of which he has made in the past two months.

647
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And he was on you know, and he's not.

648
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 4: He's now taken like he's done one of these right

649
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 4: wing media tours, like he's been on Carlson, He's been

650
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 4: on fucking Info Wars, He's been on OEMs, the One

651
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 4: American Network. And part of the reason this works is

652
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 4: because right wingers love to find like a nominal leftists

653
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 4: who agrees with them. And Hinkel, you know, he gets

654
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 4: into argument with people sometimes, like when he was on

655
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 4: Alex Jones there, Alex Jones is like, what do you

656
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 4: mean you're a communists?

657
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: Like what the fuck?

658
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 4: And Hinkle's putting out some bullshit about why are like

659
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 4: communism is when no globalists He's just.

660
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 5: He's like, in effect, they are doing a form of

661
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 5: national socialism, which which relies on anti Semitism and this

662
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 5: notion of casting globalists as Jewish Zionists who are secretly

663
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 5: controlling all of industry and we're gonna give the real.

664
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: Power back to the average regular.

665
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 5: Working man, which is it's it's he can frame it

666
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 5: as communism, but like it is, it is. It is

667
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 5: just a form of Nazi theory. Like that is what

668
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 5: he fundamentally operates on.

669
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 4: And he's he's interesting because his she is he has gone,

670
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 4: you know, as as bad as the like transphobia stuff

671
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 4: in last episode is right like that that is like

672
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 4: an average like COVID grifter thing he has.

673
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 5: He has he has his own own share of transphobia

674
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 5: as well.

675
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, well.

676
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 4: He is way further right than anyone who's ever come

677
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 4: out of the left to like do this kind of

678
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 4: thing has ever gone. He is, like so there's a

679
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 4: video of him arguing with a guy named sneak.

680
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 5: O and who is just a twitch line is just

681
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 5: as it is, a twitch streamer who aligns himself with

682
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 5: a whole bunch of kind of influencers for young usually

683
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 5: white men, Like yeah, he's like close, He's like Andrew

684
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 5: Tate it's it's it's just, yeah, he's a fucking twitch

685
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 5: influencer who courts unbelievable misogynist young man.

686
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 2: That's the basic of it, you know.

687
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 4: I mean, he's he's kind of he's gone to the

688
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 4: point where he's he's not quite in the same circles

689
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 4: as Nick Flentes, but that's largely because Flentes is like

690
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 4: a hardline Christian fascist and Sneko's like, is like a

691
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 4: Muslim fascist in the same.

692
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 2: Wow like fat he's like he's like a far far

693
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 2: right wing Muslim in the same vein is like, I don't,

694
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 2: I don't.

695
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 5: I don't think Sneko is really id politically driven, like

696
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 5: like like consciously so he's he's he's just a he's

697
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 5: just an asshole who figured out that, hey, if you

698
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 5: say certain things, you can get a yeah, twelve year

699
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 5: employees to watch your stuff all the time. Like that's

700
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 5: that's it's really, it's really I think that the core

701
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 5: of of of his of him, I hate politics.

702
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 2: He sucks so much.

703
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 4: But like so he go goes on his show and

704
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 4: he spends the entire show trying to convey Sneko that

705
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 4: Hitler was gay and that the reason and and snek

706
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 4: Go's like, well, but Hitler destroyed the the Mangis Herochelt

707
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 4: Institute for Sexual Research, And sneak Go's like, well that

708
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 4: was a good thing. And Hinkel's response is no, no, no,

709
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 4: all the Nazis were gay in trans so they had

710
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 4: to destroy the Institute of Sexual Research to cover up

711
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 4: the fact, like to hide the evidence that they were

712
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 4: all gay in trans Like this is a level of

713
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,879
Speaker 4: like homophobia and like transphobia that is like so far

714
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 4: beyond the like normal shit that like and you know,

715
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 4: and and and this, and like even Sneko is like,

716
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 4: why are you talking about?

717
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 5: But I just can't take anything. Hinkel says as like

718
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 5: a literal thing he believes.

719
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: He doesn't believe. He believes that everything is. Yeah.

720
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 4: He is the pure distillation of a man who believes

721
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 4: in nothing. Yeah, Like like he is. She's not even

722
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 4: a purse, he's not even a human being. He is

723
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 4: just a content mill. Yeah, that's that's all. He He's

724
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 4: just a brand. But what he's discovered, the way he's

725
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 4: he's decided to build his brand is by basically out

726
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 4: trying to he's doing. Okay, there was a there was

727
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 4: a weird maga communism thing.

728
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 2: He does that.

729
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 4: Less now because it's it's outlived usefulness and a lot

730
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 4: of this is now it's now it's easier to be

731
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:22,760
Speaker 4: a U a Palestine. Uh yeah, like and quote unquote

732
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 4: anti's Zionist influencer. In reality, he just is extremely anti Semitic.

733
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 4: Like this is that is his actual politics. Yeah, let's

734
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 4: talk about Well, okay, she's like it's genuinely unclear to

735
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 4: me whether he personally is really anti Semitic, Like I

736
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 4: don't know, he might be. I mean, like it doesn't matter.

737
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 4: Like that's the thing, Like he's.

738
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 5: The way that he talks about it, the way he

739
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 5: talks about how how how Zionists.

740
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: Like rule the world.

741
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 5: It's it's, it's it's you can just like about that

742
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 5: until Protocols of the Elders.

743
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like so this is the thing, like like Hinkle

744
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 4: Hink is not really at this point, like they're like

745
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 4: there there is no person behind it, right, He's just

746
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaker 4: purely a right wing mill that regurgitates.

747
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 2: Stuff and the stuff.

748
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 4: And the way that he figured out you could do

749
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 4: this is by trying to outflank the traditional hard right

750
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 4: on anti Semitism. So let's let's let's let's take a

751
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 4: look at like exactly the kind of anti Semitic shit

752
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 4: that he's on, because he is just straight up in

753
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 4: anti Semite, right. This is not a like think I'm

754
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,720
Speaker 4: saying because of this palsized stuff, so grant the Like last

755
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 4: week the trailer for Grand Theft Auto six came out, Yeah,

756
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 4: and there's like a bunch of women tworking in it

757
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 4: and like having a good time and like wearing bikinis

758
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 4: and stuff, and there's like this enormous, like really weird,

759
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 4: incredibly pathetic right wing like thing about it, saying that

760
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 4: it's like anti Christian and it's like spreading poorn to

761
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 4: children and teaching people to do crimes, and that like

762
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 4: shooting cops is bad and that no one should ever

763
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 4: play it, and because this is like the current right

764
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 4: wing media panic, Inkle starts tweeting about it. And his

765
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 4: tweet is, so this starts with an Israeli flag, and

766
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 4: it starts with like that like siren thing that people

767
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 4: post when they're about to do an alert quote, why

768
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 4: are the Zionists all capitalized at Rockstar Games releasing this

769
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 4: all caps sexualized video game for children in America? Get

770
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 4: hashtag ban GTA six.

771
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 2: This is also in all caps.

772
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 4: Trending right now. So this is straight up neo Nazi ship, right,

773
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 4: this is neo Nazis shit about the Jews conspiracy right,

774
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 4: Like that's yeah, yeah, it's like, this is a right

775
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 4: of neo Nazi shit. And he's been trying to use

776
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 4: the fact that he is more anti Semitic than openly

777
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 4: anti Semitic, even than so even than someone like Elon Musk,

778
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 4: right sure, and he's been trying to use this as

779
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,720
Speaker 4: a way to basically steal their bases.

780
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: So like two days ago when this goes up, three.

781
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,839
Speaker 4: Really recently, there was this giant like call like there's

782
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 4: this giant like Twitter space thing. They had Alex Jones,

783
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 4: Elon Musk, Andrew Trey and Vivik Ramaswami in it, and

784
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 4: Kink just like keeps asking Elon Musk about whether he's

785
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 4: gonna turn on the starlink like internet stuff or Palestine,

786
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 4: and these people basically tell him to shut up and

787
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 4: like kick him off.

788
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: But then he does that.

789
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 4: He starts doing this like giant like I've been censored

790
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 4: like media thing about it, and what he's doing here

791
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 4: this is thing he does constantly he's trying to take

792
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 4: the basis from people like Alex Jones, people like Elon

793
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 4: Musk and people from Edu Tate who wants more open

794
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 4: anti Semitism. Right, Like, these people are anti.

795
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,919
Speaker 5: St He's trying to flank them, you can say, quote

796
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 5: unquote from the right. But like at this point the

797
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 5: right less spectrum kind of resolves into meaningless uh mambo jumbo.

798
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 4: But yeah, he's trying to He's I mean, he's just

799
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 4: a fascist, right, He's he's trying to he's trying to

800
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 4: play like the anti.

801
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 2: Semite flame from the anti Semitics thing.

802
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, and you know, and but but he's he's

803
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 4: figured out this is the thing that actually pushed him

804
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 4: really into the mainstream. Is he figured out a way

805
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 4: to do cover for this that also lets him get

806
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 4: a bunch of like attention and clicks and stuff from

807
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 4: the left, which is and also like a lot of

808
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 4: support from Palestinians. And we're going to talk about that

809
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 4: in a second.

810
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 2: People who don't.

811
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 5: Understand who he actually is, or maybe if they do,

812
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 5: they just don't really care because because it doesn't affect them,

813
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 5: because he is currently possibly the most influential person talking

814
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 5: about this conflict right now, like like at least on

815
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 5: the Internet, like his his his impressions is larger than

816
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 5: anyone else. His tweets get read aloud in newsrooms across

817
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 5: across the country, like he is. He has succeeded in

818
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 5: grifting off of off of this conflict to promote his

819
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 5: personal brand in almost an almost unparalleled way, Like there's

820
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 5: never been someone who's done this as successfully as Hinkled

821
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 5: as for any other conflict. It is, it is, it

822
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 5: is quite quite quite surprising that there's just this one

823
00:43:55,600 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 5: guy sitting sitting on his phone in America has has

824
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 5: been this successful by essentially just tweeting NonStop.

825
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like to put this in perspective, so like he

826
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 4: has Alex Jones got banned and that kind of like

827
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 4: limited his coverage, but he has more followers on Twitter

828
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 4: of Alex Jones. Alex Jones has just been on band

829
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 4: form Twitter, like he has more followers at Alex Jones.

830
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 4: Like that's that's how And it's not even just followers too,

831
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 4: it's it's how much his posts are seen and circulated

832
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 4: like he Yeah, there was he was for almost I

833
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 4: think the most of the month of October he was

834
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 4: person with the highest digital impressions on the platform, like

835
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 4: he yea, his stuff was being seen by more people

836
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,439
Speaker 4: than anyone else, like he yeah, So let's talk about

837
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 4: what that stuff actually is. It's large. It's like it's

838
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 4: a combination of him just retweeting other people, stealing other

839
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 4: people's like videos of like press conferences from the Camas.

840
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 4: Most of it is dead babies, like it's a bunch,

841
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 4: it's a bunch of dead babies. It's a bunch of

842
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 4: dead Palestinians, just over and over and over and over again.

843
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 4: And then sometimes tweets of like ceasefire, like how cand

844
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:00,959
Speaker 4: Zionists do this.

845
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 5: One of the things about misinformation, mischaracterizing attacks events, like

846
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 5: a lot of others basic stuff like.

847
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 4: It's yeah, and one of one of his tricks and

848
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 4: that this is this has been a thing for these

849
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 4: kind of like these margialonist people for a long time,

850
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 4: is spreading spreading pictures that are actually from the Syrians

851
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 4: of a war features from Palestine, which they do constantly,

852
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 4: and this, you know, and like one of the things

853
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 4: that we haven't sort of hushed on yet is like

854
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 4: yet he so one of the things that's happened with

855
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 4: him is because he's the biggest person tweeting about Palestine.

856
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 4: His like a lot of his tweets about Palestine are

857
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 4: translated into Arabic and they're posted all over like Arabic

858
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 4: Instagram of Arabic Twitter, Like it's like they're they're spent

859
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 4: fucking everywhere. And those people, you know, either like don't

860
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 4: know who he is, right, because they're only seeing his

861
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 4: Palestine stuff, right, They're not seeing his like raving about

862
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 4: how GTA six is anti Christian, right, They're only seeing

863
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:02,439
Speaker 4: that stuff. And this has made his work enormously more

864
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 4: popular than actual Palestinian journalists and intellectuals. And this is

865
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 4: one of the really grim parts about this, which is

866
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 4: that you know, those those Palestinian journalists are just getting

867
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 4: fucking killed all the time, Like every single day, another

868
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 4: Palestinian journalist gets fucking killed, Like more and more Palestinian

869
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 4: intellectuals are killed. And as these people die and Hinkle

870
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 4: exploits their deaths for more fucking content, the number of

871
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 4: people talking about this with any kind of platform shrinks

872
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,879
Speaker 4: and shrinks and shrinks. And he's been able to fill

873
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 4: the void left by the fact that the Israelis have

874
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 4: been fucking murdering all these journalists with just his own

875
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 4: fucking drifting brands. And he's able to do this because

876
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 4: you know, Hinkel is incredibly safe, just fucking living it

877
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 4: up in the US, while the people who's suffering he's

878
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,399
Speaker 4: exploiting are getting fucking murdered in the streets. And he's

879
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:00,879
Speaker 4: making tons of money doing this.

880
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 2: Enormous amounts of money.

881
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I don't know, I don't I don't really

882
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 4: have I don't have a fucking solution to this. Like

883
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 4: he's he's effectively just figured out how to completely game this.

884
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 2: System in a way that hasn't been done before.

885
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 5: I think part of this is, like with the way

886
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 5: Twitter's content moderation is working now, Gore can we spread

887
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 5: around in ways that it didn't used to, which is

888
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 5: a lot more emotionally gripping for a lot of people.

889
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 5: So he's able to to do a whole Buntu quote

890
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 5: tea quote tweets on extremely graphic and upsetting images which

891
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 5: draw draw more people to his platform. He's he's he's

892
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 5: just like figured out a specific thing, like he's he's

893
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 5: been trying to do this for a few years with

894
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 5: very with various types of like you know, conflicts or

895
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 5: like little little like bits that he like tries to

896
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 5: tries to do this media strategy thing on and this

897
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 5: this one has happened to work. There there was there

898
00:47:55,360 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 5: was a certain confluence of events that allowed him to

899
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 5: to get get platformed by many, many, many unwitting people.

900
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 5: And at this point, deplatforming is not even an option,

901
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 5: Like it's it's like, you can't you can't deplatform someone

902
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 5: with three million followers. Really, that just isn't. Yeah that

903
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 5: he's ship too, Like yeah, yeah, it just it just it.

904
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 5: That's why he just doesn't even follow anymore.

905
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess, I guess.

906
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 4: One last thing I want to say about this is like,

907
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 4: and he's he's been incredibly successful at leveraging, like at

908
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 4: leveraging the fact that he posts not not even good

909
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 4: pro palisine content, right sucks, ass right, it's but he's

910
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 4: been incredibly successful leveraging that to use his defense against

911
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 4: any claims of anti Semitism. And this sucks because he's,

912
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 4: you know, he's he's effectively using he's using Palestinians as

913
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 4: a human shield and then fucking climbing over their corpses

914
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 4: in order to build a brand. While that also complaining

915
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 4: about the degeneracy of seeing a whole bunch of non

916
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 4: white people having a beach party in GTA five, right, Like,

917
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 4: it's like, it's it's not like he actually cares about

918
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 4: the lives of Palestinians being killed because he's complaining about

919
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 4: black people in GTA five. Like it's not like, come on, like,

920
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,760
Speaker 4: it's it's he is He's just an anti Semitic fascist.

921
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 4: This is yeah, this is very very clear. I think

922
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 4: I think the thing that can be done is we

923
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 4: like we need to like these people can't be allowed

924
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 4: to fucking get their start here, Like we can't be

925
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 4: having a bunch of fucking transphobes and anti semis. We

926
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 4: can't be having all of these fucking homophobic right wing

927
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 4: nationalists like in leftist basis. They just like they can't

928
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 4: be here because if if there had actually been, you know,

929
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 4: a kind of sustained effort to get these people fucking

930
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 4: out before before they pulled all of this shit, we

931
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 4: wouldn't be here right now. But that wasn't done. People

932
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 4: were people were just completely okay with having all of

933
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 4: these right wingers just being there because are the same

934
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 4: states that they do, and because of that, we're here.

935
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, I really only see that on like

936
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 5: the heavily communist and statist contingent of the left right,

937
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 5: Like these types of people aren't super popular among most

938
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 5: like social democrats. At least recently, there's been kind of

939
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 5: a harder divide, at least from my observation between like

940
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:29,399
Speaker 5: SoC dems, between like socialists libertarian socialists, and the people

941
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 5: who are like hardlined. I am a Marxist Leninist. I

942
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 5: am affiliated with these Marxi Leninist organizations, and those are

943
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 5: the sorts of organizations that these sorts of guys kind

944
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 5: of almost like prey on to like gain followers and

945
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 5: gain some.

946
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 4: Poy well, and I would say this, like, this is

947
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 4: like those groups like like the PSL for examples. PSL

948
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 4: is one example, ses right, and like they also have

949
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 4: a there's a whole bunch of horror stories about them

950
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 4: chasing down abusers. Like I know people who they liked

951
00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 4: a tweet that was talking about how the ps CELL

952
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 4: had had fucked up a a sexual assault investigation and

953
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 4: they were dragged because they had liked to tweet about this.

954
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 4: They were dragged in front of the PSL Central Committee

955
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 4: where Gloria Rivera, They're fucking like eternal presidential candidates started

956
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 4: doing a bunch of fucking transphobia shit and then covering

957
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 4: it with the exact same gray zone like I'm a

958
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 4: woman of color thing, you know. But these groups were

959
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 4: like on they were on the edge of Collie like

960
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 4: basically becoming an non relevant because they've been supporting Russia

961
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 4: during the war and Ukraine for this whole time. But

962
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 4: then Palestine exactly is the one issue they're actually like,

963
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 4: is the one issue that their stance is like, you know,

964
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 4: tolerable to the general populace on it. So they've all

965
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 4: all of these people have been using Palestine. All these

966
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 4: people who've been.

967
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 2: Fucking pivoting harder, harder and harder.

968
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 4: Right for years and years and years now have been

969
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 4: have like have been exploiting the exploiting the fucking genocide

970
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,280
Speaker 4: and Palestine in order to fucking get all their leftist

971
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:55,959
Speaker 4: clicks back.

972
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 2: And it's utterly grotesque.

973
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's That's what I've got about this.

974
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 3: It is.

975
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 2: It is certainly upsetting. Yeah, Free Palestine, Fuck the grifters.

976
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 1: It could happen here as a production of Cool Zone Media.

977
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,720
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website

978
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

979
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts,

980
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: you can find sources for It could happen here, Updated

981
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:30,240
Speaker 1: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.