WEBVTT - Queer Joy Isn't Easy 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.720 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:19.200 Me your Girl. Daniel Moody recording from the home bunker, Folks, 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:23.200 I am very excited about today's episode. For five or 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.760 six years, I can't even think about how much time 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:31.160 has passed. And let me be one hundred percent sure, 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:36.199 because you know, time is I don't even know what 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:40.760 do they say? Time is a construct? But for a 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:45.120 really long time, let's see, for six years, for six years, 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.839 I just I had to do the math. For six years, 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:54.520 Andrew Marcello has been the producer extraordinaire behind WOKF, behind 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:58.720 WOKF when WOKF was that serious, then when it moved 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:03.040 to DNR and d CP, and now with me still 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:09.560 at iHeart and I can't tell you how much of 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:17.440 a pleasure and just an extraordinary opportunity to work with 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:21.520 someone who is just as passionate about the topics that 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:25.039 you cover, about the work that you do as you 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.440 do right. And it isn't often to have a colleague 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:34.160 who just gets it and gets you. And that's how 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:37.520 I have felt about Andrew for the last six years. 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:39.960 In the work that we've done to build woke F 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:45.039 into a brand, into a show into something that has, 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:49.960 you know, a footprint and robust commentary on the world 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.800 that we are living in. And so today I'm very 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:58.160 happy to welcome Andrew back on Mike to have a 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:05.280 conversation about what pride means to him this year. And 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:10.720 you know what, how do we we at WOKF have 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.600 made it our theme this month to say you can't 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.799 ban queer joy, But we also recognize that being joyful 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:23.080 holding joy in this moment of great despair and stress 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.600 a job in and of itself. And so we get 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:30.440 into a very real conversation about how we hold these things, 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:34.359 how we hold the complications of this moment, and give 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.680 some advice and some thoughts on how we can all 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:41.480 do our part to help things feel a little bit 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.079 better and look a little bit better. So coming up 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:55.320 next my conversation with my producer extraordinaire Andrew Marshella. Folks, 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:59.120 I am so excited to welcome to the show. This 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:02.000 is not and it's weird to welcome in front of 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.960 the camera, I guess on the actual microphone, not to 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:10.440 the show, which is my producer extraordinaire of WOKF for 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.639 the last Oh my God, five six years one does 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:18.760 not even know Andrew Marcello, who is the person that 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:23.760 makes wok F tick and happen, and it's here and 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:28.480 queer with us as we wrap up Pride. You can't 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:32.320 ban queer joy on WOKF. Andrew, Welcome in front of 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:32.680 the mic. 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:34.480 Yes, it's good to see you. 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:39.880 It is good to see you. So all month long, 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:44.160 we've had amazing people come on and talk about Pride 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.920 and they're feeling about Pride in this season, and we've 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:52.480 made it our you know, theme to talk about joy 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.520 and how difficult it is right how difficult it is 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.320 to find joy during this time. So I want to 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:04.840 ask you, how has Pride landed with you this season? 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.480 How do you have you felt about Pride this season? 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:17.120 I think to start, I would say that when we 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.760 were just to pull the curtain back a little bit 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.400 for the audience, when we were discussing the theme for 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.840 this month. You know, last year, if you were not 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.000 a okay if listener back then, or you know, if 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.040 you recall last year, our theme was Pride as a 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:36.800 Riot because at the time there was a lot of 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:40.719 what we referred to as rainbow capitalism and just you know, 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:44.320 literally like banks and all these institutions putting up rainbows 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.520 for you know, on June first, and then on June 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:48.480 thirtieth they go away and everything goes back to the 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:52.320 status quo. So, you know, at the time, it was like, 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:55.479 let's remember that pride started as like a fight for 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:57.520 our rights, and now here we are a year later 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:01.000 and we don't have to be reminded. And so I 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:07.760 think the idea of emphasizing queer joy was great and 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:12.000 admirable in its intent, but the not But at the 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.440 same time, the unfortunate reality is that we are fighting 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:17.479 a lot, and so if anything, it should be a 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.680 reminder that, like queer joy is a necessity. And like 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:23.200 you know, some people have said this month that queer 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:26.480 joy can also be a tool for fighting, and I 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.960 believe in that as well. But it's also this year 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:38.839 strikingly difficult two be joyous in the face of everything. 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:46.280 Yeah, I just feel I feel you, and I feel similarly, 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:48.920 I feel like you know, I long for the days 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:54.040 where the conversation was about the critique of the corporatization 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.919 of pride and not the erasure of pride. And I 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:01.040 feel like we have now moved back into a space 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.840 where we are being forced back into the closet in 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:08.440 so many ways, and or just targets, actual literal targets 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:12.200 being placed on the backs of trans people in this 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:16.040 country and trans youth in particular. And I wanted to 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:21.159 get a sense from you. You know, you have been 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:28.200 a part of a time where you've both witnessed marriage 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.359 equality happened, were old enough to like be like, oh 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.600 my god, look at this marriage equality it has happened, 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:40.040 and then also watched the fierce backlash that has happened 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:44.120 in less than a decade after that momentous day. And 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:48.200 I want to know, like, for somebody who you know 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:54.040 has witnessed this at a younger age than myself, like 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:59.120 how that happened? Like what are all those emotions of like, oh, 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.720 it's possible. I guess it's not like, oh, we're making 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:04.040 feel like it's not possible. 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:08.240 So I definitely wouldn't say, like, I to be clear 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:12.120 for the audience, I'm thirty. I turned thirty within the 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:16.400 last year. I and a lot of people who are 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.720 around like my mindset and my age, we still believe 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:24.040 that a better world is possible. But we've been slinging 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:28.200 the phrase a better world as possible since twenty fifteen, 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:32.240 and I'll be honest, compared to how we felt in 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:36.320 twenty fifteen, it's a lot harder to feel that a 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.400 better world is possible. I still want to feel that. 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.440 It's not just a desire to feel that way. I 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.880 can't possibly not believe that a better world than this 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:48.960 is not only possible theoretically, because like, how can a 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:52.680 better world than this not be possible, but also that 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:55.960 a better world than this is possible, a better society, 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.360 a better America, whatever. But I really think a better 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:02.679 world than this is possib in reality, but it takes 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:06.080 so much, And that's that conversation is like so beyond 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:07.840 I think the scope of what we're talking about today 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.160 and the scope of my own knowledge and expertise. But 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.520 absolutely I believe a better world is possible. But it's 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:16.960 I think if we had started on the path to 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.160 a better world eight years ago compared to now, the 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.280 fight would have been a lot less difficult. And I 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:23.800 feel that a lot of ways. I feel that in 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.640 regard to climate change and all this other stuff. But yes, unfortunately, 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:29.920 you know, you said a decade. I even feel like, 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.080 you know, maybe five years, because I don't even feel 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.520 it was, because everything was, but I don't even feel 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:37.280 like it was a big focus of the Trump administration. 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:41.280 It's right, you, Yeah, that's true, that's true. No goad. 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.360 But but you've called this out, and I'm glad you 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.600 you mentioned trans people specifically, because I don't in this 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.920 conversation when a center just myself, I am a pan sexual, 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:54.480 CIS white man right now in a hetero relationship, even 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:58.160 though I can be in relationships with people of any gender, 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:03.240 but I'm I'm sis and the whatever I'm experiencing, whatever 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:07.920 emotions I'm experiencing, is nothing compared to the oppression and 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:12.400 the repression that and the depression to be frank that 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:16.320 trans people are facing around the country. And I do 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.080 think that that sort of started to be a focus 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.920 of maybe not like the Trump administration, but certainly the 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.880 right wing movement. And this is something where I think 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:27.840 the US is often a leader around the world and hate, 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:29.920 but I feel like this is something where like maybe 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.000 there was trans not maybe there was transphobia in the US, absolutely, 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.320 and it's sort of it. It diminished from if you 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.800 think about like the nineties and the two thousands, comedy 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.880 movies and the things that were like to punchlines. We 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:45.600 still have progress from that time, but we had definitely 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.480 like progressed. We weren't in that society anymore. And that's 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:50.920 a good thing, and for some people that was not 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:52.760 a good thing. But what I'm trying to get at is, 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.440 like I think, when this stuff that we saw coming 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:59.079 out of Great Britain and the UK, and like I'll 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.200 call them by their name because they're proud of it now, 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.720 TERFs the trans exclusionary radical feminists who shouldn't like that 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.199 term came from Tumblr because at the time that was 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.960 people who like were in the radical feminist movement, which 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:15.040 is a fringe of a fringe. And then also those 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:19.160 people were radical feminists who excluded trans women. That is 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:21.680 all that turf, And now like turf is almost like 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.439 euphemistic to refer to anyone who's transphobic. You don't have 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:26.839 to be a feminist, you don't have to be a 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.560 radical feminist. If you hate trans women, you're a So 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:33.319 that's trans misogyny, that's not terfism, yep. And you should 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:35.560 call things by their name. And I'm not like calling 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:37.880 you out. I'm just saying, like I'm on a big 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:39.880 stream of consciousness. Now, there was so much I wanted 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:40.640 to say. 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.840 No, but I mean, I but I think that it's Look, one, 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:46.720 you brought up a couple of really important things. I 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.120 think it's really interesting that during the four years of 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.400 the Trump administration, for as horrendous as it was right 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:57.640 for people of color, for undocumented people, for you know, 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:01.719 for a whole for you know, our national security, all 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:06.160 of these things, the crowning, you know, jewel of the 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:11.720 Trump administration was not to go after the LGBTQ community 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:15.280 Like that was not what Donald Trump spent the last 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.600 the four years of his administration doing and so for me. 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:22.080 But he's doing it. He's doing it now in order 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:27.800 to keep pace with the other Republicans, namely Ron DeSantis 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:30.760 out of Florida, who has made it right, who has 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:35.680 made it his like his entree into politics in a 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:37.680 real way. Look how big and bad I am. Look 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:40.880 how tough I am to take on this marginalized community 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.800 and be as cruel as possible. Look, I can be 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.760 cruel too, Right, He needed a target because when Donald 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.800 Trump came down the escalator, he said, my target is 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:53.480 Mexicans and Muslims, and you know, and these people of color. 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.120 Rond Desant is like, oh, that was taken, so I 0:11:56.480 --> 0:12:00.560 got to find another group that I can target and right, 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:04.000 So I think that that is really interesting, but also 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.520 a throwback to the nineteen eighties, to the Save Our 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:12.400 Children campaign, to all of the things that this set 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:17.480 of people white Evangelical Christians were doing in the eighties. 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:22.760 They've just remixed it for the twenty first century. And 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.600 when I think about that, I think about everything that 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.200 is old is always new again if you refuse to 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.040 teach history and you refuse to create guardrails to make 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.880 sure that those things can't come back and don't come back. 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.920 And I just you know, you said that you like 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:43.400 remain hopeful in terms of wanting to believe that we 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.079 can do better than what we are doing right now. 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.000 And I swear to God if I didn't believe that, 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.480 I wouldn't get out of bed. However, do you what 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:56.640 are your feelings about the generations that preceded you and 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:02.000 the mistakes that were made to not guard and ensure 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.280 that we weren't going to continue to backslide every time 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:06.520 we made a bit of progress. 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:12.040 That's a big question, because as you were talking and 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.160 I actually wanted to address this before too, because you 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.760 asked me a question previously, and I thought about so 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:19.960 many things when you were asking me that. So I 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.160 kind of want to go back to like my own 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.800 story just really quickly, because I was born in the 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:27.800 early nineties and I grew up in this sort of 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.840 like post Reagan slash hw Bush. Like Clinton was a 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.680 very post Reagan president. I feel that, you know, having 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.120 learned American history, the Clinton years were sort of a 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:42.600 post Reagan society and through pros and cons of that, 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.880 but socially, you know, my uncle is gay, and that 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.320 was the era of don't ask, don't tell, and I 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.760 think the don't ask, don't tell policy in the military 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:54.800 kind of set a tone socially at least for what 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:57.840 was going on in my white suburban world. Because my 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.160 uncle had a domestic partner. They lived in a house 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:05.160 together and had two dogs, and it like so I 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.040 would ask, you know, is uncle Tom married? Are they 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:10.439 are the two of them married? And I would get 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:12.240 told no. They would tell me, as a child to 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:16.680 my face, that that my uncle's domestic partner was not 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.880 his husband, which it was true, but like you know 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.480 what I mean, and they at a certain point when 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.920 I learned more, it became he's not gay, which was 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:28.920 a lie. They were lying to me as a child. 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.360 And so I think about like when people say things 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:32.840 like how am I going to talk teachers? How am 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:34.080 I going to tell my children? How am I going 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.680 to explain this to my children? It's the explanation, isn't 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:38.280 the problem? You just don't want your kids to know? 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:41.160 And we're going back to that. And I see so 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:42.920 much of that, and then we went through the Bush 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.240 years and all this other stuff. But ultimately a society 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.160 I alluded to, like you know, transphobia in movies, and 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:50.160 I think just in general as a society, you know, 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.560 we stopped using the f slur. There were things that 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.400 were progress, and now I feel that progress is being 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:58.800 clawed back, and maybe even to an era that I 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.480 didn't exist, which is scary, like to think about the 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:04.320 desire to go back to like the Reagan era, or 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:09.520 even on like abortion rights, you know, back further like they. 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.640 But but to address your direct question, which is how 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:18.920 do I feel about the previous generations, it's complicated because 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.160 I tend to think that like people on a on 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.920 a on a micro scale, on an individual scale don't 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.840 have a lot of power. And I think there was 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:36.800 a lot of institutional uh erosion of the power of 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:40.840 the people in the decades before I was born. And 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.880 I don't entirely think of that as society's fault. I'm 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:45.920 sure you know, people were voted into power, there were 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.640 desires that voted in people into power. I blame really 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.080 those people, the people whose desire it was to take 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.440 society backwards. It's hard for me to fault people in general, 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.560 because you know, some people were beaten down. Some they 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.600 they you know, the move in Philadelphia. It's not like 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.280 some people weren't trying the Black Panthers. There's stuff that 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.360 people were doing and they really got beaten down by society, 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.400 even like in my lifetime the free speech zones during 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.520 the Iraq War protests, And it's easy to it's easy 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.680 to be a younger person, either who was alive and 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:17.600 young at the time, or who maybe even wasn't alive 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:19.800 at the time during the Iraq War and look back 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:21.000 at that and be like, well, how did people let 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.280 that happen? How did people let their First Amendment rights 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:24.920 get taken away? How did it get reduced to a 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:27.240 punchline on the rest of development, and it's like that 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.040 wasn't you know, there was a combination of factors that 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.960 led to that. It's hard for me to blame the 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.480 populace for getting whipped up in Iraq War hysteria after 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.760 a national traumatizing event. People took advantage of nine to 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.840 eleven and used that to sell the populace on this 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.360 horrible ideology that was already in green from the Reagan 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.120 years and not He Man, G I Joe and all 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:55.120 that bowl crap, and you know that carried through to 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:56.960 the nineties, and this whole idea that the military are 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.280 heroes and the police are heroes and everybody's good guys, 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.360 Like we're just as a society coming like a mainstream 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:05.240 society coming around to the idea that, like, maybe the 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.560 police aren't the good guys, Like that is a mainstream 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.240 idea in maybe like the last four years. So it 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.000 is really hard for me to fault people in the 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:15.679 past for not breaking out of their mental bubbles. You know, 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.400 I once went off on my grandma, bless her when 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.159 when she was still around and I was full of 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.600 piss and vinegar in my college punk rock years, and 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:24.960 I really went off on her and I was like, 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:26.120 what did. 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:26.600 You all do? 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:28.040 What have you done? 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:29.160 What have you done? 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:31.520 And she was like, you know, she was mortified at me. 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:33.080 She was really upset, and she was like, I voted 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:33.480 for John F. 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:33.960 Kennedy. 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.800 I was doing all these things. I really tried, and 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:41.640 it's hard for me to fault individuals. It's really the systematic. 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.800 Yeah, yeah, but I think but I think that that's right, right, 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.240 because you have a lot of and I'm thinking about 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:50.879 gen Z and I'm thinking about the alpha generation coming 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.760 behind them that are looking at their parents and their 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.719 grandparents generations and they're like, you were giving us a 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.199 planet that will be out of natural resources, air that 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:04.600 we won't be able to breathe, water that we won't 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.040 be able to drink, that will then be sold to us, right, 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:08.920 that we won't be able to afford because we don't 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:12.720 have jobs because of you know, the climate of capitalism 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.119 and greed that you all have bought into. Right, So 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:19.399 like there is yeah, and it's natural to have and 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.560 it's right. I think that it's righteous. Right, it is 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.560 it is righteous anger to be like when you had 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:30.560 the opportunity, not again, individuals, right, but when the collective 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:35.360 has the opportunity to make change. It's like, it's how 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:38.240 I feel right now as I look back on the 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:42.399 Obama years, and I think, wow, I really was a 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:45.040 part of this collective that thought that we made it. 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:49.520 I really like got super complacent and thought that the 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.800 sky's the limit from here. It did not occur to me. 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:57.000 And I'm a fucking student of history and politics that like, 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.800 oh no, the white lash, the backlash, all of it 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:04.640 was coming right and it was actually happened happening concurrently. 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:11.240 I don't know for you, Andrew, I will ask, like 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:14.359 I talk about this on the show all the time, 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.359 about how I try and hold on to joy, about 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:23.440 how I try and center self care and emotional wellbeing 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:31.320 in a time where anxiety and depression are so high. 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:37.000 I mean, the amount of people that young people and 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.640 older people that became medicated during the pandemic and beyond, 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.200 I think went up like I don't want to say, 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.720 but it was like over half of the population. It 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:50.359 went up in percentage in terms of In terms of that, 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:53.720 I talk about the fact that I'm in therapy and 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.720 have been for many years, and thank God, because I 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:58.800 don't know how I get through this time. So how 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:04.400 do you center your self care? What does that look 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:09.960 like for you? And how do you try and remain 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:17.240 I don't know, somewhat balanced at a time that wants 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:21.080 to like every headline, every tweet, every moment can literally 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:21.800 throw you off. 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:25.800 I'm gonna address something real quick and then I will 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.439 definitely answer your question and just what I want to. 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:30.679 You've you've talked about young people, and like I've you know, 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:34.400 I've aged out of the young adult generation. But when 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.399 I think, like you mentioned the righteous anger, and I 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.320 think that righteous anger is it's righteous and it comes 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:43.040 from a just place. When I think about that righteous anger, though, 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.680 it's like we have to remember and not just young people, 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.240 we have to remember that that anger, you know, does 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.280 need to be directed systematically, Like I think about like 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:54.400 just as an example of the story of Kitty Genevieve's 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:56.840 and for years it was presented as a psychological study 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:01.280 in this this concept of the bystander effect. It turns 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:05.119 out the cops made that shit up. They just like 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:08.800 that story was totally doctored and the cops were incompetent, 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:10.840 but they went, well, you know, thirty eight people or 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.160 however many washinged and did nothing, so it's not our fault. 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:16.920 And so all this time we were mad at the innocent, 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:20.080 not innocent like I'm sure some people. Some people tried 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.439 to call the cops and the cops didn't answer. But 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:24.320 you get told a story and then it becomes well, 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:26.600 thirty eight people washed and did nothing, So it's the 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:29.119 thirty eight people's fault and not the NYPD whose actual 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:34.159 job it was to help that person. And that also 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:38.280 now to spring off that I am not a mental 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:40.919 health professional. If you are a younger person listening to this, 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:46.840 first of all, thank you tell your friends. Second of all, 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:49.480 i've seen the age demographics. Please tell your young friends. 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:49.760 Tell you. 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:53.000 But second of all, you know if you're talking to 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:54.919 your kids about if you have young people in your 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:57.440 life and they're struggling with mental health, because Danielle, you're right. 0:21:57.440 --> 0:21:59.360 I saw this scene the other day and it was like, 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.320 like it's it's leaped horribly. I think it is like 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:06.800 half of high school males, and I can only assume 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:09.280 it's worse for girls. Yeah, knowing what I know about 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:12.159 high school, I think they made a movie about that 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:14.520 twenty years ago. I can only imagine it's worse for 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:18.160 high school girls. But yeah, it's like half so one 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:22.159 two One in two high school students is dealing with 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:25.960 anxiety or depression. I'm not an expert, but what I do, 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:30.399 I'm in therapy. Having miners in therapy is tricky with 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:33.879 the parents stuff and disclosure. But if you are a 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:36.720 good parent and you have a trusting relationship with your 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:40.440 child and they're having issues, you know, try looking into 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:44.080 psychiatry and psychology if you haven't already. I'm very much 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:47.440 in that as well. I've been in therapy for years. 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:50.879 It's never ending. Some of it comes from my own stuff, 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:53.440 but sometimes it is the horrors of the world. When 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:55.320 I started therapy, I would go to my therapist and 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:57.080 I'd be like, what am I supposed to do? I'm 0:22:57.119 --> 0:22:59.520 just one person and the world is falling apart, and 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:02.199 one person of the population has all the money, like 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:04.600