Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob Left That's a podcast.
Speaker 1: My guest today is Dawn Bridges, who's had a whole
Speaker 1: career in publicity, mostly corporate publicity. Dawn, I've had a
Speaker 1: wonderful time in the traditional music industry and the new
Speaker 1: music industry, UM tech companies, Time Inc. Um, he's a
Speaker 1: Time Warner. Okay, you covered a lot of ground white publicity.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what else I wanted to do, and
Speaker 1: I thought about going to law school like everyone else
Speaker 1: who graduated with a liberal What did you would you
Speaker 1: what was your degree of communications l A right? Okay,
Speaker 1: so you you graduated from college and this was like
Speaker 1: late seventies, early eighties, eighty three, and you had no
Speaker 1: idea what you wanted to do. Well, I knew I
Speaker 1: always liked music. I actually had an internship at A
Speaker 1: and M Records and a little bit slower, why did
Speaker 1: you get an internship at A and M Records? Well,
Speaker 1: one of the great things about going to school at
Speaker 1: u CE, oh hey, is there are internships and almost
Speaker 1: any entertainment company. I mean, just pick it. You want
Speaker 1: to be in TV, you want to be really yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean because I grew up in the era. I'm
Speaker 1: a little bit older than you, like ten years older
Speaker 1: or close to it, and you couldn't even get a
Speaker 1: job at a record store like Tower Records. It was
Speaker 1: so hard. So you're going to U c l A.
Speaker 1: If you say, I want an internship at a record label,
Speaker 1: is just that easy? Even better, you've got credit for it. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you're working there? Uh Gil, is there Gil Freasons
Speaker 1: running it? Yeah? Gil would have been there. Mike Gormley
Speaker 1: head Mike Gormley, was it prob? I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: And I remember the Police album, I mean not the
Speaker 1: remember the show at the Whiskey where everyone kind of
Speaker 1: had the bright blonde hair. Go back and google it
Speaker 1: that the very very first piece was that on that album?
Speaker 1: Certainly Roxanne. So what did you do with um? Well,
Speaker 1: those were the days where you actually mailed out um
Speaker 1: records to journalists. So I stuffed a lot of envelopes.
Speaker 1: Um you know, I checked people in at shows. I
Speaker 1: did all the things that aspiring people do. Okay, and
Speaker 1: that was how long a tenure, I guess about six months? Okay.
Speaker 1: Good good experience, bad experience. Interesting. I mean it felt
Speaker 1: very glamorous at the time. You know here you are
Speaker 1: in the old Charlie chaplain lot um. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: great okay? And after did they give you the time
Speaker 1: of day? Yeah? No. I thought people were very nice
Speaker 1: and polite when they had extra tickets to things that
Speaker 1: would invite me to shows. So and it actually served
Speaker 1: me well later on when I had interns and departments
Speaker 1: that that I managed. You know, be nice to your interns, okay,
Speaker 1: or now the interns have to get paid otherwise, yes
Speaker 1: they do. Okay, you're at U C l A. How
Speaker 1: do you get to A and m um, well, I
Speaker 1: don't know as you have a car. I didn't have
Speaker 1: a car my first couple of years, so I literally
Speaker 1: I was a tour gut at the l A Times
Speaker 1: my sophomore year. So I literally got on the Wilshire
Speaker 1: bus and went from Westwood downtown to the l A Times.
Speaker 1: You were a tour guard? Yeah, they used to give
Speaker 1: tours at the l A Times. What would you see, um? Well,
Speaker 1: to show you when it was the big finale was
Speaker 1: ending in the printing presses. It's funny. When I was
Speaker 1: in grade school, we went once to the brief for
Speaker 1: post in Connecticut. I remember that was the error of
Speaker 1: what they said, you know, was it hot? Type letter
Speaker 1: came down? Yeah, no, that you did all that. And
Speaker 1: of course the l A Times had so much history
Speaker 1: you know that I wasn't aware of before I was
Speaker 1: down there. And I can't remember a whole lot except
Speaker 1: the chandlers were a big deal and water and um,
Speaker 1: and it paid extremely I don't remember exactly what I
Speaker 1: got paid, but it paid two or three times what
Speaker 1: minimum wage was, so there was a lot of money.
Speaker 1: It was a lot of more. How did you get
Speaker 1: that gig? You know? I wish I had a better
Speaker 1: memory for it. Um, I'm not sure I do. Okay,
Speaker 1: are you? I mean? But now we hear about the internship.
Speaker 1: We hear about the job the only times. So you
Speaker 1: sound somewhat entrepreneurial. Would that be accurate? I guess I
Speaker 1: would say I was always a self starter and and
Speaker 1: I had a good sense of perseverance. Um. And I
Speaker 1: got a much thicker skin as I got older. You know,
Speaker 1: you have to be comfortable being rejected or having people
Speaker 1: say no and get back up again. Okay, so you
Speaker 1: you have that experience, you graduate from U C. L A.
Speaker 1: And uh, well, in the summer I grew up in
Speaker 1: Chicago in the summer, I would go back and there
Speaker 1: was a big music festival called Chicago Fest, and I worked,
Speaker 1: you know, first as a receptionist. Then they told me,
Speaker 1: if you learn how to type, you can come back
Speaker 1: and be the entertainment director's kind of assistant to deal
Speaker 1: with all the contracts. And that was super glamorous. I
Speaker 1: mean I remember a hundred thousand people showing up for Journey.
Speaker 1: I remember the Blues Brothers playing, you know, right on
Speaker 1: Navy Pier on the water. And through there I met
Speaker 1: a lot of agents or agents assistants, and through one
Speaker 1: of them, I was introduced to someone at um Salters
Speaker 1: Roskin Friedman, which is a big PR agency. At this point,
Speaker 1: Larry Salter's son is still a PR person Um Lease
Speaker 1: Alter's son, Larry Salters. That's what I meant to say,
Speaker 1: Larry is gonna be angry with me. Uh yeah. But
Speaker 1: that was one of the along with Rogers and Cowan,
Speaker 1: that was probably the biggest entertainment PR firm. And again
Speaker 1: I was hired as a secretary of a little bit slower.
Speaker 1: So you learned them as you found out about them
Speaker 1: as a result of Chicago Fest. Yes, how did you
Speaker 1: literally get a job there. Well again, um, PR firms
Speaker 1: are very low margin and they don't pay very much
Speaker 1: particular just for my way, it's may not be as
Speaker 1: sophisticated as you are. Low margin in what way? Um, Well,
Speaker 1: there's a way to do scale. It's a one on one.
Speaker 1: So it's not like you, as an account executive can
Speaker 1: have a hundred clients, because you could not service a
Speaker 1: hundred clients. Um. And and they were always looking for
Speaker 1: people to do more work. They were looking for more
Speaker 1: bodies to raise the gross. Yes, and um I was
Speaker 1: hired as an assistant. You were doing you were in
Speaker 1: Chicago in the summers. Okay, so this was a gig
Speaker 1: with solters at all after you graduated? Yes, okay. Had
Speaker 1: you in the back of your mind when you were
Speaker 1: meeting these people at Chicago FESTI say, oh, I'm going
Speaker 1: to use this to get a job. Uh. Well, I
Speaker 1: knew I wanted to stay in l A at that point.
Speaker 1: Um So to the degree that any of the relationships
Speaker 1: I built there were helpful, um, which they turned out
Speaker 1: to be. I mean I knew Bobby I met Bobby
Speaker 1: Brooks then at I c m. Um, I forget who
Speaker 1: the William Moore's agent was. I mean, those are I
Speaker 1: guess two big ones that had at least well, I
Speaker 1: guess I'm trying to get into your personality. Were used
Speaker 1: basically saying, Okay, I know this person, let me ring them,
Speaker 1: let me work it, let me see what I can
Speaker 1: make of myself. Or we just sitting there and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden you got a phone call. Hey, you
Speaker 1: know we met you and this you'd be good at
Speaker 1: our office. Certainly not the latter. I'm not sure. I
Speaker 1: was just organized for the former, but I was pretty
Speaker 1: good at figuring out at least target companies, and and
Speaker 1: again I figured out pretty early that a lot of them,
Speaker 1: UM needed young people who were basically willing to do
Speaker 1: anything at anyhing. Okay, so you basically called up the
Speaker 1: Solters operations that I want to work. I was introduced
Speaker 1: I think by a junior William Morris agent too, not
Speaker 1: to lead to someone else. Okay, So you did not
Speaker 1: know Solters at all from Chicago fest not at all. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you're introduced, you go for meeting. What happens, um, Well,
Speaker 1: Lee had an office that I'm not sure he ever
Speaker 1: had filing cabinets. You know, there was the Barber Pile,
Speaker 1: the Frank Pile, who was a great character. UM. And
Speaker 1: it was basically, can you write? Do you understand what
Speaker 1: a column item is? Um? You start next Monday? And
Speaker 1: again I was hired as an assistant and about three
Speaker 1: account executives quit in the first month. And it was like,
Speaker 1: can you be polite? Can you write? Can you figure
Speaker 1: out what makes a good story? And when you do events?
Speaker 1: Can you get people to pose for photos? And it
Speaker 1: was learned by doing. I mean there's no school. How
Speaker 1: much were you getting paid? I don't remember. Not very
Speaker 1: much enough to pay your rent and live a life well,
Speaker 1: or your parents had to help you out. No, my parents,
Speaker 1: I mean my parents paid tuition UM tuition at U
Speaker 1: c l A. At that point was not a whole
Speaker 1: lot of money. I always was responsible, No, I was
Speaker 1: self sufficient. I did live in Santa Monica in a
Speaker 1: rent control apartment, so I had very little, you know,
Speaker 1: housing costs at that point. So what were some of
Speaker 1: the first things you did? Uh? Well, I remember following
Speaker 1: Lee around, UM too, Barbara streising events. I think that
Speaker 1: was maybe the Broadway album. I mean I didn't deal
Speaker 1: with her directly, but someone always needed helpers you know,
Speaker 1: carrying the coat or you know, holding the photographers here.
Speaker 1: And that was also when she did her performance when
Speaker 1: she hadn't performed for a long time in her house
Speaker 1: in Malibu for um, the Democratic Party or something, I
Speaker 1: don't remember specifically what the cause was. And that, of
Speaker 1: course was so fascinating just to see this sort of
Speaker 1: legendary person and how an event like that came together.
Speaker 1: There were a lot of Um, there were a lot
Speaker 1: of movie premiers, which need a lot of bodies. People
Speaker 1: have worked the red carpet people you know, to ask
Speaker 1: stars if they would come talk to entertainment tonight, people
Speaker 1: to pose photos. Um. They had a big theater practice
Speaker 1: which I knew nothing about theater, and most of it
Speaker 1: was centered in New York. Um. But I was given
Speaker 1: the Carol Channing account, um, which was just a hoop.
Speaker 1: She was you know, she was lovely. Um. I worked
Speaker 1: with Morris Day. Um. It was a very David Copperfield,
Speaker 1: a bunch of Las Vegas acts. Okay, So would you
Speaker 1: basically assigned and you had to plug wires into holes
Speaker 1: or did you have to create the opportunities the latter?
Speaker 1: How did you just how to do that? Well? I've
Speaker 1: always been a voracious consumer of media. Um. I mean
Speaker 1: I always read newspapers and a bunch of magazines, So
Speaker 1: I guess I understood what kind of thing they would
Speaker 1: cover by just you know, years of reading it, um
Speaker 1: and again some of it. You know, you can pitch
Speaker 1: ten things, you know, get nine knowes. You got to
Speaker 1: just get back up and do. But you would literally say, Okay,
Speaker 1: I want to be in the l A Times. Let
Speaker 1: me look who the names are, let me ring them, um,
Speaker 1: Or let's figure out are we best off in the
Speaker 1: calendar section? Are we best off in you know, the
Speaker 1: Sunday magazine. You also need to not just we have
Speaker 1: a better plan. You would literally call out of the
Speaker 1: blue and what would you say, Um, we have to
Speaker 1: figure out what the pitch is, right, What what differentiates
Speaker 1: your artists from anyone else in that category that makes
Speaker 1: it interesting enough for the journalists to want to cover it.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of your job to sort of sort
Speaker 1: through that. I mean, there's a lot of singers, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of actors, and why should someone care
Speaker 1: about the one that you're representing? So how do you
Speaker 1: do it? Give me an example, Oh, you talked to
Speaker 1: the Um, you talked to the artist a lot, and
Speaker 1: you try to figure out, again, what's different from this.
Speaker 1: I don't know country artists and any other country artists.
Speaker 1: Was it where they grew up? What songs they write? Um? Uh?
Speaker 1: Their background? Um? And okay, so now you know what
Speaker 1: you're pitching. You know the artists very well. You're a newbie.
Speaker 1: No one knows who you are, so you connect in
Speaker 1: that time it was by phone. You connect with someone
Speaker 1: who controls as a writer, the media outlet. Did they
Speaker 1: give you the time of day? Some did? Some? I
Speaker 1: mean some of the bigger ones were the nicest ones.
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't deal with Bob Hilburn a lot,
Speaker 1: but I remember he was completely charming and lovely. Um,
Speaker 1: and other ones didn't. Again, I guess I had a
Speaker 1: pretty thick skin because it didn't stick with me. If
Speaker 1: people just hunt up or not interested or whatever, Okay,
Speaker 1: onto the next one. So you could literally say I'm
Speaker 1: gonna call twenty people and if one says yes, doesn't bother?
Speaker 1: Is that your personality at large? You rejection rolls off you.
Speaker 1: Oh I never really thought about it that way. I
Speaker 1: I guess I'm a realist, and I realized that. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, no one bats a dent um in this
Speaker 1: kind of role. So if I'm going to do this
Speaker 1: or for as long as I'm doing it, I'd better
Speaker 1: be comfortable with what the rules of the road are.
Speaker 1: So how long do you work with Falters? Four or
Speaker 1: five years? Okay, at the end of the tenure, what
Speaker 1: does your job look like. I was a senior account
Speaker 1: executive and what does that mean as opposed to when
Speaker 1: you started out? Um, I probably had better accounts. I
Speaker 1: had junior people, even if they didn't. I mean, there
Speaker 1: was not a formal organ chart, you know, so it's
Speaker 1: not like I could say these three people reported to me,
Speaker 1: but I had, you know, people that were junior that
Speaker 1: I could have help on accounts. Um. Having afterwards worked
Speaker 1: in corporate life, it was a pretty loose organization, kind
Speaker 1: of all out of Lee's head and and feeling. But
Speaker 1: I didn't know any different then. I mean that was
Speaker 1: just how much pressure was there. I think that there
Speaker 1: was a fair amount of pressure at least I felt
Speaker 1: on myself. Um uh, but I've felt pressure at different
Speaker 1: just asking because for me, not the top of job.
Speaker 1: For me, I can't handle that much rejection. And let's
Speaker 1: use the example of a record promo person. You know
Speaker 1: they're gonna get the ads and they feel a lot
Speaker 1: of pressure if they don't get them, however, well hard
Speaker 1: they're working, their bloss is gonna beat them up. So
Speaker 1: it was the type of thing we say, well, you
Speaker 1: know we're working this thing. You've got to get a
Speaker 1: couple of newspapers, you gotta get the person on TV.
Speaker 1: And did you feel pressure? Well, I really have to
Speaker 1: make this happen. Lee was a big believer in column items,
Speaker 1: and with that Carol Channing pile, he would pull out
Speaker 1: an old column item and say, just freshen this up,
Speaker 1: Dawn and see if Liz Smith will use it. So
Speaker 1: he actually gave you a certain amount of instruction. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: and he gave a great guidance pr people should never
Speaker 1: be in the photo. Uh, you want your client posts
Speaker 1: on the left side. Why is that because when you
Speaker 1: read the thing, you know you're that the first name. Yes,
Speaker 1: they're the first name that people read, and not everyone
Speaker 1: reads all the names. Um no, it was okay, So
Speaker 1: four or five years go by. How does it end
Speaker 1: with Lee? Well, I had a few music accounts and
Speaker 1: PolyGram was looking for someone to head their artist publicity
Speaker 1: department in New York. My father lived in New York
Speaker 1: and had since I was a teenager, and I always
Speaker 1: knew I wanted to be in New York. At some point,
Speaker 1: you said, your father, both parents, my father, um and uh,
Speaker 1: and they offered to bring me to New York. Um.
Speaker 1: And again I knew about music. I didn't know sort
Speaker 1: of about label life and and um and I had
Speaker 1: never managed a department, even though there was so much
Speaker 1: money coming in at that point that, you know, making
Speaker 1: budgets um uh was not what it ended up being.
Speaker 1: Um later and I, UM, yeah, I mean PolyGram As
Speaker 1: you remember, there were six major is at that point,
Speaker 1: where ninety now. Um. So this is just after what
Speaker 1: Polygrams on an acquisitions were. They bought A and M,
Speaker 1: they bought Island. They were owned by Phillips, the Dutch
Speaker 1: electronics company, and to fund those acquisitions they floated the
Speaker 1: company and the New York Stock Exchange. So they were
Speaker 1: the first pure play music group. Nothing about I P. O.
Speaker 1: S or anything like that at that point. That got them,
Speaker 1: you know, the billion dollars that paid for A and
Speaker 1: M and Island they acquired right before I came in Subsequently,
Speaker 1: they acquired Motown a year or so later, and then
Speaker 1: another year later half of deaf Jam UM. And it
Speaker 1: was a lot of sort of integration. And UM PolyGram
Speaker 1: was traditionally on a global level, the biggest of the
Speaker 1: six companies right there overseas, but the smallest in the US. UM.
Speaker 1: But they had, you know, a handful of big stars. UM.
Speaker 1: And yeah, okay, so you're brought in as the department head. Yes,
Speaker 1: are some of the people working there feel that they
Speaker 1: should have had your job because they've been working there
Speaker 1: for a while. Yeah, at least one did. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: happened there? Um? She stayed for a year or so.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I didn't have the incentive to
Speaker 1: get rid of her. I felt like usually that person quits.
Speaker 1: But in any event, UM, did you feel I mean,
Speaker 1: you've been working in the trenches for four or five years,
Speaker 1: but you hadn't worked at a label. Did you feel
Speaker 1: a little intimidated that you were going to be managing
Speaker 1: the department? Um? I think less about managing the department
Speaker 1: more than trying to figure out just the mechanics of
Speaker 1: how a label worked the various departments. UM, How something
Speaker 1: comes through the system from recording the record to how
Speaker 1: much time you need for the setup, to the other departments,
Speaker 1: the marketing, promotion, sales department. Okay, so PolyGram was an
Speaker 1: overall umbrella and they had a lot of labels. You
Speaker 1: were working in New York. What was your responsibility in
Speaker 1: the beginning when I was hired, A and M and
Speaker 1: Island weren't integrated yet, so they were still run stand alone.
Speaker 1: Um I was the old PolyGram So Bungo, VI, Deaf Leopard,
Speaker 1: Tears Tears, Mercury. Yeah, well then they split it up
Speaker 1: after I got they split it up between Mercury and
Speaker 1: they created something called the PolyGram Label Group, which had
Speaker 1: London and I think some of the Island repertoire um
Speaker 1: going through. And then yes, I had the Mercury artists
Speaker 1: and I think so you were literally the record company
Speaker 1: publicity I was. And then so how much did you
Speaker 1: still have to do the work that you did at
Speaker 1: least alters as opposed to farming it out to your people. Well,
Speaker 1: I remember um my boss saying you've got to deal
Speaker 1: with Bungo because he's the biggest artist on the label
Speaker 1: and you're running the department. Um Mellencamp had outside press,
Speaker 1: but I ended up having a reasonable relationship with him.
Speaker 1: He's notoriously difficult, even myself. But at that point UM,
Speaker 1: because you know, all the corporate PR was done out
Speaker 1: of London, UM, but we were being traded in New
Speaker 1: York and Alan Levy, who came over from from Europe
Speaker 1: and was then chairman UM, said get me PR because
Speaker 1: he needed someone in New York that could deal with
Speaker 1: some of the corporate stuff. And I tried it upstairs,
Speaker 1: and I think he made one of those decisions that
Speaker 1: I would rather have someone that knew the artists and
Speaker 1: sort of knew the mechanics of the business UM and
Speaker 1: had trade relationships, and I'll teach them, you know, the
Speaker 1: business stuff. And I mean I took accounting in college,
Speaker 1: but I know nothing about sort of finances. I p
Speaker 1: o s. But at the time, Columbia had a month
Speaker 1: long live in Finance for Non Financial Executives course and
Speaker 1: he sent me to that, and it was famous for
Speaker 1: sending people to courses. But it was such a great
Speaker 1: gift for me because that's where I wasn'tmidated in the beginning,
Speaker 1: and all that business stuff. I didn't know the difference,
Speaker 1: you know, I knew the difference between balanced sheeting, the
Speaker 1: P and L. But you know how deals were mean
Speaker 1: any of that stuff. And obviously a month is not
Speaker 1: like having an NBA or a finance degree, but you
Speaker 1: know what, it's enough where you can talk to the
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal and not feel like an idiot. Okay,
Speaker 1: when was there an interim period when you were doing
Speaker 1: both or all the way to the end, All the
Speaker 1: way to the end. I literally had two titles, two
Speaker 1: sets of business cards, PolyGram Corps, com Mercury, you know,
Speaker 1: artist publicity. I had two wardrobes because if I was
Speaker 1: in a corporate day and then I had a concert
Speaker 1: at night, you know, I wasn't gonna wear you know,
Speaker 1: you need to change into my jeans. So what was
Speaker 1: your mission a corporate level? On a corporate level, explain
Speaker 1: why people should buy PolyGram stock, Explain how um the
Speaker 1: labels are being integrated. And PolyGram did two other things
Speaker 1: that are kind of interesting that seemed obvious now. They
Speaker 1: started a film come they you know of the company,
Speaker 1: I think what was film revenues. They bought working title films,
Speaker 1: which is still around, you know, love actually four weddings
Speaker 1: in the funeral um. They bought propaganda which mostly did
Speaker 1: music videos but also had films UM California. I don't
Speaker 1: remember all of them. Uh, and they bought Interscope Films UM.
Speaker 1: So you had this, you know, truly multi media entertainment
Speaker 1: company UM. And then they also and now this is
Speaker 1: very obvious and commonplace, but because of PolyGram strength overseas,
Speaker 1: you know, yes, they were always trying to sell you know,
Speaker 1: Shania Twain or Brian Adams or Bunjovie records around the world.
Speaker 1: But they also put a huge emphasis on local repertoire UM.
Speaker 1: You know, the Italian artists, it's never going to travel
Speaker 1: outside of Italy. They will sell a boatload of of
Speaker 1: records or CDs in Italy. UM. And that was I
Speaker 1: mean not just from a business standpoint, but explaining to
Speaker 1: investors that that was an important little bit slower. So
Speaker 1: you take the Columbia course. You're sophisticated enough to talk
Speaker 1: to UM financial press, do you who do you start calling? Well,
Speaker 1: there's not that many ones that you have. You know,
Speaker 1: you have to build a relationship with the New York
Speaker 1: Times and with the Wall Street Journal and the Financial
Speaker 1: Times and UM. You know, I mean there were random
Speaker 1: things like the economists, but it's not like the economists
Speaker 1: head to beat The l A Times obviously was huge.
Speaker 1: At that point, Chuck Phillips was probably the most important
Speaker 1: music business um person. Um. You know the trades. Um.
Speaker 1: It wasn't always necessarily pitching things. It was more preparation
Speaker 1: of messaging and materials and earnings and reports in English?
Speaker 1: What is that? Well, Um, by pitching, I mean pro acts. No, no,
Speaker 1: the other end the point with preparation. Oh well, okay,
Speaker 1: you're a public company. So every quarter you have to
Speaker 1: issue um of release about how your results were, and
Speaker 1: then you have to explain why revenues went down and
Speaker 1: what you're projecting for the next quarter. Um, and you
Speaker 1: know how the company is pitting together, what your competitive
Speaker 1: advantages are. Okay, So there would be a meeting are
Speaker 1: there the release and they would have a meeting with
Speaker 1: the analysts would call in, Yeah, you have a quarterly okay,
Speaker 1: analysts call And then when that ended in the afternoon,
Speaker 1: you'd put out some kind of press release now product
Speaker 1: the release before? No, I guess what I guess I didn't,
Speaker 1: you're right? Would when that ended, would you call the
Speaker 1: news outlets and try to spin them? Um? Usually they're
Speaker 1: calling you they had specific questions for whatever story they're
Speaker 1: writing about it, and you know, can you explain ABC? Um?
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, maybe I would have checked in,
Speaker 1: do you have everything you need? Can I help with
Speaker 1: it anything? Um? But you're really the Wall Street Journal,
Speaker 1: And if you've written a good press release for your
Speaker 1: earnings and you know we had really good financial people
Speaker 1: and investor relations people, You're not going to convince the
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal of something other than what they see
Speaker 1: and what they're looking at. You can clarify things, you
Speaker 1: can get them more information, but it's not like I'm
Speaker 1: going to go out there and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: take you know, black and make it white. Okay. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm very familiar with UH label publicity, which I think
Speaker 1: most people can figure it out. But you say there
Speaker 1: are fewer outlets and corporate publicity, and you talked about relationships.
Speaker 1: How do you establish and keep up those relationships? Well,
Speaker 1: I suppose it's like any kind of relationship. You treat
Speaker 1: people with respect, you're polite. Um, you return calls very
Speaker 1: quickly because they're on deadline. Um. If you don't know something,
Speaker 1: you don't try to kind of bs your way through it.
Speaker 1: It good question don't know. Let me check into it
Speaker 1: and I'll get back to you. And you never ever
Speaker 1: ever lie, okay, but let's assume it was off cycle.
Speaker 1: In between quarterly things, would you call in just make nice,
Speaker 1: to keep the relationship and now you have a lunch
Speaker 1: with you know, the key people. I don't know whether
Speaker 1: it was every quarter or every six months, but uh.
Speaker 1: And also when there were a lot more tickets for shows,
Speaker 1: you'd invite them to shows. Okay, And you're doing two jobs. Now,
Speaker 1: when someone does one job in the music business, they
Speaker 1: have no life. How are you doing? What your life
Speaker 1: look like doing two jobs? Um? Well, I did have
Speaker 1: two departments supporting me. Um. You know, when you're in
Speaker 1: your late twenties early thirties, it's very glamorous. And you know,
Speaker 1: I wasn't married then, I didn't have kids yet. Um,
Speaker 1: so I didn't mind if I was going out five
Speaker 1: nights a week or I enjoyed going out five nights
Speaker 1: a week. And you know, obviously this was pre everyone
Speaker 1: having their computer at home or certainly you know, pre
Speaker 1: BlackBerry and and iPhones, so you kind of you know,
Speaker 1: when you finished with The New York Times at six o'clock,
Speaker 1: you were done till the next morning when you picked
Speaker 1: up the paper and you saw what was in there,
Speaker 1: and there was sort of a relief in that you
Speaker 1: don't have this twenty four hour cycle of of um
Speaker 1: you know that that we do now? Um? Why were
Speaker 1: to my viewpoint, it seemed like the let me put
Speaker 1: it this way, it seemed like the entry point at
Speaker 1: the label for women was through publicity department. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: and probably HR, but you never paid attention to HR.
Speaker 1: Yes okay. UM. I don't know whether it felt like
Speaker 1: a more female thing that you know, you're kind of
Speaker 1: catering to people and you're the one that sets up
Speaker 1: the parties and you know, offers to poor people a drink.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean obviously also you were not
Speaker 1: controlling a P and l um, so you weren't on
Speaker 1: an operational UM. I guess driving here was this actually sexism?
Speaker 1: Were they basically saying, hey, you can do the publicitist
Speaker 1: publicity ghetto, but these other jobs maybe if you prove yourself,
Speaker 1: but you were not going to let you right in. UM.
Speaker 1: I was so happy, as I think many people in
Speaker 1: my position, at least in the nineties were to have
Speaker 1: a seat at the table and be part of this.
Speaker 1: It didn't even occur to me. I mean that that. Um,
Speaker 1: I might have been able to do something else or
Speaker 1: contribute in a different way. I just wanted to do
Speaker 1: my job in the best. Okay, how about the other
Speaker 1: end of it. Uh, you're an attractive young woman working
Speaker 1: amongst a lot of high power people. Did people abuse
Speaker 1: that relationship? Um? Did I ever have anything horrible happened
Speaker 1: to me? No? Horrible is a little strong. Uh. It
Speaker 1: was different times, and you know I felt very comfortable
Speaker 1: and taking care of myself. Okay at this point in time,
Speaker 1: do you think you have been consistent or you have
Speaker 1: a height and awareness and you might not tolerate stuff?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think everyone does. I mean I mentioned
Speaker 1: this to you. Before we started PolyGram, every year would
Speaker 1: have a very glamorous managing director's conference. I don't know,
Speaker 1: two hundred people ten years and we went to Seville
Speaker 1: in Berlin and Vancouver and um, Hong Kong, and out
Speaker 1: of two and fifty people, there were three women, which
Speaker 1: now that seems so bizarre to me. Three women, Um,
Speaker 1: the same three women by the way, UM, and so
Speaker 1: that's a heavy ratio. What was it like being one
Speaker 1: of those women, Well, we were the junior people, and
Speaker 1: we were kind of, um, the favorite people. Everyone wanted
Speaker 1: to sit with us because there were only three women exactly. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you're rocking it, PolyGram. What's the next step? Uh,
Speaker 1: PolyGram gets sold to Universe. So and that was kind
Speaker 1: of a shock because you know, it was the biggest
Speaker 1: record company in the world, it was still very profitable
Speaker 1: and Napster had not hit yet. Um, and it was
Speaker 1: quite a long time to close the deal. Well, actually,
Speaker 1: first I should say I was on maternity leave with
Speaker 1: my second kid, and I came back early, which I
Speaker 1: now also think is stunning. You know, I had one
Speaker 1: second kid and one maternity leave, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden it became so important to come back after nine weeks.
Speaker 1: And I obviously never got that back, and no one
Speaker 1: cared on the other side. It's not like anyone said, oh,
Speaker 1: look at her, she's a saint. She came in after
Speaker 1: nine weeks ahead of time. I mean, that's just not
Speaker 1: the way it worked. Um, it was about a year
Speaker 1: to close the deal. And then I mean I kept
Speaker 1: a lot of the label people, you know, le are
Speaker 1: obviously stayed and actually got more you know, when they
Speaker 1: combined Island def JAM UM, but anyone kind of in
Speaker 1: a corporate staff level, UM what was out UM. But
Speaker 1: by them Roger Aames had been run. You know. Levy
Speaker 1: was on top of everything, including the film division, and
Speaker 1: Roger Ames was running of the company UM that that
Speaker 1: was music, recorded music and publishing. And he and I,
Speaker 1: you know, were very close. UM. And he UM was
Speaker 1: talking to Jerry Levin and Dick Parsons about UM because
Speaker 1: as you remember, after the whole sort of thing in
Speaker 1: the mid nineties, UM, with the changes in management at UM,
Speaker 1: what was it It was Morgatto to Fuchs and and
Speaker 1: then they gave it to the film guys Daily and
Speaker 1: Semmel Um Chris Daily and semi brilliant people. But they
Speaker 1: were on the West Coast and Warner Music was an
Speaker 1: East Coast based company. UM, and I think Jerry Um
Speaker 1: and Dick Parsons decided UM they wanted to get a
Speaker 1: music I based in New York and Roger was available. UM.
Speaker 1: It took a while to sort of get the deal done,
Speaker 1: and then when he came in, he brought me in
Speaker 1: and I started. The day that the A O. L
Speaker 1: Time Warner merger was announced Okay, a couple of things.
Speaker 1: You see the end of polygrin. Are you uptight about
Speaker 1: what you're gonna do for a living? You just had
Speaker 1: another kid. I was very sad because it was it
Speaker 1: was a very important part of my life. It was
Speaker 1: a family to me. I mean, you know, the artists,
Speaker 1: the people I worked with, and it just sort of
Speaker 1: felt like I was being torn away from kind of
Speaker 1: everything I knew, you know, in the bulk of my adulthood. Um. Now,
Speaker 1: at that point, because the economy was good, the music induction.
Speaker 1: You're the type of person, You're a survivor. You're gonna land.
Speaker 1: You believe you're gonna land on your feet, no matter
Speaker 1: what I believe. You have to figure out a way
Speaker 1: to land on your feet. Okay. So ultimately Aims closes
Speaker 1: with Warner and he brings you over. Now this is
Speaker 1: solely as corporate publicity, right Yeah. Well I ended up, yes,
Speaker 1: no artist stuff, but I ended up adding things like
Speaker 1: third party marketing and you know what is Oh, how
Speaker 1: would you explain it? NASCAR wants to do music based programming. UM,
Speaker 1: so you partner with them so that you can expose
Speaker 1: you know, some of your artists and um and then
Speaker 1: they also had all these committees because all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you know, Time Warner, which was famously siloed after the
Speaker 1: A O L deal happened, they wanted to have synergy.
Speaker 1: So because there was a very small corporate staff, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I was the Synergy marketing person, the
Speaker 1: Synergy philanthropy person, the Synergy advertising person, which served me
Speaker 1: very well because I think there were eight or nine
Speaker 1: divisions then, so I got to know people all across
Speaker 1: all of the Time Warner divisions. Okay, so you started
Speaker 1: on the merger day. What was it like in the office. Well,
Speaker 1: people were in shock, as you can imagine, UM, And
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone from the end I was clearly
Speaker 1: on the Time Warner side. I don't think anyone really
Speaker 1: knew what to think. Um. And not too long afterwards,
Speaker 1: I remember there was an investor day where what it
Speaker 1: would have been Steve Case, Bob Pittman, Jerry live In,
Speaker 1: Dick Parsons and whoever. The Time Warner CFO was UM
Speaker 1: and each of the division heads. It was a whole
Speaker 1: day thing we had to prepare. So this case Roger
Speaker 1: had to give a half an hour of presentation about
Speaker 1: why people should love Warner Music. But of course that
Speaker 1: was when Napster was starting to show. And of the
Speaker 1: eight or nine Time Warner divisions, the music division from
Speaker 1: a business standpoint, was arguably the most troubled. Um. So
Speaker 1: there's like a big spotlight, and you had all these
Speaker 1: people jostling for position, for power, and even from the
Speaker 1: media standpoint, it was so interesting because as opposed to
Speaker 1: saying from the Wall Street Journal, this is our point person,
Speaker 1: you now had a point person who covered a O
Speaker 1: well and a point person who covered Time Warner. And
Speaker 1: you multiply that out against any sort of business outlet um,
Speaker 1: and it was a very leaky organization. Um yeah, every
Speaker 1: everyone was getting their agenda out there. So I mean
Speaker 1: you could kind of look whether it was the New
Speaker 1: York Post or whether it was in New York Times
Speaker 1: and figure out who was trying to say what. Um
Speaker 1: yeah it was. So what were some of your experiences there?
Speaker 1: You talked about nine eleven and what happened there? Okay,
Speaker 1: so I was nine eleven. Um, almost all of us
Speaker 1: in the senior level, Um, we're out in l A.
Speaker 1: We came out like the last flight out um on
Speaker 1: the tent um and it was pouring in la or
Speaker 1: pouring in New York. So we were delayed, you know,
Speaker 1: didn't get to the hotel until two in the morning. Um.
Speaker 1: Roger was out, Sylvia Rome was out, Valazzoli was out.
Speaker 1: It was a Latin Grammy Awards and it was um uh,
Speaker 1: Madonna's last show of this tour. So Liz Rosenberg was out,
Speaker 1: and there was a Mary Lynch conference, so Helen Murphy,
Speaker 1: the CFO was out. So all of us were around,
Speaker 1: and you know, we'd all watched this on TV. We
Speaker 1: were all New Yorkers going trying to find our family.
Speaker 1: You know, no cell phone, no New York cell phones worked. UM.
Speaker 1: A very good friend of mine, actually, the woman who
Speaker 1: is my son's godmother, lost her husband in canter you know,
Speaker 1: and she called me and left me a message. So
Speaker 1: I and I mean she knew because obviously all you
Speaker 1: had to do was look at the footage, and she
Speaker 1: knew he worked on the top floor. Um. And so
Speaker 1: it all came crumbling down. And I think he had
Speaker 1: actually left her message saying you know, um, I think
Speaker 1: he said a bomb went off. UM. So I'm worried
Speaker 1: about one of my best friends in the world. But
Speaker 1: I can't even talk to her because the phones aren't working.
Speaker 1: And also, as you remember, they closed um uh, you
Speaker 1: know any commercial flights. So what day? It was a Tuesday,
Speaker 1: And so every day we keep on thinking because time
Speaker 1: Warner than had a big fleet of jets. Okay, well
Speaker 1: we'll head up to Burbank and as soon as they
Speaker 1: open up, fly home. And when they came, first they
Speaker 1: came and went. And you remember Johnny Barbs, So Johnny
Speaker 1: was good friends with Whoopi Goldberg. Evidently Whoopi Goldberg doesn't
Speaker 1: fly or doesn't fly a lot, and she had a
Speaker 1: tricked out luxury bus. So when she used to go
Speaker 1: to New York, she had these two drivers I think
Speaker 1: they were Vietnam vets. One would go for ten hours
Speaker 1: then sleep, next one would go, you know, only stopping
Speaker 1: for gas. And they could do it, I don't know,
Speaker 1: fifty hours coast to coast. And so we actually sat
Speaker 1: in the lobby at the Four Seasons, going, are we
Speaker 1: gonna wait for the planes, you know, to be able
Speaker 1: to fly or do we get on a bus now
Speaker 1: with the idea that in two days will be home
Speaker 1: by in l Roger and Sylvie I remember stayed and
Speaker 1: waited for the planes, and they did end up getting
Speaker 1: home before we did. The rest of us. Um. Val Um.
Speaker 1: Liz Rosenberg, who didn't have kids, Um, Helen Murphy and
Speaker 1: I decided we'd rather just be moving, you know, because
Speaker 1: otherwise we could be sitting there for another. To top
Speaker 1: it all off, the night before, I got food poisoning.
Speaker 1: So I've been up all night long and I'm completely green. Um.
Speaker 1: And what we had a nice bed because I was
Speaker 1: so sick. They gave me the bed and no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: she just gave she and this is out of the
Speaker 1: goodness of her heart. UM. So Liz Rosenberg would come
Speaker 1: in and kind of you know, pat my head down,
Speaker 1: and at night she and I I would say, I
Speaker 1: slept with Liz Rosenberg, you know, going across country. Um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And they had satellite TV so we could watch CNN,
Speaker 1: but there was still no real communication in time time
Speaker 1: with New York. Um. Yeah, so did the bus drop
Speaker 1: you off your front door? You know? The bus dropped
Speaker 1: val off in New Jersey and then the rest of
Speaker 1: us were all Manhattan, Westchester, Connecticut. Um. So they picked
Speaker 1: place um in Tarrytone, actually a mall, and you know,
Speaker 1: we and they told us beforehand, So we all told
Speaker 1: you know, whoever was going to pick us up meet
Speaker 1: us here around this time. And what was it like
Speaker 1: being on the bus with these people for fifty hours? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, like everyone else in America, we were all
Speaker 1: just shell shocked and people were trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean I had been I'd driven cross
Speaker 1: country before, so that wasn't particularly a novel. But you
Speaker 1: were going that fast without stops. Okay, what were some
Speaker 1: of the experiences there at time at Warner Music? Um,
Speaker 1: what were some of the experiences. Well, what I know
Speaker 1: is it ultimately that Roger was trying to do mergers. Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: so that's right. So so when the A O LL
Speaker 1: deal was announced, Roger was trying to merge Warner with
Speaker 1: am I part one. Um. So I spent the better
Speaker 1: part of a year, as did many lawyers. That's how
Speaker 1: I got to Dick Parsons quite well, because the bigger
Speaker 1: issue was Brussels, not Washington, d C. European commissioners. So
Speaker 1: I learned a lot about European anti trust and you know,
Speaker 1: all the things that go into it. And in the end, um,
Speaker 1: the European Commission decided that in order to approve the
Speaker 1: A O. L. Time Warner deal, that Time Warner would
Speaker 1: have to give up the E M I deal. UM.
Speaker 1: And Dick Parsons will say to this day we got
Speaker 1: the wrong deal through through Brussels um, and that that
Speaker 1: was like a ten month process. But it was also
Speaker 1: lovely for me because I got to know Dick quite
Speaker 1: well because by then, you know, Jerry's the CEO and
Speaker 1: Cases the chairman, and Bob was running kind of all
Speaker 1: the divisions with the exception of music and film, and
Speaker 1: so you know, Dick was a lawyer, he was you know,
Speaker 1: had political background, and he was responsible for music. UM.
Speaker 1: Got on very well with Roger, you know, so he
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time trying to shepherd this thing through. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: didn't happen. Um. And then at one point I think
Speaker 1: Roger explored something with BMG, but were Sony Um, but
Speaker 1: there were. And then when the Sony BMG thing happened,
Speaker 1: obviously it went from five majors to four, which made
Speaker 1: it that much more difficult to do another deal. And
Speaker 1: when Jeff Bucas decided both because what do they call
Speaker 1: it negative growth um uh, to get rid of them
Speaker 1: the music Company two thousand three two four or printed
Speaker 1: up for sale because you know, given how much it
Speaker 1: was declining, no real light on the horizon, all the
Speaker 1: napster stuff and UM as well as trying to pay
Speaker 1: down some of the A O Well debt UM and
Speaker 1: that was kind of floating around for a while. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: as you know, it came down to UM, E, M,
Speaker 1: I and UH and Edgar Bronfman. And in the end,
Speaker 1: I think Jeff made the decision to go with Bronfman
Speaker 1: because he didn't want to spend ten months in Brussels
Speaker 1: trying to get any more. Gave it away a fewer
Speaker 1: than three billion dollars two point eight billion. And now
Speaker 1: if you figure Universal and I actually talked to a
Speaker 1: banker last night whom validated this, if Universal with the
Speaker 1: ten cent deal is now valued at thirty three billion
Speaker 1: and Warner giver take is about half the size. I mean,
Speaker 1: you can argue about the assets and publishing and everything
Speaker 1: probably worth at least fifteen billion now, so in sixteen years,
Speaker 1: just by continuing to be an operation it was worth
Speaker 1: that much. Where does that leave you when uh it
Speaker 1: ultimately happens. Well, Roger, you know, had made a boatload
Speaker 1: of money and decided he wanted to move back to London,
Speaker 1: and there wasn't probably a seat at the table for him,
Speaker 1: at least immediately. UM and Dick Parson said I really
Speaker 1: want you to stay with Time Warner, and about a
Speaker 1: week later said you should meet Anne Moore. She's our
Speaker 1: new chairman of Time Ink. I think you get along
Speaker 1: with her. She wants her own communications person. And so
Speaker 1: I literally walked half a block from seventy five Rock
Speaker 1: to the Time Life Building met Anne was hired. I
Speaker 1: got my payoff from Warner Music, and I think a
Speaker 1: week later started at Time Inc. Um. But it was
Speaker 1: a culture shock. I mean, no one in the music
Speaker 1: business ever asked me if I went to college where
Speaker 1: I went to college where I studied. And I'm not
Speaker 1: saying it's a good or bad thing, but all of
Speaker 1: a sudden I'm on the executive floor of the Time
Speaker 1: Life Building, down the hall from where Henry Luce used
Speaker 1: to sit, not the only person without an Ivy League degree. UM.
Speaker 1: Again fascinating, and I walked in by the way at
Speaker 1: the time of the whole Scooter Libby UM Judy Miller
Speaker 1: trial UM, which ended up the Supreme Court didn't hear it,
Speaker 1: but it went up to the court after that, which
Speaker 1: just you know, took over everything. Um because unlike the
Speaker 1: New York Times, because the New York Times never published it.
Speaker 1: Judy Miller, you know, was on the hook for it.
Speaker 1: But Time Magazine and the Washington um or the White
Speaker 1: House Reporter published something about the league, and therefore Time
Speaker 1: Magazine was also being sued. UM. And Norm Pearlstein, who
Speaker 1: was editor in chief at the time now editor of
Speaker 1: the l A Times, you know, absolutely brilliant, also a
Speaker 1: lawyer by training. Um. You know, it was really running
Speaker 1: a lot of the strategy. But it was super tricky.
Speaker 1: You know, if the highest legal entity says you need
Speaker 1: to do something in this case turn over your notes, um,
Speaker 1: it's hard to say, no, I don't agree with you. UM.
Speaker 1: But yet turning over notes are supposed to be confidential
Speaker 1: for journalistic organization is just about the worst you know,
Speaker 1: sin you can um, you can have. And again this
Speaker 1: this went on for a long time while the White
Speaker 1: House Reporter that was part of this whole thing, you know,
Speaker 1: at a young kid was terrified about getting thrown in
Speaker 1: jail in the case of duty Miller and I didn't
Speaker 1: know Judy at all. I mean I sat in some meetings.
Speaker 1: The thinking was because she was behind some of the
Speaker 1: weapons of mass destruction, you know, a rocky coverage for
Speaker 1: The Times that she sort of wanted to you know,
Speaker 1: make up for that, and if she was gonna you know,
Speaker 1: bite the bullet, you know, she would. Um. Ultimately, I
Speaker 1: guess right before they were going to be sentence sentenced.
Speaker 1: And I have no idea why they did this, um,
Speaker 1: but Carl Rose, attorney said, you know you're free to
Speaker 1: do you know, if you need to turn it over,
Speaker 1: turn it over. Uh, and that let us off the hook. Judy,
Speaker 1: I think did go to jail for a couple of months. UM.
Speaker 1: Very interesting stuff. So what was it like, what was
Speaker 1: your role of what was your experience in the belly
Speaker 1: of the beast? Well, um, I mean it got so
Speaker 1: much coverage, I mean every day from so many different outlets.
Speaker 1: I mean it was TV coverage. It was if there
Speaker 1: was a court hearing, you know, camera is all over,
Speaker 1: you know. And it wasn't just the New York Times,
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal, you know, it was Newsweek and UM
Speaker 1: and things like the New York Observer. UM, you know,
Speaker 1: international papers were looking at this so it was a
Speaker 1: big deal and you had to figure you know, you
Speaker 1: had to figure out, based on the events of that
Speaker 1: time that that particular day or event, what you were
Speaker 1: going to say, and you would figure it out or
Speaker 1: you're you're right it and then ask uh. Well, I
Speaker 1: worked closely with Norman and the other lawyers involved. I
Speaker 1: mean I certainly was not in a position to do
Speaker 1: anything laterally in a case that big. I would never
Speaker 1: do anything, you know, without a lawyer anyway. Okay, Now
Speaker 1: it's ironic that that was run by Ivy League people
Speaker 1: and that created when the music business went up. What
Speaker 1: was that experience for you? Well, in the beginning, remember
Speaker 1: Time magazine was one of the premier and one of
Speaker 1: the largest and most prestigious media companies of the century. Um.
Speaker 1: And even when I got there, we would still do
Speaker 1: talks with with you know, Justice Scalia, Senator Obama when
Speaker 1: he was still senator um. Uh. You know, I can
Speaker 1: remember Steve Jobs coming in, you know, the show people
Speaker 1: the iPhone. Um. I mean people still cared about those titles.
Speaker 1: And I'm not just talking about Time and Fortune. I
Speaker 1: mean from the entertainment side, obviously, people Entertainment Weekly. Um.
Speaker 1: From a sports side Sports Illustrated. I mean you could
Speaker 1: sort of get to anyone in any area, and publishing
Speaker 1: was still relatively healthy until maybe two thousand seven or eight,
Speaker 1: when you know, both consumer behavior changed, meaning getting their
Speaker 1: news from the internet, and advertisers change, meaning you know,
Speaker 1: advertising either on social platforms or the internet. Um. And
Speaker 1: I felt I felt so much deja vu because I
Speaker 1: was like, I've been there before, I've seen this movie,
Speaker 1: and people sometimes would look at me like you see
Speaker 1: around corners. It's it's like, no, I just have kind
Speaker 1: of seen this movie. Because I would say music business
Speaker 1: was the canary in the coal mine for digital disruption. Well,
Speaker 1: I remember at some time Warner offsite, Um, some of
Speaker 1: the film guys were basically you music people, and Roger
Speaker 1: was so fired up and he's just like, you know,
Speaker 1: you just wait until those pipes are bigger and it's
Speaker 1: going to be your turn to How did the people
Speaker 1: at the top when, when and how did they wake up?
Speaker 1: What did that look like? Well, they were very smart people. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean they may not have grown up in internet world.
Speaker 1: Um uh, But I remember, um Going Out was then
Speaker 1: the All Things deconference, now the Recode conference with Anne
Speaker 1: Moore and it was almost like she got real. I mean,
Speaker 1: now all the big media people do it, but at
Speaker 1: the time it was a very techy thing and she
Speaker 1: was one of the first traditional media accompany people to go.
Speaker 1: And we you know, at the time time had a
Speaker 1: magazine Business two point oh, and the Business two point
Speaker 1: oh editor worked with her quick study. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: did some Q and A like this and the things.
Speaker 1: You know. Either she didn't get right the first time,
Speaker 1: she got right the second time, UM and UM. And
Speaker 1: I think the fact, you know, she kind of raised
Speaker 1: her hand and said, we want to be in business
Speaker 1: with you. And whether it's doing deals or you know,
Speaker 1: sharing content. Um. You know, she got real credit for that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I still remember their special edition was George
Speaker 1: Lucas and more and Steve Jobs, and I thought, okay,
Speaker 1: that's not bad. Okay, did you interact with Steve Jobs
Speaker 1: when Rod Raames was Yeah, because actually, UM, for the
Speaker 1: development of the iTunes store, Warner was the first company
Speaker 1: in and I'm not sure what the historical precedents for
Speaker 1: that was, but I went out two or three times
Speaker 1: and um to Coopertino just with Roger with the way
Speaker 1: or a digital guy to talk through, and Roger's pitch
Speaker 1: two jobs was, it's like the mafia families do not
Speaker 1: try to get all five companies to agree on things.
Speaker 1: You know, you decide what you want, we'll make the
Speaker 1: introduction to Universal. You have number one and two companies. Um,
Speaker 1: And that's what happened. I mean, everyone else was just
Speaker 1: goofing around or well, I just Roger told me. He
Speaker 1: told Universal, Uh, either you're in or from resigning from
Speaker 1: the r I double A. Well he did tell the
Speaker 1: r I double A I am not going to be
Speaker 1: part of suing consumers for illegal downloading until we give
Speaker 1: them a legal option. Okay, but did you actually hang
Speaker 1: around jobs? Do you have any insights there? Uh? I
Speaker 1: won't say. Well, actually, after Warner Music was sold, he
Speaker 1: asked me to come out and meet the Pixar people
Speaker 1: about working for Pixar. And I only realized afterwards. You
Speaker 1: sort of start with HR and then if you anyone
Speaker 1: continue I didn't realize that. And it's kind of I
Speaker 1: think a Silicon Valley thing. And if you pass with
Speaker 1: UM HR, you got I don't know, legal and then
Speaker 1: you go to finance and you know, then you end
Speaker 1: up with you know, uh, John Lasseter and UM. And
Speaker 1: then at the end of you know, a long day,
Speaker 1: they said, you know, you should go over to Cupertino
Speaker 1: and UM and meet with Steve again. UM. Now, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure that I would have been offered the job,
Speaker 1: but I also knew that I didn't want to move
Speaker 1: to northern California. I mean, my family was quite young,
Speaker 1: you know, my extended family, most of them were in
Speaker 1: New York. UM. And after while the tunnel in my
Speaker 1: work life, UM, I became very focused on you can't
Speaker 1: make work the center and you know if it doesn't
Speaker 1: fit in the rest of your life, because that can
Speaker 1: go away and your rest of your life is not
Speaker 1: going to go away. Well, I guess you worked with
Speaker 1: an or of experience, a lot of big personalities. What
Speaker 1: did you learn about these titans of the industry. Well,
Speaker 1: some of them had um amazing manners. UM. I mean,
Speaker 1: Dick was is just the most polite person. I mean
Speaker 1: I could send Dick a book and I would get
Speaker 1: a personalized thank you note. I mean from from from
Speaker 1: the chairman. UM. Rogers, you know, is very blunt but
Speaker 1: also polite in his UM, in his own way. I'm
Speaker 1: certainly not a screamer. You know, I worked a lot
Speaker 1: with Chris Blackwell, both in my consulting business and when
Speaker 1: he was at Ireland. Um I was so I was
Speaker 1: probably more intimidated by Chris and anyone else in the
Speaker 1: beginning at PolyGram because to me he was such a legend.
Speaker 1: He signed my two favorite artists of all time, which
Speaker 1: are two and who by um. And he was so
Speaker 1: cool that before one of these conferences that I told
Speaker 1: you about where there were only three women, Golden Eye
Speaker 1: hadn't opened yet. He was still his personal home even
Speaker 1: though he was building out the um the Hudson Villas.
Speaker 1: He invited the three of us down for the weekend
Speaker 1: before the conference started. I was like, how cool is that? Right? Um? No,
Speaker 1: And he's someone who I guess like Steve Jobs, very
Speaker 1: different personally, but he had a vision. Even if everyone
Speaker 1: else didn't agree with the vision, he was going to
Speaker 1: go with that vision. You know, it is to think
Speaker 1: different things. Okay, so you were one on one with
Speaker 1: Steve Jobs. Uh yeah, but the Pixar thing, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I was how long did that last? Was he blunt?
Speaker 1: Was he nice? He was blunt? And he wasn't not nice?
Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't say he was warm and fuzzy.
Speaker 1: I also at that time this would have been I
Speaker 1: guess two thousand three or four ish. Because I didn't
Speaker 1: come from a tech world. I didn't realize that Steve
Speaker 1: Jobs was like this. I mean, I know, a big deale.
Speaker 1: Apple was a big deal, but Apple was not not
Speaker 1: at the time, you know, the most valuable company in
Speaker 1: the world. Steve Jobs wasn't mus around the world that
Speaker 1: way outside of you know, kind of a business and
Speaker 1: tech community. Um. So I didn't know enough to be intimidated.
Speaker 1: I guess, Okay, So how does it end with time? Uh?
Speaker 1: The chairman retired after thirty seven years. And she was
Speaker 1: an interesting story. I mean, she spent her Harvard Business School.
Speaker 1: Right out of Harvard Business School, first class of women.
Speaker 1: There weren't even female bathrooms when she was there. Um
Speaker 1: gets offered thirteen jobs, lowest paying, most time, inc And
Speaker 1: again she liked magazine. She didn't want to be a banker,
Speaker 1: and she went there and made more money than she
Speaker 1: would have anywhere else. And she was kind of known
Speaker 1: as the launch queen. You know, she developed in style
Speaker 1: with the idea that um, you know, women don't just
Speaker 1: want the aspirational Vogue. Look, they want the practical work,
Speaker 1: and I buy it. How much does a cost? Which
Speaker 1: became incredibly successful, not just in the US but around
Speaker 1: the world. Um, she launched and more. She launched Real Simple.
Speaker 1: You know, the idea that the average American woman spends
Speaker 1: twenty minutes a day looking for something. If you can
Speaker 1: help them organize their life, you give them time back,
Speaker 1: which is more valuable than anything. Um. She changed people
Speaker 1: from black and white to color because who wants to
Speaker 1: look at black and white oscar dresses? Um? Uh? And
Speaker 1: she had um this is before my time. But when
Speaker 1: she was general manager of Sports Illustrated and I guess
Speaker 1: this would have been late eighties early nineties, they told
Speaker 1: her because she was a woman, she was never going
Speaker 1: to be president publisher of Sports Illustrated. UM. And Timing
Speaker 1: also like to move people around, so it wasn't the
Speaker 1: end of the world. But at that point ESPNO just launched.
Speaker 1: She's like, we should take a piece of this because
Speaker 1: this is s I on TV. And they didn't listen
Speaker 1: to her, so she resigns. Oh, she retires, I mean um.
Speaker 1: And then Jeff brought in a guy, Jeff Bukus, who
Speaker 1: was so CEO Dick had retired a few years before
Speaker 1: as as Time Warners CEO, Jeff Road and a guy. Um.
Speaker 1: And you know, Jeff's focus was never publishing, and publishing
Speaker 1: was starting to decline. So I think he just wanted
Speaker 1: was an m B A. You know, he went to Yale.
Speaker 1: Jeff went to Yale. They were not like stylistically at all. Um.
Speaker 1: And as people do, this guy came in and kind
Speaker 1: of took everyone out on that senior level, um, particularly
Speaker 1: women and the only black man I will say at
Speaker 1: the senior level. Um. But it was done in such
Speaker 1: a ham fisted way that after five months he was fired.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't a euphemism about pursuing other opportunities. It
Speaker 1: was like, now this didn't work out, bad culture fit me.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he got a very big check, um. But
Speaker 1: I do give a lot of credit for Jeff that
Speaker 1: he didn't double down, you know, with more people leaving
Speaker 1: in more damage. Um. Yeah, tid is it in with
Speaker 1: you with that new Yeah. So I got I got
Speaker 1: a you know, like a bunch of people um that
Speaker 1: he wanted to replace us. I got another substantial check. Um.
Speaker 1: And because I had always gone from corporate job to
Speaker 1: corporate job. And I had about a month or two
Speaker 1: of like cleaning up at Time Inc. And I started
Speaker 1: getting phone calls. The Harvard Business Review is run by
Speaker 1: some x Time guys, and they're like, you know, we'd
Speaker 1: love it if you work with us for six months
Speaker 1: and we have some junior people and just kind of
Speaker 1: give us a template and organize things. And then UM,
Speaker 1: the general counsel of Sony, Julie Swidler, is a good
Speaker 1: friend of mine and UM. At the time, Rob Stringer
Speaker 1: was at Columbia and he had to stand, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you got it right. The hundred and fiftieth anniversary of Columbia,
Speaker 1: that big beautiful book, and you know it was a
Speaker 1: Pulitzer Prize winning author Sean Lens that wrote it, and
Speaker 1: and Rob really had a vision. They didn't want this
Speaker 1: to be a promotional thing. That he wanted it to
Speaker 1: really speak to the legacy and artistry of Columbia and
Speaker 1: its artists and you know those event at the Grammy Museum.
Speaker 1: And so I worked with him on that. UM and
Speaker 1: then the best one was I got a call just
Speaker 1: from someone I knew, UM that knew Ken Parks Um
Speaker 1: saying you should go in and meet Ken Parks because
Speaker 1: Spotify is going to launch here. And the PR the
Speaker 1: woman that ran PR in London who since left, but
Speaker 1: um Angela Watt, brilliant, but she was sitting in London
Speaker 1: and it was launching in the US UM and she
Speaker 1: came back and forth a lot. At the time. I
Speaker 1: think they didn't have headcount or couldn't afford a full
Speaker 1: time person in the US, so they wanted someone essentially
Speaker 1: for the equivalent of three days a week to help
Speaker 1: them with the launch, and someone who had good US
Speaker 1: media contacts, and someone who understood the traditional music industry,
Speaker 1: the players, the business. And so before I even walk
Speaker 1: out the door, I've got these three great clients. And
Speaker 1: I never thought of myself as a consultant, and I
Speaker 1: always liked the idea of having a structure in the
Speaker 1: office camaraderie. But this was also so interesting to me
Speaker 1: because there was nothing that I was hearing about that
Speaker 1: was more interesting than the combination of these things. And
Speaker 1: other things came in and out. When the Harvard business
Speaker 1: went away, I got pulled into Martha Stewart, which was interesting.
Speaker 1: No after that, Lisa Gersh was running it at the time.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I like I decided I liked having the
Speaker 1: variety and and and and the combination and two thousandleven
Speaker 1: and it also and I don't think I articulated it
Speaker 1: to myself for anyone at the time, but in retrospect,
Speaker 1: it's like, sometimes when these things happen, you have to
Speaker 1: figure out how to reinvent yourself. And I tried to
Speaker 1: reinvent myself from a traditional you know, big company, traditional
Speaker 1: media person to someone kind of on this nexus of
Speaker 1: whether you want to say media or entertainment and tech um,
Speaker 1: which was where a lot of the future was going
Speaker 1: at this point in time. Do you troll for work
Speaker 1: or the clients find you? No, I don't really troll
Speaker 1: for work. UM. Uh, you know people. Okay. When Ken
Speaker 1: Parts left Spotify after um, you know, four years later,
Speaker 1: and he went to um another digital startup, Pluto TV,
Speaker 1: which is a free ad supported service, you know, he
Speaker 1: brought me in as a consultant. Um. You know. So
Speaker 1: it's all sort of the relationships stuff. UM. The SA
Speaker 1: Sack people hired me for a while because they wanted
Speaker 1: some help. They were doing some rebranding and UM okay,
Speaker 1: but let's stop with okay, Uh, what did you actually do?
Speaker 1: They were rebuilding their website. So some of it too
Speaker 1: was I was no longer just a publicist or even
Speaker 1: just a corporate communications person. It became broader in terms
Speaker 1: of you know, branding, communication shans and whether that meant materials,
Speaker 1: you know, websites, one sheet, whether that meant events. UM,
Speaker 1: you know, figure out what was right for the client
Speaker 1: and what they needed and what they wanted. What do
Speaker 1: you do for Spotify? Um? Well, for Spotify in the beginning,
Speaker 1: as I said, they didn't have anyone in the US. UM.
Speaker 1: And right off the bat we had UM big, big
Speaker 1: feature in in Business Week and Daniel was supposed to
Speaker 1: be on the cover. He did a photo shoot with
Speaker 1: Christina Aguilara. I went to Irving and said, this is
Speaker 1: great for her, and she's been all these magazine covers.
Speaker 1: I think it was just when the Voice was launching. UM,
Speaker 1: you know, she'll look cool. This will be good for everyone.
Speaker 1: UM an eight page feature. Unfortunately, it was the week
Speaker 1: that the Murdoch um uh scandal broke about um uh
Speaker 1: the news of the world stuff and UM. Josh Terangel,
Speaker 1: who was then the top editor at Business Week, called me.
Speaker 1: He said, I love the story. You're gonna love this story.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to tell you it's not going to be
Speaker 1: the cover anymore because we're Business Week and the business
Speaker 1: story of the week is Rupert Murdoch. Um. Okay, So
Speaker 1: at this late date in corporate publicity, is it the
Speaker 1: same usual suspect outlets? Well, I think some of kind
Speaker 1: of following by the wayside, and I think social obviously
Speaker 1: means a lot more. You have to have a social
Speaker 1: strategy and someone who understands that, um much more cycle. No,
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot more blogs. I'm actually first
Speaker 1: talking about your role, okay, because you're more in corporate publicity. Okay,
Speaker 1: so certainly with regular publicity the whole game has changed.
Speaker 1: But I think corporate I mean I would count you
Speaker 1: as someone, whether you want to say influencer or um,
Speaker 1: if I was trying to, you know, work on this
Speaker 1: story that had some kind of connection to the music industry,
Speaker 1: if not the wider entertainment industry. I mean, you're the
Speaker 1: kind of person that that I would go to because
Speaker 1: a lot of people, um, I don't know, you know
Speaker 1: how many people read you, but a lot of important
Speaker 1: people read you. Um, and a lot of people who
Speaker 1: care a lot maybe who care more than the people
Speaker 1: who read the New York Times. Well, let's go droll
Speaker 1: a little bit deeper. What do we know it used
Speaker 1: to be? If it was in the New York Times,
Speaker 1: everybody knew. Okay, as a result of the right denigrating
Speaker 1: the New York Times and as a result of so
Speaker 1: many media outlets, it's in the New York Times a
Speaker 1: smaller percentage of people, because don't forget that's an influencer.
Speaker 1: New York Times is not only an influence. So it's
Speaker 1: when the evening news is built off of right exactly.
Speaker 1: But there's no longer one outlet that can reach the
Speaker 1: country at large. Yes, New York Times will be reach
Speaker 1: everybody in Washington and people there. So how do you
Speaker 1: approach the game now? Well, I think let's stick with
Speaker 1: your New York Times. Um idea. You get a story
Speaker 1: in the New York Times. And even if this person,
Speaker 1: whether they're in Detroit or whether they're down the street
Speaker 1: here in Hollywood, um, you know, doesn't read the New
Speaker 1: York Times. We didn't see it. That's why you place
Speaker 1: it on your social channels or you blasts out an email. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's be very specific. If it's a business story. Do
Speaker 1: you say, well, you know, if I get in New
Speaker 1: York Times, I get a business week, it covers my
Speaker 1: target market. Or do you actually go to socials on
Speaker 1: a business story? Oh? No, you definitely go to socials. Um,
Speaker 1: what is what is the thinking? Um? Because a lot
Speaker 1: of people get their information from socials? Are those people
Speaker 1: you need to reach on a corporate level? I'm not
Speaker 1: sure that we know? It was interesting? Is you know?
Speaker 1: The Billboard Power Issue came out this week and just
Speaker 1: scrolling through Instagram, I was surprised at how many people
Speaker 1: that were named in the Power Issue printed up on
Speaker 1: their feeds. If you were named in the Power Issue,
Speaker 1: would you put it on your feed? I'm I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure I've never thought about that, and I don't think
Speaker 1: I will be named to the Power Issue. Um, I
Speaker 1: guess what I'm saying. Do we live in an era
Speaker 1: in the old area? You worked at Time inc? Self publicity?
Speaker 1: Self promotion was pooh pooh? Is that completely flipped? Well?
Speaker 1: Self promotion was pooh pood? But you had maybe at
Speaker 1: the fifteen thousand employees three thousand journalists. Journalists all have
Speaker 1: friends to their journalists, all of whom are very good
Speaker 1: at telling stories. So I mean, when I was at
Speaker 1: Warner Music, if the Wall Street Journal called, I don't
Speaker 1: think anyone would want to pick up the call because
Speaker 1: they would just feel like all I can do is
Speaker 1: just muck this up. You're at time ink and whatever
Speaker 1: the official line is, you had three thousand people with
Speaker 1: varying opinions, all getting out there on background find you,
Speaker 1: but all getting out there. Okay, So let's say a
Speaker 1: corporate when you worked with Spotify and not granted that
Speaker 1: started two thousand eleven, maybe that's not a good example.
Speaker 1: When you work with Pluto TV, did you uh use socials?
Speaker 1: I didn't personally because they had someone in house. I
Speaker 1: don't know whether it was part of the marketing department
Speaker 1: that was assigned that uh. And I don't feel like
Speaker 1: I have a particular expertise and social I just believe
Speaker 1: that you have to have UM for a business or
Speaker 1: an entity, consistent messaging. You should use best practice with
Speaker 1: how often you post on various UM on various platforms UM.
Speaker 1: You should have some kind of goal, whether it's you
Speaker 1: want to increase you know, viewers or users on x
Speaker 1: y Z platform. You should focus probably on no more
Speaker 1: than two platforms. UM Uh, you know, I don't believe
Speaker 1: in trying to do Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and
Speaker 1: YouTube and because question, Um, I think you kind of
Speaker 1: delude things. And I think in most most companies there's
Speaker 1: a more natural fit. Um. You know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm making this up. Maybe more mainstream you would use Facebook,
Speaker 1: maybe more insider. Okay, I use the example got Time
Speaker 1: Flies By. It's probably two thousand and eight, maybe even
Speaker 1: a couple of years later. Tom Petty had a new album. Now,
Speaker 1: someone who's paying a lot of attention to media, it
Speaker 1: was in every media outlet, I mean every are you
Speaker 1: writing about that? I'm offended, okay, by the same token people. Well,
Speaker 1: the average person is not paying as much attention as
Speaker 1: I am. So is carpet bombing publicity a good thing
Speaker 1: or a bad thing? Um? Well, I I don't think
Speaker 1: there's one answer to that. I think it depends on
Speaker 1: what the person or the project is. And I would
Speaker 1: say being authentic has always been important, but being authentic
Speaker 1: is more important now than ever. And people can really
Speaker 1: smell of fake. Um. And where's the audience that you're
Speaker 1: trying to reach yourself to? Um? And if they're not
Speaker 1: on this platform or in this outlet, I would put
Speaker 1: more energy into places where you're going to find people,
Speaker 1: whether you're existing people or your new people, would be
Speaker 1: my philosophy. Okay, let's start from the very beginning of today.
Speaker 1: What we know is we live in a cacophonoust tower
Speaker 1: of Babel society. Okay, and it's as I believe, people
Speaker 1: know more than they've ever known before because they have
Speaker 1: the device in their hand, but a great percentage of
Speaker 1: them don't know single things. I use an example of
Speaker 1: the music business Spotify top top fifty. They believe everybody
Speaker 1: knows Drake Salt if everybody knows Taylor's wist songs. But
Speaker 1: never in the history of modern pop music have fewer
Speaker 1: people been familiar with the so called hits. So how
Speaker 1: do you get a message across ro just say I'm
Speaker 1: gonna jump in the water like everybody else. I can't
Speaker 1: give you to me. It's out of one size fits
Speaker 1: all answer. It's what's your product, service, person, artist, um
Speaker 1: and what do you want to try to do? You
Speaker 1: want to maintain existing, you want to grow you're existing?
Speaker 1: You want to get new audiences. Who are those new audiences?
Speaker 1: Where are they? Are they demographic? Are they geographic. Um.
Speaker 1: I think you need to ask yourself that, um. Kind
Speaker 1: of every time is you're looking at where you want
Speaker 1: to put your effort. I mean, going back to your
Speaker 1: Tom Petty example, I mean Tom Petty only has so
Speaker 1: many hours to devote to doing media, So let's figure
Speaker 1: out what the priorities are. Well, let's use an example.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've been using this for a while, but
Speaker 1: everybody says, if we if I kill somebody out in
Speaker 1: the street and it's in the afternoon. Now, but let's
Speaker 1: assume it's nine in the morning, that will be news
Speaker 1: told about one o'clock and something else will happen thereafter. Okay,
Speaker 1: how do you keep something top of mind? Well, I
Speaker 1: think that's a problem that people have shorter attention spans, um.
Speaker 1: And we've seen that even with Trump, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, he tweets something outrageous when he wants to
Speaker 1: take attention away from something else. Um. Uh. People go
Speaker 1: to the media or the outlets that reflect what they think, um,
Speaker 1: and therefore reinforce what they're already thinking. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's a problem issue. I I don't have an answer
Speaker 1: for that one. Okay. Now, they're also things that everybody
Speaker 1: will know for a day and forget about. So are
Speaker 1: you better off with a slow burn campaign or you know,
Speaker 1: all hands on deck campaign? Well, okay, from an artist
Speaker 1: publicity standpoint, um, Certainly in the nineties the rule of
Speaker 1: thumb was, you know, ever put anyone on David Letterman
Speaker 1: until the CDs in the store, because if someone decides
Speaker 1: they loved that song they heard last night and they
Speaker 1: go the next day to Tower Records and it isn't there,
Speaker 1: that it is out of mind. Um. I think that's
Speaker 1: probably changed in a streaming world where everything is so
Speaker 1: available at your fingertips. But I think it's a good
Speaker 1: thing to think about, for um as you approach those things.
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, I guess a slow burning being there longer,
Speaker 1: or maybe figuring out how you phase things. You know,
Speaker 1: what's phase one, what's phase two, what's phase three? Well,
Speaker 1: that's one thing, you know. I think they're revolving. But
Speaker 1: that's what the music business doesn't understand, certainly with streaming
Speaker 1: paying forever assing you're being listened to. If you could
Speaker 1: weave a magic wand over the media industry, what would
Speaker 1: you want to change? Oh my gosh, Bob, I may
Speaker 1: have to write you back on this because I want
Speaker 1: to be very thoughtful and I'm not I've ever thought
Speaker 1: of waving a magic wand even though it is a
Speaker 1: lovely thought, UM, I'm not going to whip out and pass.
Speaker 1: I will write you on that. Well. I guess let
Speaker 1: me look at it this way. What are some of
Speaker 1: the flaws in the system that could be fixed? Fixed?
Speaker 1: This isn't necessarily a flaw, but I've been thinking about this.
Speaker 1: I had lunch with a friend who's at Netflix yesterday,
Speaker 1: um and and just kind of reading some of the
Speaker 1: people like you, um who you know cover the film industry,
Speaker 1: and all the studios are so mad because you know,
Speaker 1: Netflix is spending all this money and they're kind of
Speaker 1: trying to have their cake and eat it too, and
Speaker 1: you know, should marriage story be up for an oscar?
Speaker 1: And you know, and Netflix is sitting there just laughing
Speaker 1: because they have how many millions of people, you know
Speaker 1: as subscribers. They're still growing at whatever rate and you
Speaker 1: know what times change. I mean, that's like the music
Speaker 1: industry in in two thousands saying this napster thing is
Speaker 1: really unfair. And I think again, even as the consumer
Speaker 1: going to the going to the movies as a hassle. Um,
Speaker 1: gotta drive, you gotta park a lot of times the
Speaker 1: movies I want to see aren't playing anywhere near me. Um,
Speaker 1: the food is terrible. You watch twenty minutes of commercials,
Speaker 1: people talk or text through it. I'm going, how few
Speaker 1: movies do I want to see? And I think I
Speaker 1: said once a time in Hollywood in the theater and
Speaker 1: I saw Little Women because I wanted to go with
Speaker 1: my daughter, and I figured that was about holiday movie
Speaker 1: and it got good reviews. Everything else it's like why
Speaker 1: not wait? Or why not watch what's on Netflix tonight?
Speaker 1: Or I mean, I think this is going to be
Speaker 1: very fascinating for people watching the next year. And it's
Speaker 1: slightly off topic. But you have Netflix that's so entrenched.
Speaker 1: You have Disney which anyone with a kid under chan
Speaker 1: as we spent seven bucks a month. You have Apple
Speaker 1: that can bundle this, you know, whether it's with music
Speaker 1: or um yeah or free. But in any case, you know,
Speaker 1: if they can use this as a lost leader or
Speaker 1: marketing thing. Um, you know for a long time, and
Speaker 1: so I'm fascinating. You know, the compast is taking a
Speaker 1: different approach obviously, you know, free, free, free, free and
Speaker 1: back to the Pluto TV. There's enough people that want free,
Speaker 1: and we've got you know, the office, and we'll have
Speaker 1: sports and late night TV. Um, so free. I sort
Speaker 1: of set aside because it's a different I never subscribed
Speaker 1: to Hulu, and I'm sure it's great for people who
Speaker 1: like those shows, but I think most people agree there's
Speaker 1: a window of how many of these services you're going
Speaker 1: to do. Again. I look at my former company and
Speaker 1: I never worked for HBO, but I mean I was
Speaker 1: a huge Richard Pleppler fan, and I think that was
Speaker 1: one of the great brands companies, you know, of the
Speaker 1: last twenty years and what they've created. And I don't
Speaker 1: know about you. I'm really confused. Okay, Hbo HBO now
Speaker 1: HBO Go, HBO Max. I couldn't agree more. And you know,
Speaker 1: I still get tradition cable TV, so I get HBO.
Speaker 1: Does that mean I can get HBO Max? You know,
Speaker 1: as I say, I remember, I don't use my iPad
Speaker 1: that much, but I was out a ton of the
Speaker 1: iPad and you know, is it HBO Go or HBO Max?
Speaker 1: And they're exactly they were all the icons where you know,
Speaker 1: all the apps were there and I'm wasting time to
Speaker 1: figure out which one works, and then you have to
Speaker 1: go through jump through hoops under the best of circumstances
Speaker 1: just to get it to play. But okay, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure the point you're making. Well, just that the things change.
Speaker 1: And you know what we talked about the music was
Speaker 1: the canary in the coal mine. But you look at
Speaker 1: all these other forms of media and you have to
Speaker 1: adapt to change, whether it's a person like me or
Speaker 1: whether it's an industry, and you can't sort of look
Speaker 1: back and say the good old days. And I want Okay,
Speaker 1: let's let's drill down a little bit with this person
Speaker 1: from the film business yesterday. Could you wake them up?
Speaker 1: Or they just too far intoxix? So she's at the
Speaker 1: winning side. Okay, So if you were with the on
Speaker 1: the movie people, what would you tell them to do?
Speaker 1: Um Embrace change and mitigate your losses. There will be losses,
Speaker 1: whether it's losses forever or losses short term, but you're
Speaker 1: not going to turn back time. So, so you're a
Speaker 1: corporate publicity person, consultant, has that world grown or shrunk? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm not that deep in Silicon Valley, but my you know,
Speaker 1: sort of touching it. My feeling is that a lot
Speaker 1: of them when they start out use PR as a
Speaker 1: marketing tool as opposed to spending. It's not like they
Speaker 1: have big advertising campaigns or anything. Um. So I I
Speaker 1: think in that segment there also, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people are concerned about overhead. You know, if you
Speaker 1: hire me, you're not paying for my health insurance, you're
Speaker 1: not paying for my office space, you know, or any
Speaker 1: of the other things. And so you get my brains,
Speaker 1: my ideas, you know, my contacts. UM. Obviously not full
Speaker 1: time as a consultant unless it's agreed upon, you know,
Speaker 1: on a project basis, um. And maybe that's all you need.
Speaker 1: I mean, in a number of cases I've come in
Speaker 1: where they say, we love the person we have, but
Speaker 1: she's twenty five years old and we need someone to
Speaker 1: give him or her some guidance. Okay. So it's like
Speaker 1: the rest of the world, we're moving to an outsourcing
Speaker 1: gig economy. Yeah, I'm I mean, personally, I think I'm
Speaker 1: not sure that we're moving completely. And I think there
Speaker 1: will always be a place for in the house people,
Speaker 1: certainly at least in big companies. UM. But I think
Speaker 1: this feels more Um, this feels easier, especially for startups
Speaker 1: and smaller companies. It's okay, you're rutting your own business.
Speaker 1: You're not. You make a deal with someone to be
Speaker 1: a consultant. It's not full time. How do you manage
Speaker 1: the compensation in time? You dedicate well. I before I
Speaker 1: take on a project or an account, I try to
Speaker 1: understand what are your goals in the best case scenario.
Speaker 1: If we're sitting here three months from now or six
Speaker 1: months from now, and if they tell me I want
Speaker 1: to be on the cover of Fortune, I want a
Speaker 1: ten minute segment on the Today's Show. And it's something
Speaker 1: that I think that's completely unrealistic. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: you're not going to be happy at the end of
Speaker 1: this period. I'm not going to be happy because I'll
Speaker 1: feel like I'm not delivering for you. Um. But if
Speaker 1: you can sort of start by saying what are the goals,
Speaker 1: and even if the person can articulate the goals, working
Speaker 1: with them to say, okay, so do we need to
Speaker 1: change your website, get your messaging in shape? Do we
Speaker 1: need to do any media training? Are there are conferences
Speaker 1: we should be at, you know, speaking opportunities, what media
Speaker 1: outlets are you're most interested in, where do you want
Speaker 1: to build your relationships? Come to an agreement there, and
Speaker 1: then the next part is both for me to figure
Speaker 1: out this. This look like a two day a week project.
Speaker 1: I mean the equivalent of two days. Uh. You know
Speaker 1: if I wake up at six in the morning, which
Speaker 1: is you saw this morning, you know that that counts
Speaker 1: to it too, and you can you can kind of
Speaker 1: work from any word any time. Um, but I try
Speaker 1: to figure out it is it a two day project,
Speaker 1: three day project? You know? And agree. I don't like
Speaker 1: to do stuff really under six months because it just
Speaker 1: takes a while to get into the rhythm of understanding
Speaker 1: the people in the business and kind of coming up
Speaker 1: with ideas and a lot of it's sitting around and
Speaker 1: bouncing things off of each other. Okay, let's assume it's
Speaker 1: two days a week. But the person calls your five
Speaker 1: days a week and you've already put in fifteen hours. Okay, well, okay,
Speaker 1: then I should have added. The other thing I said
Speaker 1: is when we come to an agreement about a price
Speaker 1: and two days a week, I said, let's re examine
Speaker 1: this after a month or two months, and if I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm pretty more into it. I'd like to
Speaker 1: come back and talk to you about renegotiating. In turn,
Speaker 1: if I feel like either you're in a slow period
Speaker 1: or there isn't a whole lot I can do until
Speaker 1: the summer, you know, you can come back. That should
Speaker 1: not be at etchton Stone. I mean, I'm pretty okay.
Speaker 1: So let's assume the company is realistic and they come
Speaker 1: to you and they say, well, in the next three months,
Speaker 1: even though a six month deal, I want to be
Speaker 1: on the cover of Fortune and I want to be
Speaker 1: on some news program. Can you deliver that? It depends
Speaker 1: on who the person is. Do you have those relationships? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, so you have those. So basically, any
Speaker 1: media outlet you have somebody there that you can pitch.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you any media outlet, and some of
Speaker 1: the TV stuff, UM, I probably don't, but I know
Speaker 1: someone that can introduce me. Okay, what is the number
Speaker 1: one for a business story? The number one TV outlet? Well, CNBC,
Speaker 1: you know means a lot to people. Um, I'll tell you.
Speaker 1: And this is a little bit of people miss this.
Speaker 1: You know. One of the only successful parts of Yahoo
Speaker 1: is Yahoo Finance, and they get eighteen million uniques a month,
Speaker 1: and they, sir were the guy who runs it used
Speaker 1: to Runfortune and he's built this great, great business within Yahoo.
Speaker 1: And they now do like six hours of video a day.
Speaker 1: And I've had people on there, and because so many
Speaker 1: people still go to Yahoo, you know, for stock information
Speaker 1: or whatever, there's a lot of good feedback. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that's necessarily number one, but it's, um, you know,
Speaker 1: it's also finding things like that. So if they have
Speaker 1: that much video a day, how hard is it to
Speaker 1: get something on? You know? Sometimes I've told yes, sometimes
Speaker 1: I've told no. Okay, Well if you're told no, when
Speaker 1: you go back, ah, if I can make the story better, okay?
Speaker 1: And then print what is the best place? Well, a
Speaker 1: lot of people still care a lot if they have
Speaker 1: any international footprint. The ft is sort of the gold
Speaker 1: standard financial times and then um, you know, the New
Speaker 1: York Times and Wall Street journals still count a lot.
Speaker 1: I mean I always tell everyone I think the New
Speaker 1: York Post is super important because a lot of people
Speaker 1: at least in New York read it absolutely. Howard Stern
Speaker 1: is talking about I mean Dick Parsons. When he would
Speaker 1: get picked up, he'd always tell me at the Times,
Speaker 1: the journal in the post, because the post is where
Speaker 1: you get your finger on what people are talking about. Um.
Speaker 1: And they have a good business section, again held to
Speaker 1: a different standard and following somewhat different stories. But they're
Speaker 1: smart people and good reporters. So what is the future
Speaker 1: of print? I think the New York Time was sick
Speaker 1: with our favorite, The New York Times. I think they've
Speaker 1: shown that they've figured out a reasonable digital model. UM.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know all the numbers, but they're growing,
Speaker 1: both in terms of members and in terms of revenue.
Speaker 1: I think the big will get bigger and the small,
Speaker 1: sadly will probably fade it with Well, let's put it
Speaker 1: this way. I'm voracious news consumer. I get the physical
Speaker 1: newspapers too, so and I pour over them. But I'm
Speaker 1: checking the apps innumerable times a day, and you cannot
Speaker 1: get into the depth on the app, and you miss
Speaker 1: things on the app that you will see exactly what
Speaker 1: I tell people, You know, if they look at me
Speaker 1: like I'm, you know, a ludic for still getting the
Speaker 1: print issues, I say, there's a sense of serendipity of
Speaker 1: things that I don't even know that I'm if I'm
Speaker 1: turning every page and I do. I read those three
Speaker 1: papers every day and the Financial Times on the weekend. Um,
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, I mean sometimes I
Speaker 1: look at different magazines. Obviously, sometimes I dive in if
Speaker 1: I see something online that interests me. Um. But I
Speaker 1: think you can kind of cover a lot of important
Speaker 1: stuff if you deal with those Well, I guess I'm
Speaker 1: going the other way when print goes away. If you
Speaker 1: get a story on the app and it's buried, will
Speaker 1: anybody see? I mean, they're big stories, like I don't think.
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying is in Well, the New
Speaker 1: York Times have a print, should know, but maybe they
Speaker 1: will figure out a different way presenting it so that
Speaker 1: for people like us, you get more of the you know,
Speaker 1: serendipitous discovery. Um, I don't. I think the New York
Speaker 1: Times has even said it's print is not going away
Speaker 1: for us, you know, in the near term. What about
Speaker 1: Apple News Plus? Um? Apple News Plus. I love as
Speaker 1: a consumer because I'm not sure I want to pay
Speaker 1: a hundred dollars for the Hollywood Reporter or for Business Week.
Speaker 1: But I like being and when I was, you know,
Speaker 1: I would find they were just stacking up and then
Speaker 1: I go. There's too much work to go through this, um,
Speaker 1: but I love having the access to it. Either if
Speaker 1: there's a certain story I'm following, or you can enter
Speaker 1: something you know you want to go back and read
Speaker 1: what they said about you know, Rupert Murdoch. Here, Um,
Speaker 1: just type it in. You know, You've got the last
Speaker 1: seven years of archives, which I think is a great gift.
Speaker 1: The question I think for Apple News is how did
Speaker 1: the providers feel and are they getting um compensated to
Speaker 1: the degree that they feel. The one thing for sure
Speaker 1: is h subscriptions are amazingly low and they were all frontloaded. Uh,
Speaker 1: but I'm interested. Do you check Apple News Plus on
Speaker 1: any specific device? Usually my iPad? Yeah, because I say,
Speaker 1: I'm on my phone a lot and News Plus doesn't
Speaker 1: work that much. Now. I don't like anything I have
Speaker 1: to read. I don't I don't like on my phone. UM,
Speaker 1: I like the bigger screen. So what's the future for
Speaker 1: you personally, the future of my media consumption or media
Speaker 1: career career? Uh, I'm not sure I ever plotted out
Speaker 1: my future, and I'm not sure that I am now.
Speaker 1: I I feel very lucky that I had the experiences
Speaker 1: and met the people that I have and UM, you know,
Speaker 1: I told you I've got a twenty four year old
Speaker 1: and twenty two year old, So I feel you know,
Speaker 1: not only do I love them, but I got two
Speaker 1: great kids out of two great colleges, both working. Um.
Speaker 1: I like the flexibility too, of traveling. I mean, this summer,
Speaker 1: my daughter and I wanted to go to Croatia. We
Speaker 1: went to Croatia. You know, my son turned Next year
Speaker 1: he wants to go to Japan. We'll go to Japan.
Speaker 1: I mean that to me is a gift because I
Speaker 1: didn't have that flexibility for a long time. I did
Speaker 1: a lot of traveling, both for work and for fun,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't just like Okay, let's go now and
Speaker 1: I can. Okay, you have a client, you go to Croatia,
Speaker 1: what do you tell him, Um, I'm going to be gone.
Speaker 1: I'll tell okay, email once a day, once a day,
Speaker 1: maybe more. Okay, So you feel fulfilled very much? So okay,
Speaker 1: don this has been great, Thanks so much for talking
Speaker 1: about Okay, until next time. This is Bob left Sex