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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Before we get into the episode, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about a fundraiser we're doing now. Last year,

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Speaker 1: y'all funded basically the entirety of the Portland Diaper Bank,

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Speaker 1: which provides free diapers to people who are in you know,

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Speaker 1: financial crisis and whatnot. Um, we're doing that fundraiser again.

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Speaker 1: We're trying to raise dollars to fund the Portland Diaper

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Speaker 1: Bank for the year. If you want to donate some

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Speaker 1: cash to them, you can go to go fund me

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Speaker 1: diaper need and COVID nineteen response. If you just google

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Speaker 1: go fund me, diaper need and COVID nineteen response, it

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Speaker 1: should take you to the fundraiser. You can also find

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Speaker 1: my pinned tweet on my Twitter at I right, okay,

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Speaker 1: we'll take you right there. So diaper need and COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteen response on go fund me. Thank you all so much.

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Speaker 1: Buck you that's the introduction. Just just fuck you people

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Speaker 1: who listen and give us an income, nice comfortable life.

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Speaker 1: Not you, Jamie, just the audience. Just just the people

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Speaker 1: who support us with their ears just out the gate.

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Speaker 1: Fuck them. That's right. What are you gonna do about it?

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Speaker 1: You know, listen to another podcast like there are other

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Speaker 1: podcasts like you have other options, like there's a flooded

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Speaker 1: marketplace of things exactly like what I do that you

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Speaker 1: could just turn to. I don't think so, and don't

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Speaker 1: investigate otherwise. No, please don't search podcasts on Spotify. I

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Speaker 1: feel like what you just said all could have come

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Speaker 1: out of Dr Phil's mouth at one point the second

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Speaker 1: the cameras start off for his show. Well, Jamie, the

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Speaker 1: orca is out of the tank, um, because that is

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Speaker 1: the subject of today's episode. Um. And also, you're Jamie Loft,

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Speaker 1: is my guest on the show that this is the Bastards?

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Speaker 1: Yes it is. It is behind the Bastards, and and

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm here. I'm mainly here to bring the Dr

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Speaker 1: Phil a s R videos this week. Excited is the

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Speaker 1: wrong word. Dreading. Dreading is the right word. I'm dreading that, Jamie.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna either really love them or really hate them,

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Speaker 1: and I can't figure out which it's gonna be. I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine loving them because they involve Dr Phil, and

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Speaker 1: I think he's gonna love you know. It's one of

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Speaker 1: those things. We just did the Doctor Oz episodes and

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Speaker 1: Doctor Oz also bad. Obviously, he was on this show,

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Speaker 1: But you have to respect him because he is a

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Speaker 1: brilliant doctor. Like, he's a man who, for all of

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Speaker 1: the harm he's done by spreading pseudoscience, has performed like

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Speaker 1: five thousand successful open heart surgeries, which is an achievement,

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Speaker 1: you know, and has patented a bunch of useful medical

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Speaker 1: devices and stuff. Um, he's He's a person who's made

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Speaker 1: like bafflingly selfish decisions that I don't respect. But as

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Speaker 1: a person, I have to have some level of respect

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Speaker 1: for the things that he has achieved because he's impressive.

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Speaker 1: Dr Phil is just a piece of ship. Dr Phil

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Speaker 1: is just straight up trash. We were we were talking

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Speaker 1: about this, Mike. There there was some Doctor Drew drama

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles this week that actually like for once

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Speaker 1: ended well and online bullying um like persevered and Doctor

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Speaker 1: Drew was like nominated to the Los Angeles Homeless Services

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Speaker 1: of Authority like board and what is Okay, I don't

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Speaker 1: know Dr Drew. What is what does Dr Drew do?

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming he's a nonsense doctor like all of the

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Speaker 1: other doctors we talked about. He may be technically a doctor,

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Speaker 1: I'm not totally sure, but he was I think he's

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Speaker 1: a radio doctor. He also mediates uh the reunions of

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Speaker 1: teen mom and teen mom two and sixteen in pregnant

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Speaker 1: and causes uh damage to lots of lots of young

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Speaker 1: minds all the time. He technically does have he is

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Speaker 1: a doctor. I don't know if he's currently licensed, but

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Speaker 1: I know him from DH one in like middle school,

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Speaker 1: where he had just been ahab Drew Sex Rehab with

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Speaker 1: Dr Drew, Celebrity Rehab presents sober House and all that

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Speaker 1: sounds like my nightmare, Like that sounds that sounds like

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Speaker 1: the hell that I would go to is sober house.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I could have I could have shortened my

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Speaker 1: description and said he's Adam Carolla's best friend, which is

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Speaker 1: also true, which is like we really Oh yeah, he

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Speaker 1: hosted like a famous radio show called love Line Forever,

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Speaker 1: and Adam Carolla was also on the show, and they're

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Speaker 1: they're close, and so yeah. He was nominated to serve

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Speaker 1: on the Homeless Authority Board and uh it took it

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Speaker 1: only took about a day, where like active Is just

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Speaker 1: bullied him into bullying people into withdrawing the nomination pretty quickly,

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Speaker 1: and he had a few spicy little comments about it. Um,

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Speaker 1: he was like, I can't like. He basically was like,

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Speaker 1: these online bullies are trying to cancel me for not

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Speaker 1: being a good and irrelevant for this job. So you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes bad doctor's fault, I like, I love to see it. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's fascinating. I'm so happy to have learned about Dr Drew.

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Speaker 1: But today we're talking about Dr Phil and it's it's

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Speaker 1: time to get in get into the it's time to

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Speaker 1: have us a phil gasmka a mgros um mgrasam magras

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Speaker 1: mgasm yeah um so. Philip Calvin McGraw was born on

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Speaker 1: September one, nineteen fifty in Venita, Oklahoma, about four hours

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Speaker 1: from where I grew up. His father was Joseph and

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Speaker 1: his mother was Anne Geraldine or Jerry is what she

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Speaker 1: preferred to go by. He had two older sisters and

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Speaker 1: one younger sister. When he was a kid, his father

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Speaker 1: moved the family down to the oil fields of North Texas,

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Speaker 1: which are about as unpleasant a place as I've ever

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Speaker 1: encountered on this earth. Not a not a good place

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Speaker 1: to just exist. You know, when a as a general rules,

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Speaker 1: stay away from oil fields. Um, not nice places. So

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Speaker 1: his his kind of like Southern desolation is film McGraw's

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Speaker 1: early childhood. Um, which you know, I can tell you

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Speaker 1: from experience what that does to a kid, uh and

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Speaker 1: it it makes you either um a washout or ambitious

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Speaker 1: and angry. One of the two wind up an alcoholic

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Speaker 1: working on an oil derrick, or you do everything possible

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Speaker 1: to escape the desolate South. Anyway, Phil is going to

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Speaker 1: take that second one. I have strong feelings about that

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Speaker 1: part of Texas and that part of Oklahoma. Uh. Phil

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Speaker 1: was a precocious child, and his parents seemed to agree

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Speaker 1: that he basically raised himself. He expressed a hunger for

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Speaker 1: money from a young age, and he was coddled. His

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Speaker 1: mother thought he could do no wrong. Young Phil was

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Speaker 1: the center of attention for everyone but his father, who

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Speaker 1: was himself obsessed with work. The elder mc graw would

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Speaker 1: end up moving the family half a dozen times for

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Speaker 1: the sake of his career. By age eleven, Phil spending

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Speaker 1: summer's driving a freight truck owned by his grandfather in Monday, Texas.

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Speaker 1: By age twelve, he was flying planes illegally without a

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Speaker 1: license as he traveled with the driving A driving at

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Speaker 1: age eleven not as uncommon as you might think in

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Speaker 1: certain rural parts of the world still a bit young.

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Speaker 1: Driving a freight truck is a bit is a bit

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Speaker 1: odd at age eleven jump and then driving violate at

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Speaker 1: age twelve. Honestly, if I looked at Dr Phil young,

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Speaker 1: because sometimes it's shocking and you're like, whoa Dr Phil

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Speaker 1: used to be hot? Not the case here, But there's

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Speaker 1: a there's a there's a picture of him as a kid,

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Speaker 1: and now like, that does look like a kid that

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Speaker 1: would steal a plane? Yeah, it just does. It's he's

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Speaker 1: not even stealing a plane. His dad needs to fly

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Speaker 1: to these desolate air strips in the middle of nowhere

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Speaker 1: to deliver oil field equipment, and Phil goes with him

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Speaker 1: and flies the plane sometime, like says that his dad

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Speaker 1: is just like, I'm taking a nap. You're flying this

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Speaker 1: oil field equipment across okay, dad, child, Dr Phil looks

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Speaker 1: like adult Chris Cuomo. WHOA, I see it, I see it. Okay.

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Speaker 1: It's it's honestly shocking that he was not a bald baby.

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Speaker 1: If someone wants to make a comic book Dr Phil

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Speaker 1: Child Pilot, um, it's pretty decent premise. There's I've heard worse.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, this is how Phil spends his childhood up

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Speaker 1: until the point when his dad, Joe, turned forty and decided,

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Speaker 1: apropos of nothing, that he was going to abandon his

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Speaker 1: family and become a psychologist. We we truly don't have

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Speaker 1: more info than that. I have not found more info

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Speaker 1: than that. His dad's like, I'm gonna become a psychologist.

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Speaker 1: You guys can keep doing your thing, you know, Like

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Speaker 1: that's basically how it said. And so Joe leaves his

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Speaker 1: wife and three daughters behind I think they stay in Texas,

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Speaker 1: and he brings Phil with him to Kansas, where the

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Speaker 1: two started a new life together. I don't like this,

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Speaker 1: the closeness of father and son here. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: why is it? I hate because every time we go

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Speaker 1: over stories like this, you're like, it can't be daddy issues.

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Speaker 1: Everything can't be just daddy issue. But then but then

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Speaker 1: it always is. Yeah, it's interesting. One of the things

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Speaker 1: that just interesting to me is like the ways in

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Speaker 1: which Dr Phil and I's early background are similar and

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Speaker 1: then diverge. And this is a big divergence point because

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Speaker 1: when I was a kid, my dad left for like

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Speaker 1: a couple of years um to work somewhere else. But

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Speaker 1: it was because we had no money. We were like

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Speaker 1: the edge of bankruptcy, and the only job he could

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Speaker 1: get was in New York, living on a friend's couch

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Speaker 1: and like working at a radio station so he could

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Speaker 1: send back money to us. So it wasn't like and

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Speaker 1: like I didn't go with him. He like had to

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Speaker 1: go alone to New York to support the family and stuff.

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Speaker 1: But it is this weird grew up in the same area,

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Speaker 1: moved around a bunch when we were little. Our dad leaves,

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Speaker 1: you know. But in Phil's case, he goes with his

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Speaker 1: dad and they just abandoned all the women. Um right,

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Speaker 1: Like Dr Phil's dad is like, you're my wife. Now

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Speaker 1: you're my wife. Now boy my wife pilot. By the

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Speaker 1: blame bill, you're my wife now Dr Phil child wife pilot.

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Speaker 1: The pitch is getting better and better and better. It's

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Speaker 1: going to be sold by the end of the end.

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Speaker 1: I actually just got an email from Netflix and it's

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Speaker 1: a check for a hundred and twelve million dollars. So

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Speaker 1: we are now contractually obligated to make this show. Jamie

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Speaker 1: honestly rather do that more than anything else. I know

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Speaker 1: that would be a dream. Let's leave this life behind Okay,

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Speaker 1: so we've been in podcast to do Dr Phil Child

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Speaker 1: Wife Pilot. Yes, I think that would put a lot

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Speaker 1: of positivity back into the world. So they just they

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Speaker 1: just bail and it's not I mean it is they're

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Speaker 1: they're poorish ship his dad wants to go to school,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, I can't take care of this family anymore. Bye,

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Speaker 1: is what it? The way it's been described in the

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Speaker 1: articles i've right now, maybe Dr Phil could could give

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Speaker 1: us a more detailed story, but I have not run

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Speaker 1: across it yet. Okay, Yeah, Um, most of the info

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Speaker 1: I have on his childhood comes from a Dallas Observer article,

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Speaker 1: and they explained the whole abandoning of Phil's mom and

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Speaker 1: sisters as a financial move. Um. Phil apparently told the

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Speaker 1: Dallas Observer quote, there just wasn't enough money to do otherwise,

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Speaker 1: So we can only feed two members of this family.

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Speaker 1: So girls, you're on your own. Phil and I are

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Speaker 1: going to Kansas. Yeah. Extremely, very very sounds like a

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Speaker 1: really healthy family dynamic. So far. You get the feeling

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Speaker 1: he grew up in a healthy environment. That's true. Um,

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Speaker 1: healthy families are all alike. They allowed twelve year olds

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Speaker 1: to fly planes, that's that's how and Karenina starts loved

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Speaker 1: that book so much, and it turns out that's the

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Speaker 1: Pisa statement of the whole thing. How did you just

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Speaker 1: pronounced that, Robert? I don't know Anna Karna? Now, what

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Speaker 1: is it? Why I wasn't that I honestly I think

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Speaker 1: that it. Had Anna Karrennan have been a child pilot,

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Speaker 1: maybe she wouldn't have gotten crushed by that train. No, no,

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Speaker 1: and she could have been Dr Phil's dad's child wife.

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Speaker 1: I actually don't know what happens in that, but I

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Speaker 1: pretended to read it when I was like eleven. I

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Speaker 1: just stared really hard over a course of months for

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Speaker 1: the results of a two thousand six court case. I

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Speaker 1: am not allowed to read Russian literature. So um. In

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Speaker 1: more recent post fame interviews, Dr Phil claims those early

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Speaker 1: days with his father were a humbling experience. Quote we

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Speaker 1: were so poor we couldn't even pay attention, which is

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Speaker 1: I don't I think it's less a true statement. Not

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Speaker 1: that I'm saying they weren't poor. I think he just

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Speaker 1: said that because he knows it was a pithy thing.

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Speaker 1: He makes his whole living off of, like saying, stupid,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Phil witticisms. Yes, and I've I've heard that a

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Speaker 1: thousand times, like I have heard a thousand different people

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Speaker 1: say explain their their origins that way. So I don't know,

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Speaker 1: Fuck you, Dr Phil the original the moms absolutely lose it.

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Speaker 1: I bet it does. I absolutely bet it makes the

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Speaker 1: moms lose it. Someone someone on Reddit during the Doctor

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Speaker 1: Oz episode. You know, I noted a couple of times

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Speaker 1: that his his audience and the people that he makes

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Speaker 1: money off of his like middle aged moms. Um and

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Speaker 1: that that's a great business because they have all the money,

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Speaker 1: um or at least control all the money, Like middle

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Speaker 1: aged moms are are one of the most profitable demographics

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Speaker 1: to get in your corner in the entire world. Um.

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Speaker 1: And someone was like that, you're being like unfairly negative

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Speaker 1: towards middle aged moms. It's just a statement of fact,

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Speaker 1: Like look in the audience of a doctor as show, Like,

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Speaker 1: it's not sixteen to thirty year old like men. It's

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Speaker 1: it's it's a bunch of moms. Like if my mom

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Speaker 1: loved Dr Oz, it's that that's who his audience is.

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Speaker 1: It's not like a negative statement my mom loves Dr Phil. No, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that that's a negative. Say so if

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Speaker 1: anyone's hearing that, and it's not like what they're intending

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Speaker 1: to say, just who the audience is the target. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like saying, like men eighteen to thirty five, listen

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Speaker 1: to Joe Rogan. That's not like I'm not even it

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Speaker 1: is negative to listen to Joe Rogan. But I'm not

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Speaker 1: being negative when I say that, I'm just accurately describing

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Speaker 1: his audience. Yes, yeah, Dcor, I as someone who was

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Speaker 1: raised by Dr Phil moms, I am fully and it's

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Speaker 1: like not what I mean. It is the primary demographic. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: at least at the peak. I don't know who's watching

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Speaker 1: Dr philm Now, no matter you're demographic, there's a grifter

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Speaker 1: for you. Look, I've been honest about the fact that

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Speaker 1: there was a period of time in my life when

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Speaker 1: I liked John McAfee before I knew about you know,

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Speaker 1: the murder and the rape and stuff. Um like all

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Speaker 1: where we all have a grifter we're vulnerable to. It's

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Speaker 1: nothing to be ashamed of, you just need to acknowledge it.

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Speaker 1: And in the case of middle aged suburban moms, it's

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Speaker 1: Dr Phil and Dr Ross. Mine was I think the

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Speaker 1: grifter that really that got me was Luke Pearlman, who

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Speaker 1: made all the boy bands that made me. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I mean one of my favorite, not my favorite, one

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Speaker 1: of the most legendary, absolutely amazing person like Mr himself. No,

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Speaker 1: without any sort of joking, like a genius. Um just

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Speaker 1: just has a genius in terms of knowing exactly what

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Speaker 1: a specific age group of people want. Right. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that we were like not smart, but we were

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Speaker 1: clearly targeted by by Yes, yeah, yeah, we all have

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Speaker 1: a thing we're vulnerable to. Um. Anyway, we're getting off topic. UM,

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Speaker 1: which is fine because it pads the run time. And

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Speaker 1: that's what I do as a grifter, is I pan

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Speaker 1: the run time in order to make more money off

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Speaker 1: of you. Fucking sorry UM okay, yeah, uh shameful. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: the details that Dr Phil gives about his childhood, like

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Speaker 1: he he gives that kind of pithy we were so

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Speaker 1: poor we couldn't even pay attention quote. But in the

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Speaker 1: interview with Dallas Observer, the details he actually gives make

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Speaker 1: it seem like the issue for Phil was less a

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Speaker 1: matter of crushing poverty. Like I think they were kind

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Speaker 1: of poor, but I think they were like my kind

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Speaker 1: of poor, like, which was not crushing poverty. It was

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Speaker 1: not your malnourished. It's just there's no money for anything

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Speaker 1: but the basics, you know, but the basics. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you're not like you know, you're not like in

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Speaker 1: in absolute destitution, you know, like not to exaggerate it,

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Speaker 1: but like you're poor. Like that's kind of what I

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Speaker 1: think is is really happening. And part of why I

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Speaker 1: think that is because his real complaint about that time

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Speaker 1: in his life is that he couldn't buy any cool

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Speaker 1: shit um quote from the Dallas Observer. It didn't help

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Speaker 1: that he was fiercely competitive, he says, and he lacked

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Speaker 1: the clothes and the car to compete for girls. So

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Speaker 1: I think that's more the big thing for him, right,

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Speaker 1: Like you're not that poor, you just don't have enough

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Speaker 1: money to impress girls with possessions. Um right, Okay, yeah

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Speaker 1: I get that level of poverty. Yes, yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: most of us had more or less that level of poverty.

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Speaker 1: Were like especially like I I was like one of

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Speaker 1: the poorer kids in a school that was not poors.

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Speaker 1: There were kids in my school who drove BMW's UM

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Speaker 1: and like I had a beat to ship Ford Taurus. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm not complaining, like I had a Ford Taurus. Like

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Speaker 1: I'm not complaining I had a car. But like you

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Speaker 1: see that, you see the kids whose like parents are rich,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, ah, ship, I feel so poor because

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Speaker 1: they have like a brand new Jaguar. That that's I

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Speaker 1: think the kind of poor he is. Yeah, school is

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Speaker 1: like the kid with the Ford Taurus was like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, he has a car. What a cool boy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean that was just for my senior year,

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Speaker 1: but yes, I did. I did eventually get a car

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Speaker 1: um so thankfully. The young doctor Phil was huge, quickly

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Speaker 1: rossing six feet. He's a massive man. If you've ever

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Speaker 1: like seen him next to normal sized people, he's a

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Speaker 1: very large person. I forget that, but yes, yeah he is.

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Speaker 1: He like six he's like he's yeah, he's like an

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Speaker 1: intro two taller than me and I think quite a

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Speaker 1: bit broader. Like he's a big motherfucker. But but most

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Speaker 1: of that's mustache, Robert, most of that a lot of

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Speaker 1: its mustache now. But when he was younger, he was

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Speaker 1: in good shape, and he was he was very like

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Speaker 1: muscular and as a result of how big and strong.

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Speaker 1: He was. He was a shoe in for the high

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Speaker 1: school's football team. He later recalled quote, I was filled

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Speaker 1: the jock and that was my currency. And by currency,

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Speaker 1: he means that's how he got girls. Right. He didn't

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Speaker 1: have the car, he didn't have, but he was able

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Speaker 1: to get girls because he had, you know, he was

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Speaker 1: he was on the football team. He was tall. He

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Speaker 1: was tall, he was and he was apparently quite good

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Speaker 1: at football. In Phil's senior year, his father moved to

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Speaker 1: Wichita Falls to start his psychology practice. Not yet a doctor,

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Speaker 1: Phil spent his entire senior year living alone. He didn't

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Speaker 1: go with his dad this time. He supported himself and

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Speaker 1: he played football because he he was like there was

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Speaker 1: a period of time where he might have made it

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Speaker 1: into the NFL, So he didn't want to leave his

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Speaker 1: high school and like disrupt that. Um, he said, quote,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't what you were supposed to do. But I

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Speaker 1: was pretty independent. Interesting. College scouts had started eyeing him

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Speaker 1: pretty early on, and he had it seems like he

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Speaker 1: had a real chance of getting at least picked to

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Speaker 1: play college ball. Um. He did get picked to play

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Speaker 1: college ball. His dad had gone to the University of

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Speaker 1: Tulsa on a football scholarship, and in short order, Phil

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Speaker 1: was picked by scouts for the same college. So he

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Speaker 1: gets a college scholarship to the University of Tulsa. He

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Speaker 1: becomes the captain of the freshman football team, and he

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Speaker 1: says he was very good. A lot of articles you'll say,

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Speaker 1: we're very good. We're gonna talk about this in a

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Speaker 1: little bit because his team at least was shit like,

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Speaker 1: like not just not just a bad not just like

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Speaker 1: not good in the year, but like one of the

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Speaker 1: all time least successful college football teams in the history

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Speaker 1: of college football. No, you're trying to think of other

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Speaker 1: there's that is like such a like celebrity that grows

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Speaker 1: to be evil. I feel like that is a pattern

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Speaker 1: of like I could have been a big sport. That

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Speaker 1: was his Hitler's art school, right right right right, like

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Speaker 1: and you just know that parties. He doesn't let people

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Speaker 1: forget it, like, yeah, I'm looking up celebrities who played

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Speaker 1: high school sports, Matthew McConaughey. It just seems like not

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Speaker 1: making it big in college sports potentially a villainous origin story.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I never had any I was on the

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Speaker 1: high school I did like sorry. I did one year

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Speaker 1: of UM football and junior high. I never had any

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Speaker 1: chance of of of going pro and I didn't like football.

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Speaker 1: There was a period of time where I might have

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Speaker 1: been able to like do do do well at fencing.

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Speaker 1: Um I did. I wasn't like a special. It was

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Speaker 1: pretty I was pretty good at fencing, but no, I

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Speaker 1: got bored eventually. For you, I could see that for you.

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Speaker 1: But you're really tall. It helps, yeah, but never like never,

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Speaker 1: never at the college level or anything. I ran tracking

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Speaker 1: junior high, but then I threw up one time and

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Speaker 1: I quit permanently, and to this day I do not.

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Speaker 1: I was captain of the varsity of basketball team, and

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Speaker 1: I'm really really short. So I'm the most athletic of

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Speaker 1: our Budge Sophie is the most successful athlete in in

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Speaker 1: in this call amazing amazing. Yeahs oh there are, Jamie.

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Speaker 1: I will personally send them to you. You know, I

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Speaker 1: will say, having watched the video of that guy's shot

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Speaker 1: putting a fucking uh bobcat, I think that should be

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Speaker 1: the most most amazing thing I've seen in such a

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00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,159
Speaker 1: long That was that was that you know what that

388
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Speaker 1: was is the greatest example of like quality husbanding that

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Speaker 1: I think I've seen on Twitter like that's that's that's

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00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 1: a that's a you did, you did good man, that's

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Speaker 1: exactly what you're supposed to do. Like, that's that's that's

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Speaker 1: wholesome masculinity. Right there is shot putting a wildcat away

393
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Speaker 1: from your wife. That's so what a hero well and

394
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 1: it's also you know, it's not going to do any

395
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 1: damage to the cat. Now, he did get out his

396
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: gun to shoot the cat, but it charged back at

397
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Speaker 1: the family, and I feel at that point the cat

398
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 1: had chosen violence. You know, he gave he gave the

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Speaker 1: animal a chance to in the interaction. Thank you for that.

400
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 1: That fine forensic analysis. That's that's my that's my opinion

401
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: on the by now weeks old video of a guy

402
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 1: hooking a bobcat across the yard. Yeah, the cat shows violence,

403
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: that's my that's my end statement here. So um yeah, Anyway,

404
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 1: Dr Phil a lot of interviewsual see he was very

405
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Speaker 1: very good, could have maybe could have gone pro Um.

406
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Speaker 1: I don't know how accurate that is. I'm not great

407
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 1: at football, but I found an incredible analysis on the

408
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Speaker 1: sports website grant Land about a game that he played

409
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Speaker 1: in that his freshman football team played in that is

410
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: like one of the most famous games in college ball

411
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Speaker 1: history because of how badly his team did. Um Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Grant Land calls it one of the craziest games in

413
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Speaker 1: n c a A history. For starters, the bulk of

414
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Speaker 1: Phil's team were like actively dying of the flu while

415
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: they played. Quote, and especially virulent strain of flu had

416
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: been cavorting through the Tulsa Athletic dorm, somehow overcoming the

417
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 1: formidable sanitary standard. Those three words imply in fifteen of

418
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 1: Tulsa's twenty two starters were shivering feverish recks. They tried

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Speaker 1: to act energetic, but they were so weak. Tulsa coach

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00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: Glenn Dabbs remembered in nineteen my son's Glenn the Third

421
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 1: and John were on the team. Their eyes were glazed

422
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: with fever. The team the team doctor pleaded with the

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Speaker 1: coach to call off the game, but Dabbs, a former

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Speaker 1: Tulsa star who because the world just does whatever at

425
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 1: once had been an icon for the Saskatchewan rough Riders

426
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: of the Canadian Football League, refused to surrender. I just

427
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 1: never liked backing out, he said. Afterward. Tulsa had two

428
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 1: defensive linemen who were well enough enough to travel. One

429
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 1: of them passed out before the coin flips. So escape

430
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: is fucking disaster for it again, so much, it's so good.

431
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: Finally a sports movie for me. Yeah, everyone's just puking

432
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: to death. Also, someone named Glenn the Third is involved.

433
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 1: Like just the funniest fucking thing passing out before the

434
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: game starts. Oh that is just And kudos to the

435
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: grant Land writer. It's very entertaining article. Grant I missed Grantman. Yeah.

436
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: By the end of the first quarter, Phil's team was

437
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: down fourteen to zero, which is a significant like they're getting.

438
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: It's not a great start to a game, but it's

439
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: not insurmountable. However, by the ends of the game they

440
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 1: were down by a record breaking one hundred points to six.

441
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 1: Did still get any of the points? No, I don't believe,

442
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: so not at all. Um. I think it's one of

443
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: the greatest ass kickings in college ball history. Um, like

444
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 1: in the entire history of the sport, Like doctor Phil's

445
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: team got their asses b almost the worst way to lose. Yeah,

446
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: it's like a famous lee, a famous ass kicking. It

447
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: does like several rounds of like going back to being sad,

448
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: and then going back to being funny, and then going

449
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: back to being sad, and then going and finally landing

450
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: on being the funniest ship I've ever It's incredibly funny.

451
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: Um So, Dr Phil brags about this game today, saying

452
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: that it in that football in general helped awakening him

453
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: an interest in psychology by teaching him that people with

454
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 1: advantages don't always win. That said, the author of that

455
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: grant Land article takes pains to point out that there

456
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: is actually no evidence whatsoever that Phil played in this game,

457
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: and the facts that do exist from this time make

458
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: it seem kind of unlikely. I don't know how to like.

459
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: It was far enough fact that there's not any comprehensive

460
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: way to know for sure. Really, um but the doubt

461
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: thrown onto it by this investigation might mean that as

462
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: a grown ass multimillionaire, Dr Phil lied to David Letterman

463
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: about playing in one of the worst ass kickings in

464
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: sports history. And I have no idea what this says

465
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: about him, Like, I don't even know how to analyze that.

466
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: There are so many levels there, because I think if

467
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: he did play in it, you're like, oh, what a yeah, Okay,

468
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: that's fun Yeah, you like, I can see like if

469
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: I was, if I if I played and if I

470
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: partook in a famous ass kicking in a sports history,

471
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: I would brag about that as an adult it would

472
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 1: be funny. You know, you get enough distance from it. Sure,

473
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: lying about it, Dying about it is baffling. Is that's

474
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: like a game of four D chest. I can barely conceive.

475
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: I have no idea what's going on with with Dr

476
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: Phil but um and for the most part, I do

477
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: know what's going on with him. This is just baffling

478
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: to me because he's clearly a narcissist. It's very strange

479
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 1: as a narcissist to lie about this, you know, to

480
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 1: lie about one of the greatest failure. Yeah, to just

481
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: to lie about just getting just like famous historically wrecked anything.

482
00:26:54,840 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 1: Cloud Baby means, speaking of cloud, you who has all

483
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: of my cloud? Jamie? Does it happen to be a

484
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: product or maybe even a service? It is the products

485
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 1: and services that support this podcast. I sacrifice all of

486
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: my clout to them, like members of the ancient cult

487
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: of the Old Ones sacrifice virgin babies to narrow oathup

488
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: the crawling chaos. Much like that here's some ads for

489
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: dick pills. All right, we're back, Uh, we're back. We're

490
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: back worshiping the old gods. I don't know, might deliver

491
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: up some of my bodily fluids to a shagoth later

492
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: who knows. Who knows we're talking about Dr Phil. Anything

493
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 1: can happen. So anyways, after this, at some point I

494
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 1: don't know the exact here, but at some point pretty

495
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: soon after this disastrous game, because Phil was definitely on

496
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: the team. At some point after this, Phil had another

497
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: sports disaster. He went in to tackle a running back

498
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: and he got hit really hard. Um, And I don't

499
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,959
Speaker 1: mean just like you know, sprained something. I mean he

500
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: woke up blind. God, the kind of head injury where

501
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: when you come to your eyes don't work, which is

502
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 1: it's medically speaking bad. You know, it shouldn't be allowed.

503
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: It absolutely, Like I don't know, I think adult should

504
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: I think if you're like twenty two and older, you

505
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: should be allowed to play football, But certainly eighteen year

506
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: olds should not be nor should they be allowed to

507
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: join the military. By the way, Um, yeah, yeah, sure,

508
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,479
Speaker 1: so uh he's still Yeah, it was. The head injury

509
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 1: was bad. His eyesight came back obviously, but it was

510
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: a serious head injury. Um, and it ended ended there

511
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: was no chance of him continuing his career after that, right,

512
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: Like it's one of those things like you don't get

513
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: to ever play football again because you get hit in

514
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: the head one more time. That might be fucking it

515
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: for you, you know. Um. Once his eyesight, Yeah, and

516
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: he still suffers, like he's there's after effects of this today,

517
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: Like it's it's a lifelong injury. Um, he got really

518
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: messed up. It's a bad thing to do. Yeah, yeah,

519
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: it's bad. Um. Once his sight came back, Phil returned

520
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: to Wichita Falls to heal and to plot his next move.

521
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: He decided to put his college education on hold now

522
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: that he couldn't do a football scholarship. Uh. And he decided,

523
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: you know the thing to do now, I'm not gonna

524
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna think about college later. I'm gonna

525
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: make some money now, right, which is not an unreasonable

526
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: call to make in the situation. Um. And I'm gonna

527
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: quote from a rite up in the Dallas Observer. He

528
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: worked at a health club selling memberships and wound up

529
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: owning a partnership interest in that club and a half

530
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: dozen others. That was typical of the way he did things,

531
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: says Scott Madison, who went into the building business with

532
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: his future brother in law. He is the smartest guy

533
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: I ever met, a born leader, even at a young age.

534
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: He had the insight to figure out how things work.

535
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: Others took a more damnable view of his business practices.

536
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: I didn't know of anyone who had a business deal

537
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: with Phil at the time who felt they came out

538
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: on top, says David Dickinson, a former friend of McGraw's

539
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: from Wichita Falls. It's like playing golf from someone who

540
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: moves the ball around all the time. So how youngest

541
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: he when he gets into business, And it's like maybe

542
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: twenty at the most, like nineteen or twenty, and very

543
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: quickly he's a partnern becomes a part owner in the

544
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: sports club he's working at, becomes part owner, and like

545
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: a half dozen other clubs like he's so he doesn't

546
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a degree yet of any kind, but

547
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: he's clearly very good at It's the specifically the thing

548
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: that Phil is objectively one of the best people in

549
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: the world at is negotiating like he is a terrifying negotiator.

550
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,719
Speaker 1: I haven't run into any disagreement about that. He's got all.

551
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: He's got all the like the strongest rad scripters have. Yeah,

552
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: and he's he's very good at um in negotiating in

553
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: a legal manner, which is a separate skill just from grifting,

554
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: you know, and is honestly like the best kind of

555
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: grifting because you can't get in trouble for that ship. Yeah. Yeah,

556
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: if he's willing to go into this game that young,

557
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: that's so his brain. He's just he's wired for it,

558
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: you know, or at least maybe the football injury scrambled

559
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: his wires and made him wired for it. I don't know.

560
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,959
Speaker 1: His reality is stressed me out. Okay, he's triggering my

561
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: my fight or fly response. Yeah, that's how Dr Phil works.

562
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: He really really triggers a lot of a lot of responses. Um. Now.

563
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: The article notes that when you interview that Dallas Observer

564
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: article notes that when you interview a bunch of people

565
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: who have known Dr Phil over the course of decades,

566
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: you tend to get two very different pictures of the man.

567
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: One from the people who like him is of an

568
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: incredibly gifted expert in practical psychology who has a passion

569
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: for helping people. The other picture you get of Dr

570
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: Phil is a quote charismatic opportunist who achieved great things

571
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: by betraying the people closest to him in order to

572
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: make a quick buck. One of these spurned former friends

573
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: is Elden Buck, who claimed to the Observer, I put

574
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: Phil in a couple of oil field deals and everyone

575
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: pays me but him. Phil is a smart, smart, smart

576
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: son of a bitch, but he's only out for one thing,

577
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: and that's Phil. Now Phil denies all of this, but

578
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: it is worth noting, as we've just heard that Buck

579
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: is not the only person with allegations like this against him.

580
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: He's not even just one of two. But we're going

581
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: to get to that story and due time. So he's

582
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: also involved in in oil fields down there, anything that

583
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: will make him money like this is like kind of

584
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: all happening over a period of a couple of years.

585
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: He's just he starts making money and he immediately reinvests

586
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: that's money. He's in a bunch of businesses. You know,

587
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: I have I have a good, a very very close

588
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: friend who has that kind of brain who's just always

589
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: spending off their money into one business or another, and

590
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: I don't know how they do it, but they just

591
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: are able to keep track of like the fact that

592
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,719
Speaker 1: like I've I've got an investment in this business, and

593
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: through that business, I have an investment in this business

594
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: and an interest in these other three businesses, and those

595
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: give me an interest in this and like this is

596
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: how all of that Like I don't, I don't understand it,

597
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: but like it's kind of like being an engineer. You know.

598
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: Some people have the kind of brain where you can

599
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: open up like a fucking HVAC system or or like

600
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: the flight control system on an airplane and know what

601
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: all of the little cords and all of the lights

602
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: go and do, and how to how to how to

603
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: work all of that. Some people have a brain that

604
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: allows them to just business. You know. I respect people

605
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: who use it for good, but holy sh it, what

606
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: an exhausting sounding. It sounds like a nightmare. Um. I

607
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: keep all of my money and a pile um and

608
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,959
Speaker 1: I will never have investments, like I will never like

609
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: I keep it in a bank, but like I have

610
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: no I have no investments and never will because the

611
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: idea of investing money is terrifying to me, and makes

612
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: me want to huddle around a fire with a spear

613
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: and stab outsiders. I spent my all my savings on

614
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: Dilbert n f T s. Well, that's gonna that's gonna appreciate,

615
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: you know, a good feeling. It's the only thing they're

616
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: not making any more of. That's the real thing, the

617
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: the you know, the tashi Dilbert guy Um made Dilbert

618
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: n f T s and the only difference from a

619
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: regular Dilbert is that he sets fucking this one too

620
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: much money anyways. I would pay good money for a

621
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: Doilbert n f T where he admits responsibility for the

622
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: Oak Home the city bombing. I think that would be

623
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: a good n f T. If you're listening, Scott Adams,

624
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: I'll invest in that one. Dilbert Dilbert admits to making

625
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: a six thousand pounds fertilizer bomb and parking it out

626
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: in front of the Murror building. That's the n f

627
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: T I want. I can guarantee that Kathy guys By,

628
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: creator of Kathy Comics, does not know nor care what

629
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: an em n f T is. And that's why she

630
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: is she is really she She's my strength in this world.

631
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: Stand Kathy stand Cathy Stan Cathy. You know who else

632
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: I stand, Jamie? No one that was like it's not

633
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: time for an ad. It so loves to do the

634
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: like fake ad thing, and then that he thinks that

635
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't stop myself. He's just so good

636
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: at it. I mean, you know who I actually stand?

637
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: Who I have an unreasonable uh affection for? Steatherwise? No, No,

638
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: I think I think I have a reasonable love of

639
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 1: LaVar Burton, as everyone does. Right, it's like a Cathy

640
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: bar Right, you know, it's like loving a ca b

641
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: Bara like it's LaVar Burton. Of course. No. Verner Herzog

642
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: Herzog is my my unreasonable love. Robert. I would love

643
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: you should start making Verner Herzog fan camps. I don't

644
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: know what that means, Jamie. I'm gonna make one of you,

645
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: and you're gonna be horrified if there. I wonder if

646
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: Robert Fancam's exist. Listen to what the fun is a

647
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: fan cam? It's how do I describe Fancam. It's usually

648
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: like it's it's a short video made on an app.

649
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: I don't know what the app is, but it's just

650
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: a series of clips of you and they have they

651
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: put a glittery filter over it and there's like a

652
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: cute song on in the background. I don't think there's

653
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: a lot of video of me where like you can

654
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: actually see me. Um, so that might be hard to do. Robert,

655
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: you would, you would absolutely hate it, my friend, I

656
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: know I would. There's enough video footage of you for

657
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: a fan camp, you need like three clips. Well, all

658
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: all I'm interested of is a fan cam of Verner

659
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: Herzog diving into a bunch of cactuses because he promised

660
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: a group of little people that if they made it

661
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: through the filming of a movie without injury, he would

662
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: horribly hurt himself by diving into a bed of saguaros

663
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 1: from twelve feet up. Is that true? Yeah? He absolutely

664
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 1: did it, and they begged him not to. They were like,

665
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: please don't do this, like we don't want you to

666
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: hurt yourself, and he said, I made a promise, and

667
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: if I don't fulfill my promise, there's no reason for

668
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: me to be alive. And then he dove into a

669
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: pile of cactuses. Because he's a fucking lunatic and I

670
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: love him so much. Okay, Werner Herzog Um watch a

671
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: guir the Wrath of God. So Dr Phil, Robert, Dr Phil, Yeah, sorry,

672
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 1: we're who off the topic a little bit. So. After

673
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 1: three years as a business slash con man, Phil McGraw

674
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: decided to return to the education system to study psychology.

675
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: He started off at Midwestern University in Wichita Falls, where

676
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 1: his father had gone, and then transferred to the University

677
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: of North Texas, which is where the people who gave

678
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: me huge amounts of drugs went to school. I don't

679
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: think Phil spent his time half a mile outside of

680
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: campus downing hundred milligrams of two C I andy milligrams

681
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: of five m O D five me o m I

682
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 1: p T and vaporizing D m T, which is probably

683
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: why he graduated UNT with a PhD, while my friends

684
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: and I all dropped out of college to go, you know,

685
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: do stupid shit. UM anyway, yeah, Dr, No, he's not um.

686
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: In his recollection, Phil both hated and excelled at college.

687
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: He later recalled, I almost quit every day. The faculty

688
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: just jacked with you all the time. I remember telling

689
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: one professor either kick me out or get off my ass.

690
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: He did succeed in impressing other professors, though his mentor

691
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: at U n T was Dr g. Frank Lawless, who

692
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: still considers Dr Phil quote by far, the most brilliant

693
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: psychologist I ever worked with, which is meaningful praise. But

694
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: also we are talking unt here, you know, we're not

695
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: talking like one of the famous psychology schools in the country.

696
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: So not not not a nothing compliment, but not like

697
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: a doctor, not like people saying Doc yours is the

698
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: best heart surgeon ever, you know, because that motherfucker's working

699
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 1: at Columbia, right, they know from heart surgery, right, Okay,

700
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not I'm not throwing shade at

701
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: Frank Lawless. I'm just saying I don't think Dr Phil

702
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: is the most brilliant psychologist ever to exist. I haven't.

703
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: I haven't gotten past the fact that Frank Lawless sounds

704
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,720
Speaker 1: like a made up person, that sounds like a cartoon character.

705
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: I'm assuming he's Zena's father. Um So McGraw got his

706
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: doctor in nineteen seventy nine and returned to Wichita Falls

707
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 1: for reasons that are impossible to explain any any person

708
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: who returns to Kansas. I just don't I don't understand.

709
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: He started a business partnership with his Dad, and together

710
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: the two veered their practice towards treating the mental ailments

711
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 1: of the rich and socially prominent, circulating among country clubs

712
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: to cater to doctors, lawyers, bankers, and their wives. One

713
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: of Dr films Phil's friends later claimed, quote Phil moved

714
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,439
Speaker 1: right into the money circles. If there wasn't a buck

715
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: in it, he wasn't much interested. So you know, that's

716
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: that's the that's the field he gets into, is dealing

717
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: with like rich people who are neurotic or whatever. Okay,

718
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: so he comes to being a charlottean early. Yeah. I

719
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: mean you know, at this point again, if you're grifting

720
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: rich people, I don't care. Yeah, sometimes I might find

721
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: it interesting for an off week, but I don't consider

722
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 1: that evil behavior, right, they have too much money whatever.

723
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: He specialized in cognitive behavioral therapy, which Phil at least

724
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: claimed was a cause and effect therapy that treated thoughts

725
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: and behavior the same quote. People would come in and

726
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 1: say I had a hard childhood, therefore I am not

727
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 1: doing well as an adult. A Freudian would say, let's

728
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: work through your childhood. I would say that's fine, But

729
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: right now you are an adult. You have a choice

730
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: to stop yelling at your kids. I've done, I've done. Yeah,

731
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 1: that's not that doesn't sound bad, right, Like that is

732
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: a reasonable take, which is like, Okay, it's fine to like,

733
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,919
Speaker 1: you know, work through a difficult childhood, but you can't

734
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: be shitty to your kids just because you had a

735
00:39:53,560 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: bad childhood. Reasonable state doesn't perfectly valid statement absolutely um.

736
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: And this kind of no nonsense approach was very popular

737
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: with some of his clients. I can see how it

738
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: would have been useful in a number of cases. But

739
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: Dr Phil himself admits that he was quote probably the

740
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: worst marital therapist in the history of the world. I

741
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: was teaching what they taught me, but I was real impatient.

742
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: Everybody was getting divorced the way he relates it. Realizing

743
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: the shortcomings of his education convinced Phil to seek out

744
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: less traditional ways to practice his profession and to market it.

745
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: And I should note here as an aside, that during

746
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: this period Doctor Phil got married and was briefly with

747
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: a woman before cheating on her repeatedly and uh than

748
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: leaving her. Yeah, so well, maybe he should have been

749
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: a little more patient, maybe should have taken some of

750
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: his own medicine. Yeah, I mean he he does. I mean,

751
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: to be fair, he admits he was a bad marriage therapist.

752
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: So I can't call him like a hypocrite if you're

753
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: saying I was I I was a shitty husband and

754
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: a shitty marriage therapist that all scared, you know, Like, um,

755
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: that's yeah, he's being honest here, so we won't labor

756
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: the point. Yeah, he started holding pain clinics, weight loss clinics,

757
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: and executive giving executive recruiting advice, and even expert legal

758
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: testimony for court cases. He was like an expert witness. Yeah,

759
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: and this is like for court cases, right, Like you

760
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: need someone to come and you know, you have like

761
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: somebody who's claiming like, oh, you know, I can't be

762
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: held responsible for this because I'm you know, like mentally

763
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 1: ill or whatever, like you know, not guilty by reason

764
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: of insanity. He comes in and he's like, yes, that's

765
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: valid or no that's not valid, depending on who pays him.

766
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 1: You know. It's just a general mental health professional. Yeah. Yeah,

767
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: it's kind of we just we just finished the Chauvin trial.

768
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: You know, we had all these kind of use of

769
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 1: force experts. There's a bunch of people in different fields

770
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: whose main job is to take that that expertise in

771
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: another field and testify about it in court because it's relevant. Right.

772
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: You have like engineering specialists who are like, I'm going

773
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,479
Speaker 1: to go testify about this bridge that collapse to either

774
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: defend the people who made it or explain how we're

775
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: responsible they wear whatever, Like that's a whole there's a

776
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: whole industry. Dr Phil gets into the providing money. There's

777
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 1: a funckload of you can get real goddamn rich doing that. Yeah, well, yeah,

778
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: especially if you're willing to lie about Yeah, and by

779
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: the way, lawyers listening, I will testify as an expert

780
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,800
Speaker 1: witness on literally anything. As a certified reverend doctor in

781
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: the state of New Jersey, my purview is wide. So

782
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: you know what, twelve grand an hour the podcast is

783
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: just gonna disappear one day and it's the instant I'm

784
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: fucking done, you know, like the fun funk this podcast.

785
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go lie under oath about I don't know whatever. Anyway. Um.

786
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 1: Dr Phil started, yeah, holding, you know, so he starts

787
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: he gets into like the whole business of if I

788
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 1: really want to make money at scale as a psychologist,

789
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: having individual even if they're rich. Individual clients isn't the

790
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: thing to do. I'm gonna do a bunch of clinics

791
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: on like dealing with pain, dealing with weight loss, you know,

792
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: recruiting people. I'll do like. So he gets very quickly

793
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,919
Speaker 1: into the I'm less about helping people and more about

794
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 1: making money as a psychologist. In nine four, he meets

795
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: Thelma Box, an insurance and real estate agent from Graham, Texas,

796
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: who asked him to go into business with her to

797
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: create a brand new motivational seminar. Now we're talking again

798
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 1: like the seventies eighties, which is the golden age of

799
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: motivational seminars. That's when this whole thing really explodes. Motivational

800
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: seminars are basically short term cults. For two to five days,

801
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: uh several dozen to several hundreds, sometimes even a couple

802
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: of thousand, people will pack into an auditorium where a

803
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: charismatic frontman and a handful of his buddies will coach them,

804
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 1: usually by hyping the room up, using simple crowd work

805
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: tactics to make people feel temporarily elated and tricking them

806
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: into having like cathartic experiences and thinking they've learned something.

807
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: You know, um, that's the whole idea. Have people get

808
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: like people, the mania of a crowd kind of going

809
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: make people cry or laugh and think like something significant

810
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: has happened. Probing personal questions. Yeah, in public, in front

811
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,720
Speaker 1: of a bunch of people. It's a whole big grift.

812
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: Film a box was a well, I don't know, grift.

813
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people just like them. I've

814
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: known people who like admit that they never got anything

815
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: long term out of it, but just enjoy the experience.

816
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: And I guess if that's your thing, it kind of

817
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: depends whatever. Some people are just like they're like, yeah,

818
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: Tonic is maybe not the best people again person it's

819
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 1: like basically full of ship. But you know, I had

820
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: a couple of hundred dollars to burn in a weekend

821
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: to burn and it made me feel good. You know,

822
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: I don't care. I guess if that's your thing, we

823
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 1: all have where you can get it. Yeah, every there's

824
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: a lot of people who liked There's people who like

825
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: to climb the ice filled sides of mountains with crampons

826
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: and fucking like pythons and stuff, and a lot of

827
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: them die. There's people who like to do cave diving,

828
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: which is the deadliest thing you could possibly do to relax.

829
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: So like, I don't know people do ship. I don't care, um,

830
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: but most of the people doing these seminars are actually

831
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 1: like people at some kind of like crisis point in

832
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: their life having a difficulty and that that's that's the

833
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: problem with it. And it's like it depends on how

834
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: you sell it to like if you're like promising, oh,

835
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: if you come this weekend, you're gonna leave and make

836
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: a million dollars in the next you know, there's there's

837
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: varying degrees. Some of them are just like I'm gonna

838
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: make you feel good about yourself so you can go

839
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 1: out and attack the world. And I guess that's kind

840
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 1: of less problematic, where it's like okay, like whatever, you know,

841
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: it's basically expensive church, okay, yeah, like you will not

842
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 1: make me not hate myself. Friend better men than you

843
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 1: have tried. So film a Box, who you know is

844
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: Phil's friend, is a huge fan of these kind of

845
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: motivational seminars. She'd done all the big ones. Zig zig

846
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: Lar actual guy out there. You can find his books

847
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: at any given a state sale Dale Carnegie. You can

848
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: also find his books at any given a state sale. Uh,

849
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,399
Speaker 1: Tony robbins, you can also find his books at any

850
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: given a state sale all the estate sale. Great. She

851
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: does their seminars with like bookers on the side of

852
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: the books. Yeah, most of her classes had been focused

853
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,479
Speaker 1: on her career, like they've been like focused on helping

854
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: salesman right, because that's a big subset of this industry.

855
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: She sold insurance and real estate, so they had been

856
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 1: conferences to help real estate and insurance salesman sell better. Uh.

857
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 1: Box felt that there was a market for a seminar

858
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: focused instead of financial stuff on personal growth, on how

859
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 1: to actually be a better person. Now. Box had gotten

860
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: to know Dr Phil because her son had hired him

861
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: to renegotiate a bunch of bank loans. She decided Phil

862
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: was the best negotiators she'd ever seen. Quote. He has

863
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: a god given gift, a combination of charm and charisma

864
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: that can mesmerize a room full of people. And again,

865
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: people who disagree about a lot of stuff about Dr Phil,

866
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:42,320
Speaker 1: nobody disagrees about this part. He's apparently just an incredible negotiator. Um.

867
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,399
Speaker 1: So she she decides he's going to be a great

868
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: frontman for this life improvement seminar she wants to host. Now,

869
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: her initial plan had been to lead a success seminar

870
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: for single women, but McGraw pushed back against this. He

871
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: didn't want to limit himself to just female customers. Instead,

872
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: the plan that he made was for botor Instead. He

873
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: was like, we should do like a general like life

874
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: improvement for everybody, Like come here and I'll help you

875
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: deal with whatever things are holding you back in your life. Right, Like,

876
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: that's kind of how Phil Phil innovates the pitch um. Now,

877
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: Initially the plan that Box had fronted was for Box

878
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: and Phil to be fifty fifty partners in this venture.

879
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: But right before they started going, yeah, exactly, right before

880
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: they started going, doctor Phil demanded that he was going

881
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: to walk if she didn't bring his dad in as

882
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 1: an equal shareholder. Yeah, bringing daddy into it. Yeah, And

883
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: this this was a negotiation tactic from Box quote, getting

884
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: his dad involved would give Phil control. I didn't want

885
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: to be a minority owner. But he threatened to do

886
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 1: the seminars without me. Now, since Box was not a

887
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 1: doctor and she'd already given Phil all of her ideas,

888
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: she didn't feel like she could do the seminar without him.

889
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: But he could do it without her, so she was

890
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,720
Speaker 1: kind of in a tight spot here, so she agreed.

891
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 1: She claims that she basically yeah, he's that's the guy is.

892
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: She claims she built the curriculum of the program from

893
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 1: the ground up, designing most of the games and all

894
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: of like the different like worksheets and ship you had

895
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: to do, and basically, in fairness, like I don't think

896
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: Box is a great person. She's taking all of the

897
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: information for this from other seminars she attended and is

898
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: just modifying them enough to avoid the grifter. And the

899
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: grifter never likes that she gets sucked over by Phil,

900
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: but like, I don't particularly like her either, So I

901
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: want to take that negotiation tactic and apply it to

902
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: the stand up comedy world. And I'm like, all right,

903
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: I know that you're supposed to be featuring for me,

904
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: but actually my dad is going to be opening now actually,

905
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: so it's gonna be my dad. Then you you'll be

906
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: doing a shorter set. I will then be doing five

907
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: hours like that. That would be so fun. Uh yeah,

908
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm excited for that for you, Jamie, thank you,

909
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: But you know what isn't exciting? What is an exciting

910
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: life without the products and services that support this podcast

911
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: absolutely not even really worth living. Like, if we're being frank,

912
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,720
Speaker 1: what are you even doing without these products and services?

913
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 1: What are you? Nothing? Nothing? All right, here's ads We're back. Ah.

914
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: I hope you all spent money, because this whole fucking

915
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: wheel of blood doesn't keep turning if you don't put

916
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: money into it. People, you know, that's how it works.

917
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: That's how it works. You want this to fall apart? Yes, anyway?

918
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: So yeah. The basic idea of these seminars that Box

919
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: mostly cooks up and Phil is supposed to present is

920
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: to teach people how to find out what they want

921
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 1: from life by making them more accountable, by expressing vulnerability,

922
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: stripping away self deception, which all just means like making

923
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: people cry in a big room surrounded by other people,

924
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 1: you know, like that's the goal. That that's the goal,

925
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: with no connection to the outside world, and you gas

926
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: like them intipulating something that they don't. Short term cults,

927
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: which is the kind of cult I'd like to do

928
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: because it does sound exhaust having to like every time

929
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: I watch my favorite TV show, which is the Waco

930
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: TV show where they made David Koresh have incredible come

931
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: gutters minutes forty seconds before editing before Waco, I just

932
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: it's it seems like it's exhausting. Like we all love

933
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: David Koresh, but my god, the man had to put

934
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: in a lot of work just to just to keep

935
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 1: a cult going, Like it just doesn't seem worth it.

936
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: Begin with that sentence short term cults like if I

937
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 1: could just do like a limited Waco like five or

938
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: six times a year over the course of like four days,

939
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: that seems much better. It's like a juicing. Yeah, it's

940
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 1: a juicing of the spirit. You're just left like you

941
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: feel like you're better off. You're probably not. It doesn't

942
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: matter because you can sleep for three days. Yes, So

943
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: if you take out takedown a podcast idea the forty

944
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: minute Waco, I think we can make a lot of

945
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: money with this um. Anyway back to Dr philp So,

946
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: what made the uh this this siminar thing that he

947
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,720
Speaker 1: launches with Box special is the the group dynamic, getting

948
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 1: a hundred or so people to get a room, crying

949
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: and sharing stories and having the kind of addictive, cathartic

950
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 1: experiences that makes him in our host rich people. Phil

951
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: and Box were good at it. And Dr Phil instantly

952
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: gained a reputation as a magnetic host. When attendee recalled quote,

953
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: his voice was Mike and he sounded godlike. I watched

954
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: powerful men crumble as he questioned them. He knew just

955
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 1: the right buttons to push. You know, it's not that

956
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: he's a great psychologist, is that he is an incredibly

957
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: intuitive man who understands people, which is why he's a

958
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 1: good negotiator. He does have a great voice. I'll give

959
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 1: that to him. He yeah, he knows how to manipulate people, right,

960
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: He's a great manipulator, and that you can make a

961
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 1: lot of money doing that. That's the most dangerous trade

962
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: in the world is understanding people but just not caring

963
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: what happens to them. Yes, yes, yeah, I understand people,

964
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: but care about what happens to them, which is why

965
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: I tell them to buy machetes and bolt cutters and

966
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: play more anti personnel minds. Yes, definitely saving lives. Um.

967
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 1: By the way, when you're ordering your claim more anti

968
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: personnel line, use prom o code Bastards for fifteen percent

969
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: off if you buy four or more clay More fuck

970
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 1: anyone in front of you. What Sophie Robert, Dr Phil. Okay, yeah,

971
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: So the siminar series was called Pathways, and it became

972
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 1: hugely popular. For a while, they were making fucking bank

973
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 1: and the whole process of doing this awoke in Phil

974
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: or at least accelerated a deep desire to get on TV.

975
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: He started pushing for his own talk talk show. Schmoozing

976
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 1: with a Hollywood producer who made the mistake of attending

977
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 1: one of his seminars, Phil succeeded in talking said producer

978
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: into filming a pilot episode of a show where three

979
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: people went through Dr Phil's training and told their stories

980
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: of like you know, how it had helped them. The

981
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 1: show sounds incredibly boring, and clearly it was not picked

982
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: up now. Over his years with Pathways, McGraw developed into

983
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: a talented showman. One of his co workers, David Dickinson,

984
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: later recalled, once he got in front of the room,

985
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,800
Speaker 1: it didn't take long to feel the power. He loved

986
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,439
Speaker 1: being godlike and worshiped. The only reason and it didn't

987
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: become a cult is because Thelmo wouldn't let it. Yeah, okay,

988
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 1: he really does sound like like Chaos Frasier. Yeah, Chaos Frasier, Yes, yeah,

989
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: fer Head. Oh God was the show, the episode The

990
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: Devil and Dr Phil. I mean, the thing is, if

991
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: you actually Frasier was a big show from my family

992
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: growing up, and so like, while my mom was was dying,

993
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: we watched a lot of episodes because you know, there

994
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: wasn't a lot that she could do, and it was

995
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: kind of a thing that was nostalgic for all of us. Um.

996
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: But one of the through lines of the series is

997
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: that Fraser is not a good psychologist, like not a

998
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: good psychiatrist. Like he's bad, Like that's why he's on

999
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:48,320
Speaker 1: the radio. He's a bit of a drifter too, because

1000
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 1: Niles is supposed to be good. Yeah, yeah, Niles is

1001
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: competent um although problematic, Uh, definitely some stalking behavior from Niles. Um. Oh, yes,

1002
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: Niles is also can But but nobody on that show

1003
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 1: is a good person. But John Mahoney, Um the only

1004
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: good cop Frasier's dad. True, and not even not even

1005
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: Eddie is safe from no no, from cancelation and honestly

1006
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: not a good a cop. John Mahoney admits to lying

1007
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 1: on the stand in order to get a man incarcerated

1008
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 1: during an episode of Frasier. It's just like an offside comment. Yes,

1009
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 1: he absolutely does. He's just such a damn charismatic actor.

1010
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: I can't stay mad at the man. Um So, by

1011
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: the late nineteen eighties, Pathways had moved to Dallas were

1012
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: each year more than a thousand people would pay a

1013
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: thousand dollars each to attend a single weekend defense with McGraw.

1014
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 1: That's a million bucks in a weekend, so a great

1015
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: money in this. Uh So Dr Phil is I don't

1016
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: know if he's a millionaire at this point, but he

1017
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:56,839
Speaker 1: is well off at this point. Um Now, he unfortunately,

1018
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: like his dad, is involved in the whole thing. And

1019
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 1: Dr Phil never had a great relationship with his father.

1020
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 1: I think he was just kind of using him to

1021
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 1: get control of the thing. But like he and his

1022
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 1: dad don't get along. They're both egomaniacs. And to make

1023
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 1: matters worse, the older Dr McGraw was basically just kind

1024
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: of like there to cash a check. Like when he

1025
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: would show up on stage, you'd be like a erratic

1026
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: and kind of say nonsense and not really help the

1027
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:25,320
Speaker 1: business at all. Worse than nothing, the two men started

1028
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: to hate each other, which a number of number of

1029
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: employees noted as somewhat hypocritical. Quote, come on, here was

1030
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 1: a guy who was running a relationship seminar, and he

1031
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: doesn't speak to his own father in the training room

1032
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 1: for years, he didn't walk his own talk. That is

1033
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 1: a fair hypocritical criticism. Yeah, hilarious. And while Dr Phil's

1034
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 1: relationship with his dad, uh kind of went to ship,

1035
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: his relationship with Thelma Box, who had founded the program

1036
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: that made him rich and developed its curriculum, got even worse.

1037
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 1: The Dallas Observer writes, quote the McGraw and Box were

1038
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 1: partners from more than seven years and friends from more

1039
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:02,839
Speaker 1: than a dozen. His treatment of her didn't seem much better.

1040
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,240
Speaker 1: On November sixteenth, nineteen ninety two, Box received a facts

1041
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 1: memo from McGraw informing her that he had made a

1042
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 1: tentative deal to sell his interest in Pathways to Midland

1043
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 1: philanthropist Steve Davidson. McGraw was ready to move on, his

1044
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 1: father ready to retire. That's why his father had sold

1045
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 1: his one third interest, The memo informed her to a

1046
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 1: Wichita Falls businessman. Of course, the new partners quote, understand

1047
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: yours and my relationship and know that I am committed

1048
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 1: to you as a friend and associate and expect fair treatment. Basically,

1049
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: he sold me down the river, says Box, who recalls

1050
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: having heated discretions with McGraw about either selling her own

1051
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: Pathways interest or buying him out. In the two weeks

1052
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,720
Speaker 1: prior to the memo, Phil and I hadn't been getting along.

1053
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: He stopped talking to me, and I knew we couldn't

1054
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: go on that way. What he had neglected to tell her,

1055
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: she says, is that he had engineered this corporate takeover

1056
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,720
Speaker 1: scheme by actually selling his interest more than a year earlier.

1057
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: On October fifteenth, nineteen ninety one, he signed an agreement

1058
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: for his sale of path for the sale of his

1059
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: Pathway stock for three D twenty five thousand dollars. I

1060
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: absolutely told her I was selling, McGraw says. What she

1061
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 1: didn't like was who I was selling to. Now, you

1062
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 1: can take whoever's word you want on this, but the

1063
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 1: author of that article was giving a memo, was given

1064
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: a memo that McGraw sit to the buyer of his stock,

1065
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 1: in which he agreed the buyer agreed that the sale

1066
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 1: would be kept confident confidential from everyone, including Box. So

1067
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and say that Phil is the

1068
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: liar here. He basically knew like he wanted to sell

1069
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: out early when his stuff was worth more than hers

1070
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 1: would be like with with only a third of it

1071
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: left her like that she's not going to get as

1072
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: much money for it. Um, and he lies. She keeps

1073
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: she's trying to buy it from for a year after

1074
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 1: he's already sold it, and he's just stonewalling her. Um

1075
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 1: Like he's yeah, it's it's it's a shitty way to

1076
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: treat a business partner. It's it absolutely is. Yeah, It's

1077
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 1: like it's hard to care about anyone involved in this,

1078
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 1: this whole situation, but he does sound like the party

1079
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: who wronged her. Yeah, and he acknowledges that the material

1080
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: from his first best selling book was basically lifted entirely

1081
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 1: from the Pathways curriculum, but he has never acknowledged that

1082
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: Thelma Box actually wrote the curriculum he based his best

1083
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: selling book on. So and I definitely didn't mention whoever

1084
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 1: Felm A. Box stole it from. So. No, and that again,

1085
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: that's the thing, right, The point is that he is

1086
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: a con man, not that she is particularly a victim here.

1087
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's like I don't care about Thelma Box.

1088
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 1: In Dr Phil was living and working in Wichita. He

1089
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: keeps going back to fucking Kansas, enjoying his pathways, money

1090
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: and working as a psychologist. One of his patients was

1091
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: a young woman who he started and maintained a quote

1092
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: inappropriate dual relationship with that. Yeah he is her, he

1093
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 1: is her doctor and he is her own don't your doctor?

1094
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: Come on, yeah, shouldn't be doing that with the patient

1095
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: you're providing psychiatric care to. Definitely don't kind of a

1096
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: no no, but don't your doctor. He then made the

1097
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: relationship even more inappropriate when he hired her part time

1098
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 1: while she was still his patient and lover, which is

1099
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: so many conflicts of interest. That is, you got to

1100
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: give the man credit for really going out of his

1101
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: way to to to do the most unethical version of

1102
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: that thing. He could like hand critical support to Dr

1103
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: Phil from managing the fucking the fucking I don't know

1104
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 1: what do you the trifecta. I guess my spirit is

1105
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 1: worn down. I'll hand it to him doctor. Dr Phil

1106
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: considers this transgression to just have been a misdemeanor. Um.

1107
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: But the journalist from the Doubt behind the journalis who

1108
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: wrote that Dallas Observer article looked into the situation he

1109
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 1: found the woman Dr Phil had the relationship with, and

1110
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: he found out a lot more besides, and it's pretty

1111
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 1: fucking sketchy. Quote. In four, she was a college student

1112
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 1: returning home after her sophomore year, depressed, lonely, and suicidal.

1113
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: I was emotionally abused as a child, she says, and

1114
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: suffered from low self esteem. When mcbro began treating her,

1115
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: she says, he became fully involved in her life, demanding

1116
00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: to know with whom she spoke when she went to

1117
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 1: bed at night, what she did that day, If I

1118
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 1: was depressed, her anxious. His first question was why didn't

1119
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: you call me every time I felt bad? He insisted,

1120
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 1: only he could fix me. When she wanted to spend

1121
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: the following summer working for a professor at the Houston

1122
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: University she was attending, he persuaded her to work in

1123
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 1: his bio feedback lab, in Whichita falls He kept me

1124
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: totally dependent on him, she says. So that's textbook abuse,

1125
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 1: Like that's just like literally textbook abuse. Yeah, it couldn't

1126
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 1: be clearer. Hate it, hate it so much on so

1127
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:37,919
Speaker 1: many levels, multiple levels. That's terrible. It's really bad. It's

1128
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 1: really he's a bad person. Jamie's just a real bad

1129
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 1: person your employer, Like fucking hell. Not to be like

1130
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 1: complimenting Doctor Oz. But by this point the doctor Oz story,

1131
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 1: he's performed thousands of open heart surgeries. Again, Dr Phil,

1132
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: they're both drifters. Dr Phil never does a single good thing,

1133
01:00:55,680 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 1: like to even the scales at all. He's just a monster, right,

1134
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 1: and you get the feeling, Doctor Oz. I have never

1135
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: heard a complaint that he's abusive in his personal relationships

1136
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 1: people mostly that I've heard it reports that he's kind

1137
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 1: of a narcissist, But I've never heard that he's like

1138
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 1: a monster. Doctor Phil's a monster. You make a fan

1139
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 1: came with him already. I don't know. I'm just he's

1140
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 1: a useful He's a useful comparison. I just really hate

1141
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 1: Dr Phil. So the formal complaint this woman filed led

1142
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 1: to a decision from the Psychology Board that Dr Phil's

1143
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 1: practice would have to be supervised for a year. Before

1144
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 1: that time came up, he quit his practice and moved

1145
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 1: to Dallas to start a new company, courtroom UH Sciences Incorporated,

1146
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 1: or cs I, with his neighbor from Wichita. His job

1147
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:42,560
Speaker 1: was basically to use his psychology knowledge to help lawyers

1148
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: pick jurors. He loved the work, particularly the adrenaline that

1149
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: came from the high stakes of a court case. Doctor

1150
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 1: Phil's company was a hit, and his clients soon included

1151
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 1: every major airline on Earth, three TV networks, and dozens

1152
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: of Fortune five hundred companies. Before long, it came to

1153
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 1: include bro Winford. Damn. Yeah, I mean like, you know

1154
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 1: it's coming, but you know it's coming longer. Why Oprah

1155
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 1: and airline? Yeah, the two, the two sacred things in

1156
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 1: our society, Oprah in the airlines. I want to know.

1157
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: Every single time Oprah comes into the discussion, I am like,

1158
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: where was Stepman on all of this? Where does he?

1159
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 1: Because Steadman, what were you fucking doing? Where is Stemen

1160
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 1: writes books that are alleging to be about something but

1161
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 1: are actually about nothing. But he's but he's nice, so

1162
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 1: I don't care. Yeah, I hope, I hope that Stepman

1163
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 1: was like, something's not right Oprah, and she was like,

1164
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 1: I'm not listening to Stepman. I'm assuming that's how their

1165
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 1: relationship works. She was like, I'm going to make so

1166
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 1: much money, an outrageous amount of money. Steadman like, quiet,

1167
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: we're getting all I will be able to clone you

1168
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 1: when you die, Stepman. That's how much money I'm gonna

1169
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 1: make off. That's what solved him. I used to I

1170
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: used to do little fan drawings of Steadman Graham and

1171
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: the Barefoot Contessa's husband hanging out. That's very unsettling, Jamie,

1172
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 1: if they would just be like sharing an umbrella. Anyways.

1173
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 1: So Oprah had made the questionable decision to do an

1174
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 1: episode of her show on the dangers of disease in

1175
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 1: the American beef supply. A bunch of Texas cattleman sued

1176
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 1: her for fraud, defamation and you know, just hurting their businesses. Now,

1177
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 1: I have no idea who's in the right here, and

1178
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 1: I really don't care. The case looked like to be

1179
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: going badly for Oprah until she brought in Dr Phil

1180
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 1: to be a part of her trial team. He instantly

1181
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 1: recognized her as somebody could make money off of, and

1182
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 1: he set to work charming her. Filled in his job.

1183
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 1: He coached her and the defense team and how to

1184
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 1: respond under questioning, and he won Oprah's adoration, and to

1185
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 1: his credit, it seems like he did a good job

1186
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 1: because she was exonerated um and after the case ended

1187
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: in her favor. She did a Verdict episode of her

1188
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 1: show from Amarillo, Texas, where, for the first time she

1189
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:09,600
Speaker 1: introduced Dr Phil McGraw to a national audience. She called

1190
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 1: him one of the smartest men in the world. She

1191
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 1: was so impressed that she added that he was like

1192
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 1: literally the most intelligent man she'd met in her twelve

1193
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: years of talking to medical experts. She said she wanted

1194
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 1: to share his brilliance with the world. Yeah, this hyperbole

1195
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 1: is gonna get and we are. We are going to

1196
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 1: talk about where this hyperbole gets all of us in

1197
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 1: Part two of our epic series Dr Phil, What a

1198
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: What a dick? Whatever is that? The subtitle of perfect

1199
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 1: fuck fucking a? Dr Phil? Come on? Could not? Could

1200
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:50,480
Speaker 1: you not? Could you just go back to football? I

1201
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 1: feel like one more head injury could really solve a

1202
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: lot of our problems as a country. The thing is

1203
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 1: like that, every single time you're like, well, god, damn,

1204
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 1: I bet that if this whole football being john different,

1205
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 1: the world would be a lot less. Dr Phil. Yeah,

1206
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 1: I don't even necessarily want his football career to have gone. Well,

1207
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 1: if he's just gotten a hit harder, you know, that

1208
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 1: would have been enough for me. Okay, Okay, you know

1209
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 1: what you I I see, I see your coin to do?

1210
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: Yeah anyway, Jamie, Ye any plug doubles you want to drop?

1211
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, just the usuals. You can listen to back

1212
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 1: past the lead to podcast and my R and Mensa

1213
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 1: on I Heart Radio. And then I have a new

1214
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 1: podcast coming up about Cathy comic Woo woo in June.

1215
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 1: That's so he's producing. I'm excited check out Jamie's Erotic

1216
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 1: Cathy podcast. I assume it's erotic, is that correct? But

1217
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 1: I mean it's very you know what I you know,

1218
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 1: I wish that Cathy was having a lot of sex,

1219
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 1: but you can't do that in the newspapers. Not then,

1220
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't think she doesn't need to be

1221
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 1: having sex for the podcast about Kathy to just be

1222
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 1: like the fundamental, the fundamental errows Cathy is so overwhelming,

1223
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 1: you know you just you just hear that last name

1224
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 1: Gus White. And there's still time, there's still I'll let

1225
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 1: her know that an erotic podcast, can you make it

1226
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: horny or Kathy? Just like twelve anyway, I hope the

1227
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 1: rest of you have a day that's twelve percent horn here.

1228
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 1: We'll be back Thursday, m