WEBVTT - Businessweek Extra - Roger Lee

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jason

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<v Speaker 1>Kelly and I'm Carol Master. Welcome to the Bloomberg Business

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<v Speaker 1>Week Extra. It's our weekly podcast bring you an in

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<v Speaker 1>depth interview you will not hear anywhere else. And this

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<v Speaker 1>week we caught up with Roger Lee. He's a general

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<v Speaker 1>partner over at Battery Ventures, an entrepreneur and operator in

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<v Speaker 1>his own right. He talked about the state of Silicon Valley,

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<v Speaker 1>the state of the marketplace. It's a place where they

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<v Speaker 1>have invested heavily. The world is different, and yet it

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<v Speaker 1>is rife with opportunity, Carol, So you know, life is

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<v Speaker 1>I'd say life is complicated. Uh, you know, I'd say

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<v Speaker 1>work from home has been pretty stable. School from homes

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<v Speaker 1>a lot trickier. So I've got three young kids and

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<v Speaker 1>so navigating all the challenges with with school work has

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<v Speaker 1>been has been a little complicated. But our our work

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<v Speaker 1>and what we're doing day to day as investors really

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't shifted that much. We're staying very active. Have a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of themes were very excited about. These are themes

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<v Speaker 1>that we've been investing in a long time, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>ranging from cloud computing, to consumer marketplaces and and believes

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<v Speaker 1>either these are really durable opportunities, you know, kind of

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<v Speaker 1>pre COVID and post COVID. So we're continuing to stay

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<v Speaker 1>very active and uh and looking for for you know,

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<v Speaker 1>great entrepreneurs, building you know, transformative companies, and so we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to continue to invest even during you know, what

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<v Speaker 1>are you know, otherwise pretty challenging periods and the same

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<v Speaker 1>types of entrepreneurs sort of coming at you. Is it

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<v Speaker 1>a in the same flow or what's different about either

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<v Speaker 1>what you're seeing or who you're seeing? Rather Yeah, i'd

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<v Speaker 1>say that, you know, the one big question a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of us ask ourselves is, uh, you know, having meetings

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<v Speaker 1>in person is virtually impossible these days. So are are

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<v Speaker 1>we going to invest in an entrepreneur we've never met

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<v Speaker 1>in person before? We we haven't had to cross that

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<v Speaker 1>bridge just yet. There are a couple of opportunities we're

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<v Speaker 1>looking at right now where where we are asking ourselves

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<v Speaker 1>that question. All of the investments we've made since Shelter

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<v Speaker 1>in Place have been with companies that we we've known

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<v Speaker 1>for a long time. We've had relationships with the entrepreneurs.

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<v Speaker 1>They're part of themes we've been investigating for a while.

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<v Speaker 1>So so we haven't had to address that issue just yet.

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<v Speaker 1>But depending on how long this goes on, there's definitely

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<v Speaker 1>a scenario where that question won't come up and we'll

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<v Speaker 1>have to figure it out. But you know, the the

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<v Speaker 1>um in terms of the makeup and the composition of

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<v Speaker 1>the entrepreneurs and the themes that that part hasn't changed

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<v Speaker 1>too much. Again, we we tend to be a pretty

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<v Speaker 1>thematic firm, and so we have a handful of of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, product market spaces we we go very deep

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<v Speaker 1>into and and invest in and and we you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're excited about the themes we've been investing in and

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<v Speaker 1>the entrepreneurs that are are building companies in those categories.

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<v Speaker 1>So so that part hasn't actually changed too much. It's

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<v Speaker 1>just the way we're you know, doing diligence and and

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<v Speaker 1>how we're interacting with them purely over video. That's been

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest, probably the biggest shift. It's X, right, So

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<v Speaker 1>it stinks or its sticks, well, depending on depending on

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<v Speaker 1>the day, if there's too many of them. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>like here's a little bit of both. Yeah, Well we're

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we're kind of professional meeting takers. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>if you look at the calendars of the average investor,

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<v Speaker 1>we're you know, spending many many hours a day, um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, meeting with entrepreneurs doing diligence on those those investments. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>And so we spend huge portions of our of our

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<v Speaker 1>lives just literally sitting in conference rooms meeting with people.

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<v Speaker 1>And so that part has shifted a lot. And it's

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<v Speaker 1>hard for sure, because you know, there's um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a belief and I think there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>logic to this that um, you know, you you have

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<v Speaker 1>to develop a relationship, you have to have chemistry with

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<v Speaker 1>the entrepreneurshi're gonna work with, because we're typically in these

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<v Speaker 1>investments for eight ten years, it's not longer. And the

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<v Speaker 1>only way you can really navigate the inevitable ups and

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<v Speaker 1>downs what happens is if you have a really good,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, relationship and great chemistry with this person. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's easier to get divorced than it is to

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<v Speaker 1>get rid of your investor. And so we take these

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<v Speaker 1>relationships very seriously. We only make a handful of investments

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<v Speaker 1>every year. Well, let's continue our conversation with Roger Lee,

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<v Speaker 1>general partner at battery ventures. Who I'm so glad it's

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<v Speaker 1>still with us because probably listening to us here about

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<v Speaker 1>thousand dollar haircuts, He's like, I thought this was a

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<v Speaker 1>serious radiation. I'm done with these two was joining these

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<v Speaker 1>two idiots, Jason. I can't believe you only spend a

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<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars and was great. I would expected a lot more. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate that. Yeah, it sounds good. I'm just gonna say, Roger,

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<v Speaker 1>like almost what every week, every every other week, every

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<v Speaker 1>other week? Yeah, but I mean it's like I go

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<v Speaker 1>to Lenny, you know, like down the street on Third Avenue,

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<v Speaker 1>and many times all right, it's like twenty bucks a pop.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, let's bring in Rogers, all right. So Roger, Um,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, one of the things in all

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<v Speaker 1>series is like I haven't been to Lenny. I haven't

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<v Speaker 1>been doing all the normal things that I've been doing.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, I do think about sort of where

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<v Speaker 1>our lives were, especially as consumers, and all the things

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<v Speaker 1>that we had done when we traveled, whether it was

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<v Speaker 1>me and my family staying in an airbnb, whether it

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<v Speaker 1>was Carol and I going to the airport and hopping

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<v Speaker 1>in an uber. You know, these marketplaces that we had

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<v Speaker 1>come to rely on so much. I do wonder, as

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<v Speaker 1>an investor in you know a lot of names around

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<v Speaker 1>this sector as well as someone who is thinking about

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<v Speaker 1>where to put future capital, how do you think of

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<v Speaker 1>that business model going forward? Yes, so, we we've been

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<v Speaker 1>active investors in marketplaces for a long time, over a

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<v Speaker 1>decade now, and continue to think that that marketplaces well,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, fundamentally changed the way consumers lived their lives

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<v Speaker 1>on a day to day basis. So we we are,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, very enthusiastic about these businesses. But I will

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<v Speaker 1>say the past year has been a really really interesting time.

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<v Speaker 1>There's been a real kind of Darwinian separation between between

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<v Speaker 1>the winners and the losers, and that's been you know

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<v Speaker 1>taking place in both the public markets and the private markets.

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<v Speaker 1>You're seeing you know, companies that um, you know, really

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<v Speaker 1>aren't aren't well known and aren't as well understood performing

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<v Speaker 1>extraordinarily well, whereas some of the really big successful ones

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<v Speaker 1>like the Ubers and the lifts that really have really struggled.

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<v Speaker 1>And so as investors, we spent a lot of time

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<v Speaker 1>trying to figure out what what is that recipe for success?

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<v Speaker 1>What it what is separating the winners and the losers.

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<v Speaker 1>So we we look a lot at the business model efficiency.

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<v Speaker 1>We think there's been a very strong investor change and

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<v Speaker 1>sentiment from growth at all costs. This was the era

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<v Speaker 1>of uber and lift, and we work a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>years ago to now in an era of really efficient growth. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is um you know, I think separated a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the winning marketplaces from the losing marketplaces, and

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<v Speaker 1>the ones of adopted that mindset, the efficient growth mindset,

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<v Speaker 1>have performed a lot better. So we spent a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of time trying to find, you know, those companies and

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<v Speaker 1>trying to really focus on that. Do you think something

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<v Speaker 1>like an uber and left their viability longer term is

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<v Speaker 1>questionable or is it just a pause right now because

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<v Speaker 1>of the backdrop. No, there's definitely no existential question. They

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<v Speaker 1>will continue to survive. I just think that their business

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<v Speaker 1>model is harder to execute on and there's real questions

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<v Speaker 1>about how profitable it is long term, and and the

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<v Speaker 1>public markets have you know, have shown that to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>have ever reflected that in terms of their stock performance?

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<v Speaker 1>And there you know, the multiples they trade at our

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<v Speaker 1>a fraction of what some of their peers in in

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the marketplace world trade at that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>UM have performed much better over the past year and

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<v Speaker 1>traded much higher multiples because they're running far more profitable companies.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I don't I don't think they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>go away, but I just think they really need to

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<v Speaker 1>shift the operating model to be much more efficient businesses.

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<v Speaker 1>Talking about shifting models, Roger, you know, I do feel

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<v Speaker 1>like with retail, I do wonder if it's a bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a Barbell approach where people who can afford to

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<v Speaker 1>will pay for companies that UM coincide with their beliefs, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and whether it's their impact on the environment, who they hire,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, UM and so on, or who's doing their manufacturing.

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<v Speaker 1>And then at the low end, I mean, the last

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<v Speaker 1>couple of weeks, the last thirteen weeks with the virus,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we've seen a reminder of the inequalities in

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<v Speaker 1>our world, and there's a lot of people who are

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<v Speaker 1>at the lower end of the wage spectrum, in the

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<v Speaker 1>economic spectrum, and so they need those retailers, whether it's

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<v Speaker 1>a Walmart or so on. Is that how you see

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of the consumer space, retail space, does it

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<v Speaker 1>continue to move along that line, I think so that

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<v Speaker 1>what we've really seen is the separation is much more

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<v Speaker 1>to do with how asset heavy the retail businesses and

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<v Speaker 1>the ones that have really struggled, the ones that are

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<v Speaker 1>the clearing bank or seeing the ones that that have

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<v Speaker 1>really underperformed publicly are the asset heavy retailers, the big

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<v Speaker 1>physical footprints and and um, you know, large kind of

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<v Speaker 1>fixed costs and how they operate, whereas the ones that

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<v Speaker 1>have thrived are really asset light, if not totally digital. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>This is you know the obvious examples here Amazon and

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<v Speaker 1>Wayfair and businesses like that that have performed extraordinarily well

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<v Speaker 1>in this timeframe. Um, And so that that seems to

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<v Speaker 1>be the kind of the clearest dividing line. And these

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<v Speaker 1>were you know, trends we were already seeing over you know,

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<v Speaker 1>over the last you know, ten plus years. But what's

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<v Speaker 1>really interesting is that, you know, it took us ten years,

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<v Speaker 1>if not fifteen years, to get to ten percent you know,

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<v Speaker 1>penetration of e commerce and total retail, and in the

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<v Speaker 1>last twelve weeks alone, that numbers doubled. And so, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>if there's been one seismic shift that we've seen from

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<v Speaker 1>shelter in place. It's just the adoption of you know,

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<v Speaker 1>digital online s us is from e commerce to education

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<v Speaker 1>to telehealth, all of these things that's been really redefined

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<v Speaker 1>over the past couple of a couple of months here,

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<v Speaker 1>and we've we've taken five to ten years of of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, experimentation and shifted it into one quarter. And

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<v Speaker 1>so all the companies that were kind of digitally native

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<v Speaker 1>or really benefiting, the ones that that had you know,

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<v Speaker 1>old world assets, I think are really struggling. So Roger

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<v Speaker 1>want to close our conversation just by asking a question

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<v Speaker 1>We've been asking a lot of the smartest people we've

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<v Speaker 1>had on this program, uh, and we've talked a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit about sort of the practice of what you do

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<v Speaker 1>and and maybe the theory as well in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>your investment thesis. But I do wonder on the other

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<v Speaker 1>side of this, and this was a question we started

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<v Speaker 1>asking in the pandemic, but I think it's even more

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<v Speaker 1>relevant given what we've seen over the last couple of

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<v Speaker 1>weeks with some of the civil unrest and some of

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<v Speaker 1>the really deep thinking that we're doing about society. What

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<v Speaker 1>do you think changes permanently on the other side of

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<v Speaker 1>this as we get back to work or back to

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<v Speaker 1>the office as it were, and we get back into

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<v Speaker 1>sort of thinking about who we want to be in

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<v Speaker 1>what we want to be. What do you think sticks Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's a macro and a micro to that.

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<v Speaker 1>I think on the macro you're going to see a

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<v Speaker 1>far greater distribution of opportunity and a far broader distribution

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<v Speaker 1>of capital. Historically, innovation, you know, is very closely correlated

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<v Speaker 1>to GDP, and so most of the capital was concentrated

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<v Speaker 1>in the big you know, kind of um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of GDP centers of the country, so you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Silicon Valley, New York City, places like that. And if

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<v Speaker 1>you look over time, that's shifting, and that's now being

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<v Speaker 1>accelerated by work from home and people being comfortable working

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<v Speaker 1>over video. So more and more opportunities are going to

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<v Speaker 1>shift out of those markets as people look for less

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<v Speaker 1>dense places to live, more affordable places to live. And

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<v Speaker 1>so I think you'll see you know, really really exciting

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<v Speaker 1>businesses being built all over the place and not just

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<v Speaker 1>in some of these kind of dense you know, GDP

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<v Speaker 1>and innovation quarters. I think that that's going to the

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<v Speaker 1>big macro shift, which which is very healthy, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think at the micro level, UM, what I hope and

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<v Speaker 1>what I expect is that every company will take a

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<v Speaker 1>very hard look at their own hiring products, at their

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<v Speaker 1>own kind of hiring and inclusion policies, and make a

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<v Speaker 1>really concerted effort towards, you know, finding more diverse candidates,

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<v Speaker 1>implementing the many rule UH and ensuring that people of

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<v Speaker 1>all color and backgrounds have the ability to be successful

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<v Speaker 1>inside their companies. And I think that will have an

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<v Speaker 1>equally profound impact. You've been listening to Bloomberg Business Week Extra,

0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.480
<v Speaker 1>and be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Radio

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<v Speaker 1>Live Monday through Friday at two pm Wall Street Time

0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.079
<v Speaker 1>on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Nasser and I'm Jason Kelly.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg