1
00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:10,440
Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:16,800
Speaker 2: Guten get routin Blowing and welcome to the podcast. Come Josh,

3
00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,520
Speaker 2: there's Chuck and it's just the two of us today,

4
00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:21,320
Speaker 2: which is why we're feeling a little crazy.

5
00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:26,120
Speaker 1: Oh man, I just did a cow bell as donk donk.

6
00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:28,120
Speaker 1: I think it's flunk.

7
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,280
Speaker 2: Came through, It came through. There's a bit of a

8
00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:32,040
Speaker 2: dunk to it.

9
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,360
Speaker 1: I owe a big apology to uh, what's his name,

10
00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,240
Speaker 1: Rick Allen? Is that his name? The drummer def Leppard's drummer.

11
00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:40,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, sounds like it sounds right.

12
00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,520
Speaker 1: I mean, can you believe that a major rock band's

13
00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,600
Speaker 1: drummer lost his arm and learned how to play without

14
00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,680
Speaker 1: that arm? Well, not only that like an amazing story.

15
00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,680
Speaker 2: It is amazing because they were like right right about

16
00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,480
Speaker 2: to hit their peak. They were like rocketing up and

17
00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,120
Speaker 2: again you'd think that was just the end of it,

18
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,320
Speaker 2: but nope, can't keep him down.

19
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,920
Speaker 1: What a story. I think when I was a kid

20
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:09,400
Speaker 1: and that happened, I was like, oh wow, that's cool.

21
00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,319
Speaker 1: But now that I'm an adult and I'm like, if

22
00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,840
Speaker 1: I have a bad ankle sprain, I'm done. It's just

23
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,880
Speaker 1: amazing to me that he lost an arm and like persevered,

24
00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:20,720
Speaker 1: just incredible.

25
00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:22,640
Speaker 2: What's also cool, I think is that this is in

26
00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,880
Speaker 2: the eighties and somebody was sharp enough to develop software

27
00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,200
Speaker 2: that could kind of like help him with the extra

28
00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,840
Speaker 2: beat that he couldn't get to with just one arm.

29
00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,080
Speaker 2: Like that was just amazing in and of itself as well.

30
00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,760
Speaker 1: Well, I thought he used the other foot, right, isn't

31
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:40,320
Speaker 1: that what he did?

32
00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,000
Speaker 2: I believe there was software involved as well.

33
00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,720
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't know that. I thought he just learned

34
00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:47,200
Speaker 1: how to incorporate that.

35
00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,960
Speaker 2: Oh no, are you like, well, I'm not really impressed.

36
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,800
Speaker 2: After all, I have to look into that more.

37
00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,000
Speaker 1: This has nothing to do with what we're talking about,

38
00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:00,200
Speaker 1: except for the sort of German that's not even German.

39
00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,080
Speaker 2: Is it? They're British?

40
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,520
Speaker 1: I know, But that those are even real words, are they?

41
00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:07,920
Speaker 2: No? I don't think so. It seemed like a Swedish

42
00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:08,760
Speaker 2: chef kind of thing.

43
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,320
Speaker 1: Oh goodness, we're talking about learning foreign languages, because that

44
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,680
Speaker 1: is something Ed helped us out with this, and he

45
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,560
Speaker 1: very quickly points out that's a real mark of and

46
00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,720
Speaker 1: always has been like, oh you know, they speak four languages.

47
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,079
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, that means boy, they're super smart and

48
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:31,560
Speaker 1: they're very worldly, and you know it. It certainly requires

49
00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,120
Speaker 1: some intelligence to speak many languages. I think to be

50
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,760
Speaker 1: a polyglot, But it's always something that people tout and

51
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,520
Speaker 1: I don't blame them. If I speak four languages, that's

52
00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,440
Speaker 1: the first thing I'd say, Hey, I'm chuck. I speak

53
00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:45,040
Speaker 1: four languages.

54
00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,120
Speaker 2: By the way, it almost rivals telling people that you

55
00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:49,360
Speaker 2: went to Brown or Harvard.

56
00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:52,920
Speaker 1: That's only two languages.

57
00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, So do you speak anything other than English these days? Well?

58
00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 1: No, We've talked a little bit about our language background.

59
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,639
Speaker 1: I took high school German and then college German and

60
00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:08,160
Speaker 1: did a little traveling in Germany because because I did

61
00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,320
Speaker 1: my European tour, but I don't remember much of it.

62
00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:17,040
Speaker 1: I don't ever practice it, but it is it was

63
00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,360
Speaker 1: something that I would pick up, you know, quicker than

64
00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,880
Speaker 1: if I tried to learn Spanish, which is on my

65
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,520
Speaker 1: list to try and do. Yeah, I really want to.

66
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,160
Speaker 1: It's just like do I have the time, and then

67
00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,600
Speaker 1: the answer is yes, I just have to do it,

68
00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,560
Speaker 1: you know. But I really would like to learn Spanish

69
00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:37,080
Speaker 1: because Spanish.

70
00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:38,960
Speaker 2: Spanish is on my list.

71
00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,320
Speaker 1: But before we talk about what people in the biz

72
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,880
Speaker 1: call L two. We should talk a little bit about

73
00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,400
Speaker 1: L one, which we've talked a little bit about before,

74
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,960
Speaker 1: But L L one is like when you when you're

75
00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,320
Speaker 1: just a little dumb baby and you learn how to talk,

76
00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,560
Speaker 1: which I can now attest as a parent is one

77
00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,280
Speaker 1: of the most remarkable things you can witness as a

78
00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:08,160
Speaker 1: human learning language that's really neat, seemingly by themselves, because

79
00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,880
Speaker 1: you're not saying like this is how you say spoon.

80
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,880
Speaker 1: Kids learn language quickly and it seems like innately, and

81
00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:16,960
Speaker 1: we'll talk about all that now.

82
00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,960
Speaker 2: I remember learning to read, and it almost seemed to

83
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,760
Speaker 2: me like overnight, like it just started clicking. And I

84
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,080
Speaker 2: think first grade. Jeff always wondered, isn't that kind of late?

85
00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,479
Speaker 1: No? Okay, good, No, it's not at all. If you're reading,

86
00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:32,880
Speaker 1: you're doing fine.

87
00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,560
Speaker 2: I got to impress everybody with what age I started

88
00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:36,640
Speaker 2: reading at the No.

89
00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,719
Speaker 1: In fact, if you're reading like pretty well at six,

90
00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:40,440
Speaker 1: that's pretty good.

91
00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:42,920
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say pretty well. But all of a sudden,

92
00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:47,080
Speaker 2: it was like books went from just lines of scribble

93
00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:52,479
Speaker 2: to sensible, sensical things that I could decode and interpret.

94
00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:53,800
Speaker 2: And I was like, wow, that's neat.

95
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:55,560
Speaker 1: No, No, that's good. Six is great?

96
00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,719
Speaker 2: Okay, good you look at you. Thank god you're a parent,

97
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:00,680
Speaker 2: because I'd be totally lost if you weren't.

98
00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,520
Speaker 1: All right, So we'll talk about some of the language

99
00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,920
Speaker 1: theories the first, like whether or not they're still relevant

100
00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,480
Speaker 1: or not. The first is called critical period hypothesis. Long

101
00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:16,240
Speaker 1: standing debate about this. It was proposed by a dude

102
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,479
Speaker 1: named a neurologist named Wilder Pinfield along with Lamar Roberts

103
00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:25,080
Speaker 1: in a nineteen fifty nine book called Speech and Brain Mechanisms.

104
00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,919
Speaker 1: And this is the idea that there is a critical

105
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,920
Speaker 1: period in a young person, a young human's life where

106
00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,919
Speaker 1: your brain has the plasticity that's just off the charts

107
00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:42,920
Speaker 1: and it can learn language then, and after that, learning

108
00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,000
Speaker 1: a new language is a lot harder.

109
00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:50,960
Speaker 2: Yes, which seems to be what generally people think of today, right.

110
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:56,120
Speaker 1: I mean sort of. I think critical period hypothesis made

111
00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 1: it seem like it was really, really, really hard after

112
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:04,240
Speaker 1: this because they didn't really believe in They thought plasticity

113
00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:05,479
Speaker 1: stopped at a certain point.

114
00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,400
Speaker 2: Okay, I got you. Yeah, Because there was a time

115
00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,320
Speaker 2: where people thought that you had all the neurons you

116
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:12,880
Speaker 2: were ever going to have when you were born and

117
00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:17,599
Speaker 2: you just you know, smoked hashish and lost them over time.

118
00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:19,800
Speaker 1: I was about to say the same thing. Oh yeah,

119
00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,280
Speaker 1: like you smoked them away a few at a time

120
00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:22,120
Speaker 1: or what exactly.

121
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that all of your neural connections were formed,

122
00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,080
Speaker 2: you know, in your by your teens maybe, and then

123
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 2: after that you just got dumber and dumber. Right, So

124
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,159
Speaker 2: this is this is that that that's that school of thought.

125
00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:40,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that basically things are pretty fixed after that

126
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,040
Speaker 1: certain age, and that that's why it's so hard to

127
00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,760
Speaker 1: learn language later on. But we now know that that's

128
00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,600
Speaker 1: not true, and your brain can still be very plastic.

129
00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,680
Speaker 2: But it's remarkably close just in its principle, in the

130
00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,880
Speaker 2: basis of its idea, it seems.

131
00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:56,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty hard.

132
00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:59,520
Speaker 2: What were the names of the two guys again.

133
00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,440
Speaker 1: Wilder Pinfield and Lamar Roberts.

134
00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,960
Speaker 2: They sound like an alternate universe Steely Dan, you know,

135
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,480
Speaker 2: like those are the members of Steely Dan in the

136
00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:11,320
Speaker 2: eighth dimension.

137
00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Pinfield and Roberts. I like it.

138
00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:16,239
Speaker 2: I just made myself laugh.

139
00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,840
Speaker 1: Sponge theories next, and that's one that has really gone

140
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:20,800
Speaker 1: the way of the DODO, right.

141
00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. They used to think that you just kids just

142
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,680
Speaker 2: absorbed everything like sponges. Like you were saying, it was

143
00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:32,280
Speaker 2: remarkable and magical to watch Ruby just suddenly learn to speak. Yeah,

144
00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,360
Speaker 2: that was noteworthy enough to enough people that they're like,

145
00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,640
Speaker 2: we didn't teach this kid anything. They just absorbed it, right,

146
00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 2: And there's a certain degree of that. But one of

147
00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,480
Speaker 2: the problems with sponge theory, which has generally been discarded,

148
00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:52,000
Speaker 2: like you said, is that it really underestimates the importance

149
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,600
Speaker 2: of active learning. It's basically saying passive learning. I read

150
00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 2: there's like a New York Times blog post about kids

151
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,800
Speaker 2: learning l one and somebody was saying they were pointing

152
00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,480
Speaker 2: out just how poor an analogy the sponge theory is

153
00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,320
Speaker 2: Bye Bye. They put a picture up during one of

154
00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,720
Speaker 2: their talks. There's a bucket of water and then a

155
00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,160
Speaker 2: sponge like on the table next to it, right, and

156
00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,160
Speaker 2: it's like their proximity isn't enough, Like there has to

157
00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 2: be some sort of action and activity as well.

158
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,679
Speaker 1: You gotta dip it son. The other another good analogy

159
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,640
Speaker 1: Ed pointed out is like that's like saying, if you're

160
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,240
Speaker 1: just an American household and but you'd let your kid

161
00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,120
Speaker 1: watch nothing but Spanish speaking television, that they're just gonna

162
00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:37,920
Speaker 1: learn Spanish.

163
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, but apparently that works if you're an adult.

164
00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:46,360
Speaker 1: No, okay, no, but watching foreign language movies can be

165
00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:47,040
Speaker 1: a tool.

166
00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:52,000
Speaker 2: I have a friend from way back. He taught himself

167
00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,800
Speaker 2: French by watching French movies, got himself a job with UPS,

168
00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,520
Speaker 2: worked there for eight months, and then put in for

169
00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:01,439
Speaker 2: a transfer to Paris and moved to Paris.

170
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:02,360
Speaker 1: What.

171
00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was very cool. He went on to become

172
00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,320
Speaker 2: the bass player and the number two most popular rock

173
00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,320
Speaker 2: band in Turkey according to a Pepsi cola full of

174
00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,480
Speaker 2: that nation years after he moved on from Paris.

175
00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,920
Speaker 1: Is a friend of yours. Yeah, that's amazing.

176
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was very cool. I don't know what became

177
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,480
Speaker 2: of film. I lost him after he moved to Turkey,

178
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:24,880
Speaker 2: but yeah, good guy.

179
00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:30,320
Speaker 1: That happens. Yeah. So behaviorism is the next one, and

180
00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,720
Speaker 1: that is BF. Skinner was a big proponent of this,

181
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:39,440
Speaker 1: and he wrote that language learning was akin to verbal behavior.

182
00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,240
Speaker 1: So basically your blank slate and learning a language is

183
00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,880
Speaker 1: like learning any other behavior. You learn it through reinforcement,

184
00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,160
Speaker 1: through either being praised or being punished, and like really

185
00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:50,760
Speaker 1: working at.

186
00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:56,000
Speaker 2: It right and then if you, like you said, it's

187
00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:01,559
Speaker 2: the reward in punishment is really really important, you know. Yeah,

188
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,120
Speaker 2: that's how you learn what's right and what's wrong. That

189
00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,800
Speaker 2: has a little bit of basis in reality too, Like

190
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,840
Speaker 2: all of these competing theories, if you just carve a

191
00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:11,600
Speaker 2: little bit out of each one and put it together,

192
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,319
Speaker 2: you've got learning language.

193
00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's with a lot of theories, like

194
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,120
Speaker 1: people aren't usual one hundred percent wrong.

195
00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,600
Speaker 2: Sure. So the opposite of behaviorism, by the way, is

196
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,559
Speaker 2: called nativism. It says no, no, no, we're not born

197
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,599
Speaker 2: as blank slates, and we just learned by observing and

198
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,479
Speaker 2: through trial and error, reward and punishment. There's our brains

199
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,880
Speaker 2: are basically pre wired to not only give rise but

200
00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,880
Speaker 2: then also interpret and use what's called the universal grammar.

201
00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:47,960
Speaker 2: That humans have some sort of inborn ability to speak

202
00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:53,840
Speaker 2: languages to one another. And this was a cornerstone of

203
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,160
Speaker 2: Noam Chomsky's career, if not the whole thing.

204
00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, he talked about and I know we talked about

205
00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:05,600
Speaker 1: this in another episode. The language acquisition device, which is

206
00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,280
Speaker 1: not a sort of a real body part, but it's

207
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,800
Speaker 1: like a hypothetical tool, right that no chomps chomps key,

208
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,000
Speaker 1: Why is a T in there? It's already a baggy name.

209
00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:19,080
Speaker 1: Who names are Kidnome?

210
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,120
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I mean it really works. Those

211
00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:23,959
Speaker 2: two names together work really well.

212
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,040
Speaker 1: I don't know much about this guy, but it's a

213
00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,480
Speaker 1: name that I've heard three thousand times in my life,

214
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:29,920
Speaker 1: so I need to brush up a little bit.

215
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,760
Speaker 2: He was, in addition to being a linguist who's very

216
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:37,360
Speaker 2: very opinionated, very far left leaning cultural critic as well,

217
00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,240
Speaker 2: who made him some really great points. But he, you know,

218
00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,839
Speaker 2: anybody like that attracts scorn and ire. Sure there's a

219
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,160
Speaker 2: lot of critics of Noam Chompsky as well, but he

220
00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,199
Speaker 2: was very interesting. He was a public intellectual. As a

221
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:51,320
Speaker 2: way to put it, I guess.

222
00:11:51,720 --> 00:12:00,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So about phonemes, Yeah, phonemes. I always

223
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,600
Speaker 1: want to say phenomes. I know, I just scooped up.

224
00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:08,200
Speaker 1: Josh corrected me. We did that that part. Phonemes, Yeah, phonemes.

225
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,199
Speaker 1: Ed points out that a language, maybe let's say a

226
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,239
Speaker 1: language has like forty ish phonemes phonemes.

227
00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:16,840
Speaker 2: Are you doing this on purpose now?

228
00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,400
Speaker 1: I'm really not. I'm sort of losing my mind right now.

229
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm watching an unravel.

230
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:25,880
Speaker 1: It's fast, but babies start to grasp these or at

231
00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,040
Speaker 1: least the relevant ones of their language is early at

232
00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,400
Speaker 1: six months and baby talk, the little gobbledygook sounds that

233
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:38,400
Speaker 1: babies make are different than like an American baby's gobbedygook

234
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,720
Speaker 1: is different than a child than a little baby in

235
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:41,880
Speaker 1: Africa's gobbledygook.

236
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:42,640
Speaker 2: That's amazing.

237
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:43,720
Speaker 1: That is so cool.

238
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,480
Speaker 2: So those are the kind of the big theories about

239
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,640
Speaker 2: language acquisition. L one acquisition, right where you just learn

240
00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,880
Speaker 2: your native language and you become fluent in it for

241
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,840
Speaker 2: whatever reason. Apparently we don't have that quite figured out yet.

242
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,319
Speaker 2: Now we move into L two acquisition, and one of

243
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:07,600
Speaker 2: the fundamental hallmarks of learning a second language in particular

244
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,680
Speaker 2: is that it seems to be way easier for kids

245
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:12,720
Speaker 2: than it is for adults.

246
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,440
Speaker 1: That is true, Why I don't think that it's that

247
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,400
Speaker 1: like they've, like you said, earlier, discovered that plasticity can

248
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,319
Speaker 1: occur in adults. And it's not like an impossibility or

249
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,920
Speaker 1: really really really hard like they used to think. It

250
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,720
Speaker 1: is definitely easier for a kid. A kid can learn

251
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:36,400
Speaker 1: many languages. There really is not like a limit. There

252
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,800
Speaker 1: are outliers where kids, you know, like these little phenoms

253
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,880
Speaker 1: learn you know, six seven, eight languages. Those are outliers

254
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,800
Speaker 1: for sure, But like your average just sort of bilingual

255
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:53,040
Speaker 1: kid raised in a bilingual household is very common these days,

256
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:58,000
Speaker 1: and it's not the case where like well, but if

257
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,360
Speaker 1: you're teaching your child Spanish, you know when are growing

258
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,000
Speaker 1: up as well as English, you're not the time you're

259
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 1: spent talking about Spanish is taking away from the English

260
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,760
Speaker 1: that they're going to fall behind, and that is just

261
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,240
Speaker 1: proven to not be the case.

262
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would think, if anything, it would make you

263
00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:13,920
Speaker 2: excel a little more in other stuff.

264
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:19,960
Speaker 1: It does. Supposedly bilingual kids do better at problem solving situations.

265
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,280
Speaker 1: We'll talk about some other stuff like socially, but they

266
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,040
Speaker 1: don't experience learning delays or issues. It's just not something

267
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:28,080
Speaker 1: that they've seen happen.

268
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,240
Speaker 2: And the fact that there's outliers like you were talking about,

269
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,560
Speaker 2: who who learn multiple languages as children makes you kind

270
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,280
Speaker 2: of wonder, what is there an upper limit two languages

271
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,720
Speaker 2: that a kid can learn? And the answer is yes,

272
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:43,720
Speaker 2: apparently it's three.

273
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:45,120
Speaker 1: Oh I said there was none?

274
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,560
Speaker 2: Is there there's oh?

275
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,560
Speaker 1: Non outliers? Okay, I got you right.

276
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:55,960
Speaker 2: Practically speaking, three is the max because language experts aka

277
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,800
Speaker 2: linguists suggests that you need to spend about twenty to

278
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,680
Speaker 2: thirty percent of your waking time practicing learning a language.

279
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:05,920
Speaker 2: If you're learning another.

280
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 1: Language, so do the mas, right, and that would.

281
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,600
Speaker 2: Leave time for I'm never doing that again. That would

282
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,840
Speaker 2: leave time for nothing else. If you were focusing on

283
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,400
Speaker 2: learning three languages at once, that would be the upper limit, right,

284
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:21,920
Speaker 2: at least learning them at once.

285
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,800
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, that makes sense.

286
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,080
Speaker 2: But there are people out there, just real quick, Chuck,

287
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,440
Speaker 2: who have learned tons of languages. There's a guy, a

288
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:34,800
Speaker 2: Canadian named Powell Janulus or Powell Janulus. He's credited with

289
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:39,640
Speaker 2: knowing forty two different languages. What another guy named Ziad

290
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:44,640
Speaker 2: Faza he I think is the current record holder at

291
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:45,480
Speaker 2: fifty nine.

292
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,960
Speaker 1: These are kids are just people people, okay.

293
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,840
Speaker 2: And then back in the eighteen fifties, the governor of

294
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,560
Speaker 2: Hong Kong, Sir John Browning, was reputed to know two

295
00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:00,120
Speaker 2: hundred languages and speak one hundred of them. What so

296
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,400
Speaker 2: that's what everybody said when they met him.

297
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he said, would you like to hear that

298
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:09,480
Speaker 1: in a hundred different ways? Before we break real quick.

299
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,280
Speaker 1: I did want to mention because one of the things

300
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,760
Speaker 1: I when I was sort of assigning this article out,

301
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,520
Speaker 1: was like, is there you know, is there any like

302
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,800
Speaker 1: research on why Americans tend to be less multi lingual?

303
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,280
Speaker 1: And there's really not research that I've seen, but it

304
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,560
Speaker 1: seems to be that there's just like you don't think

305
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:27,920
Speaker 1: of it when you live in a big city and

306
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,200
Speaker 1: you're you're you have people that speak all kinds of

307
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,440
Speaker 1: languages in big cities, but lots and lots of America

308
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:36,680
Speaker 1: doesn't do that.

309
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,240
Speaker 2: Well, They're not exposed to it as much.

310
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,320
Speaker 1: That's what I mean. It's like lots lots of towns

311
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 1: and lots of cities in America, you don't get a

312
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,560
Speaker 1: lot of foreign languages. So if you don't have that exposure,

313
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,360
Speaker 1: then you're you're probably not going to be as interested.

314
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,360
Speaker 1: And then there are also and I'm not like call

315
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,920
Speaker 1: anyone out, but like there are also a lot of

316
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,840
Speaker 1: people that still think like, well, no, gosh darn it,

317
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,240
Speaker 1: like this is what you speak here, and this is

318
00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 1: what you're gonna learn here, and I don't want you

319
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,600
Speaker 1: to learn in any Spanish or anything like that.

320
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,119
Speaker 2: People used to say that publicly. Yeah, I'll bet though

321
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:12,800
Speaker 2: it would be easy to study if you you know,

322
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,680
Speaker 2: went along the border with Mexico, you probably find way

323
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:21,320
Speaker 2: more bilingual people than say in Atlanta or the border

324
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 2: of Canada, you find more people who spoke Canadian and English.

325
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,600
Speaker 2: It'd be easy to study, is what I'm trying to say.

326
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:30,200
Speaker 2: I don't know why.

327
00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,120
Speaker 1: Anyone should we take a break? Sure, all right, let's

328
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,240
Speaker 1: break and we'll go learn a language and we'll be

329
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:36,680
Speaker 1: right back.

330
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 2: So check. I got fascinated with this critical period stuff

331
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,679
Speaker 2: that we kind of went over. The critical period hypothesis.

332
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,680
Speaker 2: It makes a lot of sense to me. It's backed

333
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,800
Speaker 2: up by some research. Apparently. What the problem with the

334
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,800
Speaker 2: seely Dan guy's hypothesis was that they went too far.

335
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,359
Speaker 2: They made it too absolute. And it's just not the

336
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,080
Speaker 2: case that people can't learn things as adults. I mean,

337
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,640
Speaker 2: they should have probably figured that out from the outset.

338
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,400
Speaker 2: But it is much harder to learn a language as

339
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,120
Speaker 2: an adult than it is to learn an L one

340
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,199
Speaker 2: language as a kid, or even L two language as

341
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:37,560
Speaker 2: a kid.

342
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I used to hear when I was younger,

343
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,480
Speaker 1: because fluency is a funky word that I don't even know,

344
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,239
Speaker 1: like everyone agrees on what that means. Because when I

345
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,040
Speaker 1: was younger, I used to hear you know, and this

346
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,840
Speaker 1: is just that probably playground stuff, you know, when you're

347
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,159
Speaker 1: just talking linguistics on the playground by the jungle Jim Like,

348
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,120
Speaker 1: I used to hear two things. One is you can

349
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 1: never be fluent in another language because you're always translating

350
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,680
Speaker 1: it in your mind, and to be truly fluent means

351
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,800
Speaker 1: that you are thinking in that language. Not true. You

352
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,280
Speaker 1: can thinking in another language is a learned skill. As

353
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,679
Speaker 1: it turns out, you can teach yourself to do that.

354
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 1: And then the other thing I heard was you can

355
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,080
Speaker 1: never be fluent or maybe a sign of fluency is

356
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,920
Speaker 1: if you dream in a different language, And that isn't

357
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,600
Speaker 1: true either, because I look that up today and apparently,

358
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 1: even like basic knowledge of another language, you can dream

359
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,480
Speaker 1: in that language. I think if you know how dreams go,

360
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 1: if you're like thinking about that free fall a sleep,

361
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,360
Speaker 1: you might dream in a language and it apparently has

362
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 1: nothing to do with fluency.

363
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,240
Speaker 2: God, is there anything that you heard on the playground

364
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,080
Speaker 2: that you could trust?

365
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,239
Speaker 1: Yes, is that your father could be sued for all

366
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 1: the money that he's got very easily by a child.

367
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,440
Speaker 1: Apparently sure? Oh no, I think the kid's parent would

368
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,480
Speaker 1: usually sue my dad's gonna sue your dad. It's work.

369
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, typically, I mean even as a kid, you knew

370
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 2: that you had very little standing in the court of law.

371
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,680
Speaker 1: That'd be a funny sketch for a sketch show, like

372
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 1: like a juvenile court if their dad's going to sue

373
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,560
Speaker 1: your dad and then they actually take it and adults

374
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 1: try the case.

375
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 2: If there were funny sketch shows on TV anymore, that

376
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 2: would be great.

377
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: Oh but there are. Oh yeah, yeah, I think you

378
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 1: should leave with Tim Robinson.

379
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,400
Speaker 2: Oh that's true, very funny with the party Hardison too.

380
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,960
Speaker 2: Have you seen her Instagram stuff? No?

381
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 1: Is that an account I should follow?

382
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 2: She? Yes, for sure. I don't know if that's I

383
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 2: think that is her handle on Instagram. But she's a writer.

384
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:47,120
Speaker 2: She's also on his show, like as a character here there,

385
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,120
Speaker 2: and she's hilarious. But yeah, she's great too.

386
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,120
Speaker 1: I think I might know who you're talking about.

387
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 2: Do you remember? I think in the first episode of

388
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 2: the first season they're doing kind of like a shark

389
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 2: tank thing and one of the sharks is like, I'm

390
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 2: rich because I've won the lottery. Now I drink wine

391
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 2: all day long. I can't get enough wine. Do you

392
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 2: remember that that one? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's them.

393
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 2: And I can't remember their real name, party Hardiston is

394
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 2: just their handle, but I think it's like Patty Harrison

395
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 2: or something.

396
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 1: It is, it's Patty Harrison and I knew her from

397
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 1: Adie Bryant's show Shrill. That was so great.

398
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 2: Oh I saw that one.

399
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 1: I need to follow It was good. I need to

400
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 1: follow Harrison's account though, because she like every time I

401
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 1: see her on TV, I'm like, she is one of

402
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,399
Speaker 1: the weirdest comedians. Yeah, all the best ways.

403
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,239
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. But yeah, I think you should leave.

404
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:41,880
Speaker 2: Is amazing.

405
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:47,879
Speaker 1: So where were we? Uh you were talking about critical period?

406
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So the whole idea of why it's

407
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 2: harder for a kid or for an adult to learn

408
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 2: a language, a new language then it is a kid,

409
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 2: is because supposedly there is this critical period. There's a

410
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 2: window of time it's estimated to end anywhere from five

411
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:12,640
Speaker 2: to your mid teens, where your brain is like, I'm

412
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 2: down for whatever. Teach me whatever you want, I'm going

413
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 2: to I'm going to learn it. You just have a

414
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 2: higher degree of neuroplasticity, right, you can form in adjust

415
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 2: new neural connections, which is the basis of learning and

416
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 2: like memorizing and retaining new things.

417
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we talked about the fact that now we

418
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: know that we can regenerate new neurons, make new neural connections,

419
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,360
Speaker 1: all the good things that you can do as a

420
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: child in that critical period you can still do as

421
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: an adult. Should we talk about inhibitory neurons.

422
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 2: I want to do at least a short stuff on them,

423
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 2: if not a whole episode. They are fascinating.

424
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like we've talked about them before, for sure.

425
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 1: These are neurons that basically say, you know, is this

426
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: new input that getting worth making a neural connection for?

427
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: Or am I just watching another dumb sketch show. And

428
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,439
Speaker 1: they give weight to like new things and novel experiences.

429
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,719
Speaker 1: So I would think that those inhibitory neurons are if

430
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: they're still around when you're an adult, then learning a

431
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 1: new language is new and novel, So they would fire up, right.

432
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,159
Speaker 2: You would think so. But apparently they have kind of

433
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 2: set your language in stone. And the only explanation, because

434
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,919
Speaker 2: I had the same question as you, is like, that's novel,

435
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 2: that's new, those are new combinations of sounds. Why wouldn't

436
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 2: it activate your inhibitory neurons to just stand down, right,

437
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 2: And the best I could come up with this is

438
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 2: just me editorializing, I'll admit it, okay, is that those

439
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 2: new novel sounds are still following the same neural pathways

440
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 2: that say, English does. It's like the neural pathways you

441
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:05,199
Speaker 2: established for languaeuage, right, and that it's not distinguishing a

442
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: signal a different signal coming from that same neural pathway,

443
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 2: whether it's in Spanish or in English, it's still traveling

444
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 2: that same neural pathway. And the thing is so well

445
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 2: worn that the inhibitory neurons like, it's going to take

446
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 2: a lot for me to let you fire anymore because

447
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 2: you know this stuff.

448
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: That kind of makes sense because I was reading that

449
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 1: L two acquisition as an adult. It kind of giveth

450
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: and receiveth the fact that you already know a language,

451
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 1: because there's one school of thought that's like, well, since

452
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: you've done it before and you know what language is

453
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 1: and what grammar sort of is, and let's say English,

454
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 1: that it might be easier to pick up as a

455
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: concept because you already know that stuff. And then I've

456
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: also read other schools of thought that says, well, no,

457
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: it's just more difficult because you've ingrained those things, right.

458
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 2: But the thing is is you can overcome that. You

459
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 2: can be like, no, no, brain, I need you to

460
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 2: pay a little more attention. This is novels stuff we're

461
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 2: trying to do. And apparently as an adult, if you

462
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 2: put adults in kids head to head in a test,

463
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 2: which is hilarious strength, yeah, it always reminds me of

464
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 2: Billy Madison, like smacking that blocking that shot from that

465
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 2: little kid on the playground. Yeah. If you put adults

466
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 2: and children head to head. In language acquisition, adults just

467
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 2: dust kids in almost every category. The difference is kids

468
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: develop a richer understanding or acquisition of language. Adults as

469
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 2: a second language are acquiring something more intellectually than you know,

470
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 2: more fundamentally.

471
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 1: That's interesting. By the way, I've never seen Billy Madison.

472
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: Oh does he block a shot on the playground of

473
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 1: a kid?

474
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, with them to the Ramones beat on the brat.

475
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: It's perfect because Bill Murray does that in Rushmore. Did

476
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 1: he copy that?

477
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I'm pretty sure Billy Madison was out Yeah,

478
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 2: long before Rushmore for sure.

479
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: Although I just saw Asteroid City and I was just

480
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: reading up on that and other Wes Anderson stuff. Rushmore

481
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: came out twenty five years ago.

482
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 2: Dude, oh my god, please.

483
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: Don't that crazy things like that. I know, my god.

484
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: So we should probably go over there, like and I

485
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 1: know we talked about this a little bit, so we

486
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: can kind of speed through it. But the language learning

487
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: parts of the brain.

488
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 2: Oh wait, I had one more thing on inhibitory neurons.

489
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:29,719
Speaker 1: Oh, let's hear it.

490
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 2: So there's a key trait in Alzheimer's disease, which is

491
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 2: your hippocampus or hypothalamus, one of the big h regions

492
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 2: starts going like an overdrive, like really becomes super active.

493
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: And they long thought that it was basically your brain

494
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 2: trying to compensate for just the degradations of its functions.

495
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 2: It's really trying to do whatever it can, and it

496
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: does that as the hypothalmus or hippocampus. They think now

497
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: that what's happened is your inhibitory neurons in your hippocampus

498
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 2: or hypothalamus have worn away, and that's what your brain

499
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: would be doing if it weren't for inhibitory neurons. They're

500
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 2: the ones that set the pace in the rhythm for

501
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 2: your brain waves from nanosecond to nanosecond, and somehow they're

502
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 2: all coordinated with one another to give you your experience

503
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: of consciousness because you have tons of data coming at

504
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,959
Speaker 2: you all the time. They're the ones that decide what

505
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: makes it into your conscious awareness and what doesn't. How

506
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: how do they do that? They're neurons. There's one called

507
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 2: a basket neuron that wraps itself around other neurons so

508
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: it can control it more directly. And it looks like

509
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,959
Speaker 2: a basket just wrapped around a neural cell. It's amazing stuff.

510
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: Is that a comforting thing? Or is it scary that

511
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 1: there'shions now that you can be enveloped in two ways?

512
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 2: You know? Oh no, that's scary for sure. Okay, I

513
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 2: don't like anything enveloping anything else. It's just creepy.

514
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: Even a hug from you, from your most beloved creepy.

515
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 2: Okay, everybody knows being touched is creepy.

516
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. So, like I said, we're gonna go

517
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: over sort of the parts of the brain that have

518
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: to do with language acquisition that we've talked about before.

519
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: But they are three areas. Broca's area Wernicke's area and

520
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: the angular gyrs. Yeah, two out of the three. Broke

521
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: As area handles the creation of language. That's the stuff

522
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: that is really active, you know when you're the bb

523
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: Wernicke's handles comprehension, and then the angular gyrus is a

524
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: bit of a hub that connects things together.

525
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we know that there's these distinct regions that

526
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 2: do these distinct things because you can have damage to

527
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 2: one region and the others will keep going. There's one

528
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: called Wernicki's aphasia, which is where your Broker's area is

529
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 2: perfectly fine. You're able to say things, you're able to

530
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 2: generate speech, you're able to talk, but the comprehension area

531
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 2: is damaged, so you're not making any sense. And I

532
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 2: think the yeah, it was the National Institutes of Health

533
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 2: gave an example of what a sentence like that would

534
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 2: sound like, are you ready?

535
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's hear it.

536
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: You know that snoodle pinkred and that I want to

537
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: get him around and take care of him like you

538
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: want before. That's what like somebody would say if they

539
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: have that type of aphasia, and you just be like what,

540
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: and they might not have any idea what they're trying

541
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: to say either because their comprehension region is damaged both ways.

542
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 2: So you comprehend what you're saying, you also comprehend what

543
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: other people are saying, and so in that sense, it's

544
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 2: very disconnecting. Although Broke's area is disconnecting too, But apparently

545
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 2: you can still get out enough, like in a word

546
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 2: or two, that people generally know what you're saying. With

547
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: where Nikki's aphasia, they can have no clue what you're

548
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: saying at all.

549
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that was what can happen when

550
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: you have a stroke sometimes.

551
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 2: Right, that's how it usually comes about.

552
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's because my granddad when I was little, he

553
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: had a stroke and he could understand what you were saying,

554
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: and he would talk at you using you know, walking, walking, secure,

555
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: rock and rocking and they weren't even words, they were

556
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: it was just stuff like that.

557
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 2: But they were like enunciated and like individual like you

558
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 2: could see that these are distinct things that he's saying.

559
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 2: They're just nonsensical, right, yeah.

560
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it was very frustrating for him, which is

561
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: an imagine.

562
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 2: Especially if he knew what he was trying to say and.

563
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: People that's you know, yeah, I think that's the thing.

564
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: It always reminds me of that that newscaster outside of

565
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: the Emmys or the Oscars or whatever, who had, like

566
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 2: I said later, it was a migraine, but she's like

567
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 2: a very very heavy bairtation. And I have no I've

568
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: never seen anybody say like, this is what she was

569
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 2: trying to say.

570
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: I have no idea like a translation. Yeah, I know,

571
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: And at the time, I remember people are like shaming,

572
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: people are like that she had a mini stroke and like,

573
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: how dare you laugh? But I don't think that was the.

574
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 2: Case, right, No, she had good migraine.

575
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: Heavy, she had heavy Britat Barry.

576
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 2: Barry heavy bartation. I'm not sure that's gonna survive the

577
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: final edit.

578
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: I'm not sure we'll see. I saw the video not

579
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: like sometime within the past year. Again, somehow, Yeah, it

580
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: holds up.

581
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: You know what else holds up is Arthur the weather

582
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 2: Man saying pretty much everywhere it's gonna be hot. And

583
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 2: then I don't.

584
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: Know if I know that one.

585
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: Oh you do too. We talked about Arthur the weather Man,

586
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 2: and then the news anchor goes, then I don't need

587
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: a jacket, and then he just starts laughing like maniacally.

588
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 2: He's a he's a I guess, the one of the

589
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: weather people in Haiti, and that was his forecast pretty

590
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 2: much everywhere it's gonna be hot.

591
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe I have seen that you have now that.

592
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: That was like two thousand and seven or something.

593
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think when you said Haiti, it kind of

594
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: zeroed it on it. I pulled it up from my

595
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: Haitian file. So as far as those those language areas

596
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: of the brain, though, one thing that's sort of interesting

597
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: is two out of the three of those are on

598
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: the left side of the brain, on the on, yeah,

599
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: the left hemisphere, and so for like an adult human

600
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: language generally is on the left, but when you're a kid,

601
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,719
Speaker 1: your brain is its firing all over. So they've done

602
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: fMRI scans that shows that both hemispheres are going wild

603
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: when kids are learning their language, which is interesting.

604
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty cool. What also strikes me is interesting

605
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 2: is that kids learn in a general pattern that you

606
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: can predict people like basically make charts. Like I was saying,

607
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: like it is reading in first grade, you know, okay, right,

608
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: like these milestone charts. The idea that you can be like, oh,

609
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 2: your kid's going to be saying this age you know,

610
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: eighteen months, well, you know, by twenty four months, they'll

611
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 2: be putting two words together to make a sentence or

612
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 2: something like. I just think that's really neat, and I

613
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: think it kind of underscores the idea that there is

614
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: some sort of innate ability or desire to learn languages. Yeah.

615
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: I mean I think it's like it's it's got to

616
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: be evolutionary because it's a survival thing, Like you have

617
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: to learn that language to know how to survive the

618
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: world that you're born into.

619
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: But then that supports behaviorism. You can be like, this

620
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 2: is so important that you're born with a blank slate,

621
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 2: no language acquisition skills or anything, but it's so important

622
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 2: that you learn it just by observing and everything because

623
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 2: you know that this is how you're going to survive.

624
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: Or that it is innate and that you are born

625
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: with an ability because it's you know, passed down to

626
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: you through natural selection. Yeah, am I thinking of it wrong?

627
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 2: I think the only way to settle this is for

628
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: us to get in a skinner box and debate. Okay,

629
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: between electric jolts.

630
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: That sounds good. Uh, we'll take a break in a sec.

631
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: But before we do, Like you were talking about that

632
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: sort of process. For kids, their vocabulary grows, you know,

633
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: very quickly from the time they start learning up until

634
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: about the age of eight, and their vocabulary still grows

635
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: for sure, like it never stops. I still learn your

636
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,959
Speaker 1: words all the time. But by the age of eight,

637
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: Supposedly by that time, if everything is on track, then

638
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: a kid has has basically mastered how to speak at

639
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: least and understands basic grammar and basic concepts, sometimes even

640
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: complex top concepts. But I think the vocabulary is the

641
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: outlier where like you will always be learning words.

642
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're just not exposed to as many.

643
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 2: I think there's like three hundred main words used in English,

644
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 2: more than you know, like the vast majority of English

645
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: is just a few hundred words, a couple hundred words.

646
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I tell you the true sort of check yourself

647
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: moment as a parent, as when you're kid is constantly

648
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: asking what a word means when they're like Ruby's ah,

649
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: she's about to turn eight? Is well yeah, uh it

650
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: really because it's hard to define a lot of words.

651
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: So as you know, you like, you know, what does

652
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: this mean, I'll be like, oh, well it means, well,

653
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: I don't know what it means, like how to define it.

654
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: So I'll either look it up or I'll do my

655
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: best and then look it up. You know what I'm saying,

656
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: what's your score?

657
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 2: How often are you like?

658
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: Oh?

659
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 2: Right?

660
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean I'm It's tough, though, because some words

661
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: are just hard to define in words, you know what

662
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: I'm saying.

663
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I know what you're saying.

664
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: I'm even having trouble putting this into words. So let's

665
00:35:46,239 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: take that break and we'll be right back by the way.

666
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: I think the reason I was struggling was I was

667
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: trying to think of an example recently where she said

668
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: what does this mean? And I couldn't think of how

669
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: to define it. Yeah, it was like it happens all

670
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: the time though.

671
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 2: Chewing gum and tap dancing at the same time. It's

672
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 2: hard to do. You were talking while trying to recall

673
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 2: an incident at the same time.

674
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, Or it's just you know, some words are just

675
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: conceptually hard to really just sort of say in a

676
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: few words that a kid would understand, you know.

677
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:42,760
Speaker 2: Sure, like what irony, it's a great example.

678
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: Here are some tips. Well, I guess we should talk

679
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: a little bit about your expectation as an adult to

680
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: learn L Two. There was a paper in twenty eighteen

681
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:59,240
Speaker 1: that basically said, you know, up to about seventeen or eighteen,

682
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a much easier time. After that, it

683
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: is much more difficult to obtain what they call native

684
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: like fluency. But like we've been saying the whole time,

685
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: it's not like it's impossible. It's just something that you're

686
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: gonna have to work at harder than when you would

687
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: have when you were sixteen or seventeen or ten.

688
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you're overcoming those inhibitory neurons. And apparently the

689
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 2: way you do that is by making a concerted intellectual

690
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 2: effort to stridy and learn this language.

691
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are lots of different ways the immersion technique.

692
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: As Ed points out, there's nothing magic about it. Immersion

693
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: just means you're just exposed more and more, and you're

694
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: repeating a foreign language more and more, in hearing a

695
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: foreign language more and more. So, like we said earlier,

696
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: watching that foreign language TV show that can be a

697
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: nice little training tool. But one thing Ed points out

698
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: which I never really thought about, is the second part,

699
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: which is input and output. Like just watching that movie

700
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: and saying like, oh, I'm understanding this, Like that's great,

701
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 1: but you got to be able to say it. You

702
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: got to be able to write it. So maybe watch

703
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: that movie and then like write a little summation of

704
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: the movie in that language.

705
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty neat. You also need to know vocabulary. It's

706
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: just it's important.

707
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: Got to do it.

708
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if you can point to something, it's

709
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 2: almost like having broke as of phasia. You can point

710
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: to something generally kind of say the word. People get

711
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 2: what you mean. You can build from that and learn

712
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: grammatical rules over time, But the vocabulary is the basis

713
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 2: of speech for sure.

714
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no way around it. You were going to

715
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: be looking and memorizing lists.

716
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: But that's cool. I mean the key here that I

717
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 2: think people who teach languages have found in the last

718
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: few decades you do not do this in like any

719
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 2: kind of marathon cramming way. You break it into manageable

720
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 2: pieces lessons that are short enough and interesting enough to

721
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 2: keep the person's attention who's learning this extra language.

722
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. I saw another thing too, where it's easier. They

723
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 1: found in studies they do it in a non threatening environment,

724
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,919
Speaker 1: and that I knew you're gonna laugh. It sounds funny

725
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: because threatening means, you know, you get the idea of

726
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, someone's like yelling at you to learn a language,

727
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: or like.

728
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 2: You're learning a language in like a dark alley.

729
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. But what that really just means is like,

730
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 1: like they did the study of Malaysian kids learning English

731
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: and they found that they did better when it was

732
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: done through like children's stories rather than like grammar lessons.

733
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: I see, and like the grammar lessons would be like

734
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: a threatening thing. And it's probably not a great use

735
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: of the word, but like threatening meaning just sort of intimidating.

736
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,240
Speaker 1: I think maybe is the better word.

737
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 2: No, for sure, but if you hadn't used that word,

738
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 2: this would not be the classic episode that it is.

739
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: That's right, because I did see to go to kind

740
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: of tie in with that. As native speakers like when

741
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: they are come across someone who is maybe like in

742
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: their country and someone is trying to speak their language

743
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: very in a rudimentary way, then you will often go

744
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: into what's called like foreigner speak or teacher talk, and

745
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: it's akin to that baby talk where they will sort

746
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 1: of sort of dumb down and slow down their speech

747
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: a little bit and what they're really doing is making

748
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:12,760
Speaker 1: a non threatening environment.

749
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 2: Oh okay, that makes sense.

750
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

751
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 2: Another thing you want to do that I found very

752
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 2: difficult is mimicking the sounds that you're hearing. And apparently,

753
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,240
Speaker 2: even if you're not getting it quite right, you're still

754
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: getting your mouth used to saying, making the sounds the

755
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 2: phonemes of that language, and then you'll they'll just get

756
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 2: better and better, or you'll get better and better at

757
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 2: it over time with practice. But it's not something you

758
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 2: just jump into necessarily. You can learn by imitating like

759
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 2: a kid.

760
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: Is this the same thing as like when my mom

761
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: would speak a little like a British person when she

762
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: would meet someone who was Brittish.

763
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 2: Oh did she do that? Is she like Madonna?

764
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: She did that occasionally?

765
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: Wow?

766
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: Or a couple of times that we didn't know a

767
00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: lot of British people growing up. But I remember on

768
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,479
Speaker 1: vacation a couple of times meeting people and my mom

769
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: was like, all of a sudden, saying words that they

770
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: were saying that she's never said before, And I was like,

771
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: what's going on?

772
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 2: She's like frushing you drink Kaefner.

773
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, sort of trying to fit in but with the imitation,

774
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: and I'm not trusting me. My impressions are not great.

775
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 1: But I've always been able to like mimic a sound

776
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: pretty well since I was a kid, And so when

777
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: I was taking German, I always got complimented on my

778
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: pronunciation of my diction because I could just roll the

779
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: R and I could make it. I could make it

780
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: sound like My teachers are always like, hey, listen, you're

781
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: not the best German speaker, but you sound fairly German

782
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: when you're speaking it. And other kids in there, remember,

783
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: especially in the South, you would get these people speaking

784
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: German with like a Southern accent and yeah, and just

785
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: couldn't make that separation. And I think I always had

786
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 1: a little bit of a leg up because I was

787
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: always trying to mimic or impersonate it or do impressions

788
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Since I was a kid.

789
00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 2: Did you end up wearing one of those kind of

790
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 2: alpine caps with the feather in it in high school?

791
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 2: You take it to that extreme.

792
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: I was not the Saint Pauly girl or boy. I

793
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 1: didn't have later hosen, but a pretty good pronunciation.

794
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 2: That's impressive. Nice nice work, Chuck, But.

795
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: That kind of goes to what you're saying is just

796
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 1: like practice the sounds of that language, because the sounds

797
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: of that of German are can be very different than

798
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: English exactly.

799
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: And then there's there's so there's so many apps out

800
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 2: there it's crazy to just learn that have figured out

801
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 2: how to break these down into like digestible sections. And

802
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 2: if you want to learn a language as an adult,

803
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 2: there's never been a better time to do it, or

804
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 2: an easier time even, I would say, but there are

805
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 2: some reasons you might want to learn a language as

806
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 2: an adult. If you're not traveling, if you don't have

807
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 2: a significant other who speaks another language, there's if you

808
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 2: stop and think about it, there's not that many reasons

809
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 2: you would think of to learn another language other than

810
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 2: to show off. But in showing off, I'm sure is

811
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 2: there one reason some people learn languages, But there's other

812
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 2: things that Studies have shown people who learn additional languages

813
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 2: exhibit more than others who are monolingual, and one of

814
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 2: them is empathy.

815
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: Apparently, Yeah, that makes sense. They've done studies and it's

816
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: proven if you're bilingual you are more empathetic. Then if

817
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: you speak one language.

818
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, try to dispute that you can't do.

819
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: It try it in two languages.

820
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 2: That sounds to me just it just smells like one

821
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 2: of those social psychology studies for sure, But I like

822
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 2: to think that it's true.

823
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: It makes sense. It also said supposedly that if you're bilingual,

824
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: you're better at conflict management I said before problem solving,

825
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: and that kind of ties in with the next on

826
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: the list here, cognitive abilities. There are a variety of

827
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 1: things cognitively that you supposedly perform better on if you're bilingual.

828
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, like semantic conflict tests where they show you the

829
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 2: word red but it's colored in blue when they ask

830
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 2: you what color it is, and your brain's like does

831
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 2: not compute if you're bilingual or multi lingual. Apparently you

832
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: score better on tests like that. It's not entirely clear why,

833
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 2: but that kind of goes to show that it supports

834
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 2: that showing off idea. People just inherently know that you're

835
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 2: smarter and superior to them if you know more languages

836
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 2: than they do.

837
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like you were talking about earlier with Alzheimer's,

838
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 1: if you it's a workout for your brain, So any

839
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: anytime you were doing something so sort of intimidating and

840
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 1: drastic is learning a completely new language a little later

841
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: in life? You are giving your brain a real, really

842
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 1: solid workout.

843
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Supposedly, all bilingual Alzheimer's patients had onset five years

844
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 2: later on average than monolingual Alzheimer's patients.

845
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,399
Speaker 1: Man's that's reason a lot of years.

846
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you got anything else about learning a language?

847
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: Nine good pick.

848
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 2: By the way, nice work, hiks. If you want to

849
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,280
Speaker 2: learn more about learning a language, go learn another language

850
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 2: and you can figure it out firsthand. And since I

851
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 2: said that, of course it's time for listener mail.

852
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this Josh ohs Chuck and apologies that

853
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: that's a boy.

854
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 2: This sounds familiar.

855
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: Yeah again, Hey, guys, this is from a trucker. We

856
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: heard from a lot of truckers, which I knew we would,

857
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: which is great. Shure. Hey, guys, really enjoyed the trucker episode.

858
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 1: I thought it was funny and ironic when you two

859
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: had a disagreement of the pronunciation of Steve Adore during

860
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: listener mail. Chuck infested not questioning Josh when he used

861
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: it earlier in the show, thinking it was better to

862
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 1: not appear ignorant than Josh pontificated about how's pronounced exactly

863
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: like it's spelled Steve Dor. But I got news for

864
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: you guys. It's most assuredly Steve Door. So Josh please

865
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 1: apologize to Chuck. Sorry, Chuck, no problem. Thanks for the fun, guys,

866
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: yours knowingly.

867
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:10,959
Speaker 2: That's a great sign off, Steve Door.

868
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: Oh Man, I wish Tom Hubert in Seattle, Washington.

869
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 2: Tom Hubert's another name for a longshoreman. No is it

870
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 2: Tom Hubert? No?

871
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: I think it's tomay Hubert.

872
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Tom. We appreciate you big time, and keep

873
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 2: on trucking. Tom was a trucker, right, I don't know.

874
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 2: I think it is in the industry somehow. Okay, Well,

875
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 2: if you want to be like Tom and you're in

876
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 2: some sort of industry that we've touched upon, you want

877
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 2: to correct us, that's cool. We're always open to that.

878
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 2: You can be like Tom and be very nice about it.

879
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 2: We appreciate those the most. But either way, you can

880
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 2: send us an email to Stuff Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

881
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

882
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: For more podcast guests my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

883
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows