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Speaker 1: I guess I grew up. Hey, everybody, welcome to episode

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Speaker 1: one six, the five of the Hunting Collective. I've been

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Speaker 1: O'Brien and I'm joined by Phil t Engineer, who's eating

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Speaker 1: some leftover ravioli four cheese ravioli. There's nothing fancy in it. Wow.

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Speaker 1: We just wow. We just went went with the standard.

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Speaker 1: Um it was. It was good, though. Ravioli is a

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Speaker 1: good leftover in my opinion. Yeah, no, I don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't have any argument with that. I have right now

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Speaker 1: in my head all these wild turkey dishes I'm gonna try,

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Speaker 1: UH and I'm thinking wild turkey ravioli like grounded up.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I've got a lot of ideas for

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Speaker 1: all these turkeys I'm gonna kill and you're gonna kill

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Speaker 1: this year. I've been making my plans. I bought my

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Speaker 1: tags this morning for many states that we're gonna go to.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited. I'm very excited. Twitter painted I just got

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Speaker 1: back from a super top secret UH content mission in Alaska,

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Speaker 1: so hopefully we'll be able to share that with you soon.

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Speaker 1: But so if I sound a little horse, it's because

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Speaker 1: I just was in an airport all last night again.

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Speaker 1: I got three hours of sleep, But I'm here. I'm

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Speaker 1: here for you guys. We're gonna do a good show. Okay, Philly,

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Speaker 1: You're ready. Never been more ready, Ben and your whole

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Speaker 1: damn life. Well, today we have Ben Cassidy. Ben Cassidy

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Speaker 1: works for s c I s Far Club International. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We talked about a lot of things, but particularly trophy hunting,

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Speaker 1: what it means in the broader conservation sense, but what

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Speaker 1: it also means, you know, on the ethical and societal

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Speaker 1: and really also political grounds that it was used in

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Speaker 1: the California Bear episode that we've talked about in the

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Speaker 1: weeks prior. So Ben Cassidy's to direct your of government affairs.

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Speaker 1: He's in d C. He deals with a lot of things, UM,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's it's good to have him clear

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Speaker 1: up a little bit about what what Savar Club International is,

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Speaker 1: what they do. Um, if you're so inclined how you

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Speaker 1: can get involved with them, I think they're probably painted

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Speaker 1: with a very broad brush in terms of Africa and

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Speaker 1: trophy hunting and all the things we do. So we

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Speaker 1: broke that down for you in this episode. M But Phil,

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Speaker 1: since you're our resident doctor and our resident PhD and

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Speaker 1: also a resident non hunter as of today. Trophy hunting.

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Speaker 1: Give me your first blush reaction when we start talking

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Speaker 1: about trophy hunting, does you do you cringe at this

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Speaker 1: this topic? Uh No, not anymore. I think it's just

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Speaker 1: because I'm slightly more informed than I used to be.

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Speaker 1: But i'd say, and I know that this is incorrect,

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Speaker 1: but I would say, when someone a non hunter, here's

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Speaker 1: the term trophy hunting, they think it's shooting a large animal,

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Speaker 1: uh to without using any of the meat or hide

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Speaker 1: or anything for resources, and just displaying it as you

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Speaker 1: would a trophy as an I I have, you know,

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Speaker 1: defeated this animal, I've conquered this other living being that

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Speaker 1: is large and scary. That is what that I like.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that sounds silly or offensive to some people, but

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Speaker 1: I can tell you that that is what most nonhunters

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Speaker 1: think when they hear the term trophy hunting. Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: Um And there's been many polls done on this, some scientifics.

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Speaker 1: I'm not so scientific on the you know, social acceptance

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Speaker 1: of hunting, you know, society's approval of hunting. Should we hunt?

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Speaker 1: Should we not? And really it always comes down to

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Speaker 1: how you skin it, how you explain it, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of times we are judging someone's motivation for doing

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Speaker 1: it and whether we feel it's acceptable. And so if

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Speaker 1: you the other day in a hotel room, I was

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Speaker 1: watching this show called Life Below Zero, which I never

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Speaker 1: seen this before. You know, it's a show in Alaska

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Speaker 1: about people living off the land, and in that show,

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Speaker 1: people are rather poorly in my opinion, but they're hunting

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Speaker 1: and they're shooting animals and they're butchering it on they're

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Speaker 1: shooting bears, shooting moose, And it just struck me while

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Speaker 1: I was watching that that in that context, most people

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Speaker 1: have a clear understanding of the motivation. It's I live

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Speaker 1: in the bush in Alaska. I need to kill this

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Speaker 1: moose to eat. If I don't kill this moose, I'm

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Speaker 1: probably gonna die or be forced to flee to civilization

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Speaker 1: to get grocery store. And in that context, shooting a

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Speaker 1: black bear on on national geographic is just fine. Um,

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Speaker 1: And most people would would agree. Not the most ardent

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Speaker 1: of anti hunters, but most people would agree. And then

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Speaker 1: if you skin that as that that person is out

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Speaker 1: there trophy hunting that same black bear in that same environment, Um,

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Speaker 1: it's an abhorrant act. So it just this isn't something

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Speaker 1: we haven't already covered here. But I was just watching

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Speaker 1: that It's it's cable TV, and it just felt like, um,

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Speaker 1: we're really and this goes for guns too. It's just

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Speaker 1: how you shape the conversation. It's just the narrative that

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Speaker 1: you tell um and underneath that is the same exact act,

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Speaker 1: but you know, explained away um or skinned as I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: and a number of different fashions. So that is part

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Speaker 1: of this conversation we have with Ben. It will be

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Speaker 1: a part of the conversation going forward, but one will

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Speaker 1: hope to We talked a little bit about the International

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Speaker 1: Union for the Conservation of Nature that you see in

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Speaker 1: and their opinion on trophy hunting, especially in Africa. Seis

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Speaker 1: opinion on trophy hunting and how it helps wildlife. And

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Speaker 1: so hopefully it's all if you guys go into this

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Speaker 1: conversation with eyes wide open, hopefully we'll just learn something

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Speaker 1: and we can, um, you know, kind of take what

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Speaker 1: Philps mentioned there and and explain it away a little

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Speaker 1: bit and more in terms that have a little bit

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Speaker 1: more science and data and you know, smart people's opinions

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Speaker 1: connected to him not that you're not smart filure smartest

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Speaker 1: person on this podcast by far. Appreciate it. Ben, Thank you, Thanks, Thanks.

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Speaker 1: It's got to be self aware of these days. So

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Speaker 1: I feel I got an email from a guy that

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to be named. He actually asked me not

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Speaker 1: to broadcast this email, but UM, I'm gonna kind of

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Speaker 1: go against his wishes. Sorry, uh to this emailer, but

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Speaker 1: I just think it feel like it's a really compelling

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Speaker 1: story and I want to read it. And I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna where I was going to leave out his name

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Speaker 1: and his identify his identity because he didn't want to

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Speaker 1: see this broadcast. But I do think this is an

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Speaker 1: important story. So here it goes. And he's kind of

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Speaker 1: a new Hunter Alert, emergent Hunter Alert. Here's a guy who, um,

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Speaker 1: as he'll explain here in a second, needs a mentor.

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Speaker 1: He said, Hey, Ben, First of all, I want to

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Speaker 1: say I really appreciate your podcast. I am not a hunter,

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Speaker 1: yet most of my life I viewed hunters in a

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Speaker 1: negative way. I'm someone who loves animals, all animals. I

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Speaker 1: ever understood why you would want to kill an animal

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Speaker 1: for sport. I was born on a small Caribbean Island

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Speaker 1: and I was raised in a major metropolitan city, Miami, Florida.

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Speaker 1: I was never exposed to hunting mammals or birds, but

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Speaker 1: I was exposed to fishing. I didn't know one single

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Speaker 1: person that hunted. I'm forty eight now and I still

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Speaker 1: do not have any close friends who hunt. Honestly, I

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Speaker 1: saw hunters as a bunch of rednecks that are just

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Speaker 1: trying to kill beautiful species of animals just to watch

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Speaker 1: them die. Six years ago, I relocated to Virginia. I

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Speaker 1: fell in love with the state, mostly the wilderness areas

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Speaker 1: in the high country. I started mountain biking and hiking

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Speaker 1: to take advantage of this beautiful landscape. My wife and

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Speaker 1: I recently bought some property in the Blue Ridge Mountains.

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Speaker 1: He says it's a COVID adventure. It's a property we

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Speaker 1: plan to use part time and rent out when we're

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Speaker 1: not using it. There's a pretty big hunting community here.

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Speaker 1: Previous owners told us that sometimes hunters will ask to

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Speaker 1: come over if they can bow hunt on our property.

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Speaker 1: They told us they would allow some hunters to enter theirs.

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Speaker 1: My My first reaction was, well, that's gonna change, because

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Speaker 1: there's no way I'm gonna let hunters on my property

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Speaker 1: at all. Until recently, I was pretty much against the idea.

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Speaker 1: While staying here at the property news some renovations, I've

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Speaker 1: had the opportunity to meet a few locals. I've had

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Speaker 1: a few conversations. They're really awesome people and a lot

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Speaker 1: of them are hunters. And during our conversations we talked

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Speaker 1: about hunting, and it was explained to me some of

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Speaker 1: the reasons why hunting is important for this area, how

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Speaker 1: dear populations need to be managed to prevent starvation and disease,

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Speaker 1: how most of the animals utilized, etcetera. It all made

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Speaker 1: a lot of sense to me. This led me to

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Speaker 1: put my emotions aside and understand the culture, the sport,

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Speaker 1: the lifestyle, and the conservation side of things. I've gone

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Speaker 1: down this massive rabbit hole. I approached my research with

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Speaker 1: an open mind. I was pleasantly surprised at what I

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Speaker 1: have found. The more I learned, the more I want

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Speaker 1: to devour hunting content. I was so ignorant and so misinformed.

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Speaker 1: He goes is on a bunch of things, um, but

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Speaker 1: he could at the end, he questions, how is it

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Speaker 1: that I've been so disconnected? I can watch an animal die,

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Speaker 1: yet I love meat. I can't watch an animal die

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Speaker 1: yet I love meat and have no problem going to

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Speaker 1: the supermarket's meat area and just pick up parts of

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Speaker 1: dead animals without thinking of it. How can I look

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Speaker 1: down on hunters but I have no problem with ordering

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Speaker 1: a steak at a restaurant. How can I look at

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Speaker 1: the sport that does so much for conservation than any

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Speaker 1: other sport I've ever been a part of. Finding the

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Speaker 1: information wasn't super easy. Most of what I found was

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Speaker 1: on social media and YouTube was targeted experienced hunters. Also,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't easy to watch or listen to some of

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Speaker 1: the stuff I found. Like I said, I really pursed

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Speaker 1: with open mind, and most people that are against hunting

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Speaker 1: are probably not as open minded. So he goes on

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Speaker 1: to explain a bunch of things he wants to do

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Speaker 1: to learn, but at the end he starts to talk

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Speaker 1: about he wants to go hunting. He said, even if

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Speaker 1: I get into hunting, and I'll probably never take a

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Speaker 1: shot to bear. But now starting to be okay with

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Speaker 1: the idea that it should not be banned, I feel

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Speaker 1: like putting all this information out there would be very powerful.

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Speaker 1: I want to help with that, but I also need

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Speaker 1: someone to take me hunting. I have so many ideas.

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Speaker 1: I can see this all happening right in front of me.

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Speaker 1: I've already learned so much. And by the way, I'm

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Speaker 1: still looking for that mentor. If you or anyone you

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Speaker 1: know would like to take me on my first hunt,

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Speaker 1: I would be forever in debt. Just be prepared to

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Speaker 1: see a grown ass man cry so because we're not

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Speaker 1: going to share this this gentleman's name, but I do

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Speaker 1: think hearing this somebody go through this, this idea of

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Speaker 1: I was ignorant. I didn't know, but now I'm learning.

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Speaker 1: I think it's incredibly important. So hopefully um the author

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Speaker 1: of this email doesn't get too mad at me, but

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Speaker 1: I just really felt as important to read. UM. So,

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Speaker 1: if you are in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia

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Speaker 1: or anywhere in Virginia, you and you feel like you

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Speaker 1: have a some time this fall or this spring to

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Speaker 1: mentor a new hunter, an emergent hunter in our space

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Speaker 1: and write us an email writing email t HC at

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Speaker 1: the Mediator dot com, th h C at the meat

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Speaker 1: Eater dot com, and I can connect you with the

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Speaker 1: author of that this piece, who again is never hunted,

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Speaker 1: was against it for a long long time, and has

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Speaker 1: done the work because he's he met some really nice

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Speaker 1: people that explained some things to him. So I've seen

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Speaker 1: some people on the our Our buddy Robbie from Blood Origins,

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Speaker 1: who was on the podcast a couple of months ago,

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Speaker 1: a month or so ago, was was talking about social

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Speaker 1: media and uh, you know, made a video about how

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Speaker 1: every post on your social media really means something. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure that's that's true, but it's also

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Speaker 1: you look at this email and you realize that every

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Speaker 1: person you meet you have a chance to kind of

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Speaker 1: explain this because there's so many people that need to

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Speaker 1: explain um. And so going back to to last week

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Speaker 1: and the weeks prior, this us versus them mentality only

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Speaker 1: creates barriers to that conversation. And so if you find

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Speaker 1: somebody that that doesn't understand hunting and hates it, you know,

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Speaker 1: be patient, listen, explain yourself, and you could end up

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Speaker 1: just like this email, and you'd end up with someone

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Speaker 1: who is forty eight years old and and um going

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Speaker 1: to give it a shot probably, you know, just like

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Speaker 1: Phill the engineer here, Phil did that that that touched

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Speaker 1: you a little bit that email. Yeah, I know, it's

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Speaker 1: I he was super open um and I really I

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Speaker 1: really appreciate that. I thought it came through. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's he genuinely feels like he's kind of approaching this

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Speaker 1: new chapter in his life, which is Yeah, it's fun

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Speaker 1: to see. Yeah, and it's it's you know, I think

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Speaker 1: I imagine that's why we wax on every week about

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Speaker 1: this because it is such a big deal. Um, what

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Speaker 1: how we eat and how we see animals and all

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Speaker 1: that is intertwined. There is a big deal. It does

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Speaker 1: impact people. It involves a lot of emotion and a

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Speaker 1: lot of um. Like I said, a lot of political

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Speaker 1: and societal pieces of that are baked into the conversation.

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Speaker 1: So hopefully we can anybody from the Blue Ridge Mountains,

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Speaker 1: anybody from Virginia you want to take a new fellow hunting,

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Speaker 1: we got the guy for you. I will be happy

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Speaker 1: to ask him for permission to hook you up. And

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Speaker 1: hopefully we can help this, uh, this brand new hunter

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Speaker 1: get out there for the first time. Since it is

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Speaker 1: the Year of the Hunter, Philip, the Year of the

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Speaker 1: New Hunter here at THHC. So hopefully it's technically the

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Speaker 1: year of the Ox, Ben, I'd just like you to

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Speaker 1: know the the the Lunar New Year was just a

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Speaker 1: couple of days ago. Is that exciting? I've never hunted

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Speaker 1: a Knox. I'd like to. They seem delicious. Uh, well,

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Speaker 1: I would say as of right now, Phil as at

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Speaker 1: this moment, the theme song contest is over. We have

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to reveal it today, but we have

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Speaker 1: many win Nurse. I think I've read, We've gotten I

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Speaker 1: don't know how many submissions, too many probably to read.

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Speaker 1: So apologies to those of you that we won't get

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Speaker 1: to buried in these emails, but there's so many good ones.

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Speaker 1: I think we're gonna make an amalgam of all these

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Speaker 1: songs and let Kayla Ray help us put that together.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, we have I think we have what

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Speaker 1: we need. If you're gonna if you send me a

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Speaker 1: song between now and when this airs tomorrow and Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: will definitely read it, So fire them away when you're

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Speaker 1: if you can listen to this on Tuesday THHD at

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Speaker 1: the media dot Com. We are ready next week to

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Speaker 1: bring on kaylor Ay and to get this song together

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Speaker 1: and um see what she has to say, Well, see

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Speaker 1: whether she likes it, or hates it or regrets her decisions,

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Speaker 1: or maybe she doesn't never talk to us again. You

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Speaker 1: never know. But we're moving on with the T a c.

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Speaker 1: Theme song, and hopefully here before the month of February

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Speaker 1: is over, we got something good for you all to

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Speaker 1: listen to every single freaking week. We got a lot

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Speaker 1: of other some other less fun things get into. But Phil,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure because we've been talking

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Speaker 1: about love so much on the show lately, marriage and

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Speaker 1: all types of things around just the topic of being

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Speaker 1: with our loved ones. Phil, what happened over there for

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Speaker 1: Valentine's Day? Oh not a whole lot. So the thing is,

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Speaker 1: our our anniversary is actually on the thirte um, so

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Speaker 1: we don't really celebrate Valentine's Day. We just kind of

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Speaker 1: turned the whole couple of days into like an anniversary

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Speaker 1: slash Valentine's Day thing. We just kind of treated as

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Speaker 1: like one special day. Um, gifts were exchanged, uh you know,

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Speaker 1: the kids joined in. We made some yummy food you

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Speaker 1: know we need. We never make a big event out

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Speaker 1: of it. I told you I was having an allergic

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Speaker 1: reaction to the flowers that I that I bought her

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Speaker 1: so I've got to stop. I've gotta stop doing that. Man,

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Speaker 1: it's a terrible idea. Every time I get her flowers,

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Speaker 1: I'm like sneezing, uh, NonStop for about a week. To

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Speaker 1: be clear, we're not an anti flowers podcast. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: my dad ran a flowershop for my entire life, so

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Speaker 1: I have an affinity for the florist industry, especially small businesses.

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Speaker 1: So we're a pro flowers podcast. Yeah, but you just

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Speaker 1: gotta find once you're not allergic to. Yeah, last year

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Speaker 1: I was gone for our anniversary slash on tines. This

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Speaker 1: year I was here, and this year you were gone

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Speaker 1: for Valentine And so how how'd that go over? Well?

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Speaker 1: My wife is always nice enough, just be like, we'll

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Speaker 1: celebrate when you get back. And then I didn't get

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Speaker 1: back when I was supposed to, and so that really

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Speaker 1: messed things up. But I did do a lot of

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Speaker 1: I did little airport shopping for my family and got

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Speaker 1: them all kind of like airport you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: not lame but not not very thoughtful airport gifts, you know,

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Speaker 1: airport shopping gifts. So they were excited about that. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of candy involved. There was a lot of

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Speaker 1: you know, we like to have everyone so while would

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Speaker 1: like to just jam out in the morning, SERI, we

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Speaker 1: just turn on music, dance around, do what we gotta do,

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Speaker 1: and then iran household. Um, we have fun. Man. I

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Speaker 1: learned that in the pall funny enough because when we

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Speaker 1: were in these small villages and we were hunting into

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Speaker 1: Paul some years ago. You would wake up in the

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Speaker 1: morning there'll be two or three guys out just playing

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Speaker 1: these flutes, dancing around like that sounds like a great

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Speaker 1: that seems like a great way to start the day.

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Speaker 1: It's like a wonderful Why don't I get up and

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Speaker 1: play the flute and dance around when I like it's

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Speaker 1: a good way to have h the day begin. And

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Speaker 1: so every once in a while we just jam out

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Speaker 1: and we did that that this morning. It sounds great.

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Speaker 1: That's a little window into the Brian household if you

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Speaker 1: were interested. Um. But to get you know, to get

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Speaker 1: back to all the big serious topics. There's been a recently,

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Speaker 1: and I think I know the reason why. I'll guess

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Speaker 1: the reason why. There's recently been a flood of new

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Speaker 1: state and local bills being introduced into legislatures, just like

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Speaker 1: the bear band bill. We've discussed Senate bill, the now

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Speaker 1: defunct Senate Bill UH in California for to Bambars. There's

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Speaker 1: been a flood of and we've gotten a lot of

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Speaker 1: communication in the inbox from you guys and and from

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Speaker 1: local chapters, from b H or the guys at t RCP.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people are talking about a lot of

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Speaker 1: state bills that are entering into legislatures. You know, we

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Speaker 1: have a lot of newly elected officials sitting in the seats.

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Speaker 1: We have a lot of people with a lot of

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Speaker 1: agendas that they can now enact, and so we're looking

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Speaker 1: at a lot of bills that we need to discuss.

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Speaker 1: There's at least three on the table that we need

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Speaker 1: to talk about, and and most of them, like I said,

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Speaker 1: I don't have the intricacies of state politics for every

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Speaker 1: state in my head, and I've done some research on

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Speaker 1: each one of these, but basically I want to go

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Speaker 1: through a couple of these and just let you know

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Speaker 1: that they're out there, and let you know how you

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Speaker 1: can get your opinion on the books before they had

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Speaker 1: before they get signed in their law. Some of these

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Speaker 1: bills intend to um banned things. And before I get

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Speaker 1: into the banning of things conversation. I will return to

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Speaker 1: what I always say and what I believe to be true.

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Speaker 1: I am never, almost never on the side of banning things.

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of libertarian in this way. I guess that's

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Speaker 1: what you might call that. I am never on the

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Speaker 1: side of banning things unless unless the person who is

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Speaker 1: proposing to ban that thing has made a, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: an objectively significant case against what they're trying to ban.

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Speaker 1: Data facts, reasoning that puts this together. Um that includes

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Speaker 1: ethical conversations around hunting, just like the one that's happening

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Speaker 1: right now in Utah. Utah has a bill, let's see

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Speaker 1: Utall's Bill is HB House Bill to It was introduced

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Speaker 1: recently by a Utah representative, a Republican fella name Casey Snyder.

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Speaker 1: He's at a paradise, Utah. This bill would prohibit the

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Speaker 1: use of trail cameras at certain times of the year

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Speaker 1: from August through December, or wireless slash cell cameras from

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Speaker 1: July through December. At the end of the year. The

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Speaker 1: bill would also impact the use of bait, making it

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Speaker 1: illegal during certain times of the year. Also during that

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Speaker 1: same time period, I just mentioned attractants and masks, as

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Speaker 1: well as salt and mineral blocks or other common livestock

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Speaker 1: subviences would not be considered bait. So those are the

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Speaker 1: two things that you stand to lose should HB two

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Speaker 1: nine five go through trail cameras during the season and bating. Now,

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Speaker 1: before I get into my my thoughts on this field,

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Speaker 1: you have just as a as the first blush using

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Speaker 1: a trail camera during the season to go hunting and

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Speaker 1: also baiting big game, elk and other things. You have

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Speaker 1: first blush thoughts on that as as the non hunter.

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Speaker 1: Not really, I mean I think I told you I

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Speaker 1: expressed my thoughts on like hunting with hounds a few

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Speaker 1: weeks ago, um, and I feel like I was way

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Speaker 1: off based there when compared to just the general opinion

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Speaker 1: in the in the hunting world. So I I don't

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Speaker 1: really know how this currently stands in people's eyes who

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Speaker 1: are actually in it. Yeah, I mean there's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of this. I think this not so much, but most

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Speaker 1: some of these bills do have are very impacted by

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Speaker 1: you know, what the non hunting public thinks of these things.

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Speaker 1: This is more of a wildlife management variety, you know,

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Speaker 1: And this is there's this. Utah is not the only

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Speaker 1: state that kind of go is going through this. You know,

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Speaker 1: one is technology changes, but two as kind of wildlife

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Speaker 1: management changes, the numbers hunters change, and the methods of

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Speaker 1: take change. A lot of this is being considered. I

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Speaker 1: personally use truil cameras a lot to scout. I used

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Speaker 1: truck cameras a ton in Montana here this year, but

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Speaker 1: I don't use them during the season. I personally feel

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Speaker 1: that's not ethical. Um. But again my personal feelings. We

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Speaker 1: gotta as we always have when we talk about ethics,

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Speaker 1: you you've gotta look at personal preference versus actual ethics.

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Speaker 1: And in this case, I my personal preference. It's not

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Speaker 1: the used bait on Big Game. Nor is it to

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Speaker 1: use wireless cell cams during the season um or used

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Speaker 1: truil cameras at all during the season. In fact, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I still have a show camera hanging out in the

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Speaker 1: middle of our republic lands that I haven't touched since September,

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Speaker 1: hopefully still there, um because I just I just don't

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Speaker 1: want to. I I understand, I want the advantage prior

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Speaker 1: to season. There's knowing the animals that are an ound

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Speaker 1: understanding travel times, understanding what's there for me. It's a

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Speaker 1: lot of understanding the predatory behavior. It's there too. Are

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Speaker 1: the grizzlies? Are their wolves at least in Earth in

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Speaker 1: our case. Um, and so that's you know, in baiting.

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Speaker 1: I just have never I don't believe ever. Maybe when

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Speaker 1: I was a younger child, we put out a salt

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Speaker 1: block when I was a kid for d year, But

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Speaker 1: that's something that I partake in. But again, I feel

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Speaker 1: pretty strongly that my personal opinion doesn't really matter here

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Speaker 1: other than the fact that I could write in to

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Speaker 1: Representative Casey Snyder and let him know my personal opinion. Um,

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Speaker 1: we have to we have to look at the science.

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Speaker 1: We have to look at the harvest data. What are

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Speaker 1: the success rates? And in Utah, what are they? What

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Speaker 1: do they tend to be with bait? What do they

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Speaker 1: tend to be without Can we know that? Is it

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Speaker 1: possible to know that and make the decisions based on that?

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Speaker 1: So I'm not going to go into any more detail. Certainly,

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Speaker 1: if you're in Utah Casey Snyder represented Casey Snyder, look

429
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 1: him up, contact his office. Do not let a bill

430
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: like HB two go through without you doing some independent

431
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: research looking into this, but also letting him know your

432
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: personal preferences and your thoughts on this, what you think

433
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: your opinion as a voter and as a hunter in

434
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: the state of Utah or outside the state of utall

435
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: matters in this case for sure. So that's that's generally

436
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: my opinion on all of these. There's another one that

437
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 1: was sent into us was Maryland House Bill nine eleven,

438
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: establishing that a person may hunt wild water fowl in

439
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: the waters of the Susquehanna Flats while standing in water

440
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: on the natural bottom only an area is designated by

441
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: the Department of Natural Resources. It also prohibits a person

442
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: from hunting wild waterfowl in the Susquehanna Flats from a

443
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: boat that is drifting, being scald or anchored in areas

444
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: designated for hunting wild waterfowl. I'll standing in a natural bottom. Again,

445
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: I'm not no need to go through exactly what that

446
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: legislation means. I've never hunted waterfowl in the Suskahana Flats,

447
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: but this has been introduced again. House Bill nine eleven

448
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 1: has introduced to the Maryland legislature as of February second,

449
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 1: and it's pending in the House Environment and Transportation Committee.

450
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: Mary Ann Losanti is one of the sponsors. She's a Democrat,

451
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: but you can get ahold of any of your state

452
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: representatives if you live in Maryland. Then there's another bill.

453
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: There's a bunch of bills that happened in Montana. But

454
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 1: just to show you that it's not only in the

455
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: Rocky Mountains that this is going on, eh Senate Bill

456
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: s B one, which was proposed to reserve six of

457
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: Montana's nonresident deer and elk licenses for only those hunting

458
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: without fitters. This is one that I'm pretty fired up about,

459
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,479
Speaker 1: but I would encourage you to go to the mediator

460
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 1: dot com and read Sam Longdren's article in this bill.

461
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: This bill actually was voted on three days ago and

462
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: sp passed the committee on party lines. Seven Republicans voted

463
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 1: for the bill, for Democrats voted against the bill, and

464
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: it has been amended from reserving non resident license for

465
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 1: those honey without fitters to thirty nine slightly less impactful.

466
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: But if you need an example, my dad applies every

467
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: year as a non resident to come hunt elk with me.

468
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: He came last year, and in this scenario he would

469
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 1: have a same the same chance as someone that's going

470
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 1: with an outfitter and scenario. But if if this bill passes,

471
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: he does not, he has a sixty chance instead of

472
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: a I guess well, you might say on chance or

473
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 1: a fair chance. And as I've heard some folks at

474
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: p h A saying, I believe in this this the

475
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: thickness of your pocketbook should not determine whether you get

476
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: to hunt in Montana as a nonresident. The outfitting community

477
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: is one that I support, and we find ways to

478
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: make sure that they have a vibrant business. But we

479
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: don't want to do that at the cost of other

480
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: nonresident hunters that want to come to the state of

481
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: Montana and hunt on their own. And so again I'm

482
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: not gonna we could debate each one of these three things.

483
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: We could get into the minutia of those things. Um again,

484
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: if you want to contact your your state senators in Montana,

485
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: let them know about spe do that right now, because

486
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: that bill is making its way toward being passed at

487
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 1: this point. Contact your Montana state senators. And again, this

488
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: is just about being active in this can unity. These

489
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: are things that may not affect you personally, like just

490
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: like me. Uh, some of these bills don't affect me personally.

491
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: Others do affect me personally, and so find you know,

492
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: whether it's back on your Hunters and Anglers, whether it's

493
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: Safari Club International, whether it's Congressional Sports Is Foundation, whether

494
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: it is Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, whether it's National Wild

495
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: Turkey Foundation, these are the places where you're generally going

496
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: to be able to connect with people that can educate

497
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: you on these issues, um can help you understand and

498
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: help you get active. As we've talked about over the

499
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks, this just happens to be a

500
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: time where we'll be kind of being flooded with these

501
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,479
Speaker 1: across the country. And if you, if anyone else out there,

502
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: has any others you'd like us to throw out there,

503
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: we're basically just gonna say what they are and how

504
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: you who you contact to get your opinion shared, Because

505
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: just like with the California Bear Band the Bear Protection Act,

506
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: your voice matters even if it's bade in Utah, even

507
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: if it's hunting waterfowl um but while being skulled in

508
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: the state of Maryland, or if it's a nonresident hunting

509
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: application for elk or deer or whatever. Here in the

510
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: state of Montana. All this matters, and this is part

511
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: of I think, really being an knowledgeable part of our community.

512
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: So hopefully this, this conversation with Seis ben Cassidy helps

513
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: you there. But be active, be active as you can,

514
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: get educated, and always shoot us the emails if you

515
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: want us to discuss something or highlights something, we absolutely

516
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: will on this year program. So, Phil, did we do

517
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: a good job there? Have your approval? Yes. If you

518
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: want any some more insight on on bad bills, you

519
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: can check out Cal's week in review. He's been doing

520
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: the bad bill round up at the end of his

521
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: episodes where he just kind of like a rapid fire

522
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: and man like, there are a ton that you didn't

523
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 1: even mention on this show. So it was just kind

524
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: of amazing how these new, these new classes of legislators

525
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: come in and just start start making their marks. So, yeah,

526
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: if you have something to say, you gotta say it

527
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: for sure. That's right. You have cal Is asking about

528
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: this bill in Maryland. I'm like, man, I wish I knew,

529
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: you know, I wish I really had the understanding, the

530
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: intricate understanding of what's happening there. But um, I just

531
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: don't because I don't live there and I don't hunt there.

532
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: But that's again, that's no reason not to get educated.

533
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: Um and Cal is doing that and I'm doing that,

534
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: and we want to be a part of this because

535
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: it's important. So listen. I wasn't aware the bad Bill

536
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: round up, but now I am. I'm gonna go listen

537
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: to that thing. Didn't hear what Cal has to say,

538
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: because again, being aware is the first step here. And

539
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: it's easy to miss these things because they can move

540
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: quickly at a time like this and there's so many

541
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: other things going on. So without further ado, Ben Cassidy,

542
00:30:51,320 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: Safari Club International, Mr Cassidy, how are you, sir, wonderful

543
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: Mr O'Brien, my fellow Benjamin, how are you? Yes? Yes,

544
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: that's why I couldn't say Ben, because I didn't want

545
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: to get into some sort of inception of Ben's. But yeah,

546
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,959
Speaker 1: the name, the name Ben. Really, I think we've had

547
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: it at least I think you're the sixth Ben. I

548
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: was looking sixth Ben on the podcast, not including me,

549
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: So congratulations. Yeah, it's exciting to be the sixth half

550
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: a dozen. Just a fun fact, I believe your middle

551
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: names Patrick's right. My name is Patrick for a day

552
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: when I was born, and then I got switched to Ben.

553
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: We dropped the Patrick, so a couple of ways that

554
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: that our names are in common. Yeah, I just feel

555
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: like for me, you know, Patrick Cassidy, that's cool, but me,

556
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: for me, Patrick O'Brien too quickly turns into Patti O'Brien.

557
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: It's just too irish. It's just just just you're preordained

558
00:31:54,680 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: to drink a lot. That's just a stereotype which I

559
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: would happily live up to. Probably. So you're in d C, man,

560
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: I am. I'm in the suburbs of Washington d C.

561
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: Our offices are right by the capitol. But I'm from

562
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: home right now, got you. Well, you know, when I

563
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: work for the n r A, I lived in Fairfax, Virginia,

564
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: So I think, you know, I think about that area. Finally.

565
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: I don't think about the belt Way too finally, but

566
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: I think, no, I still think about living there and

567
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: enjoying that hustle and bustle a d C. M. Yeah,

568
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: it's got a lot of good energy. I mean, obviously

569
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: the city has been quite changes the rest of the

570
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: planet has been since COVID happened, But assuming it'll it'll

571
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: all check back to normal, rubber band back to normal. Um.

572
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, I love the energy. I know it gets

573
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: a bad rap always trying to drain the swamp and

574
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: whatnot in the creatures and all that, but lots of

575
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: really good folks and good work here. Yeah, that's true,

576
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: and it's a good time to talk about that too,

577
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: because I think, yeah, we were talking last week, just

578
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: checking in about you know, where we all are, and

579
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: with a new administration and a job like yours, I

580
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: guess we should probably start before we jump right into it,

581
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: with what your job is for se I, and then

582
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: for the folks that don't know about s C, I

583
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: give them a little bit just you know, give them

584
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: the elevator pitch for what you do and what SEI does. Yeah. Absolutely, thanks. Um. So,

585
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: I'm director of Government Affairs. Specifari Club International. Were a

586
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: member driven organization fifty members. Really heavily focus in the

587
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: United States, but also have you know chapters abroad, UM,

588
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: really great active chapters and Europe and South America. UM

589
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: over you know New Zealand and beyond or strong focused

590
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: on conservation advocacy, our convention and membership. Those are our

591
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: four pillars that our CEO, you know, LARRD Hamburn Hamble

592
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: and laid out for us and he took over about

593
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: two years ago. UM, so AVO. You see is you

594
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: know one of our our lead pieces are our sharpest tools.

595
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: Is really what obviously attracted me that the article international

596
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: given you know, I'm directing our advocacy efforts now we

597
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: uh we span US federal government stayed in local, international

598
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: and legal advocacy. UM. You know I was drawn to

599
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: s c I. UM. I'm a sucker for a good tagline,

600
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: and ours is the first for hunters. UM. And I've

601
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: had a chance in my past life and past jobs,

602
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: you know, to work really extensively with the community. And

603
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: one thing that really stood out to me with s

604
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: c I, which you know, full disclosure, I was a

605
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: volunteer for chapter leadership and you know, work closely with

606
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: you over the last ten years. But see as the

607
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: one group that really stood out to me where when

608
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: I would you know, ask what their priorities were, Um,

609
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 1: it always involved actually talking about the hunter in their priorities. UM.

610
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: I mean obviously we're all on the same page about

611
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: wanting wanted to protect wild places and wild things. UM.

612
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 1: But just you know, I'm very interested in making sure

613
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: that the hunter is involved in the conversation. I mean

614
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: particularly given you know, how our North American model is

615
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: built and what's given its success. Um, So always you know,

616
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 1: excited to work towards championing giving voice to hunters, I

617
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: really think is what s c I is set up

618
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: to do. You know. Um, we're talking about our headquarters

619
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: in d C. Means basically a hunting embassy. We've got

620
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: a nice big building that's over on the Senate side

621
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: by the Capitol, you know where we've got our our

622
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: policy experts, We've got our lawyers, we have our wildlife biologists,

623
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: you know, all there, um and just really in place

624
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: to provide hunters of voice and you know educate like

625
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 1: the officials or you know, their staff on on our issues.

626
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: What's your day to day like in in that in

627
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: that work, um, you know, yeah, don't skip the boring

628
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: parts because they are probably you know, people will get

629
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: into this a little bit, but people have you know,

630
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: with every I think probably every conservation organization. You know,

631
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 1: everyone has what they assume is going on. Kind of

632
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 1: the more popular assumptions around you know, groups like BACKUS

633
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 1: and anglers and and your group and others. Everybody kind

634
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: of gets a broad label. But what's the day to

635
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: day like, you know, in a first for hunters environment,

636
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: when you know, when you're on the hill, Yeah, I

637
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: mean it's a grab bag. Obviously, it's been a little

638
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: different under COVID, with you know, offices shut down. It's

639
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: harder to just do a drop by and ask, you know,

640
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: a staffer to give you five minutes, say hey, give

641
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: me five when they've got to leave their office and

642
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: go to the main door of the main building to

643
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: let you in, to just come by and say hi. Um.

644
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: But traditionally, you know, it's it's just hitting the hill,

645
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill, dropping in off the office, you know, just

646
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: checking with with friends or folks that have questions and

647
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: just bringing up to speed on you know, the issues

648
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,720
Speaker 1: that we're working on. UM SCI is a different vantage

649
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: point to with the international side of things. UM we

650
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: were really well equipped, you know with working with you know,

651
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: Zoom and everything. Early on. It was the first time

652
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: you know, I'd ever used it was when I first

653
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: came onto SEI because we are needed it in place

654
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 1: to talk with all of our our friends and allies,

655
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: you know, overseas, UH, for for the different fights that

656
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: we were having. I mean, so I today I was

657
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 1: on a on a long call with our team just

658
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: going over the different you know legal cases UM that

659
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: we're involved in right now or or you know, preparing

660
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: to become involved in UM. Followed by a long call

661
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: with UM staff we have over in Brussels, UM, just

662
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: going over activities going on with the European Commission right

663
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: now that relate to hunting. So there's the focus in

664
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: our backyard, and then there's a focus you know overseas UM.

665
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: You know we have in house state lobbyists as well UM,

666
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: so we have him you know, out tracking everything that's

667
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: opening in the capital's obviously working closely with our chapters

668
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 1: on the ground and also you know, are our coalition

669
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: of friends there UM. But it's yeah, I mean it's

670
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: a it's a grab bag. It's a lot of a

671
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: lot of meeting talking to people. It's definitely a job

672
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 1: for you know, an extrovert, you know that that wants

673
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: to you know, rub elbows. I mean, it's very hard

674
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 1: in this situation where you're not doing that in person.

675
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,800
Speaker 1: I love a good you know grip and grand catching

676
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: up over a beer of coffee. But in the absence

677
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: of that, UM, it's just lots of phone calls, lots

678
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: of dialing right now. Yeah, I'm sure and let be

679
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: You know, this is always important to me too because

680
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: the concerts groups I'm a part of, its keenly aware

681
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,720
Speaker 1: of the you know, the regional and chapter level work.

682
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: What's what's a chapter look like for s c I.

683
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: And if somebody out here listening wants to join, you know,

684
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: what are they what are they looking at when they

685
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: get into chapter level work or state level work UM

686
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: as you know, as a volunteers or a member of

687
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: SCI Yeah, I mean s c I. So it's not

688
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 1: the first member driven organization that worked for I. Also,

689
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 1: like you've been worked worked at n r A previously, UM,

690
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: but s c I, I've never seen an organization that

691
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 1: members have as much you know, involvement in sway and things.

692
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,879
Speaker 1: I mean for saying, my job grassroots is critical, UM

693
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: working with our chapters that are on the ground, making

694
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: sure that you know the issues matter to them, that

695
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: it's something that that it's a priority to them before

696
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: we ever engage in it. UM. So we get a

697
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: lot of our direction out of our advocacy team from

698
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 1: from the chapters. UM. You know, like like most every

699
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: other n g O in our space, you know, it's

700
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: a it's a big social culture as well, really thrive

701
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: off of having you know, awesome banquets, awesome get together

702
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: is just that that sort of camaraderie UM. You know,

703
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 1: dudes that go towards the chapter or money that's raised

704
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: from the banquets, UM. A portion of that's kicked back

705
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: to headquarters for the work that you know I do

706
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 1: and my team does, UM, but the rest of it

707
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: stays at the chapter level for them to use you know,

708
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 1: how they want UM. And you know that will tend

709
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: to be with projects that are done in their backyard.

710
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 1: So I think it's a it's a cool set up

711
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: for a chapter where you know, not everything is having

712
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: to just blindly be sent to the mothership, but rather

713
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: they get to decide how it's used for the projects

714
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: you know that really matter to them, whether it's again

715
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: in their backyard or or or somewhere overseas UM. But yeah,

716
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: I mean I really like that the way it's set up.

717
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: It's a lot of it's a lot of you know,

718
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: personalities and opinions, but obviously we're all on the on

719
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: the same page, and having folks you know, overly committed

720
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: to the cause is better than than the opposite. So

721
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 1: I like the way it's set up, being able to,

722
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: you know, work along with the chapters on what we prioritize. Yeah,

723
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 1: I've seen that and my work on a board level

724
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 1: and conservation groups where the passionate, the most passionate folks

725
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: on a chapter level or state level are the ones

726
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: that are going to get it done. But they're also

727
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: the ones that you know, they need attention and they

728
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 1: want to be active, So you got to manage those things. Yeah,

729
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: but I know that, you know. I would also say

730
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: that I hear a lot of people that listen to

731
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: this podcasts are either coming into hunting as we we

732
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: flipped up. I don't know if you tell me if

733
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: you like this. We we turned adult onset Hunter to

734
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: emergent Hunter. We have you have to copyright an emergent Hunter.

735
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: But that's that. That's what we because I just didn't

736
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 1: like adult onset Hunter. It sounded like a disease or something.

737
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: It definitely does if you're taking a poll, Yeah, like

738
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: later early it doesn't we change it changed so Yeah,

739
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: so just so you know the parlance around these parts.

740
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 1: But that's so so we are you know, talk to

741
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 1: a lot of folks like that, and when they walk

742
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: in the door as a hunter, I won the questions,

743
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: I think because they're they're quickly ingrained in the fact

744
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: that we care about conservation and we and and there

745
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,720
Speaker 1: is a an intense level of advocacy that goes along

746
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: with a lot of the things that we do. Then

747
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: they have like a menu of conservation groups and not

748
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: an endless amount of money or time, and so they're

749
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: trying to they select the thing most important to them. UM.

750
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: So you know, go ahead and pitch them, tell them why.

751
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: As you know, and as I've told people, you can

752
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: join many groups, um, or you can just join one,

753
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: but yeah, you really need to understand the landscape out

754
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: there and what the impact and role of each is. Yeah. Absolutely, Um. Again,

755
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: you know, I'd go back to what drew me to

756
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 1: to work at s c I UM, and that's really

757
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: you know, being a voice four hunters across the board.

758
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: It's not limiting to you know, single species, single state,

759
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: single country, but it's that conservation model, you know, or

760
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: just recognizing that that hunting is a central tool in

761
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: the conservation tool kit and defending it across the board. UM.

762
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: I think you know, if you if you're looking for

763
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: for for supporting an organization that's gonna you know, have

764
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: your back, um in courts across the country. That's s

765
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: c I. I mean, if you look across the docket

766
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: at all the different you know cases going on, Um,

767
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: nobody's spread and fighting in as many courtrooms, you know

768
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 1: as the Foreign Club International is. I wasn't fully aware

769
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: of that until I, you know, came on board and

770
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: they've been pretty much blown away by it. But when

771
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 1: there's a place for for hunting to be defended, UM,

772
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: s c I is going to be there. UM. And

773
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: then on the on the political side of things, I mean,

774
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: we're we're fifty years old next year, celebrating it with

775
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: our convention next year in two UM. You know, our

776
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: lobby shop has really been in place for and the

777
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: way it is now for about half of that time. UM.

778
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: But it's really ingrained. UM. You know, members of Congress, senators,

779
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: you know, state legislator, they recognized the brand. They look

780
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: for us for guidance and direction. UM when they're considering,

781
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: you know, doing something or not doing something. UM. So

782
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, when you're supporting s c I, UM, you're

783
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: supporting having a voice um in front of legislators and

784
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: decision makers. UM. I had a chance to catch up

785
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: and listen to some of your talk on on the

786
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: California Bear Band bill UM and really love that, you know,

787
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 1: UM segment calling it is it guarding the Gate? Yeah, yeah,

788
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: we were we need start, Yeah, trademarking these things. That's

789
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: Clay nuke Yeah yeah, so Clay nuclem. Yeah. That was awesome,

790
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 1: And I mean it really really resonated with me because

791
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: especially what I see going on a lot with you know,

792
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: just fights across the planet, UM, with with guarding the

793
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: gate and you know, not just not just kicking the

794
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: fights you get into, but defending you know what the

795
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 1: other side we'll see as the lowest hanging fruit under

796
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: Anny that the ultimate method is that incremental steps towards

797
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: you know, wiping it out. UM. It sounds like apocalyptic

798
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: and all that, but I really do think it's true.

799
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: I've seen it in other you know areas, whether it's

800
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: you know, dropping the names on a on a sports

801
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: franchise or banning a certain kind of firearm. UM. I

802
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 1: just don't think the other side stops once they've accomplished

803
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: that low hanging fruit. You know, they just reached for

804
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: the higher fruit at that point. I just like, you know,

805
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: I wasn't you talk about you know, a are banning

806
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: and all that, and you know you'll see some of

807
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 1: like the the groups, like you know, every town make

808
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: that their focus, you know, to get rid of a

809
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 1: RS or what they will call weapons of war. Um.

810
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 1: But don't be fooled that, you know, if they were

811
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: to achieve that and it was banned, they don't just

812
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 1: pack up their bags, send everybody home and say our

813
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 1: jobs are done, we can all retire. Now. They moved

814
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: to the next target. I think it happens the same

815
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: way with you know, with hunting. You look at the

816
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,879
Speaker 1: most charismatic um sway opinion without science, and then move

817
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 1: on to the next thing. Yeah, And we talked about

818
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: this show when I first got recording this show and

819
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: thought about what do I want to do, And a

820
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: big part of it was wanted to kind of kicking

821
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: the door on some of the dogmas and things in

822
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: the hunting space that I just wanted to see. Is

823
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: that true? I'm being told that it's this way, right,

824
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 1: I'm being told that this is how, this is what

825
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: my belief should be as I become, you know, a

826
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: more prominent member of the hunting organized community. So I

827
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: just want to look at these issues, and I'm telling

828
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: you what you're saying, we will look at it. We've

829
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: talked to anti hunters, We've looked at legislation. UH. This

830
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 1: California bear band, as I told people a couple of

831
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 1: weeks ago with Clay, is really an amalgam of all

832
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 1: of these um ideological and political and societal things kind

833
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: of mashed together, right. And we've talked to anti hunters

834
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,919
Speaker 1: on this show. We've talked to vegans. We've examined kind

835
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: of the precedent setting that goes on in UH in

836
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: a judicial and legal way with with anti hunting legislation

837
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: or legislation to ban hunting or stop hunting or use

838
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: the Endangered Species Act in such a way. And we've

839
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: looked at that with a critical eye, not only on

840
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 1: folks what you might call anti hunters, but in the

841
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: hunting community itself to say, is this, you know, as

842
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: we look at this, is this guard the gate slippery

843
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: slope mentality? Because that stand up UM, and I think

844
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: I think it does stand up for firearms, and I

845
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,479
Speaker 1: think it does stand up for what we're talking about

846
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: with California bear bands and UM any other type of

847
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: hunting legislation ban around the country, at least as it

848
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: currently sits. I mean, most of the examples of of

849
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: hunting bands in the United States are for predators, namely bears,

850
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: mountain lions, coyotes, things, things of that nature. So I

851
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: guess that gets us to something I wanted to talk about.

852
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 1: Can you kind of give people an idea, at least

853
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: from your perspective, of the dividing line between it's, you know,

854
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 1: it's okay to hunt animals we eat, and we want

855
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: to ban the hunting of animals we maybe don't eat,

856
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: because that's really the predator hunting, you know line of

857
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: Demarcasian isn't it's it's definitely posed that way, and I

858
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: don't know that it's always mutually exclusive to to separate

859
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: the two. UM. But that also just doesn't look at

860
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: the conservation side and and the management side of of

861
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: these things. I mean, in the absence of folks going

862
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: out and hunting you know, different species, UM, how how

863
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 1: will they be managed. What will the cost be, Will

864
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,879
Speaker 1: it drain you know funds. I mean there's a role

865
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 1: for the hunter um, you know, regardless of the end product,

866
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: to be the steward and to be the wildlife manager. Um.

867
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: But again I think it's kind of they're not mutually

868
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: exclusive from from one another. I mean, when you see

869
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: like them talk about bears as being you know, only

870
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: true fees and inheedible, you know that that's completely inaccurate

871
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: having eaten bear um. And I think you know that

872
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 1: gets left out of the narrative on purpose. If you

873
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: want to go over to Africa and talk about elephant

874
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: um and that that's only done as a trophy um,

875
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,399
Speaker 1: whereas you know that that meat is actually consumed by

876
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: by folks UM. I think it's it's easy to leave

877
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: that piece out. It's easy to just focus in on

878
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: the on the trophy piece. Imagine you've seen pulling, you know,

879
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,720
Speaker 1: we've seen polling. Where do you talk to the general

880
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 1: public and you use the term trophy? You know it

881
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 1: turns people off in wide numbers. UM. So I would

882
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,720
Speaker 1: say on the other side, it's it's their effective messaging

883
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: when they only focus it in on that term. Yeah,

884
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 1: and leave out the rest of the story and make

885
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,280
Speaker 1: it seem like it's the only you know, the reason

886
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: being used for the hunt. Yeah, and I do think

887
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: it it carries over to a R fifteens in a

888
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:01,399
Speaker 1: in a very um logical way, because you're looking at

889
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: the creation of a term that denotes something that's that

890
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: simplifies an issue, and to note something that's scary, right,

891
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: so trophy or or really seemingly unethical or unnecessary. Right,

892
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: So you have trophy hunting, that's easy to explain that away,

893
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: and then you have assault weapons, it's easy to explain

894
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: that away. So it just creates these logical traps for

895
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:28,760
Speaker 1: people that don't that aren't educated on particularly those two things.

896
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: And so um, it's hard for us and don't know

897
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 1: to ask, you know, like the follow up questions. You know,

898
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 1: if the conversation just focused on elephant being killed by

899
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: a blood lusting you know, guy from from America that's

900
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: only going to mount it on his wall, it leaves

901
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 1: out the whole conversation about where the proceeds and the

902
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: profits went from from that hunt to the community to livelihoods.

903
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: It totally shows their voice had and it's more convenient,

904
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: you know, the way that we digest messaging. Now mean

905
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: it's a simpler story that can be spread around faster. Yeah,

906
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,919
Speaker 1: you simplify that narrative that makes it makes a whole

907
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: lot of difference. Um, we called that. We were talking

908
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 1: about that the other last couple of weeks about it's

909
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: it's really like a populous high ground. Like you know,

910
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: if people that are trying to ban the things that

911
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 1: that we love to do, um, especially even in the

912
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:25,240
Speaker 1: guard the gate sense, but overall really have the populace

913
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: high ground because they can just ask what is seemingly

914
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,720
Speaker 1: for most normal folks. Now I'm not talking anti hunters.

915
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 1: I'm talking non hunters that live in urban settings or

916
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: non hunters that just don't have the experience and knowledge

917
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: of what it takes to conserve wildlife in this country,

918
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 1: all the intricacies. You could just ask them why would

919
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: you hunt a bear? Why would you own an a

920
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: R fifteen? And they'll go, I don't know. Good point.

921
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: And so it can be that simple. And so you're

922
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 1: so you guys are advocating for this, how have you

923
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 1: seen this manifested? And I think this is important in

924
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: legislation like SP two fifty two California we've went over that,

925
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: but are there other examples that you've seen that really

926
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: you know, put a finer point on how this makes

927
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:12,839
Speaker 1: its way into the legal battles. Yeah, I mean I

928
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: think you can just look across the board at at predators.

929
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: I mean, if you were to look at you know, wolves, UM,

930
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:23,280
Speaker 1: that's always spurred you know, different different ways of antis,

931
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: you know, pushing their ways. I mean, if we look

932
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:29,839
Speaker 1: at Colorado and the ballot initiative with introduction there, UM,

933
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: the slew of lawsuits I think there's three right now

934
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: that are you know out in the Northern District of

935
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: California challenging the Fish and Wildlife Services delisting UM. You know,

936
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 1: those are all done on grounds that there's injury you

937
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: know to the plaintiffs, UM, saying that you know, hunting

938
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: wipes out you know, than being in the wild. It

939
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 1: doesn't give any respect to to to the management tool

940
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 1: of the fact that you know, in the number of

941
00:52:55,440 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: areas there's growing you know, human animal conflict going on. UM.

942
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: Then at an international level, you know we see it

943
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: with with trophy bands, UM, with with the mechanism of

944
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: of importation. You know that's happening right now with Ottawa

945
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 1: and Canada in the UK UM parliament there, UM, in

946
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: Brussels with the EU. UM, we're bound to see it

947
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 1: again in d c UH. There's a big fight on

948
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: that in California of course UM last session. UM. But

949
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: that's in the same vein as a shutting down bear hunting.

950
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 1: I mean, they don't tell the full story about a

951
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 1: trophy ban is not going to stop hunting overseas because

952
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: there's no jurisdiction over that from the US. UM, but

953
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 1: it will shut down the folks that are going over

954
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: there and taking the hunts. UM being managers, providing you know,

955
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 1: money and incentives to the communities to protect this species

956
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: and manage them. UM. And that's just kind of over

957
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: the last year since I've been on board, really just

958
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: been popping up, especially UM with with with COVID Night

959
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 1: Team and health issues there. You see a number of

960
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 1: animal health builds across the planet that are kind of

961
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 1: just slipping in the trophy language because it's it's easy

962
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 1: to just tuck in there and and they make their

963
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: argument for it. But yeah, I said, I really do.

964
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I want to pose something to you know.

965
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 1: This is not something we've done on the podcast so UM,

966
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: it's you know, this is something that I want to

967
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: try to pose both sides of what I'm hearing and

968
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 1: really kind of both sides that I see with trophy

969
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,919
Speaker 1: hunting and see where we you know, where you would

970
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: take it or how you think se I would manage

971
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 1: this conversation if that's cool and and sure part of

972
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: part of this is the International Union for the Conservation

973
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: of Nature. Now can you can you explain to people

974
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: what that is just from your perspective, you know, what's

975
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: the definition of the eye you see in in terms

976
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: of its functional you know purpose? Yeah, i u c

977
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: N is an overwriting international body of scientists. UM. You

978
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: know that crosses the whole gamut of conservation UM. But

979
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 1: it's really there that you know, you'll have UM joint

980
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 1: statements put out by scientists UM that will give credence

981
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: and credit to the role that hunting plays UM for

982
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:21,280
Speaker 1: managing of different species. They have you know, there's annual

983
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: bi annual UM Congress. It's gonna they don't have their

984
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,320
Speaker 1: meeting here and Marseilles, France in September that was delayed

985
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: from last year. UM. But really, when you're talking about

986
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,760
Speaker 1: the facts and science UM at an international level. Always

987
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 1: point to the folks that i U see in because

988
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 1: they've been clearly on the record in support of hunting

989
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 1: as a management tool. They have, and that's to me.

990
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,479
Speaker 1: Anytime we get into this argument, a lot of times,

991
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 1: it becomes an ideological ideological argument, right. It becomes I

992
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: I like this and you don't. I think this isthal

993
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 1: and you don't. So it becomes a personal preference thing.

994
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: But then when we get down to wildlife management and

995
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: biology and science and how do we really make this work?

996
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: You drill down to the i U c N and

997
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: there in their position on on trophy hunting specifically, and

998
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: some other folks have called this community based conservation. That's

999
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: kind of connective tissue to that. If you don't mind,

1000
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read something from a paper that they put out,

1001
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 1: a briefing paper they put out Informing Decisions on trophy hunting.

1002
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 1: It's a little bit long, but I think it kind

1003
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 1: of encapsulates a big part of this. It says trophy

1004
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: hunting is hunting of animals with specific desired characteristics, such

1005
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 1: as large antlers and overlaps with widely practiced hunting for meat.

1006
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 1: It is clear that there have been and continued to

1007
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:43,439
Speaker 1: be cases of poorly conducted and poorly regulated hunting. While

1008
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: Cecil the line is perhaps the most highly publicized controversial case,

1009
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,919
Speaker 1: there are examples of weak governance, corruption, lack of transparency,

1010
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 1: excessive quotas, illegal hunting, poor monitoring, and other problems in

1011
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,720
Speaker 1: a number of countries. This poor practice requires urgent action

1012
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 1: and reform. However, legal, well regulated trophy hunting programs can

1013
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: and do play an important role in delivering benefits for

1014
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: wildlife conservation and for the livelihoods and well beings of

1015
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: indigenous local communities living with wildlife habitat loss and degradation

1016
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: is a primary driver of declines and populations of terrestrial species.

1017
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: Demographic change and corresponding demands for land for development are

1018
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 1: increasing in biodiversity rich parts of the globe, exacerbating this

1019
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: pressure on wildlife and making the need for viable conservation

1020
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 1: incentives more urgent. And obviously that's a couple of paragraphs

1021
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 1: in a very long paper, but I think it sets

1022
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: up kind of the strong Man theory of how Cecil

1023
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 1: a lion affects trophy hunting but doesn't define it, and

1024
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: also at the same time puts at the back of

1025
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: science and data and really a lot of some of

1026
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: this is social science, to be sure, but science and data.

1027
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: The fact that trophy hunting at this moment in time

1028
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 1: brings a value that can be seen, observed and studied

1029
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 1: and then reported back on by the i U c N,

1030
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: which is a group of scientists. Is that whole track.

1031
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: I mean, that's trying to set up like here is

1032
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: a really hard to argue with data set, set of facts,

1033
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: set of opinions that um, we should all really call

1034
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: to more often. I think yeah, And I mean I

1035
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: don't mean to dumb it down, but you know, they

1036
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: they cover the full picture. I mean, there's gonna be

1037
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 1: bad actors, right, those need to be police and corrected.

1038
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 1: But if you're gonna look at the folks that are

1039
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: doing it right, it goes under the model of if

1040
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 1: it pays, it stays. I mean that's kind of shortening

1041
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: what they're saying. But if there's a value added to

1042
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: to the to the animal, then they're going to maintain it,

1043
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: keep the population healthy and in place, rather than turning

1044
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 1: to other alternatives like you know, just mowing it all

1045
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 1: down and developing over it, which you're never gonna get

1046
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 1: that habit to a back. But yeah, I mean that's

1047
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: that's the science. Are you know, they're they're they're not

1048
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 1: trying to give it one way or another. They call

1049
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 1: balls and strikes, and I mean that's are probably our

1050
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: most pointed to statement. Um when when defending you know,

1051
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 1: what we're called trophy hunting, Um is what I you

1052
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: see in has to say there, Yeah that you know

1053
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 1: it says at the end of it, it says, if

1054
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: decisions to ban or restrict trophy hunting are taken, there

1055
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: is a need to identify and implement in advance viable alternative,

1056
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: long term sources of livelihood support and conservation incentives. That

1057
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: you could take that paragraph and just just drop it

1058
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: in California and dropping into Senate Bill to fifty two, right,

1059
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 1: I mean you could, I mean literally anywhere people are

1060
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: arguing against trophy hunting, you could say, hey, what's your

1061
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: what's your viable alternative here? Yeah? And um, I mean

1062
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: that Steven, I don't think anywhere in those two paragraphs

1063
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 1: that to say that it's location specific, right, So it

1064
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: is cut and paste into any fight that's going on

1065
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 1: in this in this realm Okay. So that's the I

1066
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 1: think that's the strongest argument for tuffy hunting and conservation

1067
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 1: based community hunting and an international and an international sense

1068
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: really because we have the North American model wildlife conservation,

1069
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 1: we have the American system of conservation funding, we have

1070
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 1: you know, systems in place that aren't necessarily in place

1071
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: in other parts of the world. Sure. Yeah, I think

1072
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: a lot of folks can take that for granted, right

1073
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: and not realized that it is unique US. I mean,

1074
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 1: it is one of our greatest exports. Also, I mean

1075
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 1: other countries are hipped to it and I want to

1076
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 1: put it in place, but we're also unique just in

1077
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 1: how egalitarian you know, hunting is the United States, which

1078
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: I always have constantly a constant reminder on it, you know,

1079
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 1: whant to talk to our friends over in Europe. I mean,

1080
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 1: in no other place is it is it really across

1081
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 1: the board middle class that gets out and makes up

1082
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: the bulk of hunting. If you go over sees it's

1083
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:01,479
Speaker 1: either you know, sustenance or just leisure activity with nothing

1084
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 1: in between. Really makes it unique for us. So we

1085
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 1: have our North American model of wildlife conservation. And we've

1086
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: had Shane Mahoney on on this program and he works

1087
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: with the i U C N and and was one

1088
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 1: of the early authors and marketers of this model. And

1089
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 1: and him and I have talked about this at length

1090
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 1: at bars, at actually at the sci Show and Marino

1091
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 1: many times we are, yeah, we often get drunk. And

1092
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:37,919
Speaker 1: one time him myself, Keith Balford who's been on the show,

1093
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 1: who now works for m Wild Chief Foundation, and and

1094
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 1: Shane got drunk and talked about this concept. Uh. I

1095
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 1: don't know how long because I was drunk, but it was.

1096
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 1: It was a long time. And we solve the world's

1097
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: problems as we tend to do in that state. So

1098
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 1: we have our model of conservation. It has a value base,

1099
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 1: you know, I would say, an underlying base of value

1100
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:03,479
Speaker 1: value these animals, uh, in a in an economic sense,

1101
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 1: in a social sense. You know the similarities between us

1102
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 1: and anti hunters. I think as always that we both

1103
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 1: want these animals around. We both you know, we're going

1104
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 1: at it in a different angle, but we both want

1105
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: these animals around different roads to get there, but angle.

1106
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 1: And so now we have we'll find the number, let's

1107
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 1: just call it ten thousand. Knowing that I that's not

1108
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: an updated number that I know of. We have ten

1109
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: thousand international hunters. Basically funding in some parts of Africa

1110
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: and other parts of the country. Basically are other parts

1111
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 1: of the world funding conservation, you know, basically international money

1112
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: flowing in for conservation that is supporting really good work.

1113
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 1: My my worry is is that just doesn't seem sustainable

1114
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 1: and it's not if if we had to start today,

1115
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 1: that's not the way we would set it up in

1116
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 1: many of these countries. We would say, hey, take our model,

1117
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: this is the way we do it now. I understand

1118
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 1: that there are different economic and social factors and you know,

1119
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 1: social political factors. I mean, there's there's a million different

1120
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 1: things that wouldn't allow us if we started today to

1121
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 1: apply our North American model the wildlife conservation to say

1122
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: South Africa or Namibia or something like that. But Um,

1123
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 1: something I've thought of and, like I said, discussed critically

1124
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 1: with these guys, is we this this this idea that

1125
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 1: international funding is really driving conservation work on the ground

1126
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 1: in an entirely different continent. Um is worrisome and maybe

1127
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: at some point not as sustainable as we we wanted

1128
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 1: to be. You thought about that? Is that something that

1129
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 1: you guys talk about at all? Yeah? I mean, I

1130
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: think it's constantly discussed too, is you know, how do

1131
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 1: they diversify, you know, and have other streams you know,

1132
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 1: I mean like you see her right now at the

1133
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 1: pinch point from just having travel shut down. That's just crippling. Um.

1134
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 1: It's just like having that you know, your your eggs

1135
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 1: in one basket. UM. But I've yet to see any

1136
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 1: proposal for replacement on you know, that model of of

1137
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 1: having the Hunter. I mean you see the other side

1138
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 1: talk about doing photo tourism, you know, photo safaris in

1139
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 1: its place. Um. Those are those are a great and

1140
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 1: well and and doable on certain land like some of

1141
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 1: the national parks, but not out in the bush, not

1142
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 1: when you get really rural. I mean, the folks that

1143
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: are going out there, are the folks that are are

1144
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 1: looking for adventure, are willing to pay you know, top

1145
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 1: dollar you know what what what's like a mortgage on

1146
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: their home for for a lot of folks, Um, in

1147
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 1: order to you know, sleep on the ground, to get

1148
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 1: bit by some of the biggest bugs on the plant. UM.

1149
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 1: I don't don't know what else is in place to

1150
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 1: replace that. UM. And I don't know that that that

1151
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: it's you know, not not sustainable. Um, you know, I'd

1152
01:04:56,240 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 1: still see the same folks um with their consett coming

1153
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,640
Speaker 1: over to the US to sell their hunts. Still telling

1154
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 1: folks you know after a couple of days, you know,

1155
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: say at our convention that they're sold out and fully booked.

1156
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 1: Um when when when when businesses open and well you

1157
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 1: know they're doing well. Um. But yeah, of course it's

1158
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 1: always you know, anytime something is there's only one means

1159
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 1: of revenue, you know, for for for somebody. I mean

1160
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 1: you've got to look at how to diversify. I mean

1161
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 1: it's the same thing with you know, the model for

1162
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:30,919
Speaker 1: endng O is all focused on you know, raising money

1163
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 1: off of banquets. You know, take that away. We're all

1164
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,720
Speaker 1: you know, experiencing that. Now you know, what are the

1165
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 1: ways are there to diversify? Yeah? No, I mean if

1166
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 1: you talk about sustainability, especially if economically boy covid has

1167
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: put us all in that mindset like how do we

1168
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: have to adapt now that we don't have what we've

1169
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 1: relied upon. But it's also it's it's something too that

1170
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: we've talked about forever. Right, That's another thing you probably

1171
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 1: go and get drunk at like DSc or shot show

1172
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 1: or s c I with your friends you're talking about that,

1173
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 1: They're like, hey, like, this isn't the model that's gonna

1174
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 1: last forever. I've seem like, is it? Like Andy mcken, like,

1175
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 1: you know, right about it, and he's got great points,

1176
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 1: but we'd always put it on the back burners, like yeah,

1177
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 1: we'll get to that after we get through our banquet

1178
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:14,920
Speaker 1: season this year, you know, and then next thing you know,

1179
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 1: it's the banquet season again. But now I mean looking

1180
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 1: for real solutions, right yeah, yeah, I mean we've talked

1181
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: to folks at n WTF recently. I mean, anybody that

1182
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 1: had a real strong and then and that is the

1183
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 1: core of UM, the conservation space and how we gained

1184
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 1: members and how we get funding, and that is you know, listen,

1185
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 1: I I attended some stuff on the Zoom Wild Sheep

1186
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 1: Convention and it was that it was okay, but it

1187
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 1: wasn't nearly as cool as being in you know, in

1188
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 1: reno UM and going to the less than one banquet

1189
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:52,919
Speaker 1: or being in at Shao or being at the SCI

1190
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 1: convention or whatever it might be. No, I know, I mean,

1191
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 1: we all missed that and we're gonna want it back.

1192
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 1: But like cheap week. I mean incredible zoom standards, right,

1193
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 1: I mean, nothing's going to replace it. And of course,

1194
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 1: like I don't want to speak for cheap in any way,

1195
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 1: but I'm sure that you know they understand in person

1196
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 1: is as good as it comes. But they did that,

1197
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 1: did it as good a job as you possibly can do,

1198
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 1: um in the absence of in person. But just just

1199
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 1: missing it, like we're joking about when we got on

1200
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 1: about you know, not having the crud right now shot

1201
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 1: show um, Yeah, yeah, I don't miss the shot show

1202
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: flew everybody getting And I now that we're in a pandemic,

1203
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 1: I think back at how PR companies just to hand

1204
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 1: out little like sick bags with vitamin C backets and

1205
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: bottles of water, and I think, man, yeah, at the

1206
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 1: moment in time where we can make fun of each

1207
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 1: other for passing along viruses, maybe has gone. Yeah we

1208
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 1: could make light of passing viruses to each other willingly

1209
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas? Is it that might be gone, that

1210
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 1: sensibility might have died. You're gonna have to put those

1211
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 1: joke books away for a little bit, Yeah, just for

1212
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 1: a little bit, well to get about this eventually, but yeah,

1213
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:06,960
Speaker 1: as we do everything, yeah, yeah, I appreciate your your

1214
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:10,240
Speaker 1: comment there about sustainability and what it does, because I

1215
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:13,320
Speaker 1: think that's really what I'm just want. I want folks

1216
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 1: who don't really understand trophy hunting to start having this

1217
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 1: dualistic or you know, like look at this because it

1218
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 1: isn't perfect, but it is what we have and it

1219
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 1: is working. I mean, if you look at the numbers,

1220
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:27,880
Speaker 1: and again I don't have this in front of you,

1221
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 1: but I know this to be true. If you look

1222
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 1: at the numbers of wild wildlife in Africa, planes Game,

1223
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: the Big Five, all the things we talked about, you

1224
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:42,120
Speaker 1: look at the numbers of wildlife pre concession. At some

1225
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 1: point in the seventies, I think they started concessions and

1226
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 1: concessions correct if I'm wrong, But concessions are just a

1227
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 1: bunch of properties getting together saying we're gonna put a

1228
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 1: fence up around the outside of all our properties, or

1229
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:55,599
Speaker 1: we're gonna come together and get sort of wildlife that way.

1230
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 1: The number of the popular animal populations prior to concessions

1231
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 1: and after concessions were popularized is ridiculous. It's like five x.

1232
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 1: I mean, right now, Namibia has the biggest population of

1233
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:12,640
Speaker 1: animals that they've had in a hundred years. It's like

1234
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 1: it's just it's the science again, it's it's the head count.

1235
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:18,240
Speaker 1: I mean, they're just losing their minds over and not

1236
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 1: being able to manage their own their own wildlife. Yeah,

1237
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 1: and that's you know, so it's it's such a different

1238
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:29,480
Speaker 1: we get wrapped up in really how different it is, um,

1239
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,600
Speaker 1: how different it is than what we do here. But

1240
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 1: it is. I mean they're there's I've hunted in Africa. Um,

1241
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:40,600
Speaker 1: it feels a lot like Texas and where I was

1242
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 1: at least in Namibia. Um. And like I said, it's

1243
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 1: a big place. So we're not gonna generalize. But that's

1244
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 1: the only thing I left out too, is like I mean,

1245
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 1: if you look at the like the voices to the

1246
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 1: folks that live in Africa, I mean they're asking for

1247
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, the international hunting to be kept in place,

1248
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 1: to be supported, to allow it to go over because

1249
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:03,839
Speaker 1: it's their resources. It's how they want to manage it.

1250
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 1: So again, I mean I would I would look at

1251
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 1: what they're asking for. You know, they're not asking for

1252
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:11,559
Speaker 1: other alternatives to it. That's true. Yeah. No, my dad

1253
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,320
Speaker 1: hunted there recently and he called me after and said

1254
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:18,160
Speaker 1: you know, his guide and pH over there were so

1255
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 1: invested in the business of hunting, and so and and

1256
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:24,639
Speaker 1: and we're so passionate about what it brought to their

1257
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 1: lives that you just can't ignore it. You can't ignore it,

1258
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 1: you know, as much as I even even personally sometimes

1259
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:35,440
Speaker 1: like that's not really my thing. You can't ignore the realities.

1260
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 1: And so I want folks that listen to this podcast

1261
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: if you're whether you're you've thought about this critically or

1262
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: you haven't, to understand that it is complex. Um. But

1263
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 1: when in my opinion, and you know, I definitely want

1264
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:50,559
Speaker 1: to hear kind of how you boil it down your

1265
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 1: own head, Ben, But in my opinion, it is how

1266
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 1: I've we've tried to set it up here, which is

1267
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 1: it's working, it's viable, it's supported by science and data.

1268
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:02,639
Speaker 1: But we have to start looking at how to make

1269
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:06,599
Speaker 1: it sustainable because it is so varied from the model

1270
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 1: that we have in this country. And so that's that's

1271
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 1: where my head goes. But again, all yeah, I do

1272
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 1: start reading a little I U. C. In literature, quickly

1273
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 1: find yourself pretty passionate about you know what you guys

1274
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 1: do you know, I'm also thinking of definitely the business

1275
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:25,800
Speaker 1: standpoint with like the concession owners over there. I mean

1276
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:28,360
Speaker 1: it's taken a lot of years in like trial and

1277
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 1: error for them to get some of these businesses stood

1278
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:34,439
Speaker 1: up to be something you know that's actually providing the

1279
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 1: conservation benefits and being sustainable. UM. They had to make

1280
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:40,040
Speaker 1: a hard choice on their land about how they were

1281
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 1: going to be able to you know feed themselves UM.

1282
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:45,519
Speaker 1: And a lot of folks, you know, whether it's over

1283
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:48,760
Speaker 1: in the Maybea or Zambia started off trying to raise

1284
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:52,439
Speaker 1: cattle UM and it wasn't feasible on some of the land. UM.

1285
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:54,320
Speaker 1: So they found you know, it was easier for them

1286
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:57,720
Speaker 1: to be able to raise you know UM different you

1287
01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:01,200
Speaker 1: know game species UM, and worked on that, set up

1288
01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 1: a business, put in the hard work, they've invested in it,

1289
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:06,400
Speaker 1: and they want to you know, keep that model going

1290
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 1: because it's it's it's what they've based on the livelihoods

1291
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 1: off of UM. So if if they're following the rules

1292
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 1: and it's following what the I U N Statement is,

1293
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 1: I don't see why we would have any place to

1294
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:20,840
Speaker 1: you know, interfere with that. Yeah, that's kind of where

1295
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 1: I land right now. You know, if somebody comes up,

1296
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:25,800
Speaker 1: somebody walks in the door with you know, a full,

1297
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:29,479
Speaker 1: fully thought out photosafari model. I mean I laughed, because

1298
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 1: it's just it's not gonna happen that that matches the

1299
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:38,920
Speaker 1: funding and the flexibility of right now, what is trophy hunting? Essentially,

1300
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 1: this is what we'll call it. UM, bring it, and

1301
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 1: we're running through Dillis Row and Shane Mahoney and everybody

1302
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 1: at the i u c N see what they have

1303
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:49,840
Speaker 1: to say about it. UM, let them be like you said,

1304
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 1: let them call balls and strikes right now there, they're

1305
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:56,560
Speaker 1: pretty firm on this. UM, it'll be a nice scientific

1306
01:12:56,600 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 1: shark tank episode. UM. I don't want to get too

1307
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 1: far going here without really talking about you and I

1308
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 1: talked about this, UM, and I've talked about this with

1309
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 1: Brian Lyn from Supports to Alliance on the show a

1310
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 1: few times when we if we return a minute to

1311
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 1: the California sent a bill to fifty two and and

1312
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:21,639
Speaker 1: really this this goes along many other battles within the

1313
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:26,280
Speaker 1: you know, the legal world, legislative world. We saw it

1314
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:30,879
Speaker 1: with the Greater Yelstone ecosystem, Grizzly bear hunt, Wyoming. UM,

1315
01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:33,760
Speaker 1: We've seen in other places talk about how UM a

1316
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:36,720
Speaker 1: group like h s U s WHU made society the

1317
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 1: United States works UM in setting legal precedents with bills

1318
01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 1: like SP two fifty two, UM to kind of you

1319
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 1: to work at a slow grind at hunting rights or

1320
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 1: hunting you know, privileges. However, we'll say but that there

1321
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 1: there there has been a stated and then and sometimes

1322
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 1: underlying strategy to that right. UM. So so just humane

1323
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:10,679
Speaker 1: society's general activity in the courts on on predator issues.

1324
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 1: I mean it's basically seeing you know, e s a

1325
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 1: as a place where you know, all species should permanently

1326
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 1: be housed, UM, and using the courts to ensure that

1327
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 1: that's the way it is, rather than seeing the es

1328
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:30,480
Speaker 1: as you know, a law that's there too, UM resuscitate

1329
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:34,479
Speaker 1: and bring back species that are that are in tough spots.

1330
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:38,360
Speaker 1: So you know, like the ultimate goal for say, wolves

1331
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:41,880
Speaker 1: is to have them stay on that list in perpetuity

1332
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 1: with federal management in place rather than the states managing. UM.

1333
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:49,240
Speaker 1: You'd see that as well with bears and you know,

1334
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:52,839
Speaker 1: different populations. I mean that's another pieces, you know, breaking

1335
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:56,920
Speaker 1: it into different populations and you know, saying that there's

1336
01:14:56,960 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 1: no longer a species in this portion of range country three. Um,

1337
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:04,479
Speaker 1: so they must be you know, on the brink, and

1338
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 1: it needs to be shut down across the lower forty. Um.

1339
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 1: That's the sort of fight that we see humane society

1340
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:17,640
Speaker 1: bringing across you know, of course, across the country. Well,

1341
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:19,559
Speaker 1: where do we go from here? Now that we kind

1342
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:22,639
Speaker 1: of there's the article in you guys website about kind

1343
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:27,720
Speaker 1: of the digital the the growing digital fight on legislation

1344
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 1: like this, how do you you know, because how do

1345
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 1: you handicap what happened in California's We haven't talked about it.

1346
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:34,759
Speaker 1: We had I probably told you had this great idea

1347
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:38,120
Speaker 1: to buy a billboard and downtown at least, and I

1348
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:41,000
Speaker 1: was like, I was like shedding a tears, Like this

1349
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 1: beautiful idea is never gonna come to to act. But

1350
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:45,920
Speaker 1: I mean obviously there's gonna be an opportunity of yeah,

1351
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:51,160
Speaker 1: of course, but uh yeah, I was. I was shocked,

1352
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:53,120
Speaker 1: you know, just by how quickly it happened. I mean,

1353
01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 1: the change dot org petition, um folks on it. I

1354
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:01,479
Speaker 1: think that that made made a huge prints there for

1355
01:16:01,479 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 1: for the bill being pulled. I think a number of

1356
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:07,719
Speaker 1: factors are attributed to it. I think Governor Newsome's probably

1357
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:11,800
Speaker 1: primarily focused on recall and all those things, but I

1358
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 1: think it makes a big difference. I mean, that's a

1359
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:15,720
Speaker 1: big thing that I've really focused on since coming over

1360
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 1: to s C, I is, you know, standing up our

1361
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:21,719
Speaker 1: our grassroots abilities. Also, you know, the chance to give

1362
01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: UM hunters of voice. I mean, we use our own

1363
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 1: platform called the Hunter Action Advocacy Center UM, you know,

1364
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:32,120
Speaker 1: where where we'll engage our members to speak up when

1365
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:34,719
Speaker 1: ween aer and introduced to something bad, and get folks

1366
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:37,120
Speaker 1: educated and not give folks, you know, a free pass,

1367
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 1: or just make damn sure that every legislator placing the

1368
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:46,320
Speaker 1: vote knows what they're actually voting for UM. And I

1369
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:48,559
Speaker 1: think you know, you know, over the last year, so

1370
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:51,400
Speaker 1: especially with folk Fuel more focused on you know, their

1371
01:16:51,479 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 1: digital tool kit, we've seen all the different NGOs really

1372
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:58,280
Speaker 1: stand up that same sort of presence, which is awesome.

1373
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:01,919
Speaker 1: And that's like right now we're looking at a proposed

1374
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:05,080
Speaker 1: comment period on these cottonwood cases, which is you know,

1375
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:12,640
Speaker 1: basically like redundant process in place for making forest management

1376
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:15,320
Speaker 1: decisions to the point where all the resources are going

1377
01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:18,439
Speaker 1: to it and forests are being managed and wildfires and

1378
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 1: sue and you know, um infections and everything. UM. So

1379
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:27,360
Speaker 1: we're we're doing a comment period there on a on

1380
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:30,320
Speaker 1: a rule to streamline it UM and we've gotten you know,

1381
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:33,559
Speaker 1: eleven hundred of our members so far to send comments

1382
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 1: directly to you know, Fish and Wildlife Service. We're working

1383
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:39,200
Speaker 1: with the broader coalition with all of our friends, whether

1384
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 1: it's you know, Rockingnut and elk or or Sheep or

1385
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:46,000
Speaker 1: or or any of the other groups who also have

1386
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:47,800
Speaker 1: their own systems in place, and they're also doing it

1387
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: that same way. So you add on that chorus of

1388
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:53,439
Speaker 1: folks speaking up and we're not really looking like the

1389
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:56,640
Speaker 1: minority on these issues anymore, but rather, you know, a

1390
01:17:56,640 --> 01:17:59,519
Speaker 1: big majority. So yeah, I mean, as soon as I

1391
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:03,000
Speaker 1: heard it, you know, I, like I said, I was disappointed.

1392
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:04,920
Speaker 1: I was so happy with my idea, so proud of

1393
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 1: myself for the billboard that I was going to create.

1394
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:11,000
Speaker 1: It was a little bit sad at first, I'm like,

1395
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:15,120
Speaker 1: and then I started to think, how did we how

1396
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:17,400
Speaker 1: do we handicap this? How is it possible to handicap

1397
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:19,920
Speaker 1: what really went into this decision? Because I called Cenator

1398
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:22,720
Speaker 1: Winner's office and talked to an intern and she just

1399
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:25,320
Speaker 1: read me the statement, which was, you know, based on

1400
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:28,759
Speaker 1: the urgent COVID nineteen concerns. And I asked her, I said,

1401
01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 1: I know you're an intern, but I still have to

1402
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:35,000
Speaker 1: ask you this question. Has COVID nineteen become more urgent

1403
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:39,800
Speaker 1: in the last ten days or however however long it

1404
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 1: has been since this was introduced? And so I was

1405
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:46,280
Speaker 1: I'm assuming, you know, I don't know how to put

1406
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:48,559
Speaker 1: this as percentage, but there's a large percentage that was

1407
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 1: was the outreach and outcry and all the things that

1408
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:57,840
Speaker 1: happened around um, social media and across the internet about this.

1409
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:02,960
Speaker 1: And then there was idea in California that the threshold

1410
01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 1: for dealing with that kind of backlash it's not real high.

1411
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:09,320
Speaker 1: You know, at this point, there's so many other things

1412
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:12,240
Speaker 1: to deal with. So I imagine that that there's a

1413
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:15,920
Speaker 1: there's some mix to that. But as you're just talking about,

1414
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:19,040
Speaker 1: we're looking at a future where there's a real power

1415
01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 1: in the hunting community. There's a real power in the

1416
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:25,680
Speaker 1: groups like yours and groups like RMYF and and b

1417
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:29,360
Speaker 1: h A like we can make a real impact here.

1418
01:19:29,400 --> 01:19:32,599
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that I leave this whole sp

1419
01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:36,400
Speaker 1: two two situations. The saga if it as you were

1420
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 1: with that we can make if we all decide we

1421
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:42,439
Speaker 1: don't this, this is bullshit, We're not going to have it. Um,

1422
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 1: we can we can make change. You know, we can

1423
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:50,760
Speaker 1: push back on some of this legislation. Absolutely, I mean

1424
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 1: a lot goes into you know, Senator we are making

1425
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:57,960
Speaker 1: his final decision. But you can't have the absence of

1426
01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:02,599
Speaker 1: just the people, you know speaking up. Um, that's just

1427
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 1: a critical piece that can't be missing. Because I mean,

1428
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 1: also just don't be fooled that, you know, the other side,

1429
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:10,679
Speaker 1: the folks that want the bears to be banned, they

1430
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:13,000
Speaker 1: also have you know, the ability to flip a switch

1431
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:15,760
Speaker 1: and have people come in in. Um, they've been doing

1432
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 1: it longer than than I think hunters have. Um, we're

1433
01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:22,040
Speaker 1: still playing catch up in that regard. I mean, I

1434
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:23,479
Speaker 1: don't have all the details in front of me, but

1435
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:26,840
Speaker 1: I remember looking at I think there was there was

1436
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:29,920
Speaker 1: some sort of rule process going through Fish and Wildlife

1437
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:36,120
Speaker 1: on polar bears, and that got caught up in like TikTok,

1438
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:39,479
Speaker 1: which suddenly drove a campaign. But they got two million

1439
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:42,720
Speaker 1: plus comments in on this polar bear issue. I mean,

1440
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:48,400
Speaker 1: that's just that's a lot more than right. I mean,

1441
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:51,240
Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot going on there that I mean,

1442
01:20:51,479 --> 01:20:54,479
Speaker 1: they have the ability to turn it on. So again,

1443
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:57,040
Speaker 1: a lot goes into what happened. Maybe it was COVID

1444
01:20:57,080 --> 01:20:59,800
Speaker 1: became more important for today's doubt it, but maybe there was.

1445
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 1: But you can't have the absence of those plus folks

1446
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:06,800
Speaker 1: speaking up and letting you know that it's not an unchecked,

1447
01:21:06,840 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 1: one sided decision. Yeah, you're And that's what we've really

1448
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:15,519
Speaker 1: seen in the past. There's always been this, like I said,

1449
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:18,760
Speaker 1: populous high ground where the louder voice and the more

1450
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 1: activism has always fallen on folks who are in the

1451
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 1: animal rights community or the anti hunting community. That's just

1452
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:31,280
Speaker 1: been traditionally how it's gone. They've been more dedicated, smarter, UM,

1453
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 1: not only with legislation, but how they gained attention to

1454
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:38,559
Speaker 1: these issues. And we've kind of hunting community has been

1455
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:41,840
Speaker 1: very reactionary throughout time. UM, and I think we're still

1456
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:45,960
Speaker 1: reactionary in many ways, UM, and so we I had

1457
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:50,400
Speaker 1: guys from Sports's Alliance texting me. Brian Lynde was texting me, UM,

1458
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:54,360
Speaker 1: a bunch of anti trapping legislation that's floating around, UM

1459
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:58,120
Speaker 1: in places like New Mexico. So you know, those things

1460
01:21:58,160 --> 01:22:01,120
Speaker 1: happen in a vacuum, and if we're if if we're

1461
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:03,400
Speaker 1: not paying attention to them, Whether or not you believe

1462
01:22:03,439 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 1: in guard the gate or the celebrating slope fallacy, it

1463
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:09,360
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter, um, just just having a place like

1464
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:13,120
Speaker 1: SEI or UM and these other groups we've mentioned to

1465
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:15,120
Speaker 1: go and learn about these things as important as hell.

1466
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:20,639
Speaker 1: So go sign up, everybody. Do you do it now?

1467
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:23,720
Speaker 1: Party club dot org? What are you waiting for? What

1468
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:27,240
Speaker 1: are you waiting for? Do you? Um? I guess we

1469
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 1: could close by like a little bit more of a

1470
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:34,719
Speaker 1: lighthearted topic or something that to get people. Do you um?

1471
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:37,719
Speaker 1: Have you ever traveled? You travel internationally? Hunted in Africa?

1472
01:22:38,360 --> 01:22:41,559
Speaker 1: Hunted up places that you can, you know, tell personal stories.

1473
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:46,840
Speaker 1: I have not hunted in Africa yet. Um. That was

1474
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:54,000
Speaker 1: meant to happen in so I probably wanted to talk

1475
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:55,680
Speaker 1: about something a little bit brighter right now then. But

1476
01:22:55,680 --> 01:23:00,320
Speaker 1: I appreciate that I screwed it. That was totally I'm sorry.

1477
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:03,360
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I thought I told you this offline. I

1478
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:08,080
Speaker 1: brought up a bad subject. The one hunt that I

1479
01:23:08,200 --> 01:23:09,920
Speaker 1: bought a s C. I was actually at the d

1480
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:13,840
Speaker 1: c chapter banquet was dove hunt in Argentina that I

1481
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:15,799
Speaker 1: took as a cast and blast for a golden Dorado

1482
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 1: and and dove. UM. So that was an awesome trip.

1483
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:21,840
Speaker 1: That was my my one international trip. I grew up

1484
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:25,559
Speaker 1: living in Brazil and Chile. No real hunting in Brazil,

1485
01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:29,240
Speaker 1: none really at all. UM and Chili, I just I

1486
01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:31,160
Speaker 1: didn't have I didn't do when I was when I

1487
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:33,640
Speaker 1: was a kid down there. But I've done a lot

1488
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:38,640
Speaker 1: of travel around the States. UM love waterfowl. UMM has

1489
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:40,240
Speaker 1: a place out of the Eastern Shore. So I get

1490
01:23:40,280 --> 01:23:42,800
Speaker 1: out there a bunch and make a point, you know,

1491
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:47,320
Speaker 1: after election season, UM to get down to Louisiana and

1492
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:50,680
Speaker 1: go out for respects, nothing but love for him. And

1493
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:53,360
Speaker 1: I've got a bunch of family in Texas, so we'll

1494
01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 1: get for for for white tail and for pigs out

1495
01:23:56,600 --> 01:24:00,639
Speaker 1: that way. Argentina is one of the places I've not been,

1496
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:04,599
Speaker 1: but I was just had a little get together with

1497
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:08,719
Speaker 1: U editor of Peterson Sonny Mike Scoby, I guess former

1498
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:11,599
Speaker 1: editor now but he still works for that company. And

1499
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 1: a guy who've had on this show before Duchon. It's

1500
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:17,479
Speaker 1: Metana who's a photographer and and they've been to Argentina

1501
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:21,160
Speaker 1: a bunch, and hearing them talk about it, he's just

1502
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:24,920
Speaker 1: given me a full drive to get down there. It's awesome.

1503
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:29,280
Speaker 1: I just want to see that country. Yeah, I love it. Um.

1504
01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:32,960
Speaker 1: I really loved getting out on the on the Parana

1505
01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:36,640
Speaker 1: River for Golden Dorado. That was. I went down for

1506
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:38,720
Speaker 1: the Dove, but you know, I'd go back for the

1507
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:42,719
Speaker 1: Dorado big time. That was. It's an awesome fish, tough mouth,

1508
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:48,400
Speaker 1: spicer hook out, you know, it's yeah, just gorgeous. Um.

1509
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:50,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, great people down there, and the foods are

1510
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 1: also incredible. I mean they've they've mastered the flame, They've

1511
01:24:54,360 --> 01:24:58,280
Speaker 1: got the good beef. Oh man. Yeah. Dushan he lives

1512
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:00,720
Speaker 1: across the river from He does in a pada every year,

1513
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:03,479
Speaker 1: which is a traditional way to think, and he cooks

1514
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:05,960
Speaker 1: up a goat. The slaughters and cooks up a goat

1515
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:10,640
Speaker 1: and it's just it's something I look forward to every year. Um,

1516
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:13,760
Speaker 1: just because he brings that Argentinian culture. He's been down

1517
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:16,599
Speaker 1: there so many times. He's bringing it to Montana, which

1518
01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:18,600
Speaker 1: I felt was rare when I met him and we

1519
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:22,200
Speaker 1: talked about it, and um, you know that's man. Now,

1520
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 1: this is it was supposed to be uplifting, but this

1521
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:27,400
Speaker 1: is now depressing. But we can't go this is now

1522
01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:30,919
Speaker 1: un depressed. I can't go any of these cool places.

1523
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 1: Probably not one I've been, dude, I've been salivating over.

1524
01:25:36,560 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 1: I've been putting together the THHC studio at my house

1525
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:41,840
Speaker 1: and I've been hanging up a bunch of pictures that

1526
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:43,599
Speaker 1: I really like from things that have done in the past,

1527
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:46,479
Speaker 1: and man, a lot of them are from New Zealand.

1528
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 1: Place like New Zealand and what do you do in

1529
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:52,519
Speaker 1: New Zealand. Well, I mean I've been there. I think

1530
01:25:52,560 --> 01:25:55,320
Speaker 1: I've been there three or four times. But we gave

1531
01:25:55,360 --> 01:25:57,760
Speaker 1: away a New Zealand hunt first, like, gave away a

1532
01:25:57,760 --> 01:25:59,439
Speaker 1: New Zealand hunt with me that we were supposed to

1533
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:03,400
Speaker 1: go on in. It got canceled and I haven't thought

1534
01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:06,599
Speaker 1: much about because I just assume we're gonna just pick

1535
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:09,920
Speaker 1: it up whenever we're allowed to go. Um. So that's

1536
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:12,800
Speaker 1: kind of another depressing note. But I've I've gone over

1537
01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 1: there and done public land tar Shammy. Um yeah, I've

1538
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:21,040
Speaker 1: done helicopter fly ins for for Shammy on in just

1539
01:26:21,160 --> 01:26:23,800
Speaker 1: some of the craziest places on the coast that you

1540
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:28,240
Speaker 1: can ever imagine have you followed our our pieces on

1541
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:31,719
Speaker 1: a tar wars what's going on there? I have, In fact,

1542
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:34,040
Speaker 1: I owe that the listeners of this program a little

1543
01:26:34,120 --> 01:26:37,840
Speaker 1: update on that because we've talked about UM last year,

1544
01:26:37,880 --> 01:26:40,560
Speaker 1: we talked about just not wanting to jump into advocacy

1545
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:43,200
Speaker 1: on that because I just don't understand it. Um. I

1546
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:47,200
Speaker 1: understand the general principles at play, but I just you know,

1547
01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:51,519
Speaker 1: didn't really get too deep into um, the legislation that

1548
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:53,800
Speaker 1: was going on last year and the calling that's been

1549
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:55,800
Speaker 1: going on. I mean, I've been to places in New

1550
01:26:55,920 --> 01:26:58,960
Speaker 1: Zealand where the guides will tell you or locals will

1551
01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:00,680
Speaker 1: tell you there used to be her up on that

1552
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:04,760
Speaker 1: mountain they shot in the helicopter for last year. So

1553
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:07,800
Speaker 1: I've experienced it personally where places I've been and gone

1554
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:10,360
Speaker 1: back to now just don't have animals anymore because they've

1555
01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:15,479
Speaker 1: been aerial gunned to extinction in certain pockets over there.

1556
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:18,840
Speaker 1: So was update people on on tar wars as you

1557
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:23,360
Speaker 1: call Yeah, I mean, like you said, they cranked up there.

1558
01:27:24,280 --> 01:27:27,960
Speaker 1: I guess they call it eradication plan. Um. They you

1559
01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:34,000
Speaker 1: know it was Eugenie Stage was the was the Green Party. Um,

1560
01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:37,120
Speaker 1: she's from the Green Party, but they had a but

1561
01:27:37,200 --> 01:27:40,240
Speaker 1: a coalition government, so even though Labor was in charge there,

1562
01:27:40,640 --> 01:27:44,360
Speaker 1: she was a Green in charge of their Department of Conservation.

1563
01:27:45,160 --> 01:27:49,160
Speaker 1: Her past life was it was really like a lobbyist

1564
01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:55,280
Speaker 1: or you know, UM policy employee for their Remane Society

1565
01:27:55,320 --> 01:27:58,839
Speaker 1: over New Zealand. She's been on the record for twenty

1566
01:27:58,840 --> 01:28:02,160
Speaker 1: plus years saying her plan was to bring New Zealand

1567
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:04,840
Speaker 1: back to how it was before man ever set foot there,

1568
01:28:04,960 --> 01:28:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, basically give rid of people and any species

1569
01:28:08,120 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 1: that was introduced, you know, any mammal really, I mean

1570
01:28:11,040 --> 01:28:13,599
Speaker 1: that's what all was introduced. UM. So she had been

1571
01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:16,080
Speaker 1: you know, I had been on the record there. So

1572
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:20,439
Speaker 1: in the the twilight of her her tenure UM she

1573
01:28:20,479 --> 01:28:24,040
Speaker 1: went full bore on eradicating, you know, really ratcheting up

1574
01:28:24,640 --> 01:28:30,160
Speaker 1: UM aerial hunting, you know, management of UM of bulls. UM.

1575
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:33,160
Speaker 1: So they got those numbers in place, they didn't UM,

1576
01:28:33,479 --> 01:28:36,120
Speaker 1: they didn't confer at all with the sportsmans community, even

1577
01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:39,679
Speaker 1: though that was UM you know in their management plan

1578
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:43,000
Speaker 1: that there had to be consultation. They ended up putting

1579
01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:47,479
Speaker 1: a hold on it. UM took a pause, consulted, basically

1580
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:50,439
Speaker 1: didn't take any recommendations from Sportsmen ended up going back

1581
01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:54,400
Speaker 1: out and doing some more hours. M Fortunately UM an

1582
01:28:54,439 --> 01:28:58,200
Speaker 1: election took place there, you know, in September early October,

1583
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:02,320
Speaker 1: where Labor had a sweeping victory. UM didn't need to

1584
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:06,400
Speaker 1: rely on a coalition government anymore, so no longer had

1585
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:09,479
Speaker 1: a place for Eugenie Sage. UM. So now Labor is

1586
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:13,559
Speaker 1: in place UM at d o C. There's been a

1587
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:16,960
Speaker 1: lot of quiet silence around the issue. UM those high

1588
01:29:17,080 --> 01:29:20,880
Speaker 1: levels of of management hours aren't occurring anymore right now,

1589
01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:23,760
Speaker 1: so it's given a breath of fresh air. I know

1590
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:26,400
Speaker 1: all of our our partners and our chapter over in

1591
01:29:26,479 --> 01:29:30,880
Speaker 1: New Zealand very optimistic, UM, you know, whereas they really

1592
01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:35,679
Speaker 1: felt silenced, shut out of the process and defeated rightfully,

1593
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:39,120
Speaker 1: so at least now or you know, looking forward to

1594
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:42,200
Speaker 1: having more conversations and putting their side across. And the

1595
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:45,360
Speaker 1: whole time this was happening from their Department of Conservation,

1596
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister and everybody UM from Labor was was

1597
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:52,080
Speaker 1: quiet on it, knowing not to step into the phrase.

1598
01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:57,400
Speaker 1: So it was really that Green Party push me. It's

1599
01:29:57,439 --> 01:30:01,720
Speaker 1: like a paradox, it's one of the ultimate have just

1600
01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:05,000
Speaker 1: been one big paradox in and of itself. But when

1601
01:30:05,040 --> 01:30:08,920
Speaker 1: I think of the green environmentalist party aerial gunning animals,

1602
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:13,280
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm like, I don't know, guys, that doesn't

1603
01:30:13,280 --> 01:30:18,080
Speaker 1: seem very environmentally sound to me. I've always wondered about

1604
01:30:18,120 --> 01:30:20,559
Speaker 1: even when I've been down there, I've always wondered out loud,

1605
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:22,360
Speaker 1: and I always feel like it's kind of not my

1606
01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:25,920
Speaker 1: place too to have a real intense opinion other than

1607
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:28,920
Speaker 1: I really like going over there, and I really enjoy

1608
01:30:29,000 --> 01:30:33,200
Speaker 1: those animals in the in those habitats. Um. Why is

1609
01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:36,599
Speaker 1: it a lot of islands, you know, like New Zealand

1610
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:39,920
Speaker 1: and semi close ecosystems. A lot of them have hawaiis

1611
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:44,760
Speaker 1: like this, a lot of introduced non native you could

1612
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:47,080
Speaker 1: call them invasive, depending on how you want to define

1613
01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:51,120
Speaker 1: things species um. And when they proliferate to any to

1614
01:30:51,240 --> 01:30:53,400
Speaker 1: the extent that a tar and a shammy might, and

1615
01:30:53,479 --> 01:30:57,360
Speaker 1: a an economy builds around them and tourism builds around them,

1616
01:30:57,439 --> 01:31:01,439
Speaker 1: why then wouldn't you accept them as as part of

1617
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 1: what we might just say is the modern ecosystem, the

1618
01:31:05,479 --> 01:31:09,439
Speaker 1: human you know, directed ecosystem that now exists there. What

1619
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:12,479
Speaker 1: is the obsession with with going back in time to

1620
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:16,040
Speaker 1: some deterministic point and saying this is how it should

1621
01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:18,439
Speaker 1: be now because it was this way because you know,

1622
01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:22,880
Speaker 1: environments are ever changing. Nature is change. So I just

1623
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:26,639
Speaker 1: I just never understood that. I don't understand how something

1624
01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:30,320
Speaker 1: like that could result in, you know, the mass killing

1625
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:33,240
Speaker 1: and not utilizing by it. It's not like they scoop

1626
01:31:33,320 --> 01:31:34,840
Speaker 1: up these tar and shamy off the top of the

1627
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:36,719
Speaker 1: mountains with a helicopter and take them back and serve

1628
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:39,559
Speaker 1: them to to needing New Zealanders. They leave them away,

1629
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:42,880
Speaker 1: they leave them way. And we talked about this, we

1630
01:31:42,920 --> 01:31:44,439
Speaker 1: talked about this a little bit last week on the

1631
01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:47,960
Speaker 1: show with aphis Um in the United States and and

1632
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:52,720
Speaker 1: how that is, how that works its way into this conversation.

1633
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:56,439
Speaker 1: But I've never have you talked to anybody that allowed

1634
01:31:56,479 --> 01:32:00,080
Speaker 1: you to really understand you know this this nay to

1635
01:32:00,200 --> 01:32:03,160
Speaker 1: visit my guess or or the way that this rolls

1636
01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:06,680
Speaker 1: out because I've seen it in other places. Um yeah,

1637
01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:09,519
Speaker 1: I mean we've seen we've seen it in the in

1638
01:32:09,560 --> 01:32:13,160
Speaker 1: the US with you know, some National park superintendents, you know,

1639
01:32:13,280 --> 01:32:16,360
Speaker 1: wanting to shock the water to take it back to

1640
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:19,720
Speaker 1: where it was. Um, I'll never understand it. I mean,

1641
01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:23,840
Speaker 1: it does seem like a you know, very obvious paradox

1642
01:32:23,920 --> 01:32:27,960
Speaker 1: of wiping out and killing a species. You know, if

1643
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:35,360
Speaker 1: you're in an anti hunting group, it happened. You put

1644
01:32:35,400 --> 01:32:40,559
Speaker 1: it too. It's like this idealized concept of before you

1645
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:44,599
Speaker 1: know anything was introduced, everything was much better. I mean,

1646
01:32:45,160 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 1: I guess they'll they'll point to maybe something that you know,

1647
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:54,920
Speaker 1: the tar like to to consume or eat being wiped

1648
01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:57,560
Speaker 1: out because of it. Um. That's it, right, and that

1649
01:32:57,680 --> 01:33:02,599
Speaker 1: happened with with sheep and goats and in Washington here.

1650
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:04,800
Speaker 1: You know, I guess there's an argument to say, like

1651
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:07,400
Speaker 1: if the presence of a non native species is really

1652
01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:09,600
Speaker 1: impacting a native one, But then you get into like

1653
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:13,120
Speaker 1: what's native and non native? How do we how far

1654
01:33:13,200 --> 01:33:15,439
Speaker 1: do we go back? How do we determine these things?

1655
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:20,960
Speaker 1: It sounds like we're we're talking about immigration, but yeah,

1656
01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:23,599
Speaker 1: it's I mean, there's huge parallels to this, but this

1657
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:26,200
Speaker 1: is one of those. This is this issue is interesting

1658
01:33:26,240 --> 01:33:30,519
Speaker 1: to me. We talked about UM with Pete Munich from

1659
01:33:30,560 --> 01:33:32,880
Speaker 1: the Racking Mound Goodalins. We talked about this last year

1660
01:33:32,920 --> 01:33:34,280
Speaker 1: too on this show a little bit, and it is

1661
01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:37,519
Speaker 1: one of the great paradoxes that tends to happen, but

1662
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:40,240
Speaker 1: it's more intense I think in New Zealand because they

1663
01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:43,559
Speaker 1: they are the aerial gunning is just without it's like

1664
01:33:43,600 --> 01:33:47,040
Speaker 1: almost part of the culture now over there. Um And

1665
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:49,840
Speaker 1: so I'm glad you brought a little bit of shed

1666
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:51,400
Speaker 1: a little bit of light into that. You do you

1667
01:33:51,439 --> 01:33:54,280
Speaker 1: feel like the future there's more fights in the future

1668
01:33:54,400 --> 01:33:56,439
Speaker 1: or do you see it? You know, because of that

1669
01:33:56,479 --> 01:34:01,400
Speaker 1: political defeat, having a little bit more legs to keep

1670
01:34:01,960 --> 01:34:05,320
Speaker 1: to keep the proclivity to aerial gun animals to extinction

1671
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:10,040
Speaker 1: out of the popular I don't think there's another like

1672
01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:13,439
Speaker 1: person that could be in that Minister of d O

1673
01:34:13,520 --> 01:34:17,040
Speaker 1: C position that was as anti tar as Ujimni Sage.

1674
01:34:17,120 --> 01:34:19,760
Speaker 1: So with her being put to the side, I just

1675
01:34:19,800 --> 01:34:22,920
Speaker 1: don't see it as rising to the same priority level.

1676
01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:25,559
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously I could be be proven wrong, but

1677
01:34:26,320 --> 01:34:29,200
Speaker 1: that having her removed from that seat was about as

1678
01:34:29,240 --> 01:34:31,160
Speaker 1: good as it could have been for right now. I mean,

1679
01:34:31,200 --> 01:34:33,400
Speaker 1: and now the work just needs to be done on

1680
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:37,200
Speaker 1: really opening up consultation and making sure that that isn't

1681
01:34:37,240 --> 01:34:40,639
Speaker 1: just you know, thrown to by the wayside again. Yeah, yeah,

1682
01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:42,639
Speaker 1: and it's I mean, I was I'm just looking here

1683
01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:47,960
Speaker 1: I was reading a government document about the encyclopedia of

1684
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:54,080
Speaker 1: New Zealand mammals and it says deliberately introduced animals include wallaby,

1685
01:34:54,479 --> 01:34:59,680
Speaker 1: oh possum, stout or stout, ferret, weasel, eight species of

1686
01:34:59,760 --> 01:35:08,160
Speaker 1: d tar, shammy, rabbit, hair and hedgehog. So, um, that's

1687
01:35:08,160 --> 01:35:11,760
Speaker 1: a lot. And so when when the bulk of your

1688
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:16,599
Speaker 1: the species running around on your island are introduced, when

1689
01:35:16,680 --> 01:35:21,280
Speaker 1: does it change over to being, you know, a largely

1690
01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:25,400
Speaker 1: native environment. I mean, how do you I just to

1691
01:35:25,400 --> 01:35:29,080
Speaker 1: to weigh that out logically is mind boggling to me.

1692
01:35:29,160 --> 01:35:32,439
Speaker 1: It just is. I mean again, at what point are

1693
01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:34,640
Speaker 1: you like putting everybody back on a boat too and

1694
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:38,799
Speaker 1: saying all right, everybody, yeah, you're part of the invasive

1695
01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 1: problem too. Yeah. When we came over, we introduced those animals,

1696
01:35:43,120 --> 01:35:45,519
Speaker 1: so we were the first animal, you know, to be

1697
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:49,120
Speaker 1: able to manipulate environment like that, and thus we did. Yeah.

1698
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:52,519
Speaker 1: And um, but you know, I will tell a brief

1699
01:35:52,560 --> 01:35:55,280
Speaker 1: story about being on a sheep station over on the

1700
01:35:55,280 --> 01:35:59,240
Speaker 1: South Island, New Zealand hunting fallow deer with actually with

1701
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:03,519
Speaker 1: Andrew McKean. You mentioned, um, we were over there hunting

1702
01:36:03,560 --> 01:36:07,080
Speaker 1: this sheep station, and I mean falla deer everywhere. The

1703
01:36:07,080 --> 01:36:11,160
Speaker 1: falla deer rutt is in incredible. They croak like some

1704
01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:15,639
Speaker 1: kind of prehistoric frog the bucks do when they're chasing does.

1705
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:17,760
Speaker 1: And so this is, you know, it's kind of like

1706
01:36:17,800 --> 01:36:20,439
Speaker 1: if you imagine the high desert of Nevada, kind of

1707
01:36:20,560 --> 01:36:23,920
Speaker 1: rocky and arid. And so we're over there chasing these

1708
01:36:25,200 --> 01:36:27,240
Speaker 1: fallow deer. We get a couple of bucks on the ground,

1709
01:36:27,240 --> 01:36:29,840
Speaker 1: and one night we're driving out and we meet this guy,

1710
01:36:30,439 --> 01:36:35,240
Speaker 1: the Rabbit Man. He looks like some sort of Mad

1711
01:36:35,320 --> 01:36:40,040
Speaker 1: Max superhero. He's riding two stroke dirt bike. He's got

1712
01:36:41,760 --> 01:36:45,080
Speaker 1: rabbit for I think he had rabbit fur handle covers.

1713
01:36:45,439 --> 01:36:48,439
Speaker 1: He was wearing a leather jacket and a helmet with

1714
01:36:48,479 --> 01:36:51,760
Speaker 1: a big spotlight on it. And his job was to

1715
01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:56,519
Speaker 1: drive around every night and shoot rabbits because of the

1716
01:36:56,520 --> 01:37:00,120
Speaker 1: the intense overpopulation of rabbits on that sheep stage and

1717
01:37:00,200 --> 01:37:03,719
Speaker 1: across the island. He shot rabbits every night for about

1718
01:37:03,760 --> 01:37:07,000
Speaker 1: eight hours, if I remember this correctly. He would drive

1719
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:10,240
Speaker 1: around with a twenty two and a shotgun and shoot

1720
01:37:10,360 --> 01:37:12,479
Speaker 1: rabbits every night, and then he would go back and

1721
01:37:12,600 --> 01:37:14,800
Speaker 1: log how many rabbits he's shot that night. In a

1722
01:37:14,840 --> 01:37:17,120
Speaker 1: book and he had been doing that for over a decade.

1723
01:37:17,520 --> 01:37:20,400
Speaker 1: And the guy had killed millions of rabbits on this

1724
01:37:20,680 --> 01:37:23,840
Speaker 1: single sheep station. His full time job was to ride

1725
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:28,640
Speaker 1: around at night with a spotlight and shoot rabbits. I

1726
01:37:28,680 --> 01:37:31,000
Speaker 1: mean I did, yet it didn't. And we we got

1727
01:37:31,040 --> 01:37:32,559
Speaker 1: to have dinner with him and talk to him about

1728
01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:35,559
Speaker 1: his life, and it just goes to show you, as

1729
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:38,400
Speaker 1: much as I say, it's just logically confusing what's going

1730
01:37:38,439 --> 01:37:42,719
Speaker 1: on down there. It's just different than we have here.

1731
01:37:43,720 --> 01:37:46,000
Speaker 1: Because if a guy like that can exist, a rabbit

1732
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:52,240
Speaker 1: killing superhero can exist down there, I don't know, uh,

1733
01:37:52,280 --> 01:37:57,519
Speaker 1: if we can really draw a parallel, it's down under man,

1734
01:37:57,520 --> 01:38:00,400
Speaker 1: it's upside down. Yeah, we saw we We talked seriously

1735
01:38:00,400 --> 01:38:02,719
Speaker 1: about doing a documentary for a long time about this guy,

1736
01:38:02,840 --> 01:38:05,559
Speaker 1: and you would be entertained. I hope he's still down

1737
01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:07,639
Speaker 1: there doing It's been some years ago. I hope he's

1738
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:10,479
Speaker 1: down there, still still shooting rabbits every night. Because they

1739
01:38:10,520 --> 01:38:12,680
Speaker 1: had they were telling us stories, or they would put

1740
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:16,599
Speaker 1: up picket fences too, you know, for sheep or whatever.

1741
01:38:16,640 --> 01:38:19,800
Speaker 1: This is a huge sheep station. Station is just a ranch.

1742
01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:24,080
Speaker 1: You know. They put up fences for paddocks for sheep,

1743
01:38:24,240 --> 01:38:27,960
Speaker 1: and the rabbits would literally chew them down within days.

1744
01:38:27,960 --> 01:38:30,280
Speaker 1: There's so many rabbits that they would they would choot

1745
01:38:30,280 --> 01:38:33,840
Speaker 1: an entire fence down with big thick wooden posts, um

1746
01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:37,320
Speaker 1: in days or weeks. And that's how many rabbits they

1747
01:38:37,320 --> 01:38:40,560
Speaker 1: were dealing with. So um. We have a lot of

1748
01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:42,599
Speaker 1: New Zealanders to listen to this show, and they're very

1749
01:38:42,680 --> 01:38:45,880
Speaker 1: vocal and um, I'm sure they'll be excited to hear

1750
01:38:46,320 --> 01:38:48,200
Speaker 1: us talents, some New Zealand stories and shine a light

1751
01:38:48,240 --> 01:38:50,320
Speaker 1: on what they got going down there. I think they're

1752
01:38:50,320 --> 01:38:52,479
Speaker 1: all gonna say, don't let your dream die either, make

1753
01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:56,960
Speaker 1: this movie happen. The rabbit man, Yeah, I will, with

1754
01:38:57,040 --> 01:38:59,439
Speaker 1: a serious face go to the head of SDI and

1755
01:38:59,479 --> 01:39:01,880
Speaker 1: make a pit stressed to help you with don't let

1756
01:39:02,240 --> 01:39:05,800
Speaker 1: don't let this dream die. I will not. I will not. Well,

1757
01:39:05,800 --> 01:39:08,320
Speaker 1: that's a good place to end with that dream, because

1758
01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:10,000
Speaker 1: we were just getting depressed that we can't go to

1759
01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:13,200
Speaker 1: New Zealand, but we can still make a documentary straight.

1760
01:39:13,439 --> 01:39:16,200
Speaker 1: We'll get that media exemption to go down there, get tested,

1761
01:39:16,240 --> 01:39:17,720
Speaker 1: go down there and be real safe and make a

1762
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:22,559
Speaker 1: documentary from the loophole loop that's a real positive place

1763
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:24,879
Speaker 1: to end the COVID loophole to get us to New Zealand.

1764
01:39:24,960 --> 01:39:30,160
Speaker 1: Me you the Rabbitman. It's gonna be a party. I

1765
01:39:30,240 --> 01:39:33,200
Speaker 1: love it. Well, Ben, thanks for doing much, do you man? Um,

1766
01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:35,200
Speaker 1: go and have a little go have a little Ben's

1767
01:39:35,240 --> 01:39:37,040
Speaker 1: Chili Bowl for me next time you're down to d C.

1768
01:39:37,200 --> 01:39:39,160
Speaker 1: If that's still a thing, If you can still do that,

1769
01:39:39,439 --> 01:39:43,360
Speaker 1: can you still? Yeah? All right? You know, I'm driving

1770
01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:45,599
Speaker 1: into the city tonight for dinner and I'll go by

1771
01:39:45,640 --> 01:39:48,360
Speaker 1: Ben's to make sure it's it's still thriving. I'll take

1772
01:39:48,360 --> 01:39:50,240
Speaker 1: a photo and send it over. Yeah. I get worried

1773
01:39:50,240 --> 01:39:52,639
Speaker 1: about stuff like that in times of COVID. I don't

1774
01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:55,160
Speaker 1: want to read some news story that Ben's Chili bowls

1775
01:39:55,200 --> 01:39:58,720
Speaker 1: out of business. Yeah, I mean it's it's taking a

1776
01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:02,160
Speaker 1: hit on a lot of the bars had character, you know. Um,

1777
01:40:02,280 --> 01:40:05,559
Speaker 1: But what can we do? All right? Brother? I really

1778
01:40:05,560 --> 01:40:08,000
Speaker 1: appreciate we're not gonna let that tre dive. The Rabbitman

1779
01:40:08,080 --> 01:40:12,080
Speaker 1: documentary coming to a theater near you. Do. Thanks for

1780
01:40:12,080 --> 01:40:14,400
Speaker 1: probably you and thanks for checking in with us and

1781
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:17,120
Speaker 1: working through the old trophy hunting and everything else. Yep,

1782
01:40:17,360 --> 01:40:19,200
Speaker 1: anytime I appreciate it bad. Thanks for what you do,

1783
01:40:27,439 --> 01:40:30,280
Speaker 1: all right, So that's not what I usually say. That's it.

1784
01:40:30,479 --> 01:40:36,120
Speaker 1: That's all dude, dude, my mind is gone. Phil. Uh.

1785
01:40:36,600 --> 01:40:40,040
Speaker 1: We just went hard in Alaska for three days and

1786
01:40:40,080 --> 01:40:42,920
Speaker 1: I got no no offense to Alaska Airlines, but they

1787
01:40:42,960 --> 01:40:45,560
Speaker 1: sure messed my day up yesterday. I was supposed to

1788
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:48,040
Speaker 1: get home here at about eleven PM and I didn't

1789
01:40:48,040 --> 01:40:52,479
Speaker 1: get home until four in the morning. And it's been

1790
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:58,320
Speaker 1: uh interesting time nonetheless, but hopefully this uh this here

1791
01:40:58,360 --> 01:41:02,760
Speaker 1: podcast was was listening double and apologies if I didn't

1792
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:07,639
Speaker 1: do a good job today, no excuses, but hey, listen,

1793
01:41:07,920 --> 01:41:09,439
Speaker 1: you guys did a great job. There was an email

1794
01:41:09,479 --> 01:41:12,519
Speaker 1: from a guy named Brett Brett are I said, I

1795
01:41:12,520 --> 01:41:17,520
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna read anything, you know, podcasts, theme song related,

1796
01:41:18,640 --> 01:41:21,840
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna read you some of what what Brett wrote.

1797
01:41:22,280 --> 01:41:27,200
Speaker 1: He is entitled the Anthem of Occult Ready for it? Yeah,

1798
01:41:27,840 --> 01:41:30,720
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna sing it, Phil, Okay, Okay, well that's good.

1799
01:41:30,760 --> 01:41:36,120
Speaker 1: Don't ask me to sing it. Good first, okay, working

1800
01:41:36,160 --> 01:41:38,560
Speaker 1: pick and shovel or pen in hand, we congregate and

1801
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:41,360
Speaker 1: now it's children of the land, mindful, focused and living

1802
01:41:41,400 --> 01:41:44,640
Speaker 1: for the search dreaming of a fire with a salty Gilbert.

1803
01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:49,080
Speaker 1: But ain't but ain't coming back till it's cold and late.

1804
01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:54,240
Speaker 1: Taking it slow so we can shoot straight, shoot on straight,

1805
01:41:55,680 --> 01:42:02,000
Speaker 1: guard the gate, shoot on straight, guided by the Eagle.

1806
01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:05,439
Speaker 1: We're closing on the deer hunters to the core, despite

1807
01:42:05,560 --> 01:42:10,000
Speaker 1: the engineer, where no one's too good and we're all

1808
01:42:10,040 --> 01:42:13,960
Speaker 1: good enough. We clear our shotguns with a hearty huffy puff.

1809
01:42:16,920 --> 01:42:20,439
Speaker 1: Ruled by the seasons is the woodsman's fate. Taking it

1810
01:42:20,560 --> 01:42:25,759
Speaker 1: slow so we can shoot straight, shoot on straight. Mm hmmm,

1811
01:42:26,400 --> 01:42:32,880
Speaker 1: guard the gate. Mm hmmm. It's a beautiful day. Guy.

1812
01:42:33,000 --> 01:42:36,559
Speaker 1: That's pretty good. It's a good has made me laugh.

1813
01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:43,479
Speaker 1: Well done. I feel like that's gonna a big part

1814
01:42:43,479 --> 01:42:47,000
Speaker 1: of that's gonna make it into the Amalgamus theme song

1815
01:42:47,080 --> 01:42:50,559
Speaker 1: of THHC going forward. So thank you to Brett for

1816
01:42:50,600 --> 01:42:53,720
Speaker 1: that one that made me laugh. I needed a good

1817
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:56,000
Speaker 1: laugh because I'm doing this podcast with one eye open,

1818
01:42:56,560 --> 01:43:01,559
Speaker 1: one eye closed. So Phil some other things that we

1819
01:43:01,600 --> 01:43:03,360
Speaker 1: still need to figure out. But a lot of people

1820
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:07,280
Speaker 1: are writing in to say that they will help us

1821
01:43:07,520 --> 01:43:11,200
Speaker 1: and video your Turkey hunt. We have so many people

1822
01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:15,920
Speaker 1: that said that they would help you either film or

1823
01:43:16,120 --> 01:43:19,880
Speaker 1: give up their property. What do you think it's moving

1824
01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:22,559
Speaker 1: for sure? I mean, what do you think I mean,

1825
01:43:22,800 --> 01:43:26,720
Speaker 1: do we invite someone to to to join in? We might? Well,

1826
01:43:27,040 --> 01:43:31,000
Speaker 1: there's breaking news, breaking news this this guy writes in.

1827
01:43:31,479 --> 01:43:34,320
Speaker 1: Derek writes in, hey Ben and Phil, I just listened

1828
01:43:34,320 --> 01:43:37,760
Speaker 1: to your podcast with Janice from last week. Obviously, he said,

1829
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:40,680
Speaker 1: I always enjoy listening. I live in Marion and I

1830
01:43:40,720 --> 01:43:44,080
Speaker 1: work in Kalispell. I heard that Phil's turkey hunt will

1831
01:43:44,120 --> 01:43:47,200
Speaker 1: be outside of Whitefish, and I figured I'd say congrats,

1832
01:43:47,280 --> 01:43:50,960
Speaker 1: and if you're interested, there is a bow Jangles in Kalispell.

1833
01:43:51,360 --> 01:43:54,920
Speaker 1: Have a great week, proud cult member, Proud cult member, Derek.

1834
01:43:55,600 --> 01:43:58,080
Speaker 1: So things are all coming together, man. Yeah, we can

1835
01:43:58,080 --> 01:44:02,280
Speaker 1: get the air calls special at bow Jangles, take a nap,

1836
01:44:03,800 --> 01:44:07,320
Speaker 1: get out in the field about eleven am, and go nuts.

1837
01:44:07,960 --> 01:44:10,759
Speaker 1: So we just have to decide. I mean, we probably

1838
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:13,320
Speaker 1: could have about ten camera guys if we really wanted

1839
01:44:13,360 --> 01:44:15,439
Speaker 1: to um, but we had a lot of decisions to

1840
01:44:15,479 --> 01:44:17,599
Speaker 1: make and then in the weeks to come. But we're

1841
01:44:17,640 --> 01:44:20,439
Speaker 1: getting there, man, Like I said, I was while I

1842
01:44:20,479 --> 01:44:23,280
Speaker 1: was waiting to fly in the airport, I started buying

1843
01:44:23,320 --> 01:44:27,519
Speaker 1: turkey licenses. Pretty soon. We gotta we gotta make that

1844
01:44:27,600 --> 01:44:30,200
Speaker 1: happen for you, and then we gotta put some dates

1845
01:44:30,240 --> 01:44:33,680
Speaker 1: on the books. But I'm thinking then, get me if

1846
01:44:33,720 --> 01:44:37,200
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. I'm thinking first week of May. How do

1847
01:44:37,240 --> 01:44:40,559
Speaker 1: you feel about first week of May. Let's let's let's

1848
01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:44,880
Speaker 1: mark it down first week of May. You're in sure, right?

1849
01:44:45,280 --> 01:44:50,080
Speaker 1: This is this is us promising to do this, so

1850
01:44:50,200 --> 01:44:53,320
Speaker 1: first week in May, because when it's gonna happen first

1851
01:44:53,320 --> 01:44:58,080
Speaker 1: week in May, Montana turkeys, Phil high fence turkey is

1852
01:44:58,120 --> 01:45:01,800
Speaker 1: probably something really easy to really get that number up there.

1853
01:45:02,520 --> 01:45:04,719
Speaker 1: So now you can all look forward to it's currently

1854
01:45:04,760 --> 01:45:07,600
Speaker 1: the third week of February. All you gotta do is

1855
01:45:08,120 --> 01:45:10,720
Speaker 1: sit down. If you're ever feeling feeling sad and you

1856
01:45:10,800 --> 01:45:13,320
Speaker 1: need some motivation, just know that Phil will be hunting

1857
01:45:13,320 --> 01:45:18,880
Speaker 1: turkeys the first week of May. Say by Phil Huffy puffy,

1858
01:45:20,200 --> 01:45:25,760
Speaker 1: because I can't go a week without doing row oh

1859
01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:36,160
Speaker 1: without ring out drinking