WEBVTT - 'Peaky Blinders' Is Over. But It's Really Just Begun 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.600 Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast where 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:13.720 we speak with some of the brightest minds working in 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:18.320 the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with variety. Peaky 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.759 Blinders just kicked off its final season on Netflix in 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:24.960 the US, but fear not, fans, this show is going 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.800 to live on via brand extensions far beyond the usual merch. 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:34.640 We're talking stage production, virtual reality, even a ballet. That's 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.760 just the beginning of the unusual business model employed by 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.920 my guest today producer Karen Mandebach. More with her in 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:53.000 just a moment. My guest today is Karen Mandebach, one 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:56.720 of the executive producers of Peaky Blinders and so much more. 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:00.400 Her name is well known to any student of TV history, 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:04.480 with credits including TV mega hits like The Cosby Show, Roseanne, 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.360 That Seventies Show, just to name a few of what 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:11.160 she's produced with former partners Marcy Carcy and Tom Warner. 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.600 Thanks for joining us, Karen, Hey, Thanks Andy, Thanks for 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:17.920 having me great So let's I want to start with 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:23.800 the basics, because you are unique in the TV landscape 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:27.039 as a true independent, but I want to make sure 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:32.080 people understand what exactly that means. So walk us through 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:36.280 your arrangement. All right, Well, I started in the business 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:41.760 with Marcy actually, who hired me, having left ABC a 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:45.920 long before Dirt a long time ago, and she was 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.800 going to be an independent She's I was the first 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.480 person she hired because I was already a producer, which 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:53.320 was weird of course, because I was a woman and 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.360 young at that time. She then wanted Tom to join her, 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:58.360 so I was actually hired before Tom. But that was 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.840 the India of all indies, you know. We ended up 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:04.960 being so fortunate that it was the right time, but 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.920 also we were good And Marcio used to say that Eisner, 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:10.560 who was earlier than her boss, just wanted one hitti 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:12.839 or just give me one hittie or and it's not there, 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.679 find it? What is it? It's missing? It should be there. 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:20.040 So that was the training is to be independent. And 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:23.720 then we saw the writing on the wall in UH 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.000 after the finn Sin ruling. For all the kids out 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:27.720 there who don't know what that is, a long long 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.080 time ago, the network the networks, having no experience in 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:34.359 producing things themselves, decided what a good idea, will take 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:36.400 a chance at it. This is around the time that 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.959 we were doing Third Rock from the Sun, and I 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.880 actually have a T shirt that says I survived fourteen 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:47.680 time Slot moves Third Rock from the Sun because because 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:51.200 they used us to build up their nascent offerings, fourteen 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:54.320 of which didn't work. So we were used to being 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:58.119 uh kind of an independent and then used where the 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:02.160 networks themselves to buttress their own efforts. Having had that, 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.240 Marcy went her way, Tom with his I left him. 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:08.160 I did Nurse Jackie as an independent. I had a 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:12.080 deal with lions Gate, which six weeks later God nursed 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:15.240 Jackie just popped right out. It was great, Bob, it 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.120 was wonderful. And then uh, I took that sort of 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:19.919 idea of the business model. It was my I p 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.880 Actually the real nurse Jackie was my god daughter who cared. 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.640 But true story, and um, yeah, so I saw the 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.519 I piqued to them. They were great lions game. It 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.440 was great. And then I thought, what a good idea. 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:33.959 I'll just move to England because they'll let me. I've 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.360 gone to school here, I have friends here, and they'll 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:38.760 let me. You know, they'll let me be an independent 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.520 because we were sort of oh you know, they'd say 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:46.440 they wanted Sony or or somebody to be one of 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.440 their arms dealers as it is. No, they really didn't. 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.520 It was like my show, your show, my show, your show. 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:54.560 Well your show is better, but it is my show. 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.640 There were no indies. Within a minute we were run 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.280 out of so here in England they were extremely open 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.760 to it. It was the business model it still is 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.640 and it's a very healthy ecosystem. So how that works. 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:13.120 As you invest your own money, you go to the bank, 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:16.400 much as I remember Marcy had to mortgage your house 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.440 to set up the Cosby Show in um in New York. 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:22.279 So I did the same. I didn't mortage my house, 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:25.680 but I moved and then got lucky. That's the second thing. 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.360 I gotta get lucky. Invest your own money, then get lucky. 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:33.200 And I guess you got lucky stumbling upon Peaky Blinders. Uh, 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.320 talk about how that came to light? How you how 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:39.120 did you get that show going? Well, it wasn't it 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:43.719 wasn't anything you know, complicated, Steve Knight. I guess looked 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.239 at our background, having once been a comedy producer himself, 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.560 and decided to that myself and the guy who actually 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:53.720 does the work, Jamie glazebrook Um We're perfectly good for 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.919 this project. He pitched. Actually two projects we went to 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.159 and Mensa, who is a buyer now at net like 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.000 she was at the BBC at the time. She said 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:04.640 to Steve, which one you want to do first? He said, 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.080 I want to do Peeky Blondess first. She said great, 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:09.240 She commissioned it and then she left to go to 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:14.240 Sky the next day on Southern you have it. And 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.000 then six months later, um, you know we got a 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:21.560 green light. Now what was it about a show about 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:25.159 turn of the century gangsters that was to use something 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:28.040 to bet on? What? What was it about this intellectual 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.800 property that you had such faith in. I believe that 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.360 the outsider is the person that we should talk about most, 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.440 the person who wants something that and is not currently represented. 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.480 That's whether that's a middle class black man or an 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:45.040 overweight white working class lady. Neither of those people or 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:48.039 those images that are appeared on television or in a 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.480 funny way that seventy shows representative it. You know who's 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.800 I remember the distribution guy saying to me, well, Fox 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.720 just got baseball, you better do eighteen to forty nine 0:05:57.800 --> 0:05:59.920 year old men, And I said, well, there's no such 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.080 is eighteen to forty nine year old men. You know, 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.800 there's only like eighteen year old men and forty nine 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:06.880 year old event So I did the math and that's 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.840 how the seventy shows. But they weren't represented at the time. 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.800 That kind of kids today, So whatever generally isn't on 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.960 And if they're outsiders, no one cares about them. It's 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:20.599 the people who aren't there, and certainly the men who 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:24.520 have been um so traumatized by the war. And that's 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.520 how that continues through time. You know, my dad bought 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.760 in World War two and he still hung his thing up, 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.600 but he wouldn't talk about it. So's it's every outsider 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:37.280 recognizes every other outsider. So that's the trick, Peaky and 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:41.559 also to Steve's having written the most extraordinary, dirty Pretty 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:43.560 Things in Eastern Promises. You know, you'd have to be 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.880 an idiot not to note how radis. Yes, that great, 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:51.280 that was David Cronenberg. That who did that movie. Um So, 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:55.080 talking about outsiders, you were a real outsider in the 0:06:55.200 --> 0:07:00.839 UK despite all your success in the US. What how 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:05.040 on earth were you able to get traction in the 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:11.720 UK business being a relative unknown? Again, Uh, the intellectual 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:16.000 environment and the ecosystem was open two people like me. 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.640 I was. I wasn't brit to the extent I needed 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:23.080 to be, and Um later I actually did, you know, 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.520 past the citizenship test and stuff. But in a in 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:28.600 a way, I hung out in Britain for so long. 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:32.000 I'd always bought the rights well before everyone to various 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.239 television shows that were British because I went to school 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:36.920 here and I felt, especially in comedy, I felt comfortable 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:38.920 with the language of it. I don't know, I was 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.280 just lucky again, and I think they did respect the 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:45.880 job of producer. Um, wherever you came from got it. 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:51.080 So getting back to being an independent, it's safe to 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.560 say that there is no way you could have done 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.560 what you did in the UK here in the US. 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:00.760 Why is that the So I want you to sort 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.760 of break that down and how the UK has been 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:08.960 able to sustain uh the independent role well in the 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:13.119 first place. I believe that the Finnson rule long ago 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:19.320 was something that the corporations needed because though they had 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.720 technically they didn't do anything. They had. They had one 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.960 show I think I can't remember, maybe it was that 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:30.320 Civil Shepherd one with Bruce willis that that they actually 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.000 owned and that they actually produced. They didn't have the 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:37.000 skill set. They were just distributors. So Marci long Ago 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:41.600 empowered people to be indies. So there was Aaron's belly. 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:46.240 She empowered those people. She empowered Susan to do Golden Girls. 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.640 This was these were not production companies. So then conceptually 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:54.679 production companies indies became really popular because they did the work. 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:58.720 They really did all the work. Everyone well, my ageny 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:02.719 will will remember corporations into the work less moonvest Ran 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.640 Warners at the time, and he had eleven shows on 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.680 and only one in the top ten. I had three 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:13.880 shows on and they were one, two and three. You know, 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:18.320 sure for a long time because you're focusing on the 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:22.800 one thing, which is the work. You know. And as 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:26.600 much as you admire corporations now in the UK, there 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.520 was always a culture because don't forget it's there, money 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:33.800 making corporation. They're just there. You signed a check if 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:36.720 you want to be part of the the ecosystem that 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:40.640 gets so much money, so much um benefit for their money. 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.560 I personally would pay for BBC just for Radio four. 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.280 You know, you get radio, you get TV, you get supports, 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.160 you get everything from the BBC for just so it's 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.080 government run and people really really feel strongly it's the 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.920 best brand. You know, people feel super strongly about it. 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.640 Whereas do you really care which corporation does well in 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:04.040 the over nights? So what about this age that we're 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:08.560 in now with global streaming services like Netflix where Peaky 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:11.319 Blinders plays in the US and so many other markets. 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:17.800 Is the independent any more or less advantaged? Uh? In 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.840 this world where you're you're you're playing with companies that 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.920 make the A b c s in the US from 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:29.880 twenty years ago look like mosquitoes. Yeah, um, I think 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:34.640 you're I think everyone is struggling to figure out how 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.840 to deal with them and their behemoths, and theyre going 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.240 to give you money and you're grateful on the one hand. 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.320 On the other hand, it's very difficult if you're a 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.440 corporation like Disney is having a problem. Now you know 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.440 everyone's having a problem, So it's difficult, no matter how 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:53.199 you look at it, um to interface with these behemoths. 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:56.800 But I'm just I'm just so lucky. It's just astonishing. 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:01.880 You can't even believe how lucky you work with a distributor. 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:06.320 I believe Tiger aspect, no Tiger Aspect is not a distributor. 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:11.120 It's called Bantaja the company h and so they distribute 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.560 the product. But what is distribution? Basically calling up Netflix 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.760 and saying would you like this show? You know, this 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:23.240 was back in two thousan twelve. Okay, okay. So in 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:28.640 terms of this new world and the streaming giants that 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:34.080 run it, there's been increasing talk or frustration with the 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:37.920 so called cost plus model, getting paid up front not 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:42.000 getting any back end. How does that sit with you? Not? Well, 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:44.920 it doesn't sit well with the Jeff Siganski, doesn't sit 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.720 well with Peter Turner, it doesn't sit doesn't kids that 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:50.600 I grew up. But you know, it's not um. It's 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.040 not easy because you're not incentivized, but it is what 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:56.880 you've got. And I really truly believe that being an 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.400 indie is the best thing you could possibly be. Right now, 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.280 I think there's a lot of energy. I'm sure there's 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:05.480 trouble that there's so much energy coming from the into 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:09.319 what remains of the independent sector everywhere. And obviously I 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:11.920 live in Europe, so an hour and a half from now, 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:13.880 I'm in Amsterdam, you know, in an hour and a 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.080 half from now, you know, you're in Reno, but you 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.800 know it's a it's a larger I mean, apart from Brexit, 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.240 it's a larger community of a lot of independent, brilliant people. 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.520 So back in the day, Roger Corman, you know, it's 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.880 never it's never gonna end being the indeed, so we'll 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.880 face whatever problems we've got in terms of distribution, and 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:34.320 we'll do it. If we have a hit, we're gonna 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.760 have a hit. Well to that point, I guess my 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.600 question is, how do you know whether you have a 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:44.400 hit in a world where the streaming services don't necessarily 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:49.040 give you much of any relevant data to the performance 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:53.400 of your show. It's just initially, because this all happened 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:55.839 to me at the time it was happening to everybody, 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.440 my timing was great, you know, and lucky as ever, 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:02.800 how do I know, I think you're you're looking at 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:08.400 ratings here initially, but then luckily, social media happened at 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.960 the exact same time when Peaky was beginning. So, I mean, 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.600 we have amazing social media stats. We have six million 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.880 Instagram followers we've got and all over the world. Got 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.480 the report from Parade Analytics. It is a stunning example 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:25.280 of how popular, how much we've affected people and how 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:29.560 did we know? We got um so much feedback from 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:34.560 so many important especially artists called us talk to us 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.760 from odd places, you know, really strange. The artists will 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:39.680 do it for less money than they It was all. 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:42.440 It all came from the generosity of the spirit of 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.200 the folks that we worked with, and we're lucky to 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.439 work with. All of our villains are unbelievable. They didn't 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:49.319 have to you know, do Peaky Bondies. How about the 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.480 music itself, the essence of rock and roll, All those 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.560 deals that we made, No one got paid what they 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.679 should have gotten paid. It was for love and it 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:00.920 was for It was so that the answer to the question, 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:02.600 you do good work and a lot of people want 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:08.199 to be associated with you. We'll be back in just 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:17.800 a minute with more with Karen Mandebak. We're back with 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.239 Karen Mandebak, who was talking to us about this sensation 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:25.040 that you produced known as Peaky Blinders. Karen, I want 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:28.920 to talk now about this. I hope you're not offended 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.640 if I call it an aggressive brand extension strategy for 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:37.880 Peaky Uh. Talk walk us through what your strategy is, 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:44.360 because it's it's quite interesting. Well, if you were not 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.520 to compare myself in any way to George Lucas, but 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.360 if you if you did create an family at the 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.840 center of what we're talking about, if you did a 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:56.000 great hit, you didn't. You don't know the manifestations. You 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:57.920 don't know that there'll be DVDs. You don't know that 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.400 there'll be laser choices. You really you know you don't know, 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.880 but you ask questions. So I just asked everybody, what 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:07.040 do you think? Because people here in England go to 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.760 Abram Mitzvah dressed up as as a peaky blinder. There 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:13.160 are weddings right around my neighborhood, all peaky blinder themed. 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:18.280 They embody the feeling of the peaky blinders so deeply 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:21.440 the haircuts that you know that. I went to Paris 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.840 the other day and some waiter said to me something 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:25.080 and I just looked at and said, I bet your 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.680 a peaky blinder. He said, yeah, I am, And he said, 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:30.520 but if my father ever knew I was talking to you, 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:32.440 and I said, tell me more. He said, my father 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.440 and I don't speak except for we talked about peaky blinders. 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:39.080 So so the depth of the appreciation, I mean, the 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:43.480 social media. UM demands that we've been given by parad 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.760 Analytics are off the charts. They feel it. So what 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:48.600 does that mean? I don't know. It's a it's a 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.000 great adult not child brand, so we don't aren't going 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.880 to do toys or obviously razor blades. But there there's 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:59.560 a media. Could be animation, you know, it could it 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:01.680 could be virtual reality, don't know. Right now, we have 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.840 immersive theater opening in Camden. I think it's gonna be 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.000 a big hit in UM in July. You know what 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.640 I mean by mercive theater sort of interacted? Explain a bit. 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:18.120 Is UM the the improvisational acting community which I was 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.160 a part long, long, long time ago. UH invites you 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:26.200 to this. This is Encampden. It's a giant former horse 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.920 stable UH grade two listed, so you know, don't take 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.560 it down. UH. And you come and you give us 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.320 your money, and then actors invite you in and then 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:37.440 you don't know what's happening to you. But you're improvising 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:39.480 with actors and they're going to take you through a 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.520 peaky blinders experience. And more than that, you needn't know 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.240 because if we're not telling our secrets. But fans of 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:47.760 the show will be it's kind of like going to 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.480 Disneyland and being a pirate. Wow. I mean, but where 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.480 does an idea like that even come from to do that? 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.440 The theater community and uh, you know, also where does 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.800 the idea we're doing the ball around? Their dance company 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:06.119 is doing a Peaky Blinders dance. Uh, and you know, 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.240 we can't call it bale. It's a dance performance all 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.679 over England and starting in Birmingham and then hopefully all 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.399 over the world, so that in that case it doesn't 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:19.280 sound like it's the execution on that particular I P. 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.040 Does that not originate with you? Do? They come to 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.159 you and you license, and they come to us and 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.399 we say it should go a little like this, and 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.000 then we look at their work and we just thank them. 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:32.359 If there are so many talented people that want some 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.760 kind of don't forget it's it's like a four quad thing. 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:40.919 Everyone likes it, men, women, young, old, you know, everyone 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:44.879 who's got Netflix basically and BBC I Player here. So 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:48.720 it's an incredibly deep experience. They really feel in it. 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:51.560 I don't know how to explain it. I really wish 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.359 because it's like magical thinking to a certain extent, I 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.399 want to feel like they feel they really feel it 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.520 deeply if you read, you know, just this districts on 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.639 the on the data about how people are experienced it. 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.600 They love it, and it's because they want to. They 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:10.760 want to embody the difficulty and the and the joy 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.880 of trying to be aspirational in today's society. So are 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:19.920 all these extensions of people coming into you and saying, hey, 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.320 we want to do X or does it ever flow 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.639 the other way where you guys say, hey, we have 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.320 an idea for this, let's go find someone to execute. 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:32.240 It's mostly the former, um because because it's really difficult 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:37.919 to get your brand extended in any meaningful way. And 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.080 so yeah, we we go to well, obviously do the 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:45.400 movie and TV stenofs, that's us, but it's the that's 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.360 what you'd expect. But the other stuff is so um 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.680 important because people really feel it, and you've got to 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:57.600 honor that. It's a two way thing. Now, virtual reality 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.399 and peaky Blinders. How do these two come together? I 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.119 can't even I don't know, I don't know. We're just 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:05.800 at the beginning stages. Who knows. Do you even understand it? 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.280 I mean, you know, I talked to Matthew Bob. He 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:10.000 speaks to me, and I'm like, I don't what is 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.320 he saying? But I do vaguely understand the concept. And 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.560 it's the universe. You want to embody, you're playing a role, 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:20.560 and it's um. I'm not saying it's biblical, like you know, 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:25.200 the Magi Christmas Pageant, but it does have it has 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:29.119 a deeper meaning too. Well. Everybody fits into the universe 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:31.320 in a way. I know. I'm at Polly for sure. 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.920 So from a business model perspective, it doesn't sound as 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:39.960 if all these extensions are sort of, you know, critical 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:44.160 to making the best profit you can off the show. 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:47.399 It almost sounds more like it's gravy, like it's happenstance. 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:52.040 Is that fair to say? I don't know. I don't know. Again, 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.399 as George Lucas worked up for him, but in the 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:59.040 because you know, he borrowed money from his friend Franciscopola 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.200 in order to do movie too, So I really don't. 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:03.840 I don't know how it's going to turn out. We 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.160 all are in on chartered Waters, aren't we, all of us. Well, 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.080 let let me put it this way. It's not as 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:13.399 if when Peaky Blinders first started, you said, okay, okay, 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:15.640 so this is something that just sort of it happened, 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:20.480 and it's like, okay, you know, we're just responding to 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.360 whatever is happening on earth right now. We just are 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:26.399 very lucky that I own the I P. And there's 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:31.640 I mean there's more. There's jewelry, clothing themed barber shops 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:36.560 and pubs. Well, now, the Bushmills one is interesting because 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.359 there was some legal action around that. You know, you 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.560 had other beverage producers that went of their own accord 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:48.159 to make well were they naughty? I want you to 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.040 walk through the legal issues here because I think to 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:55.320 them they didn't feel as if, because Peaky Blinders is 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:58.399 sort of a piece of UK history, that they felt 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:02.600 they needed to even get your permission to do that. 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:06.520 And I gather you disagree, Yeah we did and we won. 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:09.760 But um, I don't know. The legal technicalities are everywhere. 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.600 If you walk around in London, there's a place called 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:15.840 Perky Blenders, you know, the coffee place. So it's it's 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:19.480 being it's being usurped in every possible way. The specifics 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:20.879 of the bush miose things I don't know. All I 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:24.000 know is, uh, you can get some Irish whiskey because 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:29.360 that's what Tommy Shelby drank. Okay um, I mean, let's 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.960 put it this way. Do you have people accountants whispering 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.639 in your ear that you know, if all these brand 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:39.639 extensions go, well, this could be you know, like the 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:44.479 like the syndication money train of old or hey, this 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:48.720 is just a little incremental profits and enjoy it. Like gosh, 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:52.240 I wish I knew, But we feel so passionately about 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:55.679 honoring Steve's vision. It really is an important thing. And 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:57.200 you know, we get a call at the very beginning, 0:21:57.200 --> 0:21:59.320 we got a call from Snoop Dogg who said he 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:01.800 just really respond to it, like really right. You know, 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:04.080 then you start to understand it does have meaning to 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.320 everybody who feels that there or Lebron you know, there's 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:10.960 there's an odd um kind of it's the number one 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:15.040 showing Brazil, you know. Yeah, so you get you get 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:17.800 a sense of how meaningful it is to people, and 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:20.000 you honor that and whether or not it's remunerative. To 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:22.120 be honest, it never happened to me before. I have 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:27.400 no idea. Now I'm surprised that whether it's Netflix or BBC, 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:30.240 that they're not trying to sort of dick wolf this 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:34.120 concept and do you know Peaky two and Peaky Los 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:41.960 Angeles or I mean any of that brewing? No, okay, 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:48.160 but why dude? I think it's because the the truth 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:51.240 of it comes from uh people like us who who 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:54.040 have done the work, and they're just looking at it 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:57.480 like a corporate decision. You know, we're we're very interested 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:00.919 in maximizing every bit of profit of is like, but 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:03.159 we have to do it because we feel it. We 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:04.520 have to do because it's the right thing in the 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:06.760 right time, in the right place and the right era 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:08.760 and the right Is it Boston or if we do 0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:11.560 did it in America, would it be I don't know 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:15.080