Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast where
Speaker 1: we speak with some of the brightest minds working in
Speaker 1: the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with variety. Peaky
Speaker 1: Blinders just kicked off its final season on Netflix in
Speaker 1: the US, but fear not, fans, this show is going
Speaker 1: to live on via brand extensions far beyond the usual merch.
Speaker 1: We're talking stage production, virtual reality, even a ballet. That's
Speaker 1: just the beginning of the unusual business model employed by
Speaker 1: my guest today producer Karen Mandebach. More with her in
Speaker 1: just a moment. My guest today is Karen Mandebach, one
Speaker 1: of the executive producers of Peaky Blinders and so much more.
Speaker 1: Her name is well known to any student of TV history,
Speaker 1: with credits including TV mega hits like The Cosby Show, Roseanne,
Speaker 1: That Seventies Show, just to name a few of what
Speaker 1: she's produced with former partners Marcy Carcy and Tom Warner.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Karen, Hey, Thanks Andy, Thanks for
Speaker 1: having me great So let's I want to start with
Speaker 1: the basics, because you are unique in the TV landscape
Speaker 1: as a true independent, but I want to make sure
Speaker 1: people understand what exactly that means. So walk us through
Speaker 1: your arrangement. All right, Well, I started in the business
Speaker 1: with Marcy actually, who hired me, having left ABC a
Speaker 1: long before Dirt a long time ago, and she was
Speaker 1: going to be an independent She's I was the first
Speaker 1: person she hired because I was already a producer, which
Speaker 1: was weird of course, because I was a woman and
Speaker 1: young at that time. She then wanted Tom to join her,
Speaker 1: so I was actually hired before Tom. But that was
Speaker 1: the India of all indies, you know. We ended up
Speaker 1: being so fortunate that it was the right time, but
Speaker 1: also we were good And Marcio used to say that Eisner,
Speaker 1: who was earlier than her boss, just wanted one hitti
Speaker 1: or just give me one hittie or and it's not there,
Speaker 1: find it? What is it? It's missing? It should be there.
Speaker 1: So that was the training is to be independent. And
Speaker 1: then we saw the writing on the wall in UH
Speaker 1: after the finn Sin ruling. For all the kids out
Speaker 1: there who don't know what that is, a long long
Speaker 1: time ago, the network the networks, having no experience in
Speaker 1: producing things themselves, decided what a good idea, will take
Speaker 1: a chance at it. This is around the time that
Speaker 1: we were doing Third Rock from the Sun, and I
Speaker 1: actually have a T shirt that says I survived fourteen
Speaker 1: time Slot moves Third Rock from the Sun because because
Speaker 1: they used us to build up their nascent offerings, fourteen
Speaker 1: of which didn't work. So we were used to being
Speaker 1: uh kind of an independent and then used where the
Speaker 1: networks themselves to buttress their own efforts. Having had that,
Speaker 1: Marcy went her way, Tom with his I left him.
Speaker 1: I did Nurse Jackie as an independent. I had a
Speaker 1: deal with lions Gate, which six weeks later God nursed
Speaker 1: Jackie just popped right out. It was great, Bob, it
Speaker 1: was wonderful. And then uh, I took that sort of
Speaker 1: idea of the business model. It was my I p
Speaker 1: Actually the real nurse Jackie was my god daughter who cared.
Speaker 1: But true story, and um, yeah, so I saw the
Speaker 1: I piqued to them. They were great lions game. It
Speaker 1: was great. And then I thought, what a good idea.
Speaker 1: I'll just move to England because they'll let me. I've
Speaker 1: gone to school here, I have friends here, and they'll
Speaker 1: let me. You know, they'll let me be an independent
Speaker 1: because we were sort of oh you know, they'd say
Speaker 1: they wanted Sony or or somebody to be one of
Speaker 1: their arms dealers as it is. No, they really didn't.
Speaker 1: It was like my show, your show, my show, your show.
Speaker 1: Well your show is better, but it is my show.
Speaker 1: There were no indies. Within a minute we were run
Speaker 1: out of so here in England they were extremely open
Speaker 1: to it. It was the business model it still is
Speaker 1: and it's a very healthy ecosystem. So how that works.
Speaker 1: As you invest your own money, you go to the bank,
Speaker 1: much as I remember Marcy had to mortgage your house
Speaker 1: to set up the Cosby Show in um in New York.
Speaker 1: So I did the same. I didn't mortage my house,
Speaker 1: but I moved and then got lucky. That's the second thing.
Speaker 1: I gotta get lucky. Invest your own money, then get lucky.
Speaker 1: And I guess you got lucky stumbling upon Peaky Blinders. Uh,
Speaker 1: talk about how that came to light? How you how
Speaker 1: did you get that show going? Well, it wasn't it
Speaker 1: wasn't anything you know, complicated, Steve Knight. I guess looked
Speaker 1: at our background, having once been a comedy producer himself,
Speaker 1: and decided to that myself and the guy who actually
Speaker 1: does the work, Jamie glazebrook Um We're perfectly good for
Speaker 1: this project. He pitched. Actually two projects we went to
Speaker 1: and Mensa, who is a buyer now at net like
Speaker 1: she was at the BBC at the time. She said
Speaker 1: to Steve, which one you want to do first? He said,
Speaker 1: I want to do Peeky Blondess first. She said great,
Speaker 1: She commissioned it and then she left to go to
Speaker 1: Sky the next day on Southern you have it. And
Speaker 1: then six months later, um, you know we got a
Speaker 1: green light. Now what was it about a show about
Speaker 1: turn of the century gangsters that was to use something
Speaker 1: to bet on? What? What was it about this intellectual
Speaker 1: property that you had such faith in. I believe that
Speaker 1: the outsider is the person that we should talk about most,
Speaker 1: the person who wants something that and is not currently represented.
Speaker 1: That's whether that's a middle class black man or an
Speaker 1: overweight white working class lady. Neither of those people or
Speaker 1: those images that are appeared on television or in a
Speaker 1: funny way that seventy shows representative it. You know who's
Speaker 1: I remember the distribution guy saying to me, well, Fox
Speaker 1: just got baseball, you better do eighteen to forty nine
Speaker 1: year old men, And I said, well, there's no such
Speaker 1: is eighteen to forty nine year old men. You know,
Speaker 1: there's only like eighteen year old men and forty nine
Speaker 1: year old event So I did the math and that's
Speaker 1: how the seventy shows. But they weren't represented at the time.
Speaker 1: That kind of kids today, So whatever generally isn't on
Speaker 1: And if they're outsiders, no one cares about them. It's
Speaker 1: the people who aren't there, and certainly the men who
Speaker 1: have been um so traumatized by the war. And that's
Speaker 1: how that continues through time. You know, my dad bought
Speaker 1: in World War two and he still hung his thing up,
Speaker 1: but he wouldn't talk about it. So's it's every outsider
Speaker 1: recognizes every other outsider. So that's the trick, Peaky and
Speaker 1: also to Steve's having written the most extraordinary, dirty Pretty
Speaker 1: Things in Eastern Promises. You know, you'd have to be
Speaker 1: an idiot not to note how radis. Yes, that great,
Speaker 1: that was David Cronenberg. That who did that movie. Um So,
Speaker 1: talking about outsiders, you were a real outsider in the
Speaker 1: UK despite all your success in the US. What how
Speaker 1: on earth were you able to get traction in the
Speaker 1: UK business being a relative unknown? Again, Uh, the intellectual
Speaker 1: environment and the ecosystem was open two people like me.
Speaker 1: I was. I wasn't brit to the extent I needed
Speaker 1: to be, and Um later I actually did, you know,
Speaker 1: past the citizenship test and stuff. But in a in
Speaker 1: a way, I hung out in Britain for so long.
Speaker 1: I'd always bought the rights well before everyone to various
Speaker 1: television shows that were British because I went to school
Speaker 1: here and I felt, especially in comedy, I felt comfortable
Speaker 1: with the language of it. I don't know, I was
Speaker 1: just lucky again, and I think they did respect the
Speaker 1: job of producer. Um, wherever you came from got it.
Speaker 1: So getting back to being an independent, it's safe to
Speaker 1: say that there is no way you could have done
Speaker 1: what you did in the UK here in the US.
Speaker 1: Why is that the So I want you to sort
Speaker 1: of break that down and how the UK has been
Speaker 1: able to sustain uh the independent role well in the
Speaker 1: first place. I believe that the Finnson rule long ago
Speaker 1: was something that the corporations needed because though they had
Speaker 1: technically they didn't do anything. They had. They had one
Speaker 1: show I think I can't remember, maybe it was that
Speaker 1: Civil Shepherd one with Bruce willis that that they actually
Speaker 1: owned and that they actually produced. They didn't have the
Speaker 1: skill set. They were just distributors. So Marci long Ago
Speaker 1: empowered people to be indies. So there was Aaron's belly.
Speaker 1: She empowered those people. She empowered Susan to do Golden Girls.
Speaker 1: This was these were not production companies. So then conceptually
Speaker 1: production companies indies became really popular because they did the work.
Speaker 1: They really did all the work. Everyone well, my ageny
Speaker 1: will will remember corporations into the work less moonvest Ran
Speaker 1: Warners at the time, and he had eleven shows on
Speaker 1: and only one in the top ten. I had three
Speaker 1: shows on and they were one, two and three. You know,
Speaker 1: sure for a long time because you're focusing on the
Speaker 1: one thing, which is the work. You know. And as
Speaker 1: much as you admire corporations now in the UK, there
Speaker 1: was always a culture because don't forget it's there, money
Speaker 1: making corporation. They're just there. You signed a check if
Speaker 1: you want to be part of the the ecosystem that
Speaker 1: gets so much money, so much um benefit for their money.
Speaker 1: I personally would pay for BBC just for Radio four.
Speaker 1: You know, you get radio, you get TV, you get supports,
Speaker 1: you get everything from the BBC for just so it's
Speaker 1: government run and people really really feel strongly it's the
Speaker 1: best brand. You know, people feel super strongly about it.
Speaker 1: Whereas do you really care which corporation does well in
Speaker 1: the over nights? So what about this age that we're
Speaker 1: in now with global streaming services like Netflix where Peaky
Speaker 1: Blinders plays in the US and so many other markets.
Speaker 1: Is the independent any more or less advantaged? Uh? In
Speaker 1: this world where you're you're you're playing with companies that
Speaker 1: make the A b c s in the US from
Speaker 1: twenty years ago look like mosquitoes. Yeah, um, I think
Speaker 1: you're I think everyone is struggling to figure out how
Speaker 1: to deal with them and their behemoths, and theyre going
Speaker 1: to give you money and you're grateful on the one hand.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, it's very difficult if you're a
Speaker 1: corporation like Disney is having a problem. Now you know
Speaker 1: everyone's having a problem, So it's difficult, no matter how
Speaker 1: you look at it, um to interface with these behemoths.
Speaker 1: But I'm just I'm just so lucky. It's just astonishing.
Speaker 1: You can't even believe how lucky you work with a distributor.
Speaker 1: I believe Tiger aspect, no Tiger Aspect is not a distributor.
Speaker 1: It's called Bantaja the company h and so they distribute
Speaker 1: the product. But what is distribution? Basically calling up Netflix
Speaker 1: and saying would you like this show? You know, this
Speaker 1: was back in two thousan twelve. Okay, okay. So in
Speaker 1: terms of this new world and the streaming giants that
Speaker 1: run it, there's been increasing talk or frustration with the
Speaker 1: so called cost plus model, getting paid up front not
Speaker 1: getting any back end. How does that sit with you? Not? Well,
Speaker 1: it doesn't sit well with the Jeff Siganski, doesn't sit
Speaker 1: well with Peter Turner, it doesn't sit doesn't kids that
Speaker 1: I grew up. But you know, it's not um. It's
Speaker 1: not easy because you're not incentivized, but it is what
Speaker 1: you've got. And I really truly believe that being an
Speaker 1: indie is the best thing you could possibly be. Right now,
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of energy. I'm sure there's
Speaker 1: trouble that there's so much energy coming from the into
Speaker 1: what remains of the independent sector everywhere. And obviously I
Speaker 1: live in Europe, so an hour and a half from now,
Speaker 1: I'm in Amsterdam, you know, in an hour and a
Speaker 1: half from now, you know, you're in Reno, but you
Speaker 1: know it's a it's a larger I mean, apart from Brexit,
Speaker 1: it's a larger community of a lot of independent, brilliant people.
Speaker 1: So back in the day, Roger Corman, you know, it's
Speaker 1: never it's never gonna end being the indeed, so we'll
Speaker 1: face whatever problems we've got in terms of distribution, and
Speaker 1: we'll do it. If we have a hit, we're gonna
Speaker 1: have a hit. Well to that point, I guess my
Speaker 1: question is, how do you know whether you have a
Speaker 1: hit in a world where the streaming services don't necessarily
Speaker 1: give you much of any relevant data to the performance
Speaker 1: of your show. It's just initially, because this all happened
Speaker 1: to me at the time it was happening to everybody,
Speaker 1: my timing was great, you know, and lucky as ever,
Speaker 1: how do I know, I think you're you're looking at
Speaker 1: ratings here initially, but then luckily, social media happened at
Speaker 1: the exact same time when Peaky was beginning. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: we have amazing social media stats. We have six million
Speaker 1: Instagram followers we've got and all over the world. Got
Speaker 1: the report from Parade Analytics. It is a stunning example
Speaker 1: of how popular, how much we've affected people and how
Speaker 1: did we know? We got um so much feedback from
Speaker 1: so many important especially artists called us talk to us
Speaker 1: from odd places, you know, really strange. The artists will
Speaker 1: do it for less money than they It was all.
Speaker 1: It all came from the generosity of the spirit of
Speaker 1: the folks that we worked with, and we're lucky to
Speaker 1: work with. All of our villains are unbelievable. They didn't
Speaker 1: have to you know, do Peaky Bondies. How about the
Speaker 1: music itself, the essence of rock and roll, All those
Speaker 1: deals that we made, No one got paid what they
Speaker 1: should have gotten paid. It was for love and it
Speaker 1: was for It was so that the answer to the question,
Speaker 1: you do good work and a lot of people want
Speaker 1: to be associated with you. We'll be back in just
Speaker 1: a minute with more with Karen Mandebak. We're back with
Speaker 1: Karen Mandebak, who was talking to us about this sensation
Speaker 1: that you produced known as Peaky Blinders. Karen, I want
Speaker 1: to talk now about this. I hope you're not offended
Speaker 1: if I call it an aggressive brand extension strategy for
Speaker 1: Peaky Uh. Talk walk us through what your strategy is,
Speaker 1: because it's it's quite interesting. Well, if you were not
Speaker 1: to compare myself in any way to George Lucas, but
Speaker 1: if you if you did create an family at the
Speaker 1: center of what we're talking about, if you did a
Speaker 1: great hit, you didn't. You don't know the manifestations. You
Speaker 1: don't know that there'll be DVDs. You don't know that
Speaker 1: there'll be laser choices. You really you know you don't know,
Speaker 1: but you ask questions. So I just asked everybody, what
Speaker 1: do you think? Because people here in England go to
Speaker 1: Abram Mitzvah dressed up as as a peaky blinder. There
Speaker 1: are weddings right around my neighborhood, all peaky blinder themed.
Speaker 1: They embody the feeling of the peaky blinders so deeply
Speaker 1: the haircuts that you know that. I went to Paris
Speaker 1: the other day and some waiter said to me something
Speaker 1: and I just looked at and said, I bet your
Speaker 1: a peaky blinder. He said, yeah, I am, And he said,
Speaker 1: but if my father ever knew I was talking to you,
Speaker 1: and I said, tell me more. He said, my father
Speaker 1: and I don't speak except for we talked about peaky blinders.
Speaker 1: So so the depth of the appreciation, I mean, the
Speaker 1: social media. UM demands that we've been given by parad
Speaker 1: Analytics are off the charts. They feel it. So what
Speaker 1: does that mean? I don't know. It's a it's a
Speaker 1: great adult not child brand, so we don't aren't going
Speaker 1: to do toys or obviously razor blades. But there there's
Speaker 1: a media. Could be animation, you know, it could it
Speaker 1: could be virtual reality, don't know. Right now, we have
Speaker 1: immersive theater opening in Camden. I think it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a big hit in UM in July. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean by mercive theater sort of interacted? Explain a bit.
Speaker 1: Is UM the the improvisational acting community which I was
Speaker 1: a part long, long, long time ago. UH invites you
Speaker 1: to this. This is Encampden. It's a giant former horse
Speaker 1: stable UH grade two listed, so you know, don't take
Speaker 1: it down. UH. And you come and you give us
Speaker 1: your money, and then actors invite you in and then
Speaker 1: you don't know what's happening to you. But you're improvising
Speaker 1: with actors and they're going to take you through a
Speaker 1: peaky blinders experience. And more than that, you needn't know
Speaker 1: because if we're not telling our secrets. But fans of
Speaker 1: the show will be it's kind of like going to
Speaker 1: Disneyland and being a pirate. Wow. I mean, but where
Speaker 1: does an idea like that even come from to do that?
Speaker 1: The theater community and uh, you know, also where does
Speaker 1: the idea we're doing the ball around? Their dance company
Speaker 1: is doing a Peaky Blinders dance. Uh, and you know,
Speaker 1: we can't call it bale. It's a dance performance all
Speaker 1: over England and starting in Birmingham and then hopefully all
Speaker 1: over the world, so that in that case it doesn't
Speaker 1: sound like it's the execution on that particular I P.
Speaker 1: Does that not originate with you? Do? They come to
Speaker 1: you and you license, and they come to us and
Speaker 1: we say it should go a little like this, and
Speaker 1: then we look at their work and we just thank them.
Speaker 1: If there are so many talented people that want some
Speaker 1: kind of don't forget it's it's like a four quad thing.
Speaker 1: Everyone likes it, men, women, young, old, you know, everyone
Speaker 1: who's got Netflix basically and BBC I Player here. So
Speaker 1: it's an incredibly deep experience. They really feel in it.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to explain it. I really wish
Speaker 1: because it's like magical thinking to a certain extent, I
Speaker 1: want to feel like they feel they really feel it
Speaker 1: deeply if you read, you know, just this districts on
Speaker 1: the on the data about how people are experienced it.
Speaker 1: They love it, and it's because they want to. They
Speaker 1: want to embody the difficulty and the and the joy
Speaker 1: of trying to be aspirational in today's society. So are
Speaker 1: all these extensions of people coming into you and saying, hey,
Speaker 1: we want to do X or does it ever flow
Speaker 1: the other way where you guys say, hey, we have
Speaker 1: an idea for this, let's go find someone to execute.
Speaker 1: It's mostly the former, um because because it's really difficult
Speaker 1: to get your brand extended in any meaningful way. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, we we go to well, obviously do the
Speaker 1: movie and TV stenofs, that's us, but it's the that's
Speaker 1: what you'd expect. But the other stuff is so um
Speaker 1: important because people really feel it, and you've got to
Speaker 1: honor that. It's a two way thing. Now, virtual reality
Speaker 1: and peaky Blinders. How do these two come together? I
Speaker 1: can't even I don't know, I don't know. We're just
Speaker 1: at the beginning stages. Who knows. Do you even understand it?
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I talked to Matthew Bob. He
Speaker 1: speaks to me, and I'm like, I don't what is
Speaker 1: he saying? But I do vaguely understand the concept. And
Speaker 1: it's the universe. You want to embody, you're playing a role,
Speaker 1: and it's um. I'm not saying it's biblical, like you know,
Speaker 1: the Magi Christmas Pageant, but it does have it has
Speaker 1: a deeper meaning too. Well. Everybody fits into the universe
Speaker 1: in a way. I know. I'm at Polly for sure.
Speaker 1: So from a business model perspective, it doesn't sound as
Speaker 1: if all these extensions are sort of, you know, critical
Speaker 1: to making the best profit you can off the show.
Speaker 1: It almost sounds more like it's gravy, like it's happenstance.
Speaker 1: Is that fair to say? I don't know. I don't know. Again,
Speaker 1: as George Lucas worked up for him, but in the
Speaker 1: because you know, he borrowed money from his friend Franciscopola
Speaker 1: in order to do movie too, So I really don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know how it's going to turn out. We
Speaker 1: all are in on chartered Waters, aren't we, all of us. Well,
Speaker 1: let let me put it this way. It's not as
Speaker 1: if when Peaky Blinders first started, you said, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: so this is something that just sort of it happened,
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, you know, we're just responding to
Speaker 1: whatever is happening on earth right now. We just are
Speaker 1: very lucky that I own the I P. And there's
Speaker 1: I mean there's more. There's jewelry, clothing themed barber shops
Speaker 1: and pubs. Well, now, the Bushmills one is interesting because
Speaker 1: there was some legal action around that. You know, you
Speaker 1: had other beverage producers that went of their own accord
Speaker 1: to make well were they naughty? I want you to
Speaker 1: walk through the legal issues here because I think to
Speaker 1: them they didn't feel as if, because Peaky Blinders is
Speaker 1: sort of a piece of UK history, that they felt
Speaker 1: they needed to even get your permission to do that.
Speaker 1: And I gather you disagree, Yeah we did and we won.
Speaker 1: But um, I don't know. The legal technicalities are everywhere.
Speaker 1: If you walk around in London, there's a place called
Speaker 1: Perky Blenders, you know, the coffee place. So it's it's
Speaker 1: being it's being usurped in every possible way. The specifics
Speaker 1: of the bush miose things I don't know. All I
Speaker 1: know is, uh, you can get some Irish whiskey because
Speaker 1: that's what Tommy Shelby drank. Okay um, I mean, let's
Speaker 1: put it this way. Do you have people accountants whispering
Speaker 1: in your ear that you know, if all these brand
Speaker 1: extensions go, well, this could be you know, like the
Speaker 1: like the syndication money train of old or hey, this
Speaker 1: is just a little incremental profits and enjoy it. Like gosh,
Speaker 1: I wish I knew, But we feel so passionately about
Speaker 1: honoring Steve's vision. It really is an important thing. And
Speaker 1: you know, we get a call at the very beginning,
Speaker 1: we got a call from Snoop Dogg who said he
Speaker 1: just really respond to it, like really right. You know,
Speaker 1: then you start to understand it does have meaning to
Speaker 1: everybody who feels that there or Lebron you know, there's
Speaker 1: there's an odd um kind of it's the number one
Speaker 1: showing Brazil, you know. Yeah, so you get you get
Speaker 1: a sense of how meaningful it is to people, and
Speaker 1: you honor that and whether or not it's remunerative. To
Speaker 1: be honest, it never happened to me before. I have
Speaker 1: no idea. Now I'm surprised that whether it's Netflix or BBC,
Speaker 1: that they're not trying to sort of dick wolf this
Speaker 1: concept and do you know Peaky two and Peaky Los
Speaker 1: Angeles or I mean any of that brewing? No, okay,
Speaker 1: but why dude? I think it's because the the truth
Speaker 1: of it comes from uh people like us who who
Speaker 1: have done the work, and they're just looking at it
Speaker 1: like a corporate decision. You know, we're we're very interested
Speaker 1: in maximizing every bit of profit of is like, but
Speaker 1: we have to do it because we feel it. We
Speaker 1: have to do because it's the right thing in the
Speaker 1: right time, in the right place and the right era
Speaker 1: and the right Is it Boston or if we do
Speaker 1: did it in America, would it be I don't know
Speaker 1: where the gypsies and what's the all another the creative
Speaker 1: leads of business? Okay, but you know when you mentioned
Speaker 1: something like it's number one in Brazil? Could we see
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm sure some of your hit shows
Speaker 1: from back in the day have been recreated in a
Speaker 1: you know, localized kind of way. No they haven't. They haven't, Okay,
Speaker 1: but but you know what I mean, other sitcoms certainly have.
Speaker 1: Could we see a you know, I don't know Brazilian,
Speaker 1: but Portuguese Peaky Blind. I mean I could, I could
Speaker 1: give them the rights, Yes, I could. I know. Uh Turkey,
Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, it asked for the rights
Speaker 1: at one point. But I would have to also work
Speaker 1: with the suppliers myself too, because we have to honor
Speaker 1: the essence of the brand. It's very difficult. You know,
Speaker 1: comedy doesn't travel. I'm sure you know that. But they
Speaker 1: laugh out in Spain. Uh, they don't laugh in Italy.
Speaker 1: But in that's why comedy it's a shame because everybody
Speaker 1: is trying to cost cut, and comedy would have been
Speaker 1: a good way to cost cut, you know, because it
Speaker 1: doesn't cost that much. But to make sure you've got
Speaker 1: the essence of peaking in the language whatever it's going
Speaker 1: to be, and in the the cultural referencing is really important,
Speaker 1: because I don't forget it was also in the context
Speaker 1: was very important Peaky between the wars. Sure, now you
Speaker 1: guys are going to be doing a movie, right the
Speaker 1: other ware negotiations? Yeah, okay, So again you're this independent
Speaker 1: and you've explained how that's worked in the TV world.
Speaker 1: Is it a different set of challenges in the film world,
Speaker 1: it's pretty much the same. It's pretty much the same.
Speaker 1: It's a different set of rights and a different set
Speaker 1: of of protections, and it's all very but much about well,
Speaker 1: you know, Netflix's business models, so in the case of
Speaker 1: negotiating with Netflix, so it's an incredibly challenging time, but
Speaker 1: so what you know, it's a lot of fun. And
Speaker 1: since I'm an independent, there's just it's just another challenge
Speaker 1: and it's I really do like the buying community too.
Speaker 1: I think there's some really good operators in there. So, um,
Speaker 1: I genuinely feel like optimistic about the build thing. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm curious about your optimism in a world where you know,
Speaker 1: the global economy is starting to look pretty dim and
Speaker 1: we could see content spending that is obviously astronomical right
Speaker 1: now start to pull back. Does any of that discourage you?
Speaker 1: It does? But where I am to a certain extent,
Speaker 1: you know, they still have tax credits, so whatever I
Speaker 1: spent I back. There's there are ways around that where
Speaker 1: you don't get hurt. If you're an indie, you don't
Speaker 1: wake as much money, but you don't get hurt, whereas
Speaker 1: in corporation the whole thing, I mean, you know, Disney
Speaker 1: hasn't even announced its international straft g since they decided
Speaker 1: is streaming, they're they're they're far more confused than I am.
Speaker 1: I have a proposition. Do you want it? How much
Speaker 1: do you want to pay for it? Okay? And you know,
Speaker 1: Peaky was done pretty well in terms of the way
Speaker 1: we spent I'm extremely proud of our production. Extremely We
Speaker 1: didn't spend the kind of money anywhere near the kind
Speaker 1: of money that you think we did considering its cinematic value.
Speaker 1: Like I said, we got a lot of We've got
Speaker 1: a lot of and love for every one of our
Speaker 1: directors love and every one of our actors loved. So
Speaker 1: you can you can dine out a lot on if
Speaker 1: you have the right kind of product. You want cultural
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to cost that much. You just want
Speaker 1: cultural impact. So we're we're talking at a time where
Speaker 1: Peaky is at its peak, and so I'm curious what
Speaker 1: that means for you in terms of, you know, do
Speaker 1: you have other shows set up out there that maybe
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with Peaky? What's coming next for you? Sure,
Speaker 1: We've got a ton of things in the pipeline, and
Speaker 1: it's it's an incredibly Like I said to me, it's
Speaker 1: a great time to be an indie. You can call
Speaker 1: your own shots. And I feel like we don't need
Speaker 1: to prove anything. We're great at producing. That's what we do.
Speaker 1: That's all we do. I don't have another job. I'm
Speaker 1: not an actor, you know. I don't have another job,
Speaker 1: not a director. I'm I'm a long term producer, and
Speaker 1: I know what it means. And I so respect people
Speaker 1: in the community, whether they're in the movie business or
Speaker 1: the television business, that have taken the road I've taken
Speaker 1: because it's pretty nutty. It's like alchemy. It's weird. But
Speaker 1: when you say it's a great time to be an indie,
Speaker 1: I would imagine some people would really scratch their heads
Speaker 1: and say, in this consolidated world, how could that be true?
Speaker 1: Because you need a hit, and hits are going to
Speaker 1: come not just from within walled gardens of giants. Correct.
Speaker 1: You gotta you know, we developed to a certain extent. Uh,
Speaker 1: you gotta get lucky. Like I said, You've got to
Speaker 1: know it when you see it. But nobody is throwing
Speaker 1: anything up against the wall and hoping that it sticks.
Speaker 1: You know, Everything that we do is really thought out
Speaker 1: with the buyer in mind. Okay, And so speaking of
Speaker 1: buyers do you have You have different irons in the
Speaker 1: fire now, But is there any one project you could
Speaker 1: talk about that's farthest along and development? That's I never
Speaker 1: talked about development never really ever, I've never talked about it.
Speaker 1: It's not on any because it's well, it's sort of bad. Luckily,
Speaker 1: I think I just don't. I just don't like talking
Speaker 1: about what's the point then you have to list the
Speaker 1: twenty things you didn't succeed in, so I can respect that.
Speaker 1: But you are saying you're doing well. There's plenty of
Speaker 1: other things that you're developing. You're just not thoughts about
Speaker 1: it correct And I'm curious do you at this point,
Speaker 1: given Peaky on your resume and so so much more?
Speaker 1: You know, why not do you have like, uh, like
Speaker 1: a the ability to command a Shonda Rhymes Ryan Murphy
Speaker 1: type deal at a streamer? Why why not do one
Speaker 1: of those? I suppose I could it, but that's not
Speaker 1: that's not fun. You know, I'm only as good. You
Speaker 1: know that, Scott Galloway says, you know, successes in the
Speaker 1: agency of others. I'm only as good as the people
Speaker 1: that I work with. I'm here in the country, you know,
Speaker 1: having every day I talked to a writer. That's all
Speaker 1: I do pretty much, just writer, writer, writer, right, So
Speaker 1: I'm good at that. I'm really good at that. So
Speaker 1: I know what I'm good at, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to have to put myself in any other position where
Speaker 1: someone else tells me that they wanted or they don't
Speaker 1: want it. It's not fun. This is fun, you know,
Speaker 1: really fun, especially since I started in the theater. That's
Speaker 1: why I'm here as I have a theater background in
Speaker 1: England and it's an incredibly exciting time to be, uh,
Speaker 1: someone who's you know, able to do what she wants. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, the Shonda Rhymes way is one type of
Speaker 1: pay day. Another thing that we're seeing right now is
Speaker 1: production companies attracting all sorts of investment, you know, the
Speaker 1: private equity world rolls up. Is that a place we
Speaker 1: could see you strike it rich? Yeah? Sure, as long
Speaker 1: as I'm extant, as long as there's there's a version
Speaker 1: of CMP in there that is allowed to operate, wouldn't
Speaker 1: that be wonderful? So that's what everyone all independence hope
Speaker 1: for obviously, So it was just you're actively out there
Speaker 1: trying to make that kind of deal. No, but I'm
Speaker 1: I'm happy if anyone. If my phone rang, I'd be
Speaker 1: really happy to answer it. Well, I think as long
Speaker 1: as you continue to crank out hits like Peaky, the
Speaker 1: phone will thank you. Ringing, Thank you, Karen, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for taking the time out today to talk
Speaker 1: to me. It's my pleasure. Come and visit, will do. Thanks? Okay, bye,
Speaker 1: bye bye. This has been another episode of Strictly Business.
Speaker 1: Tune in next week for another helping of scintillating conversation
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