1 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast where 2 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: we speak with some of the brightest minds working in 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with variety. Peaky 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: Blinders just kicked off its final season on Netflix in 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: the US, but fear not, fans, this show is going 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: to live on via brand extensions far beyond the usual merch. 7 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: We're talking stage production, virtual reality, even a ballet. That's 8 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: just the beginning of the unusual business model employed by 9 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: my guest today producer Karen Mandebach. More with her in 10 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: just a moment. My guest today is Karen Mandebach, one 11 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: of the executive producers of Peaky Blinders and so much more. 12 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: Her name is well known to any student of TV history, 13 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: with credits including TV mega hits like The Cosby Show, Roseanne, 14 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: That Seventies Show, just to name a few of what 15 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: she's produced with former partners Marcy Carcy and Tom Warner. 16 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Karen, Hey, Thanks Andy, Thanks for 17 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: having me great So let's I want to start with 18 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: the basics, because you are unique in the TV landscape 19 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: as a true independent, but I want to make sure 20 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: people understand what exactly that means. So walk us through 21 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: your arrangement. All right, Well, I started in the business 22 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: with Marcy actually, who hired me, having left ABC a 23 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: long before Dirt a long time ago, and she was 24 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: going to be an independent She's I was the first 25 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: person she hired because I was already a producer, which 26 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: was weird of course, because I was a woman and 27 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: young at that time. She then wanted Tom to join her, 28 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: so I was actually hired before Tom. But that was 29 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: the India of all indies, you know. We ended up 30 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: being so fortunate that it was the right time, but 31 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: also we were good And Marcio used to say that Eisner, 32 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: who was earlier than her boss, just wanted one hitti 33 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,839 Speaker 1: or just give me one hittie or and it's not there, 34 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,679 Speaker 1: find it? What is it? It's missing? It should be there. 35 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: So that was the training is to be independent. And 36 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: then we saw the writing on the wall in UH 37 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: after the finn Sin ruling. For all the kids out 38 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: there who don't know what that is, a long long 39 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: time ago, the network the networks, having no experience in 40 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: producing things themselves, decided what a good idea, will take 41 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: a chance at it. This is around the time that 42 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 1: we were doing Third Rock from the Sun, and I 43 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: actually have a T shirt that says I survived fourteen 44 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: time Slot moves Third Rock from the Sun because because 45 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: they used us to build up their nascent offerings, fourteen 46 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: of which didn't work. So we were used to being 47 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,119 Speaker 1: uh kind of an independent and then used where the 48 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: networks themselves to buttress their own efforts. Having had that, 49 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: Marcy went her way, Tom with his I left him. 50 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: I did Nurse Jackie as an independent. I had a 51 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: deal with lions Gate, which six weeks later God nursed 52 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: Jackie just popped right out. It was great, Bob, it 53 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: was wonderful. And then uh, I took that sort of 54 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: idea of the business model. It was my I p 55 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: Actually the real nurse Jackie was my god daughter who cared. 56 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: But true story, and um, yeah, so I saw the 57 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 1: I piqued to them. They were great lions game. It 58 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: was great. And then I thought, what a good idea. 59 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 1: I'll just move to England because they'll let me. I've 60 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: gone to school here, I have friends here, and they'll 61 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: let me. You know, they'll let me be an independent 62 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: because we were sort of oh you know, they'd say 63 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: they wanted Sony or or somebody to be one of 64 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: their arms dealers as it is. No, they really didn't. 65 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: It was like my show, your show, my show, your show. 66 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: Well your show is better, but it is my show. 67 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: There were no indies. Within a minute we were run 68 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: out of so here in England they were extremely open 69 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: to it. It was the business model it still is 70 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: and it's a very healthy ecosystem. So how that works. 71 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: As you invest your own money, you go to the bank, 72 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: much as I remember Marcy had to mortgage your house 73 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: to set up the Cosby Show in um in New York. 74 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: So I did the same. I didn't mortage my house, 75 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: but I moved and then got lucky. That's the second thing. 76 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: I gotta get lucky. Invest your own money, then get lucky. 77 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: And I guess you got lucky stumbling upon Peaky Blinders. Uh, 78 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: talk about how that came to light? How you how 79 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: did you get that show going? Well, it wasn't it 80 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: wasn't anything you know, complicated, Steve Knight. I guess looked 81 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,239 Speaker 1: at our background, having once been a comedy producer himself, 82 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: and decided to that myself and the guy who actually 83 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: does the work, Jamie glazebrook Um We're perfectly good for 84 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 1: this project. He pitched. Actually two projects we went to 85 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: and Mensa, who is a buyer now at net like 86 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: she was at the BBC at the time. She said 87 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: to Steve, which one you want to do first? He said, 88 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: I want to do Peeky Blondess first. She said great, 89 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: She commissioned it and then she left to go to 90 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: Sky the next day on Southern you have it. And 91 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: then six months later, um, you know we got a 92 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: green light. Now what was it about a show about 93 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: turn of the century gangsters that was to use something 94 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: to bet on? What? What was it about this intellectual 95 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: property that you had such faith in. I believe that 96 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: the outsider is the person that we should talk about most, 97 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: the person who wants something that and is not currently represented. 98 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: That's whether that's a middle class black man or an 99 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: overweight white working class lady. Neither of those people or 100 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: those images that are appeared on television or in a 101 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: funny way that seventy shows representative it. You know who's 102 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: I remember the distribution guy saying to me, well, Fox 103 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: just got baseball, you better do eighteen to forty nine 104 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: year old men, And I said, well, there's no such 105 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: is eighteen to forty nine year old men. You know, 106 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: there's only like eighteen year old men and forty nine 107 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: year old event So I did the math and that's 108 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: how the seventy shows. But they weren't represented at the time. 109 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: That kind of kids today, So whatever generally isn't on 110 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: And if they're outsiders, no one cares about them. It's 111 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: the people who aren't there, and certainly the men who 112 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: have been um so traumatized by the war. And that's 113 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: how that continues through time. You know, my dad bought 114 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: in World War two and he still hung his thing up, 115 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: but he wouldn't talk about it. So's it's every outsider 116 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: recognizes every other outsider. So that's the trick, Peaky and 117 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,559 Speaker 1: also to Steve's having written the most extraordinary, dirty Pretty 118 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: Things in Eastern Promises. You know, you'd have to be 119 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: an idiot not to note how radis. Yes, that great, 120 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: that was David Cronenberg. That who did that movie. Um So, 121 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: talking about outsiders, you were a real outsider in the 122 00:06:55,200 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: UK despite all your success in the US. What how 123 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: on earth were you able to get traction in the 124 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: UK business being a relative unknown? Again, Uh, the intellectual 125 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: environment and the ecosystem was open two people like me. 126 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: I was. I wasn't brit to the extent I needed 127 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: to be, and Um later I actually did, you know, 128 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: past the citizenship test and stuff. But in a in 129 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: a way, I hung out in Britain for so long. 130 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: I'd always bought the rights well before everyone to various 131 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,239 Speaker 1: television shows that were British because I went to school 132 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: here and I felt, especially in comedy, I felt comfortable 133 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: with the language of it. I don't know, I was 134 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: just lucky again, and I think they did respect the 135 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: job of producer. Um, wherever you came from got it. 136 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: So getting back to being an independent, it's safe to 137 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: say that there is no way you could have done 138 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: what you did in the UK here in the US. 139 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: Why is that the So I want you to sort 140 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: of break that down and how the UK has been 141 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: able to sustain uh the independent role well in the 142 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,119 Speaker 1: first place. I believe that the Finnson rule long ago 143 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: was something that the corporations needed because though they had 144 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: technically they didn't do anything. They had. They had one 145 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: show I think I can't remember, maybe it was that 146 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: Civil Shepherd one with Bruce willis that that they actually 147 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: owned and that they actually produced. They didn't have the 148 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: skill set. They were just distributors. So Marci long Ago 149 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: empowered people to be indies. So there was Aaron's belly. 150 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: She empowered those people. She empowered Susan to do Golden Girls. 151 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: This was these were not production companies. So then conceptually 152 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 1: production companies indies became really popular because they did the work. 153 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: They really did all the work. Everyone well, my ageny 154 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,719 Speaker 1: will will remember corporations into the work less moonvest Ran 155 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: Warners at the time, and he had eleven shows on 156 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: and only one in the top ten. I had three 157 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: shows on and they were one, two and three. You know, 158 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: sure for a long time because you're focusing on the 159 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: one thing, which is the work. You know. And as 160 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: much as you admire corporations now in the UK, there 161 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: was always a culture because don't forget it's there, money 162 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: making corporation. They're just there. You signed a check if 163 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: you want to be part of the the ecosystem that 164 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: gets so much money, so much um benefit for their money. 165 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: I personally would pay for BBC just for Radio four. 166 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: You know, you get radio, you get TV, you get supports, 167 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: you get everything from the BBC for just so it's 168 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: government run and people really really feel strongly it's the 169 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: best brand. You know, people feel super strongly about it. 170 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: Whereas do you really care which corporation does well in 171 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: the over nights? So what about this age that we're 172 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: in now with global streaming services like Netflix where Peaky 173 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 1: Blinders plays in the US and so many other markets. 174 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: Is the independent any more or less advantaged? Uh? In 175 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: this world where you're you're you're playing with companies that 176 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: make the A b c s in the US from 177 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: twenty years ago look like mosquitoes. Yeah, um, I think 178 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: you're I think everyone is struggling to figure out how 179 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: to deal with them and their behemoths, and theyre going 180 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: to give you money and you're grateful on the one hand. 181 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: On the other hand, it's very difficult if you're a 182 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: corporation like Disney is having a problem. Now you know 183 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: everyone's having a problem, So it's difficult, no matter how 184 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: you look at it, um to interface with these behemoths. 185 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: But I'm just I'm just so lucky. It's just astonishing. 186 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: You can't even believe how lucky you work with a distributor. 187 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: I believe Tiger aspect, no Tiger Aspect is not a distributor. 188 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: It's called Bantaja the company h and so they distribute 189 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: the product. But what is distribution? Basically calling up Netflix 190 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: and saying would you like this show? You know, this 191 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: was back in two thousan twelve. Okay, okay. So in 192 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: terms of this new world and the streaming giants that 193 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: run it, there's been increasing talk or frustration with the 194 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: so called cost plus model, getting paid up front not 195 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: getting any back end. How does that sit with you? Not? Well, 196 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: it doesn't sit well with the Jeff Siganski, doesn't sit 197 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: well with Peter Turner, it doesn't sit doesn't kids that 198 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: I grew up. But you know, it's not um. It's 199 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: not easy because you're not incentivized, but it is what 200 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: you've got. And I really truly believe that being an 201 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: indie is the best thing you could possibly be. Right now, 202 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of energy. I'm sure there's 203 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: trouble that there's so much energy coming from the into 204 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: what remains of the independent sector everywhere. And obviously I 205 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: live in Europe, so an hour and a half from now, 206 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: I'm in Amsterdam, you know, in an hour and a 207 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: half from now, you know, you're in Reno, but you 208 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: know it's a it's a larger I mean, apart from Brexit, 209 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: it's a larger community of a lot of independent, brilliant people. 210 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: So back in the day, Roger Corman, you know, it's 211 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: never it's never gonna end being the indeed, so we'll 212 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: face whatever problems we've got in terms of distribution, and 213 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: we'll do it. If we have a hit, we're gonna 214 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: have a hit. Well to that point, I guess my 215 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: question is, how do you know whether you have a 216 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: hit in a world where the streaming services don't necessarily 217 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: give you much of any relevant data to the performance 218 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: of your show. It's just initially, because this all happened 219 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 1: to me at the time it was happening to everybody, 220 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: my timing was great, you know, and lucky as ever, 221 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: how do I know, I think you're you're looking at 222 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: ratings here initially, but then luckily, social media happened at 223 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: the exact same time when Peaky was beginning. So, I mean, 224 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: we have amazing social media stats. We have six million 225 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: Instagram followers we've got and all over the world. Got 226 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: the report from Parade Analytics. It is a stunning example 227 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: of how popular, how much we've affected people and how 228 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: did we know? We got um so much feedback from 229 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: so many important especially artists called us talk to us 230 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: from odd places, you know, really strange. The artists will 231 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: do it for less money than they It was all. 232 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: It all came from the generosity of the spirit of 233 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: the folks that we worked with, and we're lucky to 234 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 1: work with. All of our villains are unbelievable. They didn't 235 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 1: have to you know, do Peaky Bondies. How about the 236 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: music itself, the essence of rock and roll, All those 237 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: deals that we made, No one got paid what they 238 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: should have gotten paid. It was for love and it 239 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: was for It was so that the answer to the question, 240 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: you do good work and a lot of people want 241 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 1: to be associated with you. We'll be back in just 242 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: a minute with more with Karen Mandebak. We're back with 243 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,239 Speaker 1: Karen Mandebak, who was talking to us about this sensation 244 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: that you produced known as Peaky Blinders. Karen, I want 245 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: to talk now about this. I hope you're not offended 246 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: if I call it an aggressive brand extension strategy for 247 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: Peaky Uh. Talk walk us through what your strategy is, 248 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: because it's it's quite interesting. Well, if you were not 249 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: to compare myself in any way to George Lucas, but 250 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: if you if you did create an family at the 251 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: center of what we're talking about, if you did a 252 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: great hit, you didn't. You don't know the manifestations. You 253 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: don't know that there'll be DVDs. You don't know that 254 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: there'll be laser choices. You really you know you don't know, 255 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: but you ask questions. So I just asked everybody, what 256 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: do you think? Because people here in England go to 257 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: Abram Mitzvah dressed up as as a peaky blinder. There 258 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: are weddings right around my neighborhood, all peaky blinder themed. 259 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: They embody the feeling of the peaky blinders so deeply 260 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: the haircuts that you know that. I went to Paris 261 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: the other day and some waiter said to me something 262 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: and I just looked at and said, I bet your 263 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: a peaky blinder. He said, yeah, I am, And he said, 264 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: but if my father ever knew I was talking to you, 265 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: and I said, tell me more. He said, my father 266 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: and I don't speak except for we talked about peaky blinders. 267 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: So so the depth of the appreciation, I mean, the 268 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: social media. UM demands that we've been given by parad 269 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: Analytics are off the charts. They feel it. So what 270 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: does that mean? I don't know. It's a it's a 271 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: great adult not child brand, so we don't aren't going 272 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: to do toys or obviously razor blades. But there there's 273 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: a media. Could be animation, you know, it could it 274 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: could be virtual reality, don't know. Right now, we have 275 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: immersive theater opening in Camden. I think it's gonna be 276 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: a big hit in UM in July. You know what 277 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: I mean by mercive theater sort of interacted? Explain a bit. 278 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: Is UM the the improvisational acting community which I was 279 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: a part long, long, long time ago. UH invites you 280 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: to this. This is Encampden. It's a giant former horse 281 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: stable UH grade two listed, so you know, don't take 282 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: it down. UH. And you come and you give us 283 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: your money, and then actors invite you in and then 284 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: you don't know what's happening to you. But you're improvising 285 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: with actors and they're going to take you through a 286 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: peaky blinders experience. And more than that, you needn't know 287 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: because if we're not telling our secrets. But fans of 288 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: the show will be it's kind of like going to 289 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: Disneyland and being a pirate. Wow. I mean, but where 290 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: does an idea like that even come from to do that? 291 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: The theater community and uh, you know, also where does 292 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: the idea we're doing the ball around? Their dance company 293 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: is doing a Peaky Blinders dance. Uh, and you know, 294 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: we can't call it bale. It's a dance performance all 295 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 1: over England and starting in Birmingham and then hopefully all 296 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: over the world, so that in that case it doesn't 297 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: sound like it's the execution on that particular I P. 298 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: Does that not originate with you? Do? They come to 299 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: you and you license, and they come to us and 300 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: we say it should go a little like this, and 301 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: then we look at their work and we just thank them. 302 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: If there are so many talented people that want some 303 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: kind of don't forget it's it's like a four quad thing. 304 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: Everyone likes it, men, women, young, old, you know, everyone 305 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: who's got Netflix basically and BBC I Player here. So 306 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: it's an incredibly deep experience. They really feel in it. 307 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: I don't know how to explain it. I really wish 308 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: because it's like magical thinking to a certain extent, I 309 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: want to feel like they feel they really feel it 310 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: deeply if you read, you know, just this districts on 311 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: the on the data about how people are experienced it. 312 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: They love it, and it's because they want to. They 313 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: want to embody the difficulty and the and the joy 314 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 1: of trying to be aspirational in today's society. So are 315 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: all these extensions of people coming into you and saying, hey, 316 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: we want to do X or does it ever flow 317 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: the other way where you guys say, hey, we have 318 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: an idea for this, let's go find someone to execute. 319 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: It's mostly the former, um because because it's really difficult 320 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: to get your brand extended in any meaningful way. And 321 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: so yeah, we we go to well, obviously do the 322 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: movie and TV stenofs, that's us, but it's the that's 323 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: what you'd expect. But the other stuff is so um 324 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: important because people really feel it, and you've got to 325 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: honor that. It's a two way thing. Now, virtual reality 326 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: and peaky Blinders. How do these two come together? I 327 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: can't even I don't know, I don't know. We're just 328 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: at the beginning stages. Who knows. Do you even understand it? 329 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I talked to Matthew Bob. He 330 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: speaks to me, and I'm like, I don't what is 331 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: he saying? But I do vaguely understand the concept. And 332 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: it's the universe. You want to embody, you're playing a role, 333 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: and it's um. I'm not saying it's biblical, like you know, 334 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: the Magi Christmas Pageant, but it does have it has 335 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: a deeper meaning too. Well. Everybody fits into the universe 336 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: in a way. I know. I'm at Polly for sure. 337 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: So from a business model perspective, it doesn't sound as 338 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: if all these extensions are sort of, you know, critical 339 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: to making the best profit you can off the show. 340 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: It almost sounds more like it's gravy, like it's happenstance. 341 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: Is that fair to say? I don't know. I don't know. Again, 342 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: as George Lucas worked up for him, but in the 343 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: because you know, he borrowed money from his friend Franciscopola 344 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: in order to do movie too, So I really don't. 345 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: I don't know how it's going to turn out. We 346 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: all are in on chartered Waters, aren't we, all of us. Well, 347 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: let let me put it this way. It's not as 348 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: if when Peaky Blinders first started, you said, okay, okay, 349 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: so this is something that just sort of it happened, 350 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, you know, we're just responding to 351 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 1: whatever is happening on earth right now. We just are 352 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 1: very lucky that I own the I P. And there's 353 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: I mean there's more. There's jewelry, clothing themed barber shops 354 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: and pubs. Well, now, the Bushmills one is interesting because 355 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: there was some legal action around that. You know, you 356 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: had other beverage producers that went of their own accord 357 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: to make well were they naughty? I want you to 358 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: walk through the legal issues here because I think to 359 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: them they didn't feel as if, because Peaky Blinders is 360 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: sort of a piece of UK history, that they felt 361 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: they needed to even get your permission to do that. 362 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: And I gather you disagree, Yeah we did and we won. 363 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: But um, I don't know. The legal technicalities are everywhere. 364 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: If you walk around in London, there's a place called 365 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: Perky Blenders, you know, the coffee place. So it's it's 366 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: being it's being usurped in every possible way. The specifics 367 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: of the bush miose things I don't know. All I 368 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: know is, uh, you can get some Irish whiskey because 369 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 1: that's what Tommy Shelby drank. Okay um, I mean, let's 370 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: put it this way. Do you have people accountants whispering 371 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: in your ear that you know, if all these brand 372 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: extensions go, well, this could be you know, like the 373 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,479 Speaker 1: like the syndication money train of old or hey, this 374 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: is just a little incremental profits and enjoy it. Like gosh, 375 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: I wish I knew, But we feel so passionately about 376 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: honoring Steve's vision. It really is an important thing. And 377 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: you know, we get a call at the very beginning, 378 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: we got a call from Snoop Dogg who said he 379 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: just really respond to it, like really right. You know, 380 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: then you start to understand it does have meaning to 381 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: everybody who feels that there or Lebron you know, there's 382 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: there's an odd um kind of it's the number one 383 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: showing Brazil, you know. Yeah, so you get you get 384 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: a sense of how meaningful it is to people, and 385 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: you honor that and whether or not it's remunerative. To 386 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: be honest, it never happened to me before. I have 387 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: no idea. Now I'm surprised that whether it's Netflix or BBC, 388 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: that they're not trying to sort of dick wolf this 389 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 1: concept and do you know Peaky two and Peaky Los 390 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: Angeles or I mean any of that brewing? No, okay, 391 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: but why dude? I think it's because the the truth 392 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: of it comes from uh people like us who who 393 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: have done the work, and they're just looking at it 394 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: like a corporate decision. You know, we're we're very interested 395 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: in maximizing every bit of profit of is like, but 396 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: we have to do it because we feel it. We 397 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: have to do because it's the right thing in the 398 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: right time, in the right place and the right era 399 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: and the right Is it Boston or if we do 400 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: did it in America, would it be I don't know 401 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: where the gypsies and what's the all another the creative 402 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: leads of business? Okay, but you know when you mentioned 403 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: something like it's number one in Brazil? Could we see 404 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm sure some of your hit shows 405 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: from back in the day have been recreated in a 406 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: you know, localized kind of way. No they haven't. They haven't, Okay, 407 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 1: but but you know what I mean, other sitcoms certainly have. 408 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: Could we see a you know, I don't know Brazilian, 409 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: but Portuguese Peaky Blind. I mean I could, I could 410 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: give them the rights, Yes, I could. I know. Uh Turkey, 411 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, it asked for the rights 412 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: at one point. But I would have to also work 413 00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: with the suppliers myself too, because we have to honor 414 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: the essence of the brand. It's very difficult. You know, 415 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: comedy doesn't travel. I'm sure you know that. But they 416 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: laugh out in Spain. Uh, they don't laugh in Italy. 417 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,479 Speaker 1: But in that's why comedy it's a shame because everybody 418 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: is trying to cost cut, and comedy would have been 419 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: a good way to cost cut, you know, because it 420 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: doesn't cost that much. But to make sure you've got 421 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: the essence of peaking in the language whatever it's going 422 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: to be, and in the the cultural referencing is really important, 423 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: because I don't forget it was also in the context 424 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: was very important Peaky between the wars. Sure, now you 425 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: guys are going to be doing a movie, right the 426 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 1: other ware negotiations? Yeah, okay, So again you're this independent 427 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: and you've explained how that's worked in the TV world. 428 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: Is it a different set of challenges in the film world, 429 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: it's pretty much the same. It's pretty much the same. 430 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: It's a different set of rights and a different set 431 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: of of protections, and it's all very but much about well, 432 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: you know, Netflix's business models, so in the case of 433 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 1: negotiating with Netflix, so it's an incredibly challenging time, but 434 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: so what you know, it's a lot of fun. And 435 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: since I'm an independent, there's just it's just another challenge 436 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: and it's I really do like the buying community too. 437 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: I think there's some really good operators in there. So, um, 438 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: I genuinely feel like optimistic about the build thing. Well, 439 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: I'm curious about your optimism in a world where you know, 440 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: the global economy is starting to look pretty dim and 441 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: we could see content spending that is obviously astronomical right 442 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: now start to pull back. Does any of that discourage you? 443 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: It does? But where I am to a certain extent, 444 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: you know, they still have tax credits, so whatever I 445 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: spent I back. There's there are ways around that where 446 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: you don't get hurt. If you're an indie, you don't 447 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: wake as much money, but you don't get hurt, whereas 448 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: in corporation the whole thing, I mean, you know, Disney 449 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 1: hasn't even announced its international straft g since they decided 450 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: is streaming, they're they're they're far more confused than I am. 451 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: I have a proposition. Do you want it? How much 452 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: do you want to pay for it? Okay? And you know, 453 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: Peaky was done pretty well in terms of the way 454 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: we spent I'm extremely proud of our production. Extremely We 455 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: didn't spend the kind of money anywhere near the kind 456 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: of money that you think we did considering its cinematic value. 457 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: Like I said, we got a lot of We've got 458 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: a lot of and love for every one of our 459 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: directors love and every one of our actors loved. So 460 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: you can you can dine out a lot on if 461 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: you have the right kind of product. You want cultural 462 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to cost that much. You just want 463 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: cultural impact. So we're we're talking at a time where 464 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: Peaky is at its peak, and so I'm curious what 465 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 1: that means for you in terms of, you know, do 466 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: you have other shows set up out there that maybe 467 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: have nothing to do with Peaky? What's coming next for you? Sure, 468 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: We've got a ton of things in the pipeline, and 469 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: it's it's an incredibly Like I said to me, it's 470 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 1: a great time to be an indie. You can call 471 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: your own shots. And I feel like we don't need 472 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: to prove anything. We're great at producing. That's what we do. 473 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 1: That's all we do. I don't have another job. I'm 474 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: not an actor, you know. I don't have another job, 475 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: not a director. I'm I'm a long term producer, and 476 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: I know what it means. And I so respect people 477 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: in the community, whether they're in the movie business or 478 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: the television business, that have taken the road I've taken 479 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: because it's pretty nutty. It's like alchemy. It's weird. But 480 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: when you say it's a great time to be an indie, 481 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: I would imagine some people would really scratch their heads 482 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: and say, in this consolidated world, how could that be true? 483 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: Because you need a hit, and hits are going to 484 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: come not just from within walled gardens of giants. Correct. 485 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: You gotta you know, we developed to a certain extent. Uh, 486 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: you gotta get lucky. Like I said, You've got to 487 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: know it when you see it. But nobody is throwing 488 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: anything up against the wall and hoping that it sticks. 489 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: You know, Everything that we do is really thought out 490 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: with the buyer in mind. Okay, And so speaking of 491 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 1: buyers do you have You have different irons in the 492 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: fire now, But is there any one project you could 493 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: talk about that's farthest along and development? That's I never 494 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: talked about development never really ever, I've never talked about it. 495 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: It's not on any because it's well, it's sort of bad. Luckily, 496 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: I think I just don't. I just don't like talking 497 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: about what's the point then you have to list the 498 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: twenty things you didn't succeed in, so I can respect that. 499 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: But you are saying you're doing well. There's plenty of 500 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: other things that you're developing. You're just not thoughts about 501 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: it correct And I'm curious do you at this point, 502 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: given Peaky on your resume and so so much more? 503 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: You know, why not do you have like, uh, like 504 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: a the ability to command a Shonda Rhymes Ryan Murphy 505 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: type deal at a streamer? Why why not do one 506 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: of those? I suppose I could it, but that's not 507 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: that's not fun. You know, I'm only as good. You 508 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: know that, Scott Galloway says, you know, successes in the 509 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: agency of others. I'm only as good as the people 510 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,479 Speaker 1: that I work with. I'm here in the country, you know, 511 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: having every day I talked to a writer. That's all 512 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: I do pretty much, just writer, writer, writer, right, So 513 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: I'm good at that. I'm really good at that. So 514 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: I know what I'm good at, and I don't want 515 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: to have to put myself in any other position where 516 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: someone else tells me that they wanted or they don't 517 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: want it. It's not fun. This is fun, you know, 518 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: really fun, especially since I started in the theater. That's 519 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: why I'm here as I have a theater background in 520 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: England and it's an incredibly exciting time to be, uh, 521 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: someone who's you know, able to do what she wants. Well, 522 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: you know, the Shonda Rhymes way is one type of 523 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: pay day. Another thing that we're seeing right now is 524 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: production companies attracting all sorts of investment, you know, the 525 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: private equity world rolls up. Is that a place we 526 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: could see you strike it rich? Yeah? Sure, as long 527 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: as I'm extant, as long as there's there's a version 528 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: of CMP in there that is allowed to operate, wouldn't 529 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: that be wonderful? So that's what everyone all independence hope 530 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: for obviously, So it was just you're actively out there 531 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: trying to make that kind of deal. No, but I'm 532 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: I'm happy if anyone. If my phone rang, I'd be 533 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: really happy to answer it. Well, I think as long 534 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: as you continue to crank out hits like Peaky, the 535 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: phone will thank you. Ringing, Thank you, Karen, Thank you 536 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: so much for taking the time out today to talk 537 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: to me. It's my pleasure. Come and visit, will do. Thanks? Okay, bye, 538 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: bye bye. This has been another episode of Strictly Business. 539 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: Tune in next week for another helping of scintillating conversation 540 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: with media movers and shakers, and please make sure you 541 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: subscribe to the podcast to hear future episodes. 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