Speaker 1: This is the most traumatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, Chris Harrison coming to you today with a
Speaker 1: very interesting show. I have heard these stories about Nick Thompson.
Speaker 1: He was a contestant on season two of Love Is Blind.
Speaker 1: Seemingly he had a really good journey. To use an
Speaker 1: old catchphrase of mind, the show went well. He met
Speaker 1: this woman, Danielle, they fell in love, they got married.
Speaker 1: But then it all changed and these articles started coming
Speaker 1: out about some interviews he had given that he and Danielle,
Speaker 1: the woman he married and fell in love with on
Speaker 1: the show, they got divorced. That's true, but his life
Speaker 1: has been turned upside down. He has since lost his job,
Speaker 1: He has allegedly is on the verge of becoming homeless
Speaker 1: because of all this, and there is this kind of
Speaker 1: war of words of okay, is he mentally healthy? Was
Speaker 1: it the show's fault? Is it production's fault? What is
Speaker 1: going on with this story? And to me, the reason
Speaker 1: it sparks my interest is something's not connecting. I've read
Speaker 1: these stories and if you watch the show and you
Speaker 1: read these articles, it doesn't make sense to me. And
Speaker 1: so I'm a big believer of instead of reading clickbait
Speaker 1: headlines and going through life like that. Let's go to
Speaker 1: the guy himself. Let's go to the source and let's
Speaker 1: talk to Nick Thompson and find out what is true,
Speaker 1: what is fact, and what is fiction. And that's what
Speaker 1: we're going to do today. We're going to get to
Speaker 1: the bottom of this. A very captivating, compelling interview with
Speaker 1: Nick Thompson. And joining me now is Nick Thompson.
Speaker 2: Nick.
Speaker 1: First of all, thanks for the time.
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you. I'm happy to be here. It's nice
Speaker 3: to have an opportunity to meet you and talk to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I really wanted to reach out to you and get
Speaker 1: you on the podcast because I found your story. I
Speaker 1: was really captivated. I read a couple of articles and
Speaker 1: I couldn't quite connect the dots because it seemed that
Speaker 1: I was missing something in this story. And I said, well,
Speaker 1: there's got to be more to this. Because the guy
Speaker 1: we all saw in love is blind. You weren't a villain,
Speaker 1: you weren't cast or portrayed as this bad guy. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's some sort of disconnects. So I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: what's going on with Nick Thompson? And so I'm like,
Speaker 1: let's just go to the source.
Speaker 3: That's a great place to go because I'm sure, as
Speaker 3: you know and I've probably experienced, the media isn't always telling.
Speaker 2: The full story.
Speaker 3: Ye come on, you know it's mind blowing, and hey,
Speaker 3: then to past a clickbaity headline is way too much
Speaker 3: to ask for a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Ye I've dealt with That's okay. I've dealt with more
Speaker 1: than two or three of those.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what, I think. I know you have too,
Speaker 3: I've seen them.
Speaker 2: I have.
Speaker 3: I think it's funny because you see like attention span shortening,
Speaker 3: but then you see things like podcasts and long form
Speaker 3: conversations sort of growing in popularity. So it's like a
Speaker 3: weird disconnect for me. So we could have this nice
Speaker 3: conversation here and you know, get the whole story, but
Speaker 3: people also don't want to click past a headline. It's
Speaker 3: such a unique dynamic.
Speaker 1: You're right. I mean, as the TikTok world or Instagram
Speaker 1: whatever reels world has captivated us, I think more and
Speaker 1: more of us have also railed against it, whether it's
Speaker 1: the you know, I think Joe Rogan kind of broke
Speaker 1: that mold of like, no, I'm just going to go
Speaker 1: do my own show. And I know when I went
Speaker 1: through what I went through, I wish I had followed
Speaker 1: that kind of Rogan Chappelle model where I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: just going to go tell my own story in long form,
Speaker 1: like you said, where there's no there's no headline, there's
Speaker 1: no clickbait. It is amazing to me the things that
Speaker 1: get put up in a headline and that are okay,
Speaker 1: and then if you actually read the story and you
Speaker 1: get to the fourth paragraph, you realize there's no meat
Speaker 1: to this. So it is it's just one more thing
Speaker 1: you have to battle in this world. But you know,
Speaker 1: so be.
Speaker 2: It's it's so true.
Speaker 3: And I heard you talking about that on your show
Speaker 3: that dropped yesterday actually where you guys were talking about
Speaker 3: Caitlin and Jason, and yeah, you know, just one thing
Speaker 3: you said, by the way, I just really stuck with me,
Speaker 3: was you were you said that I don't leave the
Speaker 3: comment if it's not contributing good to the world or
Speaker 3: something along those lines. And I just want to say, like,
Speaker 3: we're all human beings, and the amount of people who
Speaker 3: read a headline about me last week and have decided
Speaker 3: that they were going to use that as an opportunity
Speaker 3: to be cruel, which you know, those things don't bother me,
Speaker 3: but you know, it's just like look in the mirror
Speaker 3: a little bit and read past the headline and try
Speaker 3: and understand what's actually going on, because we're all human beings.
Speaker 3: Like you're a human being, I'm a human being. We
Speaker 3: all just have some of our stuff public.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, when I was going through the
Speaker 1: Bachelor and Bacherette world, it was this new adventure for me,
Speaker 1: but it's this. It was the same profession and so
Speaker 1: I had this assent in this business for thirty years.
Speaker 1: I had been a sportscaster. I cut my teeth in
Speaker 1: local news and was a journalist. Then you know, people
Speaker 1: saw the top five percent when I became the host
Speaker 1: of The Bachelor. I've been doing this a long time,
Speaker 1: so it was nothing new for me to hear people
Speaker 1: chirping from you know, the back row. But when you
Speaker 1: are Nick Thompson, when you are Caitlin Bristow or Jason
Speaker 1: Tartick and you just come on this show, it's hard.
Speaker 1: And I try to prepare people, but it's hard for
Speaker 1: people to understand when you are essentially shot out of
Speaker 1: a cannon. You know, and people will say, oh, Nick,
Speaker 1: you signed up for this. Well, yes, but you also
Speaker 1: probably didn't quite understand until you got into it exactly
Speaker 1: what you signed up for. Is that accurate?
Speaker 3: That's one hundred percent accurate. And you know, for you know,
Speaker 3: one of the examples I share with love is blind,
Speaker 3: is I signed up. For example, I knew I was
Speaker 3: giving away my phone and my connection to the internet,
Speaker 3: my connection to family and friends for three weeks if
Speaker 3: I made it, you know, into the engagement portion. And
Speaker 3: what I didn't know is that I wouldn't be able
Speaker 3: to like leave a hotel room, or I wouldn't be
Speaker 3: able to get food or water at my discretion. So
Speaker 3: there's things like that that people you know, and they
Speaker 3: look and I wonder what it is. It's probably a
Speaker 3: little jealousy, probably a little projection, but it is like
Speaker 3: even if you think, Okay, I'm not going to be
Speaker 3: able to eat and drink water, you know, at my discretion,
Speaker 3: do you know how your body's going to react to that?
Speaker 3: Do you know how your mind's going to react to that?
Speaker 3: Do you know how the imbalances and your hormones, Like,
Speaker 3: there's just so many things that you can't put in
Speaker 3: a contract or put on paper.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: One of the things I find interesting and I always
Speaker 1: found this the study of human behavior fascinating when I
Speaker 1: was hosting the show for so many decades. And I
Speaker 1: know Love is Blind is no different, as all these
Speaker 1: shows are somewhat similar in their approach. What I find
Speaker 1: fascinating is when you take away Nick's defense mechanisms, the
Speaker 1: things that you rely on every day. We all have
Speaker 1: things that we do, whether you know it or not
Speaker 1: or pay attention to. Maybe you call your brother, maybe
Speaker 1: you call your mom, Maybe you go work out and
Speaker 1: you hit a punching bag, maybe whatever your spin class.
Speaker 1: The things that we do that relieve that stress and tension,
Speaker 1: so we don't have to just live in our feelings
Speaker 1: in emotion all the time. So on one level, it
Speaker 1: is very healthy because you have to deal with yourself.
Speaker 1: You can't go on your phone, you can't get relief
Speaker 1: from this. But at the same time, it's a tough
Speaker 1: place to be if you're not used to that and
Speaker 1: you're not prepared for it.
Speaker 3: That's so well said. I couldn't agree more. And that's
Speaker 3: one thing when people I talk to, some people who
Speaker 3: are thinking about a show or have been cast in
Speaker 3: a show, and you know, they ask, well, what's it like?
Speaker 3: What do I need to prepare for? Is this something
Speaker 3: I should do? And I don't ever tell people what
Speaker 3: to do, but I share my experience. And one of
Speaker 3: the things I say is is similar to you. It's
Speaker 3: you're in your everyday life and then you're you're taking
Speaker 3: Like me, I take a walk every morning. That is
Speaker 3: very important to me to clear my head, get you know,
Speaker 3: my my chemicals balanced, my certificating clock super important to me.
Speaker 3: That was taken away from me. I intermittent fast. My
Speaker 3: schedule for eating used to be between like noon and seven,
Speaker 3: and here it was just like all over the place.
Speaker 3: And that you know, that impects your gut, it impects
Speaker 3: your body, it impects your mind. And then the working out,
Speaker 3: like there wasn't a lot of opportunity to work out,
Speaker 3: and that's something I do five six times a week.
Speaker 3: So it is that that whole, that whole process, and
Speaker 3: that whole entire sort of template you put around your
Speaker 3: life or structure you put around your life that is
Speaker 3: just completely stripped away. So even those tiny little things
Speaker 3: that happen in a day that help keep you clear
Speaker 3: or or help make you feel better.
Speaker 2: Those are just.
Speaker 1: Golf and you know, and by no means do I
Speaker 1: mean to attack the you know, Love is Blind producers.
Speaker 1: I don't know them and I wasn't on the set.
Speaker 1: And in their defense, just because I know the other side,
Speaker 1: they're also just doing their job. They're like, we just
Speaker 1: need Nick ready to go at eight o'clock, nine o'clock whatever,
Speaker 1: and oh, we're behind schedules, so they're not even thinking about, oh,
Speaker 1: I know Nick needs to get up and like get
Speaker 1: his exercise to be healthy and to do now. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like they're just You're an employee essentially at that time.
Speaker 1: So my I guess my question is when you came
Speaker 1: into it, what were you expecting? And then how did
Speaker 1: it turn out that was so great, that made such
Speaker 1: an impact in your.
Speaker 3: Life, So that it's so interesting because I didn't know
Speaker 3: what to expect. I actually didn't really watch much reality TV.
Speaker 3: I watched Nick Vile season ironically from the Bachelor, and
Speaker 3: that's probably the only non competition reality show that I watched.
Speaker 3: And I only watched that too, just because we were
Speaker 3: doing one of those tournament brackets at work.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, I want to be a part of that.
Speaker 3: So so you know, I didn't have a lot of experience,
Speaker 3: and you know, they actually reached out to me through LinkedIn,
Speaker 3: where you know, that was where I had most of
Speaker 3: my social media presence other than my Instagram dog photos.
Speaker 3: But but you know when they when they came to me,
Speaker 3: I was kind of like, I was really uneducated about
Speaker 3: the industry. I was really uneducated about the process. So
Speaker 3: what did I do? I went and watched Love Is
Speaker 3: Blind season one, and I was like, oh, like, this
Speaker 3: is different. This isn't you know about people you know,
Speaker 3: as my dad would say, people hooking up in hot
Speaker 3: tubs when he heard I was on the show, It's
Speaker 3: what he thought it was. So it was, you know,
Speaker 3: it was like very genuine and had this authenticity to it,
Speaker 3: and the people that were on and had this authenticity
Speaker 3: to them and this realness of them that I didn't necessarily,
Speaker 3: you know, right or wrong, I didn't necessarily think of
Speaker 3: reality shows in that way. So first and foremost like
Speaker 3: just going on the set, like I had no idea
Speaker 3: that we would be filming or working for eighteen hours
Speaker 3: a day, twenty hours a day, again without any structure
Speaker 3: of your normal life, without you know, the access to
Speaker 3: the things that you want to eat and you want
Speaker 3: to drink. And so that part to me was pretty shocking,
Speaker 3: and I actually had a physical reaction. I got a
Speaker 3: migrain on day three just from I think the chaos
Speaker 3: of all of it. I didn't drink that much on
Speaker 3: the show because I was not going to be making
Speaker 3: drunk decisions about who I married. So it was it
Speaker 3: was really it was really just sort of like overwhelming
Speaker 3: and all consuming with that. And then to your point earlier,
Speaker 3: when you do get a few minutes of or a
Speaker 3: few hours back at your hotel room, like you are,
Speaker 3: you were just sitting in your emotions. I write a lot,
Speaker 3: and I was writing in my journal every opportunity I got,
Speaker 3: because it was just trying to make sense of it all.
Speaker 3: Dating fifteen people. They you know, it's like for seven
Speaker 3: minutes at a time, it's just it's so much and
Speaker 3: all consuming, and you just don't anticipate that.
Speaker 1: And so what I found interesting is if you watch
Speaker 1: the show, if you're just a fan, you watched it,
Speaker 1: you're thinking, oh man, this guy really cruised through this.
Speaker 1: It was a really good experience for him. He actually
Speaker 1: found love. I mean, it was successful. So's that to
Speaker 1: me is maybe the disconnect for a lot of people
Speaker 1: when they're seeing some of these headlines of like this
Speaker 1: guy crushed it. Like you know, say you were on
Speaker 1: the Bachelor and you were quote unquote the villain and
Speaker 1: you got the bad at it, so to speak. But
Speaker 1: that wasn't you. So I guess explained to us, where
Speaker 1: is that disconnect where this was not a good experience
Speaker 1: for you although it looks to us like it was. So.
Speaker 3: One of the things that I realized so last year
Speaker 3: was I don't even think I've said that last year
Speaker 3: was the worst year of my life. Like I by
Speaker 3: the end of the year, I was like, I don't
Speaker 3: want anything to do with any of this anymore. I
Speaker 3: wish I would give anything to go back to my
Speaker 3: life before Love is Blind. And as I started reflecting,
Speaker 3: you know, I started asking my qu why why why?
Speaker 3: And you know, I came to this whole concept in
Speaker 3: my mind that while I went through this, I was
Speaker 3: justifying everything that wasn't going well because I found love,
Speaker 3: or I justified the fact that I lost fifteen pounds
Speaker 3: in the first three weeks because I wasn't eating or
Speaker 3: drinking water or the fact that I got such a
Speaker 3: bad migraine that I had to like leave set and
Speaker 3: was vomiting, and like it just like you pushed that
Speaker 3: aside because okay, you did it now saying I crushed it.
Speaker 3: Like I never really thought of it as a competition,
Speaker 3: which I think is the way people look at it, right,
Speaker 3: And people even say that, they're like, oh, man, you
Speaker 3: killed it, you won. I'm like, yeah, well, I didn't
Speaker 3: think of it that way. But you know, for me,
Speaker 3: it was it was really like, how am I going
Speaker 3: to go into this and be myself no matter what,
Speaker 3: not end up in situations in which I wouldn't be
Speaker 3: in real life or in conversations I wouldn't be in
Speaker 3: real life. And that was sort of my my you know,
Speaker 3: foundation to this. And I was completely fine if I
Speaker 3: go and I go home the first day because I
Speaker 3: don't connect with anyone, Cool what an experience, right, Or
Speaker 3: if I get married on it, I'm like, cool, that
Speaker 3: must have been meant to be. And so you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: it went great right from that perspective, And once you
Speaker 3: see on TV and you know, I didn't do anything
Speaker 3: or say anything out of character, so you know, I
Speaker 3: don't have that and I feel and I've spoken to
Speaker 3: people who have been edited into a villain and it
Speaker 3: does it like completely uproots and ruins their entire life.
Speaker 1: First of all, I'm very sorry to hear that when
Speaker 1: someone says that last year was like the worst year
Speaker 1: of my life, I'm sorry to hear that when you
Speaker 1: look back, what was the impetus for that? Like, obviously,
Speaker 1: and I know you'd be like just being on love
Speaker 1: is blind, but what what you know? Go deeper, like,
Speaker 1: what was it that made this such an impactful moment
Speaker 1: in your life, that sparkplug moment in such a bad way,
Speaker 1: in such a negative way? What was that? Like? Where
Speaker 1: did it turn for you?
Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, so it was The show comes out
Speaker 3: in February of last year, right, so you've got, you know,
Speaker 3: the high of.
Speaker 1: Of that, you're doing press, you're probably being because you're
Speaker 1: one of the stars, so you're being flown around and
Speaker 1: doing doing the.
Speaker 3: Dance exactly exactly, and then you know, I got to
Speaker 3: do some things that I never dreamed I would have
Speaker 3: the opportunity to do, and so you know, that's all good,
Speaker 3: But what was going on behind the scenes was my
Speaker 3: marriage was falling apart and we were struggling because we
Speaker 3: were a very polarizing couple for the show, and so
Speaker 3: we were struggling with, you know, our marriage struggles. We
Speaker 3: were struggling with now this is in the public eye,
Speaker 3: We're struggling with all the hate. And you know, I
Speaker 3: didn't get nearly what Danielle got. Danielle got so much hate.
Speaker 3: There were days where she would be so sad and
Speaker 3: so depressed, she wouldn't want to leave the house, she
Speaker 3: wouldn't want to leave the couch, and so, you know,
Speaker 3: we were dealing with with so much stuff behind what
Speaker 3: you see on Love is Blind that it just sort
Speaker 3: of snowballed, and then, you know, we we ended up
Speaker 3: getting divorced. She filed for divorce in August, and that
Speaker 3: was just when things just went insane because I hadn't
Speaker 3: told my family. I wasn't I kind of still thought
Speaker 3: we were going to figure things out. I hadn't told
Speaker 3: my family. I hadn't I told maybe my best couple
Speaker 3: of friends that we were in dire straits. And then
Speaker 3: TMZ leaked this article and that's how my mom found
Speaker 3: out Lovely for example, Lovely Yeah. Yeah, So it's like,
Speaker 3: so that's when it just started like snowballing for me.
Speaker 3: And then there was, you know, the divide obviously of
Speaker 3: people of there's going to be team Nick and Danielle
Speaker 3: even though there shouldn't be, right, but that's how they
Speaker 3: do it. And then you know, they were I opted
Speaker 3: to never talk about it and and really avoid most
Speaker 3: interviews on it because you know, it hurts, it was painful.
Speaker 1: It's a real divorce, it's you were it's a real lore.
Speaker 1: You were really in love, you were really married.
Speaker 2: That's absolutely true. I don't think people think that, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, and it's also you know, it's that's why, you know,
Speaker 1: interesting and ironic that you're coming on right after this
Speaker 1: Jason Tartik and Caitlin Bristow split because I know them
Speaker 1: both very well. I know them intimately, they're they're friends
Speaker 1: of mine, and so yes they were on the show,
Speaker 1: and yes, you know, Nick and Danielle were on the show.
Speaker 1: But I try to tell people these are humans who
Speaker 1: were really married. They really did love each other. And
Speaker 1: another aspect that's really hard for people to understand is
Speaker 1: when you're going through and I've been through a divorce,
Speaker 1: it sucks. Just in general, divorce sucks. It's not fun.
Speaker 1: Breakups are never because things are going great. So you
Speaker 1: get divorced, but then the tabloid of it all, in
Speaker 1: the social media of it all, Danielle's getting things said
Speaker 1: about her and to her. Nick is getting things said
Speaker 1: to you about you about her, and so it almost
Speaker 1: creates these two camps and you start to doubt things
Speaker 1: that you know even it starts, you start to question
Speaker 1: things you actually were sure about.
Speaker 3: If that makes it's like you get gas lid. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it totally does. And I just remember there was, you know,
Speaker 3: and this is where things again, they kept snowballing for months.
Speaker 3: I had a friend who I've been friends with for
Speaker 3: over a decade who's lives in the UK. She's from
Speaker 3: the UK. She spent some time in Chicago. That's when
Speaker 3: we met ten years ago. She came to visit from
Speaker 3: the UK to see her family here and we went
Speaker 3: out to brunch. And this was maybe two a week
Speaker 3: or two after the divorce announcement, and we went we
Speaker 3: went out to brunch. We sat on a patio, not
Speaker 3: even just the two of us, with three two or
Speaker 3: three of my friends were there, and someone saw us
Speaker 3: and started this entire reddit thread about how clearly I
Speaker 3: cheated and this was howhy the marriage ended. And so
Speaker 3: all of a sudden that like later that day, I
Speaker 3: started getting all these dms. You cheated, You're a cheater,
Speaker 3: You're you're ruined this, you're you have a My friend
Speaker 3: started getting hate. They track they somehow tracked her down
Speaker 3: from my social media like five years ago when I
Speaker 3: was in England visiting, and somehow made that didn't make
Speaker 3: the connection that we've been friends for a long time,
Speaker 3: but that instead she was a home wrecker. So she
Speaker 3: started getting all of us hate, and it was just
Speaker 3: I'm just like, my poor friend who who I haven't
Speaker 3: seen in five years, is here and now now unfortunately
Speaker 3: part of this and getting harassed and so like that
Speaker 3: was part of the snowball. And then you know, I
Speaker 3: ended up up losing my job after getting you know,
Speaker 3: pretty much eviscerated in the media for things that I
Speaker 3: did not say and things that I did not do, And.
Speaker 2: So that that happened. That was that was probably the
Speaker 2: worst day.
Speaker 1: So you come out of this and you're you're in marketing,
Speaker 1: you're very successful and you have this great job. So
Speaker 1: you got fired and did they say it is because
Speaker 1: of the press, and we just can't go further with
Speaker 1: you because of what's going on.
Speaker 3: So they were they laid off I think roughly twenty
Speaker 3: five percent of the workforce. And of course they're not
Speaker 3: going to say that's why at the moment, but I
Speaker 3: did have conversations later with people that said, while that
Speaker 3: wasn't the only reason, it was part of the reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And why is that because I was had and I
Speaker 3: had just been promoted a month earlier two so I
Speaker 3: was the VP of product marketing and sales enablement. And
Speaker 3: what that means is I am owning analyst relationships right
Speaker 3: with Gartner and Forrester and the biggest analysts in the world.
Speaker 3: I am going on sales podcasts, I am going on
Speaker 3: press interviews, I am working with the PR agency, and
Speaker 3: I am writing blogs and I am talking to customers.
Speaker 3: And so, when you have a role that's customer facing,
Speaker 3: commercial facing, public facing, when people google you or they
Speaker 3: google your company and you come up when there's that
Speaker 3: mix of here's Nick talking about sales enablement software and
Speaker 3: then you know, here's Nick saying you know, blah blah
Speaker 3: blah happened, or someone saying that Nick cheated or whatever,
Speaker 3: it might be right, it's just a it's a brutal thing,
Speaker 3: and it's a public facing role, so that stuff all matters.
Speaker 3: That stuff impacts me. I even't had my contract for
Speaker 3: Love is Blind amended to say that I could still
Speaker 3: do those work related public speaking and interview. Yeah, because
Speaker 3: that's such a big part of my role.
Speaker 1: And so this story, and again, this is why I
Speaker 1: wanted to just come to the source, this story that
Speaker 1: you are close to being homeless because of this? Is
Speaker 1: that accurate?
Speaker 3: So here, yes, here's yes, it is. So here's the city,
Speaker 3: and what's your definition of homeless? Right, I'm about to
Speaker 3: lose my house. I don't have another house to go
Speaker 3: live in. I don't have another home like am I
Speaker 3: thirty eight and to go live with my parents might
Speaker 3: not have much of a choice, right. But so I
Speaker 3: lost my job in November. I've applied to over four
Speaker 3: hundred jobs. I've probably had twenty twenty five interviews. I've
Speaker 3: had a few of them actually say what I just
Speaker 3: said to you, like, we don't want to risk our
Speaker 3: company on you know, potential headlines or past headlines or
Speaker 3: up until I think last week, if you googled me,
Speaker 3: the negative stuff was the first thing that showed up,
Speaker 3: So it was it's not because those are obviously the
Speaker 3: most clicked over time, so the algorithm is going to
Speaker 3: feed those. So what I did immediately was, you know,
Speaker 3: I had, like you said, been successful. I had saved
Speaker 3: roughly four or five months in savings that I had mark,
Speaker 3: which is what they tell you to do, so that
Speaker 3: I and not everyone has that luxury to save. So
Speaker 3: I'm you know, those are those who don't, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I had that luxury and I had worked hard
Speaker 3: for it, right vp at thirty five? Is I put
Speaker 3: my whole life into my career. Yeah, And so I
Speaker 3: went through my savings and I was like, okay, so
Speaker 3: that was you know, and I took a few weeks
Speaker 3: off and before I started applying, so that that was
Speaker 3: you know, it's traumatizing to get divorced and then lose
Speaker 3: your job in the course of two months.
Speaker 1: That's a lot. That's a lot, man, I had in republic.
Speaker 1: The fact that you're standing in front of me smiling
Speaker 1: says a lot about you and your strength. So kudos
Speaker 1: to you on that.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you, thank you. So then when I realized, okay,
Speaker 3: the savings is plummeting obviously. You know, I live in
Speaker 3: a two bedroom to bath condo in Chicago that I've
Speaker 3: owned since twenty nineteen. Again, worked very hard, saved down payment,
Speaker 3: the whole thing. So is it is it realistic for
Speaker 3: me that I could lose my house?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I cashed out my four to oh one k, which
Speaker 3: gave me you know, another four five months of stuff,
Speaker 3: which you know, you get penalized on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want to draw that down. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: pay the taxes and there goes what you thought you
Speaker 1: were going to have when you were sixty five.
Speaker 3: That's exactly it. And so I cash that out to
Speaker 3: keep paying my mortgage. I do consulting on the side,
Speaker 3: but there's not a lot of investment in that right now.
Speaker 3: In tech, which is my area of expertise. There's tech
Speaker 3: is very tight right now. People are are you know,
Speaker 3: cutting their budgets and obviously layoffs were well known in
Speaker 3: the tech space, so you know, the consulting there, it's there,
Speaker 3: but it isn't consistent. It's not something I can count on,
Speaker 3: you know, much past you know, the week or two
Speaker 3: it's scheduled for. So you know, I am doing that.
Speaker 3: I still apply to jobs. I interview to jobs any
Speaker 3: chance I get.
Speaker 2: Crazy.
Speaker 3: Thing is like you go, and you know, I'm a
Speaker 3: director VP depending on the size of the company level.
Speaker 3: You know, that's my career progression. That's where I'm at,
Speaker 3: and that's something I don't think people take into consideration either.
Speaker 3: But the challenge there is that by the time you plan,
Speaker 3: I spend the first hour or two every day on
Speaker 3: LinkedIn looking for the right types of jobs. It could
Speaker 3: be posted an hour ago and there's three hundred plus
Speaker 3: applicants already, so that you know, the market is just
Speaker 3: oversaturated in tech right now. So that's also contributing to it.
Speaker 3: But the funny thing about that article, and then I'll
Speaker 3: shut up for a minute. The funny thing about that
Speaker 3: article is that headline was one or two lines I
Speaker 3: said in a thirty minute interview, and that's what took off.
Speaker 3: Of course, I was talking about reality stars rights, reality
Speaker 3: stars possibly unionizing residuals, which is where that came up.
Speaker 3: Where I casually tongue in cheek, but you know, accurately,
Speaker 3: I like to make fun of my bad situations to
Speaker 3: keep that smile. But you know, I jokingly said, you know,
Speaker 3: Netflix is making billions of dollars off of Netflix. Anyone
Speaker 3: can go on Netflix and watch me at any given time,
Speaker 3: and I'm going to be homeless.
Speaker 2: I'm going to lose my house. That was the line.
Speaker 1: Sadly, Sadly, I think actually Netflix is losing billions. That's
Speaker 1: the problem, is cards. Yeah, so let's dive into that. Like,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think, how is this avoided? What could
Speaker 1: have been done differently for you, either by production or
Speaker 1: by yourself to have avoided this, or is it just
Speaker 1: I mean, I hate to use the term a comedy
Speaker 1: of airs, but it's kind of like these dominoes just
Speaker 1: fell into place for you that sucked. You know, this
Speaker 1: could have gone so many different ways that wouldn't have
Speaker 1: led to this, and it's just ironic that you found
Speaker 1: love and this is what it led to, which is
Speaker 1: just bizarre.
Speaker 3: Well, hence the worst year of my life.
Speaker 1: Right just like, and again, I don't mean to make
Speaker 1: light of that, because I hate that. I mean, when
Speaker 1: you hear that, it really it hits me in my heart.
Speaker 1: I'm very sorry.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you, you know, I'll be okay. I'll figure
Speaker 3: it out. I always do. I'm pretty i will say,
Speaker 3: like I've learned I'm very resilient. I'm way more resilient
Speaker 3: than I ever thought I could be. And I think
Speaker 3: that is, you know, that's something that thankfully took a
Speaker 3: lot of therapy and a lot of personal growth to
Speaker 3: do that. So it is it's like it's a lot
Speaker 3: of bad dominoes, it's some bad luck, it's it's all
Speaker 3: of it. But when you think about and and you know,
Speaker 3: there's headlines that say I blame Netflix, like I never
Speaker 3: said that, right, Like if I I never said, I said,
Speaker 3: it's the entire situation that's contributing to what my situation is.
Speaker 3: And people don't you know when you're when you're at
Speaker 3: that level I was at my career like and facing
Speaker 3: customers like, people don't The public doesn't take you as
Speaker 3: seriously once you're on a reality show in general, And
Speaker 3: in my case, they knew me for my relationship. They
Speaker 3: didn't know me. They didn't know what I did professionally.
Speaker 3: They don't know what my hobbies were outside of making
Speaker 3: my own toothpaste. They you know, it's so it's like,
Speaker 3: what do they You know? You have this whole life
Speaker 3: that's separate from from the image or the brand that's portrayed,
Speaker 3: but that image of that brand that's portrayed, that's what
Speaker 3: the percess.
Speaker 1: You get boiled down to this and again you go
Speaker 1: back to that Iceberg theory. If you get boiled down
Speaker 1: to that top five percent that people see, and you're like,
Speaker 1: there's so much more to me, my family, my life,
Speaker 1: my beliefs, everything about me that's so true.
Speaker 3: And then you know, I think it's funny too, because
Speaker 3: I mean people are just like, you're just mad you
Speaker 3: couldn't be an influencer, Like do you know how how
Speaker 3: many brand partnerships I said no to because it's in
Speaker 3: align with like my ethics or my values or something
Speaker 3: like that, And then you know people who think so
Speaker 3: I started the u CAN Foundation, which is the Unscripted
Speaker 3: Cast Advocacy Network ucnfoundation dot org for those of you listening.
Speaker 3: That is an organization dedicated to helping reality cast members
Speaker 3: get legal support and mental health support pre during, and
Speaker 3: post show. Because that was my big takeaway is I
Speaker 3: never got that. I asked for it, and I had
Speaker 3: a therapist and God bless her, she still sees me
Speaker 3: for free now because I don't have insurance, so you know,
Speaker 3: I didn't get any support from the show when my
Speaker 3: divorce leaked.
Speaker 1: And I find that interesting because just again, all I
Speaker 1: can think about is the Bachelor. We have a therapist
Speaker 1: on hand, We have somebody there, and we weren't as
Speaker 1: great about it early on, but we still had somebody. Now,
Speaker 1: especially if you ask, yeah, it's it's there. And so
Speaker 1: so that wasn't there for you, It wasn't provided.
Speaker 3: No, and they claim that they do. That's the part,
Speaker 3: and you know that's not just me, right, that's like
Speaker 3: my therapist talked to the psychologist that did my psychos
Speaker 3: at evaluation for the show, so you know, it's like
Speaker 3: and they said, yes, we have two on set. And
Speaker 3: so there's all of these promises and then you know
Speaker 3: things like like Danielle had a panic attack. No therapist,
Speaker 3: no psychologists, no mental health professional. We got a bunch
Speaker 3: of producers, you know, so like that's while film. That's devastating.
Speaker 3: And then when you come post show, you would think, like,
Speaker 3: here's some like real training, but instead you get a
Speaker 3: PowerPoint that's like if someone hasn't mean comment, delete it
Speaker 3: and block them, right, come on.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing is nobody, especially therapists or producers
Speaker 1: or whatever, are prepared for the social media of it
Speaker 1: all because and you don't know what's going to resonate.
Speaker 1: I always found that interesting from our show. You never
Speaker 1: know what's going to resonate. I talked to Colton a
Speaker 1: few weeks ago about the fence jump. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: when the fence jump happened, I mean I knew it
Speaker 1: was kind of funny and it would be on the show.
Speaker 1: I didn't think it would like be the thing that
Speaker 1: whole season. So you just you never know what's going
Speaker 1: to resonate. And again, you were divorced with Danielle, who
Speaker 1: knew that would be such a thing, that would be
Speaker 1: so explosive, and so it's hard to as a producer
Speaker 1: or a contestant to see ahead of that.
Speaker 3: Well, and the thing that really like sparked my desire
Speaker 3: to work because I had my co founder, Jeremy had
Speaker 3: been facilita or courting me to start this with him. Uh,
Speaker 3: and I was like, no, I kind of want to
Speaker 3: get out of this world. And it was when I
Speaker 3: was going through the divorce. Publicly, it was the layoff.
Speaker 3: It was everything just you know, in the public, just
Speaker 3: getting smeared and defamed and all this stuff. Going on,
Speaker 3: all while getting divorced, and all while looking for a job.
Speaker 3: I never once heard from Netflix, I never once heard
Speaker 3: from Kinetic, other than they both called me to let
Speaker 3: me know that they weren't going to sue us for
Speaker 3: getting a divorce because we were contractually bound to stainary.
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, No, thank.
Speaker 3: You, thank you, thank you. Yeah, that could have talk
Speaker 3: about a phone call. It could have been anything.
Speaker 1: I just lost my job, my insurance, my wife, my house.
Speaker 1: Thanks for not jumping on and suing me. And by
Speaker 1: the way, if you do, here's a quarter that we're
Speaker 1: going to like.
Speaker 2: What are you going to assume me for? I don't
Speaker 2: have anything anymore.
Speaker 1: I've given all my blood, man, I got nothing left exactly.
Speaker 1: But it is that is one of the difficult things.
Speaker 1: I guess that you look for that support And is
Speaker 1: that the biggest because I'm trying to think, Okay, what
Speaker 1: is our takeaway here? How do we relate this back?
Speaker 1: Where do we go from here? How do we help people?
Speaker 1: What would your suggestion be?
Speaker 3: Well, the immediate thing for us to do, and you know,
Speaker 3: there's organizing going on behind the scenes that I'm doing
Speaker 3: that other people are doing, and I'm hoping that we
Speaker 3: can all come together and stand united as unscripted cast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope to talk to about Thaty Frankel about this.
Speaker 1: I know she's kind of a proponent of the unionization,
Speaker 1: and I have my my misgivings about it just because
Speaker 1: I see some holes in it. It's it's a very
Speaker 1: difficult landscape to try and unionize and get together. I mean,
Speaker 1: I understand the concept as a whole, but the actual
Speaker 1: delivery of this and actually the implementation of this would
Speaker 1: be very, very difficult.
Speaker 2: That's yeah.
Speaker 3: And I've spoken with members of SAD organizing and the
Speaker 3: Team Stars organizing, and we are all aware of the
Speaker 3: fact that this is a beast to actually get done.
Speaker 3: But it has to start somewhere, right, and there's other
Speaker 3: level levers to pull, So, you know, is there going
Speaker 3: to be legislation that maybe gets introduced in California or
Speaker 3: something to say, hey, like these people are employees, or
Speaker 3: you know what, there's different lever levers that kind of
Speaker 3: can help improve this. But ultimately, like I you know,
Speaker 3: people think I hate Reality TV or I don't. I
Speaker 3: don't hate it. I think it's a fine source of entertainment.
Speaker 3: I think it's great content. I just think we don't
Speaker 3: need to produce it at the expense of people's mental,
Speaker 3: physical wellness and you know, impact them in the way
Speaker 3: where it can literally like ruin lives. It's literally ruined
Speaker 3: people's lives. People have killed themselves coming off of reality shows.
Speaker 3: Death by suicide. I mean, just awful, awful that anyone
Speaker 3: is in that sort of space, or that anyone can
Speaker 3: be edited into a villain just for entertainment.
Speaker 2: So so I just want to.
Speaker 3: Produce reality TV ethically and morally with a you know,
Speaker 3: human being core center. And I think that's what the
Speaker 3: Foundation You Can't Foundation is is trying to push towards
Speaker 3: and then the immediate need of just making sure you
Speaker 3: understand your contracts, that you understand what's legally enforceable and
Speaker 3: what's not, and that you can get mental health support before, during,
Speaker 3: and after the show. Like that's what needs to happen
Speaker 3: right now. So that's what the Foundation's trying to do.
Speaker 1: Just because you know, I look at you and I'm
Speaker 1: listening to you, it's like you're not an angry guy.
Speaker 1: You're very well thought out. Like I didn't know what
Speaker 1: I was going to get today, which is why I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to this. I always find it interesting,
Speaker 1: and maybe it is because I was on the show
Speaker 1: for so long. I love listening to people. I want
Speaker 1: to hear from them and then I can make my
Speaker 1: own decisions on And I see this person who's very
Speaker 1: obviously you're very well educated, You're a very smart guy.
Speaker 1: You got your together. So that's why the headlines and
Speaker 1: the stuff the stories are not connecting with who this
Speaker 1: human is I'm talking to right now now, and it
Speaker 1: just makes me even more sorry that you're going through
Speaker 1: what you've gone through and where do you go from here?
Speaker 1: Like how do we fix and help you on a
Speaker 1: personal level.
Speaker 3: First of all, thank you, Like I actually feel validated
Speaker 3: and heard when you say that. So I do appreciate that,
Speaker 3: because I you know, I read those headlines and I'm like,
Speaker 3: what that I didn't say that, or that's out of context,
Speaker 3: or and then that became the story instead of the
Speaker 3: efforts to improve the industry. Right, So it's just it's
Speaker 3: so inflammatory and and you know, initially I was upset
Speaker 3: and I was kind of hurt by it, but you know,
Speaker 3: I always go back to people don't know my story,
Speaker 3: people don't know my situation. People can tell me to go,
Speaker 3: you know, kick rocks or whatever they want to say.
Speaker 3: That's much meaner than that. But you know, I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't care, like I welcome their hatred to quote FDR,
Speaker 3: because I know that I'm doing the right thing and
Speaker 3: I'm trying to leave realc TV better than I found it. So,
Speaker 3: you know, from that aspect, you know, supporting the foundation,
Speaker 3: it's all volunteers. I don't know if people think we're
Speaker 3: like funneling money to ourselves for some reason, but it's
Speaker 3: everyone's volunteered. Nobody's been paid. You actually invested our own
Speaker 3: money and time into it. So I think that that's
Speaker 3: a big focus for me. So from a personal standpoint,
Speaker 3: like I want to you know, organize us and get
Speaker 3: us some some basic protections. And then for me professionally,
Speaker 3: I am still looking for a job. I've got a
Speaker 3: couple interviews that have lined up in the last couple
Speaker 3: of weeks, partially because of this story.
Speaker 2: So all those people that.
Speaker 3: Have reached out and and you know, shown me some
Speaker 3: grace and then also you know, try to help like
Speaker 3: that is so appreciated. The kindness from people is far
Speaker 3: outweighs the negativity but you know, I'm still looking for
Speaker 3: a job. I'm hopeful, I'm positive about it. I you know,
Speaker 3: like I said, I got a couple of mon in
Speaker 3: the bank to pay my mortgage. Like, I'm not looking
Speaker 3: that far ahead, looking forward so that I can stay
Speaker 3: focused on what needs to be happening that day.
Speaker 1: Well, you sound like a grinder, you kind of. I
Speaker 1: have the same mentality of like, I don't care if
Speaker 1: i'm if I'm not doing this, I'll be doing something.
Speaker 1: Like I know I will make it work. I always
Speaker 1: have in my life as an adult, and I always will.
Speaker 1: That's just you know, So I know you're going to
Speaker 1: be fine, But fine isn't good enough when you had
Speaker 1: such great success and I hope you will find that again.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure you have to go into these interviews
Speaker 1: and spend part of the time instead of just telling
Speaker 1: people how great you are and all your attributes, explaining
Speaker 1: away and defending yourself. That's a tough way to come
Speaker 1: into a job interview.
Speaker 3: It totally is. And but I'm okay. I'm comfortable with
Speaker 3: it because, like I said, I haven't said or done
Speaker 3: anything that I feel is out of character. Yeah, And
Speaker 3: so that you can sleep at night, right, And you
Speaker 3: know that I believe, whether this is true or not,
Speaker 3: that if you do the right thing and you stay
Speaker 3: the course, like do work out, I do. I do
Speaker 3: have to keep that mindset. But but yeah, that's you
Speaker 3: know that that is it is tough. But I'm not
Speaker 3: here to defend my defend myself to be I don't.
Speaker 1: There's nothing to depend I mean, there's nothing to fight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's that's what's crazy, exactly. And that's what's hard
Speaker 1: for when I talk to people that are involved in
Speaker 1: all the tabloid crap and all these headlines, what they
Speaker 1: want is for you to say something and defend yourself.
Speaker 1: Now they have another story, and then you have to
Speaker 1: defend that, and now they have another story. And so
Speaker 1: this is it's this kind of sick perpetual motion that
Speaker 1: you have to fight, but you can't fight it. Like
Speaker 1: there's no they they have the ultimate Yeah, they have
Speaker 1: the ultimate edit. You know, you know, you're never going
Speaker 1: to read a story like oh that was that was
Speaker 1: well well done, that was well said. Thanks, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: You know what's funny is that Daily Mail story that
Speaker 3: started this whole storm, Like the story itself is actually
Speaker 3: really good.
Speaker 2: If you read the story, it's.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, it's hitting all the points and then on
Speaker 3: the bottom and then the bottom is the line, and
Speaker 3: then the headline, and it's just like that got to
Speaker 3: read people.
Speaker 1: What about your personal life? Are you dating again, seeing anybody?
Speaker 1: Do you even have time to think about that?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: I sometimes joke and say I don't really know where
Speaker 3: the day or the time goes, or even what day
Speaker 3: it is anymore.
Speaker 2: Dating is not on my radar. It's not you know.
Speaker 3: It's like I said, I'm looking at the like today, tomorrow,
Speaker 3: and there's no dating in sight for me.
Speaker 2: There's still a lot of healing right now.
Speaker 1: You don't have the bandwidth for that, I assume.
Speaker 3: Right or really the will It's tough. It's tough.
Speaker 1: And do you and Danielle do y'all still talk at all?
Speaker 1: Like have you'll have y'all found a common bond as
Speaker 1: far as going through this together?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have.
Speaker 3: We actually reconnected after back in at the end of
Speaker 3: April early May, I think it was early May. We
Speaker 3: reconnected and talked for the first time in probably eight
Speaker 3: nine months. Good and then she actually was a guest
Speaker 3: on two episodes of my podcast where we kind of
Speaker 3: talked through our whole situation from before the show, during
Speaker 3: the show, after the show, what we had been doing
Speaker 3: the last eight months, and then how we came together,
Speaker 3: which was really, you know, really healing for both of us.
Speaker 3: So I think we're united and in our experience and
Speaker 3: united in trying to get some change in the industry
Speaker 3: that's going to help people out.
Speaker 1: That's awesome, man, I think that is that's a good
Speaker 1: thing to hear, just you know, misery loves company. But
Speaker 1: but that's the wrong that's the wrong line here. But
Speaker 1: that's that's what came to my mind. But it's true.
Speaker 1: A united front is a good thing just to have
Speaker 1: somebody who's going through this at the same time that
Speaker 1: you can share these stories with, because it's there's very
Speaker 1: few people in this world who will understand this and
Speaker 1: truly get what you've gone through. I truly understand it,
Speaker 1: and I have empathy, and I I I see this
Speaker 1: guy in front of me who's who's been you know,
Speaker 1: kicked in the gut. But I do know I can
Speaker 1: already tell you're going to be You're gonna be fine eventually.
Speaker 1: You're in the middle of it right now. But I
Speaker 1: know you're coming out the other side, and if there's
Speaker 1: anything I can do, reach out. I've really enjoyed our conversation.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you taking the time, yeah, and explaining everything
Speaker 1: the way you have. I think if anybody has a
Speaker 1: problem with Nick, play this podcast, I might right come on.
Speaker 1: This guy is brilliant, brilliant, strong, and obviously can persevere.
Speaker 2: Well. Thank you.
Speaker 3: I think I think it's so funny how polarizing I
Speaker 3: get over so many different things over the course of
Speaker 3: being in the limelight a little bit, and it's just
Speaker 3: so funny to me the things people like you said.
Speaker 3: You don't know what's going to take off and what's
Speaker 3: what's not.
Speaker 1: Well, Nick, I appreciate it, and I thank you, and
Speaker 1: I'm sorry you've gone through what you have and it's
Speaker 1: affected you this way. But I truly think you are
Speaker 1: going to be bigger, better, stronger as you come out
Speaker 1: of this, and I wish you all the best. I
Speaker 1: truly do.
Speaker 3: I appreciate that, and I appreciate the conversation too, and
Speaker 3: the honesty and openness has been really nice.
Speaker 1: All right, my friend, I appreciate it, and you take
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you hopefully again down the road as
Speaker 1: this thing progresses you too.
Speaker 3: Thanks a lot for having me, Chris.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most
Speaker 1: dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write us a
Speaker 1: review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you
Speaker 1: next time.