WEBVTT - Is brain size related to intelligence? 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:11.160 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know fromhouse Stuff Works dot com. Hey, 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.640 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:18.160 Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and this is stuff you should Know. Yes, 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.159 I think this might complete our brain. I don't know 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:25.119 about that, because we've done Einstein's brain, You've done difference 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:29.400 between men and women's brain, and now we're tackling brain size, 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.240 which is sort of gets on both of us a 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:35.919 little bit. It does, but there's always new findings. So yeah, 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:39.479 that's what I'm saying. If there's ever an ongoing sweet, 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.760 it's got to be the brain. Man. It's growing all 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:47.920 the time. It's changing shape, changing size, changing connections. You 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:52.080 could almost say that sweet is plastic plasticity. Baby. Yeah, 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.040 that's right. Um, you sent me something that I think 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.920 we should talk about first, Chuck. This is kind of like, um, 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:03.560 this is just like a ad bag hodgepodge of loosely 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:07.040 related studies that all find that we don't really know 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:11.280 the answer to the question like does a big brain 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:15.040 mean a smarter person? Yeah, because there's a lot of 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:20.440 different conflicting findings. Well, a few million years ago, our 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.080 brains started growing a lot and that kind of timed 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:26.600 out with becoming smarter and using tools and things. So 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:30.200 I mean there's a little bit of you call it evidence. Well, yeah, 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:32.920 there's definitely some plenty of evidence. I think that's what 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:36.559 the confounding part is that there's plenty of evidence that, yes, 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:41.480 as a brain grows, it is correlated to intelligence. But 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:44.600 then that's only holding true up to a point. I 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.880 sounded like a Soviet immigrant. Just then that's only holding 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:53.880 true up to a certain point. Right. He's in Branson, Missouri, though, 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:55.720 did you know that. I think he's got like his 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:58.640 own restaurant or something. Well, he's own theater, and I 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:02.760 think all the theaters are food buttery. We should go 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:04.480 to Branson, man that I want to see what that 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.280 place is all about. Okay, you know yeah, I mean 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:12.560 it's a parade of stars. If it's nineteen seventy three, 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:16.399 you know. Uh, I bet your boy Ronnie mills Up 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:20.160 is there. Yeah. If he doesn't have a place there, 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:23.880 I'll bet he plays Branson fairly regularly. He sub lets 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:29.440 he would play well there. Um, so Branson, how do 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:34.800 we even get them? Yeah? So brain size does correlate 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.960 to intelligence to a certain extent, But you can point 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.959 out like, well, sperm whale has a seventeen pound brain. 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:44.320 Holy cow, it must be the smartest animal on the planet. 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.440 Well it's not. I'm sorry to tell you sperm whale 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.520 fans that it's not the smartest animal on the planet. 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.280 Humans are the smartest animal on the planet, and don't 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.280 you forget it. But we don't have the largest brains, 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.640 so you kind of take that idea of well, if 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:03.320 it's not brain size, maybe it has to do with 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.359 the size of your brain in relation to your body. 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.160 Then we started to get a little closer to jack pot. 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:11.400 But even still, I just want to I want to 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.280 spoil it for everybody. There's no definitive answer. Yeah, but 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.040 sometimes those are the best ones because we get to 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:21.000 explore all this stuff and we can't really get anything 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:25.440 wrong because nobody knows what's right. Oh I like this, then, yeah, 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.840 I've turned you know these? Yeah, now now I feel 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:32.560 good about this because I can't be wrong right exactly. Well, 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.440 I guess we should start off with um a little 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.400 bit about what determines what size brain you do have. 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.640 And again they don't know everything about it, but they 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.560 think that genetics plays apart. They know this in part 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:52.680 by studying twins and identical twins um have, of course 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:56.280 the same genes. Fraternal twins have about half the same genes, 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.320 and there's a greater correlation in brain size if you're 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.840 identical then fraternal. Yeah, so genetics, you know, looks like 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:04.800 it probably plays a role. Yeah, And they've done a 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:11.000 lot of exploration into what genes in particular have to 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.720 do with brain size, and they've isolated a few. Um 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:20.479 one is called beta catenin. There's a hyphen in there too. 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.880 It's pretty flashy gene not beta carotene, no caten in. 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:28.960 And who's who's coming up with the naming convention for genes? 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:31.960 They are all over the place, like you can't look 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:33.360 at the name of a gene and be like, that's 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:36.600 obviously a gene unless there's like a couple of weird 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.080 consonants and a number and then another consonant. Then you're like, well, 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:44.440 that's a gene. But you're right, that's a gene. It 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:46.520 is a gene, and it's a gene that they know 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:49.479 controls brain growth because they've injected poor mice with this 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:53.320 stuff until their heads exploded. Exactly their heads they fell 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.640 short of exploding. But a lot of the mice died 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.800 as a result of their heads growing too big. But 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.560 they're they're they're brain means grew big, and as a 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:06.040 result of their brains growing big, they exhibited um more intelligence, 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:12.919 higher cognitive function. They injected these things with a gene 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:16.800 your brain. That yeah, that made them smarter. But that, 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.039 like Molly points out in this article, you can't. That 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.000 doesn't mean we should start doing that because these mines 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.640 are dying, so you can't. Just you can't play god, 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.040 as they say, no, But it does make you wonder, like, Okay, 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:29.960 you don't want to shoot up beta caton in like 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:31.920 before the s A T S or anything like that, 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:36.080 but like, is there a way to kind of tamper 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:40.760 a little less but still tamper with that gene something 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.120 put under your tongue and let it dissolve. Maybe sure, 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.440 like you know, just epigenetically, just a tad bit. Yeah 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.760 not maybe you know, amplify it just a tad and 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.480 see what happens. But it would cause your brain to 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:56.400 grow because that gene is partially responsible for the size 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.200 that your brain gets to. That's right, as far as 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:04.719 large your brains go. Yes, like it makes it larger. Yes, 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.640 if you want to talk smaller brains, there's another gene. 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.400 And boy, you're right. The names are all over the place, 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:13.320 just convention wise. It's not like they have different names 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.679 that some are numbers and dashes. And to get it together, 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:24.000 people AESPM. It's an abbreviation for abnormal spindle like, uh, 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:28.359 micro cephalely associated, that's the name of the gene. Yeah, 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:32.240 that's it's just shameful. And they say microcephalely associated because 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.400 that is a condition that you've probably seen before when 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:38.000 you're born with a small head and small brain, which 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:41.479 probably means you're going to have some cognitive impairment. So 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:47.360 so right there, smaller brain is is correlated to lesser 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.800 or lower faculty your cognitive function. Yeah, we should look 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:52.960 into that more for another podcast. So I think it's 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:58.000 uh from the images I saw, it looks like you 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:02.080 remember like the movie Freaks. Yes, that that guy. I 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:04.359 think that's so cute the deal. I think you have 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.200 like normal sized nose and ears and eyes, but your 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:11.840 actual head and skull and brain or smaller. You don't 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:16.080 look like the the um the African Safari guy from 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:21.000 Beetle Chuice not proportionately shrunk, right, it's yeah, how you 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.240 get him down so small? Right? Favorite? What was that 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:29.200 guy's name from Freaks? I've read about him before. No, 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:32.960 he had his stage name. It was like Topsy or 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:37.080 Flopsy or something like that, and he apparently like the 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:41.840 greatest personality of all time, just so lovable and was 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:45.880 just exploited basically his whole life until that movie like 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.080 kind of got vengeance for him because he was a 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:54.600 real life side show performer. Well that's good. Yeah, Topsy. 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:57.720 It wasn't Topsy that was the elephant that Edison electrocuted, 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:01.520 but it was something along those lines. Just a fun, 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:06.720 fun name. Yeah, so check. There's another gene. This is 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:10.520 a little more genetically sounding e m x two. Yeah 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:16.280 that sel sounds like a dirt bike or a gene. Yeah, 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:21.080 it's um Again, we're not We're not saying like, well, 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:23.600 these are the genes that provide you with your intellect. 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.120 These are just genes that they are saying these things 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.040 have to do with the size of your brain, and 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.200 they we also have figured out that if you mess 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:38.000 with these genes, you may also be messing with cognitive function. 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:41.880 So we're laying the groundwork here, everybody to bear with us. 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:46.240 The e m x two gene UM apparently has to 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:50.920 do with the growth of your UM, the functional subdivisions 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:54.400 of the cortex. You have different cortices, they're responsible for 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.640 different things. So like if in that New York Times 0:08:57.720 --> 0:08:59.840 article you seth me, the guy uses the visual cortex 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:03.480 as an example, UM, where like you get all your 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.640 visual sensory input and your brain puts it all together. 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.600 That cortex, that region of your brain is responsible for 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:15.320 a fairly specific but also very um complicated task. Now, 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:19.400 this one functional cortex that the e m x two 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:24.040 gene is responsible for UM has to do with basically input, 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:30.440 sensory input and motor output. So your behavior, Like, um, 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:32.680 if I came across this desk at you and like 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.760 pinched your cheeks, you'd like jump back, I'd say, what 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.280 is it Wednesday? Right? Yeah, you would make the connection 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:43.800 that's Wednesday. Your behavior would occur. So, UM, this e 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.080 m x two gene has to do with that cortex 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.599 and its size. What they found is that bigger is 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:55.520 not necessarily better. If you have a lower expression of 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.520 it and you have a smaller subdivision of that cortex, 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:03.960 you're not to do very well behaviorally functionally, like you 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.720 won't be able to hit a baseball very well, all right, 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.480 but if it's too big, if that gene over expresses, 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:13.600 you don't get better at hitting a baseball. With this 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.240 in particular, it seems to be fine tuned. So if 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.719 you're not hitting that sweet spot, you're never going to 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:23.400 hit a baseball. And there may be myriad other problems, 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.120 but you're definitely not gonna hit that baseball. So that 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:30.760 means you're born with baseball talent pretty much. Yeah, because 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.480 it's genetic, and there's like there's some people who are 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.240 so close to perfect that like baseball just comes naturally 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:41.079 to right, right, like Robert Redford exactly. Yeah, he really 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:44.640 gave those lights a wall. Yeah, he's the natural. So 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.880 that's the genetic basis of it. Chuck. Yeah, and uh, 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:54.040 I guess we should talk some about size if it's important, 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.240 because this is sort of the debate that keeps going 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:02.240 on and on. Is brain size corollary to intelligence levels? Uh? 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.360 They did find or they have found links between if 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.040 you have a lot of brain growth, um, if it's 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:12.040 disproportionate early on, Um, they've linked that then early I 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:15.760 mean the first twelve months too. They've linked that to autism. 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:19.480 So super rapid growth may what it may do is 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:24.880 just prevent those neural connections from happening like they should, right. 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.960 Um And actually, well that's kind of links into that 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.160 tethering thing I sent you too, it does, which we 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:36.560 will talk about later. Um. In biology, though, is there's 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.480 kind of this consensus that it's it's not the only determinant, 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.679 that it has a lot to do with um environment 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.079 as well, I think kind of as a whole. People 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:51.360 who investigate correlations between brain size and intelligence have totally 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:57.800 abandoned the idea that, um, like, your brain is predetermined 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.680 to grow a certain way and then that's the Yeah. Well, 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.080 size wise, they've also found that if you have a 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.600 d h D, if you're an adolescent, your brain might 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.880 be three to four percent smaller than your classmate who 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.880 does not have a d h D. UM, and your 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:16.400 brain shrinks as you get older, but doesn't necessarily lose 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.520 functionality because of the shrinkage. It's not to say when 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.080 you get older, you don't, you know, loose functionality, but 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.959 it's not due to the size. No. They think that, um, 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:31.720 it's probably mostly due to really Okay, that you're you're 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:36.240 synapsies are just kind of built up with gunk remnant 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.720 proteins from years and decades of firings. Then you shake 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.880 that off by continuing to use it. Yes, that's one thing. 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:47.920 But also they've recently found that, um, while you sleep, 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:51.280 they think now the function of sleep. They didn't notice 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.920 it before until I don't know what kind of new 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.000 imaging technology they used, but they found out that there's 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:02.400 this whole channel of like basically a sewage system that 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:05.440 just clears out all the gunk from your brain while 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:10.000 you're sleeping at night. And it's just that's why you 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.360 are cognitively refreshed. That makes sense from sleep. And we've 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.400 done we did one on why sleep is important, right, Yes, 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:18.160 I think that was in there. We've done a bunch. 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.240 There's a whole sleep suite too, alright. So one of 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:25.319 the reasons why uh people are still debating whether or 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:29.000 not brain size equals more intelligence or less intelligence is 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.760 because when there are a lot of different ways to 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.080 measure the brain, um, you know, like do you take 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.640 a tape measure and go around it or do you 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.320 go from the middle out or do you do it 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:45.360 proportioned to your body size, which is a real measurement 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:49.400 called insephalation quotient. And if they're talking about your body size, 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:53.439 what if you're super fat? Like, there are all these 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:55.640 different ways and no one I don't think has ever 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.679 come to a consensus on the best way to actually 0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:59.680 do the measurement in the first place. No. And there's 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.840 another a really big outstanding question is how do you 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:08.840 measure intelligence? Like our i Q tests actually legitimate. Yeah, 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:12.800 So when you have two parts of your equation that 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:17.120 are both hinky, how can you come up with an answer? Well, 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:21.200 it depends, like if you're comparing species to species, that 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:25.320 in cephilization quotiation actually has been proven to be pretty effective. 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:31.240 So like the proportion of your brain to your body 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.960 size is a pretty decent predictor of your e Q 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.560 is what it's called as a mammal. Yes, as as 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.800 a mammal. When you go outside of mammals, it gets 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:45.360 less and less effective. Um. But with humans, for example, 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:50.560 we our our brain is like two point seven pounds 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.600 on average, it's something like around two to three. I've 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:55.360 seen as much as five, but I think it's about 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:59.680 three percent of our body weight. Um. But it uses 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.200 up a about of the energy, which is another measure 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.200 like how much energy is your brain require? The more 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:11.440 energy your brain requires. In addition to things like eq, 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:14.520 you can get a pretty good idea of like how 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.320 intelligent that being is. Well, Einstein's brain remembers this was 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.000 the same size, but different parts were bigger than others. Right, 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:25.040 so supposedly let's come under fire lately. Yeah, somebody was like, 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.240 these studies are terrible, Like, you can't make these huge 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:34.480 leaps and bounds and um in conclusions just from a 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:40.200 couple of strips of brain tissue. But apparently most studies have. 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:42.960 Well I think that's sort of like a juicy thing 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.880 that people like to talk about Einstein's brain. Yeah, you know, 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:47.840 I could see people making that leap, right, and the 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.320 idea that like, oh, well, Einstein's brain is just like 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.800 anybody else's, Well, that means that anybody could be a genius. 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.640 You know. It really argues in favor of the nurture 0:15:56.760 --> 0:16:00.280 side of things. But if his brain is structurally different, well, 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:04.080 the genius is an inborn natural thing. It's just nature 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:08.160 versus nurture played out on pout. Einstein sliced up brain. Yeah, 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.360 that lived in a garage for many years, like everyone's brain. 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:15.200 So here's the most controversial thing, Like when you're comparing 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:20.200 species to species, like you said, especially among mammals, chuck. Um, 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:24.440 it's easier to say like, yes, this EQ thing works, 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.320 but within a single species that when things starting to 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:33.000 fall apart, for instance, specifically among humans. Um, men tend 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.920 to have about a hundred grahams more mass to their 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:41.680 brain than women. But if a bigger brain means that 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.480 you are more intelligent, then does that mean that men 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:47.720 are more intelligent than women? I think we all know 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.160 that women are more intelligent than men. Okay, so then 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:54.040 brain size really has nothing to do with it, at 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:58.760 least intra species, That's what I'm saying. But um, there 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:00.520 have been plenty of studies that I'm sure got a 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:05.280 lot of people's hackles up. Um. One guy named Michael McDaniel, 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:11.000 who's a psychologist, basically entered the news cycle bursting onto 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.960 the scene in two thousand five, which is always a 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.159 little bit like yeah's this guy right, Yeah, But he 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:21.360 came up with a study that was ready made for CNN. Yeah. 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.640 I mean he said flat out that bigger brains means 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:28.960 you're smarter and that I E or e G. Which 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:33.240 one is it? Uh? I EVE in this case, men 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.760 are smarter than women. Yeah, yeah, that's what he was saying. Yeah, 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:41.080 because he basically put brain imaging tests and i Q 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:46.879 tests together and said, well, there's a direct correlation between 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.800 the two. And again with these tests they did, uh, 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.480 they compared, Um, they converted s A T scores of 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:57.320 a hundred thousand seventeen and eighteen year old to an 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:00.080 ice Q score And I don't see why they and 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.320 had to do that, and they found that males average 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:06.240 three point six three IQ points higher. But um, I 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.000 don't know. It just seems really hinky because first of all, 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.800 they used ten thousand more females and males, so that's 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.560 gonna excuw things. And then it's an s A T R. 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.520 What does that even mean? Yeah, it has been proven 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:20.520 time and time again to be biased. Yeah, and then 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.760 they converted that to an i Q source with some 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.600 like I guess machine, seems like some things would be 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:27.920 lost in translation. Yeah, I think it's a bunch of bunks. 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.359 So yeah, I think you're not alone in the idea 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:32.080 that it's a bunch of bunks. So a lot of 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:36.479 um scientists have said, Okay, all right, this whole brain 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:43.720 size correlating to intelligence stinks of phrenology when you're talking 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.560 about looking at it just in the human species, right, 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:49.880 So what is it though? I mean, surely there's got 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:55.119 to be some biological part or aspect of the brain 0:18:55.720 --> 0:19:01.320 that correlates to intelligence. If it's not size in maybe 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.919 it's the number of neurons that you have, Yeah, neural connections. 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.400 A lot of people have thought that that was kind 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:11.639 of the second to most recent wave in thinking about 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:17.080 what brain structure correlates to intelligence. Yeah, this um was 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:19.280 this the New York Times one about the tether hypothesis. 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.840 This is just December of last year, so it's pretty recent. 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:26.840 And a couple of neuroscientists from HAVID so you know 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:32.399 they're right. Um, they had a pretty simple explanation. Um, 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:34.840 when back in the day when tooktok had a little 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:38.520 bitty tiny brain. Uh. Their argument is that the neurons 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:43.800 were tightly tethered in a pretty simple connection pattern, and 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.520 that when our brains started getting bigger, those tethers were 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:49.960 torn apart and it formed h It enabled us, We 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.520 formed new neurons and new neural pathways and new circuits. 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.000 That that makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.480 it's like the brain size might have been about the same, 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.760 and it was, but the neuro connections were still following 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:06.880 the primal animal connectivity, where it's like they they connect 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:11.960 in a predictable way, whereas with this untethered idea, they 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:16.359 just blossomed out. And do you know the idea of um, 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.159 like like what neuro connections look like today, rather than 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.000 following like straight predictable lines, they were all over the place. 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:25.680 And from these new connections, new associations arose, and that 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:30.360 gave rise to intellect. According to this, it's pretty simple smart. Yeah, 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:33.640 I like, I think sometimes the simplest hypotheses might be 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.359 on target with acam's razor my friend, or maybe they 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:43.720 just speak to me because I'm a dummy other ball um. 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:48.159 So that's that is a competing explanation. Another one that 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:53.000 I've seen, uh says that it's not not the neurons, 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:55.320 not the number of neurons, not even the number of 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:59.359 neural connections. It's the chemistry and the complexity of the 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:03.200 neuro train sbmitters that are being conducted between these neurons, 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.120 and from this has kind of come this new idea 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:11.840 that it's folly to even say, well, humans are obviously 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.880 smarter than a bottle knows dolphins, even though they're smart, 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:23.560 because the bottle knows dolphins. Um experience understanding of life 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:27.439 is so radically different from humans. Yeah, you can't. You 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:30.480 can't compare intellect to intellect. Yeah you can't say, well, 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:32.720 a dolphin can't, you know, talk and speak, but I 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.679 can't do things a dolphin can do. Or maybe dolphins 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:38.480 are speaking, I mean, to one another, just not to us. 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:41.200 That doesn't make them less intelligent. So long, and thanks 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:42.840 for all the fish and we're not Yeah, that's a 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.440 good one, and we're not like anthropomorphizing here. Basically, there's 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:52.840 there is very little um point I guess. Yeah, I 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:56.399 don't get it to comparing the two. There's tremendous point 0:21:56.480 --> 0:22:00.920 to getting to cracking this code and understanding dolphin intellect 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:05.919 or bird intellect, degreed octopus intellect and human intellect. But 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.880 to compare them is it's an exercise and futility. There's 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:12.400 no point to it. I don't get it. Yeah, I mean, 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:16.000 compared dolphin A to dolphin B one, maybe smarter one 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:18.679 might have a little patchy mustache and hang out at 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:22.600 the gas station a lot. And that's not the smart one. Yeah. 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:24.880 I think people do this to either. I think they're 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:28.240 trying to claim some either superiority of animals over humans 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:30.600 or humans over animals, right, And that's kind of that's 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:32.720 a big issue of these days, Like there there are 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:36.000 groups um animal rights groups that are trying to further 0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:42.160 animal rights by getting them inalienable rights like humans have right, 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:46.480 which would really screw up the zoos system. Yeah, you 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:48.840 can look for a podcast on that too. We did. Yeah, 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:51.399 that was a good one. I think we landed pretty 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:57.040 heavily against zoos. Yeah, we did. But to each their own. 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:01.720 But I haven't been to a zoo since then. What 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:03.960 is this Project Enigma? I thought that was pretty interesting. 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:07.600 It was another genetic thing, this um it was. It 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:11.120 was neat though in that like this Australian researchers said, Hey, 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:13.359 we have something called internet and m r I S 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:19.200 and willing participants, so everybody starts sending in your brain scans. 0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:21.720 Is that who proved that the complexity of the neural 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:25.320 activity was the most important thing? Was that project? No, 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:28.040 that was a different one. That was there was a 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:34.040 New Scientist or no Scientific American article that um that 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:39.399 explored that idea as the the synaptic proteins that create 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:44.439 intellect or intelligence. But the Project Enigma basically found that 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:50.160 there is a single mutation on a specific gene where 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:53.640 if you have a C instead of T, I think 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:57.439 you um have a bigger brain. And they correlated that 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:02.320 to more intelligence. Yeah, but again using the i Q test. Well, 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:05.960 what I'm tired of are the studies that throw out 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:11.120 the results that don't make a fun headline, you know. Right, 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:14.440 There was this one um from Smithsonian magazine from December 0:24:14.440 --> 0:24:17.560 of last year that uh, well they it wasn't from them, 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:21.040 was from the Proceedings of the Royal Society b and 0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:24.399 Smithsonian reported on it. But it was a study of 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:28.480 country mice and city mice. Well a bunch of animals. 0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:32.280 But they found that city mice and vol I don't 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:34.639 even know what that is, v l E. Prairie vols? 0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:39.400 What is that? Like? They're very sweet. They they are 0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:43.359 monogamous like a bowl eevil, No, that's a bug. A 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:46.600 bowl is like a like a prairie dog. You should 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:48.560 look up prairie balls. Very cute and the idea that 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:52.040