1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: and we're back for part two of our two part 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: exploration of the world of skugs. That's right, squirrels. Squirrels. 6 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: If you did not listen to our last episode, our 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: most recent episode about squirrels, go back and listen to it, 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: because it will. It will provide some necessary, horrific revelations 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: about the squirrel that you really need going into this episode. 10 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,639 Speaker 1: And we should warn at the beginning that, uh, if 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: you didn't listen to the last episode you want to 12 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: listen to this one anyway, you should be forewarned. This 13 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: is going to be one of the most gruesome things 14 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: we've ever explored on the show. I think how squirrels, 15 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: I would say that the last episode, which largely dealt 16 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: with the fact that squirrels eat meat and do act 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: really stalk prey. Uh Like, that's an episode I would 18 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: listen to with my six year old son and I 19 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't have any problem with it. I've talked about the 20 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: topics on that episode with him. This episode, I would 21 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: probably not listen to with nice year old son. Yeah, 22 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: I didn't think it would roll out this way. But 23 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: but our exploration of squirrels is one of the most 24 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: inappropriate for children of all things we've ever we've ever 25 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: explored here. Yes, but we're walking in deep truth tonight 26 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: at children, So so stick with us as we explore 27 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: more horrific facts about squirrel behavior. So again, last episode, 28 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 1: we talked about squirrels eating meat, squirrels stalking their prey, 29 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: squirrels messing around with snakes. Uh, squirrels, and their relationship 30 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: with Benjamin Franklin. This time now. In the last episode, 31 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: we talked about certain myths about Benjamin Franklin and the 32 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: reality of Benjamin Franklin having a pet squirrel named Mungo 33 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: who he wrote analogy for when it was killed by 34 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: a dog. Um. This time, I want to start off 35 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: with another possible myth, possible fact that that dwells in 36 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: that hazy middle world of rumor. I want to know, Robert, 37 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: if you've ever heard the same rumor I have. It's 38 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: a horrifying rumor. It's one I've heard for years, and 39 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: it's about the competition between squirrels and the rumor goes 40 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: something like this. When two adult male squirrels come into 41 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: conflict over food, over territory, over mating, or whatever. The 42 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: two squirrels fight with a horrible aim, and that aim 43 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: is to castrate the other by biting off its squirrel testicles. 44 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: I had never heard of this before. I would say 45 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: the closest thing i'd heard was, you know some details 46 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: about competition between chimpanzees. Yeah, by biting off Well, I 47 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: just know that genital attacks um have have have been 48 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: reported among chimpanzees. Uh, but I don't know with what 49 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: degree of frequency. But it's the kind of thing where 50 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: I heard about it in relation to chimpanzees, and now 51 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: makes me look at chimpanzee is a little uh well, 52 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot with chimpanzees to be you know, a 53 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: little concerned about. But but I've never heard about this 54 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: with squirrels. Well, I I've heard about this for years. 55 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: I don't remember where I heard it first. It might 56 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: have been from some old, some good old Tennessee woodsman 57 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: somewhere who spoke wisdom of the forest into my ears. 58 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: But this is important for us to remind all of 59 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: our listeners, is that Joe and I both grew up 60 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: with with with with access to the Tennessee woodlands. Yes, 61 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: so there is a lot of I'm rather surprised that 62 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: I didn't hear this story from from from people who 63 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: wandered out of the out of the Tennessee of forests 64 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: with tales of the skug. Well, if you want to 65 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: hear about the horrors of skug castration from the lips 66 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: of the true speakers, you should go to YouTube, because 67 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: there will be many a video of some bearded hunter 68 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: standing there and Camo talking into his phone in the 69 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: middle of the forest saying, here's what happens when these 70 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: here squirrels buy it off each other's nuts. But it 71 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: turns out there are many variations on this base rumor. 72 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: So one is that you've got one squirrel species that 73 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: supplants another in an area by castrating all the males 74 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: of the other squirrel species. Sometimes this version goes, you've 75 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: got gray squirrels doing it to red squirrels. Sometimes they 76 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: say it's red squirrels doing it to gray squirrels. Sometimes 77 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: the fox squirrel is thrown in there somewhere. And so 78 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: what we want to look at is is there any 79 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: truth to this? Is it true or is this just 80 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: a horrible woodsman myth? My uh guess, of course would 81 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: be that it is a myth, because it just doesn't 82 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: sound like behavior one finds in animals, especially against another species. 83 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: You know, it is a certainly strange targeted behavior, one 84 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: thing that I wanted because because you don't have to 85 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: castrate another species to drive it off. We see plenty 86 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: of examples of one one species driving off another from resources, 87 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: competing for the same resources, or of course, uh, two 88 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: members of the same species competing for re sources or mates. 89 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: But you can drive they will drive each other off 90 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: through through fighting, through displays, much more conventional means. Yeah, 91 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 1: usually genital mutilation doesn't come up. Yeah, it doesn't seem 92 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: like a necessary step. But then again, well we'll we'll 93 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: come back to this, will weigh the pros and cons 94 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: later on. So one of the best things about this 95 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: myth is that it doesn't just come from the woodsman 96 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: and Camo talking into his phone by a forest stream. 97 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: There's a rather crazy back and forth about this in 98 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: several volumes of the Journal of the American Medical Association 99 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: in JAMMA for more than a century ago. So in 100 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: the year eight for some reason, Jamma got a little 101 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 1: bit obsessed with rampant squirrel castration. So it started when 102 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: the American surgeon Edmund Andrews wrote an article for the 103 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: Journal in eight about unux and about the physiological effects 104 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: of castration. And in this article Andrews puts together sort 105 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: of a round owned up of what he knew about 106 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: the natural effects of castration and many different animals, and 107 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: one of those animals was the squirrel. And he writes 108 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: quote naturalist state that the black or gray male squirrels 109 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: in fighting seek to castrate each other with their teeth, 110 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: so that many of those taken by hunters are thus mutilated. 111 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: As they do it only in adult life, it does 112 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: not materially change their general development. Because he was talking 113 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: about this in the context of, well, what happens if 114 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: a young animal is castrated? How does that change the 115 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: way it develops into an adult? Okay, so the the 116 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: the idea here is that it is it's reached material. Yeah. 117 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: Unfortunately Andrews does not say who these naturalists are, and 118 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: makes me wonder, especially given the time, is this is 119 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: this real empirical data or is he just repeating the 120 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: eight version of an urban legend? Or maybe a rural 121 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: legend just against somebody wandering out of the wood saying, yep, 122 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: squirrels in there. They're buying each other's nuts, and they're 123 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: they're they're buying the next year. That's good you called 124 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: to mind. In the last episode, we talked about some 125 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: rumors about squirrel attacks that seemed very unlikely to be 126 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: true about like in Borneo Hunters talking about squirrels taking 127 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: down deer and killing them seems hard to believe. But 128 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: so this first mention is just this one off in 129 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: in Andrew's article about eunux in general. And Andrews comes 130 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: back to this in another volume of Jamah with an 131 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: article called do adult squirrels cast rate each other? So 132 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: Andrews writes, in this article, remember we asked who that 133 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: naturalist was or the natural square that he got his 134 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: information from. He says he got the information about squirrels 135 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: from quote a distinguished naturalist, but he still doesn't say 136 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: who it is. Good good lessons, cite your sources with 137 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: possible folks. Apparently he got a contradictory response to this 138 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: claim from a doctor named Dr A. S Allen of 139 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: Mercy Hospital, Chicago, and Alan claims first of all, about 140 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: a third of wild squirrels captured by hunters are found 141 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: to be castrated. I assume he means one third of 142 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: may squirrels, but it doesn't say I hate to be 143 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: this low brow, but I'm I'm wondering if mistaking dead 144 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: female squirrels for dead male squirrels could be causing some 145 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: confusion among some hunters here. Perhaps perhaps, Alan says he 146 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: thinks that this castration is not done in fighting between 147 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: adult males, as Andrews did in his original article. He 148 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: writes quote. He says that a number of gray squirrels 149 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: lived protected in these trees above his former residence. A 150 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: female raised a litter of young in a tree close 151 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,839 Speaker 1: to the house. One day, when the young were about 152 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: one quarter grown, he observed the male trying repeatedly to 153 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: enter the nest, but the female, which in that species 154 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: is the largest of the two, fought him off and 155 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: drove him away. This repeated several times, and the male 156 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: finally desisted. Sometime later, the female went away, apparently to 157 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: gather food. Before she returned, the male reappeared, entered the 158 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: nest and created a great disturbance there, so that the 159 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: doctor climbed the tree and examined the young. He found 160 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: four young quarter grown males and one or two females. 161 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: Three of the young males had been freshly castrated, the 162 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: old male squirrel having bitten their squrotum and testies cleanly 163 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: and smoothly off with his sharp incisors. That's terrifying, that 164 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: is gruesome. So Alan claims that he's had a career 165 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: of squirrel hunting, and he has found castrated adult males, 166 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: but never freshly castrated adult males. And so Andrews considers 167 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: that it would be difficult for an adult male squirrel 168 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: to hold another adult male still enough to bite off 169 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: his testicles, but this might be easier if the victim 170 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: is a juvenile. Thus, he seems to think that Dr 171 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: Allen's story is probably a better explanation for why hunters 172 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: report finding so many castrated squirrels. On the other hand, 173 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: he thinks this is very weird in light of natural selection, 174 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: since it quote would hardly tend to benefit or perpetuate 175 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: the species. Not to be condescending, but this indicates to 176 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: me a kind of poor understanding of the level at 177 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: which natural selection acts. Like members of a species are 178 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: constantly doing things that do not benefit other members of 179 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 1: that same species. Right, there is that there is a 180 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: great deal of selfishness. Again we talk about you know, 181 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: males that are competing with each other for mates, or 182 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: just members of the species in general that are competing 183 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: with other members of the species for resources. Right, but 184 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: that is not at all I think a good argument 185 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: that this is really going on. I'm not sure exactly 186 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 1: how to explain what Alan claims he observed in this 187 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: nest of assuming the story is true, but there are 188 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: a few other reports, so uh. In Spratling's follow up 189 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 1: again in the Journal of the American Medical Association, quote 190 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: how squirrels become unix. This is another volume of JAMA 191 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: and there is just a flurry of letters about squirrel castration. 192 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: The this really seemed to get the turn of the 193 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: century physician engines revving like they were like, oh, I've 194 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: got a squirrel castration story, and they wrote in one 195 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: is from Dr William Spratling of New York, and Spratling 196 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: writes that he spent a lot of years squirrel hunting 197 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: in eastern Alabama with an experienced squirrel hunter in his sixties, 198 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: and one day he shot a young male squirrel to 199 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: discover it had a fresh castration wound. His companion said 200 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: it must have been done by an older male and 201 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: that he had often found young male squirrels like that 202 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: sometimes still in the nest. Spratling asked him why the 203 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: older males did it. His companion replied that Spratling should 204 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: ask the squirrels. Okay, you have to kind of wonder 205 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: if he just shot the squirrel. Perhaps it could have 206 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: been injured in the shooting, but who knows. And of 207 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: course there are a number of different ways of squirrel 208 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,599 Speaker 1: could be injured. You know, let's let's not limit the 209 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: ways that a squirrel can could lose its scrowed them 210 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: to mirror, you know, you know, hunting practices, or the 211 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: the teeth of a rival male. Sure, here's another one. 212 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: This one's a really choice. So this is from Dr. E. H. 213 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: Smith of Santa Clara, California. First, I should know this guy. 214 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: His whole writing style and everything. He sounds a little off. 215 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: So Smith writes that he observed plenty of squirrels in 216 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: southwestern Michigan, and he claims that the adult males do 217 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: indeed fight in order to castrate, looking for opportunities to 218 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,599 Speaker 1: dive beneath one another and bite off the rival squrotum. 219 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 1: He says this is primarily the red squirrels that do this, 220 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: and they do it to other kinds of squirrels for heat. 221 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: For the red squirrel quote is the hardest fighter of 222 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: them all. And Smith says he tested this out by 223 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 1: putting a red squirrel and a ferret in a box 224 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: with each other, quote, expecting of course, that the ferret 225 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: would make short work of the squirrel. Instead, he said 226 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: that the squirrel went right for the ferrets testicles, and 227 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: it was only by Smith intervening to protect the ferret 228 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: with a stick that he avoided the doom chomp of 229 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: the red squirrel. And I just wonder, like, what is 230 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: worse if the guy made this up or if he's 231 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: telling the truth. Yeah, and I do not really like 232 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: this experiment that he claims to have performed. That is 233 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: not a good experiment, that is not rigorous, and it 234 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,599 Speaker 1: is it's also not nice. I'm more comforted by the 235 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: fact that this guy, maybe this was just some fourteen 236 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: year old writing dajama making up a fake identity in 237 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: the story. One last letter from a doctor Samuel J. 238 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: Ford of Elliott City, Maryland, and Fort writes that he'd 239 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: been hunting squirrels for years and has never noticed any 240 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: castrated squirrels. That he admits he hasn't been on the 241 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: lookout for this in particular, and he doubts that the 242 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: biting off procedure could really be done cleanly in a 243 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: way that the victim usually survives, given the shape of 244 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: squirrel incisors, Like if you think about picturing them, they're 245 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: more like, you know, they are kind of chompy, but 246 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: they're narrow. Yeah, the survivability of the wound is something 247 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: that I in my mind keeps turning to because we're 248 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: talking about a pretty grievous injury, but one for for 249 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: enough males to survive. And then you know, so that 250 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: hunters could comment on them, they would need to not 251 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: die of either blood loss or or secondary infection. And yeah, 252 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: that's a very good point. And also think about this again, 253 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: we we mentioned this earlier, but why would there actually 254 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: be any incentive for an older male to do this? 255 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: Why not just kill the rivals? Like, if you're actually 256 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: fighting and there's some kind of serious competition, why not 257 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: just injury or kill? Why this very specific targeted type 258 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: of injury that's so sillacious and the kind of thing 259 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: that a hunter might repeat in in rumor to another. 260 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: But Ford gives a couple of rival explanations for the 261 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: discovery of neutered male squirrels. He says, quote, could it 262 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: not be congenital absence of the organs or failure of 263 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: the organs to descend into the scrotum. I think Fort's 264 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: maybe onto something there, and we can come back to 265 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: that later on when we discuss possible explanations for these stories. 266 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: But he also says, quote, the theory has been advanced 267 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: by many hunters I have met that during the absence 268 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: of the mother squirrel, the young utilize the male appendages 269 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: as teats, and in their in their kind effort to 270 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: produce something that is not there cause in time and 271 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: atrophy of the organs. I don't know if he is 272 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: he making a joke there. I can't maybe I'm not 273 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: reading through the writing style has been he has been 274 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: a victim of a hoax on this one. There are 275 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: somebody else's joke. I mean. One thing that that I 276 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: keep thinking too with each of these doctors is that, yes, 277 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: these appear to be medical doctors. Assuming their realfe assuming 278 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: they're real. But then also just because their medical doctors 279 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: do not mean that they are really they're not biologists 280 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: with any expertise in observing uh, squirrel behavior. This seems 281 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: very or it smacks very much of amateur biology. Yes, 282 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: they're even from someone who who should, by all rights, 283 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: you know, be familiar with the scientific method to to 284 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: a significant extent. These are people who practice human medicine 285 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: and human medicine in the eighteen nineties. These are not 286 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: not squirrel experts. They're not zoologists, they're not animal behaviorists. Um, yeah, 287 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: I don't know so though, on the other hand, we 288 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: do have to deal with Okay, well, at least people 289 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: are making these reports. What do these reports mean? That 290 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: they could certainly be mistaken, But we've got plenty of 291 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: reports of people who claim to have one heard stories 292 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: about squirrel castration from people who deal with a lot 293 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: of squirrels, seen lots of examples of castrated squirrels, both 294 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: young and old, and a few kinds of dubious seeming 295 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: claims of witnessing castration from adult squirrel fights. So despite 296 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: the claims of people to have witnessed it themselves, that 297 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: this really does have all the hallmarks of an urban legend. 298 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: To me, I believe people have found squirrels missing their genitals, 299 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure I buy the causes people have proposed. 300 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: And I keep coming back to this idea, Why this 301 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: one particular gruesome kind of attack. Why not just a 302 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: general fighting attack, an attempt to injure or kill the 303 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: other squirrel? All right, Well, on that note, we're going 304 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: to take a quick break, and when we come back, 305 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: we will look for more answers concerning this myth. Thank you, 306 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: all right, we're back. Okay. So I found a book 307 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: by former National Wildlife Federation executive Warner Shed called Owls 308 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: Aren't Wise and Bats Aren't Blind and Naturalists Debunks our 309 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: favorite fallacies about wildlife, which addresses a version of this 310 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: claim about squirrel castration. So, first of all, Shed is 311 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: writing about this in the context of a chapter on 312 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 1: squirrel myths, specifically the myth that red squirrels drive out 313 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: gray squirrels from any area they inhabit, and Shed writes 314 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: that while it isn't necessarily true that red squirrels will 315 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: drive gray squirrels out of a forest, it is true 316 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,239 Speaker 1: that red squirrels tend to be very territorial and if 317 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: any animal like a gray squirrel, gets too close to 318 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: the red squirrels hidden cash of nuts, the red squirrel 319 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: will sometimes get aggressive and try to chase the gray 320 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: squirrel off. And shed says that this territorial chasing tendency 321 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: might be somehow linked to the version of the castration 322 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: claim that says red squirrels castrate gray squirrels, which he 323 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: claims is simply the result of quote an overheated imagination 324 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: or quote a deliberate tall tale. And he argues that 325 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: it makes no sense for a squirrel to bite another 326 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: squirrels testicles off merely consider the facts. The gray squirrel 327 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,959 Speaker 1: generally weighs from two to three times as much as 328 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: the little red. Even what are normally the most peaceable 329 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: of animals will fight savagely if necessary to protect themselves. 330 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: Nor could a red squirrel, with its little teeth neatly 331 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: snip off the testicles of the gray with one or 332 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: two bites. The notion that the much bigger gray would 333 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: allow its testicles to be gnawed off by this little 334 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: relative is preposterous. Long before that happened, the gray would 335 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: make squirrel hash out of the offending red, and that 336 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: has an exclamation point on it, by the way, that 337 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: is like, so he's really he's really driving it home. 338 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: He also adds that if in general Red's had a 339 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: successful strategy of sterilizing grays, grays would tend to disappear 340 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: in areas where reds existed, and he says this is 341 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: not the case. So it's Shed's judgment that that's his judgment. 342 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: But if he's correct, and squirrels do not castrate each other, 343 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: what should we make of all these reports in jama 344 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: and elsewhere of people finding squirrels with castration wounds all 345 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: over the place. Now, of course it's possible some of 346 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: these could be lies or hoaxes. And I think with 347 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 1: some of the even a couple of those letters into 348 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: jama you have kind of have to wonder. I mean, 349 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: these these supposedly are doctors writing in but I don't 350 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: know that's smith guy. Well, we've discussed time and time 351 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: again that even very educated individuals can either be the 352 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: perpetrators of hoax hoaxes or the victims of hoaxes. And 353 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: then also there's that interesting relationship between the the the 354 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: the what, the hoaxer and the hoaxe um Karl Sagan 355 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: talks about this in the demon Haunted World and points 356 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: whether it's like a magic trick, a magic trick, is 357 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: it is? It is something that exists because of a 358 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: silent pact between the magician and the audience. Yeah, people 359 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: don't want to admit they've been tricked. If they've been tricked, 360 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: even momentarily, they kind of don't want to admit that 361 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: they fell for it, and will fight to defend the 362 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: reality of the illusion. But then again, I don't think 363 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: I would explain all of these cases in terms of hoaxes, 364 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: deliberate hoaxes or tricks. I think in a lot of 365 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: cases you're probably going to be dealing with people who 366 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: were mistaken about what they saw or who were interpreting 367 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: misinterpreting something. So that brings us to the question of 368 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: what else could cause a squirrel to appear incorrectly to 369 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: have suffered this type of injury or attack. Now, there's 370 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: one hypothesis that's pretty far out there. It's not exactly 371 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: a perfect fit, but it is kind of worth a look. 372 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: And this is an explanation put forward by Ernest Thompson Seton, 373 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: who was an early influence on the formation and mythology 374 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 1: of the boy Scouts of America. Uh Seton noted that 375 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: there is a species of parasitic bot fly that is 376 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: an obligate of tree squirrels. Intends to lay eggs in 377 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: the squirrels groin, and these eggs hatch and the larva 378 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: erupt from the skin and it's gross, but the squirrel 379 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: can usually survive it. It doesn't really benefit the bot 380 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: fly to kill its host. And if this larva eruption 381 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: were to happen in the groin as it apparently, sometimes 382 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: US hunters seeing wounds of this kind might think that 383 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: the squirrels had had their groins violently attacked. And this 384 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: bot fly does exist, It's called coutarebra emasculator, or the 385 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: tree squirrel bot fly. And bot flies on their own 386 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: are fascinating subject we we we could return to them endlessly. 387 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: Oh yes. The bot fly also known as the heel fly, 388 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: the gad fly, or my favorite, and especially as it 389 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: relates to squirrels, is the warble fly. Now why is 390 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: that your favorite as it relates to squirrels, Because you 391 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 1: will sometimes see what is often described as a lumpy squirrel. 392 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,959 Speaker 1: If you spend as much time looking at squirrels as 393 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: we have, and certainly any kind of like rural southern environment. 394 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: Then I bet you've either seen or heard of a 395 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: warble squarbled squirrel, a lumpy squirrel. It I remember seeing 396 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: one when I was young and find it found it 397 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: rather grotesque. Why is that squirrel lumpy? What is going 398 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: on with that squirrel? And you're saying a warble fly 399 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: is a good explanation, y Oh, yeah, I mean it is. 400 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: It's it's the explanation. So but again, there are a 401 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: lot of bot flies. They're like something like a hundred 402 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: and fifty species worldwide, and most of their larva are 403 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: obligant parasites of mammals. Their maggots grow in the flesh, 404 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: usually the skin of the animals, sometimes in the gut. 405 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: South America's human bot fly, or Dermatobia home menace, is 406 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: the only species that routinely grows it's young and human flesh. 407 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: And if you're a big time podcast listener, like a 408 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 1: lot of you are, I'm sure you've heard accounts of 409 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: these infections, particularly on w n y c's Radio Lab. 410 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: In particular, evolutionary biologists Jerry Coyne observed the growth of 411 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: a bot fly larva in his own scalp and uh, 412 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: and he remarked on how it was not just growing 413 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: inside of him, but out of him. The resulting creature was, 414 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: in a strange way, part of him. It was like 415 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: like his offspring. I actually read about this in a 416 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: fantastic book in one of my high school biology classes. 417 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: It was a book called Tropical Nature by Adrian Forsyth 418 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: and Kin Miata, and they had a chapter on this 419 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: incident called Jerry's Maggot. That's all about Jerry having the 420 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: bot fly growing out of it. I think it was 421 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: it was out of his head, right, yeah, his scalp um. 422 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: I remember that. That was an eye opening read when 423 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: I was like fourteen or whatever. But that's the human 424 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 1: bot fly. We should get back to this specific squirrel 425 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: a bot fly that we're talking about here, right, Kudeebra emasculadder, 426 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: the tree squirrel bot fly. So it's a parasite of 427 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: tree squirrels and chipmunks. It's found throughout eastern North America. 428 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 1: There are multiple species of kudarebraa bot fly which infect 429 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: different hosts and emasculator as you you can kind of 430 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: hear something going on in the name there It was 431 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: named by the entomologist Asa Fitch based on his mistaken 432 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: belief that the larvae of the species eight the testicles 433 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: of hosts squirrels, and the hypothesis about this being the 434 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: explanation for apparent squirrel castration is not as strong as 435 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: it once was. Maybe isn't as strong now as when 436 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: um Seaton proposed it, since scientists actually no longer believe 437 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: that the grubs of the bot fly eat the squirrels gonads. 438 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: I was reading more recent stuff about the spot fly, 439 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: and it looks like there's not any particular tendency or 440 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: attention of the spot fly to concentrate in the groin 441 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: or the genitals or anything. But then again, it need 442 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: not actually eat the gonads to be interpreted as such 443 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 1: by a like about an average like hunter or even 444 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: a medical doctor who just picks up a squirrel or 445 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 1: sees one trotting around on the defense. Right, right, so 446 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: maybe say, oh, that's a kind of a bloody scrotum. 447 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: I wonder what's going on there. The explanation must be, uh, 448 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: this weird squirrel scrotum attacking explanation, right, So maybe they 449 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: just see a bot fly some kind of weird growth 450 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: or protuberants that looks a nasty somewhere on the underside 451 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: of a squirrel, and they're like, Oh, what happened there? 452 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: But I don't know. So it's possible this could explain 453 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: some occasional observations of genital injuries and squirrels, but I 454 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: would say this doesn't really seem like a good general 455 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: explanation for all of the observations. Now, Joe, I do 456 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: have to return to the Tennessee and aspects of this 457 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: story for a second. Um. I worked for a small 458 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: Tennessee newspaper back in two thousand four, and I definitely 459 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: remember information pieces that we published covering this vital question. 460 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,479 Speaker 1: Is it safe to skin and eat a lumpy squirrel? 461 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: That's some service journalism, it is. I mean, you've given 462 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: You've given the people what they need and what they 463 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: need to know. Um which I remember being horrified by 464 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: this because I'd seen a warrib old squirrel and my 465 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: first thought was, I wonder if I can eat that. 466 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: I would think I'm going to pass on the war 467 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: bold squirrel and maybe go with one of these non 468 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: warb old um squirrel specimens. Squirrel fritters are on the 469 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: menu tonight. And I'm I've got a hurt and for 470 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: some squirrel meat? Will this do in a pinch? Well? 471 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: So I looked into it a little bit to see 472 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: if I could find some more recent examples of this 473 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: same kind of of journalism, and I did run across 474 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: the one from two thousand seven in the Chattanoogan, Chattanooga, Tennessee. 475 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: And there's a quote in it in the peace from 476 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 1: wildlife biologist Alex Coley, Department of Natural Resources, Wildlife Resources Division, 477 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 1: and he says, quote, the good news is that the 478 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: lumps many hunters are observing are not tumors. In fact, 479 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: they are caused by warbles, which are bought fly larva 480 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: growing just under the squirrel skin. Robert, why are you 481 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: making me wait to find out if I can eat 482 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: it or not? All right, Well, hold on, Joe. The 483 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: Wildlife Resources Division or w r D here advises squirrel 484 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,479 Speaker 1: hunters across the state. The consumption of affected squirrels is safe. 485 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: Once the squirrel is skinned. The parasites come off with 486 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: the hide. Because the larva are strictly on the skin 487 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: of the squirrel. The squirrel meat remains unaffected unless there 488 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: is a secondary infection. But do you trust yourself to 489 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: know if there's a secondary infection. I guess not, but 490 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: you know, I think that the other Another take come 491 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: here is that eating bot flies is an actually that crazy. 492 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: There's actually evidence from Paleolithic art that indicates that early 493 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: humans may have eaten reindeer bot flies rather routinely. Uh, 494 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: and the practice seems to have survived among Inuit people. 495 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: I was reading a book titled The Nature of Paleolithic 496 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: Art by our Dale Guthrie, and Guthrie writes there are 497 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: thousands of images that can give us a more rounded 498 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: view of Paleolithic people in their times, images that are 499 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: not customarily shown in coffee table volumes. Take, for example, 500 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: these little worm like creatures from Paleolithic art. Eskimo from 501 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: northern Alaska to light in eating the large spring maggots 502 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: or larvae of the reindeer warble fly. I suspect your 503 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: Asian people did the same in the Paleolithic. This is 504 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: one of the few insects eaten by the Northern people. 505 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: When the reindeer are killed, the highe is skin back 506 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: and the warbles are exposed on the underside, they are 507 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: fat and salty. A spring treat I have tried them 508 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: several times during this time of year. Many people in 509 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: the village have sore throats from the raspers of the 510 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: maggot sides. I'm struggling here because I make a strong 511 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 1: effort not to stigmatize what other people eat, but the 512 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 1: image of the raspers scraping the inside of the throat 513 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: is disturbing me. It is, it's a little it's a 514 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,439 Speaker 1: little much to take, um. But I mean, I do 515 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: not have any issue with with eating insects. I think 516 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: eating insects has been a practice by human beings for 517 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: a very long time, and very sustainable, very sustainable. It will, 518 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: I think invariably become a part of increasingly a part 519 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: of our diet as as we continue to figure out 520 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: how to survive in this world of of exhaustible resources. 521 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: Uh So, it's a very good and clever thing to do. 522 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: I think I have an irrational bias against it, Yes, 523 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: But it's the raspers, yeah, and the throat that that 524 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: is a little, a little bit much to take. So yeah, 525 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: we kind of this has been kind of a detour 526 00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: from the basic scuirrel castration um discussion, but I think 527 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: we needed a detour, even though this one was a 528 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: little bit gruesome in its own. Yeah, we needed to 529 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: depart from the nastiness of squirrels and discuss something refreshing 530 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: like bot fly consumption. So let's solve this mystery. What 531 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: is it? Okay, So we think that the the bot 532 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: fly on the squirrel's growing might explain some sightings, but 533 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: probably not all of them. Another thing that that occurred 534 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: to me as a possibility is you've got this thing 535 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: called squirrel parapox virus or squirrel pox, which can cause 536 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: swelling or the appearance of tumors or lesions around parts 537 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,479 Speaker 1: of the squirrel's body, including the genital area. But this 538 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: disease has only been observed to exist in the past 539 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: few decades. It does not seem like a very good 540 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: explanation either. But then there is one explanation that is 541 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: head slapping lee simple and while it doesn't necessarily explain 542 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: all of the supposed observations people have claimed, if you 543 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: assume they're telling the truth about what they saw, it 544 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: does seem to explain a lot. It probably explains a lot. 545 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: And this is from Mammals of the Eastern Unite did 546 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: States by John O. Whittaker, William John, and William John 547 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: Hamilton's from Cornell University Press in this is their much 548 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: more mundane explanation quote. Many people think that red squirrels, 549 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: even though smaller, dominate gray squirrels and drive them out 550 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: of their territories, and even that they castrate them. The 551 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: latter story probably arose from someone's observing how often red 552 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: squirrels chase gray squirrels. This goes along with what shed 553 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: was saying about their territoriality, but picking up with the 554 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: quote then linking that observation with the apparent lack of 555 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: test ees in gray squirrels, which are abdominal in the 556 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: non breeding season, so testicular attraction. This is very smart 557 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: strategy for plenty of animals in the time when you 558 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: don't need them on the outside, they come up on 559 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: the inside. This would also make sense given the the 560 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: The idea that we've seen presented here is that the 561 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: testicles have not been freshly chewed off. No, they must 562 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: have been chewed off earlier and the animal has healed, 563 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: And so this does not seem to explain the direct 564 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: observation of wounds that a few of the authors here 565 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: have claimed to witness. If again, if we assume those 566 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: accounts are true, but this does seem like a really 567 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: good explanation for why hunters who don't necessarily know better 568 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: would find male squirrels without testicles. Uh, they only descend 569 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: into a temporary scrotum during the breeding season anyway, So 570 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: during the non breeding season, the organs were tracked up 571 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: into the abdomen. Hunter maybe shoots one, picks it up, 572 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: doesn't see anything, and it's like, WHOA, something weird happened 573 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: to the squirrel must be related to that gruesome rumor 574 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: I heard years ago. It's sort of like saying, what 575 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: is chewing the landing gear off of these airplanes? It 576 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: must be gremlins, because I don't see them at all, 577 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: So I think I don't know. I think that's a 578 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: pretty good explanation. I am fairly convinced by that one 579 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: that that probably explains most of what people have seen. 580 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: So maybe some combination of seeing squirrels with just naturally 581 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: occurring injuries, seeing squirrels with some kind of botful by 582 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: growth in the growing area, and then just lots of 583 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: hunters finding squirrels in the non breeding season without external 584 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: test ees. It seems like you put all those together 585 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: and you add in a little bit of whiskey in 586 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: the woods, and this turns into hunters telling a story 587 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: about gruesome castration rituals which do not exist. And it's 588 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: ultimately a story that that makes more sense in light 589 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: of what we know about little squirrel behavior, but just 590 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: also the general behavior of territorial animals. Now, as for 591 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: those first hand accounts in jama where they say, no, 592 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: I saw this happening firsthand, I saw them do it, 593 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe some of these wounds could be 594 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: explained by random fighting having a weird kind of outcome, 595 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: but I don't know. As we said earlier, some of 596 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: those doctors writing in just sounded a little bit off, 597 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: Like I don't know if you should believe their stories. 598 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: I don't know if we really need to bother with E. H. 599 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: Smith and his his ferret and red squirrel in the 600 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: box experiment. I'm gonna I'm just gonna hope that he 601 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: made that up and it didn't really happen. I'm just 602 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: gonna assume that as well, Joe, that that it was 603 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: just just a fanciful story that he made. But anyway, 604 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: so if you had your vision of squirrels marred by 605 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: the discovery that they will sometimes eat carry in or 606 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: sometimes hunt prey. In the last episode, maybe you should 607 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: rest a little bit easier now if you'd previously heard 608 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: the castration myth and thinking it's probably not true. All Right, 609 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna take one more break, and when we come back, 610 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: we have two more tidbits about the squirrel, neither of 611 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: which is violent. So stay tuned, thank you, thank you. Alright, 612 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: we're back now, I said, neither of the examples we're 613 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: gonna look at here violence. I guess one is by 614 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: some definition self violence. But we'll see, we'll see, we'll see. 615 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: So I do want to talk briefly about hibernation and 616 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: ground squirrel neuroplasticity. That sounds interesting now. In our recent episode, uh, 617 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: in our two thousand one of Space Odyssey episode, we 618 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: talked a little bit about this. Yeah, we were talking 619 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: about space hibernation and how this isn't really a post 620 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: ability for humans yet. We haven't discovered any kind of 621 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: technology that will allow us to hibernate for long space journeys. 622 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: But you talked about the idea of hot sleep and 623 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 1: how that relates to squirrel hot sleep. That being h 624 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: a some terminology from the science fiction of Worsen Scott 625 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: card the idea that you have the individuals in the 626 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: sci fi world and they're they're put into an artificial 627 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: UH slumber for long trips, but it's not pleasant. It's 628 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: it's like the sweating ordeal. And what we're gonna discuss 629 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,919 Speaker 1: here actually reminds me a lot of that. So Arctic 630 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: ground squirrels have long been of interest to science for 631 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: their hibernation abilities, and we've mentioned them on the show before. 632 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: Back in Zoo physiologist Brian Barne of the University of Alaska, 633 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,439 Speaker 1: he commented on how the hibernation of the Arctic ground 634 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 1: school is more like a months long bout of insomnia. 635 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: That sounds horrible. Yeah, it sounds like hot sleep to 636 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: make Yeah. He pointed out that they lowered their body 637 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 1: temperature below freezing, but they but they don't stay that way. 638 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: They undergo cyclical rewarmings once or twice a month. And 639 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: the rewarming must be important because it uses roughly eight 640 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: of the fat stores UH in order to do it, 641 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: So a lot of energy is expended to come out 642 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: of of of the freeze and then go back down 643 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: into it again. So we're not just talking about rewarming 644 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: at the end of hibernation. So Barnes theory at the 645 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: time was that they had to warm up to actually sleep, 646 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,760 Speaker 1: that cold brains can't sleep, that the torper might stave 647 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: off sleep for days or weeks, but they'd eventually be 648 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: forced to warm up in order to get that vital slumber. Uh. 649 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: He's worked with the Institute of Artic Biology ever since 650 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,359 Speaker 1: and has devoted a great deal of research to mammalian hibernation. Uh. 651 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: If if you look up like squirrel hibernation um on 652 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: the Internet and you look for for peer of your papers, 653 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: you will run across his work. He's taken the creature's temperatures, 654 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: he's measured their activity along their neural pathways as well, 655 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: and he's found that the creature's brain is quite resilient, 656 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 1: as you might expect from such a cheater of death 657 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: as the as the Arctic ground squirrel. During hibernation, the 658 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: neuron shrink and connection shrivel, but the creature's brain makes 659 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,760 Speaker 1: up for this by undergoing growth spurts that multiplied neural 660 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 1: links back to previous levels and even beyond it. Oh weird. 661 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: So this is a very strange alternate version of the 662 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: neuro plasticity. Model. Yeah, yeah, that this is this is 663 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 1: kind of a wonder species for people who are researching 664 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,280 Speaker 1: neuroplasticity in ways to potential potentially boost it in humans. 665 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: Now we know, like in humans, the neuroplasticity model you 666 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: often have is that children tend to make a whole 667 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: lot of connections in the brain, and then over time 668 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: those connections are sort of pruned back, limiting potential as 669 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: as time goes on and maturity develops in the body 670 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: and the child eventually becomes more neuro stable. But here 671 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: you're seeing a renewal of a type of infantile neuroplasticity 672 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: in the adult ground squirrel as hibernates. Yeah, I mean basically, 673 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: it boost neural plasticity in order to repair everything that 674 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: it loses during this hibernation process. So, no matter what 675 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: you think of other squirrels and your distrust of other squirrels, 676 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: the art at ground squirrel is is a very attractive 677 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: species to scientists for a number of reasons. Cracking the 678 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: inner workings of its hibernation adaptations could allow us to 679 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: engineer neuroplasticity treatments, to improve organ transplantation, and devise ways 680 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: to place human space travelers into some form of of 681 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: hot sleep for a prolonged space mission. Oh good, that 682 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: sounds great. Thanks, thanks squirrels. All right, we'll have one 683 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: more bit of squirrel data to share with everyone. Is 684 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: it going to be something shocking? I hope it's Lit's not. 685 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think there's anything left that can 686 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: truly shock us at this point in our squirrel exploration. 687 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 1: This one's more humorous. So cape ground squirrels have a 688 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: scrowed them that takes up of their body length, with 689 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: a penis twice as long as that in other it's 690 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,959 Speaker 1: so it's another product of the the evolutionary mating arms race. 691 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,320 Speaker 1: The males have been observed to engage in auto filatio 692 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: and consume the ejected reproductive murial material, which of course 693 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: only makes sense. We've discussed animal cannibalism in the same light. 694 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: It's energy. What what what do you? What do you? What? 695 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: What should do with it? Why just waste it? You 696 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: got to like put it back into the business. Right, 697 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: So that makes sense. But but ultimately people asked, well 698 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 1: why do they do that? Indeed, why does any species 699 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,759 Speaker 1: engage in in masturbation? Well, there's the sexual outlet hypothesis 700 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: that arousal must be dismissed. Uh, and that makes sense, right, 701 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,359 Speaker 1: You've just got this arowse squirrel. It's got to do 702 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: something with all this uh this, you know, this energy 703 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: that it has now and it might as well release 704 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: it so it can get on with nut collecting and 705 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: what have you. But then there's another idea that it 706 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: might be because they has to flush out the old 707 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: sperm so that the creature has fresher sperm that it 708 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: can utilize for mating. Is there an expiry date on that? 709 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 1: Essentially it would be like an innate knowledge of the 710 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:14,320 Speaker 1: exploration data, I guess. But then uh. Biologist Jane Waterman 711 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,759 Speaker 1: weighed in on the matter uh and uh, at least 712 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,320 Speaker 1: as it concerns cape ground squirrels, and pointed out that 713 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: dominant males actually do this the most, the ones who 714 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 1: shouldn't have to masturbate if the sexual outlet view is correct. 715 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: They also did it more after sex than before, seemingly 716 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: a blow against the sperm quality hypothesis. She also dismissed 717 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: the ideas that it's done as as a as a 718 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: signal to potential mates or to competitors, because the pattern 719 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,879 Speaker 1: wasn't there, so you just don't see them doing it 720 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: at the times where it would make sense if it 721 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: was about communicating to other squirrels. Well, so what is 722 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,359 Speaker 1: Waterman's explanation. Her explanation or her her hypothesis here is 723 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,360 Speaker 1: that they masturbate and in doing so reduce the odds 724 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,760 Speaker 1: of catching an std. She points out that the human 725 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: males may urinate after sex sort of clean things out, 726 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: and that cape ground squirrels rarely urinate due to their 727 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:14,319 Speaker 1: desert environment. So what's what's a squirrel to do if 728 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: it doesn't urinate frequently, what can it possibly do to 729 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,840 Speaker 1: clean out that tract? Masturbation provides an answer that seems 730 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: like a reasonable explanation, though I truly did not know 731 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: we would end up in this place. Yes, I think 732 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,399 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a a happy ending for these 733 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: two episodes that we should end not with visions of 734 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 1: meat eating squirrels or scrowed them chewing squirrels, squirrels engaging 735 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:41,359 Speaker 1: in mortal Kombat with snakes, but instead simply a masturbating 736 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: squirrel in the desert trying to stay healthy. Yeah, just 737 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,399 Speaker 1: staying healthy sounds good to me. Now we do hope 738 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: these episodes have helped you look at squirrels in a 739 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: different way, to see them not just as you know 740 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,359 Speaker 1: tree rats running around in your yard, but something that 741 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 1: is in its own right and evolutionary marvel, something that's 742 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: engaged in a struggle for survive of all and and 743 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,320 Speaker 1: faces that struggle with a lot of alarming and surprising tools. 744 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 1: But we certainly do not hope that you will go 745 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,800 Speaker 1: away from this with any kind of animus towards squirrels 746 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 1: or any desire to harm them. We don't want to 747 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: encourage that squirrels are part of the natural world too, 748 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: and they don't deserve any kind of vilification, even though 749 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,720 Speaker 1: it might be kind of shocking to learn the truth 750 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,280 Speaker 1: about them since we see them so often but usually 751 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: don't suspect these things, right, Yeah, don't go hurt any 752 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 1: squirrels on our account. But of course, if you were 753 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,359 Speaker 1: already killing and eating squirrels, uh, let us know how 754 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: that goes for you. If what's your experience with squirrel 755 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 1: hunting and warbles and uh in in various bits of 756 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 1: you know, urban or rural legend about squirrels biting each other, 757 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,319 Speaker 1: did you hear the squirrel castration urban legend. Where did 758 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: you hear it? And what variant on it? What sort 759 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: of explanation was presented to you. We would love to 760 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 1: hear about any of that. In the meantime, head on 761 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 1: over to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That's 762 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: where we'll find all the episodes of the pod casks, 763 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 1: going all the way back to the beginning. You'll find 764 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 1: links out to our various social media accounts where you 765 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: can follow us and keep up with what we're doing, 766 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,360 Speaker 1: including Facebook where we have that fabulous Facebook group. The 767 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: discussion module that is a really great place if you 768 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 1: want to, uh, you know, get into conversations with other 769 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: listeners about the topics we've covered, about topics we could 770 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 1: cover about unrelated things. Ask ask ask ask us questions. 771 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: Go check it out. That's the Stuff Table your Mind 772 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: discussion module. And hey, while you're at our website, click 773 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: on that store button at the top of the website 774 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 1: because that's where you'll find all these cool T shirts 775 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,320 Speaker 1: and stickers and coffee MUDs, any just about anything you 776 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,839 Speaker 1: could put our new logo on. It is available to you. Yeah, 777 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: merch up, get yourself a Sphere Catastrophe t shirt. Yeah, 778 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 1: that one's really really rad. I recommend it big. Thank 779 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: you as always to our wonderful audio producers Alex Williams 780 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 1: and Tarry Harrison. If you would like to get in 781 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 1: touch with us directly to let us know feedback on 782 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: this episode or any other, to let us know if 783 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: you've ever heard any squirrel Caster action, urban legends, or 784 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: anything like that, to suggest a topic for a future episode, 785 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 1: or just to say hi, you can email us at 786 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 1: blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com for 787 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,440 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it 788 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:30,919 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com, lovegen