Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to woka F Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. This week on woke a
Speaker 1: F we are reflecting on the year of Hate and
Speaker 1: I've selected some of our interviews over the years to
Speaker 1: recap and one of my favorites was my conversation with
Speaker 1: the author of One Drop, Shifting the lens on race,
Speaker 1: doctor Yaba Blay. I have followed Yabba for many, many
Speaker 1: years and her book One Drop really provided deep context
Speaker 1: to our core understanding of colorism. Now let me provide
Speaker 1: you with the Oxford Dictionary definition of colorism prejudice or
Speaker 1: discrimination against individuals with a dark skin tone, typically among
Speaker 1: people of the same ethnic or racial group. This is
Speaker 1: according to Wikipedia, discrimination based on skin color, also known
Speaker 1: as colorism or shadism, is a form of prejudice and
Speaker 1: or discrimination in which people who share similar ethnicity, traits,
Speaker 1: or perceived race are treated differently based on the social
Speaker 1: implications that come with the cultural meanings that are attached
Speaker 1: to skin color. Colorism is a serious issue. It's one
Speaker 1: that I have seen play out in this country in
Speaker 1: other countries. In my family's home country of Jamaica, I
Speaker 1: thought it was really interesting recently when I was kind
Speaker 1: of going through photos of past prime ministers in Jamaica
Speaker 1: in particular, and realizing that they all had a similar
Speaker 1: look to them. Super fair skin, right, very very fair skin,
Speaker 1: their hair texture would be very similar to those of
Speaker 1: white people. And they've always been in charge of an
Speaker 1: island that is largely filled with people whose skin tone
Speaker 1: look like mine. And what does that say, right, how
Speaker 1: do we absorb that? And what it is said is
Speaker 1: that white supremacy is a hell of a fucking drug.
Speaker 1: That regardless of if you grew up right in a country,
Speaker 1: in a place that there was an overwhelming presence of
Speaker 1: darker skinned people, that sadly, you could not say that
Speaker 1: you were unaffected by white supremacy. My sisters, she was
Speaker 1: traveling around Asia, would tell me that she would never
Speaker 1: pick up skincare products, whether it be something as simple
Speaker 1: as a lotion or a body wash, and bring it
Speaker 1: home that everything that she would use right when she
Speaker 1: was living abroad would be from the United States. I'd say,
Speaker 1: why because of the bleaching elements you see in many countries,
Speaker 1: including many on the continent of Africa. Bleaching is a
Speaker 1: common practice where you either use different skincare products or
Speaker 1: actually just dip yourself in pure fucking bleach so that
Speaker 1: you can get lighter. Because the crime of white supremacy
Speaker 1: has meant that the closer you are to whiteness, the
Speaker 1: better you are. It doesn't matter if you are dipping
Speaker 1: yourself in a toxin that could destroy your skin, cause cancer, blindness,
Speaker 1: severe rashes, bleeding. That the desire to be fairer skin
Speaker 1: outweighs the pain, the pain of what it would mean
Speaker 1: to exist in a darker skinned body. Think about that.
Speaker 1: My sister would tell me that, particularly in Asia in
Speaker 1: the hotter temperature months, that you would see people completely covered,
Speaker 1: wearing gloves, carrying parasols because the idea of your skin
Speaker 1: not resembling that of porcelain was problematic. Why because of
Speaker 1: the toxicity of white supremacy. Because of the export that
Speaker 1: has been done from European nations and America that sends
Speaker 1: images and videos of the blue, wide, blonde hair, fair skin,
Speaker 1: people who live these wonderful lives and are wealthy, and
Speaker 1: are adored and are considered attractive, whose characteristics, whose physical
Speaker 1: characteristics are used as yardsticks for the rest of the world,
Speaker 1: which is majority people of color, to measure themselves against.
Speaker 1: It's why during the Jim Crow error and time, we
Speaker 1: had something in the United States called the brown paperbag test,
Speaker 1: which is that if your skin was lighter than a
Speaker 1: brown paper bag, then you were accepted, you were welcomed
Speaker 1: in to certain places. If it was not, you might
Speaker 1: as well be trash on a curb. It's why doctor
Speaker 1: Yaba Blay had started a social media campaign that spawned
Speaker 1: into so much more called Pretty Period. And she asked
Speaker 1: me many years ago if I would participate as a
Speaker 1: darker skinned woman that we had always been told, and
Speaker 1: it had been perceived to be a compliment that you
Speaker 1: are pretty for a dark skinned girl, and her concept
Speaker 1: of you are pretty period full stop was to be
Speaker 1: a campaign that would empower darker skinned women and girls
Speaker 1: throughout the diaspora. You know, it pains me sometimes when
Speaker 1: I recognize just how pervasive white supremacy is, just how
Speaker 1: you know, you want to talk about a pandemic of
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen and yet we don't talk about the pandemic
Speaker 1: of white supremacy and how it has spread around the
Speaker 1: world as a virus has infected every industry, every space,
Speaker 1: every piece of policy and legislation that we have in
Speaker 1: this country has been dictated by whether or not we
Speaker 1: should give a damn, whether we should extend empathy is
Speaker 1: based on people's skin. There is a meme that has
Speaker 1: gone around for so long with the family guy and
Speaker 1: you hold up the piece of paper that shows the
Speaker 1: gradiations of whiteness, and then it moves into olive and
Speaker 1: then finally darker skin tones, and it dictates to you,
Speaker 1: based on the gradiation, whether or not you should be
Speaker 1: considered a terrorist, store alone wolf, for somebody with mental illness.
Speaker 1: You see, those memes exist because it's reality. It's reality
Speaker 1: when you walk down the street, when you go and
Speaker 1: try and you know, go into a store. How you
Speaker 1: are looked at, how you are perceived, doesn't matter how
Speaker 1: clean you are or how pressed your clothes are. It
Speaker 1: isn't the content of your character. It isn't the amount
Speaker 1: of degrees. It's about the depths of your melanine. And
Speaker 1: what's sad is that in every country that you go into,
Speaker 1: you understand their relationship to colorism based on who's in charge,
Speaker 1: who gets to pull the lovers of power. I remember
Speaker 1: being in India, traveling in India so many years ago
Speaker 1: and part of my family immigrated from Calcutta, India to Jamaica,
Speaker 1: so I have lineage that is Indian and I had
Speaker 1: never felt so different, so othered, and imagine this, I'm
Speaker 1: from fucking America than when I was in India. It
Speaker 1: was wild to me. People were staring and pointing, right
Speaker 1: because I was so dark. But what was wild is
Speaker 1: that there were people who were doing that that were
Speaker 1: darker than me. Right. You see what we get exported
Speaker 1: from India in Bollywood with regard to what it looks
Speaker 1: like to be Indian is the you know, the Primillagia
Speaker 1: Pauls right, the Prianka Chopras right, the fairer skinned, long
Speaker 1: hair people, when in fact they have every color, every
Speaker 1: depth of melanin that you can imagine. But based on
Speaker 1: their cast system and based on their worthiness that if
Speaker 1: you are a darker skinned person, you are just less desirable.
Speaker 1: And why is that? Oh? Well, because the British ruled
Speaker 1: them for so goddamn long. You know, I often wonder
Speaker 1: and if I was like a you know, like a
Speaker 1: director or a screenwriter, I still want to see a
Speaker 1: genre of sci fi that would tackle what the world
Speaker 1: would look like if white supremacy hadn't grabbed it and
Speaker 1: strangled it and had hold over the globe for so
Speaker 1: many years, thousands of years, Right, I wonder what we
Speaker 1: would look like, how we would be, how we would tolerate,
Speaker 1: accept love people, or if we would then, because of
Speaker 1: human nature, just look for another way to other people
Speaker 1: to isolate them. But this conversation that I have with
Speaker 1: doctor Yaba Blay about colorism really delves into the depths
Speaker 1: of what still needs to be unpacked about white supremacy
Speaker 1: and about racism and how it is internalized. Right, you know,
Speaker 1: you have people these quote unquote black Republicans are Latin
Speaker 1: extra Republicans that believe that their proximity to whiteness, even
Speaker 1: if they actually look like me, their proximity to whiteness
Speaker 1: will somehow save them. And the reality is is that
Speaker 1: in a crowd, in a mob, they gonna look the
Speaker 1: same as me. So it's wild to believe that either
Speaker 1: the physical shifting of your skin or your ideology will
Speaker 1: allow you to access something that the white world has
Speaker 1: never wanted you to access, which is true liberty and freedom,
Speaker 1: which is to break outside of our global cast system
Speaker 1: that is designed by the depth of your melanin. What
Speaker 1: would it mean to live outside of that box, to
Speaker 1: live outside of that distortion, to have not contracted the
Speaker 1: virus of white supremacy and internalized colorism. The conversation coming
Speaker 1: up next with doctor Yaba Blay will help to provide
Speaker 1: some perspective and insight into how we deal with, how
Speaker 1: we talk about, and how we deconstruct colorism. Folks, I'm
Speaker 1: always so excited and honored when I get to bring
Speaker 1: some folks that I follow, friends, colleagues back to woke
Speaker 1: f And if you've been following me for a long time,
Speaker 1: you've heard me have the pleasure of speaking with doctor
Speaker 1: Yaba Blay. You know her as an academic, the founder
Speaker 1: of Professional Black Girl on Instagram, the author of the
Speaker 1: award winning book One Drop of Putting a Lens on Race,
Speaker 1: A doctor that covers colorism, white supremacy, anti blackness, and
Speaker 1: basically everything that upsets our souls as black people. Doctor
Speaker 1: Yaba Blay, Welcome back to woke f Daily. Thank you
Speaker 1: doing good to be here this month. The world seems
Speaker 1: shocked once again with the understanding that white supremacy exists
Speaker 1: and as a thing, and it doesn't matter if you
Speaker 1: are a princess. If you are the greatest athlete of
Speaker 1: all time, I'm talking about Serena Williams. It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if you're a Beyonce, it doesn't matter what heights you
Speaker 1: have achieved. White supremacy will find its way to try
Speaker 1: and pull you down. I wanted to get your initial
Speaker 1: reaction to the media's response to the Meghan Markle and
Speaker 1: Oprah Winfrey and Harry interview and the understanding that someone
Speaker 1: right in the royal family was commenting on her unborn
Speaker 1: child Archie at the time, wondering how dark he was
Speaker 1: going to be, and all of the things that happened
Speaker 1: following that, the loss of security, literal protection for her,
Speaker 1: for her child, for herself, and essentially being thrown to
Speaker 1: the wolves in the UK. What were your reactions to
Speaker 1: that story. I had quite a few reactions. I'm constantly
Speaker 1: trying to reground myself and with whole judgment and annoyance
Speaker 1: with the rest of the world, because I continually remind
Speaker 1: myself that these aren't average conversations that everybody has all
Speaker 1: the time, and so I'm privileged in that surrounded by
Speaker 1: some very dope and brilliant folks. You know, we have
Speaker 1: challenging conversations regularly, but the average person does not. I
Speaker 1: watched that interview with my seventy eight year old gunny
Speaker 1: and mother, who has long been fascinated by the magical
Speaker 1: world of the royals. So Princess Diana was her girl,
Speaker 1: you know, and I know she was front and center
Speaker 1: watching Harry and Megan's wedding, as was much of the world,
Speaker 1: and so we watched the interview together. Of course, she
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna miss that. And so there's that moment when
Speaker 1: Megan reveals that there were questions about Archie's complexion, and
Speaker 1: you know what's now been meaned over and over again.
Speaker 1: Oprah's response that right. My mom had a very similar reaction,
Speaker 1: and I just looked at her and I'm like, Mom,
Speaker 1: like who colonised Ghanna? Right? And like you are you right?
Speaker 1: You're right, same people and they don't have to change.
Speaker 1: And so for me, the kind of frustration, I almost
Speaker 1: feel like, are we gaslighting ourselves? You know? And so
Speaker 1: there are a couple things perhaps that are happening. I
Speaker 1: think from an American perspective, right, the idea that we
Speaker 1: are surprised may be connected to our limited vantage vantage
Speaker 1: point on what the UK is or who the UK
Speaker 1: is for folks who haven't had the opportunity to travel,
Speaker 1: or don't know folks who live there or whatever. Right,
Speaker 1: whatever we know about the UK is what the media
Speaker 1: has given us. And I think for many Americans, we have,
Speaker 1: like my mother been, you know, swept off of our
Speaker 1: feet by the whole idea of a royal family and
Speaker 1: a crown and all of those kinds of like magical
Speaker 1: images that we get, and not as much familiarity with
Speaker 1: what it means to be black in that space, right,
Speaker 1: experience of blackness in that space. Um, And so the surprise,
Speaker 1: I don't know, in general, I wonder why we're surprised,
Speaker 1: Like are we gaslighting ourselves? Right? Why would we? I'm
Speaker 1: I was surprised a that Harry was allowed to marry
Speaker 1: her in the first place. That was that was that
Speaker 1: was my initial shock. So maybe that's that's why folks
Speaker 1: are surprised. Maybe they assumed that if he was allowed
Speaker 1: and I'm using that language very deliberately, if he was
Speaker 1: allowed to marry Meg and Marco, that perhaps, um, the
Speaker 1: royal family or the UK was more liberal than they
Speaker 1: actually are. Maybe that's where the surprise comes. From But
Speaker 1: I tried to stay offline a little bit the next
Speaker 1: day because I already knew it was gonna be, you know,
Speaker 1: a ship show in terms of all of the conversations
Speaker 1: around it. But I think it's that surprised the shock
Speaker 1: um that was most annoying to me, because again, in
Speaker 1: the same way that I asked my mom, it's like,
Speaker 1: what is it that we know about the UK? Like,
Speaker 1: I'm not a historian, but I'm so very very aware
Speaker 1: of how important history is to my work, to providing
Speaker 1: contexts to the work that I do and the work
Speaker 1: that so many people do and want to do around
Speaker 1: anti racism. If you attempt to have a conversation about
Speaker 1: anti racism that starts with George Floyd's murder, that starts
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, problem, right, Yeah, that history to ground
Speaker 1: you right to have an understanding of how we got
Speaker 1: here in the first place. So what is it that
Speaker 1: you need to know about global history to understand what
Speaker 1: that crown represents? Right? Where does the jewels and the
Speaker 1: crown come from? M to see what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: if you're clear about that history, you should absolutely not
Speaker 1: be surprised that there are conversations about this child's complexion,
Speaker 1: because as far as their concerned, Megan Markle and I
Speaker 1: are the same complexion, you know. It was one of
Speaker 1: the one tweet that I saw that said and it
Speaker 1: was a it was a it was a black woman
Speaker 1: who who tweeted it, and I would say that she's
Speaker 1: in the realm of you know, of darker chocolate, right,
Speaker 1: and she was like, if Megan looked like me, we
Speaker 1: wouldn't even be having this conversation. So when you talk
Speaker 1: about the allowed, right, the you know, being allowed, it
Speaker 1: was it was somebody who wrote and I'm so upset
Speaker 1: that I can't remember. They're like, colorism is what allowed
Speaker 1: Megan Markle to marry into that family, and colorism is
Speaker 1: what had her flee the country. And so I want
Speaker 1: you for for for for the audience to unpack that
Speaker 1: sentiment of what that means, because it hit me and
Speaker 1: I was just like, you're absolutely goddamn right. I think
Speaker 1: that was something to the except that, yes, colorism is
Speaker 1: what allowed her to marry in white supremacy as well
Speaker 1: kicked out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in speaking of colorism, right,
Speaker 1: we were talking about the hierarchical perceptions of and the
Speaker 1: value associated with skin color and what's important to me.
Speaker 1: Oftentimes when people talk about colorism, we talk about it
Speaker 1: like it is an what am I trying to say?
Speaker 1: An internal issue, like this is what we black people
Speaker 1: and so called people of color due to ourselves. I
Speaker 1: don't ever want to just connect colorism from white supremacy.
Speaker 1: Colorism is symptom of white supremacy. Right. Colorism is how
Speaker 1: we internalize white supremacy. If white supremacy is an ideology,
Speaker 1: is an institution, is a way of of you know,
Speaker 1: a lens on the world, if you will, that situates
Speaker 1: whiteness as I mean, the language says supremacy. Again, when
Speaker 1: I say white premacy, people get uncomfortable because they are
Speaker 1: conflating white supremacy with white supremacists, meaning you're only thinking
Speaker 1: of a clan, your only thing, right, frederate flags Right.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about white supremacy as a historical ideology and
Speaker 1: institution that gives us valuations of human value, and those
Speaker 1: valuations are based on a hierarchy that puts supreme value,
Speaker 1: ultimate value, highest value in white bodies, in white histories,
Speaker 1: in white experience, in whiteness. Right. Much of the history
Speaker 1: of the world operated from this space. Why is it
Speaker 1: then that it was European countries that colonized African countries
Speaker 1: and the rest of the world. Why is it now
Speaker 1: that Europe still has colonies? Language is important? Why should
Speaker 1: Europe be in power? Why should Africa be controlled by
Speaker 1: external sources? External nations? Right? This ideology again that puts
Speaker 1: highest value a whiteness, colorism because I am a visual person.
Speaker 1: So imagine a hierarchy with whiteness at the top, blackness
Speaker 1: at the bottom, various we got, we got a spectrum
Speaker 1: in between. Colorism essentially says that, Okay, if we're dealing
Speaker 1: with people of color, those who are closest to whiteness
Speaker 1: have more value. Ye, Right, So colorism. To say that
Speaker 1: colorism is what got her into the palace is to
Speaker 1: say that her complexion her physical appearance. Right, the average
Speaker 1: non discerning person, had we not seen her mother, had
Speaker 1: we not known her background, she could quote unquote pass
Speaker 1: as meaning very easily. Could she have been mistaken for white?
Speaker 1: Think about when you think about whiteness as an identity.
Speaker 1: Those gates have opened differently over time, meaning that Jews,
Speaker 1: for example, weren't always considered white. Italians weren't always considered white.
Speaker 1: Irish weren't always considered white. In the work that I
Speaker 1: do on hair politics, I know that it wasn't a
Speaker 1: black woman who invented the straightening comb. It was a
Speaker 1: Jewish man. Why because that investment in a particular embodiment
Speaker 1: of whiteness that says blond hair, blue eyes, dare we say,
Speaker 1: or at the very least right, white skin and straight hair.
Speaker 1: People use pejorative language like jew fro right folks from
Speaker 1: certain regions in the world having a different texture hair
Speaker 1: that doesn't look like your average you know, quote unquote
Speaker 1: normal white straight hair. There's an investment similarly to performing whiteness.
Speaker 1: I need you to receive me and see me and
Speaker 1: bestow upon me the value that you do to whiteness.
Speaker 1: So yes, I might have white skin, but my hair
Speaker 1: is a different texture. So I too, am invested in
Speaker 1: straightening that hair so that I can be received similarly. Right,
Speaker 1: everyone on that spectrum is attempting to climb the ladder
Speaker 1: if you were wow ye, to get access to the
Speaker 1: privileges that come in white bodies. So colorism got her in,
Speaker 1: meaning she was light enough. Right, we've never seen her
Speaker 1: natural early kinky by racial hair. If that's such a thing. Right.
Speaker 1: We've seen pictures of what her hair looked like when
Speaker 1: she was a child. We've never seen that little coil since.
Speaker 1: So the investment in keeping that hair straight is also
Speaker 1: poor part and parcel of how she's going to be received. So, okay, Harry,
Speaker 1: you want to marry, you know, someone of color, You've
Speaker 1: fallen in love with someone of color. She just enough.
Speaker 1: We can stomach this because her physicality is not a
Speaker 1: constant reminder to us that she is not white in
Speaker 1: the ways that mine would be. Can't run away from
Speaker 1: mine hers. You can make a choice about whether or
Speaker 1: not you see it or not. Possibly, but for some
Speaker 1: white people it's still as glaring, right, It's still as
Speaker 1: glaring in their face as if she were my complexion.
Speaker 1: So colorism got her aunt meaning she was light enough, right,
Speaker 1: she was white embodied enough. You know, people call her
Speaker 1: white passing. I would say white presenting only works if
Speaker 1: nobody knows, right, some of us can still see it, right,
Speaker 1: So white presenting, white supremacy, however, says that we don't
Speaker 1: care how light you are. We saw your mama, right,
Speaker 1: I mean the UK headlined straight out of Compton, All
Speaker 1: of these passive, aggressive little jabs, calling her exotic and
Speaker 1: all of these things. Her blackness is glaring to them
Speaker 1: if the comput is a European whiteness. So when it
Speaker 1: came down to when it came down to it, oh no,
Speaker 1: we know that you're black, so you're not gonna get
Speaker 1: the same treatment, the same privileges, the same protection that
Speaker 1: you would have had you been quote unquote purely right.
Speaker 1: It's so, what is so, I guess disturbing but not
Speaker 1: doesn't catch me off guard. But it's disturbing is how
Speaker 1: normalized we've allowed this to be right, It is not
Speaker 1: a shock of what the UK would write and their
Speaker 1: tabloids do. They have been doing this for decades. I
Speaker 1: spoke with an author from the UK, Georgina Lawson, who
Speaker 1: wrote the book Raceless, about her own experience um coming
Speaker 1: into coming into her blackness after her family fairly much
Speaker 1: gaslighted her into believing that it was an accident, that
Speaker 1: she was like she was some genetic phenom uh in
Speaker 1: some way, that she that she looked different from everybody
Speaker 1: else in the family. And she said that her experience
Speaker 1: is that in the UK they ignore race. There's no conversation,
Speaker 1: there's no she's like there's no readily um forced conversation
Speaker 1: around anti blackness, around white supremacy, around these terms that
Speaker 1: people are still learning and wrapping their their minds around.
Speaker 1: But here in the United States it's something that is
Speaker 1: more in your face. I want to know your experience
Speaker 1: as you know, as a as a as an academic
Speaker 1: and a professor that travels that studies this, how anti
Speaker 1: blackness or the silence around it differs between what we
Speaker 1: experience in the United States and what we are what
Speaker 1: we are seeing or learning show up in the UK
Speaker 1: as somebody from the outside looking in, Well, I haven't
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in the UK. I haven't
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in Europe in general, so
Speaker 1: I can really only speak from what I see projected,
Speaker 1: you know, European experiences. And again, in the same way
Speaker 1: that history is political, the media is political. And for
Speaker 1: those folks, you know, Americans, as as resourced as we are,
Speaker 1: as privileged as we are, I would argue that the
Speaker 1: average American does not leave this country, and if they do,
Speaker 1: they're going to you know, the Caribbean or Mexico or
Speaker 1: some vacation a spot. But like in terms of going
Speaker 1: to see how the rest of the world lives. I
Speaker 1: think we rely heavily on the media to show us
Speaker 1: the world, right, it's part of the access that we
Speaker 1: have through the media. And so think about it. How
Speaker 1: much black lived experiences have you seen from Europe. This
Speaker 1: is why people were completely fascinated by Michael la Cole.
Speaker 1: That's why we're fascinated when we hear Idris speak naturally
Speaker 1: because he spent so much time performing a black American accent. Right, Yes,
Speaker 1: he too has an accent. I went to Spain a
Speaker 1: couple of summers ago, and I was absolutely clear that
Speaker 1: I was black. People were staring at you, and it
Speaker 1: could have absolutely been where I traveled to. But you're
Speaker 1: very aware that you're not white in that space. Now,
Speaker 1: whether or not the conversations are happening in those spaces
Speaker 1: likely has to do with maybe the history of resistance
Speaker 1: in those spaces. Like we can't take for granted what
Speaker 1: the Civil rights did for our voice, the civil rights
Speaker 1: movement in America, right, the United Stay did for our
Speaker 1: voice and our ability to be speaking publicly and freely
Speaker 1: and calling racism out like that's not quote unquote normal
Speaker 1: in other spaces necessarily, But I also don't want to
Speaker 1: because it's not my experience. I also don't want to
Speaker 1: disrespect the folks who live in those spaces and are
Speaker 1: likely doing the work right right, right, I don't want
Speaker 1: to speak as if they're not doing anything. What I
Speaker 1: want to recognize is that what they are doing very strategically,
Speaker 1: we are not going to be made aware of, right, right,
Speaker 1: There's a swell and a reason right for us to
Speaker 1: know about it. But like, thinking of my experience in Spain,
Speaker 1: I always joke with my friends who who are from
Speaker 1: New York because they tend to call folks who are
Speaker 1: Latin Spanish, right, And I'm like, y'all, Spain is in Europe.
Speaker 1: The Spaniards were colonists. They are white, and they see
Speaker 1: them and they see themselves as such. They are white.
Speaker 1: Spanish is a language, right, The reason why folks speak
Speaker 1: Spanish because they were colonized by the Spaniards. But Spanish
Speaker 1: is not quote unquote of color. I was very clear
Speaker 1: that I was in Europe when I was in Spain. Right.
Speaker 1: But again, I think in terms of this, this moment
Speaker 1: of of of shock and curiosity and surprise has a
Speaker 1: lot to do with what we are not exposed to.
Speaker 1: It's it's what we're not giving access to in terms
Speaker 1: of like the lived experiences of black folks in Europe.
Speaker 1: Of course there's racism there. Of course there is. Of course, again,
Speaker 1: if we're talking about who are we putting the mic
Speaker 1: up to? Who are you asking? So like all the
Speaker 1: whole week all hasn't been a week to week, It's
Speaker 1: been two weeks now, what is time? Yeah, but it's time.
Speaker 1: All of the conversations in all of this so called
Speaker 1: surprise that we have is like it's because we don't
Speaker 1: know anything. And the thing that's most annoying to me
Speaker 1: is that white British folks have the audacity to be
Speaker 1: somehow offended, right, that somehow they're being mischaracterized, that somehow
Speaker 1: the UK is not a racist place. We're not asking you,
Speaker 1: of course, can we talk to some black folks please?
Speaker 1: Can we talk to some black folks in UK? Let's
Speaker 1: ask them if you don't get to tell us whether
Speaker 1: you live as racist. Imagine if we asked the average
Speaker 1: American if the US was racist, Yeah, they would say no,
Speaker 1: they would they would. I mean, we just we just
Speaker 1: asked a white suprimise that went in and murdered eight people,
Speaker 1: six Asian people, whether or not he did it as
Speaker 1: an act of racism, and then we're gonna take his
Speaker 1: word for it and run with that narrative. He had
Speaker 1: a bad day. He had a bad day. I have
Speaker 1: a lot of bad days. I don't kill anybody he
Speaker 1: was taking without incident. Imagine if black folks had enough
Speaker 1: black days, enough bad days. Excuse me, a bad day,
Speaker 1: a bad day. Yeah, nobody's asking for your perspective because
Speaker 1: you're not in a position to tell us whether or
Speaker 1: not the space that we live in is racist. You're
Speaker 1: invested in it, you're sitting in it. How can you
Speaker 1: see it? Why is it up for discussion? Yeah? But
Speaker 1: how do you feel? How do you write in the
Speaker 1: work that you do? How do you stave off or
Speaker 1: maybe you don't the utter and complete exhaustion of working
Speaker 1: to educate, uplift, expand the perception of blackness and how
Speaker 1: people show up in their anti blackness, in their racism
Speaker 1: or don't like how Because I tell you that what
Speaker 1: I have learned over the past year, and I say
Speaker 1: this all the time on my show, that people need
Speaker 1: to take breaks otherwise they're going to have a breakdown.
Speaker 1: That like, if you don't take a pause. The weight
Speaker 1: of all of this can really suffocate you. You how
Speaker 1: do you work and and navigate through and continue to
Speaker 1: show up with such a force and a fire. I mean,
Speaker 1: sometimes you have to get knocked all the way down
Speaker 1: to be able to see the need for it. Right.
Speaker 1: So I've I mean, I've been doing this work for
Speaker 1: most of my career, most of my adult life. So
Speaker 1: I've had lots of experiences, you know, some awful ones
Speaker 1: at that, some that have felt like they have absolutely
Speaker 1: broken me. But when I just accepted that white supremacy
Speaker 1: is not going anywhere, not in my lifetime, then I
Speaker 1: can pace myself. Then I recognize that. Does that mean
Speaker 1: I give up? No, It means that I recognize that
Speaker 1: I'm chipping away at it. Do I have the expectation
Speaker 1: for it to go away? Of course, not how long
Speaker 1: it's been here. It's gonna be something that my great
Speaker 1: grandchildren and future generations have to address as well. I'm
Speaker 1: realistic in that way, So in so doing, I can
Speaker 1: pace myself right. But also in the last few years,
Speaker 1: I've also become very deliberate about accessing joy. I mean,
Speaker 1: people use the language of balance. I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's balanced, I just need something else, right. This cannot
Speaker 1: everyday experience, right, because what would I have to look
Speaker 1: forward to? What would be the point of living? Right?
Speaker 1: And joy is my birthright? And so you know, when
Speaker 1: I think about the sheer magic that is Black existence,
Speaker 1: and I say magic because the fight and perhaps because
Speaker 1: of everything that has been set up to destroy us.
Speaker 1: Here we are not just living, not just surviving, not
Speaker 1: even just thriving, but we have the audacity to access joy. Right.
Speaker 1: Black culture brings every one joy. Who else could do it?
Speaker 1: Who else can do it? So as much as y'all
Speaker 1: want to talk about who we are and who we aren't, right,
Speaker 1: as much as we joke about white tears, the minute
Speaker 1: something goes wrong, you have a whole life breakdown and
Speaker 1: it is over. And here we are still entertaining your ass.
Speaker 1: But then joking amongst ourselves, right, thinking of the fact
Speaker 1: that our ancestors who were enslaved, our ancestors who were colonized, Right,
Speaker 1: you want to talk about direct oppression, direct oppression and
Speaker 1: still created culture that we still benefit from today and
Speaker 1: still laughed and joke and sang songs and danced, you know,
Speaker 1: And so for me, It's so interesting when I when I,
Speaker 1: you know, these kind of inside conversations that aren't so
Speaker 1: inside anymore. When when black folks, you know, they walk
Speaker 1: in their respectability politics be us and and and and
Speaker 1: you know, chastise us for doing certain things, you know,
Speaker 1: in public or in mixed company, or we shouldn't be
Speaker 1: acting like this way and we should only be you
Speaker 1: don't know who your ancestors are. Respectability politics doesn't saved us.
Speaker 1: It doesn't save us. We got a whole duchess in
Speaker 1: a whole palace done, saber, done, saber. No is if
Speaker 1: it's not gonna save us, and if it's not gonna
Speaker 1: ultimately in and of itself dismantled white supremacy, damn. And
Speaker 1: I'm still going to experience joy. You you don't get
Speaker 1: to have the complete totality of my existence in my life.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna have me feeling downtrodden every single day. Yes,
Speaker 1: this is the reality. And shit, if I'm still here,
Speaker 1: I'm going to enjoy myself in so doing it very deliberate, Yeah,
Speaker 1: testing joy, it's my birthright. You don't get to take
Speaker 1: that from me. And if I'm honest, a lot of
Speaker 1: ways they don't expect us to experience joy, so experience
Speaker 1: they don't right in your face. Yes, fuck with you
Speaker 1: even more. Yeah, I came to that understanding late. But
Speaker 1: what I have realized and what I have learned over
Speaker 1: my years is nothing nothing make white supremacy angry angrier
Speaker 1: than black joy. Nothing makes white racist angrier than like
Speaker 1: black people being unapologetically black and joyful and moisturized and
Speaker 1: glistening and just you know, like nothing if Nanny Nanni
Speaker 1: Bobu was a person, here we are. This is why
Speaker 1: I love, you know, younger generations. I love black creativity
Speaker 1: on social media, TikTok, Instagram memes. I live for a
Speaker 1: good meme because the worship can happen to us and
Speaker 1: somebody who is going to turn it into a meme. Now,
Speaker 1: older generations, or perhaps more buttoned up and respectable folks
Speaker 1: might find that disrespectful. I understand where you're coming from,
Speaker 1: and still, yeah, meme out of your ugly ass white
Speaker 1: supremacist murderer is gonna be a meme about you. We're
Speaker 1: gonna create a bad story, We're gonna laugh, We're going
Speaker 1: to we have to how do we make sense of
Speaker 1: this and keep moving Karen. Y'all mad about what we
Speaker 1: did to the word, to the name Karen, you'd be
Speaker 1: all right. And my thing is, if that is so
Speaker 1: disrupting to you, if that is the reason to have
Speaker 1: a whole identity crisis, this is why I say you
Speaker 1: couldn't beat us. Us calling you a name is enough
Speaker 1: to break you. You couldn't beat us. So yes, we're
Speaker 1: going to continue to laugh in your face because you
Speaker 1: don't get this is what I'm saying. You don't get
Speaker 1: to have that level of power over our lives. Y'all
Speaker 1: have done a lot of shit. Y'all are controlling a
Speaker 1: lot of shit. But you don't get to take my
Speaker 1: access to joy from me. You can't have that our
Speaker 1: answers we want to. Yeah, I double down on it
Speaker 1: every day. Double down on that and rest because you're
Speaker 1: also not going to wear me out. Yeah, what they
Speaker 1: do they do? Doctor Yaba Blay. I cannot you know,
Speaker 1: appreciate you enough. The work that you do, the voices
Speaker 1: that you lift up, the joy that you shine upon
Speaker 1: us with professional Black Girl and pretty period, the education
Speaker 1: and brilliance that you bring with your book, the one drop,
Speaker 1: and just your continued bodied of work is exemplary and
Speaker 1: I and I thank you for making the time to
Speaker 1: join us today. I woke a f the sure. Thank
Speaker 1: you for having me always. That is it for me today.
Speaker 1: Folks here on Woke ap as always. Power to the
Speaker 1: people and to all the people. Power, Get woke and
Speaker 1: stay woke as fuck.