1 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to woka F Daily with 2 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. This week on woke a 3 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: F we are reflecting on the year of Hate and 4 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: I've selected some of our interviews over the years to 5 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: recap and one of my favorites was my conversation with 6 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: the author of One Drop, Shifting the lens on race, 7 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: doctor Yaba Blay. I have followed Yabba for many, many 8 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: years and her book One Drop really provided deep context 9 00:00:53,360 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: to our core understanding of colorism. Now let me provide 10 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: you with the Oxford Dictionary definition of colorism prejudice or 11 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: discrimination against individuals with a dark skin tone, typically among 12 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: people of the same ethnic or racial group. This is 13 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: according to Wikipedia, discrimination based on skin color, also known 14 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: as colorism or shadism, is a form of prejudice and 15 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: or discrimination in which people who share similar ethnicity, traits, 16 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: or perceived race are treated differently based on the social 17 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: implications that come with the cultural meanings that are attached 18 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: to skin color. Colorism is a serious issue. It's one 19 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: that I have seen play out in this country in 20 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: other countries. In my family's home country of Jamaica, I 21 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: thought it was really interesting recently when I was kind 22 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: of going through photos of past prime ministers in Jamaica 23 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: in particular, and realizing that they all had a similar 24 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: look to them. Super fair skin, right, very very fair skin, 25 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: their hair texture would be very similar to those of 26 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: white people. And they've always been in charge of an 27 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: island that is largely filled with people whose skin tone 28 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: look like mine. And what does that say, right, how 29 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: do we absorb that? And what it is said is 30 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: that white supremacy is a hell of a fucking drug. 31 00:02:55,560 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: That regardless of if you grew up right in a country, 32 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: in a place that there was an overwhelming presence of 33 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: darker skinned people, that sadly, you could not say that 34 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: you were unaffected by white supremacy. My sisters, she was 35 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: traveling around Asia, would tell me that she would never 36 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: pick up skincare products, whether it be something as simple 37 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: as a lotion or a body wash, and bring it 38 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: home that everything that she would use right when she 39 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: was living abroad would be from the United States. I'd say, 40 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: why because of the bleaching elements you see in many countries, 41 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: including many on the continent of Africa. Bleaching is a 42 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: common practice where you either use different skincare products or 43 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: actually just dip yourself in pure fucking bleach so that 44 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 1: you can get lighter. Because the crime of white supremacy 45 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: has meant that the closer you are to whiteness, the 46 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: better you are. It doesn't matter if you are dipping 47 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: yourself in a toxin that could destroy your skin, cause cancer, blindness, 48 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: severe rashes, bleeding. That the desire to be fairer skin 49 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: outweighs the pain, the pain of what it would mean 50 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: to exist in a darker skinned body. Think about that. 51 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: My sister would tell me that, particularly in Asia in 52 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: the hotter temperature months, that you would see people completely covered, 53 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: wearing gloves, carrying parasols because the idea of your skin 54 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: not resembling that of porcelain was problematic. Why because of 55 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: the toxicity of white supremacy. Because of the export that 56 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: has been done from European nations and America that sends 57 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: images and videos of the blue, wide, blonde hair, fair skin, 58 00:05:54,920 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: people who live these wonderful lives and are wealthy, and 59 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: are adored and are considered attractive, whose characteristics, whose physical 60 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: characteristics are used as yardsticks for the rest of the world, 61 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: which is majority people of color, to measure themselves against. 62 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: It's why during the Jim Crow error and time, we 63 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: had something in the United States called the brown paperbag test, 64 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: which is that if your skin was lighter than a 65 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: brown paper bag, then you were accepted, you were welcomed 66 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: in to certain places. If it was not, you might 67 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,559 Speaker 1: as well be trash on a curb. It's why doctor 68 00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: Yaba Blay had started a social media campaign that spawned 69 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: into so much more called Pretty Period. And she asked 70 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: me many years ago if I would participate as a 71 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: darker skinned woman that we had always been told, and 72 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: it had been perceived to be a compliment that you 73 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: are pretty for a dark skinned girl, and her concept 74 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: of you are pretty period full stop was to be 75 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: a campaign that would empower darker skinned women and girls 76 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: throughout the diaspora. You know, it pains me sometimes when 77 00:07:53,720 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: I recognize just how pervasive white supremacy is, just how 78 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: you know, you want to talk about a pandemic of 79 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen and yet we don't talk about the pandemic 80 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: of white supremacy and how it has spread around the 81 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: world as a virus has infected every industry, every space, 82 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: every piece of policy and legislation that we have in 83 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: this country has been dictated by whether or not we 84 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: should give a damn, whether we should extend empathy is 85 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: based on people's skin. There is a meme that has 86 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: gone around for so long with the family guy and 87 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: you hold up the piece of paper that shows the 88 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: gradiations of whiteness, and then it moves into olive and 89 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: then finally darker skin tones, and it dictates to you, 90 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: based on the gradiation, whether or not you should be 91 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: considered a terrorist, store alone wolf, for somebody with mental illness. 92 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: You see, those memes exist because it's reality. It's reality 93 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: when you walk down the street, when you go and 94 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: try and you know, go into a store. How you 95 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: are looked at, how you are perceived, doesn't matter how 96 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: clean you are or how pressed your clothes are. It 97 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: isn't the content of your character. It isn't the amount 98 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: of degrees. It's about the depths of your melanine. And 99 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: what's sad is that in every country that you go into, 100 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: you understand their relationship to colorism based on who's in charge, 101 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: who gets to pull the lovers of power. I remember 102 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: being in India, traveling in India so many years ago 103 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: and part of my family immigrated from Calcutta, India to Jamaica, 104 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: so I have lineage that is Indian and I had 105 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: never felt so different, so othered, and imagine this, I'm 106 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: from fucking America than when I was in India. It 107 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: was wild to me. People were staring and pointing, right 108 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: because I was so dark. But what was wild is 109 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: that there were people who were doing that that were 110 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: darker than me. Right. You see what we get exported 111 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: from India in Bollywood with regard to what it looks 112 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 1: like to be Indian is the you know, the Primillagia 113 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: Pauls right, the Prianka Chopras right, the fairer skinned, long 114 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: hair people, when in fact they have every color, every 115 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: depth of melanin that you can imagine. But based on 116 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: their cast system and based on their worthiness that if 117 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:43,599 Speaker 1: you are a darker skinned person, you are just less desirable. 118 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: And why is that? Oh? Well, because the British ruled 119 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: them for so goddamn long. You know, I often wonder 120 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: and if I was like a you know, like a 121 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 1: director or a screenwriter, I still want to see a 122 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: genre of sci fi that would tackle what the world 123 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: would look like if white supremacy hadn't grabbed it and 124 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: strangled it and had hold over the globe for so 125 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: many years, thousands of years, Right, I wonder what we 126 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: would look like, how we would be, how we would tolerate, 127 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: accept love people, or if we would then, because of 128 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: human nature, just look for another way to other people 129 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: to isolate them. But this conversation that I have with 130 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: doctor Yaba Blay about colorism really delves into the depths 131 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:03,359 Speaker 1: of what still needs to be unpacked about white supremacy 132 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: and about racism and how it is internalized. Right, you know, 133 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: you have people these quote unquote black Republicans are Latin 134 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: extra Republicans that believe that their proximity to whiteness, even 135 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: if they actually look like me, their proximity to whiteness 136 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: will somehow save them. And the reality is is that 137 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: in a crowd, in a mob, they gonna look the 138 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: same as me. So it's wild to believe that either 139 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: the physical shifting of your skin or your ideology will 140 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: allow you to access something that the white world has 141 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: never wanted you to access, which is true liberty and freedom, 142 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: which is to break outside of our global cast system 143 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: that is designed by the depth of your melanin. What 144 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: would it mean to live outside of that box, to 145 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: live outside of that distortion, to have not contracted the 146 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: virus of white supremacy and internalized colorism. The conversation coming 147 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: up next with doctor Yaba Blay will help to provide 148 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: some perspective and insight into how we deal with, how 149 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: we talk about, and how we deconstruct colorism. Folks, I'm 150 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: always so excited and honored when I get to bring 151 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: some folks that I follow, friends, colleagues back to woke 152 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: f And if you've been following me for a long time, 153 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: you've heard me have the pleasure of speaking with doctor 154 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: Yaba Blay. You know her as an academic, the founder 155 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: of Professional Black Girl on Instagram, the author of the 156 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: award winning book One Drop of Putting a Lens on Race, 157 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: A doctor that covers colorism, white supremacy, anti blackness, and 158 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: basically everything that upsets our souls as black people. Doctor 159 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: Yaba Blay, Welcome back to woke f Daily. Thank you 160 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: doing good to be here this month. The world seems 161 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: shocked once again with the understanding that white supremacy exists 162 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: and as a thing, and it doesn't matter if you 163 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: are a princess. If you are the greatest athlete of 164 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: all time, I'm talking about Serena Williams. It doesn't matter 165 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: if you're a Beyonce, it doesn't matter what heights you 166 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: have achieved. White supremacy will find its way to try 167 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: and pull you down. I wanted to get your initial 168 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: reaction to the media's response to the Meghan Markle and 169 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: Oprah Winfrey and Harry interview and the understanding that someone 170 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: right in the royal family was commenting on her unborn 171 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: child Archie at the time, wondering how dark he was 172 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: going to be, and all of the things that happened 173 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: following that, the loss of security, literal protection for her, 174 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: for her child, for herself, and essentially being thrown to 175 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: the wolves in the UK. What were your reactions to 176 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: that story. I had quite a few reactions. I'm constantly 177 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: trying to reground myself and with whole judgment and annoyance 178 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: with the rest of the world, because I continually remind 179 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: myself that these aren't average conversations that everybody has all 180 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: the time, and so I'm privileged in that surrounded by 181 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: some very dope and brilliant folks. You know, we have 182 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: challenging conversations regularly, but the average person does not. I 183 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: watched that interview with my seventy eight year old gunny 184 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: and mother, who has long been fascinated by the magical 185 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: world of the royals. So Princess Diana was her girl, 186 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: you know, and I know she was front and center 187 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: watching Harry and Megan's wedding, as was much of the world, 188 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: and so we watched the interview together. Of course, she 189 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: wasn't gonna miss that. And so there's that moment when 190 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: Megan reveals that there were questions about Archie's complexion, and 191 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: you know what's now been meaned over and over again. 192 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 1: Oprah's response that right. My mom had a very similar reaction, 193 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: and I just looked at her and I'm like, Mom, 194 00:17:53,760 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: like who colonised Ghanna? Right? And like you are you right? 195 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: You're right, same people and they don't have to change. 196 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: And so for me, the kind of frustration, I almost 197 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: feel like, are we gaslighting ourselves? You know? And so 198 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: there are a couple things perhaps that are happening. I 199 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: think from an American perspective, right, the idea that we 200 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: are surprised may be connected to our limited vantage vantage 201 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: point on what the UK is or who the UK 202 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: is for folks who haven't had the opportunity to travel, 203 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: or don't know folks who live there or whatever. Right, 204 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: whatever we know about the UK is what the media 205 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: has given us. And I think for many Americans, we have, 206 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: like my mother been, you know, swept off of our 207 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: feet by the whole idea of a royal family and 208 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: a crown and all of those kinds of like magical 209 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 1: images that we get, and not as much familiarity with 210 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: what it means to be black in that space, right, 211 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: experience of blackness in that space. Um, And so the surprise, 212 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: I don't know, in general, I wonder why we're surprised, 213 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 1: Like are we gaslighting ourselves? Right? Why would we? I'm 214 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: I was surprised a that Harry was allowed to marry 215 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: her in the first place. That was that was that 216 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: was my initial shock. So maybe that's that's why folks 217 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: are surprised. Maybe they assumed that if he was allowed 218 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: and I'm using that language very deliberately, if he was 219 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: allowed to marry Meg and Marco, that perhaps, um, the 220 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: royal family or the UK was more liberal than they 221 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: actually are. Maybe that's where the surprise comes. From But 222 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: I tried to stay offline a little bit the next 223 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 1: day because I already knew it was gonna be, you know, 224 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: a ship show in terms of all of the conversations 225 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,959 Speaker 1: around it. But I think it's that surprised the shock 226 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: um that was most annoying to me, because again, in 227 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: the same way that I asked my mom, it's like, 228 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: what is it that we know about the UK? Like, 229 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: I'm not a historian, but I'm so very very aware 230 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: of how important history is to my work, to providing 231 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: contexts to the work that I do and the work 232 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: that so many people do and want to do around 233 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: anti racism. If you attempt to have a conversation about 234 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 1: anti racism that starts with George Floyd's murder, that starts 235 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, problem, right, Yeah, that history to ground 236 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: you right to have an understanding of how we got 237 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: here in the first place. So what is it that 238 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 1: you need to know about global history to understand what 239 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: that crown represents? Right? Where does the jewels and the 240 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: crown come from? M to see what I'm saying, Like, 241 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: if you're clear about that history, you should absolutely not 242 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: be surprised that there are conversations about this child's complexion, 243 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: because as far as their concerned, Megan Markle and I 244 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:09,479 Speaker 1: are the same complexion, you know. It was one of 245 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: the one tweet that I saw that said and it 246 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: was a it was a it was a black woman 247 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: who who tweeted it, and I would say that she's 248 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: in the realm of you know, of darker chocolate, right, 249 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: and she was like, if Megan looked like me, we 250 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't even be having this conversation. So when you talk 251 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: about the allowed, right, the you know, being allowed, it 252 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: was it was somebody who wrote and I'm so upset 253 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: that I can't remember. They're like, colorism is what allowed 254 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: Megan Markle to marry into that family, and colorism is 255 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: what had her flee the country. And so I want 256 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: you for for for for the audience to unpack that 257 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,719 Speaker 1: sentiment of what that means, because it hit me and 258 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: I was just like, you're absolutely goddamn right. I think 259 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: that was something to the except that, yes, colorism is 260 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: what allowed her to marry in white supremacy as well 261 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: kicked out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in speaking of colorism, right, 262 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: we were talking about the hierarchical perceptions of and the 263 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: value associated with skin color and what's important to me. 264 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: Oftentimes when people talk about colorism, we talk about it 265 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: like it is an what am I trying to say? 266 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: An internal issue, like this is what we black people 267 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: and so called people of color due to ourselves. I 268 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: don't ever want to just connect colorism from white supremacy. 269 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: Colorism is symptom of white supremacy. Right. Colorism is how 270 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: we internalize white supremacy. If white supremacy is an ideology, 271 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: is an institution, is a way of of you know, 272 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: a lens on the world, if you will, that situates 273 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 1: whiteness as I mean, the language says supremacy. Again, when 274 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: I say white premacy, people get uncomfortable because they are 275 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: conflating white supremacy with white supremacists, meaning you're only thinking 276 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: of a clan, your only thing, right, frederate flags Right. 277 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: I'm talking about white supremacy as a historical ideology and 278 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: institution that gives us valuations of human value, and those 279 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: valuations are based on a hierarchy that puts supreme value, 280 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,959 Speaker 1: ultimate value, highest value in white bodies, in white histories, 281 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: in white experience, in whiteness. Right. Much of the history 282 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: of the world operated from this space. Why is it 283 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: then that it was European countries that colonized African countries 284 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: and the rest of the world. Why is it now 285 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: that Europe still has colonies? Language is important? Why should 286 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: Europe be in power? Why should Africa be controlled by 287 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: external sources? External nations? Right? This ideology again that puts 288 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: highest value a whiteness, colorism because I am a visual person. 289 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: So imagine a hierarchy with whiteness at the top, blackness 290 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: at the bottom, various we got, we got a spectrum 291 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: in between. Colorism essentially says that, Okay, if we're dealing 292 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: with people of color, those who are closest to whiteness 293 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: have more value. Ye, Right, So colorism. To say that 294 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: colorism is what got her into the palace is to 295 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: say that her complexion her physical appearance. Right, the average 296 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: non discerning person, had we not seen her mother, had 297 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: we not known her background, she could quote unquote pass 298 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: as meaning very easily. Could she have been mistaken for white? 299 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: Think about when you think about whiteness as an identity. 300 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: Those gates have opened differently over time, meaning that Jews, 301 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: for example, weren't always considered white. Italians weren't always considered white. 302 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 1: Irish weren't always considered white. In the work that I 303 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: do on hair politics, I know that it wasn't a 304 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: black woman who invented the straightening comb. It was a 305 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: Jewish man. Why because that investment in a particular embodiment 306 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: of whiteness that says blond hair, blue eyes, dare we say, 307 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: or at the very least right, white skin and straight hair. 308 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: People use pejorative language like jew fro right folks from 309 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: certain regions in the world having a different texture hair 310 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: that doesn't look like your average you know, quote unquote 311 00:25:55,320 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: normal white straight hair. There's an investment similarly to performing whiteness. 312 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 1: I need you to receive me and see me and 313 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: bestow upon me the value that you do to whiteness. 314 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: So yes, I might have white skin, but my hair 315 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 1: is a different texture. So I too, am invested in 316 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: straightening that hair so that I can be received similarly. Right, 317 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: everyone on that spectrum is attempting to climb the ladder 318 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: if you were wow ye, to get access to the 319 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: privileges that come in white bodies. So colorism got her in, 320 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: meaning she was light enough. Right, we've never seen her 321 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: natural early kinky by racial hair. If that's such a thing. Right. 322 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 1: We've seen pictures of what her hair looked like when 323 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: she was a child. We've never seen that little coil since. 324 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: So the investment in keeping that hair straight is also 325 00:26:54,200 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 1: poor part and parcel of how she's going to be received. So, okay, Harry, 326 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: you want to marry, you know, someone of color, You've 327 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: fallen in love with someone of color. She just enough. 328 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: We can stomach this because her physicality is not a 329 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: constant reminder to us that she is not white in 330 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: the ways that mine would be. Can't run away from 331 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: mine hers. You can make a choice about whether or 332 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: not you see it or not. Possibly, but for some 333 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: white people it's still as glaring, right, It's still as 334 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: glaring in their face as if she were my complexion. 335 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: So colorism got her aunt meaning she was light enough, right, 336 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: she was white embodied enough. You know, people call her 337 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: white passing. I would say white presenting only works if 338 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: nobody knows, right, some of us can still see it, right, 339 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: So white presenting, white supremacy, however, says that we don't 340 00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: care how light you are. We saw your mama, right, 341 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: I mean the UK headlined straight out of Compton, All 342 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: of these passive, aggressive little jabs, calling her exotic and 343 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: all of these things. Her blackness is glaring to them 344 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: if the comput is a European whiteness. So when it 345 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,719 Speaker 1: came down to when it came down to it, oh no, 346 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: we know that you're black, so you're not gonna get 347 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: the same treatment, the same privileges, the same protection that 348 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: you would have had you been quote unquote purely right. 349 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: It's so, what is so, I guess disturbing but not 350 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: doesn't catch me off guard. But it's disturbing is how 351 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: normalized we've allowed this to be right, It is not 352 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: a shock of what the UK would write and their 353 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: tabloids do. They have been doing this for decades. I 354 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: spoke with an author from the UK, Georgina Lawson, who 355 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: wrote the book Raceless, about her own experience um coming 356 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: into coming into her blackness after her family fairly much 357 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: gaslighted her into believing that it was an accident, that 358 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: she was like she was some genetic phenom uh in 359 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: some way, that she that she looked different from everybody 360 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: else in the family. And she said that her experience 361 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: is that in the UK they ignore race. There's no conversation, 362 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: there's no she's like there's no readily um forced conversation 363 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: around anti blackness, around white supremacy, around these terms that 364 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: people are still learning and wrapping their their minds around. 365 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,719 Speaker 1: But here in the United States it's something that is 366 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: more in your face. I want to know your experience 367 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: as you know, as a as a as an academic 368 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: and a professor that travels that studies this, how anti 369 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: blackness or the silence around it differs between what we 370 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: experience in the United States and what we are what 371 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: we are seeing or learning show up in the UK 372 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: as somebody from the outside looking in, Well, I haven't 373 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in the UK. I haven't 374 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in Europe in general, so 375 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: I can really only speak from what I see projected, 376 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: you know, European experiences. And again, in the same way 377 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: that history is political, the media is political. And for 378 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: those folks, you know, Americans, as as resourced as we are, 379 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: as privileged as we are, I would argue that the 380 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: average American does not leave this country, and if they do, 381 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: they're going to you know, the Caribbean or Mexico or 382 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: some vacation a spot. But like in terms of going 383 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: to see how the rest of the world lives. I 384 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: think we rely heavily on the media to show us 385 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: the world, right, it's part of the access that we 386 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: have through the media. And so think about it. How 387 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: much black lived experiences have you seen from Europe. This 388 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: is why people were completely fascinated by Michael la Cole. 389 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: That's why we're fascinated when we hear Idris speak naturally 390 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: because he spent so much time performing a black American accent. Right, Yes, 391 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: he too has an accent. I went to Spain a 392 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: couple of summers ago, and I was absolutely clear that 393 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: I was black. People were staring at you, and it 394 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: could have absolutely been where I traveled to. But you're 395 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: very aware that you're not white in that space. Now, 396 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: whether or not the conversations are happening in those spaces 397 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: likely has to do with maybe the history of resistance 398 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: in those spaces. Like we can't take for granted what 399 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: the Civil rights did for our voice, the civil rights 400 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: movement in America, right, the United Stay did for our 401 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: voice and our ability to be speaking publicly and freely 402 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: and calling racism out like that's not quote unquote normal 403 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: in other spaces necessarily, But I also don't want to 404 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: because it's not my experience. I also don't want to 405 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: disrespect the folks who live in those spaces and are 406 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: likely doing the work right right, right, I don't want 407 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: to speak as if they're not doing anything. What I 408 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: want to recognize is that what they are doing very strategically, 409 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: we are not going to be made aware of, right, right, 410 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: There's a swell and a reason right for us to 411 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: know about it. But like, thinking of my experience in Spain, 412 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: I always joke with my friends who who are from 413 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: New York because they tend to call folks who are 414 00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: Latin Spanish, right, And I'm like, y'all, Spain is in Europe. 415 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: The Spaniards were colonists. They are white, and they see 416 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: them and they see themselves as such. They are white. 417 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: Spanish is a language, right, The reason why folks speak 418 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: Spanish because they were colonized by the Spaniards. But Spanish 419 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: is not quote unquote of color. I was very clear 420 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: that I was in Europe when I was in Spain. Right. 421 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: But again, I think in terms of this, this moment 422 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,479 Speaker 1: of of of shock and curiosity and surprise has a 423 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: lot to do with what we are not exposed to. 424 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: It's it's what we're not giving access to in terms 425 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,479 Speaker 1: of like the lived experiences of black folks in Europe. 426 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: Of course there's racism there. Of course there is. Of course, again, 427 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: if we're talking about who are we putting the mic 428 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: up to? Who are you asking? So like all the 429 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: whole week all hasn't been a week to week, It's 430 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: been two weeks now, what is time? Yeah, but it's time. 431 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: All of the conversations in all of this so called 432 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: surprise that we have is like it's because we don't 433 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: know anything. And the thing that's most annoying to me 434 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: is that white British folks have the audacity to be 435 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: somehow offended, right, that somehow they're being mischaracterized, that somehow 436 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: the UK is not a racist place. We're not asking you, 437 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: of course, can we talk to some black folks please? 438 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,799 Speaker 1: Can we talk to some black folks in UK? Let's 439 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: ask them if you don't get to tell us whether 440 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: you live as racist. Imagine if we asked the average 441 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: American if the US was racist, Yeah, they would say no, 442 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: they would they would. I mean, we just we just 443 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 1: asked a white suprimise that went in and murdered eight people, 444 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: six Asian people, whether or not he did it as 445 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: an act of racism, and then we're gonna take his 446 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 1: word for it and run with that narrative. He had 447 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: a bad day. He had a bad day. I have 448 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: a lot of bad days. I don't kill anybody he 449 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: was taking without incident. Imagine if black folks had enough 450 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:18,919 Speaker 1: black days, enough bad days. Excuse me, a bad day, 451 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: a bad day. Yeah, nobody's asking for your perspective because 452 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: you're not in a position to tell us whether or 453 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: not the space that we live in is racist. You're 454 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: invested in it, you're sitting in it. How can you 455 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: see it? Why is it up for discussion? Yeah? But 456 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 1: how do you feel? How do you write in the 457 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: work that you do? How do you stave off or 458 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: maybe you don't the utter and complete exhaustion of working 459 00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: to educate, uplift, expand the perception of blackness and how 460 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: people show up in their anti blackness, in their racism 461 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,879 Speaker 1: or don't like how Because I tell you that what 462 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: I have learned over the past year, and I say 463 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: this all the time on my show, that people need 464 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: to take breaks otherwise they're going to have a breakdown. 465 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,720 Speaker 1: That like, if you don't take a pause. The weight 466 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: of all of this can really suffocate you. You how 467 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: do you work and and navigate through and continue to 468 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: show up with such a force and a fire. I mean, 469 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: sometimes you have to get knocked all the way down 470 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: to be able to see the need for it. Right. 471 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: So I've I mean, I've been doing this work for 472 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: most of my career, most of my adult life. So 473 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: I've had lots of experiences, you know, some awful ones 474 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,240 Speaker 1: at that, some that have felt like they have absolutely 475 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: broken me. But when I just accepted that white supremacy 476 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: is not going anywhere, not in my lifetime, then I 477 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,399 Speaker 1: can pace myself. Then I recognize that. Does that mean 478 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: I give up? No, It means that I recognize that 479 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 1: I'm chipping away at it. Do I have the expectation 480 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: for it to go away? Of course, not how long 481 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: it's been here. It's gonna be something that my great 482 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: grandchildren and future generations have to address as well. I'm 483 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: realistic in that way, So in so doing, I can 484 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,280 Speaker 1: pace myself right. But also in the last few years, 485 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: I've also become very deliberate about accessing joy. I mean, 486 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: people use the language of balance. I don't know if 487 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: it's balanced, I just need something else, right. This cannot 488 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: everyday experience, right, because what would I have to look 489 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 1: forward to? What would be the point of living? Right? 490 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: And joy is my birthright? And so you know, when 491 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: I think about the sheer magic that is Black existence, 492 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: and I say magic because the fight and perhaps because 493 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: of everything that has been set up to destroy us. 494 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,839 Speaker 1: Here we are not just living, not just surviving, not 495 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: even just thriving, but we have the audacity to access joy. Right. 496 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: Black culture brings every one joy. Who else could do it? 497 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,959 Speaker 1: Who else can do it? So as much as y'all 498 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: want to talk about who we are and who we aren't, right, 499 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,800 Speaker 1: as much as we joke about white tears, the minute 500 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: something goes wrong, you have a whole life breakdown and 501 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 1: it is over. And here we are still entertaining your ass. 502 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: But then joking amongst ourselves, right, thinking of the fact 503 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 1: that our ancestors who were enslaved, our ancestors who were colonized, Right, 504 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: you want to talk about direct oppression, direct oppression and 505 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: still created culture that we still benefit from today and 506 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,400 Speaker 1: still laughed and joke and sang songs and danced, you know, 507 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: And so for me, It's so interesting when I when I, 508 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: you know, these kind of inside conversations that aren't so 509 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: inside anymore. When when black folks, you know, they walk 510 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,919 Speaker 1: in their respectability politics be us and and and and 511 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,839 Speaker 1: you know, chastise us for doing certain things, you know, 512 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: in public or in mixed company, or we shouldn't be 513 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: acting like this way and we should only be you 514 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: don't know who your ancestors are. Respectability politics doesn't saved us. 515 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: It doesn't save us. We got a whole duchess in 516 00:39:53,239 --> 00:40:01,319 Speaker 1: a whole palace done, saber, done, saber. No is if 517 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,439 Speaker 1: it's not gonna save us, and if it's not gonna 518 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: ultimately in and of itself dismantled white supremacy, damn. And 519 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 1: I'm still going to experience joy. You you don't get 520 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 1: to have the complete totality of my existence in my life. 521 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: You're not gonna have me feeling downtrodden every single day. Yes, 522 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: this is the reality. And shit, if I'm still here, 523 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to enjoy myself in so doing it very deliberate, Yeah, 524 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: testing joy, it's my birthright. You don't get to take 525 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: that from me. And if I'm honest, a lot of 526 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,800 Speaker 1: ways they don't expect us to experience joy, so experience 527 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: they don't right in your face. Yes, fuck with you 528 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 1: even more. Yeah, I came to that understanding late. But 529 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: what I have realized and what I have learned over 530 00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: my years is nothing nothing make white supremacy angry angrier 531 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: than black joy. Nothing makes white racist angrier than like 532 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 1: black people being unapologetically black and joyful and moisturized and 533 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: glistening and just you know, like nothing if Nanny Nanni 534 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,319 Speaker 1: Bobu was a person, here we are. This is why 535 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 1: I love, you know, younger generations. I love black creativity 536 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,839 Speaker 1: on social media, TikTok, Instagram memes. I live for a 537 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: good meme because the worship can happen to us and 538 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 1: somebody who is going to turn it into a meme. Now, 539 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: older generations, or perhaps more buttoned up and respectable folks 540 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,720 Speaker 1: might find that disrespectful. I understand where you're coming from, 541 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,719 Speaker 1: and still, yeah, meme out of your ugly ass white 542 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 1: supremacist murderer is gonna be a meme about you. We're 543 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 1: gonna create a bad story, We're gonna laugh, We're going 544 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,239 Speaker 1: to we have to how do we make sense of 545 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 1: this and keep moving Karen. Y'all mad about what we 546 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: did to the word, to the name Karen, you'd be 547 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,440 Speaker 1: all right. And my thing is, if that is so 548 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: disrupting to you, if that is the reason to have 549 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 1: a whole identity crisis, this is why I say you 550 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:25,399 Speaker 1: couldn't beat us. Us calling you a name is enough 551 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: to break you. You couldn't beat us. So yes, we're 552 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,759 Speaker 1: going to continue to laugh in your face because you 553 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,759 Speaker 1: don't get this is what I'm saying. You don't get 554 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 1: to have that level of power over our lives. Y'all 555 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: have done a lot of shit. Y'all are controlling a 556 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: lot of shit. But you don't get to take my 557 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: access to joy from me. You can't have that our 558 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: answers we want to. Yeah, I double down on it 559 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 1: every day. Double down on that and rest because you're 560 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: also not going to wear me out. Yeah, what they 561 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: do they do? Doctor Yaba Blay. I cannot you know, 562 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: appreciate you enough. The work that you do, the voices 563 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 1: that you lift up, the joy that you shine upon 564 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 1: us with professional Black Girl and pretty period, the education 565 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 1: and brilliance that you bring with your book, the one drop, 566 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:40,360 Speaker 1: and just your continued bodied of work is exemplary and 567 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,840 Speaker 1: I and I thank you for making the time to 568 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 1: join us today. I woke a f the sure. Thank 569 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: you for having me always. That is it for me today. 570 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: Folks here on Woke ap as always. Power to the 571 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,960 Speaker 1: people and to all the people. Power, Get woke and 572 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:04,480 Speaker 1: stay woke as fuck.