WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: The Story of Internet Explorer, Part 2 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.760 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:14.640 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.560 job and Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio. 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:20.400 And how the tech are you? It's time for another 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:24.240 classic episode. This is actually the second part to the 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:28.240 classic episode we published last Friday. It is called The 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:31.720 Story of Internet Explorer, Part two and it originally published 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:35.960 on May sixth, two thousand fifteen, and has special guest 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.199 host Nate Langson on the show. Nate is awesome. If 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.839 you're not familiar with his work, definitely google Nate Langston. 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:48.200 He's got a ton of work to his name and 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:53.280 is just a really interesting, intelligent, and entertaining person. Hope 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:57.480 you enjoyed this classic episode. I know people who still 0:00:57.520 --> 0:00:59.800 would prefer to use Windows XP to any of the 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:03.040 other operating systems that have come out since then. There 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.240 are a lot of legacy systems that depend upon Windows XP, 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.840 and you cannot migrate to a new operating system without 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:16.200 reinventing all these legacy systems that interact with it. Uh there. 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.320 There used to be a joke about how people would 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:20.320 stay on Windows XP, and now it's kind of a 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.200 sad one so I E six comes out bundled with 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.279 Windows XP. That also means that I E six has 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:31.280 continued to be used long after you would expect people 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.240 to have changed, you know, upgraded to some other version 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:40.039 of Internet Explorer. UM. PC World. This is where we 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.000 get the sad part. Called it the least secure software 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.840 on the planet because I had so many vulnerabilities. It 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.560 made the list of twenty five worst tech products of 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.880 all time from PC World. It was number eight and 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.440 number seven was a different Microsoft product, one that I 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.000 did a full episode of tech Stuff about Microsoft Bob 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:04.040 Oh Bob, so it's named by Bill Gates wife. Believe 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:08.880 we had a whole the episode. If you haven't listened 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.760 to the episode of tech Stuff, I highly recommend you 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:15.160 go and check that out. Lauren Vogelbaum was by co 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.120 host on that one, and we had a grand old 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:23.480 time dissecting Bob uh and and it was her first 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:29.400 time ever encountering Bob, and boy, I mean the fact 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:33.280 that I E six ranked higher on the list. Then 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.600 Bob tells you how bad I E six was because 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:43.040 Bob was atrocious. So this was another one of those problem. 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.639 It was ripe with vulnerabilities that allowed hackers to get 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.040 that same kind of level of access to a computer, 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:52.600 whatever level the user was logged in at. So if 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.359 you were a giant business and you only allowed your 0:02:56.360 --> 0:03:00.519 employees to log in under a lower access level, then 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:04.720 that was bad but probably manageable. If you were one 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:07.440 of those businesses that allow employees to log in at 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:11.919 the admin level, it was catastrophic. And because I E 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.520 six was lumped in with Windows XP, and because Windows 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:16.919 XP was so popular, it meant that it was a 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:22.680 target rich environment. Now, Nate, you you being a Mac user, 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.640 Are you one of the Mac users who who very 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:32.200 smugly trumpets the fact that Max are largely UM free 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:37.760 from issues of viruses and malware. No, I'm one of 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.760 the people that says that they are. Well, yes I 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:45.840 am in a way, I am actually completely But what 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.480 I what I don't say is that MAX can't get 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:53.520 viruses or that they are more secure. Um. They are 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:57.880 in as much as everyone targets Windows, and therefore far 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.920 far a few of people are targeting MAX. But on 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.880 the other hand, MAX can also be conduits for viruses, 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.840 so you are able to pass on a virus even 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.120 if you are immune to it. You can you can 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:14.920 be a carrier but not be be affected by it directly. 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:17.440 That said, I don't run antivirus because I don't care 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:22.760 about Windows uses, Well why get vaccinated? Right? I mean, 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.680 uh yeah, yeah, this this this is a great but 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.480 this is a great point to make. And that again, 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.080 PCs had so much of the market share. I mean, 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.840 we're still at the point where Max had not really 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.279 made a big debt. It would be it wouldn't be 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.080 until the mid to late two thousand's that we really 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:43.440 started seeing the Mac take off on a on a 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.719 true market share level, which meant that if you're a 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:50.040 hacker and you're designing malware and you're trying to hit 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.840 as many people as possible that's your goal, then you 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.120 go to where the people are, and the people were 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:59.240 at PCs on Windows based machines, specifically Windows XP and 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.520 Internet ex or six had all these vulnerabilities. It was 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:07.599 open season for hackers. Which that's why it made this 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.279 this list of the wars tech products. I mean, if 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:15.160 if it's a gateway, if Microsoft had not patch call 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:19.440 of vulnerabilities, it's a huge issue. Now Microsoft did start 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:23.480 to issue patches very quickly, but it was still one 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.000 of those things that became a black eye for the company. 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:28.280 H In fact, the problem was so serious that the 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:34.280 United States Computer Emergency Readiness Team told people, Hey, if 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:38.960 you don't have to use Internet Explorer, don't use something else. 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:41.880 And then the only times you should use Internet Explorer 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:45.000 is when you have no other option, like it's it's 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:50.400 something that's only compatible with Internet Explorer. Um. I've had Uh, 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.680 I've worked at companies where the intranet would only be 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:57.600 accessible through Internet Explorer. Other browsers just could not render 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:01.840 those pages. Um, which could be a very frustrating experience 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.760 for someone who doesn't prefer to use Internet Explore unless 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.520 I can't I don't have any other option. Nate, have 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:10.240 you ever had that issue too, where you've had to 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:14.800 work someplace where the way a system was designed, you 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:18.680 had to use a specific type of browser to access it. Um. 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:22.040 I'm I work at one now, so I probably shouldn't 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:28.719 say very much. But it's a very secure internal culprit environment, sure, 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.440 and and I mean that that's one of the reasons 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.200 why I mean, I still have a version of Internet 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.760 Explorer that runs on my machine because, uh, there there 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:43.039 are certain internal technologies we use that it really only 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.760 works with Internet Exploring. Now once once it's up on 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:49.320 the web, any browser can see the stuff, but for 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:53.360 the internal purposes we use things that will only work 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:58.240 with Internet Explorer. And of course we're also very concerned 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.120 about security. So it's but it's one of those things 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:03.159 that you know, if if you had built it on 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.800 Internet Explorer six, this would be a huge concern obviously 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:12.640 because of those vulnerabilities. Um Fortunately, I think most companies 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.160 don't rely on that, or they are relying on one 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.200 that has been patched thoroughly so that those vulnerabilities are 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.640 no longer an issue. But it was, you know, for 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:27.000 someone who doesn't like Grandma, who doesn't necessarily know how 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:30.320 this stuff works, it's a problem, right. It's it's not 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:34.160 easy to explain to someone who hasn't grown up around 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:38.280 the world of software and software patches that this is 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:41.280 an issue at all. It's I mean, it's hard enough 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:44.640 just to explain that this is not the Internet, it's 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:48.840 a browser. So yeah, so definitely it was a black 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:52.200 mark against Microsoft. Um and it's funny because I I 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:56.600 looked on granted, depends upon what source you use, but 0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:00.800 I looked at one, uh resource that looks at the 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:07.560 market share various browsers, and three point one of users 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:11.320 in China, according to this source, are still using Internet 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:16.880 Explorers six. Three seems like a small number, but that 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.520 means hundreds of thousands of people are still using Internet 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:25.320 Explorers six and that's yeah, I mean incredible. China is 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:30.720 an interesting one, and because of the rempants piracy that 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:35.600 has taken place there over the last couple of decades, 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:39.440 in particular when it comes to computer software, and there 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:43.839 are so many old computers out there, computers that physically 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:50.160 can't run more recent operating systems that for some machines 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.440 that may be the limit of what they can even 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.960 install because of how old the hardware is. The same 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:59.400 in in in in parts of India, So that's probably 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:01.600 a factor. Um. The other the other thing is that 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.760 there are a lot of banks, believe it or not, 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:08.960 that have this really old software installed. I'm not saying 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.160 that's the case in China particular, but just generally there 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.120 are a lot of a lot of places and schools too, 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:16.160 I mean. And that's the other thing is that when 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:19.840 you spend a lot of money and energy and resources 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:24.560 on building an infrastructure and it's using a particular you know, 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:30.880 particular suite of software or a particular operating system. It's 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:32.679 you know, you've created this system that now we call 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:34.960 legacy system at the time. Of course, it's not a legacy. 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.080 It's just what you've built, and you built it because 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.360 you needed something, and this, you know, the suite, did 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.720 the stuff you needed. The problem is that, you know, 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:47.319 you don't necessarily have those resources to dedicate to reinventing 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.320 that every time there's a new operating system that comes out, 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.640 especially if you're talking about really big systems where it 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:58.760 would require a massive effort across multiple locations in order 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:03.040 for everyone to stay in communication with each other. And 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.120 that's where you run into these problems. I mean, if 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.640 there are no easy solutions, it's very easy for us 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:11.000 to say, hey, upgrade your operating system or upgrade your browser, 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.680 because on a user to user level, it's not as 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.760 big a deal. I mean, it might require some financial 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.160 investment if you're talking about having to get a new 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:25.959 machine that's capable of running a newer version of that software, 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.520 but ultimately, ultimately it's not as big a deal as 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:35.520 is telling a an industry or even just a particular 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.280 company within that industry, Hey, you need to do this. 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.800 It's a much larger effort on that their part. So 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:46.320 as flippant as I'm being, I do realize that, you know, 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.480 it's not so simple as oh, we need to we 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:52.480 need to install this new program. It's you know, sometimes 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:56.520 it's not the new browser. Like you said, Nate could 0:10:56.640 --> 0:11:03.320 require uh, more advanced hardware or a more advanced operating system. Yeah. Alright, 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.600 So that was two thousand one. Now we're going to 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:10.760 skip ahead to two thousand four because there were no 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:14.640 updates in that time. But on November nine, two four, 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:19.320 a big competitor to Internet Explorer would launch the Mozilla 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:24.960 foundations Firefox one point Oh goes Live. Firefox was the 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:30.440 first real challenger to the dominance of Internet Explorer, uh 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.960 to to really you know, capture a lot of people's attention. 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:38.160 Before there had been devotees of other browsers, but they 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:42.240 were pretty small audiences. Firefox was one that actually threatened 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:47.679 to take some real uh chunks out of Microsoft. And 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.400 part of that was because there was still this ongoing 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:54.280 issue with Internet Explorer six and the security vulnerabilities that 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.839 had had such a you know, I had a pretty 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.679 bad reputation. Meanwhile, you might say, well, why why didn't 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:04.280 micro Soft come out with a new version. Well, until 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.679 Firefox came out, there wasn't really a need for it, right, 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.520 I mean, there were no If you don't have a competitor, 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:12.880 then you don't have a lot of incentive to improve 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.720 your product. It's one of the problems, one of the reasons, 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:17.800 one of the big reasons you don't want any monopolies 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.840 out there, because you would rather have competition that drives 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:25.000 the various entities to continue to innovate and invest in 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:28.199 their technology so that you ultimately get better stuff out 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.520 of it. If there are no competitors, then you've got 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.320 to just hope that the entities are motivated enough to 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.559 continue that innovation and investment, which is not always the case, 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.920 and it wasn't in this one. So October two thousand 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:47.559 six we see Microsoft launched Internet Explorers seven because Firefox 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:51.240 was starting to eat at Microsoft's heels. It was starting 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.120 to take up some of that market share, and Microsoft 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:58.000 suddenly realized, hey, we might have a problem here. We 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.720 might need to to start really looking at innovating in 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.960 this space again, because we're not the only player in 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:09.960 town anymore. So this was a five year, you know, 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.120 absence of updates, and then we finally get one in 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:17.840 two thousand six. Um. So Internet Explore seven was also 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.959 the first time they changed the name, because the previous 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:26.280 editions of Internet Explorer were all called Microsoft Internet Explorer whatever. 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:31.720 This time they were called Windows Internet Explorer whatever. So 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.920 Windows Internet Explorer seven. Uh. Interesting because of the settlement 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.800 with the United States Department of Justice earlier about how 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:44.600 they didn't really want to give the indication that Windows 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:48.360 and Internet Explorer were so tightly integrated. But after the 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:50.880 settlement of that case, I guess they were. Microsoft was 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.839 looking at it saying, look, if you if you use 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.640 the Windows environment, this is the browser you want. I 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:01.480 guess that was their marketing push as opposed, and it 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:06.000 became the bundle browser for a much maligned piece of software, 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.320 Windows Vista. We'll be back with more of this classic 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:20.720 episode of tech stuff after this quick break. I think 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:24.080 Windows visted it more from Macintosh sales than Apple ever did. 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:30.080 It wasn't It wasn't great to begin with. It was 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.479 basically all right by the end, but yeah, it was. 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.280 It was one of those that did require patches to 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.240 make it to the point where people gave it that 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:41.800 kind of damning praise. Right, well, it was all by 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.560 the end, it was okay, But when it came out 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:46.920 it was not okay. There were a lot of issues. 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.520 I mean, I remember all the different permissions windows that 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.120 would pop up whenever you wanted to do anything, and 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:56.000 Windows this stuff, and it was almost like Microsoft had 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:02.000 overreacted to the problems it had experienced previously with products 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.800 like Internet Explorer six, where I said, well, we want 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:10.440 to make sure that we are being really uh concerned 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.960 with security and safety. So now you're going to have 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.440 to go through five permissions pages whenever you want to 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.160 run anything on your machine, every time you want to 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:23.760 run it. So this was maligned, probably justifiably when it 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.760 first came out, But then, like like we said, it 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:31.200 got better with patches, although it was too little, too 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.600 late at that point, I think. And essentially you had 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:39.720 all these different people and companies, school systems, everything saying 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.720 you know what, We're gonna stick with Windows XP because 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.560 even though this operating system is the new one, uh, 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.720 it breaks everything, So I'm going to use this older 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.880 operating system. Uh. And I can say, like in my career, 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:58.320 we went from Windows XP to Windows seven. We did not. 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:02.200 We did not transition to Vista. I went Windows XP 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:07.720 to Mac. Um not particularly because of Vista, to be honest, Um, 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:09.720 but I but but I think that was the turning 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.040 point for a lot of people. It was either ignore 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.360 Vista and then moved to seven, or ignore Vista and 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:18.200 moved to the Mac. Yeah. I think, you know, and 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.800 and I think even you know, looking at at some 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.920 of the other operating systems out there, things like Lenox, 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:28.440 I mean, you know, I don't think well, Lennox has 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.880 its own like uh devotees who are all the developers 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.720 who who love to work with that operating system and 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:40.680 help make it better, and it's almost like a crowdsourced OS. Uh, 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:44.040 but they you know, I think things like Vista definitely 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:48.760 help fuel that kind of passion because you look at 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.640 what is the product of a corporation saying here's what 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:56.720 we think operating systems should be versus uh something like 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.520 uh Mac, which you know, Apple has done a great 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.480 job at positioning themselves as we know that you think 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:05.320 you know what you want, but we're telling you what 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.600 you want and you're gonna love it and it works 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.760 because it's designed so well. Uh and then you have 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.160 the Linux approach, whereas we know what we want because 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:16.520 we're the ones making it. Yes, well there is that 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.560 as well, and and and Linux is so infinitely flexible 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.760 from the you know, if you want to build your 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.480 own operating system. You know t version of Linux once 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.440 that was designed in the style of an anime series 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:33.080 called Serial Experiments Lane, which is very weird techie anime 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:34.680 if you want to check that out. But I wanted 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.600 to point something out that we actually didn't discuss and 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:39.520 put in show notes here, but it just occurred to 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:42.080 me as we've been talking that there was a there 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:48.320 was a a parallel change in computer usage at this 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.679 point in the Internet Explorer, a lifestyle, which was the 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:56.960 introduction and introduction and success of the netbook that did 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:01.520 the opposite of what Microsoft would have wanted with Vista, 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.600 which required um, you know, more of a high powered, 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.640 high spect machine. It was much visually it was much 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:11.159 more visually rich. Vista was that is versus XP. And 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.679 then the netbook came out and became this giant pre 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:20.520 iPad pre tablet craze of hundred dollar little portable notebooks 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:23.359 that needed to run really low power old stuff. So 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.199 they ran XP and they ran I six or they 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.600 run Linux. Of course, Um, you know, and I think 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.960 that that that was such a popular choice of machine 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.080 for admittually only maybe a couple of years, but I 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:37.960 think it may have made a difference at the whole 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:42.360 XP thing. And definitely once two thousand seven rolls around, 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:46.000 you had Apple introduced the iPhone, and that really changed 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.800 the game because suddenly you had well, at least here 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:51.480 in the United States, I mean here in the US. 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.479 This is where Nate can can kind of chuckle, because 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.960 in the US the smartphone was adopted very late on 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:00.359 the consumer side, whereas you know and your up you 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:04.000 had some some smartphones that had traction before the iPhone 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.280 came out. Here in the US, the iPhone might as 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.760 well have been the first smartphone ever. The only people 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.919 who had any other type of smartphone were executives who 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.920 had blackberries here in the US. That was very kind 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:17.480 of you. It was very kind of you to to 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:20.040 suggest that we were far ahead of the game. I 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.320 think really that the sort of we're in the realms 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.640 of these sort of Nokia communicate the sort of thing, 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.600 and um, they weren't they weren't particularly smart, but they 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.159 were more feature rich definitely than in some of the 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:34.880 U S phones because because no kid didn't do anything 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:38.080 really in North America at the time, right, yeah, here, 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.880 if you had a phone that could browse the web 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:43.640 via text like it was just a text based browser, 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.600 then you were ahead of the game. Then. But then 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.399 the iPhone comes out and uh, suddenly you have a 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:54.280 new way of viewing the web, which would get improved 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.639 considerably with future generations of the iPhone, and then with 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:01.920 competitors like the Android phone, and ultimately with Windows Mobile, 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:07.080 Windows Phone and then just Windows for mobile devices. Um. 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:10.880 But you know that really change the game big time, 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:12.560 to the point where now if you look at market 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:16.199 share of what's being used to browse the web, the 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:20.360 mobile devices are killing it. And so you see things 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.119 like iOS is a huge player in market share for 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.879 web browsers if you're if you include mobile devices, if 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:29.399 you look at just desktops, then Internet Explorer is still 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:34.119 a large a large player, especially once you factor in 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.880 all the different versions of Internet Explorer. They're still in use. 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:41.640 But two thousand seven ends up being a big year 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:45.840 because we start seeing mobile become a true competitor or 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:50.359 at least a a potential competitor in the web browsing space. 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.919 March two thousand nine would be when Microsoft launched Internet 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:57.479 Explorer eight, which was the first browser to pass the 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:01.200 ACID two test. Did not asked the ACID three tests, 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.440 but it passed the ACID to test, which was that's 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.439 a test designed to check a browser's ability to render 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:09.760 a web page based upon the intended design of that page. 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:11.840 This goes back to what I was saying before, where 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:15.280 you just painstakingly create a web page and you can't 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:17.520 wait for someone to see it. I mean by by 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:19.760 can't wait, I mean if you if you could go 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:24.240 back and visit the web pages of the mid nineties, 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:28.720 I guarantee you that more than eighty percent of them 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:32.720 would have a counter somewhere on that web page that 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:36.080 would tell you what number you were to visit that 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:39.800 web page. Uh. Those were ubiquitous back in the day. 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.440 Do you remember those where you'll be like, oh, look, 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:45.960 I I was the hundred and third thousandth person to 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:50.240 visit this website. I remember installing one of mine and 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:51.920 just thinking like, why do I do this? I can 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:54.720 like it's been three months and I can still count 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:56.520 the number of people who have visited my website on 0:21:56.600 --> 0:22:01.480 two hands. But you know that was one of those 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:04.080 things where again, you know, you put this care into 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.000 it and you really wanted to make sure that all 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:10.960 the browsers were going to render it properly. Uh. And 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:13.160 it was very important for Microsoft at the time because 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:16.640 they were no longer like no one version of Internet 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:21.800 Explorer was now the dominant one because Firefox had done 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:25.840 so well. So if you're the dominant player, then sure 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:29.680 you could essentially define how web pages should look. Your 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:31.879 browser is the one that people should be designing for 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:35.320 because you're the one that most people are using, and 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:37.760 anyone who's using a different web browser is going to 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:42.720 have a potentially, at any rate, a less than ideal experience. 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.040 But who cares because you're the one who's the biggest 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:47.080 player in town. When you're no longer the biggest player 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:50.040 in town or there are viable competitors out there, you 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:53.679 have to start rethinking that strategy. So Microsoft did a 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:56.760 good thing here and building a web browser that was 0:22:56.880 --> 0:23:00.040 going to be more true to the designs of the 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:03.879 web page administrators than what they had previously been doing, 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:07.480 and also benefited those of us who actually used Firefox 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:10.600 or some other browser at that time, so that was 0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:15.080 that was good, go ahead. It's an interesting period because 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:19.520 all this time or this discussion, Opera was chugging along 0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:23.160 in the background doing its thing. And just as we've 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:25.320 been talking, I just download and installed up on my 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:26.720 map because I just wanted to see what it looks 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:29.760 like these days. It's based on chromium UM, like like 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:34.280 Google chromes. And you know, Opera has always been this underdog. 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:37.680 It's just never done very well at market share wise, 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:40.679 but it's always had this incredibly loyal fan base and 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:44.040 does really innovative things on the mobile side and always has. 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:47.080 And I remember and about two thousand and seven I 0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:49.960 wrote an article for s net saying Opera should stop 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:53.000 making desktop browsers and just focus on mobile as its future. 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:55.040 And I had one person who said that I should 0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:57.440 throw myself off the top of the s NET building 0:23:57.560 --> 0:24:02.600 for saying something so heinous against the beloved right. And 0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:05.320 I still, you know, nearly ten years on, I stunned 0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:08.560 by that they should focus on mobile UM And I 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:13.560 hope that person revisits my article UM from and says, oh, yes, 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:16.280 you were right. Well, you know, it's very forward thinking 0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:18.840 because as it turns out, you know, mobile browsing has 0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:23.359 become so important now that that's where everybody is looking. 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:26.679 I mean, you know, not the desktop browsing has gone away, 0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:29.800 or that there aren't other platforms. I mean, heck, I 0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:33.280 sometimes I browse the web very rarely, but sometimes I 0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:37.160 browse the web on my Xbox so that I can 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:41.359 watch certain content that I couldn't otherwise, or that I, um, 0:24:41.440 --> 0:24:43.920 you know, might want to have a podcast on in 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:46.440 the background and that's the easiest way for me to 0:24:46.640 --> 0:24:53.560 play it. Um So, But the mobile certainly is is 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:56.040 at least as important, if not more important, than desktop 0:24:56.040 --> 0:24:59.919 browsing is these days. So everyone really needed to be 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:02.080 looking at mobile. I think you were really just giving 0:25:02.119 --> 0:25:04.960 some valuable advice, honestly. I mean I really I was 0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:08.600 trolling for page views mostly, but but it was based 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:12.919 on it was based on real opinion and a fact. 0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:15.840 I believe. You know, we we've all engaged in some 0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:18.480 clickbait at some point or another. I mean, you know, 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:21.840 we've got more to say in this classic episode of 0:25:21.880 --> 0:25:33.320 tech stuff after these quick messages. So the Internet Explorer 0:25:33.359 --> 0:25:36.520 eight is currently the second most popular version of Internet 0:25:36.520 --> 0:25:39.960 Explorer as far as market share, goes. Keep in mind, 0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:43.360 we're up to eleven now, and in fact, in an 0:25:43.400 --> 0:25:47.320 Internet Explorer eleven is the current most popular version of 0:25:47.320 --> 0:25:50.560 i E on the market. I E eight is second, 0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:54.119 So that means nine and ten didn't do quite so well. Uh. 0:25:54.160 --> 0:25:58.680 And perhaps I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, 0:25:59.280 --> 0:26:01.840 but perhaps it's one of the reasons that it has 0:26:02.040 --> 0:26:04.520 done so well for so long is that is the 0:26:04.640 --> 0:26:07.760 last version of Internet Explorer that's capable of running on 0:26:07.800 --> 0:26:12.320 a Windows XP machine. So it may be that we 0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:14.960 have still a significant number of folks out there who 0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:18.920 are running the Windows XP operating system. They never upgraded 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:23.560 to Vista or seven or eight or ten now, uh, 0:26:23.600 --> 0:26:26.399 and they're they're staying with Windows XP for one reason 0:26:26.520 --> 0:26:29.840 or another, and they might be running Internet Explorer eight. 0:26:30.080 --> 0:26:33.560 That's a guess, but I think it's a fair one. Yeah. 0:26:33.600 --> 0:26:36.560 I mean, in the mobile world, it's I'm sure a 0:26:36.600 --> 0:26:39.320 lot of people listening have had the experience of downloading 0:26:39.920 --> 0:26:43.960 an app and then downloading an update. A week later, 0:26:45.000 --> 0:26:47.280 firing up the app and being told that your OS 0:26:47.720 --> 0:26:49.960 is out of date and you need to update, and 0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:53.400 that's because Apple or or Android or something has been 0:26:53.480 --> 0:26:57.240 up has a has released an update in the time 0:26:57.280 --> 0:26:59.720 between you downloading the app and firing up the app, 0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:03.280 and you've updated the app in that time without firing 0:27:03.280 --> 0:27:06.720 it up or updating your OS, and it's already out 0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:10.240 of date. Like it's crazy. Personally, I haven't had that issue, 0:27:10.400 --> 0:27:12.359 but that's because I use the Next of six, so 0:27:12.400 --> 0:27:17.800 I get those updates like immediately. But then although iPhone 0:27:17.880 --> 0:27:21.200 users out there like, yeah, that's regular, I'll breaking procedure 0:27:21.240 --> 0:27:24.160 for me, Yeah, I have an Next to six as well. 0:27:24.280 --> 0:27:27.280 To be fair, I do. Yeah, that's so sort of 0:27:27.320 --> 0:27:31.600 my Android sort of test phone thing because I I 0:27:31.680 --> 0:27:33.600 used that for your main phone has to be an 0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:37.040 iPhone night, I imagine. Yeah, alright, how do you like 0:27:37.080 --> 0:27:38.639 the Next of six? I know this is a tangent, 0:27:38.680 --> 0:27:40.919 but I have to ask. Um. I love it. I 0:27:40.960 --> 0:27:43.520 really like it. Um. I use the iPhone six Plus 0:27:43.520 --> 0:27:45.000 is my main phone, so the next is six just 0:27:45.000 --> 0:27:49.119 feels like an evolution of that. UM feel wise and 0:27:49.320 --> 0:27:51.639 the screens, the screens nice, The battery life for me 0:27:51.680 --> 0:27:54.760 has been pretty good, and the I don't know. I 0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:56.560 just like it, but I don't use it that much, 0:27:56.600 --> 0:27:58.760 to be honest. It was it's just like a like 0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:02.600 a sort of a dunny review unit type thing that's 0:28:02.720 --> 0:28:05.520 been hanging around, right. I just wish it were a 0:28:05.600 --> 0:28:08.119 little bit larger, so that way, if I held it 0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:10.320 over my head on a sunny day, I could shade 0:28:10.320 --> 0:28:12.840 my entire body. It is a big phone. It isn't 0:28:12.840 --> 0:28:14.680 become But like I said, I don't use it that much. 0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:16.840 It's it's mostly that for me to test Android and 0:28:17.200 --> 0:28:19.159 if I need, if I want to review or right 0:28:19.240 --> 0:28:24.160 about new apps, it's just there. Um, yeah, it's fine, Yeah, 0:28:24.359 --> 0:28:27.800 I understand. Well, getting back to Internet Explorer, this is 0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:30.199 where we're starting to talk about some of the boring 0:28:30.240 --> 0:28:31.959 ones for me. So I guess that's why I'm so 0:28:32.080 --> 0:28:36.320 eager to go off on tangents. But March four, Internet 0:28:36.320 --> 0:28:39.760 explored nine debuts and it had the tagline the Beauty 0:28:39.800 --> 0:28:43.320 of the Web, So finally we could experience that. I 0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:45.600 was it was good that by two thousand eleven we 0:28:45.640 --> 0:28:48.760 could finally see the beauty of the web after all 0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:54.200 that text and the red exes for images that wouldn't load. Um, 0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:57.000 this one wasn't tied to the premiere of any new 0:28:57.080 --> 0:29:00.600 operating system, which might be one of the reasons why 0:29:00.680 --> 0:29:03.480 it's not as popular as I E eight or I 0:29:03.600 --> 0:29:06.960 E eleven because it was not it wasn't bundled with 0:29:06.960 --> 0:29:11.200 an operating system UM, so it could run on Windows 0:29:11.280 --> 0:29:14.080 Vista Service Pack two or later versions of the Windows 0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:16.840 operating system. There was no support for Windows XP. Like 0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:20.200 we said, I E eight was the last Internet Explorer 0:29:20.240 --> 0:29:23.560 to run on that platform. And you could do things 0:29:23.600 --> 0:29:26.880 like you could pen websites to the application bar, which 0:29:26.960 --> 0:29:29.400 would allow you to navigate straight to those right away. 0:29:29.400 --> 0:29:32.080 So if there were sites that you always go to, 0:29:32.560 --> 0:29:35.280 you know, you just you know there, there's always there's 0:29:35.320 --> 0:29:37.600 three that I always opened up first thing in the day, 0:29:37.880 --> 0:29:39.840 as soon as I load up my browser, then it 0:29:39.880 --> 0:29:41.960 would makes sense to pen those first three just to 0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:44.280 be able to click on whichever ones or even pin 0:29:44.400 --> 0:29:46.400 them together. You could do that as well, where you 0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:50.840 could open up multiple tabs and just associate the ones 0:29:50.880 --> 0:29:53.360 that you always go to first thing. That way, you 0:29:53.400 --> 0:29:57.239 don't have to spend those precious that calories typing in 0:29:58.000 --> 0:30:00.120 the first few letters of whatever you are l you 0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:04.400 go to each time. UM but a very innovative approach 0:30:04.400 --> 0:30:07.480 at the time. And UH. It also had a download 0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:10.520 manager that would allow users to pause downloads and alert 0:30:10.600 --> 0:30:13.840 users to potentially malicious files. Very important as far security 0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:16.800 is concerned. Something that is pretty much standardized throughout all 0:30:16.800 --> 0:30:21.600 browsers now, but was brand new back in at least 0:30:21.640 --> 0:30:25.480 for Internet Explorer anyway, and it includes support for HTML 0:30:25.560 --> 0:30:28.480 five for audio and video tags. So we started to 0:30:28.520 --> 0:30:33.520 see that that migration, which is still happening from four 0:30:33.560 --> 0:30:38.000 to five UM. So you know, it was important. It 0:30:38.120 --> 0:30:41.719 just didn't make a huge impact. Ah. In fact, I 0:30:41.760 --> 0:30:43.880 can't even I don't think I've ever used E E nine. 0:30:44.280 --> 0:30:45.920 I don't think I ever got to a point where 0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:49.640 I used that. I yeah, I don't know. I think 0:30:49.680 --> 0:30:52.760 I think I will have done because I was I 0:30:52.880 --> 0:30:56.360 was all Mac at that point. My machine I was 0:30:56.400 --> 0:30:58.920 at Wired at the time, My all my my machines 0:30:59.160 --> 0:31:02.200 at wide would MAX as well. But I did always 0:31:02.240 --> 0:31:07.800 have UM either a Parallels installation of Windows so I 0:31:07.840 --> 0:31:10.840 could do my browser test because I always did the 0:31:10.880 --> 0:31:14.160 browser reviews UM for seen it in the UK, and 0:31:14.200 --> 0:31:16.480 then Wired as well after that, so I always sort 0:31:16.480 --> 0:31:18.800 of kept I kept them installed, so I must have 0:31:18.960 --> 0:31:23.960 used it at some point, but certainly I E seven 0:31:24.320 --> 0:31:26.800 was the last one that I could honestly say I 0:31:26.880 --> 0:31:32.280 really remember using. Possibly I E eighty. That so no, no, 0:31:32.280 --> 0:31:36.200 no lasting impression here. Um. Yeah, I imagine that people 0:31:36.240 --> 0:31:38.520 with MAX would yeah, I run boot camp, so I 0:31:38.520 --> 0:31:40.760 could run I e nine. That would really shock me. 0:31:41.760 --> 0:31:44.480 I would not be I would be a well why 0:31:44.840 --> 0:31:47.840 please tell me what what's the I can tell you 0:31:47.840 --> 0:31:50.320 why you might want to do that. Max or some 0:31:50.360 --> 0:31:53.000 of the particularly quite a while was some of the 0:31:53.040 --> 0:31:56.560 best Windows machines you could buy. That's like, buy a 0:31:56.600 --> 0:31:58.600 MacBook Air and put Windows on It is a better 0:31:58.680 --> 0:32:00.880 experience for most Windows is who didn't want to use 0:32:00.880 --> 0:32:02.480 a map, or rather who didn't want to use those 0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:06.400 turn right? Well did you? Uh? Do you? Do? You 0:32:06.440 --> 0:32:09.240 find it amusing when PC users try to go the 0:32:09.240 --> 0:32:12.280 other way and create hackintosh is. It seems like a 0:32:12.320 --> 0:32:14.200 bit of a waste of time. But I suspect that 0:32:14.240 --> 0:32:16.160 there are people that are probably doing it more for 0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:18.080 the joy of making it work than the fact that 0:32:18.120 --> 0:32:20.400 it's productive for them to do so. Once they've done it, 0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:22.480 you know what I mean. But I also say I 0:32:22.520 --> 0:32:24.560 and I am a Windows user. I mean my gaming 0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:27.720 machine is a Windows PC. It's a big fat gaming 0:32:27.760 --> 0:32:31.320 rig with a twenty one nine ultra y curved monitor 0:32:31.720 --> 0:32:34.920 that's all Windows. But but it literally loads Steam and 0:32:35.000 --> 0:32:38.360 most realistically, it really loads Elder Scrolls Online as soon 0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:42.360 as I turn it on, like nothing else. I was 0:32:42.400 --> 0:32:44.120 gonna say, like, with that huge screen, it's got to 0:32:44.160 --> 0:32:47.760 be papers. Please, you're just playing papers please? Yeah, No, 0:32:47.880 --> 0:32:52.440 it's my immersive Elder Scrolls experience. Well that's that's good now, 0:32:52.480 --> 0:32:55.200 I know. I know what MMO. I could run into 0:32:55.240 --> 0:32:58.120 you if I ever, if I ever dive into that world. 0:32:58.480 --> 0:33:00.840 Oh please, do you are well? You would make a 0:33:00.960 --> 0:33:05.400 fantastic Nord. I'm still playing. Actually, I'm still playing Skyrim again. 0:33:05.520 --> 0:33:08.680 I mean I keep playing it through. I don't know 0:33:08.800 --> 0:33:13.000 why I've played. I finally actually finished the game. For 0:33:13.040 --> 0:33:15.280 the longest time, I was not finishing the game. I 0:33:15.320 --> 0:33:17.600 was just doing all the side quests. So maybe I 0:33:17.640 --> 0:33:19.600 need to Maybe I finally need to say goodbye to 0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:23.120 Skyrim and jump on. We should take this conversation offline, 0:33:23.120 --> 0:33:25.320 because I definitely want to persuade you to get into 0:33:25.360 --> 0:33:28.720 eldest Rolls online. But we'll we'll save eldest Rolls for 0:33:28.800 --> 0:33:31.240 a future tech stuff, perhaps because that in itself has 0:33:31.280 --> 0:33:34.000 a rich history as a franchise. We'll revisit. Yeah. I 0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:36.680 actually I remember getting to play the early build of 0:33:36.680 --> 0:33:40.840 that at a c E three several years ago. But okay, 0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:42.760 we'll say that for the next one. Let's let's let's 0:33:42.920 --> 0:33:46.960 power on through the end of Internet Explorer. April twelve, 0:33:46.960 --> 0:33:50.840 two eleven, that's when Microsoft announces Internet Explorer ten. It 0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:54.960 was less than a month from releasing Internet Explorer nine, 0:33:55.080 --> 0:33:58.080 so they released nine, and less than a month later 0:33:58.160 --> 0:34:01.920 they say, hey, Internet Explored tennis coming, which seems like 0:34:01.960 --> 0:34:06.000 a weird choice, especially when Internet Explorer nine wasn't being 0:34:06.040 --> 0:34:09.200 bundled with an operating system. So I don't know why 0:34:09.200 --> 0:34:13.600 they expected people to migrate to nine if they announced, hey, 0:34:13.680 --> 0:34:16.960 something even better is coming really soon. That that to 0:34:17.040 --> 0:34:20.680 me is a very odd decision. Um. I honestly don't 0:34:20.760 --> 0:34:25.520 understand the motivation behind that, unless they probably for like 0:34:25.600 --> 0:34:28.320 accounting purposes more than anything else, to show the return 0:34:28.320 --> 0:34:34.240 on investment. Maybe I mean that since Internet Explorer wasn't 0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:36.400 like a product that you would go out and purchase, 0:34:37.320 --> 0:34:41.920 maybe they just didn't care. It's kind of hard to say. Uh. 0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:44.160 They showed a demo of an early build of I 0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:48.640 E ten at the MIX eleven conference in Las Vegas, 0:34:48.680 --> 0:34:54.200 d M i x UH conference in Vegas, I've never 0:34:54.239 --> 0:34:55.799 been to that one. That's one of the few that 0:34:55.840 --> 0:34:59.359 I have not attended. UH. It was September two thousand eleven. 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:03.160 They showed a Meveloper preview of Windows eight UM that 0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:06.359 ended up becoming available to the general public. So if 0:35:06.480 --> 0:35:08.560 you wanted to get your hands on an early build 0:35:08.560 --> 0:35:10.640 of Windows eight and then be one of the many 0:35:10.680 --> 0:35:15.239 people who complained about the metro UH layout, you could 0:35:15.239 --> 0:35:19.120 have done that. Then I was one of those people. Yeah. 0:35:19.160 --> 0:35:21.480 We we actually just had a machine here at how 0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:24.400 Stuff Works that was the Windows eight machine, and it 0:35:24.480 --> 0:35:27.200 was a Windows eight machine that did not have a 0:35:29.080 --> 0:35:31.160 well no one, no one was using it. Well, first 0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:32.560 of all, there wasn't a whole lot of software we 0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:35.239 could use with it, and secondly, we didn't have a 0:35:35.280 --> 0:35:40.160 touch sensitive screen. So you were using this interface that 0:35:40.480 --> 0:35:44.040 was clearly designed after the UI you would see in 0:35:44.040 --> 0:35:49.880 a tablet, but transmitted transferred rather to a desktop experience. 0:35:50.239 --> 0:35:54.359 But if you didn't have a touch screen monitor and 0:35:54.400 --> 0:35:57.520 you were navigating it through your basic keyboard and mouse, 0:35:58.000 --> 0:36:00.880 it was not a very satisfying experience, at least not 0:36:00.920 --> 0:36:03.840 for me. I could easily see why it would be 0:36:03.960 --> 0:36:06.840 very attractive if you were using a touch screen device, 0:36:06.880 --> 0:36:09.640 although I'm not big on touch screen monitors because I 0:36:09.680 --> 0:36:12.120 don't like having big, old, greasy fingerprints all over my 0:36:12.120 --> 0:36:15.680 monitor all the time. Um. I prefer my desktop to 0:36:15.680 --> 0:36:18.840 be still keyboard and mouse until something better comes along. 0:36:19.800 --> 0:36:24.960 What about you, Do you use touch screen monitors? Noo? Yeah, here, 0:36:25.000 --> 0:36:26.759 I don't see. I don't see. I don't see a 0:36:26.800 --> 0:36:30.480 benefit to that, at least not in the current hardware 0:36:30.480 --> 0:36:33.000 iterations that are out there. Yeah, I don't. I don't 0:36:33.000 --> 0:36:35.040 like the idea of having to reach across and touch 0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:40.200 the screen anyway. I'm also lazy, so anything that smacks 0:36:40.239 --> 0:36:44.400 of effort I would like to edge away from unless 0:36:44.440 --> 0:36:47.880 it was absolutely necessary. I e. Ten would end up 0:36:47.920 --> 0:36:51.640 being bundled with Windows eight and Window Windows Server in 0:36:51.640 --> 0:36:54.640 the fall of and it had two modes. It had 0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:56.680 the Metro mode, so if you launched it in the 0:36:56.760 --> 0:36:59.840 Metro they no longer call it Metro, but at the 0:36:59.840 --> 0:37:02.000 time that's what we all referred to it as. If 0:37:02.000 --> 0:37:04.240 you launched it when it was in the Metro layout, 0:37:04.239 --> 0:37:07.640 which was that tiled layout of Windows eight, it had 0:37:07.640 --> 0:37:11.399 a limited limited features, and it also ended up eliminating 0:37:12.200 --> 0:37:16.439 UH pretty much the entire user interface was eliminated from 0:37:16.840 --> 0:37:20.080 casual glance. You would have to swipe from the bottom 0:37:20.160 --> 0:37:22.839 of the top in order to pull things up, But 0:37:22.920 --> 0:37:27.440 otherwise it was meant to give the website the entirety 0:37:27.640 --> 0:37:31.359 of your screens landscape. I can appreciate that on one level. 0:37:31.400 --> 0:37:35.760 I liked the idea of slimming down your your frames 0:37:35.840 --> 0:37:38.960 so that you're giving the website as much attention and 0:37:39.120 --> 0:37:41.040 as much of the focus of the user as possible. 0:37:41.719 --> 0:37:43.640 But at the same time, I want to be able 0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:45.960 to easily navigate to other sites if I need to, 0:37:46.080 --> 0:37:51.800 so I'm not crazy about completely hiding it away. Ah. 0:37:52.000 --> 0:37:53.359 I think that might have been a bit much. If 0:37:53.360 --> 0:37:56.440 you launched it in the desktop version of Internet Explorer, 0:37:56.520 --> 0:38:00.400 it was a little more like the earlier versions. It 0:38:01.040 --> 0:38:05.080 had more of the capabilities built into it. Um I think. 0:38:05.520 --> 0:38:08.880 I think Windows eight was really Microsoft's approach to trying 0:38:08.920 --> 0:38:12.680 to make the operating system as accessible to as broad 0:38:12.800 --> 0:38:16.480 range of people as possible, and I'm not sure clearly 0:38:16.480 --> 0:38:21.040 they weren't entirely successful. They The rapid development of Windows 0:38:21.080 --> 0:38:23.680 ten kind of points to that, and also just the 0:38:23.760 --> 0:38:27.160 upgrade to Windows eight point one, which ended up kind 0:38:27.160 --> 0:38:30.640 of reversing Microsoft decisions on a lot of their original points. 0:38:31.320 --> 0:38:34.000 But Microsoft tends to do this. It sort of take 0:38:34.040 --> 0:38:39.120 the talks between between big success and at least the 0:38:39.200 --> 0:38:43.840 perception of complete disaster, which is Windows uh, you know, 0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:49.319 Windows XP great success for our style, Windows Vista disappointment, 0:38:50.320 --> 0:38:55.239 Windows seven great success, Windows eight bits of disappointment. So 0:38:55.360 --> 0:38:58.040 I sort of feel that they are due a great 0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:01.640 success on the next on the next one, I think so, uh, 0:39:02.120 --> 0:39:04.279 and I guess they'll go out on a high point 0:39:04.320 --> 0:39:06.520 because it's the last one. Uh. You know. It's also 0:39:06.560 --> 0:39:10.080 interesting because this to me parallels a similar thing that 0:39:10.200 --> 0:39:15.160 happened with with Microsoft with the the announcement of Xbox one. 0:39:15.200 --> 0:39:19.120 I remember you and I had a conversation about which 0:39:19.440 --> 0:39:22.879 console we thought one E three that year when when 0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:26.040 the PlayStation four and the Xbox one we're both announced. Yes, 0:39:26.200 --> 0:39:28.480 I remember actually eating a very messy hot dog with 0:39:28.520 --> 0:39:31.520 you while we had that conversation, and then we we 0:39:31.600 --> 0:39:36.000 talked about how Microsoft made all these uh at the time, 0:39:36.040 --> 0:39:40.960 they sounded very bold and sometimes slightly dangerous, you know, 0:39:41.000 --> 0:39:45.319 as far as they're there the the way people would 0:39:45.400 --> 0:39:48.759 view the Xbox One. They made these these announcements that 0:39:48.960 --> 0:39:52.320 ultimately I think would have benefited them had they stuck 0:39:52.360 --> 0:39:56.520 with them. But they listened to the initial reaction that 0:39:56.640 --> 0:40:00.239 gamers had and they reversed some of their initial sholl 0:40:01.800 --> 0:40:07.400 their initial pronouncements, which ended up negatively impacting certain features 0:40:07.440 --> 0:40:09.880 down the road. And I think it's very similar to 0:40:09.920 --> 0:40:14.399 the way Windows eight and Internet Explorer ten the same 0:40:14.400 --> 0:40:16.960 sort of situations, they went through the same kind of cycles. 0:40:17.040 --> 0:40:20.400 They went through this like we're gonna we're really trying 0:40:20.440 --> 0:40:23.480 to push innovation. The problem was they were pushing the 0:40:23.520 --> 0:40:26.680 innovation in a direction that the the public just didn't 0:40:26.800 --> 0:40:29.560 get behind. And you know, I think this is really 0:40:29.640 --> 0:40:33.440 it's it is a problem born out of the business model. 0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:36.920 And it's not to blame Microsoft at all. This is 0:40:36.960 --> 0:40:40.520 just the way business is. But they needed to They 0:40:40.560 --> 0:40:44.120 need to give people a reason to go through what 0:40:44.400 --> 0:40:47.880 is a particularly in the corporate world, a massive, dramatic 0:40:47.960 --> 0:40:54.800 and expensive and disruptive decision to move operating systems through upgrade. 0:40:55.200 --> 0:40:59.440 So they have to change something significantly, which is why 0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:02.080 it seems to go from great too bad, too great, 0:41:02.120 --> 0:41:05.759 too bad to potentially next great again, because basically what 0:41:05.840 --> 0:41:08.680 they then change is they go back to what people 0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:11.640 wanted in the first place. You know it's a it's 0:41:11.680 --> 0:41:14.239 the problem with if it ain't broke, don't fix it. 0:41:14.320 --> 0:41:16.040 But if it ain't broke, but you need to make 0:41:16.080 --> 0:41:18.120 more money because that's what your business relies on, then 0:41:18.440 --> 0:41:20.479 maybe you don't fix it, just try and do something 0:41:20.520 --> 0:41:23.880 to it and then fix that, right right, Yeah, I 0:41:23.960 --> 0:41:26.719 mean that's that's a that's a great point, and I 0:41:27.520 --> 0:41:32.080 think it has to be endlessly frustrating to Microsoft executives 0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:38.239 to really push for big, big change is big risks 0:41:38.239 --> 0:41:41.840 and innovation and seeing it fall flat. And then watch 0:41:42.200 --> 0:41:46.239 Apple where it seems like Apple is able to make 0:41:46.280 --> 0:41:50.600 that kind of declaration and uh and do really well 0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:53.799 with it. Now that being said, there are clearly examples 0:41:53.880 --> 0:41:59.040 in Apple's past where updates to certain operating systems or 0:41:59.040 --> 0:42:04.000 software packages have been met with lots of criticism. Uh, 0:42:04.040 --> 0:42:10.080 there're certain OS updates that people absolutely despised in the 0:42:10.200 --> 0:42:14.919 in the process of the evolution of mac os. There's 0:42:14.960 --> 0:42:18.640 also I mean, anyone here at how stuff works who 0:42:18.640 --> 0:42:22.000 works in video could go on and on about changes 0:42:22.080 --> 0:42:26.320 to certain video editing suites. I love that change is brilliant. 0:42:26.360 --> 0:42:28.360 I ditched Premier to move to final cut when they 0:42:28.440 --> 0:42:31.520 change that. Really, everyone here with the other way. That's 0:42:31.520 --> 0:42:33.520 because they were probably doing it for for a living, 0:42:33.560 --> 0:42:36.440 whereas I do it semi professionally, So for me it 0:42:36.520 --> 0:42:38.719 actually sped up a lot of stuff, particularly things like 0:42:38.800 --> 0:42:43.000 multi cam. I wasn't doing anything professionally professionally with it, 0:42:43.000 --> 0:42:46.040 like it wasn't my sole job. But but but on 0:42:46.040 --> 0:42:49.520 the other hand, the big differences that Microsoft now does 0:42:49.600 --> 0:42:53.040 these big, giant, huge overhauls and pushes it as the 0:42:53.080 --> 0:42:56.520 next big thing and like the latest innovation and leap 0:42:56.560 --> 0:43:00.279 in personal and professional computing. Apple makes a big deal 0:43:00.320 --> 0:43:02.799 about its os is, but they're actually incremental. They'm all 0:43:02.840 --> 0:43:05.800 like service packs now and they are free. An Apple 0:43:05.840 --> 0:43:08.400 will trump you know, this new innovative feature and that 0:43:08.480 --> 0:43:11.799 new innovative feature, and yeah they are convenient, but you know, 0:43:12.080 --> 0:43:15.040 would you pay for it? Really? I mean people did, 0:43:15.120 --> 0:43:17.360 but it never really felt like a big deal to Apple. 0:43:17.360 --> 0:43:19.520 It more felt like just because they were making boxes 0:43:19.520 --> 0:43:21.399 and putting them on shells and shipping them around the world, 0:43:21.400 --> 0:43:23.879 they should probably charge something for them. But once it's 0:43:23.880 --> 0:43:27.200 all software and download based, it's just like me have it. 0:43:27.480 --> 0:43:31.280 So they're like completely different. It's they're not chicken and eggs, 0:43:31.280 --> 0:43:33.479 not chicken egg Sorry, they're not chalking cheese. Now, they're 0:43:33.520 --> 0:43:37.640 just we're not comparing apples to apples by comparing os 0:43:37.680 --> 0:43:42.520 tend to windows updates wise. Was that chalk and cheese 0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:46.839 that I read? Yeah, that's it's water past eleven at night. 0:43:46.880 --> 0:43:49.600 I've been up there like eighteen hours at this point. 0:43:49.680 --> 0:43:52.200 I'm fried. I'm just curious if that's if that's a 0:43:52.239 --> 0:43:55.920 common saying, or if that's just a yeah, okay, all right, Yeah, 0:43:56.000 --> 0:43:57.799 that's really common. Yeah, they're like chalk and cheese. They 0:43:57.800 --> 0:44:00.759 don't go together. I'll take your word for it. I've 0:44:00.800 --> 0:44:03.560 never heard that phrase. But I'm I'm a clause. You know, 0:44:03.800 --> 0:44:07.000 I've been very you know, sheltered my entire life, So 0:44:07.440 --> 0:44:09.239 it's quite possible it just hasn't made its way to 0:44:09.280 --> 0:44:13.239 the Deep South yet. Stay tuned for the exciting conclusion 0:44:13.360 --> 0:44:16.359 of this tex Stuff Classic episode right after we take 0:44:16.440 --> 0:44:27.160 this break. Alright, so we're in the home stretch. October 0:44:27.200 --> 0:44:33.160 sevent Microsoft releases the final version of Internet Explorer Internet 0:44:33.160 --> 0:44:37.719 Explorer eleven, which had a lot of performance improvements. It 0:44:37.800 --> 0:44:40.680 actually went when it came out. There were a lot 0:44:40.760 --> 0:44:43.960 of reviewers who put it through various speed tests and 0:44:44.080 --> 0:44:48.680 said this was competitive against all the other browsers that 0:44:48.719 --> 0:44:52.719 were current at that time, faster than a lot of them, 0:44:52.760 --> 0:44:56.680 that it had made some incredible improvements and was a 0:44:56.719 --> 0:45:00.799 true contender in the browsers space that if And in fact, 0:45:00.880 --> 0:45:03.000 I remember reading so many reviews that said, hey, if 0:45:03.000 --> 0:45:06.000 you switched the Chrome because you wanted it to load 0:45:06.080 --> 0:45:09.160 web pages faster, you don't have that reason anymore because 0:45:09.200 --> 0:45:13.080 Internet Explorer eleven was doing it as fast or faster 0:45:13.200 --> 0:45:17.520 than Chrome could. So it suddenly became clear that Microsoft 0:45:17.560 --> 0:45:22.240 had really pushed to to not just have new features, 0:45:22.280 --> 0:45:25.440 but to improve the performance so that it wasn't going 0:45:25.480 --> 0:45:28.160 to be viewed as, oh, yeah, it's this thing that 0:45:28.239 --> 0:45:31.000 everyone has because it's bundled with your operating system. It 0:45:31.080 --> 0:45:35.200 was actually a valuable browser that could stand on its 0:45:35.200 --> 0:45:40.080 own against uh, all these other competitors. So it was 0:45:40.120 --> 0:45:42.560 one of those things where you started hearing some real 0:45:42.640 --> 0:45:48.480 positive thing, you know, reviews about Internet Explorer. And yet 0:45:48.560 --> 0:45:54.200 it's also the last Internet Explorer. Uh. Microsoft announced this 0:45:54.280 --> 0:45:58.279 year that it is no longer going to be developing 0:45:58.320 --> 0:46:02.800 Internet Explorer. I sort of think that it's a necessary 0:46:02.840 --> 0:46:06.120 it's a necessary change because I think that the name 0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:10.160 I E. Is a lot worse than the product itself. 0:46:10.400 --> 0:46:15.400 Internet Explorer is a perfectly good, great, modern, fast browser 0:46:15.480 --> 0:46:18.240 now like it is. It's fine. It's a decent browser. 0:46:18.320 --> 0:46:21.440 And and if I feel that people say who you 0:46:21.480 --> 0:46:24.400 know who say, oh, I use Internet Explorer, most of 0:46:24.440 --> 0:46:28.280 us in the tech world kind of go really really, 0:46:28.280 --> 0:46:30.160 But you know what if you if you're using the 0:46:30.200 --> 0:46:33.640 latest I E on Windows eight point one, it's not 0:46:33.920 --> 0:46:37.120 a bad browser you might like. And I mean there's 0:46:37.160 --> 0:46:41.919 objectively speaking, not subjectively like objectively it's not a poor browser. Um. 0:46:42.000 --> 0:46:45.200 But the word I E. Just it just brings with 0:46:45.280 --> 0:46:50.520 it this history that you know, people just associate with 0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:56.120 either bad technology or horrible compatibility issues like you had 0:46:56.120 --> 0:46:58.560 with i E eight where you have to build basically 0:46:58.560 --> 0:47:02.400 a version of your website just for warm browser. Um, 0:47:02.440 --> 0:47:04.640 there was a lot of problems and obviously the security 0:47:04.680 --> 0:47:08.680 issues with i E six. It's you know, get rid 0:47:08.719 --> 0:47:10.800 of the name. It's a it's a real problem. Is 0:47:10.840 --> 0:47:14.720 why people don't really name their children after murderers, because 0:47:15.320 --> 0:47:20.520 well there's a yeah, yeah, exactly yeah, and and so 0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:23.160 the the next one, and who knows, by the time 0:47:23.239 --> 0:47:26.279 this podcast goes live, maybe they'll have officially announced the name. 0:47:26.320 --> 0:47:30.239 But it's code named Project Spartan, which is built on 0:47:30.600 --> 0:47:33.560 different codes. It's code that if you trace it back, 0:47:33.800 --> 0:47:37.000 you know it has roots that are common to Internet Explorer, 0:47:37.040 --> 0:47:41.399 but again it's a different evolutionary path um and it's 0:47:41.440 --> 0:47:46.480 going to uh be the new approach for browsers. There 0:47:46.480 --> 0:47:49.720 will be continued support for Internet Explorer for a while, 0:47:49.920 --> 0:47:54.800 but we're going to see that gradually taper off until 0:47:54.880 --> 0:47:57.799 we are left with whatever Project Spartan is named at 0:47:57.800 --> 0:48:00.239 the time. I am curious where they came up with 0:48:00.239 --> 0:48:05.160 that name because they have the personal assistant Cortana and Quartana. 0:48:05.520 --> 0:48:09.640 That's a character from the Halo franchise, which Microsoft owns. 0:48:09.719 --> 0:48:13.960 Now it's good PR, it's good PR. Yeah, so Halo 0:48:14.040 --> 0:48:16.680 is cool. Xpox is the coolest thing Microsoft's ever done, 0:48:17.160 --> 0:48:20.000 named after the most popular thing. That the most popular 0:48:20.040 --> 0:48:22.239 thing is named after. Yeah, I mean they weren't going 0:48:22.320 --> 0:48:25.080 to call it master Chief, so master Chief. The main 0:48:25.200 --> 0:48:29.080 character in Halo is a Spartan soldier. They the type 0:48:29.080 --> 0:48:32.359 of armor he wears is designated as Spartan. So it's 0:48:32.360 --> 0:48:35.440 possible that this is another Halo reference. It could be 0:48:35.480 --> 0:48:39.520 that Spartan is totally is a Halo reference, like it's 0:48:39.560 --> 0:48:43.480 spartan either because it's a very bland, open interface, and 0:48:43.480 --> 0:48:46.960 then possibly but it's not, is it it's it's it's halo. 0:48:47.239 --> 0:48:53.359 I still think they should call it Windows grunt Well, 0:48:53.400 --> 0:48:55.480 I guess, I guess they could call it elite. I 0:48:55.520 --> 0:48:58.239 mean that would be that would be something I would 0:48:58.239 --> 0:49:03.200 have possibly an is our connotation than gruntwood. Although honestly, 0:49:03.640 --> 0:49:07.000 depending upon what version of Windows you're running, grunting might 0:49:07.000 --> 0:49:10.440 be your natural reaction to booting up your computer. Um, 0:49:10.600 --> 0:49:13.520 because I remember running older versions of Windows on older 0:49:13.560 --> 0:49:16.120 machines and thinking, all right, I've turned my computer on. 0:49:16.320 --> 0:49:18.560 In about half an hour, I'll be able to do something. 0:49:19.360 --> 0:49:23.360 Uh at any rate. That's that's it. That is the 0:49:23.360 --> 0:49:26.399 the full blown history of Internet Explorer, from the early 0:49:26.480 --> 0:49:29.880 days before there were even web browsers to the current 0:49:29.920 --> 0:49:34.520 situation where Internet Explorer is is surfing into the sunset. 0:49:34.800 --> 0:49:38.560 I guess since we're talking about the web and we're 0:49:38.600 --> 0:49:42.360 going to get this this new type of browser in 0:49:42.400 --> 0:49:46.640 the future, Uh, it's an interesting story. I mean, you've 0:49:46.680 --> 0:49:50.440 got so much drama there, from the the any trust lawsuits, 0:49:50.719 --> 0:49:54.680 the whole dot com bubble, the intense focus on the web, 0:49:54.960 --> 0:50:00.319 Microsoft getting a little maybe not lazy, but complacent perhaps 0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:03.000 with its place. I mean, it's it's a You can 0:50:03.040 --> 0:50:06.360 also look at this and the development of the you know, 0:50:06.400 --> 0:50:10.320 the company Microsoft as well, just what that company was 0:50:10.360 --> 0:50:13.239 going through during that time. We could do a parallel 0:50:13.360 --> 0:50:18.759 timeline and really see how there was a lot going on. 0:50:19.520 --> 0:50:22.480 Oh there really was, and and and the popularity of 0:50:22.520 --> 0:50:27.560 Windows in an Explorer six and by extension, Internet Explorer 0:50:27.640 --> 0:50:31.120 six itself was both the best and the worst thing 0:50:31.200 --> 0:50:34.160 that happened to i E. As a franchise of browsers. 0:50:35.120 --> 0:50:39.200 You know, it's popularity. It accounts for over nine of 0:50:39.280 --> 0:50:42.399 all browser installations at one point around two thousand three, 0:50:42.480 --> 0:50:45.799 I think. And yet that was the one that effectively 0:50:45.840 --> 0:50:50.480 caused the downfall, you know, in terms of actual security issues, 0:50:50.560 --> 0:50:55.200 public perception, um, you know, the the the need for 0:50:55.239 --> 0:51:01.200 something to challenge the dominant monopolistic looking i E. You know, 0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:04.200 all that stuff. It caused its own ultimate downfall, and 0:51:04.400 --> 0:51:08.160 the complacency just made that worse. Yeah, without without i E. 0:51:08.360 --> 0:51:14.839 Six you don't have necessarily the the incentive for a 0:51:14.880 --> 0:51:19.000 group like the Mozilla Foundation to really push for an 0:51:19.040 --> 0:51:23.359 alternative like Firefox. And then Firefox ends up becoming not 0:51:23.520 --> 0:51:27.440 just like first it when it debuts, it's it's definitely 0:51:27.440 --> 0:51:31.680 the underdog, but then very quickly in the grand scheme 0:51:31.680 --> 0:51:35.120 of things, became a true contender. Uh yeah, I mean 0:51:35.160 --> 0:51:38.000 without without the problems of I E. Six, there wouldn't 0:51:38.040 --> 0:51:39.840 have been I don't think there would have been a 0:51:39.960 --> 0:51:43.919 drive for the alternatives. Uh. And ultimately, when you look 0:51:43.960 --> 0:51:46.239 at the way things have shaken out now, again, like 0:51:46.280 --> 0:51:50.320 we we barely touched the mobile world, but it's also 0:51:50.480 --> 0:51:54.399 what helped drive the development of things like Chromium. Uh. 0:51:54.440 --> 0:51:56.920 And then therefore you could also say it helped drive 0:51:57.000 --> 0:52:00.600 things like Android as well as chromos. Uh. You know, 0:52:00.840 --> 0:52:06.160 the world is definitely affected by Internet Explorer. Like we 0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:09.840 we would not have the same experiences that we have 0:52:09.920 --> 0:52:12.600 available to us now were it not for I E. 0:52:13.120 --> 0:52:16.359 Whether it's whether it's from Microsoft or from someone else 0:52:16.360 --> 0:52:19.240 that was trying to compete against them. So I agree. 0:52:19.320 --> 0:52:22.960 I mean, broadly speaking, what a successful product, you know, 0:52:23.040 --> 0:52:26.279 and what a great product for you know, for the 0:52:26.360 --> 0:52:29.200 last two decades. I mean, you know, I say this 0:52:29.280 --> 0:52:31.839 is a Mac user, but as someone has a deep 0:52:31.880 --> 0:52:35.239 amount of respect for Microsoft and and what it does 0:52:35.440 --> 0:52:38.319 and what it has done and Internet Explorer has to 0:52:38.320 --> 0:52:40.719 go down as one of the most popular, if not 0:52:40.880 --> 0:52:45.440 the most commendable piece of software ever made. You know, 0:52:45.600 --> 0:52:47.759 and I know that's a controversial statement, but but I 0:52:47.760 --> 0:52:50.319 think even the you know what I'm getting at that 0:52:50.560 --> 0:52:54.319 it's it has itself done so much for what the 0:52:54.360 --> 0:52:57.040 modern web is, even if it was by being too 0:52:57.040 --> 0:53:00.040 popular or too bad at one point, it has and 0:53:00.120 --> 0:53:03.279 a driver of change for the modern Internet. Hey god, 0:53:03.440 --> 0:53:05.560 I mean, I think I feel pretty safe in saying 0:53:05.600 --> 0:53:10.160 that if Internet Explorer had not been If it hadn't 0:53:10.160 --> 0:53:13.760 been for Internet Explorer, for one thing, more people would 0:53:13.760 --> 0:53:16.919 never have been introduced to the Worldwide Web because since 0:53:16.920 --> 0:53:19.839 it was bundled with the operating system, it took that 0:53:19.960 --> 0:53:23.080 barrier to entry and throw it out the door right. 0:53:23.120 --> 0:53:25.879 It made it It became something that your computer could 0:53:25.920 --> 0:53:28.440 do as soon as you got it plugged up and 0:53:28.480 --> 0:53:30.960 connected to the Internet. There's still a bit of a 0:53:30.960 --> 0:53:33.399 barrier because you still had to get connected, but once 0:53:33.400 --> 0:53:36.200 you got past that, it was already ready to go. 0:53:36.840 --> 0:53:38.920 And so there was that it helped remove that barrier 0:53:38.920 --> 0:53:41.719 to entry. And because of that, because it had this 0:53:42.320 --> 0:53:45.480 uh enabling factor that drove more people to the Web. 0:53:46.200 --> 0:53:49.480 It allowed for the creation of things like websites like 0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:53.279 how Stuff Works dot Com, which means that I ultimately 0:53:53.440 --> 0:53:58.319 was able to land my dream job. So like, I 0:53:58.400 --> 0:54:02.000 don't know that things have unfolded the same way had 0:54:02.120 --> 0:54:06.000 Microsoft not gotten into this. I'm sure. I mean, it's undoubted, 0:54:06.560 --> 0:54:09.360 there's it's impossible to say, but I mean, I'm pretty 0:54:09.360 --> 0:54:12.640 sure that there's no way the World Wide Web wouldn't 0:54:12.640 --> 0:54:17.080 still be an incredibly influential uh part of our lives. 0:54:17.120 --> 0:54:19.120 But whether it would be to the same extent that 0:54:19.200 --> 0:54:23.960 it is now without Internet Explorer, I don't know. Um. 0:54:24.000 --> 0:54:28.880 I mean, something that powerful and useful and uh and 0:54:28.880 --> 0:54:35.000 and ultimately profitable uh could not remain obscure forever, but 0:54:35.040 --> 0:54:39.799 it certainly could have taken longer without Internet Explorer for 0:54:39.920 --> 0:54:43.200 it to to get the traction that it got. So well, 0:54:43.239 --> 0:54:47.359 here's to the next years. Yeah, who knows, who knows? 0:54:47.360 --> 0:54:49.799 What you know? Maybe maybe we'll both be using a 0:54:49.840 --> 0:54:53.320 Microsoft machine and at that time and Mac will be 0:54:53.360 --> 0:54:57.359 a distant memory, and my my Chrome U my Chrome 0:54:57.400 --> 0:55:01.439 browser will be seen as as antiquated and cute. Yes, 0:55:02.239 --> 0:55:05.000 I doubt it, but we'll see. I'll be just I'll 0:55:05.000 --> 0:55:09.000 be passing through a midlife crisis and planning a sixtieth birthday. Yeah, 0:55:09.120 --> 0:55:13.279 I'll be. I'll be through my midlife crisis and well 0:55:13.320 --> 0:55:16.879 into my decline. All right. So Nate Lank said, thank 0:55:16.920 --> 0:55:19.880 you so much for joining me for these episodes. It 0:55:20.000 --> 0:55:23.080 has been a pleasure having you on the show. I 0:55:23.120 --> 0:55:26.920 greatly appreciate you taking the time and as as people 0:55:27.000 --> 0:55:29.400 have heard and maybe you maybe you didn't notice, but 0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:32.640 Nate has stayed up passed as bedtime to be on 0:55:32.680 --> 0:55:36.640 my show. So I appreciate that. Now it's much if 0:55:36.680 --> 0:55:39.320 I if I can stay up for two epic podcast episodes, 0:55:39.400 --> 0:55:42.080 time to talk about the history of a piece of software. 0:55:42.120 --> 0:55:44.880 I mean that is that is nerd tactic in my book, 0:55:44.920 --> 0:55:49.160 and it's I'm just about to relaunch an entire publication 0:55:49.320 --> 0:55:53.600 in Europe. And I am well past my bedtime definitely, 0:55:53.840 --> 0:55:56.640 and but but it's been a lot of fun and 0:55:56.960 --> 0:55:59.760 kept me kept me awake despite what I probably should 0:55:59.760 --> 0:56:03.319 have been. Well, well, Nate, I'm going to take that 0:56:03.360 --> 0:56:06.080 as a positive and uh, I hope I can have 0:56:06.160 --> 0:56:08.359 you on the show again in the future. I would 0:56:08.400 --> 0:56:12.120 love to have you back on and chatting about some 0:56:12.120 --> 0:56:16.440 some other great tech topics. Nate is incredibly well versed 0:56:16.520 --> 0:56:21.560 in tons of technology. Uh. He very graciously agreed to 0:56:21.640 --> 0:56:24.359 be on this episode next time, I promise I will 0:56:24.360 --> 0:56:28.040 give him the full list of choices and just open 0:56:28.120 --> 0:56:30.839 up the option so he can pick whatever he wants to. UH, 0:56:31.280 --> 0:56:35.399 because it was I was playing unfairly this time. And 0:56:35.480 --> 0:56:38.720 that wraps up the story of Internet Explorer, at least 0:56:38.760 --> 0:56:41.719 as far as it went there. Obviously, we could talk 0:56:41.800 --> 0:56:45.279 a lot more about Internet Explorer today and the emergence 0:56:45.360 --> 0:56:50.200 of Edge as well, and UH probably will do that 0:56:50.320 --> 0:56:52.600 at some point. Maybe I'll even get Nate back on 0:56:52.680 --> 0:56:55.280 the show. If you have suggestions for topics I should 0:56:55.280 --> 0:56:57.560 cover in future episodes of tech Stuff, please reach out 0:56:57.600 --> 0:56:59.640 to me. You can do so on Twitter. The handle 0:56:59.680 --> 0:57:02.880 for the show is tech Stuff H s W and 0:57:03.000 --> 0:57:11.040 I'll talk to you again really soon. Y. Tech Stuff 0:57:11.120 --> 0:57:14.319 is an I Heart Radio production. For more podcasts from 0:57:14.320 --> 0:57:18.080 I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:57:18.200 --> 0:57:20.200 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.