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Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host

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Speaker 1: job and Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: And how the tech are you? It's time for another

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Speaker 1: classic episode. This is actually the second part to the

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Speaker 1: classic episode we published last Friday. It is called The

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Speaker 1: Story of Internet Explorer, Part two and it originally published

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Speaker 1: on May sixth, two thousand fifteen, and has special guest

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Speaker 1: host Nate Langson on the show. Nate is awesome. If

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Speaker 1: you're not familiar with his work, definitely google Nate Langston.

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Speaker 1: He's got a ton of work to his name and

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Speaker 1: is just a really interesting, intelligent, and entertaining person. Hope

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Speaker 1: you enjoyed this classic episode. I know people who still

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Speaker 1: would prefer to use Windows XP to any of the

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Speaker 1: other operating systems that have come out since then. There

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Speaker 1: are a lot of legacy systems that depend upon Windows XP,

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Speaker 1: and you cannot migrate to a new operating system without

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Speaker 1: reinventing all these legacy systems that interact with it. Uh there.

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Speaker 1: There used to be a joke about how people would

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Speaker 1: stay on Windows XP, and now it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: sad one so I E six comes out bundled with

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Speaker 1: Windows XP. That also means that I E six has

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Speaker 1: continued to be used long after you would expect people

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Speaker 1: to have changed, you know, upgraded to some other version

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Speaker 1: of Internet Explorer. UM. PC World. This is where we

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Speaker 1: get the sad part. Called it the least secure software

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Speaker 1: on the planet because I had so many vulnerabilities. It

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Speaker 1: made the list of twenty five worst tech products of

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Speaker 1: all time from PC World. It was number eight and

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Speaker 1: number seven was a different Microsoft product, one that I

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Speaker 1: did a full episode of tech Stuff about Microsoft Bob

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Speaker 1: Oh Bob, so it's named by Bill Gates wife. Believe

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Speaker 1: we had a whole the episode. If you haven't listened

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Speaker 1: to the episode of tech Stuff, I highly recommend you

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Speaker 1: go and check that out. Lauren Vogelbaum was by co

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Speaker 1: host on that one, and we had a grand old

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Speaker 1: time dissecting Bob uh and and it was her first

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Speaker 1: time ever encountering Bob, and boy, I mean the fact

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Speaker 1: that I E six ranked higher on the list. Then

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Speaker 1: Bob tells you how bad I E six was because

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Speaker 1: Bob was atrocious. So this was another one of those problem.

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Speaker 1: It was ripe with vulnerabilities that allowed hackers to get

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Speaker 1: that same kind of level of access to a computer,

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Speaker 1: whatever level the user was logged in at. So if

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Speaker 1: you were a giant business and you only allowed your

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Speaker 1: employees to log in under a lower access level, then

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Speaker 1: that was bad but probably manageable. If you were one

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Speaker 1: of those businesses that allow employees to log in at

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Speaker 1: the admin level, it was catastrophic. And because I E

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Speaker 1: six was lumped in with Windows XP, and because Windows

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Speaker 1: XP was so popular, it meant that it was a

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Speaker 1: target rich environment. Now, Nate, you you being a Mac user,

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Speaker 1: Are you one of the Mac users who who very

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Speaker 1: smugly trumpets the fact that Max are largely UM free

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Speaker 1: from issues of viruses and malware. No, I'm one of

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Speaker 1: the people that says that they are. Well, yes I

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Speaker 1: am in a way, I am actually completely But what

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Speaker 1: I what I don't say is that MAX can't get

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Speaker 1: viruses or that they are more secure. Um. They are

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Speaker 1: in as much as everyone targets Windows, and therefore far

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Speaker 1: far a few of people are targeting MAX. But on

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Speaker 1: the other hand, MAX can also be conduits for viruses,

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Speaker 1: so you are able to pass on a virus even

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Speaker 1: if you are immune to it. You can you can

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Speaker 1: be a carrier but not be be affected by it directly.

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Speaker 1: That said, I don't run antivirus because I don't care

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Speaker 1: about Windows uses, Well why get vaccinated? Right? I mean,

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, yeah, this this this is a great but

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Speaker 1: this is a great point to make. And that again,

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Speaker 1: PCs had so much of the market share. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're still at the point where Max had not really

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Speaker 1: made a big debt. It would be it wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: until the mid to late two thousand's that we really

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Speaker 1: started seeing the Mac take off on a on a

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Speaker 1: true market share level, which meant that if you're a

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Speaker 1: hacker and you're designing malware and you're trying to hit

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Speaker 1: as many people as possible that's your goal, then you

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Speaker 1: go to where the people are, and the people were

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Speaker 1: at PCs on Windows based machines, specifically Windows XP and

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Speaker 1: Internet ex or six had all these vulnerabilities. It was

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Speaker 1: open season for hackers. Which that's why it made this

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Speaker 1: this list of the wars tech products. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: if it's a gateway, if Microsoft had not patch call

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Speaker 1: of vulnerabilities, it's a huge issue. Now Microsoft did start

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Speaker 1: to issue patches very quickly, but it was still one

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Speaker 1: of those things that became a black eye for the company.

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Speaker 1: H In fact, the problem was so serious that the

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Speaker 1: United States Computer Emergency Readiness Team told people, Hey, if

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Speaker 1: you don't have to use Internet Explorer, don't use something else.

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Speaker 1: And then the only times you should use Internet Explorer

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Speaker 1: is when you have no other option, like it's it's

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Speaker 1: something that's only compatible with Internet Explorer. Um. I've had Uh,

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Speaker 1: I've worked at companies where the intranet would only be

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Speaker 1: accessible through Internet Explorer. Other browsers just could not render

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Speaker 1: those pages. Um, which could be a very frustrating experience

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Speaker 1: for someone who doesn't prefer to use Internet Explore unless

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Speaker 1: I can't I don't have any other option. Nate, have

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Speaker 1: you ever had that issue too, where you've had to

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Speaker 1: work someplace where the way a system was designed, you

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Speaker 1: had to use a specific type of browser to access it. Um.

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Speaker 1: I'm I work at one now, so I probably shouldn't

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Speaker 1: say very much. But it's a very secure internal culprit environment, sure,

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Speaker 1: and and I mean that that's one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: why I mean, I still have a version of Internet

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Speaker 1: Explorer that runs on my machine because, uh, there there

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Speaker 1: are certain internal technologies we use that it really only

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Speaker 1: works with Internet Exploring. Now once once it's up on

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Speaker 1: the web, any browser can see the stuff, but for

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Speaker 1: the internal purposes we use things that will only work

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Speaker 1: with Internet Explorer. And of course we're also very concerned

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Speaker 1: about security. So it's but it's one of those things

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Speaker 1: that you know, if if you had built it on

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Speaker 1: Internet Explorer six, this would be a huge concern obviously

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Speaker 1: because of those vulnerabilities. Um Fortunately, I think most companies

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Speaker 1: don't rely on that, or they are relying on one

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Speaker 1: that has been patched thoroughly so that those vulnerabilities are

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Speaker 1: no longer an issue. But it was, you know, for

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Speaker 1: someone who doesn't like Grandma, who doesn't necessarily know how

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Speaker 1: this stuff works, it's a problem, right. It's it's not

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Speaker 1: easy to explain to someone who hasn't grown up around

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Speaker 1: the world of software and software patches that this is

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Speaker 1: an issue at all. It's I mean, it's hard enough

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Speaker 1: just to explain that this is not the Internet, it's

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Speaker 1: a browser. So yeah, so definitely it was a black

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Speaker 1: mark against Microsoft. Um and it's funny because I I

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Speaker 1: looked on granted, depends upon what source you use, but

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Speaker 1: I looked at one, uh resource that looks at the

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Speaker 1: market share various browsers, and three point one of users

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Speaker 1: in China, according to this source, are still using Internet

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Speaker 1: Explorers six. Three seems like a small number, but that

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Speaker 1: means hundreds of thousands of people are still using Internet

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Speaker 1: Explorers six and that's yeah, I mean incredible. China is

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Speaker 1: an interesting one, and because of the rempants piracy that

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Speaker 1: has taken place there over the last couple of decades,

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Speaker 1: in particular when it comes to computer software, and there

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Speaker 1: are so many old computers out there, computers that physically

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Speaker 1: can't run more recent operating systems that for some machines

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Speaker 1: that may be the limit of what they can even

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Speaker 1: install because of how old the hardware is. The same

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Speaker 1: in in in in parts of India, So that's probably

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Speaker 1: a factor. Um. The other the other thing is that

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of banks, believe it or not,

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Speaker 1: that have this really old software installed. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: that's the case in China particular, but just generally there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of a lot of places and schools too,

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Speaker 1: I mean. And that's the other thing is that when

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Speaker 1: you spend a lot of money and energy and resources

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Speaker 1: on building an infrastructure and it's using a particular you know,

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Speaker 1: particular suite of software or a particular operating system. It's

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Speaker 1: you know, you've created this system that now we call

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Speaker 1: legacy system at the time. Of course, it's not a legacy.

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Speaker 1: It's just what you've built, and you built it because

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Speaker 1: you needed something, and this, you know, the suite, did

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Speaker 1: the stuff you needed. The problem is that, you know,

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Speaker 1: you don't necessarily have those resources to dedicate to reinventing

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Speaker 1: that every time there's a new operating system that comes out,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're talking about really big systems where it

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Speaker 1: would require a massive effort across multiple locations in order

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Speaker 1: for everyone to stay in communication with each other. And

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Speaker 1: that's where you run into these problems. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: there are no easy solutions, it's very easy for us

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Speaker 1: to say, hey, upgrade your operating system or upgrade your browser,

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Speaker 1: because on a user to user level, it's not as

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Speaker 1: big a deal. I mean, it might require some financial

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Speaker 1: investment if you're talking about having to get a new

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Speaker 1: machine that's capable of running a newer version of that software,

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Speaker 1: but ultimately, ultimately it's not as big a deal as

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Speaker 1: is telling a an industry or even just a particular

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Speaker 1: company within that industry, Hey, you need to do this.

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Speaker 1: It's a much larger effort on that their part. So

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Speaker 1: as flippant as I'm being, I do realize that, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not so simple as oh, we need to we

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Speaker 1: need to install this new program. It's you know, sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's not the new browser. Like you said, Nate could

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Speaker 1: require uh, more advanced hardware or a more advanced operating system. Yeah. Alright,

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Speaker 1: So that was two thousand one. Now we're going to

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Speaker 1: skip ahead to two thousand four because there were no

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Speaker 1: updates in that time. But on November nine, two four,

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Speaker 1: a big competitor to Internet Explorer would launch the Mozilla

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Speaker 1: foundations Firefox one point Oh goes Live. Firefox was the

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Speaker 1: first real challenger to the dominance of Internet Explorer, uh

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Speaker 1: to to really you know, capture a lot of people's attention.

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Speaker 1: Before there had been devotees of other browsers, but they

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Speaker 1: were pretty small audiences. Firefox was one that actually threatened

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Speaker 1: to take some real uh chunks out of Microsoft. And

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Speaker 1: part of that was because there was still this ongoing

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Speaker 1: issue with Internet Explorer six and the security vulnerabilities that

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Speaker 1: had had such a you know, I had a pretty

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Speaker 1: bad reputation. Meanwhile, you might say, well, why why didn't

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Speaker 1: micro Soft come out with a new version. Well, until

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Speaker 1: Firefox came out, there wasn't really a need for it, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there were no If you don't have a competitor,

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Speaker 1: then you don't have a lot of incentive to improve

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Speaker 1: your product. It's one of the problems, one of the reasons,

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Speaker 1: one of the big reasons you don't want any monopolies

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Speaker 1: out there, because you would rather have competition that drives

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Speaker 1: the various entities to continue to innovate and invest in

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Speaker 1: their technology so that you ultimately get better stuff out

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Speaker 1: of it. If there are no competitors, then you've got

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Speaker 1: to just hope that the entities are motivated enough to

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Speaker 1: continue that innovation and investment, which is not always the case,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't in this one. So October two thousand

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Speaker 1: six we see Microsoft launched Internet Explorers seven because Firefox

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Speaker 1: was starting to eat at Microsoft's heels. It was starting

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Speaker 1: to take up some of that market share, and Microsoft

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Speaker 1: suddenly realized, hey, we might have a problem here. We

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Speaker 1: might need to to start really looking at innovating in

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Speaker 1: this space again, because we're not the only player in

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Speaker 1: town anymore. So this was a five year, you know,

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Speaker 1: absence of updates, and then we finally get one in

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Speaker 1: two thousand six. Um. So Internet Explore seven was also

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Speaker 1: the first time they changed the name, because the previous

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Speaker 1: editions of Internet Explorer were all called Microsoft Internet Explorer whatever.

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Speaker 1: This time they were called Windows Internet Explorer whatever. So

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Speaker 1: Windows Internet Explorer seven. Uh. Interesting because of the settlement

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Speaker 1: with the United States Department of Justice earlier about how

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Speaker 1: they didn't really want to give the indication that Windows

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Speaker 1: and Internet Explorer were so tightly integrated. But after the

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Speaker 1: settlement of that case, I guess they were. Microsoft was

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Speaker 1: looking at it saying, look, if you if you use

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Speaker 1: the Windows environment, this is the browser you want. I

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Speaker 1: guess that was their marketing push as opposed, and it

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Speaker 1: became the bundle browser for a much maligned piece of software,

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Speaker 1: Windows Vista. We'll be back with more of this classic

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Speaker 1: episode of tech stuff after this quick break. I think

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Speaker 1: Windows visted it more from Macintosh sales than Apple ever did.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't It wasn't great to begin with. It was

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Speaker 1: basically all right by the end, but yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was one of those that did require patches to

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Speaker 1: make it to the point where people gave it that

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Speaker 1: kind of damning praise. Right, well, it was all by

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Speaker 1: the end, it was okay, But when it came out

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Speaker 1: it was not okay. There were a lot of issues.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I remember all the different permissions windows that

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Speaker 1: would pop up whenever you wanted to do anything, and

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Speaker 1: Windows this stuff, and it was almost like Microsoft had

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Speaker 1: overreacted to the problems it had experienced previously with products

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Speaker 1: like Internet Explorer six, where I said, well, we want

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Speaker 1: to make sure that we are being really uh concerned

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Speaker 1: with security and safety. So now you're going to have

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Speaker 1: to go through five permissions pages whenever you want to

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Speaker 1: run anything on your machine, every time you want to

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Speaker 1: run it. So this was maligned, probably justifiably when it

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Speaker 1: first came out, But then, like like we said, it

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Speaker 1: got better with patches, although it was too little, too

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Speaker 1: late at that point, I think. And essentially you had

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Speaker 1: all these different people and companies, school systems, everything saying

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Speaker 1: you know what, We're gonna stick with Windows XP because

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Speaker 1: even though this operating system is the new one, uh,

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Speaker 1: it breaks everything, So I'm going to use this older

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Speaker 1: operating system. Uh. And I can say, like in my career,

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Speaker 1: we went from Windows XP to Windows seven. We did not.

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Speaker 1: We did not transition to Vista. I went Windows XP

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Speaker 1: to Mac. Um not particularly because of Vista, to be honest, Um,

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Speaker 1: but I but but I think that was the turning

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Speaker 1: point for a lot of people. It was either ignore

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Speaker 1: Vista and then moved to seven, or ignore Vista and

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Speaker 1: moved to the Mac. Yeah. I think, you know, and

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Speaker 1: and I think even you know, looking at at some

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Speaker 1: of the other operating systems out there, things like Lenox,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I don't think well, Lennox has

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Speaker 1: its own like uh devotees who are all the developers

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Speaker 1: who who love to work with that operating system and

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Speaker 1: help make it better, and it's almost like a crowdsourced OS. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but they you know, I think things like Vista definitely

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Speaker 1: help fuel that kind of passion because you look at

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Speaker 1: what is the product of a corporation saying here's what

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Speaker 1: we think operating systems should be versus uh something like

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Speaker 1: uh Mac, which you know, Apple has done a great

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Speaker 1: job at positioning themselves as we know that you think

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Speaker 1: you know what you want, but we're telling you what

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Speaker 1: you want and you're gonna love it and it works

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Speaker 1: because it's designed so well. Uh and then you have

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Speaker 1: the Linux approach, whereas we know what we want because

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Speaker 1: we're the ones making it. Yes, well there is that

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Speaker 1: as well, and and and Linux is so infinitely flexible

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Speaker 1: from the you know, if you want to build your

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Speaker 1: own operating system. You know t version of Linux once

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Speaker 1: that was designed in the style of an anime series

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Speaker 1: called Serial Experiments Lane, which is very weird techie anime

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Speaker 1: if you want to check that out. But I wanted

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Speaker 1: to point something out that we actually didn't discuss and

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Speaker 1: put in show notes here, but it just occurred to

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Speaker 1: me as we've been talking that there was a there

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Speaker 1: was a a parallel change in computer usage at this

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Speaker 1: point in the Internet Explorer, a lifestyle, which was the

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Speaker 1: introduction and introduction and success of the netbook that did

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Speaker 1: the opposite of what Microsoft would have wanted with Vista,

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Speaker 1: which required um, you know, more of a high powered,

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Speaker 1: high spect machine. It was much visually it was much

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Speaker 1: more visually rich. Vista was that is versus XP. And

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Speaker 1: then the netbook came out and became this giant pre

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Speaker 1: iPad pre tablet craze of hundred dollar little portable notebooks

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Speaker 1: that needed to run really low power old stuff. So

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Speaker 1: they ran XP and they ran I six or they

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Speaker 1: run Linux. Of course, Um, you know, and I think

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Speaker 1: that that that was such a popular choice of machine

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Speaker 1: for admittually only maybe a couple of years, but I

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Speaker 1: think it may have made a difference at the whole

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Speaker 1: XP thing. And definitely once two thousand seven rolls around,

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Speaker 1: you had Apple introduced the iPhone, and that really changed

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Speaker 1: the game because suddenly you had well, at least here

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Speaker 1: in the United States, I mean here in the US.

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Speaker 1: This is where Nate can can kind of chuckle, because

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Speaker 1: in the US the smartphone was adopted very late on

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Speaker 1: the consumer side, whereas you know and your up you

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Speaker 1: had some some smartphones that had traction before the iPhone

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Speaker 1: came out. Here in the US, the iPhone might as

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Speaker 1: well have been the first smartphone ever. The only people

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Speaker 1: who had any other type of smartphone were executives who

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Speaker 1: had blackberries here in the US. That was very kind

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Speaker 1: of you. It was very kind of you to to

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Speaker 1: suggest that we were far ahead of the game. I

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Speaker 1: think really that the sort of we're in the realms

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Speaker 1: of these sort of Nokia communicate the sort of thing,

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Speaker 1: and um, they weren't they weren't particularly smart, but they

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Speaker 1: were more feature rich definitely than in some of the

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Speaker 1: U S phones because because no kid didn't do anything

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Speaker 1: really in North America at the time, right, yeah, here,

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Speaker 1: if you had a phone that could browse the web

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Speaker 1: via text like it was just a text based browser,

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Speaker 1: then you were ahead of the game. Then. But then

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Speaker 1: the iPhone comes out and uh, suddenly you have a

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Speaker 1: new way of viewing the web, which would get improved

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Speaker 1: considerably with future generations of the iPhone, and then with

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Speaker 1: competitors like the Android phone, and ultimately with Windows Mobile,

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Speaker 1: Windows Phone and then just Windows for mobile devices. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you know that really change the game big time,

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Speaker 1: to the point where now if you look at market

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Speaker 1: share of what's being used to browse the web, the

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Speaker 1: mobile devices are killing it. And so you see things

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Speaker 1: like iOS is a huge player in market share for

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Speaker 1: web browsers if you're if you include mobile devices, if

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Speaker 1: you look at just desktops, then Internet Explorer is still

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Speaker 1: a large a large player, especially once you factor in

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Speaker 1: all the different versions of Internet Explorer. They're still in use.

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Speaker 1: But two thousand seven ends up being a big year

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Speaker 1: because we start seeing mobile become a true competitor or

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Speaker 1: at least a a potential competitor in the web browsing space.

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Speaker 1: March two thousand nine would be when Microsoft launched Internet

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Speaker 1: Explorer eight, which was the first browser to pass the

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Speaker 1: ACID two test. Did not asked the ACID three tests,

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Speaker 1: but it passed the ACID to test, which was that's

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Speaker 1: a test designed to check a browser's ability to render

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Speaker 1: a web page based upon the intended design of that page.

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Speaker 1: This goes back to what I was saying before, where

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Speaker 1: you just painstakingly create a web page and you can't

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Speaker 1: wait for someone to see it. I mean by by

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Speaker 1: can't wait, I mean if you if you could go

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Speaker 1: back and visit the web pages of the mid nineties,

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Speaker 1: I guarantee you that more than eighty percent of them

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Speaker 1: would have a counter somewhere on that web page that

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Speaker 1: would tell you what number you were to visit that

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Speaker 1: web page. Uh. Those were ubiquitous back in the day.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember those where you'll be like, oh, look,

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Speaker 1: I I was the hundred and third thousandth person to

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Speaker 1: visit this website. I remember installing one of mine and

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Speaker 1: just thinking like, why do I do this? I can

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Speaker 1: like it's been three months and I can still count

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Speaker 1: the number of people who have visited my website on

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Speaker 1: two hands. But you know that was one of those

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Speaker 1: things where again, you know, you put this care into

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Speaker 1: it and you really wanted to make sure that all

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Speaker 1: the browsers were going to render it properly. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: it was very important for Microsoft at the time because

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Speaker 1: they were no longer like no one version of Internet

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Speaker 1: Explorer was now the dominant one because Firefox had done

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Speaker 1: so well. So if you're the dominant player, then sure

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Speaker 1: you could essentially define how web pages should look. Your

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Speaker 1: browser is the one that people should be designing for

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Speaker 1: because you're the one that most people are using, and

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Speaker 1: anyone who's using a different web browser is going to

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Speaker 1: have a potentially, at any rate, a less than ideal experience.

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Speaker 1: But who cares because you're the one who's the biggest

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Speaker 1: player in town. When you're no longer the biggest player

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Speaker 1: in town or there are viable competitors out there, you

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Speaker 1: have to start rethinking that strategy. So Microsoft did a

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Speaker 1: good thing here and building a web browser that was

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Speaker 1: going to be more true to the designs of the

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Speaker 1: web page administrators than what they had previously been doing,

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Speaker 1: and also benefited those of us who actually used Firefox

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Speaker 1: or some other browser at that time, so that was

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Speaker 1: that was good, go ahead. It's an interesting period because

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Speaker 1: all this time or this discussion, Opera was chugging along

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Speaker 1: in the background doing its thing. And just as we've

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Speaker 1: been talking, I just download and installed up on my

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Speaker 1: map because I just wanted to see what it looks

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Speaker 1: like these days. It's based on chromium UM, like like

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Speaker 1: Google chromes. And you know, Opera has always been this underdog.

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Speaker 1: It's just never done very well at market share wise,

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Speaker 1: but it's always had this incredibly loyal fan base and

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Speaker 1: does really innovative things on the mobile side and always has.

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Speaker 1: And I remember and about two thousand and seven I

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Speaker 1: wrote an article for s net saying Opera should stop

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Speaker 1: making desktop browsers and just focus on mobile as its future.

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Speaker 1: And I had one person who said that I should

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Speaker 1: throw myself off the top of the s NET building

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Speaker 1: for saying something so heinous against the beloved right. And

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Speaker 1: I still, you know, nearly ten years on, I stunned

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Speaker 1: by that they should focus on mobile UM And I

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Speaker 1: hope that person revisits my article UM from and says, oh, yes,

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00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: you were right. Well, you know, it's very forward thinking

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Speaker 1: because as it turns out, you know, mobile browsing has

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Speaker 1: become so important now that that's where everybody is looking.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, not the desktop browsing has gone away,

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Speaker 1: or that there aren't other platforms. I mean, heck, I

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Speaker 1: sometimes I browse the web very rarely, but sometimes I

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Speaker 1: browse the web on my Xbox so that I can

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Speaker 1: watch certain content that I couldn't otherwise, or that I, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, might want to have a podcast on in

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Speaker 1: the background and that's the easiest way for me to

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Speaker 1: play it. Um So, But the mobile certainly is is

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Speaker 1: at least as important, if not more important, than desktop

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Speaker 1: browsing is these days. So everyone really needed to be

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Speaker 1: looking at mobile. I think you were really just giving

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Speaker 1: some valuable advice, honestly. I mean I really I was

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Speaker 1: trolling for page views mostly, but but it was based

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Speaker 1: on it was based on real opinion and a fact.

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Speaker 1: I believe. You know, we we've all engaged in some

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Speaker 1: clickbait at some point or another. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: we've got more to say in this classic episode of

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Speaker 1: tech stuff after these quick messages. So the Internet Explorer

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Speaker 1: eight is currently the second most popular version of Internet

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Speaker 1: Explorer as far as market share, goes. Keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: we're up to eleven now, and in fact, in an

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Speaker 1: Internet Explorer eleven is the current most popular version of

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Speaker 1: i E on the market. I E eight is second,

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Speaker 1: So that means nine and ten didn't do quite so well. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And perhaps I'm not saying this is necessarily the case,

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Speaker 1: but perhaps it's one of the reasons that it has

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Speaker 1: done so well for so long is that is the

432
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: last version of Internet Explorer that's capable of running on

433
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: a Windows XP machine. So it may be that we

434
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: have still a significant number of folks out there who

435
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: are running the Windows XP operating system. They never upgraded

436
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: to Vista or seven or eight or ten now, uh,

437
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: and they're they're staying with Windows XP for one reason

438
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: or another, and they might be running Internet Explorer eight.

439
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: That's a guess, but I think it's a fair one. Yeah.

440
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: I mean, in the mobile world, it's I'm sure a

441
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: lot of people listening have had the experience of downloading

442
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: an app and then downloading an update. A week later,

443
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: firing up the app and being told that your OS

444
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: is out of date and you need to update, and

445
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: that's because Apple or or Android or something has been

446
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: up has a has released an update in the time

447
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: between you downloading the app and firing up the app,

448
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: and you've updated the app in that time without firing

449
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: it up or updating your OS, and it's already out

450
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: of date. Like it's crazy. Personally, I haven't had that issue,

451
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: but that's because I use the Next of six, so

452
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: I get those updates like immediately. But then although iPhone

453
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: users out there like, yeah, that's regular, I'll breaking procedure

454
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: for me, Yeah, I have an Next to six as well.

455
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: To be fair, I do. Yeah, that's so sort of

456
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: my Android sort of test phone thing because I I

457
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: used that for your main phone has to be an

458
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: iPhone night, I imagine. Yeah, alright, how do you like

459
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: the Next of six? I know this is a tangent,

460
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 1: but I have to ask. Um. I love it. I

461
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: really like it. Um. I use the iPhone six Plus

462
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: is my main phone, so the next is six just

463
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 1: feels like an evolution of that. UM feel wise and

464
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: the screens, the screens nice, The battery life for me

465
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: has been pretty good, and the I don't know. I

466
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: just like it, but I don't use it that much,

467
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: to be honest. It was it's just like a like

468
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: a sort of a dunny review unit type thing that's

469
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: been hanging around, right. I just wish it were a

470
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: little bit larger, so that way, if I held it

471
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: over my head on a sunny day, I could shade

472
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: my entire body. It is a big phone. It isn't

473
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: become But like I said, I don't use it that much.

474
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: It's it's mostly that for me to test Android and

475
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: if I need, if I want to review or right

476
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: about new apps, it's just there. Um, yeah, it's fine, Yeah,

477
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: I understand. Well, getting back to Internet Explorer, this is

478
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 1: where we're starting to talk about some of the boring

479
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:31,959
Speaker 1: ones for me. So I guess that's why I'm so

480
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: eager to go off on tangents. But March four, Internet

481
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: explored nine debuts and it had the tagline the Beauty

482
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: of the Web, So finally we could experience that. I

483
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: was it was good that by two thousand eleven we

484
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: could finally see the beauty of the web after all

485
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: that text and the red exes for images that wouldn't load. Um,

486
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: this one wasn't tied to the premiere of any new

487
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: operating system, which might be one of the reasons why

488
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: it's not as popular as I E eight or I

489
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: E eleven because it was not it wasn't bundled with

490
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: an operating system UM, so it could run on Windows

491
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: Vista Service Pack two or later versions of the Windows

492
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: operating system. There was no support for Windows XP. Like

493
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: we said, I E eight was the last Internet Explorer

494
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: to run on that platform. And you could do things

495
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: like you could pen websites to the application bar, which

496
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: would allow you to navigate straight to those right away.

497
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: So if there were sites that you always go to,

498
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: you know, you just you know there, there's always there's

499
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: three that I always opened up first thing in the day,

500
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: as soon as I load up my browser, then it

501
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: would makes sense to pen those first three just to

502
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: be able to click on whichever ones or even pin

503
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: them together. You could do that as well, where you

504
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: could open up multiple tabs and just associate the ones

505
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: that you always go to first thing. That way, you

506
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,239
Speaker 1: don't have to spend those precious that calories typing in

507
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: the first few letters of whatever you are l you

508
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: go to each time. UM but a very innovative approach

509
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: at the time. And UH. It also had a download

510
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: manager that would allow users to pause downloads and alert

511
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: users to potentially malicious files. Very important as far security

512
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: is concerned. Something that is pretty much standardized throughout all

513
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: browsers now, but was brand new back in at least

514
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: for Internet Explorer anyway, and it includes support for HTML

515
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: five for audio and video tags. So we started to

516
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: see that that migration, which is still happening from four

517
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: to five UM. So you know, it was important. It

518
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,719
Speaker 1: just didn't make a huge impact. Ah. In fact, I

519
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: can't even I don't think I've ever used E E nine.

520
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: I don't think I ever got to a point where

521
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: I used that. I yeah, I don't know. I think

522
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: I think I will have done because I was I

523
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: was all Mac at that point. My machine I was

524
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: at Wired at the time, My all my my machines

525
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: at wide would MAX as well. But I did always

526
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: have UM either a Parallels installation of Windows so I

527
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: could do my browser test because I always did the

528
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: browser reviews UM for seen it in the UK, and

529
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: then Wired as well after that, so I always sort

530
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: of kept I kept them installed, so I must have

531
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: used it at some point, but certainly I E seven

532
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: was the last one that I could honestly say I

533
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: really remember using. Possibly I E eighty. That so no, no,

534
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: no lasting impression here. Um. Yeah, I imagine that people

535
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: with MAX would yeah, I run boot camp, so I

536
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: could run I e nine. That would really shock me.

537
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: I would not be I would be a well why

538
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: please tell me what what's the I can tell you

539
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: why you might want to do that. Max or some

540
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: of the particularly quite a while was some of the

541
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: best Windows machines you could buy. That's like, buy a

542
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: MacBook Air and put Windows on It is a better

543
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: experience for most Windows is who didn't want to use

544
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: a map, or rather who didn't want to use those

545
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: turn right? Well did you? Uh? Do you? Do? You

546
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: find it amusing when PC users try to go the

547
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: other way and create hackintosh is. It seems like a

548
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: bit of a waste of time. But I suspect that

549
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: there are people that are probably doing it more for

550
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: the joy of making it work than the fact that

551
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: it's productive for them to do so. Once they've done it,

552
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But I also say I

553
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: and I am a Windows user. I mean my gaming

554
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: machine is a Windows PC. It's a big fat gaming

555
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: rig with a twenty one nine ultra y curved monitor

556
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: that's all Windows. But but it literally loads Steam and

557
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: most realistically, it really loads Elder Scrolls Online as soon

558
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: as I turn it on, like nothing else. I was

559
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: gonna say, like, with that huge screen, it's got to

560
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: be papers. Please, you're just playing papers please? Yeah, No,

561
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: it's my immersive Elder Scrolls experience. Well that's that's good now,

562
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: I know. I know what MMO. I could run into

563
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: you if I ever, if I ever dive into that world.

564
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: Oh please, do you are well? You would make a

565
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: fantastic Nord. I'm still playing. Actually, I'm still playing Skyrim again.

566
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: I mean I keep playing it through. I don't know

567
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: why I've played. I finally actually finished the game. For

568
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: the longest time, I was not finishing the game. I

569
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: was just doing all the side quests. So maybe I

570
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: need to Maybe I finally need to say goodbye to

571
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: Skyrim and jump on. We should take this conversation offline,

572
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: because I definitely want to persuade you to get into

573
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: eldest Rolls online. But we'll we'll save eldest Rolls for

574
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: a future tech stuff, perhaps because that in itself has

575
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: a rich history as a franchise. We'll revisit. Yeah. I

576
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: actually I remember getting to play the early build of

577
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: that at a c E three several years ago. But okay,

578
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: we'll say that for the next one. Let's let's let's

579
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: power on through the end of Internet Explorer. April twelve,

580
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: two eleven, that's when Microsoft announces Internet Explorer ten. It

581
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: was less than a month from releasing Internet Explorer nine,

582
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: so they released nine, and less than a month later

583
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: they say, hey, Internet Explored tennis coming, which seems like

584
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: a weird choice, especially when Internet Explorer nine wasn't being

585
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: bundled with an operating system. So I don't know why

586
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: they expected people to migrate to nine if they announced, hey,

587
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: something even better is coming really soon. That that to

588
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: me is a very odd decision. Um. I honestly don't

589
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: understand the motivation behind that, unless they probably for like

590
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 1: accounting purposes more than anything else, to show the return

591
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 1: on investment. Maybe I mean that since Internet Explorer wasn't

592
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: like a product that you would go out and purchase,

593
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: maybe they just didn't care. It's kind of hard to say. Uh.

594
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: They showed a demo of an early build of I

595
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: E ten at the MIX eleven conference in Las Vegas,

596
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: d M i x UH conference in Vegas, I've never

597
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: been to that one. That's one of the few that

598
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 1: I have not attended. UH. It was September two thousand eleven.

599
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: They showed a Meveloper preview of Windows eight UM that

600
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 1: ended up becoming available to the general public. So if

601
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: you wanted to get your hands on an early build

602
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: of Windows eight and then be one of the many

603
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: people who complained about the metro UH layout, you could

604
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: have done that. Then I was one of those people. Yeah.

605
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: We we actually just had a machine here at how

606
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: Stuff Works that was the Windows eight machine, and it

607
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: was a Windows eight machine that did not have a

608
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: well no one, no one was using it. Well, first

609
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: of all, there wasn't a whole lot of software we

610
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: could use with it, and secondly, we didn't have a

611
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: touch sensitive screen. So you were using this interface that

612
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: was clearly designed after the UI you would see in

613
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: a tablet, but transmitted transferred rather to a desktop experience.

614
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 1: But if you didn't have a touch screen monitor and

615
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: you were navigating it through your basic keyboard and mouse,

616
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: it was not a very satisfying experience, at least not

617
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: for me. I could easily see why it would be

618
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: very attractive if you were using a touch screen device,

619
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: although I'm not big on touch screen monitors because I

620
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: don't like having big, old, greasy fingerprints all over my

621
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: monitor all the time. Um. I prefer my desktop to

622
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: be still keyboard and mouse until something better comes along.

623
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: What about you, Do you use touch screen monitors? Noo? Yeah, here,

624
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: I don't see. I don't see. I don't see a

625
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: benefit to that, at least not in the current hardware

626
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: iterations that are out there. Yeah, I don't. I don't

627
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: like the idea of having to reach across and touch

628
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: the screen anyway. I'm also lazy, so anything that smacks

629
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: of effort I would like to edge away from unless

630
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: it was absolutely necessary. I e. Ten would end up

631
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: being bundled with Windows eight and Window Windows Server in

632
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: the fall of and it had two modes. It had

633
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: the Metro mode, so if you launched it in the

634
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: Metro they no longer call it Metro, but at the

635
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: time that's what we all referred to it as. If

636
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 1: you launched it when it was in the Metro layout,

637
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: which was that tiled layout of Windows eight, it had

638
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 1: a limited limited features, and it also ended up eliminating

639
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:16,439
Speaker 1: UH pretty much the entire user interface was eliminated from

640
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: casual glance. You would have to swipe from the bottom

641
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: of the top in order to pull things up, But

642
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 1: otherwise it was meant to give the website the entirety

643
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 1: of your screens landscape. I can appreciate that on one level.

644
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 1: I liked the idea of slimming down your your frames

645
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: so that you're giving the website as much attention and

646
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: as much of the focus of the user as possible.

647
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I want to be able

648
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: to easily navigate to other sites if I need to,

649
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: so I'm not crazy about completely hiding it away. Ah.

650
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 1: I think that might have been a bit much. If

651
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: you launched it in the desktop version of Internet Explorer,

652
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: it was a little more like the earlier versions. It

653
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: had more of the capabilities built into it. Um I think.

654
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: I think Windows eight was really Microsoft's approach to trying

655
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: to make the operating system as accessible to as broad

656
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: range of people as possible, and I'm not sure clearly

657
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: they weren't entirely successful. They The rapid development of Windows

658
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: ten kind of points to that, and also just the

659
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: upgrade to Windows eight point one, which ended up kind

660
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: of reversing Microsoft decisions on a lot of their original points.

661
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: But Microsoft tends to do this. It sort of take

662
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: the talks between between big success and at least the

663
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: perception of complete disaster, which is Windows uh, you know,

664
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: Windows XP great success for our style, Windows Vista disappointment,

665
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: Windows seven great success, Windows eight bits of disappointment. So

666
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: I sort of feel that they are due a great

667
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: success on the next on the next one, I think so, uh,

668
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: and I guess they'll go out on a high point

669
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: because it's the last one. Uh. You know. It's also

670
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: interesting because this to me parallels a similar thing that

671
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: happened with with Microsoft with the the announcement of Xbox one.

672
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: I remember you and I had a conversation about which

673
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 1: console we thought one E three that year when when

674
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: the PlayStation four and the Xbox one we're both announced. Yes,

675
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: I remember actually eating a very messy hot dog with

676
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: you while we had that conversation, and then we we

677
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: talked about how Microsoft made all these uh at the time,

678
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: they sounded very bold and sometimes slightly dangerous, you know,

679
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: as far as they're there the the way people would

680
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: view the Xbox One. They made these these announcements that

681
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 1: ultimately I think would have benefited them had they stuck

682
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: with them. But they listened to the initial reaction that

683
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: gamers had and they reversed some of their initial sholl

684
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: their initial pronouncements, which ended up negatively impacting certain features

685
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: down the road. And I think it's very similar to

686
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,399
Speaker 1: the way Windows eight and Internet Explorer ten the same

687
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: sort of situations, they went through the same kind of cycles.

688
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: They went through this like we're gonna we're really trying

689
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: to push innovation. The problem was they were pushing the

690
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: innovation in a direction that the the public just didn't

691
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: get behind. And you know, I think this is really

692
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: it's it is a problem born out of the business model.

693
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: And it's not to blame Microsoft at all. This is

694
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: just the way business is. But they needed to They

695
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: need to give people a reason to go through what

696
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: is a particularly in the corporate world, a massive, dramatic

697
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 1: and expensive and disruptive decision to move operating systems through upgrade.

698
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: So they have to change something significantly, which is why

699
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: it seems to go from great too bad, too great,

700
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: too bad to potentially next great again, because basically what

701
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: they then change is they go back to what people

702
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: wanted in the first place. You know it's a it's

703
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: the problem with if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

704
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: But if it ain't broke, but you need to make

705
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: more money because that's what your business relies on, then

706
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,479
Speaker 1: maybe you don't fix it, just try and do something

707
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: to it and then fix that, right right, Yeah, I

708
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 1: mean that's that's a that's a great point, and I

709
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: think it has to be endlessly frustrating to Microsoft executives

710
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: to really push for big, big change is big risks

711
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: and innovation and seeing it fall flat. And then watch

712
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: Apple where it seems like Apple is able to make

713
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: that kind of declaration and uh and do really well

714
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: with it. Now that being said, there are clearly examples

715
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: in Apple's past where updates to certain operating systems or

716
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: software packages have been met with lots of criticism. Uh,

717
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: there're certain OS updates that people absolutely despised in the

718
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,919
Speaker 1: in the process of the evolution of mac os. There's

719
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: also I mean, anyone here at how stuff works who

720
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: works in video could go on and on about changes

721
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 1: to certain video editing suites. I love that change is brilliant.

722
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: I ditched Premier to move to final cut when they

723
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 1: change that. Really, everyone here with the other way. That's

724
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: because they were probably doing it for for a living,

725
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: whereas I do it semi professionally, So for me it

726
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: actually sped up a lot of stuff, particularly things like

727
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: multi cam. I wasn't doing anything professionally professionally with it,

728
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: like it wasn't my sole job. But but but on

729
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: the other hand, the big differences that Microsoft now does

730
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: these big, giant, huge overhauls and pushes it as the

731
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: next big thing and like the latest innovation and leap

732
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: in personal and professional computing. Apple makes a big deal

733
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 1: about its os is, but they're actually incremental. They'm all

734
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 1: like service packs now and they are free. An Apple

735
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: will trump you know, this new innovative feature and that

736
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: new innovative feature, and yeah they are convenient, but you know,

737
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: would you pay for it? Really? I mean people did,

738
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: but it never really felt like a big deal to Apple.

739
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: It more felt like just because they were making boxes

740
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 1: and putting them on shells and shipping them around the world,

741
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 1: they should probably charge something for them. But once it's

742
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: all software and download based, it's just like me have it.

743
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,280
Speaker 1: So they're like completely different. It's they're not chicken and eggs,

744
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,479
Speaker 1: not chicken egg Sorry, they're not chalking cheese. Now, they're

745
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: just we're not comparing apples to apples by comparing os

746
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: tend to windows updates wise. Was that chalk and cheese

747
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: that I read? Yeah, that's it's water past eleven at night.

748
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: I've been up there like eighteen hours at this point.

749
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: I'm fried. I'm just curious if that's if that's a

750
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: common saying, or if that's just a yeah, okay, all right, Yeah,

751
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: that's really common. Yeah, they're like chalk and cheese. They

752
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: don't go together. I'll take your word for it. I've

753
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: never heard that phrase. But I'm I'm a clause. You know,

754
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: I've been very you know, sheltered my entire life, So

755
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 1: it's quite possible it just hasn't made its way to

756
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: the Deep South yet. Stay tuned for the exciting conclusion

757
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 1: of this tex Stuff Classic episode right after we take

758
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: this break. Alright, so we're in the home stretch. October

759
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: sevent Microsoft releases the final version of Internet Explorer Internet

760
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: Explorer eleven, which had a lot of performance improvements. It

761
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: actually went when it came out. There were a lot

762
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: of reviewers who put it through various speed tests and

763
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: said this was competitive against all the other browsers that

764
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: were current at that time, faster than a lot of them,

765
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: that it had made some incredible improvements and was a

766
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: true contender in the browsers space that if And in fact,

767
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: I remember reading so many reviews that said, hey, if

768
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: you switched the Chrome because you wanted it to load

769
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 1: web pages faster, you don't have that reason anymore because

770
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: Internet Explorer eleven was doing it as fast or faster

771
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: than Chrome could. So it suddenly became clear that Microsoft

772
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:22,240
Speaker 1: had really pushed to to not just have new features,

773
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 1: but to improve the performance so that it wasn't going

774
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: to be viewed as, oh, yeah, it's this thing that

775
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: everyone has because it's bundled with your operating system. It

776
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: was actually a valuable browser that could stand on its

777
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: own against uh, all these other competitors. So it was

778
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: one of those things where you started hearing some real

779
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: positive thing, you know, reviews about Internet Explorer. And yet

780
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: it's also the last Internet Explorer. Uh. Microsoft announced this

781
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: year that it is no longer going to be developing

782
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 1: Internet Explorer. I sort of think that it's a necessary

783
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: it's a necessary change because I think that the name

784
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: I E. Is a lot worse than the product itself.

785
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 1: Internet Explorer is a perfectly good, great, modern, fast browser

786
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,240
Speaker 1: now like it is. It's fine. It's a decent browser.

787
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: And and if I feel that people say who you

788
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: know who say, oh, I use Internet Explorer, most of

789
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 1: us in the tech world kind of go really really,

790
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: But you know what if you if you're using the

791
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: latest I E on Windows eight point one, it's not

792
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: a bad browser you might like. And I mean there's

793
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:41,919
Speaker 1: objectively speaking, not subjectively like objectively it's not a poor browser. Um.

794
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: But the word I E. Just it just brings with

795
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: it this history that you know, people just associate with

796
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: either bad technology or horrible compatibility issues like you had

797
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: with i E eight where you have to build basically

798
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: a version of your website just for warm browser. Um,

799
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: there was a lot of problems and obviously the security

800
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: issues with i E six. It's you know, get rid

801
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 1: of the name. It's a it's a real problem. Is

802
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,720
Speaker 1: why people don't really name their children after murderers, because

803
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: well there's a yeah, yeah, exactly yeah, and and so

804
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: the the next one, and who knows, by the time

805
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: this podcast goes live, maybe they'll have officially announced the name.

806
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: But it's code named Project Spartan, which is built on

807
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: different codes. It's code that if you trace it back,

808
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: you know it has roots that are common to Internet Explorer,

809
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:41,399
Speaker 1: but again it's a different evolutionary path um and it's

810
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: going to uh be the new approach for browsers. There

811
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,720
Speaker 1: will be continued support for Internet Explorer for a while,

812
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: but we're going to see that gradually taper off until

813
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 1: we are left with whatever Project Spartan is named at

814
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 1: the time. I am curious where they came up with

815
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: that name because they have the personal assistant Cortana and Quartana.

816
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: That's a character from the Halo franchise, which Microsoft owns.

817
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 1: Now it's good PR, it's good PR. Yeah, so Halo

818
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: is cool. Xpox is the coolest thing Microsoft's ever done,

819
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: named after the most popular thing. That the most popular

820
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: thing is named after. Yeah, I mean they weren't going

821
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: to call it master Chief, so master Chief. The main

822
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: character in Halo is a Spartan soldier. They the type

823
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 1: of armor he wears is designated as Spartan. So it's

824
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: possible that this is another Halo reference. It could be

825
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: that Spartan is totally is a Halo reference, like it's

826
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: spartan either because it's a very bland, open interface, and

827
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: then possibly but it's not, is it it's it's it's halo.

828
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:53,359
Speaker 1: I still think they should call it Windows grunt Well,

829
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: I guess, I guess they could call it elite. I

830
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: mean that would be that would be something I would

831
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: have possibly an is our connotation than gruntwood. Although honestly,

832
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: depending upon what version of Windows you're running, grunting might

833
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: be your natural reaction to booting up your computer. Um,

834
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: because I remember running older versions of Windows on older

835
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: machines and thinking, all right, I've turned my computer on.

836
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: In about half an hour, I'll be able to do something.

837
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 1: Uh at any rate. That's that's it. That is the

838
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 1: the full blown history of Internet Explorer, from the early

839
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: days before there were even web browsers to the current

840
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: situation where Internet Explorer is is surfing into the sunset.

841
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: I guess since we're talking about the web and we're

842
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: going to get this this new type of browser in

843
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: the future, Uh, it's an interesting story. I mean, you've

844
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: got so much drama there, from the the any trust lawsuits,

845
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 1: the whole dot com bubble, the intense focus on the web,

846
00:49:54,960 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: Microsoft getting a little maybe not lazy, but complacent perhaps

847
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: with its place. I mean, it's it's a You can

848
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 1: also look at this and the development of the you know,

849
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 1: the company Microsoft as well, just what that company was

850
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: going through during that time. We could do a parallel

851
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: timeline and really see how there was a lot going on.

852
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: Oh there really was, and and and the popularity of

853
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: Windows in an Explorer six and by extension, Internet Explorer

854
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: six itself was both the best and the worst thing

855
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: that happened to i E. As a franchise of browsers.

856
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: You know, it's popularity. It accounts for over nine of

857
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,399
Speaker 1: all browser installations at one point around two thousand three,

858
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,799
Speaker 1: I think. And yet that was the one that effectively

859
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: caused the downfall, you know, in terms of actual security issues,

860
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: public perception, um, you know, the the the need for

861
00:50:55,239 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: something to challenge the dominant monopolistic looking i E. You know,

862
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: all that stuff. It caused its own ultimate downfall, and

863
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: the complacency just made that worse. Yeah, without without i E.

864
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 1: Six you don't have necessarily the the incentive for a

865
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: group like the Mozilla Foundation to really push for an

866
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 1: alternative like Firefox. And then Firefox ends up becoming not

867
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: just like first it when it debuts, it's it's definitely

868
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: the underdog, but then very quickly in the grand scheme

869
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: of things, became a true contender. Uh yeah, I mean

870
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: without without the problems of I E. Six, there wouldn't

871
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 1: have been I don't think there would have been a

872
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,919
Speaker 1: drive for the alternatives. Uh. And ultimately, when you look

873
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 1: at the way things have shaken out now, again, like

874
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,320
Speaker 1: we we barely touched the mobile world, but it's also

875
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,399
Speaker 1: what helped drive the development of things like Chromium. Uh.

876
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 1: And then therefore you could also say it helped drive

877
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: things like Android as well as chromos. Uh. You know,

878
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: the world is definitely affected by Internet Explorer. Like we

879
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: we would not have the same experiences that we have

880
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: available to us now were it not for I E.

881
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,359
Speaker 1: Whether it's whether it's from Microsoft or from someone else

882
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,240
Speaker 1: that was trying to compete against them. So I agree.

883
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 1: I mean, broadly speaking, what a successful product, you know,

884
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: and what a great product for you know, for the

885
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 1: last two decades. I mean, you know, I say this

886
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,839
Speaker 1: is a Mac user, but as someone has a deep

887
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 1: amount of respect for Microsoft and and what it does

888
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 1: and what it has done and Internet Explorer has to

889
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: go down as one of the most popular, if not

890
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: the most commendable piece of software ever made. You know,

891
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 1: and I know that's a controversial statement, but but I

892
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 1: think even the you know what I'm getting at that

893
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 1: it's it has itself done so much for what the

894
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: modern web is, even if it was by being too

895
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,040
Speaker 1: popular or too bad at one point, it has and

896
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 1: a driver of change for the modern Internet. Hey god,

897
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I feel pretty safe in saying

898
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: that if Internet Explorer had not been If it hadn't

899
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,760
Speaker 1: been for Internet Explorer, for one thing, more people would

900
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,919
Speaker 1: never have been introduced to the Worldwide Web because since

901
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 1: it was bundled with the operating system, it took that

902
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: barrier to entry and throw it out the door right.

903
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,879
Speaker 1: It made it It became something that your computer could

904
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: do as soon as you got it plugged up and

905
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: connected to the Internet. There's still a bit of a

906
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 1: barrier because you still had to get connected, but once

907
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: you got past that, it was already ready to go.

908
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 1: And so there was that it helped remove that barrier

909
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: to entry. And because of that, because it had this

910
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: uh enabling factor that drove more people to the Web.

911
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: It allowed for the creation of things like websites like

912
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot Com, which means that I ultimately

913
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 1: was able to land my dream job. So like, I

914
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: don't know that things have unfolded the same way had

915
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: Microsoft not gotten into this. I'm sure. I mean, it's undoubted,

916
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: there's it's impossible to say, but I mean, I'm pretty

917
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: sure that there's no way the World Wide Web wouldn't

918
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: still be an incredibly influential uh part of our lives.

919
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 1: But whether it would be to the same extent that

920
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: it is now without Internet Explorer, I don't know. Um.

921
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: I mean, something that powerful and useful and uh and

922
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: and ultimately profitable uh could not remain obscure forever, but

923
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 1: it certainly could have taken longer without Internet Explorer for

924
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: it to to get the traction that it got. So well,

925
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:47,359
Speaker 1: here's to the next years. Yeah, who knows, who knows?

926
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 1: What you know? Maybe maybe we'll both be using a

927
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 1: Microsoft machine and at that time and Mac will be

928
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 1: a distant memory, and my my Chrome U my Chrome

929
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:01,439
Speaker 1: browser will be seen as as antiquated and cute. Yes,

930
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: I doubt it, but we'll see. I'll be just I'll

931
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: be passing through a midlife crisis and planning a sixtieth birthday. Yeah,

932
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 1: I'll be. I'll be through my midlife crisis and well

933
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 1: into my decline. All right. So Nate Lank said, thank

934
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 1: you so much for joining me for these episodes. It

935
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: has been a pleasure having you on the show. I

936
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: greatly appreciate you taking the time and as as people

937
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,400
Speaker 1: have heard and maybe you maybe you didn't notice, but

938
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: Nate has stayed up passed as bedtime to be on

939
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: my show. So I appreciate that. Now it's much if

940
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,320
Speaker 1: I if I can stay up for two epic podcast episodes,

941
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: time to talk about the history of a piece of software.

942
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 1: I mean that is that is nerd tactic in my book,

943
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: and it's I'm just about to relaunch an entire publication

944
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 1: in Europe. And I am well past my bedtime definitely,

945
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: and but but it's been a lot of fun and

946
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,760
Speaker 1: kept me kept me awake despite what I probably should

947
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 1: have been. Well, well, Nate, I'm going to take that

948
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: as a positive and uh, I hope I can have

949
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,359
Speaker 1: you on the show again in the future. I would

950
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: love to have you back on and chatting about some

951
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 1: some other great tech topics. Nate is incredibly well versed

952
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 1: in tons of technology. Uh. He very graciously agreed to

953
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 1: be on this episode next time, I promise I will

954
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 1: give him the full list of choices and just open

955
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,839
Speaker 1: up the option so he can pick whatever he wants to. UH,

956
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:35,399
Speaker 1: because it was I was playing unfairly this time. And

957
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,720
Speaker 1: that wraps up the story of Internet Explorer, at least

958
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 1: as far as it went there. Obviously, we could talk

959
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 1: a lot more about Internet Explorer today and the emergence

960
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: of Edge as well, and UH probably will do that

961
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: at some point. Maybe I'll even get Nate back on

962
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,280
Speaker 1: the show. If you have suggestions for topics I should

963
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 1: cover in future episodes of tech Stuff, please reach out

964
00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: to me. You can do so on Twitter. The handle

965
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 1: for the show is tech Stuff H s W and

966
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you again really soon. Y. Tech Stuff

967
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 1: is an I Heart Radio production. For more podcasts from

968
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

969
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.