WEBVTT - The Many Faces of George 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.240 themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.400 He just walked around shot all the black people. The 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.440 cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.160 out how to go on and how to compete. I 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.840 wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.640 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.720 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.800 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.200 it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.560 a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.040 to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.239 Baron bat On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.080 this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.560 I would call him and I would say, I know 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.520 you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.680 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.120 your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years have been on 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.800 the road playing shows and seeing America through live music 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.320 this summer, I'll hit the stage who Season two of 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:20.960 Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday. 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:23.600 We explore the live music venues and culture of a 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.920 new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:28.440 into the kind of venues you want to get to 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:33.120 when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver or Seattle. Listen 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:35.679 to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:41.000 podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hart, I'm Freedom 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.080 and I'm Rthie. We have spent the last twenty years 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.920 building and working at some of the largest companies in 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.480 the world. We worked with some remarkable people. Rob mcalinney. 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:52.520 When I see the people of Wrexham, I grew up 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:55.360 exactly like them. Check out the Art and Trurom show. 0:01:55.680 --> 0:02:00.720 That is a R d Hi and sr Hi r 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:04.600 AM show. Listen to the Arc instry On show on 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:08.239 the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or whenever you get to 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:14.000 your podcast and can you tell us first of all 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:18.080 if you noticed anything about George during that time. He 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:22.079 wasn't the same George that I knew. There are Facebook 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:26.760 messages between her and Hannah may rodin days before Hannah 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:30.280 May was murdered, in which they talked about this issue 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:33.520 of custody and how the Wagners wanted Hannah May to 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:37.959 sign over custody of her daughter. He was a lifelong 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.920 friend of Billy Wagner. He cooperated with the BCI and 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.040 he actually warned that Chris Senor that if you have 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.160 trouble with them, they will harm you or kill you. 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.720 If George would have just let me go outside to 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.200 cool off with it, then we would probably still be married. 0:02:55.560 --> 0:03:01.200 All I wanted was five minutes to cry outside alone. 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.920 This is the Piked and Masaker returned to Pike County 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:13.799 season four, episode eleven, The Many Faces of George. I'm 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.240 Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KATI Studios, along with 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:21.560 Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. It's important to note that 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.760 George Wagner the Fourth, along with his father Billy Wagner, 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:28.400 whose child is upcoming, deny any wrongdoing and have pleaded 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:32.000 not guilty to all charges. We're picking up where we 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:37.680 left off last episode with Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa examining Tabitha Clayton, 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:43.000 George Wagner the Fourth's ex wife, on the stand. Can 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:47.160 you tell us what time of the day this argument 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:50.280 first started, and I don't mean any exact time though. 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.200 Was it the afternoon, was it the evening? It was 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:58.040 near evening, Yeah, it started to get dark, okay. And 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.360 did you have any more contact with them while you 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:07.640 were still there hiding under George's truck? No? Did you 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:12.920 see any of them? They are flashlights? You said they 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:19.880 were flashlights plural, more than one flashlight? Yes? And at 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:24.120 this point where were you? I was still underneath the 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:30.159 George's truck, okay, under the cab basically, okay, okay, in 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:36.400 the front tires. Did they find you? Did they eventually 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.919 give up looking for you? Yes? And what did you 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:44.000 do it? At that point? I got out from underneath 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.360 of the truck and went to the barn and got 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:50.360 my bicycle, and you got on you You got your bicycle, 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:57.000 you said, And what did you do? I left? I 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:02.520 went to the gas station up the road by McDonald's. 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:08.839 And can you tell us at that point was it dark? Yes? Okay, propably, 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:14.560 how far is that to the gas station driving? It's 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:19.840 about five or ten minutes. And can you tell us 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.640 why were you hiding from them? I didn't want to 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:30.720 get shot. And did you make it to the gas station? Yes, okay, 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:37.280 did you encounter anybody along the way? Yes? Tell us 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:43.320 who George and Jake in their red suburban And what 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:47.400 did they say to you? They were trying to get 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:50.440 me to get in the car so we could go home. 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.280 Did you agree to get into the car? What, if 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.720 anything did you say to them? They told him middle 0:05:57.800 --> 0:05:59.560 isn't going to live with film if they're going to 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:05.520 hit me. And what happened then? Or did you tell 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.039 them where you were going? I told him that I 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:09.919 was going to go to the gas station so I 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.400 could call her mom so she can come and get me. 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:22.479 And is that what you did? Yes. Here's legal analyst 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:27.320 Mike Allen, followed by Stephanie and Jeff. This is key 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:31.359 testimony for the prosecution because, unlike so many of the 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:35.720 other witnesses, this really kind of centers on George, and 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.839 she's the prosecutors painting a picture of what kind of 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:44.640 a person George was, and you know, according to her, 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.480 it wasn't a very good person. We've never been able 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.719 to connect with Tabitha personally. We've spoken to her mother, 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:57.280 we've spoken to her sister and hearing her accounts firsthand 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.839 of something that we've we've heard versions of this story 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:02.080 of that night when she had to run out of 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.440 the house, but really hearing it out of her own 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:09.640 mouth was something really powerful. He's living in an event 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:14.440 that is nothing more and nothing less than traumatic. Picturing 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.480 her even just biking away in the night, trying to 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:19.840 escape and then the boys pulling up in that car 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.440 telling her to get in. You know how tap she 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:27.120 must have felt. After the incident that Tabitha described on 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.120 the stand, the Waggoners ended up filing a domestic violence 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:33.920 claim against her, claiming that she dragged her baby across 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:38.080 the floor. Now, they later dropped these charges. Tabitha and 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:41.840 George were married, therefore George had automatic rights in the 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:45.280 state of Ohio because they were married, so she literally 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:49.000 had to write her rights away and did whether she 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.360 knew what she was signing or not. It was around 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:55.080 the same time that Tabitha was becoming close with victim 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:58.640 hannahme Rodin, who as we know, was having similar custody 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:05.240 issues with her boyfriend Jake Wagner. Tabitha ran through some 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:08.000 of the Facebook messages she and Hannah had shared at 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.600 the time. She begins by recounting an exchange about being 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:16.680 able to share her son with George Wagner. Hannah Rodin 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:21.400 asked me if I've gotten to see lately. I said, no, 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.320 not yet. Every time my set a day to see him, 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:28.440 George has something to do or somewhere to go. He 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:32.360 tells me he will message me back when he gets home, 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:37.400 but then he never messages me back. Hannah says, oh, 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:42.080 I would be really upset. I would say I'm scared 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.640 to death that they are going to try and take 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.600 I said, all I am, and it kills me. Well, 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:54.840 you know, since y'all was not married, she goes to 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.880 you automatically, and he is the one that gets to 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.480 see her every other weekend or whatever. Hannah says, yeah, 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:06.360 I know, but they could fight that. I said, yeah, 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.400 but they judge ain't gonna take her away from you. 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:12.160 You have a good home and people to help take 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:16.200 care of her. She says, I know. I'm trying to 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:18.720 get me a place as soon as possible in a job. 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:22.600 I said, I mean, if George would have just let 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:25.240 me go outside to cool off of it, then we 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.720 would probably still be married. All I wanted was five 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:32.960 minutes to cry outside alone. Then there was an incident 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:36.680 in twenty sixteen, right before the murders, during a visit 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:40.079 with her son at the Wagner's, Tabitha's newborn daughter was 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:46.400 seemingly poisoned. Was there another time that something happened after 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:50.120 you had visited your son at the Wagner residence? Yes? 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:54.920 And can you tell us do you recall when that 0:09:55.120 --> 0:10:00.480 would have been? Was around most day or Easter? And 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:05.080 what year would that have been? Do we call twenty 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:13.320 and sixteen and can you tell us what happened? My 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:17.440 six month little daughter became unresponsive, so we took her 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:22.440 to the emergency room where they did tests and found 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:26.400 the drugs in her system. Tell me, first of all, 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.319 this was a child of horse. Yes, she was six 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:35.200 months old in the time. Yes. And had she been 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:39.080 with you at the Wagon residence that day? Yes? And 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:44.280 tell us what kinds of interactions she had with the 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:47.240 other people in the home. She had stayed on my 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:52.439 hip for a while until Angela had asked to see her, 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.520 and so I gave her to rorists so she could 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.000 see her while I went and use to the restaurant. 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.760 Other than that time period where you win the restroom. 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:04.840 Was your daughter out of your view while you were 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:10.400 at the blackness? And did you make it back home 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.520 before you noticed that about your daughter as far as 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:18.319 her physical condition, yeah, I had made it home, okay. 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.080 And when you say she was unresponsive, what do you 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:26.480 mean by that? She was just laying there staring out 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.360 into space. I went to pick her up and she 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.760 was as limber as a new one. And what did 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:37.400 you do as a result about I had both my 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:40.680 husband and we took it in the emergency room okay, 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.880 and dremmy hall where you went the SMC and you 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:48.640 indicated that they did some tests And do you know 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:52.760 what driveway found in her system? Zan X? Were you 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:59.360 prescribed xanax your husband? No? Do you have any xanax 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.320 in your home at all? You know? And have you 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:07.360 been anywhere else that day? No? And as a result 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:13.439 of that, was there a Children's Service investigation? Yes? Okay? 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:18.560 And did both you and your husband submit to drug tests? 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.920 We did, but they did not do them at the 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:26.680 hospital okay. Did you volunteer to do them at the hospital, yes, 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:32.160 but you didn't take tests later about a week later okay. 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:36.720 And were those negative? Yes? It was all very shocking 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.920 testimony for the prosecution, showing that George might have had 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:43.240 violent tendencies and was also tightly bound to his family, 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:48.559 but the defense mounted a strong cross examination. They began 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:52.280 with Tabitha's affair with her friend Whitney's father Jay, and 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.720 the trust issues are created in her marriage. And who's 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:59.439 Whitney's father? Do you know? Yes? Who is your father? 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:06.000 Cecil Smith? Cecil Smith? And how do you know? How 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:10.080 well do you know Cecil Smith? Very well? Okay? And 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:15.719 Cecil also goes by the name Jay. Is that right? Yes? Okay? 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:21.680 And at some point you had some revelation to tell 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:27.080 George about Jay, right? Yes? What was that? What was 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.120 the reason? Well? Yeah, what was the revelation? What did 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.240 you have to tell him? I had told him that 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:38.679 I cheated on him? Okay? With with Jay? Right? And 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:42.600 in pactas was more than just one occasion, right? Yes? 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:47.320 And how old is Jay? Not twenty five? Thirty years older? 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:53.560 You were about seventeen maybe other time. No. I didn't 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.959 get back with George until I was about eighteen ninety. 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.200 Defense attorney Richard Nash also points out that Tabitha and 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.480 her siblings had been sexually abused by her mother's husband, Dave. 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.760 The defense side of this as a quite reasonable reason 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.040 why the Wagners did not want Tabitha bringing their grandchild 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:19.080 around to family. The perpetrator, the person who victimized you. 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:24.880 That's Day right, Yes, And Day is your mother's husband. 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.760 Was he's dead? Now he's dead? And when did he die? 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:34.440 About five years ago? I think, okay. And your mother 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.560 was aware of the things that Day did to you. Yes, 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.080 And not only did he do these awful things to you, 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:46.040 but he did him to your sisters. Yes. Now, when 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.320 you left the Wagner home, we'll get to this more 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.800 in depth, but that's where you went, was the home 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:57.720 with Day right, Yes, And George did not want his 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.800 little boy living in the same home on his day. 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:05.760 Is that what he told you? Yes, okay, that seems 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:09.200 like a pretty rational thing to not want your child 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:13.760 around the child molester. Right. Yes, you don't fault George 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:18.280 for not wanting his son to be there, right, that 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.760 was a no. Yes, that was a no. I don't 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:27.560 blame him. And your mother was an enabler to these 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:31.280 things that had happened to you and your sisters. Yes. 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.880 The defense also killed Tabitha on her mental health and 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:39.520 whether she was doing enough to tend to him. Now 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:43.280 that I have refreshed her recollection, do you recall telling 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:48.240 David Jenkins you had a perfect life with your husband, yes, 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:53.880 and who you're referring to as George, right, Yes, Okay. 0:15:55.800 --> 0:16:00.640 Now back to George and living with him, He had 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:06.240 various jobs, right, Yes, For a while he worked at 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:10.960 Bennetts and Medford, yes okay, And then for some time 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:14.440 he was hauling cattle right, yes. And when he would 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:18.040 haul cattle he would be gone for like a week 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:22.560 on or a week off. Yes, okay. Now back to 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:28.200 that situation where you had cut your arms? Did you 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:32.760 ever seek any help for that? The only reason I 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.800 done it was because George and Angela won't shut up 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:37.880 the many I learned about getting back on zoloft, even 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:39.360 though I told him the last time I was on 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:44.240 zooloft it didn't end well. Zolo Okay. So you have 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:48.080 been prescribed zoloft, is what you're telling us? Yes? And 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:56.920 for what reason? Or do you prescribed zoloft depression by poland? Right? 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.200 And you have said you would agree with me that 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.840 you've said that you don't like taking medication, right, Not 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:09.560 that one enough, okay, any other medication you didn't like 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:20.239 taking a Ldelino. Then there were the continued claims of 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.280 different ways that George had been abusive, But the defense 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:28.480 took this moment to dissect and try and undercut Tabitha's testimony. 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:36.119 You ask you about that incident when you had left 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:40.560 the Wager home, if I'm not mistaken, Well, first off, 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:44.440 you had discussed that incident with the BCI agents, right 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.320 about me? Leading about me got in my arm about 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:52.040 the incident when you left. You've been questioned about that, 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.920 and you and you told them what happened, right, Yes? 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:58.119 Would you agree with me though, that when you talked 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:01.040 to the BCI agents you with him that you and 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:07.119 George were horse playing, playing around with the belt? Yes, okay, 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.080 and it's Michault. I don't hear that. Well you said, 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:16.400 what now with the belt? Yes, with the belt? But okay, Now, 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.520 you would agree with me that you never told any 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:23.199 BCI agent that there was playing with a belt? Right? What? 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.880 You never mentioned a belt to a BCI agent, right, 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.920 I'm it's part of that night. I'm pretty sure I did. Okay, 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:36.159 all right, But you've always said that it was just 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:41.320 the two of you horse plane or plane around? Right? Yes? 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:45.160 At first it was okay, So maybe I misunderstood your 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.760 testimony on direct examination, but it sounded to me as 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.439 if you were saying that he was like assaulting you 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.679 with a belt. That's not true, right, That's not what 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.600 I said, okay, And I may be wrong, but I'm 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.479 just making sure that I understand you correctly. You weren't 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:05.480 testifying that he was assaulting you with a belt, right, No. 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.280 I did not say he was assaulting me with belt, okay. 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.280 And it was just you guys were playing around right 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:16.560 in the beginning, yes, okay. And then Angela, I guess 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.040 I wanted you guys to stop, yes, because I yelled 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:25.719 at her precious baby. Okay, Um, all right. And you 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:29.919 wanted to leave the house, right, yes, And when you 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.639 went to leave, George had put his arm on the 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:36.399 door so you couldn't leave, yes, okay. Now this was 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:41.359 in November, right, yes, okay. And when you left on 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:45.800 your bicycle it was dark, right, yes, okay. And so 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.240 how much time went by from when you're trying to 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:52.720 leave and when you actually fled on your bicycle it 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:57.280 was dark? I don't know, maybe an hour. No, I'm 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:04.600 not clear about this disagreement you went into You had 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.680 to go into a courtroom in front of a judge 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:12.200 before you could divorce or dissolve your marriage, right yes. 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:15.840 And when you stood in front of that judge, the 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:22.879 judge trained you that you were agreeing to George being 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:27.400 the sole customer, right yes. And the judge also made 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:32.160 sure you understood that all visits would be supervised, right yes. 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.919 And you were asked if you understood that, and you 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:40.400 said yes, yes, okay, And there was nothing in there 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:46.520 about changing these things at a later time, right now, okay. 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:51.480 And so it's fair to say those were your wishes, 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:55.159 right exactly what the judge had made sure you understood. No, 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:58.480 that's not my wishes. George told me that it was 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.080 only temporary, that's what was supposed to have been done. 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:03.920 And whenever I got my own place, in my own job, 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:06.280 then I could have him back and would do the fifty. 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:10.960 I think that if we moved out then we would 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:15.399 probably still be together, because I still love him, I 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:20.000 really do. I always have and always will. But I 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:24.159 couldn't hank having to ask to do something with my 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:29.320 own son. We're going to take a break. We'll be 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:40.720 back in a moment. As the defensive cross examination continued 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:43.760 to pay Tabitha in a more uncertain light, it was 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.320 hard to know exactly what to make of her accusations. 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:51.840 Here's long crime reporter and Jeanette Levy, she has been 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:55.280 through a lot. And also you know the fact that 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:59.800 there are Facebook messages between her and Hannon A. Rudin 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:04.920 days before Hannah May was murdered, in which they talked 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:08.879 about this issue of custody and how the Wagners wanted 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:11.760 Hannah May to sign over custody of her daughter that 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:14.200 she had with Jake. And it was kind of sad 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:17.360 to hear Tabitha say that, literally, she still loves George. 0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:20.040 I mean this was back in twenty sixteen, of course, 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:24.040 but it sounded like she still loved him and if 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:26.600 they had ever been able to move out on their own, 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:29.600 they probably would have still been together. She said she 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:31.919 had told George she wanted them to move out and 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:33.800 to get their own place. She thought it would help 0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:36.080 their relationship. And she said that George said, we're a 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:41.000 farm family. We have to live together here again, Jeff 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:46.240 and Stephanie during cross exam, it really painted a picture 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:49.879 of Tabitha versus the Wagoners, which, as we know at 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:52.160 the time, Tabitha was a young woman in her late 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:55.800 teens early twenties, and the Wagoners were kind of a 0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:58.320 force to be reckoned with. It seems like she kind 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:01.280 of just wanted all of the turmoil end and just 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:05.199 be a mom to her son, and somehow signing this 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:07.919 paperwork and doing what the Wagner's want it seemed like 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:10.159 the path of least resistance to her. I think this 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:12.800 testimony seems relevant to the charges that George Wagner the 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:16.080 fourth is facing, because not only does it paint a 0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:21.400 picture of George as someone who is abusive and cruel, 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:23.439 but also the fact that he really moved in a 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:27.919 unit with his family, which then, as we know, is 0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:30.199 what the prosecution is saying, happened with the planning and 0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:33.000 execution of these murders. And it also speaks to a 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:37.360 bit of a pattern, a pattern in custody. Correct, does 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:40.360 that mean it's a pattern in murder? I'm assuming those 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:45.520 links are still to come. Aside from Tabitha, the jury 0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:48.760 also heard from two other key witnesses, both of whom 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:52.080 opted out of being recorded on the stand. The first 0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:55.080 was Frankie Rowden's ex girlfriend who he shared a child with. 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:59.399 Here's Anteinette with insight into that testimony. I think the 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:05.720 jury seemed really interested in testimony since she had a 0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:09.800 relationship with Frankie Roden, she is the mother of his 0:24:09.880 --> 0:24:14.280 oldest son, and you know, she had some things that 0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:16.720 were interesting that she was able to tuttle the jury. 0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:18.920 You know, she talked about getting a phone call from 0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:23.240 Hannah May in twenty fourteen which sounded terrifying. That she 0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:27.440 said that Angela Wagner ran out of the house and 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:30.720 chased Tabitha out of the house with a shotgun, and 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:33.760 that Jake and George and Hannah all followed, and that 0:24:33.880 --> 0:24:36.560 Jake told her not to leave the house. If she did, 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:41.200 he would chop off her legs. I mean, that's terrifying. 0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:46.399 After a meeting in his chambers, Judge Daring emerged to 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:48.840 tell the jury that the phone call between Hannah and 0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:53.159 Frankie Roden's ex girlfriend was probative evidence only. This is 0:24:53.160 --> 0:24:55.320 to say, it's meant to prove a relevant fact in 0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:57.480 the case, but can not be used to cast a 0:24:57.520 --> 0:25:02.200 shadow over the Wagner's character. The second witness is Jeff Tackett, 0:25:02.320 --> 0:25:05.440 a one time friend of Billy Wagner's. The pair became 0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:08.520 friends when they were just thirteen years old. Jeff worked 0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:11.400 at the Wagner family's Flying w Farms and once went 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:15.560 hunting with the entire Wagner family. According to Tackett, George 0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:18.240 Wagner flew into a rage when his father killed a deer. 0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:22.679 Before he did, George went home early. Tackett testified that 0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:25.439 George was moody and erratic due to the pain pills 0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:29.280 he took. These were pills that Angela allegedly plied him with. 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:32.399 Tackett was also with Billy in the days leading up 0:25:32.400 --> 0:25:35.960 to the murders. After the massacre, Tackett believed Billy had 0:25:36.000 --> 0:25:38.840 something to do with it and started working with the BCI. 0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:42.280 He agreed to wear a wire and inform on the 0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:47.520 Wagner's Mike Allen. He was a lifelong friend of Billy Wagner. 0:25:47.880 --> 0:25:52.040 He cooperated with the PCI, and he actually wore a wire. 0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:56.840 He saw Billy Wagner days before the murder in a 0:25:56.920 --> 0:26:03.680 room filled with weapons, and that is I think very relevant, 0:26:03.720 --> 0:26:08.720 again a peripheral relevance maybe to Georgie's guilt or innocence, 0:26:08.760 --> 0:26:12.520 but in telling the tale and telling the story of 0:26:12.560 --> 0:26:16.600 the Wagner family, it's important. He worked sometimes at the 0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:19.960 Flying w Farm, which was the family farm, because he 0:26:20.040 --> 0:26:23.560 was helping to break some horses. He knew Chris Senior, 0:26:23.640 --> 0:26:28.520 Frankie Hannah May, and Chris Junior and said that he 0:26:28.720 --> 0:26:32.600 warned Chris Senior that if you have trouble with them, 0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:38.120 they will harm you or kill you. Here again, Anjeanette 0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:42.159 Jeff Teckett described the Wagners as being very close, like 0:26:42.240 --> 0:26:45.720 a cult. He's been around the Wagners a lot. He's 0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:49.119 been around Frederica Wagner a lot. He talked about Frederica 0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:52.879 Wagner even gave him a percocet for pain one time 0:26:52.960 --> 0:26:55.840 because he was having an issue, and he said it 0:26:55.880 --> 0:26:57.720 made him feel dizzy, and he told her never to 0:26:57.720 --> 0:27:01.240 give him something like that again. So he didn't want 0:27:01.280 --> 0:27:04.000 anything to do with that. But he did provide a 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:07.359 lot of interesting information about the Wagners and the fact 0:27:07.400 --> 0:27:10.720 that he believed that Billy Wagner was involved in these 0:27:10.760 --> 0:27:18.400