1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get 19 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years have been on 20 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: the road playing shows and seeing America through live music 21 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: this summer, I'll hit the stage who Season two of 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday. 23 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: We explore the live music venues and culture of a 24 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues 25 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: into the kind of venues you want to get to 26 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver or Seattle. Listen 27 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple 28 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hart, I'm Freedom 29 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: and I'm Rthie. We have spent the last twenty years 30 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: building and working at some of the largest companies in 31 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: the world. We worked with some remarkable people. Rob mcalinney. 32 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: When I see the people of Wrexham, I grew up 33 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: exactly like them. Check out the Art and Trurom show. 34 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: That is a R d Hi and sr Hi r 35 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: AM show. Listen to the Arc instry On show on 36 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,239 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or whenever you get to 37 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: your podcast and can you tell us first of all 38 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: if you noticed anything about George during that time. He 39 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: wasn't the same George that I knew. There are Facebook 40 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: messages between her and Hannah may rodin days before Hannah 41 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: May was murdered, in which they talked about this issue 42 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: of custody and how the Wagners wanted Hannah May to 43 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 1: sign over custody of her daughter. He was a lifelong 44 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: friend of Billy Wagner. He cooperated with the BCI and 45 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: he actually warned that Chris Senor that if you have 46 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: trouble with them, they will harm you or kill you. 47 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: If George would have just let me go outside to 48 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: cool off with it, then we would probably still be married. 49 00:02:55,560 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: All I wanted was five minutes to cry outside alone. 50 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: This is the Piked and Masaker returned to Pike County 51 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: season four, episode eleven, The Many Faces of George. I'm 52 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KATI Studios, along with 53 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. It's important to note that 54 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: George Wagner the Fourth, along with his father Billy Wagner, 55 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: whose child is upcoming, deny any wrongdoing and have pleaded 56 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: not guilty to all charges. We're picking up where we 57 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: left off last episode with Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa examining Tabitha Clayton, 58 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: George Wagner the Fourth's ex wife, on the stand. Can 59 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: you tell us what time of the day this argument 60 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: first started, and I don't mean any exact time though. 61 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: Was it the afternoon, was it the evening? It was 62 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: near evening, Yeah, it started to get dark, okay. And 63 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: did you have any more contact with them while you 64 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: were still there hiding under George's truck? No? Did you 65 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: see any of them? They are flashlights? You said they 66 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: were flashlights plural, more than one flashlight? Yes? And at 67 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: this point where were you? I was still underneath the 68 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: George's truck, okay, under the cab basically, okay, okay, in 69 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: the front tires. Did they find you? Did they eventually 70 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 1: give up looking for you? Yes? And what did you 71 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: do it? At that point? I got out from underneath 72 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: of the truck and went to the barn and got 73 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: my bicycle, and you got on you You got your bicycle, 74 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: you said, And what did you do? I left? I 75 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: went to the gas station up the road by McDonald's. 76 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: And can you tell us at that point was it dark? Yes? Okay, propably, 77 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: how far is that to the gas station driving? It's 78 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 1: about five or ten minutes. And can you tell us 79 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: why were you hiding from them? I didn't want to 80 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: get shot. And did you make it to the gas station? Yes, okay, 81 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: did you encounter anybody along the way? Yes? Tell us 82 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: who George and Jake in their red suburban And what 83 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: did they say to you? They were trying to get 84 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: me to get in the car so we could go home. 85 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: Did you agree to get into the car? What, if 86 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: anything did you say to them? They told him middle 87 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: isn't going to live with film if they're going to 88 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: hit me. And what happened then? Or did you tell 89 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: them where you were going? I told him that I 90 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 1: was going to go to the gas station so I 91 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: could call her mom so she can come and get me. 92 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: And is that what you did? Yes. Here's legal analyst 93 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: Mike Allen, followed by Stephanie and Jeff. This is key 94 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: testimony for the prosecution because, unlike so many of the 95 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: other witnesses, this really kind of centers on George, and 96 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: she's the prosecutors painting a picture of what kind of 97 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: a person George was, and you know, according to her, 98 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: it wasn't a very good person. We've never been able 99 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: to connect with Tabitha personally. We've spoken to her mother, 100 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: we've spoken to her sister and hearing her accounts firsthand 101 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: of something that we've we've heard versions of this story 102 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: of that night when she had to run out of 103 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: the house, but really hearing it out of her own 104 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: mouth was something really powerful. He's living in an event 105 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: that is nothing more and nothing less than traumatic. Picturing 106 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: her even just biking away in the night, trying to 107 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: escape and then the boys pulling up in that car 108 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: telling her to get in. You know how tap she 109 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: must have felt. After the incident that Tabitha described on 110 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: the stand, the Waggoners ended up filing a domestic violence 111 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: claim against her, claiming that she dragged her baby across 112 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: the floor. Now, they later dropped these charges. Tabitha and 113 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: George were married, therefore George had automatic rights in the 114 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: state of Ohio because they were married, so she literally 115 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: had to write her rights away and did whether she 116 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: knew what she was signing or not. It was around 117 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: the same time that Tabitha was becoming close with victim 118 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: hannahme Rodin, who as we know, was having similar custody 119 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: issues with her boyfriend Jake Wagner. Tabitha ran through some 120 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: of the Facebook messages she and Hannah had shared at 121 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: the time. She begins by recounting an exchange about being 122 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: able to share her son with George Wagner. Hannah Rodin 123 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: asked me if I've gotten to see lately. I said, no, 124 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: not yet. Every time my set a day to see him, 125 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: George has something to do or somewhere to go. He 126 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: tells me he will message me back when he gets home, 127 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: but then he never messages me back. Hannah says, oh, 128 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: I would be really upset. I would say I'm scared 129 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: to death that they are going to try and take 130 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: I said, all I am, and it kills me. Well, 131 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: you know, since y'all was not married, she goes to 132 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: you automatically, and he is the one that gets to 133 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: see her every other weekend or whatever. Hannah says, yeah, 134 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: I know, but they could fight that. I said, yeah, 135 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: but they judge ain't gonna take her away from you. 136 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: You have a good home and people to help take 137 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: care of her. She says, I know. I'm trying to 138 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: get me a place as soon as possible in a job. 139 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: I said, I mean, if George would have just let 140 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: me go outside to cool off of it, then we 141 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: would probably still be married. All I wanted was five 142 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: minutes to cry outside alone. Then there was an incident 143 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, right before the murders, during a visit 144 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: with her son at the Wagner's, Tabitha's newborn daughter was 145 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: seemingly poisoned. Was there another time that something happened after 146 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: you had visited your son at the Wagner residence? Yes? 147 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: And can you tell us do you recall when that 148 00:09:55,120 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: would have been? Was around most day or Easter? And 149 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: what year would that have been? Do we call twenty 150 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: and sixteen and can you tell us what happened? My 151 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: six month little daughter became unresponsive, so we took her 152 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: to the emergency room where they did tests and found 153 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: the drugs in her system. Tell me, first of all, 154 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,319 Speaker 1: this was a child of horse. Yes, she was six 155 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: months old in the time. Yes. And had she been 156 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: with you at the Wagon residence that day? Yes? And 157 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: tell us what kinds of interactions she had with the 158 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: other people in the home. She had stayed on my 159 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 1: hip for a while until Angela had asked to see her, 160 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: and so I gave her to rorists so she could 161 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: see her while I went and use to the restaurant. 162 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: Other than that time period where you win the restroom. 163 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: Was your daughter out of your view while you were 164 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: at the blackness? And did you make it back home 165 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: before you noticed that about your daughter as far as 166 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 1: her physical condition, yeah, I had made it home, okay. 167 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: And when you say she was unresponsive, what do you 168 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: mean by that? She was just laying there staring out 169 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: into space. I went to pick her up and she 170 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: was as limber as a new one. And what did 171 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: you do as a result about I had both my 172 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: husband and we took it in the emergency room okay, 173 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: and dremmy hall where you went the SMC and you 174 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: indicated that they did some tests And do you know 175 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: what driveway found in her system? Zan X? Were you 176 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: prescribed xanax your husband? No? Do you have any xanax 177 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: in your home at all? You know? And have you 178 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: been anywhere else that day? No? And as a result 179 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 1: of that, was there a Children's Service investigation? Yes? Okay? 180 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: And did both you and your husband submit to drug tests? 181 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: We did, but they did not do them at the 182 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 1: hospital okay. Did you volunteer to do them at the hospital, yes, 183 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: but you didn't take tests later about a week later okay. 184 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: And were those negative? Yes? It was all very shocking 185 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: testimony for the prosecution, showing that George might have had 186 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: violent tendencies and was also tightly bound to his family, 187 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 1: but the defense mounted a strong cross examination. They began 188 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: with Tabitha's affair with her friend Whitney's father Jay, and 189 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: the trust issues are created in her marriage. And who's 190 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: Whitney's father? Do you know? Yes? Who is your father? 191 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: Cecil Smith? Cecil Smith? And how do you know? How 192 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: well do you know Cecil Smith? Very well? Okay? And 193 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:15,719 Speaker 1: Cecil also goes by the name Jay. Is that right? Yes? Okay? 194 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: And at some point you had some revelation to tell 195 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: George about Jay, right? Yes? What was that? What was 196 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: the reason? Well? Yeah, what was the revelation? What did 197 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: you have to tell him? I had told him that 198 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 1: I cheated on him? Okay? With with Jay? Right? And 199 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: in pactas was more than just one occasion, right? Yes? 200 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: And how old is Jay? Not twenty five? Thirty years older? 201 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: You were about seventeen maybe other time. No. I didn't 202 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 1: get back with George until I was about eighteen ninety. 203 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: Defense attorney Richard Nash also points out that Tabitha and 204 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: her siblings had been sexually abused by her mother's husband, Dave. 205 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: The defense side of this as a quite reasonable reason 206 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: why the Wagners did not want Tabitha bringing their grandchild 207 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: around to family. The perpetrator, the person who victimized you. 208 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: That's Day right, Yes, And Day is your mother's husband. 209 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: Was he's dead? Now he's dead? And when did he die? 210 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: About five years ago? I think, okay. And your mother 211 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: was aware of the things that Day did to you. Yes, 212 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: And not only did he do these awful things to you, 213 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: but he did him to your sisters. Yes. Now, when 214 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: you left the Wagner home, we'll get to this more 215 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: in depth, but that's where you went, was the home 216 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: with Day right, Yes, And George did not want his 217 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: little boy living in the same home on his day. 218 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: Is that what he told you? Yes, okay, that seems 219 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: like a pretty rational thing to not want your child 220 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: around the child molester. Right. Yes, you don't fault George 221 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: for not wanting his son to be there, right, that 222 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: was a no. Yes, that was a no. I don't 223 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: blame him. And your mother was an enabler to these 224 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: things that had happened to you and your sisters. Yes. 225 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: The defense also killed Tabitha on her mental health and 226 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: whether she was doing enough to tend to him. Now 227 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: that I have refreshed her recollection, do you recall telling 228 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: David Jenkins you had a perfect life with your husband, yes, 229 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: and who you're referring to as George, right, Yes, Okay. 230 00:15:55,800 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: Now back to George and living with him, He had 231 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: various jobs, right, Yes, For a while he worked at 232 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: Bennetts and Medford, yes okay, And then for some time 233 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: he was hauling cattle right, yes. And when he would 234 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: haul cattle he would be gone for like a week 235 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: on or a week off. Yes, okay. Now back to 236 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: that situation where you had cut your arms? Did you 237 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: ever seek any help for that? The only reason I 238 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: done it was because George and Angela won't shut up 239 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: the many I learned about getting back on zoloft, even 240 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: though I told him the last time I was on 241 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: zooloft it didn't end well. Zolo Okay. So you have 242 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: been prescribed zoloft, is what you're telling us? Yes? And 243 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: for what reason? Or do you prescribed zoloft depression by poland? Right? 244 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: And you have said you would agree with me that 245 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: you've said that you don't like taking medication, right, Not 246 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: that one enough, okay, any other medication you didn't like 247 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:20,239 Speaker 1: taking a Ldelino. Then there were the continued claims of 248 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: different ways that George had been abusive, But the defense 249 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: took this moment to dissect and try and undercut Tabitha's testimony. 250 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: You ask you about that incident when you had left 251 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: the Wager home, if I'm not mistaken, Well, first off, 252 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: you had discussed that incident with the BCI agents, right 253 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: about me? Leading about me got in my arm about 254 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: the incident when you left. You've been questioned about that, 255 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: and you and you told them what happened, right, Yes? 256 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: Would you agree with me though, that when you talked 257 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: to the BCI agents you with him that you and 258 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: George were horse playing, playing around with the belt? Yes, okay, 259 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: and it's Michault. I don't hear that. Well you said, 260 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 1: what now with the belt? Yes, with the belt? But okay, Now, 261 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: you would agree with me that you never told any 262 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 1: BCI agent that there was playing with a belt? Right? What? 263 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: You never mentioned a belt to a BCI agent, right, 264 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: I'm it's part of that night. I'm pretty sure I did. Okay, 265 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: all right, But you've always said that it was just 266 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: the two of you horse plane or plane around? Right? Yes? 267 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: At first it was okay, So maybe I misunderstood your 268 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: testimony on direct examination, but it sounded to me as 269 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: if you were saying that he was like assaulting you 270 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: with a belt. That's not true, right, That's not what 271 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: I said, okay, And I may be wrong, but I'm 272 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,479 Speaker 1: just making sure that I understand you correctly. You weren't 273 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: testifying that he was assaulting you with a belt, right, No. 274 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: I did not say he was assaulting me with belt, okay. 275 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: And it was just you guys were playing around right 276 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: in the beginning, yes, okay. And then Angela, I guess 277 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: I wanted you guys to stop, yes, because I yelled 278 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:25,719 Speaker 1: at her precious baby. Okay, Um, all right. And you 279 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: wanted to leave the house, right, yes, And when you 280 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: went to leave, George had put his arm on the 281 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: door so you couldn't leave, yes, okay. Now this was 282 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: in November, right, yes, okay. And when you left on 283 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: your bicycle it was dark, right, yes, okay. And so 284 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: how much time went by from when you're trying to 285 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: leave and when you actually fled on your bicycle it 286 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: was dark? I don't know, maybe an hour. No, I'm 287 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: not clear about this disagreement you went into You had 288 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: to go into a courtroom in front of a judge 289 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: before you could divorce or dissolve your marriage, right yes. 290 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: And when you stood in front of that judge, the 291 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: judge trained you that you were agreeing to George being 292 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: the sole customer, right yes. And the judge also made 293 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: sure you understood that all visits would be supervised, right yes. 294 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 1: And you were asked if you understood that, and you 295 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 1: said yes, yes, okay, And there was nothing in there 296 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: about changing these things at a later time, right now, okay. 297 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: And so it's fair to say those were your wishes, 298 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: right exactly what the judge had made sure you understood. No, 299 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: that's not my wishes. George told me that it was 300 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: only temporary, that's what was supposed to have been done. 301 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 1: And whenever I got my own place, in my own job, 302 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: then I could have him back and would do the fifty. 303 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: I think that if we moved out then we would 304 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: probably still be together, because I still love him, I 305 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: really do. I always have and always will. But I 306 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: couldn't hank having to ask to do something with my 307 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: own son. We're going to take a break. We'll be 308 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: back in a moment. As the defensive cross examination continued 309 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: to pay Tabitha in a more uncertain light, it was 310 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: hard to know exactly what to make of her accusations. 311 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: Here's long crime reporter and Jeanette Levy, she has been 312 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: through a lot. And also you know the fact that 313 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: there are Facebook messages between her and Hannon A. Rudin 314 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: days before Hannah May was murdered, in which they talked 315 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: about this issue of custody and how the Wagners wanted 316 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: Hannah May to sign over custody of her daughter that 317 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 1: she had with Jake. And it was kind of sad 318 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 1: to hear Tabitha say that, literally, she still loves George. 319 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: I mean this was back in twenty sixteen, of course, 320 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: but it sounded like she still loved him and if 321 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: they had ever been able to move out on their own, 322 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: they probably would have still been together. She said she 323 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: had told George she wanted them to move out and 324 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: to get their own place. She thought it would help 325 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: their relationship. And she said that George said, we're a 326 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: farm family. We have to live together here again, Jeff 327 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: and Stephanie during cross exam, it really painted a picture 328 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: of Tabitha versus the Wagoners, which, as we know at 329 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 1: the time, Tabitha was a young woman in her late 330 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: teens early twenties, and the Wagoners were kind of a 331 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: force to be reckoned with. It seems like she kind 332 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: of just wanted all of the turmoil end and just 333 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 1: be a mom to her son, and somehow signing this 334 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: paperwork and doing what the Wagner's want it seemed like 335 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: the path of least resistance to her. I think this 336 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: testimony seems relevant to the charges that George Wagner the 337 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: fourth is facing, because not only does it paint a 338 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: picture of George as someone who is abusive and cruel, 339 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: but also the fact that he really moved in a 340 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: unit with his family, which then, as we know, is 341 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 1: what the prosecution is saying, happened with the planning and 342 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: execution of these murders. And it also speaks to a 343 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: bit of a pattern, a pattern in custody. Correct, does 344 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,360 Speaker 1: that mean it's a pattern in murder? I'm assuming those 345 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: links are still to come. Aside from Tabitha, the jury 346 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: also heard from two other key witnesses, both of whom 347 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: opted out of being recorded on the stand. The first 348 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: was Frankie Rowden's ex girlfriend who he shared a child with. 349 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: Here's Anteinette with insight into that testimony. I think the 350 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: jury seemed really interested in testimony since she had a 351 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: relationship with Frankie Roden, she is the mother of his 352 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: oldest son, and you know, she had some things that 353 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: were interesting that she was able to tuttle the jury. 354 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 1: You know, she talked about getting a phone call from 355 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: Hannah May in twenty fourteen which sounded terrifying. That she 356 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: said that Angela Wagner ran out of the house and 357 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: chased Tabitha out of the house with a shotgun, and 358 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: that Jake and George and Hannah all followed, and that 359 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: Jake told her not to leave the house. If she did, 360 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: he would chop off her legs. I mean, that's terrifying. 361 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: After a meeting in his chambers, Judge Daring emerged to 362 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: tell the jury that the phone call between Hannah and 363 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: Frankie Roden's ex girlfriend was probative evidence only. This is 364 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: to say, it's meant to prove a relevant fact in 365 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: the case, but can not be used to cast a 366 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: shadow over the Wagner's character. The second witness is Jeff Tackett, 367 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: a one time friend of Billy Wagner's. The pair became 368 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: friends when they were just thirteen years old. Jeff worked 369 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: at the Wagner family's Flying w Farms and once went 370 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: hunting with the entire Wagner family. According to Tackett, George 371 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: Wagner flew into a rage when his father killed a deer. 372 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 1: Before he did, George went home early. Tackett testified that 373 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: George was moody and erratic due to the pain pills 374 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: he took. These were pills that Angela allegedly plied him with. 375 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: Tackett was also with Billy in the days leading up 376 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: to the murders. After the massacre, Tackett believed Billy had 377 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: something to do with it and started working with the BCI. 378 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: He agreed to wear a wire and inform on the 379 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: Wagner's Mike Allen. He was a lifelong friend of Billy Wagner. 380 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: He cooperated with the PCI, and he actually wore a wire. 381 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: He saw Billy Wagner days before the murder in a 382 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: room filled with weapons, and that is I think very relevant, 383 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: again a peripheral relevance maybe to Georgie's guilt or innocence, 384 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: but in telling the tale and telling the story of 385 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: the Wagner family, it's important. He worked sometimes at the 386 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: Flying w Farm, which was the family farm, because he 387 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: was helping to break some horses. He knew Chris Senior, 388 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: Frankie Hannah May, and Chris Junior and said that he 389 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: warned Chris Senior that if you have trouble with them, 390 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: they will harm you or kill you. Here again, Anjeanette 391 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: Jeff Teckett described the Wagners as being very close, like 392 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: a cult. He's been around the Wagners a lot. He's 393 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: been around Frederica Wagner a lot. He talked about Frederica 394 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: Wagner even gave him a percocet for pain one time 395 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: because he was having an issue, and he said it 396 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: made him feel dizzy, and he told her never to 397 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: give him something like that again. So he didn't want 398 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: anything to do with that. But he did provide a 399 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: lot of interesting information about the Wagners and the fact 400 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: that he believed that Billy Wagner was involved in these 401 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: homicides after seeing all of those items in his bedroom. 402 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another break. Here's Angie Kneppa examining 403 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: the next witness Samantha's Staley. Samantha is a longtime friend 404 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: of both Jake and George Wagner's. She has appeared on 405 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: the podcast before and has a history with Jake Wagner. 406 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: Was there a time when you were intimate with Jake Wagner? Yes? Okay? 407 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: And can you tell us who's who initiated that he did? Okay? 408 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: And if you can just tell us what his purpose was. 409 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: So one summer I got a phone call he did 410 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: not know how to have in a course, I guess 411 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: he asked me if I could help him out, Being 412 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: young and dumb, I guess, I said sure, why not? 413 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: And it was a one time plan. So we just 414 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: did what we did, okay. And do you recall approximately 415 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: when that would have been, I know, a summer, I'm 416 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: guessing around two twelve, but that one night stand aside, 417 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: Samantha felt more drawn to George in comparison to Jake. 418 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: George seemed to have more of his own personality. She 419 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: found him to be effusive and always cracking jokes, whereas 420 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: Jake was always plotting and devious. At one point during 421 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: his battle with Hanname Rodin, Jake guess Samantha to dig 422 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: up dirt on Hannah to help his case for soul custody. 423 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: Samantha refused. George, Samantha says, was much kinder, nicer, and 424 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: in her words, more pubbly. So in my opinion, my 425 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: eyes outlook, George would always go out and do his 426 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: own thing. Jake would always have to get Angela's opinion 427 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: before he would go do anything Angela didn't approve. Jake 428 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: never did. George, on the other hand, would just do 429 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: his own thing. And as I understand it, when you 430 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: were very young, you felt like your mother and Angela 431 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: would kind of pushing you over towards being with Jake, yes, 432 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: and that you really didn't care for too much, is 433 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: that right? Yeah? And actually as the years wore on, 434 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: you were more attracted to George. Is that fair to say? 435 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: He actually made me feel like I was wanted? Honestly? 436 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: It was nice to you, right, yes, And that continued 437 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: into a donut right yes. And in fact, I think 438 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: you just told us a story that when you were 439 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: kind of on a rough spot around Christmas time, I 440 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: think you described it, he came over and brought toys 441 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: for your trial, yes, and gave you cash money to 442 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: help you pay with the bills. Yes, how would you 443 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: describe him when he was very young? He's bubbly. Here 444 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: again a Jeanette. Samantha Staley said some things that were 445 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: actually helpful to George Wagner. She painted George Wagner out 446 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: to be somebody who was very nice to her. She 447 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: said that, you know, there was a Christmas where she 448 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: didn't have money to buy Christmas gifts for her children, 449 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: and so George Wagner met her somewhere and gave her 450 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: the presents and gave her money to pay her electric bills. 451 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: She said things nice things about the Wagners. Her father 452 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: had had a medical issue, and she said, Frederica, you know, 453 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: paid to keep utilities on. But after the road and murders, 454 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: Samantha said, George's demeanor markedly changed. Frankie Roden was her 455 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: first love, so she was already shaken by the news 456 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: of his death, but George was less than consoling. Can 457 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: you tell us after the homicide occurred, did you ever 458 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: have contact with Jake or George or Angela or Billy 459 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: after the homicide murders? I got my car in May 460 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: of twenty sixteen. I had went fishing with George a 461 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: couple days later after getting my car, maybe a week 462 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: after that, I'm sure if it was a couple of 463 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: days for a week, okay, so approximately a month after 464 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: the murders had happened. Yes, he went fishing. Yes? And 465 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: who went fishing with you? Myself, my husband, and George? 466 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: And can you tell us, first of all, if you 467 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: noticed anything about George during that time? He wasn't the 468 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: same George that I knew. He looked very sad, very hurt, 469 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: very lost, very dead inside. He didn't have the crooked 470 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: smile that he always had, so you knew him to 471 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: be more Joe vile or happy or bubbly bubbly? Yes, 472 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: and how did that strike you? That night when we 473 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: were fishing, we were going to stay there all night. 474 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: It actually started a lightning, and he said, I don't 475 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: fish in a lightning, So we honestly started to pack up. 476 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: I had said something Frankie had popped in my mind. 477 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly what I had said, and I 478 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: just started ramdingle and started questioning, you know, can you 479 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: believe this has happened? They're gone, They're never coming back. 480 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: I was pretty much told to shock a half up 481 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: more on that next time. For more information on the 482 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie 483 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, 484 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: Jeff Shane, Alan Wieterer, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me 485 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tua. Music 486 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker is a production 487 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Kati Studios. For more podcasts from my 488 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 489 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Carol 490 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. 491 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is 492 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors 493 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: who were felt to be eligible batch. One of them 494 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: was up Barrenmout. On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, 495 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He choked it to the point 496 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,959 Speaker 1: she went unconscious. I would call him and I would say, 497 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: I know you killed my sister. You can listen to 498 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever 499 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. This is the story of a 500 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 1: man who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, 501 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: and that's a name you don't forget. He was a 502 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: visionary who built a fortune as a black man during 503 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: Jim Crow during the Depression. But today not many people 504 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: know about him. The race sort of wiped out, and 505 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: I wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet 506 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever 507 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Free and I'm Rthie. 508 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: We have spent the last twenty years building and working 509 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: at some of the largest companies in the world. We 510 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: worked with some remarkable people Rob mclenny. When I see 511 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: the people of Wrexham, I grew up exactly like them. 512 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 1: Check out the R the Intrarm Show. That is a 513 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: R D HI and s R I R A M Show. 514 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: Listen to The Art instry M Show on the iHeart 515 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts 516 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 1: from iHeart Podcasts and Nomadic Engine. The acclaimed dramatic thriller 517 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: returns after Shock season two. She's like a Ghost. We 518 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: had an agreement to keep each other's secret. None of 519 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,800 Speaker 1: you are making decisions to keep the rest of us safe, 520 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 1: which leaves me I'm asking for your forgiveness. After Shock 521 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: season two, starring Sarah Wayne Kelly's David Harbor and Jeffrey 522 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: Dean Morgan. Listen to after Shock on the iHeartRadio app, 523 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.