Speaker 1: Some of the deepest fheares I have are related to
Speaker 1: a historical pattern of behavior or thinking, which I don't
Speaker 1: know that I was even conscious of.
Speaker 2: Start and some of the biggest.
Speaker 3: Book franchises of all time if is Welcome, Orlando Bloom
Speaker 3: or Orlando Bloom.
Speaker 1: I think that our deepest spheres they often lie in
Speaker 1: areas unknown to us, because anything that I try to
Speaker 1: hold on to doesn't serve me, and that's really hard.
Speaker 2: Hey everyone, I've got some huge news to share with you.
Speaker 2: In the last ninety days, seventy nine point four percent
Speaker 2: of our audience came from viewers and listeners that are
Speaker 2: not subscribed to this channel. There's research that shows that
Speaker 2: if you want to create a habit, make it easy
Speaker 2: to access. By hitting the subscribe button, you're creating a
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Speaker 1: Jay said Jay Sheddy Only Sheet.
Speaker 2: Hey everyone, welcome back to on Purpose, the place you
Speaker 2: come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's conversation
Speaker 2: is long overdue. HAVE been excited for this guest to
Speaker 2: be in the studio for many, many years now, and
Speaker 2: I can't wait to have what he just called a
Speaker 2: heart centric conversation. My favorite types of exchanges and interactions.
Speaker 2: Today's guest and on Purpose is the one and only
Speaker 2: Orlando Bloom, well known for starring in some of the
Speaker 2: biggest movies of all time, whether it's The Lord of
Speaker 2: the Rings or Pirates of the Caribbean and so many more.
Speaker 2: And Orlando will next be seen starring in Peacock's limited
Speaker 2: adventure DOCU series To the Edge, which Orlando also produced,
Speaker 2: and premiers on April eighteenth. This is something I've already
Speaker 2: had a snapshot off, already a sneak peek. I can't
Speaker 2: wait for you to see it. I think it's going
Speaker 2: to challenge you internally and externally, and I think it's
Speaker 2: going to help you get out of your comfort zone
Speaker 2: this year, So make sure you don't miss To the Edge.
Speaker 2: Welcome to On Purpose, Orlando Bloom. Orlando, thank you for
Speaker 2: doing this.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. Jay.
Speaker 2: It's really an honor to have you here, because thanks
Speaker 2: I feel like we don't know each other we've never
Speaker 2: met or spilled together. Yeah, it feels like it. And
Speaker 2: even today when we were just talking when you came in,
Speaker 2: I was like, why is this so easy?
Speaker 1: Mystical?
Speaker 2: What is it about? You know, you were saying you're
Speaker 2: new to the world of podcasting, but it seems to
Speaker 2: be something you're opening yourself up to. Where's that? Where's
Speaker 2: that coming from?
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I love what you do. Thank
Speaker 1: you for having me. It's so beautiful to see to
Speaker 1: see the messaging you put out in the world. To
Speaker 1: the Edge is the first time I've worked in a
Speaker 1: unscripted space and I'm very proud of it. And I
Speaker 1: thought i'd try, you know, like, I haven't intentionally not
Speaker 1: done podcasts. I just haven't I and I've been wanting,
Speaker 1: as you said, to work with you for ages. So
Speaker 1: I was like, totally sit down and have a conversation
Speaker 1: with you. And I tried to get to one of
Speaker 1: your your your speaking engagements, which I wasn't able to.
Speaker 1: But it's like, I just thought, this is an opportunity
Speaker 1: to like have a heart centric conversation, and I love
Speaker 1: the messaging you're putting out. And actually, you know, Edge
Speaker 1: is a show that came up. It was the birth child,
Speaker 1: the brainchild of a period of time that I think
Speaker 1: was really challenging in the world for everyone, you know,
Speaker 1: through COVID, where I think fear was sort of around
Speaker 1: all of us. We were all like, wait, well, you
Speaker 1: know what, what do we what are we living through?
Speaker 1: This is so unique? And I was it was sort
Speaker 1: of palpable in my environment, and I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: comfortable with fear. I'm like, I'm always like I run
Speaker 1: into it, like I like want to transform it. I
Speaker 1: want to like I want to you know, it's people say,
Speaker 1: what are you afraid of? Right, you know, sharks, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm afraid of fear, you know, because it's like I
Speaker 1: want to confront anything in my life that feels challenging
Speaker 1: on those levels. So actually, initially I would love to
Speaker 1: have spoken to you on my show. I had this
Speaker 1: idea where I would speak to people, you know, and
Speaker 1: also people like in blue zones and spaces in the
Speaker 1: world where people like have just got it figured, they've
Speaker 1: got it dial whether it's through dire lifestyle choices and
Speaker 1: all of the things that you speak about. It's like,
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to go and explore the
Speaker 1: people in the world that do that. And I've had
Speaker 1: this amazing opportunity with UNISEF for many years twenty years
Speaker 1: now almost, and so I've sort of been in communities
Speaker 1: where I've seen how an impact, what a great impact,
Speaker 1: positivity can have, right, which I think is the message
Speaker 1: of UNSEF. Also the funding that they support for communities.
Speaker 1: So I was like, I want to go and talk
Speaker 1: to people, but we didn't really get we got no hits.
Speaker 1: Nobody was really interested in me doing that. And I
Speaker 1: think there's also a Blue Zone show that is apparently
Speaker 1: epic as well, so they but how about we just
Speaker 1: throw you out of a plane and I'll see if
Speaker 1: you can swim to the bottom of the ocean. And when
Speaker 1: we throw you up a mountain, I was like, I
Speaker 1: could do that.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It also feeds into my sort of adrenaline sort of
Speaker 1: fueled sort of aspects of my life. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: as a kid, you know, I was I think I
Speaker 1: just was so active and physical and sort of approached
Speaker 1: life with that fearlessness, and in some ways, you know,
Speaker 1: that was a blessing. But I came definitely came out
Speaker 1: banged up and bruised. I think I had I was
Speaker 1: diagnosed with dyslexia when I was like maybe nine to ten,
Speaker 1: so I had some extra schooling in that space and
Speaker 1: that really helped me because I had I had a
Speaker 1: kind of unusually high IQ, but I just was really
Speaker 1: challenged that focus and concentration. I think I was probably
Speaker 1: undiagnosed early on with like probably ADHD, which I've subsequently
Speaker 1: kind of come to realize that was definitely something that
Speaker 1: I've I've been navigating and now I've kind of found
Speaker 1: my way through to the sort of magic of what
Speaker 1: that can be for me.
Speaker 2: Do you remember your earliest fear as a kid.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I'm an actor, but I used to
Speaker 1: just be terrified at getting on stage. I had real
Speaker 1: stage fright as a kid. I was actually my mother
Speaker 1: enrolled me into a ballet class as a kid, so
Speaker 1: until like I think from probably a todd tiny toddler
Speaker 1: until I was maybe four or five, and I think
Speaker 1: at around four, we did this performance in Canterbury at
Speaker 1: the Marlow Theater, which is the biggest theater in town,
Speaker 1: pretty big theater actually, and we did a little ballet
Speaker 1: show which was just me as there was probably a
Speaker 1: whole lot going on. And I'm four, so I don't
Speaker 1: entirely remember, but I do know that I was dressed
Speaker 1: in a monkey see. I remember having a really hot
Speaker 1: itchy monkey see on and having an itch on my
Speaker 1: bottom and I was a little embarrassed, so I turned
Speaker 1: around to scratch my bottom so nobody would see me.
Speaker 1: But the whole audience just ripped because kind of cute, right,
Speaker 1: So I think my first fear was, like, I think
Speaker 1: it like being on stage. So I kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: I did. I did all the National Youth Theater stuff
Speaker 1: in London. I did youth theater. Everything I could do
Speaker 1: at school was my sort of start, and I was
Speaker 1: just constantly every time I did it. Like I used
Speaker 1: to remember walking on stage and I'd be like, my
Speaker 1: mom used to do this, you can you know. My
Speaker 1: mom had this one thing and she shake her fist.
Speaker 1: Says a lot about my life, but she'd shake her
Speaker 1: fist and say you can do it, you know. And
Speaker 1: I so I had this thing and I'd sort of go,
Speaker 1: and then I I was quite you know, I was.
Speaker 1: I was confirmed in the Cathedral, Canterbury by the Archbiitgeal
Speaker 1: of canterabury because it was like where I'm from and stuff,
Speaker 1: which kind of a big deal. Religious practice was always
Speaker 1: kind of a part of my life, so I'd always
Speaker 1: sort of say a prayer as well and think and
Speaker 1: then kind of go out and do it. And I'd
Speaker 1: like and it was like never more focused than when
Speaker 1: I was on stage. And that was a great feeling
Speaker 1: because otherwise I think I was struggling in school to
Speaker 1: articulate my thoughts, follow or continue my thought thread. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think fear for me was that, which is ironic
Speaker 1: because of course now I'm you know, then I went
Speaker 1: on to being an actor, but also I have a
Speaker 1: you know, I think at sixteen, I moved to London,
Speaker 1: which was quite young, and I was on my own
Speaker 1: to do my A levels. And it was when I
Speaker 1: was sixteen that I met a Buddhist practice, so early. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I was very young to meet a Buddhist practice,
Speaker 1: and it was a philosophy and it is a religious practice,
Speaker 1: but it's way more of a sort of philosophy and
Speaker 1: almost like a guide to life, if you like.
Speaker 2: For me, what was it about it at sixteen that
Speaker 2: resonated with you?
Speaker 1: I think that having left the sort of institutionalized schooling
Speaker 1: that you and I both recognized from London and England
Speaker 1: rather not London. I was in Canterbury, but I went
Speaker 1: to a private school. I had a pretty solid middle
Speaker 1: class education. But so it was like it was like
Speaker 1: there was sort of you know, chapel every morning, Simpson,
Speaker 1: you know, and so I had I had that sort
Speaker 1: of in me and I think I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 1: But when I moved to London, I didn't have I
Speaker 1: didn't find the church or find a community. And it
Speaker 1: was when I was studying for my A levels I
Speaker 1: realized that I needed extra art for my sculpture exam,
Speaker 1: which I hadn't thought thought through. I'd given up art
Speaker 1: quite a young age. I just didn't have a teacher
Speaker 1: that I didn't just it was unfortunate. So I met
Speaker 1: through my best friend. I met an artist. He introduced
Speaker 1: me and I did extra classes and i'd just go
Speaker 1: back to Kent. He was actually from Ken So I
Speaker 1: go down on the weekends and he set me up
Speaker 1: in a room and he'd say with an easel and
Speaker 1: he say, here, just do this. And I had a
Speaker 1: humor in the other room and he'd be going numbying
Speaker 1: and nummy on aigo and I'd be like just carrying.
Speaker 1: And one day I walked down so weeding. He goes,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just chanting that you're going to be
Speaker 1: really successful in your exams and you have a really
Speaker 1: successful life. I was like, cool, well will it help?
Speaker 1: He goes, yeah. I was like great, So I just
Speaker 1: got down on my knees. I was like numb yawning.
Speaker 1: And and so David, who is who I've known since
Speaker 1: I like, yes, maybe seventeen, sixteen or seventeen, but he
Speaker 1: was he is he shakabuuka me, which is what we
Speaker 1: call him my practice where I swear somebody introduces you
Speaker 1: to the practice. So he is, and he was wonderful
Speaker 1: because he he's sort of At sixteen, I was living
Speaker 1: in London and I was a real terrorway when I
Speaker 1: was like a club kid, I was like having a
Speaker 1: really good time. Everything was like you know, I mean
Speaker 1: I was, I wasn't. I don't want to mischaracterize myself
Speaker 1: because in some ways I always knew what I wanted to.
Speaker 1: I kind of had a sort of self discipline regulator almost.
Speaker 1: I didn't go too far, but I always pushed the
Speaker 1: boundaries of what was I could do, and I was
Speaker 1: having a really good time, and I was like and
Speaker 1: I said, well, you know, he explained it in a
Speaker 1: very sort of simple way to me. But it was
Speaker 1: like I was like, well, can I chant for these
Speaker 1: things that I kind of you know, it could have
Speaker 1: been anything? And he was like, yeah, sure. And sometimes
Speaker 1: it was like, well, I want to have a really
Speaker 1: good night in this, that and the other, and he
Speaker 1: was like, see what happens, and and I would and
Speaker 1: sometimes I'd wake up with a really sore head and
Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh, okay. So words like integraty, integrity
Speaker 1: with them, courage, compassion, things that were like were started
Speaker 1: to come filter at a young age into my into
Speaker 1: my thinking through also the writings of Dasaku Okada is
Speaker 1: my mentor, and so it was like it was just
Speaker 1: it was this perfect moment for me because I think
Speaker 1: I always wanted a roadmap. I think there's an art
Speaker 1: to living, and for me, this philosophy is for me.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's a it's a way for me to
Speaker 1: understand the art of living. And I think it's really
Speaker 1: like the law of cause and effect, and I think
Speaker 1: all religions kind of mix and match and meet. The
Speaker 1: central core of all practices I think is one of
Speaker 1: you know, good good will. I believe, right, but there
Speaker 1: was almost like science like cause and effect. What goes
Speaker 1: up must come down. It just sort of it worked
Speaker 1: for me as a as an idea, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: I became, but it took me four years. I shack
Speaker 1: a book and my sister, my best friend and it
Speaker 1: was like and they and one day my best friend is, well,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go and get Gohons and Gohans and
Speaker 1: is this scroll that we we chant to? And I
Speaker 1: was like, wait, you what so I'm getting Gohonso. I
Speaker 1: was like uh. And he'd been chanting for like maybe
Speaker 1: I don't know, six eight months, and I was like uh.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I'll join you. I'll I was like,
Speaker 1: I've been doing this for four years and I hadn't
Speaker 1: or you know, years and I hadn't. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: became a member of the Sui, which is the organization.
Speaker 1: And that was you know, when I was nine a
Speaker 1: bit later because I'd started chanting, but I just used
Speaker 1: to just I chanted, and it was like it kept
Speaker 1: me in rhythm and it and it was and that's
Speaker 1: really for me. It kept me in a flow. It's
Speaker 1: like the rhythm of life. And in a way. When
Speaker 1: I was doing my my sculpture exam, I remember I
Speaker 1: was painting like a whale bone and a lemon or
Speaker 1: a pineapple like it was it with a whale bone
Speaker 1: and like some kind of piece of fruit, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I'd look at it. I'd painting and it
Speaker 1: was a fifteen hour still life oil painting exam had
Speaker 1: a still life drawing exam as well as the sculpture.
Speaker 1: I'd go to the toilet be like I come back
Speaker 1: and we like and finish the painting, and I think like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got the highest grade. And then they called and
Speaker 1: said we'd like to keep this work as the highest
Speaker 1: grade for the country. Kind of thing is like like
Speaker 1: this is the bench and I was like I hadn't
Speaker 1: been doing art and I so I really tested it
Speaker 1: and it was you know, I think I think the
Speaker 1: power as you you know, you know, when you set
Speaker 1: an intention and at such a young age, you know,
Speaker 1: for young people, for young people today, I think having
Speaker 1: something like something that you can trust and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I really admire I think it's hard to
Speaker 1: have faith.
Speaker 2: With the with the chanting and with the practice or
Speaker 2: the habit of that. What were some of the more
Speaker 2: philosophical lessons or principles that kind of became anchor or
Speaker 2: a compass in your life at that time where there
Speaker 2: certain teachings or lessons that stood out and you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: these are going to form the principles that I'm going
Speaker 2: to live by.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so many Iasakua Kada. Fortunately, he's well, has has
Speaker 1: written extensively and it's very accessible.
Speaker 2: For those who don't know, Please tell us, so is.
Speaker 1: Isakuakada is my mentor? He was? He is? He brought
Speaker 1: this practice from Japan around the world. It was you know,
Speaker 1: it was in the sixties, I think he is when
Speaker 1: he left Japan and traveled first to Hawaii and the
Speaker 1: founding members of this practice and many of whom are
Speaker 1: wonderful Japanese women who have been a bit a living
Speaker 1: around the world, and he brought this practice two one
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety three countries I think now his mentor
Speaker 1: Jose Toder and before that, matcha guki, Jose Toda's mental
Speaker 1: matcha guki in the sixties in Japan brought this practice
Speaker 1: forward and Isakaa Kaida really made it accessible. He wrote extensively.
Speaker 1: He he's written a book about his book about his
Speaker 1: life is written from another perspective. It's like it's him,
Speaker 1: but it's written as another person. It's at set the person.
Speaker 1: Well if it's not the same. But if it's it's him,
Speaker 1: but it's not, it's he's got a pseudo name for
Speaker 1: who it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right, so he.
Speaker 1: But it's just it's I think there are so many
Speaker 1: ideas within the practice, but at its core, it's like,
Speaker 1: I just find that through chanting, you say, nam might
Speaker 1: devote myself from your heard inga cure to the mystic
Speaker 1: law of cause and effect through the vibration of sound.
Speaker 1: And the sound is now your nga cure you heard
Speaker 1: ye cure as the title of the Lotus Sutra, and
Speaker 1: as you may or may not know, but yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: Shakamuni Buddha, the Buddha, said Arthur the he wrote sutras teachings,
Speaker 1: and in the low past eight years of his life,
Speaker 1: it was the Lotus Sutra before he passed that he
Speaker 1: sort of proclaimed as the teaching that would lead all
Speaker 1: living beings to enlightenment. In this lifetime, and so that's
Speaker 1: why we chant nam Engikyl being also the title of
Speaker 1: the Lotus Sutra. And then I recite two chapters from
Speaker 1: the Expedient Means of the Lifespan chapter from the Lotus Sutra,
Speaker 1: which is part of this practice, which is beautifully Japanese
Speaker 1: because it traveled from India through the Silk paths and
Speaker 1: landed in Japan. And it was Nission Daishonen who was
Speaker 1: a in the in twelve seventy twelve seventy around then,
Speaker 1: so you call that the thirteenth century. He propagated the
Speaker 1: teaching and he brought this teaching to the world at
Speaker 1: that time. So he he enshrined in sumiyink the Gohonzen,
Speaker 1: which is as I sort of said, that scroll that
Speaker 1: I chant to, he inscribed it with sumiy inc and
Speaker 1: he gave because he recognized that sort of humans needed something,
Speaker 1: a mandela, something to look at. And really it's like
Speaker 1: it's like polishing my mirror. So I excuse my adid brain,
Speaker 1: but it's like polishing my mirror. So I think about
Speaker 1: when I chant, I think about in India, it was
Speaker 1: like a bronze mirror and you polish it and then
Speaker 1: you see your reflection. Right, So the more I chant,
Speaker 1: the more I see my reflection and I see the
Speaker 1: things or like it's like a tea leaf, a glass
Speaker 1: of tea and I'm just like stirring away and it
Speaker 1: comes to the surface and you're do chanting. And I
Speaker 1: think as you get older and I have, you know,
Speaker 1: two beautiful children, and you realize that, like it's sort
Speaker 1: of I think death is a big part of life,
Speaker 1: and it's something that we some people can be very
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with or challenged by, and we're mystically, you know,
Speaker 1: here for such a short period of time relative to everything,
Speaker 1: and this practice is like kind of constantly preparing you.
Speaker 1: And it's sort of so the obstacles that you see
Speaker 1: in life because essentially, you know what the way that
Speaker 1: I've learned through my practices that we're born, we grow old,
Speaker 1: we'll get sick, and we'll die and so will everyone
Speaker 1: around us, and hopefully nobody we love too soon. But
Speaker 1: the truth is you will lose and there is and
Speaker 1: I think that when you can see the obstacles in
Speaker 1: your life, and it may be just waking up in
Speaker 1: the morning and getting a bill that you can't afford
Speaker 1: to pay, or you know, for somebody, or when you
Speaker 1: take the obstacles in your life as the opportunities for
Speaker 1: your growth, when you reframe it as oh wow, because
Speaker 1: the truth is, at least my truth through my practice,
Speaker 1: is that we're never not going to have opportunity obstacles, right,
Speaker 1: And it's just how we see those obstacles and whether
Speaker 1: they become our benefit. So it's like painting a canvas, right,
Speaker 1: like when I broke my back, or when I had
Speaker 1: you know, near death experiences or you know, experiences I
Speaker 1: say about a few kind of interesting things in my life,
Speaker 1: or heartbreak or heart reveal or you know, something that
Speaker 1: happened in school or things like those are the deep
Speaker 1: colors in your canvas. Otherwise everythings are sort of like
Speaker 1: plain nice, you know, and you want those rich textures, right,
Speaker 1: or at least I do. So I find I found
Speaker 1: that that, you know, the practice has given me the
Speaker 1: sort of the pathway and and by the way, I
Speaker 1: am like I intentionally sabotage myself, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I mean, I literally I'm like, I'm like I'm not chanting.
Speaker 1: I have chanted because I'm like I get in my
Speaker 1: own way, you know, I'm far from like I'm like literally,
Speaker 1: you know, and I'll get picked up on it by
Speaker 1: by friends I keep. I have a very you know,
Speaker 1: I have David and my best friend Mark and Chris
Speaker 1: and Chris who's in the show actually give I called Gibbo.
Speaker 1: We all practice and so we kind of keep each
Speaker 1: other kind of accountable a little bit as well. But
Speaker 1: as you get older, you know, I think you're you know,
Speaker 1: you've probably experienced in in your own way, but it
Speaker 1: becomes so much harder, you know, just to keep that
Speaker 1: kind of that faith in everything because because but it's
Speaker 1: been for me that it's been I think I was
Speaker 1: such a young age to get it. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I know people who are born into it because you
Speaker 1: know their parents, you know, were certain and that's like this,
Speaker 1: you know, fortune baby I call and that's so blessed,
Speaker 1: you know, such a blessing. But but the Eight Wins
Speaker 1: is something that Nission has shown and wrote this book.
Speaker 1: I didn't intend this to be about. It's beautiful, just
Speaker 1: like riffing beautiful, like he wrote. He wrote, he wrote
Speaker 1: the Ghost Show and it's like letters to his disciples,
Speaker 1: and it's crazy because they're like they're written in twelve
Speaker 1: twenty twelve seventy something, then the thirteenth century. But they're
Speaker 1: so weirdly current, Like it's a bit because it's like
Speaker 1: there's a samurai, Sho Shingo king Yo, who I kind
Speaker 1: of like see myself as like maybe I was, you know,
Speaker 1: like I have this like nice idea of who he was,
Speaker 1: but like he had he had shared the practice with
Speaker 1: his master, and his master was like giving them all
Speaker 1: these lands, and then all these other samurai were jealous,
Speaker 1: and so they're like they tore his character down and
Speaker 1: he was banished, and then he managed to kind of
Speaker 1: come back because of his practice and communicate to his
Speaker 1: lord and it kind of worked. But it's like we
Speaker 1: know that story. It happens in every office in every city,
Speaker 1: or at least you know, we've heard it time and
Speaker 1: time again. So they're so sort of current and relative
Speaker 1: but absolutely white that the eight wins is a really
Speaker 1: great is one that I grew up. A wise man
Speaker 1: is not swayed by the eight wins of praise, censure
Speaker 1: on a disgrace, pleasure, suffering, prosperity the client, and that
Speaker 1: is really powerful, you know, And that was one that
Speaker 1: just like for me, it was like you know, just
Speaker 1: I don't think i've I think I've been swayed many
Speaker 1: and many a time.
Speaker 2: How does one not get swayed by praise? And what
Speaker 2: was the second.
Speaker 1: Word, raising? Censure?
Speaker 2: So the opposite, Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, So how
Speaker 2: does one not get swayed?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think I think as a as a as
Speaker 1: a young man, and I don't, like I feel I'm
Speaker 1: young at heart. So I kind of like years ago,
Speaker 1: you know, when I was, like when it was when
Speaker 1: I was what I feel like, really in the eye
Speaker 1: of the storm, and just like my whole life was
Speaker 1: just like tabloid fodder in some ways, it felt like
Speaker 1: constantly and anything I did, I think that was really
Speaker 1: challenging for me. It was like and I don't think
Speaker 1: I handled I don't think I didn't have any kind
Speaker 1: of major meltdowns, but like I was really upset about
Speaker 1: how my character felt like it was being dragged. Actually
Speaker 1: it's why I started on Instagram account, which I did
Speaker 1: some I started very late in the game, but I
Speaker 1: only did it because actually my partner Katie had said
Speaker 1: it's a really good way to gather the reins and
Speaker 1: create a narrative, and like, now I know it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know how many people even really use there's
Speaker 1: so many different new app things, media platforms, you know.
Speaker 1: But in a way it kind of was able. It
Speaker 1: sort of helped me to kind of create my own
Speaker 1: narrative at least and to put messaging out that I
Speaker 1: felt was, you know, reflected my whole my ideas and views,
Speaker 1: you know, which obviously are mostly very centric centered around
Speaker 1: my practice and Disaccada really his writing.
Speaker 2: I love seeing you person about.
Speaker 1: Someone that says someone he has, he has well beautiful things,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, you know, so I think I just
Speaker 1: I just kind of my practice definitely helped me with that.
Speaker 1: It was definitely anchoring. I think I think I kind
Speaker 1: of I got very good at hiding, which I would
Speaker 1: never encourage and if you know, but in a way,
Speaker 1: I kind of like I got very good at putting
Speaker 1: a hat on and going moving through the world without
Speaker 1: And you know, if I could go back, I would
Speaker 1: probably say to that kid, like, you know what, shine
Speaker 1: it bro just be you're here to make mistakes, and
Speaker 1: if they're public or private, you know, they're the mistakes
Speaker 1: that you will. That's that deep purple in your canvas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just it's it's not really how you go down, it's
Speaker 1: how you get up right. So and trust your heart,
Speaker 1: you know, and trust that you're in the in the flow.
Speaker 1: And that's that's something that I don't think I had
Speaker 1: a lot of, you know, as a kid. So as
Speaker 1: you as you, as you move on, you just go well,
Speaker 1: the noise just eventually subsides. And now I'm like, have
Speaker 1: a perspective on it, just for years and I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's it's, it's, it's it's it's helped to know, you know,
Speaker 1: I like, I think it's but that was it was
Speaker 1: definitely through chanting that I think, and my practice and
Speaker 1: friends and the community that I had around me at
Speaker 1: the time, and and also being on the road and
Speaker 1: working so much. I think I just didn't most of
Speaker 1: it was just like hardly didn't really look at it,
Speaker 1: didn't really pay attention.
Speaker 2: But yeah, hearing you say that, I mean, what's beautiful
Speaker 2: is that it often feels like so many of these
Speaker 2: lessons can only be lived and understood when they're lived.
Speaker 2: But it's helpful to know the lesson you're learning and
Speaker 2: how it fits in. Yeah, it's almost like you had
Speaker 2: to go through that you couldn't have asked yourself to
Speaker 2: deal with it better or do better at the time. No, no,
Speaker 2: but the fact that you had this lesson philosophy practice to.
Speaker 1: Guide back or to kind of understand look at give
Speaker 1: me perspective. Yeah, for sure, that was a massive blessing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you're talking about fears and your first fear
Speaker 2: all the way through to this. Obviously when you watch
Speaker 2: the show, there's this feeling of the external fear, right,
Speaker 2: Like the idea of jumping out of a plane, the
Speaker 2: idea of rock climbing. All of these things are naturally
Speaker 2: inherently scary, right, right, what's the internal fear when you're
Speaker 2: doing it? Like, what is the dialogue that's going on?
Speaker 2: Because obviously you're quite a reflective, thoughtful individual. What's really
Speaker 2: the fear because it obviously isn't jumping out the plane
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it comes back to trust and faith,
Speaker 1: right and self worth. Right, there are protocols that you follow,
Speaker 1: like all of these like adrenaline junkie athletes that you see,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe posting a fifteen second clip on a
Speaker 1: social media page, have spent their lives and potentially weeks, days, years, hours, two,
Speaker 1: perfect whatever. It's you're seeing for a fifteen second moment,
Speaker 1: and you know, like Louke Aikins jumped from like the
Speaker 1: stratosphere without a parachute, landing in a net. Camille Jebba,
Speaker 1: who is who is my free diving coach along with
Speaker 1: Will Troubich, who was who runs this vertical Blue competition
Speaker 1: in the Bahamas where I was diving Supreme Athletes who
Speaker 1: you know Camilla has swam to she's the Mexican world
Speaker 1: record holder of like eighteen eighty plus meters. Now that's
Speaker 1: a you know, I think I got to thirty seven meters,
Speaker 1: which is about the four days, which was like one hundred,
Speaker 1: and I was really struggling because of my mask I had.
Speaker 1: I think I wish I'd not worn a mask. I
Speaker 1: wish i'd just like had goggled like the other I
Speaker 1: wish I'd thought that through because but I had some
Speaker 1: issues with equalizing. But you know and or Mo Beck
Speaker 1: who's this adaptive climber who just you know was born
Speaker 1: with one hand and it started climbing as a child
Speaker 1: and just you know, is the woman in her field
Speaker 1: doing what she does and it's like a glass hot
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's just overflowing. These people are just overflowing.
Speaker 1: But what it is is that they are experts and
Speaker 1: they it is a life choice almost right, So in
Speaker 1: a way like people have said to me, have you
Speaker 1: gone back to doing the freedom the wingsuiting or that,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I really can't wait to do that.
Speaker 1: But it's like it's not something you just pit dip
Speaker 1: in and out of. You know, it's a real lifestyle choice,
Speaker 1: and it's a commitment, and it's it's something that gives
Speaker 1: you excellence. And I think the so so trusting in
Speaker 1: that moment that everything you trusting myself. For me, it
Speaker 1: was about becoming capable, right in a way, like like
Speaker 1: learning to follow the protocols, learning to be present enough
Speaker 1: to take on board everything that's being told to me
Speaker 1: so that I can apply it to the moment that
Speaker 1: I'm in. So when I'm in the plane, I'm about
Speaker 1: to jump, and I'm really and I I uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I think the to be fair, I think the climbing.
Speaker 1: I got such a body mouth on the climber because
Speaker 1: I was so frustrated and terrified by the by the gear,
Speaker 1: by the nots, by like whether I died it right
Speaker 1: or whether the road was going to hold me or
Speaker 1: whether I was going to and mostly because actually I
Speaker 1: had Mo's life in my hands right like so, but
Speaker 1: it was I think becoming capable and having that like
Speaker 1: education and then being accountable for myself. So in the
Speaker 1: moment where the fear is really kicking and it's just
Speaker 1: trusting by kind of coming back to what everything I've
Speaker 1: learned from my practice was trusting your life, having faith
Speaker 1: in your life. I think faith is is so important,
Speaker 1: and I think misguided faith is sometimes so challenging for
Speaker 1: us as a as a as a species because it's
Speaker 1: led to so much heartbreak and conflict. But actually I
Speaker 1: really admire people of faith because most people of faith,
Speaker 1: if it's not misguided, are really doing everything they can.
Speaker 1: And because it's my what is practice, we'll trying to
Speaker 1: be respectful of all faith. You know. I kind of
Speaker 1: feel like I know my path is the right one.
Speaker 1: I wish everyone would join me on this, but I
Speaker 1: totally respect that everybody has their path, and I think
Speaker 1: that's what it comes down, right respect. So it's like
Speaker 1: a bit of the whole show was a bit of
Speaker 1: a human experiment for me, and I think the experiment
Speaker 1: and the lessons that I continually learned was a bit
Speaker 1: of like self respect, becoming capable trusting my life, and
Speaker 1: trusting that this was part of an important and necessary
Speaker 1: part of my life. And I, after all, I chosen
Speaker 1: to do it, you know, And I could find myself
Speaker 1: at times in these like super challenging physically challenging moments mentally,
Speaker 1: physically and emotionally they were all totally different. So, you know,
Speaker 1: like wingsuiting just was it's super unnatural to jump half
Speaker 1: a plane. And then I think what Luke said to
Speaker 1: me was that I'm probably the first person to have
Speaker 1: jumped at twenty six jumps, so twenty five jumps. I
Speaker 1: got my a license for skydiving, and my twenty sixth
Speaker 1: jump was in a wingsuit. But he had me on
Speaker 1: this trajection. But he knew from what he was watching,
Speaker 1: and you know, we were working every day for you know,
Speaker 1: a few not even that long, but he knew that
Speaker 1: I was capable to do so the free diving, I
Speaker 1: just didn't know if I was going to come back up.
Speaker 1: I was like, wait, what what if I because I
Speaker 1: had and I think I was emotionally really challenged by
Speaker 1: this idea, like respecting my life, you know, treasuring my
Speaker 1: life because I think in some ways in my youth,
Speaker 1: treasuring my life, valuing my life, understanding the value of life,
Speaker 1: and being grateful for it in a very profound way.
Speaker 1: Like I think I have, you know, a stadium of
Speaker 1: angels or Buddhas or however whoever you want to call them.
Speaker 1: But and we're climbing. It was like I'd find myself
Speaker 1: in these moments, as I said, I'd be like, I'd
Speaker 1: be like, I'm really having a hard time here, and
Speaker 1: I would with you know, I'd have I had this
Speaker 1: one of my assistants who became a producing partner, was
Speaker 1: working with for so long, who knew me so well.
Speaker 1: But I would just be like freaking out. She could
Speaker 1: see I was freaking out, but I was freaking out,
Speaker 1: but about something like while I wearing this T shirt?
Speaker 1: What does this T shirt mean? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: It was so so interesting how the mind, it's like
Speaker 1: you become you know what I mean instead of just
Speaker 1: getting in your you know, I became very I was
Speaker 1: like trying to control control the control the environment, control
Speaker 1: the things because I felt so out of control, like
Speaker 1: this T shirt is not the right teeth or whatever
Speaker 1: it might be. You know, it was like for me,
Speaker 1: it didn't It could have been anything, but it was
Speaker 1: like because I needed to control whatever I had possible,
Speaker 1: you know, on me, because I felt so kind of
Speaker 1: out of control in some ways so as a human
Speaker 1: and I felt like it was a human experiment. I
Speaker 1: was like, I was like, how much does it take
Speaker 1: for me to crack? You know, how much pressure before
Speaker 1: a and what does that look like? In some ways,
Speaker 1: So but in a way, like you know, that was
Speaker 1: the you know, I kept coming back to Amona cure.
Speaker 1: You know, you you what is meant for you is
Speaker 1: not going to go away, right, It's not. And this
Speaker 1: is but it's also was my first time in an
Speaker 1: unscripted world, right yea. You know, I think because of
Speaker 1: the nature of my upbringing, dyslexia and education, that was
Speaker 1: such a challenge. Although I got it all, did it all?
Speaker 1: This is trusting yeah my heart, right, you're trusting your experience, right,
Speaker 1: I mean that's what you've done so well. You've like
Speaker 1: you're able to communicate from the heart listen, be present
Speaker 1: and you know what I mean, and come in with
Speaker 1: the with the points that like like oh wow, you're
Speaker 1: you're actually absorbing and taking that on and I think
Speaker 1: and sharing and putting a message out. But it's sometimes
Speaker 1: hard for people, you know, especially I think.
Speaker 2: You know when you're younger, Yeah, I mean, I think
Speaker 2: when I'm listening to you right.
Speaker 1: Nowgens are great, my mind is firing good.
Speaker 2: I'm glad. We'll get you another. You finished it, though,
Speaker 2: and you want another when I'm listening to you right now.
Speaker 2: And I really appreciate you going there, because, of course
Speaker 2: the extent that is hard, but I love how you
Speaker 2: boiled it down to that idea of trying to control
Speaker 2: the little you think you can control in the midst
Speaker 2: of the fact that you can't control of this. And
Speaker 2: it's interesting how that is such a great metaphor for
Speaker 2: life somehow, because we're all trying to control everything we
Speaker 2: can control and what we can't control, not recognizing that
Speaker 2: so much is outside of our control, and that makes
Speaker 2: us in life feel helpless, and it can often make
Speaker 2: us retreat and hide and disappear. But when you're climbing
Speaker 2: a mountain, you can't disappear, like, you can't retreat from that,
Speaker 2: right It's almost like you have to sit in that
Speaker 2: discomfort and you have to sit with that emotion, which
Speaker 2: is actually what real life is demanding of us. But
Speaker 2: we find a way to kind of hide it, push
Speaker 2: it away, deal with it, and so it's it's the
Speaker 2: most physical real way I remember when and this is
Speaker 2: why I think you're hopefully the show will you know,
Speaker 2: encourage people to do. We all have something that's uncomfortable
Speaker 2: for us, whether it's internal or external, and I think
Speaker 2: everyone needs a friend who encourages them to do some
Speaker 2: extreme sports now and again, my wife needs less encouragement
Speaker 2: than I do. As life has gone on, I've become
Speaker 2: a bit more reserved. And I had a friend a
Speaker 2: couple of years ago who made me do skydiving, who
Speaker 2: made me do crazy things with him, and I was
Speaker 2: really grateful for that because it made me realize how
Speaker 2: many blocks I had up here that I was unaware of.
Speaker 2: I thought I'd conquered so many blocks, but there are
Speaker 2: still so many, so much lack of trust and so
Speaker 2: much lack of that feeling of oh, actually, I can
Speaker 2: sit in discomfort. I was almost trying to get away
Speaker 2: from discomfort because at one point in my life I
Speaker 2: had put myself through so much of it and now
Speaker 2: just wanted to be in a comfortable space.
Speaker 1: Which is fair fair.
Speaker 2: But one thing you say in the docuseries kind of
Speaker 2: in the beginning was this idea of you say, being
Speaker 2: on the edge makes me feel most alive. But then
Speaker 2: at the same time, I see you as someone who
Speaker 2: really values the little things day to day, and obviously
Speaker 2: with your Buddhist practice is mindful and present. How do
Speaker 2: you reconcile the two, because you know, if you're feeling
Speaker 2: all this adrenaline and this extreme sport and that makes
Speaker 2: you feel a lo but then how do you also
Speaker 2: feel alive in the tiny moments and maybe being with
Speaker 2: your kids or yeah, yeah, yeah, being with Blue as
Speaker 2: we just your beautiful dog that just with.
Speaker 1: That thank you, Yeah, I think, you know, it's such
Speaker 1: good questions. I think to let two things, and I
Speaker 1: want to come back to that question. But I think
Speaker 1: in a way like what are the parts of the show?
Speaker 1: Is like, what did it take for me to be
Speaker 1: remarkably present? Look, I'm one of the most privileged people.
Speaker 1: I consider myself the experiences that I've had in the
Speaker 1: world in life. I feel just so grateful all the time.
Speaker 1: I wake up feeling grateful, and you know, I feel
Speaker 1: you know, that partly that's my practice to give them
Speaker 1: me the opportunity. But for some people it's like, look,
Speaker 1: just getting up from the couch and go into the kitchen,
Speaker 1: what does it take for them to do that? I
Speaker 1: know through COVID, which was the idea, was that what
Speaker 1: does it take for that person just to go to
Speaker 1: the park, just step outside, take your shoes off, socks off,
Speaker 1: stand in the grass and look at the trees and
Speaker 1: just that maybe all it takes, but it may be
Speaker 1: so challenging for one person. For that person, So like, yes,
Speaker 1: for me, you know, when I was kind of raw
Speaker 1: docking it with my all my kind of add and
Speaker 1: just things happening, I was just like in it. I
Speaker 1: say that because when I say raw doy, I mean
Speaker 1: I was just like I've subsequently found like a really
Speaker 1: amazing like peptide, which is fantastic. That's helped me really
Speaker 1: kind of connect my thoughts at times because sometimes it's
Speaker 1: really disjointed. But in a way I love that about
Speaker 1: my thinking because it kind of is sporadic. But for
Speaker 1: some people, as I said, the hope for the show
Speaker 1: for me was like it took me okay for me,
Speaker 1: who you know, arguably throughout my life has really you know,
Speaker 1: loved the thrill. Like if I'm going really fast, either
Speaker 1: on a motorcycle or in a car or whatever, it
Speaker 1: maybe I feel like I'm more focused, Like I'm more
Speaker 1: likely to have an accident at thirty miles an hour
Speaker 1: than sixty miles an hour, you know, because I'm just
Speaker 1: there's a I switched into some other mode. And it's
Speaker 1: kind of true for everything I've done in my life,
Speaker 1: Like if it's really up against me, then I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna step up in a whole other way. Like
Speaker 1: for example, all the Rings, where I was like my
Speaker 1: first movie really and I'm with Ian McKellen and Ian
Speaker 1: Holm and Christopher Lee and Viego Mortenson and even Elijah
Speaker 1: who I'd seen the movies, and you know, like these
Speaker 1: amazing actors, all of whom had so much experience, and
Speaker 1: it was an amazing gift, but it was also like, okay,
Speaker 1: step up, you know, and the blessing of that. So
Speaker 1: I think you kind of take that high of these
Speaker 1: insane things that you're doing, but it's all really like
Speaker 1: relevant to the Like sometimes I can wake up in
Speaker 1: the morning and I just can't figure out even with
Speaker 1: way to go. You know, I'm like I can feel
Speaker 1: like I'm like, wait what, I'm so grateful, but wait
Speaker 1: what am I My brain is like it's like trying
Speaker 1: to bring it online, and it can and it can
Speaker 1: be really overwhelming in terms of you know, so it's
Speaker 1: like back to chance, back to breath, back to presence,
Speaker 1: back to stillness, back to gratitude, back to like I
Speaker 1: had this. I think I think I had this kind
Speaker 1: of really remarkable plant journey, medicine journey, and you know,
Speaker 1: I set an intention around the feminine because we touched
Speaker 1: on my mother briefly and I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: my mother gave me this, which is wonderful, and loved
Speaker 1: me ouheartedly and was in boarding school at the age
Speaker 1: of four, so it was like she's didn't really have
Speaker 1: a full you know of what nurture and things was,
Speaker 1: but she was so love is and remains so loving
Speaker 1: and a great opportunity for me to continue to grow
Speaker 1: and evolve. But I set an intention before. I was like,
Speaker 1: because I wanted to ask Katie to Marny and I
Speaker 1: was like, I just need to kind of check in
Speaker 1: and I'd never done, you know, this particular medicine and
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to just so I flew
Speaker 1: somewhere to meet this and I'd set this intention around
Speaker 1: the feminine right, and I was like and basically the
Speaker 1: three points that came out, I was like, am I clean?
Speaker 1: Am I good? Here? Can I do move forward with this?
Speaker 1: Because it's important to me to know that I'm clear right,
Speaker 1: And so it's with aya right. So you get this
Speaker 1: feeling of and somebody had explained to me that you
Speaker 1: had this amazing feminine energy coming at you. And I
Speaker 1: think you're supposed to do three carps and I took five. Well,
Speaker 1: I wanted to have this, this this I was just waiting.
Speaker 1: I was there and I didn't I was just on
Speaker 1: a couch with this amazing room of musicians and this
Speaker 1: wonderful guide and he just looked at me at six
Speaker 1: in the morning and he was he had been journeying
Speaker 1: with me, and he was like, you want more? And
Speaker 1: I was like one more? And then I had this
Speaker 1: like sensation of lightness and this I think basically it's
Speaker 1: like our minds, right, You're like you're exploring aspects of
Speaker 1: your mind that the neuropathways that you just haven't like
Speaker 1: looked at right, you understand that it's the map of
Speaker 1: your mind. Right, that's kind of and you've disconnected your
Speaker 1: ego enough to be humble enough to take on and
Speaker 1: I and this message was, well, first of all, just
Speaker 1: be grateful. Look at your life, right. Second of all,
Speaker 1: you don't have an issue with women, you know, look
Speaker 1: at your life. Wonderful women in your life. And even
Speaker 1: if even if there are aspects of women in your
Speaker 1: life that you have, it's all been part of your evolution.
Speaker 1: But maybe the feminine in you, it was like she
Speaker 1: was you know, there was this there was just it
Speaker 1: was like, so maybe you could nurture a bit more
Speaker 1: of the feminine in you. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: but it was like nurture I guess the creative artistics
Speaker 1: side that just like pondering and poetical and things that
Speaker 1: I hadn't And then but the last one that I
Speaker 1: remember that was so it was like whenever you're with
Speaker 1: somebody and maybe the last time you see them again,
Speaker 1: you just don't know, So make it great. What have
Speaker 1: you got to lose? You may never see this person again.
Speaker 1: We don't know. Life is like, you don't know, So
Speaker 1: just make it great. Because I at a young age,
Speaker 1: I'd had a real challenge. I'd have people come at
Speaker 1: me consistently, right, and I'd be like, and I'd be
Speaker 1: in whatever mental state or moment that I was in,
Speaker 1: and sometimes I'm just like, you know, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: and and all they want is this moment, and it's
Speaker 1: so easy for me to just go, hey, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't sure, yeah, here, no problem, and then carry on.
Speaker 1: But sometimes it was just like, you know, I could
Speaker 1: it felt like almost acid because I was just it
Speaker 1: didn't what it represented at a different time in my
Speaker 1: life was a restriction, right, and I wanted to feel free.
Speaker 1: But I think that moment of that thing for me
Speaker 1: was like you may never see this person again. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Life is not built like that, So just
Speaker 1: make it great. It's not hard, right, or at least
Speaker 1: leave it with that, you know. So I think that
Speaker 1: was the did I answer the question?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean so much. You gave me
Speaker 2: so much more to unback there. I love it. I
Speaker 2: mean on that point, I do think if we lived
Speaker 2: in a world where you genuinely believed that any moment
Speaker 2: with anyone could be your last. Yeah, the way you'd
Speaker 2: speak to them and the way you'd look at them,
Speaker 2: the way you listen to them, just transform. And I'm
Speaker 2: sure you have friends. I have friends who've lost parents, partners, people,
Speaker 2: and they all regret their last conversation with them because
Speaker 2: it was conflict or it was an argument, or it
Speaker 2: was a debate that they.
Speaker 1: Didn't need to any conflict.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they and they didn't know that that was
Speaker 2: going to be the last time. And I've spoken to
Speaker 2: friends who've held that for so much longer because it
Speaker 2: becomes such a hard release to know that you could
Speaker 2: have should have, would have said something, to have done
Speaker 2: it differently, might have done it differently, but going back
Speaker 2: to what was revealed to you, and and even that,
Speaker 2: I mean, I look at relationships as such a area
Speaker 2: where so many of our fears are brought to the surface.
Speaker 2: I found this with my own wife, Like we've been
Speaker 2: together for eleven years and married for eight, and it's this,
Speaker 2: It's it's being comfortable or with the idea that she
Speaker 2: is also the deepest mirror I'll ever have, because no
Speaker 2: one in the world sees all of my flaws, all
Speaker 2: of my mistakes, all the moments when I'm not perfect.
Speaker 2: You know, I always joke about how like my wife
Speaker 2: knows whether I meditated this morning or not, Like no
Speaker 2: one else does, but my wife knows, and my wife
Speaker 2: knows whether it was quality or whether it's distracted. My
Speaker 2: wife knows. You know, my wife knows whether I left
Speaker 2: my socks on the floor, you know, whatever, just whether
Speaker 2: it's silly or deep, it's it's she is in a position.
Speaker 2: And when your partner doesn't abuse that authority and doesn't
Speaker 2: use it as a form of control, but actually reflects
Speaker 2: that some care and compassion, it can be a really
Speaker 2: it's almost like you can't grow without it. Have you?
Speaker 2: What have you? What scared you about relationships? And what? Like?
Speaker 2: You said you had no problem with women, that wasn't
Speaker 2: a thing. But what was revealed to you in your relationship?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: What's been revealed to you in your life? And is
Speaker 2: a better question.
Speaker 1: I think I'm constantly learning to let go because anything
Speaker 1: that I tried to hold on to, whether it's good
Speaker 1: or bad, doesn't serve me, not in the relationship, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't really serve either of us. And that's really
Speaker 1: hard to keep letting go and to keep letting her go,
Speaker 1: you know, the idea of because I think when you're
Speaker 1: in a deeply loving, committed relationship. You want to you
Speaker 1: want to control or own or have or and you know,
Speaker 1: even just letting go of ideas of how things should
Speaker 1: be or the idea of what intimacy or intimate moments
Speaker 1: are to you versus them, or how you know, whatever
Speaker 1: it may be, because everybody, because you've chosen that person,
Speaker 1: you're on a journey with that person. You know you're
Speaker 1: going to learn this lesson. And if you've chosen that person,
Speaker 1: then that's the person you're going to learn that lesson with,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean that's the opportunity, right.
Speaker 2: That's rue. Yeah, that really resonates. I feel like that's
Speaker 2: why we'd rather let go of the person and have
Speaker 2: a new six month period with someone new, because you
Speaker 2: don't have to let go in that six months, Like
Speaker 2: that six months is almost full of holding on and
Speaker 2: every idea and every hope and possibility remains intact, like
Speaker 2: you don't have to dismantle it or question it or
Speaker 2: break it down. But you are so right that the
Speaker 2: amount of misconceptions I've had to let go of as
Speaker 2: we spend more time together.
Speaker 1: And I think it's going to change every day, right, absolutely,
Speaker 1: It's like every day you choose, I choose you because
Speaker 1: also you know you're life is changing. Right seven years
Speaker 1: from nowsh wecome completely different human. You have no idea, right,
Speaker 1: you know you can. I mean you you clearly have
Speaker 1: been around each other and you do probably know have
Speaker 1: a sense, but we don't know. You don't the same
Speaker 1: thing as like I may never see that person again
Speaker 1: every day it may you may never see that version
Speaker 1: of that person again, or you know, whatever it may be.
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, we're just you know, we have we
Speaker 1: I'm forced I seize the opportunity every day to grow.
Speaker 1: And as you see from the show, I'll never choose
Speaker 1: the past, the easy path, you know, like it's just
Speaker 1: not who I am. And you know, in some ways
Speaker 1: my relationship is the greatest opportunity for my continual growth.
Speaker 1: And you know, and I know we both see it
Speaker 1: that way. So that's how we grow and we do
Speaker 1: and she will not you know, she'll hold me accountable
Speaker 1: and I'll do the same. And sometimes you know, you'll
Speaker 1: be confronted by your own self, you know, And I
Speaker 1: think you know, trust right, trusting your path, your journey,
Speaker 1: your faith that this is what's meant for you and
Speaker 1: then you know, the universe will take care of the rest.
Speaker 1: And making mistakes and going okay, I did that, was yeah,
Speaker 1: I did that. Sorry, I I sort of am like,
Speaker 1: there's no yeah, I think I think I've you know,
Speaker 1: seen how learning more like the mistake. I think, like
Speaker 1: I think very early on in life. Actually, really I
Speaker 1: didn't enjoy making mistakes. Does anybody I don't know. Maybe
Speaker 1: some people really do, but I didn't. It wasn't comfortable with.
Speaker 2: Hard to find someone who.
Speaker 1: And yet anyone, any sage you're worthy will tell you
Speaker 1: it's not. It's only through mistakes that you right. So
Speaker 1: it's like going, okay, you know, like that's where the
Speaker 1: where the that's where the rich stuff is, that's where
Speaker 1: you're gonna. So I just try to keep growing and
Speaker 1: you know, accepting and you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how does it feel to introduce your Buddhist practices
Speaker 2: and teachings to the kids, Like how does that work?
Speaker 2: I'm fascinated by?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I really I just I say name to
Speaker 1: Daisy and she said she's sometimes on the other side
Speaker 1: of the world on a movie should be like I
Speaker 1: say Nami. Then I think and Flynn chanted, you know,
Speaker 1: from that I did the same with him, and I
Speaker 1: don't like so Flynn's mother has a beautiful faith in life,
Speaker 1: I think, and I really respect it. And I don't
Speaker 1: challenge any of the things his views that he's obviously
Speaker 1: imbued through his mother, and you know, I I we
Speaker 1: we love to go and walks. I love to go
Speaker 1: and walks with my son, and and we talk a lot.
Speaker 1: I try to, you know, and at different stages. Look,
Speaker 1: he's thirteen now, so it's almost like Dad is getting
Speaker 1: pushed aside. And I kind of know what that feels like.
Speaker 1: I was the same, you know, So I'm not I
Speaker 1: try not to take it personal. And I miss him,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I just text him. I love him
Speaker 1: and I miss him. But we have these wonderful walks
Speaker 1: and talks, and I kind of just throughout whatever we're saying,
Speaker 1: I try to keep reinforcing just the the undercurrent philosophy
Speaker 1: and thinking of my practice and which is just you know,
Speaker 1: are you are you respecting? Are you? Are you you
Speaker 1: know if there is that kid in class who's not
Speaker 1: you know, are you are you supporting that kid that's
Speaker 1: not getting the support, because that's where you'll find a richness,
Speaker 1: right because I kind of like, I know that's in
Speaker 1: his heart as well. I see it. And funny he
Speaker 1: said to me, Dad, you know, I'm really good at
Speaker 1: just bluffing. And I think, like, but this is him
Speaker 1: at thirteen, you know, flexing a bit in this way
Speaker 1: of trying to like trying to kick And he was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but Dad, I just knew that would that would be
Speaker 1: the thing that people would have preved. Like, good, well,
Speaker 1: just keep working that then, because even if you're thinking
Speaker 1: we'll try and make you say you're going to do,
Speaker 1: just keep working that, even if it's even if you
Speaker 1: think it's like you're putting on a show, fake it
Speaker 1: till you make it. You know, if you just keep
Speaker 1: doing that, just keep trying to do the right thing,
Speaker 1: and eventually you'll start to realize what the right thing is.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: But I love to walk and talk with him, and
Speaker 1: I I just don't overwhelm him with it because in
Speaker 1: my faith, I believe by saying, nam your cure, say to.
Speaker 4: Me nam namr who mir ho renge renge cure cure,
Speaker 4: nammoho renge cure nam cure.
Speaker 1: So by saying this once you never have to say
Speaker 1: it again, you protected seven generations in your past, seven
Speaker 1: generations in your future.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that gift.
Speaker 1: That's so I believe that, deeply believed. Sometimes I will
Speaker 1: set walk up to somebody and say just say noam
Speaker 1: your name, get youll just once and I'll tell them
Speaker 1: that and then I'll walk away whatever, and it'd be
Speaker 1: like I believe that. It's like finding a needling there.
Speaker 1: I either hate that and if you so, you never
Speaker 1: have to do it again. You've done it seven generations time.
Speaker 1: And if you ever good and if you ever and
Speaker 1: if it was something that resonated with you at the
Speaker 1: time or moment, then great. You know, I encourage people
Speaker 1: to do that. It's not you know, I'm like, this
Speaker 1: is how you do it, just it's not. It's not
Speaker 1: a meditational process, right, like a meditation I do as well.
Speaker 1: I have a meditation TM practice. But for me, it's
Speaker 1: like yoga for the mind. You know. It's like when
Speaker 1: I'm really stressed out or like you know that too
Speaker 1: much coffee?
Speaker 2: Do you get it seems so? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I'm nah. I'm sitting here opposite Jay Shaddy. Do you
Speaker 1: want me to show you the other side of never?
Speaker 1: I mean, like you can see you'll see the climbing episode.
Speaker 2: You'll see that.
Speaker 1: The party mouth and the I'm like, no, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I redline. I'm like I really like mostly I'm like
Speaker 1: I can really you know, I can be in the
Speaker 1: red like and that's something that I just try to navigate.
Speaker 1: But I like that. I embrace it. I accept it absolutely.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? It's like I can
Speaker 1: be on in that space, just like it's like the
Speaker 1: difference between driving at thirty or sixty. It's like, obviously
Speaker 1: I would, you know, God forbid you want to observe
Speaker 1: the speed limit because there are children and things. But like,
Speaker 1: I know what you know, So sometimes I can be
Speaker 1: really intense. How have you emotionally?
Speaker 2: How have you accepted the parts of yourself that most
Speaker 2: of us judge, criticize, or feel uncomfortable, granted that they're
Speaker 2: not affecting other people.
Speaker 1: As from chancing one, I think because of that practice,
Speaker 1: I'm constantly looking at that. But I think I think
Speaker 1: it's time, honestly, and I think it's experience because the
Speaker 1: experiences have taught me like that. You know, shame is
Speaker 1: not my friend. Guilt. Shame if you spend any if
Speaker 1: you if you overly if you spend too much time
Speaker 1: in that negative thought pattern. You know, we're light energy,
Speaker 1: we like little planets, right, but if you broke our
Speaker 1: bodies down. I was having this conversation with somebody who's
Speaker 1: giving me a message. She's just this amazing woman, and
Speaker 1: she was like, but we like little we're like little galaxy.
Speaker 1: If you actually dissolved us, the trillions and billions of
Speaker 1: you know, you know, cells and everything, it's like a
Speaker 1: little it's like a little galaxy. So we're all little
Speaker 1: galaxies going around the planet right in a way. So
Speaker 1: all of that energy, which as you know and talked
Speaker 1: about and many bodies, it's like it's whatever you're saying,
Speaker 1: you become right. As we all know, these all these
Speaker 1: old adages are so true. So it's not like but
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's I think for me, it's like the
Speaker 1: shame game doesn't work. I don't want to I don't
Speaker 1: want to receive it from anyone. I mean, I did this.
Speaker 1: I had this amazing experience and I went six years ago,
Speaker 1: maybe seven years ago, now seven years ago, more than
Speaker 1: seven years ago, nearly eight years ago. I went to
Speaker 1: the Hoffmann Institute, which is just wonderful, and it was
Speaker 1: I'd had a really I've been seeing Kay for a
Speaker 1: year and I've broken up and then we'd sort of, no,
Speaker 1: we hadn't actually we've broken up yet. I've been seeing
Speaker 1: her for for a little while, and then we had
Speaker 1: broken up and we got back together, you know, the
Speaker 1: young love weirdness of trying to find things. But I
Speaker 1: had been triggered into this really unique pattern of behavior
Speaker 1: that I felt i'd inherited from my mom, right, this
Speaker 1: thing of like seeing I'm here, you know, with my mom,
Speaker 1: Mama over here, you know, I think you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, and trying to get the attention right. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, one of the worst years internally
Speaker 1: I can ever remember, because I felt like I was
Speaker 1: playing a part instead of being a part. And it
Speaker 1: was just because I had so many feelings and I
Speaker 1: was so and I was in water that it was
Speaker 1: just uncharted. So a dear friend of mine, Buddhist, had
Speaker 1: an actor friend from New York, had had suggested that
Speaker 1: I do this two years ago and I hadn't picked
Speaker 1: up on it. James has seen this amazing actor, human,
Speaker 1: just wonderful person, and I was like, I sort of
Speaker 1: remembered when I we'd had this breakup, and I'd remembered
Speaker 1: I'd taken my passport, left everything else and walked into
Speaker 1: New York because we'd been in New York. And then
Speaker 1: I was like, got on a plane home. But before
Speaker 1: I got on a plane home, I went to his
Speaker 1: house because it was like five in the morning when
Speaker 1: we've had this rip roaring ard again, and I was like,
Speaker 1: took my passport and walked out of the door, and
Speaker 1: I was like, and he talked about it, and so
Speaker 1: I did this course and I left with these three
Speaker 1: thinking and it was it was a wonderful week where
Speaker 1: you don't have your phone, you don't have the email
Speaker 1: you have, so you have no connection to the outside
Speaker 1: world really and you don't and people, you know, obviously
Speaker 1: I was me, but I had this nobody's there for that,
Speaker 1: so it's really people are on there own. They're all
Speaker 1: in their own form of need. So I was wearing
Speaker 1: like a name tag that was my childhood name or whatever.
Speaker 1: And then I did seven days of like I guess,
Speaker 1: kind of like a group therapy, and I felt like
Speaker 1: three years of therapy in seven days in a way,
Speaker 1: and they take you're on this beautiful journey through these
Speaker 1: seven days where you have like a Thanksgiving dinner or
Speaker 1: a Christmas dinner, a birthday and a whole thing from
Speaker 1: It's like, it's beautiful the way it's constructed. And I
Speaker 1: came out with this thinking and I talked to James
Speaker 1: at the time about this as well of feeling safe,
Speaker 1: seen and celebrated, I want to feel safe, so in
Speaker 1: terms of my relationship, so with self first, right, So
Speaker 1: if I look in the mirror, I feel safe? Do
Speaker 1: I feel safe with you today? Do I feel seen
Speaker 1: by you? Am I kind of observing myself? And do
Speaker 1: I feel celebrated?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: But really it's for the people in my life, like
Speaker 1: do I feel safe with this person? Do I feel
Speaker 1: seen by this person? And am I feeling celebrated? And
Speaker 1: can I do that for them? Obviously? Right, it's a
Speaker 1: it's a it's a mirror. So if I'm feeling that way,
Speaker 1: then you're good. It's a green light. And if I'm not,
Speaker 1: then I'm going to just step back, take pause until
Speaker 1: I can feel that way. And if I can't feel
Speaker 1: that way, then maybe life in the universe will take
Speaker 1: us on different trajectories. But whilst I feel that way,
Speaker 1: So safety and celebrated was something that really made me
Speaker 1: kind of go. I came back into my life and
Speaker 1: into my relationship after this, and then I said we separated.
Speaker 1: It was interesting and I was like, that's tough. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is what's meant. You know, this is some years
Speaker 1: ago now, but this this stickiness that we had this
Speaker 1: connection and she was never really not a part of
Speaker 1: my the walls, and she would reach out in weird
Speaker 1: ways like Instagram or whatever, and I'd be like processing,
Speaker 1: and I was like, and then I made a sort
Speaker 1: of decision because I had this safe, scene, celebrated thing,
Speaker 1: not to see her and as she would and then
Speaker 1: she's she actually did this this Hoffman as well and
Speaker 1: had an amazing experience herself, and so we just kind
Speaker 1: of I think it was like it created a foundation.
Speaker 1: So we're constantly sort of bouncing off this thing. And
Speaker 1: sometimes the foundation is really rocky, of course, and sometimes
Speaker 1: I don't know, is this are we is the universe?
Speaker 1: Are we still going? I get? I gave her this
Speaker 1: picture of a tree, you know, and I was like,
Speaker 1: and it was it was this beautiful. I bought it
Speaker 1: in India, I think, but it was this this these
Speaker 1: two trees growing as one. I was like, this is
Speaker 1: this is what it should be as long as we
Speaker 1: can trance. The branches can go all over the place,
Speaker 1: but the roots and the and the and the base
Speaker 1: of the tree is the trunk is growing together. You know.
Speaker 1: It's the it's the pillars of the temple, right, need
Speaker 1: them to stand strong together so that you can hold
Speaker 1: the that you know, hold that. But I yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's been a yeah, that's great criteria.
Speaker 2: I like that safe scene and celebrated. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 2: a beautiful way of checking and connecting wavelength. Yes, the
Speaker 2: visual you just painted right now of the two trees
Speaker 2: feels perfect. Like that visual just resonated so strongly.
Speaker 1: Sometimes people are not not for that as well. Though,
Speaker 1: sometimes they're not ready for that. She like I it
Speaker 1: can be really overwhelming. It can be really overwhelming. All
Speaker 1: of your good intention, right, all of your desire for
Speaker 1: the greatest outcome can be super intimidating and overwhelming, depending
Speaker 1: on whether your wife is ready in that day, in
Speaker 1: that moment, and as we as we know from you know,
Speaker 1: the remarkable you know, I think I had this. I
Speaker 1: thought I was like when I had Daisy by daughter,
Speaker 1: I was like I mean, I feel like every man
Speaker 1: should have a daughter before they get married in a way,
Speaker 1: because it's like you see every emotion under the sun
Speaker 1: in the split second, and it's like and you have
Speaker 1: nothing but love because you're there. There's no judgment, there's
Speaker 1: just like I'm just like marveling at her explosion of
Speaker 1: emotion and she'll be like, no, daddy, no dad, Mummy,
Speaker 1: I want And I'm like, if i'd been in, you know,
Speaker 1: a partner, a reflection of a partner doing that could
Speaker 1: have really messed me up at different times. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: we what see me? Look, look look at me, Look
Speaker 1: at me. I'm over here, mummy, I'm over here. You know,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be, you know, our patterns from childhood,
Speaker 1: whatever that may be. And I like and I'm like,
Speaker 1: and it's in a way, it's like, you know, so
Speaker 1: I can have those, you know, with a powerful human
Speaker 1: you know that that I've chosen in some ways, every
Speaker 1: day it's like gott to keep leveling up and trying
Speaker 1: and making mistakes and going okay, no, that didn't work.
Speaker 1: All I'm going to do this and that's no, don't
Speaker 1: do that. You might you know, but you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: It's very interesting, isn't it. I think the masculine in
Speaker 1: in in relation to the feminine, you know, m hm,
Speaker 1: like my mind map again, you know, like I'd set
Speaker 1: an intention around the thing and I was like, oh no,
Speaker 1: it's not women. It's like the feminine within you. It's like,
Speaker 1: but in this world that we live in, it's like
Speaker 1: trying to find the the the right level because it's
Speaker 1: not like obvious, you know, it's not there's no it's
Speaker 1: you know, I think people are always you know, how
Speaker 1: do you how do you have the right balance. It's
Speaker 1: like it's like it's like sometimes you're just really you know,
Speaker 1: mass overly overly, you know, edgy, and sometimes you just
Speaker 1: like you can be that you can hold that big
Speaker 1: space because you because in your mind you're capable. But
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's just choosing, right, just keep choosing.
Speaker 1: You choose life, and you choose to you choose to
Speaker 1: go on a journey, and you choose to keep it real,
Speaker 1: and you choose to.
Speaker 2: For me at least, yeah, I feel what you said
Speaker 2: about like for me, my sister is like four and
Speaker 2: a half years younger than me or something, and I
Speaker 2: feel like I remember holding her when she was born.
Speaker 2: My last year, I got to walk her down the
Speaker 2: isle at her wedding like and it was I've always
Speaker 2: my nickname for my sister's kid because I've treated it
Speaker 2: like my daughter since she was born, and she's always
Speaker 2: felt that way to me. And you're so right, Like
Speaker 2: my wife will always say to me, Gosh, when you're
Speaker 2: around your sister, just you know, completely different, and it's
Speaker 2: it's that fatherly brother.
Speaker 1: Does she like that my sister know your your wife? Does?
Speaker 2: She does? She finds it adorable, She finds it.
Speaker 1: Lean into that more. Is that not not really not
Speaker 1: so much, it's just like no, like.
Speaker 2: She finds that adorable. But she sees what capacity I
Speaker 2: had and what you're saying that being that bigger.
Speaker 1: Daughter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you have it for that love and you're
Speaker 2: so right that when you've been able to experience that,
Speaker 2: it's so much easier to understand. I always feel like
Speaker 2: I was raised by my mum and tried to raise
Speaker 2: my sister the best as I could, and it was
Speaker 2: almost like that's made me a better husband than I
Speaker 2: would have been because I had a different experience with
Speaker 2: women that I wouldn't have had if I didn't have
Speaker 2: a younger sister and I had a younger brother, or
Speaker 2: whatever it may be, And so that resonates very strongly.
Speaker 2: But also this idea of I've seen myself act with
Speaker 2: my wife, with the people I love in a way
Speaker 2: that I don't like at all, and I've seen myself
Speaker 2: act in the best way possible. And I'll oscillate between
Speaker 2: the two depending on where I'm at on any given day.
Speaker 2: And it's what you said earlier that it takes two
Speaker 2: people to be able to let go, takes two people
Speaker 2: to be able to forgive. It takes two people to
Speaker 2: be able to not over amplify or underreact or overreact.
Speaker 2: And you're constantly playing in that space if you want
Speaker 2: a loyal, committed, long term relationship which has very different
Speaker 2: positives than a short, easy, quick moment, and we'd fix yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: And it's almost like it's what you said, it's choosing
Speaker 2: what you want.
Speaker 1: Once you decide your We have that idea in my practice.
Speaker 1: Once it's like in Sense discusses, you know, once you decide,
Speaker 1: your whole world will move in that direction. Once you decide,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, everything is set up for
Speaker 1: the universe to support that decision, but you must decide
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. And then if the wheels fall
Speaker 1: off along the way, you know, you realize that you've
Speaker 1: decided and there are mistakes, but then you set about fixing.
Speaker 1: And I you know, I wrote this like a mission
Speaker 1: statement when I when I first met her, because I
Speaker 1: wanted to. I wanted to try to articulate all these
Speaker 1: crazy feelings that I was having at the time, which
Speaker 1: was like a reveal that I hadn't had in a
Speaker 1: long time in somehow. And one of the things that
Speaker 1: I said in this like p this this, this this
Speaker 1: letter I wrote her was you know, I want us
Speaker 1: to We're going to bring our little kids out, you know,
Speaker 1: are inner child We're gonna bring out, and I'll dook
Speaker 1: it out with you as much as you like, so
Speaker 1: long as we just promised to keep getting up, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's like if we don't get up, I need
Speaker 1: to know that, like you'll do it out, I'll do
Speaker 1: it out, but that we'll get up, you know, and
Speaker 1: keep you know, because that's because it doesn't matter about
Speaker 1: you've got, You're going to go down. People are going
Speaker 1: to make mistakes, things are going to happen. Life is
Speaker 1: set for that. You know, it's not you know, it's
Speaker 1: not meant to be. The opportunities, as we said at
Speaker 1: the beginning, for growth, don't come through an easy path.
Speaker 1: They can't. They're not when the other thing's going great.
Speaker 1: It's when the ships hit the fan, right, And that's when,
Speaker 1: you know. So I kind of feel like I'm constantly like,
Speaker 1: when's the next one? Yeah, next, next, lesson, when's the
Speaker 1: next one coming? But you know, how much how much
Speaker 1: you know? How much humility do I need to learn today?
Speaker 1: You know? Or what do I need to do? And
Speaker 1: what choices have I made that have led to this?
Speaker 1: And how am I going to own that?
Speaker 2: The difference? What's the difference? We do that? Because I
Speaker 2: resonated with that. I always say to people that when
Speaker 2: things are going bad, work hard, and when things are
Speaker 2: going good, work harder. Right, You're always pushing yourself to learn, grow,
Speaker 2: evolve more when actually things are good, because a lot
Speaker 2: of us we do the opposite. When things are good,
Speaker 2: we get complacent, we get lost. What is the difference
Speaker 2: for you between that mindset getting exhausting versus energizing? Because
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people would say, gosh, if
Speaker 2: I'm always having to figure out what to learn and
Speaker 2: what message and from the universe and my partner. That's exhausting. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it seems like you're energized by that, which is
Speaker 2: what you see in the show, Like you're energized by
Speaker 2: the idea that there's more to learn. What's what's the difference?
Speaker 2: What have you found? How are you able to sustain
Speaker 2: that level of wanting to evolve and grow?
Speaker 1: I think I think that I just came in that way.
Speaker 2: That's just how you're built.
Speaker 1: I think I came in that way. I think we
Speaker 1: all come in different Right. When I reflect on all
Speaker 1: of the opportunities for growth in my life, they all
Speaker 1: reinforce this idea that this is what I need to
Speaker 1: learn at this time. Right in retrospect, when you're younger
Speaker 1: and in that moment of crisis, whatever that may be,
Speaker 1: And listen, I didn't have a mobile phones that I
Speaker 1: was twenty, right, But there is a window of time
Speaker 1: in my life which is almost like a void because
Speaker 1: of the immense pressure and experience that life was throwing
Speaker 1: at me at such a rapid pace that I literally
Speaker 1: can like there are blacks almost feel like right like
Speaker 1: I can't even like my friend brest friends will go.
Speaker 1: But remember when we went to Japan on that press,
Speaker 1: I was like we went to Japan together, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, so you know, but yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that's it. I think. I think I think saying at
Speaker 1: a young age with chant with a practice like mine
Speaker 1: helped me as well to recognize because constantly reinforcing this
Speaker 1: idea of opportunities through obstacles or opportunities, and even when
Speaker 1: you're in it and it's nightmare, Oh these exams, this
Speaker 1: thing this you know, this boyfriend or this girlfriend or
Speaker 1: this situation. This, Like I think it's always simplify as well,
Speaker 1: steady like life, you know is you know, at least
Speaker 1: my experience is like I love the high octane, right,
Speaker 1: and I've been at the at that depth. I love
Speaker 1: the depth as well. But when I'm steady, when I'm
Speaker 1: just when I just like come back to the simple, right,
Speaker 1: simplify because sometimes you just need a walk, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, You just need to go outdoors. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you just need to look at the sky, take a
Speaker 1: deep breath. Sometimes it's just and it's a few little
Speaker 1: touchstones that you can create for yourself, you know, so
Speaker 1: that you have tools, right, create your own toolbox. And
Speaker 1: I think that's what I got from just so many
Speaker 1: different things, whether it's Hoffmann or a plant journey, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so many, or an encounter with somebody important, or my
Speaker 1: relationship to Disacovacade and my mentor or And I think
Speaker 1: it's also we're wired. We're all wired differently, so like
Speaker 1: you know, but if you keep leaning into that area
Speaker 1: of and not being afraid to lean into the discomfort
Speaker 1: of life, then that's what the show is giving you.
Speaker 1: You know, you're leaning into the discomfort, you get the benefit, right.
Speaker 1: And you know, again that might just be getting up
Speaker 1: from your couch, turning off the TV, or not scrolling
Speaker 1: on your phone or putting you know, just deleting that
Speaker 1: app for like twenty four hours, so that you're just
Speaker 1: not being ruled by something outside of yourself. I think
Speaker 1: in this new aid we've been in the age of
Speaker 1: the Internet. I think at this new age of AI,
Speaker 1: which we're all there's so much anxiety and sort of
Speaker 1: you know, you know, nervousness around And I saw, you know,
Speaker 1: Sam Altman speak about some of this stuff, and I
Speaker 1: thought it's so interesting. But I think my takeaway from
Speaker 1: what he had said, and what I think is true
Speaker 1: for my life and what I can since is discipline,
Speaker 1: self discipline, because it's a choice to pick up your phone.
Speaker 1: It's a choice to get lost in your phone. It's
Speaker 1: a choice to keep scrolling. Or you could choose to
Speaker 1: put it down and step outside and simplify, do that meditation,
Speaker 1: do that yoga class. You could It's all choices, right.
Speaker 1: But I think the people that I think that if
Speaker 1: as and when you know, we see this new chapter
Speaker 1: of life, it's going to be totally different. My son,
Speaker 1: your your children, when you come into the world, they're
Speaker 1: not going to know a world without super intelligence. They're
Speaker 1: just not going to know that. Like my son doesn't
Speaker 1: know a well without the Internet. How has that impacted
Speaker 1: his life?
Speaker 2: I do, Yeah, so do I.
Speaker 1: But they're not going to have a No, they're not
Speaker 1: going to know a world without super intelligence. And it's
Speaker 1: going to bring remarkable benefit to our lives, no doubt.
Speaker 1: I'm sure health, healing, you know, access life. But it's
Speaker 1: like those old adages like Devil's hands, you know, I
Speaker 1: idle hands and the Devil's playground. So I keep thinking, like,
Speaker 1: what's going to be my what's the discipline. I'm going
Speaker 1: to create the routines and disciplines to create and keep
Speaker 1: working at so that I don't slip off into that.
Speaker 1: Because I do it, I can find myself just going
Speaker 1: And I kind of love my algorithm by the way,
Speaker 1: like it will send me all of your things and
Speaker 1: other people's, you know, and like messaging around. It's definitely
Speaker 1: listening to me messaging around. Oh, this relationship person is
Speaker 1: talking about fantastic things, you know, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: that would be great for the world to see or whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever it may be, So like, don't there's
Speaker 1: not it's not all bad, but it is. I think
Speaker 1: the discipline, the self mastery of discipline, right, self discipline
Speaker 1: and self mastery to know the one is the one
Speaker 1: that will protect. Because if you're like, what do they
Speaker 1: call them in games where it's like non player NPC,
Speaker 1: is it right? We can all become those. We can
Speaker 1: all just switch off and turn on our auto pilot
Speaker 1: and just be like because you don't want to because
Speaker 1: it's overwhelming. It's overwhelming. You're overwhelmed by the consistent. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, if you keep looking at the news, you're
Speaker 1: just going to be overwhelmed. It's wild, It's wild. I
Speaker 1: have so many friends who are like on both sides
Speaker 1: of you know, conflicts, you know, whether you know, and
Speaker 1: just it's just you just go. You can just be overwhelmed,
Speaker 1: you can just that is.
Speaker 2: Where we're at. I think we're overwhelmed, we're over consuming,
Speaker 2: where we're overexposed.
Speaker 1: We see and hear and understand, we get and there
Speaker 1: is so much more information than than than than we need,
Speaker 1: and then we continue to get more and then what's true,
Speaker 1: what's not true?
Speaker 2: It's a lot. And that's why it's a lot. And
Speaker 2: that's why if anyone's not feeling disciplined or is struggling,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of compassion.
Speaker 1: You show me a human, I'll show you anyone right,
Speaker 1: you know even and that's true of relationships, right. I
Speaker 1: think one of the things like learning Gabby Hamilton were
Speaker 1: a big part of my life at a period in
Speaker 1: my life a few years ago that were where I
Speaker 1: was separated from my partner flyn'smum and I was living
Speaker 1: kind of on my own in Malibu, and and there
Speaker 1: was such a really beautiful couple the way they I
Speaker 1: learned so much from seeing how they interacted and I
Speaker 1: always appreciate that I took that away with me. But
Speaker 1: I think it's like I kind of respect couples more
Speaker 1: than anything else now today somehow as well when we
Speaker 1: talk about relationshi, because it's the people that have kind
Speaker 1: of gone, they're continuing to choose and not to upgrade
Speaker 1: or think they're upgrading or that the grass is greener
Speaker 1: because we can all do that, of course, and maybe
Speaker 1: we will. And there's no judgment there either too, by
Speaker 1: the way, no judgment on any of it. But personally
Speaker 1: I kind of go, oh wow, you know, I admire
Speaker 1: that because it doesn't It's not easy, man, you know,
Speaker 1: because as people, as we age and change, and second,
Speaker 1: we're all being told that like you can get this
Speaker 1: new handbag that will go with this new car, or
Speaker 1: you can get this new watch and this new thing,
Speaker 1: and you're just going to keep. And I love a
Speaker 1: shiny object. So do I love a shiny object? You know?
Speaker 2: How have you managed to maintain your But it's practice
Speaker 2: and philosophy in Hollywood, because I imagine that do that.
Speaker 1: But as philosophy and products has maintained that has been
Speaker 1: my anchor. It's not I haven't maintained it it's been
Speaker 1: my it's helped, it's maintained me, it's helped me. It's
Speaker 1: I really feel like it's my super cake.
Speaker 2: You can tell my cap.
Speaker 1: It's obvious it's my like it's my superpower, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's it's available to anyone. But I got it
Speaker 1: at a young age, and I'm like it it's my wings,
Speaker 1: it's my it's my shield, it's my it's my wisdom,
Speaker 1: it's my courage, it's my compassion if I just use it.
Speaker 1: And sometimes I won't. H there are days I won't
Speaker 1: chant and I'm like, I mean, look, I'm years and
Speaker 1: years into this, so it's it's just I feel that
Speaker 1: it's never gone far from me. But but I know
Speaker 1: when I'm not, I'm like, wait, what's going on? Often
Speaker 1: it's been when I've been in a relationship. Often I've
Speaker 1: been in a relationship and I don't and I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: what why Why is that? Why am I not when
Speaker 1: I'm because what's being so? Yeah, but it's been, it
Speaker 1: was that was it was my Yeah, it was literally
Speaker 1: my I can feel it.
Speaker 2: It's it's very obvious, it's very evident from the show
Speaker 2: and today it's very real in your in your veins.
Speaker 2: What's something you feel you're being called right now? What's
Speaker 2: the fear you're being called to overcome right now or
Speaker 2: the lesson that you're being questioned? I sat with this
Speaker 2: question last year and it was really really interesting for
Speaker 2: me and my own meditation. It was revealed to me
Speaker 2: that if I really want to serve and have the
Speaker 2: impact that I want to have, that I'll have to
Speaker 2: be okay with dealing with more stress, pain, external.
Speaker 1: Kind of energy coming at you. Energy. Yes, I love
Speaker 1: you can have you can big plants, a bigger canvas,
Speaker 1: but it.
Speaker 2: All required that that's and that was a very interesting
Speaker 2: almost request or question that I was hearing from the
Speaker 2: universe or from God or from my own spiritual practice
Speaker 2: of this is what's required of you? Are you ready
Speaker 2: for you?
Speaker 1: Are you okay? What?
Speaker 2: What have you heard that or felt that you were
Speaker 2: being What fear are you being asked to overcome? Or
Speaker 2: what lesson are you being asked to learn right now?
Speaker 2: Because you've conquered so many fears and the show and
Speaker 2: gone to the edge. What's what's an edge that is
Speaker 2: being requested of you?
Speaker 1: I think that our deepest spheres are often they often
Speaker 1: lie in areas unknown to us subconscious, even in our subconscious.
Speaker 1: Some of the deepest fheares I have are like related
Speaker 1: to a historical pattern of behavioral thinking, which I don't
Speaker 1: know that I was even conscious of. You know, like
Speaker 1: I've inherited and possibly from in my mind because of
Speaker 1: my practice and faith generationally lifetimes previous lifetimes of thinking,
Speaker 1: because that's how I kind of live my life, like
Speaker 1: for the next life. I'm like, that's how I'm looking
Speaker 1: at it now. I'm like, I'm living for the next one,
Speaker 1: you know, like the Egyptians with the temples, it's like
Speaker 1: they were doing that because it was like and I
Speaker 1: kind of like, if I can live like that. But
Speaker 1: I think that when I allow myself, it feels connected
Speaker 1: to I think self worth, which I think is something
Speaker 1: that like we all kind of like, you know, like
Speaker 1: is Jay ready for that bigger canvas? Is he ready
Speaker 1: to put that message out into the world? Does he
Speaker 1: deserve that? Has he done enough for that? Am I
Speaker 1: worthy of that? Right? Have I? Have I done the work?
Speaker 1: Am I doing that? Am I in the flow enough?
Speaker 1: Am I? And also like because it's not it's cyclical, right,
Speaker 1: Sometimes you're just not in the front. I had seven
Speaker 1: years of just being what felt like some of that
Speaker 1: like swimming up river just and because I was just
Speaker 1: I'm going to throw up this river now for some reason,
Speaker 1: you know. And that was partly that time when I
Speaker 1: was separated and living in Montment and like training with
Speaker 1: lead and stuff, and I really kind of put my
Speaker 1: body and my mind through a lot of different before
Speaker 1: I did the shut even before I did to the edge.
Speaker 1: So I think I think it really for me, it's
Speaker 1: like that we're enough, right. I think somebody said it
Speaker 1: on your wall there, that you're enough. But it's like,
Speaker 1: I think we all struggle sometimes to really deeply believe
Speaker 1: that we are enough, that we're value, that we're valuable.
Speaker 1: You know, we're imprinted by our parents from the age
Speaker 1: of zero to seven, right, But that's not even taking
Speaker 1: into account the time that you know you're in your
Speaker 1: mother's So there's a whole heap of information that is
Speaker 1: just like is it yours or is it somebody else's.
Speaker 1: I'm constantly trying to go, like, how do I detach
Speaker 1: from my this idea of what is that my that
Speaker 1: is that my baggage looked like my baggage. I mean
Speaker 1: I know, okay, that's mine, all right, I take that,
Speaker 1: that's unpack that, but all that other stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: And I've I think Hoffman taught me a lot in
Speaker 1: that space. But I think i've interestingly like it's a
Speaker 1: fear of like being alone? Are you good to be alone?
Speaker 1: I think that was the biggest for me in a
Speaker 1: long time. Am I good to just be on my own?
Speaker 1: And I'm constantly working now? Math am I good enough
Speaker 1: on my own? Because am I good in my own company?
Speaker 1: Do I feel good with me just to be with
Speaker 1: just me today or for this next hour? Because I
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in my youth with people
Speaker 1: who I you know, really love and admire and adore
Speaker 1: and cantinue to, but in a way it wasn't serving me.
Speaker 1: I was like, it was you know, we talk about
Speaker 1: energy and drains and things. You know, there were there
Speaker 1: were there were relationships in my life that I didn't
Speaker 1: even really realize that the impact that they were having.
Speaker 1: And then when I did, I was like, oh wait
Speaker 1: a second, this needs reframing. And until I'm ready to reframe,
Speaker 1: I'm going to just take pause to feel safe soon
Speaker 1: and celebrated. But I think that I think my so
Speaker 1: in amongst all of that, I think it was probably
Speaker 1: being alone and being good with being alone and recognizing
Speaker 1: because we're going to be born and we're going to
Speaker 1: die alone. So it's like, how how how good are
Speaker 1: you with being alone?
Speaker 2: Beautiful?
Speaker 1: I think, and that you're enough, right, you don't need
Speaker 1: all the other things because I love a shiny object,
Speaker 1: I you know whatever, like although this isn't shiny, but
Speaker 1: it's the one from New Zealand, but you know I do.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I've got a far couple. Do I need them?
Speaker 1: Like the way it feels? But you know, do we
Speaker 1: need to keep consuming all this stuff when the planet
Speaker 1: is got a ticking clock? It's interesting, It's really interesting.
Speaker 2: I find that we're all paradoxes, and we're almost giving
Speaker 2: ourselves permission to be a paradox until all of it's purified.
Speaker 2: And it's almost the permission is what allows you the
Speaker 2: ability to purify. Whereas if you're living in the conflict
Speaker 2: of I'm only one thing, you don't get the opportunity
Speaker 2: to dissolve the part that you may not be comfortable
Speaker 2: with because you haven't accepted it. But no, that answer
Speaker 2: is beautiful being alone and being comfortable in your own
Speaker 2: skin and being enough, and that is the lifelong journey.
Speaker 2: I feel like that's you know, that is it and
Speaker 2: well and I feel like I could talk to you
Speaker 2: for hours and I hope we do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we did.
Speaker 2: I want to end with the we end every episode
Speaker 2: on which is called the final five of On Purpose.
Speaker 2: These are pretty much the same five questions that everyone
Speaker 2: gets answered, and every question has to be answered in
Speaker 2: one word to one sentence maximum.
Speaker 1: Okay, so.
Speaker 2: These are your final five and you can take your time.
Speaker 2: Door four questions, Orlando, These are your final five. The
Speaker 2: first question is what is the best advice you've ever
Speaker 2: heard or received?
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. My mother used to say, have respect from
Speaker 1: the doorman to the director, and I think respect all
Speaker 1: life anyone you meet, because we're all on that journey
Speaker 1: and the person that's opening the door for you could
Speaker 1: be running the country. You just don't know.
Speaker 2: It's a great answer. Question number two, what's the worst
Speaker 2: advice you've ever heard or received?
Speaker 1: The worst? I mean the worst advice. That's a really
Speaker 1: tricky one.
Speaker 2: You can skip it if your mind's blocked out. That's
Speaker 2: pretty cool.
Speaker 1: I yeah, it's hard for me.
Speaker 4: To.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 1: Hard for me to the worst advice?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sorry, No, that's good. Don't be sorry. That's
Speaker 2: totally great. I mean, if you blocked it all out,
Speaker 2: that's awesome because I like to make a log of
Speaker 2: bad advice everyone's received, because I feel like there's so
Speaker 2: much bad advice that goes around.
Speaker 1: I mean, I like, yeah, I'm not No, you blocked out.
Speaker 1: That's cool. Yeah, I like if it doesn't, if it's
Speaker 1: not a half for.
Speaker 2: Me, yeah, leave it leave That's what I'm saying. I
Speaker 2: don't skip the question. I don't need to apologize. Question
Speaker 2: number three, what's the first thought you have in the
Speaker 2: morning and the last one you haven't made?
Speaker 1: So we wake up in a family bed and Katie
Speaker 1: usually says, thank you God for today. I'm grateful in
Speaker 1: every way, especially for and Daisy will go and we'll
Speaker 1: all go Daddy, Mummy, Flenny, you know, we'll all do that.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful and that's and I'll then say your yeah,
Speaker 1: I think grat you.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And at night, yeah, it's the same. It's the same
Speaker 1: because it's like we woke up, you know, and I think, yeah.
Speaker 2: Question number four, what's something that you used to value
Speaker 2: that you don't value anymore.
Speaker 1: Ah, dude, that's so annoying other people's opinions of me.
Speaker 2: Great answer. Fifth and final question, we asked this to
Speaker 2: every guest who's ever been on the show. If you
Speaker 2: could create one law that everyone in the world had
Speaker 2: to follow, what would it be.
Speaker 1: I think it comes back to my first answer that
Speaker 1: my mother kind of instilled in me, which is just respect. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, a law of respecting life, all life. Bysaki
Speaker 1: Akada wrote this amazing letter. He came to the UK
Speaker 1: I think it was in the eighties to visit the
Speaker 1: Young the Youth members and he was there, but he
Speaker 1: chose not to stand before them to have a communication.
Speaker 1: I think because he could feel like the anticipation and
Speaker 1: the complete So he wrote this letter. Or he may
Speaker 1: have been busy, but he was there, but he didn't.
Speaker 1: But it was a choice from and within it, he said,
Speaker 1: there's a piece about I'm going to not maybe land this,
Speaker 1: but you'll get one point. This lifetime is about, you know,
Speaker 1: from the material, from the external to the internal and
Speaker 1: making all mothers happy, because I'd love to actually find
Speaker 1: the quote.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, So here we go.
Speaker 1: I'm a member of a Budhist organization. Since I'm sixteen
Speaker 1: and my mentor is a Japanese man in Japan, a
Speaker 1: man named Issato Kaida, and in nineteen ninety four he
Speaker 1: wrote a message of encouragement to the youth of the UK.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't see them, but he sent this message. This
Speaker 1: is an excerpt from the message that he sent to
Speaker 1: these children, took for them to listen to. He reserved
Speaker 1: himself from being there. But I wanted to read it
Speaker 1: because I feel it's so important, and I had it
Speaker 1: written for you as well to read along. But it
Speaker 1: says the times are changing from an age where justice,
Speaker 1: from an age where power is justice, to an age
Speaker 1: in which justice is power. In this new age, the
Speaker 1: supreme guiding principle will be the benefit of all humanity
Speaker 1: rather than the interests of one particular nation or ethnic group.
Speaker 1: We will see the transformation of history from the revolution
Speaker 1: of the external environment to that of the inner self,
Speaker 1: the inner human revolution. It will be an age in
Speaker 1: which the actions of.
Speaker 3: Leaders will naturally be based on the guidelines of making
Speaker 3: all mothers happy. The actions of leaders will be naturally
Speaker 3: based on the guidelines of making all mothers happy. Respect
Speaker 3: right because we can't us mortal men really fathom, you know,
Speaker 3: the power of.
Speaker 1: What it means to be a mother in the world.
Speaker 1: But like, if we can have a little bit of
Speaker 1: because you know, so interesting, isn't it so interesting to
Speaker 1: see the times, how they've been changing, and how this
Speaker 1: masculine that's been living in with us and we've been
Speaker 1: living with and under and around and for and it's
Speaker 1: sort of transformed, and how we're learning, particularly as men,
Speaker 1: to respect and understand the power of the mother, mother Earth, mother, mother,
Speaker 1: the mothers. And it's like, and he goes on to
Speaker 1: say about respecting your father and mother, and I really
Speaker 1: think he means all fathers, all mothers. You know. I
Speaker 1: was talking about this with David, who introduced me to
Speaker 1: my practice just earlier, and we were saying, he was
Speaker 1: saying it, I've really come to understand.
Speaker 2: That it's all mothers.
Speaker 1: Respect all mothers, respect all fathers, particularly because they hopefully
Speaker 1: have some sense, you know, of the value of life.
Speaker 1: And there is some people that don't. Of course, there
Speaker 1: are some people that that's not But yeah, so I
Speaker 1: think that's that's that's beautiful idea.
Speaker 2: I've never heard it being put that way.
Speaker 1: It's a wonderful, you know, and and that idea as well,
Speaker 1: which actually, interestingly I wrote a note of what Sam
Speaker 1: said about Oldman, and he was like, the journey is now,
Speaker 1: because I think it's way more. It's not the externalist,
Speaker 1: the internal. If we are those little galaxies, right, if
Speaker 1: we really start to understand each of us and have
Speaker 1: like respect and take responsibility, right, imagine if you know,
Speaker 1: I think what I what I kind of understood about
Speaker 1: my practice was if I'm good enough and capable enough
Speaker 1: to just take care of my side of the street, right,
Speaker 1: then if I get so good at it, I can
Speaker 1: start to take care of other people's side of the street.
Speaker 1: Because there are some people they just don't have the
Speaker 1: skill set. They may not have had the education, they
Speaker 1: may not have the upbringing, whatever it. Maybe the circumstances
Speaker 1: they were born into a life that just didn't provide
Speaker 1: anything like then tools necessary to be able to cope
Speaker 1: with what life is like, those obstacles. I was talking
Speaker 1: about that for some people, it's just it's just there
Speaker 1: the whole time, right. It's like, if we're all becoming
Speaker 1: capable humans and able of taking care of then we
Speaker 1: can start taking care of your neighbor. Right, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, start taking care of the person next
Speaker 1: to you because they can't, right, Because that's what it's
Speaker 1: going to take right in my mind for this next
Speaker 1: chapter with where you know, jobs are not what they
Speaker 1: used to be and people need you know, that boundary, right,
Speaker 1: they need that that frame of reference that you need
Speaker 1: that kind of the security through through through boundaries. Right.
Speaker 1: So yeah, the discipline, but the respect and they all
Speaker 1: mother's happy. Let's make all mothers happy. It's funny. I
Speaker 1: don't do that though, by the way.
Speaker 2: I try.
Speaker 1: We try.
Speaker 2: You've said it here now everyone's been listening and watching.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Orlando. Thank you for being what
Speaker 2: I was saying to you a second ago. Thank you
Speaker 2: for being so vulnerable, thanks for being so open, Thanks
Speaker 2: for being in a space of discovery to you know,
Speaker 2: this conversation with us discovering what was in your heart,
Speaker 2: what was in your mind, it was us kind of
Speaker 2: unraveling and opening. And those to me and my favorite
Speaker 2: conversations when you don't know where you're going, but you
Speaker 2: know you're going there together. And I think that's so
Speaker 2: true for so much of what we discussed. And everyone's
Speaker 2: been listening and watching back at home or at work
Speaker 2: or wherever you are in the world. Make sure you
Speaker 2: tune into the Edge, which is premiering on April eighteenth
Speaker 2: if you haven't already. And also please please please let
Speaker 2: me and Orlando know on Instagram TikTok. You guys cut
Speaker 2: up the best clips and everything. Let me know what resonated,
Speaker 2: what connect to tag us both so we can see
Speaker 2: what you're practicing, what you're staying with you and what
Speaker 2: you're putting in and implementing and applying in your life.
Speaker 2: But a big than you do. Orland there for showing up.
Speaker 2: Thanks me so deeply and wonderfully, and I'm excited for
Speaker 2: one of these conversations.
Speaker 1: Me too, Me too, absolutely, thank you, love, thanks having.
Speaker 2: If this is the year that you're trying to get creative,
Speaker 2: you're trying to build more, I need you to listen
Speaker 2: to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break
Speaker 2: into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods
Speaker 2: that lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving
Speaker 2: what you do. If you're trying to find your passion
Speaker 2: and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you,
Speaker 2: just because I like it that doesn't give it any value,
Speaker 2: like as an artist.
Speaker 1: If you like it, that's all of the value.
Speaker 2: That's the success comes when you say I like this
Speaker 2: enough for other people to see it.