Speaker 1: Off the Record is a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to another bonus episode of Off the Record.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jordan Runtuck. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1: Our latest chapter delves into a dark era for David Bowie.
Speaker 1: The months spent in Los Angeles he battled his deepest
Speaker 1: demons in the City of Angels literally in a sense.
Speaker 1: He warded off haunting hallucinations and paranoid delusions with the
Speaker 1: aid of exorcisms and supernatural spells. Famously fortified with a
Speaker 1: diet of cocaine, milk and red peppers, he stayed awake
Speaker 1: for days at a time, driving himself to the brink
Speaker 1: of madness through malnutrition and sleep deprivation. It was a
Speaker 1: dangerous period for me, he would admit in later years.
Speaker 1: I was at the end of my tether physically and emotionally,
Speaker 1: and had serious doubts about my sanity. Somehow, during the
Speaker 1: depths of his personal hell, he produced the landmark album
Speaker 1: Station a Station, which many fans rank among the best
Speaker 1: work he ever made. Of just six songs, including a
Speaker 1: sprawling title track, he redefined not just his sound, but
Speaker 1: the sound of rock and roll. The album opens with
Speaker 1: the sound of a steam train, perhaps not coincidentally, the
Speaker 1: vehicle that brought the plane phobic Bowie to Los Angeles
Speaker 1: in the spring of ninety. For the first few months
Speaker 1: of his stay, he lived with his friend Glenn Hughes,
Speaker 1: a rock icon in his own right. Glenn was in
Speaker 1: the midst of his tenure as the bass player for
Speaker 1: Deep Purple. They had met in Hollywood the previous year,
Speaker 1: when the band was recording their hard rock epic Stormbringer
Speaker 1: and David was in town for his Diamond Dogs extravaganza.
Speaker 1: The pair hit it off and stayed in touch. When
Speaker 1: Bowie moved from New York to LA to make his
Speaker 1: feature film debut and Nick rogues The Man Who Fell
Speaker 1: to Earth a few months later, he decided to stay
Speaker 1: with Hughes to keep a low profile. Desperate to escape
Speaker 1: the messy legal and business fallout from a split with
Speaker 1: manager Tony de Freeze, David sought refuge and a friend
Speaker 1: and certain substances. The excesses of the period of Gone
Speaker 1: Down and rock lore. You've heard most of them, I'm sure,
Speaker 1: which is exercising pools, phantom falling bodies, Nazi newsreels on loop. Thankfully,
Speaker 1: both men made it out of the Grips of Addiction,
Speaker 1: David DeCamp to Berlin the break new musical ground with
Speaker 1: albums like Low and Heroes Which Will Get Too soon enough.
Speaker 1: Glenn Hughes continue to enjoy a remarkable run in Deep Purple,
Speaker 1: Black Sabbath, the supergroup Black Country Communion, and a host
Speaker 1: of solo projects. Most recently, the Rock and Roll Hall
Speaker 1: of Famer joined the group The Dead Daisies, writing nearly
Speaker 1: all of the lyrics for their latest album, Holy Ground,
Speaker 1: which was released in January. In addition to bass duties,
Speaker 1: he also sings lead on the collection, proving once more.
Speaker 1: Just in case there's any doubt why they call him
Speaker 1: the Voice of Rock. I spoke to Glenn about his
Speaker 1: new music and his time as David Bowie's housemate back
Speaker 1: in I guess to start. I wanted to ask you
Speaker 1: about the first time you met David Bowie was in
Speaker 1: the summer seventy four when you were in l A
Speaker 1: recording Stormbringer. That's right, How did you first get connected?
Speaker 1: We were down there, you know, making the album and
Speaker 1: um number one. I didn't know he was in the
Speaker 1: hotel and it was a Saturday night. I was having
Speaker 1: a bit of a party and uh. His ward showed
Speaker 1: up Angie and she came to me and asked me
Speaker 1: if I'd like to meet him. So I went upstairs
Speaker 1: to his suite with myself and Keith Moon and Ronnie Wood,
Speaker 1: my friends, and I met David for the first time.
Speaker 1: And as you know, in that period, he was going
Speaker 1: through his R and B period and he was all
Speaker 1: fascinated by Black American music as most of us were
Speaker 1: back then and still are and we were. He was
Speaker 1: fascinated that I was this rock and roll, rock and
Speaker 1: roll guy that was really into R and B. He
Speaker 1: had seeing in the California Jam video concept idea with
Speaker 1: the Proper and he was taken back that I was
Speaker 1: such a R and B fanatic and he was in
Speaker 1: that world at that time. He was, as you know,
Speaker 1: forever changing. And that thing about David we love the most,
Speaker 1: he was never ever gonna stop changing. Yeah, you can
Speaker 1: say that again. And I know you were both big
Speaker 1: John Lee Hooker fans. Was that at an early point
Speaker 1: of connection early on, Yeah, we spoke about all the
Speaker 1: Blues legends and we're talked about the Sole legends, and
Speaker 1: we we were very very similar in in what we
Speaker 1: believed was the right thing to do at that period
Speaker 1: for me as well. I mean that was the night
Speaker 1: we we met and we basically went on a long
Speaker 1: run together, um, which we can talk about, but but
Speaker 1: in general, it's difficult when you actually it was difficult
Speaker 1: being in a place with David. He wanted to spend
Speaker 1: a lot of time with me talking about whatever. So
Speaker 1: we got a chance to do more meeting up when
Speaker 1: I went to New York. I spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time in New York. But in general, I'd say the
Speaker 1: summer of seventy four is when we first made that
Speaker 1: that that that meeting. What were your first impressions of
Speaker 1: David in the flesh, because, as you said, you're hanging
Speaker 1: out with Ronnie Wood and Keith Moon. In what ways
Speaker 1: was he different than those guys. When you get one
Speaker 1: on one with someone, it doesn't matter that the profile
Speaker 1: or not. You have to give your yourself the opportunity
Speaker 1: to hear what they're saying and deal with they're saying.
Speaker 1: And David was a person that liked to make a point.
Speaker 1: He had so much energy behind everything that he all
Speaker 1: he was concerned about was making the next move on
Speaker 1: the table. For him, that would have been young Americans.
Speaker 1: You know, he had David Live out already and he
Speaker 1: was really getting ready to to do young Americans. Is
Speaker 1: there anything that that you learned from him in that era?
Speaker 1: I think it was in your memoir where you said
Speaker 1: that he would tell you, you you know, if everyone's going right,
Speaker 1: go left, you know, go go with it, go against
Speaker 1: the grain. Like what what? How did he How did
Speaker 1: he share that with you? How did he show that
Speaker 1: to you? Well, he knew I was friends with Stevie Wonder,
Speaker 1: and he knew that I loved Stevis were and he
Speaker 1: got me alone one day he said, listen, Glenn, you
Speaker 1: should listen, or you should maybe listen to something else,
Speaker 1: or you know, some other artists. Like he always kept
Speaker 1: on about newness a moment. But I understood what he
Speaker 1: was saying because he wanted to go against the grain. Uh,
Speaker 1: not an ego away, he just loved uh, fighting that
Speaker 1: his own cause, you know, and you could never penned
Speaker 1: David down. He was always changing. That's the most remarkable
Speaker 1: thing I've learned about him, which is I've taken into
Speaker 1: my life never be afraid to change. The only thing
Speaker 1: that happens in life our pain and change and there's
Speaker 1: been a lot of both of those evolution. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a beautiful way to put it. One of my my
Speaker 1: great constant regrets that I never got to see was
Speaker 1: the Diamond Dogs tour um. I understand you saw it
Speaker 1: in um September or seven before. What was that like
Speaker 1: to see? If I did. I was at the old
Speaker 1: Universal Ampitheater when he was outside and he did five nights.
Speaker 1: I was there for two shows. Oh excuse me. Incredible
Speaker 1: Trulian master. We all know about David. A master at
Speaker 1: its crap, completely a master at his crap. David remember
Speaker 1: Dave sambleand Sacks, David Cherry, and I hadn't known too
Speaker 1: much what he was doing on that particular run until
Speaker 1: I saw it live. And again, this is when he
Speaker 1: was deep into the R and B collect connection, which
Speaker 1: I I've always been, And when I saw him on
Speaker 1: those two occasions at the Universal, it was mind altering.
Speaker 1: He really was. It was the thing with David. He
Speaker 1: was mysterious. And that's the way I like to keep
Speaker 1: my life too. It's being aware of your surroundings and
Speaker 1: and having some privacy and and always you know, turning
Speaker 1: right instead of turning less. How did it come to
Speaker 1: pass that David came to live in your house in
Speaker 1: the in the spring of because you were away on
Speaker 1: tour when he first arrived, right, so he was all
Speaker 1: by himself. This is the craziest thing. This is David
Speaker 1: Bowie going to travel alone on the train from New
Speaker 1: York alone. Um. And he wanted me to pick him
Speaker 1: up at the uh Grow Central down in the left.
Speaker 1: And I couldn't beat that because I was actually in
Speaker 1: bok arrest or Paris. So I had the guy that
Speaker 1: was working for me at my house pick him up.
Speaker 1: And when I got home three days later, he was
Speaker 1: there in my home. Um, I think it's I spoke
Speaker 1: about this before. He wanted to disappear from New York,
Speaker 1: or disappear from the people he was working with, if
Speaker 1: you will, or how can I say, Tony defriest he
Speaker 1: wanted to distance himself from from from the business aspect,
Speaker 1: and he he he wanted to come and stay at
Speaker 1: my house. Uh. We kept we kept an agreement that
Speaker 1: no one would know, no mell or, no no friends
Speaker 1: would know he was coming out. So when I got
Speaker 1: home there h after being in Paris, I was three
Speaker 1: days late to that party, and he was waiting and
Speaker 1: we uh, we had some great, great, great times together. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask what was the typical day like
Speaker 1: for you? What would you like to do together? Well,
Speaker 1: we didn't leave a lot we uh we. I mean,
Speaker 1: what I'm not gonna do is I'm not gonna grandiose.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna you know, set the benchmark for being
Speaker 1: grandiose with behavior. Um, let's just say we were. We
Speaker 1: were both enabling each other, if you will. Um, it
Speaker 1: was the two of us. Um. We did burn the candles,
Speaker 1: but we did get a lot of work done as
Speaker 1: far as you know, bits and pieces of music. Uh.
Speaker 1: He was totally full blown into the third right. He
Speaker 1: was fascinated by the World War One and War War two,
Speaker 1: and he would watch videos and all kinds of stuff
Speaker 1: in my home. But the fascinating part about David's stay
Speaker 1: at my house was this is where he came up
Speaker 1: with the album Station into Station And I was pretty
Speaker 1: to see that at work in front of my very eyes. Oh,
Speaker 1: that is one of my all time favorite albums. What
Speaker 1: was this creative process like around this time? Was he
Speaker 1: still doing the William Burrows kind of cutting and paste lyrics?
Speaker 1: He was absolutely doing that he was, and that was
Speaker 1: new to me, and it took me a while to
Speaker 1: realize what what is it? He never told me so
Speaker 1: one when day I said, hey, what's going on here?
Speaker 1: Then he walked me through it. You know, so again
Speaker 1: he was pressing another button, wasn't he? The album was
Speaker 1: completely off kilter for I thought it was a wonderful
Speaker 1: piece of music. But again he was showing me, kind
Speaker 1: of laying a blueprint out for me, really, I mean
Speaker 1: about what I should do. I mean I was into
Speaker 1: proper as you know, a great big rock band, I
Speaker 1: mean a hard rock band, and I was questioning if
Speaker 1: that's where I wanted to stay. And um, but everybody
Speaker 1: knows I've always been a Black American soul not. Can't
Speaker 1: help myself as the way I was raised and what
Speaker 1: David was doing now on stage in the station was
Speaker 1: was far different what's going on in young Americans. And again,
Speaker 1: this is the thing that intrigued me about it. He
Speaker 1: wasn't frightened to delve into something new. And I think
Speaker 1: of your first solo, I think it played me out.
Speaker 1: I mean that's got a lot of soul and funk
Speaker 1: influences on it too. I feel like yes, he was. Yes,
Speaker 1: he he was going to produce that when he was
Speaker 1: at that time, he was he was going to give
Speaker 1: to Berlin. So that didn't happen, but we were thinking
Speaker 1: about playing me out with David producing it, and I
Speaker 1: was definitely in that mindset. As you can hear the album,
Speaker 1: it's nunlike anything else I've ever done before. It's a
Speaker 1: complete orchestrated background singers, deep funk, consul and it's uh.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say to tip of the hat towards David,
Speaker 1: but it definitely gave me a lot of confidence to
Speaker 1: do my own work like that. Did you keep in
Speaker 1: touch with David after he moved out of your house
Speaker 1: and in with Michael Lippman and eventually into his own
Speaker 1: place in l A. Yes, I did, yes, And I
Speaker 1: spent some time with David dhin um and also when
Speaker 1: he went to back to the UK with Iggy and
Speaker 1: the and the sales brothers. Um. Yeah, I mean we
Speaker 1: kept in touch for a while and um, it was
Speaker 1: an interesting you know the story. David always changed with
Speaker 1: the weather, you know, and he was it was a
Speaker 1: different with David, but if you're really close to him,
Speaker 1: he kept in touch with you. I know those those times.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's mentioned I think you said to
Speaker 1: It was kind of a dark time for him in
Speaker 1: the mid seventies and and also for you. But you
Speaker 1: came out the other side of those kind of scary
Speaker 1: time getting sober. What where did you find the strength?
Speaker 1: What got you out of it? Um? Being sick and
Speaker 1: tired of being sick and tired. It wasn't I didn't
Speaker 1: get sober for a girl, or I got sober because
Speaker 1: I knew that I couldn't survive. There was a point where,
Speaker 1: you know, I kept asking my higher power for help
Speaker 1: and he was busy, obviously, and he didn't get to
Speaker 1: me in Christmas until Christmas Day and I had that
Speaker 1: break through, a moment where I had someone drive me
Speaker 1: to the hospital and check me in. It was something
Speaker 1: that I needed to do for myself. Um, I didn't
Speaker 1: know what was going on. I was so paranoid, but
Speaker 1: I knew it was going to take me if I
Speaker 1: didn't surrender. And that's what I did. And you are
Speaker 1: healthy today and busier than ever. You just released your
Speaker 1: first full length LP with the Dead Daisies, who you
Speaker 1: joined in. How did you first link up with these guys,
Speaker 1: because I know you go pretty far back with Doug Aldridge. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean Doug was in my band in two thousand
Speaker 1: fifty um, and then you know, I mean, so I
Speaker 1: should have been so busy. Um. About eighteen months ago,
Speaker 1: out of a call from the Days management if I'd
Speaker 1: like to meet with David Lowie who lives in New York,
Speaker 1: and he flew out to meet me in l A.
Speaker 1: We had, you know, the Sunset Marquis. We had, you know,
Speaker 1: an exchange. It was about what they wanted to do
Speaker 1: moving forward with their own brand. I would I like
Speaker 1: to be involved with it? And would i'd bring some
Speaker 1: songs with me? And I said sure. My only concern
Speaker 1: was I need to be friendly with these people. I
Speaker 1: gotta be really honest at this point in my career.
Speaker 1: I gotta be really part of a brotherhood. And that's
Speaker 1: that's what we have called a company. I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: working so for a number of years now, how was
Speaker 1: it adapting back into sort of a band mentality? Was
Speaker 1: that a big mental weak for you? Or it wasn't
Speaker 1: so easy? Actually, because I have been running my own
Speaker 1: figure so long. It was one step at the time.
Speaker 1: Remember this album is recorded record COVID Recording November, sam
Speaker 1: Out nineteen so. And in France, which is wonderful place
Speaker 1: to sound me in the southern places, lots of Greek studios,
Speaker 1: a huge chateau, a remarkable place to make music and
Speaker 1: to uh, you know, prepare some song. There was an
Speaker 1: interview gave recently where you said that a lot of
Speaker 1: your songs, almost all your songs start on acoustic guitar,
Speaker 1: which surprised me. Even the hard rocking ones start from
Speaker 1: this comparatively delicate place. What is it about starting on
Speaker 1: acoustic guitar that really works for is allow you to
Speaker 1: to see here the dynamics more clearly or what is it?
Speaker 1: I think? For a time in my life I was
Speaker 1: writing on electric guitar, excuse me, and then the last
Speaker 1: few albums I wanted to write acoustically because if you
Speaker 1: can create a song acoustically, you can really hear everything
Speaker 1: that you need to hear. There's no affects on the
Speaker 1: guitar has known nothing, and I've written some very heavy
Speaker 1: songs on the Black Country album Monaco Guitar. So for me,
Speaker 1: the acoustic has been my friend, really has been really
Speaker 1: close friends I I love so much of the album.
Speaker 1: I love the track like no other. You you cut
Speaker 1: that one live? Right, You've got a lot of these
Speaker 1: tracks live. Yeah, you know, I'm not approach those. Guy. Um,
Speaker 1: I've been making records a long, long, long time, and
Speaker 1: let's just say, in the nighties I did a few
Speaker 1: things that that didn't sound right for me. And then,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of early two thousands, I started to say,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go back to making, you know, especially
Speaker 1: on some movie which my dear friend Chad Smith. We
Speaker 1: we we went in and cut that live. And I've
Speaker 1: been doing that with Black Country and all the solos
Speaker 1: I've done since then. I have to ask you, as
Speaker 1: a passion and amateur basis, I never forgive myself if
Speaker 1: I don't. How do you get that? Based on what
Speaker 1: do you use? Oh? You know, and this is a
Speaker 1: good question. Off the top of my head, the obvious
Speaker 1: answer for me is it's in the fingers. Um. It's
Speaker 1: first of all, it's in the soul, and then it
Speaker 1: passes through it's in the fingers. I think it's in
Speaker 1: the way certain people play instruments, whether it's the way
Speaker 1: John Bottom held a drumstick, you know, you know, so
Speaker 1: certain soccer players kick a ball. It's it's an acclamation
Speaker 1: of the single clarity of a tone, or like, oh
Speaker 1: I only got that tone. Um, And for me, I
Speaker 1: go a lot of Basically, I can't pick any of
Speaker 1: any of rob and you wouldn't even know it is
Speaker 1: a difference. But I guess, I guess. I truly am
Speaker 1: a man that loves to play bass guitar. And people
Speaker 1: basically know me as a singer. But a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't, well not a lot of people, but people
Speaker 1: don't know what played, babe. Now that's starting to realize.
Speaker 1: They do and they go and hang on a minute,
Speaker 1: have you heard like no other? And they like, it's
Speaker 1: just a it's just a piece of Glenn, It's just
Speaker 1: what I do. Now, you're you're mostly a pick a
Speaker 1: pectum guy, right as opposed to a finger style player.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why. Um. When I joined the
Speaker 1: Ancle find Just Keepers when I was seventeen, I got
Speaker 1: a call on Wednesday night. I was playing guitar in
Speaker 1: another band on Friday night. They wanted me to join
Speaker 1: and I had two days to learn the songs and yeah,
Speaker 1: and and I couldn't play with my fingers because you
Speaker 1: have to learn how to do that. So, but what
Speaker 1: I need you to know is that anybody hearing this,
Speaker 1: I think with my thing, there's any sound like I'm
Speaker 1: playing a pick. I've learned from the great space players
Speaker 1: in the world. From that people that don't use a pick,
Speaker 1: you know, the greater space players, And I've learned from
Speaker 1: them what not to play. You know, it's important for
Speaker 1: me not to, oh, listen, I do rage on the
Speaker 1: base so like the water. But if you listen to
Speaker 1: the work I've done in a new band of Obedience,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of holes and spaces, and I really
Speaker 1: I am in love with playing backs again. I think
Speaker 1: it's pretty obvious if you if you hear what I'm
Speaker 1: doing now, you can see them. I have a lot
Speaker 1: of fun, a lot of fun, and and a lot
Speaker 1: a long way that continue. Absolutely. I hope we can
Speaker 1: get out there and see you having fun very soon.
Speaker 1: And how have you been doing in the past year?
Speaker 1: So have you been adapting, staying healthy and happy? Have
Speaker 1: you been writing a lot? I've been writing a lot.
Speaker 1: I've wrote a whole bunch of new material. Um, I
Speaker 1: have a studio here. Let's just say six months of
Speaker 1: last year was locked in my studio preparing some new work. Um,
Speaker 1: and that's ongoing. I have been blessed to be a songwriter.
Speaker 1: In the seventies and eighties, Okay, I got some success
Speaker 1: as a writer, but when I got sober in the
Speaker 1: early nineties, that all changed for me because I started
Speaker 1: to think about the human condition and walking through the
Speaker 1: fear and letting go. Those things for me are so important.
Speaker 1: Is there something since you got sober that is the
Speaker 1: most important thing that you've learned since then, something you
Speaker 1: would like to to pass along to two fans and listeners.
Speaker 1: You can't live in the past. It's there's some wonderful memories.
Speaker 1: I've gotten some in different and crazy memories, but I
Speaker 1: can't go there because it can't be redone. And if
Speaker 1: I go into the future, it's a dangerous topic because
Speaker 1: you just don't know. And the only place I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be it's totally here in this mond now. It's taken
Speaker 1: me lifetime to talk like this, a life time to
Speaker 1: understand about the present moment. And it's very basic to me,
Speaker 1: very very basic. If I'm either in the past or
Speaker 1: the future, UM, I just gotta remember, come on now,
Speaker 1: you're not there and just stay here, and if I
Speaker 1: stay here in the presence, then I'm going to have
Speaker 1: a good good time. Makes you a happier person. It
Speaker 1: probably makes you a better musician to just being there
Speaker 1: and hearing what's happening in that exact moment and how
Speaker 1: to respond to it. Oh, it really does the last
Speaker 1: listen new songs of written of later or all about
Speaker 1: that actually holding ground? The album I wrote the lyrics too,
Speaker 1: is about the same subjects as well, so I think
Speaker 1: for the rest of my career, if I can say this,
Speaker 1: that's what I'm going to be thinking about. I don't
Speaker 1: like to sing too much about fiction. I like to
Speaker 1: talk about stuff that we're all going through and to
Speaker 1: be a HeLa if you will. Off the Record is
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. If you liked what
Speaker 1: you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review. For
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