1
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,440
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hart Star.

2
00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,120
Speaker 2: That's Karen Kilgariff. Happy birthday. Thank you so much.

3
00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,200
Speaker 1: Oh my god, thank you, and thank you for buying

4
00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:28,240
Speaker 1: me all of these things.

5
00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:29,080
Speaker 2: I did all of this.

6
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,200
Speaker 1: It's incredible. Georgia got here at six a m. And

7
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,120
Speaker 1: she had three rolls of Scotch tape and a dream.

8
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,720
Speaker 2: These are from my garden, of course, from my greenhouse.

9
00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:40,959
Speaker 1: Incredible.

10
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:41,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

11
00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,320
Speaker 1: P and E's are rinuculous p.

12
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,960
Speaker 2: And e's and they're Martha Stewart flavor.

13
00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,919
Speaker 1: Oh best flavor there is. I actually love these flowers

14
00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,440
Speaker 1: so much. Yes, did you guys know that that you

15
00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:53,040
Speaker 1: brought them?

16
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,240
Speaker 2: Craig and I may or may not have discussed p andies.

17
00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:57,440
Speaker 2: Love it.

18
00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:03,080
Speaker 1: Very classy, very classy. Actually we should thank our set decorator. Yeah,

19
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:04,679
Speaker 1: Cory Cory Nixon.

20
00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:05,240
Speaker 2: He's a PC.

21
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,880
Speaker 1: He's not a set decorator, no that he does this,

22
00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:09,560
Speaker 1: but he's been forced to become one.

23
00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:11,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he addresses so well. We're like, you look

24
00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,440
Speaker 2: like you know how to put things together. Yeah, it's

25
00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,080
Speaker 2: your birthday. I totally got you a present and it's

26
00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,680
Speaker 2: so cool and you're gonna love it. And it didn't

27
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:20,600
Speaker 2: get sent in time.

28
00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:22,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, can.

29
00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:23,759
Speaker 2: I have just shown you a photo. No, I'll give

30
00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:24,640
Speaker 2: it to you next week.

31
00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,920
Speaker 1: So listen, I've now done this. It's just cute fifty

32
00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:33,039
Speaker 1: six times. And I couldn't care if it was a

33
00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,479
Speaker 1: contest and I won money at the end. And I mean,

34
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,039
Speaker 1: I don't mean that in the like this. When I

35
00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,959
Speaker 1: walked in here, it truly brought me joy. Also, our

36
00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,199
Speaker 1: producer Molly Smith is at the helm of course, knowing

37
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,280
Speaker 1: how much I care about rose Gold, what it does

38
00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,240
Speaker 1: for me emotionally, but this is as good as it

39
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,040
Speaker 1: gets for me. Yeah, because I think after a while

40
00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:53,160
Speaker 1: you're like, I don't know.

41
00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, especially when you could like pass the milestone

42
00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 2: birthdays and get into the like wow birthdays.

43
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,120
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's like not to stolen valor from

44
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,760
Speaker 1: the kids who had like high school ripped away from them.

45
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,959
Speaker 1: But having my fiftieth birthday during COVID and you had

46
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,680
Speaker 1: your fortieth during COVID, Yeah, there was a thing where

47
00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:17,120
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I either I'm going to be

48
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,160
Speaker 1: really upset about this or just never care again. And

49
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,600
Speaker 1: I picked b right, which I recommend in life.

50
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,119
Speaker 2: I feel like because I had my fortieth birthday during

51
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,280
Speaker 2: COVID and cried on the day a lot, did you. Yeah,

52
00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,840
Speaker 2: it was like early in COVID for both of us. Yes,

53
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:36,800
Speaker 2: that I am like obligated to celebrate every birthday since

54
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,800
Speaker 2: that I have in freedom down more than I would,

55
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:41,639
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

56
00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,800
Speaker 1: That's normally that's a way more positive kind of end results.

57
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,280
Speaker 2: Like I didn't get the blowout fortieth that I probably

58
00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,359
Speaker 2: would not have fucking thrown anyways, So.

59
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,639
Speaker 1: You can always cry about things you didn't get right,

60
00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:53,200
Speaker 1: no matters.

61
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,720
Speaker 2: So so forty six has to be a big blowout. Yes,

62
00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:57,800
Speaker 2: fuck in Italy for it?

63
00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,560
Speaker 1: Hell yes, why not? Also is a different birthday too,

64
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,720
Speaker 1: because that is a little bit of a turning point

65
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,200
Speaker 1: and to not get to have anybody like just shower

66
00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,000
Speaker 1: you with love on that day sucks.

67
00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,639
Speaker 2: It reminds me of all the kids in school who

68
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,120
Speaker 2: had summer birthdays who just never got the cupcakes or

69
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:19,200
Speaker 2: the sevy birthdays or whatever all lumped together, yeah Christmas birthdays,

70
00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,440
Speaker 2: whereas a May birthday everyone stoked the years over. Yeah,

71
00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,960
Speaker 2: everyone's like it's spring. Yeah, it's a new season. It's

72
00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,120
Speaker 2: a big advantage to have a May birthday. Well, happy birthday.

73
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:30,680
Speaker 1: Thank you.

74
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,160
Speaker 2: I'll give you a present next week. It's cute though,

75
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:34,840
Speaker 2: I want to though, it's just like a cute little

76
00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,280
Speaker 2: thing that I saw it. I was like, that's for Karen. Okay, now,

77
00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,000
Speaker 2: not like what am I going to get her? It

78
00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:40,240
Speaker 2: was like, that's for Karen.

79
00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,160
Speaker 1: You sat down with a big pencil.

80
00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:43,680
Speaker 2: What am I going to do? This is it?

81
00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,760
Speaker 1: And then you start crying? That gets your fortieth birthday

82
00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:46,480
Speaker 1: in COVID.

83
00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,280
Speaker 2: Right, How am I going to top last year?

84
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:48,760
Speaker 1: Oh?

85
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,600
Speaker 2: If I found something social media videos that just showed

86
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,520
Speaker 2: up in my algorithm that I didn't know existed, But

87
00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,120
Speaker 2: that is going to be my new personality completely.

88
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:10,560
Speaker 1: Sword yoga that is so dangerous.

89
00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,640
Speaker 2: No it's not. I'll tell you why. Okay. It's this

90
00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,040
Speaker 2: company called Weapon Up. This is not an ad. I

91
00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,080
Speaker 2: just found them and I'm obsessed now. Her name sabb

92
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,040
Speaker 2: another woman who started it. It's like tai chi meets yo,

93
00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,120
Speaker 2: like vinyasa yoga meets like synchronized fencing. But they have

94
00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,719
Speaker 2: practice swords so like they're not sharp or anything like that.

95
00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,520
Speaker 2: But oh okay, that's I've been waiting for my next

96
00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,880
Speaker 2: you know, I've done the fucking performer I've done hula hooping.

97
00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:42,840
Speaker 1: And now you've been waiting for sword yoga, yoga, sword yoga.

98
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:44,440
Speaker 1: Now you pronounced that sword.

99
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,039
Speaker 2: I love the I love. I can't help it. It's

100
00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,360
Speaker 2: like a it's a storm, it's a stem.

101
00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,680
Speaker 1: When do you ever get the opportunity to just where

102
00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,000
Speaker 1: you're like, no, sorry, this is my workout class I

103
00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,360
Speaker 1: have to get. Even if it's a practice sword, sword.

104
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,800
Speaker 2: Sword, it's I I'll let you know. I'm going to

105
00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:02,680
Speaker 2: do a class. I'm going to fucking do it. I'm

106
00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,040
Speaker 2: buying the practice sword. It's like a vegan. It's like

107
00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:06,200
Speaker 2: all I'm going to talk about. Now.

108
00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:07,560
Speaker 1: Do you remember the story I told you where I

109
00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,960
Speaker 1: used to take my old dog George to the dog

110
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:10,800
Speaker 1: park at six am?

111
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:12,400
Speaker 2: Yes, and you met someone there.

112
00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,840
Speaker 1: I didn't meet him. I was on this end of

113
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,039
Speaker 1: the park. On the other the end of the park,

114
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:18,960
Speaker 1: I look down. There's a guy dressed like a ninja

115
00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,000
Speaker 1: with a real sword, and I was like, so, I'm

116
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,479
Speaker 1: further away from my car in a straight line than

117
00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:25,279
Speaker 1: he is to me.

118
00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:27,440
Speaker 2: How are we going to do this? It's going to

119
00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:28,000
Speaker 2: run at you.

120
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,120
Speaker 1: And then I just slowly walked back to my car

121
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,359
Speaker 1: and he never stopped sorting sworting. I wonder where he

122
00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,000
Speaker 1: is now that ladies and gentlemen is Tom Cruise? There

123
00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,960
Speaker 1: you go, that's all we needed. Well, I actually had

124
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,680
Speaker 1: a video for you. I think you're going to like

125
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,560
Speaker 1: this okay, because I was blown away at the information

126
00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:48,960
Speaker 1: that I got from good Okay.

127
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,479
Speaker 3: Nancy Drew went public domain in January, and nobody is

128
00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,359
Speaker 3: talking about what that actually means. The version of Nancy

129
00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,760
Speaker 3: Drew that most of us grew up with, the nineteen

130
00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,440
Speaker 3: fifty nine version, it's not the original version. The publishers

131
00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,880
Speaker 3: rewrote her, making her more polite, less careful, and less impulsive.

132
00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,920
Speaker 3: In the nineteen thirties version, she slams doors, talks back,

133
00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,920
Speaker 3: drives into thunderstorms, and climbs into the back of moving

134
00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:21,719
Speaker 3: vans to steal evidence from criminals. She's sixteen years old,

135
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,680
Speaker 3: and she's completely unhinged, but in the best way. And

136
00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:30,159
Speaker 3: as of January twenty twenty six, that original text is freak.

137
00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:34,040
Speaker 3: It's public domain, so I annotated it. The link is

138
00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,800
Speaker 3: in my bio past ten dollars and it comes with

139
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,400
Speaker 3: an evidence lag, a suspect tracker, and a playlist.

140
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,839
Speaker 2: Wow, people are so clever.

141
00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 1: Here's what I love She's like I need people to know.

142
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,640
Speaker 1: Like when she that first half of the video had

143
00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,599
Speaker 1: me already where I was like, what I never.

144
00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,200
Speaker 2: Knew that about Nancy trun now, but now she's.

145
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,080
Speaker 1: Making like a book club or for ten bucks, you

146
00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,799
Speaker 1: can join this thing of like original Nancy Drew book

147
00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:02,840
Speaker 1: club storyline.

148
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,120
Speaker 2: I'm like, we're gonna all read it, right.

149
00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like that's something our listeners would be like.

150
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,440
Speaker 2: I would love to do that. O geen Nancy Drew.

151
00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:12,000
Speaker 2: She wears pants.

152
00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,800
Speaker 1: Can you believe she's so rude? Is to ask a question?

153
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:16,120
Speaker 2: And she has a sword?

154
00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,680
Speaker 1: Nancy Drew with the sword. Yeah, I'm totally doing yes

155
00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,120
Speaker 1: for sure. Her handle is the Incurable Nerd Society. Amazing,

156
00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,600
Speaker 1: so perfect. So go on there. That was from TikTok,

157
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,120
Speaker 1: but it's probably also on Instagram.

158
00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:30,920
Speaker 2: Okay, that's her new book club book that we never

159
00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:31,520
Speaker 2: speak of again.

160
00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't have to get me anything for my birthday,

161
00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,440
Speaker 1: but if you would please join the nineteen thirties badass

162
00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,080
Speaker 1: Nancy Drew book Club.

163
00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:39,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that'd be fun. I love it.

164
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,560
Speaker 1: Oh. I just wanted to recommend really quick, there's a

165
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,280
Speaker 1: TV show on Apple Widow's.

166
00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:51,560
Speaker 2: Tooth Widows Bag three, Widow's be Widows be. Yeah, I

167
00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:52,760
Speaker 2: have written down right here.

168
00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,080
Speaker 1: My brain literally was like, say it past.

169
00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,400
Speaker 2: It's beautiful, beautiful, Matthew Reese. It's like a Stephen King

170
00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,440
Speaker 2: like haunted comedy Comedy Island that's seen in the first

171
00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:11,560
Speaker 2: episode in the Historical Society Museum. Fucking brilliant.

172
00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,440
Speaker 1: Now do you know this is my favorite detail? So

173
00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,240
Speaker 1: the person that created that show is Katie Dippoled, and

174
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,600
Speaker 1: she's the person that went totally viral and did go

175
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,320
Speaker 1: viral every year on Halloween because she has that tweet

176
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,360
Speaker 1: with a picture of herself dressed as the Baba Duke

177
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,360
Speaker 1: and she was like, when you find out it's more

178
00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,280
Speaker 1: of an adult drinks party than a costume party. And

179
00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,920
Speaker 1: she went to a Halloween party dressed fully like the

180
00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,760
Speaker 1: Baba Duke with like crazy pale white face and a hat. Yeah,

181
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,560
Speaker 1: and she's just sitting there while all these normally dressed people.

182
00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,640
Speaker 2: Excuse me, have a party on November one or October

183
00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,800
Speaker 2: thirtieth if you're not wanting people to dress up.

184
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,200
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's very me where it's like,

185
00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 1: you know, the holiday, we're going to take it apart

186
00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,920
Speaker 1: and then Katie dippoled. As I was watching that show

187
00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,000
Speaker 1: and literally laughing out loud. I was like, who the

188
00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,640
Speaker 1: fuck made this? And then when I looked it.

189
00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,120
Speaker 2: Up, it was like, amazing. Yeah, it's so good.

190
00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:00,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, watch it.

191
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,240
Speaker 2: It's really clever and fun. It's so good. Okay. I

192
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,920
Speaker 2: love that we've both had that one too. Three. Exactly

193
00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,680
Speaker 2: Right Media is we have a podcast network. It's called

194
00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:11,520
Speaker 2: Exactly Right Media. Here's some highlights.

195
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,079
Speaker 1: So many great podcasts on this network, but Brief Recess

196
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,199
Speaker 1: one of the greats. And this week, Michael and Melissa

197
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,880
Speaker 1: are tackling truly cursed legal headlines. They will be discussing

198
00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,600
Speaker 1: the recent huntavirus outbreaks, but also there's a case of

199
00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,760
Speaker 1: a secret service agent who was arrested for fondling himself

200
00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,600
Speaker 1: in a hotel hallway, so they're going to talk about

201
00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,720
Speaker 1: that a little bit. Okay. Also the bizarre twists in

202
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,439
Speaker 1: the JP Morgan sex hoax lawsuit.

203
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,400
Speaker 2: I want to know more. That's really interesting. I mean,

204
00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,280
Speaker 2: what's going on? Everything is it's not the right timeline. Oops,

205
00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:45,880
Speaker 2: we skip to a different let's bump it back. NaN's

206
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,360
Speaker 2: fucking timeline. Come on and on. Buried Bones, Paul and

207
00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:54,600
Speaker 2: Kate Head to Tacoma, Washington. Man that place in nineteen

208
00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,199
Speaker 2: forty seven after the murder of a mother and daughter

209
00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,840
Speaker 2: sparks an investigation to a lesser known serial killer, and

210
00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,600
Speaker 2: that reminds me. I started reading Murderland again. Oh, just

211
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:04,440
Speaker 2: because it was so good.

212
00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:06,439
Speaker 1: Did I tell you that I had to stop when

213
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,000
Speaker 1: I was reading it. I was by myself, and I

214
00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 1: had to stop because it was freaking me out so bad.

215
00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 1: It was freaking me out.

216
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,240
Speaker 2: I never thought of Tacoma as a haunted, scary place

217
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:16,439
Speaker 2: until I read Murderland.

218
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,160
Speaker 1: Also, Paul Hols and Kate Winkler Dawson were just in

219
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,920
Speaker 1: these very seats yesterday. I can feel it because they

220
00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,920
Speaker 1: came here to record some shows together and those videos

221
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,200
Speaker 1: will be up soon on Netflix. So great, Okay. Then

222
00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,040
Speaker 1: over on the runaway hit trust Me, Lolan Megan welcome

223
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,199
Speaker 1: back from the Netflix doc of the same name, Trust Me.

224
00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,240
Speaker 1: Their guest nomes Byeline for part two of their conversation

225
00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,120
Speaker 1: about the cult being rated by the FBI, learning Christine

226
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,320
Speaker 1: was the informant and escaping Samuel Bateman's control. So if

227
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,559
Speaker 1: you've watched Trust Me the documentary on Netflix, our podcast

228
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,440
Speaker 1: Trust Me is a cult podcast that happens to have

229
00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,600
Speaker 1: the same name, So just watch that.

230
00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,160
Speaker 2: Because something's in common. And there's a new MFM animated

231
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,880
Speaker 2: out now on YouTube. This time Nick Terry animates the

232
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,320
Speaker 2: busy Body Deer from episode sixty four, where we discover

233
00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,880
Speaker 2: that the eyes watching us in the woods belong not

234
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,840
Speaker 2: to a predator but to an extremely nosy deer. And

235
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,200
Speaker 2: you can find every episode of MFM Animated at YouTube

236
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:19,720
Speaker 2: dot com slash.

237
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,920
Speaker 1: Exactly right media MFM Animated. I highly recommend that TV show. Yeah,

238
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,360
Speaker 1: just like Widow's Bay totally, it's up there.

239
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,720
Speaker 2: Do you need something like lighthearted enjoy us to watch?

240
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,520
Speaker 2: Get in there, in there, all right, I'm first and

241
00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,640
Speaker 2: I have a really interesting story to tell you.

242
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,280
Speaker 1: Hopefully Martinelli's Apple Juice. Everybody.

243
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Collen, happy birthday, thank you. So for today's story,

244
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,480
Speaker 2: we are headed back to a place that we have

245
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,480
Speaker 2: visited many times in my favorite murder lore, Widow's Bay.

246
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:56,080
Speaker 2: Rodmoor Hospital. Oh shoot. It's a sprawling psychiatric hospital about

247
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,000
Speaker 2: two hours east of London, dating back to the Victorian era.

248
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,240
Speaker 2: Maney of them were criminal offenders in the UK who

249
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,319
Speaker 2: have been found to need psychiatric care have been sent there.

250
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,440
Speaker 2: We've covered people who were sent here who sit on

251
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,760
Speaker 2: a spectrum of violence, including the teacup poisoner, Graham Young,

252
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:18,080
Speaker 2: organized criminal Ronnie Cray, painter Richard Dodd, William Chester miner

253
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,559
Speaker 2: who helped compile the Oxford English Dictionary Remember, as well

254
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,439
Speaker 2: as almost completely non violent people who were just dealt

255
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,880
Speaker 2: more difficult hands, like June and Jennifer Gibbons, the Silent

256
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,440
Speaker 2: Twins that you covered. So we have been to broad

257
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,240
Speaker 2: More many times here and today we're back at the hospital.

258
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,400
Speaker 2: It's nineteen eighty nine and we're in the central Hall.

259
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,640
Speaker 2: Usually during the day the space would be full of

260
00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 2: patients seeing visitors. In the evening, it's where the hospital

261
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:49,200
Speaker 2: will occasionally host a disco for patients who can safely socialize. Today, however,

262
00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,800
Speaker 2: it's being used for a production of Hamlet put on

263
00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,360
Speaker 2: by the Royal Shakespeare Company, with its creative director the

264
00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,120
Speaker 2: actor Mark Rylance in the title role. Hell Yes you

265
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,000
Speaker 2: know Mark Rayland's Hell Yes. The audience is mostly broad

266
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,080
Speaker 2: More patients. They have a much more intimate knowledge of

267
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,320
Speaker 2: the play's subject matter, of the violence and mental illness

268
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,600
Speaker 2: of Hamlet, than perhaps any prior audience has ever had.

269
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,800
Speaker 2: In honor of mental health Awareness months. Today we're telling

270
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,880
Speaker 2: the story of how Shakespeare came to Broadmore and how

271
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,679
Speaker 2: those performances affected the patients, staff, the actors in the hospital.

272
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,520
Speaker 1: Wow, Mark Raylands, I got to see him on Broadway.

273
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,840
Speaker 1: It's like Labette or something like that. In it he

274
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,680
Speaker 1: did a fifteen minute monologue Jesus Christ and it just

275
00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,440
Speaker 1: him holding forth And he's one of the most compelling,

276
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,960
Speaker 1: incredible well stage actors. Obviously movie actors, but like on stage,

277
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,080
Speaker 1: you can't take your eyes off him.

278
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,240
Speaker 2: We have a photo of him in Hamlet when he

279
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:49,600
Speaker 2: was younger. If people want to.

280
00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,199
Speaker 1: See it, Oh, yes, right, that's right, Like.

281
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,360
Speaker 2: That is an acteur, acteur acteur, but.

282
00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,880
Speaker 1: Also the thing of like in England. And this was

283
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:00,640
Speaker 1: the one time I got a part and I had

284
00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,520
Speaker 1: to go to Glasgow to do it right. Many of

285
00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,960
Speaker 1: the cast members that I was acting with had gone

286
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,960
Speaker 1: to the Royal Shakespeare Academy and it is it unnerved me.

287
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,679
Speaker 1: From the first moment I stepped into the rehearsal room,

288
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:15,199
Speaker 1: I was just like, what am I doing?

289
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,720
Speaker 2: I wanted you're a Sacramento State dropout, come on Shakespeare

290
00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:20,600
Speaker 2: Company Royal.

291
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 1: Although Tom Hanks did go to Saxton and he did

292
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,600
Speaker 1: drama there there you go, and I think he graduated.

293
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:27,080
Speaker 2: I don't know.

294
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, but look at you now, but I

295
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:32,560
Speaker 1: just have so much respect for that.

296
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,680
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a big, huge, important thing. Yes, like Julliard.

297
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,520
Speaker 2: So the main source for the story is a book

298
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,600
Speaker 2: called Shakespeare Comes to Broadmoor, which was compiled by the

299
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,280
Speaker 2: doctor who spearheaded this program, doctor Murray Cox. And the

300
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,400
Speaker 2: rest of the sources are in the show notes and

301
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,240
Speaker 2: also shout out to Molly Smith and Ali Elkin, my

302
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,200
Speaker 2: wonderful researcher for this idea. I just I wouldn't have

303
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,200
Speaker 2: stumbled upon this and I just love it. Yeah, it's

304
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,240
Speaker 2: good fun. So this all begins with psychiatrist named Murray Cox.

305
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,040
Speaker 2: He's born in Birmingham, England, in itteen thirty one. He

306
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,040
Speaker 2: goes to Saint Catherine's College at Cambridge, then trains as

307
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,320
Speaker 2: a doctor at London Hospital. He works as a general

308
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,480
Speaker 2: practitioner for about ten years before becoming a psychiatrist, and

309
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,400
Speaker 2: he first works as a forensic psychiatrist at a prison

310
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,000
Speaker 2: before taking a position at Broadmoor in nineteen seventy, when

311
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,720
Speaker 2: he's about thirty nine years old. So throughout his career

312
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,920
Speaker 2: at Broadmoor, Murray Cox becomes known for three things. His

313
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,640
Speaker 2: insistence in seeing the humanity of each of his patients,

314
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,960
Speaker 2: which sadly is a kind of rare thing, seems like

315
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,120
Speaker 2: these those days and these days maybe his Christian faith,

316
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:45,560
Speaker 2: and his affinity for the theater, for theater, especially for

317
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:46,440
Speaker 2: Shakespeare's place.

318
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,320
Speaker 1: The way you said at the version, I was like

319
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:49,040
Speaker 1: for the theater.

320
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,800
Speaker 2: Theater you may remember from English class if you weren't

321
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,000
Speaker 2: sleeping through it, or from Shakespeare in Love that in

322
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,680
Speaker 2: Elizabeth in London, poor people who led pretty miserable lives

323
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,520
Speaker 2: were able to get standing room tickets on the floor

324
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,680
Speaker 2: at the Globe Theater to see live performances of Shakespeare's play,

325
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,800
Speaker 2: which was a huge deal. It makes doctor Cox consider

326
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,240
Speaker 2: that theater may have had some therapeutic effect. Even then,

327
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,280
Speaker 2: Doctor Cox presents these ideas at a conference of Shakespeare's scholars,

328
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,600
Speaker 2: and that's when he first meets Mark Rylance. So they

329
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 2: get coffee together in May of nineteen eighty nine, right

330
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,440
Speaker 2: around when the Royal Shakespeare Company is about to perform Hamlet.

331
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 2: Doctor Cox tells Riolence that he discusses Shakespeare with patients

332
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,280
Speaker 2: sometimes in their sessions, especially the ones who remember reading

333
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,080
Speaker 2: the plays in school, and he says he has frank

334
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,040
Speaker 2: discussions with those patients about the violence in the plays

335
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:46,120
Speaker 2: and the portrayals of madness quote unquote, and whether they

336
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,320
Speaker 2: can relate, and so he uses them as a tool

337
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,440
Speaker 2: to get them to open up. During that coffee meeting,

338
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 2: Riolence has the idea of bringing a production of Hamlet

339
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,280
Speaker 2: to the hospital and it totally makes you think of

340
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,320
Speaker 2: when the Cramps went to a psychiatric constitution as well

341
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 2: and played like their best show. Yeah, there's a video

342
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:04,400
Speaker 2: of that online.

343
00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,600
Speaker 1: It feels like so truly like we're being artists here

344
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,080
Speaker 1: when you do stuff like that, where you're like, we're

345
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,919
Speaker 1: not sitting here talking about like how are we going

346
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,159
Speaker 1: to make it whatever. It's like Mark Rylands is like,

347
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,600
Speaker 1: how do I take this talent and do something that

348
00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:20,680
Speaker 1: for the good?

349
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,080
Speaker 2: Totally And it's like the importance of art in mental

350
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:28,640
Speaker 2: health and that people actually recognize that is so important. Yeah,

351
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,800
Speaker 2: you know nowadays it doesn't even happen, but back then

352
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,280
Speaker 2: it's really it's really impressive. Yeah. So, after some logistical

353
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,520
Speaker 2: planning and some back and forth, it is agreed that

354
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,080
Speaker 2: for one night only. The Royal Shakespeare Company will bring

355
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,720
Speaker 2: its production of Hamlet to Broadmoor Hospital. The performance takes

356
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,960
Speaker 2: place in August of nineteen eighty nine. I was just

357
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 2: nine years old. Oh yeah, nineteen okay, and so here

358
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,080
Speaker 2: we are nine and nineteen live in our lives. I

359
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,719
Speaker 2: thought it would be interesting to those who weren't alive

360
00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,600
Speaker 2: then and don't have the PTSD that we have, and

361
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,320
Speaker 2: that everyone from that time has to understand what a

362
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,439
Speaker 2: turbulent shit show the world was at that moment, and

363
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 2: why having this moment of art and peace would have

364
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:15,040
Speaker 2: been so impactful to the patients, Because I mean, I

365
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,440
Speaker 2: heard nineteen eighty nine and I'm like, oh, that was hard.

366
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,159
Speaker 2: And then I realized, like, not everyone knows who listens

367
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,000
Speaker 2: to this was live then, right, So here are some

368
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,600
Speaker 2: fucked up things and shout out to Wikipedia for the help.

369
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,879
Speaker 2: The massively destructive Exxon Bealdees spill had just happened. Colombia's

370
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,199
Speaker 2: war on drugs, where Colombian drug cartels declared total and

371
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,600
Speaker 2: absolute war against the government, was raging, and in August

372
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,120
Speaker 2: of nineteen eighty nine, it was a critical and chaotic

373
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 2: turning point in the final months of the Cold war,

374
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,439
Speaker 2: with anti communist revolutions happening in Central and Eastern Europe

375
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 2: and the fall of the Berlin Wall just a couple

376
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,680
Speaker 2: months away. Yeah, so is very turbulent. I have more

377
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,880
Speaker 2: more horrible things. The pro democracy student demonstrations in Beijing's

378
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,199
Speaker 2: Tianeman Square had just been violently and publicly suppressed by

379
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,199
Speaker 2: the Chinese government. Apartheid in South Africa was raging, with

380
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,639
Speaker 2: a seventy year old Nelson Mandela sentenced to life in

381
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 2: prison for conspiring to overthrow the state. There's more. The

382
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,920
Speaker 2: troubles in North Ireland were violently raging, with the provisional

383
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:19,040
Speaker 2: IRA conducting paramilitary campaigns on British military targets and civilians

384
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:20,160
Speaker 2: in the British mainland.

385
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,800
Speaker 1: What well, I just want you know, we're talking about

386
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 1: the IRA targeting the British. They should have been there, no,

387
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 1: one hundred percent. I mean if they had just gone

388
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:29,600
Speaker 1: there nobody.

389
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,399
Speaker 2: Yes, it was not always started, it was not on

390
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,640
Speaker 2: a way street. Doesn't happen. And then let's not get

391
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,879
Speaker 2: started on Serbian Kosovo or the Middle East and the

392
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,919
Speaker 2: Gulf War that's about to pop off. But don't worry.

393
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 2: Just to end this on that like but.

394
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 1: There's also a hole in the ozone layer.

395
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 2: Right. Oh yeah, we were freaking out about that, remember that. Yep.

396
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 2: But just to cap that with something positive, Taylor Swift

397
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:51,920
Speaker 2: is born that year, so it's going to be okay.

398
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,960
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't realize what it's true Swift you.

399
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 2: Are, Everything's going to be okay, okay. Well, her album's

400
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,840
Speaker 2: called nineteen eighty nine, so like, I'm not Oh, I'm

401
00:19:58,840 --> 00:19:59,400
Speaker 2: not brilliant.

402
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 1: Oh I just just a reference.

403
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 2: So we're here in Broadmoor Central Hall under the disco

404
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,680
Speaker 2: ball that's used for the hospital discos. Take me there,

405
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,919
Speaker 2: and it's you're gonna love this. It's an in the

406
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 2: round performance, which we intimately know about because we did

407
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 2: that on like our first or second leg of our

408
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 2: tour in Arizona.

409
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: And they're doing it for Hamlet.

410
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so tell everyone who doesn't know what in the

411
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:27,119
Speaker 2: round means.

412
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 1: I believe it was the Celebrity theater in either Phoenix

413
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 1: or Tucson.

414
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:33,400
Speaker 2: I think was Phoenix Phoenix.

415
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,479
Speaker 1: And we didn't know until we arrived that night that

416
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 1: this would be not just a stage in the round,

417
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 1: which means everyone can see you at all times.

418
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 2: There's no you can like a gladiator. You're in the

419
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 2: middle of a fucking gladiator theater. They're like no.

420
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 1: But also that this stage rotated, so it wasn't a

421
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 1: still round stage where you could kind of be like, well,

422
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 1: now I'm going to walk over here.

423
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just moved there.

424
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,400
Speaker 1: And it was really slow, kind of like the old

425
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 1: holiday and in Hollywood they had the rotating restaurant. We're

426
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 1: just kind of like, it's not crazy, but it's also

427
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: not still right, and we were out of our minds.

428
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,160
Speaker 2: It was the bustlat It was so hilarious. I don't

429
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,640
Speaker 2: remember anything about that time, and I fucking will never

430
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:15,680
Speaker 2: forget being in the round.

431
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 1: I will never forget the two girls that I used

432
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,160
Speaker 1: as my twelve o'clock because I was like.

433
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 2: Okay, now we're back here again. Yeah. I definitely got seasick. Okay. Yeah,

434
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 2: So all patients and staff sit around the actors who

435
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 2: perform in the central circle, and so this new venue

436
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 2: is a bit of an adjustment. At first, the actors

437
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 2: had been performing for two thousand people in Shakespeare's hometown

438
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 2: of Strapford upon Avon, so they're kind of figuring out

439
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,159
Speaker 2: how allowed to be like. But it quickly becomes a

440
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 2: very intimate and for that reason powerful performance. The actors

441
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,959
Speaker 2: say they can feel a palpable difference in this performance.

442
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 2: Certain speeches don't seem to have quite their usual reception,

443
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,199
Speaker 2: but others that normally wouldn't get me tension or you know,

444
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:06,679
Speaker 2: any kind of response response are imbued with a newfound potency.

445
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 2: So after the performance, the actors have a talkback session

446
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,719
Speaker 2: with the patients and the staff, and it's clear that

447
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,199
Speaker 2: this has been a positive experience for everyone. Mark Rylance

448
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 2: says he's sad to go back to his normal performances

449
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 2: after that. The performance at Broadmoor had been such a

450
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 2: welcome escape, and in some ways the audience there could

451
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 2: relate to the content so much more powerfully than typical

452
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 2: theater goers. Yeah right, So if you remember the play,

453
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 2: I'm sure you do, but let me just say Hamlet's

454
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 2: mental health and Ophelia's mental health are central elements. In

455
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 2: the end, Hamlet forces his uncle to confront the fact

456
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 2: that he committed a murder by making him watch a

457
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,679
Speaker 2: play about it. So this is very powerful in a

458
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 2: room that contains people who have committed similar crimes, and

459
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,919
Speaker 2: it seems like this play has touched people's consciences in

460
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 2: a way nothing really has before. So the Royal Shakespeare

461
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 2: Company goes back to their scheduled performances in Stratford. Rylance says, quote,

462
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 2: it was awful going back to Stratford after that, going

463
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 2: back to the audiences, they felt much more in prison

464
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 2: the audiences. Funnily enough, in Stratford, I always imagine that

465
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,880
Speaker 2: you are talking to people on the level on which

466
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 2: they want to communicate, and that's fine, but it was

467
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 2: difficult after Broadmore, where we thought we were having a

468
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 2: wonderful conversation end quote. On the patient side, the performance

469
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 2: has a deep.

470
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 1: On the patient's side, they thought the performances were lacking.

471
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 2: They actually hated it, and so they decided to put

472
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 2: their own performance.

473
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: They're so critical about the acting where it's just like

474
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 1: I just didn't believe it. I could do it better.

475
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: That's how this podcast came.

476
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 2: On the patient side, the performance has deep and lasting impacts.

477
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: Doctor Cox will later write, quote, the insurgence of the

478
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 2: Hamlet Company and its non judgmental energies opened doors of

479
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 2: possibility which have not closed end quote. There are the

480
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 2: therapeutic effects of seeing live theater, of course, but there's

481
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:58,679
Speaker 2: also impacts to the patient's self esteem by participating in

482
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 2: something that the rest of the outside world gets to

483
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: participate in as well. I treated like humans. Yeah. The

484
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 2: Royal Shakespeare Company tours with this production, mounting it in

485
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 2: several different locations. So when the London leg of the

486
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 2: tour is reviewed in the Guardian, patients at Broadmoor read

487
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 2: the review and get to know exactly what the critic

488
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,479
Speaker 2: is talking about. So they're participating. And one patient, now,

489
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 2: David Caldwell, writes a letter to the editor he's a

490
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 2: patient of Broadmore, saying quote, I did not see Hamlet

491
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 2: staged at the Barbicane or the Old vic. The RSC's

492
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 2: stage was the wooden floor of the Central Hall here

493
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 2: in Broadmore. The only scenery was the nicotine stained walls

494
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 2: and the backdrop of age loyal drapes. Mark Rylance was

495
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 2: able to capture every aspect of a person's slip into

496
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 2: the world of psychopathic, manipulative paranoia. Many of us here

497
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 2: in Broadmore are able to understand Hamlet's disturbed state because

498
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 2: we have experienced such traumas. We are most grateful for

499
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 2: the cast spectacular efforts in staging Hamlet, or us for

500
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 2: free of charge, and on one of their infrequent days off.

501
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: I didn't.

502
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: I mean I was kind of thinking about that, but

503
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: then the idea your story is not some you know,

504
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,479
Speaker 1: maybe in your family you're the only one, or maybe

505
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 1: in your town you were the crazy person. Yea, your

506
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: story is as old as time, right, this is what

507
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: people have been dealing with since the beginning of time.

508
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 2: Totally, and someone in a regular theatergoer would couldn't can't understand.

509
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 2: You have to understand, right, they can watch it purely

510
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 2: as entertainment rather than like, you know.

511
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: It's like a little telegram from Shakespeare to those patients. Totally,

512
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: over hundreds of years. I mean that must have felt

513
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: wild incredible.

514
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 2: Yeah it did.

515
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: I loved it, Okay.

516
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 2: So the experience is so positive for everyone that the

517
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: Royal Shakespeare Company returns in nineteen ninety to perform Romeo

518
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 2: and Juliet, and in nineteen ninety one the Royal National

519
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,719
Speaker 2: Theater performs king Lear. In king Lear or Brian Cox

520
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 2: from Succession plays the title role and Sir Ian McKellen

521
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 2: plays the Earl of Kent. So late, yeah, I photos

522
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 2: these are two of the greatest actors of all, you know,

523
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 2: modern actors of all time? Yes, and they're yes, Bran Cox,

524
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: amazing right. Yeah.

525
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: Also like I wish that people cared about acting more

526
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: in America the way they do over there, because it's

527
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: like a it's a true trade. It's like you go

528
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: into it, it's you're respected, it's like you want to

529
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 1: be doracle.

530
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 2: It's not just like money making.

531
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen that thing where Judy Dench was

532
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: on Graham Norton and they ask her to just perform

533
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: a little bit of Shakespeare and she just does this

534
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: thing and she goes like zip and then she's like

535
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: speaking and talking, but it's the most compelling. You don't

536
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: know what she's saying per se. Yeah, and it's the

537
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 1: most compelling thing. It's like the people who know how

538
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: to do that right are like wizards.

539
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 2: No, that's so true. So all of these plays that

540
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 2: they are staging deal with violence and mental illness described

541
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 2: as madness in Shakespeare's language, and all the actors talk

542
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 2: about how the broadmore audience would react to lines that

543
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: went over everyone else's heads. Brian Cox and Ian McKellen

544
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 2: talk about how the experience reinvigorated their passion for the plays.

545
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 2: McClellan writes that the actors quote, we're reminded of the

546
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 2: purpose of playing, which can too often be obscured by

547
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 2: the pressures of first nights and of long runs. Who

548
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 2: do we do these plays for anonymous audiences whom we

549
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 2: never meet, directors who we meet all too often, or

550
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: drama critics who sometimes tell us they're bored with Hamlet

551
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: End quote. A reporter goes along to the performance of

552
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 2: King Lear and notes how it moved the audience. Afterward,

553
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 2: a doctor tells her quote, patients will go on talking

554
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 2: about these performances for months, even years afterward. They come

555
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 2: up in dreams and therapeutic sessions. End quote. As these

556
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: productions continue a broad more a drama program there also

557
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 2: becomes more robust under a new creative unit that uses

558
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 2: the arts for therapy. Is very positive effects for patients,

559
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: and it must be I have to just note this.

560
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: It's around the same time, and it sounds like part

561
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: of this effort comes through Jimmy Savile. No, so like

562
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 2: the arts program, Like we can't just freeze over that. Oh, no, scuff,

563
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:18,120
Speaker 2: it's tainted.

564
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: So say that is one of the many hideous things

565
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: about people like Jimmy Savile where because you are a

566
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: wolf in sheep's clothing and your beer, basically exploiting this

567
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: opportunity that actually is very needed and wanted of people

568
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: volunteering and helping in places like that where maybe everybody

569
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: doesn't care as much.

570
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: Right, like you tainted it for everyone for life. Yeah,

571
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: don't be a bucking monster. So well publicized improvements to

572
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 2: conditions at Broadmore inevitably leads to backlash. Some people in

573
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: Broadmore have committed violent and horrible acts, and there's an

574
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: attitude among the public that the patients there are living

575
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 2: the high life on tax payer money. Before King Lee,

576
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 2: a Conservative member of parliament, attacks the initiative, saying, quote,

577
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 2: why on earth should taxpayers fund the RSC to perform

578
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 2: to a bunch of psychopathic killers? End quote. And it's

579
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: like that's the attitude that leads people to be in

580
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: prison for life and in and out.

581
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: And well and also it's just it's the easiest attitude

582
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: to have.

583
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: Totally.

584
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: They're all bad the end.

585
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they don't deserve good things.

586
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like we've done this show enough to be like,

587
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: oh right, there's so much nuance.

588
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no humanity in that way of thinking, not.

589
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: Whatsoever, because also it's like maybe there are killers there.

590
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: What about all the people that got put there when

591
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: they were teenagers? Yeah, because their mental illness makes it

592
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: so that someone has to take care of them.

593
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: And even the violence, you have to say, like where

594
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: did they come from? What advantages and disadvantages do they

595
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: have that other people didn't? Yeah, yeah, it's nuanced. Yeah,

596
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 2: So it doesn't seem like there's a direct link between

597
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 2: this backlash and an end to the performances. But the

598
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: professional performances by the National shit tkex Sphere Companies at

599
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: Broadmoor are limited to these three performances in the late

600
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 2: eighties and early nineties, but the use of theater and

601
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: the arts in therapy has lived on at Broadmore. We

602
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: don't know about any of the identities of the patients

603
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 2: who saw the plays other than David who wrote that

604
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 2: letter to the Guardian, so we don't know if any

605
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 2: of the people we have covered on the show were

606
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 2: present at any of the performances. However, Ron Cray and

607
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 2: June and Jennifer Gibbons would have been there at that time,

608
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: so it's possible that they saw those performances.

609
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to write a musical about the audience of

610
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: that girl.

611
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 2: Come on, do it, sing us the opening song.

612
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: I'm Ronnie Cray and I don't care what you say. Hey, hey, hey,

613
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: it's easy to rhyme.

614
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 2: Len you don't have a time, don't have the time.

615
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: Many times, this is the worst song we've ever written.

616
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: We're gonna work on it. Shakespeare's plays are often compared

617
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 2: to a mirror, reflecting the audience so that they can

618
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: see their own lives in the stories. Doctor Cox says

619
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,479
Speaker 2: this quality is what gives them their therapeutic value. He says, quote,

620
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: in therapy, we try to help what has been buried

621
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 2: to become conscious, but that's only half the story. What

622
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: becomes conscious has to become integrated so that can accept

623
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 2: my aggression, depression, little self esteem. It's making something you

624
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 2: can't tolerate into an integrated part of yourself. That's like

625
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 2: that end quote. And that's actually what my therapist calls

626
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 2: and what is called parts work, which is a really

627
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,239
Speaker 2: interesting kind of therapy. There's a great book on it.

628
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: And what is that that you're just there's many parts.

629
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 2: Of you, yeah, and whatever one is leading is you know,

630
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 2: like you're acting the way that helped you at one

631
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 2: time to get through life, probably as a child, and

632
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 2: you're still figuring that out. But there's other parts of you,

633
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 2: including that part that needs to be addressed and needs

634
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 2: to be shown. They're safe now and they're taking care

635
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 2: of not just like suppressed. So suppressing the angry part

636
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 2: of you isn't going to get rid of it. But

637
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: understanding why that anger is there and what happened when

638
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: it came like and what happened in your life when

639
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,239
Speaker 2: you needed it is the way to work through it.

640
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: Happy birthday, Targia.

641
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: That was beautiful.

642
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 2: Thank you.

643
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: I mean that's so true. It is so true. It's

644
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I was in therapy for years before I

645
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: could really get that. It's because it's really hard, and

646
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: it is that kind of thing where it's like much

647
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: like watching a play, you have to look back and

648
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: tell yourself different stories about the experiences that you've had,

649
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: which is can be hard in and of itself.

650
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're contextualizing all the history and as that personality,

651
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 2: and that personality might not be correct about what they're assessing,

652
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: like you can you know what I mean, it's just

653
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 2: or it's just one version exactly. Yeah, so it's called

654
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 2: the books called parts work, and to put it better

655
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 2: at doctor Cox quote the tempest and says, quote this

656
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: thing of darkness, I acknowledge mine end quote. And that

657
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 2: is the story of how Shakespeare came to broad Moore.

658
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, a mental health awareness month.

659
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: I love that story.

660
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't that cool? Thank you Ali and Molly

661
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 2: for suggesting it. Whatever. Great, yeah, great job. Yeah.

662
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: Also just those actors, like, because I bet you there's

663
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: about twenty five other actors that are like lesser known

664
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: that would have been in I'm going to absolutely look

665
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: up who was in all those productions and.

666
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 2: Who knows what it did to them?

667
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: Right exactly, Because like when you go out and you're acting,

668
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: you're just like, okay, I'm facing this way, three quarters

669
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: this way.

670
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: It's the same pretty much.

671
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: You're playing silences that you know will be there. Right,

672
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: here's the big part where they clap for it, holding

673
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: up a skull or whatever the fuck it is. And

674
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: suddenly now it's like it's probably very similar to but

675
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: they would never do this doing it for a grammar school. Yeah,

676
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: where it's like now they're laughing at some weird thing whatever. Wow,

677
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: that was great. Yeah, thank you Mark Rylance for the win.

678
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

679
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: Okay, Well we're going to go in a different direction. Please,

680
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: We're going to come back to America where you were

681
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: born and raised. Pay your taxes, shut out the iris.

682
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 2: God damn it.

683
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. If you didn't pay yours, that means I didn't

684
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: pay mine. This is a story that I was going

685
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: to do when we were on tour, and I was

686
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: so excited about it, and then but it came down

687
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: to it was the Chicago show, but this is a

688
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: Wisconsin story, okay, and so the Chicago story is a

689
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: little more Chicago y. And so we saved this one.

690
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: And finally Molly Smith, again our producer, a great producer,

691
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 1: Molly Smith, was like, what if we do that one

692
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: on your birthday? It was like, that's such a good idea.

693
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: Oh God, what is it? Well, it's basically it was

694
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 1: just the thirty fifth anniversary of this event this month.

695
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: It happened on Friday May third, nineteen ninety one, around

696
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: the same time as your event. It happened on the

697
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: east side of Madison, Wisconsin, at a business called Central

698
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: Storage and Warehouse, which is a massive storage complex consisting

699
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: of five buildings inside these buildings, they store an unimaginable

700
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: amount of food and dairy products. The Associated Press reports

701
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: that it's about fifty three million pounds of food, including

702
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: quote wieners, thank sword to God, that's the ap wieners, wieners,

703
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: cranberries at about fourteen million pounds of surplus government butter

704
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: and cheese.

705
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 2: I have a feeling I know what happens when heavy

706
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 2: stuff is in the warehouse.

707
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: Maron added this note, which is so, maren, fifty three

708
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: million pounds is very roughly the weight of one hundred

709
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 1: and seventy blue whales.

710
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 2: Thank you. That's a lot.

711
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: That's that's several pods of blue whales.

712
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

713
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: So on this day in nineteen ninety one, about twenty

714
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: or so CSW Central Storage and Warehouse employees are clocked in.

715
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: It's the afternoon on a Friday, so the end of

716
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: a long work week is just around the corner. But

717
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,760
Speaker 1: things are about to take a very unexpected and unfortunate turn,

718
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: because somewhere in this massive complex, a small spark will ignite,

719
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: and soon it'll build into a fire that will be

720
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: among the most destructive in Madison's history. This is the

721
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: story of the nineteen ninety one Wisconsin Butterfire.

722
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: Butterfire. I was totally thinking you were going sinkhole. Oh

723
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 2: you were like it was really heavy. I was like, yeah,

724
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 2: I know what happens when things are heavy.

725
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a great idea.

726
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 2: This what No, I'm like, this is it.

727
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: I also feel like the story of a sinkhole is

728
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: just like it's saying it's a sinkhole, it's sank and

729
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: then it's a whole. Some cars fell in and I

730
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 1: hope people didn't die.

731
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, okay, fire love it? I hate it, hate it,

732
00:36:59,239 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 2: hate it.

733
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: We got a The articles used as sources today are

734
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: some from the Associated Press and the Wisconsin State Journal Archives.

735
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: There was a twenty twenty two piece by journalist John

736
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: Onkin that ran in the Wisconsin State Farmer, which just

737
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: precious name.

738
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 2: For a new love of that one, Let's keep it alive.

739
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: And then a nineteen ninety one piece from a magazine

740
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: called Fire Engineering.

741
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 2: Wow.

742
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 1: Home Gym is a subscriber entitled Central Storage Warehouse Fire Madison, Wisconsin. Okay,

743
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: grabby headlines, get readers. The rest of the sources are

744
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: in our show notes. I started off by saying, have

745
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: you ever tried to brown butter. I thought it smelled

746
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: really good at versus what I was thinking. I bet

747
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: it did brown butter rice, chrisp retreats. Next time you

748
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: make rice, Chris retreats. Everyone brown lightly brown, the butter round.

749
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 1: That butter life changing. But you got to stand there.

750
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: It's like a thing. There's all these fats, and there's

751
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: all this chemical reaction and all this stuff to it.

752
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: And then if you wait one second too long for Burnett.

753
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 1: So let's just all get in our minds in that

754
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: way of what we're dealing with here. Okay, So what

755
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: really happens is this. The battery in one of the forklifts,

756
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: sparks and starts a small fire in the one warehouse.

757
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: The sprinkler system immediately kicks on. A couple of employees

758
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: hit the flames with fire extinguishers, but they can't put

759
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: it out. Luckily, there is a fire station one block away,

760
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: so those guys arrive immediately.

761
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 2: They better.

762
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: So some firefighters attack this fire with hoses. Others make

763
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: sure all the building's doors are shut so no oxygen

764
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: gets in to feed the blaze. Now the firefighters are

765
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: feeling like they have things under control, but there is

766
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: a problem. The walls of this building have flammable insulation,

767
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: so when the fire gets to the walls, it just

768
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: immediately shoots up to the ceiling and burns a large

769
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: hole in the roof. And it's a windy day in

770
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 1: Madison this day. Once that whole even starts, fresh air

771
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: rushes in, it feeds the blaze, and the fire starts

772
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: to grow exponentially. So basically it all starts like a campfire,

773
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: a small flame, someone blows on it, and now you're

774
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: having the best senior Spring week beach kre Ever, that's

775
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: my funny joke that I wrote it at the end

776
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: of that line. A key difference from your typical campfire, though,

777
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: is that in this scenario, the kindling is millions of

778
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: pounds of oily, fatty foods.

779
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 2: Right fat that's bad, Right, it's bad.

780
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 1: It's bad because it's a great fuel.

781
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 2: Right.

782
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: But it also the smell, which we will get to. Okay,

783
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: so Madison East Fire Department Chief Raunch smellser will tell reporters, quote,

784
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: what we got here is a massive grease fire. Oh

785
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: wait sorry, oh yeah, what we got here is a

786
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:50,959
Speaker 1: massive grease fier.

787
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: Eh it's a Canadian.

788
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: Well, I had to come hard to come up from

789
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: wherever I was at the beginning. Yeah, and Madison and

790
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: Fire Department spokesperson Tom Olshansky will add quote, when you

791
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: splash water on a grease fire, it just splashes back

792
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: at you.

793
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 2: We learned a long time ago, you're supposed to use baking,

794
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: baking soda. Soda.

795
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to go back over that to fix the

796
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: damage home Jim and I did with that misstatement that

797
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: we made basically going to listen. No one's going to

798
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,959
Speaker 1: listen this time. It's our no, no that one. Oh, okay, okay, great.

799
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: So these fire crews have to be strategic because they

800
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: can't just go in douse the flames with water that

801
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,879
Speaker 1: will make it worse. But even the most seasoned firefighter

802
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: on the scene, and there will eventually be seventy firefighters

803
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: fighting this fire, none of them can claim to have

804
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: ever fought a warehouse sized grease fire. Before they have

805
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: to get creative. Some crews tackle the central grease fire,

806
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 1: so the one that's right on top of the melted

807
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: food products inside the warehouse. Others are hosing down the

808
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 1: outside of the building, the roof and any adjacent buildings

809
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: keep to keep the fire from spreading, and those guys

810
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 1: can use as much water as they want to, and

811
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: they do at a rate of five thousand gallons a minute.

812
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: Oh my god, but the fire keeps burning and expanding.

813
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: And since home Jim and I really messed it up

814
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 1: the first time, let's use this teaching moment to give

815
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: the correct information of how to extinguish a grease fire.

816
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: Do not use water on those flames, okay. Do not

817
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: move the burning pot or pan that you have this

818
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: grease fire in like a lot of people try to

819
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: move it to the sink and the fire goes up

820
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: places like the grease will splash. Okay, if it's safe

821
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: to do so, turn off the heat source. That's a

822
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: big one people forget totally. Yeah, and if the fire

823
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: is small enough, you can cover the flames with a

824
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 1: lid or baking sheet. Only something metal, nothing.

825
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 2: Glass, right, or like, throw a towel over it?

826
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: No towels? I bet you that's did my dad say

827
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: throw a towel?

828
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 2: No? But I feel like I would throw a towel

829
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 2: at something Yep, fire, something metal.

830
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: You can definitely pour baking soda on top. I think

831
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: that's the thing they really recommend. Yeah, but if the

832
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: fire isn't going out or it's spreading, you can go

833
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: ahead and grab that fire extinguisher you don't know how

834
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: to use. Also, don't be a hero. If the flames

835
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: spread or you feel unsafe in any way, just get

836
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 1: outside and call nine one one.

837
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 2: I own like five or six fire extinguishers.

838
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: Now do you Yeah, do you have the You know,

839
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,280
Speaker 1: one thing they say is cut that little piece of plastic,

840
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: the plastic ring.

841
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you can just get it going. It's gonna

842
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: do that. Still, it's still in the box.

843
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 1: When you it's up in the attic. But the fire

844
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: we're talking about today does not go easy, of course.

845
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: In fact, no matter how the firefighters approach it, it

846
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: just keeps growing and it becomes so massive. The smoke

847
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: can be seen from miles and the heat is so

848
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: intense from this fire that drivers that are driving by

849
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: on the nearby Inner State Freeway can feel it from

850
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: inside their car. Oh no, seek a look at what

851
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: it looked like.

852
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 2: Whoa, that's a big fucking fire.

853
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: Yeprut Yeah, Central Storage. And also their mascot is a

854
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: polar Bear. Cocaine bear, poor cocaine Bear. So one of

855
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: the few silver linings here is that all of the

856
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: staffers at CSW have evacuated the building. Only one employee

857
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: has to be treated for minor injuries. So as far

858
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: as good news, we've got that and that's about it. Yeah,

859
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: because the closer you get to see USW, the more

860
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: hellish the scene is. There's a thick smoke and ash

861
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: covering everything. But since the source of this fire's processed foods,

862
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: the smell it gives off is disgusting, and the flames

863
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: reportedly reach eventually three hundred feet into the sky, about

864
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: the height of the Statue of Liberty. No, we have

865
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: a different angle just to see kind of how big

866
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:54,720
Speaker 1: this thing.

867
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 2: Is to start. Wow, that's tiny, little fire.

868
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: I mean a little fire truck over there for scale.

869
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 2: Nothing.

870
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: So now it's six pm and it's three hours into

871
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 1: this ordeal. Firefighters are working hard to contain as blaze,

872
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,879
Speaker 1: but they are struggling, and as things continue to deteriorate,

873
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: a new threat evolves. The flames have reached a second

874
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: building in that complex, and they're creeping toward a third

875
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: And these buildings store hazardous chemicals that are used by

876
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: CSW for everything from cleaning to fueling, refrigeration, systems including

877
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: sulfuric acid, potassium hydroxide, and ammonia.

878
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: Are they flammable?

879
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they're bad. So there's a new threat that

880
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: if the fire reaches those storage areas, there will be

881
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: not just more fire, a dangerous cloud of fiery, toxic fumes.

882
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 1: So as the exterior battle to contain the blaze continues,

883
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 1: their crews sent into those at risk buildings to shut

884
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: off any systems that might circulate those dangerous chemicals, like

885
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: the refrigeration systems, and if possible, they physically haul the

886
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: chemical reserves out of those buildings to safety. This whole

887
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: fire and this whole disaster has like a whack a

888
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: mole energy because the problems just keep coming up as

889
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: ones go down. Reports vary on when this happens, but

890
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: sometime between eight and eleven o'clock at night, the building

891
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: where the fire first started collapses.

892
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: Wow.

893
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: And when it does, a wave of melted lard, butter,

894
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: and cheese comes pouring out of the building, with some

895
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 1: sources claiming that it's two to three feet high when

896
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 1: it does.

897
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 2: But butter, cheese, and lard, Oh god, ew, look at it.

898
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: That's all like melted processed food and butter and margarine

899
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: is so bad.

900
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 2: That's gross. Okay.

901
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: So Stephen Davis, who is the city of Madison's fire

902
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: chief at the time, will describe it as quote literally,

903
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: a river of butter just comes pouring out.

904
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: What do you even do? Like I would just be like,

905
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 2: this is I can't do anything.

906
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: Those firemen, I mean like they're swearing, they're laughing for sure,

907
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: they're making references to other people's cooking. Yeah, this is

908
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 1: like that's spaginning. You made the other That's just my opinion,

909
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:24,720
Speaker 1: all editorial. It is important to say all the firefighters

910
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: make it through this building collapse unscathed, although the fire

911
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: is still raging. The tidal wave of melted food does

912
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: seem to dilute the most concentrated parts of that grease fire,

913
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: which is great. It takes disgusting sludge to put out

914
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: a grease fire. But we're talking about fifteen million pounds

915
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: of liquefied dairy. So now they have all new problems

916
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: because you saw how much goo there was and how

917
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: nasty it looked. One report notes that quote one firefighter

918
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 1: inadvertently sank up to his chest in butter and nearly

919
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: lost his boots as comrades pulled him to safety end quote,

920
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: and another describes it as quote discussing to look at

921
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 1: difficult to slog through.

922
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 2: Tom, get out of the fucking pudd all get out.

923
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: Of there, God damn, get me out of here, you guys.

924
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: The Associated press will write about what they call the

925
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 1: quote traces of black comedy, as these firefighters are forced

926
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: to trudge through the slop that has now made everything

927
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: incredibly slippery. Oh, some hoses slip right out of their hands,

928
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 1: when others are able to hold onto the hoses. When

929
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: they turn the water on, they get knocked backwards by

930
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: the forest. When they try to get back up, they're

931
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: slipping and sliding.

932
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,280
Speaker 2: All over the place. That's a three Stooges episode. It completely.

933
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, the excess water runoff is mixing with this oily goo,

934
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 1: so streams of contaminated burnt buttery glop are just flowing

935
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: downward from the complex. Some of this but eventually pools

936
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: in low areas up to five feet in some place,

937
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:10,359
Speaker 1: while other streams stretch onto nearby roads. The hardest road

938
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 1: hit is the one that runs along outside CSW, which

939
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: is called Cottage Grove Road. It becomes so dangerously slick

940
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,760
Speaker 1: that a city engineer describes it as quote like ice

941
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: in winter. It gets so bad they actually have to

942
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 1: close that road. No, you can't have anybody driving on

943
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: it because you're flipping around. And still the butterfire burns

944
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 1: into the night. There seemed to be no end in

945
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: sight for these poor slippery firefighters. Fire Chief Stephen Davis

946
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: was there for the butter tidal wave heat tells reporters

947
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: that he had quote butter in places a guy shouldn't

948
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 1: have butter.

949
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 2: But at the end of the night end quote DMI bro.

950
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: Listen, Stephen Davis is going to tell you how it

951
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: is like it is.

952
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 2: Come with me to the butter.

953
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: For me to get your better treatment. Around eleven PM,

954
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: the roof on one of the other still burning buildings implodes,

955
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: so evacuation orders are put into place for all the

956
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 1: residents in the area around CSW. Emergency workers are still

957
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: worried about fire reaching those chemical reserves, especially ammonia, because

958
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: while the crews were able to shut down the system

959
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: that circulates ammonia through the refrigeration like conductor, have you.

960
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 2: See me nodding?

961
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, yes, I'm just reading this page. There's

962
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: still a seven seven hundred and fifty pound capacity ammonia

963
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: tank that's on site that they can't move. So the

964
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 1: fire can't get to that thing because it's huge and

965
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: it's basically a bomb waiting to go off. So the

966
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 1: local police have to drive around with bullhorns telling people

967
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:59,399
Speaker 1: to leave their homes while cities workers scramble to put

968
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: together emergency shelter. It's like, you got to get out

969
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 1: of here.

970
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, well where do we go?

971
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: And because it's Madison, Wisconsin, they pull it off.

972
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 2: They do it.

973
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: Three thousand residents wow, including a couple hundred from a

974
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: nearby nursing home, are directed to shelter at a local

975
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: high school, with the last evacuees leaving their homes around

976
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: two am Saturday morning. Oh fuck that shit, it's just going.

977
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

978
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: When these people are interviewed by reporters, they have a

979
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: delightful and deeply Wisconsinian attitude about the whole event. Okay,

980
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: I'm really going to try to focus on this one.

981
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: One local describes the scene there as quote real calm, goodnes,

982
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 1: that's good, thank you. We just sat in the common

983
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: areas in the high school and visited. We weren't scared

984
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: we weren't scared. It was a new experience. I'm kind

985
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: of doing Maria Bamford doing her mom.

986
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's good.

987
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,800
Speaker 1: That's as close as I can get. So they're having

988
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: a nice time. All the while, the fucking butterfire is

989
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: still burning. So while they're cool and chill, they are

990
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 1: facing the possibility of never seeing their homes again, because

991
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:15,879
Speaker 1: if the ammonia tank goes, we all go. Fortunately, by

992
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: three point thirty that morning, fire crews have fought and

993
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: finally won the battle against the butterfire, and they do

994
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: keep the blaze away from the amona tanks. The residents

995
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: are told they can go home, but instead they stay

996
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 1: and they make jams and jellies for the high schoolers.

997
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: That's not true, but wouldn't that be fun if like,

998
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: why don't we go to the high school more? Okay,

999
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 1: So now it's dawn on Saturday. You know it's breaking

1000
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 1: dawn Saturday, May fourth. Firefighters are still hard at work.

1001
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: Everything is being done in a life size vat of

1002
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: melted buttery shit, so fire engines and other emergency vehicles

1003
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 1: are getting stuck in the sludge so that it's getting

1004
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: hard to get the fuel trucks into ref fuel or

1005
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: move equipment around at all. I think we have more

1006
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: pictures right of just the like the buttery mess.

1007
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 2: Ew it's like a fucking raging river of butter up

1008
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 2: to his thighs.

1009
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 1: I mean it is a fireman. It looks like he's

1010
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: down in floodwaters.

1011
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, can I say that? I bet their skin was

1012
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:21,959
Speaker 2: so soft for like.

1013
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,399
Speaker 1: Weeks afterwards, and they're kind of.

1014
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: Delicious, like looking in your hand. Do you want to

1015
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 2: go to the movies? I don't know why, but do

1016
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 2: you want to.

1017
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 1: Go to the movies?

1018
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 2: That's fucking crazy, so wild.

1019
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: So again they have to get creative with solving this

1020
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:40,399
Speaker 1: problem because everything is so crazy slippery, so they get mechanics.

1021
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,240
Speaker 1: They send in mechanics on foot holding five gallon buckets

1022
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 1: of diesel to refuel the trucks. They also have to

1023
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 1: slash through thick pools of grease while they do that,

1024
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: so they have to make sure they don't fall down

1025
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 1: and add like gasoline to this issue. But the tides

1026
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: are turning and bite. Six pm Saturday evening, the situation

1027
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: is downgraded to basically just a fire watch, meaning that

1028
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: it's still unsafe in general, but it's nowhere near obviously

1029
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: the four alarm fire from the day before, and that's

1030
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 1: a huge victory. But now there are crises beyond the

1031
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: fire because for hours, biologists and city engineers have been

1032
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 1: at the scene, tasked of keeping all that greasy runoff

1033
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 1: from flowing into the nearby stark Weather Creek, because if

1034
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: that goes there, you're just killing everything in that creek. No,

1035
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: these officials haven't had a lot of time to think

1036
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,320
Speaker 1: through a game plan. They don't have a butter fire

1037
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 1: game plan. And that's why I am running for comptroller

1038
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 1: of Madison, Wisconsin.

1039
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 2: Oh god, there's a fucking there's a big binder for everything.

1040
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

1041
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,359
Speaker 1: And if all the buttermilks we go down there with

1042
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 1: some nice Parker house rolls, it's not a good it's

1043
00:53:55,760 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 1: not a good accent Parker house rolls, but they rise

1044
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: to the occasion. Front end loaders, which are basically those

1045
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: the kind of trucks little kids like the best, but

1046
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: the big scoopers on the front is the way I'll

1047
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: describe them to you, and I get it. They're brought

1048
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: in and they basically they bring in sand, so like

1049
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 1: hutter box exactly exactly. They're just absorbing up as much

1050
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 1: butter as they can. Emergency workers also start digging deep

1051
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: trenches hundreds of feet long in some cases to basically

1052
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 1: trap rank dairy runoff as it's heading downhill to make

1053
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,320
Speaker 1: basically directed away.

1054
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 2: From the creek.

1055
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 1: These trenches are sometimes referred to and reporting as quote

1056
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: lagoons of melted butter type stuff. And apparently they smell

1057
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 1: god awful.

1058
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 2: Really, because it's like rotting at that point. Yeah, I'm hot.

1059
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: And you're just mixing gross you know, it's like cool

1060
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 1: ranch dorito mix with margarine.

1061
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 2: No, that would be good.

1062
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 1: And the sprinkles on the tests right, Okay. So by

1063
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: the next day, Sunday, May fifth, fire Chief Raunch Smeltzer

1064
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 1: gives an update to reporters, telling them, quote, this fire

1065
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 1: will probably still be burning Wednesday. Yet it's a little

1066
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,839
Speaker 1: yet at the end yet end quote. But things are

1067
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,919
Speaker 1: moving in the right direction. That same day, Cottage Grove Road,

1068
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: which has now been nicknamed Cottage Cheese Road come on

1069
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: by the locals, partially reopens to the public and a

1070
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 1: line of teenagers in their cars are waiting to spin donuts.

1071
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 2: How bomber is everyone that it's happening on a weekend

1072
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 2: and not like I can't go to work today.

1073
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:45,359
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry I can't be at that meeting. Yeah,

1074
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 1: I'd love to meet you. So the Great Wisconsin Butterfire

1075
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: is officially extinguished. On Saturday, May eleventh, your birthday for

1076
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,760
Speaker 1: my birthday, that is actually my twenty first birthday.

1077
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 2: Wow, what was care and Kill Cara doing that day?

1078
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. I know exactly what I was doing.

1079
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: I it was in Sacramento, and I want all my friends.

1080
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 1: I wanted to go to a bar. I didn't think

1081
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:11,720
Speaker 1: anyone else.

1082
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 2: Would go to.

1083
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 1: So there's a bar used to drive by on fulsome

1084
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: Avenue all the time, and I can't remember the name.

1085
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 1: I'll have to look it up, but it was basically

1086
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 1: a biker bar, and I made everyone meet me there.

1087
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 1: I like, we all met there, and from when we

1088
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 1: got there, which is, you know, seven o'clock or whatever,

1089
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: we were just like hanging out and laughing. And finally

1090
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: this guy comes over in a full on like Hell's Angels,

1091
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: like he's an extra in a Hell's Angels movie, and

1092
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: he goes.

1093
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 2: Why do you guys come here?

1094
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 1: We're just like, I don't know, we were just trying

1095
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: to be like bitch you and people end up like

1096
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:45,839
Speaker 1: playing pool and having fun.

1097
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 2: They were very nice to us.

1098
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: I think they were retired. Okay, so to hell.

1099
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 2: The angels retire?

1100
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: Can they are they allowed to? They retire from violence,

1101
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: right and mayhem and they help children and Santa Claus.

1102
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 2: Okay.

1103
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: This is eight days after the fire first breaks out.

1104
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,760
Speaker 1: It takes eight days for this thing to be over.

1105
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: In the end, the fire crews are able to save

1106
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 1: three of csw's five warehouses. No lives are lost, thank God,

1107
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: which is of course a huge accomplishment both of those things.

1108
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 1: The tearful owner of the complex, a man named Ken Williams,

1109
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: is genuinely devastated at this huge loss to his family business.

1110
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: And they do find out fire investigators go in and

1111
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: it is the spark from this from that, just a

1112
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: random yeah, like no one's fault, thank god, Ken Williams

1113
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: tells reporters quote, thank God for the chief and his

1114
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: people for their hard work. At times, it was like

1115
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: the battle of.

1116
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 2: The bulge out there.

1117
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: With butter, the butter of the bulge, the butter, bottle

1118
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 1: of the butter, the pre bulge, the butter. Now we're

1119
00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 1: onto the cleanup, which is a lingering and expensive crisis

1120
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 1: in and of itself. For starters, again, We're at the smell.

1121
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: A Facebook group made up of Madison residents commiserate about

1122
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 1: the pervasive stench. In a post made last year, still oh,

1123
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 1: still talking about it. One user remembers how they quote

1124
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 1: had to keep the car windows up in the ac

1125
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 1: off when I drove past THESW for two to three summers.

1126
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 2: Wow.

1127
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 1: Uh huh, that's nasty.

1128
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 2: End quote.

1129
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 1: Another will add quote, I can still smell the rancid

1130
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 1: dairy because it's just such a different smell than you've

1131
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 1: ever probably smelled before.

1132
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and not one that you want to like, continue

1133
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 2: to smell.

1134
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: No, but guess who did continue to smell it? The firemen,

1135
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: because that butter sludge was all over their trucks, their

1136
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: fire equipment, their hoses, and their uniforms that now have

1137
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 1: to be not only washed, but sanitized or maybe just

1138
00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 1: thrown away. Meanwhile, big trucks sweep onto the cs W

1139
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: property to pick up in holloway debris. It's taken to

1140
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: the local dump, which has to extend its hours of

1141
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 1: operation to accommodate all of this sludge. Yes, but a

1142
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: bigger problem and a more difficult problem are those lagoons

1143
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 1: of fatty runoff.

1144
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 2: We're just the worst phrase of all, lagoons of.

1145
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: Fatty run tons of fatty runoff. Fire Department spokesman Tom

1146
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: ol Shansky describes this cleanup as quote not as volatile

1147
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: or explosive, but it's the toughest stuff to clean up

1148
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 1: next to radiation.

1149
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 2: End quote. Cross sucks.

1150
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: The same weekend the fire is finally extinguished, tom ol

1151
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: Shansky is interviewed in an NPR broadcast and he describes

1152
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 1: these challenges, which results in a bunch of unsolicited advice

1153
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 1: from listeners. The AP reports that quote suggestions to Olshansky's

1154
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 1: department include an Arizona callers recommendation that the University of

1155
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: Wisconsin come up with a device that would freeze the

1156
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: goo so it could simply be cut away. That's a

1157
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: recommendation where you go, I'm going to make up a

1158
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: dream scenario, and now you enact my dream scenario. If

1159
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 1: I knew things about Marvel characters, I could reference one

1160
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 1: that could do that with his eyes.

1161
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 2: But I can't.

1162
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: Ice ice Eye, good Old, Maureen, ice Eye, good old.

1163
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 1: Let it be a girl for one.

1164
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1165
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 1: New York City man's is that his character New York

1166
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 1: City man. He's just got a white tank top on

1167
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 1: and he's chewing gum, big accent. This man claimed to

1168
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 1: work with Greece in his job. He says, kitty litter

1169
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 1: would stop up the masses. In the end, Madison consults

1170
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 1: with experts and uses what's described as a quote rendering

1171
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 1: process aimed at dissolving the fatty debris so that everything

1172
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: can be carefully pumped and disposed of through the city's

1173
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 1: sewer system. Officials are extremely careful with this process because

1174
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 1: lard can solidify in the sewer system and cause costly

1175
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 1: and destructive.

1176
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 2: Blockages shit like in your arteries.

1177
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 1: Have you heard of fat bergs? Now, this happened in

1178
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 1: New York City in their own sewer system because there

1179
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 1: was so much lard and grease and stuff that they

1180
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: had these things called fat bergs that were like icebergs. Yeah,

1181
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 1: but they were basically it was just like big clumps

1182
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 1: of stuff like that. They that were blocking the drains

1183
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 1: of the sewer and that all goes okay, and stark

1184
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: Weather Creek and the other bodies of water that it

1185
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: feeds are protected great. So as for the cost of

1186
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 1: this event. Many sources put the total it somewhere around

1187
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: one hundred million dollars, which in today's money from.

1188
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 2: Nineteen ninety one one hundred million dollars one hundred million

1189
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 2: dollars in today's money is seven hundred million, two hundred

1190
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 2: and forty million.

1191
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, there's basically a little over double.

1192
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 2: Okay.

1193
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 1: So among those contributing to the cleanup costs are of

1194
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 1: course csw's owner Ken Williams. He has to pay like

1195
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 1: half a million dollars. The US Department of Agriculture gives

1196
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand dollars, and the good folks over at

1197
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 1: Oscar Meyer Wieners, out of the goodness of their hearts,

1198
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: donate another fifty thousand dollars.

1199
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 2: That's nice, nice people, But.

1200
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: Also remember there's Wieners in that there. Sludge takes decades,

1201
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 1: basically until twenty eleven for CSW to finally finish rebuilding

1202
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 1: that complex.

1203
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 2: That year.

1204
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 1: Sorry I made it sound like to clean it up.

1205
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that year.

1206
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,439
Speaker 1: Ken Williams tells the Wisconsin State Journal that quote, there

1207
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 1: were a lot of doubts. Really in a way, I

1208
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 1: thought I'd never see it, but we persevered.

1209
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 2: End quote.

1210
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 1: Or Ken, I know Ken Williams passed away in twenty

1211
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 1: twenty one, but his younger family members are now involved

1212
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: in the business and they are all very deeply indebted

1213
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: to the firefighters who worked for days, for eight days

1214
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 1: to basically save their family business. And this is a

1215
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 1: very cute front of the building.

1216
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 2: That's a fire at on the on Cocaine Bear.

1217
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: On Cocaine Bear. They did a little the cleanup in

1218
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:23,439
Speaker 1: the background and the little celebration for the Madison Fire

1219
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 1: Department in the foreground, which is very nice. And that

1220
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 1: crew included raun Schmelzer, who would sum up this bizarre,

1221
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 1: grotesque and extremely hard fought job in playing terms telling

1222
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 1: a reporter quote, in my twenty five years as a firefighter,

1223
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: I have never seen anything like it. I think it's

1224
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: safe to say I won't see anything like it again

1225
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 1: in my career. And that's the story of the nineteen

1226
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: ninety one Wisconsin butterfire.

1227
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 2: Wow, I've never heard of it.

1228
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:53,520
Speaker 1: Right, great job me either, Thank you?

1229
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, great birthday story right, Ah, you did it. This

1230
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 2: is how we celebrate. What are you gonna do for

1231
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 2: your birthday plans?

1232
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to go out of town to

1233
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 1: a relaxing a place that's very relaxing.

1234
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 2: That's a good idea. My thing is, yeah, baby, I'm

1235
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 2: going to the strip. Oh god, yeah, the most relaxing

1236
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 2: place on the planet.

1237
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 1: Everyone knows, everyone knows well, you know, it's really great.

1238
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: And this is again We'll just keep on talking about

1239
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 1: our producer Mollie Smith to suggest, why don't you take

1240
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 1: Monday off? Yeah, because it's your birthday. And I'm like, oh, yeah,

1241
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 1: I'm taking your birthday off too. Hey, great, it's gonna

1242
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: work out. I mean, well, great job, Thank you kindly.

1243
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 2: We did it again. We have done it.

1244
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 1: Proud of us, me too. It's like it's like we

1245
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 1: do yoga with swords. We bring back the real Nancy Drew.

1246
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 2: We brown butter.

1247
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 1: We brown butter, We don't burn butter.

1248
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 2: We're basically Shakespearean actresses, actors who now know how to

1249
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 2: put out a basic grease fire. That's right.

1250
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 1: If we're not giving you everything you need on this show, yeah,

1251
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 1: I don't understand what you need, and I don't know

1252
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 1: what else you need? Did I in all my fifty

1253
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 1: sixty years. I don't understand what the fuck you're looking for.

1254
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 1: Stay sexy and.

1255
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 2: Don't get murdered. Bye Bye, Elvis. Do you want a Cookie?

1256
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right production.

1257
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:27,120
Speaker 2: Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer

1258
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 2: is Tessa Hughes.

1259
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:29,920
Speaker 1: Our editor is Aristotle l Ascevedo.

1260
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 2: This episode was mixed by Leona Squalacci.

1261
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: Our researchers are Mary McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

1262
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 2: Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.

1263
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 1: And follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.

1264
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 2: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1265
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 2: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

1266
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 1: And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.

1267
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 2: And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and

1268
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 2: the remind Me buttons. That's the best way you can

1269
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 2: support our show. Goodbye,