WEBVTT - Why our Brains Don't Fear Climate Change Enough 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:23.716 Pushkin, he's giving us the thumbsut. Okay, So, as usual, 0:00:23.756 --> 0:00:26.516 we just have you start by introducing yourself. 0:00:28.076 --> 0:00:29.236 Hi, I'm Dan Gilbert. 0:00:29.916 --> 0:00:30.636 For the opening of. 0:00:30.556 --> 0:00:33.036 This new season, I'm really rolling out the big guns. 0:00:33.516 --> 0:00:36.716 Dan Gilbert is a huge figure in happiness science. He's 0:00:36.716 --> 0:00:39.956 one of the field's most respected psychologists and an absolute 0:00:39.956 --> 0:00:42.636 whiz at explaining some of the most puzzling aspects of 0:00:42.676 --> 0:00:44.996 human nature. And that is going to be a big 0:00:44.996 --> 0:00:47.716 help today because the question I have for him is 0:00:47.756 --> 0:00:51.116 as confounding as it is serious. This episode is all 0:00:51.116 --> 0:00:53.796 about the puzzle of why we're not doing more for 0:00:53.956 --> 0:00:56.716 things that are really hurting us potentially badly. 0:00:56.956 --> 0:00:57.716 That sounds great. 0:00:58.676 --> 0:01:01.236 Every January, the Happiness Lab puts out a New Year, 0:01:01.356 --> 0:01:04.636 New You type season. We explore the personal challenges that 0:01:04.756 --> 0:01:06.996 so many of us face and the ways we can 0:01:07.076 --> 0:01:09.196 understand them better to make a fresh start. 0:01:09.196 --> 0:01:09.716 The year ahead. 0:01:11.516 --> 0:01:14.956 But this year we're doing something slightly different. This season 0:01:15.036 --> 0:01:17.036 is going to focus on a topic that makes a 0:01:17.036 --> 0:01:21.116 lot of us feel scared, angry, and vulnerable. That topic 0:01:21.436 --> 0:01:26.556 is climate change. The federal government says this fire season 0:01:26.596 --> 0:01:27.996 is unpressed serious. 0:01:27.636 --> 0:01:29.676 Fire seasons in the past, but this one just makes 0:01:29.676 --> 0:01:30.876 seeds our a sort of experience. 0:01:30.916 --> 0:01:32.676 Twenty twenty three at shattered records. 0:01:32.756 --> 0:01:36.396 Dangerous fast moving towards are leaving some eight million people 0:01:36.436 --> 0:01:37.756 in the region under flood. 0:01:37.756 --> 0:01:40.676 A looks in the Midwest is abnormally dry, so. 0:01:40.676 --> 0:01:42.236 Your prayer and hope for the best. 0:01:42.156 --> 0:01:44.996 The future could be even bleaker. 0:01:45.196 --> 0:01:47.316 Is a point relieve off the charts. 0:01:47.916 --> 0:01:50.316 Twenty twenty three was pretty much the hottest year in 0:01:50.356 --> 0:01:53.996 recorded history, but it wasn't just heat waves. Over the 0:01:54.036 --> 0:01:57.156 last twelve months, we saw a host of disasters related 0:01:57.156 --> 0:02:02.076 to global heating, raging forest fires, devastating floods, and retreated ice. 0:02:02.876 --> 0:02:06.876 These depressing facts usually make us feel pretty terrible. We 0:02:06.916 --> 0:02:09.556 feel anxious for our futures and for those of our children. 0:02:10.076 --> 0:02:12.716 We get angry with ourselves and others for letting things 0:02:12.716 --> 0:02:16.076 get this bad, and we feel overwhelmed and pretty helpless 0:02:16.156 --> 0:02:18.876 in the face of such a big challenge. And these 0:02:18.916 --> 0:02:21.556 negative emotions compel many of us to turn away from 0:02:21.556 --> 0:02:24.796 the problem. We spend most of our days acting like 0:02:24.836 --> 0:02:27.996 the whole global heating thing just a isn't happening. We 0:02:28.076 --> 0:02:30.636 go into denial mode and try to just carry on 0:02:30.676 --> 0:02:34.036 with our lives. But the science shows that negative emotions 0:02:34.036 --> 0:02:36.396 often hurt us more when we try to pretend that 0:02:36.396 --> 0:02:39.716 they're not there. And all this collective avoidance isn't that 0:02:39.756 --> 0:02:42.636 great for the climate crisis either. So over the next 0:02:42.636 --> 0:02:44.636 few shows, we're going to look at ways we can 0:02:44.636 --> 0:02:48.796 confront the climate challenge more calmly and confidently. We'll see 0:02:48.796 --> 0:02:50.956 that dealing with the crisis head on and doing our 0:02:50.996 --> 0:02:53.516 bit to help can make us feel happier than we expect. 0:02:54.196 --> 0:02:57.316 We'll also learn ways to navigate our negative emotions and 0:02:57.396 --> 0:03:00.356 to experience a bit of optimism even in the face 0:03:00.436 --> 0:03:04.036 of such a scary situation. But in this first episode, 0:03:04.116 --> 0:03:07.436 I wanted Dan to help me answer a vexing psychological question. 0:03:08.316 --> 0:03:11.356 We've been talking about the catastrophic dangers of global warming 0:03:11.436 --> 0:03:14.716 for several decades, but people are still debating whether it's 0:03:14.756 --> 0:03:17.556 a real crisis and how urgently we need to act 0:03:17.636 --> 0:03:20.196 to fix it, Which is kind of weird because it 0:03:20.196 --> 0:03:22.676 seems like humans should be pretty good at dealing with 0:03:22.716 --> 0:03:26.396 life threatening situations. I mean, we've had millions of years 0:03:26.436 --> 0:03:30.676 of evolution. Our brains should be amazing threat detectors. They 0:03:30.676 --> 0:03:32.956 should be really good at noting when we're in danger 0:03:33.116 --> 0:03:35.996 and taking action. Why then, do so many of us 0:03:36.036 --> 0:03:38.356 seem to be ignoring a threat big enough to wipe 0:03:38.396 --> 0:03:42.236 out our entire planet. The answer comes from the fact 0:03:42.236 --> 0:03:44.636 that our brains are built to deal with only certain 0:03:44.716 --> 0:03:47.876 kinds of threats. If a saber tooth tiger jumps out 0:03:47.876 --> 0:03:50.356 at you from the bush, you'll address that threat as 0:03:50.396 --> 0:03:53.436 best you can right away. But if your doctor tells 0:03:53.476 --> 0:03:55.476 you that you better change your diet or flash your 0:03:55.516 --> 0:03:58.356 teeth to reduce the risk of health problems developing decades 0:03:58.356 --> 0:04:01.476 from now, you might dither. It's why we're bad at 0:04:01.516 --> 0:04:04.236 putting money into our four oh one ks, and why 0:04:04.276 --> 0:04:06.676 we sometimes don't put in the work to make happiness 0:04:06.676 --> 0:04:09.916 practices a part of our daily lives. We're great at 0:04:09.956 --> 0:04:12.996 addressing the urgent problems, but we're not so hot when 0:04:12.996 --> 0:04:16.196 it comes to tackling other important ones. And when those 0:04:16.236 --> 0:04:19.436 important things do become urgent and messy, we wind up 0:04:19.476 --> 0:04:23.956 kicking ourselves for not acting sooner. Harvard professor Dan Gilbert 0:04:23.956 --> 0:04:27.036 has been thinking deeply about this mind bias for decades. 0:04:27.836 --> 0:04:30.116 He wondered why governments seemed to be so bad at 0:04:30.156 --> 0:04:33.476 coordinating a response to climate change, even though they're really 0:04:33.516 --> 0:04:36.956 good at urgent action. Following events like terrorist attacks. 0:04:37.436 --> 0:04:41.276 You know, everybody in America had a reaction to nine 0:04:41.316 --> 0:04:44.156 to eleven, and all of us had the reaction this 0:04:44.276 --> 0:04:46.916 is terrible, and thousands of people have died. But because 0:04:46.956 --> 0:04:50.236 I'm a psychologist, I also had another reaction, which is, 0:04:50.996 --> 0:04:56.636 why are we not equally concerned about all things that 0:04:56.676 --> 0:05:01.036 have killed even more people in our country? Ranging from 0:05:01.356 --> 0:05:05.276 climate change to the flu. Many more people have died, 0:05:05.396 --> 0:05:08.756 So why are we so concerned about one thing and 0:05:08.796 --> 0:05:13.396 will to sacrifice everything from resources to personal liberty to 0:05:13.476 --> 0:05:16.956 fight it, But these other threats that are even greater 0:05:17.076 --> 0:05:20.716 in magnitude, arguably we're willing to do nothing about. That 0:05:20.836 --> 0:05:24.396 seemed to me a curious question that was ripe for 0:05:24.436 --> 0:05:26.076 a psychological answer. 0:05:26.036 --> 0:05:28.756 And you really applied that question directly to climate change too. 0:05:28.956 --> 0:05:31.516 You'd think that if we knew the real threat, which 0:05:31.556 --> 0:05:33.876 a lot of people say that they do, we'd be 0:05:33.916 --> 0:05:36.156 freaked out and we'd be acting. But we're kind of not. 0:05:36.556 --> 0:05:39.436 And so talk to me a little bit why evolutionarily 0:05:39.476 --> 0:05:40.436 this might be the case. 0:05:40.996 --> 0:05:43.996 Well, you know, several hundred years ago, two very smart 0:05:43.996 --> 0:05:47.236 guys named Pascal and Vermont told us how we ought 0:05:47.276 --> 0:05:50.516 to think about threats. We ought to think about their likelihood, 0:05:50.916 --> 0:05:53.316 and we ought to think about their magnitude. And those 0:05:53.396 --> 0:05:57.196 two things tell us whether a threat really warrants our attention, 0:05:57.556 --> 0:05:59.556 if it's really likely to happen and it's going to 0:05:59.556 --> 0:06:02.236 be a very very bad outcome if it does take action. 0:06:02.556 --> 0:06:05.076 If not, then don't. That's all logical, but it's not 0:06:05.196 --> 0:06:09.836 very psychological because human beings were not evolved to compute 0:06:09.876 --> 0:06:13.836 expected utility, if you will. Rather were evolved to respond 0:06:13.876 --> 0:06:17.516 to a small set of threats that were really big 0:06:17.556 --> 0:06:21.756 problems for our ancestors living in the African savannah. And unfortunately, 0:06:22.196 --> 0:06:26.396 climate change has none of the features that trigger this 0:06:26.636 --> 0:06:28.956 threat response system in the human brain. 0:06:29.156 --> 0:06:31.396 And so let's talk about some of those four features. 0:06:31.436 --> 0:06:33.476 The first one that you've talked about is that threats 0:06:33.476 --> 0:06:37.556 have to be kind of agentive, they have to involve individuals. 0:06:37.836 --> 0:06:40.076 Why do we really care about threats that come from people? 0:06:40.276 --> 0:06:42.636 Well, we care about everything that comes from people, and 0:06:42.676 --> 0:06:46.756 for good reason. People are the most significant source of 0:06:46.796 --> 0:06:49.716 rewards and punishments for an animal like us. We're the 0:06:49.716 --> 0:06:54.196 most social animal on the planet Earth. So it's no 0:06:54.316 --> 0:06:56.796 wonder and it's for good reason that we care a 0:06:56.836 --> 0:06:59.436 lot about what other people do, what other people think 0:06:59.476 --> 0:07:03.076 and what other people say. With that said, climate change 0:07:03.156 --> 0:07:06.156 is not an attack by a mean group of people 0:07:06.196 --> 0:07:09.516 who are running at us with sticks, and that's what 0:07:09.556 --> 0:07:12.916 we're evolved to respond to. I mean, look what happened 0:07:13.196 --> 0:07:15.956 when the twin Towers came down and we went and 0:07:15.996 --> 0:07:18.916 invaded a country because they had murdered three thousand people. 0:07:18.916 --> 0:07:21.276 If those three thousand people had died from the flu, 0:07:21.836 --> 0:07:23.716 and by the way, it's ten times that who die 0:07:23.716 --> 0:07:26.676 from the flu every year, we just kind of hum 0:07:26.756 --> 0:07:29.156 along and don't worry too much about it. So that's 0:07:29.276 --> 0:07:31.636 the tragedy of climate change is that it doesn't have 0:07:31.676 --> 0:07:34.036 a face. It seems like a non agentic threat. 0:07:34.116 --> 0:07:35.676 It also seems to not have an intent. 0:07:35.916 --> 0:07:37.876 You made this quip in one of your articles that 0:07:37.916 --> 0:07:41.036 if climate change was trying to kill us, then we'd 0:07:41.076 --> 0:07:43.316 take it very seriously. You know, talk about the power 0:07:43.356 --> 0:07:45.636 of intent and why that matters for our psychology. 0:07:45.756 --> 0:07:48.756 Well, we all know that if somebody pushes you in 0:07:48.756 --> 0:07:51.276 the street and goes, oh, excuse me, I tripped, you're 0:07:51.316 --> 0:07:54.116 not alarmed at all. But if they say, hey take that, 0:07:54.516 --> 0:07:57.276 suddenly you rise up with full force, you call the police, 0:07:57.316 --> 0:08:00.036 you hit them back you start yelling. So whether people 0:08:00.076 --> 0:08:03.156 intend to harm us or not is almost more important 0:08:03.196 --> 0:08:06.076 than the harm they inflict. We'll forgive almost anything that's 0:08:06.116 --> 0:08:09.636 an accident, and we will prosecute almost anything that isn't. 0:08:09.876 --> 0:08:14.436 Climate change isn't. Nobody's actually trying to make the climate warmer, 0:08:14.596 --> 0:08:17.956 nobody's trying to melt the polarized caps. People are doing 0:08:17.956 --> 0:08:20.196 it as a result of their activity, but it's pretty 0:08:20.196 --> 0:08:23.236 incidental to the activities that they're performing, you know, in 0:08:23.276 --> 0:08:26.236 a way. That's too bad. We can't get too excited 0:08:26.276 --> 0:08:30.836 about it because there's nobody who's meaning ill behind it. 0:08:31.036 --> 0:08:33.236 And I love when our psychology gets really tripped up 0:08:33.236 --> 0:08:36.196 by this. I remember one study where you had neuroscientists 0:08:36.196 --> 0:08:38.316 putting people in a scanner and these people were getting 0:08:38.316 --> 0:08:40.836 the subjects were getting shocked, and the shocks varied whether 0:08:40.876 --> 0:08:43.796 they were just kind of random accidental shocks that were happening, 0:08:44.076 --> 0:08:46.676 or there was somebody sitting behind the thing who intended 0:08:46.716 --> 0:08:48.916 to shock you. And if you look at pain regions 0:08:48.916 --> 0:08:51.716 in the rain, we actually feel more pain when we're 0:08:51.756 --> 0:08:54.516 getting shocks that are intended when somebody's trying to give 0:08:54.516 --> 0:08:56.676 them to us. And I think that's so powerful when 0:08:56.676 --> 0:08:58.996 we think about climate change, because the fact that nobody's 0:08:59.036 --> 0:09:01.196 trying to do it makes it just kind of like 0:09:01.236 --> 0:09:03.956 water off a duct's back when we think about it psychologically. 0:09:04.116 --> 0:09:06.596 Yeah, it's a little less shocking, isn't. 0:09:06.396 --> 0:09:09.076 It Exactly The next kind of thing you've talked about 0:09:09.196 --> 0:09:11.476 the fact that our brains tend to respond a lot 0:09:11.516 --> 0:09:14.196 to threats that are immoral. And this one's kind of 0:09:14.196 --> 0:09:16.156 interesting because you know, in some ways you could think that, 0:09:16.196 --> 0:09:18.756 you know, the destruction of a planet is actually causing harm, 0:09:19.116 --> 0:09:21.436 but moral harms tend to work a little bit differently. 0:09:21.516 --> 0:09:23.356 Talk a little bit about how moral harms work. 0:09:23.676 --> 0:09:25.876 You know, this is very intertwined with the first thing 0:09:25.916 --> 0:09:29.836 we talked about with intentionality and agents, because moral harms 0:09:29.876 --> 0:09:33.876 are harms from agents, but they are by moral harms. 0:09:33.916 --> 0:09:36.036 I guess I'm talking about things that are more like 0:09:36.196 --> 0:09:40.276 insults than injuries. And we are evolved to care a 0:09:40.316 --> 0:09:44.516 lot about insults because insults to our honor, insults to 0:09:44.636 --> 0:09:49.236 our face are in some sense reducing our or threats 0:09:49.236 --> 0:09:52.676 to reduce our place in a social hierarchy, and so 0:09:52.796 --> 0:09:56.476 we're very, very concerned with our reputations. What would people 0:09:56.556 --> 0:09:59.596 think of us. You know, I could probably steal your 0:09:59.636 --> 0:10:02.756 pencil or you know, bump into your car and you 0:10:02.796 --> 0:10:05.076 wouldn't get too upset about it. But if I called 0:10:05.116 --> 0:10:08.916 your mother a dirty name, you would rise up viciously 0:10:09.196 --> 0:10:12.276 attack me. Why there's really no harm done, is there? 0:10:12.316 --> 0:10:14.756 Well the answer is yes, it's a moral harm. It 0:10:14.876 --> 0:10:17.676 violates your sense of what's fair and just and right. 0:10:18.196 --> 0:10:21.876 So we respond to moral harms with great power. And 0:10:22.036 --> 0:10:24.156 climate change isn't a moral harm, is it. I mean, 0:10:24.196 --> 0:10:25.956 it's going to ruin our air, in our water, and 0:10:25.996 --> 0:10:27.956 it's going to make the world hot. But it's not 0:10:28.076 --> 0:10:30.836 insulting us, it's not attacking our religion. 0:10:31.036 --> 0:10:33.036 I mean, but it's incredible right that we're not getting 0:10:33.076 --> 0:10:35.076 freaked out about burning so much coal, but we are 0:10:35.116 --> 0:10:37.716 getting freaked out about, say, burning a single flag. When 0:10:37.716 --> 0:10:39.836 somebody does that, now all of a sudden, our moral 0:10:39.836 --> 0:10:41.716 emotions are kind of going going nut. 0:10:41.756 --> 0:10:44.996 So, yeah, they are. And it's easy to understand why 0:10:45.036 --> 0:10:48.116 we care so much about these things. And the question 0:10:48.236 --> 0:10:52.716 is whether we can subjugate this natural response. And you know, 0:10:52.756 --> 0:10:55.716 get on board with those two French guys, Pascal and Vermont, 0:10:55.716 --> 0:10:58.236 and say, you know what flag burning it isn't very nice. 0:10:58.276 --> 0:11:00.756 We don't much like it, but maybe we could worry 0:11:00.756 --> 0:11:03.636 about that tomorrow after we've saved the planet. 0:11:03.796 --> 0:11:05.956 Your moral point is really important because it suggests that 0:11:05.996 --> 0:11:08.596 climate change can make us scared, but it doesn't make 0:11:08.676 --> 0:11:11.076 us out raged. And it seems like outrage is a 0:11:11.076 --> 0:11:13.036 sort of special kind of emotion when it comes to 0:11:13.076 --> 0:11:14.236 causing us to take action. 0:11:14.476 --> 0:11:16.356 It really is, isn't it. I mean, you don't have 0:11:16.396 --> 0:11:19.356 to spend too much time online to realize that it 0:11:19.436 --> 0:11:24.476 is the fundamental driver of most people's online behavior on 0:11:24.556 --> 0:11:28.756 platforms like x formerly known as Twitter and others. It's 0:11:28.796 --> 0:11:34.156 about moral outrage. Now, we occasionally feel moral outrage about 0:11:34.396 --> 0:11:39.116 environmental disasters. If Exon, you know, runs their tanker into 0:11:39.156 --> 0:11:43.116 an heisberg and you know, thousands of gallons spill and 0:11:43.236 --> 0:11:46.116 penguins are dying, we all rise up and say, how 0:11:46.116 --> 0:11:48.356 can you do this? You have to clean it up, right. 0:11:48.596 --> 0:11:52.356 It's not like the domain of the environment is completely 0:11:52.396 --> 0:11:56.116 insulated from the moral domain. It's just that when we 0:11:56.196 --> 0:11:59.876 hear there are glaciers melting and the seas are rising 0:11:59.916 --> 0:12:03.436 and it's just getting warmer, we can't point to any 0:12:03.596 --> 0:12:06.796 particular agent who is doing this in order to harm 0:12:06.876 --> 0:12:09.756 us or insult us, and so just get our blood 0:12:09.756 --> 0:12:12.436 pressure up in the same way that calling your mother 0:12:12.476 --> 0:12:13.436 a bad name does. 0:12:13.676 --> 0:12:15.596 And your Englon example is great because I think it 0:12:15.636 --> 0:12:17.836 gets to the third feature that I think that gets 0:12:17.876 --> 0:12:21.916 our minds going, which is things that happen instantaneously. You know, 0:12:21.956 --> 0:12:25.076 the eggs on disaster you described is oil pouring out 0:12:25.516 --> 0:12:29.556 right now. It's happening immediately. And these immediate threats seem 0:12:29.596 --> 0:12:31.636 to be ones that also really kind of get us going. 0:12:31.636 --> 0:12:33.476 You've described the mind as a sort of get out 0:12:33.476 --> 0:12:35.636 of the wave machine. Like talk a little bit about 0:12:35.636 --> 0:12:36.356 what you mean by that. 0:12:36.716 --> 0:12:38.636 We're very good getting out of the way, aren't we. 0:12:38.756 --> 0:12:41.236 If I throw something at you, you will duck before 0:12:41.396 --> 0:12:45.196 you even know it's coming. Your brain responds so quickly 0:12:45.316 --> 0:12:49.396 to threats that appear immediately and instantly in your environment. 0:12:50.356 --> 0:12:53.236 Most environmental threats are not like that. I mean, occasionally 0:12:53.316 --> 0:12:55.596 they are. There's an oil spill one day, the water 0:12:55.756 --> 0:12:58.956 was cleaned. The next day it's dirty. But by and large, 0:12:59.076 --> 0:13:01.716 the temperature on Earth is not going to increase by 0:13:01.756 --> 0:13:05.876 twenty degrees tomorrow. It's going to increase by point oh 0:13:06.076 --> 0:13:10.316 oh one. And then the same amount the next day. 0:13:10.476 --> 0:13:13.356 We're all familiar with the frog that never jumps out 0:13:13.396 --> 0:13:15.796 of the water because the water is being heated from 0:13:15.876 --> 0:13:18.796 room temperature to boiling very slowly. That's not a bad 0:13:18.916 --> 0:13:22.116 parable for the place we are right now with regard 0:13:22.156 --> 0:13:26.276 to the environment. These changes are going to be devastating, 0:13:26.476 --> 0:13:31.836 but not tomorrow, and not instantly. Things will change at 0:13:31.836 --> 0:13:34.756 the speed at which we can adapt to them. And 0:13:34.796 --> 0:13:36.836 we are remarkable adapters. 0:13:36.436 --> 0:13:39.396 And so these instant changes are ones that we notice quickly. 0:13:39.636 --> 0:13:41.356 But it is the case that we have minds that 0:13:41.396 --> 0:13:43.356 can pay a little bit of attention to the future. 0:13:43.716 --> 0:13:45.876 But a lot of your work has shown how bad 0:13:45.916 --> 0:13:47.836 we are at doing that. Like it's this kind of 0:13:47.876 --> 0:13:50.116 cool thing that our species can do, but it's still 0:13:50.156 --> 0:13:52.476 a capacity that's a little bit in beta version. 0:13:52.756 --> 0:13:57.356 This is a remarkably evolutionarily speaking, it's a remarkably new capacity. 0:13:57.516 --> 0:14:02.036 We shouldn't be surprised that its reach is limited. I mean, 0:14:02.036 --> 0:14:04.276 we really should be surprised that we have it at all, 0:14:04.436 --> 0:14:07.116 because as far as we know, no other animal does 0:14:07.196 --> 0:14:10.676 at least nothing like power ability to look into the 0:14:10.676 --> 0:14:14.196 far future and reason about it. But with that said, 0:14:15.516 --> 0:14:19.276 every day we see people failing to use this capacity, 0:14:19.476 --> 0:14:22.836 at least as logic would have us. People don't save 0:14:22.956 --> 0:14:26.836 enough for retirement. People don't floss when they know that 0:14:26.956 --> 0:14:29.836 little act would save them a lot of dental pain 0:14:30.436 --> 0:14:33.276 down the road. People eat badly and say I'll die 0:14:33.316 --> 0:14:37.196 it tomorrow. Why. Well, because it's kind of hard to 0:14:37.236 --> 0:14:40.916 take actions that are difficult today in the service of 0:14:40.956 --> 0:14:44.396 someone you're going to be in the far future. Climate change, 0:14:45.556 --> 0:14:48.316 you know, I could have just been describing it. So 0:14:48.396 --> 0:14:50.716 I should go spend a lot of money changing all 0:14:50.756 --> 0:14:55.116 my light bulbs because maybe someday that will help someone 0:14:55.156 --> 0:14:59.196 who isn't me. That's pretty hard for most people to do. 0:14:59.356 --> 0:15:01.076 Another thing that's hard for people to do is to 0:15:01.076 --> 0:15:03.676 deal with these threats when they're not instantaneous, when they're 0:15:03.716 --> 0:15:06.836 not happening really quickly, as you mentioned, and this seems 0:15:06.836 --> 0:15:08.956 to be kind of related to a different happiness bias. 0:15:09.196 --> 0:15:11.156 We've talked a lot of this podcasts, right that we 0:15:11.236 --> 0:15:13.716 kind of get used to stuff over time because these 0:15:13.796 --> 0:15:16.516 changes are happening so slowly. It's not the kind of 0:15:16.516 --> 0:15:18.956 thing where the temperature changes so quickly and I tend 0:15:19.036 --> 0:15:21.356 to notice it. It tends to kind of go under 0:15:21.356 --> 0:15:23.636 the radar and this is part and parcel of a 0:15:23.716 --> 0:15:26.236 bigger kind of problem for our happiness. Right, this idea 0:15:26.276 --> 0:15:28.796 of adaptation. Tell me what adaptation is and why it's 0:15:28.836 --> 0:15:29.556 so problematic. 0:15:29.876 --> 0:15:32.756 Well, people do get used to things, of course, but 0:15:32.796 --> 0:15:36.076 they get used to them much better than they themselves predict. 0:15:36.236 --> 0:15:41.316 We are world champion habituators and adapters, and that's usually 0:15:41.356 --> 0:15:44.516 really good. That means when bad things happen in our lives, 0:15:44.556 --> 0:15:47.436 you know, we lose the use of a limb, or 0:15:48.236 --> 0:15:52.556 relationship status changes from married to divorce, or any of 0:15:52.596 --> 0:15:56.356 the normal slings and arrows of outrageous fortune that befall people. 0:15:56.396 --> 0:15:59.796 Every day, we get on board with the new program 0:15:59.876 --> 0:16:04.316 and we basically do just fine. But this remarkable ability 0:16:04.356 --> 0:16:07.196 to adapt can also be our enemy, because it makes 0:16:07.476 --> 0:16:12.996 us not react to bad things that happen slowly enough 0:16:13.356 --> 0:16:16.236 for us to get used to them. My grandchildren don't 0:16:16.236 --> 0:16:19.636 think there's anything odd about a river or a stream 0:16:20.156 --> 0:16:23.156 that has a sign that says don't swim. When I 0:16:23.276 --> 0:16:25.956 was a kid, that would have been a science fiction story. 0:16:26.876 --> 0:16:29.756 A stream or a river in which you can't swim. 0:16:29.916 --> 0:16:32.116 What happened to the water, Well, what happened to the 0:16:32.116 --> 0:16:34.596 water in America has it got more polluted a little 0:16:34.636 --> 0:16:37.956 bit every day. I got used to it. Whole generations 0:16:37.996 --> 0:16:41.076 are now being born who've never seen anything else. If 0:16:41.116 --> 0:16:43.836 tomorrow we were all told we could never go outside 0:16:43.836 --> 0:16:47.916 our homes again, what would we do? I mean, we 0:16:48.236 --> 0:16:51.036 would riot, we would elect a new government, we would 0:16:51.116 --> 0:16:54.716 protest in every possible way. But I assure you that 0:16:54.916 --> 0:16:57.796 if the number of days you have to stay indoors 0:16:58.436 --> 0:17:02.956 increases from zero to one next year, to two the 0:17:03.036 --> 0:17:06.836 following year, in three hundred and sixty five years, people 0:17:06.876 --> 0:17:10.396 will not think it strange that nobody else can go outdoors. 0:17:10.556 --> 0:17:12.796 I think we even show this adaptation for things that 0:17:12.956 --> 0:17:15.676 happen even a little bit more quickly. I remember this 0:17:15.796 --> 0:17:18.796 year was the first year that I started noticing, you know, 0:17:18.836 --> 0:17:21.316 the skies were looking hazy, because then the East Coast 0:17:21.316 --> 0:17:23.636 where I lived, there's so many fires happening in Canada. 0:17:23.836 --> 0:17:25.636 I think the first day was really hazy, you know. 0:17:25.636 --> 0:17:27.676 I remember my husband and I going outside and be like, wow, 0:17:27.716 --> 0:17:30.556 it's so hazy. But day three, day four, all of 0:17:30.596 --> 0:17:32.676 a sudden, I'm like, yeah, it's just hazy again. I've 0:17:32.716 --> 0:17:34.996 sort of stopped remarking about it. So even some of 0:17:35.036 --> 0:17:37.756 these changes that feel like they're happening a little bit faster. 0:17:37.956 --> 0:17:39.796 Ones that we don't seem to notice that much. 0:17:39.916 --> 0:17:43.596 We don't seem to notice, and we more importantly, we 0:17:43.716 --> 0:17:46.756 don't object. And one reason we don't object, of course, 0:17:46.796 --> 0:17:48.836 is because it's not just us. If you were the 0:17:48.836 --> 0:17:52.596 only person who couldn't go outside, you'd be forming an 0:17:52.636 --> 0:17:55.396 action group, you'd be writing to your senators. But it's 0:17:55.436 --> 0:17:58.356 everybody else too, and none of them are going out. 0:17:58.436 --> 0:18:01.076 And you know, what we think is normal is what 0:18:01.156 --> 0:18:04.516 everybody is doing. That's the definition of normal for most people. 0:18:05.036 --> 0:18:07.596 So as long as most people can't drink the water, 0:18:07.836 --> 0:18:11.076 can't easily breathe the air, as long as most people 0:18:11.196 --> 0:18:16.796 can't live south of Missouri anymore. The other problem, of course, 0:18:16.876 --> 0:18:20.436 is even if people thought, darn, this is really bad, 0:18:20.836 --> 0:18:23.676 I need to do something, most people don't know what 0:18:23.716 --> 0:18:26.836 they could do. They understand that climate change is far 0:18:26.876 --> 0:18:30.996 too big a threat for anything they do today. To 0:18:31.076 --> 0:18:34.356 make a bit of difference, it requires mass action. 0:18:34.596 --> 0:18:37.116 There's also lots of evidence that our actions, even though 0:18:37.116 --> 0:18:39.756 we often think of them as happening in isolation, they don't, 0:18:40.116 --> 0:18:41.956 you know. So if I put solar panels up, that 0:18:41.956 --> 0:18:44.436 has an interesting effect on your psychology if you live 0:18:44.516 --> 0:18:46.796 next door to me. So talk about how that effect 0:18:46.876 --> 0:18:49.996 might actually allow for collective action out of individual action. 0:18:50.196 --> 0:18:52.436 Well, you're making a great point, which is that your 0:18:52.516 --> 0:18:56.796 action has direct effects on problems. So you put solar 0:18:56.796 --> 0:18:59.716 panels on your house, and you have actually reduced the 0:18:59.756 --> 0:19:03.636 electrical usage in your city by an extremely small amount. 0:19:03.956 --> 0:19:06.996 But you've also created an example. As we mentioned earlier, 0:19:07.516 --> 0:19:12.196 human beings define normal by what they see done around them, 0:19:12.676 --> 0:19:15.236 and once solar panels are going up in the neighborhood, 0:19:15.276 --> 0:19:18.236 it suddenly seems like a thing a reasonable person could do. 0:19:18.476 --> 0:19:22.036 So there are these cascading effects. There are indirect effects 0:19:22.036 --> 0:19:23.276 of doing the right thing. 0:19:25.836 --> 0:19:28.116 One of the things I love about human psychology is 0:19:28.196 --> 0:19:31.476 just how complicated it is. We have so many stubborn 0:19:31.516 --> 0:19:34.236 biases that prevent us from doing stuff that will directly 0:19:34.276 --> 0:19:37.356 benefit us and our planet. But there are also other 0:19:37.436 --> 0:19:40.516 biases that we can harness for good, like Dan's example 0:19:40.596 --> 0:19:43.636 of us wanting to emulate the environmental habits of our neighbors. 0:19:44.516 --> 0:19:47.596 So what other psychological hacks might help us deal more 0:19:47.596 --> 0:19:49.236 effectively with climate change? 0:19:49.596 --> 0:19:51.716 Dan will tell us more after the break. 0:19:59.796 --> 0:20:02.596 Tragically, climate change isn't the kind of threat humans are 0:20:02.596 --> 0:20:05.236 good at dealing with. We swing into action if we're 0:20:05.236 --> 0:20:07.956 put in danger by something sudden or by some cruel 0:20:07.996 --> 0:20:11.556 person out to harm us, and Harvard's psychologist Dan Gilbert 0:20:11.556 --> 0:20:14.196 says we're also more likely to take action if we 0:20:14.236 --> 0:20:16.276 think our individual behaviors. 0:20:15.836 --> 0:20:17.476 Will have a real effect on the problem. 0:20:18.116 --> 0:20:20.916 Unfortunately, we don't always feel like that's the case with 0:20:20.996 --> 0:20:22.876 an issue as huge as global heating. 0:20:24.236 --> 0:20:27.516 Do I pay for offsetting the carbon on my next 0:20:27.676 --> 0:20:30.756 airplane ride? Okay, I guess that would be good. But 0:20:31.076 --> 0:20:34.196 surely if I do that or don't, I can't imagine 0:20:34.196 --> 0:20:36.756 that the world will feel the effects of my tiny 0:20:36.916 --> 0:20:38.036 little action. 0:20:38.916 --> 0:20:42.396 But don't despair, because our mind's biases can be harnessed 0:20:42.396 --> 0:20:45.196 to help solve environmental problems in the blink of an eye, 0:20:45.516 --> 0:20:48.156 provided those problems are framed in the right way. 0:20:48.636 --> 0:20:52.196