WEBVTT - Haun Ventures Founder & CEO Katie Haun 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:05.320 Hello, good, how are you. It's so great to see. 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:08.479 Thank you so much for doing this. What do you 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.600 think about all the sleeves getting into crypto? I think 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:17.720 that that. I think it was more last hear um. 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:19.800 You think it's kind of a way of it passed. No, 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:23.040 I don't think so. But I think it's like any 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:26.560 time that. Frankly, it's when a lot of other people 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.200 get into crypto. Write other audiences too. It's once in 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:31.000 the news a lot and when does that happen a 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:35.879 lot of times when the prices are going out? Hi everyone, 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:39.080 and welcome to this edition of Bloomberg Studio one point. Oh, 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.440 I'm so excited about our guest today. She started her 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:46.000 career as a federal prosecutor, going after gangs and the 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:52.320 mob before being handed her most consequential assignment, taking down bitcoin. 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:56.600 Katie Han soon realized this new technology was much more 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.880 than a tool used by criminals. She dove deep and 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.280 became a crypto convert, swapping her prosecutor hat for a 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.520 board seat at coin Base and became the first female 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:10.600 general partner at the venture capital firm and recent Horowitz. Han, 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:15.039 now a prolific crypto investor, recently launched her own fund 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.520 with one and a half billion dollars to deploy. It's 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:22.760 the largest fund ever raised by a Soul investor. Here's 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.480 my conversation with the CEO and founder of Han Ventures, 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:40.520 Katie Han. Katie, it's so great to have you. Great 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:42.600 to be back here in the studio with you. Emily, 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.480 I want to start with a vibe check. Okay, what 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:48.960 state of the crypto cycle are we in right now? 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:53.320 It was hot and then it got pretty cold. Well, 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:56.400 look Emily zooming back. Because I've been in crypto for 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:59.360 a decade, if you can believe it, We've seen crypto 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:01.320 be really hot and then all of a sudden not 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:04.840 um and so we've seen this before. However, I think 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:06.640 one of the things that's a little bit different now 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.280 is with each new cryptocycle, more and more people come 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.280 into it, and so it's more and more pronounced each cycle, 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.440 and I would push back on it's not I think 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.280 it depends on what area of the ecosystem you're looking at. 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.440 We think developers think crypto and Web three is still 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:23.880 really hot. I am seeing a lot less of those 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.640 we're all going to make it hashtags. I'm seeing a 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:28.880 lot less of them too, although I am spending less 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.920 time on Twitter, so maybe that's why. Well, but with 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:35.799 each cycle there are there are new acronyms. What hasn't 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.960 happened is a crypto winter in the midst of kind 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:43.280 of really serious global macro conditions. So we have inflation 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:45.840 kind of record highs for our generation and in our 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.399 lifetime UM, and then we have also a war that's 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.720 broken out in the Ukraine, and we have a number 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:54.280 of other factors going on here, so that's very different. 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:59.720 There was some serious carnage out there, Sausius Luna three hours. 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.320 What's been your takeaways from I don't want to sit 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:05.919 here and tell you that algorithmic stable coins are bad, 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.560 because I actually think they're really interesting UM. However, I 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.760 think what happened is you had UM in this case. 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.360 You mentioned Luna and Tara. You know that was an 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:19.280 algorithmic stable coin UM that was getting pretty widespread adoption 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:24.160 UM relative to what the tech could do. I didn't 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.720 realize you spent your teenaged years living in Egypt and 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:33.720 learning Arabic. Tell me about your upbringing. I was always uprooted. UM. 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:36.160 My dad worked for a large company and we were 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:38.840 always moving. Just when I would get comfortable in one space. 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:41.440 And I think, actually that's pretty important if you fast 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.920 toward and look at my career. Um, I'm comfortable being 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.520 in uncomfortable situations, you know. I was. I didn't know 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.240 a lot about venture when I got into it initially. Um, 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:53.760 I didn't know a lot about crypto when I got 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.880 into it initially, And I was okay asking questions. I 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.760 was okay not knowing the local acronyms or a nomenclature 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:03.600 of a particular field. And I'm you know, I'm taken 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.280 right back to my teenagers in Cairo, moving from Houston, 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:10.960 Texas one day to downtown Mahdi in Cairo the next day. 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.520 You studied law. I did you clerked for Supreme Court 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:18.599 Justice Anthony Kennedy? Right? You became a federal prosecutor. You 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:22.800 were taking on prison gangs and the mafia. That must 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:25.640 have taken a really thick skin, And I was doing 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:29.760 it at um. And now, if I kind of take 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:31.840 a step back, and you I think that happens at 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.120 different points in your career, Like WHOA if I would 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.320 have analyzed that a little more at the time, And 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:37.919 I'm kind of in some ways glad I didn't. I 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.040 just dove right in because I found it fascinating. There 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.520 was a human aspect to it and people's stories, and 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.280 I felt like those stories mattered. So I was drawn 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:50.000 to criminal law and became a federal prosecutor, and I 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.680 did cases involving violent crime, but then really mistrying cases, 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:56.200 being back in the courtroom, being before the grand jury. 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:58.880 Like the prosecutor you would see on TV going to 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:01.880 try those murder case is doing those two hour closing argument. 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.799 That's right. And so moved out here to California indict 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:06.800 at the largest prison gang in the world at the time. 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:12.039 UM outlaw, motorcycle gangs, hostage taking. Bank robberies are bank robberies. 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.760 There was really not a kind of criminal case. By 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.279 that point in my career I hadn't done. And it 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:21.479 was right around that time two twelve one of my 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.560 bosses came in and said, let's have that same energy 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:28.520 that you brought to those gang cases, to those murder cases, 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:31.960 and let's go ahead and have you investigate this new 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:34.880 criminal technology that we really need to look into and 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:38.600 possibly shut this down. So you created the first cryptocurrency, 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:41.880 how would you describe it? Fortunately, several of us in 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:44.880 the government realized at the time it's not possible, also 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:48.039 not desirable, because bitcoin is not an entity. It's not 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:51.720 a person um right, it's a protocol, And it would 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:53.760 be like saying, let's go shut down cash, let's go 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.840 shut down the Internet. It's not possible. Probably wouldn't be 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.560 a good idea either. And I was using crypto and 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.279 techno allergies like the bitcoin blockchain, because that's all it existed. 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:08.640 Then this is to actually uncover criminal activity. So I 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.560 didn't think that that technology was bad. Frankly, it was 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:15.560 a tool that helped me uncover the various activity. And 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.839 by the way, it was a step level function improvement 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:24.000 better then compliance by banks. I'll just go ahead and 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.440 say it. That's a little bit controversial, but I had 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:31.760 spent a decade subpoenaing large financial institutions and five times 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:34.039 out of ten didn't get back what I needed. One 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:35.920 case I worked on and people always say, oh, you 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.880 shot down the silk road. What actually happened. I was 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.120 looking into something completely not having to do with anything 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.320 at all of the silk road and came across some 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:48.400 what looked to be some kind of odd activity, and 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.960 it turns out that a couple of federal agents on 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.720 the Silk Road test force out of Washington, d C. 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.640 Were croaked. And that is the case that I ended 0:06:57.720 --> 0:06:59.960 up in dibting and I ended up prosecuting those agents 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.760 sin they both went to prison. So that's the aspect 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:04.600 of what the Silk Road case that I worked on. 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:09.280 I would never never have been able to uncover that 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.320 criminal activity by those agents because they were federal agents, 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.080 they knew how to cover their tracks. Had they not 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:19.680 used bitcoin blockchain, right that, so that technology right there, 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:24.960 if they had just used wires or cash or bank wires, 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:27.520 we would never have uncovered that. So you became kind 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:30.520 of a crypto convert after this. You joined the board 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.800 of coin base very early on. How did you in 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:37.760 coin Base and Brian Armstrong come together. I hosted UM 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.400 an event here in San Francisco at the Federal Reserve Bank, 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:44.119 and I believe it was there that it wasn't just Brian. 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.200 It was a lot of what I'll call legitimate actors 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.440 and crypto who wanted to usher in this new UM wave, 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.840 this new ecosystem UM. And then we brought together the 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.600 heads of all kinds of agencies really in an effort 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.920 to kind of talk about building bridges. You know, the 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.040 government and the crypto industry. We're never going to see 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:02.720 eye eye on a lot of things, but we did 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:05.679 think there were some commonalities. Coin Based is a company 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.760 that has suffered. They've been losing share, the valuation of 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:12.200 the public markets has plummeted. Why do you think that 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.520 is and how do you think it can be fixed? Yeah, well, 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.840 I think again a few things. It's tied to one, 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:19.720 a large aspect of coin BASAs business now of course, 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.680 as trading revenue, and that's down when prices are down, 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.440 and you know, the company has been very transparent about 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:28.240 that long before going public. I mean also, if you 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.800 look at its S one, it's specifically identifies that um 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.480 and just how volatile crypto cycles are. So I think 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.040 that's part of it. It's judged, you know, by public 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:40.880 markets as a technology stock or as a financial services company. 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:42.600 By the way, I think it's both. I think it's 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.560 not just a financial services company. I think it's so 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.440 much more. I think it's really a portal to this 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:50.760 whole new ecosystem. You are also on the board of 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:55.000 openc until recently, Uh, there's an insider trading situation or 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:58.040 accusation going on. Their coin Base has also had employees 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:00.840 accused of insider trading. How much is this happening within 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.080 crypto companies and within the industry and how big a 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:05.920 problem is? I think crypto is under the microscope. So 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:09.280 where you have a case, two cases, three cases in 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:14.000 crypto ecosystem, which now is a trillion dollar industry um, 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:18.160 I think multi billion approaching trillion dollar industry, UM, You're 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.840 always going to be able to find examples like that. 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.240 So I don't want to make too much out of 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.000 a handful of cases. That said, the company, coin Base 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.600 opency take these things incredibly seriously. Along with your position 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.559 at coin Base, you became a partner at one of 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.280 the most story venture capital firms and Silicon valiant, that 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:39.240 is Andres and Horowitz. What was your experience at a 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:42.480 sixteen Z like there. I met Chris Dixon, and I 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.680 met Ben Horowitz, and I met Mark Andreison, and I 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:47.840 had worked with them for just about a year, maybe 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.319 a little bit over when they asked me to come 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:54.560 and co run their crypto funds at Andreas and Hearts. Again, 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.000 I jumped at that chance, and I think, really that 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.480 speaks to the fact that, as I've said before, things 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:01.839 are hell yes or there are no. And it was 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.000 a hell yes for me. So Andrewson Harwars is the 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.760 kind of place where if you make partner, you don't leave. 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.920 How did Mark and Ben respond when you said, I 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:11.960 want to leave to start a crypto fund of my own. 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.960 As you might know, Emily, Um, they're an anchor. Uh, 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.079 They're an anchor check into my fund. And I'm very 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.360 grateful for that. You know, Mark and Chris and folks 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.360 like them are also personal LPs um. So I felt 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:27.440 very supported um when I shared that decision. Um. And 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:29.760 I will say that it was not running away from 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.600 Anderson Harts. It was running to another opportunity. And you know, 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.480 crypto is not what do they say, It's not a 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.800 spectator sport. It's like you're in it, excuse very young. 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:44.640 It's seven, it's global, and it's hustle and at this 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:46.760 and that's a trade off. It's a life trade off. 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.199 And at this point in my career and in my life, 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.520 if I was going to continue to make that trade off, 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:53.320 I just wanted to do it and do it in 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.240 a way that was really true to me. So you 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.800 struck out on your own to launch on ventures. What 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:01.079 gave you the courage to do that? What was the 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.319 spark that like the fire? Yeah, that got you to say, 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:06.360 I need to do this and do this now. Sure. 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:10.120 What I set out to do was to continue to 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:12.439 invest in this ecosystem that I think is so broad. 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:16.119 That decision was very purposeful and the timing was very purposeful. 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.120 We have an early stage fund that does seed stage, 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.920 Series A, even Series B, and then we have what 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.320 we call an acceleration fund, which is it's not a 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:26.319 growth fund, it's a crypto growth fund, and I think 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.160 those are different things. But later stage it might be 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:33.560 crypto publics um certain kinds of public tokens were set 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.520 up to hold tokens to participate in the token ecosystem 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.079 or later stage companies. I mean, you know there are 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:45.360 now several crypto many crypto unicorns. Space has become really competitive. 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.240 Even though you say, um, you know, crypto has had 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:51.160 its kind of ups and downs. The thing is a 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.280 lot of people in some of those last cycles have 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:56.360 seen the kind of venture style returns that can be 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:58.800 had in crypto, and so you've had a lot of 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:02.800 new funds enter space. And that's driven up competition. So 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.719 what differentiates on ventures then from you know, all of 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:09.360 these other crypto funds or even the more traditional venture 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:11.840 capitalists like Couentries and Horowitz or Schekoia they also have 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:15.079 crypto funds. Well, I think a lot of traditional venture 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.080 capital funds now have crypto funds. It used to just 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.440 be like a regulatory designation. It was like, are you 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.960 an r i A, which is registered investment advisor. I 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.280 would say for crypto founders today, um, it's not enough 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.600 to just be an r i A. Right they frankly, 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:31.120 I don't even know if a lot of them care 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:34.880 that's a regulatory designation. What crypto founders today want to 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.280 know is do you live in breath crypto? Do you 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:39.920 inhale the discords? Are you part of the community, do 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.680 you participate in governance? Are you going to be um 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:46.679 staking these kind of crypto verbs um out there? And 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.640 if you're not really in this space full time, I 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:53.640 think it's very hard to run a successful crypto fund. 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.360 We don't have a hedge fund component, so we're not 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.360 sitting here buying and trading and selling. Um that's a 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.600 hedge fund. Star sure, and there are crypto hedge funds. Um, 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.520 we're not one. We're making seven to ten yere bets. 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:07.320 Just how hard is it to launch a crypto fund 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.760 from scratch? You know it's hard, but it's not impossible, 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:11.520 and we not have a crystal ball. I don't know. 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:13.920 I can't predict cycles, but I knew that we were 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.400 in a cycle where you saw so much forever an 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.000 excitement around the space. And I already talked about what 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.440 makes us different. But I think one thing also is 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:23.959 we are a nimble strike force. We don't fish in 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.400 the same pond we have the crypto natives. We have 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:30.080 a fish and execution. We have operators, seasoned operators who 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.160 really know how to stick the landing. And I think 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.520 that's reflected on our culture. I would say the only 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.760 thing that's changed in our strategy as a result of 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:40.000 the market correction is really more of a focus on 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.720 early stage. But we still have our late stage fund 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.120 and when we see valuations, which I think we'll still 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:51.000 see correct um spoiler, I think we'll continue to see 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.840 some corrections and um, so we might deploy our later 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:57.000 stage fund a little bit more slowly. It might not 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:00.640 be on an even cadence and that's okay. Long term, 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.520 our strategy hasn't changed. Long term, We're committed to this space. 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:05.400 How much do you think valuations are going to correct? 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:07.440 You know, it's just I can't give you a one 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:09.680 size fits all answer because crypto is not a monolith. 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.839 You have some crypto companies that really follow more of 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.120 an enterprise sas business model. You have others that are 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.560 layer one protocols UM. You have still others that are 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.000 consumer facing applications. And I think one of the things 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.880 we're seeing right now is the infrastructure layer, and that's 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:26.640 where we're spending a lot of our time, by the way, 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.000 and we think more and more use cases will come 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.240 about when the infrastructure layers in place. UM So, my 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.920 own view is we are not rushing to deploy. We're 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.520 certainly not getting caught up. Do you get VC try 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:41.440 not to avoid that. You know, Look, I think it's 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:45.680 very easy to get into that mindset, right. It's because 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:49.560 it's a competitive sport. It's a competitive space, and I 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:51.520 think I'd be lying if I said that that doesn't 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.880 influence anyone. I try to what I do, and I 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.120 think I do differently is I try to take stock 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.880 of that Oh, that's the foam of mentality kicking in. 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:01.960 That's bad um. Again, you don't want to over correct, though. 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.520 What we look for is we look for amazing founders. 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.280 It doesn't matter if I think valuations will correct. If 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.400 there are amazing founders, there's a huge tam We also 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.720 look for what's your regulatory plan if you're launching a token, 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:16.760 what's your plan to comply with the law. What's your 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.360 plan for security? By the way, we've seen a lot 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:21.760 of hacks in the space. We want to really dive 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:23.840 in there and make sure that the founders have been 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:27.560 thoughtful about especially if they're custoding customer funds, keeping those 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.440 funds secure. If it's a cross chain bridge, what are 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.280 the exploits? Have you changed your strategy at all given 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.040 the downturn? Have you backed out of any deals? Are 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:40.360 decided not to do certain deals because the conditions have changed? 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:41.920 Don't you raise the fund We have decided not to 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:43.600 do certain deals. We've never backed out of a deal. 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:47.120 We have decided not to do a few deals because 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:50.960 we think that pricing was ahead of progress, candidly, and 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:52.840 we might have been wrong about that, Emily, we might 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:54.600 have been wrong about that. But I think if we 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.800 were wrong not to do a couple of deals, um 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.680 better that we might have been right, because if we 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.960 were wrong about that, I think we can find a 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.240 way to still invest in those projects later. Well, one 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.000 thing I'm here is that a lot of dry powder 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.960 has just stacked up because all these funds raised a 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:13.680 lot of money. You raised what what? What was the 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.200 biggest fund ever for a single person, not just a 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.360 woman anyone. Are you confident you're gonna have to a 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.560 place to put all that money? I am, But if 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:23.040 I don't have a place to put it, I'm not 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.640 just going to go willing nearly deploy it. One of 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.800 the things that we told our LPs, even during the 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.480 period when we raised our fund, which was when Crypto 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.080 was undeniably still on a bull run, we said that 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.440 we are going to be pretty steadfast sticking to it, 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:39.840 to your deployment cycle. Um. And you know, I think 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.520 one thing that's changed is that might have lengthened. Um. 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.720 It certainly hasn't shortened, But we will again we have 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:49.680 We feel very good that we have the capital to 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:51.880 back greet teams when we see them. What about n 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.960 f T s and are you concerned about the declining demand. 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.600 We are going to increasingly live in a digital world, 0:16:58.000 --> 0:16:59.800 and I happen to think that if you live in 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:03.240 a dual world, you're going to want to own digital goods. 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.400 In that world, you're not just going to be satisfied 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:07.840 to rent them, which is what we do now. We 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:12.680 buy our content from walled gardens without digital scarcity, which 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.640 is what n f T s unlock. You don't really 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.200 own anything. You're subject to the whims of a platform. 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.159 And I think n f T s and digitally scarce 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.919 goods fundamentally change that. I think you'll see n f 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.920 T s back again. Um, but we are spending a 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.040 lot of time in the infrastructure layer, like I tell you, 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:33.199 zero knowledge, technologies, scalability. We think of that as like 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.360 the plumbing. If you think of the fiber optic cables, 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.879 remember you couldn't have had YouTube and Netflix with dial up. 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.159 You couldn't have streamed content. The same is true of 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.600 crypto use cases. We think that there will be a 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.640 lot of new use cases unlocked when the infrastructure is there, 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.320 when it's more efficient, when it's more user friendly, and 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.640 so we're spending a lot of our time there. President 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:57.520 buying issues. This Crypto Executive Order, there a number of 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.040 ports that are coming to What do you want to 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.520 see from the administration when it comes to regulation and 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.639 are you optimistic that we will get there? Yeah, we 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:08.960 were so delighted to see that executive order. This is 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:10.960 not something you should normally be delighted about. But why 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.000 we were is because it was to us a real 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:17.000 recognition that this is the US government saying this field 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:19.879 isn't going anywhere. This field is growing, is growing so 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.600 much that we are going to direct every single agency 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:24.720 in the federal government to come up with a plan. Here. 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:27.199 I think, you know, we take a step forward, but 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.840 then you see, you know, we're a big government, we're 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.760 a big system. We have states, we have local entities. 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.320 So we take a step forward with the EO, and 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.800 then we take some steps back sometimes too. And I 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.960 think what I UM see as crypto founders are confused 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:43.600 by that. They're starting to think, well, I could go 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.439 to this jurisdiction where there's a single regulator and you 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:49.080 don't have fifty states with different rules. It's the U. 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:51.840 S Government that needs to start taking stock of the 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.879 fact that right now, Emily in China, UM there's a 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.760 quarter of a billion e c N y wallets, a 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.040 quarter of a billion. Um. We're still talking about whether 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.480 there should be a government central bank digital currency. We're 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:07.720 still studying that. So you think we're going to fall 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.680 behind the United I think we already are falling behind behind. 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.000 We're falling behind. What are the dangers of falling behind 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.720 China and the rest of the world. This is years ahead, 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.040 So I don't want people to take a headline and say, oh, 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.080 I think the US dollar will be you know, no 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.960 longer the global currency reserve, global currency. I'm not saying 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.760 that now. But fast forward decades and if you no 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:30.920 longer need to use the dollar because you have an alternative, Um, 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.240 I think that's a real problem. What would we use instead? Well, 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.480 I think that there are going to be stable coins 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:41.520 out there that people who have access to a smartphone 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.359 will use. There is a demand for it. We saw 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:48.119 two year of your growth with stable coins, so people 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:51.800 are clearly liking the idea of this. Now again, there 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:55.240 have been some spectacular failures too, but not all stable 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.960 coins are created the same. But I think the important 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.120 thing is that we really do need to not quahtion innovation. 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:02.880 What do you think of how Gary Gensler, the chair 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.240 of the SEC, and how he's approaching it. One of 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:07.480 the things that I hear from founders is that they're 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:10.760 very confused because they get told come in, register, just 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:12.760 come in and talk to us. But you have the 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:15.400 one company who has done the ultimate act of going 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.639 in and registering coin based filed and s one UM 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:21.399 and still, you know, there's a lot of saber rattling 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.560