WEBVTT - Kev Finds Out Shantel Smith Has Lived Many Lives

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<v Speaker 1>I think your story is so interesting of like where

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<v Speaker 1>you grew up, right, how you grew up, troubled youth, arms, dealer, euphoria,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, right? What up? Y'all? At your boy? keV

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<v Speaker 1>on stage, Welcome to Not My Best Moment, a podcast

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<v Speaker 1>where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, friends of minds

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<v Speaker 1>about their successes and their failures, based on my New

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<v Speaker 1>York Times best selling book Successful Failure by me Kevin Fredericks. Today,

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<v Speaker 1>we have a very special guest. We're in my creator bag. Guys,

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<v Speaker 1>we stepped away from the athletes and we're focusing on

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<v Speaker 1>the creators because I am a creator and the creators

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<v Speaker 1>are my community and I want to highlight them on

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<v Speaker 1>this podcast a little bit more. And we're continuing that

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<v Speaker 1>with Shan Tail Smith. Now. You may know her from Survivor.

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<v Speaker 1>You may know her from being an entrepreneur. You may

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<v Speaker 1>know her as a content creators, which is how I

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<v Speaker 1>found out about her. You may know her soon from

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<v Speaker 1>her work on The Airport. She was one of the

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<v Speaker 1>new cast members on the Airport, which will be airing

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<v Speaker 1>on TV in November. She was also a writer, a

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<v Speaker 1>very brilliant writer for the show, as well, one of

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<v Speaker 1>my favorites that contributed to the show. I found out

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<v Speaker 1>about her on social media. She is very funny, her

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<v Speaker 1>her husband, her dog. Is that your dog or just

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<v Speaker 1>videos with a dogg Okay, please welcome to the show,

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<v Speaker 1>Shantel Smith.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Clap back home too. Just because you're driving or working

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<v Speaker 1>or cleaning up. Don't think you ain't got to clap.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'll know if you clapped or not. And don't

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<v Speaker 1>be selfish. We can feel h Chntel. I want to

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<v Speaker 1>dive right in. Okay. I know people might want to

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<v Speaker 1>talk to you about survivor and we may get to that.

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<v Speaker 1>But over our brief months long friendship, somewhere along the way,

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<v Speaker 1>I found out that you were a pastor and you

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<v Speaker 1>went to would you call it seminary? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>I went to seminary for like three years.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, spent three years in seminary. You were pastoring at

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<v Speaker 1>a high level, and now you are completely unchurched. What happened?

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<v Speaker 1>Why you don't love him?

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<v Speaker 2>No?

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<v Speaker 1>Mo oh my god, I mean why you don't love him? No, moa,

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<v Speaker 1>let's talk about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh man? I do I love the people still, I

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<v Speaker 2>really love the people. If it was up to a

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<v Speaker 2>certain select group people, I might still be there. But no, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's a totally okay if we don't get the survivor,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm okay not talking about to completely. I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 2>leave that in my past perfect And.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't even know you was on there forget about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. No, So I was a pastor for eleven years,

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<v Speaker 2>eleven years of my life. Yeah, and I wasn't. I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't grow up in the church. I found my way

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<v Speaker 2>into the church. Church helped me get sober, helped me

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<v Speaker 2>get clean, got me off the streets.

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<v Speaker 1>Whoa, whoa? What was hey? Hey? Hey?

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<v Speaker 2>What was what was going on? Stown?

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<v Speaker 1>What was you doing?

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<v Speaker 2>I was a hot mess. I mean I grew up

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<v Speaker 2>a single parent household. My mom battle was an addiction

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<v Speaker 2>to cocaine. She passed away in twenty seventeen, and so

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<v Speaker 2>there was just a lot going on in that household.

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<v Speaker 2>Stuff was always popping off. And so I was a

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<v Speaker 2>troubled youth. As they say, I guess that's what I

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<v Speaker 2>was branded as.

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<v Speaker 1>Were you really I was.

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<v Speaker 2>I was a little I was a little fighter. I

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<v Speaker 2>was like moving weapons across the city. I was doing

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<v Speaker 2>some crazy stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you being for real right now?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>No, I'm not lying moving weapons. I thought you were

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<v Speaker 3>in this bubbly, quirky black woman.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so glad we don't look like what we've been through,

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<v Speaker 2>right phraise God that you don't look like that.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't know you was waits across state lines.

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<v Speaker 3>You had the federal the federal rallies after you.

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<v Speaker 2>I was doing that. I was also flipping counterfeit money,

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<v Speaker 2>making fake bus tickets. I was like, I was in

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<v Speaker 2>my bag. I was in my like little criminal bag.

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<v Speaker 2>I said, I don't know, you're like, who's on the

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<v Speaker 2>podcast right now?

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<v Speaker 3>I literally I would never get we need the Shattell

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<v Speaker 3>Smith's biopic Queue it up, Netflix. I had no I

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<v Speaker 3>found you on Instagram and TikTok, and I just been

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<v Speaker 3>following you ever since. I didn't I didn't dig into

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<v Speaker 3>your trouble past trouble.

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<v Speaker 2>I was troubled, dysfunctional and troubled. But yeah, I was

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<v Speaker 2>just like, you know, I think my mom just dealing

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<v Speaker 2>with a lot of like her own demons, like alcoholism

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<v Speaker 2>and drugs. I was just very angry, and then my

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<v Speaker 2>dad left when I was really young, and that just

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<v Speaker 2>you know that just hit really really hard because I

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<v Speaker 2>was a daddy's girl as a kid, Caribbean Jamaican man

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<v Speaker 2>who's like now one of my best friends and like

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<v Speaker 2>talk to him about everything, but we had a rough patch.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, No, when I came to the church, people

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<v Speaker 2>recognized that I had a gift to like preach and teach.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess people make people laugh from upfront us as

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<v Speaker 2>well as talking about the gospel. I guess that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of equates to having a pastoral gift. But I do

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<v Speaker 2>want to say, not all pastors are preachers, and not

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<v Speaker 2>all preachers are pastors, you know. So I was a

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<v Speaker 2>very gifted speaker, but like in terms of like sitting

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<v Speaker 2>with the people and like knowing everybody's name, like that's

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<v Speaker 2>a pastoral gift. I didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't have that.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't feel like I did. I mean, I love people,

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<v Speaker 2>but I was very much like an upfront personality, and

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<v Speaker 2>so I was catapulted to the cat to the pulpit

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<v Speaker 2>space very early on. And then I went decided I

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<v Speaker 2>really wanted to keep learning more about God. I was

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<v Speaker 2>just so hungry and thirsty for the Gospel and for

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<v Speaker 2>the good News, and like the desire just to know

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<v Speaker 2>more about him and this God that forgives, and so

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<v Speaker 2>I went on to sem I went onto my under

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<v Speaker 2>graduate studies at Tyndall University that's in Toronto, named after

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<v Speaker 2>William Tenniel Tyndale, the English translator of the Bible. And

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<v Speaker 2>then I went on to seminary in Michigan. So I

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<v Speaker 2>was there for about yeah, three four years, and then

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<v Speaker 2>completed my doctorate in Peach in Hebrew studies because I

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<v Speaker 2>just loved the Old Testament. So and then I got

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<v Speaker 2>picked up as a well. After that, so much going on, No,

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<v Speaker 2>this is you, this is your story.

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<v Speaker 3>Do not feel led to rush. The people are here

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<v Speaker 3>to learn about Chantell Smith.

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<v Speaker 1>It's me. I'm the people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. After that, Actually, women in ministry weren't like a

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<v Speaker 2>big hot commodity at that time like they were. Actually

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<v Speaker 2>it was very like taboo to be a woman in ministry.

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<v Speaker 2>Around twenty thirteen twenty fourteen, so I went overseas the

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<v Speaker 2>Thailand and Cambodi, and I worked in the area of

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<v Speaker 2>anti sex trafficking kind of on this side of correction,

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<v Speaker 2>not so much prevention, because you're working more on the

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<v Speaker 2>corrective side, like helping people get rehabilitated and teaching microfinance

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<v Speaker 2>and so, like, I just wanted to give back, and

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<v Speaker 2>that was my way of giving back and showing up

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<v Speaker 2>in the world. And then I got hired as a

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<v Speaker 2>chaplain at a university in Canada, and I went and

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<v Speaker 2>pastored there for a year. And then I got hired

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<v Speaker 2>to come down south to California, and that's time I

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<v Speaker 2>made my way back across the border and pastored as

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<v Speaker 2>a chaplain at a university there. So and then I

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<v Speaker 2>got hired as a pastor in DC, and then I

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<v Speaker 2>was pastoring there for a while. So yeah, and then

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<v Speaker 2>the church just didn't want me anymore.

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<v Speaker 3>Not hold on you. You're breathing through act wanting you're

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<v Speaker 3>into act too.

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<v Speaker 2>It's too much, it's too much.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, I don't know much time we have.

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<v Speaker 2>Just get get to the good stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>We got time. So so I love that you. So

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<v Speaker 1>let me let me just for clarification, when you.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you have a master's in Divinity or PhD? What what?

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<v Speaker 1>What did you end up finishing when you were done

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<v Speaker 1>with seminary?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I have a master's in Divinity and focus

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<v Speaker 2>in Old Testament with a PhD in Hebrew, specifically the

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<v Speaker 2>biblical So I didn't complete that, but that's I've done

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<v Speaker 2>up to the PhD level and extensive studies of that area.

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<v Speaker 2>So just kind of rounds off to being a doctorate

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<v Speaker 2>in Biblical Hebrew, but not necessarily entire whole Testament. But

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<v Speaker 2>that was what my focus was.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So what just out of share curiosity, what drew

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<v Speaker 1>you to Hebrew?

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<v Speaker 3>Was it?

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<v Speaker 1>Is it understanding the language, is it the cultures, the

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<v Speaker 1>customs or what was your focus specifically.

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<v Speaker 2>In I was, like I was a part of a

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<v Speaker 2>fundamentalist church, very fundamentalist church, very conservative denomination. I won't

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<v Speaker 2>say what, but for those who know, no, very very legalistic,

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<v Speaker 2>very fear based in my opinion, with extensive doctrines that

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<v Speaker 2>kind of build around the Old Testament and the creative narrative.

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<v Speaker 2>And so for me, like really understanding the Old Testament

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<v Speaker 2>and understanding like the foundation that the New Testament is

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<v Speaker 2>built on was like a key factor for me, kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like understanding who the person of Christ was and

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<v Speaker 2>so and then like I had like a really good

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<v Speaker 2>memory with just memorizing things pretty quickly, so like the

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<v Speaker 2>final forms and the and the like, just Hebrew as

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<v Speaker 2>a language as a pictorial language just stuck really.

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<v Speaker 1>Easily to me, and forms in the parsings, like.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, like just the way that it's read and

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<v Speaker 2>how it looks like the the just the alphabet as

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<v Speaker 2>a whole, the alphabet, the alphabet as a whole, and

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<v Speaker 2>just it all just came very easy to me. And

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<v Speaker 2>I just I really loved it. I love I love

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<v Speaker 2>the Old Testament, I love Hebrew. I don't know where

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<v Speaker 2>that came from, but I just I just had a

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<v Speaker 2>big fascination with it and kind of loved it. And

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<v Speaker 2>I did an anti I did a Holocaust studies trip

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<v Speaker 2>in in my in my final year of college, I think,

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<v Speaker 2>and going overseas the Poland in Germany and learning about

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<v Speaker 2>the Holocaust, So I think that might have had some

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<v Speaker 2>some influence. But mostly I just really liked the language

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<v Speaker 2>and how it looked and how it read and.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, so let's like he's not going to do nothing.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the problem. Like if you were, okay, if you

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<v Speaker 1>were going to really protect the family, it'd be fine,

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<v Speaker 1>but you're not. When the robber gets in, you're going

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<v Speaker 1>to be like my belly exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I think it was, well the church that I

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<v Speaker 2>was a part of was racially segregated in a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of ways. They had white conferences and they had black conferences,

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<v Speaker 2>and that was really weird to me being a Canadian

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<v Speaker 2>because everything is very multicultural up north, and so just

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<v Speaker 2>that was weird. And then the whole issue around women's ordination,

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<v Speaker 2>the idea that women could be deacons or elders but

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't actually pastor and lead from upfront or lead a church,

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<v Speaker 2>was really weird to me that you know, we're trying

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<v Speaker 2>to reach the world and preach this good news, but

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<v Speaker 2>you want to tie one hand behind the back. It's

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<v Speaker 2>like just didn't make a lot of sense to me. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and then also like y'all are going to send me

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<v Speaker 2>to seminary and take my money, but you're not going

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<v Speaker 2>to hire me after to work in a local church

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<v Speaker 2>context is very very strange to me. But I think

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<v Speaker 2>the biggest thing was that there wasn't enough like cry

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<v Speaker 2>room in the church for people, Like there wasn't enough humanity,

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<v Speaker 2>enough room for humanity in the church. Like it was

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of like you have to be, you have

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<v Speaker 2>to do And I spoke out a lot against that,

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<v Speaker 2>and just that these doctrines that we make our end

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<v Speaker 2>all and be all and like kind of make people

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<v Speaker 2>salvation wrapped up and just really don't carry much weight.

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<v Speaker 2>And so and then of course there was the LGBQTI

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<v Speaker 2>a thing, and there were so many young people as

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<v Speaker 2>a chaplain on campuses that I was sitting across from.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's very different to like, you know, talk

0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.000
<v Speaker 2>about this stuff from behind it. It's very easy to

0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:31.960
<v Speaker 2>talk about it from behind a pulpit or even like

0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:34.679
<v Speaker 2>in the seminary or in like a you know, at

0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.560
<v Speaker 2>a conference somewhe where everybody's talking about theology and everyone's

0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:39.760
<v Speaker 2>trying to you know, talk about what's evil and what's good,

0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:41.400
<v Speaker 2>and what's right and what's wrong, and you know, all

0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:45.040
<v Speaker 2>these categories of moral morality. It's it's easy to talk

0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:46.920
<v Speaker 2>about of those spaces. But when you're sitting across from

0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.000
<v Speaker 2>young adults specifically that are really wrestling with their identity

0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:55.080
<v Speaker 2>and they so desperately, like really want to be connected

0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:56.880
<v Speaker 2>to God and they want to belong and they want

0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:59.200
<v Speaker 2>to fit in, and they you know, they like I

0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.560
<v Speaker 2>like walking that journey with so many young people and

0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.640
<v Speaker 2>then seeing the church's outright denial, like in the nicest

0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.000
<v Speaker 2>way possible, like we love the sinner, but we don't

0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.719
<v Speaker 2>love the sin. Like you're here, like not everybody has

0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:12.079
<v Speaker 2>to get married. There are plenty of people around the

0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:13.840
<v Speaker 2>world don't have sex, they don't get married. It's like

0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.319
<v Speaker 2>to deny young people like a really big aspect of

0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.560
<v Speaker 2>their life, which is dating and like interest and attraction

0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:24.080
<v Speaker 2>is just is very it's I don't it's just very,

0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.160
<v Speaker 2>very hard, and it's hard to watch that the like

0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.079
<v Speaker 2>the lights go out in young people and to see

0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.840
<v Speaker 2>them just kind of start to feel like they don't

0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.280
<v Speaker 2>belong or you know, they're going to hell, or they're condemned,

0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:40.280
<v Speaker 2>or they're evil, or they're a part of this you know,

0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:45.320
<v Speaker 2>sinful ideas. To like the sinful thing and that is

0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.600
<v Speaker 2>less than everybody else was just really hard.

0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:48.880
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I so desperately wanted to be like, no, you're fine,

0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.000
<v Speaker 2>it's okay, Like God accepts you, God loves you. But

0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:54.720
<v Speaker 2>then I was like also walking this fine line with

0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:56.880
<v Speaker 2>administration and leadership, and I was serving at a very

0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:59.920
<v Speaker 2>high level. I was working at you know, the division

0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.960
<v Speaker 2>and then you know, the conference and then the local level,

0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.400
<v Speaker 2>and so to be in that space and also be

0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.280
<v Speaker 2>next to young people that were wrestling with their identity

0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:13.000
<v Speaker 2>and also a bunch of other like moral issues. It

0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:15.880
<v Speaker 2>just felt like there was just a lot of stress on,

0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.200
<v Speaker 2>like condemnation and what's right and what's wrong, and not

0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.680
<v Speaker 2>enough grace, not enough room to just be, not enough

0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:24.200
<v Speaker 2>room to just explore God and just be accepted as

0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.120
<v Speaker 2>you are, which is the whole point of the gospel,

0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.160
<v Speaker 2>just be accepted as you are. But it just and

0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.200
<v Speaker 2>so that just started to rub me the wrong way.

0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:33.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, to be a part of a denomination that

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.400
<v Speaker 2>was very racially segregated, that didn't really accept women in

0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.800
<v Speaker 2>ministry and that didn't support the queer community was hard

0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.840
<v Speaker 2>space for me to be in. And then I think doctrinally,

0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:45.839
<v Speaker 2>there were just a lot of things that I stopped believing.

0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:47.679
<v Speaker 2>I stopped believing in Hell because I just didn't see

0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:50.000
<v Speaker 2>it in the text anymore. And you know, I don't

0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.040
<v Speaker 2>think leadership could get on board with a person who

0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.760
<v Speaker 2>just didn't believe that there was a judgment and had

0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.400
<v Speaker 2>justice coming. And I'm like, I just I mean, I

0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 2>might be I might be a heretic, I might be

0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:02.600
<v Speaker 2>might be crazy.

0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm false teacher, false prophet, even though I never said

0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.400
<v Speaker 1>I was a teacher or a prophet, heretics, false prophets,

0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:09.040
<v Speaker 1>you nite.

0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:15.839
<v Speaker 2>This podcast podcast, and so yeah, I'm like, I might

0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.160
<v Speaker 2>be a heretic, but also like, you know, show me

0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:20.080
<v Speaker 2>in the text where this is and you know, and

0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.080
<v Speaker 2>I'll preach it. But I just stopped believing in that

0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.800
<v Speaker 2>stuff and I just started focusing on the person of Christ.

0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:26.800
<v Speaker 2>And the more I focus on who Jesus was, the

0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:31.200
<v Speaker 2>further I went, Like the further I became with the church, like,

0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:32.880
<v Speaker 2>the more distance that came between me and the church,

0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:34.360
<v Speaker 2>and I started to realize, I just don't think that

0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Jesus really messes with the church like that. I mean,

0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.360
<v Speaker 2>I think I don't think he does. I don't think

0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:40.280
<v Speaker 2>he at least leadership, you know what I mean. It's

0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.440
<v Speaker 2>very much like the relationship with the statist Saddest he's

0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.440
<v Speaker 2>in the Pharisees. It's like, I think he's there for

0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:46.280
<v Speaker 2>the people and will work with the people that are

0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.040
<v Speaker 2>in that space, but leadership, like I think I don't

0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.000
<v Speaker 2>know if God rocks with them like that. I just don't.

0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't believe it. I don't know why, but I

0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:54.440
<v Speaker 2>just don't. And I just didn't want to be a

0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:55.480
<v Speaker 2>part of that anymore.

0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:00.080
<v Speaker 1>So that's so interesting. I have been wrestling with this

0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:06.640
<v Speaker 1>very publicly over the last few years, but more specifically

0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:10.320
<v Speaker 1>the last few months. And if you have been living

0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:12.240
<v Speaker 1>under a rock and this EPISODEI come out in a

0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.880
<v Speaker 1>few weeks from when we're actually shooting this, So maybe

0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:16.600
<v Speaker 1>it'll die down, maybe it'll go up again.

0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh it's not going anywhere.

0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Just growing and growing and growing. But I have also

0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:26.120
<v Speaker 1>been publicly, I want to put it like this, publicly

0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:30.200
<v Speaker 1>struggling with my faith. And I used the term the

0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:34.920
<v Speaker 1>way the Bible was taught to me and how I

0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.400
<v Speaker 1>am interpreting it for myself. That's I've had a lot

0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:43.320
<v Speaker 1>of the same issues that you have brought up in myself.

0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:45.080
<v Speaker 1>It's like, and I used to work with young people

0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.320
<v Speaker 1>as well, and you know, and I also in my

0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:50.360
<v Speaker 1>in my job, I often interact with a lot of

0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.200
<v Speaker 1>people who are not Christians at all, and very similar

0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.200
<v Speaker 1>to when I worked at Bank of America. First thing

0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.160
<v Speaker 1>they tell you in training is, hey, man, you can

0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.960
<v Speaker 1>serve any religion you have, but in this workplace, you

0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.640
<v Speaker 1>can't bring none of that in here, because you know,

0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.240
<v Speaker 1>like I always joke about, but this was actually true.

0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:10.920
<v Speaker 1>I worked with a witch, like an actual practice practicing

0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:15.320
<v Speaker 1>wiccan when I lived in Tacoma and didn't know about it.

0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:18.120
<v Speaker 1>And you know, obviously the way I grew up, very

0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:22.400
<v Speaker 1>fundamentalist Pentecostal, you you were going to hellvy were not

0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:25.360
<v Speaker 1>saved like us, the exact way we are saved. If

0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.240
<v Speaker 1>you are a witch. I'm certain there was a special place.

0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.040
<v Speaker 1>But the thing that was interesting is I worked with

0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:32.680
<v Speaker 1>this lady for like four years. I didn't know she

0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:34.560
<v Speaker 1>was a witch until like the last six months we

0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:36.400
<v Speaker 1>worked together, and I'm like, you don't.

0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:38.760
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what I thought witches looked like, but

0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:42.080
<v Speaker 3>you was just we've been working on this teller line

0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.880
<v Speaker 3>for like a year. We'd be laughing and joking, you know,

0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.160
<v Speaker 3>in the breakroom together. I ain't see no hocus focus,

0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:50.400
<v Speaker 3>no stools, no Eye of newt you know.

0:16:50.680 --> 0:17:01.440
<v Speaker 1>So, but specifically about homosexuality and stuff, I was in

0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.920
<v Speaker 1>hot water on both sides, but specifically about the church

0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:07.480
<v Speaker 1>because I was struggling.

0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:08.399
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:10.600
<v Speaker 1>Basically, I said, I lead with love when it comes

0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:15.159
<v Speaker 1>to queer saints and same sex lovers. And then you know,

0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.520
<v Speaker 1>somebody asked me, do I even think it's a sin anymore?

0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.400
<v Speaker 1>And I had to really chinto how to really take

0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.359
<v Speaker 1>stock of my life, not what I thought, like, I

0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.040
<v Speaker 1>really thought about how I've been living my life in

0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.760
<v Speaker 1>practice over the last ten or fifteen years, and there

0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:29.640
<v Speaker 1>was nothing in my life that said I even thought

0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:34.159
<v Speaker 1>this was sinful anymore, No biblical evidence, nothing. I'm just saying.

0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.880
<v Speaker 1>I was struggling with why God would design people with

0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.840
<v Speaker 1>no way out, like what we are deeming is their sin.

0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.399
<v Speaker 1>There's nothing they can do or atone for it. This

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:46.879
<v Speaker 1>is just how they live their life. Everything else that

0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.359
<v Speaker 1>they did, you know, lying for example, if I lie

0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.159
<v Speaker 1>to you chantel, that hurts you. If I murder you,

0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:54.400
<v Speaker 1>that obviously hurts you when it hurts your family as well.

0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.920
<v Speaker 1>But I was struggling how a same sex consensual adult,

0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.520
<v Speaker 1>how that is inherently sinful and why that would be

0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:05.240
<v Speaker 1>cause quite the hullabaloo. So we were talking off camera,

0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.320
<v Speaker 1>and you were you were You were informed me with

0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.480
<v Speaker 1>some of your m dev and your theology studies that

0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.520
<v Speaker 1>you believe so much about homosexual homosexuality in the church

0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:16.520
<v Speaker 1>has less to do with the text and more to

0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:20.800
<v Speaker 1>do with culture. Can you expound more on those thoughts

0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:22.960
<v Speaker 1>for people who weren't talking with.

0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:27.119
<v Speaker 2>You and I who weren't weren't dropping in on the text. Yeah,

0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:29.800
<v Speaker 2>I think, like I just when you look at the

0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:34.000
<v Speaker 2>texts that are there, like, I think there's there are

0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:38.240
<v Speaker 2>really good hermineutics for working around some of the things that.

0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:39.680
<v Speaker 1>What does that mean? Hermonutics?

0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:41.879
<v Speaker 2>So there's some really good Sorry, thank you, I just

0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:43.960
<v Speaker 2>get me out of the Christianese.

0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:47.439
<v Speaker 1>Theology talking to the talking to them. I don't know

0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:48.360
<v Speaker 1>what hermonudics means.

0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.159
<v Speaker 4>I know what you know, and you know when you're

0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:53.840
<v Speaker 4>seminari once you start talking to hermoneutics and educ the text,

0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.200
<v Speaker 4>now you I know you don'et went and did some

0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.240
<v Speaker 4>some extracurricular studying, But I never know what that worn't

0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:00.000
<v Speaker 4>exactly meant.

0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.680
<v Speaker 2>There are some really good tools. There are some really

0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:08.200
<v Speaker 2>good tools and some really good ways to read scripture

0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.359
<v Speaker 2>and underscri understand scripture that get around some of the

0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:15.400
<v Speaker 2>very few texts that addressed homosexuality or maybe is maybe

0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:19.840
<v Speaker 2>six or seven maybe that kind of like get close

0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.000
<v Speaker 2>to it and you know, tap on it. Like, there

0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:23.800
<v Speaker 2>are some really good tools to kind of get around

0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.080
<v Speaker 2>that stuff. So once you work through it with a

0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:29.159
<v Speaker 2>historical lens, you know, looking at the audience that you

0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.200
<v Speaker 2>know that the writers were speaking to thinking about, you know,

0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.200
<v Speaker 2>why Moses was writing, the purpose behind what Moses was

0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.480
<v Speaker 2>writing from the very beginning throughout the Pentituke, which is

0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:39.959
<v Speaker 2>the first five books of the Bible. Right, that's the Pentatuke, right,

0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.560
<v Speaker 2>very go right, So when you look at how Moses

0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.879
<v Speaker 2>is writing, when you look at Pauline like structure and

0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:51.720
<v Speaker 2>his rhetoric throughout his letters that he's in his sorry

0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.920
<v Speaker 2>my gosh, yes, the word the writer, the author, paul

0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:58.120
<v Speaker 2>of the Bible, one of the very first you know,

0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.640
<v Speaker 2>apostles and leader of the early Church. You know, when

0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:04.600
<v Speaker 2>you start to break down some of these verses, it's

0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:06.720
<v Speaker 2>not a lot that sticks there. And I know a

0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:08.919
<v Speaker 2>lot of people want to categorize things as evil or good,

0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:10.439
<v Speaker 2>but it's just not a lot that sticks there. And

0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:14.399
<v Speaker 2>so this issue with the queer community with LGBQTAA really

0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:16.439
<v Speaker 2>has to do more with like what I feel when

0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.040
<v Speaker 2>when it comes to like same sex attraction with men

0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:21.400
<v Speaker 2>is like the ick factor, Like people just don't like it,

0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:23.359
<v Speaker 2>they don't like to see it. But you know, no

0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:25.359
<v Speaker 2>one has a problem seeing two girls kiss. No one

0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:27.280
<v Speaker 2>has a problem with lesbians. Really in that way, and

0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:29.600
<v Speaker 2>so I do think that it comes down to like

0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:31.640
<v Speaker 2>this cultural thing that we just all got to get

0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:34.720
<v Speaker 2>on board. And it's a really good thing to be like, hey,

0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:36.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, I might be doing all this, but I'm

0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:38.439
<v Speaker 2>not that. You know, I might be doing all this,

0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.119
<v Speaker 2>but I'm not that. And it's a good way to

0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.760
<v Speaker 2>like set for Christians to separate themselves and to feel

0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:44.879
<v Speaker 2>good about their salvation because at least they're not the

0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:48.440
<v Speaker 2>worst of the worst. Although Paul lumps in a lot

0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:50.679
<v Speaker 2>of this stuff. And I'm not saying that these things

0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.600
<v Speaker 2>stick and hold weight or even that he's talking about

0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.919
<v Speaker 2>a healthy same sex relationship, but he lumps in, you know,

0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:59.800
<v Speaker 2>if loosely the term homosexuality, that's how it's translated, but

0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:02.399
<v Speaker 2>they're no real word for that back then. But you know,

0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:04.480
<v Speaker 2>he lumps in that term with the liars, with the

0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.040
<v Speaker 2>disobedient to parents, with I mean, so the moral lists

0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:09.879
<v Speaker 2>are like they're, you know, they're stuck together, and so

0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.840
<v Speaker 2>it really, I mean, these moral issues are they're clumped

0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:14.960
<v Speaker 2>together by Paul, and so there really is no way

0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.880
<v Speaker 2>to feel better about who you are except with sharing

0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.479
<v Speaker 2>in the glory and the grace that comes through Christ. Jesus.

0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.199
<v Speaker 2>But people don't like that. They don't want to be equal,

0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.240
<v Speaker 2>they want to feel better, you know, And so there's

0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:29.920
<v Speaker 2>this there's this self righteousness that people try to build by,

0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, establishing this wall of their that and I'm this, yeah,

0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.040
<v Speaker 2>and that's less than and I'm and I'm better, even

0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.320
<v Speaker 2>if we're not outwardly saying it. And so, you know,

0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:42.680
<v Speaker 2>culturally it wasn't a really big thing in the church.

0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:44.439
<v Speaker 2>Into the world made it a big thing, and then

0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:46.120
<v Speaker 2>the church came on board and said, hey, we can

0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:48.359
<v Speaker 2>be better than that, and we can hate them more

0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:51.520
<v Speaker 2>than you. It's coming from the great White Throne and scripture,

0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:54.080
<v Speaker 2>so we can throw down worse on the homosexuals than

0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:56.440
<v Speaker 2>you can now join us. I mean, all these desperate

0:21:56.440 --> 0:22:00.960
<v Speaker 2>attempts for Christian churches to gain audience and to have

0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:03.600
<v Speaker 2>the doors flooded with people and the tide going up

0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:05.520
<v Speaker 2>and the buildings getting bigger. I mean, it was built

0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:09.000
<v Speaker 2>on the backs of, you know, communities like the queer

0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:10.840
<v Speaker 2>community and the black community, where we say, hey, we

0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:12.320
<v Speaker 2>don't like them, we don't want them here. This is

0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:16.840
<v Speaker 2>the pure white space, you know, and same sex hetero space,

0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:21.720
<v Speaker 2>heteronormative space, where you can belong. And then over time,

0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:24.520
<v Speaker 2>the church, you know, starts to grapple with this issue more.

0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:26.800
<v Speaker 2>But it's really not a scriptural, textual thing because you

0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:29.760
<v Speaker 2>can prove anything from the Bible. This thing is deeply cultural,

0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:32.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's it's deeply uh, you know a lot

0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:36.320
<v Speaker 2>of predator prejudice and bias and you know hypocrisy.

0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:39.400
<v Speaker 1>Really, hey, take a quick break here, support the show

0:22:39.440 --> 0:23:02.119
<v Speaker 1>by supporting the sponsors. Your story is so interesting. I

0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:05.359
<v Speaker 1>like where you grew up, right, how you grew up

0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:14.240
<v Speaker 1>troubled youth, arms dealer, euphoria, you know, right, and then

0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:17.200
<v Speaker 1>you found the church and you found community, and then

0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:20.800
<v Speaker 1>it helped you with becoming clean, becoming sober, and you

0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:25.600
<v Speaker 1>hunger for knowledge and hungry, hungry, hungry, hungry, so much knowledge.

0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:29.040
<v Speaker 1>And then you find yourself with so much knowledge that

0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:35.040
<v Speaker 1>you're now clashing with the thing that just saved you

0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:38.840
<v Speaker 1>or pulled you out some years ago. How do you

0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:42.280
<v Speaker 1>reconcile that? Like, although now you're not arms dealing, you're

0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:45.400
<v Speaker 1>just making content and being very funny, but like, how

0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:47.639
<v Speaker 1>do you reconcile? Like? Man, I just was like this

0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:50.960
<v Speaker 1>was so much of my life and now I can't

0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:52.840
<v Speaker 1>see it being as much of my life.

0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:55.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's so the church pushes I mean, you

0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.080
<v Speaker 2>come in a person like me, coming in off the streets,

0:23:58.119 --> 0:23:59.879
<v Speaker 2>coming in the way that I came in. You know,

0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:03.800
<v Speaker 2>they they share with you this radical love about Jesus.

0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:06.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, this radical love from Jesus that comes from heavenetics.

0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:09.679
<v Speaker 2>You know that this like love love, you know, and

0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:12.440
<v Speaker 2>so you kind of me it filled me up with love.

0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:14.600
<v Speaker 2>So it's like, well, I can't help but love. And

0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:16.320
<v Speaker 2>then you go to a seminary and they teach you

0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:18.560
<v Speaker 2>to think critically. At least Tyndale taught me to think

0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:22.240
<v Speaker 2>critically about the text, to think critically, to think historically,

0:24:22.320 --> 0:24:27.360
<v Speaker 2>to think you know, geographically, to study architecture and archaeology,

0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:29.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, the study of rocks and buildings and from

0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:31.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, the ancient world and understand where I how

0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:33.879
<v Speaker 2>this all all this comes through, and you, you know,

0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:36.800
<v Speaker 2>you begin to develop a critical thinking mind that then

0:24:36.920 --> 0:24:39.399
<v Speaker 2>thinks you out of the box that religion tries to

0:24:39.400 --> 0:24:41.480
<v Speaker 2>place you in. And so for me, it's like it

0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:43.320
<v Speaker 2>was always going to end up here, and it's always

0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:45.199
<v Speaker 2>gonna it's it's it's always going to end up there.

0:24:45.240 --> 0:24:47.239
<v Speaker 2>I think for a lot of people in you know,

0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:49.720
<v Speaker 2>this this kind of this kind of time, and this

0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:51.320
<v Speaker 2>is exactly what Jesus talks about. He's like, you know,

0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:53.280
<v Speaker 2>there's a day coming where you're not going to worship

0:24:53.280 --> 0:24:54.919
<v Speaker 2>on this mountain or that it's going to be by

0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:57.160
<v Speaker 2>spirit and by truth. So I think it always kind

0:24:57.160 --> 0:24:59.879
<v Speaker 2>of lands in this space of like navigating our faith,

0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:04.320
<v Speaker 2>our own finding, you know, pockets of community Christian community

0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:07.480
<v Speaker 2>where we can, and trying to survive this world by

0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:10.000
<v Speaker 2>being loving human beings. So it's like you taught me

0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:11.760
<v Speaker 2>how to love church, and then you told me I

0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:14.119
<v Speaker 2>could only love certain people. You told me about like

0:25:14.200 --> 0:25:16.320
<v Speaker 2>a cross that you know makes a way for all.

0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:18.240
<v Speaker 2>But then you said, well, home, but homosexuality's not on

0:25:18.240 --> 0:25:20.560
<v Speaker 2>the cross or and I'm not even saying that homosexuality

0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:22.720
<v Speaker 2>is a cross, but I'm saying, you know, you say

0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:24.240
<v Speaker 2>this is the one thing that doesn't make it to

0:25:24.320 --> 0:25:27.040
<v Speaker 2>the list. But your divorce is okay and your remarriage,

0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:27.679
<v Speaker 2>and we were.

0:25:27.560 --> 0:25:31.040
<v Speaker 1>Talking about that too. It's like, divorce is such an

0:25:31.080 --> 0:25:37.439
<v Speaker 1>interesting topic because specifically Bible says God hates divorce the

0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:41.639
<v Speaker 1>three words in order, and I think culturally, I was

0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:44.199
<v Speaker 1>just talking about this with my wife. When we were

0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:48.600
<v Speaker 1>kids in the church, especially you know, eighties and early nineties,

0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:54.080
<v Speaker 1>divorce was so taboo. I mean it was like scarlet letter.

0:25:54.160 --> 0:25:58.159
<v Speaker 1>I remember hearing from the pulpit, even if he cheats you,

0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:02.119
<v Speaker 1>cheats on you, Yeah, you know, let nothing separate you

0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:07.160
<v Speaker 1>accept death, you know. And then a few years later

0:26:07.359 --> 0:26:11.720
<v Speaker 1>was like, okay, if he's hitting you, maybe maybe maybe

0:26:11.760 --> 0:26:15.639
<v Speaker 1>if he's hitting you, maybe nothing so sad like. But

0:26:15.880 --> 0:26:19.760
<v Speaker 1>early on it was nothing. No divorce. God hates the

0:26:20.000 --> 0:26:25.080
<v Speaker 1>I mean literally, God hates divorce. And I remember pastors

0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:28.880
<v Speaker 1>would not get divorced. People were in very unhappy marriages.

0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:31.359
<v Speaker 1>As a kid, I didn't know this. But as I

0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:33.679
<v Speaker 1>started growing up and I was a teen and stuff,

0:26:33.720 --> 0:26:36.880
<v Speaker 1>you start to realize a little bit more. And then

0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:41.160
<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden, people when I'm sixteen, seventeen, people

0:26:41.280 --> 0:26:44.959
<v Speaker 1>starting to get divorced, and to where now it's like

0:26:45.520 --> 0:26:49.200
<v Speaker 1>it's not even taboo at all. Pastors get divorced, they

0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:55.040
<v Speaker 1>have children from multiple marriages, you know, single pastors with children,

0:26:55.680 --> 0:26:59.040
<v Speaker 1>and it's so not taboo. In the forty years that

0:26:59.119 --> 0:27:03.240
<v Speaker 1>I've lived on Earth, just the topic of divorce has

0:27:03.280 --> 0:27:07.920
<v Speaker 1>gone from completely taboo. You should never God hates it

0:27:08.000 --> 0:27:10.440
<v Speaker 1>to Oh man, people will get divorced. I still serve

0:27:10.520 --> 0:27:14.879
<v Speaker 1>under this pastor that's gotten divorced. So if the culture's

0:27:14.960 --> 0:27:18.439
<v Speaker 1>ideas can change on this in just let's say forty years,

0:27:18.960 --> 0:27:21.760
<v Speaker 1>imagine how much can change over.

0:27:22.800 --> 0:27:27.280
<v Speaker 3>Two thousand years. We're talking about the Bible was written

0:27:27.280 --> 0:27:34.000
<v Speaker 3>over two thousand years across cultures times. You're talking about

0:27:34.000 --> 0:27:37.440
<v Speaker 3>what you can justify the Bible. This same Bible has

0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:43.080
<v Speaker 3>not changed, right in theory, right the words and in

0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:47.360
<v Speaker 3>every translation it's changed. But in theory there's been no

0:27:47.520 --> 0:27:51.160
<v Speaker 3>new words added to the Bible in years. But culturally

0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:54.520
<v Speaker 3>we have decided years ago we are using the Bible

0:27:54.560 --> 0:27:57.159
<v Speaker 3>to justify slavery with no change to the Bible. We

0:27:57.280 --> 0:28:00.239
<v Speaker 3>as a culture decided, you know what, man, slavery is

0:28:00.320 --> 0:28:04.520
<v Speaker 3>like still in the Bible, still in the Bible. But

0:28:04.560 --> 0:28:07.800
<v Speaker 3>we're like, but also, guys, like, this is kind of crazy.

0:28:08.080 --> 0:28:12.680
<v Speaker 3>We not gonna do this getting married to women who

0:28:12.720 --> 0:28:15.879
<v Speaker 3>are not women by the age that we decide is

0:28:15.960 --> 0:28:20.800
<v Speaker 3>content consent based on today, Still in the Bible, you

0:28:20.840 --> 0:28:23.840
<v Speaker 3>could marry a twelve or thirteen year old. In the Bible,

0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:28.960
<v Speaker 3>you could have multiple wives in the Bible, wives Solomon,

0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:34.119
<v Speaker 3>who God calls the most wives, multiple wives, and concubines.

0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:39.560
<v Speaker 3>We still hold his words in such high regard. David

0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:43.920
<v Speaker 3>sent a man, a woman's husband, to the front line

0:28:44.480 --> 0:28:47.600
<v Speaker 3>to be killed so that he could have her, and

0:28:47.640 --> 0:28:50.040
<v Speaker 3>he is called a man after God's own heart.

0:28:50.760 --> 0:28:51.600
<v Speaker 1>In the Bible.

0:28:52.680 --> 0:28:57.440
<v Speaker 3>So I'm like, if all this is in there, why

0:28:57.440 --> 0:29:00.120
<v Speaker 3>are you mad at me for saying I don't think

0:29:00.880 --> 0:29:01.600
<v Speaker 3>gay people.

0:29:01.920 --> 0:29:04.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna treat them crazy. I love them and

0:29:04.520 --> 0:29:06.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't even think this is a sin now. Also,

0:29:06.480 --> 0:29:08.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm just talking about my life, Chantelle, I'm not talking

0:29:08.400 --> 0:29:11.120
<v Speaker 1>about I went to a church with my parents. We

0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:15.880
<v Speaker 1>went to North Carolina and this church, Big Leviticus. No,

0:29:16.200 --> 0:29:20.240
<v Speaker 1>we couldn't eat shrimp or pork. I grew up, my

0:29:20.320 --> 0:29:22.080
<v Speaker 1>family grew up eating shrimp and pork. And my dad

0:29:22.120 --> 0:29:23.800
<v Speaker 1>was like, well, we under this pastor, we eating shrimp

0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:27.160
<v Speaker 1>and pork. So for about nine months of three years,

0:29:27.200 --> 0:29:28.920
<v Speaker 1>we didn't eat shrimp and pork. And then one day

0:29:28.920 --> 0:29:33.320
<v Speaker 1>my dad was like, nine, yo, we having pepperoni pizza, y'all.

0:29:34.480 --> 0:29:36.880
<v Speaker 1>I was like, what about here, we having pepperoni pizza.

0:29:37.560 --> 0:29:41.800
<v Speaker 1>He just was like, nah, man, I ain't with that, No, boy,

0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:45.280
<v Speaker 1>Bible didn't change, pastor didn't change. But my dad was like,

0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:48.160
<v Speaker 1>I want pizza. And I remember that day because I

0:29:48.200 --> 0:29:50.280
<v Speaker 1>was a kid at that time. I didn't challenge anything.

0:29:50.360 --> 0:29:52.920
<v Speaker 1>I had curiosities, so I remember my friends were like,

0:29:52.920 --> 0:29:54.720
<v Speaker 1>why are you picking your pepperoni off? I was like, man,

0:29:54.720 --> 0:29:58.640
<v Speaker 1>it's unclean now, y'all. And I didn't even grow up

0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:00.880
<v Speaker 1>with that. And el paso that was not a thing.

0:30:00.880 --> 0:30:03.720
<v Speaker 1>We had bembering pizza all the time. And this was

0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:05.960
<v Speaker 1>my stepdad. I was like, man, my real dad would

0:30:06.000 --> 0:30:07.480
<v Speaker 1>have let me eat pizza.

0:30:08.400 --> 0:30:09.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm my real dad.

0:30:09.200 --> 0:30:12.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, but it was like in some ways

0:30:12.680 --> 0:30:14.720
<v Speaker 1>you you know. I remember, and I feel like I'm

0:30:14.720 --> 0:30:16.480
<v Speaker 1>dominating the conversation, but I don't want to do that.

0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:19.240
<v Speaker 1>I remember I came to a crossroads in my life

0:30:19.280 --> 0:30:21.120
<v Speaker 1>and it sounds like very similar to what you were

0:30:21.120 --> 0:30:23.440
<v Speaker 1>talking about. When I was a youth pastor, my pastor

0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:24.960
<v Speaker 1>asked me to be a youth pastor because the kids

0:30:25.000 --> 0:30:27.520
<v Speaker 1>really gravitated towards me, the teens, because I was, like you,

0:30:27.600 --> 0:30:31.120
<v Speaker 1>a very funny, charismatic I could. I could make the

0:30:31.160 --> 0:30:35.040
<v Speaker 1>word easy to understand for them, and I could relate

0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:36.479
<v Speaker 1>to them, and I wasn't much older than them. They

0:30:36.480 --> 0:30:39.640
<v Speaker 1>were twelve and I was twenty five twelve to sixteen.

0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:41.760
<v Speaker 1>I had like middle school in high school, so actually

0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:45.120
<v Speaker 1>like twelve to eighteen, but more indexing in high school.

0:30:45.440 --> 0:30:47.440
<v Speaker 1>And I was twenty four twenty five at the time,

0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:49.520
<v Speaker 1>so still listening to music and all that type of stuff.

0:30:50.120 --> 0:30:52.520
<v Speaker 1>And I remember I asked my kids, what do y'all

0:30:52.520 --> 0:30:54.200
<v Speaker 1>want to learn? Because I wanted this Bible study to

0:30:54.200 --> 0:30:56.760
<v Speaker 1>be valuable for you, and they were like, we want

0:30:56.760 --> 0:31:00.600
<v Speaker 1>to learn if tattoos are a sand, and I was like, great, great,

0:31:01.040 --> 0:31:03.320
<v Speaker 1>I can't wait to go to Leviticus and tell you

0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:06.120
<v Speaker 1>exactly why they're a sin. I know they're a sin.

0:31:06.160 --> 0:31:08.560
<v Speaker 1>I've been raised there as sin. They're a sin. Now

0:31:08.600 --> 0:31:10.440
<v Speaker 1>let me tell you why. Pull it up because I

0:31:10.440 --> 0:31:13.120
<v Speaker 1>couldn't remember what chapter it was in, so I typed

0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:18.280
<v Speaker 1>in Google, what where is it the Bible say tattoos

0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:20.720
<v Speaker 1>are sin? And then I typed in after that it

0:31:20.760 --> 0:31:22.280
<v Speaker 1>was like Leviticus and I was like okay. And at

0:31:22.280 --> 0:31:23.960
<v Speaker 1>that time, I was still learning how to be a

0:31:24.000 --> 0:31:25.640
<v Speaker 1>youth pastor, so I used to get a lot of

0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:28.360
<v Speaker 1>help with other messages that were kind of pre like

0:31:28.600 --> 0:31:31.040
<v Speaker 1>I could use like study GUIDs. Yeah, so I typed

0:31:31.040 --> 0:31:33.120
<v Speaker 1>that one and then this I'm never getting white pastor.

0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:34.720
<v Speaker 1>I'd written an article said so you want to teach

0:31:34.720 --> 0:31:37.280
<v Speaker 1>your kids that tattoos are sin and teen Bible study

0:31:37.280 --> 0:31:42.200
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, yes, yes, click. He was like,

0:31:42.240 --> 0:31:44.959
<v Speaker 1>here's the scripture you're looking for, Leviticus nineteen whatever it was.

0:31:45.280 --> 0:31:47.360
<v Speaker 1>And he's like, but before you teach, I want you

0:31:47.440 --> 0:31:50.719
<v Speaker 1>to read this whole chapter. Yes, And I was like okay.

0:31:50.880 --> 0:31:52.560
<v Speaker 1>Felt like he was talking directly to me, because like

0:31:52.600 --> 0:31:53.959
<v Speaker 1>this is how he wrote the article, kind of how

0:31:53.960 --> 0:31:56.800
<v Speaker 1>those recipes they tell you my mother built made cornbread.

0:31:57.040 --> 0:31:59.560
<v Speaker 1>It was like that. He's like, read the scripture before

0:32:00.000 --> 0:32:02.120
<v Speaker 1>and read a few head and then read a few after.

0:32:02.920 --> 0:32:05.080
<v Speaker 1>And I read it and I was like, okay, beards

0:32:05.080 --> 0:32:07.760
<v Speaker 1>and stuff and uncle, you know, fabrics and all that stuff.

0:32:08.040 --> 0:32:11.160
<v Speaker 1>And he was like, so if you have facial hair,

0:32:12.320 --> 0:32:13.960
<v Speaker 1>be careful about what you teach. And I had a

0:32:13.960 --> 0:32:16.520
<v Speaker 1>little mustache, little go tea at the time, and he said,

0:32:16.560 --> 0:32:18.360
<v Speaker 1>and check the tag of your shirt. If it's not

0:32:18.400 --> 0:32:22.320
<v Speaker 1>one cotton or one if it's a polyester blend, then

0:32:22.360 --> 0:32:24.960
<v Speaker 1>be careful how you teach this because you're talking about tattoos,

0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:28.240
<v Speaker 1>and you're not talking about mixed fabric. So his point

0:32:28.360 --> 0:32:34.320
<v Speaker 1>was that chapter in Leviticus was written to Levites who

0:32:34.360 --> 0:32:38.160
<v Speaker 1>weren't considered priests, and these were their rules and ordinances.

0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:41.560
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't meant to be applied to lay people and

0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:45.400
<v Speaker 1>that chantel. Once I read that, I said, oh, nobody

0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:48.600
<v Speaker 1>ever taught me that. And then I started learning more

0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:51.120
<v Speaker 1>and more and more. And I remember my pastor was

0:32:51.120 --> 0:32:53.040
<v Speaker 1>so upset me because we had an agreement that I

0:32:53.080 --> 0:32:55.120
<v Speaker 1>didn't have to preach or teach anything I didn't agree with.

0:32:55.760 --> 0:32:58.720
<v Speaker 1>And I told him, I said, hey, man, I don't

0:32:58.760 --> 0:33:01.400
<v Speaker 1>think and I don't even tattoos at the time. But

0:33:01.440 --> 0:33:04.600
<v Speaker 1>I was like, it doesn't look like we understood tattoos

0:33:04.640 --> 0:33:08.080
<v Speaker 1>the way we were taught. And he was like, okay,

0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:12.240
<v Speaker 1>teach it how you want. And and at that point

0:33:12.320 --> 0:33:15.120
<v Speaker 1>I said and then I just was learning everything. And

0:33:15.160 --> 0:33:17.360
<v Speaker 1>I remember one of my pastors, my pastor before that,

0:33:17.840 --> 0:33:21.280
<v Speaker 1>he forbade our church to use the self checkout line.

0:33:22.400 --> 0:33:25.600
<v Speaker 1>There was a new grocery store they let itself. There

0:33:25.680 --> 0:33:27.880
<v Speaker 1>was a big news in Tacoma. You can use the

0:33:27.920 --> 0:33:30.520
<v Speaker 1>self checkout line. I think our grocery store is called safeway,

0:33:31.080 --> 0:33:33.720
<v Speaker 1>and our bishop got up there and said, nobody in

0:33:33.720 --> 0:33:35.440
<v Speaker 1>this church is going to use the self checkout line.

0:33:35.440 --> 0:33:36.440
<v Speaker 1>That is the mark of the beast.

0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:37.080
<v Speaker 2>Mark of the Beast.

0:33:37.160 --> 0:33:37.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:33:37.360 --> 0:33:39.360
<v Speaker 2>I was like, is that is hands and forehead kind

0:33:39.400 --> 0:33:39.680
<v Speaker 2>of thing?

0:33:39.840 --> 0:33:42.040
<v Speaker 1>Yes. He was like, that's the market the beast. I said, sir,

0:33:43.440 --> 0:33:48.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm not standing in line. I'm so sorry. No, I'll best.

0:33:49.720 --> 0:33:52.640
<v Speaker 3>I said, it's not the mark of the beast, it's

0:33:52.200 --> 0:33:54.080
<v Speaker 3>it's the same scanner.

0:33:54.240 --> 0:33:58.560
<v Speaker 1>They're just letting you scan it. So I disagreed with

0:33:58.600 --> 0:34:01.560
<v Speaker 1>my pastors along the way in my life, and I

0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:04.840
<v Speaker 1>think even people we were talking about this off camera.

0:34:04.920 --> 0:34:08.080
<v Speaker 1>I think people disagree with the Bible all the time.

0:34:08.800 --> 0:34:12.279
<v Speaker 1>The Bible says if Chantel has commits adult or keV does,

0:34:12.800 --> 0:34:16.719
<v Speaker 1>you can stone them.

0:34:16.000 --> 0:34:20.080
<v Speaker 2>To death, to death, which is a terrible, a terrible, terrible,

0:34:20.600 --> 0:34:23.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, and a terrible way to deliver death to somebody,

0:34:23.400 --> 0:34:24.880
<v Speaker 2>To throw rocks.

0:34:24.640 --> 0:34:28.200
<v Speaker 1>At you until one eventually knocks you until you either

0:34:28.200 --> 0:34:31.640
<v Speaker 1>bleed out or blunt force trauma. Even if you have

0:34:32.040 --> 0:34:35.000
<v Speaker 1>committed adultry. I'm not gonna throw rocks at you, and

0:34:35.040 --> 0:34:38.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna when rocks are pelted at you until

0:34:38.880 --> 0:34:42.319
<v Speaker 1>you die so we decide, Okay, man, I'm not gonna

0:34:42.360 --> 0:34:45.120
<v Speaker 1>do that, but that's in the Bible. So I think

0:34:45.160 --> 0:34:47.759
<v Speaker 1>we all are wrestling with I thought was something was

0:34:47.800 --> 0:34:51.520
<v Speaker 1>so interesting that you said, is like refining community with

0:34:51.800 --> 0:34:53.920
<v Speaker 1>people you believe in because you really think about it,

0:34:54.840 --> 0:34:57.960
<v Speaker 1>denominations are really just community for people who agree.

0:34:58.520 --> 0:34:58.960
<v Speaker 2>That's it.

0:34:59.719 --> 0:34:59.920
<v Speaker 1>That's it.

0:35:00.840 --> 0:35:03.600
<v Speaker 2>I honestly think sometimes it's like type A and Type B,

0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Like sometimes it really does come down to like, these

0:35:06.000 --> 0:35:08.719
<v Speaker 2>are just anal retentive people over here, and that's what

0:35:08.840 --> 0:35:11.399
<v Speaker 2>we call the Seventh day Adventist. That's who they are,

0:35:11.520 --> 0:35:14.360
<v Speaker 2>you know. And then we've got the crazy charismatics that

0:35:14.400 --> 0:35:17.040
<v Speaker 2>are Type B and that's the Pentecostal. H then you

0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:18.520
<v Speaker 2>got to mix up both with kojik.

0:35:18.600 --> 0:35:18.799
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:35:19.000 --> 0:35:21.680
<v Speaker 2>It's like it's like it really does come down to personalities.

0:35:21.719 --> 0:35:24.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm almost certain that if you did like this nagram

0:35:24.400 --> 0:35:27.440
<v Speaker 2>or those tests, that it would like clump in one

0:35:27.480 --> 0:35:30.040
<v Speaker 2>particular area for these groups of people.

0:35:30.520 --> 0:35:34.520
<v Speaker 1>I agree because I grew up very Pentecostal. We can't

0:35:34.520 --> 0:35:36.080
<v Speaker 1>do nothing. You can't play We know, you can't go

0:35:36.120 --> 0:35:37.879
<v Speaker 1>to the movies, but you can't watch movies at home.

0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:39.640
<v Speaker 1>So I was like, is it the movie theater sinful

0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:42.480
<v Speaker 1>or the movie sinful, because you can go to the

0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:44.319
<v Speaker 1>theater and watch a ballet, but you can't go to

0:35:44.360 --> 0:35:47.040
<v Speaker 1>the theater and watch a movie. It turns out, Chantell,

0:35:47.080 --> 0:35:49.359
<v Speaker 1>we couldn't go to the theater because my pastor's son

0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:51.960
<v Speaker 1>had sex in the movie theater, and then he called

0:35:51.960 --> 0:35:54.360
<v Speaker 1>the whole thing sinful, and we were like, I'm not

0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:56.760
<v Speaker 1>doing that. I just want to watch.

0:35:56.560 --> 0:35:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Them watch I just want to watch cars.

0:35:59.239 --> 0:36:02.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes, And you think about Baptist people buy and large

0:36:03.200 --> 0:36:06.640
<v Speaker 1>for cliche reasons or whatever. They like, smoke cigarettes and

0:36:06.640 --> 0:36:08.080
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people grew up Baptists are like, yeah,

0:36:08.120 --> 0:36:09.759
<v Speaker 1>we have no problem with that. I grew up that

0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:13.440
<v Speaker 1>was such completely a sin. And then not the nomination

0:36:13.560 --> 0:36:16.520
<v Speaker 1>on y'all, y'all just don't y'all, just let anything happen

0:36:16.640 --> 0:36:20.200
<v Speaker 1>you wearing pants. So it's like, I think, so many

0:36:20.239 --> 0:36:24.880
<v Speaker 1>of these things are so small and minute, some are big,

0:36:25.040 --> 0:36:29.040
<v Speaker 1>some are huge differences and change. But we could argue

0:36:29.080 --> 0:36:34.279
<v Speaker 1>until we're blue in the face, Chantelle, about things that

0:36:35.160 --> 0:36:40.600
<v Speaker 1>don't really matter. And I think we're supposed to bring

0:36:41.280 --> 0:36:44.160
<v Speaker 1>with our love. I think I think you you you

0:36:44.280 --> 0:36:46.799
<v Speaker 1>help you realize something based on what you said. I

0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:51.880
<v Speaker 1>focused most of my life on how Jesus moved and operated,

0:36:52.640 --> 0:36:55.960
<v Speaker 1>not Paul for me. Yeah, Jesus, how what did he

0:36:56.080 --> 0:36:58.719
<v Speaker 1>do when the when the whole world was going this way?

0:36:59.000 --> 0:37:01.439
<v Speaker 1>He often went the other way? When when the law

0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:04.080
<v Speaker 1>said you can do this, he often didn't do it

0:37:04.120 --> 0:37:09.919
<v Speaker 1>exactly as the law did. And I think you said

0:37:09.920 --> 0:37:11.440
<v Speaker 1>something that I agree with the most because I know

0:37:11.480 --> 0:37:14.560
<v Speaker 1>it was true for me. I wanted to feel better

0:37:14.600 --> 0:37:19.359
<v Speaker 1>than people. I didn't necessarily want to be better. I

0:37:19.400 --> 0:37:21.000
<v Speaker 1>just needed you to be worse so.

0:37:20.920 --> 0:37:22.600
<v Speaker 2>That I feel feel better.

0:37:22.680 --> 0:37:28.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because I'm not gonna.

0:37:27.920 --> 0:37:29.400
<v Speaker 2>And that would be your speech when you get to

0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:32.160
<v Speaker 2>the throne, is but god, I didn't do this, you know.

0:37:33.080 --> 0:37:35.879
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't this like you know, I wasn't bent over,

0:37:36.120 --> 0:37:38.799
<v Speaker 2>you know, bending anyone over, you know, that would be

0:37:39.120 --> 0:37:40.680
<v Speaker 2>that would be the argument you get to the throne.

0:37:40.680 --> 0:37:42.360
<v Speaker 2>But that, you know, and it's so sad. It's like

0:37:42.400 --> 0:37:44.360
<v Speaker 2>it's it's funny and I'm like it's but it's like

0:37:44.360 --> 0:37:46.759
<v Speaker 2>it's it's and I'm saying it like we want to

0:37:46.760 --> 0:37:48.520
<v Speaker 2>feel better, you know, And that's all we put the

0:37:48.520 --> 0:37:50.560
<v Speaker 2>homosexuals where we put them, or peat people with the

0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:53.160
<v Speaker 2>same sex orientation where we put them. But it's really

0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:56.280
<v Speaker 2>it's really a response of fear, like we're just afraid.

0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:58.000
<v Speaker 2>And that's what I'm saying, Like you take hell out

0:37:58.040 --> 0:38:00.160
<v Speaker 2>of the equation, you know, because in order for hell

0:38:00.239 --> 0:38:02.000
<v Speaker 2>to exist, God would have to sustain it. And that's

0:38:02.000 --> 0:38:04.160
<v Speaker 2>an issue with the Odyssey right there. That's that basically

0:38:04.239 --> 0:38:05.880
<v Speaker 2>comes down to the character of God. Is he Is

0:38:05.920 --> 0:38:08.719
<v Speaker 2>he evil enough to sustain a living, burning hell for

0:38:08.760 --> 0:38:11.040
<v Speaker 2>all of eternity for those you know, So when you

0:38:11.320 --> 0:38:13.160
<v Speaker 2>if we just took that away for a second and

0:38:13.239 --> 0:38:15.239
<v Speaker 2>just said no, good God in his right mind would

0:38:15.320 --> 0:38:18.160
<v Speaker 2>sustain some of that, we just like it just frees

0:38:18.200 --> 0:38:20.320
<v Speaker 2>a lot of us up to give freedom to everybody

0:38:20.320 --> 0:38:22.640
<v Speaker 2>else to just be who they are. And I'm not

0:38:22.719 --> 0:38:25.120
<v Speaker 2>saying that anything and everything goes. It's not like that.

0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:27.280
<v Speaker 2>But God has called us to live a life of love,

0:38:27.480 --> 0:38:29.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, and what does that look like? And I

0:38:29.600 --> 0:38:31.880
<v Speaker 2>loved what you said, you said, you know, if I

0:38:31.920 --> 0:38:34.360
<v Speaker 2>get before God and his biggest issue with me is

0:38:34.360 --> 0:38:38.239
<v Speaker 2>that I loved gay people. You know, it might just

0:38:38.320 --> 0:38:40.399
<v Speaker 2>be an idol that you're standing in front. It might

0:38:40.400 --> 0:38:43.000
<v Speaker 2>be something else, Because that's that's a crazy thing to

0:38:43.200 --> 0:38:46.439
<v Speaker 2>to you know, to not be able to enter heaven over.

0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:47.480
<v Speaker 1>You know what I'm saying.

0:38:47.640 --> 0:38:51.360
<v Speaker 2>So all of this stuff. You know, the Bible hasn't changed,

0:38:51.440 --> 0:38:54.960
<v Speaker 2>but it documents a God who changes a lot. And

0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:58.560
<v Speaker 2>the reason why he changes is because of his people.

0:38:58.600 --> 0:39:01.200
<v Speaker 1>You know, he doesn't God doesn't change at all. What

0:39:01.320 --> 0:39:03.839
<v Speaker 1>you mean God changes a lot? Right? Right?

0:39:03.960 --> 0:39:06.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean there's verses that he never changes.

0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:06.359
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:39:06.400 --> 0:39:09.640
<v Speaker 2>It's a very Greek idea that in order for if

0:39:09.640 --> 0:39:11.880
<v Speaker 2>something changes, that means it's not complete, or it's not

0:39:12.400 --> 0:39:14.480
<v Speaker 2>like holy good, or it has to improve, and that

0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:16.759
<v Speaker 2>means that God wasn't what he's going to be. It's like, no,

0:39:16.840 --> 0:39:19.359
<v Speaker 2>God is good, he's holy, he's righteous, he's all of that.

0:39:19.400 --> 0:39:22.319
<v Speaker 2>He's the unmoved mover and all of that. He's he's good,

0:39:22.480 --> 0:39:24.879
<v Speaker 2>he is love. Like I'm not taking anything away from

0:39:24.920 --> 0:39:26.840
<v Speaker 2>but I am saying that you look at the Bible,

0:39:26.840 --> 0:39:29.000
<v Speaker 2>which is written by sixty six different well a little

0:39:29.040 --> 0:39:31.880
<v Speaker 2>less than sixties, but a lot of authors, sixty six books,

0:39:31.880 --> 0:39:33.920
<v Speaker 2>a lot of authors, a lot of reactions, and you

0:39:34.000 --> 0:39:36.600
<v Speaker 2>get a God that is changing. Oh, don't go into

0:39:36.640 --> 0:39:38.919
<v Speaker 2>the town now, he's going into the town. You know, Oh,

0:39:38.920 --> 0:39:42.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna wipe out ninevah, No, we're ninavah, We're good now.

0:39:42.120 --> 0:39:43.840
<v Speaker 2>You know what I'm saying, like, oh, like is the

0:39:44.080 --> 0:39:47.400
<v Speaker 2>tons of passages that deal with God changing his mind

0:39:47.480 --> 0:39:49.360
<v Speaker 2>and why does he do that for the sake of

0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:51.839
<v Speaker 2>his people? You know. So it's like it makes sense that,

0:39:52.239 --> 0:39:54.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, at one point, your Dad's like, we're not

0:39:54.480 --> 0:39:56.120
<v Speaker 2>you're your stepdad, not your real dab.

0:39:56.200 --> 0:40:00.080
<v Speaker 1>You set dad is He's good now good Now I

0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:02.160
<v Speaker 1>have to go back to pizza. He was back by

0:40:02.239 --> 0:40:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Dad at that time, those nine months. I was unsure

0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:07.040
<v Speaker 1>because I really love pepperoni. Pizza is a big part

0:40:07.040 --> 0:40:09.439
<v Speaker 1>of my life. Nut. But now then he went. Once

0:40:09.480 --> 0:40:11.440
<v Speaker 1>he came off with that, he'd been good ever since.

0:40:11.719 --> 0:40:13.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So it makes sense that at one point, like

0:40:13.760 --> 0:40:15.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, we're creating the image of God. It makes

0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:16.919
<v Speaker 2>sense that at one point he's like, no, no, because

0:40:16.920 --> 0:40:18.359
<v Speaker 2>we're under this pastor and then all of a sudden

0:40:18.400 --> 0:40:20.279
<v Speaker 2>it's like this is just not who we are, you know,

0:40:20.360 --> 0:40:22.799
<v Speaker 2>And that's okay, and people are, but people are very

0:40:22.840 --> 0:40:25.800
<v Speaker 2>uncomfortable with the flexibility of God. You know. It's scary

0:40:25.880 --> 0:40:28.400
<v Speaker 2>to think that our God is going to shift and

0:40:28.400 --> 0:40:30.319
<v Speaker 2>meet us where we are. But that that's the bi

0:40:30.480 --> 0:40:33.360
<v Speaker 2>that is the the God of the Bible is someone

0:40:33.400 --> 0:40:37.560
<v Speaker 2>that is changing and changes it on behalf of humanity,

0:40:37.640 --> 0:40:40.439
<v Speaker 2>you know. So he warns and then he gives in.

0:40:40.560 --> 0:40:42.960
<v Speaker 2>And it's it's like if you really study scripture closely,

0:40:43.040 --> 0:40:45.319
<v Speaker 2>like this Lamb is changing. And so you know when

0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:47.360
<v Speaker 2>you when you break everything down, you're left with the

0:40:47.480 --> 0:40:49.000
<v Speaker 2>letters and read. You know what I mean? For me,

0:40:49.160 --> 0:40:51.440
<v Speaker 2>as someone who is deconstructing my faith, I had to

0:40:51.480 --> 0:40:54.040
<v Speaker 2>go back and be like, okay, this this book was

0:40:54.120 --> 0:40:57.760
<v Speaker 2>changed so much. Okay, Pauline epistles, there's Pauline, there's Paul's opinion,

0:40:58.080 --> 0:41:00.680
<v Speaker 2>and then he's speaking authority, authoritai lead the church.

0:41:00.719 --> 0:41:00.880
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:41:00.920 --> 0:41:03.320
<v Speaker 2>So there's all these things and I'm like what stands?

0:41:03.360 --> 0:41:05.120
<v Speaker 2>What remains? And for me, I just go back to

0:41:05.120 --> 0:41:07.080
<v Speaker 2>the letters and read. And when I think about the

0:41:07.160 --> 0:41:09.480
<v Speaker 2>letters in Red, like I was telling you yesterday, it

0:41:09.520 --> 0:41:13.560
<v Speaker 2>was just like there's zero on this issue of homosexuality.

0:41:13.600 --> 0:41:15.719
<v Speaker 2>Like Christ does not speak about it at all. But

0:41:15.800 --> 0:41:18.279
<v Speaker 2>he does speak about divorce, and he does speak about

0:41:18.360 --> 0:41:20.279
<v Speaker 2>lust and the heart, and he does speak about like

0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:23.040
<v Speaker 2>what sounds like masturbation. At some point in the tax Yo,

0:41:23.239 --> 0:41:25.360
<v Speaker 2>it didn't speak about lying and being a light on

0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:27.440
<v Speaker 2>the hill and the things that matter is what he

0:41:27.480 --> 0:41:31.080
<v Speaker 2>actually discusses. And I know our God saw this coming.

0:41:31.160 --> 0:41:32.920
<v Speaker 2>I know that they were dealing with it back then,

0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:35.920
<v Speaker 2>and yet there's no commentary on it. So, you know,

0:41:36.000 --> 0:41:38.360
<v Speaker 2>I see people out there on social media being like

0:41:38.440 --> 0:41:42.120
<v Speaker 2>Kevin's confusing evil with good and he does not understanding

0:41:42.160 --> 0:41:43.640
<v Speaker 2>why the Christians are man, and it's.

0:41:43.480 --> 0:41:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Like, I don't understand exactly why they're I just I'm

0:41:48.719 --> 0:41:51.600
<v Speaker 1>that part. I'm clear, And the crazy thing is said,

0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:55.759
<v Speaker 1>tell my grandma and my dad usually are opposite of

0:41:55.800 --> 0:41:59.080
<v Speaker 1>me on this. This time they were like, you know what, Sun,

0:41:59.160 --> 0:42:05.920
<v Speaker 1>You're right. And I was come to this because it.

0:42:05.840 --> 0:42:08.719
<v Speaker 2>Feels like because it feels like most people want to

0:42:08.800 --> 0:42:11.040
<v Speaker 2>let it go at this point, like most people want

0:42:11.040 --> 0:42:12.960
<v Speaker 2>to just be able to be in relationship with the

0:42:12.960 --> 0:42:15.879
<v Speaker 2>people they like and love, you know, and they they

0:42:15.920 --> 0:42:18.200
<v Speaker 2>want permission to be let off of the hook that

0:42:18.239 --> 0:42:21.040
<v Speaker 2>these you know, these five or six Bible versus hold

0:42:21.120 --> 0:42:23.839
<v Speaker 2>them to. And so it is the work of good

0:42:23.920 --> 0:42:26.799
<v Speaker 2>leadership to to sit with the text and to help

0:42:26.800 --> 0:42:30.400
<v Speaker 2>people understand how to read scripture well. And you know,

0:42:30.440 --> 0:42:32.279
<v Speaker 2>some people will hear this podcast and they'll say, oh

0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:34.600
<v Speaker 2>my gosh, this is like, this is this is the

0:42:34.640 --> 0:42:36.760
<v Speaker 2>worst thing ever. Like they're saying that this is okay,

0:42:36.800 --> 0:42:38.680
<v Speaker 2>that we shouldn't be trusting the Bible. I'm not saying that.

0:42:38.680 --> 0:42:40.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm just saying you have to understand what the Bible

0:42:41.000 --> 0:42:43.000
<v Speaker 2>is and how to read it, understand it in its

0:42:43.120 --> 0:42:46.120
<v Speaker 2>right context. Like you you went back in Leviticus and

0:42:46.200 --> 0:42:48.640
<v Speaker 2>you realize that, hey, tattoos really have to do with

0:42:48.680 --> 0:42:51.759
<v Speaker 2>the idea of like something that was you know, at

0:42:51.760 --> 0:42:54.640
<v Speaker 2>that time, Cultic priests were cutting themselves for the dead

0:42:54.719 --> 0:42:57.080
<v Speaker 2>and they were doing you know, and so there they

0:42:57.080 --> 0:42:59.960
<v Speaker 2>were the livitical order. The Levites were asked to not

0:43:00.160 --> 0:43:01.880
<v Speaker 2>do that, and so it was dealing with something very

0:43:01.920 --> 0:43:05.120
<v Speaker 2>different the priesthood, and not necessarily the little fish that

0:43:05.160 --> 0:43:08.000
<v Speaker 2>you see on someone's ankle or you know, whatever are

0:43:08.040 --> 0:43:10.640
<v Speaker 2>someone's neck. You know, it's it's just very different. And

0:43:10.680 --> 0:43:12.960
<v Speaker 2>so when you go back and you understand what you're

0:43:13.000 --> 0:43:15.280
<v Speaker 2>reading and how to read it, I think it changes,

0:43:15.640 --> 0:43:18.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, how you can live then and how you

0:43:18.560 --> 0:43:19.520
<v Speaker 2>can receive people.

0:43:20.080 --> 0:43:22.560
<v Speaker 1>Hey, guys, taking a quick commercial break. We'll be right back.

0:43:39.560 --> 0:43:42.799
<v Speaker 1>So I we went forty three minutes, and I didn't

0:43:42.840 --> 0:43:46.080
<v Speaker 1>even talk about you as a content creator at all. Yes, no,

0:43:46.400 --> 0:43:49.520
<v Speaker 1>this is I could go two hours on this. It's

0:43:49.520 --> 0:43:51.759
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of theological Thursdays, which is the thing

0:43:51.760 --> 0:43:53.560
<v Speaker 1>I used to do. But then the gay people and

0:43:53.560 --> 0:43:55.000
<v Speaker 1>the Christians got mad at me. I was just like,

0:43:55.040 --> 0:43:56.439
<v Speaker 1>I can't take this. I'm not ready for this. Save

0:43:56.480 --> 0:43:58.680
<v Speaker 1>my life. Shut it down. But this is like a

0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:02.120
<v Speaker 1>little one episode. But I do want to talk about

0:44:02.160 --> 0:44:07.040
<v Speaker 1>you as a content creator. Uh when did you? How

0:44:07.120 --> 0:44:11.640
<v Speaker 1>did you arrive? There was this always a thing.

0:44:12.600 --> 0:44:14.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean I went to like, I've always been creative,

0:44:15.000 --> 0:44:17.879
<v Speaker 2>So I was before I became, before I got into

0:44:17.960 --> 0:44:20.080
<v Speaker 2>the before, while I was in the church and you know,

0:44:20.120 --> 0:44:23.479
<v Speaker 2>wrapping up high school, I was a draw a drawer

0:44:23.520 --> 0:44:25.480
<v Speaker 2>and a painter. And so my first year of college

0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:27.360
<v Speaker 2>was actually out on Tario College of Art and Design.

0:44:27.400 --> 0:44:30.080
<v Speaker 2>So I went for drawing and painting. And after that year,

0:44:30.080 --> 0:44:32.440
<v Speaker 2>I got tired of seeing like white men's penises all

0:44:32.480 --> 0:44:34.440
<v Speaker 2>the time, and I was like, I don't want to

0:44:34.520 --> 0:44:36.799
<v Speaker 2>draw that anymore. And I was falling in love with

0:44:36.880 --> 0:44:39.120
<v Speaker 2>Jesus and I was like, take me to the throne,

0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:41.880
<v Speaker 2>like take me the grades. I'm living in sin drawing, drawing,

0:44:42.280 --> 0:44:45.239
<v Speaker 2>penises over here and titties that aren't mine, and like,

0:44:45.480 --> 0:44:49.520
<v Speaker 2>good heavens the wrinkles, Lord help me. So I go

0:44:49.600 --> 0:44:52.640
<v Speaker 2>into ministry. But I've always been very creative, like and

0:44:53.040 --> 0:44:55.520
<v Speaker 2>like I was. I was a praise and worship dancer

0:44:55.520 --> 0:44:56.719
<v Speaker 2>in the church for a little while.

0:44:56.920 --> 0:44:58.200
<v Speaker 1>You were here, I was.

0:44:58.680 --> 0:45:00.799
<v Speaker 2>I was here, I was side did the sign and

0:45:00.840 --> 0:45:02.360
<v Speaker 2>I did it. Oh, I had to get that. I

0:45:02.400 --> 0:45:04.360
<v Speaker 2>was listen. I was dragging my flesh down to the

0:45:04.400 --> 0:45:07.319
<v Speaker 2>altar and trying to strip myself with sin. So I

0:45:07.400 --> 0:45:10.920
<v Speaker 2>was like, you know, I was always very creative. And

0:45:11.280 --> 0:45:13.840
<v Speaker 2>then after I think it was the pandemic. Was my

0:45:14.040 --> 0:45:18.320
<v Speaker 2>final year in ministry. I was serving at a multi

0:45:19.080 --> 0:45:24.520
<v Speaker 2>multi ethnic, multi generational megachurch in Los Angeles, and it

0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:27.200
<v Speaker 2>was one of my favorite places to serve. But at

0:45:27.239 --> 0:45:30.160
<v Speaker 2>the end of that year, my pastor at the time,

0:45:30.239 --> 0:45:31.600
<v Speaker 2>he said to me, he's like, you know, there are

0:45:32.320 --> 0:45:35.160
<v Speaker 2>He's like, there are there are generals, and then there

0:45:35.160 --> 0:45:37.120
<v Speaker 2>are soldiers. He goes, and I just feel like, You're

0:45:37.120 --> 0:45:39.239
<v Speaker 2>a general, not a soldier. And I was like, I

0:45:39.239 --> 0:45:40.920
<v Speaker 2>didn't understand. He's like, and I'm just He's like, I'm

0:45:40.920 --> 0:45:43.239
<v Speaker 2>telling you this because I want you to be here,

0:45:43.280 --> 0:45:45.560
<v Speaker 2>he's like, and you're doing a great job here. He's like,

0:45:45.560 --> 0:45:47.400
<v Speaker 2>but I feel like God is calling you to be

0:45:47.440 --> 0:45:49.480
<v Speaker 2>a general, not just a soldier. He's like, and I

0:45:49.480 --> 0:45:51.440
<v Speaker 2>don't know what that looks like for you. He's like,

0:45:51.480 --> 0:45:54.040
<v Speaker 2>but if but I just He's like, I'm not saying anything,

0:45:54.080 --> 0:45:55.799
<v Speaker 2>but that's what what God is telling me to tell you.

0:45:56.120 --> 0:45:59.000
<v Speaker 2>And I think after some prayer, I came to the

0:45:59.800 --> 0:46:02.920
<v Speaker 2>just conclusion like this had been a long time coming,

0:46:03.000 --> 0:46:06.360
<v Speaker 2>and this this church was like like my favorite space

0:46:06.360 --> 0:46:07.960
<v Speaker 2>out of all the spaces I had served in, but

0:46:08.040 --> 0:46:11.840
<v Speaker 2>still very exclusive, you know, it's still very rigid on

0:46:12.200 --> 0:46:15.640
<v Speaker 2>the in some of their thinking. And so it was

0:46:15.680 --> 0:46:17.600
<v Speaker 2>at the end of this year that like God had

0:46:17.680 --> 0:46:22.279
<v Speaker 2>just literally like spoke to me, like very clearly, and

0:46:22.320 --> 0:46:25.040
<v Speaker 2>it was like, I'm asking you to leave this place

0:46:25.120 --> 0:46:28.279
<v Speaker 2>of ministry. I was like, well, I love ministrying, like

0:46:28.320 --> 0:46:29.799
<v Speaker 2>you call me to the ministry and like I've gone

0:46:29.800 --> 0:46:32.719
<v Speaker 2>through all this, like pushing past the women's barriers and

0:46:32.719 --> 0:46:35.640
<v Speaker 2>breaking ceilings and leave like I'm here. Like I'm here,

0:46:35.719 --> 0:46:38.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm here, you know. And God was like, and you know,

0:46:38.440 --> 0:46:40.439
<v Speaker 2>and this is it. This is the end of this ride.

0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:41.880
<v Speaker 2>And so I was like, but this is the end

0:46:41.920 --> 0:46:43.239
<v Speaker 2>of ministry. And God was like, this is not the

0:46:43.320 --> 0:46:45.560
<v Speaker 2>end of ministry, but this is the end of your

0:46:45.640 --> 0:46:48.839
<v Speaker 2>you know, your pastoral career right now. And so I

0:46:49.040 --> 0:46:53.280
<v Speaker 2>was literally the day I left. The day I left,

0:46:53.320 --> 0:46:55.120
<v Speaker 2>I was sitting in my apartment thinking like what am

0:46:55.160 --> 0:46:57.120
<v Speaker 2>I going to use my MDV for? What am I

0:46:57.160 --> 0:46:59.799
<v Speaker 2>going to use the factory for? What? I could not

0:47:00.000 --> 0:47:01.680
<v Speaker 2>I could not get a job anywhere. I was like,

0:47:01.760 --> 0:47:05.640
<v Speaker 2>what am I going to do? And my husband, my friend,

0:47:05.719 --> 0:47:08.600
<v Speaker 2>my friend who's now my husband, who is my friend

0:47:08.640 --> 0:47:10.920
<v Speaker 2>at that time, was like, you know, you're so creative,

0:47:10.920 --> 0:47:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Like you should just do like some of these videos

0:47:13.000 --> 0:47:15.439
<v Speaker 2>on TikTok. And I was like, no, I'm not getting

0:47:15.480 --> 0:47:18.000
<v Speaker 2>on TikTok. Are you crazy? No? And he's like, you

0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:19.640
<v Speaker 2>should get on TikTok and I was like, I'm not.

0:47:19.719 --> 0:47:22.000
<v Speaker 2>I had maybe like four thousand followers on Instagram at

0:47:22.040 --> 0:47:23.880
<v Speaker 2>the time, and so he's like, yeah, I just do

0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:25.799
<v Speaker 2>a video on TikTok. So I was like, what am

0:47:25.840 --> 0:47:27.160
<v Speaker 2>I going to do? A video about? What do I

0:47:27.160 --> 0:47:28.840
<v Speaker 2>have to work with? And it was theology? So I

0:47:28.880 --> 0:47:31.840
<v Speaker 2>wrote this video, this sketch about you know, because that

0:47:31.960 --> 0:47:34.440
<v Speaker 2>was the time when there were the protests were happening.

0:47:34.600 --> 0:47:37.520
<v Speaker 2>George Floyd had just happened, and the world was like

0:47:37.600 --> 0:47:39.640
<v Speaker 2>on fire everything with Trump. It was just it was

0:47:39.719 --> 0:47:42.480
<v Speaker 2>a crazy time and we were on lockdown, we were

0:47:42.480 --> 0:47:45.319
<v Speaker 2>in pandemic. It was it was twenty twenty. And so

0:47:45.680 --> 0:47:47.920
<v Speaker 2>I wrote this sketch about like mean like kind of

0:47:48.000 --> 0:47:50.600
<v Speaker 2>meanwhile and heaven, like I can't remember what it was.

0:47:50.640 --> 0:47:53.600
<v Speaker 2>It was like Gabriel get the horses, I think it was,

0:47:53.680 --> 0:47:55.759
<v Speaker 2>and with like God, the Holy Spirit in Christ and

0:47:55.920 --> 0:47:58.359
<v Speaker 2>like just God's response to everything that's happening and how

0:47:58.360 --> 0:47:59.840
<v Speaker 2>God wanted to come down here and lay hands on

0:47:59.880 --> 0:48:02.560
<v Speaker 2>the people, right. And I just I just made up

0:48:02.560 --> 0:48:05.120
<v Speaker 2>a video based on that, based on theology. That's all

0:48:05.120 --> 0:48:06.960
<v Speaker 2>I had. And I went to bed after I post that.

0:48:07.080 --> 0:48:08.960
<v Speaker 2>I woke up to like ninety thousand followers the next

0:48:09.040 --> 0:48:12.080
<v Speaker 2>day in the host Oh my god, god, what is this?

0:48:12.360 --> 0:48:15.240
<v Speaker 2>Like Jason was like sharey, He's like your videos everyone,

0:48:15.360 --> 0:48:17.440
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm like, oh my god, I have my phone.

0:48:17.480 --> 0:48:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Had called after call from my senior pastor, Like I

0:48:20.040 --> 0:48:22.319
<v Speaker 2>had so much like people coming in and calling me

0:48:22.400 --> 0:48:27.600
<v Speaker 2>like no, you you've seen it, you've seen it. Yeah,

0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:29.120
<v Speaker 2>I think you commented on it.

0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:31.480
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, that makes sense about how I

0:48:31.560 --> 0:48:32.000
<v Speaker 1>found you.

0:48:32.080 --> 0:48:34.239
<v Speaker 2>Then yes, And so then I did a lot of

0:48:34.320 --> 0:48:37.880
<v Speaker 2>videos about God and you know, spirituality, and people just

0:48:38.000 --> 0:48:40.040
<v Speaker 2>loved it. You know. I took me to about three

0:48:40.120 --> 0:48:42.319
<v Speaker 2>hundred thousand followers, and then I transitioned a little bit

0:48:42.360 --> 0:48:44.960
<v Speaker 2>more to lifestyle and like relatability because I didn't want

0:48:45.000 --> 0:48:47.680
<v Speaker 2>to just be boxed into Christianity, and of course the

0:48:47.680 --> 0:48:49.560
<v Speaker 2>people didn't like that, And all of a sudden became

0:48:49.600 --> 0:48:51.960
<v Speaker 2>a sinner again because I was like, you know, posting

0:48:52.120 --> 0:48:56.239
<v Speaker 2>content about hair or something else. And so now I

0:48:56.280 --> 0:48:59.160
<v Speaker 2>think as a content creator, it's a really interesting time

0:48:59.239 --> 0:49:02.320
<v Speaker 2>for me because I'm coming out of my seasonal depression.

0:49:02.400 --> 0:49:05.799
<v Speaker 2>Every winter I go into just the dark space, and

0:49:05.880 --> 0:49:08.520
<v Speaker 2>now I'm just in the space of like trying to

0:49:08.560 --> 0:49:11.520
<v Speaker 2>evolve again as a creator. Like it's just that's the

0:49:11.560 --> 0:49:13.799
<v Speaker 2>way of life. It's like you never just and you

0:49:13.920 --> 0:49:15.640
<v Speaker 2>never arrive anywhere, you know.

0:49:16.040 --> 0:49:21.239
<v Speaker 3>Neverve It's just like seasons in the the way the

0:49:21.280 --> 0:49:24.280
<v Speaker 3>wind blows in the spring, the summer and the fall

0:49:24.360 --> 0:49:24.880
<v Speaker 3>and winter.

0:49:25.600 --> 0:49:27.560
<v Speaker 1>And I think that brings us full circle back to

0:49:27.600 --> 0:49:30.480
<v Speaker 1>what we were talking about. People were, you know, I

0:49:30.520 --> 0:49:33.440
<v Speaker 1>was getting killed and Kevin how can you think this.

0:49:33.880 --> 0:49:37.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm just one person trying to make sense of life. Yeah,

0:49:38.040 --> 0:49:40.840
<v Speaker 1>I still love God, I still love his people. I

0:49:40.880 --> 0:49:44.880
<v Speaker 1>love people who don't profresh to even be Christians. But

0:49:44.920 --> 0:49:47.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm also trying to make my way through life as

0:49:47.880 --> 0:49:51.239
<v Speaker 1>as I see it. And I've just never been the

0:49:51.320 --> 0:49:53.360
<v Speaker 1>type to be like, this is the world that is

0:49:53.400 --> 0:49:57.439
<v Speaker 1>explained to you, you accept it without questioning. I've never

0:49:57.480 --> 0:50:00.319
<v Speaker 1>been that person when it comes to anything, and I you,

0:50:00.600 --> 0:50:03.279
<v Speaker 1>I think you shouldn't be that person because if you're

0:50:03.320 --> 0:50:06.840
<v Speaker 1>never gonna question anything, people can get away with anything.

0:50:07.000 --> 0:50:09.320
<v Speaker 1>If you're just not, like, hey man, that just ain't cool.

0:50:09.880 --> 0:50:15.840
<v Speaker 1>And I also don't fully understand the Bible or God,

0:50:16.520 --> 0:50:18.279
<v Speaker 1>and I think that's okay. I think God is too

0:50:18.280 --> 0:50:22.000
<v Speaker 1>big for us to even fully understand him anyway. And

0:50:22.040 --> 0:50:24.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't understand how airplanes work either. We guess what

0:50:24.680 --> 0:50:27.720
<v Speaker 1>shall tell tomorrow. I'm getting on a plane and I.

0:50:27.560 --> 0:50:28.560
<v Speaker 3>Hope it lands.

0:50:28.840 --> 0:50:32.200
<v Speaker 2>I hope, Oh my gosh. The way that I've been

0:50:32.280 --> 0:50:34.480
<v Speaker 2>driving across this country because I don't want to get

0:50:34.480 --> 0:50:36.759
<v Speaker 2>on a plane, Like when I tell you, I drove

0:50:36.840 --> 0:50:39.200
<v Speaker 2>to Atlanta, I drove to New York. I was gonna

0:50:39.239 --> 0:50:41.920
<v Speaker 2>drive to California, and I was like, you know what,

0:50:42.000 --> 0:50:45.120
<v Speaker 2>I rebuked the spirit of fear. If anything is real,

0:50:45.160 --> 0:50:47.239
<v Speaker 2>it's the spirit of fear. And I was like, I'm

0:50:47.280 --> 0:50:50.440
<v Speaker 2>out of agreement with it. I rebuke it, and I'm

0:50:50.480 --> 0:50:53.520
<v Speaker 2>getting on that plane. And man, what was it the

0:50:53.520 --> 0:50:56.759
<v Speaker 2>other Just just yesterday a little mini plane crashed.

0:50:56.400 --> 0:50:59.640
<v Speaker 1>Into somewhere in there's a mini plane crashing every day.

0:50:59.680 --> 0:51:01.759
<v Speaker 1>If you're plane is small enough, it won't even make

0:51:01.800 --> 0:51:04.719
<v Speaker 1>the news. If it's a single engine Cessna level plane.

0:51:05.239 --> 0:51:08.000
<v Speaker 1>They only really make the news if it's where you live,

0:51:08.280 --> 0:51:11.400
<v Speaker 1>or if it's a major airline jet but them single

0:51:11.400 --> 0:51:15.840
<v Speaker 1>engine planes, or if somebody famous dies, but small planes

0:51:16.120 --> 0:51:19.760
<v Speaker 1>crashing that that happens quite often.

0:51:20.160 --> 0:51:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, Well you are gonna travel safe. You

0:51:23.520 --> 0:51:25.680
<v Speaker 2>are get on that plane, and you're gonna.

0:51:25.480 --> 0:51:27.640
<v Speaker 1>Let be my last podcast. And to be like Dan

0:51:27.840 --> 0:51:29.680
<v Speaker 1>Kenus he went out, You're.

0:51:29.560 --> 0:51:33.440
<v Speaker 2>Talking about the gays, and they're like, he's for sure cook,

0:51:33.600 --> 0:51:35.600
<v Speaker 2>he's cooked now, He's cooked.

0:51:35.320 --> 0:51:37.359
<v Speaker 3>Now, And you know what sweter about that? And I'm

0:51:37.360 --> 0:51:40.239
<v Speaker 3>gonna let you go after this. The funny thing is,

0:51:40.520 --> 0:51:41.000
<v Speaker 3>even if.

0:51:40.920 --> 0:51:43.440
<v Speaker 2>I am going to hell, you're not going to hell.

0:51:43.600 --> 0:51:46.960
<v Speaker 1>Even if I am going to hell, nobody would even

0:51:47.040 --> 0:51:50.040
<v Speaker 1>know because our bodies are gonna be so changed. You're

0:51:50.040 --> 0:51:52.799
<v Speaker 1>not gonna be like I know, Kemo stage is make it.

0:51:53.080 --> 0:51:54.920
<v Speaker 1>If you're in heaven, you're gonna be focused on the

0:51:54.920 --> 0:51:56.400
<v Speaker 1>things of heaven. And if you in Hell with me,

0:51:56.719 --> 0:52:00.600
<v Speaker 1>then clearly we was both wrong about something. Okay, before

0:52:00.600 --> 0:52:02.600
<v Speaker 1>we go, please tell people what you're working on where

0:52:02.600 --> 0:52:04.359
<v Speaker 1>they can find you the things that people say at

0:52:04.360 --> 0:52:05.440
<v Speaker 1>the end of podcasts.

0:52:05.760 --> 0:52:09.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, it's such an interesting time. But like

0:52:09.760 --> 0:52:11.600
<v Speaker 2>I said, I'm trying to evolve as a creator, and

0:52:11.640 --> 0:52:14.080
<v Speaker 2>it's it's hard right now, just you know what I

0:52:14.120 --> 0:52:16.040
<v Speaker 2>love to create. I don't know if it resonates all

0:52:16.080 --> 0:52:19.480
<v Speaker 2>the time, and so it's like, you know, just finding

0:52:19.520 --> 0:52:23.960
<v Speaker 2>myself again. But I just wrote a show, we filmed it,

0:52:24.239 --> 0:52:27.239
<v Speaker 2>I cast it, we filmed it. It just came back

0:52:27.280 --> 0:52:31.200
<v Speaker 2>from its last round of color correction, and it's being mixed.

0:52:31.239 --> 0:52:33.560
<v Speaker 2>The sound is being mixed. So it arrives on Monday,

0:52:33.600 --> 0:52:36.560
<v Speaker 2>and so this is great. Yeah, the trailer is on

0:52:36.600 --> 0:52:41.200
<v Speaker 2>my my Instagram page, and I it's like, it's my

0:52:41.400 --> 0:52:45.200
<v Speaker 2>it's my story. It's about like being raised by part

0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Mafia Park Caribbean, like you know, and like but honestly,

0:52:49.600 --> 0:52:52.000
<v Speaker 2>like it's there's no lies, Like I could show you

0:52:52.040 --> 0:52:59.160
<v Speaker 2>the paperwork, it's all real. And then also and then

0:52:59.719 --> 0:53:01.920
<v Speaker 2>and then pastoring in the church in an all white

0:53:02.080 --> 0:53:06.400
<v Speaker 2>context and being the only black person there but leading

0:53:06.400 --> 0:53:08.319
<v Speaker 2>out in a space of a church that's just kind

0:53:08.360 --> 0:53:10.960
<v Speaker 2>of really crazy and kind of psychotic. And it's a

0:53:11.040 --> 0:53:14.080
<v Speaker 2>dark comedy because I'm really navigating grief through most of it.

0:53:14.640 --> 0:53:16.680
<v Speaker 2>So it's my heart to the viewer about like just

0:53:16.719 --> 0:53:20.400
<v Speaker 2>how I navigated my mom's passing while pastoring, while living

0:53:20.760 --> 0:53:23.640
<v Speaker 2>with my Italian uncle and having trying to rebel the

0:53:23.640 --> 0:53:26.200
<v Speaker 2>relationship with my Jamaican dad, and it's it's it's it's

0:53:26.239 --> 0:53:28.640
<v Speaker 2>fun chaos. And so that's what I'm working on right now.

0:53:28.680 --> 0:53:29.800
<v Speaker 2>That's my big baby.

0:53:30.200 --> 0:53:30.799
<v Speaker 1>I love this.

0:53:31.120 --> 0:53:33.359
<v Speaker 2>And of course your first thing is always your worst thing,

0:53:33.440 --> 0:53:35.120
<v Speaker 2>and so I don't know how it's gonna do.

0:53:35.360 --> 0:53:39.439
<v Speaker 1>But out there, listen, the only way you can get

0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:43.120
<v Speaker 1>better Chantelle is by putting out the stuff. Yeah, all

0:53:43.160 --> 0:53:45.520
<v Speaker 1>you can ever do. Ryan Cooger said this. He said

0:53:46.200 --> 0:53:48.960
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't compare his movies to one another. He just

0:53:49.080 --> 0:53:51.879
<v Speaker 1>knows that when he made Fruit Val that was as

0:53:51.880 --> 0:53:54.160
<v Speaker 1>good of a movie as he could make, and that

0:53:54.239 --> 0:53:55.799
<v Speaker 1>was as good as a filmmaker as he could make.

0:53:55.920 --> 0:53:58.839
<v Speaker 1>Same thing happened with Creed, Same thing happened with Black

0:53:58.880 --> 0:53:59.719
<v Speaker 1>Panther one and.

0:53:59.719 --> 0:54:01.680
<v Speaker 2>Two for him at that time, right for him, at

0:54:01.680 --> 0:54:02.600
<v Speaker 2>that time he could do.

0:54:02.960 --> 0:54:06.359
<v Speaker 1>That's when you made this with everything you know, in

0:54:06.440 --> 0:54:08.600
<v Speaker 1>all your experience. That's as good as you can be.

0:54:09.520 --> 0:54:12.920
<v Speaker 1>And all we can hope is that as we grow, change,

0:54:13.040 --> 0:54:16.480
<v Speaker 1>learn and get experience, we can get better. So that's it.

0:54:16.640 --> 0:54:20.120
<v Speaker 1>We'll be excited to see your first thing, ladies and gentlemen.

0:54:20.280 --> 0:54:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Shantel Smith heretic content creator and friend.

0:54:26.800 --> 0:54:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Check her Jesus. I love him with my whole heart. Okay.

0:54:32.040 --> 0:54:35.080
<v Speaker 2>I just love gay people too. That's all it is.

0:54:35.120 --> 0:54:39.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's all it is.

0:54:38.600 --> 0:54:41.480
<v Speaker 2>From from as a creator, like on social media, I

0:54:41.520 --> 0:54:43.239
<v Speaker 2>want to say a big thank you to you, and

0:54:43.320 --> 0:54:46.400
<v Speaker 2>I I know I'm speaking for a number of content creators.

0:54:46.440 --> 0:54:49.080
<v Speaker 2>I know because I'm I'm in the I'm in the mix, okay,

0:54:49.280 --> 0:54:51.839
<v Speaker 2>and I just want to say, like, thank you. Are

0:54:51.880 --> 0:54:52.520
<v Speaker 2>you on the status?

0:54:52.600 --> 0:54:53.000
<v Speaker 1>Ye think?

0:54:53.480 --> 0:54:58.480
<v Speaker 2>I think you big big thank you for like encouraging

0:54:58.760 --> 0:55:01.480
<v Speaker 2>honestly on some of my words days were like where

0:55:01.520 --> 0:55:03.480
<v Speaker 2>where I saw your posts? And like some of my

0:55:03.480 --> 0:55:05.359
<v Speaker 2>moments where I didn't want to post where I saw

0:55:05.400 --> 0:55:08.160
<v Speaker 2>your post are just like encouraging us as creators to

0:55:08.200 --> 0:55:11.839
<v Speaker 2>be fearless, be vulnerable, put your stuff out there, and

0:55:11.920 --> 0:55:13.920
<v Speaker 2>don't worry about what people are gonna think. Like you

0:55:13.960 --> 0:55:17.520
<v Speaker 2>and Mel Robbins, you're like both of two very different people,

0:55:17.520 --> 0:55:20.319
<v Speaker 2>but my almost my favorite people to follow because you

0:55:20.400 --> 0:55:22.719
<v Speaker 2>encourage us. And so it's like you, whether you like

0:55:22.840 --> 0:55:26.080
<v Speaker 2>or not, you are pastoring a group of content creators.

0:55:27.040 --> 0:55:31.000
<v Speaker 2>You are you rejected, No, no, you absolutely have to

0:55:31.040 --> 0:55:32.640
<v Speaker 2>receive it because there's so many of us that look

0:55:32.719 --> 0:55:35.239
<v Speaker 2>up to you and are looking towards you as someone

0:55:35.280 --> 0:55:37.440
<v Speaker 2>who's created a path for content creators to break out

0:55:37.440 --> 0:55:40.840
<v Speaker 2>of just social media and to like reinvent ourselves. So

0:55:41.000 --> 0:55:43.320
<v Speaker 2>thank you, thank you, I'll take you.

0:55:43.400 --> 0:55:43.839
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for.

0:55:43.880 --> 0:55:46.040
<v Speaker 2>Hiring me, Thank you for hiring me for that last

0:55:46.280 --> 0:55:46.879
<v Speaker 2>for the shop.

0:55:47.040 --> 0:55:49.719
<v Speaker 1>That was amazing. You were amazing. I can't wait for

0:55:49.760 --> 0:55:51.800
<v Speaker 1>people to see the stuff you wrote and the stuff

0:55:51.800 --> 0:55:54.520
<v Speaker 1>you acted in. You kill it, ladies and gentlemen, this

0:55:54.560 --> 0:55:56.440
<v Speaker 1>has been Shane tell Smith, I've been kept on stage.

0:55:56.680 --> 0:55:57.560
<v Speaker 1>Not my best moment.

0:55:57.920 --> 0:56:00.719
<v Speaker 3>If you like it, subscribe, rate it, do all those

0:56:00.760 --> 0:56:02.400
<v Speaker 3>things and If you don't.

0:56:02.680 --> 0:56:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, at least you watched this one. We'll see you

0:56:05.000 --> 0:56:17.160
<v Speaker 1>next week. This has been a Unanimous Media original. Not

0:56:17.239 --> 0:56:20.440
<v Speaker 1>My Best Moment was produced by iHeart Podcasts and Unanimous Media.

0:56:20.600 --> 0:56:24.040
<v Speaker 1>It was hosted by me Kevin Fredericks. Executive produced by

0:56:24.040 --> 0:56:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Stephen Curry, Eric Payton and Charlotte Sumter Jett Co executive

0:56:28.280 --> 0:56:32.120
<v Speaker 1>producer Klena Maria Cutney. The executi producers of the iHeart

0:56:32.160 --> 0:56:35.440
<v Speaker 1>Podcasts are Sean Titne and Jason English. This series was

0:56:35.440 --> 0:56:39.480
<v Speaker 1>produced by Peter Calter and Jabari Davis. Co producer Kurt Redmond.

0:56:39.760 --> 0:56:42.200
<v Speaker 1>Special thanks to Stephen Curry and Will Pearson. Not My

0:56:42.200 --> 0:56:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Best Moment is a production of Unanimous Media and iHeart Podcasts.

0:56:45.120 --> 0:56:47.839
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

0:56:47.920 --> 0:56:50.960
<v Speaker 1>Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.