Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.
Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglass. You know, Joy,
Speaker 1: there was a I think it was a mad magazine
Speaker 1: from like ages back, like it was published before my birth,
Speaker 1: and I ended up like finding it a stack of
Speaker 1: of my dad's old magazines and stuff and um. And
Speaker 1: there was one that depicted the this medieval space race
Speaker 1: between you know, kind of like the Holy War between
Speaker 1: the West and in the Middle East, except it was
Speaker 1: the space race. And so you have a Catholic Church
Speaker 1: blasting off into space on a rocket that was propelled Uh.
Speaker 1: It didn't have you know, a rocket engine in the
Speaker 1: lower portions of of the of the spaceship, but it
Speaker 1: had all these monks and they were just like busy praying,
Speaker 1: and it was propelled into orbit via contemptous Monday, uh,
Speaker 1: contempt for the Earth, and that was how they would
Speaker 1: achieve orbit. Yeah. But as it turns out that while
Speaker 1: there is not necessarily a Catholic space program or a
Speaker 1: or a Vatican space program per se, the the Vatican
Speaker 1: and the the Catholic Church is very interested in the cosmos.
Speaker 1: I mean, to a certain extent, they have been for
Speaker 1: a long time, because I mean there was a time
Speaker 1: back in the Middle Ages you had to study astronomy
Speaker 1: in order to understand theology. The Catholic Church was interested
Speaker 1: in calendar, so they're interested in the way the spheres
Speaker 1: are moving. And there's just a rich history of the
Speaker 1: two overlapping each other, at least until things become shaky, right, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: And and of course that brings to mind Galileo, right,
Speaker 1: and the whole heliocentric model which turned the Catholic Church
Speaker 1: on its head back in the day. Going from the
Speaker 1: idea that the the Earth was the center of the universe, too,
Speaker 1: something else might be the center of the universe, namely
Speaker 1: the Sun, and and that it's kind of like you
Speaker 1: can keep keep telling me science about the second when
Speaker 1: it starts interfering with the theology, then we're gonna have
Speaker 1: to have a serious, frank discussion about why you're a
Speaker 1: heretic and why you should agree with us on this
Speaker 1: one right, right, because there's this idea right that humans
Speaker 1: have sort of a birthright to the universe. And so
Speaker 1: if you're going to tell me that Earth is not
Speaker 1: the center of it all. Then who you know, who
Speaker 1: is the center of the universe if it's not humans.
Speaker 1: So that was like the main problem, right Yeah. Now
Speaker 1: since that time that the theology has come around to
Speaker 1: encompass this, this idea, but at the time that theology
Speaker 1: was not going to shift. No, it took them three
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty years to admit that Galileo was right,
Speaker 1: And in two thousand and nine they recktoned a statue
Speaker 1: to him. And I'm gonna bet I haven't seen the statue,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna bet it's not of him kneeling before
Speaker 1: the tribunal, yeah, or broken by the inquisition, right right,
Speaker 1: saying no, no, it was never mind, that was all
Speaker 1: wrong Philip Glass. Today, I believe, Yeah, philk Class did
Speaker 1: an opera about Galileo. Is there. Of course I have
Speaker 1: not seen it, but my understanding is that it's told
Speaker 1: in reverse, so it starts with a broken Galileo, you know,
Speaker 1: with everything in its life and shambles, and then works backwards.
Speaker 1: I love that guy, but every time I think of him,
Speaker 1: I always think of that that sort of corresponding um
Speaker 1: dance moves that tend to go along with any filk
Speaker 1: class music, and it's always like people rolling back and
Speaker 1: forth on a on a floor. Wos some interesting dance clubs.
Speaker 1: Yeah you don't see that the role Yeah yeah, the
Speaker 1: house remixes of philk class. Yeah. But so yeah, there's
Speaker 1: there there. There's a whole hullablulu of heliocentrism, which mirrors
Speaker 1: in a in a weird way, the search for extraterrestrial life, right,
Speaker 1: because again it's furthering that idea of well, if it's
Speaker 1: if it's if it's not us or you know, who
Speaker 1: is it? Are there other people out there? This idea
Speaker 1: that UM, this anthropomorphic idea of being questioned. Yeah, people
Speaker 1: are gonna be like, hey, God created anim and Eve,
Speaker 1: not kling Lower and Subican or something, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean just the idea that if we were to
Speaker 1: find alien like it, it throws a lot of things
Speaker 1: into You have to reevaluate a lot of accepted theology
Speaker 1: at the idea that UM accepted within the various churches
Speaker 1: that that say that God created the humans in his image, Like,
Speaker 1: then what does that mean of their aliens? What is
Speaker 1: their role are they? Do they need to be saved?
Speaker 1: Do they need to be converted? Or are they good,
Speaker 1: what's the rules? So it's really fascinating that the Catholic
Speaker 1: Church would involve itself so heavily as of late with
Speaker 1: the last two years in the cosmos. Again, not so
Speaker 1: much because of their past history. Um, you know, they're
Speaker 1: very academic in terms of um their view on cosmology.
Speaker 1: But the fact that they would even embrace the idea
Speaker 1: of aliens existing, it's sort of shocking. Yeah, because it
Speaker 1: is one of those things, Like I said, it would
Speaker 1: just it would throw a wrench into Uh. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that, you know, theology would would have to shift
Speaker 1: to it and belief would change, but it would cause
Speaker 1: a lot of people to have to reevaluate how they
Speaker 1: view the universe. So enter a man by the name
Speaker 1: of Guy Consum, who who I Actually I get to
Speaker 1: see him a couple of years back, became and and
Speaker 1: I spoken a local college. He's a fascinating Guy's a
Speaker 1: really interesting dude. He maintains the Vaticans meteorite collection, among
Speaker 1: other things. Oh yeah, yeah. He has two degrees in
Speaker 1: Earth and Planetary science from M I T. And he
Speaker 1: works for the pope. So that's how he's sort of
Speaker 1: bridging this whole uh, you know, Catholic Church and and
Speaker 1: science movement as of late and uh, specifically he studies
Speaker 1: the origins of asteroids, dwarf planets, and objects orbiting the
Speaker 1: Sun beyond Neptune. And he entered the Jesuit order. And
Speaker 1: this is what I thought was interesting too. He has
Speaker 1: an interest in science because he was greatly influenced by
Speaker 1: science fiction. Cool. Yeah, and he's a really cool beard too,
Speaker 1: to say he has a magnificent beard. Yeah. I mean
Speaker 1: he's just a very well spoken guy. Like you say, though,
Speaker 1: I mean he's been he's been making the rounds recently.
Speaker 1: He's not speaking not just at faith based colleges, but
Speaker 1: also showing up on like the Colbert Report, even not
Speaker 1: not exactly the most risk free interview environment. You know,
Speaker 1: he's he's showing up the He just all over the
Speaker 1: lecture circuit. No, but he's a savvy guy and he's
Speaker 1: got a lot of very interesting things to say about
Speaker 1: how the church is squaring um, you know, space exploration
Speaker 1: and aliens because it's just the possible existence of aliens
Speaker 1: with theology and uh, and and very upfront about to
Speaker 1: say that, you know, the church getting it spectacularly wrong
Speaker 1: about Galileo or or even you know, touching on issues
Speaker 1: of of intelligent design and an evolution. Like he's not
Speaker 1: going so far as to say, yeah, that you should
Speaker 1: just be totally behind evolution, but he's he's you see
Speaker 1: him really stomping on especially the American conservative branch of
Speaker 1: intelligent design, which oh yeah, he calls it bad theology,
Speaker 1: and he says that it's been hijacked by American creationists fundamentalists,
Speaker 1: and that it's essentially turning Christianity into a pagan god
Speaker 1: who's responsible for lightning and thunder rather than the Earth
Speaker 1: being responsible for its atmosphere, which is like, whoa, yeah,
Speaker 1: Like consider that this is coming from uh, someone in
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church. But there is a really interesting quote
Speaker 1: that I pulled in. This is from a psycom you
Speaker 1: see Santa Cruz interview by alyssa Poem, and she asked him,
Speaker 1: what's your advice for scientists believers who don't necessarily wear
Speaker 1: a collar so you're you know, you believe in God,
Speaker 1: but you're a scientist, And he said, there's nothing to
Speaker 1: be gained by talking religion in the scientific context. It
Speaker 1: doesn't belong there. I'd like to see more scientists who
Speaker 1: are churchgoers talk about their science in their church to
Speaker 1: their fellow parishioners. Love of them. Know that science isn't
Speaker 1: the enemy. I think there's a great hunger for science
Speaker 1: among everyone. It's a human desire to know how the
Speaker 1: universe works. Also, you can't do science without admitting I
Speaker 1: don't have all the answers. Unfortunately, that's never the way
Speaker 1: science is communicated. Scientists like saying I've got the answers,
Speaker 1: when in fact real science says no, I don't have
Speaker 1: the answers. I'm still trying to find them. That would
Speaker 1: lower the temperature of any discussion. So I thought, you
Speaker 1: know what, that is a really interesting, measured way to
Speaker 1: talk about that. You know, it's basically the idea that
Speaker 1: that science is really important obviously and sets up to
Speaker 1: it to answer some extremely important questions about life. But
Speaker 1: maybe that that religion has has has an important role
Speaker 1: in the ethical dimensions of life that are outside the
Speaker 1: realm of science. Right. He's saying that, you know, in
Speaker 1: terms of his interpretation of the Bible, he doesn't take
Speaker 1: it literally. Um that there are these are wonderful stories
Speaker 1: to glean lessons from. But and I think that's his
Speaker 1: problem with the whole creationism thing is that there's a
Speaker 1: lot of uh literal stuff going on there. But I
Speaker 1: have thought about this guy that you know, he's he
Speaker 1: is fascinating um to know more about. And in fact,
Speaker 1: if you want to go to scom and see that
Speaker 1: you see Santa Cruz interview by less A Pool, you
Speaker 1: can find out a lot more about him. But I
Speaker 1: sort of wondered, is this the guy who's driving uh
Speaker 1: this sort of mission from the Catholic Church or is
Speaker 1: this just you know, them being progressive, yeah, or is
Speaker 1: this the progressive guy that has that really has that
Speaker 1: again is really driving something in the church or is
Speaker 1: this the progressive guy that they let off the leash
Speaker 1: to sort of make good with the media. Right, because
Speaker 1: you see some other other things that the churches is
Speaker 1: doing recently that that that is it falls into similar ground.
Speaker 1: For instance, the church recently backed an adult stem cell
Speaker 1: research company called Neo Stem to the tune of about
Speaker 1: a million dollars, which granted, that's kind of chump change
Speaker 1: for the church, but still, uh, something is is volatile
Speaker 1: as as stem cells, uh you know, and they're you know,
Speaker 1: and they're not going to get behind anything but adults
Speaker 1: stem cells at this point. But still they think at
Speaker 1: least you know, through a few bucks behind the adult
Speaker 1: stem cell research, which was which is which is interesting well,
Speaker 1: and again that's the scientific research part of it, right,
Speaker 1: so they are furthering that mission for science. They've also
Speaker 1: hosted a conference between astronomerus, physicists, by and biologists to
Speaker 1: discuss the existence of alien life and what effect it
Speaker 1: would have on the Church and Christianity and astronomers. Father
Speaker 1: Fuentes he said that the search for e T does
Speaker 1: not conflict with our faith quote because we cannot put
Speaker 1: creative limits on the freedom of God unquote. So again
Speaker 1: this is some really interesting messaging coming out of Catholic
Speaker 1: Church about this. Yeah. This this guy's the same the
Speaker 1: same one who who said that the aliens might potentially
Speaker 1: live in a sinless state, which I think I read
Speaker 1: that where like I still have a big question mark
Speaker 1: over my head about that. Yeah, well it does underline
Speaker 1: an interesting idea. I mean, it gets into the idea
Speaker 1: of what if we've we come across the alien life
Speaker 1: and they're far better than us, They're superior to us there, technologically, morally, ethically,
Speaker 1: way better than us. Then we wouldn't be able to,
Speaker 1: you know, walk into the room and say hey, we
Speaker 1: got some some pamphlets we want you to read, and
Speaker 1: they're like, no, thank you, we're you know, we've involved
Speaker 1: the on consciousness and less. Yeah, there's inner sinless by
Speaker 1: the way you read our pamphlet. Um. Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 1: It's someone who posts the question about whether or not
Speaker 1: Constant Manio would baptize and alien and he said, well,
Speaker 1: of course if if they would like that. Um. But
Speaker 1: then he went on to say that, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's probably not likely that we're going to find
Speaker 1: this being and there's the question of it being intelligent
Speaker 1: and us being able to communicate with it, and so
Speaker 1: it's not really a practical question. Yeah, if you have,
Speaker 1: it depends on who you ask about the whole, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, what are what are the chances that there's
Speaker 1: life and in in the in the universe beyond us,
Speaker 1: and and then what are the chances that it's intelligent?
Speaker 1: Then what are the chances that will encounter it. It
Speaker 1: becomes a safer and safer bet that the church is
Speaker 1: making here by talking about it at all, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's like it's kind of Like, I can talk
Speaker 1: all day about how great I'm going to be of
Speaker 1: an alien lands in the office here at work, but
Speaker 1: we both know it's not gonna happen. So I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna have to you I can say, I can. I'll
Speaker 1: bait cakes and give speeches all day, but I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna have to learn any lines or bring any baking
Speaker 1: stuff to like they're not going to have to commit
Speaker 1: to baptizing aliens and really getting behind that in earnest right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's yeah, So it's it's a safe bat. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's my read on it. Now. I know, I think
Speaker 1: it's very interesting, and I think, you know, is this
Speaker 1: are they ahead of the curve or you know, is
Speaker 1: this a marketing stunt? Yeah? We we're making the comparison
Speaker 1: yesterday to the episode of the Office, the American version
Speaker 1: where everyone's afraid of age discrimination. So Creed, the the
Speaker 1: older creepy dude on the show. Um, he shows up
Speaker 1: to work with his hair dyed black and starts trying
Speaker 1: to talk about things that are young and hip. So,
Speaker 1: you know, the the cynical side of me reads a
Speaker 1: lot of this and sees Creed with his obviously dyed
Speaker 1: black hair where it's you know, it's like the old
Speaker 1: church saying, hey, how about those space aliens. So so
Speaker 1: what you're saying is that the church is trying to
Speaker 1: appeal to a wider audience and is wearing skinny jeans
Speaker 1: underneath their vestments. I think that's one view, that one
Speaker 1: that one can take this one interpretation of what's going on.
Speaker 1: Um I I'm I don't necessarily. I think that's there
Speaker 1: are probably a lot of of of minds behind this movement,
Speaker 1: and there's some people. I'm sure guy totally believes in
Speaker 1: what he's he's putting out there. Oh no, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's the interesting thing about this person is that he's
Speaker 1: obviously he's a scientist, you know, through and through he
Speaker 1: just I think he happens to wear the collar and
Speaker 1: he's again he's trying to square that for himself, possibly
Speaker 1: in for the Catholic Church and for our perception of that.
Speaker 1: So there's no doubt I don't think that he's like
Speaker 1: any sort of marketing machine. I think he's the real deal,
Speaker 1: and that's why he's so fascinating. He's got some really
Speaker 1: interesting insights into science and theology. Um. But yeah, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess. I guess we'll know on the more getting
Speaker 1: side if that's really what they're pursuing. If the Pope,
Speaker 1: you know, addresses an audience and starts dropping L O
Speaker 1: L weaferences or um or like Creed comes out with
Speaker 1: some blue hair, perhaps this presentation is brought to you
Speaker 1: by Intel sponsors of tomorrow. That's hard to say, but
Speaker 1: I think it's a fascinating proposition for where we are
Speaker 1: right now, that the Catholic Church is looking at science
Speaker 1: in this way and opening the discussion and asking people
Speaker 1: to to consider their place in the world in the
Speaker 1: in the context of um of life, life outside of
Speaker 1: the earth. I'm trailing off a little bit on that
Speaker 1: because I'm like, yeah, I don't want to get too philosophical,
Speaker 1: but you know, I think you're picking up what I'm
Speaker 1: putting down there. Uh. It makes me think of a
Speaker 1: line a quote that I got from professor by the
Speaker 1: name of Varadaja v Rahman. And he's the author of
Speaker 1: Truth and Tension and science and religion and um and uh.
Speaker 1: If I remember he's actually um uh Hindu um and
Speaker 1: he has he has a lot of interesting ideas on
Speaker 1: this because he he often puts out that there's not
Speaker 1: as much there's not really a clash between science and Hinduism,
Speaker 1: that the the the controversies between science and religion tend
Speaker 1: to exist more in Western societies. And uh, and he
Speaker 1: had this great did you tell me? He said, I
Speaker 1: seriously doubt that the dialogue between religion and science will cease,
Speaker 1: But I do believe that as a result of these exchanges,
Speaker 1: religion is likely to become less irrational and some of
Speaker 1: its expressions in some of its expressions. In fact, one
Speaker 1: would hope that the greatest contribution science can make in
Speaker 1: calming religion is to eradicate the many unpleasant, unhappy, and
Speaker 1: in many cases destructive aspects of religious expression. So I
Speaker 1: I personally find that really encouraging. I like this view
Speaker 1: that that it's not a situation of science and religion
Speaker 1: duking it out and just extre emails them. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that these two things can can coexist in a
Speaker 1: in a way that is not harmful to the culture
Speaker 1: as a whole. Yeah. And I've always wondered why we've
Speaker 1: had to set up this paradigm of the other, you know,
Speaker 1: as humans, in order to think that we have to
Speaker 1: exist the way we exist. Um, So I do think
Speaker 1: it's interesting that that both sides could possibly come to
Speaker 1: the table and for for the greater good of humanity.
Speaker 1: I'm holding out for that. Yeah. And I like the
Speaker 1: idea that finding alien life wouldn't just freak everyone out
Speaker 1: and send everybody into a tizzy because I I don't
Speaker 1: feel like my I mean, my world view would be
Speaker 1: changed significantly if we if we found aliens. But you
Speaker 1: know it's I don't I wouldn't jump off a building.
Speaker 1: So do you think the aliens might be wearing the
Speaker 1: funny hat? That's the question? Yeah, all right, do we
Speaker 1: have any listener emails? We have some emails. UM, a
Speaker 1: listener by the name of Mr Squirrel. Right, and you know,
Speaker 1: you get to you get to choose your own name
Speaker 1: on the internet, So go for it. Um says hi,
Speaker 1: I love the squirrel well, and he says, Hi, I
Speaker 1: love the podcast. I had a few quick additions to
Speaker 1: your subliminal mentioning podcast. In particular, I'm fascinated fascinated by
Speaker 1: the way ways in which casinos have used it to
Speaker 1: keep their clients paying Um. And then he and Mr
Speaker 1: Squirrel had the three examples knows no visible clocks anywhere
Speaker 1: on the floor on the floor to cause people to
Speaker 1: lose track of time, bright flashing lights and allowed sounds
Speaker 1: to disorient and tantalize people with the chance of winning
Speaker 1: an amaze like floor design so that people will walk
Speaker 1: by many games on their way in and out. M
Speaker 1: I'm seeing some similarities with casinos and workplaces a little bit. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: what do we have. We don't really have clocks around.
Speaker 1: We have somewhat of amaze we do, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: go through like a gift shop or anything. Well, you
Speaker 1: haven't been to the gift shop. I haven't. Then where
Speaker 1: where's the gift shop? Man? You haven't been. I don't
Speaker 1: know that I can tell you. Okay, that's not a
Speaker 1: janitorial closet. That's all I'm gonna say. Well cool, those
Speaker 1: are Yeah, I mean casinos are are very interesting. Um.
Speaker 1: We could probably do a whole podcast enters in ways
Speaker 1: that that that they mess with people and ensnare them.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And it wouldn't be fascinating to to run
Speaker 1: an m R I on someone who's gambling. What it's
Speaker 1: going on in that head? Yours is you're playing the
Speaker 1: One Armed bandit? Um. Here we have another one from
Speaker 1: a listener by the name of a friend reference, and
Speaker 1: they're writing in response to the attack of the Creative
Speaker 1: Brain podcast. Uh, let's say. I'm an artist, a visual artist.
Speaker 1: So many times I have thought I'm crazy, and I've
Speaker 1: gone on to accept that just because I'm an artist,
Speaker 1: until you said that it could be possible that my
Speaker 1: mind just gets overloaded with ideas. Um, I've I've accepted
Speaker 1: my craziness and I know that I'm always thinking of
Speaker 1: ideas NonStop. I can't help it. If someone says something
Speaker 1: about I don't know a tree, I'll immediately picture trees
Speaker 1: in my head. I'll draw them in my head a
Speaker 1: variety of ways, and I'll automatically begin to brainstorm idea
Speaker 1: after idea, like I'm watching it being created in my
Speaker 1: head rather than contributing. I feel there are ideas in
Speaker 1: my head that are originally mine, and I feel their
Speaker 1: ideas in my head that I have received. I've always
Speaker 1: felt like just a vessel. I know I am just
Speaker 1: a vessel, and now thinking of it, it kind of
Speaker 1: makes me think of another podcast of yours, as You've
Speaker 1: got a genius. When you guys said that we are
Speaker 1: just host to all of this bacteria. So is our
Speaker 1: brain too, am I simply a transmitter equipped with the
Speaker 1: dexterity and circumstances to receive, interpret, and relay creative information
Speaker 1: through visual representation. So it's the crazy. My ability to
Speaker 1: organize these ideas a mental stenographer is what I am
Speaker 1: in great need up. Let me know if you come
Speaker 1: across one. Thanks for your info. Again, another great email
Speaker 1: with tons of insight, because we did. We talked about that.
Speaker 1: We talked about the parallels between UM. You know, people
Speaker 1: who have this ability to not filter UM out as
Speaker 1: many ideas, right, And I believe this was the the
Speaker 1: flow of neurons and and then there was the the
Speaker 1: schizophrenic aspect. And that doesn't that's not saying that people
Speaker 1: who share this similar um brain action are all crazy.
Speaker 1: It just says that, you know, they've they've studied schizophrenics
Speaker 1: and they've studied people who are highly creative and they
Speaker 1: noticed that the same thing happens UM. So it's really
Speaker 1: interesting to hear a firsthand acount about that. Yeah, just
Speaker 1: an insight into the artistic mind and like what's going
Speaker 1: on when you're creating things? So cool. Thanks for letting
Speaker 1: us know about that. And so if you have any
Speaker 1: interesting ideas you want to share about how casinos and
Speaker 1: snare our mind, how the creative process works, or indeed,
Speaker 1: if you have any thoughts on the whole um combination
Speaker 1: of Church and cosmos, and in the Vatican's interest in
Speaker 1: space and how that might relate to your own worldview,
Speaker 1: then let us know. We're on Facebook and Twitter as
Speaker 1: Blow the Mind and you can always drop us a
Speaker 1: line at blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com.
Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of our topics, visit
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