WEBVTT - Mother May I? 0:00:01.639 --> 0:00:05.400 The number one podcast is back. They're my relatives. I 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:09.040 still love them. I pray that God forgives them. I 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:11.680 pray that I'll see them in heaven. But here on 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:17.760 earth eternity in jail is not long enough. Eight from 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:21.439 the same family dead in rural southern Ohio. One family 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:25.319 accused of killing members of another family. Just when we 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:27.880 thought we knew what happened during the piked And Massacre, 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.640 everything is turned upside down. I just so why something 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:40.000 is not right? Was this truly about custody. I don't 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:43.040 think he would kill her, but I think he would 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:48.319 kill for her. Now, with childs on the horizon, new 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.559 theories arise. There's like a good four or five places 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:54.800 at Burndale. We're told he's lying because they're getting death 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.840 threats behind bars. I would said to the jail house 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:01.520 in Pike County could look money on their So it's 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:03.840 not years aye for me. Why are we just learning 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:06.440 about this now? This is one of the biggest pieces 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:10.920 of physical evidence that we've had thus for. Just when 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:15.959 we thought it couldn't get any stranger or darker, it has. 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:22.280 This is the Pikes And Massacre, Season three, Episode one, 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:29.840 Mother May I officers wearing body armor guarded Angela Wagner 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.679 as she walked into a Pike County courtroom to admit, 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.760 after years of denials, that she helped plan the murders 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:40.160 of Hannah Roden and her family. On the warm and 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.720 heavily humid afternoon of September tenth, twenty twenty one, in 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:48.840 Pike County, Ohio, accused killer mother Angela Wagner, arrived in court. 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:51.920 She was wearing black and white striped prison garb, and 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.040 her hair, previously short and blonde, now hangs in a 0:01:55.080 --> 0:02:01.960 long brown curtain. Here's Judge Randy Deering. You're admitting for 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:10.360 bargain your wife to requires beyond reason bad. Do you 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:15.760 understand all those? Right? It's hard to hear, but that's 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:21.200 Angelo Wagner admitting guilt. The mother accused in Ohio's most 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:26.799 complex Amazone investigation has just reached a plea deal. As 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.840 part of the deal, the aggravated murder charges against Wagner 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:37.280 were dropped. She also agreed to testify against her family members. 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.560 She will spend thirty years in prison and cannot apply 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:45.839 for parole. Well the defendant the right to us understatements 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:51.040 were very visit to April this year. In the usual, 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:54.079 h and her family member is all inspired together to 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:58.320 committees RNIC defenses specifically the entry agent homes and for 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:05.760 different locations in order to kill me. Good time yeah, 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:12.760 the defendant and the statement they joined recommendation to thirty 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:18.359 years in prison. Angel Joe Wagoner did unlovely and was 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:22.560 pursed to commit everybody murder was another person who were persons, 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.760 so her specific targets of the Wagers so sadly were 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:33.240 killed simply because they happened to be there. It's not 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.160 clear which of the eight victims were targets and which, 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.320 as Angie Kaneppa said, were killed simply because they happened 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.240 to be there. Was there a kill list and if so, 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.200 were others just caught by happenstance. In the mayhem of 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:50.440 the Wagner's murder spree, she was aware that night they 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:55.080 walked out on the floor twenty and sixteen, whom they 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.080 were going and what they were going to do. They're 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.440 going to try to cover up their involvement in affords 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:05.240 as well. Betters Tress bass Into eighty two restners were 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:09.960 found with the attracted Hilda. In all, Angela Wagner pled 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:14.840 guilty to fourteen charges, including conspiracy to commit murder, burglary, 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:20.599 possession of firearms, tampering with evidence, forgery, and engaging in 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.840 a pattern of corrupt activity. We now know that the 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.919 Knight of the murderers, Angela Wagner, was at home watching 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:30.000 her two grandchildren while the others allegedly went out on 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:40.040 a kill spring m Courtney Armstrong a television producer at 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:44.440 Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. In the 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.200 three hundred and one days since our last episode aired, 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:51.120 there have been several significant court hearings. The biggest yet 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:55.799 an unexpected appearance by accused killer mother herself, Angela Wagner. 0:04:56.440 --> 0:05:00.240 She's the second accused Wagner member to plead out. Here's 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.880 Stephanie and Jeff speaking with forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:11.200 and journalist Angeanette Levy about Angela's plea deal. I was 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:16.119 surprised because apparently she's eligible for release after serving thirty years. 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:20.520 So who wouldn't take that because then she can possibly 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.479 and I say possibly, because she may not live that 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.440 long one day get out of prison. And this is 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:30.520 a huge revelation. I mean, for three years now, we've 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.640 talked about the four core Wagoners being at every Rodan 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:35.760 home the night of the murders, all potentially even being 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.760 trigger polars, And to find out, Angela is now kind 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:40.800 of pulling the rug out from under that story and 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.000 saying that she was in fact actually at home, presumably 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.200 watching the children, as her husband and two sons were 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.600 out murdering the eight Rodan family members. Is a big 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:54.680 shift in how that night played out. That is a 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.200 very low sentence for somebody who, by her own admission, 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.640 is saying that she plotted plan to murder eight people. 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:03.760 I knew full well that they were leaving the house 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:08.640 allegedly to murder that night, so she stayed home in 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:13.200 babysat and just waited for them to get home. My 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:15.480 thought is, she doesn't have to be in the room 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.599 pulling a trigger here. There have been people that have 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:22.440 gotten the needle over the years for being a planner, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:27.000 a facilitator, if you will, of a broader arching theme. 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:31.000 She knows what she's involved in, and she'd better be 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.000 thinking her lucky stars. You know, there's thirty years that 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.880 she's giving. Maybe she wasn't physically there. She was there, though, 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:42.640 I mean, it makes you wonder she's out going to 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:44.480 walmarts and by the shoes for her kids to go. 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.400 Do it like how a mom buys her kids shoes 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:49.440 for the first day of school, and now she's getting off, 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.280 probably with the lightest sentence. Did she have the wherewithal 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.839 to see that maybe if I stay home, my hands 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.040 are clean or much cleaner than the rest of my family. 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.599 If Angela Wagner was looking to protect her family and 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:09.159 her son's daughter, why would she possibly send her sons 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:13.160 out to commit murder, They too could possibly be killed. 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:17.760 You don't have to whitewash this in any way. She 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.120 was there, you know. We talked about the boots which 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.440 are going to come into play, I think, and we 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:26.080 talked about the weapons that were utilized and how the 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.520 setups on those were. She may not have had a 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.800 gun in her hand, but she was there in more 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:39.760 ways than one. It's very possible she is leaving one 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.080 of her sons her dead to take the hit for her. 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:48.600 That's even more demanded. She also was the shopper and 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:52.880 involved in a lot of the planning of this, and 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.560 I can say that now because she's admitted to it. 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:59.040 You know, she's not accused anymore. She's pleading guilty. Although 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:02.560 one interesting legal point is that Angela and Jake Wagner 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:06.320 have to testify to the satisfaction of the prosecution or 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.080 all four of their death sentences are back on the table. 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:11.760 That means, for an extreme example, if Angela and Jake 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.560 plead the fifth or do not testify to something that 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.760 the prosecution believes that they know according to the deal 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.840 they've made, this negates the plea deal. What a show 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:24.800 this court appearance will be so for the first time. 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:30.800 Billy Wagner, the accused father, George Wagner, the accused eldest son, 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.439 both now are moving forward with their trials, and ultimately 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.640 Jake Wagner, the youngest son, and now mom Angela Wagner, 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:44.000 will testify against them in front of them ida eye, 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.520 and if the stories don't add up, they all could 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:54.319 be looking at death sentences. It basically means that Angela 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.000 and Jake Wagner better bring the goods to the trial. 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:01.000 According to Angela Wagner's testimony, her family purchased quite a 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:05.800 few things to prepare for this murder. Special shoes from Walmart, ammunition, 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:10.040 a magazine clip, brass catchers and a bug detector. And 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:13.600 a bug detector is something that detects signals admitted from cameras, 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.280 which would help figure out if there were surveillance cameras. 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:19.319 So there was clearly a lot of thought and preparation 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:21.680 for this murder. This was not a crime of passion. 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:28.640 Here Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa further describing the Wagner's alleged 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:32.840 planning of the murders, specific purchases they made and actions 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:37.400 they took to cover up the crime. The foes retire 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:41.120 together an autosis and defended to a part in that 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:44.959 as well as making various purchases to accomplish people there 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.280 needed to phones in all victions and cameras and others 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:51.000 to be able to additionally, to destroy those items before 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:55.560 acutis to manor after planning for mast committee a tamasides 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.040 and be carrying the commiside out. Four defendend time tribut 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:06.440 asking others or to be dishonest with us actually admitted 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:08.920 to purchasings are him laying much the events if they 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:10.800 were meant to help the other three good events and 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:14.920 carrying out the crimes such as which defends people to 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.360 be able to call for help. The thought of the 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:22.560 jammers is so horrifying. I mean, the forethought that would 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:26.440 go into disabling the Rodents family's phones so that they 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:28.800 wouldn't be able to call for help as they were 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:33.920 being shot to death is really just a very scary visual. 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:41.319 Can you imagine horror hits your house. You're fighting for 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:45.040 your life, the people you love are being murdered, and 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.040 the murderers are coming for you next, and you can 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.880 finally get to the phone, and now the phones are 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:53.800 jammed and you can't even call nine one one. It's 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.640 anybody's worst nightmare. It's a nightmare scenario and then a 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:02.920 nightmare within that. We know, for example, little Chris was 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:06.400 able to hide for some time during the murders. It 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.480 makes you wonder did he have access to a cell 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.960 phone or a house phone and tried to call for help? 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:16.559 And couldn't you get through the scariest thought imaginable. When 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:18.280 we first started covering this, it was like, you know, 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:20.600 Ninja's in the night and it was all no one 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.080 could possibly figure out who did this? They were so skilled? 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.080 Whoever did this murder? Now we know it's pretty sloppy. 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:29.960 Did they just get lucky for two years. There were 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.320 shell casings left at the scene. That's how these people 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.240 get caught. They make mistakes, they don't cover all of 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:38.840 their tracks. This is one of the biggest murder cases 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:44.160 in Ohio's history, if not the biggest. So here we 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:48.440 are two plea deals, many motions, and two remaining trials ahead. 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.559 Is it possible that Angela Wagner orchestrated the plan to 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:57.280 murder other mothers in front of their children? And if so, 0:11:57.760 --> 0:11:59.880 how could a mother create a plan that would turn 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:05.640 her own sons into killers. Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:08.760 remembers driving past the house where the Wagner family lived. 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.200 I remember traveling out to that home that they all shared, 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.839 that farmhouse. It made me think, you know, for that 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.320 moment time when I'm you know, traveling through that little 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:22.599 lane in front of the home, you sit there and 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:25.320 you kind of consider it, you know. I remember slowing 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:27.079 down the car and just kind of staring at it, 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.559 looking at it, you know, set there and that it's 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:32.679 a beautiful backdrop, you know, the fence and the greenery 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.480 behind it, and you're thinking about, you know, what kind 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.480 of plannings going on around the kitchen table. They're all 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:43.800 party to this, and it just becomes absolutely insidious. And 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:47.600 it seemed impossible to imagine that they were having murderer meetings. 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.000 We were speculating about that and it seemed impossible. But 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:53.040 now we do know that to be a matter of fact, 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.000 if we believe everything that's been said so far by 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:03.080 Jake and Angela. Yeah, I agree. You start talking about conspiracy, 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.439 you gotta have a meeting. You know, you gotta have 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:10.960 a meeting. It's a collaborative effort. You know, they had meetings. 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:12.800 Trust me. I don't know if anybody get minutes, but 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:20.480 they had meetings. Unique to this case is that there 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:24.880 are so many mothers involved on all sides. Three mothers 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.360 were murdered that night, including beloved matriarch, thirty seven year 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:32.520 old victim Dana Roden. Dana Roden was returning home from 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:34.839 working a double shift as a nurse that faithful night. 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.760 She was shot five times in the head, four in 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.000 the side of the head, and once under her chin. 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.360 Dana Roden lived on Union Hill Road with her nineteen 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:52.120 year old daughter, victim Hanname Roden. Hanname Roden shared a 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:54.840 two and a half year old daughter with admitted murderer 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.439 Jake Wagner. This child is said to be at the 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:02.959 center of this story. Hannah may Rodin had also given 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.959 birth just five days prior and was holding her newborn 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:11.400 when she was shot fice in the head. We should 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:15.600 remind you that there are two Hannah's in this story. Admittedly, 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.400 we know the least about mother and victim, twenty year 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:22.720 old Hannah Gilly. She had long blonde hair, were dark 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:27.920 framed eyeglasses, and hoped to start a daycare. She and 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.320 her fiance eldest son and victim Frankie Rodin, were murdered 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.360 in their bed in front of their six month old 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:37.160 and Frankie's three year old son. The children were found 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:46.920 alive at the scenes. Hannah Gilly was shot five times 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:51.600 in the head, once through the eye. To add another 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:55.080 layer to that's already complicated story, Hannah Gilly was the 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:59.440 sister of Charlie Gilly. Charlie Gilly was the guy Hannah 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:02.400 may Rodin started dating after her split from Jake Wagner. 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:07.400 So the relationship between Hannah Gilly's brother, Charlie Gilly, and 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:11.720 Hannah may Roden feels significant to the story because it 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.720 was the first relationship that Hannah Rodin really got into 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.120 after her split from Jake Wagner. And of course there's 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:21.200 no way to know this for sure, or at least 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.960 until the trials happened, but it makes you wonder if 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:27.760 Hannah Gilly was shot so many times five to be specific, 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.960 because Jake Wagner felt some type of way about her 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:39.520 brother's relationship with Hannah May We're going to take a break. 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:49.040 We'll be back in a moment. On May second, twenty 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.560 twenty two, a mere three weeks before this episode is airing, 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:57.560 there was another court appearance. This was emotions hearing between 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.320 the prosecution, an accused old his son, George Wagner the 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.640 fourth defense team. It's the latest turn in Ohio's largest 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:09.800 homicide investigation. Attorneys for George Wagner the Fourth say there 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:13.280 is proof he did not kill any of the eight victims. 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.520 Attorneys for the oldest Wagner's son are now asking for 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:22.960 murder charges to be dropped. The hearing revealed even more 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.600 details of the Wagner's time leading up to the murders, 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:30.440 the night itself, and the aftermath. There was a specific 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.200 focus on how the Wagner family treated women who entered 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:37.800 their fold, beginning with victim Hanname Rodin, Jake Wagner's former 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.240 girlfriend and mother of his child. The court lays out 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:46.240 how Hanname was manipulated, abused, and controlled, all with Angela 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:55.120 at the helm. Thank you. This is State of Ohio 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:59.040 playoff versus George Washington Wagner the fourth defender. The case 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:04.800 number twenty eighteen S one fifty five. Today's May second, 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.800 twenty twenty two, and they hearing. We have a hearing 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:13.719 schedule one motions today. The defendant was present in court. Attorneys, 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.400 the record should reflect to the defendish appearing to day, 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:23.200 and so though you clothed in visible restraints. The five 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.960 foot nine George Wagner the Fourth is thickly built, with 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.240 green eyes and thinning brown hair. He wears the same 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.520 clothes to each court appearance, a button down with a 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:36.040 black vest over it. George Wagner sits flanked by his 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.600 two attorneys, largely keeping his eyes lowered to the desk 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:45.760 in front of him. Here again, Special Prosecutor Angakanepa, I 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.520 should talk about what we believe people were arching think 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:53.240 of this criminal enterprise. It's kind of the all for 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:57.080 one and one raw right, they functioned as a family unit, 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:00.760 so part of that was control over the grandchildren. In 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:07.480 the next the defendant son and Jake Starr also when 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.600 Jake hold would be this unborn child at the time, 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.800 so in their reaction to when they lose control of that, 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:18.480 there obviously also was some financial purpose behind some of 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:22.000 what they did. Right, they were homeschooled, very insular. You 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.399 did not have people going off and doing things on 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.879 their own. So as far as the defendant and the 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:36.200 relationship with Hannah, this involves domestic violence towards Hannah. When 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.000 we look back at Hanname Roden's social media posts and 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:41.800 the months leading up to her murder, it's clear she 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:45.240 was crying out for help. In one post, she states, 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:50.280 quote end domestic violence, live a happier life. Here again 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.760 Angie Kneppa further outlining the length the Wagoners went through 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.800 to attempt to secure Hanname Rodent's child. We do have 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:02.040 admissions on the part of Jay as to pushing her 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.560 up against the wall and basically having his arm in 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.720 a position that it was choking her hairways, we'd have 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:13.359 witnesses to him chasing her in a vehicle after getting 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:17.119 upset with her one day, his controlling nature towards Hannah, 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.920 including that got limited to dictating every aspect in regard 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.439 to their shared child. That continued writing up until Hannah 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:32.640 was killed. His controlling nature towards Hannah regarding the second child, 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:36.040 including but not limited to telling her not to disclose 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:39.840 the child's pactual father that it was his child. Because 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.040 Hannah was very forthright with Jake and told him that 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:48.719 it was not his child, he tried to get her 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.080 to agree to not tell the actual father that the 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:56.640 child was that person's child, offering to give her money 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.280 to put his name on their certificate, trying to give 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:01.760 vince her to move to Alaska with the whole family, 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:06.720 and suggesting that they raise that child alongside your sheer child, 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:13.440 as if the child was the defendant. The father of 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.720 the baby, Angie Kneppa is referring to as Charlie Gilly, 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:20.720 who had just heard about Charlie Gilly dated Hanname rodin 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:24.359 the summer before she was murdered. He was later proven 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:32.600 to be the father of her five day old. Here's 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:38.200 Stephanie and Jeff. This is the story as old as time, 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:43.760 and we hear it a lot Unfortunately, jealousy plus rage 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:48.560 often equals death, and this case seems to be no 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:56.600 different in that regard. Honestly, it's a young mom. How 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:59.399 do you murder somebody in that way straight to the face. 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:02.840 It seems as though there has to be something more 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:10.440 personal to this, you know, we recently came across some 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.720 personal photographs that were shared with us, one of which 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.800 is particularly haunting. It shows Hannah May Rodin in the 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:21.760 hospital right after a giving birth to her baby. She's 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:26.760 sitting on her hospital bed next to her father, also victim, 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:31.480 Chris Rodin Senior, and she's holding her baby and wedge 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:36.960 between them is now who we know to be a murderer, 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:44.960 Jake Wagner, sitting between them, and he is smiling ear 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:47.880 to ear as though in a family photo, as if 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:50.800 with his father in law and the love of his life, 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:53.600 Hannah May. And really the truth of this photo is 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:56.000 that he was going to kill Hannah May, her father, 0:21:56.240 --> 0:22:03.040 and her entire family. And that's the part that you 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:07.960 just can't grasp. He had different plans for everybody involved, 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:16.000 and the photo you can see in their eyes that 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:19.280 this is not a genuine moment that anyone is enjoying 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:22.080 other than Jake Wagner, which is just very tragic knowing 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:28.960 what we know is to calm or this family here 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:34.040 again Special Prosecutor Angie Kanepa. So they had actual people 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:37.800 that lived near her reporting back is Iranian or men 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:40.920 around or etc. And they would be cor back to 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:44.240 Jake again. Jake's occession with Hannah wanting to get back 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:46.560 with her and mean jealous of relationship with over males, 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:50.159 and as we indicated to the Court and honor, this 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:53.080 was very reminiscent of what George did with the mother 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:57.920 of his child. George Wagner's ex wife was a woman 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:04.000 named Tabitha. Together, Tabitha and George Wagner had a baby boy, Angela. 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:06.480 Wagner fought tooth and nail to ensure she was in 0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:10.480 charge of the son, so much that she emotionally tormented 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:14.680 Tabitha until the young woman snapped and gave up custody 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:20.840 to the Wagner family. We first heard about this abusive 0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:23.760 relationship that Tabitha had with the Wagner family when we 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:27.320 met her sister Christina and mother Patricia a few years 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:30.479 ago in a trip that we took to Pike County. Ohio. 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:34.520 When we were there in Pike County, it was pretty 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:38.840 clear this was a pattern. Tabitha was the first target, 0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:43.479 and she was scared enough that she actually turned over 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:46.240 the rights of her son to the Wagner family, and 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:51.080 that perhaps the Wagners were at it again, and because 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:54.880 the Rodent family was fighting this custody that that's maybe 0:23:54.960 --> 0:24:02.159 why their lives were taken. We were there shooting a 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:06.840 documentary for NBC's Oxygen Network called The Rodin Family Murders, 0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:09.720 and when we started speaking to people who knew the 0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:13.679 Wagner family, what we uncovered was a pattern, a pattern 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:16.920 of not only abuse, but a pattern of the Wagner 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:21.000 family being obsessed with control of custody. And so while 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:23.120 we all thought hannah Me Rodin was the first victim 0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:25.120 of this, it turns out that was not the case, 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:29.280 and that this other family felt as if they too 0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:36.040 were the victims of the Wagner's obsession with control. And 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:39.080 I think it's worth noting that hannah Me Rodin and 0:24:39.240 --> 0:24:43.240 Tabitha where would be sister in laws, they were also 0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:48.240 really close friends and allies, and ultimately they were both 0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:52.639 alleged victims of the exact same family of abusers, the Wagners. 0:24:57.720 --> 0:25:00.760 Tabitha's sister spoke to us at length last season, and 0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:04.359 now for the first time ever, her mother, Patricia, has 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:07.600 also agreed to speak on the podcast as well. And 0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:11.720 keep in mind, we now know that Tabitha's mother, Patricia 0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:15.840 is really at the center of the trials ahead. What 0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:18.560 we found is that their lives also may have been 0:25:18.600 --> 0:25:22.119 in jeopardy had Tabitha not signed away her rights to 0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:25.879 the Wagner family. It seems like it might have been 0:25:25.960 --> 0:25:30.280 possible that they too could have been murdered. It's a 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:36.159 very chilling thought. Again, Angie Kaneppa on the Wagner's mistreatment 0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:39.600 of Tabitha. They would meet as a family and take 0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:42.080 votes before they decided what they would do. That would 0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:44.280 range from where they were going to live down to 0:25:44.920 --> 0:25:48.840 the most intimate details between a husband and wife, for instance, 0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:54.159 intimate relations between George and Tabitha. Angela involved herself in that, 0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:57.680 so there was literally nothing that was off limits. Everything 0:25:57.800 --> 0:26:02.080 was done as a family unit. That sinking. Angela Wagner 0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:05.399 was even involved in the most intimate details between a 0:26:05.520 --> 0:26:12.800 husband and wife. They ultimately made the mother of George's 0:26:12.920 --> 0:26:18.119 child signed over entire custody to George, with the agreement 0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:22.520 that Tabitha could visit the child if and when the 0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:29.200 Wagner said that she could. Angela has admitted that she 0:26:29.440 --> 0:26:32.159 was the one having in social media that the reason 0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:36.240 she was paying some close attention to Tabitha's Facebook was 0:26:36.320 --> 0:26:40.800 because Tabitha was making noise about taking them to court 0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:46.080 to finally get standard visitation with her child that she 0:26:46.200 --> 0:26:48.879 had never been able to receive. So that was the 0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:52.000 reason they were doing that. But they just happened to 0:26:52.119 --> 0:26:58.280 see the conversation between Hannah and Tabitha's mother. This is 0:26:58.280 --> 0:27:01.159 a level of control that she has over her adult 0:27:01.240 --> 0:27:09.159 sons that is unparalleled. In Semmer two, the teens and 0:27:09.240 --> 0:27:11.720 there finding Facebook message to show out a person telling 0:27:11.760 --> 0:27:15.359 them that she and people have to tell me. Nurist 0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:19.840 was first seen by Angela teaching the Squeenchi later journey 0:27:19.840 --> 0:27:24.120 to Jade and the other hand of members. In this moment, 0:27:24.240 --> 0:27:27.080 while illegally spying on her daughter in law's social media, 0:27:27.560 --> 0:27:31.280