Speaker 1: The number one podcast is back. They're my relatives. I
Speaker 1: still love them. I pray that God forgives them. I
Speaker 1: pray that I'll see them in heaven. But here on
Speaker 1: earth eternity in jail is not long enough. Eight from
Speaker 1: the same family dead in rural southern Ohio. One family
Speaker 1: accused of killing members of another family. Just when we
Speaker 1: thought we knew what happened during the piked And Massacre,
Speaker 1: everything is turned upside down. I just so why something
Speaker 1: is not right? Was this truly about custody. I don't
Speaker 1: think he would kill her, but I think he would
Speaker 1: kill for her. Now, with childs on the horizon, new
Speaker 1: theories arise. There's like a good four or five places
Speaker 1: at Burndale. We're told he's lying because they're getting death
Speaker 1: threats behind bars. I would said to the jail house
Speaker 1: in Pike County could look money on their So it's
Speaker 1: not years aye for me. Why are we just learning
Speaker 1: about this now? This is one of the biggest pieces
Speaker 1: of physical evidence that we've had thus for. Just when
Speaker 1: we thought it couldn't get any stranger or darker, it has.
Speaker 1: This is the Pikes And Massacre, Season three, Episode one,
Speaker 1: Mother May I officers wearing body armor guarded Angela Wagner
Speaker 1: as she walked into a Pike County courtroom to admit,
Speaker 1: after years of denials, that she helped plan the murders
Speaker 1: of Hannah Roden and her family. On the warm and
Speaker 1: heavily humid afternoon of September tenth, twenty twenty one, in
Speaker 1: Pike County, Ohio, accused killer mother Angela Wagner, arrived in court.
Speaker 1: She was wearing black and white striped prison garb, and
Speaker 1: her hair, previously short and blonde, now hangs in a
Speaker 1: long brown curtain. Here's Judge Randy Deering. You're admitting for
Speaker 1: bargain your wife to requires beyond reason bad. Do you
Speaker 1: understand all those? Right? It's hard to hear, but that's
Speaker 1: Angelo Wagner admitting guilt. The mother accused in Ohio's most
Speaker 1: complex Amazone investigation has just reached a plea deal. As
Speaker 1: part of the deal, the aggravated murder charges against Wagner
Speaker 1: were dropped. She also agreed to testify against her family members.
Speaker 1: She will spend thirty years in prison and cannot apply
Speaker 1: for parole. Well the defendant the right to us understatements
Speaker 1: were very visit to April this year. In the usual,
Speaker 1: h and her family member is all inspired together to
Speaker 1: committees RNIC defenses specifically the entry agent homes and for
Speaker 1: different locations in order to kill me. Good time yeah,
Speaker 1: the defendant and the statement they joined recommendation to thirty
Speaker 1: years in prison. Angel Joe Wagoner did unlovely and was
Speaker 1: pursed to commit everybody murder was another person who were persons,
Speaker 1: so her specific targets of the Wagers so sadly were
Speaker 1: killed simply because they happened to be there. It's not
Speaker 1: clear which of the eight victims were targets and which,
Speaker 1: as Angie Kaneppa said, were killed simply because they happened
Speaker 1: to be there. Was there a kill list and if so,
Speaker 1: were others just caught by happenstance. In the mayhem of
Speaker 1: the Wagner's murder spree, she was aware that night they
Speaker 1: walked out on the floor twenty and sixteen, whom they
Speaker 1: were going and what they were going to do. They're
Speaker 1: going to try to cover up their involvement in affords
Speaker 1: as well. Betters Tress bass Into eighty two restners were
Speaker 1: found with the attracted Hilda. In all, Angela Wagner pled
Speaker 1: guilty to fourteen charges, including conspiracy to commit murder, burglary,
Speaker 1: possession of firearms, tampering with evidence, forgery, and engaging in
Speaker 1: a pattern of corrupt activity. We now know that the
Speaker 1: Knight of the murderers, Angela Wagner, was at home watching
Speaker 1: her two grandchildren while the others allegedly went out on
Speaker 1: a kill spring m Courtney Armstrong a television producer at
Speaker 1: Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. In the
Speaker 1: three hundred and one days since our last episode aired,
Speaker 1: there have been several significant court hearings. The biggest yet
Speaker 1: an unexpected appearance by accused killer mother herself, Angela Wagner.
Speaker 1: She's the second accused Wagner member to plead out. Here's
Speaker 1: Stephanie and Jeff speaking with forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan
Speaker 1: and journalist Angeanette Levy about Angela's plea deal. I was
Speaker 1: surprised because apparently she's eligible for release after serving thirty years.
Speaker 1: So who wouldn't take that because then she can possibly
Speaker 1: and I say possibly, because she may not live that
Speaker 1: long one day get out of prison. And this is
Speaker 1: a huge revelation. I mean, for three years now, we've
Speaker 1: talked about the four core Wagoners being at every Rodan
Speaker 1: home the night of the murders, all potentially even being
Speaker 1: trigger polars, And to find out, Angela is now kind
Speaker 1: of pulling the rug out from under that story and
Speaker 1: saying that she was in fact actually at home, presumably
Speaker 1: watching the children, as her husband and two sons were
Speaker 1: out murdering the eight Rodan family members. Is a big
Speaker 1: shift in how that night played out. That is a
Speaker 1: very low sentence for somebody who, by her own admission,
Speaker 1: is saying that she plotted plan to murder eight people.
Speaker 1: I knew full well that they were leaving the house
Speaker 1: allegedly to murder that night, so she stayed home in
Speaker 1: babysat and just waited for them to get home. My
Speaker 1: thought is, she doesn't have to be in the room
Speaker 1: pulling a trigger here. There have been people that have
Speaker 1: gotten the needle over the years for being a planner,
Speaker 1: a facilitator, if you will, of a broader arching theme.
Speaker 1: She knows what she's involved in, and she'd better be
Speaker 1: thinking her lucky stars. You know, there's thirty years that
Speaker 1: she's giving. Maybe she wasn't physically there. She was there, though,
Speaker 1: I mean, it makes you wonder she's out going to
Speaker 1: walmarts and by the shoes for her kids to go.
Speaker 1: Do it like how a mom buys her kids shoes
Speaker 1: for the first day of school, and now she's getting off,
Speaker 1: probably with the lightest sentence. Did she have the wherewithal
Speaker 1: to see that maybe if I stay home, my hands
Speaker 1: are clean or much cleaner than the rest of my family.
Speaker 1: If Angela Wagner was looking to protect her family and
Speaker 1: her son's daughter, why would she possibly send her sons
Speaker 1: out to commit murder, They too could possibly be killed.
Speaker 1: You don't have to whitewash this in any way. She
Speaker 1: was there, you know. We talked about the boots which
Speaker 1: are going to come into play, I think, and we
Speaker 1: talked about the weapons that were utilized and how the
Speaker 1: setups on those were. She may not have had a
Speaker 1: gun in her hand, but she was there in more
Speaker 1: ways than one. It's very possible she is leaving one
Speaker 1: of her sons her dead to take the hit for her.
Speaker 1: That's even more demanded. She also was the shopper and
Speaker 1: involved in a lot of the planning of this, and
Speaker 1: I can say that now because she's admitted to it.
Speaker 1: You know, she's not accused anymore. She's pleading guilty. Although
Speaker 1: one interesting legal point is that Angela and Jake Wagner
Speaker 1: have to testify to the satisfaction of the prosecution or
Speaker 1: all four of their death sentences are back on the table.
Speaker 1: That means, for an extreme example, if Angela and Jake
Speaker 1: plead the fifth or do not testify to something that
Speaker 1: the prosecution believes that they know according to the deal
Speaker 1: they've made, this negates the plea deal. What a show
Speaker 1: this court appearance will be so for the first time.
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, the accused father, George Wagner, the accused eldest son,
Speaker 1: both now are moving forward with their trials, and ultimately
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner, the youngest son, and now mom Angela Wagner,
Speaker 1: will testify against them in front of them ida eye,
Speaker 1: and if the stories don't add up, they all could
Speaker 1: be looking at death sentences. It basically means that Angela
Speaker 1: and Jake Wagner better bring the goods to the trial.
Speaker 1: According to Angela Wagner's testimony, her family purchased quite a
Speaker 1: few things to prepare for this murder. Special shoes from Walmart, ammunition,
Speaker 1: a magazine clip, brass catchers and a bug detector. And
Speaker 1: a bug detector is something that detects signals admitted from cameras,
Speaker 1: which would help figure out if there were surveillance cameras.
Speaker 1: So there was clearly a lot of thought and preparation
Speaker 1: for this murder. This was not a crime of passion.
Speaker 1: Here Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa further describing the Wagner's alleged
Speaker 1: planning of the murders, specific purchases they made and actions
Speaker 1: they took to cover up the crime. The foes retire
Speaker 1: together an autosis and defended to a part in that
Speaker 1: as well as making various purchases to accomplish people there
Speaker 1: needed to phones in all victions and cameras and others
Speaker 1: to be able to additionally, to destroy those items before
Speaker 1: acutis to manor after planning for mast committee a tamasides
Speaker 1: and be carrying the commiside out. Four defendend time tribut
Speaker 1: asking others or to be dishonest with us actually admitted
Speaker 1: to purchasings are him laying much the events if they
Speaker 1: were meant to help the other three good events and
Speaker 1: carrying out the crimes such as which defends people to
Speaker 1: be able to call for help. The thought of the
Speaker 1: jammers is so horrifying. I mean, the forethought that would
Speaker 1: go into disabling the Rodents family's phones so that they
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to call for help as they were
Speaker 1: being shot to death is really just a very scary visual.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine horror hits your house. You're fighting for
Speaker 1: your life, the people you love are being murdered, and
Speaker 1: the murderers are coming for you next, and you can
Speaker 1: finally get to the phone, and now the phones are
Speaker 1: jammed and you can't even call nine one one. It's
Speaker 1: anybody's worst nightmare. It's a nightmare scenario and then a
Speaker 1: nightmare within that. We know, for example, little Chris was
Speaker 1: able to hide for some time during the murders. It
Speaker 1: makes you wonder did he have access to a cell
Speaker 1: phone or a house phone and tried to call for help?
Speaker 1: And couldn't you get through the scariest thought imaginable. When
Speaker 1: we first started covering this, it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: Ninja's in the night and it was all no one
Speaker 1: could possibly figure out who did this? They were so skilled?
Speaker 1: Whoever did this murder? Now we know it's pretty sloppy.
Speaker 1: Did they just get lucky for two years. There were
Speaker 1: shell casings left at the scene. That's how these people
Speaker 1: get caught. They make mistakes, they don't cover all of
Speaker 1: their tracks. This is one of the biggest murder cases
Speaker 1: in Ohio's history, if not the biggest. So here we
Speaker 1: are two plea deals, many motions, and two remaining trials ahead.
Speaker 1: Is it possible that Angela Wagner orchestrated the plan to
Speaker 1: murder other mothers in front of their children? And if so,
Speaker 1: how could a mother create a plan that would turn
Speaker 1: her own sons into killers. Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan
Speaker 1: remembers driving past the house where the Wagner family lived.
Speaker 1: I remember traveling out to that home that they all shared,
Speaker 1: that farmhouse. It made me think, you know, for that
Speaker 1: moment time when I'm you know, traveling through that little
Speaker 1: lane in front of the home, you sit there and
Speaker 1: you kind of consider it, you know. I remember slowing
Speaker 1: down the car and just kind of staring at it,
Speaker 1: looking at it, you know, set there and that it's
Speaker 1: a beautiful backdrop, you know, the fence and the greenery
Speaker 1: behind it, and you're thinking about, you know, what kind
Speaker 1: of plannings going on around the kitchen table. They're all
Speaker 1: party to this, and it just becomes absolutely insidious. And
Speaker 1: it seemed impossible to imagine that they were having murderer meetings.
Speaker 1: We were speculating about that and it seemed impossible. But
Speaker 1: now we do know that to be a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: if we believe everything that's been said so far by
Speaker 1: Jake and Angela. Yeah, I agree. You start talking about conspiracy,
Speaker 1: you gotta have a meeting. You know, you gotta have
Speaker 1: a meeting. It's a collaborative effort. You know, they had meetings.
Speaker 1: Trust me. I don't know if anybody get minutes, but
Speaker 1: they had meetings. Unique to this case is that there
Speaker 1: are so many mothers involved on all sides. Three mothers
Speaker 1: were murdered that night, including beloved matriarch, thirty seven year
Speaker 1: old victim Dana Roden. Dana Roden was returning home from
Speaker 1: working a double shift as a nurse that faithful night.
Speaker 1: She was shot five times in the head, four in
Speaker 1: the side of the head, and once under her chin.
Speaker 1: Dana Roden lived on Union Hill Road with her nineteen
Speaker 1: year old daughter, victim Hanname Roden. Hanname Roden shared a
Speaker 1: two and a half year old daughter with admitted murderer
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner. This child is said to be at the
Speaker 1: center of this story. Hannah may Rodin had also given
Speaker 1: birth just five days prior and was holding her newborn
Speaker 1: when she was shot fice in the head. We should
Speaker 1: remind you that there are two Hannah's in this story. Admittedly,
Speaker 1: we know the least about mother and victim, twenty year
Speaker 1: old Hannah Gilly. She had long blonde hair, were dark
Speaker 1: framed eyeglasses, and hoped to start a daycare. She and
Speaker 1: her fiance eldest son and victim Frankie Rodin, were murdered
Speaker 1: in their bed in front of their six month old
Speaker 1: and Frankie's three year old son. The children were found
Speaker 1: alive at the scenes. Hannah Gilly was shot five times
Speaker 1: in the head, once through the eye. To add another
Speaker 1: layer to that's already complicated story, Hannah Gilly was the
Speaker 1: sister of Charlie Gilly. Charlie Gilly was the guy Hannah
Speaker 1: may Rodin started dating after her split from Jake Wagner.
Speaker 1: So the relationship between Hannah Gilly's brother, Charlie Gilly, and
Speaker 1: Hannah may Roden feels significant to the story because it
Speaker 1: was the first relationship that Hannah Rodin really got into
Speaker 1: after her split from Jake Wagner. And of course there's
Speaker 1: no way to know this for sure, or at least
Speaker 1: until the trials happened, but it makes you wonder if
Speaker 1: Hannah Gilly was shot so many times five to be specific,
Speaker 1: because Jake Wagner felt some type of way about her
Speaker 1: brother's relationship with Hannah May We're going to take a break.
Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. On May second, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two, a mere three weeks before this episode is airing,
Speaker 1: there was another court appearance. This was emotions hearing between
Speaker 1: the prosecution, an accused old his son, George Wagner the
Speaker 1: fourth defense team. It's the latest turn in Ohio's largest
Speaker 1: homicide investigation. Attorneys for George Wagner the Fourth say there
Speaker 1: is proof he did not kill any of the eight victims.
Speaker 1: Attorneys for the oldest Wagner's son are now asking for
Speaker 1: murder charges to be dropped. The hearing revealed even more
Speaker 1: details of the Wagner's time leading up to the murders,
Speaker 1: the night itself, and the aftermath. There was a specific
Speaker 1: focus on how the Wagner family treated women who entered
Speaker 1: their fold, beginning with victim Hanname Rodin, Jake Wagner's former
Speaker 1: girlfriend and mother of his child. The court lays out
Speaker 1: how Hanname was manipulated, abused, and controlled, all with Angela
Speaker 1: at the helm. Thank you. This is State of Ohio
Speaker 1: playoff versus George Washington Wagner the fourth defender. The case
Speaker 1: number twenty eighteen S one fifty five. Today's May second,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, and they hearing. We have a hearing
Speaker 1: schedule one motions today. The defendant was present in court. Attorneys,
Speaker 1: the record should reflect to the defendish appearing to day,
Speaker 1: and so though you clothed in visible restraints. The five
Speaker 1: foot nine George Wagner the Fourth is thickly built, with
Speaker 1: green eyes and thinning brown hair. He wears the same
Speaker 1: clothes to each court appearance, a button down with a
Speaker 1: black vest over it. George Wagner sits flanked by his
Speaker 1: two attorneys, largely keeping his eyes lowered to the desk
Speaker 1: in front of him. Here again, Special Prosecutor Angakanepa, I
Speaker 1: should talk about what we believe people were arching think
Speaker 1: of this criminal enterprise. It's kind of the all for
Speaker 1: one and one raw right, they functioned as a family unit,
Speaker 1: so part of that was control over the grandchildren. In
Speaker 1: the next the defendant son and Jake Starr also when
Speaker 1: Jake hold would be this unborn child at the time,
Speaker 1: so in their reaction to when they lose control of that,
Speaker 1: there obviously also was some financial purpose behind some of
Speaker 1: what they did. Right, they were homeschooled, very insular. You
Speaker 1: did not have people going off and doing things on
Speaker 1: their own. So as far as the defendant and the
Speaker 1: relationship with Hannah, this involves domestic violence towards Hannah. When
Speaker 1: we look back at Hanname Roden's social media posts and
Speaker 1: the months leading up to her murder, it's clear she
Speaker 1: was crying out for help. In one post, she states,
Speaker 1: quote end domestic violence, live a happier life. Here again
Speaker 1: Angie Kneppa further outlining the length the Wagoners went through
Speaker 1: to attempt to secure Hanname Rodent's child. We do have
Speaker 1: admissions on the part of Jay as to pushing her
Speaker 1: up against the wall and basically having his arm in
Speaker 1: a position that it was choking her hairways, we'd have
Speaker 1: witnesses to him chasing her in a vehicle after getting
Speaker 1: upset with her one day, his controlling nature towards Hannah,
Speaker 1: including that got limited to dictating every aspect in regard
Speaker 1: to their shared child. That continued writing up until Hannah
Speaker 1: was killed. His controlling nature towards Hannah regarding the second child,
Speaker 1: including but not limited to telling her not to disclose
Speaker 1: the child's pactual father that it was his child. Because
Speaker 1: Hannah was very forthright with Jake and told him that
Speaker 1: it was not his child, he tried to get her
Speaker 1: to agree to not tell the actual father that the
Speaker 1: child was that person's child, offering to give her money
Speaker 1: to put his name on their certificate, trying to give
Speaker 1: vince her to move to Alaska with the whole family,
Speaker 1: and suggesting that they raise that child alongside your sheer child,
Speaker 1: as if the child was the defendant. The father of
Speaker 1: the baby, Angie Kneppa is referring to as Charlie Gilly,
Speaker 1: who had just heard about Charlie Gilly dated Hanname rodin
Speaker 1: the summer before she was murdered. He was later proven
Speaker 1: to be the father of her five day old. Here's
Speaker 1: Stephanie and Jeff. This is the story as old as time,
Speaker 1: and we hear it a lot Unfortunately, jealousy plus rage
Speaker 1: often equals death, and this case seems to be no
Speaker 1: different in that regard. Honestly, it's a young mom. How
Speaker 1: do you murder somebody in that way straight to the face.
Speaker 1: It seems as though there has to be something more
Speaker 1: personal to this, you know, we recently came across some
Speaker 1: personal photographs that were shared with us, one of which
Speaker 1: is particularly haunting. It shows Hannah May Rodin in the
Speaker 1: hospital right after a giving birth to her baby. She's
Speaker 1: sitting on her hospital bed next to her father, also victim,
Speaker 1: Chris Rodin Senior, and she's holding her baby and wedge
Speaker 1: between them is now who we know to be a murderer,
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner, sitting between them, and he is smiling ear
Speaker 1: to ear as though in a family photo, as if
Speaker 1: with his father in law and the love of his life,
Speaker 1: Hannah May. And really the truth of this photo is
Speaker 1: that he was going to kill Hannah May, her father,
Speaker 1: and her entire family. And that's the part that you
Speaker 1: just can't grasp. He had different plans for everybody involved,
Speaker 1: and the photo you can see in their eyes that
Speaker 1: this is not a genuine moment that anyone is enjoying
Speaker 1: other than Jake Wagner, which is just very tragic knowing
Speaker 1: what we know is to calm or this family here
Speaker 1: again Special Prosecutor Angie Kanepa. So they had actual people
Speaker 1: that lived near her reporting back is Iranian or men
Speaker 1: around or etc. And they would be cor back to
Speaker 1: Jake again. Jake's occession with Hannah wanting to get back
Speaker 1: with her and mean jealous of relationship with over males,
Speaker 1: and as we indicated to the Court and honor, this
Speaker 1: was very reminiscent of what George did with the mother
Speaker 1: of his child. George Wagner's ex wife was a woman
Speaker 1: named Tabitha. Together, Tabitha and George Wagner had a baby boy, Angela.
Speaker 1: Wagner fought tooth and nail to ensure she was in
Speaker 1: charge of the son, so much that she emotionally tormented
Speaker 1: Tabitha until the young woman snapped and gave up custody
Speaker 1: to the Wagner family. We first heard about this abusive
Speaker 1: relationship that Tabitha had with the Wagner family when we
Speaker 1: met her sister Christina and mother Patricia a few years
Speaker 1: ago in a trip that we took to Pike County. Ohio.
Speaker 1: When we were there in Pike County, it was pretty
Speaker 1: clear this was a pattern. Tabitha was the first target,
Speaker 1: and she was scared enough that she actually turned over
Speaker 1: the rights of her son to the Wagner family, and
Speaker 1: that perhaps the Wagners were at it again, and because
Speaker 1: the Rodent family was fighting this custody that that's maybe
Speaker 1: why their lives were taken. We were there shooting a
Speaker 1: documentary for NBC's Oxygen Network called The Rodin Family Murders,
Speaker 1: and when we started speaking to people who knew the
Speaker 1: Wagner family, what we uncovered was a pattern, a pattern
Speaker 1: of not only abuse, but a pattern of the Wagner
Speaker 1: family being obsessed with control of custody. And so while
Speaker 1: we all thought hannah Me Rodin was the first victim
Speaker 1: of this, it turns out that was not the case,
Speaker 1: and that this other family felt as if they too
Speaker 1: were the victims of the Wagner's obsession with control. And
Speaker 1: I think it's worth noting that hannah Me Rodin and
Speaker 1: Tabitha where would be sister in laws, they were also
Speaker 1: really close friends and allies, and ultimately they were both
Speaker 1: alleged victims of the exact same family of abusers, the Wagners.
Speaker 1: Tabitha's sister spoke to us at length last season, and
Speaker 1: now for the first time ever, her mother, Patricia, has
Speaker 1: also agreed to speak on the podcast as well. And
Speaker 1: keep in mind, we now know that Tabitha's mother, Patricia
Speaker 1: is really at the center of the trials ahead. What
Speaker 1: we found is that their lives also may have been
Speaker 1: in jeopardy had Tabitha not signed away her rights to
Speaker 1: the Wagner family. It seems like it might have been
Speaker 1: possible that they too could have been murdered. It's a
Speaker 1: very chilling thought. Again, Angie Kaneppa on the Wagner's mistreatment
Speaker 1: of Tabitha. They would meet as a family and take
Speaker 1: votes before they decided what they would do. That would
Speaker 1: range from where they were going to live down to
Speaker 1: the most intimate details between a husband and wife, for instance,
Speaker 1: intimate relations between George and Tabitha. Angela involved herself in that,
Speaker 1: so there was literally nothing that was off limits. Everything
Speaker 1: was done as a family unit. That sinking. Angela Wagner
Speaker 1: was even involved in the most intimate details between a
Speaker 1: husband and wife. They ultimately made the mother of George's
Speaker 1: child signed over entire custody to George, with the agreement
Speaker 1: that Tabitha could visit the child if and when the
Speaker 1: Wagner said that she could. Angela has admitted that she
Speaker 1: was the one having in social media that the reason
Speaker 1: she was paying some close attention to Tabitha's Facebook was
Speaker 1: because Tabitha was making noise about taking them to court
Speaker 1: to finally get standard visitation with her child that she
Speaker 1: had never been able to receive. So that was the
Speaker 1: reason they were doing that. But they just happened to
Speaker 1: see the conversation between Hannah and Tabitha's mother. This is
Speaker 1: a level of control that she has over her adult
Speaker 1: sons that is unparalleled. In Semmer two, the teens and
Speaker 1: there finding Facebook message to show out a person telling
Speaker 1: them that she and people have to tell me. Nurist
Speaker 1: was first seen by Angela teaching the Squeenchi later journey
Speaker 1: to Jade and the other hand of members. In this moment,
Speaker 1: while illegally spying on her daughter in law's social media,
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner intercepts a message from Hanname roading to Patricia.
Speaker 1: Hanname stated that she would never sign custody papers ever,
Speaker 1: writing quote, they will have to kill me first. Was
Speaker 1: this the moment that sealed the fate of the eight
Speaker 1: soon to be victims. Let's stop here for another break.
Speaker 1: Two months later, I resign yourself. Evidence of the virus
Speaker 1: is homicide. In four months after, reporter Antonette Leavy a
Speaker 1: few kind of looked at the big picture and looked
Speaker 1: at all of the details and what we had been
Speaker 1: able to learn about. You know how this whole alleged
Speaker 1: plan unfolded with Angela Wagner having access to Hannah's Facebook
Speaker 1: account and seeing the message she had exchanged with Tabitha's mother,
Speaker 1: you know, saying they'd have to kill me first, And
Speaker 1: according to the prosecutors, Angela shows that to Jake and
Speaker 1: then the whole plan unfolds from there. So they're the
Speaker 1: driving forces. She's pleaded guilty to basically hacking into these
Speaker 1: Facebook accounts and monitoring these people. There was a lot
Speaker 1: of planning that went into this. I mean, she was
Speaker 1: heavily involved, although she wasn't in the room according to
Speaker 1: Jake and according to her, somebody had to stay home
Speaker 1: with the children, right. This is based on their collective
Speaker 1: shared suspicion of anyone outside of their family and the
Speaker 1: safety and well being of the children that George had
Speaker 1: and Jake had defending in his family, preventing Tabitha from
Speaker 1: contacting her family during the time she resided with Defending
Speaker 1: his family. She will tell you that I believe she
Speaker 1: was allowed to call her mother one day, I remember
Speaker 1: Mother's birthday or Thunder's Day. Last season, we heard from
Speaker 1: Tabitha's sister, Christina, who explained to us the abuse that
Speaker 1: Tabitha went through while living with the Wagner family. This
Speaker 1: included tracking her movements, emotionally abusing her, verbally assaulting her,
Speaker 1: making her feel less. Then and ultimately, Tabitha was forced
Speaker 1: to make a dramatic escape from the Wagner home. Even
Speaker 1: at the time, we were not aware of quite how
Speaker 1: intertwined Tabitha and Victor Hanname rode and were until now,
Speaker 1: as Moore is coming out about the months leading up
Speaker 1: to the murders, Tabitha's name is really a part of
Speaker 1: this story in a big way. Defending is mainly threatening
Speaker 1: to shoot Tabitha on the last night she was signed
Speaker 1: with them, before fleeing for her life, never to return
Speaker 1: to the residents. Defending and Codefendants having Tabitha's child being
Speaker 1: heard to considered Angela as his mother, spying on her
Speaker 1: through surreptitious means, including it been a limited shoe, accessing
Speaker 1: both her and her mother's social media accounts, and having
Speaker 1: mothers spy on her and get back to them. They
Speaker 1: actually tried to enlist Hannah May while Panamee was alive,
Speaker 1: to get information that Tabitha might disclose to her and
Speaker 1: report it back to them again. Paul to maintain custody
Speaker 1: and control of the children. Defendant in this codefend is
Speaker 1: taking actions to prevent Tabitha for being able to regain custy,
Speaker 1: including beat limited to try and keep the child from
Speaker 1: her for more than a year so that they could
Speaker 1: claim abandonment. That was their distinct state for doing that.
Speaker 1: As we just heard, the Wagners tried to manipulate Hannah
Speaker 1: Me and Tabitha for their own means. The two young
Speaker 1: women were both in near identical situations and were very close.
Speaker 1: Here's Tabitha's sister, Christina. They were best friends. Whenever Hannah
Speaker 1: was basically leaving Jake and all that, getting out of
Speaker 1: Angela's brass, she was talking to my sister about how
Speaker 1: to do it, and my sister told her that she
Speaker 1: had just left. She got tired of it. Before she
Speaker 1: had left, she asked my sister why she had left
Speaker 1: and all that, and she was upsettor at first because
Speaker 1: my sister had left her alone to deal with it
Speaker 1: all by herself. But where they were best friends, my
Speaker 1: sister took up for Hannah a lot, and she didn't
Speaker 1: have that support anymore. Whenever Hannah finally left, he was
Speaker 1: talking to my sister's tavvy that she was glad that
Speaker 1: she had left, and she had tried so hard for
Speaker 1: so long to work up the courage believe, and that
Speaker 1: she was really scared to do it, but she was
Speaker 1: glad that she did. Stephanie and Jeff spoke with reporter
Speaker 1: Angeanette Levy and death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. And if
Speaker 1: you think of the details of the case, they all
Speaker 1: signed the custody documents. Should Jake, Hannah or George be
Speaker 1: killed or die, Angela gets custody of the children. She
Speaker 1: sends them out fully knowing my boys and my husband
Speaker 1: and may be killed and I may be taking care
Speaker 1: and raising their children for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: To carry out this plan, I get chilled up. I
Speaker 1: hadn't even thought of that Internet. That is even more
Speaker 1: demented than I thought, because if she gets custody, specifically
Speaker 1: of Jake's daughter that he shared with Hannah, frankly, she
Speaker 1: never had a daughter of her own. Speaking for Angela,
Speaker 1: is this the granddaughter she never had? And is there
Speaker 1: a version of this where the greatest plot is to
Speaker 1: have everybody go away? I think to your point stuff
Speaker 1: the idea that she's not there. I think that's a
Speaker 1: more disgusting level to me that you know, here boys
Speaker 1: go forth and do as I've said at this moment
Speaker 1: in tom and that that's kind of the impetus behind this,
Speaker 1: and she kind of sends her minions out to do
Speaker 1: this thing for her that she's planned. So again this
Speaker 1: collective attempt, this strong desire con the enterprise to keep
Speaker 1: complete custody and control the minor children. Jake threatened Anna
Speaker 1: bad with violence, saying that he would tell her and
Speaker 1: her body would never be found before and again, this
Speaker 1: is a collective response. If there's nothing they do not
Speaker 1: even there was private affairs without the consent, for willingness
Speaker 1: and participation of the other members of his family. Speaking
Speaker 1: out for the first time on this podcast is Patricia,
Speaker 1: mother of Tabitha, the ex wife of accused eldest son
Speaker 1: George Wagner, the fourth Patricia's involvement is now known to
Speaker 1: be at the center of the entire case. Yes, I
Speaker 1: think she's guilty as being because I know the demeanor
Speaker 1: of Angelis. She tries to be the loving, fearing mother.
Speaker 1: But if you've seen the side of Angelis that I've seen,
Speaker 1: you could doubt that she was all fake. You could
Speaker 1: talk to Angela and the first thing you went through
Speaker 1: your mind as well, she's a cannoving bitch And if
Speaker 1: you had Tabla, that's why Tabsla limb I call her
Speaker 1: to Dane. After Tabby watch leaves George, she couldn't take
Speaker 1: Angela no more. For two years she lived with them
Speaker 1: and was not allowed to have any contact with me
Speaker 1: once whoever, because Angela didn't want her to. They even
Speaker 1: went as far as taken dabs of cell phone from her.
Speaker 1: So it's not hearsafe for me. Tabby wasn't afraid of George,
Speaker 1: Annah wasn't afraid of Jake. They were only afraid of Angela.
Speaker 1: But what we also know is that there are new
Speaker 1: theories that dispel all of these accusations. Everybody thinks all
Speaker 1: the bad stuff happens in the big cities, but the
Speaker 1: devil works everywhere. Could Angela Wagner simply be lying? And
Speaker 1: just who is she? It's impossible to imagine that custody
Speaker 1: is the only thing. And in recent reports an interview
Speaker 1: as we've done, it seems as though there may be
Speaker 1: a larger plot in play. Stop miss a lie. I
Speaker 1: just feel like something is not right. They're like a
Speaker 1: good four or five places that burned out. This is
Speaker 1: one of the biggest pieces of physical evidence that we've
Speaker 1: had thus for There's a lot more secrets to uncover
Speaker 1: in Pike County that involved the Wagner family and the
Speaker 1: Rodent family. They drug the whole family through the mud.
Speaker 1: Not use the mud, they drug us through Hey, people
Speaker 1: who could not or would not speak out before have
Speaker 1: come out of the woodwork. We know the end. We've
Speaker 1: got some idea what happened in the middle. I want
Speaker 1: to know about the beginning. When did the switch flip
Speaker 1: to where the only resolution was to go and kill
Speaker 1: them all? More on that this season. If you haven't
Speaker 1: listened to seasons one and two. Last week's How We
Speaker 1: Got Here Episode we'll catch you up. For more information
Speaker 1: on case photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
Speaker 1: The Piked and Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Speaker 1: Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed
Speaker 1: by Jeff Tis, music by Jared Aston, audio mixing by
Speaker 1: Ken Novak. The Piked and Massacre is a production of
Speaker 1: Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.