1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: The number one podcast is back. They're my relatives. I 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: still love them. I pray that God forgives them. I 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: pray that I'll see them in heaven. But here on 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: earth eternity in jail is not long enough. Eight from 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: the same family dead in rural southern Ohio. One family 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,319 Speaker 1: accused of killing members of another family. Just when we 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: thought we knew what happened during the piked And Massacre, 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: everything is turned upside down. I just so why something 9 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: is not right? Was this truly about custody. I don't 10 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: think he would kill her, but I think he would 11 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:48,319 Speaker 1: kill for her. Now, with childs on the horizon, new 12 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: theories arise. There's like a good four or five places 13 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: at Burndale. We're told he's lying because they're getting death 14 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: threats behind bars. I would said to the jail house 15 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: in Pike County could look money on their So it's 16 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: not years aye for me. Why are we just learning 17 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: about this now? This is one of the biggest pieces 18 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: of physical evidence that we've had thus for. Just when 19 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: we thought it couldn't get any stranger or darker, it has. 20 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: This is the Pikes And Massacre, Season three, Episode one, 21 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: Mother May I officers wearing body armor guarded Angela Wagner 22 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: as she walked into a Pike County courtroom to admit, 23 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: after years of denials, that she helped plan the murders 24 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: of Hannah Roden and her family. On the warm and 25 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: heavily humid afternoon of September tenth, twenty twenty one, in 26 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: Pike County, Ohio, accused killer mother Angela Wagner, arrived in court. 27 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: She was wearing black and white striped prison garb, and 28 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: her hair, previously short and blonde, now hangs in a 29 00:01:55,080 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: long brown curtain. Here's Judge Randy Deering. You're admitting for 30 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: bargain your wife to requires beyond reason bad. Do you 31 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: understand all those? Right? It's hard to hear, but that's 32 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: Angelo Wagner admitting guilt. The mother accused in Ohio's most 33 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 1: complex Amazone investigation has just reached a plea deal. As 34 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: part of the deal, the aggravated murder charges against Wagner 35 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: were dropped. She also agreed to testify against her family members. 36 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: She will spend thirty years in prison and cannot apply 37 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,839 Speaker 1: for parole. Well the defendant the right to us understatements 38 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: were very visit to April this year. In the usual, 39 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: h and her family member is all inspired together to 40 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: committees RNIC defenses specifically the entry agent homes and for 41 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: different locations in order to kill me. Good time yeah, 42 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: the defendant and the statement they joined recommendation to thirty 43 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: years in prison. Angel Joe Wagoner did unlovely and was 44 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: pursed to commit everybody murder was another person who were persons, 45 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: so her specific targets of the Wagers so sadly were 46 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: killed simply because they happened to be there. It's not 47 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: clear which of the eight victims were targets and which, 48 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: as Angie Kaneppa said, were killed simply because they happened 49 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: to be there. Was there a kill list and if so, 50 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: were others just caught by happenstance. In the mayhem of 51 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: the Wagner's murder spree, she was aware that night they 52 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: walked out on the floor twenty and sixteen, whom they 53 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: were going and what they were going to do. They're 54 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: going to try to cover up their involvement in affords 55 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: as well. Betters Tress bass Into eighty two restners were 56 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: found with the attracted Hilda. In all, Angela Wagner pled 57 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: guilty to fourteen charges, including conspiracy to commit murder, burglary, 58 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: possession of firearms, tampering with evidence, forgery, and engaging in 59 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: a pattern of corrupt activity. We now know that the 60 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: Knight of the murderers, Angela Wagner, was at home watching 61 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: her two grandchildren while the others allegedly went out on 62 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: a kill spring m Courtney Armstrong a television producer at 63 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. In the 64 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: three hundred and one days since our last episode aired, 65 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: there have been several significant court hearings. The biggest yet 66 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,799 Speaker 1: an unexpected appearance by accused killer mother herself, Angela Wagner. 67 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: She's the second accused Wagner member to plead out. Here's 68 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: Stephanie and Jeff speaking with forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan 69 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: and journalist Angeanette Levy about Angela's plea deal. I was 70 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:16,119 Speaker 1: surprised because apparently she's eligible for release after serving thirty years. 71 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: So who wouldn't take that because then she can possibly 72 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: and I say possibly, because she may not live that 73 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: long one day get out of prison. And this is 74 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: a huge revelation. I mean, for three years now, we've 75 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: talked about the four core Wagoners being at every Rodan 76 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: home the night of the murders, all potentially even being 77 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: trigger polars, And to find out, Angela is now kind 78 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: of pulling the rug out from under that story and 79 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: saying that she was in fact actually at home, presumably 80 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: watching the children, as her husband and two sons were 81 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: out murdering the eight Rodan family members. Is a big 82 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: shift in how that night played out. That is a 83 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: very low sentence for somebody who, by her own admission, 84 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: is saying that she plotted plan to murder eight people. 85 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: I knew full well that they were leaving the house 86 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: allegedly to murder that night, so she stayed home in 87 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: babysat and just waited for them to get home. My 88 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: thought is, she doesn't have to be in the room 89 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: pulling a trigger here. There have been people that have 90 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: gotten the needle over the years for being a planner, 91 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: a facilitator, if you will, of a broader arching theme. 92 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: She knows what she's involved in, and she'd better be 93 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: thinking her lucky stars. You know, there's thirty years that 94 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: she's giving. Maybe she wasn't physically there. She was there, though, 95 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: I mean, it makes you wonder she's out going to 96 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: walmarts and by the shoes for her kids to go. 97 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: Do it like how a mom buys her kids shoes 98 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: for the first day of school, and now she's getting off, 99 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: probably with the lightest sentence. Did she have the wherewithal 100 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: to see that maybe if I stay home, my hands 101 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: are clean or much cleaner than the rest of my family. 102 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: If Angela Wagner was looking to protect her family and 103 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: her son's daughter, why would she possibly send her sons 104 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: out to commit murder, They too could possibly be killed. 105 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: You don't have to whitewash this in any way. She 106 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: was there, you know. We talked about the boots which 107 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: are going to come into play, I think, and we 108 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: talked about the weapons that were utilized and how the 109 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: setups on those were. She may not have had a 110 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: gun in her hand, but she was there in more 111 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: ways than one. It's very possible she is leaving one 112 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: of her sons her dead to take the hit for her. 113 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: That's even more demanded. She also was the shopper and 114 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: involved in a lot of the planning of this, and 115 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: I can say that now because she's admitted to it. 116 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: You know, she's not accused anymore. She's pleading guilty. Although 117 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: one interesting legal point is that Angela and Jake Wagner 118 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: have to testify to the satisfaction of the prosecution or 119 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: all four of their death sentences are back on the table. 120 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: That means, for an extreme example, if Angela and Jake 121 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: plead the fifth or do not testify to something that 122 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: the prosecution believes that they know according to the deal 123 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: they've made, this negates the plea deal. What a show 124 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: this court appearance will be so for the first time. 125 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, the accused father, George Wagner, the accused eldest son, 126 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 1: both now are moving forward with their trials, and ultimately 127 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner, the youngest son, and now mom Angela Wagner, 128 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: will testify against them in front of them ida eye, 129 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: and if the stories don't add up, they all could 130 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 1: be looking at death sentences. It basically means that Angela 131 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: and Jake Wagner better bring the goods to the trial. 132 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: According to Angela Wagner's testimony, her family purchased quite a 133 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: few things to prepare for this murder. Special shoes from Walmart, ammunition, 134 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: a magazine clip, brass catchers and a bug detector. And 135 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: a bug detector is something that detects signals admitted from cameras, 136 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: which would help figure out if there were surveillance cameras. 137 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 1: So there was clearly a lot of thought and preparation 138 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: for this murder. This was not a crime of passion. 139 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: Here Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa further describing the Wagner's alleged 140 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: planning of the murders, specific purchases they made and actions 141 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: they took to cover up the crime. The foes retire 142 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: together an autosis and defended to a part in that 143 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 1: as well as making various purchases to accomplish people there 144 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: needed to phones in all victions and cameras and others 145 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: to be able to additionally, to destroy those items before 146 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: acutis to manor after planning for mast committee a tamasides 147 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: and be carrying the commiside out. Four defendend time tribut 148 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: asking others or to be dishonest with us actually admitted 149 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: to purchasings are him laying much the events if they 150 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: were meant to help the other three good events and 151 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: carrying out the crimes such as which defends people to 152 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: be able to call for help. The thought of the 153 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: jammers is so horrifying. I mean, the forethought that would 154 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: go into disabling the Rodents family's phones so that they 155 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to call for help as they were 156 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: being shot to death is really just a very scary visual. 157 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 1: Can you imagine horror hits your house. You're fighting for 158 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: your life, the people you love are being murdered, and 159 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: the murderers are coming for you next, and you can 160 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: finally get to the phone, and now the phones are 161 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: jammed and you can't even call nine one one. It's 162 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: anybody's worst nightmare. It's a nightmare scenario and then a 163 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: nightmare within that. We know, for example, little Chris was 164 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: able to hide for some time during the murders. It 165 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: makes you wonder did he have access to a cell 166 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: phone or a house phone and tried to call for help? 167 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 1: And couldn't you get through the scariest thought imaginable. When 168 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: we first started covering this, it was like, you know, 169 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: Ninja's in the night and it was all no one 170 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: could possibly figure out who did this? They were so skilled? 171 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: Whoever did this murder? Now we know it's pretty sloppy. 172 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: Did they just get lucky for two years. There were 173 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: shell casings left at the scene. That's how these people 174 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: get caught. They make mistakes, they don't cover all of 175 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: their tracks. This is one of the biggest murder cases 176 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: in Ohio's history, if not the biggest. So here we 177 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: are two plea deals, many motions, and two remaining trials ahead. 178 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: Is it possible that Angela Wagner orchestrated the plan to 179 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: murder other mothers in front of their children? And if so, 180 00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: how could a mother create a plan that would turn 181 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: her own sons into killers. Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan 182 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: remembers driving past the house where the Wagner family lived. 183 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: I remember traveling out to that home that they all shared, 184 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,839 Speaker 1: that farmhouse. It made me think, you know, for that 185 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: moment time when I'm you know, traveling through that little 186 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,599 Speaker 1: lane in front of the home, you sit there and 187 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: you kind of consider it, you know. I remember slowing 188 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 1: down the car and just kind of staring at it, 189 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 1: looking at it, you know, set there and that it's 190 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: a beautiful backdrop, you know, the fence and the greenery 191 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: behind it, and you're thinking about, you know, what kind 192 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: of plannings going on around the kitchen table. They're all 193 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: party to this, and it just becomes absolutely insidious. And 194 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: it seemed impossible to imagine that they were having murderer meetings. 195 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: We were speculating about that and it seemed impossible. But 196 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: now we do know that to be a matter of fact, 197 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: if we believe everything that's been said so far by 198 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: Jake and Angela. Yeah, I agree. You start talking about conspiracy, 199 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 1: you gotta have a meeting. You know, you gotta have 200 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: a meeting. It's a collaborative effort. You know, they had meetings. 201 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: Trust me. I don't know if anybody get minutes, but 202 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: they had meetings. Unique to this case is that there 203 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: are so many mothers involved on all sides. Three mothers 204 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: were murdered that night, including beloved matriarch, thirty seven year 205 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: old victim Dana Roden. Dana Roden was returning home from 206 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 1: working a double shift as a nurse that faithful night. 207 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: She was shot five times in the head, four in 208 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: the side of the head, and once under her chin. 209 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: Dana Roden lived on Union Hill Road with her nineteen 210 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: year old daughter, victim Hanname Roden. Hanname Roden shared a 211 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: two and a half year old daughter with admitted murderer 212 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner. This child is said to be at the 213 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 1: center of this story. Hannah may Rodin had also given 214 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 1: birth just five days prior and was holding her newborn 215 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: when she was shot fice in the head. We should 216 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: remind you that there are two Hannah's in this story. Admittedly, 217 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: we know the least about mother and victim, twenty year 218 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: old Hannah Gilly. She had long blonde hair, were dark 219 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: framed eyeglasses, and hoped to start a daycare. She and 220 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: her fiance eldest son and victim Frankie Rodin, were murdered 221 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: in their bed in front of their six month old 222 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: and Frankie's three year old son. The children were found 223 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: alive at the scenes. Hannah Gilly was shot five times 224 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: in the head, once through the eye. To add another 225 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: layer to that's already complicated story, Hannah Gilly was the 226 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: sister of Charlie Gilly. Charlie Gilly was the guy Hannah 227 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: may Rodin started dating after her split from Jake Wagner. 228 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: So the relationship between Hannah Gilly's brother, Charlie Gilly, and 229 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: Hannah may Roden feels significant to the story because it 230 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: was the first relationship that Hannah Rodin really got into 231 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: after her split from Jake Wagner. And of course there's 232 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: no way to know this for sure, or at least 233 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: until the trials happened, but it makes you wonder if 234 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: Hannah Gilly was shot so many times five to be specific, 235 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: because Jake Wagner felt some type of way about her 236 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: brother's relationship with Hannah May We're going to take a break. 237 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. On May second, twenty 238 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: twenty two, a mere three weeks before this episode is airing, 239 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: there was another court appearance. This was emotions hearing between 240 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: the prosecution, an accused old his son, George Wagner the 241 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: fourth defense team. It's the latest turn in Ohio's largest 242 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: homicide investigation. Attorneys for George Wagner the Fourth say there 243 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: is proof he did not kill any of the eight victims. 244 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: Attorneys for the oldest Wagner's son are now asking for 245 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: murder charges to be dropped. The hearing revealed even more 246 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: details of the Wagner's time leading up to the murders, 247 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: the night itself, and the aftermath. There was a specific 248 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: focus on how the Wagner family treated women who entered 249 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: their fold, beginning with victim Hanname Rodin, Jake Wagner's former 250 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: girlfriend and mother of his child. The court lays out 251 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: how Hanname was manipulated, abused, and controlled, all with Angela 252 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: at the helm. Thank you. This is State of Ohio 253 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: playoff versus George Washington Wagner the fourth defender. The case 254 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: number twenty eighteen S one fifty five. Today's May second, 255 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, and they hearing. We have a hearing 256 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:13,719 Speaker 1: schedule one motions today. The defendant was present in court. Attorneys, 257 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: the record should reflect to the defendish appearing to day, 258 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: and so though you clothed in visible restraints. The five 259 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: foot nine George Wagner the Fourth is thickly built, with 260 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: green eyes and thinning brown hair. He wears the same 261 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: clothes to each court appearance, a button down with a 262 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: black vest over it. George Wagner sits flanked by his 263 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: two attorneys, largely keeping his eyes lowered to the desk 264 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: in front of him. Here again, Special Prosecutor Angakanepa, I 265 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: should talk about what we believe people were arching think 266 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: of this criminal enterprise. It's kind of the all for 267 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: one and one raw right, they functioned as a family unit, 268 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: so part of that was control over the grandchildren. In 269 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: the next the defendant son and Jake Starr also when 270 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: Jake hold would be this unborn child at the time, 271 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: so in their reaction to when they lose control of that, 272 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: there obviously also was some financial purpose behind some of 273 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: what they did. Right, they were homeschooled, very insular. You 274 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: did not have people going off and doing things on 275 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: their own. So as far as the defendant and the 276 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: relationship with Hannah, this involves domestic violence towards Hannah. When 277 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: we look back at Hanname Roden's social media posts and 278 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: the months leading up to her murder, it's clear she 279 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: was crying out for help. In one post, she states, 280 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: quote end domestic violence, live a happier life. Here again 281 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: Angie Kneppa further outlining the length the Wagoners went through 282 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: to attempt to secure Hanname Rodent's child. We do have 283 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: admissions on the part of Jay as to pushing her 284 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: up against the wall and basically having his arm in 285 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: a position that it was choking her hairways, we'd have 286 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: witnesses to him chasing her in a vehicle after getting 287 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: upset with her one day, his controlling nature towards Hannah, 288 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: including that got limited to dictating every aspect in regard 289 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 1: to their shared child. That continued writing up until Hannah 290 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: was killed. His controlling nature towards Hannah regarding the second child, 291 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: including but not limited to telling her not to disclose 292 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: the child's pactual father that it was his child. Because 293 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: Hannah was very forthright with Jake and told him that 294 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:48,719 Speaker 1: it was not his child, he tried to get her 295 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: to agree to not tell the actual father that the 296 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 1: child was that person's child, offering to give her money 297 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: to put his name on their certificate, trying to give 298 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: vince her to move to Alaska with the whole family, 299 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: and suggesting that they raise that child alongside your sheer child, 300 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: as if the child was the defendant. The father of 301 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: the baby, Angie Kneppa is referring to as Charlie Gilly, 302 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: who had just heard about Charlie Gilly dated Hanname rodin 303 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: the summer before she was murdered. He was later proven 304 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: to be the father of her five day old. Here's 305 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: Stephanie and Jeff. This is the story as old as time, 306 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: and we hear it a lot Unfortunately, jealousy plus rage 307 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: often equals death, and this case seems to be no 308 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: different in that regard. Honestly, it's a young mom. How 309 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: do you murder somebody in that way straight to the face. 310 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: It seems as though there has to be something more 311 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: personal to this, you know, we recently came across some 312 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: personal photographs that were shared with us, one of which 313 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: is particularly haunting. It shows Hannah May Rodin in the 314 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: hospital right after a giving birth to her baby. She's 315 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: sitting on her hospital bed next to her father, also victim, 316 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: Chris Rodin Senior, and she's holding her baby and wedge 317 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: between them is now who we know to be a murderer, 318 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner, sitting between them, and he is smiling ear 319 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: to ear as though in a family photo, as if 320 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: with his father in law and the love of his life, 321 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: Hannah May. And really the truth of this photo is 322 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: that he was going to kill Hannah May, her father, 323 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: and her entire family. And that's the part that you 324 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: just can't grasp. He had different plans for everybody involved, 325 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: and the photo you can see in their eyes that 326 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: this is not a genuine moment that anyone is enjoying 327 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: other than Jake Wagner, which is just very tragic knowing 328 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: what we know is to calm or this family here 329 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: again Special Prosecutor Angie Kanepa. So they had actual people 330 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: that lived near her reporting back is Iranian or men 331 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: around or etc. And they would be cor back to 332 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: Jake again. Jake's occession with Hannah wanting to get back 333 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: with her and mean jealous of relationship with over males, 334 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: and as we indicated to the Court and honor, this 335 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: was very reminiscent of what George did with the mother 336 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: of his child. George Wagner's ex wife was a woman 337 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: named Tabitha. Together, Tabitha and George Wagner had a baby boy, Angela. 338 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: Wagner fought tooth and nail to ensure she was in 339 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: charge of the son, so much that she emotionally tormented 340 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: Tabitha until the young woman snapped and gave up custody 341 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: to the Wagner family. We first heard about this abusive 342 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: relationship that Tabitha had with the Wagner family when we 343 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: met her sister Christina and mother Patricia a few years 344 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,479 Speaker 1: ago in a trip that we took to Pike County. Ohio. 345 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: When we were there in Pike County, it was pretty 346 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: clear this was a pattern. Tabitha was the first target, 347 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,479 Speaker 1: and she was scared enough that she actually turned over 348 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: the rights of her son to the Wagner family, and 349 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: that perhaps the Wagners were at it again, and because 350 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: the Rodent family was fighting this custody that that's maybe 351 00:23:54,960 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: why their lives were taken. We were there shooting a 352 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: documentary for NBC's Oxygen Network called The Rodin Family Murders, 353 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: and when we started speaking to people who knew the 354 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: Wagner family, what we uncovered was a pattern, a pattern 355 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: of not only abuse, but a pattern of the Wagner 356 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: family being obsessed with control of custody. And so while 357 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: we all thought hannah Me Rodin was the first victim 358 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: of this, it turns out that was not the case, 359 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: and that this other family felt as if they too 360 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: were the victims of the Wagner's obsession with control. And 361 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: I think it's worth noting that hannah Me Rodin and 362 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: Tabitha where would be sister in laws, they were also 363 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: really close friends and allies, and ultimately they were both 364 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: alleged victims of the exact same family of abusers, the Wagners. 365 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: Tabitha's sister spoke to us at length last season, and 366 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: now for the first time ever, her mother, Patricia, has 367 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: also agreed to speak on the podcast as well. And 368 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: keep in mind, we now know that Tabitha's mother, Patricia 369 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: is really at the center of the trials ahead. What 370 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: we found is that their lives also may have been 371 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: in jeopardy had Tabitha not signed away her rights to 372 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: the Wagner family. It seems like it might have been 373 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: possible that they too could have been murdered. It's a 374 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: very chilling thought. Again, Angie Kaneppa on the Wagner's mistreatment 375 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: of Tabitha. They would meet as a family and take 376 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: votes before they decided what they would do. That would 377 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: range from where they were going to live down to 378 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: the most intimate details between a husband and wife, for instance, 379 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: intimate relations between George and Tabitha. Angela involved herself in that, 380 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 1: so there was literally nothing that was off limits. Everything 381 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: was done as a family unit. That sinking. Angela Wagner 382 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: was even involved in the most intimate details between a 383 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: husband and wife. They ultimately made the mother of George's 384 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 1: child signed over entire custody to George, with the agreement 385 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: that Tabitha could visit the child if and when the 386 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: Wagner said that she could. Angela has admitted that she 387 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: was the one having in social media that the reason 388 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: she was paying some close attention to Tabitha's Facebook was 389 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: because Tabitha was making noise about taking them to court 390 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: to finally get standard visitation with her child that she 391 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: had never been able to receive. So that was the 392 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: reason they were doing that. But they just happened to 393 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: see the conversation between Hannah and Tabitha's mother. This is 394 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: a level of control that she has over her adult 395 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: sons that is unparalleled. In Semmer two, the teens and 396 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: there finding Facebook message to show out a person telling 397 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: them that she and people have to tell me. Nurist 398 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: was first seen by Angela teaching the Squeenchi later journey 399 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 1: to Jade and the other hand of members. In this moment, 400 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: while illegally spying on her daughter in law's social media, 401 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: Angela Wagner intercepts a message from Hanname roading to Patricia. 402 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: Hanname stated that she would never sign custody papers ever, 403 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: writing quote, they will have to kill me first. Was 404 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: this the moment that sealed the fate of the eight 405 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 1: soon to be victims. Let's stop here for another break. 406 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: Two months later, I resign yourself. Evidence of the virus 407 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: is homicide. In four months after, reporter Antonette Leavy a 408 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: few kind of looked at the big picture and looked 409 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: at all of the details and what we had been 410 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: able to learn about. You know how this whole alleged 411 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: plan unfolded with Angela Wagner having access to Hannah's Facebook 412 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 1: account and seeing the message she had exchanged with Tabitha's mother, 413 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: you know, saying they'd have to kill me first, And 414 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: according to the prosecutors, Angela shows that to Jake and 415 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: then the whole plan unfolds from there. So they're the 416 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,959 Speaker 1: driving forces. She's pleaded guilty to basically hacking into these 417 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: Facebook accounts and monitoring these people. There was a lot 418 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: of planning that went into this. I mean, she was 419 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: heavily involved, although she wasn't in the room according to 420 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: Jake and according to her, somebody had to stay home 421 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: with the children, right. This is based on their collective 422 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: shared suspicion of anyone outside of their family and the 423 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: safety and well being of the children that George had 424 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: and Jake had defending in his family, preventing Tabitha from 425 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: contacting her family during the time she resided with Defending 426 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: his family. She will tell you that I believe she 427 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: was allowed to call her mother one day, I remember 428 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: Mother's birthday or Thunder's Day. Last season, we heard from 429 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: Tabitha's sister, Christina, who explained to us the abuse that 430 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: Tabitha went through while living with the Wagner family. This 431 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: included tracking her movements, emotionally abusing her, verbally assaulting her, 432 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: making her feel less. Then and ultimately, Tabitha was forced 433 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: to make a dramatic escape from the Wagner home. Even 434 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: at the time, we were not aware of quite how 435 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: intertwined Tabitha and Victor Hanname rode and were until now, 436 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: as Moore is coming out about the months leading up 437 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: to the murders, Tabitha's name is really a part of 438 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: this story in a big way. Defending is mainly threatening 439 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: to shoot Tabitha on the last night she was signed 440 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: with them, before fleeing for her life, never to return 441 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: to the residents. Defending and Codefendants having Tabitha's child being 442 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: heard to considered Angela as his mother, spying on her 443 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: through surreptitious means, including it been a limited shoe, accessing 444 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: both her and her mother's social media accounts, and having 445 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: mothers spy on her and get back to them. They 446 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: actually tried to enlist Hannah May while Panamee was alive, 447 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: to get information that Tabitha might disclose to her and 448 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: report it back to them again. Paul to maintain custody 449 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: and control of the children. Defendant in this codefend is 450 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: taking actions to prevent Tabitha for being able to regain custy, 451 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: including beat limited to try and keep the child from 452 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: her for more than a year so that they could 453 00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: claim abandonment. That was their distinct state for doing that. 454 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: As we just heard, the Wagners tried to manipulate Hannah 455 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: Me and Tabitha for their own means. The two young 456 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: women were both in near identical situations and were very close. 457 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: Here's Tabitha's sister, Christina. They were best friends. Whenever Hannah 458 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: was basically leaving Jake and all that, getting out of 459 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: Angela's brass, she was talking to my sister about how 460 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: to do it, and my sister told her that she 461 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: had just left. She got tired of it. Before she 462 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: had left, she asked my sister why she had left 463 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: and all that, and she was upsettor at first because 464 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: my sister had left her alone to deal with it 465 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: all by herself. But where they were best friends, my 466 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: sister took up for Hannah a lot, and she didn't 467 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: have that support anymore. Whenever Hannah finally left, he was 468 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: talking to my sister's tavvy that she was glad that 469 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: she had left, and she had tried so hard for 470 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: so long to work up the courage believe, and that 471 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: she was really scared to do it, but she was 472 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: glad that she did. Stephanie and Jeff spoke with reporter 473 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: Angeanette Levy and death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. And if 474 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: you think of the details of the case, they all 475 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: signed the custody documents. Should Jake, Hannah or George be 476 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: killed or die, Angela gets custody of the children. She 477 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: sends them out fully knowing my boys and my husband 478 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: and may be killed and I may be taking care 479 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: and raising their children for the rest of my life. 480 00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 1: To carry out this plan, I get chilled up. I 481 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: hadn't even thought of that Internet. That is even more 482 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: demented than I thought, because if she gets custody, specifically 483 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: of Jake's daughter that he shared with Hannah, frankly, she 484 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: never had a daughter of her own. Speaking for Angela, 485 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: is this the granddaughter she never had? And is there 486 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: a version of this where the greatest plot is to 487 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: have everybody go away? I think to your point stuff 488 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: the idea that she's not there. I think that's a 489 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: more disgusting level to me that you know, here boys 490 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: go forth and do as I've said at this moment 491 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: in tom and that that's kind of the impetus behind this, 492 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: and she kind of sends her minions out to do 493 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: this thing for her that she's planned. So again this 494 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: collective attempt, this strong desire con the enterprise to keep 495 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: complete custody and control the minor children. Jake threatened Anna 496 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: bad with violence, saying that he would tell her and 497 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: her body would never be found before and again, this 498 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: is a collective response. If there's nothing they do not 499 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: even there was private affairs without the consent, for willingness 500 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: and participation of the other members of his family. Speaking 501 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: out for the first time on this podcast is Patricia, 502 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: mother of Tabitha, the ex wife of accused eldest son 503 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: George Wagner, the fourth Patricia's involvement is now known to 504 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: be at the center of the entire case. Yes, I 505 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: think she's guilty as being because I know the demeanor 506 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: of Angelis. She tries to be the loving, fearing mother. 507 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,799 Speaker 1: But if you've seen the side of Angelis that I've seen, 508 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 1: you could doubt that she was all fake. You could 509 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: talk to Angela and the first thing you went through 510 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 1: your mind as well, she's a cannoving bitch And if 511 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: you had Tabla, that's why Tabsla limb I call her 512 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: to Dane. After Tabby watch leaves George, she couldn't take 513 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: Angela no more. For two years she lived with them 514 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: and was not allowed to have any contact with me 515 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 1: once whoever, because Angela didn't want her to. They even 516 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: went as far as taken dabs of cell phone from her. 517 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: So it's not hearsafe for me. Tabby wasn't afraid of George, 518 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: Annah wasn't afraid of Jake. They were only afraid of Angela. 519 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: But what we also know is that there are new 520 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 1: theories that dispel all of these accusations. Everybody thinks all 521 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: the bad stuff happens in the big cities, but the 522 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: devil works everywhere. Could Angela Wagner simply be lying? And 523 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: just who is she? It's impossible to imagine that custody 524 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: is the only thing. And in recent reports an interview 525 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: as we've done, it seems as though there may be 526 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 1: a larger plot in play. Stop miss a lie. I 527 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: just feel like something is not right. They're like a 528 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: good four or five places that burned out. This is 529 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: one of the biggest pieces of physical evidence that we've 530 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: had thus for There's a lot more secrets to uncover 531 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: in Pike County that involved the Wagner family and the 532 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 1: Rodent family. They drug the whole family through the mud. 533 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: Not use the mud, they drug us through Hey, people 534 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: who could not or would not speak out before have 535 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: come out of the woodwork. We know the end. We've 536 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: got some idea what happened in the middle. I want 537 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,240 Speaker 1: to know about the beginning. When did the switch flip 538 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: to where the only resolution was to go and kill 539 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: them all? More on that this season. If you haven't 540 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: listened to seasons one and two. Last week's How We 541 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: Got Here Episode we'll catch you up. For more information 542 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: on case photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. 543 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: The Piked and Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, 544 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,720 Speaker 1: Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed 545 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: by Jeff Tis, music by Jared Aston, audio mixing by 546 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: Ken Novak. The Piked and Massacre is a production of 547 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 548 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 549 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.